Thread 96401442

Urban Mage Edition

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>Thread Question:
Which Traditions' paradigm do you personally agree with?

>>96401442 (OP)
>TQ
None, we're living in the world where the technocrats won.

>>96401453
>where the technocrats won.
That's a strange way to spell "nephandi" anon.

>>96401442 (OP)
>Which Traditions' paradigm do you personally agree with?
None of them. If any of the traditions actually won, they'd return us to the dark age of wizard-kings in a heartbeat. As shitty as the technocratic world is, it's Much less shitty than the traditions world was(for humanity. Shifters and fairies are getting Fucked, but the more I read about them, the harder it gets to care).

>>96401568
Found the guy who hasn't read a single traditionbook.

>>96401442 (OP)
>>Thread Question:
>Which Traditions' paradigm do you personally agree with?
All of them.
>t. Universalist Son of Ether

Malkavian that seems to be one of the relatively less insane ones but is compulsive liar so you can never trust their predictions.

>>96401442 (OP)
Celestial Chorus and Order of Hermes is my jam.

>>96401442 (OP)
>Which Traditions' paradigm do you personally agree with?
Cult of Ecstacy

If a Chantry were to employ Changelings, what roles would they be assigned?
Because other than having a Troll as security and maybe a Sluaggh as a librarian, I can't think of roles for them.

>>96401739
Test subjects

>>96401739
It really depends, these days even Traditions who used to respect Fae, don't. See image.
But powerful Changeling are still powerful enough to get anytype of role. Someone who can, without paradox, can turn a Werewolf into puppy, command the Weather, Objects and People, age things to dust or resurrect people.

>>96401739
Source of Quintessence.

One of my Hunter players wants to make a flamethrower using vampire blood.

>>96402106
not sure how that would work but i am all for it

Marauders and TN probably should have gotten their own versions of the Spheres.

>TN Spheres: They take the products of regular Spheres and crystallize them into something more compatible with their own internal Consensus. The things they create will then go on to spread this Consensus by exposure.
Marauder Spheres: Because their Spheres are flooded with their Dynamism-addled Paradigm, Marauder Magick is always an explosion of whatever Stuff they associate with that Sphere and it always pushes the effects of other Paradigms aside

>>96401638
Honestly, what's pointing at any other fate in the scenario where the Traditions win? Unless they manage to ride the wave of whatever calamity allows for such a shift they stand no real chance of mass awakening or ascension.

>>96402106
>>96402129
Just strap a settite to a power wash and a vat of pig blood.

>>96402450
Eh, Spheres aren't even necessary for any Mage and Marauders can already do whatever their insanity tells them they can. It's just more job for the ST to keep track of separate systems.

>>96401442 (OP)
I unironically believe that this world is a soul-prison created by the Demiurge. I don't believe in made up shit like magic though.

so basically a Virtual Adept but instead of a matrix it's the funny lion snake thing

Guys, I’ve got an issue that I need help with.
I’m a novice ST, I’ve only run a few campaigns and I generally approach the job as making sure that the players have fun. I’m typically pretty lax in terms of what I allow, but I think I fucked up with this one player.

He’s the main character special snowflake guy. He wanted to play a Kiasyd in v5 and homebrewed some rules (which in fairness were pretty balanced so I allowed it) but this guy is now treating the whole campaign as his personal story and all the other players as bit parts.

I know there’s ways to control him because he’s not like this in other games but I’m trying to get this campaign over the line without pissing everyone else off.

>>96402631
At least be consistent with the aesthetic of your worldview. Lion demiurge genuinely looks like ass even before you make it a woejack.

>>96402700
Just talk to him and tell him to let the other players have the spotlight too.
If it doesn't work, tell him to go be a fag somewhere else.

Also
>v5

>>96402700
ST support line, please elaborate on the situation for actionable advice.

>>96402716
I don't believe in a literal lionsnake but it gets the point across

>>96402631
>>96402716
>>96402833
Obligatory.

>>96402700
>He wanted to play a Kiasyd
You fell for one of the classic blunders!

Seriously though, that's unsurprising to me. I've had poor experiences with Kiasyd PCs before too. The solution is simple. Tell him clearly and firmly that he needs to slow his roll, and that other PCs are going to get roughly as much attention as him. If he gets away with it this time, he'll do it again. Doesn't matter the game, this is a player problem, not a WoD problem.

Give your other PCs more plot hooks, prompt them more frequently, and tell the kiasyd no if he tries to hijack a scene or plotline.

>>96402722
My dick got stuck! What do I do?

>>96402860
get some scissors

>>96402700
>>96402851
I don’t think it’s the Kuasyd in particular, it’s any kind of extremely rare bloodline.
Instead of making their characters unique and lived-in, they’re substituting uniqueness.

Some of the best, most memorable characters I’ve encountered have been, on the surface, pretty ordinary, like a Brujah brawler or Ventrue hedge fund manager. They became memorable through the action of the story as the characters developed.

Your Kiasyd already wrote the character’s whole story in advance, which happens with super-unique snowflakes, so your campaign is just another episode in its history.

You probably won’t make that mistake again, but for the purposes of your current game, I’d pull him aside and gently remind him that there’s other players at the table.

Then I’d start dropping some story hooks that are specifically intended for other players’ characters. Hopefully the Kiasyd will be amenable to following those rather than stonewalling when he decides that those hooks don’t foreground his character.

>>96402860
Go deeper.

>>96402848
Now I feel bad.

Would Rokea and Red Talons get along due to their shared hatred of humanity?

>>96402970
No.
For one, Rokea don't hate humanity. They hate the surface. They're convinced getting involved with the surface world will get their species killed(not unreasonable, most of their species got killed as an accident during the bikini harbor nuclear testing) and their Gaian directive is to Survive.
If a rokea met a red talon, the talon is either getting eaten(dark-water) or fucked(bright-water)

>>96402907
Gangrene girl started making angry noises!

>>96402922
Doesn't seen to have worked.

>>96402970
Nah, they generally dislike the Garou and they generally dislike Unsea shit.

>>96402911
While you're right, Kiasyd are probably the single most special bloodline, being part fae, part Lasombra, and they even had necromancy in one edition for some reason.

Seriously the one time I played with a Kiasyd he would not stop going off on unimportant side-quests while insisting we were the ones hiding the spotlight. He also wouldn't include the rest of us on the sidequests, because we would definitely object to him breaking into a dude's house to cut off his toe.

>>96403036
Drop the scissors and use your hands to please her. Doing that will either make her let you go or crush your cock, a win either way.

Which female fledgeling from VTMB is the most fuckable and why is it the Malkavian?

Hey I've been looking for the new V5 sourcebook, Tattered Façade. So far not in any of the archives. Anyone got the PDF?

>>96403118
I have played a Kiasyd before and it went well, mostly because the ST and I went over what the character was and wasn’t. First and foremost, not a leader. Reserved, bordering on passive, not constantly going on about being part fae or anything like that.
There are plenty of characters you can play with leadership qualities, but the character who left his library to join the group for this one task is not one of them.

>>96403380
Check newvola, I think a saw it there a couple days ago.

>>96403380
>ç
Br (or, less likely, tr) detected.

>>96403399
It's a French word.
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fa%C3%A7ade

>>96403408
Fuck.

>>96403389
>mostly because the ST and I went over what the character was and wasn’t

Because you're the kind of good player that could be trusted to play a bloodline. The problem is bloodlines attract the last kind of player who should be playing one.

>>96402970
>do garou get along with any non-corax fera
no

>>96403586
They don't even get along well with the Corax.

>>96403596
yeah but they somewhat tolerate each other which is still the best relationship garou have outside of their own kind

>>96403579
>The problem is bloodlines attract
This is true about most clans. Malkavians attract the lolrandom crowd, noz attract the mental freaks, ventrue attract controlling asshole that backseat ST, Toreadors attract the sex pests that play D&D bards, etc. The list is as long as the list of clans.

>>96401879
House Merinita is just 10 people who hangout with changelings and get drunk in the near dreaming. How the mighty have fallen...

>>96403655
in a later house they even disband after ctd got canceled and the fae are considered to have died out. no idea if m20 bought them back but if not then they are dead

>>96403660
*in a later book

>>96403655
>How the mighty have fallen...
House Criamonbros...

>>96403396
Just saw it there, I sometimes forget about newvola, thanks a ton anon.

>>96403646
I think that’s a little unfair. Sure, there are stereotypes of all clans’ players, but if they were THAT prevalent, the game would have died along time ago.

The issue is that the bloodlines have a much, much higher prevalence of those kinds of players. They aren’t the kinds of players who want a unique challenge, they want to be the specialest boy, the character who everyone talks about when they’re not around, wondering what they’re doing and thinking.

>>96403660
I mean, if changelings haven't died out in your game, obviously Merinita wouldn't be gone either.

>>96403646
The only one where that happens to scale remotely similar to the bloodlines is the Malkavians.

>>96403859
>The only one where that happens to scale remotely similar to the bloodlines is the Malkavians.
Tzimisce. Every single time, you end up with cartoonish levels of depravity.

>>96403904
Honestly, that's kinda a wide range problem outside of Bloodlines influence. Like, 2nd Edition sligtly made the clan more diverse but Tzimisce outside of Old Clan are freaks and evil of highest order.
Old Clan is still evil but at least they are your classic noble aristocrat evil.

>>96403118
>object to him breaking into a dude's house to cut off his toe

sounds like he was right about you though. you're vampires, why wouldn't you do that if the goal is some sort of sorcery? stop playing humans

>>96403904
and that's a good thing
go play another game if you can't handle depravity

I wanna add this to this list of effects that shouldn't work mechanically, but works anyway due to paradigm shenanigans.

>>96403975
>It's perpetual transition
Tzimisce sisters?

>>96403986
>Ok, so we’ve got the hard drive, we can use to blackmail…uh, Steve? You don’t have to raise your hand, this isn’t school.
>I want to use Fleshcrafting to turn the gas station attendant into a couch.
>Now?
>Yes, now. That’s consistent with my character. This will take all night. Feel free to stick around, because I’m going to narrate this whole thing…

>>96403999
All I see so called superior Wu-Keng overcompensating and using more effort than needed by literally changing the chance around them so that by the trick of light and chance, everyone sees them as a women instead of simply using easier Mind or Forces effects.

>>96404040
>wu-wuz-kengz

>>96404033
Nta, that's not what I was thinking when you said "cartoonishly depraved". That's just being a disruptive retard. Can't say I've ever seen a Tzi act like that in any game I've played/ran.

>>96404033
nice retarded strawman
you are just upset because you are weak and can't handle gore, rape and torture

>>96404071
Don’t cut yourself on the edge, kiddo.

>>96404014
kek

>>96404033
>>96404065
It’s very similar to the Malks who, conscious of not being Loony Tunes, decide to go full-on serial murderer/spree killer. That’s fine until it becomes literally the only thing they do and ruin the game for everyone else.

Thankfully, that’s actually something that becomes less of a problem as your game group gets older and matures.

>>96403999
what the demon gets
>your soul muhahaha
>you have to be his wife (male)
>you can't use Spirit or Time or the demon gets pissy
what the wu-keng get
>free guaranteed awakening
>10 points of free demonic investments, more on the regular if you're good at your job. The best part is that you don't spend any soul points for any of these, since the demon already owns your soul!
>power and influence
>the ability to boil people in their own skin until they turn to soup (yum)
Kind of a rough deal, no? At least they do get some extras out of it.

>>96404100
>mocking someone for being edgy
>on the fucking WORLD OF DARKNESS thread of all place
Why don't you take your pajama-wearing Rick & Morty watching thumb-sucking faggot ass back to upboatville where you belong?

>>96404169
Infernalism is never worth it if you're using your own soul.
Other people's souls on the other hand? That's much more sensible. Like that old TV show about a couple who sold their first son's soul to the devil for money and he was forced to become a hell janny or something when he turned 21.

>>96404173
Ok, son, you’ve made your point. Now please let us all who actually play the game get back to our discussion.

>>96404131
>Thankfully, that’s actually something that becomes less of a problem as your game group gets older and matures

Probably the only good thing. Better campaigns, but maybe one play session per month and it’s over by ten o’clock because the babysitter needs to get home.

>>96404173
Anon, you are baiting but Tzimisce are somehow even more edgy than Lasombra. They literally go to torture tours in Nephandi spaceships to get tortured.

>>96404218
That’s what happens when clans get flattened down to a single aspect.

Ignore the brittle sense of politeness and decorum, the decaying aristocracy, being left behind by the world, the ties to the land, or the covetousness.

>>96402848
you can't escape though
you're here forever

what spheres would I need to download bonzi buddy to someones mind

anyone got a good name for a npc sabbat pack who all have the magic resistance merit and specialize in hunting tremere and camarilla ass-mite sorcerers?

>>96403422
How did you not know that? Anon, I think you have to leave

>>96404434
Here, go infect them.

>>96404473
melon

>>96404527
Banana.

>>96404169
>you don't spend any soul points for any of these
Anon, the 10 points of investments aren't free, they're the points from the initial soul contract you make to become wu-keng.
Wu-keng are nephandi crossdressers so far in the closet that their invading the "straight" toreadors personal space.

>>96404450
The first thing that popped into my head was Reality Check. Not great, I admit.

>>96404169
I mean, if the demon is cute and you are guaranteed NOT to awaken without doing that...

>>96404602
Also, keep in mind that your average newly awakened mage has 60 points to play with (Willpower + Arete) x 10. Wu-keng signed a contract to get most of their points over time, contingent to actually doing more chores for the demon. They really screwed themselves over.

Finally we can recreate the patchwork fursuit guy in wod!

>>96404258
That’s what the Old Clan is for. Plus, Koldunic sorcery is fun.

Tusk is the story of a hapless mortal falling into the clutches of a thinblooded Tzimisce.

>>96401442 (OP)
*kills 99.9% of splats*
Heh, take that!

True Changeling Gnosis is understanding that Liam ARE the bad guys because of how they prop up the structures of Banality without meaningfully reinforcing Glamour. The war is against Banality and its agents, in which the Unseelie are necessary allies.

>>96405169
fortitude 4-5 says no

>>96405467
>>96405467
*adds True Faith*

>>96405504 see >>96405466

>>96405467
Not even fortitude just a plate carrier.

>>96405204
>Changeling Gnosis
Changeling can't go through chrysalis if they have a Gnosis score.

>>96404191
It is amazing I know the exact show you're talking about but can't remeber it's name

>>96404191
>>96405732
this one perhaps?
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reaper_(TV_series)

*leans back with my pipe*
The correct way to do ancient ghouls mechanically is make them thin-bloods with no fangs, full biological needs, and permanent blush of life. The blood of Caine has drowned the spiritual component of their humanity, and they persist in a double-damned twilight where they live without a soul, and are dead without power. If they were capable of resisting their domitor, they'd beg for even the weakest vampire to turn them just to be free of their condition.

>>96405758
>If they were capable of resisting their domitor
You lack imagination when it comes to the depths of evil. There are plenty of people that would willingly serve as the vassal of a creature like a methusela over becoming just another neonate. There's no end to the number Infernalists that happily sell their souls to demons for far less than what an ancient ghoul has.

How many ghouls do you fuckers have?

>>96405504
True Faith doesn't make stakes stronger. 99% of TFs powers are either "I survive/defend others from the powers of the dark" or "I instantly nuke every demon in a 100 meter radius". Not a lot of option for fisticuffs.

>>96405943
8 but i only see 3 of them on a regular basis

>>96405943
>Thinks I still keep count

>>96405943
I heard this in my head as Cainite Tim Robinson going to the after-hours haunted house with several other coteries

>>96405964
>>96405977
wtf, why do you even need so many?

>>96404014
Cattle splay open their penis to look like a vagina
Some lick might get their penis crafted into a true vagina
A Tzimisce crafts their penis into a vagina that still functions as a penis

>>96404450
The Spelling Bees

Business Venture: Cross-splat campaign about a Kiasyd trying to run with Unseelie. They grant the lick boons that make them more able to hang with them as they push them to give up Humanity, only to reveal at the end that it was all a prank and they never thought of them as kin. This should push the Kiasyd to the edge of Wassail. Invest?

I want to be Batinipilled but in a way less integrated into Islamic culture and not in the Middle East. Can I get this? Can I get this by bullying a would-be mentor by insisting that if he permits a madrasa to exist in Israel, he's not that interested in preserving the purity of the sect?

>>96405758
That's the most interesting take on ghouls I have seen a while.

>>96406285
Just letting you know that pissing off your mentor enough for him to kill you counts as failing your Apprenticeship.

>>96405951
To be fair, the Inquisitor and Demon Hunter X did flesh out priestly powers quite a bit. The problem is that when you try to do something interesting with saints all you end up with is overlap with every other splat and/or something incredibly retarded.

>>96406332
In house tytalis, that's just standard practice.

>>96406349
>Demon Hunter X
Shih powers aren't True Faith. They're a lot Like TF, but they aren't the same thing.

>>96406454
Like I said, priestly powers, not necessarily True Faith.

>>96406486
>priest
>not True Faith
...Who's gonna tell him?

>>96406540
Take a look at the Qiao of Seal and tell me it isn't priestly.

starting a campaign soon in a pseudo-MtAw world where we will basically be taking whatever lore the group finds interesting and focusing on that while ignoring stuff we dont care about.

Looking for some thoughts on our BBEG who will be a guy obsessed with creating a perfect day timeloop. Taking all the criminals, monsters, etc, and deleting them or sending them to other "timelines" (this is a bit of a homebrew part as far as mechanics go, we're just gonna say there are a bunch of timelines/dimensions that time/space mages could possibly jump between). What are some MtAw-ey things he could be doing to achieve this goal? oh yeah the game will take place in 2025 las vegas

>>96406798
Find the Platonic Representations of given supernaturals to act as the focus of the spell.

>>96404071
>>96404065
NTA, I've had a Tzimisce exactly like this, but he did that shit not just with NPC's but with players as well. It was my first time ST'ing Vampire ever, and he was an experienced lore-junkie ST who loved VtM. Thing is, the guy was a total fucking scumbag in how he ran and played games, and was known to abuse rules and fuck people over because that's what his character would do.
Anyways, I let him create a Tzimisce and we ran the game with other beginner-players. That faggot tried his best to make the table around him and even managed to, since I was so unexperienced I thought that if he was doing that and knew so much of the rules, maybe this is what vampire is about. He would spend dozens of minutes torturing NPC's, and the moment one of the novices went against his character's wishes, he tortured them with Vicissitude for long periods of the sessions. This only lasted for so long because we were all friends and we all trusted the guy, and we just believed whatever he was doing was what could be expected from a Vampire the Masquerade™ game. Whole fucking tens of minutes of torture, manipulation, and forced protagonism.

Yes, it's been a lot of years since this and I still cringe thinking about it. It took me nearly 7 sessions to have the balls to actually do something about it and asked him to create another character. The moment he saw that his new character wasn't going to be a leader/diva, he dropped out.

>>96406666
...Anon, by "Priest" do you actually mean Daoists and Onmyodo? While both prefesions technically started as religious institutions, they pretty quickly evolved into the eastern version of wizards. They're essentially to china/japan when hermeticism and alchemy are in the west.
A more accurate term to use than "Priest" would literally be "Wizard". It's eastern Rune Magic.

Asking for a friend. How does a Garou get a fairy gf?

>>96401442 (OP)
I agree with the Tradition Paradigm of TOTAL VAMPIRE DEATH

>>96404900
Koldunic sorcery is also a practice of the main clan

>>96407043
Step 1. Be Fianna
Step 2. Don't be anything other than Fianna

>>96407330
No, "Kolunic Sorcery" is what the sabbat degenerates call their demon-corrupted thaumaturgy. Like the Sabbat "paths" compared to Old Europe's true Roads, the "modern koldunes" are a shitty half-assed version of the superior Old Clan heritage of proper Koldunism.
Immagine enlisting demons for power when your ancestor rule the spirits of their lands with as much authority as they do their mortal servants. I swear to Caine, no matter when I think neonate can't get any worse, they somehow find a way to disappoint me yet again...

>>96407043
A Fianna, Black Fury, or Red Talon Theurge might get a Fuath gf. I think any other fairy would find a modern Garou pretty dull, even Banal.

>>96407560
Anon, koldunism comes from kupala, a demon

>>96407623
No, Modern koldunism comes from kupala, because kupala corrupted old koldunism. Look up the dark-ages lore on the matter.
Sabbat tzimisce are infernalists in denial.

>>96406935
>Thing is, the guy was a total fucking scumbag in how he ran and played games, and was known to abuse rules and fuck people over because that's what his character would do.

To be entirely fair a player like that would probably behave similarly no matter what clan they played. Lasombra would be threatening everyone with obtenebration, Ventrue would be mind-diddling everyone, Brujah would be threatening to turn anyone who went against them into chunky salsa.

>>96407632
lmao

>>96407281
*sends a moody and clumsy choir femboy on his path*

What about Kabbalah sorcery?

>>96407729
What about it? The human splats all have it.

>>96407632
This actually happened to me in a DtF game actually. I was asked to help kill some vampires when I noticed one of them had an Infernal aura. Not wanting to muscle in on another demon’s business, I introduced myself at which point I found out these vampires were Sabbat demon hunters and didn’t take kindly to my insinuations that the 1000 year old Koldun was actually a thrall

>>96407632
Tzimisce learned OG Koldunism from Kupala as part of their "bargain"

Although one could also argue that Tzimisce might have been a mage before he was embraced and thus he might have invented blood sorcery after that

>>96407919
It might be that DAV20 retcons this with their invention of "Kraina" that are so different from "Ways" of modern sabbat koldunes.
Or it could be one of those VtM autisms where one author came up with a piece of lore and wrote it down without consulting anyone else. I wouldn't be surprised if one book says modern tzimisce are the only ones contracted to kupala while another says the eldest contracted kupala to invent sorcery(extra hilarity points if the latter source is a modern tzimisce)

>>96407733
Your first mistake was forgetting that vampires can't be standard fallen thralls(vampires have no faith rating), they can only be Earthbounds thralls(earthbound stuff their faith into thralls rather than the other way around). There were exactly Zero situations where they wouldn't be enemies.

Old Tzimisce not to be confused with True Black Hand no vic Tzimisce are full of shit if they call the Sabbat majority of the clan somehow degenerate or having lost their way. They're stuck in crumbled castles of backwater post-soviet states, wasting powers they've cultivated for thousands of years on nothing of substance. Meanwhile the Sabbat Tzis tricked other cainites into being their undead neetbux allowing them to cultivate their horrid vicfaggotry while the rest of the Sabbat does all the hard work. And let's not pretend that the pre-sabbat Tzimisce were at all better, these were the vampires who spammed Vozhd to solve all their problems, and the average Koldun ritual is some shit like drowning a cat and clubbing a toddler with it to make a spirit show you an image of the gypsy with the fattest ass in transnistria.

>>96407729
Usually associated with Hermetics or Choristers

>>96407716
Caiaphas Smith probably has enought True Faith and Hedge Sorcery to pray the gay away

>>96407043
Yeah be a Fianna kinain and start pestering your local kinfolk with autism if they have any hot friends with mental illnesses

>This is the type of audience Paradox will be trying to pander to with M5
If W5 was Pentex’s attempt to demoralize the Garou, M5 will be the Syndicate’s coup de grace on the Traditions. It’s game over, man.

>This is the type of audience Paradox will be trying to pander to with M5
If W5 was Pentex’s attempt to demoralize the Garou, M5 will be the Syndicate’s coup de grace on the Traditions. It’s game over, man.

>>96408151
Also the Lions of Zion. And Nockers.

My Tzim is a good guy. He only does sabbat stuff when he has no other option and would rather spend his time at home playing with his dolls. Mostly just kills gang members and other lowlifes. Likes to play vigilante at night every now and then to let his Zulo out for funsies. His ghouls are happy (they better be because otherwise he might dispose of them). Sometimes turns a captured mortal into a nasty monster without any brainwashing so he can fight it for entertainment (and record it because he likes monster/tokusatsu movies).
He's just chill like that.
Please ignore the fact that he turned his "packmate" Hermanas Hambrientas into degraded slaves just because he's very racist towards Blood Brothers.

>>96401739
>Sluaggh as a librarian
There's nothing about Sluaghs that makes them particularly suited for the job, aside from the fact that many of them like books and libraries. It's similar to the English and football.

>>96401739
Formerly haughty Sidhe women as free use chantry onaholes. Yes, this is an Ecstatic chantry, how could you tell?

>>96408440
Someone who likes a place is likely to take good care of it.

Has anyone used this to make Beast playable?

>>96408596
What does it do exactly?

>>96408732
It's free* on DTRPG, that's why I'm asking.

>>96407969
iirc v20 preserves the "the Eldest learned Koldunism from Kupala before trapping the latter in Transylvania

>>96408420
Big Kabbalist Knockers

>>96408435
What does his sire think of this?

>>96408829
If it's free, why would you not just read it yourself?

>>96407560
Im not talking about modern koldun. Koldunism is tied into the core of the clan. Ilias accompanied Myca Vykos on a tour of the voivodate domains in the 13th century. Y’all have such a shallow understanding of the lore.

>>96405943
>How many ghouls do you fuckers have?
I don’t know anymore. They started to reproduce.

>>96407978
I was a demon fresh out of Hell trying not to metagame, so I didn’t actually know that in character

>>96408067
>drowning a cat and clubbing a toddler with it to make a spirit show you an image of the gypsy with the fattest ass in transnistria.
Like, how detailed of an image are we talking?

>>96408984
So which is it? The result of some deal made with a demon by the Eldest, or natural magic tied to the land or something else?

Have you ever used the Mariner Gangrel or other underwater creatures in your Games?

>>96407969
that's from the true black hand book which also says that: it is optional canon and says that this is the story the old clan tzimisce tell who are known bullshitters

>>96408399
The game has been over for 20 years already.

>>96409311
How does this nigga even get blood

>>96409048
a bit hazy but good enough if it's a windless night

>>96409327
the same way normal gangrel in the wild do they eat animals and hit on people living on the border of civilization

>>96407969
Honestly, Krainas are renamed Ways, with more themes. Like Way of Water and Kraina of Black Sea.

>>96409311
Never seen one as a PC but I’ve used one for an NPC in a story set in New Orleans. He lived in and around the bayous in the Mississippi River delta and took on the features of an alligator gar (a big mean fish). Spoke mostly Cajun French. Left the locals alone, for the most part.

>>96409327
They feed on Sharks, Whales and other supernatural denizens of the deep.

Another fun fact, there are Nosferatu with Underwater lairs with ghouled sharks, crabs and fish.

>>96409327
Weirdly 20+ crabs a night can sustain a vampire.

>>96409358
>Left the locals alone, for the most part.
Who's child did he eat as an alligator?

>>96409403
>Who's child did he eat as an alligator?
The son of Monsieur et Madame Didn’t-teach-their-kid-to-follow-simple-instructions-and-stay-out-of-Pepe-Grandes-Dentes’-swamp-at-night.

>>96409439
He just awarded the kid a Darwin Award, his parents should be glad that they don't have to take care of them anymore! If I was in their position I would be enjoying a long weekend with the insurance money.

>>96409454
It was actually a really fun NPC to play, yammering on in French before one of the players finally admits that none of them can understand a single thing he’s saying, or disposing of a body by summoning a huge school of crawfish.

>>96409454
Based baby boomer.

>>96409311
Why does it have boobs?

>>96408399
all my interactions with "spiritual" people or "magic" (i.e delusions and make believe) practicing people just makes me support the Technocracy even more

like I'd sign up immediately to the Technocracy to continue the pogrom with no hesitation I hate these superstitious morons so much

>>96409612
True, but in a game where Magic exists, it’s not a matter of belief. You don’t have to believe, you already know it for a fact.

>>96409491
How low was his humanity? It couldn't be higher than 4 of he is willing to torture the PCs like that.
Memes aside, it does sound a fun character.

>>96409503
Because she wants to.

>>96409503
Floatation device

>>96409371
>Another fun fact, there are Nosferatu with Underwater lairs with ghouled sharks, crabs and fish.
IIRC Absimiliard himself does this

>>96409660
Yeah, it was 4. Good guess. The “Don’t kill the locals” guideline was entirely a pragmatic choice to maintain stability in his territory.
Poachers would try to sneak into his bayou often enough to where he never starved. Criminals would try to dispose of bodies in the “haunted” bayou and maybe get snatched under the water in the process.

It took the PCs a long time to even find him.

>>96409327
She slithers to the Beach and uses Rresence.

>>96409737
>took the PCs a long time to even find him.
It is always a bitch to find a Gangrel.

>>96408399
>M5
They’re actually making this?

>>96409222
Probably both…I think different authors have indeed had different intentions for it. But the koldun have a venerated position among the regular Tzimisce and it’s considered an honor to host one. The koldun themselves just are presented as pagan priests that commune with spirits. Kupala might just be one which has corrupted some of them and perhaps even the eldest.

>>96409821
Allegedly. WoD5's development cycle is slow as molasses, consider how many years it has been since V5's launch and we only have three main splats, and three is being generous considering how little meat there is to H5.

I imagine it'll come out with little fanfare in 2-5 years. Old school mage fans will throw a fit, but to be fair they also hated M20, so it'll be less newsworthy than the (reasonable) anger at W5. It likely won't gain any significant ground even with tiktok spiritualists, partially due to a lack of interest in TTRPGs and more importantly, there being a lot of other options for playing urban fantasy magic users.

>>96409984
Old fans throwing a fit is irrelevant, let’s just be honest.

I’ve heard that new Mage is basically done and in play testing. Whether it’s a hit comes down to how it’s marketed. The crux of what makes Mage Mage is the infinitely flexible magic system build around the lore of subjective reality.

If the 5th edition is too complex (unlikely, but not impossible if they sell it as an “advanced” game) or too simple (not feeling as good anymore) then it will flop.

>>96409984
>due to a lack of interest in TTRPGs
It’s down from its lockdown era peak but it’s still much higher than it’s been in a decade.
Sure, there’s a lot more diversity in the games people play which can prevent any one game from becoming huge and making enough money to be able to last for decades, but that’s a different problem entirely.

>>96410129
>I’ve heard that new Mage is basically done and in play testing.
I don't think that's true, Jason Carl said in June that they want to get started on it as soon as possible, meaning nothing is done right now.

>>96410183
Maybe they have a decent early draft they are using. Even if it might be basically unplayable for everyone else.

>>96410129
It's very relevant. It removes a lot of otherwise secure sales, but more importantly it generates negative buzz around a game that does not get an immediate hegemony over urban fantasy magic. Mage isn't a very default take on the concept, it's why it's such a love it or hate it gameline. Not to mention, the latest batch of new players are HtP kiddies, and the project lead on HtP is a raging magefag.

Old fans are also the reason V20, despite being shut down by paradox, is as played if not more than V5. Historically, oldfag backlash to 4e D&D led to 3.5 and its sorta successor Pathfinder 1e dominated the TTRPG space until 5e came along.

>>96410165
Allow me to clarify, lack of interest in that proposed target audience. I don't think people in that space have much interest in tabletop games.

For what it's worth, I'm glad we're living in an era where people are playing a wide variety of things. It prevents one game design philosophy from reigning supreme.

>>96410183
Did he say they were starting from scratch or that they were starting on production, marketing, artwork, etc?

>>96410207
>>96409984
On a tangential ass note, do you think they are going to make paradox a DM resource like the Conan or Star Wars RPGs?

>>96410231
That's too good of an idea. You will get Paradox dice, basically renamed V5 hunger, stapled on.

>>96410219
>Old fans are also the reason V20, despite being shut down by paradox, is as played if not more than V5.
I think that depends very much on your area and player circles. If such data exists (not just “feels like”)
In my circle, we’ve been playing VtM since the late 90s and only play v5 now, simply because that’s the most popular.
(And also because I lost nearly all of my original v1 and v2 books when my basement flooded several years ago.)

>>96410129
>Old fans throwing a fit is irrelevant, let’s just be honest.
Thats how you end up with negative word of mouth that haunts the franchise. Old fans are usually long term fans who are invested enough to become long term haters too.

I haven't payed a single dime for any of the 5th Edition and have been recommending other edition for over a decade now and I doubt this will change.

>>96410267
> In my circle, we’ve been playing VtM since the late 90s and only play v5 now, simply because that’s the most popular.

I’m in a similar boat, everyone I play with these days is either an older Millennial or young Gen Xer. As we got older, we stopped actually caring about the minutiae of crunch that much. V5 can be used to run a great campaign and if a younger or newer player wants to join , they’re easier to get plugged in.

>>96410308
>Old fans are usually long term fans who are invested enough to become long term haters too.
The problem is that old fans also don’t NEED to spend any money. They already have all the books they’ll ever need.
A publisher needs new people to come on board. A bunch of 40-year old graybeards’ recommendations isn’t really the advertising coup it sounds like.

Think of GW stuff. They killed off fantasy and everyone complained, but Sigmar sells better than fantasy did because all the fantasy players bought their armies years ago.

>>96410317
>and if a younger or newer player wants to join , they’re easier to get plugged in.

Are they? I've never bought into the idea that V5 is particularly easy to learn. It seems to me, as an outside observer who read the V5 core but has never run it due to a foundational dislike of its design philosophy, that it's not really more intuitive than either oWoD or nWoD.

>>96410308
Grognards’ opinions are irrelevant because they’re incredibly predictable: they always hate the new stuff, anything that simplifies or streamlines anything is bad, welcoming new players who make the old players aware of their age is bad.

>>96410381
>I've never bought into the idea that V5 is particularly easy to learn
It’s hard for me to say because oWoD was the first game I ever learned and I found it difficult…but I was also completely new to role playing and didn’t have any experience.

I will say that V5 is easy to teach, particularly if you use the specially marked dice, to people who’ve never played a TTRPG.

>>96410308
I think most companies would rather have negative word of mouth than never bringing in new customers. Nothing starts out perfect, at some point you'll need to change things in order to improve. But every change will inevitably anger some people, that's just how it goes. Otherwise you end up with endless nostalgiabait and a dwindling base because there's nobody to replace the people who left for reasons outside your control.

>>96410341
I really disagree, I might hate say, M20s Sphere bloat but The Rich Bastards Guide to Magic? That is the shit and I would recommend it heavily.

Missing of old fans not only prevents you from getting their money and leaves a negative word of mouth for the foreseeable future.

>>96410393
There might be some old fans that hate everything new by default but most aren't like that. Most want to like the new thing, they want to continue liking the series they are invested in.

But well, when you come up with magazine style corebooks, TikTok plays, blantly "reimagining" over two decades long series and with H5, just use the name to sell something else?
Don't expect me to support you.
>>96410423
No one is saying never bring new customers. But failing to gain a significant following after clearly not giving a fuck about your old customers is also stupid.

>>96410423
> I think most companies would rather have negative word of mouth than never bringing in new customers.
nta, the issue with that mentality is that you treat it as a zero sum game which it isn't, it's a balancing act, one the WoD5 has severely shit the bed at. while i can't say with any authority which edition is more popular i can say that WoD as an absurd amount of new players getting into older editions, rather then stick to the new one

>>96410246
I gut that on some level that's the identity of this edition it still seems like it wouldn't work as well for Mage as it did for Vampire and Werewolf.

>>96410481
>Most want to like the new thing, they want to continue liking the series they are invested in.
But they never do. I’ve never seen it. A new version of something comes out and the old fans bitch about the changes and refuse to buy the new stuff until they’re basically forced to, which in ttrpgs is not often.
They simply do not like change. They don’t want to feel like they’re being forced to buy new stuff. They don’t like feeling like they’re starting from scratch.

To the old guys, a new version says
>okay, sorry you wasted your life on this crap, here’s the good stuff now.

I mean, shit, I know v1/v2 players who hate v20.

>>96410538
In the sense of carrying Paradox as one does Hunger, no. But having a mechanism where you’re like, “difficulty 6, and it’s vulgar, with witnesses, swap out three Paradox dice.” Would work pretty smoothly, I think.

>>96410567
Fair enough I suppose.

>>96410543
>v1/v2

Nta, calling 1st and 2nd edition v1 and v2 comes off as shill-y, which I don't think is your intention. Trying to apply the V5 edition terminology retroactively comes off as very Corporate Approved.

>>96410538
>>96410567
We don’t yet know what the essence of the new game will be.

Like, the Hunger mechanic changed VtM from being one of resource management to risk management (running out of blood in a predictable way vs risking frenzying)

Presumably carrying Paradox points will increase the risk of Backlash or something, but the means of accumulating them will be different.

>>96410592
It’s the common terminology, typing out 1st edition, 2nd edition, Revised edition, 20th Anniversary edition, is cumbersome.

>>96410543
Maybe you just live around very bitter people anon, but I think you trying to characterize every old fan as being inherently stuck in their ways is a strawman.

Since we have no conclusive data and everything in the discussion is going to be anecdotal, allow me to share a personal experience. I like Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. When the 4th edition of it came out, I was cautious, but looked into it. While I really don't like the art or lore in those books at all, they solved nearly every issue with WFRP's d100 system, made the combat really engaging, and every supplement adds good new character options. So I'm happy to discard the lore and use the mechanics. By contrast, I just can't stand V5, on virtually every level. There are a few good ideas, but even those are executed in such a way that they remove any merit to the underlying idea.

While highly speculative, I think this desire to chase a new playerbase at the expense of what came before is misguided, as V20 was a roaring success (by ttrpg standards) that brought a lot of new players into the game, and V20 was mostly a compilation of Revised with a few mechanical tweaks. They didn't need to fix the frankly wonky core oWoD rules, they just put out an anniversary reprint and it was quite popular. There will always be some older players that dislike even the most mild of changes, but I reject your assertion that this is some universal principle or even that common.

>>96410627
It isn't common dude you're like the only person who uses it.

>>96410651
Ok, whatever. I get it.

>>96410627
That's why people type 1e, 2e, Revised and X20.

>>96410647
Fair enough, you make some good points, even though dismissing my argument as a straw man is a little insulting. You probably didn’t mean it like that.

Like you say, it’s speculation, but there must be a reason that a new version is made. Money is no guarantee if the new version sucks. Why not just keep on reprinting the old version?

>>96410692
>X20
Xylophonist: the Ringing

>>96410703
>Like you say, it’s speculation, but there must be a reason that a new version is made. Money is no guarantee if the new version sucks. Why not just keep on reprinting the old version?
More money.
Corporate logic most of the time is "New product=Consumer Buys new product even if they have the old product."
Its been standard practice since forever.

>>96410703
If I had to speculate, Paradox Interactive is a video game company. They wanted a new edition to springboard a bunch of video games off of. Brought into the current year, with a lot of the old baggage cut off and severed. I genuinely think that's why it is the way it is, only they didn't keep the team on too tight of a leash because they didn't think it was that important. But... turns out there were a lot less video game developers biting. And Bloodlines 2, the flagship, turned into a quagmire. Production costs on TTRPG creation are pretty tiny now that we're in the digital age, while print runs appeal to some people a lot of the business is online. So might as well keep putting it out for more IP control.

That, and corporations have been proven to refuse to admit failure even in the case of blatant failure, keeps the stock price high. It's hardly anything that extreme in the case of WoD5, but the same principle applies.

>>96410703
>>96410734
Money, yes, but V5 is actually a different game. It’s not really a new version of the old game. Like >>96410610 said, it’s gone from a resource management system to a risk management system. That, I believe, is where the discontent has come from over the last six years. It’s a fundamentally different approach.

The lore part? Oh yeah, incredibly ham-fisted and I’d wager that, in hindsight, they should have started from scratch like Requiem did.

>>96410781
>That, and corporations have been proven to refuse to admit failure even in the case of blatant failure, keeps the stock price high. It's hardly anything that extreme in the case of WoD5, but the same principle applies.
I’m not sure it is a failure. It’s lasted seven years now, as long as any other edition, and Paradox is bringing it back in-house.
If it was a flop, they’d have pawned it off on someone else or created a revised edition or just let it wither on the vine instead of continuing to generate sourcebooks.
We don’t have sales figures to say one way or another so we can only guess.

>>96410722
lol

>>96410835
Nta but they barely released anything.

>>96410835
I just said "it's hardly anything that extreme in the case of WoD5", it's not an abject failure but even if it under-performed, they were going to hold on to the IP at the absolute least until Bloodlines 2, which has been their big gambit. Paradox isn't really bringing it back in house, in fact they mentioned in their "new new White Wolf" post that they'll still be working with contractors. If anything, I'd argue it constitutes a degree of separation from Paradox, especially since it's technically this new white wolf that'll be publishing BL2.

I'd also assert that while it's been around for seven years, it hasn't done much in those seven years. Seven years, and only Vampire, Hunter, and Werewolf in that order. They're just now talking about Mage, not a peep about anything else. Just because Renegade is capable of crapping out a steady stream of V5 supplements doesn't mean much. Without actually seeing the numbers, I'd say it's been thoroughly tepid and that's why the development cycle has been so slow and there have been so many leadership changes.

>>96410789
It really is a different game.

Honestly, I feel sorry for the WoD5 players. They mostly just get shit on ITT and this is the kind of gatekeeper bullying that gives the hobby a bad name.
Why should they be shit on for liking a thing? There’s nowhere else they can go without getting shit on for playing a certain edition of a game where they pretend to be a vampire.
No one here got called a fag for playing V:tM in the 2000s or earlier?

Personally, I try to stick to helping people with STing tips and creating good PCs, since that’s edition agnostic.

I want to have sexual intercourse with a Bastet male

>>96410914
It’s a different game and it also has a different culture online.

Fans of the older games argue about lore.
Fans of the current game have to constantly defend why they like their game.
When another version is released, then the V5 fans will be allowed to argue about lore as well.

Grognards DO matter. Literacy among younger readers is in freefall and most don't buy books either.

>>96411049
Gray lives matter. They just don’t matter for as long.

>>96410789
>V5 is actually a different game. It’s not really a new version of the old game.

Yeah I personally wouldn't mind it if it were its own game. I still wouldn't like it, and if Paradox still prevented oWoD and nWoD from getting new books I'd be mad at them, but I wouldn't otherwise mind it. Unfortunately WoD5 invites this kind of bitter comparison because it uses the skinsuit of oWoD for name recognition. Also, and I've said this before, but I always thought blood points/blood pool was actually a really good system (even if unintentional) as long as you weren't playing with someone allergic to roleplaying. In both Masquerade and Requiem. It makes players slowly start seeing human NPCs more and more as juicebags, creates a situation where you have to balance spending blood to make impressive plays and making sure you get it without breaking the masquerade. Blow through your blood on stupid shit and you might frenzy, or drain someone dry, and then that's a problem for future you. At the same time if you can balance using blood and gaining blood well, you can really start feeling like that powerful master of the night, even if you'll now always play the game of "could I drink them" with every NPC you come across. It puts you in the vampire's mindset well, and works as a good tool for teaching you how to play the Jyhad itself effectively. If you have a player that refuses to roleplay, yeah it sucks, but everything sucks when a player refuses to roleplay.

>>96410914
As a dyed in the wool V5 hater, I don't hate the players, I hate the game and more importantly the corpo shits behind it. I try to give good advice on running or playing, but while some things are universal, not everything is. I can't give as good advice on games I have limited experience with.

>>96410914
>They mostly just get shit on ITT and this is the kind of gatekeeper bullying that gives the hobby a bad name.
Why should they be shit on for liking a thing?

Never played V5, never will, don’t like it, but you’re right. Kids who are bullied frequently become bullies themselves once they get a tiny smidgen of power. It’s all they’ve learned.

If anything, I imagine it’s hurting the long term prospects the setting since anyone who wants to get into it will just be turned away by the gatekeepers.
>No, you’re a fag if you play the new game, you need to play the old game, the game preferred by all the guys screaming at you right now.
If those are my options, maybe I don’t want to play at all.

>>96411059
>It makes players slowly start seeing human NPCs more and more as juicebags
Yes, now contrast that with v5’s hunger system, where the player slowly comes to realize that he is, himself, a monster barely in control of himself.

If you’re going for personal horror, I think that hits the mark more closely than any lack of empathy for an NPC. Players understand better their own characters’ fears and motivations.

The flaw in that system, however, is that it can make the player scared to do much of anything cool unless he’s topped up. That’s something the STs end up having to manage and not many of them realize that.

>>96410789
i have to disagree, V5 isn't a different game, or at least not as different as it's defenders pretend it to be. V5 is a continuation, simply one that seeks to address some longstanding issues with the system. The failure of V5 really boils down to two issues.
one is the age old tradition of writers that don't respect differing interpretations of the setting and regularly undermine other interpretations for no other reason the spite. this isn't unique to V5 but it's very prevalent in it's earlier material and because of that it's baked into the foundation of the edition.
but the other issue is that despite looking to address long standing issues V5 has no regard for follow up issues (i fix issue X and now i have new issue Y, that sort of thing) and it's bloody everywhere in this edition, not a singular change they've introduced isn't undermined by some follow up issue that they're just ignoring.

>>96411059
>>96411201
You’re both right.

oWoD is good for playing games where you become a powerful lord of the night.
V5 is good for games where you’re constantly having a panic attack.
There’s room for both, I think.

>>96411237
Is this in relation to the lore? Because the post you’re replying to agrees that the way the lore was (mis)handled was fucked.

The “different game” aspect refers to Blood Pool vs Hunger and how it affects the choices the pc makes.

>>96410990
I'd rather not with a Bastet regardless of gender. Reminder that they piss and shit on the floor or walls of their homes/den realms.

>>96411291
You haven’t seen how I live. I doubt I’d even notice.

>>96411248
>There’s room for both, I think.
No there isn't. classic wod was also good for games where you were always having a panic attack, but most STs forgot the mechanics involved in that.
For example: Hunger. The amount of brainless seals clapping for V5 because it "Created a hunger system in a game that was missing one" made me lose more faith in this community than I knew I had. Vampire has a hunger system, your maximum virtue rolls are capped by current blood pool, so a vampire fresh out of a desperate situation that drove him to 1 bp is going to hunger-frenzy within hours.

>>96411308
Post pictures.

>>96411310
>continued shitting on people for liking a thing, calling them brainless.
This is what I was talking about. This is uncalled for.

>>96411266
it's definitely more noticeable in the lore, but the mechanics have this exact same issue too. all changes to the mechanics seek to adress a long standing issue with the old system, >>96411201 points out a follow up issue with the hunger system but the new discipline system and especially the new touchstone system have issue like that as well.

>>96411248
you can be a powerful lord of the night in V5 too. stop trying to force this mental picture you have of it on the game

Compared to previous editions, you can be far more powerful at chargen in comparison to the rest of the world in V5

>>96411338
>the new touchstone system have issue like that as well
I just ignore those in my games.

I believe the failure with the touchstone system is because the designers didn’t realize how incredibly isolated people are these days, to the point where caring that much about someone else is a concept so alien it cannot even be role played.

>>96411363
that makes sense

I hate the touchstone system. Not even I got 3 people I care about that much that I define myself through them. Why should a vampire?

The humanity system and lack of paths is trash in V5

So, if you’re a V5 player, are you just reduced to “I just think it’s neat.”?

>>96411201
>If you’re going for personal horror, I think that hits the mark more closely than any lack of empathy for an NPC.

I've become convinced that "personal horror" is a bit of a meaningless buzzword. I think there's a far more insidious and interesting angle to explore with slowly becoming desensitized towards seeing mortals as resources. You were once mortal, but slowly, almost imperceptibly you see them as an other less and less. It enhances the theme of the eternal struggle to hold on to your humanity as the march of centuries goes on and on. You grow more powerful, you watch your peers meet final death but you survive, thrive. You master your vampiric powers, you attain power, prestige. You slowly become immune to the laws of mortals and vampires alike! Yet you feel ever more hollow inside. You don't think you've changed, but you can't shake the feeling that you have. I would say that's far more poignant horror than a forced lack of self-control.

Not to mention, I have always felt you can do bestial vampires just fine with low humanity and the existing rules for frenzy.

>>96411248
>There’s room for both, I think.

If only someone told Paradox this.

>>96411369
personally I play v5 because it's more streamlined and isn't bogged down by 20y of mechanics and disciplines that grew like cancer

>>96411369
>So, if you’re a V5 player, are you just reduced to “I just think it’s neat.”?
Depends. Are you willing to accept that you’re also a brainless seal, hooting and clapping at your shitty babysystem?

>>96411372
>If only someone told Paradox this.
No need. You have all the books. The PDFs are easily obtained if you don’t. The system is complete. Dice are cheap as chips.

Paradox doesn’t need to do anything at all. What would you even want from them?

Looking for roleplay advice from people who've played Sidhe characters in CtD20, idealy one of House Gwydion. What's the kind of mentality that I should try to emulate without being an arrogant stuck-up prick?

>>96411430
my schizo gf

>>96411372
>Yet you feel ever more hollow inside.
That’s never happened to me. Kill everyone I see? Who cares? I’m unstoppable. Diablerize some guy who pissed me off? Who cares? The zeroth tradition is “None of the following count if they can’t be enforced upon you.”
What do I care about an NPC? There will always be more.

>>96411419
Don't be obtuse. Paradox cut off development for both oWoD and nWoD, there could've been far more interesting supplements for both lines.

>>96411460
based and might makes right pilled
this should be the natural vampire and even human mindset
rules that try to force feeling bad about using your might on others are written by weak people

It is practically impossible to feel hollow as a vampire if you think about it logically. Every day you get to be Nietzsche's ubermensch and have fun in whatever way you like. Vampires should realistically be the happiest people you ever meet, fully actualized, in their lane etc.

>>96411363
i think it's more an issue that the designers didn't consider how the mechanics of the touchstone system limits the type of relationship you can have with your touchstones in both the mechanics for interacting with your touchstone but also how they relate to your convictions.
plus having your personal morals influenced by another isn't a relationship, it's idolization at that point.

>>96411500
Anon, Might Makes Right and Eat the Weak believers only last until they realize they are the weaker party.
Most vampires are lower in the totem pole. Even Elders, boogiemen of most vampires, know better than everyone that they are at best middle management, at worst a slightly shinier pawn to the Methuselahs and Antediluvians.
Unlesss you are one of the few ancient Methuselahs or Antediluvians, you are part of the weak.

>>96411499
My point is that, considering how badly they fuck up everything else they touch, would you want them to get busy on V20?

I don’t need any errata. I don’t need even more bloodlines and disciplines.

I mostly play Ad&d Planescape. Nothing has been published for that setting in like thirty years. Countless games and no two have ever been alike.

>>96411550
might makes right doesn't mean you go on a rampage like a retard
it is entirely compatible with being out of harms way when you know some bigger fish is around

Simply put: skill issue

>>96411550
How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. To be stopped, first you must accept that can be stopped in the first place. And I’m a fucking vampire. Good luck, world.

>>96411556
Well it wasn't Paradox or any of the usual V5 contractors doing either 20th ed or nWoD. It was mostly OPP. While their later work wasn't perfect I still find it worth having.

I'm not incapable of running things without new stuff, but I would enjoy it if the lines I actually like got more books. Especially the ones who got cut short like HtV2e.

Do children count as full humans or small animals for the purposes of quintessence generation?

>>96411568
I love how you say live your life happiest, as ubermensch and doing what's fun to you and then say keep your head down and slink away when the bigger fish comes. Adorable.

>>96411540
Oh, I’m the opposite. They weren’t limiting at all. I thought the touchstones and convictions and stuff were so vaguely written that they meant nothing.
It’s strictly a role-playing hook and not a rule pertaining to the mechanic of the game.
If the players have well designed characters, the touchstones are trivial.

>>96411626
> the rules are shit
> it's great actually, if you ignore the rules

>>96411634
Not sure you read my post at all if that’s your response. ESL?

>>96411369
I mean currently I'm sorta playing V5 because that's what the only other active WoD player in the city seems to have and I don't want ST at the moment (most of my shit is 1e)

>>96411603
Finally, Common Sense in the /wodg/

>>96411332
Nice strawman. Anon is calling people out for criticizing a thing they don't actually understand as a way to make the thing they like look better

>>96411602
>I would enjoy it if the lines I actually like got more books.
No me. They’ve got too many books already. For every interesting detail the books add, they add two details that either contradict existing lore (and not in a “legend has it…” sense) or add something that completely breaks a rule.

What the settings haven’t had in decades, if ever, is a single, centralized arbiter of truth. It’s been just a bunch freelancers slapping shit together because it sounds cool and giving their favorites some new toys.

>>96411372
>I've become convinced that "personal horror" is a bit of a meaningless buzzword.
Always has been. It's a code word for "you're playing the make-believe jojo reference game wrong".

>>96408915
She agrees with him on the Sabbat thing, but otherwise thinks he's cringe and sometimes regrets embracing him.
However she can't bring herself to accept she made a mistake, but also wants to see where things go.

>>96411606
>as ubermensch
Anon, you do know this term means "person who doesn't blindly follow rules or social contracts", not "person who can impose their own will over others" right?
Plenty of sociopaths ignore the law the moment no one's watching and pretend to be law-abiding when the authorities are looking. By the classic definition, these people are "ubermensch". Not really something to aspire toward like Nietzsche thought, but its not a contradiction.

>>96411681
Anon called them brainless seals. That’s the bullying we were talking about. I don’t know what his problem is or how he can get help, but shit like that does nothing except put everyone in a rotten mood.

>>96411640
i read your post. if you aren't shitposting then i just don't get your angle is mate. sure, you can just ignore touchstones and it ain't hard but the rules aren't vague to the point of meaninglessness, they're very clear on how touchstones work

>>96411697
>It's a code word for "you're playing the make-believe jojo reference game wrong".
This. The ST makes it a horror game, not the ruleset. Dice and arithmetic aren’t scary.

>>96411460
The road of the jyhad is paved with the bones of vampires that have the same "nah I'd win" attitude. If you "kill everyone you see", you'll be killed yourself. Nobody is invincible. There are vampires with decades, centuries, or even millennia more experience than you. An elder could dispatch of you with little effort, a methuselah with little more than a blink. Princes can get got by the Justicars and their Archons. Even if you're lucky enough to be embraced with a good generation, you're still at the bottom of the pile. That's an attitude you can afford to adopt once you're a methuselah, and even then, you should tread carefully. Even Methuselah have gotten got before, and it always happens when they start to think they're above all consequence.

Mechanically, if you're regularly getting away with killing random NPCs without the sheriff putting his boot up your ass, it's a skill issue on the ST's part. Most people running games try to have things "be balanced", but I don't think that's the right attitude to have in VtM. If you piss off the wrong elder, and haven't cultivated allies, you will get dusted by a statblock you have no realistic chance of beating, especially since they aren't stupid enough to go it alone. There's also the simple fact that most people don't think like that, and unless you get on a path that supports it (remember, you need to be taught a path RAW), you will go feral thinking like that.

All of this being secondary to my statement of "the original vitae system works better even if you want a drama about humanity loss and vampirism as a curse". I'm not gonna tell you you can't play as an abject monster if your group is cool with it.

>>96411726
…and what happens when the story action has nothing to do with a player’s touchstone?
For example, John the Brujah’s touchstone is his grandfather from his mortal life. Gramps lives in California. John is in Boston.

>>96411753
tl;dr: i’d win

Cain
Child
Jihad
The Worm
The Wild
Your character didn't forget how to spell after the embrace/first change, right?

>>96411792
Technically no, but then, I tend to play illiterate characters for some reason.

>>96411792
We do not X, we Vampire Word.

>>96411430
>Sidhe of House Gwydion
So, a character that is objectively right?
Emulate Feanor.

>>96411810
shut up pyotr

>>96411810
Sheriff, lure of flames this fledgling

>>96411369
The main reason why people have a reason have to play V5 is Anarch misery porn.

>>96411792
>The Worm
Isn't it a Wurm?

>>96411855
Bhurm. Stupid autocorrect.

>read the Bastet breedbook
>in addition to their own gifts and stolen gifts from other Fera, they get access to sorcery
>they can also use mage wonders and technocracy devices up to the third dot (all paradox goes to the item not the cat)
>and if they fall they can get dark thaumaturgy from the sabbat book and demonic investments
wtf

>>96411855
>>96411869
Gurm. Stupid autocorrect.

>>96411592
*blocks your path and makes you go nappy every day*

>>96411792
>the
ye

>>96411777
pretty sure you just loose your touchstone if you can't interact with them on a somewhat regular basis.
please for the love of god, don't make me go through the corebook's dogshit layout to find the exact ruling regarding this, i beg of you

In an ideal world, the games would be two books only.

>the rules
Just the rules laid out in an organized fashion. No fluff, no filler text, nothing.
Updated as needed for balance purposes.
>the lore
900 pages of background and flavortext with the caveat, “some or all of this is lies, history is not objective.”

If the rules ever needed a complete overhaul for one reason or another, the lore would be entirely unaffected.

>>96411921
???

>>96411899
>Fortitude 10 and a big floppy hat
You were saying?

>>96411855
We're not g*rm*ns or, may Gaia forgive me for uttering this word, d*tch.

>>96410308
>Old fans are usually long term fans who are invested enough to become long term haters too
Hello from /vp/!

>>96411953
ngl, I'd be nice to be Dutch.

>>96411988
Tall, bicycles, licorice, foul-smelling cheese. What’s not to like?

>>96411717
>shit like that does nothing except put everyone in a rotten mood.
Are you lost? This isn't reddit.

>>96411871
Them and the weeb foxes too. Authors clearly had favorites.

>>96411950
>Needs a 10 dot to block the sun
>The Settites and Osirians stop killing each other to share a laugh

Do any of the books ever mention if a vampire takes less damage from fire if he covers himself in retardant gel?

>>96412066
>if I can’t feel happiness, I’ll feel anger
>if I have to be unhappy, everyone else must as well

I was not surprised when anon said the problem with the touchstone rule is that people don’t care about anyone irl and so can’t imagine how to rp it.

>>96412105
No, mainly because the writers didn't think about that kind of stuff when they wrote the rules. We didn't even get the stats for firefighter clothes.

>>96411753
i already punched your head clean off three times in the time you are writing this longass diatribe

>>96411742
Don't Rest Your Head...

>>96411934
In a perfect world, men like me would not exist. But this is not a perfect world.

>TQ
Order of Hermes and Dreamspeaker are neats.
If I can include Crafts, Taftâni is one of my favourites as well.

>>96398484
Excellent work as always, anon!

>>96407043
Source for this drawing?

>>96412124
There is that and how people don't really want to give each character a subplot about their connection.

>>96412770
>Dreamspeaker
Fuckers underestimate the dreamspeakers - until the spirits rape them Awake.

>>96412080
With the Bastet, it's clearly because the book was written by Satyr. Kitsune don't get the capacity to use Mage wonders, just the sorcery, and the Doshi auspice smells like centipede venom for it.

One of my long-time friends convinced me to ST again since he knows I know a lot about MtAw and

>>96411059
>I always thought blood points/blood pool was actually a really good system (even if unintentional) as long as you weren't playing with someone allergic to roleplaying.
I totally agree with you. That is the whole deal with WoD/CofD: You have to enjoy RPing and entwining both aspects to have an enjoyable experience.
But people who can't do this just goes around saying "Blood Points is just Mana system for D&D Wizard" because they themselves were never used to roleplay when a Wizard is running out of power or ST never bothered to enforce this little aspect. They just play this aspect of VTM as resources management. Is it wrong to play like that? No. Are they losing an interesting part of roleplay playing like that? Yes, but if they don't care to put effort on that, it's on them, not on the system.
I think for those people, the idea of V5 making Hunger as a random system give them the thrill of betting and they don't feel like putting an extra effort to roleplay a thirsty vampire.
In the end, it's just lazyness and lack of imagination on their part.

>>96412879
I come from a country where all those shamanic/spiritual/etc beliefs, which writers used to build Dreamspeakers, are fairly normal and present in our day-to-day life. It just makes sense in my head.

>>96413240
my nigga

>>96412770
Here you go
https://x.com/ion_awr/status/1960190552860746055

One of my long-time friends convinced me to ST again since he knows I know a lot about MtAw and I agreed on STing. It's a game I like and I'm playing with people I enjoy company with.
I'm using my own London scenario using "Shadows of the UK" as a base. It was a scenario I gave up completing years ago and I'm glad I can finish my own work. Just a bit anxious on how things are gonna go, but I know everything will went well!

>>96411059
>I always thought blood points/blood pool was actually a really good system (even if unintentional) as long as you weren't playing with someone allergic to roleplaying.
I totally agree with you. That is the whole deal with WoD/CofD: You have to enjoy RPing and entwining both aspects to have an enjoyable experience.
But people who can't do this just goes around saying "Blood Points is just Mana system for D&D Wizard" because they themselves were never used to roleplay when a Wizard is running out of power or ST never bothered to enforce this little aspect. They just play this aspect of VTM as resources management. Is it wrong to play like that? No. Are they losing an interesting part of roleplay playing like that? Yes, but if they don't care to put effort on that, it's on them, not on the system.
I think for those people, the idea of V5 making Hunger as a random system give them the thrill of betting and they don't feel like putting an extra effort to roleplay a thirsty vampire.
In the end, it's just lazyness and lack of imagination on their part.

>>96412879
I come from a country where all those shamanic/spiritual/etc beliefs, which writers used to build Dreamspeakers, are fairly normal and present in our day-to-day life. It just makes sense in my head.

>>96413131
>and the Doshi auspice smells like centipede venom for it
They smell like venom because they stole wyrm magic, not mortal sorcery. None of the other weeb-auspices get wyrm taint for practicing mortal sorcery(not that WtA20 bothered to remember that distinction)

>>96412731
Elaborate.

>>96413131
Gotta love how brucato loves making his super special splats overpowered as hell, but does his absolute damnest to nerf mages whenever he gets the chance.

>>96413311
>there’s no way they could just prefer a thing that I don’t like. It must be because they’re lazy and uncreative.

>>96412840
I’ve had people tell me straight up: my character doesn’t care about people. Didn’t in life, doesn’t in death.

And, honestly, that’s perfectly fair. I make sure, though, that they understand that regaining any lost Humanity will be extraordinarily difficult which, since we play social-heavy games, becomes a real handicap real quickly.

>>96413618
I love that the same sentiment has been applied to Blood Points vs. Hunger AND to Bloodlines & "special clans" in this thread. Goos 'ol classic gamer smug elitism.

>>96413759
>Goos 'ol classic gamer smug elitism
>He says in a smug, morally-elitist accent

>>96401442 (OP)
>ST confession time
Every game I’ve ever run has been the plot of a movie. Sometimes it’s not even particularly subtle.
I’ve only ever been called out on it once, because one of the players was a huge fan of the Hunt for Red October.

>>96413759
>I love that the same sentiment has been applied to
…literally every aspect of this game for 35 years. I don’t know why, but we all just sort of accept a level of gatekeeping behavior in this game that is unacceptable in other ttrpg communities.

My guess is because the first players set the culture and those first players were faggy theater kids.

Why would any player need smarts? Like, smash things until something good happens.

>>96413896
You need to be just smart enough to know not to smash the good thing when in pops up.

>>96408399
Tell me more about W5 I've just come here after being out of the loop for years.

>>96411323
How is it?

I miss the Shadow N Essence forum...

>>96414011
>Tell me more about W5 I've just come here after being out of the loop for years.
You know Forsaken? that but worse.

>>96414065
are there any good forums around still?

>>96414072
I'm not sure. I quit going to RPG.net over a decade ago. And despite using Reddit daily, I don't visit any relevant subreddits for roleplaying.

>>96414068
It didn't really take much from Forsaken

>>96411430
>without being an arrogant stuck-up prick
This is what you should be striving for. You're a sidhe, being an asshole is your bread and butter.

>>96414138
Yeah, Forsaken has so much cool shit W5 wishes it had
>The Pure
>Idigam
>Geryo
>Azlu and Beshilu

I realize I'm just listing Forsaken antagonists. Forsaken has a lot of cool enemies.

>>96414197
Hosts are just the better concept than Changing Breeds. Horrifying instead of only fursuit-gross.

>>96414274
I don't think the issue with the Changing Breeds is conceptual. If a Werewolf is fine, there are other supernatural animal-shapeshifters with as much if not more mythological precedence than them. And as for the ones that don't, not everything needs to be grounded in mythology.

The problem they run into is, I think downwind of one of my major problems with Apocalypse... the Fera don't seem to be that innately monstrous. Their dickassery is often a choice, and they're stacked up against even worse people all the time so they come off as more like a race of magical animal people than something that fits within the purview of horror. And many Fera don't have anywhere near the rage, sins of the father, and chronic roid rage that can make the Garou still feel like genuine monsters.

But that's not to say I dislike all of them. Rokea are deranged fuckheads who attack surface dwellers as a matter of course. Ananasi drink blood like vampires and have a very inhuman mindset. Mokole are giant, freaky lizard people convinced of their racial superiority while mostly inhabiting the peripheries of backwaters. Hosts are cool, but I'm not against other, similar to werewolf shapeshifters.

>>96414011
Werewolf the Apocalypse (much like a lot of the old World of Darkness) has always been a weird game full of weird shit, from incestuous eugenics to ethnic stereotypes to megacorporations selling demon beer to make men beat their wives more in order to accelerate the apocalypse to the basic premise of magical furry eco-terrorists trying to save the world from a death god and his cultists. A lot of this shit is wild and off-putting to some people, but it binds together to create a unique setting that drew a lot of fans, albeit not nearly as many as Vampire the Masquerade.
What do you think happens when a new corporation acquires the IP and assigns a handful of people who never liked or "got" Werewolf the Apocalypse the task of remaking it for modern day sensibilities, in a more grounded and street-level and lower-stakes version of the World of Darkness?
The result is W5. It's Werewolf the Apocalypse with all of the weird shit taken out, and nothing new put in to replace it.
The weird werewolf breeding shit is gone, so how do werewolves reproduce now? Who knows. Some people are just naturally werewolves, there's no explanation for it.
The weird ethnic stereotypes are gone, so what's the unifying factor of tribes now? There isn't one really, just a vague guiding philosophy for each tribe, with so much overlap they don't have much of a point.
The weird goofy megacorporation schemes are gone, so how does PENTEX try to end the world now? They just do normal banal corporate shit without anything special involved, in some cases they're not trying to end the world, they're just making a profit.
The weird and convoluted history of the setting has been cut out, what has replaced it? Nothing. Werewolves are canonically so bad at keeping track of things that each pack will have its own personal lore and tables are expected to come up with their own version of what has happened. There is no unified history.

>>96413520
I know. It was a poetic expression.

>>96413533
That's nothing compared to the ludicrous overpowering that he gave weretigers in Cod: Changing Breeds. Higher Strength and Stamina in their war forms than the elephant and rhino changers! And then he or some other writer had the gall to accuse people who would play weredinosaurs as being "overpowered" in a preachy "make your own breed" section...

>>96414274
No, my fun is great, your fun is wrong and bad.

>>96414397
>incestuous eugenics

Except that the only thing that's likened to incest results in sterile children.

>death god
More like Death, the phenomenon, that's been turned inside out by Stability and become a hateful, aimless idiot god with a pantheon of evil, more cognizant deities that want to keep said idiot got as he is, because otherwise, they would cease to exist.

>goofy megacorporation

The sad thing is, we now know that corporate practice is actually that sketchy, over the top, and dumb. The least realistic thing from thrillers is actually that such antagonists have to change or face consequences after being outed.

>>96414397
Even the basic premise gets torn apart. The death god that is the Wyrm isn't necessarily evil at all, it's just destroying things because that's what it does and the werewolves have failed so badly at maintaining the balance that the Apocalypse has happened as uneventfully as possible, and Gaia is irrevocably dying. By trying to stop it, werewolves have only made it worse, and all werewolf player-character are expected to do is look after their own individual corners of the world as everything slowly dies around them. W5 is less about fighting the Apocalypse, more about accepting defeat gracefully, with one of the major antagonists being the "Cult of Fenris" who refused to do so and are now rage monsters who care about nothing but fighting the Wyrm and PENTEX.
This goes as far as the gameplay. Players spent too much time in crinos form due to there being no disadvantage to it if you weren't around humans, so it's become an extremely limited form that you can only maintain if you're killing something every turn or if you're spending Willpower every turn. Players spent too much time in the Umbra fucking around with spirits, so the Umbra is now hostile and a ritual is required to enter it and leave it and every scene that players spend in the Umbra requires Willpower to be spent. That's a running theme, actually. Do you want to do anything cool that's connected to being a werewolf? You better get ready to spend your extremely limited pool of Willpower.
The final result is a hollow shell of a game that hates itself and hates you for playing it and wants to make you as miserable as the writers were when they heard they had to work on a Werewolf the Apocalypse game.
>>96414492
Many Kinfolk communities are depicted as inbred backwater towns and villages where the same families have been encouraged to breed exclusively with each other to keep the blood pure, and Pure Breed in particular demands the inbreeding of specific bloodlines.

>>96414527
Ah, so it's yet another case of "players were having too much fun and we can't allow that"?
Oh boy, I can't wait for M5. You thought the Avatar Storm was bad? You thought W20 was misery porn?
M5 is going to make you become a Hollow One in real life with how depressingly shit it's going to be.

>>96414527
Very few kin communities actually are depicted that way; the presentation you're citing tended to be rare and extremely antagonistic ones that had ventured into Texas Chainsaw Massacre-The Hills Have Eyes crossover territories primarily given over to the Dancers. Even Bone Gnawer Hillfolk communities get a better shake than this.

This is on top of communities of kin being presented as rare and Garou often emerging from kin scattered on the wind.

>>96414560
Maybe I'm just imposing my own urbanite perception on the Kinfolk as they're written then. When I read about tight-knit rural communities with a focus on breeding exclusively within that community, my mind tends to leap to stereotypes about inbreeding.

But inbreeding is still very important to the maintenance of Pure Breed across the generations and the eugenics stuff does feature in the background, what with maintaining communities of Kinfolk as breeding stock, even if they have other purposes on top of that.

>>96414660
Pure Breed needed to be renamed back in Revised. Just like how Past Life became Ancestors.

I feel like there was a piece of lore about Nosferatu playing online games like CS 1.6 when there's nothing going on but I can't remember if it was an official thing or if it's something someone here said

>>96414687
i can't put it into words why, but it is the game that to me feels the most nosferatu from the vibe so i could see it

>>96414687
Pretty sure there was even a joke/reference to that in VTMB.

>>96414274
The shifters from WatP were pretty horrifying. As were the ones from Skinchangers. The WoD Changing Breeds book, of course, is utter trash.
It be nice if WtF got the same STV treatment as VtR, CtL and DtR. WtF2 is nice, but there's room for expansion on Hosts, Lodges, other shifters, etc.

>>96414197
I think the Tribes have a lot of fun stuff to them, there are some really great Lodges, I think the Gifts are just much more interesting over all. Also, magaths.

>>96415083
Chris Allen has 3 books planned for elders, the shadow, and hosts, but not sure when those will happen as he's got a load of health stuff going on.

>>96411430
>What's the kind of mentality that I should try to emulate without being an arrogant stuck-up prick?
In Gwydion's case? Put your money where your mouth is about those fancy ideals you parade out. When someone needs assurance that you mean it when you're going to see something done, put yourself under a magic Oath to see it through. When someone considered "no good" or repellent in some manner (like a hideous creature) comes to you, hear them out without prejudice and judge them by their actions rather than their reputation. Be decisive but wise, and above all, remind yourself that everything you do is for another: for your House's honor, for the people you love, for the fellow Kithain you rule above or alongside.

And if someone comes along and tries to spit in your face about the honesty of what you do and your intent - or are cruel enough to take advantage of it to try and stab you in the knee - you make them pay for the idea.

You're the best of the Fae and you have an example to set. And god almighty, you'll prove it.

>>96415113
WtF has the best set of antagonists of any WoD game, old and new, by a huge margin.
>hosts
Hopefully fleshing out the existing ones instead of introducing yet more types.

>>96408399
>M5
Will there be fifth editions for the other games as well, like Wraith5, Changeling5, Demon5 or KotE5?

>>96415280
It all depends on whether Bloodlines 2 is successful.
If it's mildly profitable we'll get M5, and if M5 performs okay then we might get something else. If it flops they may even cancel M5 or make it a kickscammer.
But out of those I think Changeling might be the most likely one to happen. KotE have been essentially retconned out of existence, devs hated Wraith anyways and Demon would probably be a no-go too.

>>96407732
may I see it?

>>96415435
>It all depends on whether Bloodlines 2 is successful.
There's not enough smug anime girl pics to express the correct response to this.

can Demons breed with humans/at all? Like, are Cambions, Succubi/Incubi real (in oWoD I mean) or no? What about Earthbounds? What does "Earthbound" even mean for a Demon? Are they a physical creature that is bound to Earth instead of being a semi-divine being bound to Hell? Is it like a permanent, inescapable form of Possession? Kupala is bound to a mountain range, but some sources claim this wasn't always the case, was he still "Earthbound" when he could actually walk the Earth?
>why ask?
One of the Antagonists/Characters I am co-writing about could possibly be an Earthbound Demon, but I don't know enough about Demons to tell if it's even possible. Maybe all his "children" are just heavily mutated as a result of the Infernalist pacts their founders made? Can Demons do to humans what Banes can and turn them into mutant/monsters ala Fomorians?

>>96415851
yeah that's how Nephilim are made
although apparently they all just... forgot how to sex with them? which is why there were never anymore Nephilim once Lucifer put a stop to it but it's possible the Earthbound either figured it out independently or was either involved or taught how to by a demon that was involved in the original creation.

High Umbra demons can also fuck and create nephilim but it's not the same kind of ubercreature that Nephilim are if you understand my drift


also Earthbound do not have a physical body by default and exist as a disembodied spirit inside their reliquary but they can manifest their apocalyptic form within a certain range of their reliquary which does give them a physical form for a short time.

>>96415851
You don't need to feel like you have to use Fallen lore for your demons, just go with what you want, most other splats do.
An Earthbound is any demon that has an object for a host instead of a human. Most of them have reliquaries instead of being sealed into the literal earth like Kupala is. For example, Belial's vessel is a literal Cthulhu statue, there's one who's reliquary is a dagger.
DtF Demons technically made Nephilim with humans once way back when, but needed a particular artifact to do so, as well as some other crap, and the knowledge is pretty much lost in the modern day because everyone involved in that is either an Earthbound (Abaddon and Asmodeus) or Insane and still sealed in the Abyss (Tiamat).
Official lore is that Fallen are infertile. But like I said, you can discard this if you like. I've done so for plenty of games, even when I did use Fallen as my choice of demon.
>Can Demons do to humans what Banes can and turn them into mutant/monsters ala Fomorians?
Earthbound thralls are generally extremely mutated, but not possessed by a demon. Though Earthbound can enslave regular Fallen.

>>96415882
>>96415878
What about Leviathan? Not the fan splat (though that's also a pretty good origin choice) the Biblical, Primordial, One of a Kind, animal of the Sea, who is one day fated to fight/be hunted by God (or Jesus Christ if you are Christian)? Is there a Leviathan in World of Darkness Cosmology? I am perfectly fine with taking that as his actual origin, fits him perfectly fine, since I want Deep Ones to be a sub-splat of Vampire (though mostly independent barring Mariner Gangrel and uses of Thaumaturgy/Kuldunic Sorcery to summon Watery Minions) , so it being the Abrahamic Cosmology suits me.
Also saves me from having to read Demon the Fallen, which is a massive blessing.

>>96415435
>It all depends on whether Bloodlines 2 is successful.
I don’t know about that. That all sounds very conspiracy theorish to me. They own the IP, they’re not licensing it. Making a TTRPG is cheap compared to a video game and doesn’t need to move as many units to be profitable.
Plus, if they make a popular RPG, they can license out the IP to others for smaller scale stuff like Shadows of New York.

The thing that I believe will determine whether they make new books is simply demand. If no one wants Changeling or Mummy or whatever, then they won’t make it.

>>96415851
Demons just possess mortals so they wouldn’t create Nephilim anyways. You’re shooting normal sperm or whatever as a Fallen because Fallen have no physical form. They’re purely spiritual beings now.

Earthbound are super fucked up and strange. Their thralls are weirder than Fomorians, less just gross vomit more “grew a second head that only wants to eat human flesh” weird. Demonic weird.

>>96415796
>>96415814
That almost sounds like you don't want the game to succeed or new editions for the old games.

>>96415435
>whether Bloodlines 2 is successful
C'mon now.

>>96415991
I don’t. I’d rather just gripe about old stuff.

How can you have a multi decade/ century spanning chronicle if you know nothing of the day to day life of the past?

>>96415991
>That almost sounds like you don't want the game to succeed
Way back in the day I would've loved another Bloodlines but let's be real, it was never going to be good. After seeing the absolute abortion they made of it I just want it to be put out of its misery.

>or new editions for the old games.
Love to, but it was Paradox themselves that killed CofD on purpose so fuck 'em. I hope this flop really hurts them.

Once you capture and subjugate a low Gen vampire, what stops you from forcing it to mass embrace humans for you and your pals to diablerize to create large amounts of methuselah in a short span of time?

>>96416090
the consequences of trying to consume powerful, vindictive, low gen, human souls? The possibility that the tamed Low Gen will communicate the fate of the previous fledglings to a particularly crafty and vengeful person, who will in turn let himself get eaten by the tamed Low Gen so he can break from your Control? Filial Piety overcoming terror? Backup arriving?

One of the main reasons I'm butthurt about BL2 is, in BL1 majority of disciplines weren't implemented properly because of tech constraints, with current tech I think other than Vicissitude all of them could be implemented well, but we won't get this because the studio making it isn't competent enough
Imagine if we could get a BL game that looks and feels like Arkham Knight, a game more than a decade old now

>>96415991
Don't be coy, that's exactly what we want. Take your toxic positivity elsewhere, a skinsuit of the setting succeeding means the good stuff will fade away. Sometimes, dead is better.

>>96416132
>with current tech
It's tragicomic because it's true. With current tech, we could. With current talent? No.

>other than Vicissitude
[PROTOTYPE] (2009) says hi.

>Imagine if we could get a BL game that looks and feels like Arkham Knight, a game more than a decade old now
Thanks, now it hurts more than ever.

>>96416292
that is true and also untrue. We have both the Talent and the Tech. But the BL 2 team has neither. We must wait for a fan project in a few decades once the IP gets dropped.

>>96416043
The main thing that annoys me about CofD is how they seem to be trying to erase it. Like I heard when the Hololive Hunter the Vigil game was happening, Paradox was there in the chat saying if you want to try the game yourself, get V5. I guess this is how OWoD fags felt in the 2000s.

>>96416332
>Talent
All have retired or been bullied out of the industry by social media harpies and Sweet Baby lobbyists.

>Tech
lol no, UE5slop is all you can hope for.

>>96416040
Research it.

>>96416436
Corpos are subhuman holy shit.

Why would a vampire plaster themselves with crosses? Just for the goffik aesthetic?

>>96416699
>Just for the goffik aesthetic?
Pretty much, yeah. Being edgy and transgressive is like 95% of the game’s aesthetic.

>>96414039
Is that cum staining your mattress?

>>96416771
Believe it or not, that actually is just vanilla ice cream. I fell asleep while eating a sundae.

New Thread:
>>96416825

>>96416699
I mean, Requiem has an entire Covenant whose theme is being a Dark Clergy of the Catholic church whose job is to drive people to faith.

>>96416699
It could even be sincere. Buy into the Heresy and get a chip on your shoulder about reclaiming it as a symbol of the returned Caine.

>>96416699
Goth aesthetic is just gothic so yes the usage of crosses both upside down and regular can both be an ironic and completely authentic thing. Plenty of vampires believe in God a scarcer few believe in redemption, while some others just kind of cope and languish in semi serious piety to hang on to their scraps of morality