Thread 96462110

Kitty Hawk Edition

Game Resources

Star Trek Adventures
-Official Modiphius Page (Rules, FAQ and Player Resources)
>http://www.modiphius.com/star-trek.html
-PDF Collection
>https://www.mediafire.com/folder/0w33ywljd1pdt/
-Character Builder and Token Maker
>https://sta.bcholmes.org/
Star_Trek_Adventures
-Homebrew Collection
>https://continuingmissionsta.com/

Older Licensed RPGs (FASA, Last Unicorn Games and Decipher)
>http://pastebin.com/ndCz650p
Other (Unlicensed) RPGS (Far Trek + Lasers and Feelings)
>http://pastebin.com/uzW5tPwS

Star Trek: Attack Wing
-Official WizKids Page (Rules, FAQ and Player Resources)
>http://wizkids.com/attackwing/star-trek-attack-wing/

Star Trek: Ascendancy
-Official Gale Force Nine Page (Rules and Player Resources)
>http://startrek.gf9games.com/

Star Trek: Fleet Captain
-Official WizKids Page (Rules and Player Resources)
>https://wizkids.com/star-trek-fleet-captains/

Star Trek: Into the Unknown
-Starter Rules
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1w8nb0ow28rE9SWPCp10wOGZWmGoTetYQ/view?pli=1

Lore Resources

Memory Alpha - Canon wiki
>http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Portal:Main

Memory Beta - Noncanon wiki for licensed Star Trek works
>http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page

Fan Sites - Analysis of episodes, information on ships, technobabble and more
>http://pastebin.com/mxLWAPXF

Star Trek Maps - Based on the Star Trek Star Charts, updated and corrected
>http://www.startrekmap.com/index.html

/stg/ Homebrew Content
>http://pastebin.com/H1FL1UyP

Thread Question: Do you make use of combat-focused shuttles?

>Do you make use of combat-focused shuttles?
I'm rolling up a Captain's Log campaign and intend to have some combat shuttles in the sector. No plans to trench run anything.

>>96462110 (OP)
>TQ
Generally no. Any time I think about doing it I just think how dumb it was in Discovery and how little they seemed to help the Odyssey in DS9. Far as I'm concerned, shuttles exist to be shot down to start a plot.

>>96462110 (OP)
>Thread Question: Do you make use of combat-focused shuttles?
>>96464626
Make it a Corvette then!

Shangri-La class, my beloved.

>>96465486
Constitution class, also my beloved.

>>96462110 (OP)
I'm planning on a carrier/fighter heavy STA game. I'm still new to the game, has anyone used fighters in STA combat? I suspect taking the extensive shuttlebays talent a bunch of times for a carrier could make a really overpowered combatant.

>>96466332
>the victory of form over function, 2255, colorized

>>96464801
I mean what does Corvette even really mean in Star Trek terms? Something like a Bird of Prey?

>>96466332
>has anyone used fighters in STA combat?
I'm in a similar boat to you, starting up a campaign. Page 184 of the Fed-Klingon war book seems to have something on ship swarms which I'll probably pick-up and see how goes.

There's likely youtube, continuingmissions, and forum support too but I haven't AI'd it to find a best practice.

>>96465486
I hate the Shangri-La. I like it when you see natural evolution in ship design from one generation to another. But when you have was is obviously just a throwback that makes little sense in being around when other ships are around that show their progress, it just irks me to no end.

>>96462110 (OP)
Why do these future starships all require skylights for their main hulls? Does the Federation just hate windows after the 2400s?

>>96469360
It makes perfect sense given its fluff of
>Oh dear the Excelsior project is a shitshow and the Connie is a creaking relic even with refits, we need a new asskicker quicksharp before the ruffleheads get any ideas...

>>96462110 (OP)
not running scatterpack and wild weasel shuttles is silly. they pump out so much ECM and ECCM AND they let you focus your own ship's power on weapons and shields and engines.

>>96465495
>>96465486
its fucking beautiful.
>>96469577
you fucking take that back, you filthy heretic!
the excelsior project WAS a success. TNG warp 10 is about tOS warp 15-18. and the warp scale re-defined co-incided with the excelsior project, so whilst it DID NOT provide a working transwarp system
(even the borg in TNG only had a transwarp network because they built fucking macroscalar engineering projects in the form of transwarp conduit gates)

the excelsiors massive nacelles, hugely increased warp coils and the sheer engine power of how much warp plasma she could generate, helped her lead science into the re-done warp scale, finding far better, more efficient ways of doing warp.

AND, you ingrate, whilst the connie was a heavy Cruiser, the excelsior entered service a Battleship. being over twice the size of a connie.

Shangri-La is obviously a connie, but rebuilt or redesigned heavily to slant the entire purpose towards combat. a science or exploration vessel she aint. she is clearly a torpedo spitting death machine with all those extra toooooooobs.

>>96469792
I fucking love Scatterpacks and Wild Weasels, it's a fun clicky.

Speaking of attack shuttles, you need ships to carry them, and what better carrier than this bad boy?

>>96469011
Am I missing something or is the swarm's scale just chosen arbitrarily?

>>96462110 (OP)
Star Trek Online was a mistake.

>>96473876
You mean "based" right?

>>96469360
It was the last gasp of the Constitution-craze which led to everything in TOS being some variation of the same basic saucer. Fixes the weak neck issue that makes Connies liable to do an involuntary saucer seperation whenever their shields are down.

>>96473887
Sutherland, my beloved.

>>96473887
>>96476091
Looks like it has two saucer sections like the SFB Gorn ships.

>>96473687
>Excelsior with less space and a weaker warp field

Cool

>>96477166
I believe the Curry class had basically just as much internal volume as the Excelsior and why would it have a weaker warp field?

>>96462110 (OP)
is kitty hawk edition full of catboys and birdgirls
aand or
birdboys and catgirls

>>96477210
Yes to both.

>>96477214
huzzah

>>96477202
I thought it was missing the neck, but I guess it has one. As for the warp field, those nacelles aren't Excelsior's and Excelsior wouldn't use those for 80 years if they were inferior.

>>96466332
Fuck Terry Matalas and fuck New Jersey

>>96469809
>Shangri-La is obviously a connie,

it's a Constitution-III class, except that bullshit on the front

>>96469809
>Shangri-La is obviously a connie
No

>>96473876
Heretic! Blasphemer! Thou art a foul knave!
>>96477628
>>96477653
Damn skippy its a connie. A connie built for murder out of hateinium.

Aside from my feelings about the quality of the current season of SNW (it's fine, better than STD, worse than Prodigy.) I'm finding that it hasn't inspired me to try and run a campaign or captain's log with any of the ideas presented in it. Even shit Trek usually gives me some sort of idea, over the course of a season. An idea I think could be better executed or something so dumb that I have to use it. But we're 1 episode from the end of the season and nothing stands out for me.

>>96477628
Actually Constitution III is the anachronism, Shangri-La came first and was just given a reskin.

>>96478314
Still, from looking at what STO was like early on it's hard to believe that it's one of the only ongoing parts of the franchise that seems to be made by people who actually like Star Trek.

Give me a vibe check on this campaign idea.

Lost era.
Indirect first contact with reclusive aliens on a comparable tech/social/etc level to the federation.
Aliens are actually magic.
Players need to first understand that actual magic is happening, then try to understand how it works.
Understanding how magic works breaks magic, destroying parts of the aliens' society which rely on it.
The federation ends up angering the aliens if they snoop too much.
The federation runs a risk of escalating everything into a blitz or even worse some doomsday spell from the magical aliens, in an effort to destroy the federation before it destroys them by literally taking the magic out of the world.

My worry is that this kinda plot punishes the players for being "good" starfleet officers, but I think it might be an interesting subversion.

>>96479829
>this kinda plot punishes the players for being "good" starfleet officers
There's nothing wrong with that, some of the best stories come from testing starfleets ideals.

>>96479862
On screen, but this is sucker-punching my players irl, and that might leave them with a bad taste in their mouths.

>>96479829
>>96479875
Sounds genuinely interesting. I get your fears, but if you make the story engaging I think it should work. I mean hell, a lot of TNG especially is about learning to bend or outright break the rules when the occasion calls for it.

>>96478748
I found the premise of Four and a Half Vulcans to be fascinating. And then the episode resolved it offscreen in 30 seconds and filled the rest of the runtime with shit.

"Several hundred years" before 2260, the Vulcans encountered a pre-warp planet, gave it nuclear fission technology to avert some kind of disaster, then have presumably been back to visit occasionally to make sure everything's OK. What's the story there?

Is it at the very beginning of the Vulcan's return to interstellar exploration? Was there a certain exuberance at finally being back that caused them to want to say hi to everyone, and it was mistakes on other planets that led to them adopting a policy of non-interference?

Or maybe it was a hundred years later, when they knew they were technically supposed to leave them to die, but their compassion was strong enough that they invented a bullshit 'logical' justification like "Uh, if we don't save them, Andorians will come along and set up a military outpost on the ruins."

>>96467969
The only time a Starfleet ship has been called a corvette was back in TNG with the USS Trieste, a Mecred-class ship which Data describes as too small and too slow to intercept another ship but was never seen on screen. In DS9 the Klingon K'Pak class is referred to as a corvette, but is never seen on screen.

The Defiant is referred to as a Frigate and the old Constitution class were Heavy Cruisers, so something between a runabout and a Defiant would probably be a corvette.

My guess is that something like the USS Raven, that ship that 7of9 was on would be considered a corvette. Crew of up to a dozen people but can be piloted by 2, about the size of an airliner.

I've looked for a '4-6 player party van' and the USS Raven seemed perfect.

>>96480574
Yeah, my Wit(t) class Interdiction Corvette is basically a Warp Core with Engines, Weapons, and Control Cradles strapped to it.
Hence why I can't decide on adding the extra "t" to the name, what with brevity and all.

>>96480574
So, like the USS Archer? Though, it might be smaller than the Defiant if I recall, but it's quick and smart.

>>96480356
I think the former is more likely, but there's a certain appeal to the latter. I don't like how often modern Trek treats the Vulcans like total assholes/minor villains.

>>96480653
I would say a corvette is more defense/patrol oriented, Archer is a science/intelligence scout. Both are in the same size range.

>>96469809
Excelsior was a success *eventually*, but it absolutely failed at what Starfleet wanted it to do at the time we're talking about: take over from the Connie as the Fed's primary line vessel that makes "warrior races" decide peace is a better choice when they see one. Its development ran over by years, it took them even more years to salvage anything useful from it's floptacular "transwarp drive", their initial configuration used way more resources than the Connie did; it was a complete boondoggle until some more sensible officers were brought in to "value engineer" the project, and in the meantime SFC were pissing their monster maroons at the thought of what the Klingons might do if they looked weak and the Shangri-La is the stopgap they came up with - no bleeding-edge tech that'll shit itself the first time they hit a gravimetric wave, a per-ship investment more along the lines of a Connie, just a shitload of torps and a bad attitude.

>>96480684
>modern

Enterprise went off the air on May 13, 2005 anon

Take Me Out to the Holosuite was first broadcast on October 19, 1998; TNG barely featured Vulcans before Spock's appearance (I think because they wanted to distance it from TOS despite basically photocopying the crew), even going to the point of featuring what must, in-universe, have been the most transparent lie about Simon Tarses' ancestry (as anybody - which is everybody on Mars, where he's from - who knew anything about Vulcans would know even a quarter-Vulcan doesn't become that emotional without consequences) in a fake-out that must have had Vulcan fans ripping their dicks off and hurling them into orbit on first-run

VOY heavily features Vulcans (not just Tuvok, but numerous others, some of them recurring) who are definitely more on the dickish than the logical side and clearly enjoy messing with their emotional counterparts; even the master who trained Tuvok in flashbacks seemed to take pleasure in screwing with Tuvok's expectations and calling him illogical

DS9 even had a Vulcan serial killer (according to PRO, he got better) and a Vulcan gun runner

>>96479829
This sounds like a TOS episode which I imagine is the point and there is nothing wrong with that in the slightest.

>>96473687
>and what better carrier than this bad boy?

>>96481554
And? What about any of that changes my meaning or intent?

>>96479509
Daily reminder sto is running on an engine thats most of 30 years old, and was designed for a WoW clone / knockoff.

STO shouldnt even work at all. Its freaking win nt/2000 era. It is pre-win xp...

It is a gloriously insane pile of kludged together spaghetti code to please an ork MekBoy that shouldnt work at all. And yet, it does.
>>96479829
Check that one episode of the animated series. Kirk and co accidentally into a dimension with magic.

>>96482811
DS9, if it had an actual budget, should have had at least an entire squadron of defiants.

>>96483015
well anon it's September 2025 so all of those oh let's call it 31 years of evil Vulcans have already happened

your claim that it's a new Trek thing is bunk and you've been debunked, thoroughly, so try not to take it personally, but you're wrong, and you're just bitching because you're old and you're still not king of the universe or even screwing your wife's hotter sister on the side

>>96480791
double HERESY. Excelsior was a battleship from the very get go, being over twice the size of the heavy cruiser connies, of which the KDF estimated, as did starfleet, 5-7 + d7's were necessary to overmatch. the excelsior had far, far more robust defensive screen systems and far more weaponry. and thanks to the transwarp experiment, way, way more power generation than it ended up needing for standard warp drive, giving it truly horrendous amounts of discretionary warp power available f0or its other high energy systems.

Excelsior was ALWAYS a success, so much so it became THE standard starfleet ship for OVER ONE HUNDRED YEARS. and STILL counted as a heavy cruiser by her end of service life.

the exclesior class was so huge and useful, so modular and had so much engines, she could effectively be overhauled and refit indefinitely, and in fact, DID see continuous service block 1,2 etc service programs, even so far as using defiant -class anti dominion and anti borg era technologies in a standardised upgrade package, giving the excelsior class ablative armour, quantum torpedoes and phaser Arrays.

>>96483483
No I'm annoyed that it’s become the norm. And I think you knew that was my meaning. You’re just being a pedant because that’s your entire personality. Worse, you’re projecting your own dissatisfactions onto others. That’s really sad.

>>96480701
FASA has some good corvettes. There are a couple combat variants of the Oberth.

>>96485295
You are crazy. Oberths are suicide if you are dumb enough to take them into combat. Their shields are non-existent.

>>96485358
Fair, but as the anon I was replying to stated, corvettes are intended for defensive and patrol work. Anything in that size range is likely to get rolled by a larger dedicated combat craft.

>>96485295
I think the Burke class is technically a light frigate but it gives the vibe of a small ship with a very small crew.

>>96462110 (OP)
>Do you make use of combat-focused shuttles?
I have been banned from programming shuttles to fly into enemy ships while breaching their warp cores.

Did anybody end up trying Into the Unknown?

>>96484164
Oh, so you're just a retard incapable of grasping the concept of time then. Gotcha.

>>96483279
>Spock drawing a pentagram on the floor and summoning the fucking devil.gif

>>96485358
Oberth-chan is for reliable support.
Every time a capital ship has an oopsie, Oberth is there to clean up.
Ship counsellor at the helm? Oberth is there to pick you up
Lost a nacelle? Oberth is there to hold it.

>>96486533
holy shit that Oberth is at least 500 times the actual scale of an Oberth! It's further away than the Excelsior but somehow bigger than it as well! Starfleet is building Gigaberths?!

>>96486559
They are using Bird of Prey tech shared by the Klingons

>>96486022
you called?

>>96486622
what the
Spock you utter imbecile, the pentagram is for trapping Satan in it! Now he's free to do whatever he wants!

>>96486636
Well why shouldn't he be? As the classic Trek quote goes, Freedom is the right of all sentient beings.

>>96485358
I'm sure it would had been a competitive design in the 2270s.

>>96486636
It made sense in the context of the episode.
TAS doing TAS things

>>96485757
SFB actually has an even smaller version of the Burke as their corvette.

>>96486008
Cry more, idiot. Enterprise under kirk was on its 3rd or 4th? 5 year mission program and he got like, 3 + of those for himself and crew. So connies had 30+ service years. Excelsior was launched a battleship in the 2280's and the class served until 2410's as heavy cruisers. Thats 130 fucking years. Get fucked all the way up your own ass you retard.

>>96486559
Lower dreks writers and so on are just absolute fucking retards who know nothing about star trek, or even care.

>>96486559
The size of the Oberth has always been fucky and inconsistent. Ex Astris Scientia has a good article on it.
>https://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/articles/oberth-size.htm

>>96489992
Star Trek has always had issues with scale, you just have to kind of play it by ear more often than not.

Do you think the KDF have a synchronised flying display team?

>>96494411
Would not surprise me, Klingons are all about display basically and if you can fly in a specific formation and do it incredibly well then that would be an amazing thing to be boastful about.

>>96494581
The implication of this is that there is a cutthroat world of Klingon beauty pageants.

>>96495366
They might not be beauty per se, but definitely something akin to them

>>96495366
>>96495472
"They are TALENT shows, everyone just wears skimpy clothing to show off their physiques!"

>>96496495
>an 80s novel centred around this kind of Klingon event, with a Boris Vallejo cover.
again I find myself in the wrong timeline

>A famous opera tells the story of a Warrior who was booted out of a talent show for having no cool scar to show off while singing about how she earned it.
>The truth is she was so skilled in combat, no foe could touch her.

>>96487031
Also Lucien was pretty much a stand up guy throughout.

>>96497336
Welp, time to write I guess...
>Worf takes a vacation to Qo'noS
>Gets nabbed by some people, dragged into some back alleys
>Starts beating the shit out of them thinking they are going to do something bad
>Calms down only when they tell him he's to be a judge
>"A judge to what, you p'tagh?!"
>Opens a door, sees a number of Klingon women wearing scale mail bikinis and swinging around bat'leths while belting out Klingon opera
>"I have heard of this degeneracy, but to think it would be here on Qo'noS!"
>So, uh, not interested?
>"I never said that. Where do I sit?"

>>96498196
Based

>>96486559
you think that's bad? there are Mirandas in this shot that are simultaneously too big and too small and not even the same size as each other, all because of a layer error during compositing of the rendered shots

some of the bridge domes on these ships must have one hunched-over dude inside them

>>96503156
Those aren't Mirandas, those are Burkes with rollbars.

>>96506092
I was thinking similar. The larger ones are Kirov frigate-dreadnoughts.

>>96502679
>dubsminion guy
this really dates that art

>>96507252
I don't think I've seen new stuff from that particular artist in a few years, now.

>>96463399
So Starfleet has Y-Wings now? What's next, Romulan TIE Fighters?

Truly, FASA Trek was a place for intellect unrestrained by petty considerations like sanity or taste

>>96508442
I don't really post/exist online anymore, besides doodling for friends.

>>96510325
...Wait a minute...

>>96510325
Not gonna lie, I want a thick saucer and double engineering hull ship.

>>96510331
It's good to know you're still alive. Didn't seem like you were doing so hot a while ago.

>>96508922
Romulans fly redressed original series Cylon raiders, duh.

>>96512088
Granted.

Thoughts?

>>96517023
did it go up against Wonder Woman or what

>>96517023
I think they had that in Lower Decks but way smaller.

Ticonderoga, standing by!

>>96517512
That was the Kiith class warbird, and yes!

>>96518296
Ark Royal-class (Or Ranger-class in Beta Canon.) is one of my favorite designs.

>>96518309
Looks like a turd. Develop better taste.

>>96518296
>>96518309
It meets a specific criteria I have which is “would look great dying in the background”. That might seem faint praise. And it is. But the Ark Royal would look great burning for an establishing shot.

>>96518296
>>96518309
>why is it named "Ticonderoga"?
>well, T'Pol, you see it's named after a small strategically unimportant and largely indefensible fort that only the Imperial French ever managed to make work

>>96518879
>why's it called the "Enterprise"?
>Well you see, Savik, there was a boat in the less important of 2 major theatres of one of my ancestors' global wars

>>96518900
I really like the original idea they toyed with that the Constitution class were the 5th by some standard, so consequently they just mined history for ship names beginning with E.

>>96510325
...Wait a minute...

>>96476782
The Sutherland has a couple of mission pods it can pick from, one of which is saucer-like, yes.

>>96494411
Yes but it usually involves them evading a lot more disruptor fire!

>>96518900
Lol, Amerilards. Crack a history book sometime chud.

>>96510325
And here's me thinking it was the quality of their writing that got FASA the boot?

>>96519647
When will you retard stop posting this ugly ass ship every chance you get. No one wants to see your turd every time there's a trek thread on the board.

>>96523625
Would you rather my STO Ship?

>>96523643
What a mistake your existence is.

>>96523643
fuckin USS Launchpad McQuack here

Don't suppose fags play Starfleet Battles?

>>96524209
I contemplated picking it up but have held off since I just found out I will be a father in about 7 months

>>96524209
I'm trying to learn it for an eventual encounter with the Tholians where I feel SFB has done the best job simulating their web-making.

>>96524230
Never too early to start preparing the fetus for Trek tabletop.

>>96524915
Already looking at some dumb Trek things for babies. Also apparently there is going to be a Trek show oriented towards toddlers coming soon?

>>96525471
>coming soon
Anon, it premiered a few days ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-KvjtSgfJs

>>96525501
Holy shit this is awful, so it will be perfect for showing the kiddo.

>>96525501
Prodigy died for this

>>96526290
Prodigy died for a lot of reasons, this is not one of them.

>>96525841
Anon you show this to your kids you'll get done for child abuse!

>>96527553
This is par for the course in young kids entertainment, honestly. I look after my niece and nephew at least a couple times a week and most of what they want to watch is of a kind with this Scouts show. Total pablum.

Real question, how do you get into the Trek tabletop scene while avoiding nuTrek shit?

I got a general question...how does housing work in the federation? I understand that everyone gets a house but who decides who gets what house? Do families get bigger homes while single people are assigned shoe boxes or what?

>>96523643
>pic rel, the captain

>>96486622
>execs were worried about Spock, that people will see him as satanic
>meanwhile TAS

>>96528900
Short answer is we don't know because it's never been dug into deep enough in hard canon.
Long answer with a lot of assumptions is that it seems to be based on what you need for your job and where is the best location for it. You don't need a place in San Francisco unless you're working there, so we mostly see people working for Starfleet Headquarters etc. You're not going to get kicked out if you grow up there (like the Siskos in New Orleans) but you'll have a hard time moving there just because you feel like it. Accommodations are based mainly on family need with a slight degree of preference for higher rank or position, but even bachelor accommodations will keep people comfortable instead of being Tokyo shoeboxes.
Though with the franchise being based mainly on Starfleet members, what we see on screen is skewed by the fact that they're the closest thing the Federation has to a military and are treated accordingly. In the real world if you're in the military, you get told where you're working and given your new home based on your family needs and your rank. You can apply for off-base housing but it's not guaranteed, especially in more remote areas. Starfleet is similar because it's Starfleet, so we don't see what the deal is with civilians.

>>96528900
Families can inherit property, otherwise I believe it is a kind of first come first served sort of situation. And since transporter and shuttlecraft tech is so good and ubiquitous then one can look to live anywhere on or around a planet so you could live in Paris, work in Tokyo, and have dinner in Sydney with time to spare to get to bed.

>>96528900
yes, the neighborhoods around San Francisco and Utopia Planetia are filled with abandoned diseased Talaxians that crewmen and ensigns were told they should not get, would not get permission for, and snuck in anyway

the bird population on the Presidio is in chronic decline as Talaxians do what Talaxians do, and their big smelly colonies are under every bank of greenery in Golden Gate Park

>>96525841
good luck getting a pig to eat pepper

>>96525501
Still better than DISCO

>>96528931
Fun fact:
Spock is not actually summoning Satan in that episode.
He's using the pentagram to move chess pieces

>>96530416
Just as evil

>>96529730
Most things are

>>96529730
You mean STD?
Call it what it is, aids!
>>96530426
Worf is a Klingonaboo. He is their equivalent of a weeb. I think we see more of them on Voyager of all places?

>>96533054
It don't deserve letters ST

Man I feel sorry for Robert Picardo's back with all the carrying he's going to need to do with this show.

>>96534112
oh god they dragged him out of retirement for THIS? fuck's sake

>>96534112
His height after the season ends.

>>96534112
not like he didn't carry voyager

>>96534355
>Star Trek Picardo

>>96534112
I already wasn't going to watch, but now I will refuse to watch with prejudice because I don't want whatever heinous atrocity this show ends up being to taint my appreciation for the Doctor. I'm going to have to inform my friend group's reisdent nutrek shill that even mentioning this show is a punchable offence.

Catching up on the new SNW season and it strikes me that there’s a non-zero chance a fan fic of Khans great granddaughter having a love triangle with Kirk and Spock has existed since the 1980s.

>>96535166
that particular subplot really does look and feel like very awful Trek fanfiction. I wish they could just stop and leave it alone but they keep trying to push it further and further, probably because they're out of ideas for what to do with her and they want to keep bringing Kirk back because everyone loves Kirk, duh

>>96535166
I like La'an but recently I realized she is fanfic character and it's hard to see her same now

>>96519647
USS Pizza Cutter.

>>96535166
it's not a love triangle unless they're daisy chaining

or there's three outsides and one in the middle

I volunteer as tribute

>>96529010
>And since transporter and shuttlecraft tech is so good and ubiquitous then one can look to live anywhere on or around a planet so you could live in Paris, work in Tokyo, and have dinner in Sydney with time to spare to get to bed.
Would that really be true? Transporters are a massive power drain and the first thing shut off in an emergency on spaceships who have a significant portion of their mass dedicated to a powerplant. Unless Federation cities are 50% reactors by area, teleporters aren't going to be that common.

>>96536624
Federation reactors are 100% efficient; they're matter-antimatter reactions so by definition they release all of the mass of fuels added to them as energy (mostly gamma). *How* that powers starships has only been adequately addressed by JJTrek, which has traditional turbine arrangements taking up a good portion of the engineering hull (though for the amounts of energy released this is also pretty impractical). Mostly it becomes "plasma" (which behaves as the writers want it to, not as plasmas behave) and is pumped around the ship akin to electrical power being routed through the wiring of a building. Presumably plasma can be converted to electrical energy (to power a light, for example) so trivially that it's done at site of need rather than at site of production (thus saving the lost power in transit through an electrical circuit, at the cost of having everything explode all the time).

Energy generation on Earth (as an example of a well-populated and stable planet of the Federation) is done by ??? but presumably there's some 90% efficient future-tech solar sats up there beaming power to earth (which is a trivial thing to do if you can beam *people* to earth without loss of energy, which is necessary to reconstitute them), vehicles that recover energy as efficiently as possible etc in addition to raw m/am reactor generation. Even so, 1kg of reaction in a m/am reactor would run a large aluminum smelter for a year. Fuel is trivial - both matter and antimatter are producible. The moderator, dilithium, is the only sticking point.

Transporters in general don't seem to use that much power - they *take* lots of power to operate, but they likely donate most of that back when the subject reconstitutes. Breaking down a subject for transport may donate energy to the transporter system itself, just as putting things back in the replicator - which runs on the same principles - does. As replicators aren't restricted, there's no reason to assume beaming is.

>>96536831
> but presumably there's some 90% efficient future-tech solar sats up there beaming power to earth
I heard they were solar satellites that transfered power through microwaves.

>>96536831
Warp plasma is pumped through the nacelles, with the flow of it past/through the warpcoils produce the timespan warping effect, sidestepping the timedilations via access to 'subspace'. Otherwise the eps grids break the plasma down to lesser and lesser amounts and forms for powering other devices. So while warp plasma isn't running behind EVERY wall... many, many bulkheads contain a pipe just waiting to go boom.

>>96536831
The Star Trek version of antimatter reactions was written before we had a list of all antimatter reactions; which is where photon torpedoes came from. Early reaction pathways assumed all the energy went to photons.

Many reaction paths are actually fairly inefficient due to things like pions haring off or large quantities of neutrinos and result in closer to 30% efficiency. Conceivably you could build a regular nuke, dope it with monopoles, and get a higher efficiency.

>>96466332
>>96480653

I adore these 2000s era lookin renders. Takes me back to playing Escape Velocity after school.

>>96481554
Modern or not, the SNW Vulcan episode gave us a line from Chapel about understanding Spock's very direct nature. I liked that it actually points to a Vulcan having nonhuman mental structure and cultural values. Too often in this franchise aliens are just humans with a quirk.

I wish Enterprise had given us time with the Tellarites. Their whole deal is apparently being argumentative jerks, and the bigger the jerk you can be, the better friends you are. Let's put some culture into that species beyond them being the alien equivalent of Internet message board nerds.

>>96539004
more correctly, the tellarites are debate club nerds. they want to and enjoy testing your ideas and arguements out fully so the holes and flaws can be ironed out.

>>96535706
She's at least a well-written fanfic character.

Speaking of Kirk's love interests, while I'm sure it's thoroughly retconned by now like 90% of TOS, let's pretend for a minute that Turnabout Intruder was bedrock canon. How do you square "Starfleet disallows female captains" with the fact that historically there would have been female naval captains on Earth? What could have led to the rollback of gender equality in that particular area of the socialist paradise that is the Roddenberry era Federation?

Sorry if this sounds like a shitpost, I just genuinely think it's fascinating to consider trying to justify it from a Watsonian perspective knowing what we know about IRL history.

>>96539054
It’s very hard to square, especially seeing as we saw Batel in command of a Constitution class ship, so you can’t even just say Starship captains.
Could be that after her, there are only male captains of Connies for a while and that’s what’s referred to in the episode. But even then that doesn’t really fit the mood of Tunrabout Intruder.
The only way to align that plot would be some Q bullshit or some “actually Federation bad” bullshit and I’m not fond of either of those solutions.

>>96539054
Straight from Memory Alpha
>This, however, is not necessarily a contradiction. Lester's line "Your world of starship captains does not admit women" might not have been intended to mean "Starfleet doesn't allow women starship captains," but rather could have meant that Kirk's world as a starship captain did not (and, by a necessity she refused to appreciate, could not) include her, since they were talking about their relationship, not Starfleet.
>Another possible interpretation of Lester's line is that she, personally, was denied promotion to a command-level position, for whatever reason, and perceived it as a prohibition against all women achieving command of starships.
My take on it is that she was clearly unstable and denied a captaincy, which only made her more erratic and conspiratorial. We can see this in how she continues to mentally degrade throughout the episode.

MIMIC

>>96537673
eh, if you can break matter down into a transmissible stream, you can build a reactor that's capable of using every bit of energy

it's somewhat mystifying that they're even using m/am reactors instead of just whatever it is that breaks stuff down and stores or transmits it for the transporters/replicators

>>96527553
But anon this isnt Cocomelon

>>96539054
>a Watsonian perspective

you can just say inductive reasoning

it's all Holmes does anyway, he's incapable of even describing deduction properly


>>96539685
10011001100? very funny

>>96539424
>>96539373
I'm glad to see I'm not the first dork who's tied themselves in pretzels trying to make it make sense.

>>96540672
>you can just say inductive reasoning
I like Watson though

>>96541418
everybody likes Watson, he knows when he's saying something stupid and he isn't on crack

> tied themselves in pretzels trying to make it make sense.

you want a headcanon? here's one

the third-season character who speaks those lines is Janice Lester

the first-season character of Janice Rand, Kirk's assistant, is played by Grace Lee Whitney, who had by then been dropped from the show, and who was sexually assaulted by an executive while she was working on the show

there's a possibility that, knowing the show was cancelled for the second (and in his view, likely final time), Gene Roddenberry wrote a deliberately off-canon episode which gave "Janice" a voice in dealing with the male-dominated studio heirarchy (owner-founder Lucille Ball notwithstanding, it was a boy's club as most businesses in the 1960s were), so the line "your world of starship captains doesn't admit women" is an oblique but relatively direct reference to the real-world difficulties faced by one of the crew who had originally launched the show

Janice Rand was intended by Roddenberry to be brought back in the show but wouldn't appear until the Motion Picture (though she did appear in multiple movies and Voyager after that, played by Whitney), so it's unlikely he felt any animosity toward her, and he was likely aware of her claim of sexual assault

it doesn't make sense as a line in-camera because it was never intended to: it's a fuck-you, we-know-what-you-did to the executives in a story with enough sci-fi bullshit to make it deniable (which is necessary if you want to work again), or it's a we-see-you moment for Whitney, or it's Gene high as fuck trying to make sense of his crazy life, and may even have been a final attempt to get Whitney back to play as Captain Rand (having gone on to greater things in her absence from Enterprise)

>>96541866
>>96540672
Ah, I see where we're miscommunicating. "Watsonian perspective" refers not to inductive or deductive reasoning, but rather reasoning from an in-canon perspective, as opposed to "Doylist," the meta narrative reasoning, as presented with the possibility of it being a "fuck you" to the studio.

>>96539424
>Lester's line "Your world of starship captains does not admit women" might not have been intended to mean "Starfleet doesn't allow women starship captains," but rather could have meant that Kirk's world as a starship captain did not (and, by a necessity she refused to appreciate, could not) include her, since they were talking about their relationship, not Starfleet.
This felt obvious to me when I actually went back and watched all of TOS for the first time. Kirk torn between his duty to the Enterprise and his desire for a relationship was a running theme throughout the show. Unfortunately, pop culture bullshit diluted that down to "Kirk is a total horndog" which was not the case. He would've settled into a relationship with Rand, but that was back in the days when even the utopian future of Gene Roddenberry's mind pointed out it would be unprofessional for a captain to sleep with his yeoman. If you accept the real-world idea >>96541866 that Lester was supposed to be a stand-in for Rand, then it would've been consistent with the first season for Rand to be frustrated that the obvious chemistry between the two couldn't be fulfilled because of duty.

>>96542618
that precludes the possibility that there is no in-canon reason for the line, for the simple fact that no in-canon explanation was ever intended or, within the established canon, possible

this is a classic mistake of genre fandoms

>>96542899
Since we can't know definitively that there is no in-canon reason for the line, the thought exercise is to explore why the line exists. Parallel universes, timeline alterations and simple changes in doctrine can be used to explain most anything.

So assuming you were given the entirety of Trek's multiple bits of lore (television, novels, games, etc.) what would you draw on for a campaign idea?

>>96545569
Lost era. Post WoK [og, kelvin verse can go get fucked], Pre TNG. Excelsior-classes doing 5 year missions Miranda etc.

>>96545569
STO era, set it in the Shackleton Expanse. Do a lot of "we're trying SO FUCKING HARD to go back to the good old days of exploration and negotiation and things everyone" but of course leaning in on some of the crazy shit going down like the Iconian War, the Romulan Republic and Romulan Empire being in constant friction with one another, yet another Klingon civil war, and more.

>>96545569
Early Federation. A Daedalus class ship as one of the first UFP Starfleet vessels. The other powers don’t believe that the Federation is actually going to last and haven’t yet decided to take them seriously.

>>96545800
Read the pre ENT Existing IRL novels about the federation, with the first complement of daedelus's and their captains.

>>96545650
You just want to mount a lance weapon on your ship. Don't lie.

>>96543139
in that case the line no longer exists because of all the post-pre time travel which takes place

stealing whales erases the line from existence

>>96545650
>STO era
Fucking hell STO gives 40k a run for its money in the grim dark department. Billions die and entire civilizations get destroyed daily.

>>96546226
But you can also find eppos, so is it really all that bad?

>>96546309
True! And you can do the Halloween event and become a cat and transform others into cats.

>>96546226
Don't worry, they've promised after the current MULTIVERSAL WAR VS THE BORGCONIANS arc we return to being simple explorers. We can trust the devs, right?

>>96548526
I suspect the next arc will have some sort of connection to the upcoming Academy show. Or maybe Scouts

>>96548526
The last time they promised that we got 1 (ONE) mission about exploration and then immediately started the Tzenkethi War

>>96548526
>"In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war." - Gene Roddenberry

>>96548526
>>96549817
It's easier to program a bunch of battles than do interior maps, new mechanics and branching questlines. War's simple, making interesting locations to explore is difficult.

>>96548526
Next episode is about Making Cardassia Whole Again and features the return of Dukat.

>>96548526
I will never forgive them for killing the Forge. I know it was ancient sphagett code but that's the whole fucking game engine, and if they wanted to they could make their own version. So many player made Episodes were amazing, legit show-tier stories, all just wiped away because their corporate overlords demanded more gacha ship collector gamblewank.

>>96551400
The Forge was breaking and breaking hard. The team that had been assigned to it were one of the first fired. It's sad but understandable. I just more modern (2410s) ships, and less "oh, this is just this older ship but updated!"

>>96551454
yeah but still, nta but the Forge was dope as hell and allowed players to make their own fun.

>>96551400
Foundry. You know what I meant.

>>96551454
They could have made a new one from scratch. It may not have been identical, it may not have allowed all the content to be transferred over, but the idea "current version of thing is wonky due to circumstance(and you might even say a no-no word!), therefore it is IMPOSSIRBU to do player run missions" is horseshit. The decision was 90% costcutting and 10% "oh wait if they can level using Foundry missions they won't pay for boosts!".

They let the code go sphagett in the first place, they underresourced the team they assigned to fix it, they chose to cut bait rather than do it right. No excuses.

>>96545650
This. I would also make Narendra Station an Iconian War monster, having been attacked multiple times but survived and now being one of those stations that makes people either beg to be stationed at for prestige or fear its reputation if an enemy of the Federation and her allies.

Has any anons here ever experienced bij?

>>96553899
Every day I have to go to work

>>96551518
the problem with users, particularly on understaffed or fully-automated (blame Ashton Kucher) or just older systems, is that they tend to upload cp and use interactions to recruit for scams/cults/other

turns out the only way to really limit that, even more effective than just staffing mod positions, is to not allow user uploads

not saying that's what was the main driver in the decision made here but it's a big problem all over, a few malicious actors cause huge problems for the rest of the users of a service

>>96556504
As always, the problem is man...

>>96556834
Hey, sometimes it's the Iconians

>>96556504
That has never been a real problem anywhere, ever, where your actual identity is linked to your ability to upload, because it gets reported basically immediately, they get banned, and if they've done anything illegal they get a knock on the door from their local cops.

And it's telling that not even PW-era Cryptic had enough absolute bare-faced gall to try and claim pedo-cult conspiracies was the possible negative player behaviours they were worried about, they were talking about stuff that would be rated PG or 15+ if it were shown in a cinema.

>>96558324
It's a huge problem all over because relatively small numbers of people do the worst stuff at volume. Idiots like Kucher sold what would today be called "ai recognition" to detect it (just checking file hashes, basically) and the big companies decided they could dispense with actual moderators. Facebook has huge problems with all kinds of illegal content being uploaded daily, and dealt with reports of those problems by... firing the mods who were being paid dollars a day to check posts as and when USERS bothered to flag them, replacing the mods with ai detection. Same place we were in 20 years ago with the same exact problems. Literally the only thing that has worked to keep shit like this from being uploaded to any site that allows uploads is, ironically, what 4chan does - have a buttload of mods and jannies constantly on the lookout for it. And 4chan doesn't allow closed boards, or take days to respond to a flagged image.

Your "actual identity" is nothing when we're talking about sites with hundreds of thousands or millions or - for the very largest - billions of accounts. Reddit has this problem, Facebook has this problem (across all of its platforms). Where are these sites that only allow uploads that are tied to "your actual identity"? Do you live in fucking Russia or China?

Where are these always-online games where people aren't trading accounts around? Where are these always-online games where people aren't using false ID, stolen card data or whatever the fuck else because they INTEND to commit a crime? Where are these always-online games that have enough mods that they instaban accounts they detect through fucking magic guesses which have engaged in grooming for cults or violence? They check for trolling and racism. That's it. Nobody's out there meticulously reading chat logs even if you provided them.

It's simpler just to not have consumer-led interaction, that way your game doesn't turn at best into the comments section of a news site.

Holodeck? More like holodick! Ha!

>>96559548
gotem

Do normal current day guns work against the Borg? I've never watched Star Trek but I know the Borg can adapt to energy weapons.

>>96560216
No better than energy weapons. In First Contact, Picard kills a pair of Borg with a Tommy gun. But seeing as he doesn’t then get his crew to replicate a bunch of ARs, we can assume that the Borg can adapt to bullets too.

>>96560327
This

>>96559247
Yeah sure, an MMO about Star Trek would absolutely turn into a massive global distribution platform for child porn run by billionaire gangsters using five quintillion stolen identities is they let people use *exclusively in-game assets* that already exist to write little scifi stories. That's a totally plausible scenario.

Fucking retards like you are why we get shit like the Online Safety Act and payment processors refusing to deal with anything with even the tiniest, most ridiculously unlikely amount of risk. If there were any justice society would take the bubblewrap you want to wrap us all in and fucking suffocate you with it.

>>96560664
Holodeck weapons are just hard light that can kill without safety protocals. The tommy wasn't actually firing real bullets, the holo program was simply approximating the force of the bullets it was mimicking. It was still an energy weapon, just one that the Borg had not fucked with yet.

>>96560758
Ain't talking about holodeck weapons though. Talking about replicating real weapons.

>>96560884
Wouldn't you have to do that piece by piece and then assemble the thing? Like how Barkley had to make his bullshit brain box in multiple steps?

>>96560938
We already have an example of that they can replicate the full thing?

>>96560951
Actually, once you teach a replicator program how to make all the parts. I think you can then code it to make the entire thing all at one after that.

>>96560216
>Do normal current day guns work against the Borg? I've never watched Star Trek but I know the Borg can adapt to energy weapons.
I mean in STO, Zefram Cochrane shot gun bypasses shields like Melee Weapons.

>>96560216
Considering how trivial it is to stop kinetic energy in Trek, everything from force fields to hold in atmosphere, to the deflector, to inertial dampeners, to structural integrity fields the Borg would have any number of choices on how to stop anything even remotely resembling a modern day weapon. The Tommy gun was both Rule of Cool and a holodeck hard light construct with the power of the Enterprise's combined powerplant output behind it. It might not have been possible to adapt because whatever power output a borg could do with it's cybernetics to create a shield would be overpowered by whatever energy the Enterprise itself could dump into the borg.

>>96528900
This has been the subject of several fights on /tg/. At best, it seems to be on a planet by planet basis, with Earth being a technological paradise to the point where you can work in Australia, but live in England. Numerous Earthers have also stated that money is essentially useless, but the Federation still has credits and private enterprise (like holonovel publishers), so it's probably little more than a measure of accounting that's irrelevant for most Earthers.

Land is probably passed down and rents are probably heavily subsidized, especially if you work for the government like most of the major characters. I think it becomes a question of what you want to do with money. Like, you will never need or want on Earth so what's the fucking point?

Now that said, we've seen numerous human colonies, so there's probably a lot of pressure to go settle new planets, own lots of land, and be free of nosy neighbors.

>>96541866
It's sad that Grace Lee Whitney was the only regular to not get picked back up for the movies. Like sure they gave her cameos, but they still did her dirty. Gene should have made her more important to the plot of TMP.

>>96564003
Those colonies also tend to be pretty sparse though, as you say a lot of the people there seem to want to be there either so they can live in a tiny "intentional community" or because they want to live miles away from any other people like a grumpy old cowboy. I seriously doubt it's actually a significant percentage of humanity as a whole that's founding them, especially since the non-misanthropes with the urge to explore have Starfleet or the various small pure-science organisations that seem to exist to join.

I think people's continued need to try and impose modern-day mentalities on to Trek's future - no matter how many times we're told they're irrelevant in the show - is really frustrating and a failure of imagintion. You can suspend your disbelief for FTL travel and aliens that look like humans with rubber foreheads because an ancient alien race caused all life in our galaxy to follow similar lines of development, but the idea that in a world where your every basic need and want can be fulfilled people may have moved beyond the
>But I want THAT bit of land! WAHHHH!
mindset of a grabby toddler is a step too far? By which I mean, given the general attitudes Federation citizens have towards material possessions the amount of people who actually care to any substantial degree about living in *exactly* this or that location who don't already live in said location and have some historical familial tie to it is probably low enough that it could probably be accommodated merely through goodwill. Simply going on the local equivalent of Utopian NextDoor and saying
>Hey I'd really love to live here, would anyone mind moving elsewhere or swapping with my existing place in X?
would get you at least a couple of people saying "yeah sure whatevs".

>>96564003
>>96565145
I also hate the notion that Earth is somehow unique - fucking DS9 - when everything that allows Earth to exist as a paradise also exists everywhere else in the Federation and so other worlds and colonies have to actively choose to *not* be a paradise if that's what they want.

>>96565145
I get it, it's difficult to wrap your mind around something that seems to us like an insane level of generosity, but the point you have to recognise is that to them it isn't insane because it costs them nothing except inconvenience, and given their technology even that isn't a big issue. Seriously, think about it, we're talking about a level of technology that would make you choosing to move house so someone else could have one they really want on the level of helping a stranger with a heavy bag for two minutes. It's trivial to them.

It's like, being asked to share a bar of chocolate with someone having a hypoglycemic reaction. To us, living in developed countries with levels of abundance our ancestors couldn't fathom, that's a trivial kindness, to the point I'd wager 99% of people would think you were a total cunt for saying
>Pff, it's MY chocolate, get your own!
right? We can maybe *imagine* a scenario where both you and the person who needs your help are both so impoverished and resource-starved that your selfishness would overcome your generosity, and even maybe a scenario where that was the socially acceptable baseline of behaviour, but it seems pretty alien to us in our context yeah?

To someone raised in a world without want, where every material need is met, where travel takes moments, and everyone has nigh-total freedom, giving up an apartment to someone who wants it more is as trivial as giving up half your chocolate bar is to you.

>>96565152
Earth is unique because it's the capital of the Federation. It's not just that Earth is a paradise, but that even after the history of humanity, they chose to be a paradise while bringing in aliens from across the galaxy to live with them, instead of enforcing their home planet as being for their species first and foremost like many other species have done. It's the ultimate example of Gene's vision, of a future humanity that is truly evolved enough that our present day humans feel like backward savages to them.

>>96565200
This is also why the Maquis will always be hopeless dipshits because it's like trying to drag everyone into a war because they were asked to give a chocolate bar to someone else, even though they would get another chocolate bar in exchange, simply because "no, it's MY chocolate bar, you can't have it!"

>>96565152
I don't think Earth is unique per se, especially amongst the more developed human colonies, but we know there are a lot of human colonies for a variety of reasons and some of them are absolutely miserable. Not everyone wants to be a pioneer, just as not everyone wants to live in a city. Some of these exist outside of the Federation strangely; Ezri Dax is from New Sydney, and their family owns a mining consortium.

I will say this, I think money exists in the Federation, but I also think it's functionally useless for most of the characters. Even the Soviets had money. What uses it could have, I'm not sure, but we see evidence of private industry in the Federation and I doubt people are mining dilithium just to better themselves, especially when you consider they repurposed EMHs into slave labor to do it.

>>96566275
Money absolutely exists within the Federation, just not as a widespread, federally-backed one (credits kind of count, but also not really). Bolias, homeworld of the Bolians, operates a bank that works with different kinds of currency, and other currencies are known to operate within (and without) the Federation, such as gold-pressed Latinum and Isiks. However, it does seem the vast majority of the Federation operates on a "just use a replicator to get what you want" mentality unless they want specialized items such as art pieces, unique clothes, etc.
As for the "people mining dilithium" that could be any number of reasons - some people yearn for the mines, others might have a possible court sentence to do so (hard labor could be a form of punishment on some Federation planets, assuming it causes no long term harm), or they operate on one of the any number of currencies that flit about the Federation or something. But there is literally nothing stopping you from just getting an apartment on the moon and sitting in your underwear and jerking it day in and day out. People won't like it, but you're under no obligation to participate in anything except under the most severe of duress (Borg attack, Q-related catastrophe, things like that).

>>96566395
>some people yearn for the mines
Oh they do not shut the fuck up

>>96566773
fuck you. me and the boys are finding the biggest motherlode rocks we can and building our own fucking dorf forts. because we fucking can.

>>96561066
In one DS9 episode, some guy was like
>computer, scan this weeks plot device and replicate copies twice the size
Then he proceeded to set up a gambling den and fuck with local probability
Mind you, this happened on a backwater Cardassian mining station and not a state of the art federation facility
Clapping together a bunch of metal parts and gun powder sounds way more simple than sophisticated electronic devices

>>96566275
>>96566395
My favorite explanation for the Federation Money Question is that, like Norway, the Federation has this immense 'National Wealth Fund', and everyone is paid a UBI from that fund. Because of just how immense that fund is, the UBI every Federation citizen receives basically makes them all 'fuck you' wealthy. The kind of wealth where you simply do not care about the cost of an item, because you can buy it anyway. The financial exchange is still performed, in the background, to allow for economic prediction and recording, but to your average Federation citizen, it literally doesn't matter.

>>96567688
An interesting take. Now I have an idea for an arc involving the Orions, Romulans, and others to "crash the Federation Background Economic Sector".

>>96570066
The GDP of the Federation likely dwarfs every other major player combined, save maybe the Dominion. This is before the inclusion of Ferenginar and the destruction of Romulus.

>>96565145
>>96565152
For me, my biggest disbelief in Star Trek are: why are there miners and waiters in the Federation?

In a moneyless society, why would you work in a mine or carry a platter of food in a restaurant? Okay, I'm sure that there are things not EVERYONE on Earth could have for free. If I want my own holodeck, a nicer house or my own surplus Starfleet shuttle as a car, (assuming Starfleet sells surplus anything) I'm guessing I need to pay for it with cold hard latinum.

Now I can see myself working for however long it takes me to save up for one to three of these things. But to work in a mine for DECADES in a society where I don't need to work to live?

>>96571488
Easiest headcanon is they've drifted back into apprenticeship models. Nobody's going to let an 18 year old fresh out of high school just run their own restaurant, so instead they get hired by an established place and start from the bottom to learn the ropes. Get experience at the lower jobs learning how everything works and make your way up. Starfleet is just a formalized version of this with a hard rank structure.

>>96571488
I have observed something in the human psyche produces a craving for subterranean extraction activities. For example, in the early 21th century, a simulation was one of the most prominent forms of entertainment.

>>96571574
We all know about Plato's Cave, anon.

>>96571488
>this mfs never played papa’s pizzeria

>>96571488
Again, you're letting your tiny little capitalism-poisoned 21st century mind limit your thinking. Their entire model of society is based on the notion that everyone benefits both individually and collectively if everyone strives to improve themselves and contribute to the common good, right? But they're still human beings, not everyone is going to be a 2000IQ gigagenius scientist or a Captain Chad Bravington type who wants to beam into parasite-infested alien caves and try to negotiate with them or whatever. If you're just Big Stronk Dude and you want to help out like everyone else does, doing a few shifts extracting a mineral that's hard to get at using automated tools for plot reasons lets you contribute in a way that suits your abilities and talents. Basically: sure, you don't need to work to live, but in Trek society they don't consider life worth living if they're not making a positive contribution in *some* way.

And why does everyone assume that people in Trek doing menial "jobs" would be in the kind of borderline-slave labour situation we've dealt with historically? Firstly, in a society where you don't need to work to live no "employer" has any leverage over you, so if they ever try to exploit you or make you do something you don't want to you can just walk away. Secondly, the number of people required to do those kinds of jobs would be a fraction what it is now, so there's going to be a massive surplus of people willing to do those jobs at least a little bit of the time.
...(cont)

>>96571488
>>96572937
(cont)...You hear "dilithium miner" and imagine Rura Penthe or see old black & white films of coal-black dudes with hollow eyes and stooped backs hacking up half a lung, but the circumstances that enable that kind of situation don't exist in the Federation. Imagine more the mining equivalent of doing some DIY around the house and that would be closer, it's something you do in a fairly chill way either for a period of time as an "experience" and then you move on, or a day or two a week for a few hours as, essentially, a hobby that lets you vegetate in a holosuite and go partying the other 90% of the time without feeling like a drain on society.

Then there's like >>96571513 suggests, where doing the menial task is your "payment" for some other reward like learning a skill or accessing an experience. Let's say you want to do the whole "big friendly crew explores the galaxy" thing, you basically have three choices: spend 4-8 years at university training to be a Starfleet Officer who gets to do all the fun stuff, or spend 12-18 months on a very specialised course and serve as a Crewman who has to do the grunt work, or just sign on to bartend, or cut hair, or be a ship's teacher if you're already qualified in that, and you can be Out There *right now* while those egghead suckers are still playing with equations at the Academy.

And of course there's always Wierd Autists. Steam trains haven't been relevant for almost a century, but there are still dudes out there volunteering their time, doing backbreaking work forging and building and maintaining engines to drive little steam trains on "heritage railway" tracks for an occasional tourist, just because they think steam trains are Kinda Neato. You don't think in a society of many billions of people where almost every former profession is similarly obsolete, there aren't going to be at least some autist-y types who know everything about being a Barista or whatever and want to playact as one?
...(cont)

>>96571488
>>96572937
>>96572943
(cont)...
You accept Star Trek's future doesn't require you to work to live, but you still approach that world with the Scarcity Mentality having to work to live has saddled you with. You still think of your labour as a proxy for the currency you need to earn to exist.
-fin

>>96572937
Good post(s). As many times as the shows have told us that the economic assumptions are going to be alien to the 21st century mind, they've never really shown it in a potent fashion beyond no one paying for things.

If "Academy" is going to be set on Earth, it sure would be neat if we actually saw this in action. Actually show cadets who might be in for reasons that reflect the future world. We've seen reasons like the call of adventure, parents were in Starfleet. I want to see something new!
My expectations are low, of course.

>>96571488
>>96572937
>>96572943
>>96572946
This is why I like Star Trek's society; it's the Culture without having failible pagan computer-gods breathing down everyones' necks to behave.

While on the subject of the Federation’s citizen do they have laws for how young you can be to get a “job”?
Can a 12 year old be a waiter? Could a Wesley Crusher tier genius operate heavy machinery?

>>96575337
No real clue. Probably too skubby to comment on, anon.

>>96575337
There are certainly child labour laws, but if grandad wants to have his grandson peel a few spuds at his family owned restaurant then nobody is going to freak out. As for the other stuff, would you want a 12 year old waiter? I certainly wouldn’t.

>>96523643
I'm turning to stone at the sheer ugliness of this monster.

>>96575337
They let Wesley Crusher fly the Enty-D so children are probably allowed to do whatever the fuck they want, laws and regulations only exist to make Harry Kim break up with his alien girlfriend

>>96553899
I once experienced bij
It was awful

>>96576389
Human 12 year old? No. I could see a Vulcan one maybe. Might depend on species but at the same time this might get into some weird territory so it might be best to drop before someone shows up trying to explain how it is actually fine to be with X species when they are Y years old because Z and that would only kill the thread.

>>96576507
>before someone shows up trying to explain how it is actually fine to be with X species when they are Y years old because Z
Whoa, cool it with the anti-Talaxianism

>>96576547
Nah, that's just Neelix.

>>96576547
Hey, Tom's the one who got her pregnant and gave his bff a loli bride.

>>96573066
This was DS9's biggest(among many) failings IMO. You've got Feddie officers in an atypical context *and* a bunch of Ferengi around to bounce shit off of, and the best they could do was a single exchange between Jake & Nog that basically goes
>Nog: Ey yo use your own money oh I forgot you have none lol anyway how does this self improvement shit work anyway?
>Jake: Uhhhhhh, uhhhh, IT JUST DOES OKAY SHUTUP

>>96575337
Weshley Crusher is a prime example as to why such a thing is ultimately undesirable.

>>96573179
I recently reread The Player of Games, and there was a bit towards the end where the drone implies that the Culture's language itself does some shaping of the people who speak it.
Where Azad is a hypercompetitive imperialist society, and their language reflects that. Gurgeh spends long enough speaking that language and kinda loses himself in the violent, petty impulses.

That book came out in 1988 and would have come out of the same mental health cultural soup that put Troi on the bridge. I feel like this is the sort of thing Gene would have loved to shoehorn into the show, but couldn't turn it into a coherent story idea.

>>96572937
>>96572943
>>96572946
Federation society is basically what if the poor people actually had time to indulge in hobbies without starving and losing the roof over their heads.

>>96573179
>>96579458
Ironic, because The Culture was obviously Iain Banks take on pushing TNG's Federation to asimovian extremes (and giving the Prime Directive the middle finger)

>>96580641
This.