Thread 96422465

The only acceptable magic element are Fire, Water, Air, Earth, and Aether.
These elements have been a staple for thousands of years across every civilization in history.
From the americas to Europe to Asia.
Using anything else stupid.

>>96422465 (OP)
Similarly, only acceptable materials for tools are stone, wood and bone. They've been the staple for tens if not hundreds of thousands of years, millions if we consider our pre-homo sapiens ancestors. Using anything else is stupid.

>>96422465 (OP)
>aether
Gay
>void
Based. The absence of existence is a property in itself and is a cool element and rightfully should take aethers place.

>>96422465 (OP)
Shitposter-san, play L5R

*teleports behind you*

>>96422494
I need to know more about the part of the human body called the "triple burner," and "Summer" versus "Indian Summer."

>>96422494
The Chinese have been in a constant cycle of destroying themselves for thousands of years, all because they followed this awful and shitty elemental system btw.
If they had followed the one true system of Fire, Water, Earth, Air, and Aether they would have actually been a worthwhile society.

>>96422465 (OP)
What do you think of para-elements, OP?
Also
>Not spelling æther with an æ
Catamite.

>>96422465 (OP)
Ether is what everyone in this thread should inhale as punishment for bumping it.

Mod thread.

>>96422465 (OP)
We have a worldbuilding general. This did not need to be its own thread.

>>96422465 (OP)
Okay, so if these elements are the basis of all magic, what can magic of each element 'do' besides just manipulating the stuff of their respective elemental substances like picture related? For instance, in Avatar the energy/aether equivalent can grant or take away bending, water can heal, etc. So maybe earth magic is great at defensive spells/wards, shit like that, air can be used to scry on people, that kind of thing.

>>96423801
why do you only ever talk about the same handful of topics such as magic systems, elements, childrens' cartoons, elves and gods?

>>96422622
Indian summer is when it's hot in the late autumn.

I'll do what I want.

>>96422465 (OP)
>he doesnt work the Pokemon type chart into his campaigns
KWABOTY

>>96423822
What would (You) want us to talk about, Anon? Be specific and provide at least a handful of examples for more generally interesting topics related to the hobby.

>>96422465 (OP)
Go on, what's "aether", then? We all know the 4 classical European elements are basically stand-ins for simply states of matter, which is why they work, but retarded shit like "aether" and "void" don't fit anything.

>>96423174
To fix this, you'd need to remove Ash and replace it with Fire, put Plasma where Fire was, and replace Salt with Ice, and it would start to make more sense.

>>96423801
Bending isn't magic.

>>96422641
Vastly homosexual opinion

>>96422641
They hated him because he spoke the truth

>>96422465 (OP)
Nah. Here's my elemental system.

>>96422494
>>96426389
>Naramon = Wood
>Zenurik = Metal
>Unairu = Earth
>Vazarin = Water
>Madurai = Fire

>>96425306
Aether is the void or heavenly element

>>96426521
Which is?

>>96425844
Yeah. Sure. Whatever you say, nerd.

>>96425306
>>96426521
Aether is the "Quinta Essentia" (Fifth Essence), also known as the "Astrum", "Balsum", "Iliaster", "Protoplast", "Filius Philosophorum", "Light of Nature", or the "Inner Light" of God, Consciousness, Truth, and Wisdom.
It is the perfect union of all four elements and the inner light from the dawn of creation that connects all of us to the Primordial Man.

>>96427028
Then it can't be a fifth element if it's just a combination of all four.

>>96427028
>all these words
>it's just Light element
That means Dark is one too so there's 6.

>>96422465 (OP)
I prefer chakras.

And if Light is an element and Dark is an element then Electricity is too, cus that shit isn't Light and it's not Fire and it sure as hell isnt Air despite what some fucking retards seem to think

>>96427468
An absence isn't an element.

>>96427542
Electricity is plasma, and most fires are plasma.

>>96427472
I like Incarnum too.

>>96422465 (OP)
https://youtu.be/OJOo7TXWJT0

>>96427647
>Incarnum

I get the thematic design they probably wanted to go with but it was one of those things that didn't land along with the hyper focus on alignments.

That said, there was plenty of good shit that came out of Incarnum that should be brought forward like the Totemist or ways of incorporating the essentia mechanic.

>>96427604
Then neither is Aether cus it's not real either.

>>96422465 (OP)
Okay, what are some settings that handle the things with the elements and the magic that derives from them well? Avatar has been mentioned already, so what else works? What about stuff that will help us with creating our own elemental settings?

Fire >>>>>>>>>>> Water > Earth = Lightning > Dark/Void/Shadow = Light > Plant > literal garbage > OCDonutsteel elements > the maggots in the garbage > Air.

Special shoutout to Poison. Complete dogshit element but every game that has it as one is inexplicably better for it.

I use light magic to draw runes and magic circles in the air and onto objects.

>>96422494

Indian summer is more correctly something in between summer and actual fall. We've entering it now, actually, or we should without climate change (I mean, I'm pretty sure the month is september/first part of october)
IIRC the idea is that it's the most balanced period between east asia summer hotness/humidity and well, fall.

>>96427728
I never said it was, and I've yet to hear any coherent reason why it should be, but that doesn't change that I meant literal absence is not an element. It's not that they're not real, it's that "void" isn't something, it's an absence of something.

>>96422536
Aether and Void/Chaos should exist as opposites.

>>96428220
>it's an absence of something.
If nothingness is not a physical property, nothingness wouldn't exist. It's literally more fundamental (ELEMENTary, you could say) to existance than fucking fire is.

>>96422465 (OP)
What about necromancy and nature (mushrooms, plants and animals)?

>>96428622
You can convince yourself of that just because you lack a basic grasp of logic and mistake your ability to make words with an ability to say something sensible.

However, for something to "not be" is an existence statement. It is a subset of existence. It doesn't matter which side you look at the yes/no polarity from, it's still a statement about a single object that you can rework to see from the other perspective. Therefore, the fundamental "element" is the pole itself, because the rest is just an artifact of human language. Of course you could say that the inversion in of itself is fundamental, most people find it stupid to include "inversion" as an element, so it must manifest as a duality inherent to the structure of the elements.

Nonetheless, even if you enforce the duality in your elemental system, nothingness is never the property, its the inversion of the other element because nothingness is just an existence statement and existence is composed of the elements.

>>96422465 (OP)
Rate my elements
Fire, Water, Earth, Wind, Void, Aether, Thunder, Ice, Nature, Darkness and Light.

>>96426708
Light + gravity

>>96422465 (OP)
>the only acceptable thing is (shit I like)
Honestly we could just delete /tg/ and replace it with a pages that just says that.

>>96428622
Not even close. Nothingness is an absence of physical property. All elements were considered the foundational matter that everything was made up of. Trying to pretend that literally nothing can also be considered a type of matter is full blown retardation.

>>96429800
Those are forces, not elements. Even if I were to be generous and say you actually meant photons + gravitons, having four elements being about matter in various states, and a fifth being a combination of two types of particles, you're running into a lot of issues with internal consistency.

>>96429730
>Fire, Water, Earth, Wind
Okay.
>Void, Aether
Nonsense, as has already been shown in this thread.
>Thunder
That's just sound, which is movement of matter but not actually matter. I'm assuming you actually meant Lightning or Electricity, which as has been said is just plasma and so basically fire.
>Ice
Sort of redundant, since Earth is already solid and Ice is already a form of Water.
>Nature
Full on bullshit. How are plants, animals, fungus, and bacteria all an "element"?
>Darkness and Light
Nonsense, for effectively the same reasons as Void and Aether.

I think a lot of you need to actually decide what elements are actually supposed to be for you in the first place, you just seem to be grasping at straws. Are your elements fundamental types of matter like old European beliefs? Are they different levels of energy and so effectively states of matter? Are they associated with the planets, or emotions, or gods, or beliefs? What is their relevance to your setting's function, or are you just looking for surface-level weeb shit to categorise your anime-tier OCs into different clothing styles?

>>96424226
Is this you?
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Planar_Travel_(3.5e_Variant_Rule)#Planar_Forms

>>96429730
>rate
generic rpgmaker game/10

>>96422465 (OP)
In what system?

>>96424139
what the fuck kind of elements are these

>>96422465 (OP)
Take a guess.

>>96422465 (OP)
I want to come up with a more sciency kind of magic in contrast to the more mystical magic everyone else uses.

The idea for this is that Fire is the primary element Humans use and that everything else stems from that to include generating electricity/lightning as well as magnetism.

My hold up is how to deal with ice and cold. Should it be something like absorbing heat from the environment or just finding a way to manipulate freezing gasses or whatever?

>>96422494
In addition to this.
Why do people use Light and Darkness instead of the superior Yin and Yang, which covers the same things they try and use light and darkness for?

>>96422465 (OP)
Those five, plus the possibility of having one "outside" element, one "wrong" thing that doesn't belong and isn't part of existence and is antithetical to it, is the correct set.

Earth + Water = Salt, the body
Water + Air = Mercury, the mind
Air + Fire = Sulphur, the soul
Fire + Earth = Pitchblend, the secret fire of magic
The earthly manifestation of the Prima Materia is Hydrogen, which all matter can be reduced to and reconstituted from, though at a 50% loss.

>>96422641
Euros famously never fight each other

Avatar introduced the concept of Aether bending as Energy bending in the final episode and to this day it filters people

>>96429841
Why would we delete /tg/, when it's working as intended?

>>96429066
>>96430302
What is space made of then?

>>96434941
Nothing. It's space.

>>96435759
And if you teleport someone to space, what happens to them?

>>96431606
The system I'm making.
>>96432170
Light, Crystal, Cosmic, Mind, Wood, Wind, Fire, Lightning, Water, Ice, Earth, Metal, Sound, Spirit, and Shadow. They all tie to the Cattell 16 personality factors.
>>96427763
I hope I'm doing Poison well for my system.

Rolemaster's Elemental Companion.

5 basic elements, 5 complex elements, 4 compound elements, 2 complex compound elements, and 6 higher elements, spells from level 1 to level 100, and crit tables that make your nat 20 cry in shame.

Big screw you to your weak ass D&D.,

>>96435974
Hmmm if Poison's damage type is Shadow or Crystal it's kino.

>>96436082
Oh, I forgot to put Poison up there as its own type. But you can have use Emulate Spell to have a Magic Attack that Invokes Rot but deals Crystal-type damage.

>>96436018
I have to say, I do like ICE for publishing mega autistic books. Would I every use the whole book probably not, but it's a endless source of inspiration for Rolemaster and other systems.
Another good one is the free Herbalism guide that you can read here:
>https://republicofnewhome.org/lair/games/herb5/herb5illo1.html#contents

>>96435974
>ability point damage
Epic
>your character level
Level scaling doesn't belong in RPGs, although most posters in this thread probably like the J"RPG" genre

>>96425334
Your fix does nothing and makes even less sense.
Negative energy's para-elements are like a subtraction of the other element.
>Ash = fire - fire
>Salt = water - water
>Vacuum = air - air
>Dust = earth - earth
Ice is already the para-element of Air and Water

>>96434941
Unironically it depends on the system. That's the point. Each elemental system describes the world differently, in terms of different fundamental components. Otherwise they'd all be part of the same elemental system.

So many people in this thread fundamentally don't understand how elements work. The reason the ancients came up with Air is because they realized the "nothing" that exists between people actually takes up space and blocks things. Therefore the "nothing" that makes up the atmosphere has to be made up of something that needs to be moved out of the way. We need to describe this "something". Each elemental system has reasoning that resolves this problem and will give you an answer for what "outer space" is.

Of course you can't apply the elemental framework to our modern day understanding of the universe: our modern day understand supersedes the elemental framework. Next thing you'll ask what the 4 elements have to say about FTL travel, as if that's a gotcha question.

>>96422465 (OP)
>Aether

>>96437770
>Next thing you'll ask what the 4 elements have to say about FTL travel, as if that's a gotcha question
No I was gonna ask what damage type does the vacuum of space deal.

>>96437846
Suffocation

>>96437846
Emotional damage

>>96437875
>Suffocation
Genuinely the least of your problems in the vacuum of space

>>96435939
They freeze to death and die.

>>96437677
No, you're just confused. Negative energy is removing ENERGY not matter.

>>96438777
It's magic elements, not elements from the periodic table. Negative and Positive energy are elements in this case.

>>96438783
And they're about the energy involved. Water + water doesn't make steam, that just makes more water, but adding more energy to water WOULD make steam. Air + air would make higher pressure, but adding energy to air WOULD make lightning. It's laughably retarded to try to suggest negative energy with water is just water - water.

>>96438777
If that was the case, water + negative would be ice, not fucking salt.

>>96438895
Hence my post here >>96425334

Do try to keep up.

>>96437496
I wanted to keep the amount of spells small but meaningful so the system's light. I might get rid of it when I feel more confident with how stats scale at higher levels. It's also a system I'm fleshing out after its original use: WoW RP.

>>96438870
>And they're about the energy involved
You're still approaching this like real-world science applies to the cosmology of a fantasy setting where magic is as real as gravity. Each of those elements is the quintessence of what it represents, including the "energies" of Positive and Negative. Remove the quintessence of water from itself and you only have what is not water left. That's what the para-element of salt represents.

While we're at it, why don't you tell the thread how Sigil doesn't make any sense because it's a city inside a torus floating "on top" of an infinite spike of land in the center of the Outer Planes which are where Good, Evil, Law, and Chaos are given form. Pic related. It's the full image from >>96423174

>>96438974
>video game hub-world map design
Complete trash.

>>96438974
No, I'm approaching it with what is shown. Water - water is not salt, they're saying water + negative is salt (and I say it should be ice). Water - water would be nothing, because as you've said, water is the quintessence of water. So add negative and you're not removing water, you're adding negative. Add positive and you're not adding water, you're adding positive. Which is why it's very obvious that positive implies more energy (seriously, just look at what the main elements become when it's added), and negative implies less (fire with less energy becomes ash, earth with less energy becomes dust).

>>96422465 (OP)
How can mystical elements like this coexist with the periodic table elements?

>>96441476
>Gases
Air
>Solids
Earth
>Liquids
Water
>All other states of matter
Fire
Aether being the fundamental forces of reality like Time, Space, Gravity, etc

>>96441476
As soon as you start worldbuilding at the atomic level, you're wasting your time.

>>96433358
I mostly really like Warframe's take on a rough scifi elemental system. Every elemental damage type also has a status effect that can happen. Some are videogamey, but some could be adapted well to a TTRPG.

Physical damage types (most weapons are combinations of these):
- impact: dazes and opens to finishers
- puncture: damage reduction and crit vulnerability
- slash: bleed DoT

Primary elements:
- heat: fire DoT, armor melting
- toxin: always bypasses shields, poison DoT
- cold: slow/freeze
- electric: chaining electric DoT

Compound elements:
- gas (heat+toxin): AoE gas cloud that has DoT
- blast (heat+cold): AoE explosion after short delay or on death
- radiation (heat+electric): confusion
- viral (toxin+cold): health damage vulnerability
- corrosive (toxin+electric): melts armor
- magnetic (cold+electric): shield damage vulnerability

Other:
- void (basically psychic): bullet magnetism
- tau (misc, very rare): status vulnerability

Although if I were using this in a TTRPG, I'd probably scramble them a bit, like:
- corrosive (toxin+heat): melts armor
- plasma (heat+electric): ?
- radiation (toxin+electric): scrambles shield
- magnetic (cold+electric): bullet magnetism
- void: confusion

>>96442285
>four of the elements are simple states of matter
>the fifth is reality-warping domination of the time-space continuum itself
This is why Aether is a retarded concept, it just doesn't match up.

>>96427702
Pf1 has Veilweaving, which is effectively the same thing but without the alignment baggage.

World War D has 16 elements, subdivided into four types for null/resist/drain/repel/weakness defenses
==Elemental==
Fire
Flood ( Water/Ice)
Storm ( Wind/Elec)
Soil ( Plant/Earth)
==Physica==
Metal ( Slashing)
Force ( Bludgeoning)
Rush ( Piercing)
Havoc ( Guns or violent tearing go here)
==Technical==
Gravity
Nuclear
Psychic
Digital
==Spiritual==
Bright
Dark
Lunar
Occult

>>96444571
warframe does have a very nice element system. I quite like their innovation of red crit too.

>>96422465 (OP)
You forgot wood.

>>96422465 (OP)
Swap aether to Heart and you've got a deal.

>>96451809
What exactly IS “Heart” in this context? I never really watched the show.

>>96455172
Empathy, cooperation and spiritual connection to nature. It gave the power to communicate with animals but not control. I recall one episode they're all in the ocean and Mati (kid with Heart) tries to talk a shark into helping. The shark understands the situation but is still hungry so he's gonna eat them anyway.

>>96446457
>you can't round out the fundamental components of the universe with an all-encompassing aspect

>>96457331
>part of the whole is also the whole

>>96455544
>The shark understands the situation but is still hungry so he's gonna eat them anyway.
I thought that sharks rarely attack humans? Was it just a jerk?

>>96457847
Hologram principle. Shatter a hologram and, if the pieces are large enough, each would contain the whole image.
Since you can't quite shatter reality itself, you single out a portion of the element from the whole, purging the other elements from it.
>individual elements are all just facets of the all-encompassing "element"
I'd argue said element should not be available to PCs, at least not without going to great length to acquire the means or knowledge of how to manipulate it.

>>96462373
Problem is that you're equating pieces of a shattered image with the production of the hologram itself. They're not the same or equivalent, same as how Aether is not the same or equivalent to the four elements.

>>96422536
Aether is the greek duct tape element though? While void was that one japanese element of the mind, replacing either wood or metal in the chinese 5 together with air

>>96446457
>>96457331
>>96457847
This anon put it best >>96463077
>Aether is the greek duct tape element
Aether is supposed to be everything the other 4 elements are not.

Kinda makes sense why it doesnt really work as an element anymore, we studied reality more and discovered that Aether was more than just 1 thing. Now we know its got Light and Void and Gravity and Time and whatever else

>>96463149
And that is exactly why Aether doesn't work. If elements are literally elemental, then there can't be a fifth "misc." element that's for a bunch of other stuff, it only tells you your elements aren't complete and those in the bin need to be sorted as well.

>>96462373
Yeah literal reality warping should not be accessible. Why I don’t let players take the more broken spells.

>>96463149
That's just as true for every other element. Air is made up of component gases, Earth is made up of different metals and minerals. Only Water really has a pure form that we can talk about but it's not actually elemental because it can be deconstructed into hydrogen and oxygen.

The fact you can't imagine Aether in the modern world, but can for the other 4 elements, is a failure of both your understanding and imagination.

>>96422465 (OP)
voidfags ww@?

>>96468841
>The fact you can't imagine Aether in the modern world
It's not that it can't be, it's that doing so requires making Aether everything the other 4 aren't, which since we've invented electricity and telescopes, we have discovered that's a lot of things. It is unironically an element born from ignorance.

>>96424139
>>96435974
>the playing cards don't represent the element of surprise
My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined

>>96444571
I do have to wonder, what is the virus being created by viral? Is it AIDS?

>>96451532
The fact that game lets you just straight up mod anything for overcrit or multishot is a big factor in why I'm still playing. Firing a grenade and getting 4 more than it's supposed to shoot is just exquisite.

>>96434886
They did, but only the anglos made any progress in destroying them, until the americans succeeded

>>96422465 (OP)
heart yoo fool

Sweet, sour, salt, bitter and umami.

These are the forces that shape our universe, as governed by their respective elemental oversouls, bound to reality by the will of the Gastronomicon.

>>96474592
>bound to reality by the will of the Gastronomicon.
What is it, a cookbook?

>>96422494
Metal is just Earth though

>>96422465 (OP)
>any element but the element of surprise

>>96474592
>>96482809
Kek

>>96461853
Real sharks rarely attack humans.
Cartoon sharks do it every chance they get.

>>96470525
In real life, yeah. In a fantasy game, the luminiferous aether extends from the upper range of earth's air to the fixed sphere that the stars are painted on, with the planets being moved through it by the angels or gods that rule them.

>>96433287
>Anima
Holy based
More of a ki guy myself thoughbeit

>>96422465 (OP)
The only two elements I respect is Surprise and Rape. In that order.

>>96485175
>Surprise
Discworld actually has that as an element.

>>96470535
>what is the virus being created by viral?
Whatever it is, it can't be entirely organic, since it affects even robotics. But many enemies on Deimos are immune to it, so it's probably related to the Infestation, which is a techno-organic nanite plague that can reconfigure matter on the molecular level. It might also just be literal magic. The Alchemy game mode fairly explicitly states that the elemental damage types aren't based on any real world science, but on actual alchemy.

>>96470535
The only thing I don't like about Warframe is that I can't hurl racial epithets in region chat without being sent straight to 2035. So I can't share my account with my little brother, because that's the first thing he always does. If it were a permanent chat ban, that'd be totally fair. Otherwise, this game would be perfect.

>>96422465 (OP)
What are the most important things to consider when designing an elemental system? Besides not adding so many elements that it nearly rivals the IRL periodic table of course.

>>96495162
Depends on the purpose, bumpfag. Now let this bullshit thread die already.