Thread 96375034

Thog is surprisingly insightful in this one.

Even Thog is sick of words

>>96375034 (OP)
>Hullabaloo
Heh.

>>96375034 (OP)
Seems a little contrived, but whatever moves the plot along, I guess. Though, I wouldn't be surprised if Serini was actually wearing lead underwear while recording this illusion or something.

>>96375233
>moves the plot along
Check out the copium on this anon

>>96375247
It literally does though. It's a whole page dedicated to getting this gaggle of characters over a major hurdle so they can actually end up participating.

>>96375233
Or if she recorded it before getting the marks.
Or if it’s just a low level illusion since it didn’t need to be a high level one.

>>96375274
Or she drew fake marks on her and then made the message. She seems like the type.

>>96375233
I'm fine with it if it means we can get everything moving, Nale probably needs to get into the dungeon before Xykon does narratively. and he wouldn't be able to do that without some cheat.

>>96375034 (OP)
>>96375274
Even if you accept the bullshit premise, there's no reason why she'd use such a high-level illusion when this is just meant to transmit a message and not to fool anyway. Hell the first thing she does is tell them it's an illusion so why try to hide that?
Clearly this entire setup is just meant to deus ex machina these characters into the endgame, because Burlew couldn't think of any other way after having previously gone through massive lengths to show us that such an easy option doesn't exist, but he could've at least tried to make the deus ex machina somewhat convincing and not sabotage it on the same page it's introduced.

>>96375537
Surely the easy way would be for the Linear Guild to follow Xykon's team into the final Dungeon, but then skip past them through the service corridor whilst Xykon's busy murderizing some of Sereni's stasis-monsters

Seems like they're about to meet the order soon.

I wonder how Elan will react to his brother being a devil. And trying to blow up the world.

>>96375537
It's at least notable that the current Serini thinks that her young self is a naive idiot. She thinks the illusion message she left all those years ago is cringe and stupid. Getting wrecked by Xykon made her even more paranoid than ever, so this may be a matter of "despite all the effort I put in, I was still dumber back then than I am now."

>>96376029
i laffed

>>96375537
calling it a "deus ex machina" is going a touch too far
chill your hateboner, anon
it's a clever enough solution, if admittedly somewhat contrived
still, creative interpretation of rules in this vein is honestly half the reason to read this comic

>>96376649
>point out a blatant asspull that doesn't make any sense sense and only exists to move the plot forward
>NOOO CRITICISM ISN'T ALLOWED YOU JUST HAVE A HATEBONER ;_;
Stop being a sad little bitch for once in your life.

>>96375233
Yeah, I wouldn't want my readers to actually be invested in my story. After all, why should they give a shit? I clearly don't.

>>96376765
>asspull

>>96376765
seriously anon, this isn't good for you
you'll pop a blood vessel

>>96375602
Is it really a surprise that Nale would go to hell? He was pretty evil. If anything, he might feel glad he'd get to at least tell him goodbye, since he didn't in the desert when Tarquin just stabbed him

>>96377422
Watch as Elan talk no jutsus Nale into helping the Order.

>>96377444
I mean, obviously Nale needs to lose, but actively turning coats would probably result in him, Sabine and Thog being completely obliterated and erased from reality by the council.

Is there a complete thog repository somewhere? My HDD broke and I could use a laff.

>>96375537
>there's no reason why she'd use such a high-level illusion when this is just meant to transmit a message and not to fool anyway
She's not a spellcaster, but the most likely person to have made the illusion for her was an arrogant sorcerer who would likely go for the overkill option for his illusions just to show off.
Hell, it's likely neither of them would know about the downside to such an illusion either, since the person that would have known probably wasn't aware the illusion was being used in such a way at all. Kind of a funny bit of irony that she could have avoided this crippling flaw in her defenses if everyone was on the same page instead of needing to be left in the dark outside of their individual contributions.

>>96377444
>>96377569
Nale is too arrogant to listen to his brother, but I still predict he's going to turn on the IFCC for whatever other reason.

>>96377977
>but the most likely person to have made the illusion for her was an arrogant sorcerer who would likely go for the overkill option for his illusions just to show off.
good point actually

>>96378082
I like what you did with the last two bubbles here.

>>96376174
Thanks this is my first OOTS thog attempt. I've only done Unsounded before.[/

>>96375034 (OP)
I chuckled.

>>96375034 (OP)
Shit that's actually a funny core gag for this panel.

>>96375034 (OP)
That was a good ending gag

>>96378082 here. I found a really fast way to paint over words in Krita. Here's a quick tutorial on how to do it.

>>96378587
i just erase letters in mspaint it takes 2 seconds

>>96377989
Nale did become a whole lot less arrogant after his death, it should be kept in mind. I don't think he'll quit turn, but he doesn't have a raging hateboner for Elan anymore, seemingly.

>>96377307
Indeed, throwing a tantrum over criticism isn't good for you. You should stop.

>>96378587
Why is Sabine's chest highlighted?

>>96378587
if you need to use layers your method is neither fast nor simple

>>96378587
did you think people were having difficulty making very basic and simple edits to an image? what gave you that impression?

>>96379386
>>96379312
>>96378711
IDK, someone else as impatient for repetition as I am might end up contributing thanks to this. I had fun fucking around with more ideas this way.

>>96379176
He's not the one throwing a tantrum, anon.

>>96378587
that's cool anon, thanks
layers allow you to undo more easily and experiment

>>96379946
Yes you are.

>>96380727
>samefag accusation
like clockwork
if you want to criticise, how about talking about the work instead
I still say it's not that bad of a development, even though it is characteristically overexplained

>>96375537
Serini herself is a Rogue, she's not a spellcaster herself and is doing this shit with UMD and magic items so I'm more forgiving of her making a slip-up like this because she's not actually a caster herself and both Nale and Sabine are (one's a demon, the other's a joke triple multi class to emulate Bard)

>>96375233
>>96375537
Yeah, this does feel really asspully. All that time and effort invested into creating an invincible defense for the gate and it can all be defeated instantly just by interrogating one of the monsters? You're telling me Serini never even considered that possibility?

>>96383019
In fairness, she never expected the mimics she had in her home base to be interrogated or even found. This is the first time in decades she's been relatively shields-down and focused on something other than monitoring the entire area.

I am new here. Do people on tg actually like this comic? Seems way too wordy and kinda mass produced. Like the creator has to meet a quota.

>>96383306
Anon, pretty much 80% of what these threads do nowadays are 'Thog' edicts which revolve entirely around removing the wordiness of the comic.

>>96383306
Some do, there's still some merit to certain ideas brought up. But it's a long way from the simple stick figure webcomic it was before, and there's plenty of flaws in it such as the wordiness and pacing, so sometimes you need to amuse yourself in between comics.

>>96375034 (OP)
>a literal ASS PULL to get faction #3 to make it to the Showdown Arena(tm) on time
Bravo, Burlew

Remind me again what possible use there was for Nale to come back? Other than of course stretching the story out for another 2 years. Like daddy-o said (years and years ago): his narrative role was spent.

>>96380727
>everyone who refuses to fellate me is a samefag
Kill yourself tranny.

Upscale.

It does seem like an awful lot of hand-waving to say "due to plot reasons, nale will now go directly to the final dungeon"

>>96378587
I figured people were shift-clicking fuzzy select on each bubble, then doing "remove holes in selection" or the equivalent & deleting. But I'm using gimp so what the hell do I know...

>>96383518
the demon subplot with V from ages ago has to have some kind of payoff

>>96384061
>I figured people were shift-clicking fuzzy select on each bubble, then doing "remove holes in selection" or the equivalent & deleting
I just use white brush and paint over.

>>96383306
I like it in spirit, I really love some of the earlier arcs, especially the meditations on the nature of paladinhood between Miko and O'Kchul. but it has become way too long (which kind of makes it funny for stuff like Thog), and kind of conceptually outdated, considering whatever grand point about roleplaying games Rich had planned 15 years ago is likely pretty outdated in respect to current year tabletop game struggles. I have reread it about twice in that time, and it was fun each time, but any fresh reader in the current year gen Z reader will have no fucking idea about any of this munchkin 3.pf shit that the comic is making fun of.

If you want to see an actually bad comic that /tg/ used to have threads about, look no further than Goblins.

>>96381050
Nice meltdown lol

>>96387950
Being a product of its time really makes Redcloak's thing about the goblins being the designated fodder race of the world read far differently today. It might have had a degree of point in regards to D&D a decade or two ago, when there were less Goblin webcomics and monster PCs were more of a fun option rather than a serious one. But we're so far down the rabbit hole of the idea that everyone can potentially be a player character, coupled with the subsequent scorning of "evil only/guilt-free designated target" antagonists in gables that Redcloak's particular gripe rings more hollow. His surface level argument of wanting people to see the goblins as people sound along the lines of "always evil races are bad", but his actions and actual gripes make his motives more like his moralized justification for revenge mixed with envy and guilt of other races having it easier rather than a totally 100% justifiable condemnation of an enforced system of oppression. Redcloak's bitching that Goblins aren't allowed to be PCs under how "the world works" rings a lot more hollow when Critical Role, isekai slop, and video games have made goblins far more acceptable as a race of heroes than ever before.. And if you need it spelled out further how much of a hypocrite he is beyond pic related, notice how Redcloak never talks about how shit lizardfolk, kobolds, gnolls or orcs have it either as the designated punching bags of adventurers, even dismissing orcs as possible allies since they have half-orcs as a PC race.

It's why I always find it funny to see readers trying to talk about Redcloak as somehow being noble and justified in his anger beyond the boundaries of wanting to get back at the world for burning down his village. Revenge for losing your family is totally cogent. The whole "systemic oppression" thing is now based on a rather myopic attempt to frame enemy encounters from an older edition, from before people were trying to make even beholders into uwu cute beans.

>>96383306
almost all the posters in these threads are from Rich's bot farm, he genuinely thinks that the appearance of discussion will improve the rates he can ask from advertisers kek

>>96388222
People were playing goblins, gnolls, orcs, etc in the 70s. Literally nothing has changed. Has Rich ever played a game in his life?

>>96387950
Whenever I see OOTS I always remember ... that other comic that used to be next to it, the one where a fat guy is teleported into a game. But it's been 10 years so I don't remember the name of it anymore. Still wanted to know how that story would end but it was put on infinite hiatus due to some family drama.

>>96388276
I'd say he submitted an entire setting in a contest to D&D, but that's technically not the same as playing an actual game, so you got me. Though considering Redcloak dismissed the idea of "monster PCs" as essentially "they don't count", I wouldn't be surprised if he never did or it's been way too long since he's played an actual game.

>>96388222
>And if you need it spelled out further how much of a hypocrite he is beyond pic related, notice how Redcloak never talks about how shit lizardfolk, kobolds, gnolls or orcs have it either as the designated punching bags of adventurers, even dismissing orcs as possible allies since they have half-orcs as a PC race.
I agree with most of your post, but I don't think only caring about your race is hypocritical
it's perfectly valid to only fight for your tribe, you're not obligated to save the entire world, even if there are others who are in the same shitty position as you

>>96388276
it was far less common and normalised back then

>>96388341
Most of my complaint in that regard is how the comic seems to fixate primarily on the goblins getting the shaft and act like they're the only case of that happening, with only a token mention once to trolls and bugbears getting a similar form of fucked over. Though I will concede the point that Redcloak's singular-mindedness isn't a form of hypocrisy. I do still find that to be a glaring omission for the comic's narrative of "designated evil races being bad" trying to imply Goblins were the ones who had it "unfair" when it's more like they along with kobolds and orcs and some of the other species were just the last picks in dodgeball.

>>96388385
true that
the original crayon reveal mentioned that there were a lot of for-xp races, of which goblins were just one
I still say Thor's later explanation of how it was Fenrir made goblins because of a personal fixation is a retcon

>>96388222
>that entire sentence
Try to convince me MItD is not an Atropal of The Dark One. You can't.

>>96388417
Precisely. I get the general idea of what Rich is going for, but it seems to more exist as a form of meta-commentary on an older form of D&D than as an actual bit of world building. One that’s long lost relevance in how D&D is perceived today. Which is fine, it’s a funny stick figure comic, trying to make a mountain out of a molehill is kind of silly. But I do consider it a sticking point against the comic in hindsight that one of the biggest narrative points it keeps focusing on, the idea that goblins are exclusively unfairly screwed over because of an unspoken narrative, is shaky in the story’s setting and lost a lot of relevance today since goblins are no less heroic or screwed over than most other choices for player character.

>>96383518
I just hope Xykon disintegrates him in the first page just to show how pointless he and the demons are.

>>96388349
You're an idiot if you really believe this. How many games were you in during the 70s?

>>96383306
yes

>>96388897
How many were you?

>>96375233
I finally figured out why this excuse makes me so mad, it’s basically a fantasy version of this video played straight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMBkWtDAPBY

>>96388319
erfworld

>>96388222
>And if you need it spelled out further how much of a hypocrite he is beyond pic related, notice how Redcloak never talks about how shit lizardfolk, kobolds, gnolls or orcs have it either as the designated punching bags of adventurers, even dismissing orcs as possible allies since they have half-orcs as a PC race.

I agree with the general point of your post, but we've seen that lizardfolk and kobolds are well integrated into civilization on the western continent. Along with orcs being an acceptable (if disliked) minority in some places, it's possible that goblins really are especially ostracized. This might be a legacy of their murder spree that led to the dark one's ascension, so it'd make sense in-universe

>>96388319
As other anon said, it's Erfworld.
I stopped reading it ones it went full text mode and instead of a story became a never ending setup for a setup for a setup and on and on with more and more characters with more and more connections...

>>96389432
That's the one point I'm actually not sure on, if only because the western empire being a shithole desert is the only place they seem to be integrated with the general populace. And even then that's more a "generic evil empire" kind of deal. iirc, Malack said he was vampirized when he was a simple tribal shaman, the most we see of orcs are the ones Roy parleys with and those island tribesman who were worshiping Banjo/Giggles aka actual puppets because they were bored of their vague earth spirits (meaning no patron god much like the Goblins), and the kobolds only have the one amusingly named town of Lickmyorangeballshalfling, though they're implied to have Tiamat's patronage at least. Far as all evidence shows, they all have it pretty rough, goblins just got lucky enough for the Dark One to ascend and give voice to the collective chip on their shoulder the other "xp fodder" races don't.

>>96389453
>>96389284
Ah yeah, I kinda remember the text updates. Still want to know how it was supposed to end.

Feel the same about Outsider, but which still updates but I doubt I'll live long enough to see how that turns out.

>>96388971
How many were you?

>>96390007
the same amount as you

>>96389453
It did have some text segments like that to exposition dump between arcs, yeah.

It's also discontinued, after too much bad shit happened in the author's life. The exact details aren't public.

>>96375274
or if MAGIC DOESN'T WORK THAT WAY
GOODNIGHT!

>>96375575
best way is to just happen into the gate serini opened while looking at the doors from the backstage
>>96376029
>suck an illusionary d
Golden

>>96389453
>>96389562
It's funny to look back at Erfworld struggling to find a way to replace its artist, because if the author could have dragged things out for a few more years I can easily imagine them going all in with the AI image generation available now.

>>96375034 (OP)
Wtf, you can't pirate an illusion, or can you?

>>96388576
>But I do consider it a sticking point against the comic in hindsight that one of the biggest narrative points it keeps focusing on, the idea that goblins are exclusively unfairly screwed over because of an unspoken narrative, is shaky in the story’s setting

Redcloak is like 95% of the Goblin political perspective we get in this comic and his perspective is so skewed that you could use it to open wine bottles. Do you remember how in Start of Darkness the Azurite raiding party was SPECIFICALLY after the Crimson Mantle? Yes they certainly slaughtered a lot of gobbos because the Sapphire Guard is lawful stupid, but when you consider that TDO, through the mantle, has been planning something between genocide and the apocalypse for numerous generations at this point it sounds a lot more reasonable. Also worth mentioning is that when Redcloak and Xykon recruited the hobbos to go take over Azure City, the army was already extant and being able to raise, feed and equip an army like that means that the hobbos were already doing pretty well for themselves BEFORE Redcloak showed up and the Bugbears are in a similar situation. Redcloak HIMSELF, in a stunning twist of irony, considered the hobbos to be second-class citizens compared to the green gobbos and happily and callously sent hordes of hobbos to meaningless deaths before raising them from the dead and severing them from the very god he serves. Has Redcloak ever stopped to ask the millions of beings whose lives he's gambling with what they'd prefer between hitting on a hard twenty or standing? No, he hasn't - because if they say "actually we'd prefer not running the risk of total annihilation and we'll just take our chances in this kalpa" then Redcloak has to face up to his sins. You could palpably see him running from the past in his conversation with Durkon, where his offer was "either you meet all of my unreasonable and unenforceable demands here and now or there's no deal".

>>96379291

It's very important to the plot.

>>96393623
You can actually use this exact line of thinking to imagine why "not all instances of race/species X are Y alignment." Not all goblinoids have to fall in with the Dark One's alignment and way of life, just the ones that worship him or live in communities based around his worship. He's not even the progenitor of their species, just a legendary hero. He's also Lawful Evil, which means that Chaotic Evil goblins, or even Neutral goblins, don't align closely with him.

Same thing with orc gods in DnD. Almost all of them align Evil, but that doesn't mean all orcs have to be Evil. But it does mean that orc cultures are more likely to be evil, because the teachings of their Evil gods are likely to be present in their communities (which affects their upbringings).

>>96388319
>>96389453
I liked Erworld's first arc. As a self-contained story, it's really good.

>>96391062
>The exact details aren't public
They are, including news reports.
>>96391857
>I can easily imagine them going all in with the AI image generation available now.
I remember 3D models being used to compose scenery and then trace it over.
I don't think "all-in" on ANNs would be much of an option, given how detail-obsessed the comic was and how hard it is to get generated pictures to follow exact specifications. For postprocessing, maybe?

>>96393662
Yeah, that too. Redcloak's brother seemed like a pretty decent guy.

>>96393623
> Redcloak is like 95% of the Goblin political perspective we get in this comic
I do think you’ve touched upon a big part of why I feel that particular narrative point becomes shaky and less satisfying. Redcloak’s character is a compelling one, but I found most of his actions interesting because you have to actually contrast his actions against his words and consider just which parts of his rhetoric are couched in truth and which are just his wish fulfillment/denial of responsibility acting up. Especially when we get those rare glimpses of a world outside Redcloak’s myopic view and see things like that his brother’s human-gobble settlement or the hobgoblin fortress showing that Redcloak might actually be incorrect about the state of the world and that the goblinoids can live just fine without needing to go through his drastic plan at all. Which I guess is why I felt kind of personally disappointed after Redcloak’s meeting with Durkon that the narrative seems to just kind of fall in line with Redcloak’s rhetoric about goblins having it “unfair” due to how fast Thor, Durkon, and Roy seem to buy into his logic rather than question the inherent nature of the “fairness” Redcloak is demanding, especially after Thor himself hammered in that goblins aren’t unique when it comes to being abandoned by their own creator and dealt a crap hand, just unique in having a different cosmic reaction to it via The Dark One’s ascension. But that’s just me, and I probably am being held back by my own biases and age making me overthink funny stick figure d&d shit far too much.

>>96393623
>>96393662
>>96393927
Look, Wrong-Eye is basically the sunk cost fallacy's bitch. Every time Pimp Daddy Fallacy is feeling frisky, he pulls his pants down and bends over without even having to be asked. He tried to kill Durkon for the same reason he became an only child: because the alternative was admitting that the Plan he sacrificed so much for is unneeded, and joining Xykon was a terrible idea. He wants to carry out the Plan exactly as he envisions it, because otherwise he let his baby brother and countless other goblins die for no good reason, and no lawful reason either.

>>96383306
Not particularly. I'm just invested in seeing if he ever finishes it. I've been reading this since I was 18, I am 40 next year.

>>96390663
Nope.

>>96393747
Which news reports?

Buy an ad, nogames.

>>96383306
the wordiness is what you put up with because occasionally you get extremely good scenes like the Xykon/V fight or Nale killing Malack. There's also a lot of foreshadowing -> payoff

Though I do think Nale coming back like this sort of spoils what an amazing ending he had by dying in the desert. He's been a bit too competent lately, I need this all to self-detonate.

>>96393927
No, I agree. I think Thor's perspective makes a bit more sense because he's also got the guilt of destroying hundreds of previous worlds to contain the snarl. But I think if you had a party member who was actually from Azure City they probably wouldn't give the Goblins so much benefit of the doubt.

As someone else said in this thread it doesn't help that the whole "heroic member of an ugly non-PC race" has been done to death while the comic was updating, had this all finished 10 years ago it probably would have hit a bit harder.

I think the saving grace is that Redcloak is not portrayed ever as a justified character, as >>96394195 says. He's tragic but also overwhelmingly unreasonable as soon as he has to sit down and negotiate and has a giant list of bad decisions he's made that he's refusing to acknowledge

>>96397278
THOSE are what passes for good in this comic? holy shit lol

>>96397278
>He's been a bit too competent lately, I need this all to self-detonate.
I think that it's going to end up with a three-way fight between the OOTS, Linear Guild and Team Evil. I also think that Sabine is going to die - for good - because at this point that's about the only thing that Nale has left to lose.

>>96398944
Tarquin shows up to try and force his way into the main villain role and stabs Nale again.

>>96398944
Sabine would'tt be true to her name if she didn't betray the IIFC for Nale. Who wastes perfectly good 30+ years foreshadowing like that? so I'm guessing that she survives but is punished and sent to DoubleHell

>>96383306
Yes.

>>96375160
>even
Thog being sick of words is what started it all.

>>96391062
>>96395655
I don't remember the exact details, but I think the author's stepson is a pedo or something.
I'm tempted to go look up the details but I'll wait and see if another anon posts a tldr

>>96388276
I started d&d in middle school in the 90's and I never saw a monstrous pc in a game before 4th edition came out and minotaurs were added as a player option.

>>96378082
actually brilliant

>>96388222
I personally think Rich ended up making Redcloak's motivation more righteous because the culture suddenly caught up with his retarded
idea of 'villain races is a racist concept' or whatever. There's a tangible shift in the way goblins are written that coincides with the real-world 'lotr orcs are actually standins for mongols or american blacks (even though JRR never interacted with either of those demographics in his life)'

>>96391062
>The exact details aren't public.
Balder's stepson, this guy https://www.imdb.com/name/nm6721767/
was arrested and tried for fucking a 13 year old and then killed himself after accepting a plea deal.

Balder uploaded a distraught audio log where he blames the 13 year old girl for taking advantage of his adult stepson, because Thor apparently was autistic and a virgin. Weird fucking story.

>>96402314
>>96391062

Balder's stepson hung out at his old highschool as a photographer because it was the only place he'd ever got in. A fourteen year old girl sucked Thor's dick when he was 20, then dumped him because he wouldn't have sex with her (he was severely autistic and sex freaked him out). Obviously the guy shouldn't have been allowed around the school anymore, but from what I remember of the recording, he was sentenced to prison time and fifteen years on the sex offender registry, which does seem overly harsh as the kid was basically retarded

>>96402544
You have a source for all those details?
Why would he hang around a school as a photographer? He worked as an actor.
I'm not disbelieving, I just want some verification, since people speculated wildly on this story.

If he really was so retarded that he didn't know putting his dick in an underage girl was wrong, then I don't think he should have been tried as an adult, surely.

>>96402711
It's from listening to Balder's audio log, which I don't have immediate access to because I didn't bother to save it. I'm sure it's floating around somewhere, though. I also recall that Balder didn't blame the girl, he blamed the judge for not grasping Thor's mental disability

>>96402747
I've tried to find it, but only dead links so far.
It sounds too depressing, I'm just gonna take your word for it and stop looking.

Honestly, I do sympathize. I don't think a retarded 20 year old should go to prison for getting a blowie from a 14 year old, even if it is pretty gross.

>>96402314
>because Thor apparently was autistic and a virgin

>>96383306
It's like Heathcliff or Garfield, everyone knows it's bland, that it's just "kinda there", and there's some normies that genuinely like it, some people that like it ironically, and some people that genuinely like it ironically.

>>96383306
>Kinda mass produced. Like the creator has to meet a quota.
That's a pretty fucking weird take, IMO. The guy is taking his damn time, telling it one page at a time, and making sure each new page release counts as a comic strip unto itself.

But yes, I do like it. It updates a little slow for my tastes, but it's done some fun and interesting things, and continues to do so. Not every page is a banger, but no page is a waste.

>>96406902
It's a waste when you remember the dude is fuckin'old and the possibility of OOTS getting Miura'd is real

>>96407168
Wikipedia says he's turning 51 next week. Also, mangaka tend to die early because they spend years of their lives in constant crunch mode to meet deadlines, and Rich very clearly isn't doing that.