Thread 96357155

Dreamspeaker Edition

>Previous Thread
>>96338148
>Pastebin
https://pastebin.com/WiCHizn0
>Mediafire
https://mediafire.com/folder/s9esc6u7ke8k5/CofD
>Mega I
https://mega.nz/folder/ePQ1BKhJ#RCosRCh59Ki2Mpb1M9H3Uw
>Mega II (also containing fanmade games)
https://mega.nz/folder/ZbQ2zLJA#DOT-3df6rS2lLet4_RmqJQ
>WoD5 Mega
https://mega.nz/folder/7rQQ1LbQ#16_AiXVGo0P3_rVOJuoZyA
>STV content folders
https://pastebin.com/9i9zhydQ
>General Creation Kit
https://mega.nz/#F!FWJgBTbb!f7d5rARWHYzuI8-8aI-Bxw
>Ideas: BJ Zanzibar's WoD
http://167.99.155.149/
>Anders Mage Page
http://mage.gearsonline.net/anders/
>White Wolf Wiki:
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page

>Thread Question:
Which splat do you know the least about?

>>96357155 (OP)
How can a Kindred befriend a unicorn?

Should I buy this book if I want to begin playing it?

>>96357198
I think the Garou are going to have a fucking problem with that, to put it mildly.

Labruja incels who watch nick fuentes and browse /pol/

>>96357198
By making their own.
>Populate the Night's Garden intensifies

>>96357222
Please put in more effort ESLanon, are you making fun of brujah or are you making a non-sequiter about politics?

Werewolves are always angry in war form right? I’ve never played or read Werewolf. Couldn’t a changeling or a mage throw love and happiness at them or something?

>>96357198
The Tzimisce Elder merely chuckled
>We have unicorns at the haven
>The unicorns at the haven:
Use your imgaination. I can't draw lmao.

>>96357198
Step 1: Be a virgin
Step 2: Be a high humanity Kindred
Step 3: Keep yourself lively
Step 4: Get gutted by the unicorn because they think it's a merciful death for your kind
t.player who tried to do the same thing

>>96357239
my headcanon is that they can be calm but passive aggressive, like pissed off.

>>96357155 (OP)
>Which splat do you know the least about?
I hate to admit it, but Wraith.

>>96357198
>>96357243
Nvm, found a picture of a Tzimisce "unicorn"

What’s the minimum level of Discipline you would need to make a Wolf your bitch as a vampire? Not counting lmao just get celerity and have 5 dex 5 firearms but what’s the minimum level of vampire bullshit you need to pull to just have a good shot at actually dealing with an average wolf?

>>96357490
One being an elder or above. You can capture a "pup" and brainwash them.

>>96357490
If you want an even 1v1 with a woof: Potence 4, Celerity 2, Fortitude 5, and Protean 2 will give you a roughly even fight with a freshly changed ahroun cub.
If you want to fight anything higher in rank, it gets sketchy because there's no "average gift spread", but generally they'll be trying to increase willpower/gnosis/rage to 10, so celerity should be maxed to 5 against a more experienced woof. You could probably simulate it as woofs having anywhere from 3 to 40 dots in thaum equivalents based on rank

>>96357490
This always comes down to a crapshoot because of how wildly different gifts can be from auspice to auspice and tribe to tribe. Assuming you're talking oWoD and not nWoD.

However in very broad strokes your best bets are dominate and presence. There was a dark ages book that actually went into some detail on how disciplines work on werewolves and they don't have much if any inherent resistance to those two. So if you're looking at what is the cheapest thing you can use to btfo a werewolf, dominate and presence.

If you mean an unga bunga fight, first off why that is their strength and your weakness, secondly you need either very padded stats or a goofy gimmick build all about going first and hitting really hard with silver.

or are you just trying to set off angry wta fans

What's the status of gypsy people in OWoD? Besides the Vamp clan ones.

Reminder that werewolves in war form have no dicks. They just don’t!

>>96357641
Is that why they're always angry? I thought it was canon they fuck?

Okay I'm doing day-before prep for a Hunter game and I'm trying to decide what to do for the soundscape. It's my first time doing something outside of more traditional fantasy so I'm not sure which way to go. Between
>soft mood-setting music
and
>immersive setting-specific ambience
Which would be better? If it helps any, I'm running the Vigil 2e quickstart, Killing Time.
>Captcha: STDND

>>96357207
Buy the 20th Anniversary version instead.

>>96357733
I prefer mood-setting music, since imo WoD games inherently support that kind of theatrical approach. However, if your group is more into simulationist ambience, that's fine too. You could even try a combination. Perhaps use the ambience for "mundane" scenes where the supernatural isn't present and have it fade out in favor for mood music as the paranormal creeps in.

>>96357617
According to WoD gypsies(and a little from the vamp toj), they're apparently descendants of lilith and because of that have the innate ability to use some sorcery paths much easier than normal people or gain some frankly broken physical abilities. Them being basically pariahs come from a diluted version of lilith's curse to never be loved by anyone.
>TL;DR: gypsies are to Lilith what vampires are to Caine

>>96357207
No get revised
>>96357757
Anon, that's too much even for a joke.

Out of the many editions of vampire/werewolf/etc, what do you think is a good splat and edition to feature both elder and non-elder combat?

I've heard that some editions struggle when characters have more than five dots, so I'm curious if there are any versions that are particularly good when you want to have Elders in the story, either as bosses or PCs.

>>96358071
>Vampire
Dark Ages Vampire 20th edition is the best edition of vampire mechanically.
>Mage
People keep recommending Revised mage, but it's only good for new STs. Mage 2e is by far the best edition of mage bar none.
>Werewolf
was at it's best mechanically during revised era.
>Changeling
best mechanics are 20th
>Wraith
is weird. 2e is where the line ends, then orpheus takes over, and wraith 20th is actually a weird nerfed wraith/orpheus hybrid closer to a WoD5 game than a CWoD game. Just use Wraith 2e
>Mummy
best mechanics are it's full individual release in revised.
>Sorcerer
best casting mechanics are in revised, but it's missing some rules(book assumes they're in mage, but they aren't), so you need to pull a bit from WoD sorcerer

>>96357239
It's easier for them to get angry from anything that happens, so if they aren't now, they probably will be soon.

>>96357641
Nah, it's all behind a protective sheath. Else, that terrible, terrible Thrall of the Wyrm result wouldn't be possible.

>>96358071
On mechanics alone? Requiem 2e definitely. The core combat rules are way less jank and busted, it only needs a few tweaks to be genuinely engaging I think. Physical disciplines were made more comparable in power without losing their unique identities. Most of the extra oomph vampires get is from Devotions, which anyone can pick up if they meet the prerequisites. It lacks 5+ dots in disciplines, but Elders have several exclusive merits and devotions, still have the ability to get 6+ dots in everything else, and the exp advantage gives them a lot of wiggle room for having powerful and dangerous powers. Whereas it was my experience that VtM elder powers suffered from being either borderline useless for how much exp they cost or busted and not in a fun way, often exacerbated by being far more vague in function than the normal 1-5 dots.

Better bones, more parity in different discipline sets in conflict, and a much wider variety of unique power options makes the high end of vampire conflict more mechanically interesting. You can be an esoteric devotion master or a guy who just has good physical oriented fundamentals and a bunch of good fighting styles to serve as a massive force multiplier.

>>96357239
>Werewolves are always angry in war form right?
Only in forsaken and the forsaken ripoff known as werewolf 5th edition.
WtA classic werewolves have zero issues being in warform all the time and have the full range of emotions. The only issues with the warform are the fact it's obviously supernatural and causes delirium.

AHHH! I'M GOING INSANE!

>>96358259
>Average Metis

>Which splat do you know the least about?
definitely werewolf by far
i don't know a ton about demon either, but I know a fair bit especially because it's so much smaller

>>96357155 (OP)
>Which splat do you know the least about?
changeling or kuei jin i think

just never had a reason to feature either in my games

Updated this! Don't commune with the Wyrm, bros, it's not worth it.

I just noticed something from looking through old mummy 1e/2e books, ancient/shemsu-heru mummies have additional virtues on top of the normal humanity virtues. Is it possible for others on humanity to cultivate additional virtues as well? Can a cainaite cultivate all 5 vampiric virtues rather than choosing 3?

>>96358365
I don't like looking at this, good job

>>96358437
Haha thank you! I feel as though I've begun to capture just how horrific the Wyrm is, if you genuinely are unsettled by it.

Can garou adopt mundane children? I want to roleplay as a Bone Gnawer single mom stripper who found her boy in a dumpster and took him in (then tracked down the bitch who birthed him, mauled her, and made it look like the father sawed her apart).

In case any of you missed it
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OezVqETqvIQ
>October 21, 2025

Playable Clans
>Banu Haqim
>Brujah
>Lasombra (DLC)
>Toreador (DLC)
>Tremere
>Ventrue

>>96358466
Yes. Just keep in mind, non-Kinfolk are not immune to Delirium, so Mommy Dearest should take care not to let her ward see her wolf out.

>Bone Gnawer single mom stripper
Hot.

>>96358466
Technically, yes they CAN. Nothing absolutely prevents it. But it would not be a GOOD childhood strictly speaking. Because unless the child is given to the Kinfolk to be raised, then he's being raised by what is essentially a wolf-monster warrior, not a human mother.
Now if this Garou is SOMEHOW working as a stripper, then likely she is a Ronin. So she lives on the run, and thus has no Kin, leaving the boy to endure not only his mother's Rage boiling beneath the surface as with all Garou, but also the night-horrors that will be targeting her.
Human children are fragile. This sort of life will probably break him.

>>96358468
>Lasombra (DLC)
>Toreador (DLC)
well fuck you too

not you anon. i mean paradox

>>96358466
>Can garou adopt mundane children?
Technically yes. Practically, you're signing up for tragedy, possibly involving You being the one that kills the child because of one ill-timed frenzy roll.
A garou raising a kid is irresponcible to the extreme if they're part of a sept where kinfolk, capable of Not freaking out and throwing a fucking car, can keep the kid much safer.

>>96358444
that you did

>>96358503
Out of curiosity, what is the most unnerving part of the image, to you?

>>96358468
>Buy an entire IP just to make ONE video game
>Have strategy game DLC money
>Almost decade long development
>This is the result
It would be so funny if it wasn’t so sad.

>>96358509
the umbilical chords and the holes in the background

>>96358515
Oh yes, I included those to sort of show how the Three Brothers are connected to, and "birthed" from the Wyrm itself, as well as being "birthed" by each other, and feeding off each other's power.
As for the holes, they aren't just holes, they're eyes.

>>96358521
>they're eyes
I know
I just didn't want to acknowledge it

So, there's a 1 hour playthrough by RadBrad if anybody is interested. I'm kind of a newbie to the setting so I can't say much on that but some quick bullet points so forgive the long post:

1. Phyre is a gay ass name. She got it from a concert poster during the opening parts of the game. Even just making people call her "The Nomad" would have been better.

2. Fabien is a pretty standard seattle noir detective archetype, even comes from the era where that stuff was popular. He's a Malk for anybody wondering.

3. Combat feels kind of floaty, but I think I like it. Might just shit taste, though. A first person vampire brawler where you can just throw people around like ragdolls seems like fun.

I've never actually played the original bloodlines, so I have no idea what kind of sins are being commited here but as a fan of RPGs the roleplaying side feels kind of flat. It comes off like Fallout 4's dialogue system. There even seems to be a sort of telltale inspired "X appreciated this" style to it too.

How about you guys? What do you guys think?

>>96357858
NTA but why is revised better than 20th?

>>96358644
Point three would be the most egregious yet obvious flaw, if what you're saying is true. The original bloodlines is a janky, buggy mess, but it has fantastic writing and voice acting. It's a shame, but it was also to be expected.

>>96357198
Only if they are Kindred pure of heart, mind and soul.
Basically, Golconda only.

how accurate is Wraith: The Oblivion - Afterlife to the setting?

>>96358894
>Access to only one “Arcanoi”
>Not reaped into Stygia
>No Harrowings
>Confined into a single building in the Shadowlands
>Spectres just hanging around because fuck you in particular
Not very accurate.

>>96358931
tbf I can understand being confined to a single house if there is a horde of spectres sitting outside it

They're really trying to recoup any losses, huh?

>>96358998
the fact that they dare to feature a pre order bonus for this game is slaying me

>>96358931
What do you mean, no Harrowings? The entire game is Ed being being harrowed by by a gaggle of spectres along with his shadow.

i don't understand the vitriol for Bloodlines 2
it's 100% not going to be bad. even here on /tg/. what's the fucking issue if it's a little mid? i understand /v/tards who only care about VTMB and not WoD in general, but in a on /wodg/ where some of you are probably like me play the shitty polish visual novels, earthblood, afterlife, swansong how can you complain this much about it?

what do you think is going to happen if you boycott it and it flops? do you think they're going to "learn" from it and do better next time? the series will go into torpor for another 20 years or die a final death since goths will be even more dead by the next time someone has the balls to try to make a 3D game in the setting

>>96359097
so true!!!
in fact everyone in this thread should pre-order the premium edition in order to get the lasombra outfits!!!

>>96358071
Vampire: 2e Requiem, hands down.
Mage: Mage the Awakening, either edition. Only 2e Ascension had elder books (Revised dev hated the idea of letting players achieve anything), and even then the freebies and ensuing high Arete are the only real benefit.
Werewolf: the Revised.
Changeling: 2e for normal changelings and Dark Age Fae for elder-type characters, there's no overlap.
Wraith: 2e.
Mummy: there's no whelp mummy, all of them are kinda elders. I prefer 2e, but Revised is serviceable.
Hunter: Demon Hunter X with ToJ chi rules.

>>96359153
i only played VTMB 1.7 times. my original playthrough ended because i played it unpatched and got softlocked and didn't want to restart so i finished it 5 years later. the lategame sections were terrible anyway.

i have no desire to replay the game, you can complete every single substory in the game in one run and that's what i did. you're an idiot if you buy the DLC clans, you're an idiot if you want to replay any game really.

do you really, i mean REALLY want to watch the sewer loading screen and run through the copypasted sewer tunnels back and forth to do every god damned fetch quest so you'd feel like a real nosferatu? that's retarded.

>>96358776
Well, for one thing, the Swords of Heimdall are all dead, and it didn't pile on extra layers of doom and gloom. On the other hand, W20 had spots like the Eighth Sign of the Phoenix and has some much more mechanically clean Gifts, so you might find that you'd like to average them together to some extent.

>>96359097
it's mid but phyre is such a retarded and obnoxious character that it sure as shit isn't gonna feel mid playing it. same issue as forspoken basically.
also if your best argument for supporting a game is "think of the brand" kindly fuck off, you've become way to comfortable with the corporate boot on your neck

>>96359153
That's right, vamily!
And don't forget to buy the exclusive "Santa Monica memories" DLC! It comes with the classic Ankaran sarcophagus and the Stop Sign!

>>96357490
I buckbroke the furries in my chronicle with like 3 Archery and a ghouled celerity horse. Bitches can't do shit about a kite build, especially if you weren't retarded and maxed your WP on chargen.

Which of the games, visual novels & interactive novels are worth checking out on Steam?

>>96359401
Parliament of knives, Nightroad, Book of Hungry names.

>>96359468
Sell me on Parliament of Knives.

>>96358365
What the fuck is that freak walking on all fours?

>>96359477
T'is a featherless biped

>>96357490
Dominate is risky, woofs can get a merit which makes them completely immune.
Presence however? Go right ahead. Nice muscles idiot now love me like you love Gaia and kill all of your friends as a thrall to the wyrm.

>>96359476
Was this any good? Kinda came and went

>>96359499
If it were released in 2008 maybe, honestly it's just kind of mid.

>>96359499
ass to mediocre on a good day tier

>>96359476
Decent investigative game with politics. You can play quite a few times before it gets boring/same-y. Quite a few nice surprises, iirc.
Unlike Night road, there's no mary sue ass mite.

>>96359499
>earth blood
It's shit.

Thanks friends, I'll check out
>Night Roads
>Shadows of New York
>Heart of the Forest
And maybe Bloodline at some point

I wanna play tabletop WoD too, but the only group I've ever managed to snag & like only wants 5.5e

I want a good wod game!
>monkey paw curls
It's a porn game.

>>96359499
No, it's basically a mediocre brawler from a decade ago. With some stealth mechanics thrown in with wolf form and half baked human form dialogue that doesn't amount to much. Story also got neutered compared to the way early footage and dev talked about it because Paradox was probably afraid to have their game protagonist be an actual ecoterrorist.
The VNs get away with that shit because those have less eyes on them, both from the inside and outside.
Had potential as a game if more thought was put into the game's design and the way different forms could interplay.

>>96359523
Sounds great. I only play games to get off.

>>96359480
Are you sure?

>>96359547
>Feed me
"Good."
>Shits iself
basedf

>>96359523
Some of those "romance" vampire games from vampirejam weren't all bad. I see lots of potential.

>>96359547
>Be wizard
>Could go back in time to fix everything
>Will instead go back in time to tell the ancient Greeks (who have never seen a monkey before) that human beings are just hairless monkeys (Bring a drawing of one)
>Get thrown out of the building
>Totally worth the month's worth of paradox

>>96359472
Is the widdle bad wolf having flashbacks to the days of latter impergium?

>>96359642
No.
I'm one of the guys who spend xp on shiny merits instead of wp.

>>96359644
I earned mine in-game by not being a wimp

>>96359163
Smooth-brained take

>>96359097
I think it would be worse if it succeeds, Paradox would see it as a vindication for 5th edition, and they would double down on it.

>>96358998
>>96359039
>>96359097
>day 1 DLC
>go through 2 studios after one was unironically so full of faggot commies they had to shut them down
>fire Mitsoda (though arguably he was being a weirdo)
>go from a vast range of dialogue options to [HATE NEWSPAPERS] in an RPG known for its dialogue
>no nossies, gangrel, and malk when nossie and malk are some of the most memorable playthroughs of the OG
>no H20 and V5 W5 and H5 are different ranges of shit
And that's without getting into the whole Phyre diablerized Johnny Silver hand shit. I personally don't mind delays to avoid another Cyberpunk launch day situation but fuck man.

>>96358998
>>96359039
>pre order bonus
i preordered that game in like 2019? or something like that and got the pre order refunded by paradox when they killed the studio (i honestly forgot that i preordered it before i got the refund...) so in what world would i preorder it again? and with the game costing more money than before even too

>>96359858
>though arguably he was being a weirdo
Fucking bullshit.

>>96359644
You can spend XP on merits?

>>96358998
>had access to rik schaffer
>don't use him for the game's actual soundtrack
>but take his original bloodlines music as a pre-order bonus nostalgia bait

I want to take a rock hammer to the kneecaps of whoever did that.

>>96359522
V5 isn’t that bad.
Truthfully, there’s never been a VtM system that’s actually good.

>>96360177
retard they are using his new tracks for the actual soundtrack it's just the old soundtrack from VTMB which is all things considered a completely inconsequential preorder bonus. did you watch a single video about the game?

>>96360214
>5 (five) Paradoxbux have been deposited in your account.

>>96359097
>the series will go into torpor for another 20 years or die a final death

You say that like it's a bad thing. I'd rather it be dead than have Paradox continue to bastardize it. Thank god the response has been so tepid that all these years later they've still only done three splats. Vampire wears the thinnest veneer of still being vtm, but the other two? Entirely different games, which wouldn't even be that bad if they weren't pretending to be the originals and their existence actively stifles the creation of more stuff for the originals. For example, I don't like Werewolf the Apocalypse, but the WtA players don't deserve to have their gameline shut down like that. Hell, both oWoD and nWoD were killed so they couldn't compete with WoD5. As far as I'm concerned, the parts of the IP I like are already dead.

But tabletop games are ultimately a community driven creative venture. Official books are nice but most of the actual work put into running a game happens at the table level. I can still play old, "dead" games. Cyberpunk 2020, any older D&D edition, the West End Games Star Wars system. All of these are perfectly playable and I've played some of them myself. So if the IP is no longer being abused by a bunch of corpo snow apes who use their IP control to actively stifle creativity and split the fanbase further, I consider that an absolute win.

Also I love the original bloodlines warts and all and consider this non-sequel to be an insult to it. I'd still hope for WoD5's downfall but I would care less if this game called itself something different, because it is not a sequel to bloodlines.

>>96358998
We have seen the concept art for most outfits they all look ass.
Hell the protagonist looks ass and it is based on 5e right?
Not to mention it was made by a company that makes walking simulators.
This game is going to be ass.

>>96360219
I’ve been out of Vampire for over a decade now but I’m trying to get my group into it.

What is wrong with Paradox? I like Crusader Kings. Are they simply not equipped to handle the World of Darkness IP?

Heads up guys, /v/ has been dealing with a hardcore, deranged shill for Bloodlines 2 for actual years now. Showed up around the time they announced they were giving it to Chinese Room. Unclear if he does it for free or not. Based on some of the posts they might be here, engage if you want but understand you're not dealing with someone talking in good faith.

>>96358365
When a man has nothing to lose anymore, what reason does he have to refuse the offer?

>>96360293
I’m not shilling for anyone, I’m asking a legitimate question. Like I said, I’ve been out of the loop and just want a QRD. For fucks sake.

>>96360305
Why would you think I was talking about you?

>>96360281
>Are they simply not equipped to handle the World of Darkness IP?
Brother, I envy the rock you've been living under.

>>96360281
>What is wrong with Paradox?
Let me count the ways...
>purposefully sabotaging and scuttling NWoD
>doing the same with the old one for the sake of pushing their WoD5 faggot garbage on the fanbase
>dooming Bloodlines 2 with their retarded marketing decisions, diversity hires and cartoonish penny pinching
>shafting every old head in the development of Bloodlines 2
>being downright semitic with their DLC and preorder bonus peddling (this extends to every game by them, not just Bloodlines 2)
This is just scratching the surface.

>>96360328
>Why would you think I was talking about you?
Because I’ve been on 4chan long enough to understand posters’ behavior.

>>96360372
Thanks. Is this mostly related to the video game? What do you mean killeing oWoD? It’s not like the old books stopped working.

>>96360387
You've been on 4chan long enough to develop a persecution complex. It was in regards to the dozen or so shill posts earlier in the thread. I ain't giving them all a (you).

Do you think that the inconsistencies within and across the game lines have led to the staying power of the World of Darkness?

>>96360387
>Thanks. Is this mostly related to the video game? What do you mean killeing oWoD? It’s not like the old books stopped working.
Nta but they stopped greenlighting new 20th Edition books the moment Paradox started V5. Including Hunter 20th Edition, which was in the works when Paradox axed it.

Everyone ready for the inevitable crowbcat video on Bloodlines release?

>>96360632
Yeah, it is one of the reasons people talk about the thing.

>>96360666
based number

and yes

>>96360632
>Do you think that the inconsistencies within and across the game lines have led to the staying power of the World of Darkness?
No, I think it’s because it gives players a feel that other popular games do not.

>>96360666
Earthbound Demon in the thread :O

>>96360632
That's kind of conflating correlation with causation.
The inconsistencies come from different splats having different themes and ideas behind it with writers generally caring less about keeping the details consistent if it serves to enhance those themes and ideas, which is definitely part of WoD's staying power, but saying it has staying power BECAUSE of that inconsistency I would not say is correct.
Just because lore nerds obsessively discuss over those details now doesn't mean it's part of the staying power, said lore nerds got on board somehow, and that which hooked them isn't usually 'hey, look how inconsistent the setting of this game I'm playing is, isn't that cool?'.

>>96360632
>within
possibly, because a charitable mind can see that as intentional mystery.
>across game lines
probably not. most people don't think hard enough about it or go deep enough in play to get into the glaring inconsistencies.

I'd also argue WoD didn't actually have staying power. It faded away and got revived due to a new generation being introduced to it via the internet.

>>96360697
>I'd also argue WoD didn't actually have staying power. It faded away and got revived due to a new generation being introduced to it via the internet.
If it didn’t have staying power, it wouldn’t exist. The ability to reinvent itself suggests that the essence of the system is solid.
Sure, the grimy feel of the early to mid 90s may be gone, but you can take the zero-sum cynicism, meanness, and paranoia of today and the setting works equally well, maybe even better.

When I first played VtM, it was in the Marines in the early GWOT era. Mostly, it was an expression of angry nonconformity back then.

>>96360748
>GWOT Marines playing VtM

Now that's a mental image.

>>96360769
>Now that's a mental image.
It’s more common than you think and not just among pogs. These guys do want to be able to express themselves and in the relative isolation from pop culture, end up telling their own stories.

You’d be surprised how quickly some giant, stereotypical, super-moto killer could go from
>faggot shit!
to
>nah, bro, that’s not how Dominate works, simple commands only, you gotta use Presence

>>96360690
They could be any one of us...

>>96360095
Yep. Merits cost the same as a background where bg dots = freebie cost of merit. Difference is you have to buy the entire merit all at once rather than one dot at a time like backgrounds.

>>96360648
>stopped greenlighting new 20th Edition books the moment Paradox started V5
Boy howdy are they gonna regret That when it becomes so obvious that WoD5 is a financial mistake that even the shareholders notice.

>>96360837
>that’s not how Dominate works
relatable

>>96358365
A really beautiful work as always, anon!

>>96361078
There was a YouTube series a few years ago done BY WHITE WOLF where they kept fucking this up.
They don’t even know the rules of their own fucking game.
It’s been five editions and, forget about game balance, they haven’t even figured out how to write a coherent rulebook.

>>96359477
It's a sort of symbolic representation of the archetypal Wyrm-worshipper. It represents what it reduces men to, making them into something less, and worse, than a beast.
Because, to me, no one can come into contact with the Wyrm and come away unscathed. And no one can worship the Wyrm and come back the same.

The most painful thing about old world of darkness is knowing how popular it would be if only competent people were allowed to run it.
Every theme in classic wod rings even more true today than it did in the 90's. Everything is gay corpo slop, conspiracy theories are being proven true so often schizos can't make new ones fast enough, the economy/politics/etc have gone so shit that the average person is crushed by the weight of poverty and the incompetence of bureaucracy, all our food is full of so many chemicals that the plastic it's wrapped in tastes better and is probably healthier, etc.
It wouldn't take much at all to get a new generation into the setting, but parawolf is too retarded not to kill the golden goose.

>>96360303
But that's the thing about the Wyrm, you ALWAYS have something to lose. Until it has you in it's iron, reeking grip, you always have something more to give up. Only when it's drained you of everything you're worth, and replaced it all with rotten bile and oozing pus and the self-same bottomless hunger as the Wyrm itself has, only THEN will you really have nothing left to lose.

>>96361223
>Because, to me, no one can come into contact with the Wyrm and come away unscathed.
Occasionally people actually come back better. The wyrm is all about destruction, but sometimes you need to destroy the parts of yourself holding you back.
It's easy to forget, but for every bad thing about the wyrm it doesn't change the fact that it's both natural and necessary.

>>96361188
no way
do you have a link? I wanna see that

>>96361244
>Occasionally people actually come back better.
I don't agree. The Hydra doesn't make anything better, really. And the Three Brothers KNOW this. They deliberately do it, unlike the "true" Wyrm which does it mindlessly.
>you need to destroy the parts of yourself holding you back.
Well, yes, YOU need to do that. But if you let the Wyrm, and in mortal terms you're gonna be dealing with Banes, do it then it WILL devour you. It will turn you inside out and make you into its own image. Oh yes, you'll no longer be held back. You'll be free to defile and destroy and violate and consume everything you ever cared about and then finally, even yourself.

>>96361264
I think it was called New York By Night or something like that.

>>96361277
thanks, I can search for it with that

>>96361230
>>96360748
Exactly. This world fits absolutely perfectly with the VtM aesthetic.

Then again, fuck it, you can always homebrew your own. No one can stop you.

>>96361272
>I don't agree. The Hydra doesn't make anything better, really.
There's hints dropped by the game that all Fera are wyrm creatures. Fomori are the only possessed type capable of true-breeding, are the only possessed type that can have custom multi-forms the way fera do, and the only faction that has successfully created new fera in the modern day is pentex.
This isn't new lore either, it's been around since at least 2e.

There’s no way the WoD isn’t some sort of simulation. The archmage book even puts forth this possibility. It’s way, waaay to beep-boop-beep, or clear cut. Splats are all clustered into neat little packages. An engineer would absolutely see that it’s all artificially implemented.

>>96357155 (OP)
>TQ

I'm gonna be honest and say Wraith. I looked at it several times but doesn't attract me that much. I liked a lot the concepts of the CofD Promethean and Wraith

>>96358491
So is basically Hulk rules? Just try to not get stressed so to not transform? I don't much of WtA

>>96361394
Or, hear me out, what if the Kun ain't dindu muffin? Most of its hardcore followers are worse than Pentex, cause Pentex at least feigns civility, and they are full-on genocidal murderhobos.

>>96361482
>Another Virtual Adept awakens, unaware that the universe treats his paradigm like a bad joke.

Here's a funny idle thinking exercise for the Vampire crowd: if you were to port the Strix into OWoD, where would you slot them in the great order of things and how would the various vampire factions relate to them?

>>96361525
Or load up on the Rage-suppressing gifts, and/or pick a totem that flat out prevents aggressive frenzy.

>>96361525
>So is basically Hulk rules?
Nope, hulk has it easy. There's no getting around it anon, people are hunting you and you will frenzy at some point. It's not IF, it's WHEN, and you don't get to choose the WHEN.

>>96361549
>prevents aggressive frenzy.
/fox frenzy also turns you into a murder machine, just one that kills anything in the way of your escape.

>>96361559
In fox frenzy you only attack real threats, and even then only to get through them and keep running.

>>96361482
All games, tabletop or no, are essentially simulations. They would never evolve the way they are portrayed.

In a world of hard materialism we can deconstruct and reconstruct everything into its essential essences. All fiction will break down, no matter how careful.

There isn’t a single case or example of a foolproof fiction. It’s all a dream.

>>96361551
>It's not IF, it's WHEN, and you don't get to choose the WHEN.
Damn, being a Garou sounds like a all-round bad deal then. I know that Hunters have it bad because just regular humans with only their wits and guns (In respects to Vigil and H5) but Werewolfs are just sad because nobody wants to leave them alone.

when you reach humanity 3

a week before you turn into a wright

>>96361589
One of my ex-sorcerer got saddled Humanity 2 on embrace and still staved off wighthood long enough to methodically annihilate the Beast through self-torture and psychic self-combat rituals.

>>96361583
>Damn, being a Garou sounds like an all-round bad deal then.
Welcome to World of Darkness, where everything sucks for everyone.

>>96357617
>What's the status of gypsy people in OWoD?
For the most part they are painted as one of the ethnicities with the most contact with the supernatural. I'm still trying to figure out why they can make 5 thrown attacks/turn if they are autistic enough, though.

Why is it so hard to recreate the other changing breeds?

>>96361791
It’s not hard, but the developers are probably loath to add anything that attracts even more furries to the setting

>>96361765
except for mummies! that's why nobody plays them

>>96361833
>except for mummies! that's why nobody plays them
Mummies are neat and all but they are niche as hell.

>>96361856
i know i was trying to make a joke because nobody will ever let me play them

>>96361833
>that's why nobody plays them
Nobody plays them because being a mummy requires you be a genuinely good person. The average WoD player struggles to keep a humanity of 5.

>>96361791
It isn't really. It takes max alchemy, but a sorcerer can pretty much revive any and all of the extinct change breeds.
I suspect using alchemy to permanently copy fomori traits is how pentex created the mockery breeds.

>>96361811
>the developers are probably loath to
Counterpoint: Brucado
The writers love adding furshit to the game, but they hate giving players agency or letting anything make the garou look good at all.

>>96361544
They're made of shadows, and one of their powers involves opening a gate to their shadow world, so I'd say they'd have something to do with the Lasombra Abyss.

>>96361394
This a very stupid take. We already have examples of Wyrmish Fera, and they are a far cry from their uncorrupted counterparts.
As for the Mockery Breeds, there's a reason why they're called MOCKERIES. They aren't really Fera. Even spirits won't generally traffic with them. And Pentex didn't make them whole cloth. They use captured Fera as genetic material to "build" a Mockery Breed via corruptive science.
And fomori don't actually "true breed", because every fomori-born baby has to eventually be paired with a Bane to TRULY become a fomor.
Being Wyrmish isn't a matter of opinion, it's as obviously true as color and sound. To be tainted by the Wyrm is to take on its features, to become more like it. If all Fera were Wyrmish, then they would all be like the Wyrm.
But they obviously aren't.
Stop trying to "rehabilitate" the Wyrm, or make it "morally grey". Just enjoy the Wyrm for what it is: the absolute worst.

>>96361925
That would be a reasonable in-game guess, but that requires the writers to compare notes, making it completely unrealistic.

>>96362056
>Stop trying to "rehabilitate" the Wyrm
>Literally how you get the "saved gaia" good ending in WtA

>>96362056
>And fomori don't actually "true breed", because every fomori-born baby has to eventually be paired with a Bane to TRULY become a fomor.
Anon, there's literally a fomori exclusive pwer that allows the fomor to make an exact copy of its bane and merge it with it's sexual fluids. Fomori can literally make other fomori at conception and "Breed True". They're also the only possessed species that can do this.

>>96362090
You're being mornonically literal. I'm talking about the Wyrm as a character and a plot device. Just because one OPTIONAL end times scenario lets you "le save le Wyrm" doesn't change that for pretty much any given Story, the Wyrm is a force of bottomless corruption and an eternal desire to corrupt and violate life itself.

>>96362056
>Anon posts an entire novel only for it to be entirely headcanon and cope.

>>96362104
Just because theres an OPTIONAL power doesnt mean that its an inherent trait of all fomori or even COMMON.
The fact is that fomori and Fera are fundamentally different. A Fera simply is a Fera. A fomori, even a FERECTOI (the Bane Children) born as a fomori, are still only corruption of humans or whatever life form is infested. That is the fundamental nature of a fomor.

>>96361589
I actually enjoy the stress of playing a high humanity character.
I enjoy the whole risk-management aspect of v5 (I know, I know, that’s just what my group plays)
Being paranoid about everything makes more interesting than being an elder-terminator.

>>96362115
Seethe, cope, dilate, mald, whatever. The Wyrm is the Bad Guy, and that's just a fact. If you want to run the Wyrm as being "le frraking actually....le good?" in your game, by all means, go ahead. But the Wyrm is not secretly moral, nor are the Fera all Wyrmish.
Why you have an issue with evil simply being evil, I don't know.

>>96362126
>strawman
At what point did anon say that every fomori breeds true and/or is a proto-fera waiting to happen?

>>96362135
>Why you have an issue with evil simply being evil, I don't know.
Been reading too much sigma male grifting shit.
>I want to stand apart and not have the rules apply to me but also not be completely alone.

>>96362135
>Seethe, cope, dilate, mald, whatever.
But enough about you.

>>96357155 (OP)
Is it a good idea to limit new players to the easier-to-play clans?
The last thing I want is to have everyone’s experience spoiled by a newbie Malkavian being a cartoon or the Joker.

>>96361773
>I'm still trying to figure out why they can make 5 thrown attacks/turn if they are autistic enough, though.
It's because they're related to lilith. Have you never seen how fast an angry woman can throw dishes or sandles at someon? Now increase that to the level of one of the most powerful supernatural creatures in cwod.

>Tfw it's obvious the implication that the fera are almost all wyrm aligned as their work is the same as his to keep balance.
What did you niggas think rage and gnosis represent?
They are mini wyrms.

>>96362174
>Is it a good idea to limit new players to the easier-to-play clans?
It is a reasonable limit.

>>96361394
>All Fera

Just a gentle reminder, Fera is the Garou word for all changers who aren't Garou.

>Fomori are the only possessed type capable of true-breeding

Not really. "Fomori breed" is less about a stable lineage and more about a general type that comes about when banes of a type possess a host. Do note that fomori families don't produce fomori just by having kids; they have to "bless them" with the "gift", which can be anything from taking a trip to a local polluted cesspit to incest rape, if the fomor type has the "bodily fluids contain banes" power.

>only possesed type that can have custom multi-forms the way CHANGERS do

Changers don't have custom multi-forms. Those who do have a custom form have a drastically different method of achieving it than anything established for fomori or other possessed (keep in mind that gorgons are capable of having a lot of the same physical powers that fomori can get)

>the only faction that has successfuly created new fera in the modern day is pentex

I wouldn't call the mockery breeds a success, exactly. Also, they're drastically different from fomori, most notably in that mechanically, they don't have Autonomy to worry over and could potentially tell the corrupt spirits to screw themselves and walk away from it all. Those tend to die in short order, but they can do it.

(Mechanically, they are also nothing like possessed but very much like the alternate changers under the rules given in Forsaken's War Against the Pure.)

>>96362090
Well, one very direct long shot to get a good ending. If you know some Gurahl and kept them alive.

Keep in mind that the other scenarios in the book have victory possibilities too. Yes, even The Last Battleground.

I'd like to see something like the World Of Darkness done with critters. It would be hilarious to see a gothic-punk take on this genre.

Vampires: bats (maybe bloodsucking insects for Tzmisce and Nosferatu)
Werewolf: wolves (duh)
Mage: All sorts of birds
Changeling: large variety of colorful insects like butterflies, ladybugs, fireflies...
Hunter: domestic dogs and cats

No idea of which animals to use for wraiths, demons and mummies, though

>>96362254
The Angst Parade ruins everything.

The Tremere just seem better in every possible, conceivable way.

>>96362455
>pyramid scheme
>better

>>96362455
Yeah, they're the best at licking Brujah taint.

>>96361987
So the Lasombra would be the closest to them, probably even their ambassadors so to speak. What about the rest of the Sabbat? I think they'd have some influence with the Tzimisce, what with the Path of Metamorphosis inevitably "optimizing" the vampire at the cost of drifting away from Humanity.

>>96362455
Oddly enough, I have been playing VTM for over 20 years and I have never played a Tremere or even played in a game with a Tremere.
I think no one wants to deal with Blood Sorcery.

>>96362364
>Not really. "Fomori breed" is less
Let be stop you right there, that isn't what they mean. There's a specific power that only fomori can take that lets them breed true.
>Changers don't have custom multi-forms.
Anon, he's talking about the multiple in-between form states. Kami can't do that.
>I wouldn't call the mockery breeds a success, exactly.
Kerasi are an unironic full success capable of breeding true with both humans and wild rhinos.
>Also, they're drastically different from fomori
So are all changers. I believe anon was more concerned about how pentex is the one and only faction to have any successes, while also being a faction devoted 99% bane possession research.

>>96362522
>Kerasi are an unironic full success capable of breeding true with both humans and wild rhinos.
kerasi only breed true with animals and each other. They're only 2/3rds of the way there.

>>96362478
Every other clan is trying to kill its own members nonstop, the Tremere get a supportive family that shares resources, protects each other, and fosters a community of safety and magical learning. Not such a bad deal. What do Brujah get, a broken bottle over the head?

>>96362600
>What do Brujah get
They get "We Waz Kangz" drilled into them.

>>96362600
They get being actual vampies and not wannabes.

>>96359858
lol, you totally are required to sign, they will take you to jail if you don't. At least in California.

>>96362600
beats me, brujah are a pack of whining adolescents but at least they aren't locked into a human centipede of ass-kissing at embrace

>>96359858
Wait, why not Gangrel?

>>96359858
>Phyre
Still can't believe this is real

>>96362455
Obviously true.

>>96359858
>though arguably he was being a weirdo
Genuinely not. They fired him over allegations in a court case that then got proven false when he won. Studio had egg on its face and tried to burn down his reputation as a smokescreen afterward.

>>96362629
>actual vampires
>brujah

>>96362390
Make the wolves shitzus if you want the setting to be in any way balanced
>wraiths
Chameleons
>Demons
Wasps
>Mummies
Kitty cats

>>96362838
the Avellone

>>96362455
Assamites do it better

>>96362522
>There's a specific power

Not by any name, from what I can tell. Not in Possessed, not in Freak Legion, not even in W20 Book of the Wyrm. What that last one does detail are extremely nebulous fomori families, which are different from the presentation in Possessed, mostly.

This and the Mockery Breeds are more of a result of metatextual goals than something having an established, in-setting reason. They're there to be less than completely quantified and keep the players on their toes or scare them. Breaking established rules was just part of that. If the game were centered around a different member of the Triat being a prime threat in a different setting, that one would be breaking the rules instead.

>multiple in-between states. Kami can't do that.

Apparently fomori don't have it as a described choice, either. It's an arbitrary thing that may or may not count.

>>96362867
>Chameleons
Explain.

>>96363009
They can turn invisible.
I don't know anything about wraiths, so I'm just assuming they're ghosts.

>>96362897
>not in Freak Legion
Check again anon, it's called "Procreate"

>>96363015
>They can turn invisible.
No
>I don't know anything about wraiths
Clearly

What's the point of being a good person in WoD? I don't think you can go to heaven.

>>96357490
Strength 4, Brawl 4, Touch of Oblivion

You can have all these + a specialization for bite attacks at character creation. You deal 4 Aggravated Damage per round and your attack inflicts a -3 malus to their rolls.

If your first attack hits, it's over for the wolf.
Make it a sneak attack by also grabbing shadow cloak (not cloak of shadows) so your first attack is against difficulty 1.

If you have a nice ST, a sneak attack touch of oblivion could also instantly kill the wolf (e.g. you use it on its head)

Pick Lamia as your bloodline, so you have toughness / oblivion / potence as your disciplines

>>96363116
You can, but even so being good is its own reward.

>>96363040
NTA, but I couldn't find it

>>96363116
good optics

>>96363040
That's a side to side transmission instead of the generational one. I made mention of it in >>96362364 as the "bodily fluids contain banes" power. It's rare that it makes fomori from birth, hence the need for "reintroduction" at a later date.

So, not really even remotely how Garou and Fera work, else the world would be drowning in them.

>>96363116
You have something that you value. It's the reason for everything. Preserve it for as long as you can, care for it, and you might be able to see it through while you're alive. Sometimes, it's all you can do.

>>96363116
>What's the point of being a good person in WoD?
Because it benefits you, even if very indirectly. Being a reasonable and moral human being tends to leave people out of the shit list of random supernaturals.

>>96363141
I don't know why whenever someone says "the Wyrm/the Hydra is evil" immediately you get a number of people coming out of the woodwork to say "no, the Wyrm is actually good" and "actually, the Garou/all Fera are actually Wyrmish".
Is it autism?

>>96363116
Because if you are not good I will murder you.

>>96363116
there is no point. trying to be good is playing the game wrong and boring

>>96363116
What's the point of being a good person irl? Same reasons apply in WoD.

>>96363166
Because the changing breeds are wyrmish they inherited the job to keep balance from him.
Their rage the thing that motivates them to fight for justice is literally the wyrm in their hearts tempered by gnosis the wisdom to know when to destroy.

>>96363116
If your a mummy of have TF, being a good person literally gives you superpowers.

>>96362897
>Apparently fomori don't have it as a described choice, either.
I believe in freaks legion fomori get a "Build your own alternate forms" power that n one else gets. It's the only thing analogous to shifters having "in-between" forms since build cost is cheaper if all forms are similar. Other possessed either get straight animal forms or the standard fomori stereotype of "giant mutant monster" if gorgon(which is hilarious irony).

>>96363184
>the Wyrm is when balance
I blame WW for this confusion, when they used the term "Balance Wyrm" to describe the Wyrm BEFORE it was corrupted. The Triat was the balance. Not the Wyrm itself. The Wyrm was the Destroyer, but the Garou (which you're confusing for ALL Fera) were created specifically to fight the corruption of the Wyrm.
>Rage is Wyrmish
No, it's not. THRALL of the Wyrm is explicitly Wyrmish. And that's completely different from Rage.
Again, want to see what Wyrmish Garou look like? Look at the Black Spiral Dancers. That's what the Wyrm does to Garou.
Now if all Garou were Wyrmish, and all Fera were Wyrmish, then they would A) be fighting FOR the Wyrm and B) they would all stink of the Wyrm to each other.

Seriously, is this just autistic contrarianism, this push to try and frame WtA as just the Wyrm using 8D checkers sock puppet accounts against itself? Is it a fear of black and white morality? Or is it because some players want to LARP as Wyrmish, but don't want to actually BE bad people.

>>96363166
>Is it autism?
Yes, but like many autistic fixations, there is a point. In this case, the fact that WW wants to paint a nuanced picture but most people don't see it.

Is it possible to have fun with WTA if I really don't give a shit about the tree-hugging stuff? I really don't give a fuck about it, but it seems like there are lots of good mechanics and concepts related to being a werewolf besides that, would that part of it end up ultimately spoiling the experience for me?

>>96363210
I'm sorry but why does "nuanced" always seem to equate (in the context of hte Wyrm) with people saying "errrmmm actually the Wyrm is good and being Wyrmish and worshipping the Wyrm is good" when the sourcebooks clearly show, including ones like Freak Legion, that the Wyrm is a force of cosmic madness and corruption, and that at all levels it delights in making everyone share its madness? Becoming a fomor is never, ever good for anyone, unless you are already a degenerate monster.

>>96363209
>The Triat was the balance. Not the Wyrm itself.
The wyrm's literal job description was maintaining the balance between weaver and wyld. That's why it's called the "balance wyrm". The corrupted triatic wyrm and balance wyrm are also two different entities. The triatic hydra is a set of spirits created from the wyrm's attempts to escape the weaver's web and have the old wyrm's authority, but they aren't the old wyrm itself.

>>96363116
I mean, that's a pretty weird take.

>>96363237
>and being Wyrmish and worshipping the Wyrm is good
anon, if you want to strawman, at least make it believable. No one in this thread ever said becoming a nature-satan worshipper was good.

>>96363238
No, the purpose of the Wyrm was to destroy and devour everything that was "past its time". If any part of the Triat "broke" then imbalance would occur, including within the Wyrm.
I agree that the old Wyrm is gone, though. Yes the Corruptor and Destroyer are quite different.

>>96363228
You can have fun playing a domestic terrorist but that depends on the rest of the group. You do have a group, right?
Also if just want decent mechanics for werewolf just play forsaken for fuck sake.

>>96363245
At least one anon ITT has literally said that worshipping the Wyrm helps to free you, albeit I'm paraphrasing.

>>96363228
>Is it possible to have fun with WTA if I really don't give a shit about the tree-hugging stuff?
Absolutely. Play one of the weaver factions or the less in-the-know wyrm factions(unless you want to play cartoonish evil like a 40k ork, that's also fun).

>>96363250
>I agree that the old Wyrm is gone, though.
Not what I said and also objectively wrong. The old wyrm is literally still trapped in the pattern web.

>>96363265
No, the trapped Wyrm IS the Corruptor, and has been for a long long time

>>96363259
Who and where?
If it's this: >>96361244
Then fuck right off. I wrote that and I sure as hell wasn't saying worshipping the wyrm was good. I was saying you can come out with a profit like any other form of infernalism.

>>96363271
Literally proven wrong by multiple sourcebooks anon. The easiest place to see it is the Toj werewolf books, where they spell it out as clearly as possible in multiple scenarios that this isn't true.

>>96363277
That's literally what you're saying here. Trafficking with the Wyrm and being chummy with its servants and emissaries is good, that's exactly what you said.
What I said in response is that you come away with power, yes. But its power to destroy, defile, and devour. You come away as a servant of the Three Brothers. That's your profit. You don't come away as a better person.

>>96363271
>Anon outs that he didn't actually read the books
Whelp, this thread is over. Dumbass shot his own side in the foot.

>>96363252
One of my friends offered me to play, and what they offered was Apocalypse unfortunately, forsaken isn't really a choice

>>96363285
The only thing that's ever been IMPLIED is that the Destroy is trapped somewhere INSIDE the Corruptor. And that's even explicitly used to bait clueless Garou to try and enter the Labyrinth ot find it.
The children of the Wyrm delight in that exact kind of manipulation. "Oh yeah everyone else who has come to the Wyrm has ended up a slave, but not you. YOU can totally use the Wyrm to your own ends with no problem!"

>>96363290
Find me a quote that says that the Wyrm trapped in the Web is uncorrupted and pure and just waiting to be freed to go back to work.

>>96363288
>Trafficking with the Wyrm and being chummy with its servants and emissaries is good, that's exactly what you said.
L reading comprehension.
Ever heard of "Necessary Evil" anon? Viruses and Parasites are necessary to keep animal populations regulated and provide horrisontal gene transfer that accelerates evolution, doesn't mean they aren't disgusting, evil ,and generally something humanity is better off without after separating ourselves from nature.
Necessary=/=Good. If you don't understand that, I can only hope you're a teenager rather than a mentally impaired adult.

>>96363303
Anon literally directed you to one: >>96363285

>>96363299
>And that's even explicitly used to bait clueless Garou to try and enter the Labyrinth ot find it.
So you didn't actually read the book did you?
Fucking anon is right. This thread is over. Fuck You for letting the "Le Wyrm is Good Akshually" autists win

>>96363294
In that case, just play a basic character and see where it leads you. WtA can be fun but I really don't vibe some of old WoD core rules.
My recomendation would be something along the lines of a Homid Fianna because their stuff is so basic you can go anywhere.

>>96363308
>"You don't get it, I HAD to skin those babies alive and drink raw radioactive sewage so that I could uhhhhh ummmmmm get more freer? That makes me more gooder right?"
That's you right now. Even the Black Spirals sometimes pretend like they're "necessary" or "just trying to return balance to the world" but guess what? They aren't.
It's not my fault you think that your character is the one exception in the entire cosmos to the rule that the Wyrm corrupts everything it touches.
>>96363316
>he directed me to a quote
No he didn't dummy. He just said "a bunch of books agree with me" despite not saying what the fuck he's talking about IN those books.
Because as far as I'm aware, NO book claims that the Wyrm being let out as it is right now is going to save the world.
>>96363321
The Black Spiral Labyrinth leads directly to the Wyrm. You tell me what "reward" you get for being directly in its undiluted presence.

>>96363340
>You tell me what "reward" you get for being directly in its undiluted presence.
The toj good ending where the balance wyrm is freed, the weaver's madness is ended by the roar of the wyrm, and the triat is balanced forever.

>>96363303
He literally does just that in the toj.
He even rizzes the weaver and she apologizes to him.

>>96363209
My nigga rage is literally the impulse to destroy that's the wyrm it destroys to keep the wyld and weaver in balance with each other.
The problem is that he is prevented from doing his job correctly and only his mad shadow can act to corrupt instead.
Thrall of the wyrm is literal addition that rage is wyrmish if you lose all reason and moderation you become pure destruction.

>anon jumps into a skub war without reading the books
>embarrasses himself so hard that his own side hates him.
>Ends up making his team lose the skub war
Why do retard newfags keep doing this? If you're new to the game, stay the fuck out of the autist fights, no one needs or wants you to spout your retarded opinion.
How many fucking times do we have to say "Lurk More" before you get it?

>>96362600
>Tremere get a supportive family that shares resources, protects each other, and fosters a community of safety and magical learning.

Everyone in the Pyramid hate each other, they can't directly act against each other due to the blood bond but would happily murder each other if they could. Instead they have to play office politics and get their rivals stuck in dead end positions for centuries.

If you want actual protection and camaraderie, the old boys club of Clan Ventrue is where it's at. Problem is in order to get in you have to be a type a personality leader and pass a rigorous training regimen. So it's really only for one kind of person.

>>96363380
>they can't directly act against each other due to the blood bond but would happily murder each other if they could.
That's not how blood-bonds works. It's emotional manipulation, not the dominate discipline. Everyone in the pyramid is forced to love each other whether they like it or not. That's also part of the horror, the pyramid is fucked up Because the elders are the kind of low-humanity monsters that do shitty things to people they love and your neonate ass will let them get away with it because deep down you crave their recognition and attention.
It's a pyramid scheme of abusive relationship dynamics, weaponized across the entire clan rather than on one or two individuals like in other clans.

>>96363359
Alright, is this what you're talking about in ToJ? Leaving aside the fact that these endings technically aren't canon, as in, haven't actually occurred as of "now", this ending also requires you to perform a purification ritual using ALL GAROU alive on Earth, so that the Destroyer is freed, not the Corruptor.
It also contradicts things like the Talons of the Wyrm, which were created by the Wyrm itself to directly attack Gaia. That's not the act of an innocent victim.
And secondly, it contradicts the Ninth circle of the Black Labyrinth, in which a Black Spiral Dancer gains knowledge of the Wyrm's true nature, and it is NOT said that the Dancer emerges uncorrupted and a better person. Which is what you've been implying this entire time.
>>96363371
> if you lose all reason and moderation you become pure destruction.
No, you silly-billy. Go read about the breed specific consequences of Thralling. You become a corruptor yourself, and most Garou fucking neck themselves after Thralling if they ever return to sanity at all.
>>96363379
Samefag harder, homo. I can't believe I bothered to go hunt down the "what-if" scenario in a semi-canon book that you used as a basis for your argument. Are you the same dude who said that all the Fera are Wyrmish? Hey, why not do one better? Gaia and the Weaver are Wyrmish too!

>>96363416
>which were created by the Wyrm itself to directly attack Gaia.
* which were created by the corrupter, not the balance wyrm anon.

>>96363416
>Which is what you've been implying this entire time.
>This strawman is so obvious even my retard ass could see it.

>>96363401
The blood bond isn't presence either, it fucks your head up something fierce with mixed signals. You're also only bound to those above you so you can easily hate your peers and sabotage them.

I understand they aren't to everyone's taste but Hunter: the Parenting does a good job explaining the horror of the pyramid.

>>96363416
Read the rest of the book as well. Like the description of the possessed version of the perfect metis.

>>96363416
>Go read about the breed specific consequences of Thralling.
>Thralling
Anon, you do know the difference between frenzy and thrall of the wyrm, right?

>>96363431
My point is that the Wyrm IS the Corruptor. It's the one thing. Something would have to externally act to FIX the Wyrm to return it to its status as pure Destroyer. In no scenario does merely cracking the prison of the Wyrm fix it. It's been marinating in its own madness for who knows how many millions of years (at least since the Insect Wars). The Hydra was "produced" from the Wyrm specifically as a mad attempt to get free, but they only served to magnify its madness.
>>96363436
>pointing out the obvious is a strawman
Cope, seethe, you know the deal
>>96363442
Like I said, the book isn't canonical. Not strictly in the sense of being true to the situation of someone plopped into WoD. The Wyrm is not YET restored to Destroyer and freed from the Weaver. ToJ only says what COULD be, given very strict criteria. Elsewhere, it is only implied that the Destroyer can be restored, its not a given that it's just waiting on the players to free it and fix the world.
Pretending that "what-if" scenarios are canon and relevant isn't really useful whatsoever. Which is exactly why I asked for quotes that state clearly that RIGHT NOW the Wyrm is pure and uncorrupted and a helpless victim.
>>96363450
Yes, hence why I specified the Thrall. Not just frenzy. When you Thrall you do not become "pure destruction", quite the opposite.

>>96363416
>NOOOO RAGE IS NOT WYRMISH
>However if you lose yourself to it you become a thrall to the wyrm.
Anon I...

>>96363543
Thrall of the Wyrm didn't exist in 1e, and a lot of Fera don't experience it.

Again, the Angst Parade ruins everything.

>>96363166
No, it's because they're trolls who may or may not have read the books. This place does not help, since it's about as focused on dumb meme takes as reddit for white wolf games.

Is Gaia's ideal world really just a bunch of shapeshifting demigods ruling over a small population of terrified stone-age humans? I vaguely recall book of the weaver opening with something like that and the Mokole supposedly had a lizard empire at some point but "The Red Talons were right about literally everything" sounds kind of dumb.

>>96363543
W20, Rage is literally from Gaia, and the Wyrm can USE it as a way to infest a Garou.
>>96363572
I just don't even get it. It's like they don't want WtA to have an actual overarching villain. That somehow, no one is just BAD. Maybe it's purely autists who really, really hate the Garou as an idea, and thus go to the extreme of claiming that their prime enemy is actually a good guy

>>96363589
No. A series of both cosmic and mundane fuckups has prevented the "ideal" world from ever arising. As far back as the Insect Wars. We genuinely don't know Gaia's "plan"

>>96363572
>Thrall of the Wyrm didn't exist in 1e
Anon, the rank system is completely different in 1e, there are rank 8 fetishes, most of the enemies barely existed, etc. 1e is fucking alien compared to 2e and onward that it doesn't matter to any discussions.

>>96363593
>Insect Wars
Funny to think that gaia's plan never involved any shifters in the original draft. They literally came from the waver's invention.

>>96363612
Oh no the Fera did come from Gaia (and its implied some even from the Wyrm, like how the Weaver made the Insect Shifters). But it's all komd of unclear that far back, and our only info on it comes from Queen Ananasa who is a manipulator par exellance, and definitely UNREALIABLE.

>>96363625
>and our only info on it comes from Queen Ananasa
Also some of the immortal ananasi like anansi(fuck these names) and the defector ananasi.

>>96363673
Oh, they said something about the Insect Wars? Was it in the breedbooks?
>fuck these names
Yeah the Ananasi have some FUCKED up and irritating names.

>>96363590
>Rage is literally from Gaia
I wonder who is also of Gaia oh yeah the wyrm!

>>96363572
It's not angs admitting that the changing breeds are meant to be a replacement for the wyrm.
Anon use your head they are wyrmish as they are supposed to do it's job they were made to destroy to keep the balance.

>>96363721
That's literally a lie. That has never been established, and the relation between the Triat and Gaia is ambiguous.
>the changing breeds are meant to be a replacement for the wyrm.
Literally the only Fera for whom that could be convincingly argued are the Garou, who are literally the TEETH of Gaia. That's what they're called. The job of the Garou IS to destroy....the minions of the Wyrm.
I know you're desperate, for whatever reason, to declare that everything and everybody is "of the Wyrm" purely for autistic satisfaction, but you're objectively incorrect.
The Fera do not exist to "replace" any of the Triat. They only exist to help Gaia (and the Ananasi are DIRECTLY from the Weaver).

>>96363691
>Yeah the Ananasi have some FUCKED up and irritating names.
What's weird is that WtA actually had a great naming sceam for most shifters. Garou, Gurahl, Grondr, Abaja, and Mokole are all clearly based on sounds their animal forms actually make, but retarded shit like the kitsune and nagah use human words to name a tribe that should already have their own language based on mixing native animal sounds. WTF were the writers thinking? Why can't they be consistent for 5 minutes?

>>96363819
>Why can't they be consistent for 5 minutes?
We're talking about WW/Paradox here, man....

>>96363589
>Gaia's ideal world really just a bunch of shapeshifting demigods ruling over a small population of terrified stone-age humans?
That's unironically the most stable ecosystem she could have to sustain herself, so it is the most likely option if the writers don't give some other nonsensical goal or leave it vague as shit to bullshit away any criticism (Impossible).

>>96363819
The Garou name was taken from the Fr*nch and every other name was copied from any myths they could find.
As much as we talk about this game the people that designed it had a much different mindset that could be best explained as "here's what we threw at the wall and where we are taking it, if you don't like it make your own stuff up"

What would be good names that'd make shit like the kistune, naga, ratkin, etc consistent with animal-sound names of most shifters? The fuck kind of noises do foxes make?

>>96363902
>The good shifter names were complete accidents that only LOOKED like genius
That's depressing.

>>96363909
idk, the Japanese have a thing for onomatopoeias so that's probably the best place to start.

>>96363909
>The fuck kind of noises do foxes make?
You just had to say it didn't you?
https://youtu.be/jofNR_WkoCE?si=4SO75GKRKCX48qbI

>>96363942
Japanese onomatopoeias are retarded 90% of the time though. Their alphabet is conjunctional, so they stuff a shit ton of unnecessary consonants into all of their sounds.

>>96363970
Just get a shovel and start digging.

>>96363909
>Kitsune
Avoiding memes, their breed name would be something like "kuwaur" or "guwaur" given what noises foxes actually makes.

>>96357207
Yes, 5th edition is the one that is not spiritually castrated unlike the previous versions.

>>96361188
>>96361264
>>96361277
>>96361279
New York by Night is V5
Obviously they don't know the rules.

>>96364009
You could give them basically any name.

>>96364073
Anons are trying to tie it to the sounds the animal makes because that's the theme with most of the changer names(it may be an accident the writers made it that way, but it's an amazing accident)

>>96364251
I meant in the sense that the vocalizations are varied enough that even something like "Khehehee"

>>96364337
>Khehehee
And... why not? I mean, it's close enough to their weeb name, and fairly fitting in itself.

What was up with the Niktuku, Baba Yaga and the Nosferatu?

I'm pretty sure I've heard drastically different stories at some point or another...

So my Vampire(CoD, Mekhet) has developed a crush on one of the other party members. He knows she's supernatural in some way, but not details of how she's a Demon. They've shown each other a level of trust that vampires don't usually get, and they've tasted each other's blood over the course of the story, which is basically what's driving this.

He can't do a lot of dating things like share dinner AND he has no idea how to have a normal relationship. I plan on using both these facts as a source of comedy.

>>96364433
Unreliable narrator is generally the format the lore is told, so as much as VTR fans say they prefer the mythos being more open-ended the seeds are there for it in VTM too if someone wants to steer the story in that direction. Also you have to be caution when someone is explaining the lore because people frequently mix their head canon with what the books actually say.

what are the best alternative explanations for vampirism

>>96364482
Idk, go read strange dead love and it should give a decent hook for this kind of shit.

>>96364482
>CoD
You're playing call of duty? Why are there vampires? Nazi zombie modes have gotten fucking wild.

>>96364525
He is clearly talking about the fish you dingus!

I know OWoD is a lefty IP, but how do the certain Chosen tribe from the Middle East fit into the setting?

>>96364551
The Samaritans don't really do shit in WoD for whatever reason. I guess their population just isn't big enough to get a story going.

>>96364551
That's covered in the fallen

>>96364498
For vampirism as a concept? Blood mages who got so used of draining blood from other beings (especially humans) to fuel their powers, that they can no longer sustain themselves with normal food, and, past a certain point, their bodies are so corrupted by the process that it can no longer recover from any wounds without burning through blood, leaving them not really dead, but perpetually on the edge of it. This state means they are immortal, but if they either go too long without consuming blood or use too much magic in a short amount of time, their bodies will rapidly decay (either fast ageing or fast rotting). Although this phenomenon occurs across the world, each coven of blood mages who fell on this curse has its own unique ways of feeding and magics they use, which explains differences between myths of blood sucking undead through the world. Like the differences between cainite vampires and the kuei-jin, to use WoD as a reference

>>96364551
Which one? And all of them are Vampires, more or less (there's like three minor subfactions of major game lines, but they're the most boring shit).

>>96364498
Mankind is dead, blood is fuel, hell is full

>>96364551
You mean IRL Pentex?

I think making an Udja-Sen mummo would be a good metaphor for autism.
>misunderstood, seen as broken
>powerful in some ways, weak in others
>out of place and must find their own way
>strengths and weaknesses can only be found on their own
Now I just need a universe in which someone has played Mummy.
>>96358468
>paying for Toreador, a clan with no unique dissies and the most basic cammie bitch clan

>>96364706
No, the other one.

>>96364790
>Now I just need a universe in which someone has played Mummy.
I have yet to meet anyone who has played any edition of Mummy. You'd think that all the weird Egyptology guys at least mention it in order to pick it apart, but no.

>>96364811
>I have yet to meet anyone who has played any edition of Mummy.
I have, but they always played it as a compliment to VtM because original mummy was a VtM supplement. Especially if its the follower of set mega-crossover shit that was big before revised fucked everything.

>>96364811
I think part of the reason is the core of why the game exists: mummy fiction. There really is no mummy fiction that deals with existential and nihilistic themes. From books to movies, it's all deeply Romantic. It's about love, fate, and justice. On its surface, the game is a century too late for modern roleplayers. The rulebook explains how to translate it, but that requires people having already bought the book. For the egyptophiles, the egyptian stuff is all very superficial and is just a vehicle for the above.

>>96361296
While I agree that a lot of VtM/WoD is more resonant now than it was at the time, I do think that comes with a caveat. While most people would agree on the problem, few can agree on a solution. There isn't a single undercurrent of culture, let alone counterculture. So an edition attempting to earnestly dig into these themes is going to either need to refuse to pose any potential solutions, or risk driving away potential players if it does try to take a stand. The former would be the best idea "here's your updated WoD. Up to you how to fix it or even if you can fix it. have fun."

>>96364851
>While most people would agree on the problem, few can agree on a solution.
The same was true in the 90's when the "Proposed Solutions" was going to concerts to scream "Fuck the Man!" and hoping someone else will fix everything while they ALRP about saving the world. Nothing has actually changed, the teenage slacktivist wastes of space from the 90's are now 40+ wine-mom slacktivist wastes of space clogging twitter.

>>96364851
cwod doesn't actually have any proposed solutions. That's actually a large part of the horror, every splat is intividually fucked in various ways and largely fighting various losing battles to change things. The traditions are never realistically going to win the ascension war, the garou will never prevent the apocalypse, the vampires will never overthrow the elders, winter will come for the dreaming, Stygia is already destroyed, and nothing will stop the earthbound from waking to cause a second rebellion.

>>96364886
They did, but even those reflect the changing times. As the 90s wont, the victories are spiritual victories where you give up material success to let justice eventually win. Especially in the wake of climate change and the sudden worldwide rush into perestroika, that doesn't appeal. What is the point of righting mankind's karma for mankind's benefit when the "enemies" are very likely to destroy everything before justice slowly rolls around? Compared to the everpresent, but untouchable threats of esclalating cold war in the 80s, and the nihilstic malaise of the 90s and 00s, modern people see very imminent problems that can be imminently solved, but not in ways that have morally perfect outcomes. Arguably, the way morality and stasis have been intertwined is part of the problem.

>>96365007
>Arguably, the way morality and stasis have been intertwined is part of the problem.
Wasn't wod literally pointing out stasis isn't the moral choice with the weaver, the technocrats, banality, elder vampires, etc?

>>96365007
>modern people see very imminent problems that can be imminently solved
I dunno where you're see those. Could you let me know where they are? All I see are shadowy cabals of rich devil-worshippers that are blatently getting away everything and the oncoming economic/political collapse that we're too late to actually stop.

>>96365084
The issue is that those bad guys didn't actually play by society's rules. It's a cliche to say "we need to give the players a reason to hate them", but real life doesn't require that. In the 90s, there was a sense that some authorities are good and some are bad. Now, people are totally radicalized against authorities altogether.

>>96365113
>Now, people are totally radicalized against authorities altogether
Maybe in the blue-hair areas. Most rural areas and military know the difference still. Not everyone in modern day has lost their minds, just most of the internet.

How good of a merit is this? Do Wyrm spirits try to possess werewolves often?

>>96365160
The dice penalties is the bigger bonus. Wyrm toxins and balefire are BIIIIG issues when doing raid on hives and pentex labs.

>>96365187
How bad we talkin?

>>96364433
What's the problem? The tale at the end is pretty simple. But I guess I can simplify it even further.

Baba Yaga wakes up, takes over Russia, dies to the Niktuku.

>The Imbued be like
Happy hunting, my fellow schizos.

>>96361230
Maybe Vampire and Werewolf, but I think Mage and Changeling are too "misanthropic", like they're not about The Man oppressing the people, more like The Man and the people oppressing the special snowflakes together. Nowadays everyone sees themselves as part of the silent majority, so it doesn't really resonate.

hello, i've been planning on getting into CofD and HtV(originally from dnd) because i would like to make a campaign about monster hunting. How is the combat? i heard it wasn't good.

>>96365662
It isn't, WoD and CofD are both narrative-focused roleplay-heavy storyshitter games. If you're looking for high quality combat mechanics, these aren't the games for you.

>>96365668
is there a supplement for combat to improve it?

>>96365110
If anything, the 90s were the more optimistic time when problems did exist, but people felt they WERE solvable.
>everybody’s recycling and science will discover a vaccine for AIDS! WAGMI
Nowadays, that optimism is gone and everyone is just trying to get theirs before the inevitable collapse.
I’m sure we’re on the same page when I say that’s a similar mindset to fighting a losing battle against the Beast in a shitty, little, small-time game where your coterie will never venture beyond the few square blocks of the city they’re allowed by a Prince that doesn’t even know their names.
>you start at the bottom, you’ll stay at the bottom, and you’ll lose to much ground to the Beast to ever even imagine improving your station.

>>96365785
But there's a fine balance between not seeming so optimistic as to be unrealistic, and not seeming so bleak and realistic as to put off people who are reminded too much of reality.

>>96365124
>Maybe in the blue-hair areas. Most rural areas and military know the difference still. Not everyone in modern day has lost their minds, just most of the internet.
Authorities doesn’t just mean cops/ government.
Plenty of bootlickers in Six-Toe County reflexively reject any form of academic authority, like medical or scientific expertise.

>>96365797
You’re right, of course. I was thinking about that as I was writing out my post.
>what if I wrote an RPG setting where you get fired from your blue collar job, never get another one, get addicted to painkillers, have zero possibility to improve your lot in the slightest. The only real goal in such a game would be to get over your natural fear of death and kill yourself.

>>96365813
Still more optimistic than RL. At least you're not mocked for being a worthless hillbilly subhuman who deserves to be poor and addicted to drugs because you voted for Cheeto Hitler also you don't get to complain about being poor because you're still privileged somehow, and everything bad in the last couple hundred years is your fault so get paying reparations bitch, and also etc etc etc

>>96361244
>i'm not a wyrm cultist, but...

>>96365840
Don’t forget
>also, you don’t get to complain when Cheeto Hitler fucks you because, after all, this is what you voted for, hayseed.

All disciplines are just different types of thaumaturgy

Nosferatu is the only clan for players who want to play a good guy.

>>96365764
There’s a a whole supplement called Hurt Locker you can look into in the mega. Whether it makes combat “better”, that’s subjective. I’m actually in a similar situation to you, so I can relate. The combat is VERY deadly, that doesn’t change. It’s very ADND-esque in that if combat had engaged In Hunter you’ve either fucked up or stacked the deck so in your favor you’ll one-tap the other guy.

>>96365902
Well, not a bad way to cope with the fact they got fucked by the embraced.

Where do I start? Convincing my buddies can come later

>>96365966
I understand why they changed the appearance of the Nosferatu in v5, but I still like the old way better.

>>96365976
Vampire the Masquerade.
Get revised edition if you are an inexperienced ST. If you are a bad enough dude, go ahead and get V20.

>>96365988
ON IT, CHIEF

>>96366004
>v5

>>96366009
he cute
why shouldn't i play v5?

>>96365840
I am pretty ssure these people are utterly apathetic and don’t vote. At least thats how it works where I live.

>>96366019
It's missing stuff from previous versions that older fans like. It's more limited in general, really. It's functional, and I'm sure it serves as a decent first version for new players, but it pales somewhat in comparison to older editions.

>>96366019
Retarded lore
"Simplified" discipline system that doesn't make sense (I'm talking about having fewer disciplines)
Dumbed down chargen
Low quality supplements
Ugly art
Probably some other stuff I can't remember because I'm sleep deprived.

Horrid Henry is a Widderslainte.

>>96366058
both are edible

>>96366058
V5 should be in Comic Sans.

>>96366058
I don’t really think that’s fair. VTM has always been a storytelling system with a truly awful mechanic built around it.

The lore changes? I get that, but one of the things about the setting is also that no one actually knows the truth and everything is based on legend and hearsay.

>>96366143
>Comic Sans
What's wrong with comic sans? I honestly would prefer it to vampire cursive cause it's at least legible without half a bottle of vodka.

>>96366229
>no one actually knows the truth
>echoes of autistic demonfag screeching intensify

>>96363603
The only difference in the Rank system is that a whole lot of extraneous portions got shaved off. Not having forced symmetry with Triatic Wyrms put to breeds is a good thing because it keeps people from a lot of the bad takes in this thread.

>>96363721
Picking up the slack for a balancer isn't the same thing as being of it or even like it. It's pretty damn well apparent that Garou don't operate in a metaphysical way like the uncorrupted Wyrm, because the uncorrupted Wyrm is lost.

>>96363819
>sounds made by animal forms

Anon most of them are names of beings in human myths IRL. Though hilariously, the Garou from Loup-Garou means "person" instead of wolf. What's more, all of the form names for most of them are in bad Latin. So you can stop bitching about the Nagah using Farsi and Sanskrit/Hindi or the Kitsune using Japanese, because it's pointless and dumb to do.

>>96363970
>Japanese
>alphabet

It's a syllabary.

>>96364551
They're people. Some of them get involved in the shadowy underbelly of the world, most of them aren't, like anyone else. Some Garou in various parts of the world took up defending them since way back (the Bone Gnawers in Poland, for example) because of personal and tribal patron sympathies, leading to the obvious end of werewolf bar mitzvahs. (spooky, scary!)

>>96365160
It's a rare bane that tries, but the ones who do are bad news and the end result of their success, even worse.

>>96365225
Technically, it means you don't get a huge hit on battle scars caused by toxic waste and such, depending on the system (the modifier was such that the least result was getting your genitals melted off).

>>96365662
Honestly I think the combat in vigil is fine if you just nix athletics to defense.

uuuuuh malkavian girl pussy making me act unwise

>>96366475
Bruh...

>>96366229
When people talk about hating V5 lore they're not talking about obscure details from the earliest nights or high level conspiracies, they're talking about easily observable and apparent recent actions and developments.

And they're right to do so. Most V5 plot points have always been very implausible in my estimation and even worse, the themes feel completely off for what Vampire in the 2010s-2020s should be.

>>96366496
>they're talking about easily observable and apparent recent actions and developments.
Could you give me an example?

(FWIW, I’ve always ignored the ten thousand years of history part of the lore in my games since I prefer to have my players be ignorant noobs in a world that will absolutely kill them dead. V20 and earlier systems lent themselves more to powergaming and made hunting down and diablerizing Caine himself a reasonable thing to do by the end of a campaign.)

>>96366542
>diablerizing Caine himself a reasonable thing to do by the end of a campaign.

Antediluvians don't have stats let alone Caine. That is objectively not something you could do by the end of a campaign without homebrewing them up.

>>96366475
Based.
Unless it's your mother. You aren't fucking your mother, are you?

>>96366475
speaking of i am weirdly happy that the Ananke are now canon and just like in classical age got necromancy instead of just being presence malkavians
and i don't even play v5

>>96366542
uh dude the only book that ever even dared to mention diablerizing caine was the v5 gehenna war

>>96366556
>welp, guys, the campaign is over. there’s nothing you guys can fight anymore. the sun does nothing to you and you can dominate the entire planet at once.

>>96366576
I think he was speaking hyperbolically. The older editions made it very easy to become ridiculously powerful in a short time.

>>96366542
> I prefer to have my players be ignorant noobs in a world that will absolutely kill them dead.
That’s the point of v5's scale. Players shouldn’t be Dracula-tier in a personal horror setting.

>>96366542
>speaks authoritatively on older editions, claims to have run multiple games
>is entirely unfamiliar with V5's many controversial new plot points all these years later

You'll forgive me if I find your post hard to take seriously. If you just wanted to have a fight about V5, just say so.

>>96365662
>How is the combat? i heard it wasn't good.
It is fine, once you understand the basics it flows well.

>>96366718
>refuses to give even a single solitary example despite insisting that many examples exist
You'll forgive me if I find your post hard to take seriously. If you just wanted to have a fight about V5, just say so.

>>96365976
Just get V20, because it complies a good 90% of the lore, and read up on 1e for the tone.

>>96366475
Don't. I had unprotected sex with a borderline chick and now I've fucked up my life since she lives on the other side of town so my commute is now an hour. Despite her being actually pretty nice so far and apparently taking good care of our daughter, I've read the horror stories and have experienced some of the typical borderline abuse tactics (triangulation, discarding, DARVO, etc.) - I know it's just a matter of time until she cheats or has another psychotic break/suicide attempt. On the bright side, such experiences and research have given me lots of ideas for a domain's Harpy.

Stop. Do NOT pursue the malkavian girl pussy.

>>96366718
I wanted to see someone’s different opinion. We’re both rational enough to understand the difference between opinion and facts.
People have things that they like and dislike.

>>96366813
This. Every system is clunky at first. Unless your players are completely new to TTRPGs they’ll get the gist of it within the first session. By the end of the third session, it will be second nature.

>>96366851
>People have things that they like and dislike
100%, I don't have an issue with that. I'll be honest though, that post read like bait on account of the hyperbolic claims about older editions juxtaposed by the total ignorance about what V5 actually changed.

If you've genuinely been living under a rock I'd say read it for yourself because we do have V5 books in the megas, but I'll spoonfeed the bullet points. The main changes from Masquerade to V5 in terms of the setting fixtures are
>Elders feel a strange compulsion to head to the middle east so no more elders (except when we want them)
>Sabbat fucked off to the middle east. The whole Sabbat. (except some stragglers we retconned back in)
>Glowies finally cottoned on to the supernatural and went full TVD, whole cities have been wiped out and they're even working across national lines and with the society of leopold. (the scale of the SI was walked back heavily with every release though)
>This made the Camarilla bury their head in the sand and become silly technophobes
>And the Anarchs are now their primary geopolitical rivals instead of the Sabbat
>Oh and all the necromancy bloodlines decided to become one clan again. Even the Nagaraja who aren't related.

As I noted, most if not all of these were significantly walked back to a more moderate, milquetoast version of themselves due to backlash and honestly the bigger sin, endemic of the entire edition's problems, they're annoyingly restrictive.

>>96366892
Thanks. I haven’t exactly been living under a rock, but it’s been close.

I agree with most of your points. Personally, I think they should have just scrapped the whole thing and restarted the setting with a clean sheet (wasn’t that what requiem was, though?)
Then you wouldn’t have retcons stacked atop retcons.

The thing with the Elders and the Sabbbat fucking off especially. Like, just write them out if you want to get rid of them, WW/Paradox.

>>96366936
nta, you're sorta right about requiem but that game had it's own laundry list of problems (ttrpg industry being on the decline, mismanagement, writers trying to re-invent the wheel, etc.)

>>96366936
Honestly, I apologize if I was hostile earlier.

>I think they should have just scrapped the whole thing and restarted the setting with a clean sheet (wasn’t that what requiem was, though?)
I honestly like Requiem, but it cut too much of what I liked about Masquerade, and it wasn't very well handled at first. I think the best choice is to introduce an open ended, metaplot free Masquerade. Which is sorta what V20 was, and V20 was a resounding success. People like having the big things they can point to, jump off from, or amend, but they don't like being overly restricted.

>>96367004
>Honestly, I apologize if I was hostile earlier.
nta, but holy fucking shit, people being civil on 4chan?
You deserve an award, sir.

>>96367004
No worries. It’s cool.

V20, I read once described as being a playable encyclopedia.
I imagine in an ideal world, the rulebook would have been ten or so pages of actual rules, clearly written, and then a couple hundred pages of lore that STs can pick from as needed.

>>96366844
99% of malk pursuers give up before fixing her, you can do it bro

>>96367202
Lasombra pussy>>> malk pussy

>>96367308
Fucking a portal to hell > sticking your dick in crazy

Never stick your dick in crazy

>>96367314
so you are saying a baali girl has a chance?

>>96367308
Lasombra pussy and butthole literally saps your will to live.

New thread
>>96367570

>>96367490
Wasn't there a lasombra merit/discipline that let you open a portal to the void through your asshole/pussy? Let's not even get into the tzimisce vagina dentata one.