Thread 96362431

The horses will return in the next thread, I'm sure

Previous thread: >>96355580

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>HH 3.0 - Complete gofile - All Books:
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>New Edition, to a great wailing and gnashing of teeth
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>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
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『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
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>Tactics
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>Thread Question:
What non-Astartes units are you fielding?

>>96362431 (OP)
>TQ
Servitors, daemons and SA.

want to start mechancium, how does the no troops besides tech priests thing work? does the army have line?

Why the FUCK did they butcher the DA legion trait?

I finished watching the 3 seasons of the Umamusume Pretty Derby anime, is that enough background knowledge to make a fluffy White Scars list or do I need to watch Cinderella Gray too?

>>96362486
Might as well you have the time.

>>96358823 #
Mine is done. Time to add some fancy doors and paint it for the IVth.

It's a wee bit bigger than a Phobos, but of the same height.

For some reason it just works.

>>96362472
>why aren't my special fucking retards special

>>96362515
The trait barely works

>>96362451
>S9
Nogames go and stay go

>>96362467

Your primary detachment is basically just HQs, your Magi give two detachments each and your Apexes are really good so just grab Archmagos + his 1-2 flunkies and use those to take all your actual units. It's not that significant a restriction in practice.

We don't have Line, instead any magos/tech-priest will add a line-equivalent to the squads they're embedded in, so it's not like we really need troops to take objectives. The troop tech-priests are points-efficient cybertheurgy, grav-guns and Battlesmith (and strangely, better Chaplains/Overseers than real Chaplains/Overseers, they're superb when attached to allied squads) but they're not something I expect to see in anywhere near every list.

>>96362431 (OP)
>TQ

My whole mech army, at present, but I'm putting together some fluffy Istvaan III lists based on the battles in the first Black Book, so I might end up with some absurd hodgepodge of Ordo Reductor, some Death Guard, a tiny handful of World Eaters and some odds and ends soonish. It's a fun game to see how good a 3k list I can build while sticking exactly to the specific numbers of marines with specific gear mentioned in the Black Book chapter fiction from Morturg's perspective.

I'm not sure how to outfit a retinue for the Paragon of Battle WE champion that's part of that list so far - torn between stock champ + praetorian command and Cata Champ + Vet Breachers so the squad can have Vanguard 3 and get the benefits of Heavy, and no idea what power weapons to hand out to either squad. I'm a mech player, we just punch things.

Once Militia come out I might grab some Militia or Aux to provide chaff and screens for the Mechanicum or my Sons of Horus.

>>96362519
>waaaaaaah why do I have a lukewarm trait but a special snowflake detachment for every element of my snowflakes
The fact that your trait does anything at all is enough.

>>96362407
Fan canon being real is the entire point of HH. Also, every legion fought every other legion canonically

>>96362517
Nice. I know you said it's Phobos sized, but I'll pretend that's what Spartans look like, instead of Land Raider Limousines

>>96362591
Fan canon is better, and fixes things (for you). I mean, the opposing is that anon who refused to play against Ultramarines because the White Scars never fought them. Like sure, not that we know of, but maybe that's one of the forgotten battles of this dark era

>>96362525
Oh sorry, the entry is written wrong. S10. One entire extra point of strength. Totally different argument. Damn youre a fucking retard.

>>96362554
I head Magi give pseudo Line to whatever squad they're in, but you still can't score with Battle Automata unless said magos is also of Legion (Cybernetica)

>>96362649
A choice between AP5 and S9 Melta reminds me of the Land Raider Achilles. Non-assault transports got vastly better, and they can carry VEQ who don't have much to envy from actual Terminators. And the Achilles is almost indestructible...but 280 pts for two 24" S9 shots is beyond sad. It's ass. Like, I kinda wish they were Lascannon Arrays instead (never cared for Volkite)

>>96362656

This is the case, yes, but it's quite easy to get them Cybernetica minders even if they're just 35-65pt troop techpriests to throw buffs on them, battlesmith them and maybe fire a gravgun to pin their enemies, since the troops come with Comptroller (psuedo-Line) 1 and Magi are all Comp 2. Many automata are also Vanguard anyway, so they don't need Comptroller characters since Vanguard is exclusive with Comp in the same way as Line.

>>96362519
I would literally give you my WB trait for your stormwing detachment.

I wouldn't even need a legion trait. You could have mine and keep yours too, just for 1 of your 6 unique detachments.

>>96362431 (OP)
Thanks for baking, got stuck at work.

>>96362431 (OP)
>What non-Astartes units are you fielding?
Thallax and Castellax. I always wanted them since 1e but was poor until the end of 2e when I got them.

>>96362519
I really think it's not working as intended. Not that it needs to be be amazing, just that it is too niche within mechanics.

>>96362649
>Totally different argument
It literally is
>350 points for a tank that, on average dice, kills a land raider a turn, can splitfire with impunity, and can react with it's main gun is bad, actually
Holy fuck just stop talking

So how the fuck did Janus found the Blood Ravens after the Horus Heresy if Malcador put him in charge of the Grey Knights?

how many extra mkiv sprues do you have?
seeing as gw will never reprint these and the original mkiii, should i be snatching up any NOSs i find? have about 30 bois of each old print, but that doesn't sound like a lot in my brain.

>>96362790
Because they're secretly blood angels successors who hide the flaw. Why else would they use the blood drop symbology from the blood angels? Now go back to /40kg/

CSM bodies for SoH reavers, Y/N?

cant see any real change to the body itself just a head, weapon, shoulderpad and backpack swap

>>96362811
Shouldn’t cutting someone’s head off with a chain weapon be really fucking messy.

>>96362811
Yeah CSM bodies look real good on NL, WB and SoH veterans. The 40k CSM kits one of the vest modern gw kits ever made honestly.

>>96362785
>350 points for a tank that, on average dice, kills a land raider a turn, can splitfire with impunity, and can react with it's main gun is bad, actually
Oh ok youre just being a retard on purpose. I thought Putin would have sent all you shitposters off to die by now.

Chaos warrior shields as combat shields for WB Assault Vets. Think it'll work?

its time to apologise

>>96362828
he didnt cut that head off. he just found it. thats why he's pissed off

>>96362934
"gluk gluk. we don't think the current rules are bad. gluk gluk. anyway here's our overhaul"

>>96362790
Easy, he didn't.
The whole point of that story was Chris Wraigh being forcef to bury the idea of BR=TS despite the Revuel Arvida plot line being obviously about explaining how a loyalist TS became their founder.

it's clear that GW changed their mind and forced authors to stop feeding that theory.

>>96362974
Yes, because it would be retarded for a faction that uses blood angel symbology to be TS successors

>>96362517
it uses the same doors as land raiders?

>>96362934
>>96362944
What the fuck is with autists and terrain "diversity"

>>96363036
Ruiniggers

>>96362993
Is this today's retarded hot take to fish for (you)s?

>>96363047
kill all loyalist traitors

I don't agree with units inside Heavy cover being invulnerable to shooting, but what's wrong with Medium Cover blocking LoS after 3" thickness?
Blocking line of sight has a place.

>>96362944
Am I a fucking retard or does the rules not say 3" through area terrain, I don't think that's an issue unless you're using L shaped ruins with a defined foot print like a fag.

Are you on vacation yet, anons?

>>96363036
honestly the heresy mostly suffers from terrain on the board. I swear it is the most unappealling thing about the game visually when its always a bunch of giant tanks stuck in every street, virtually nothing moves all game and then you get a melee jammed between two vehicles.

>>96363087
we wuz from prospero n shiet

>>96362993
>symbology

>>96363096
>symbology: collective form of symbols

>>96362944
>the only LOS blocking area terrain piece is the one that provides a 4+ cover save
Wow they've somehow made it even worse and more binary. Amazing. I didn't think it was possible to be this incompetent

>>96363093
So you agree, 32mm tanks are the problem

>>96363093
So you agree that Centurion and Zone Mortalis are the best gamemodes and that there should be a hard limit on tanks in regular games, similar to the superheavy tax, that prevents the game from devolving into tanks squished up against each other fighting at incredibly close range in retarded numbers that MAKE THE BOARD LOOK LIKE SHIT?

>>96363157
Simply expanding the superheavy tax of "must make up 25% or less of your points allowance for most armies" to all tanks would do the trick. That includes rhinks and sabres.

>>96363105
>ology - study of
Blood Ravens are incorporating Blood Angel's symbolism (or iconography). You aren't interpreting Blood Angel's symbols.

>>96363115
not really, games like the Old World and 40k have big units but they don't result in such ugly static boards. Pic related is a before and after of a game lmao. Cutting down to 4 turns really hasn't helped either but holy shit all that terrain yet most units have moved less than 6" away from deployment.

>>96363196
>L shaped ruins
>huge empty streets that squads can use to shoot down range from
>not enough blocking to allow faster units to flank enemies without getting shot at
>board is small enough that DA tanks don't even have to move out of their deployment zone to duel enemy tanks for 4 turns

Saying boards should have less terrain, or homogenous terrain is the number 1 identifier for having shit taste.

The only thing shitter is 3e terrain rules which literally no one is have seen likes.

chainace or chainsword?

kinda wanna take the axe for the aesthetic but the I-1 might fuck me over

>>96363115
>>96363157
>>96363196
Is this problem solved by just having a larger game board?

Auxfags, is this accurate?

>>96363060
Bc it's not a ruin blocking LOS, it's a whole area. And this is retarded bc you have models completely in the open with no LOS obstruction at all that are somehow invisible. And it's already stupid when shooting at them but it becomes mind numbingly retarded when a unit 3" in front of them, with no obstruction in between, can not charge them bc retarded terrain rules

>>96363186
It would be literally impossible to run the SA in such a world, you'd need to give them more than 4 infantry units.

>>96363243
not really, same as 1.0 tanks are too durable whereas there should be much greater difference based on which side of the tank is hit to encourage flanking, which is why armour works in games of BA (though that also typically has far fewer tanks that have a smaller footprint, while generally moving greater distances). possibly you should also make tanks deploy by moving onto board edges rather than get randomly slapped down in deployment zones in the middle of the board.

>>96363284
See for yourself anon

>>96363298
>m.jpg
Fucking stop already.

>>96363306
>tanks are too durable
Tanks are fine. There's nothing wrong with tank durability outside of maybe the Kratos.

>>96363342
TOTAL
PHONEPOSTER
DEATH

>>96363342
No.

>>96363306
I think tanks are perfectly fine being strong, by virtue of being a tank they’re meant to be. The issue, I think it that tanks are far too numerous without the support or restrictions they would have in a real battle, meaning you can clog the board with them without any rhyme or reason.

>>96362472
That was the old trait for WB and they were told to stop bitching and it is ok and fine.

So for all the shit you gave others for being sad about lame legion traits come back to you.

>>96362472
Your legion trait is fine, its just WB from last edition (well, a bit better actually). You also have better detachments than everyone else, it balances out.

I wonder if they'll use this book to update some of the Legion rules and give Cohort rules to the auxilia.

>>96362714
>I would literally give you my WB trait
You did....

SoH/AL vet HSS with banestrike combi-bolters?

the sheer amount of dakka must be worth considering right? due to 4 shots each and inplacable advance on the unit. banestrike combi-bolter costing 10ppm and competing against other options like heavy disintegrators, meltaguns and plasmaguns though

>>96362846
Now that corrupted is a trait you can give any legion I think the csm bodies will fit very thematically for a lot more later heresy armies.
Personally I was using them for my Zardu buffed corrupted despoilers last edition.

Trying to make a 3k auxilia force loosely based on Soviet motor rifle companies circa 1986. Here's what I've come with so far, how dogshit we talking?

Armoured cohort
1*10 veteran tactical command with vox and Demolisher dracosan
1*tank commander with Demolisher, flare shield, missile
1*tank commander with plasma, flare shield, missile

3*20 rifles in demo Draco's

3*4 rapiers (bolters, lasers, mortars)

2* vanquisher malcadors

2* Demolisher Russ

Idea would be to have one commander in each tank group and essentially just overwhelm with armour while my infantry bubble wrap and hold objectives (and die)

any fun things a TS forgelord can do to his squad of thallax hoes?

>>96363535
Where are your battle donkeys?

>>96363596
Sir, we call them lasrifle sections now

I could make a cadian themed SA army...
kasrkin, armageddon pattern medusa's etc

could be a cool idea

>>96363693
Cool how? Kitbashing something new with elements of Cadian minis? Or just using one of the most common 40k armies in 30k?

>>96363693
Cadia wasn't even settled by the Imperium yet

>>96363705
using exclusively older cadian stuff, SA stuff if there isnt an equalivent (e.g dracosan)

so lasrifles are kasrkin, the old metal ones
that type of deal

>>96362993
It would also be retarded for a faction that uses raven guard symbology to be Blood Angels successors
Blavens are Word Bearers

>>96363724
I dunno, it would make sense for Imperial Militia since they have no official models and people have to use whatever is on hand. But with SA? That's like me dusting off my Dark Vengeance Dark Angels and playing them in Heresy - people would let me since it's technically marines and enable me to play the game we like, but I don't think anyone would call it original. But you do you, I'm not going to rain on your parade.

Titanicus has been played! 1800 points, but due to store closure we had to end in the middle of turn 3 but I was going to lose (shocking).
Quite embarrassingly it turns out I've been playing with a vital rule incorrectly for the last seven years because I misread the rules once and never re-read them until my mistake was pointed out. Turns out when you declare Voids to Full it's per gun attack rather than per titan attack as each gun is considered a separate attack. This means pushing for shields is a much more fraught affair than I thought and puts reactors into play much more than they were before. God I feel like an idiot. I already knew I was an idiot why do I have to keep reminding myself?

>>96363790
Turn 1 all the knights die. The warlord kills the magaera in 1 volcano cannon shot but the warbringer needs all 3 of its guns. Stripes gets fucked up by 2 crits to the body too.

Odds on militia rules tomorrow?

>>96363802
Rock 'em Sock 'em Reaver suffers for its ambition, failing to do major damage and is left alone on the firing range as 2 reavers and a warlord position to engage 2 warbringers. Off to the side Stripes dies turn 2 after accurate volcano cannon shots.

>>96363821
But the game ends because the shop is closing. Surely I would have been demolished but I might have taken one with me.

That rules gaff had me totally thrown off. It's the problem with only really playing one or two opponents for so long you don't realize your errors if you're never looking things up. I guess that's one thing battle reports might be good for, just double checking your reading comprehension.

>>96363809
I fucking hope so. As a militia fag from 1.0 onwards I'm so excited to see what we get. Even though most matches will feel like pic related.
But, Nah, I'd win.

>>96362431 (OP)
>What non-Astartes units are you fielding?
Solar Aux Artillery command section + 3 basilisks, every game i put them out they do gods work quite well. Turns out 3 S10 board range pie plates are good.

>>96363868
I wish I brought Laserbeak, a warlord duel would have been fucking awesome.

>>96363849
>>96363809
Rules seem to get worse every edition. I'd fucking dread releases at this point

>>96363904
>dreading GW rule releases.
First time huh?
Been that way since AoS across every GW game, updates end up being worse then anything.

>>96363859
I was thinking of running 2 or 1 bassy and 1 medusa. How are you screening them? Or just driving them around?

>>96363492
>banestrike combi-bolter costing 10ppm and competing against other options like heavy disintegrators, meltaguns and plasmaguns though
Fucking this. 0 granularity when the only price options are +5, +10 and +15.

>>96363929
>screening
By not. thing is DS is so shit now, i dont really need to worry about it. People seem to underestimate them. But they can be really swinging at times I will say for 425 poitns its worth it.
If you are worried about screening, i would say use the prime slot on the HQ to just take a heavy walker unit, and you can get 3 of those heavy wealkers for 180 points and they are pretty meaty units.
They are good, but i would not drive them around since they have S5 guns and its Ordinance Strength,.

>>96363295
>it's not a ruin blocking LOS, it's a whole area
Yeah, a forest no? You can see what's in it, but not what's on the other full side of it. Makes sense to me. Isn't that what's going on here?

I built a rhino like a year ago with 2x combi bolter because it looked cool.
My other rhinos all have a regular bolter and a havoc launcher.
Do I run the other one as that as well, or I do be a man and pay the additional 5 points and have that rhino be different?
I think I be a man.

>>96363994
You be a man of course.

>>96363904
Surely they would just stop militia rules if they were to make them so bad to be less playable then 2.0...
Surely us mortal few will get our chance to stand toe to cereamite toe and face our foes.

Did the Night Lords have a prison bitch culture?

>Bought Saturnine
>Ran the terminators for two test games
>Put them on the shelf after
They're just not good, bros.
I wanted dual plasma bombards to at least be impactful but they didn't do much of anything.

>>96364119
sounds like a skill issue

>>96362799
They're Thousand Sons successors

>>96364119
Bro Saturnine are disgusting, I've seen them wipe command squads in volley fire

>>96364119
The only "reasonable" loadout is fist+ flamer, and plasmagun on the other arm to keep them cheap. But right now the're a schizo unit, and some retard decided that for same reason their best gun shoudl be their sidearm, so they're at this weird spot where they want to deep strike with the praetor, but they don't really want to be in melee. The "best" way to run them involves just deep striking and rinsing some tacs off an objectives with templates, and your praetor acts as a 300 point charge deterrent

Did GW only ever make 3 legion-specific levis? Or did they make more but removed them from the store? And why the fuck did White Scars of all legions get one?

>>96364138
>This one time it happened and i base my entire perception on that.
Im sure it was great anon, but that happens once in a blue moon.

Saturnine terminators just suck, way to much money for not enough UMF. Plasma is the only good weapon but you never wanna run 2 of them because you will hardly ever get to shoot both and you are fucked in melee

>>96364140
Why not just spend 425 points to have 3 basilisks in the back line doing the same fucking thing.

>>96364199
Because basilisks aren't AP3 or Vanguard. I didn't say they were "good", just that it was the most reasonable way to run them. They're still extremely inefficient and force you to either waste the praetor's melee stats, or charge your subpar unit into melee and hope the praetor alone carries

>>96364212
Oh i agree with you, the saturnine are just kinda shit.
Which is funny because i know some many people going crazy over them like they are the best thing ever and looking the best ever, and im just like....
Bro these look like dog shit both rule wise and model wise, they look over designed as hell and dont fit.

>>96364218
The models are a matter of taste, personally I think they're one of the best kits GW has made in recent memory. But it's weird how every single new unit in the box is dogshit. Saturnine praetor, terminators, disintegratos in general. The only decent unit might be the turret

>>96364109
Bro they literally had prison shanks last edition

So where are you getting your Vanguard, Marine players?
Assault Squads?
Terminators?

>>96364151
Four. Dark Angels, Blood Angels, White Scars, and Emperor's Children.

>>96362944
>>96363111
I'm impressed at how badly they fucked up.Of all the in-out-not-through options they chose heavy. I get why, but heavy is supposed to be actually dense or solid terrain like whole walls or cargo container stacks, stuff that is solid but might have pinholes etc. They also didn't fix being obscured by cover but not in it magically hitting your single exposed toe with no save. All they had to do was
>Being obscured by the terrain grants the save
Plus either
>See in-out-not-through medium
or
>"Dense" modifier of 6" visibility that worsens by 3" as the save increases
Now we have intervening terrain mattering, large areas of light and small areas of medium being see through as needed but can be flipped "off" for simple scatter areas or bombed out buildings. Heavy retains its "this should be solid but the physical model might have minuscule gaps not intended to be seen through" quality. Just don't make large flat areas of heavy like an idiot.

>>96363693
cadians should be imperial militia, but SA is close enough

>>96364265
Justice for Carab Cucked. Would this model be kosher for legacy? The assault cannons might raise some eyebrows

>>96363295
>with no obstruction in between
The abstraction is there is intervening scatter not psychically placed. So you can have ease of movement for models, but the concept that that all ruins are somehow four corners with completely empty space in the middle; They're collapsed buildings with junk and rubble all piled up.

>>96364140
>some retard decided that for same reason their best gun shoudl be their sidearm
That's on the account or plasma being AP (lmao) instead of rightful AP2 like plasma had always been, not so much on Saturnines themselves.
Though also wtf that flamer is full AP3 lol

>>96364291
it's really fucking weird, imagine if you had a praetor and their best weapon was actually their volkite serpenta

>>96364291
Plasma should nto be stock AP 2 becuase then it just ends up being the end all be all answer to fucking EVERYTHING.
At most It should be AP3 stock and breaching 5+

>>96363821
Damn really nice legio defensor (?) titans. Great to see a game played between two well-painted titanicus armies, but also bad because now I want to drop painting this sicaran and paint some warhounds or something instead. Curse you titanicus-anon!

If you receive a status on your turn, you still have a chance to clear it at your end phase right?

>>96364291
plasma was absolute dogshit until it all arbitrarily got AP2 in 3E, the edition where close combat was simplified into you're hit you're dead

for the 11 years before that the only plasma worth having was the heavy plasma gun and even that was nerfed by needing turns to recharge after firing, everything else was -2 (or -1) save mod, absolute dogshit given that flamers had -2 or -3 and fuckhueg templates and set shit on fire

is there anything else you'd like to see return from 3E? perhaps you'd like Nagashface Necrons and Deldar back? maybe you want BA to randomly have overcharged engines because apparently they lacked a gimmick before that?

>>96364430
So if you are effected by a weapon that CAN apply status you take a test to see if that status is applied at the end of the phase, so like pinning, panic, what ever.
If it is applied you cant attempt to remove it until the end of your turn.
At the start of your turn, there is usually equipment that gives you a chance to rmeove a status like a vox for example.

>>96362790
Blood Ravens are more likely from the gene stock of word bearers. Their presence on planets like Cyrene, Aurelia, and the dark apostle calling them brothers can't make this shit more obvious..
>inb4 much psykers
Lorgar was 2nd most powerful psyker among the primarchs, right after Magnus

>>96364416
His titans were dope. He made honor banners for them with freehand names with letters not even 1mm tall but as legible as a typewriter.
And then they were facing off against a reaver named Stripes.

>>96364441
I'm referring to stun from failing a charge or suppressed from warmonger, both self inflicted on your own turn. So it would be before the end phase where a status would normally check to clear.

>>96364495
I would need to know the exact situation there. if your warmonger dropped in, got stunned, you would get to try and remove that at the very end of your turn.
how did you get a stun from failing a charge?

>>96364499
>stun from failing a charge?
It's some sort of status check if you fail. I forget which.

>>96364503
Oh its specifically a warmonger thing? they yeah you would get to see if you break it.

>>96364265
ermm..!

>>96364504
No, it's a thing whenever you fail a charge. Read the charge procedure.

>>96364519
>>96364265
Can't find anything about an EC Leviathan, so I think anon might be Stupefied

>>96364522
I don't remember an EC Leviathan, just the Rylanor body for a Contemptor.

>>96364522
>>96364526
The joke is there's a (dumb) theory that the red scorpions are emperor's children successors

>>96362472
I thought Loyalty was it's own reward?

Jump Praetorian Command squads armed with combi volkites or Disintigrator rifles, yay or nay? Their 2+ would save them from overload but d rifles are kinda ass at S4. Would be hilarious to have a volkite Moritat with a charger squads though for firestorm. Same they can't have a rifle and melee weapon.

>>96363492
Vet HSS can only buy from the special weapons or heavy weapons lists, not the combi-weapons list, so neither is legal.

Do I swap the tiny mkII heads or not? Such an odd design choice

>>96364576
>Taking Dguns
The answer is no, D guns are kinda shit. i dont know why anyone would actually run them.
The only target they are good at, is other units that take D guns.

>>96364576
disintegrators are useless in 3E. Way too many points for a squad that does average damage but then also gets self-damage.
They'd have to either make it hit harder, do less self-damage or be cheaper, there's no justifying the trio.

>>96363535
what models are you going to use for the infantry? Steel Legion? Vostroyan with helmets

>>96364499
every time you fail a charge with any unit you must test or receive an immobilized status in 3rd edition. It has literally nothing to do with warmonger.

>>96364621
The old mk2 heads look stupid so I wouldn't personally

>>96364648
I quite like them, very iconic. Are you a 40k refugee?

>>96362811
Swap the head, correct wepons, pads and yeah it should work. Bonus point if you trim off the pointy trim.

>>96364269
But like they aren't though. Isn't that the whole thing with the Solar Auxilia, is that they are the best human defenders of the whole imperium, they aren't just churned out like Cadians. I could be misremembering old lore, I haven't read any of their 2.0 onwards stuff, as SA don't interest me as much as making a PDF or other sort of militia that would be seen in such a setting.

>>96362431 (OP)
Sisters, if they still had an army.

>IH Prime Advantage lets you turn a Leviathan into a challenge rapist
It's probably not very good, but the thought of it is hilarious. Has anyoen tried mathing it out? How does a levi fare against prateros/champions/centurions/etc?

>>96364335
At S7 (S6 for Saturnine), it doesn't threaten vehicles.
At D1, it barely even threatens terminators. It certainly doesn't threaten Automata, Dreads or Vehicles.
Any claim of an AP2 D1 weapon being too good is legit overreacting
>At most It should be AP3 stock and breaching 5+
Vehemently disagree. That's specifically Phased Plasma's job: Plasma that is safe at the cost of being weaker.

>>96364434
>maybe you want BA to randomly have overcharged engines because apparently they lacked a gimmick before that?
Probably? Even today Imperial Fists's entire flavour is a single rule found on Lyssander's old profile.
Everything else is garrison duty (PDF's duty), that they themselves either didn't actually do during the Crusade (ironically that was also IW), or didn't do alone in the Siege: 2/3 garrison was WS & BA, and it was Sanguinius, not Dorn, who defended Eternity Gate.

>>96364805
>How does a levi fare against prateros/champions/centurions/etc?

>>96364805
slow moving, low initiative, WS4, terrible for 225.
Solo dreads suffer big in challenge, the outside support rule will give the non-dread +2-8 initiative free since it punishes solo models hard.
So by challenging the enemy, their powerfist or whatever gets a big initiative bonus they wouldn't normally have + if they win focus they get +1 extra powerfist attack free.
They'll typically smash the dreadnought with 3s to hit and dreadnought needs 5s to hit. That means with 5 attacks the dread often misses all but 1-2. If the enemy character has a 4++ it's very likely the dread does 0 wounds the entire round.

>>96364805

An Archmagos or Terminator/EW Praetor can survive a stray hit, so they'll probably slap it around with Finishing Blow and collect a free 250pts, any 4W or lesser HQ is running a decent chance per round of taking a single hit from the dual drills and exploding into jam, even if they have good odds of killing it in two or three rounds and don't take much damage going by average wounds dealt. A bit of a meme tactic for the price, but extremely funny, flip those coins.

If I'm calculating this correctly, a WS5+ 5++ takes a hit 55% of the time, 4++ 45% and 3++ (basically the effect of 4++ and FNP 5+, common to Archmagi) 32%.

>>96364805
the real problem for dreads is if they're solo, the double-cheerleader-bonus against solo dreads can be so big a Praetor's Finishing Blow penalty wouldn't actually lose initiative and he smashes the dreadnought with +1A +1S +1DMG going first even with a thunderhammer/pfist/cfist. It's likely that even basic thunderhammer (WS6 6A S8 Dmg3) puts 6 of the 7 wounds on leviathan immediately.
And if you were to even squish him afterwards, you'll be at -6 focus from wounds and then -4-6 from being outnumbered if you get in another challenge, so enemy has 100% chance of going first and insta-killing lev in the 2nd duel he gets into. (Hell, even just suffering the 3 wounds would make lev auto strike last)

>>96364857
>>96364866
>>96364903
>>96364940
That's fun. So you're essentially forcing your opponent to play russian roulette with you. Question then becomes, how likely is a TH praetor to kill you back before they fail that save. I assume a paragon blade champion hates the situation, but now that THs are lower str maybe it works in the Levi's favor

You know, I completely overlooked this thing in previous editions because it was mostly a very cool paperweight, but it's damn near unkillable now unless your enemy has a Shadowsword or a couple of Cerberoi lined up. Can't be locked in combat because of Unstoppable, so it just kind of wanders around firing two giant large blasts a round, panicking things and chewing on tanks, I guess? Certainly funny if it just walks through a volley of Kratos meltas and hugs it to death with the big claws.

No split fire is a mild pain, but what are the terminators it can't easily eat going to do, chip two wounds off it?

>Go to old LGS for the first time since came back home from overseas
>Expecting there to be a Heresy scene cause they sell crap loads of Heresy stuff out of there and remember people playing it back when I used to go there
>"Nah we haven't had anyone come in to play since 2.0 dropped"
>Well I guess I'm interested in Infinity so ask how that's doing
>"No one plays it here anymore, the regulars that used to love it dropped it and split apart when covid hit"
>What DO people play here
>"40k, board games and Magic"
I'm in hell

>>96365004
>sample image

>>96364958

Without outside support I think thunder hammer praetor probably wins - average output with Finishing Blow is 4 wounds, so you die in two rounds, likely before getting to make your second set of swings and up your chances of killing the praetor to 70% over those eight attacks. Basically, flip a coin - you win 45% of the time in round 1 and sometimes he rolls somwhat below average, damages you only two or three times rather than four and you get to punch him again.

>met the other long HH (3.0) nerd at the LGS
IT'S HAPPENING

Did they……

>>96365021
the big problem is leviathan isn't jumping out of a rhino or landraider, so it gets shot and loses 3 or 4 wounds before it goes over into melee, suddenly it never lives to round 2 it just always is at initiative 1 with no outside support and the enemy instantly smashes it into the floor.

>>96365030
how do you decide who tops and who bottoms?

>>96365046
Whoever has the most Night Lords models is the bottom

>>96363535
The Dracos pretty strong so this should work pretty well, only problem is IMO you've brought too much anti tank, 7 demolishers will flatten even a spartan in a single shooting phase but if you fight an infantry focused list your kinda fucked.

>>96363693
You could just call them one of the old terran 100 and run them as Sol Aux. That would work.

>>96363535
What are you going to do against massed marine infantry?

You have a metric assload of AT, but a simple wave of tqcs/vets will likely give you problems - they might struggle against armour, but they'll wipe your infantry and hold objectives better

If I wanted to build an army that was playable and not terrible across all three editions, what's a good Legion to go with?

>>96365021
>>96365040
If you take the claws you're at I4, and you're probably always seizing. Remember enemy praetor is probably heavy, wielding a slow weapon, and likely only has a 5 termie retinue to back him up, so it's only a +1 from outside support, assuming the squad is completely fresh. It doesn't seem that hopeless for the dread

im thinking of getting into legions imperialis with iron warriors. there is a breatheren of iron detachment that can let me bring le funny automatons. is LI going to get the rest of the hh range with different armour types or is it dead in the water like titanicus. people cant seem to make up their mind

>>96365191
Alpha Legion. Been good in all three editions.
>Flexible legion trait/infiltrate shenanigans in 1.0
>Legion trait adding 2" distance in 2.0 and 3.0 that is low key broken when utilised well
>Can just steal whatever the best unit is from other legions in all three edition.

>>96365196
Legion banner adds 6 models to outside support.

Resources for SA background fluff?

>>96365235
Black books.

>>96362431 (OP)
working on my shield captain

>>96365261
This is probably bait, but I gotta say it looks great

>>96365261
The worst thing is the random hairs covering that model, disgusting.

>>96365175
They won't struggle against armour when they all have Krak grenades, they'll rape any russ they get into melee with because tanks are all WS1 and hit rear armour.

10 tactical marines are hitting your ass on a 2+, glancing on 4s and penetrating on a 5+ with D2 attacks.

Malcadors can tank it because rear armour 11 but Russes are acutely vulnerable to getting murdered by krak grenades in melee.

>>96365268
If you are driving your AT tanks into infantry, sure.

>>96365196
every part of that is wrong
leviathan dread is heavy so it's at -1 initiative, and praetor isn't heavy, and even terminator praetor can just take tartaros which is still 4++ without being heavy type.
outside support against solo dreadnoughts is always doubled so +2 instead of +1, and +4 with a 10man escort squad, +8 focus if joining 20.
leviathan waddling over probably suffered at minimum 2 wounds, more likely 3-4, but at even 2 he's now to
Just heavy and wounds puts it at -3 initiative before outside support (initiative 1 with dread claws)

Once you add even just a 5man of outside support, the initiative 5 tartaros praetor with thunderhammer is focus 5 base, -2 for hammer, +2 for outside support, 5 vs 1, always goes first. Pfist is 4 vs 1, that's always dread going last.

Dread's only hope is that it slowly waddles with 0 things ever shooting it and the enemy never bringing any cheerleaders at all. In 100% of other situations, it goes last.

>>96365324
*oh and as someone said, the standard adding 6 more models which gives 2 more initiative against a solo dreadnought, so even powerfist is esssentially guaranteed to go first every time, and even if dread isnt wounded

>>96365021
You're only gonna get finishing blow from turn 2 onwards, turn 1 the Leviathan is gonna feint you to deny finishing blow because they gain zero benefit from the other core rulebook gambits.

>>96365352
that only ever happens if the dreadnought got off the charge, otherwise he declares gambit second on round 1, then because he took 3-6 wounds second on round 2 and losing 3-6 more, and if round 3 comes, the praetor probably just uses Seize if dread is on 1 wound to guarantee it dies without any round 3 swings.

>>96365352
if the dread uses feint it also gets assraped just as hard or harder. Dread gets no initiative bonus at all, keeps all initiative penalties, and enemy then gets to Grandstand with double bonus against the lone dread.
If you have a basic 5 cheerleaders and a standard, that's +4 focus bonus against a solo model. That's +4 attacks with a powerfist against the feinting dreadnought for 9x dmg2 attacks hitting on 3s.

And if anyone shot the dreadnought beforehand, with -1 initiative for being Heavy combined with -1 for every wound, it's possible the dreadnought charges, casts Feint on finishing, then still risks losing the focus roll and the enemy actually striking first with 10 attacks with thunderhammer/pfist/cfist still at WS6 vs WS4.

Grandstanding is such a fuckibg retarded concept.
The whole point of challenges seems to be to pull 2 characters out of a group fight into a 1v1 duel, hence removing spill over damage... but grandstand brings everyone else back in?
What the fuck is the point?

>>96365439
You never seen Gladiator? Are you not entertained?

>>96365403
>>96365422
Right, theres no universe where a Praetor has a power fist or a chain fist because those weapons are garbage for 95% of praetor fights, he's using a thunderhammer.

10 WS6 thunderhammers into a Leviathan work out to 4 wounds, even if the Leviathan is already injured he's probably gonna survive that.

In return the Leviathan is gonna slap him back 5 times, score about a single wound and force the coin flip of doom.

Unless its a Praetor wearing terminator armour which will just feed the challenge Leviathan its own face, especially if its a saturnine Praetor.

That said, cheerleader advantage works off of allied models in general and not specifically models sharing a unit. If you're committed to throwing a Leviathan into your opponents Praetor its probably pretty easy to throw a tactical squad at them too, that dramatically reduces the cheerleader bonus and lets the Leviathan tank 2 rounds instead of 1 due to no grandstand nonsense.

Turn 1 Leviathan feints. Turn 2 he just fucking grandstands himself because he may as well, he's dead if this doesn't work out anyway.

Is it good? Only if you can somehow get a undamaged Leviathan to successfully charge a power armoured Praetor which is literally never gonna happen.

>>96364099
>Surely they would just stop militia rules if they were to make them so bad to be less playable then 2.0...
Look at daemons in 2.0, there is no stopping line for how far down they can go.

>>96365199
It might, eventually, but right now it looks like they are focusing on bring out different units rather than cosmetic stuff. Which is dumb because I wouldn't have minded getting some infantry boxes if the infantry didn't look like stretched blobs.

Anyone know where I can hunt down Legions Imperialis books?.

>>96365563
https://gofile.io/d/tjFJmy
Here

>>96365578
Where would you like me to kiss you?
and thank you

>>96365004
>"40k, board games and Magic"
my LGS in a nutshell
NOBODY wants to play anything but current update 40k, like it's a "we inly do what gw says so" mentality

>>96365588
>Where would you like me to kiss you?
Surprise me

>>96365530
They're just moving really fast.

>in the local group of 6 or so players, not a single marine player has even one jump pack unit
Not sure how this happened

>>96365627
I can't imagine not using at least twenty assault marines every game.

>>96365627
Assault marines haven't been that great in the other 2 editions even if you took their RoW.

>>96365627
>Jump pack units were shit besides a few exceptions in 1.0
>Only resin models until plastic Mk VI assault marines (which look garbage)
>Most people never understand how strong high mobility actually is

which do you guys think is better this edition, 2+/4++ or 2+/5++/5+++

>>96365635
???
Uwotm8?

>>96363298
>b-but i must run ugly tank spam and crowd the table with vehicle models! Wahhhh!!!

Cry harder.

>>96365686
A 5++ and a 5+++ are slightly better than a 4++

Hang on, is upgrading the weapons on vanilla termies a trap? They want to be mulching line units, they're only WS4, and giving them all a fist/hammer increases the unit's points cost by 33%

>>96365627
I don't know why they stopped doing flight stands for them so they don't all just stand on the ground.

>>96365890
You still want things like power fists. Terminator squads are prime targets for command squads and similar WS 5 elites, they will hunt them down and charge. You need a thunder hammer or something for the few hits your terminators can land to count.

>>96365793
Auxilia infantry is extremely cheap, they need tanks to act as points sinks to reach 3k.

Unless you're up to play against a list with 400 lasrifles and a stormhammer I guess.

>>96365905
But the lightning claws look cooler...

>>96365925
Okay, then expand aforementioned hypothetical rule to 33% of points being the maximum for tanks and superheavies. And ONLY for auxilia, everything else would have the 25% limit. So in a 3000 point list, an auxilia player would still need to take a minimum of 2000 points of non-tank units. Walkers are included in "non-tank units," as well as things like rapiers and land speeders (if GW ever makes solar auxilia land speeders).

>>96365905
Thats pointless. WS5 elites hunting terminators will also be bringing fists and hammers except they hit on 3s with 3 attacks per model and you hit on 5s with 2 attacks per model.

Fists make you more expensive and do nothing to help you fight your real targets. All you need are Mauls.

>>96365940
But lightning claws look cooler!!!!

>>96365936
I'd be fine with that as a compromise. Aux sentinels are cool anyway.

>>96365955
If you want claws take claws, they do look cooler.

>>96365926
You still take lightning claws, but only on one or two models. That's more than enough to deal with MEQ.

>>96365940
It's the difference between removing your terminators with them having accomplished nothing, or them having killed at least a couple of melee elites allowing other units to kill the remainder more easy.

Look, there is nothing wrong with sticking to basic power weapons with standard terminators. But power fists do make them more flexible against anything that isn't MEQ Good luck trying to kill some castellax with power mauls in a timely fashion you won't always be able to have your terminators be in ideal situations. Any plan dies on first contact with the enemy and all that.

>>96365892
Am I misremembering things or did HH never have assault marines on flight stands?

>>96365967
Probably not. They did flight stands for those Blood Angel Destroyers and I just want any of the jump troops to not have both feet planted in a squat.

>>96365967
Thankfully not. Every instance of assault marines on flying stands has looked like complete shit.

>>96365964
5 maul terminators kill a little less than 1 Castellax per fight phase which really isn't all that bad since the castellax aren't doing shit in return.

>>96365983
Castellax cannot be routed, so that means your terminators will be stuck in melee against a unit of 3-4 castellax for the whole game.

>>96366006
You get 2 fight phases a battle round, It'll only take em 4 phases to chew through their points in Castellax, during which time they'll lose a single terminator. I'm alright with that honestly.

I'm planning on footslogging 4 squads of 5 tartaros in my army for 3.0, spending 2-3 turns punching castellax is one of the better outcomes for those poor bastards.

SA anons...how do I go about making a list?

the tercios confuse me slightly, should most of my stuff be in tercios?

>>96365967
always has

>>96366022
>Footslogging 20 tartaros
Oof, even with the more restrictive LOS rules that's still rough. Also because you still need LOS in HH in order to declare a charge, already had tactical squads shimmy behind a ruin with a movement reaction to prevent charges.

According to Rick Priestley, the Ultramarines are traitors.

>>96366080
>According to Rick Priestley, the Ultramarines are traitors.

Source/context for this?

>>96366088
White Dwarf 97, published in 1988.

>>96366080
I thought the whole Imperium Secundus arc has firmly established this as well.

>>96366080
Do any good remakes of RT-style marines exist

>>96366166
Tortuga make the heads

>>96366063
Right so broadly a tactical command section is a centurion equivalent, the legatine command section is your praetor and the other command choices are consuls.

Each consul can take 1 terico instead of a standard aux detachment and absolutely should, if you want a generic aux detachment you take a tac section.

Every cohort doctrine buffs an associated command section which let's it take 2 of its associated terico instead of one. When you pick your doctrine you want at least 2 of its command section so you can spam your associated terico, that gets you you some good stuff.

You don't have to max out every terico, just pick what you want out of it.

>>96366186
ok I see, so if I take an artillery cohort, an artillery section gets 2 artillery tercio detachments

but, surely because i'll have 2 groups of artillery (e.g each detachment has 2 medusa's and a rapier) , if I took a 2nd artillery section (to grant the scatter buff to the medusa's in the 2nd group), wouldnt I be better off taking the generic 4x light+ 4x heavy transport detachment for dracosans via that 2nd artillery section?

>>96365964

I still say Thunderhammers are 5 points undercosted. +3 Str vs +4 Str doesn't really matter much for anything except Vehicles and Dreadnaughts, for the vast majority of things you'll be facing that AP2 and reduced I penalty easily puts it on par with the other two of the classic Terminator Trinty of Powerfist, Chainfist and Thunderhammer (with dual Lightning Claws as the Pope)
Personally, I'd probably either make the Hammer 20pts or put it's Initiative penalty at the same as the Fists if it's going to stay at 15pts. It's still the most cost effective way to kill AP2, but it's not so far and away the best option.

I'd also make Chainfists D3 instead of D2 and Shred. The ONLY thing D3 matters to are Vehicles and Dreadnaughts which is as it should be.

>300pts
>14/13/12
>12 HP
>super heavy
>twin vanquisher is 2 shots S10 AP2 D3 heavy D (its super heavy so always gonna be D4) critical hit 6+

worth considering? downside is BS3 and you're gonna have a million demolisher dracosans for anti tank anyway

>>96366109
It does, establishing another imperium and emperor is actual treason. Hard stop, no "but he thought emps dead" bs. He suspected it could be true but didn't confirm so he took the opportunity.

>>96366239
the alternate is the twin battlecannon which is the same as the one on the stormhammer (2 shots 3" blast S8 AP4 D2 heavy AP so always AP3)
or the twin avenger bolt cannon which is 10 shots S6 AP3 D1 suppressive 2

>>96366257
Yes, and this is why it's perfectly fine for loyalist forces to murder the shit out of ultramarines on the table. NEVER ALLY WITH ULTRAMARINE PLAYERS, GUILLIMAN IS JUST AS MUCH OF A TRAITOR AS HORUS.

>>96364631
>>96364637
Rifles should be S5 and blasters assault. There's no reason to take either. Blasters are always options for units that can take heavy.

>>96366226
You still only get 1 selection per artillery command, you just get 2 artillery tericos if you select them instead of 1.

If you want more transports take a tactical command, or just take a line command and grab an infantry terico.

The second command section is for redundancy more than anything else, its pretty easy to kill all but the armoured command section so you want a back up for the buff.

Stick your infantry commanders in arvus lighters or dracosans to keep them from getting alpha struck off the board, you can put the sentinels in outflank. Just give the armoured commander a flare shield and he'll bounce most things off of his AV14.

>>96366239
I love the Macharius so much but it just doesn't work with how limited super heavy slots are.

>>96366239
Giving up giant killer is a major downside to all LoWs and should be taken into consideration

>>96366088
nta but he's talking about some cope Priestley was spouting about how the smurfs sat out the heresy playing at making their own empire. It's literally never been true, I don't even think that they were properly a first founding legion when the first HH fluff was written.

It might have been on social media (most of the bad takes from founding Warhammer staff are), but I honestly don't care enough to go digging for it.

New 'toss
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/raonxeh6/the-dropsite-massacre-a-new-perspective-in-the-latest-black-library-novel/

Are traitors played more than loyalists, or is it the reverse?

>>96366348
Interesting really, there are a few events that we know in high detail, that get a book or more to cover it, but it is quite funny really that the DSM is only covered a tiny bit in Fulgrim and misses out a lot of stuff. Not sure how I feel about them going back and revisiting battles if they're just going to be bolter porn though.

>>96366348
Hopefully the drop site massacre actually feels like a massacre.
>John Fr*nch
Bugger.

>>96366382
I like his Ahriman novels, and apparently he wrote a decent chunk of the fluff in the black books alongside Bligh

>>96366384
True, the fists aren't actually at the massacre, they might actually show the battle that shattered three legions.

>>96366348
Oh boy, I cant wait to see inexplicable loyalist victories in the dropside massacre. I wonder if the plucky under-officer will lead a stunning and brave breakout that saves his company while his superior officer/elders hold off the heretics in one doomed but incredibly devastating last stand...

>>96366420
In fairness those are canon, theres a reason the legions were merely shattered and not destroyed wholesale.

Still though I'll be very annoyed if thats all that happens in the book, the second waves opening salvo should be apocalyptic in scope.

>>96366348
Man, those Araknae Quad Accelerator Platforms™ really showed those loyalist Saturnine Terminators™ a thing or two!

>>96366104
Okay but that literally says that the Ultramarines aren't traitors, the previous XIII legion are.

>>96366420
It's time to start killing loyalist fans.

>>96366420
I guess the real Drop Site Massacre was the friends we made along the way.

>>96366348
Spoiler alert: Dorn knowingly sent them to their deaths

>>96366481
You mean secondaries, right?

>>96366286
I think you misunderstood but thats my fault as I explained it badly

artillery command #1 takes 2 artillery tercio detachments as the list is running artillery cohorts which allows him take a 2nd artillery detachment
said detachments are filled with 2 medusa's and a rapier each (as an example) with one detachment being labelled A and the other B
then I take a second artillery command (artillery command #2) who instead of taking an artillery tercio detachment, takes a generic one (as he is still a command slot) as he only gets 1 detachment as he isnt taking an artillery tercio, so he takes the detachment that will allow a bunch of dracosans
artillery command #1 hangs around with models in artillery detachment A to grant them his scatter buff, while artillery command #2 hands around with artillery detachment B to grant him his buff too

>>96366266
>twin avenger bolt cannon
What have they done to my vulcan mega-bolter?!

>>96366572
I don't think it's had a vulcan mega bolter for YEARS

>>96366517
Thats far too interesting a concept for them to make it actually canon

Do I want to give SA Lifewards melee weapons?

How far can I take 3rd party bits for decorating salamanders? They tend to care for their gear and work on them constantly. Is this too far for 30k?

>>96366745
Forgot image

>>96366754
I think those pieces are just too chunky, yea.

>>96366740
It's in the Heresy 3.0 trailer

>>96366420
>T. Buckbroken traitor
You still angy you irreparably fucked up the heresy in the opening hours?

>>96365627
Jump pack, jetbikes, land speeders, and flyers are for FAGGOTS and puts you on the same level as a primaris bits user

>>96366754
Some of those do work but you need to pick carefully and try not to overbling your model unless its like your character models.

>finally got my red 1.0 legion army list
>it's even taller than any of my previous rulebooks, codexes and such
>have to rearrange my shelf to make room for it
But at least it's one more for the collection.

>>96366767
>>96366845
Okay so this is far more acceptable for sergeants or officers? Standard issue for the grunts?

>>96366817
>got outplayed and raped by a WS chad

>>96366878
The red books?

most vanilla traitor legion that isn't sons of horus, iron warriors, word bearers, alpha legion or death guard?

>>96366348
The Iron Hand is aura farming in the background.

>>96366886
Anon, don't be a moron. "Who out of Night Lords, Thousand Sons, Emperor's Children and World Eaters is the most vanilla?" is a fucking stupid question

>>96366890
lanklets

>>96366886
Uhhh...world eaters are actually kind of vanilla during the heresy

Silly question lads, are any LoW actually decent for Marines this edition?
I've been looking at a Mastodon for a while...

>>96366903
How is that a stupid question??? I can't play a legion that's already being played at my LGS! And I refuse to play as loyalist scum! Only normies play loyalists

>>96366519
Yeah that absolutely works, the ordinance masters rule just checks to see if a unit is from an artillery terico, not whether or not its one of their artillery tericos.

>>96366904
They're Tortuga proxies, don't tell James.

>>96366879
When I make Sallie grunts, I usually dont give them much except sprinkle in a pauldron/helmet/scale bit amongst 2-3 grunts (Depends on the size of the squad) . sgts usually get the better treatment, scale, helmet, pauldron and if I'm feeling fancy a torch (whatever those things are called) on their powerpack. But remember, its YOUR dudes. Some anon isn't the boss of your gym.

>>96366923
Play traitors from a loyalist legion. Dumbass.

I finished my super saturnine. That's it for the three terminators I bought.

>>96366958
Lean the torso back, remove the arms and replace them with the weapons up top and you got yourself a dorito terminator.

>>96366968
A cyclone missile launcher sits on the top with a bit of scraping and filing too.

>>96366923
It's a stupid question because they're as agnostic or vanilla as you play them. If you want to take all the flavour out of the Legion then that's your bullshit.

>>96362811
Yeah they can work pretty well for SoH veterans. I remember seeing someone using the new Berserkers for Rampagers

>>96367023
are there any more photos of these guys? I recall seeing them before

>>96367018
Actually, I'm going to carry on ranting at you. "Which is the most vanilla out of these very un-vanilla Legions?" is also fucking dumb, even IF you can run them plain and boring. Sucking all the flavour out of unique factions is pointless. "How can I make World Eaters just play like Ultramarines or Iron Warriors" is fucking inane and will just result in you having white or purple generic dollies without any character.

That being said, very, VERY early EC are probably the most "vanilla" out of the Legions you didn't list.

>>96367033
I don't have more of this guy. But I think I follow him on instagram, he had a consul with those reavers in other pic I think

>>96366886
Any legion is vanilla if you use nothing but tactical marines supported by predator tanks.

>Black Library book and Journal Tactica™ will offer the most comprehensive look at the Dropsite Massacre® yet

Did FW/GSG not remember the black book(s) or is this memory-holing like the comic book movies did?

>>96366348
>>96366890
why do they look like pr*mar*s?

>>96367100
Because they're not squat and bowlegged.

>>96367096
They're not allowed to mention out-of-production product unless it's to announce a made to order run.

>>96367096
There's always more to explore. There were tens of thousands of marines fighting there, we don't even know the names and ranks of a fraction of them, let alone whether or not they took a shit before dropping in from orbit.

>>96367138
This.
GW is literally trying to replace everything they once made and pretend it does not exist anymore so they can resell you a shitty version of it for 2x the price.

So playing Iron Hands without any immortals or gorgon termies should be punishable by death, right?

So what's in the tactica journal?

>>96367152
No. Playing a legion without using its special snowflake units is kino, SOVL, and the old and proper way to play HH.
Thinking you HAVE to use a legion's special characters, wargear and units is 40k refugee mindset, and should be gatekept.

>>96363535
Anon, I just want you know that I appreciate your effort with this. TO&E and the like drawn from real-world military history lends an amazing and wonderful authenticity to a force. It's what everyone should strive to do. I was slightly disappointed to be at my LGS yesterday and hear people talk about HH. It's something that I had wanted for a long time. But when it's over "what to take" and what's good and not good, explained by a 40k tournament player, it brought down my mood.

>>96367168
>I should play my legion as vanilla as possible for the most bland and soulless gaming experience possible. All legions should play the same way

What the fuck is wrong with you?

>>96367161
Hogwash and nonsense

>>96367170
>But when it's over "what to take" and what's good and not good, explained by a 40k tournament player, it brought down my mood.

Why don't you kill him?

>>96367177
Is the scans out already? I'll find them myself but I'd rather not look for something that doesn't exist

>>96364265
>Carab Culled

>>96366743
Pls respond

>>96367171
Back in the day the legion or chapter of marines you played only decided what colour you had to paint your models. The real SOVL of a legion comes from you making choices that reflects their mindset in game, not from meekly following the rules daddy GW has told you.

>>96366740
it's already canon. Dorn already knew some of the legions he sent were traitors, he just didn't know which ones and so thought this would be the best way to find out. I think he underestimated how many would turn though

>>96366754
What is that large piece with all the exhausts on the right? Under the shields

>>96367096
Clearly GW is going to give the entire roll-call of the battle that's so detailed it gets down to how many rounds was each legionnaire carrying. This is going to be followed by a series of 2 page spreads maps for each day of the dripsite massacre that display where each unit was positioned and where it moved with infoboxes on who attacked who. We're also getting ligma style company pics for everyone so you can cross reference those with the roll call. Then we're getting the history of the battle followed by the history of each faction involved, with in-setting style interviews for both. We'll also get special characters starting from each sargeant and reaching primarchs, who will get period specific rules. Following that it's what from before 3.0 we knew as rites of war which are now called formations, there will be 10 generic ones and 3 legion specific ones. After feedback from the community now the book is going to feature at least 5 legion specific units for each legion that fought on Isstvan 5. We'll get Isstvan 5 specific missions + terrain pieces and an entire campaign system to play as survivors of the massacre like the old victory is venegance. LIgma will also get a companion book.

>>96367201
Are you arguing that all armies play the same list? What the fuck? This isn't chain of command

Did the Ultramarines adopt the red helmets before the Heresy was over? Or does one of the books explain that and I just need to keep reading?

>>96367096

Where DO we get scans of the Black Books these days anyhow?

>>96367221
Have you opened the legion libers even once? You're sounding like a real 40k refugee/tourist right now.

>>96367246
It's the sanctioned thing. Guys like Thiel that were thinking things they shouldn't have in the UM got the red helmet kinda like the old dunce caps.

>>96367269
I was aware of the origins, I was wondering if they adopted it as the sergeant’s helmet after Calth and were on their way to Tera.

>>96367302
If you trust BL sure.

>>96367194
Literally in the OP you tard

>>96367331
Nigger the OP doesn't say "tactica journal".
I asked if they were out, not where to find them.
Mongoloid.

>>96367352
There's approx 3 links in the OP that might contain it so get clicking zoom zoom

>>96367384
>Hey guys, is the thing out?
>like literally go check the links you idiot

You know the only funny part in your shitanigans is that if you actually knew if the book was in the links you'd have just said
>yes
And saved us both having to deal with your socially inept self.

>>96362625
>>96363034
Yeah.

>>96367419
And you would have saved yourself from asking the question you, lazy faggot, if you just clicked instead of asking to be spoon fed.

>>96367456
>Go to forum
>ask question
>"just google"
>"just check"
Yet calls me lazy?
You're not socially inept, you're down right retarded and anti-social

>>96367465
read nigga

>>96367465
>go to general with all information on the top
>ignores and drools all over the thread
>"durrr ur just antisocial"
if i'm social inept, you're illiterate and incompetent.

>>96367468
Oh you're one of those who want others to change so they don't have to be better people.
Have fun with yourself, no more (you)s

>>96367465
Does mommy still have to change your diaper as well? You know, in between all the spoon feeding.

BATTLE BROTHERS!!! I NEED MY ASS RAPED!!!!

>>96367194
Yep, it's out.

>>96367514
BROTHER I AM PINNED HERE

Three guesses as to which is his fapping hand, first two don't count

>>96367170
Thanks anon, I really need that this morning

>>96363411
The DA trait doesn't work in failed combats, anon. I'm going to pretend it does, but GW should fix it

I wish the IW trait was worse. Then everyone would notice all their rules are shit, except for that one hammer

>>96367755
Try it. It will almost never trigger even in failed combats

>>96367782
You don't think losing a combat by 5 resolution will be a common occurrence? :^)
Yeah oof it'll be shite. Imagine having a trait that doesn't help you kill the enemy better or even makes you harder to kill. It merely makes you brave. Your guys still die, but their corpses get to keep a brave face on the floor.

>>96367585
The hand on the tentacle growing out of his left butt cheek

The builds are continuing. Interestingly all attempts to photo my paint test for this Alpha Legion all ended up weirdly blurry.

>>96367847
It's the 2" of extra distance that the camera doesn't account for.

>>96367862

Makes sense. Also... does that rule make AL a nightmare to actually successfully charge against? Like, the average dice roll on 2D6 pick the highest is 5 usually, right? So now you have to get so close just to be sure you can charge. That said, it's shame that Shroud Bombs are gone. Those were hilarious.

>>96367847
Recon squad? Great job anon. ACtually, how do you depict Kraken Bolters for seekers?

>>96367876
yes, but keep in mind you can still just touch tips with the set up move and dodge all that

>>96367890
Just slap a scope on a bolter, done.

Do you think we can judge by the vet breacher squads having 4x special weapons per 10 guys that it'll be a 10 man upgrade sprue with 2 lascutters and 2 melta guns

>>96367890
40k termie bolter boxes

>>96368009
It's in the legacy rules, there won't be an upgrade sprue any time soon.

I'm still baffled by the veteran breachers, veteran support and siege tartaros being added in the legacies rules. Those are entirely new units, veteran supports can even spam the new heavy disintegrator weapons. It's awfully nice of GW, and GW doing anything nice makes me highly suspicious.

>>96368036
I'm glad that Destroyers can now toss AP3 rad grenades, but I just can't believe the Heavy Disintegrators are available to vets instead of them.
If anyone should wield the gun that kills the wielder, that should be Destroyers. And those guys don't really survive to see veterancy

>>96367825
The WB trait is replicated by a piece of generic wargear any legion can buy but its still better than what DA are rocking right now.

Still wish I had an auxiliary detachment tho. I think WB are gonna be the worst legion in the game until the daemon list gets released and we get the other half of our army.

>>96366298

Reject superheavy vehicle, embrace Brass Scorpion of Khorne. If the enemy score Giant Killer off that thing they deserve it.

>>96368139
what is that pic? a Decepticon?

>>96368009
Meltaguns arent an option in the liber, so no. 10 shields/bolters, 2 lascutters, some pistols, maybe a melee weapon like a hammer or maul, then grenades and bits.

>>96368121
Destroyers still got disintegrator rifles to kill themselves with. Destroyers also aren't really a heavy weapons squad, even the heavy weapons they've always had access to have had suspensor webs to keep them mobile.

A heavy destroyer squad could have been fun though.

>>96368139
Do vexillas stack?

>>96368147
Its fan art of Patriot, he's one of the antagonists in a gacha called arknights, imagine a slavic wendigo in a suit of power armour.

He's my fav character in the game honestly, I barely play it anymore but I still love his design.

>>96368245
If it's different units yes they do. Not when in the same unit though, but you can stack a centurion with vexilla and a company/legion standard in one unit.

>>96368201
Yeah one in five. They are putting a S4 AP3 gun to compete against the Rad Missile Launcher lmao. Let Destroyers swap both pistols for a base Disintegrator, and let one in five take a Heavy Disintegrator
>A heavy destroyer squad could have been fun though.
That could totally be the foot-based Mortalis Destroyer squad. Assault Destroyers get to fly, Mortalis ones get to, say, all buy a Destroyer Blaster.

>>96367847
>Go forth, my inductii, and heresy to the extreme!

>>96368279
I'm just gonna say my veterans with disintegrator blasters are destroyers. It's not like they would be chucking rad grenades when they can instead kill themselves firing disintegrator blasters, lol.

>>96368245
Only if they're different units as >>96368273 said, though they do also stack with the WB trait which has a lot of funny interactions.

You can give your dudes +2 to combat resolution just for existing and add a Vex cent for a Further +1 testing on the centurions LD, that unit will stick around in all but the most suicidal combats until someone snipes the Cent.

>>96368279
No. If you're going to do that just delete destroyers.

>>96367188
Killing 40k tourneyplebs is an act of self defense, but I don't think that would hold up in court.

>>96368279
I honestly expected the Mortalis squad to have a blaster. But nope, so now that the rad missile are just two single shots I use the blaster to represent it and call it a tad blaster.

>>96368358
>just delete destroyers
GW tried to!

>>96368368
*Rad Blaster fucking phone

>>96368325
>WB command squad with banner and vexilla cent
>Need to kill 4 dudes more just to draw the combat
That actually sounds obnoxious as hell.

>>96367246
>>96367302
No, the UM didn't adopt the red helmet until after the HH and the codex.
Thiel has a plotline after Know No Fear were he eventually leads a group of censured vets like him, the "Red Marked", against traitor infiltrators during the Shadow Crusade.
The HH version of the Dirty Dozen.

>>96368141
I am thinking about this after anon posted about it last night. Not sure what I would cut yet, but it would be hilarious now that they're good.

Of course you can't buy them from FW at the moment. Ebay guy in Spain has two, already painted; I'll take the red one

>>96368387
Only the WB would get a trait that let's them claim victory regardless of how hard you fuck them in melee, 20 despoilers and a vex cent are actually just playing hidden power claw until someone challenges him.

>>96368396
Neat. I wanted to paint some beakies with red helmeted Sergeants to represent a post-Calth “We’re coming to get you,” force, but I suppose it’d make more sense to make a more elite unit to represent that then.

>>96368457
>WB claiming victory even when they've lost
When you put it like that the WB legion trait makes a lot of sense actually.

>>96368141
TRVE

>>96368493
>a post-Calth “We’re coming to get you,” force
if you want to use beakies, maybe RT-style UM beakies with black backpacks and vet white stripes in the helmets would be a good idea.
The lack of trim, non standard healdry, and darker paint scheme would channel better "No more Mr nice guys" UM

I got a bunch of HH combi flamers, but I don't know what to do with them.
What units are interesting with them, or can use those more effectively?
Bonus point if they're not Salamanders

>Status effects make units attack at initiative 1 in close combat
>Heavy flamers have Panic 2
Wait, are.... are heavy flamers in terminators squads.... meta?!

>>96368696
Anything that's going to charge will want to throw a Panic test to see if the target unit gains the Routed status (but won't yet Fall back move). Charge distances are tiny enough that they might be in range for it. At 1, Panic 1 is pretty much the same as Cool test (0)

>>96368493
Here's the audiodrama if you're interested:
https://gofile.io/d/qVuR97

>>96368723
I dont think you can apply status during volley fire.

>>96368776
That's why you do it in the shooting phase, you silly sausage.

>>96368776

You can't, but you can move up to them, flame them, gravgun them and then volley + charge after they make those two tests. Shame you can't give Magi more than one pick from their Ranged Weapon list, or they'd be able to force them to roll for both on their own.

>>96368430

I am considering converting some form of Ordo Reductor horror, but I suppose the standard big scorpion would go quite well for my Sons of Horus as well.

Am I missing something? I don't get way everyone is dumpstering ordo reductor +1 str vs any vehicle that didn't move seems huge and an easy condition to satisfy given how many grav guns mech can take to force pinning + how many vehicles want to stand still for their heavy/ordnance benefits in general.

>>96367211
I think that is a shield to be honest.

Is Sword and Board good for EC Praetorian Command?

>>96368889
Power swords aren't good on anything. Combat shields are useful though.

>>96368889
Swords suck, im afraid
>Swords are the worst power weapon
>Swords look the coolest
Truly we live in a clown world

Are Sabres any good? What about the missile one?
They just looks so cute and I like the missile one.

>>96368835
>>96368667
Isn't the scorpion pure ass this edition? It's a cool model but it seems mid as hell

>>96368889
Better off giving them fists or hammers.
Swords are shit.
Axes are OK
Maces are still why do these exist?

>>96368947
Maces are better against MEQ than all the other options, and are probably not that far behind on termies given their T5

>>96368947
Maces are the best power weapon, that doesn't cost you a shield, because why bother with axes when you can get a thunder hammer for 5 points more. Both are outclassed by twin lightning claws if you're just thinking about hunting tac squads, so the only point in taking a power weapon is a mix of spears and mauls with shields for fighting other 3+ save WS5 melee squads

>>96368880
+1S but only on the reductor guy, right? That's one guy. Or can he share it with Myrmidon Destroyers?

>>96368970
Anyone in his unit. Also has the side benefit of turning off shieldwall if you've got a lot of breachers or fists players in your area.

>>96368920
>>96368938
Besides Salamander Forge crafted weapons, I think the only weapons with a positive modifier are paired blades (e.g.: claws).
Swords' niche could totally have been the A+1 weapon baka

>>96368990
Yeah that would have made them worth considering at least.

>>96368946

Looks pretty good to me, main downside is that it's a little slow for something with a 12-18" danger radius, and it can't split fire its guns.

It's damn near unkillable, 15W T8 Eternal Warrior 1 with 2+/5++. You can't melta it for double damage because it's not a vehicle, and "standard" anti-heavy choices like Kratos melta/Sicaran Venator/Laser Deredeo/five elite terminators attacking with Thunder Hammers do about 2-3 wounds to it on average, which a nearby battlesmith can easily duct tape back on. It can't be locked in combat, so its relative inability to melee Marines is not a major issue - it just backs out, fires two dreadhammer templates at the offending unit across shooting + implacable advance volley and then charges back in again.

>>96368970

The Reductor buff actually confers to the entire unit regardless of faction or type, so he's fun with either Myrmidons, Darkfire Castellax (unfortunately non-Scoring) or any kind of allied shooty squad. The main downside is that their Apex is pretty awful and Magi can't take jump packs so they can't deep strike with their thallax to confer it to meltas or whatever, so the buff seems best used from a cheap 30pt Combat Veteran techpriest while the real magi unlock a good Apex. Can give him an Augury Scanner and/or cybertheurgy to throw +1BS on your thallax from across the board, too.

>>96368938
>>96368920
>>96368947
Damn.
Ok. I'll figure out something for weapons then.

>>96368716
yes, but not how you think- you want to flamer the unit next to the one you charge. Don't want to make your charge target run away before you chop them up in combat.

>>96369068
Fall Back moves don't happen until the movement phase, or the end of close combat.

I can't believe Lernean are armed with Conversion beam cannons but Myrmidons only with regular S5 Conversion Beamers lmao

>>96369078
ty for the correction, I'm re pard id

>>96369007
the brass scorpion looks spicy. I've had my eye on the acheron because of the hellstorm flamer (panic 3), chainfist, and fear (2). Seems great to build a warcrime army around for just 500 pts. The scorpion is cooler tho...

>>96368983
I'm thinking about joining him to a Thanatar Calix, so it can have a S11 gun (does 2 damage :O).
Stationary vehicle is basically any vehicle during your turn, right? They're all stationary when you are the one moving, only in a reaction maybe it moved

>>96369007
Dark fire does 1D, no? You could have it be S15 and it still wouldn't matter

>>96369007
The scorpion can be Guided by friendly techpriests too right? That's nasty

>>96369267
what's that do?

>>96369286
+1WS +1BS

>>96369314
new bread
>>96369314

>>96369286
Guide is one of the three options you can pick when you use Overcharge Reactors and gives +1 WS and BS.
The other ones give either +1 Strength and Toughness (for a ridiculously toughness 9) or +1 to movement and initiative

Have a game vs IF in an hour, just trying things out, seeing what sticks and we might paint next. I'll post highlights if theyre interesting. Mission 3, Hammer and Anvil.

>>96368947
Maces squish 1 wound models just as well as hammers for cheaper, thats the niche.

>>96368011
>>96367890

Recons or Effrits or purloined Mors Deythan.

> how do you depict Kraken Bolters for seekers?

I ordered a load of that one part you use to make Bolt Rifles auto-rifles and use that ammo box. For stalkers I'd use the big scope that's on one of the other options, which is what I did with my Nem Vets for my 2.0 NL list, but here I just ordered some 3rd party parts from Etsy.

>>96368294

Those are an Augur squad guy and the Master of Singles in your Area.