Thread 96361096

>>96361096 (OP)
What game? Who said this?

>>96361096 (OP)
Isn't clerics entire thing being spellcasters that wear armor and aren't totally helpless when they run out of slots like wizards are?

>>96361120
/tg/ isn't just for games but for fantasy and scifi discussion in general.

>>96361096 (OP)
Clerics can wear armor in every edition of D&D. D&D invented classes in ttrpgs as well as clerics being one of those classes.

Your strawman is moronic. You made it because you don't play games.

>>96361096 (OP)
Most of the /tg/ audience doesn't play games for the sake of logical gameplay, most of the /tg/ audience are autists who like to systematize a convoluted set of arbitrary rules. I don't understand for whom this thread is for?

>>96361096 (OP)
"the warrior pope"
sounds like a fighter multiclass

>>96361096 (OP)
kek Luther and Erasmus got fucking MOGGED

>>96361140
I haven't seen any games discussed here in years.

>>96361096 (OP)
No one says this

>>96361792
Healslut degenerates do.

>>96361096 (OP)
Neither God nor magic exist IRL.

>>96361792
Clearly Erasmus and Luther did.

>>96361220
Actually its just a fighter with a powerful title.

>>96361096 (OP)
>"Clerics shouldn't wear armor!"
Yes. No holy figure in real life was ever been an actual cleric, they were fighters (actually npc warrior class) with holy titles. An actual bonafide holy person would have the divine on their side, aka holy grace, and not need armor. It's also because of fucked up game design by an idiot who used a specific bishop as inspiration and just tacked full casting onto it. From the beginning the class has had identity issues and fucked game design that has long become a sacred cow exploited by powergamers and munchkins. Further devs have only exacerbated the problem.

A proper full caster should not have the ability to step on the toes of other class niches, ala fighter and paladin. A caster can spend resources like feats to gain the ability to wield martial weapons and armor, but their ability to fight should never even be close to equal, even with spells, to a martial character.

Also, nice that you spun this off into its own thread after getting your ass blasted in another.

>>96363570
There's never been a real life Paladin or Wizard either you retard. The point of historical inspirations is to build off of them.

>>96363579
>There's never been a real life Paladin or Wizard either you retard.
True, that's why we look to fiction and its precedents (aka the inspirations for paladins and wizards unironically). But also, there's fucking game design considerations that are important.
>The point of historical inspirations is to build off of them.
Yeah, and the cleric should be based on actual miracle workers, the many saints and holy figures who performed miracles, the vast majority of which were not warriors and didn't wear armor. Not noblemen given religious political titles who went off to kill Muslims and Christians in the Middle East.

>>96363629
>actual miracle
actual supposed miracle workers

>>96363629
The modern Cleric IS the result of game considerations. Aside from spells Clerics are distinguished from Wizards by being able to hold their own in non-magical combat. They're still primarily casters but aren't excessively fragile and can support the group when things are tough in a melee.

And your logic is flawed, the saints who worked miracles didn't wear armor because their miracles were taking place outside of combat. A Cleric who is working miracles in combat would be wearing armor. Since D&D is a combat game most Clerics would wear armor.

>>96361096 (OP)
I don't care for arguments. The idea of an armored warrior priest is just too cool.
That's all justification I need.

My first understanding of Clerics/Healers was FF so my innate understanding of Cleric preference is very much the unarmored kind but to me when I think of Clerics from D&D, I do think of an armored mace user going around hitting shit.

>>96363686
I want to see priests of Torm and Bane together in a dance competition

>>96363676
>The modern Cleric IS the result of game considerations.
It really isn't. Its a class based on strong sacred cows that has been ported to each edition basically as is, with only variations to domains and how they work. What differentiates the cleric from the wizard is divine magic and domains (or spheres in older editions). Armor and martial training is a sacred cow stapled on because of initial shitty inspirations and design decisions. Martial training has long caused issues with class identity and niche toe stepping, especially as editions have come and gone. Its a singular bad set of design decisions that have been kept for bad reasons.

There is a reason many have issues with the class alongside paladins these days, and its literally the fucking armor and martial training. It looks like a paladin in art. It looks like a fighter with divine power. It looks and plays like two classes stapled together that shouldn't be. Its got better divine casting than a paladin, but just as good martial power (or better with certain spells). Its got just as good martial power as a fighter (or better with certain spells), plus full casting. This is bad game design, period.

People like having the armor and weapon training because it allows them to be both excellent warriors and still have excellent casting. Its a shitty power fantasy based on poor design. Its the best version of a gish ever conceived, the one that occupies the good at spell casting and good at martial spot that no other gish gets and shouldn't get.

>their miracles were taking place outside of combat
And wizard magic is based on myths, legends, and fiction of out of combat spell casting alongside Jack Vance spell "combat". Again, the fiction of the class can support combat casting despite its inspirations not having combat casting.

>>96363570
>No holy figure in real life was ever been an actual cleric
Loads of holy figures in real life have been actual clerics. No holy figure in real life has ever been a fantasy game cleric.

>>96363806
You knew what I meant and yet you needed to post this idiocy. Of fucking course they were goddamned clerics, but also imams, rabbi, witchdoctors, druids, and any number of other real world priestly titles. Your autistic pedantry isn't needed or wanted.

>>96361096 (OP)
>pope leading armies
This goes against canon 7 of Chalcedon

>>96361236
Don't lie.

>>96361096 (OP)
Nobody says this, and hell stats about 5e user polls prove that the people who still play D&Dogshit prefer domains that grant heavy armor.

>>96363827
It's amazing that you know what I know. Tell me what else I know oh great mind reader.

You don't need to say they are "goddamned clerics, but also imams..." Clergy and cleric doesn't refer just to Christianity. Imams are already Muslim clerics. Everyone you listed looked like clergy.

>>96363871
Is this why Dante Alighieri put so many popes in Hell in his Inferno?

>>96363774
You're an idiot.

>>96363892
>Don't lie.
Where are people discussing games?

>>96361809
>>96361096 (OP)
GO BACK TO /V/

>>96364193
Why do you hate me because I told the truth?

>>96363579
>The point of historical inspirations is to build off of them.
Sure, but by that logic OP's example of a particular pope who wore armor, which shocked and drew mockery from other people in the time period, and was so notably different from other popes that he got a nickname based on it, shouldn't be considered the standard.

You can probably also find historical examples of people who wore armor while also dabbling in occult and alchemy, but that doesn't mean Wizards should wear armor either.

>>96361096 (OP)
Brother Longstrother of the Knight's Hospitaller of St John disagrees with your statement.

>>96363686
Is it just me or does the Priest of Malar look kinda like Gaston?

>>96361096 (OP)
Who says this? Who cares?

>>96363676
>Since D&D is a combat game most Clerics would wear armor.
By that logic everyone should wear armor. And that logic is correct. Everyone should wear armor.

>>96361140
>fantasy and scifi discussion
And here you are talking about history.

>>96361096 (OP)
divine vs arcane magic divide is stupid, erase it. Armor now reduces spellcasting success because Iron disturbs magic like an iron dildo in a fey disturbing. If a cleric wears armor he will be protected physically and a bit magically (steel is still mostly iron, buffing fighters against magic) but be less effective at magic. If a cleric wants to be more effective at magic, for blasting or for healing, he will not wear metal armor. All magic is gatekeeped by those who poses the knowledge and your lack of intelligence to learn, so it's easier to learn at institutions, for a price. Most can't pay, some are scouted, others can learn on their own but it's rarer. Your world now can have both, and now the bikini armor defends against something a bit, a bit more if you used hit location rules.