Thread 96441201

Previous Thread >>>>96341983

The thread to talk about Super Heroes/Villains/Spies/Agents/Rogues be it in spandex or not.

Popular Choices for Games:

>Mutants & Masterminds
Currently the most played one, uses a d20 resolution for everything, has powers building and rules for tactical combat.

>Marvel TSR/ FASERIP
Classic Supers game from the 80s, still has a lot of fans and various retro-clones. Uses a d100 with an universal resolution table to decide the degree of success, has random character generation and abstract rules for powers and combat.

>Masks (PbtA)
Rules light game with focus on narrative. Less rules reading more making stuff up on the moment. Game is built on the concept of playing as young heroes but you can use it for more mature settings.

TQ: How big are the rogue's gallery in your games?

>>96441201 (OP)
>TQ: How big are the rogue's gallery in your games?
Not too big since my group usually runs short five session mini campaigns, there are a few proper villains but the big capital V villains are usually a big payoff at the end of the campaign.

>>96441201 (OP)
What are some villainous archetypes besides the petty crook/thug with powers, the evil CEO, the mad scientist, the eco-terrorist, the alien invader, and the evil AI? And what types of villains do you prefer, and what have you done with them?

>>96441626
>What are some villainous archetypes besides the petty crook/thug with powers, the evil CEO, the mad scientist, the eco-terrorist, the alien invader, and the evil AI?
The assassin, the cultist/cult leader, the fallen hero, the femme fatale, the strawman of the ideology I don't like.
>And what types of villains do you prefer
The villains have to
A) challenge the player
B) Be memorable and fun
>what have you done with them?
Mostly small campaigns with big payoffs. One of the games I was in used the cultist and assassin archetype to great effect.

>>96441626
>>96441753
I'm a sucker for the flirtatious thief.

https://youtu.be/aI4mhfcMF9M?si=5hQI6Ayk4whg9-Pu

Black Cat and Catwoman immediately spring to mind. Mutants and Masterminds has Magpie, Sentinels of the Multiverse has Ermine...

>>96441201 (OP)
>animal morphing
How can you keep this power relevant in the big leagues? Like, maybe not take on someone like Superman one on one, but able to stay alive and be relevant in fights at that tier?

>>96441989
>How can you keep this power relevant in the big leagues? Like, maybe not take on someone like Superman one on one, but able to stay alive and be relevant in fights at that tier?
Why turn into one animal at a time? Why not 10? Why not 100?

>>96441201 (OP)
What mad scientist villains have you included in your supers setting? I've done thinly veiled copies of these two in the past, but I want to do something more original going forward, especially since my next group has some people more likely to notice. Speaking of, what are the most important things to consider with mad scientist villains, especially where and how they get the resources they need to be legitimate threats? Because I can't keep hand-waving that. Tried asking last thread but it died before anyone responded.

Here's some less popular superhero games that might be worth checking out:
>Silver age Sentinels/Absolute Power (Tri Stat System)
>Aberrant/Trinity Continuum (Story Teller System)
>DC Super Heroes (MEGS)
>Champions (HERO system)

>>96441989
Why wouldn't it be relevant?

>>96442391
Owning a corporation, misappropriation of grant money, and organized crime are the usual ones

>>96442391
Yeah, how does Wily always have a new castle ready or the stuff he needs to make his robots while on the run? He’s got to have a way to make money somehow. Same for similar villains.

>>96441843
>I'm a sucker for the flirtatious thief.
>Black Cat and Catwoman immediately spring to mind
Does Gambit from X Men count as a male version of this trope or am I reaching?

>>96442391
The mad scientist doesn't have to be an everything expert, you can have a mad biologist, a mad chemist, a mad nuclear physicist, mad psychologist or even a mad dentist. One of the characters I want to use in a future game is a mad scientist obsessed with uplifting animals to human intelligence, while enhancing his own beyond humanity so he can rule over a kingdom of sentient walruses as a god king.

>>96445084
If he were allowed to be a thief and foil to a hero like Rogue, yeah, he's got the personality and the charm for it. Unfortunately, mutants are their own...genre of hero. The Flirtatious Thief usually only interacts with a more solitary type of hero that patrols a city.

>>96444269
Thanks! Though I have to say that, while the former two might work to help my mad scientists get off the ground, that won't work as well later in their careers, and dealing with organized crime would be difficult if they want to keep a low profile while working on something big, it's a good start!

>>96445894
>so he can rule over a kingdom of sentient walruses as a god king.
Why specifically walruses of all creatures?

>>96445067
Yeah, that's what I need to consider, especially if one of my players is going to be a detective-type hero like Batman. If you can think of anything new it would be a great help please!

>>96447923
>Why specifically walruses of all creatures?
Walruses are adept at surviving in cold climates, the mad scientist wants to drastically cool the planet to destroy humanity as it exists now, clearing the room for our future semi aquatic overlords.

>>96447923
Try describing the context in which your character exists and what his goals are

>>96447923
Why would owning a corporation stop producing money?

>>96448115
>Why would owning a corporation stop producing money?
I was talking about after they make their villainous debut and/or the heroes finding proof of their actions and forcing them to go on the run.

>>96448107
A renegade scientist on the run trying to create an army of artificial minions to conquer the world, trying to build their resources and forces while limiting their villainous actions and ties to major criminal groups so they fly under the radar of heroes focused on more immediate threats until it's too late for the heroes to easily stop them.

>>96441989
Why wouldn't it be relevant?

>>96441201 (OP)
I’m thinking that the heroes and villains in my supers setting will draw their power at least partially from the collective unconsciousness of humanity, almost always with realizing it. In doing so, they align with one or more archetypes/patterns that powers can fall into. There’s super-tech heroes like Iron Man, mad scientist villains, flying bricks like Superman, chessmaster villains, size-changers like the Atom, psychics, speedsters like the Flash, elemental manipulators, plant controllers, ones with animal-themed aesthetics/powers like Wolverine, magic users and others who get their abilities from the supernatural side of things, etc. Obviously there’s some overlap in a number of cases, like Reed Richards being both a super genius and stretchy, but what other archetypes can you think of?

>>96441989
Why wouldn't it be relevant?

>>96441989
Why wouldn't it be relevant?

>>96441201 (OP)
In my world all supers are some variety of psychic, drawing from an infinite plane of mental energy, but where do ‘your’ heroes and villains derive their powers from? The energy for all those lasers and shit has to come from ‘somewhere’, doesn’t it?

Wherever the player decides it does, obviously.

>>96448336
>>96452778
>>96454383
I see retardposting has replaced imagebumping on these threads

I'll stop when I get an answer, and not one millisecond before.

I suppose Zorro comes close enough to a superhero that I can say I really like how the Zorro RPG handles vigilante's secret identity. Character may gain up to three hero points (used for re-rolls, result doubling, stun avoidance and character advancement) in his civilian persona by reinforcing the secret identity, publicly acting in a way his vigilante persona would not act. Character may alternatively gain instant hero point by intentionally walking on the edge in a way that reveals clues of his vigilante alter ego. Suspicion rating climbing high makes exposure more likely, and when it happens the character can either just go public as a vigilante and live in the fringes, or try to clear his name in some major undertaking. This of course requires kind of a setting where PCs stand out in their civilian personas.
The game is up on the current share thread.

>>96442391
Doctor Zero is one of my setting's major villains!

>>96441989
Animal Man, Beast Boy (Changeling, Menagerie) and Vixen are all very powerful characters who can contribute hugely to a team dynamic because their powers and abilities are non-static. While they might not be the most powerful member of their team at every given moment, the sheer variety of abilities at their disposal makes them hugely useful almost all the time.

>>96441989
BB's awesome.

Has anyone checked out the M&M4e playtest yet? What are your thoughts?

>>96459133
>Doctor Zero is one of my setting's major villains!
I'd love to hear more about him please!

>>96459269
He's generally a background villain, operating mostly through one of those smaller ARGUS drones you see hovering behind him. Primarily a roboticist, he is responsible for accidentally creating his heroic arch-nemesis, Apex, and has become consumed by the idea of replicating the circumstances of that transformation for himself. He has become increasingly desperate to achieve that goal over the years, as Apex seemingly resists the ravages of time in a way that Zero cannot.

Pic related is Apex, but I'm in the process of redesigning him to be less obviously "Superman."

>>96459473
Oops; I forgot to attach Apex. I took a few minutes to redesign him a little bit; he used to be wearing a blue costume and have an exposed face.

>>96459256
I like the return to six attributes and how skills are handled now; they were too expensive in 3rd edition.

>>96459473
>Primarily a roboticist, he is responsible for accidentally creating his heroic arch-nemesis, Apex, and has become consumed by the idea of replicating the circumstances of that transformation for himself.
How did he accidentally create Apex?

>>96461176
>>96459805
>>96459133
In a standard cape-setting origin: an experimental nuclear dynamo exploded, bathing Apex in a wave of bizarre energy, altering his physiology and granting him superhuman abilities.

>>96441201 (OP)
>Mutant (in Marvel universe)
>doesn't like either the X-Men nor any other mutant supremist groups
>still considers himself human with just some extra bits
Thoughts?

>>96441989
Why wouldn't it be relevant?

>>96461508
I think that while it is an mildly interesting question, it has very little to do with games, and would probably be better suited to /co/.

>>96462307
What question? He didn't communicate anything.

>>96441989
Beast Boy gets mythical creatures and alien wildlife to hit harder, though that's a little too "random bullshit go" for me, the restriction of real animals breeds innovation

>>96441989
Why wouldn't it be relevant?

>>96441989
Animal Forms is quite strong for its cost, it's nearly as versatile as a narrow Omni Power while only costing two thirds as much, and doesn't have the unique drawbacks of Omni Power. What would prevent it from being relevant at any power level?

>>96465012
In M&M2e, a Variable Power is 8 points per rank, with each rank giving you 5 points to spend more or less however you want. Beast Boy limits that by, 1, being only able to transform into animals, and 2, only ever being green. This turns an 8p/r power into a 6p/r, which is enormously more affordable and only barely less powerful.

>>96465085
Okay? Is this supposed to be answering my question? I don't get why you replied to me.

>>96442391
I put much stock in a super-genius character whose arc starts like silver age Lex Luthor, but mellows out into more of an anti-heroic doctor who. It's a lot of fun to write over the top schemes/adventures with sophisticated (hard) sci-fi gadgetry.
>resources
Half his income is from extorting pharmaceutical companies with an omni-cure for all diseases he threatens to release unless paid regularly. Corporate assassins are occasionally sent after him but he is always prepared. The rest is grand larceny, shell companies, and selling inventions on the black market. Also his tech is powered by dark energy he collects with casual space travel.

>>96441989
Why wouldn't it be relevant?

How do you come up with interesting powers?

>>96468052
That's irrelevant. The key is to come up with interesting characters.

>>96469021
It'd be less insulting if you just told me to fuck off.

>>96469046
You deserve to be insulted. Stop shitting up the thread with retarded questions.

>>96469059
bitter lil fella aren't you

>>96469076
No, not at all. Stop shitting up the thread.

>>96469021
I'm sorry; I wasn't intending to insult you. Can you tell me about a character you have in mind, and maybe I can suggest some powers that fit them?

>>96469170
Stop replying to yourself.

>>96469384
I meant to respond to >>96469046.

>>96441201 (OP)
Batman: Caped Crusader got me wondering, what are some good ways for my villains to launder their illicit gains (and what methods do your villains use)? The Penguin of course uses their venue of The Iceberg Lounge, a boat in the cartoon, and even steals from a police gala she hosts, but what about the villains that aren't lucky enough to own businesses (fronts or otherwise) or be heads of corporations? Especially if they're mad scientist-type villains and need to purchase scientific equipment and/or materials without law enforcement catching on, same for terrorist villains. One minor villain in my setting uses their geokinesis to steal gold and then make it look like he "mined" it, and another idea I just had was that a duplicator could use his powers to counterfeit money by filling up his wallet then copying himself, having the duplicate buy things, and then dismissing the duplicate, causing the copied money to disappear with no evidence that could lead back to him. Asking this again since the last thread got deleted for some reason.

>>96469722
I mean, do you want actual laundering? Dirty money in, clean money out? Because that only really applies to villains with a veneer of a civilian life. A lot of career villains are in it solely to finance the next big project, because their obsession, whatever it is, is more important than living like a normal human being. Scarecrow ain't trying to retire. He's robbing banks so he can buy more chemicals off the black market so he can make more fear gas.

>>96469722
Define good.

>>96441989
Why wouldn't it be relevant?

>>96459256
I think it's fucking ridiculous that they expect people to pay for the playtest. It's paid beta. A paytest.

>>96459133
>>96459805
How are these images made?

>>96471847
Yeah, I feel the same way. You'd think it'd be released for free, if maybe only in quickstart format. I guess corpos gonna corpo.

I use Fabrica de Herois (Factory of Heroes) to generate them. It's essentially a paper-doll program that lets you dress templates.

>>96469722
>>96469768
Only villains bother laundering their money. Supervillains have bigger things in mind than legitimacy.

>>96441989
Why wouldn't it be relevant?

Why are Cape threads pretty consistently some of the worst threads on /tg/? Why are they so prone to spamming and other assorted off-topic foolishness?

inb4 hurr durr comix r fer retards.

Not gonna stop until I get an answer. Blow me.

>>96469768
>He's robbing banks so he can buy more chemicals off the black market so he can make more fear gas.
Okay, but how does Scarecrow, or other mad scientist villains, get the materials and equipment they need, especially if they want to avoid the notice of the heroes and/or law enforcement? Not to mention if they're trying to avoid doing shit like robbing banks in public to avoid attention for something big.

>>96472009
What I said above.

>>96477502
How do drug cartels get their grubby mitts on the guns, lab equipment to cook meth with, and other stuff?
The answer is relatively simple — intermediaries. Everything from gun runners to "doctors without morals".
Any capable villain usually attracts a swarm of various fixers, logistic specialists, and even street gangs.

You're thinking too reductively. Villains don't exist in a vacuum.
Rather, they find or create a niche for themselves within the criminal "ecosystem".
Like any other ecosystem, it needs someone filling every level of it to remain stable.
From street gang plankton, and all the way to the apex predators — the supervillains.

Which version of Marvel Super Heroes should I play, Basic, Advanced or Revised?

Why does Champions/HERO system always seem to bounce off people for superhero games?

>>96477725
>Like any other ecosystem, it needs someone filling every level of it to remain stable.
And, in fact, that's the way to track some of the more secretive villains. You're not looking for them, specifically, but the ripples they make, and triangulating from there.

>>96477725
Are ecosystems all that stable and particularly in the this analogy with the context of superheroes?

Forest fires, a particular transmissible blight or more aptly human influences like hunting play merry hell with ecosystems both in short and long term. It is only applicable to a virgin environment. Planktonic street gangs only make much sense in a grim setting like Gotham with poverty pushing people to crime despite Batman, a rich guy in a suit. In Metropolis' relative prosperity no one would brave the patrolling sky god.

>>96479206
Nothing "plays hell" with an ecosystem. All ecosystem is just an environment and all the creatures living in it and all of the choices they make. There's no such thing a virgin environment, that doesn't mean anything.

>>96479338
An*

>>96479338
Don't be dense; Plays hell clearly means with the rate of change (or stability) of an ecosystem which is what is in question. A virgin environment also is in the analogy clearly before and after human interference so yes they do/did exist.

To say they didn't would be a facetious claim Australia hasn't had rapid alternations to its evolutionary path due to humans and the other animals they brought, or that there was no difference to your brain before and after the worms started eating it away.

Super Heroes do not generally subsistence predate any level of villain, their goal is total removal across the board. The analogy is flawed.

>>96479515
There's no such thing as stability.
I didn't say ecosystems don't change. That is, in fact, one of the defining features of an ecosystem.
A wildfire isn't good or bad. It's just a thing that happens. The same goes for all changes. Don't be dense.

>>96479532
>Like any other ecosystem, it needs someone filling every level of it to remain stable.

Ermmmmm... what?

>>96479579
Having a stroke?

>>96469722
>what are some good ways for my villains to launder their illicit gains
It's the casinos man, can't go wrong with a mob casino.

>>96476749
>Why are Cape threads pretty consistently some of the worst threads on /tg/? Why are they so prone to spamming and other assorted off-topic foolishness?
Several factors coming together to make things suck. The real reason is nu /tg/ doesn't play games anymore, so they fill their time with surrogate activities that let them be a part of the hobby tangentially without actually getting a group together and playing the damn thing. A particularly popular surrogate activity is arguing over systems. This type of anon will beat their chest to show you that their system is better or show you that other games suck which ever they are feeling at the moment. They do this because that's what they think a "real" grognard would do and looking like you play games is the most important thing to people who don't actually play.

lol he's so mad that his system sucks ass

>>96477883
Personally I gravitate towards Advanced because it has a lot of options but to be honest I haven't looked into Revised. Also there are retro clones on drive through RPG that are worth looking into in my opinion.

I love the "extra limb" power, be it extra hands, legs, tentacles, wings etc. tell me about heroes and villains of your game who are rocking extra appendages!

>>96481035
No you don't. Why did you bump the thread?

>>96479011
>And, in fact, that's the way to track some of the more secretive villains. You're not looking for them, specifically, but the ripples they make, and triangulating from there.
Do you have any more thoughts and advice on said secretive villains and how they'd hide, please?

>>96479011
marvel even has a villain who exists primarily as an arms dealer for low-mid level villains, the tinkerer
on the DC side, intergang deals in alien weapons, which are a necessity to deal with superheroes

>>96441989
Why wouldn't it be relevant?

>>96485046
Both Marvel and DC have had costumers that work both sides of the conflict. DC had The Carpenter, former Wonderland Gang member, who custom-makes hideouts, lairs, and abandoned yet thematically relevant factory deathtraps for villains.

>>96469768
>>96477725
Hey, I had the idea for a mad doctor villain who finances his larger plans (which is a spoiler, so don't ask, don't want my group to see it beforehand) in part by performing operations like transplants on rich folks that want to jump the organ donor wait list and shit like that, what are some ways that he can avoid drawing the attention of the heroes and/or IRS when getting paid or obtaining equipment, and what else should I consider with him or similar types of villains?

>>96441989
Why wouldn't it be relevant?

>>96441201 (OP)
Pubes status on your favorite and/or current capes character?

>>96487161
Naturally doesn't grow them because they are an alien/ normal bush

>>96441989
Why wouldn't it be relevant?

>>96441201 (OP)
What do you do when you’re stuck on what on creating characters and/or powers for your supers that aren’t just thinly-veiled copies of existing supers like Gambit, etc.? And are there any random generators that you use or would recommend beyond the one below?
>https://chaosgachaweb.onrender.com

>>96441201 (OP)
How do you feel about redeeming villains, and what are some of the best ways to do this/examples? I like the idea of villains trying to be better for love, like when Emma crushes on Cyclops.

>>96491289
Because turning into an animal, no matter how strong, has limited applications if the foe is outright invulnerable to normal harm, etc. Next question.

>>96464182
What even are the limitations of Beast Boy's powers? He can turn into an insect swarm, so can he be a herd of larger animals too? Can he turn into a green version of any other human, since we are technically animals?

>>96478389
>HERO sys
Wow, no one answered to both mentions of this.

I'm using it for my first campaign, it can be a lot to take in, but it looks fun af.

>>96497755
So to make the power irrelevant you had to make the enemy invulnerable? Not doing a great job of supporting your position lol

>how to make animal polymorphing viable at top tiers
Make their forms enhanced by mutation/magic. There, the question has been answered.

No, it's already viable as is.

>>96500056
It was just an off the top of my head example. Still, this has gone on for a while, what are some powers that might have trouble dealing with foes in the big leagues?

>>96505332
None. Every power is only limited by the trait cap, which applies equally to all powers.

bump

bump

>>96487277
>because they are an alien
What kind of alien?

bump

bump

I thought about making a female clown/jester hero for the superhero setting I've been fiddling with. However, I can't really think of how to make her a good character and what powers to give her. "Dude, clussy" and "she makes people laugh to fight depression" seem too obvious. Any ideas, saars?

>>96441201 (OP)
What are some powers villains can have that are typically stereotyped as “heroic” abilities, or powers heroes can have with traditionally “villainous” associations? Besides picture related, there’s also blood manipulation like Vlad King in MHA, for instance.

>>96515107
>>96515419
what are you going to contribute in return?

>>96515453
Um, you’re talking to two different anons. And if you really want more examples, the Butterfly in Miraculous Ladybug is meant to empower people into heroes but Hawk Moth uses it to to make villains, while the Black Cat can destroy pretty much everything but is used by a hero.

I was mainly trying to reinvigorate the thread, but I was vaguely thinking of having a whole hero and villain team situation where the heroes all have “villainous” powers and vice versa.

>>96515534
Yeah, I know. I was asking both of them.

>>96515453
>what are you going to contribute in return?
What are you going to contribute at all except for wannabe janny energy?

More than you, certainly.