Thread 96466207

What TTRPG system has the best combat in your opinion? What makes it shine compared to other systems out there?

dnd 4e because it's actually fun and dynamic

>>96466207 (OP)
GURPS, in particular GURPS melee combat. Its highly simulationist nature means that if I can think of a real life manuever, I can pretty easily replicate it using GURPS maneuvers, and combat, even between just two guys with swords, has a lot of thought and strategy behind it. The variety of manuevers also means that you can mechanically express a character through their fighting style in a way other systems struggle with. A big bruiser with a two handed axe fights in a meaningfully different way than a highly skilled knife user, and you can even portray how aggressive your character feels through things like All-Out Attacks.

Another upside of GURPS combat is the hit location/damage system. Where other systems will tell you that a dagger cannot, statistically, injure the average martial character in a mortal way with a single swing, in GURPS a dagger to the eye, vitals, or throat is always a danger, even to an experience knight or tough barbarian warrior.

>>96466207 (OP)
star trek: the rpg

>>96466313
GURPS combat seems like it would become hell once you go past a half dozen combatents

>>96466207 (OP)
FFd6 because every class is built thinking of combat first, the gameplay behind them is built to be various levels of different from each other, 4 stats means gishes are awesome to play, though gamified to extremes it's still narratively fun and things can be handwaved to the GM's leisure, and because even though it isn't that strong you can be a dragoon and !JUMP.
>>96466304
I love 4e and always implement the ritual sub-system no matter which system I'm playing. I also like using the maneuvers in WFRP 2e's combat system.

>>96466207 (OP)
7th Sea, hands down, not even a contest. Most fun and interesting combat ever conceived. Just don't touch 2nd edition.

>>96466429
It can get pretty slow with a lot of fighters, but generally a fight with a lot of people in it speeds up pretty fast after a good number of them start dying. Where gurps slows to a fucking crawl is a large number of enemies who are very difficult to kill, which is something most GMs avoid.

>>96466304
>weeaboo fightan magic martials
fuck no, and fuck you. 4e was like playing a fucking MMO. Pure and utter goddamn trash

Shadowrun's combat always has me going back the game despite the rules bloat each edition suffers. I think for a cyberpunk-genre system it beats Cyberpunk because Initiative Passes makes a character that it faster actually faster.

Cyberpunk RED is more accessible though due to simpler dice mechanics. Yet, really if you wanted to play David Martinez from the Edgerunners anime Shadowrun is better at simulating his Sandevistan(Wired Reflexs in SR)

>>96466498
its bait dumbass

>>96466429
>>96466496
I should also note that GURPS time to kill is pretty low, and large combats will generally make use of Mook rules, meaning that a lot of those combatants will resolve their turns very quickly and be taken out of the fight after one good hit.

>>96466498
>using tired old memes from 1d4chan

>>96466207 (OP)
i remember one time we ripped through 40-50 goblins in WFRP, and it took us only about an hour. no special rules for fighting a pack, just the regular ones. imagine any other somewhat serious system doing that.

>it's simplistic
it's literally the same stuff they use in Mordheim minis

for me, it's the unquestionable GOAT. the dedicated autism-corral class (spellcasters), where they can have fun with complexity without bogging down the rest of the game, is like the cherry on top

>>96466207 (OP)
Lancer. Damage/death system is fun.

>>96466207 (OP)
If the systems I've played, I think I enjoyed DH2e (and by extension the other FFG 40k games) the most. There are plenty of things to do in combat, both for melee and ranged, utilizing cover and terrain is rewarding, and unless you're playing a backline sniper you have plenty to do other than "Okay I half-action Aim and then shoot."
Its too bad the people I played with were mouth-breathers.
Surprisingly I've quite liked Wrath & Glory, I think its a decent successor even if it isn't as focused as the previous 40k rpgs. D6 dice pool has been more fun than I believed it would be.

>>96466304
This because of this. PF2 is 4E but boring.

>>96466207 (OP)
ADND with a group who actually understands how weapon type vs ac and initiative and speed factors work. Or Mythras.

4e d&d is the best

>>96466207 (OP)
Best combat experience I've had is legend of the Five Rings. Pretty much the only game I've ever had the pleasure of having a badass samurai duel.
Runequest Glorantha comes close, but I fucking hate strike ranks and how you need to consult tables all the fucking time.
>>96466913
Lancer is good in theory. Some people don't like the video game kind of rule adaptation, but I like it, in principle. In execution, Lancer is so horribly balanced that I never had fun with it. Itemization is dogshit, there are so many noob traps, and so much just general exploitable retardation. Not to mention that most builds just boil down to being a one-trick pony. It's funner to browse comp/con and imagine playing it than it is to play for real.

>>96467540
Draw Steel. Back and forth initiative makes it really easy to flow through combat, no rolling to hit so every turn damage is happening and the combat progresses, lots of movement and forced movement abilities keeps the battlefield dynamic, and lots of cool abilities to use.
I've never been a player, just a GM so I can't speak to the player experience but as a GM it's been the least tedious and most fun combat system I've used. There's even GM specific mechanics that actually make it kind of exciting and fun to run monsters.

>>96466207 (OP)
World of Five Nations.

>>96466207 (OP)
Since this is the thread its sort of poignant to ask in, how do I make combat quicker and more fun in my TTRPG system?

As of now "initiative" is decided based on context and player/creature stats, and from there whoever goes first rolls to hit, with the roll to hit score being decided by distance, speed, and size of the creature being attacked (there are "levels" for each, the specific quantity is not added/subtracted from RTH), and specifies where on the body they are attacking, with what weapon, and how (each weapon has a certain number of attacks allowed, with "improvised" attacks (ie; clubbing someone with the pommel of a sword) being set to defaults)). The players stat modifiers affect roll to hit. At the same time, the defending creature is expected to roll and decide upon a dodge or a parry (regardless of whether roll to hit succeeds; they are rolling at the same time), with the advantage being given to the attacker. If the dodge or parry fails, the attacker rolls for damage, which is decided based upon where the weapon lands (which is decided by the degree of success of the RTH), among other more specific things, such as armor coverage of the affected area.

Does this seem convoluted? The system is being purposefully designed so that a player is always in anticipation or actively performing, but I want to cut down on the number of pure calculations involved (although I dont see how I would, especially with distance).

>>96467668
Glad to hear. Im waiting on my books to arrive to give it a go, very much looking forward to it

>>96467635
the one trick pony thing is kind of true but if you are playing with alot of mech catalogs its very fun to exploit different gimmicks. I really enjoyed how mecha enabled you to play a ton of different character sheets while keeping a cohesive narrative for your pilot. In that way this is one of the most playable games and that improves the combat. Its not pefect but you can see how its left a legacy and is inspiring games like draw steel and dagger heart.

I played alot of 13th age but I'm not sure it has the best combat around. 3,5 with good balance is pretty hard to top.

for VRPGs its without a doubt Tactics Ogre One ision

>>96468213
One Vision

>>96468213
>Its not pefect but you can see how its left a legacy and is inspiring games like draw steel and dagger heart.
I haven't played Draw Steel, but Dagger Heart is a pile of shit, so I assume they're both just garbage.
The trio of garbage RPGs for retards right now Dagger Heart, Draw Steel, and Cosmere.
Absolute fucking slop. You don't want to compare anything to that garbage favorably.

Gubat Banwa has excellent combat

>>96468238
I wonder if it is that they want to play Marvel super heroes and they want the system to legitimise this style of fantasy. Or perhaps it's that these systems are needlessly complex, and so "figuring them out" takes a while, and eventually when they reach the end of their journey and understand them, they'll move on to the next system that is needlessly complex. Who knows? All I know is that 4e rising from its grave is a sick joke.

>>96466313
Can you provide some examples of
>I can pretty easily replicate it using GURPS maneuvers, and combat, even between just two guys with swords
and also
>A big bruiser with a two handed axe fights in a meaningfully different way than a highly skilled knife user

Daggerheart

>>96466429
It certainly does slow down a lot if you play out everything in detail. Personally, I use a slightly modified version of the "One-Man Armies" optional rule from GURPS Supers.
Basically, a number of fighters on one side of a conflict can combine all their attacks into one Attack roll, with a bonus to hit depending on the number of attacks. The margin of success on the roll then determines the number of attacks that actually hit. The defender(s) then make a single Defense roll to avoid all of the attacks, with their margin of success determining how many attacks are avoided.
Most NPCs are treated as mooks, dying in one hit, which speeds things up even more. But if the exact damage is important, then make one damage roll, subtract DR, then multiply the penetrating damage for the number of attacks. In any case where skill levels, damage, or DR differ, use the approximate average.
This lets me quickly resolve combat between dozens of fighters in about as much time as it takes for one PC to resolve his turn, all without sacrificing too much detail to abstraction.

>>96468344
NTA, but I can highlight some ways where the two fighting styles of...
>A big bruiser with a two handed axe fights in a meaningfully different way than a highly skilled knife user
...might differ in game mechanics.

big bruiser two-handed axe user:
>uses Swing damage, which deals about twice as much damage as Thrust damage, but suffers extra penalties to damage in close combat or underwater
>uses Cutting damage, which is good for causing bleeding, amputating limbs, slicing major arteries, and inflicts 1.5x injury if it penetrates armor
>has longer reach
>has a Reach of 2 meters, so any foe with shorter reach will have to rush the axe wielder, taking a Move and Attack maneuver at a penalty to skill and defenses, or a full-on All-Out Attack, if they want to actually get to him; but the axe will be nearly impossible to use if the user is forced into close combat and can't take a step to back away
>is Unbalanced, which means it can't be used to parry on the same turn it is used to attack, so the wielder must dodge, block, or be unafraid to take a hit
>if the user has high Strength, then that means he has more Hit Points, and more Basic Lift to carry heavier armor without being slowed down; such a warrior may favor All-Out Attacks, as he has less to fear if he is hit

>>96469086
Continuing...

skilled knife user:
>uses Thrust damage, which deals less damage, but gets a damage bonus for being used in a reversed grip and suffers no damage penalty for close combat
>uses Impaling damage, which can target gaps in armor, vital organs, the brain through eye sockets in the skull, and joints to more easily cripple limbs; as with Cutting damage, it may also cause bleeding and target major arteries; it inflicts 2.0x injury to the head and torso, but only 1.0x to the limbs as they lack vital organs
>its lack of reach puts it at a disadvantage against anyone with longer reach for the reasons stated above, but also makes it ideal for close combat and especially grappling, since it is one-handed
>has a penalty to parry, but can parry on the same turn it is used to attack, necessitating high skill to defend one's self with
>if used with the Main-Gauche skill to parry, then it gets Fencing Weapon benefits: giving an extra bonus to defend on a Retreat and a reduced penalty to parry multiple attacks on the same turn, but imposing an encumbrance penalty to attack and defend, so this is a style which favors a fighter who is lightly equipped and light on his feet
>to compensate for low damage, the knife user must target hard-to-hit locations, which requires high skill; he won't have the Strength to carry heavy armor or take a hit, so he will never All-Out Attack unless he can guarantee a staggering or killing blow

>>96467676
live and prosper naruchad

>>96469086
>>96469091
Got it.
That's a lot of moving parts.
I like it.

>>96468344
I could type out a long post showing a swordfight, but since I'm lazy I'll just post a youtube video that does the same thing.
https://youtu.be/RR66tCSZYO8

>>96469176
I should note this is broadly overcomplicated compared to most actual gurps combat, but as an example of how complex you can actually simulate, its great.

>>96469176
>>96469185
That works too, thanks.

>>96466510
>Yet, really if you wanted to play David Martinez from the Edgerunners anime Shadowrun is better at simulating his Sandevistan(Wired Reflexs in SR)
I was playing in a Cyberpunk 2020 game when another player (who had come into Cyberpunk only after watching the Edgerunners anime) was complaining how the Sandevistan in the book doesn't give you extra actions.
I commented if this were Shadowrun, then you would get extra turns in combat just from having higher initiative.
He immediately began screeching "Yeah, but Shadowrun is fucking unplayable!"
Every time we ran into a problem with game mechanics, he would give his take on how things should be different. I would always chime in with a game mechanic from Shadowrun that did exactly what he wanted, and he would respond the same way.
Later, he expressed interest to the GM in playing a campaign based off of the setting from Arknights. The GM then mentioned a game he planned to run that might incorporate some elements of Arknights, which got him really interested. But as soon as the GM said he was running it in Shadowrun, he immediately lost all interest.
He then went on to make his own homebrew system, which I once caught a glimpse of. It's pretty much just Shadowrun, but worse, like trying to reinvent the wheel and failing.
I don't get what it is with these kinds of players. They have literally the thing they want right in front of them, but they all throw it away out of sheer stupidity.

>>96469188
Glad it helps. GURPS is often pidgeonholed into just "the setting which can run anything", when its also got a really good combat system even if you are running traditional medieval fantasy.

>>96466207 (OP)
Talisman Adventures.
Although the system as a whole is a mess with a lack of proof reading.
I'll try to sum up, what I like about it:
>Rolls are usually 3d6, roll over target number
>Enemies mostly deal damage as reaction to (even successful) player rolls
>You can avoid this by rolling doubles or triples
>Or by spending a meta currency (if your roll is a success)
>You gain this meta currency by rolling a 6 on your third die (it is coloured differently)
>Players can perform support actions to increase rolls from allies
>Enemies have a number of actions they can make each round (usually 1)
>They can respond to each attack made against them
>If no actions are made against them or the number was lower than their number of actions, they get to act after the players
In practice this makes for really dynamic combat. Instead of everyone just performing their standard attacks against tge closest target, it's often adviseable to let someone with fate (meta currency) attack the big hitters. Others with low health can perform support maneuvers while the rest try to engage other enemies. Due to the random distribution of fate this alone leads to shifting battle tactics each round.
Of course this goes into more depth with defense and protect actions, class abilities, spells etc. and it has an in depth follower mechanic.

>>96466207 (OP)
Honor+Intrigue because while it's almost all dedicated to melee, there are multiple distinct styles and maneuvers to make the combat feel dynamic and fighters distinct.

>>96467680
It's definitely convoluted imo, and it could lead to combat feeling active and engaging but its design seems irreconcilable with quick turns. To speed it up you'd need to remove stutter points where attackers need to check on charts and engage in back and forth dialogue with the target as they actively defend. Or combat would need to be designed around having fewer turns.

>>96469086
>>96469091
>"Meaningfully different"
>The modifiers and skills are slightly different but we take several pages to explain this
Wew lad.

>>96469086
>>96469091
I swear, GURPS players are mentally ill.

>>96474804
>>96474813
You don't play games.

>>96475111
nta but I do play games and I agree with them, if you love pages upon pages of rules to ultimately reach the same point of "insert pointy end into enemy" then god bless you, I hope you have a great time, but I think you're nuts.

>>96475351
Fair. I believe you. To each their own.

>>96475836
The wonderful thing about this hobby is that there are so many radically different ways to play, and they all are played and enjoyed, and they can all exist at the same time. What a wonderful hobby.

>>96466207 (OP)
The Halo TTRPG I made. A friend of mine is running it and it's been really janky, and we've had to make a bunch of tweaks to make the system feel a bit better overall, but combat has been actually fun and engaging, unlike other TTRPGs I've run or played where I fucking hate combat. It feels dynamic, tactical, and while that may be more down to the GM than the system, it is the most fun I've had with TTRPG combat.

>>96466429
It's incredibly slow compared to D&D, especially if you have players who refuse to think their moves in advance

>>96475351
NTA but even in DND 5e you're still referencing pages and pages of rules for a basic melee attack, you're just so familiar with them that you don't realise.

The basis of calculating whether you have advantage/disadvantage, which stat you add, how you calculate that stat, whether you add your proficiency bonus and how much that bonus is, whatever the enemy's AC is, and the rule consequences or each dice roll all require reference to multiple separate pages of rules.

>>96466207 (OP)
All the classes played the same pretty much in 4e

>>96469189
He probably just hated the setting or he hated the people he associated with who play it. You could never catch me playing a War Hammer 40k or adjacent game of any sort no matter what cause the settings is hella cringe and every single WH player at my game shop are fat grease balls who scream "HERESY!" at every single opportunity they get. No, I don't give a fuck that your Dark Heresy or your WHRPG book or whatever the fuck are "super cool," I want nothing to do with your ilk.

>>96466207 (OP)
It has it's problems, but I find Pathfinder 2e has enough variables to be interesting while still having clear enough rules that there's guidance for most situations

>>96469189
I've been running a RED campaign for a little bit, but I've been kinda disappointed in the combat system; it doesn't feel very lethal or snappy, just feels clunky without any benefit. How is 2020 in comparison? I'd gladly have a much more clunky combat system if it made the game feel more high stakes or realistic. If not, how is Shadowrun for gun autism?

>>96475351
>pages upon pages of rules
That's just a rule book. Not an unusual sight in this hobby.

>>96477804
>or he hated the people he associated with who play it.
I tried twice to get into VtM, and failed twice because the two groups I found, which were wildly different IRL, acted like stereotypical 90s/00s goths the moment the game started. Vampires seem so cool on paper, but I hate the entire psychosexual hot-topic subculture associated with them. Mind you, there are virtually no goths anywhere near where those two groups of friends gathered, and having never seen one IRL my entire experience with goths comes from movies like Grandma's Boy or Cradle of Fear, but both groups managed to act exactly like that when playing VtM.
Needless to say, I never played it again.

>>96466207 (OP)
Not a specific systems, but any ttrpg that has low health and where healing isn't (relatively) easy, like CoC or Genesys where the tank has maybe a dozen hit points. Combat should be a frightening thing that requires thought and planning to avoid extreme consequences, not just "hm everyone looks bored, guess I'll have them roll the dice for a half hour".

>>96478121
>it doesn't feel very lethal or snappy, just feels clunky without any benefit
With a few minor tweaks it can be. Disallow bullet dodging at REF 8 and require cyberware like a Kerenzikov or something to do it, and even then limit its usage. Alternatively bump the requirement to 10+ since that's only achievable through cyber enhancements.

Bullet dodging being so easy to do even sans cyberware is genuinely retarded and completely kills the flow of the game. Reminds me of the WebM from 2077 of the guy shooting an NPC with the smart gun who dodges every bullet then T-poses.

Also feel like armour needs to be changed to be more about resistance than straight blocking, but I never took upon myself to do it since removing bullet dodging seemed to do a good enough job when I played.

>>96478519
>disable bullet dodge
NTA. I never found bullet dodge to be a problem. TNs for ranged attacks are high enough that if you're able to beat them, most normal people don't have enough Dodge skill to even bother worth rolling. It's health numbers that are a problem. I can dump five rounds into a normal unarmored person and he still won't drop. Disabling bullet dodge made PCs somewhat more vulnerable, but didn't do anything for minor NPCs. I found lowering health to be a better solution.

>>96479076
Decent point though we probably had very different parties. The two solos in my party were so fucking geeked out that they were headshotting on just about every attack, so NPCs being able to dodge those made it a problem and slowed the game down. A successful head shot was a 1 shot kill almost every time, so for us removing that ability (both ways) really upped the stakes, since everyone was 1 unlucky roll away from death if they weren't wearing a helmet. I do think the game is maybe intentionally based around that, unfortunately. Which means suck shit if you're any class other than a Solo or you're not borged up.

>>96478121
>How is 2020 in comparison?
Even more clunky. We tried RED and 2020. RED's rules were at least more streamlined, better explained, and better organized. 2020 is hard to navigate, has rules spread out everywhere, has many disparate rules that directly contradict each other, and if you try to find an answer online you'll get three different answers for the same question. But we still ended up switching from RED to 2020 because it had a whole bunch of more content and we didn't like the general feel of RED.
2020 is generally more lethal, since TNs for ranged attacks are a lot lower, Autofire gives a bonus to hit and can easily score dozens of hits, Called Shots to the head are half as difficult (-4 to hit, instead of -8), random hit location means any untargeted attack might sometimes score a headshot anyways (a 1-in-10 chance), you can't dodge bullets without special cyberware (you need Reactive Body Plating and the attacker needs to be using a smartgun or an electronic targeting system of some kind), longarms deal more damage (e.g., carbines are 5D6, full-power rifles are 6D6, and anti-material rifles are 6D10), all damage has a chance to stun (roll Body to resist and recover), and everyone risks death after only 12 points of damage.
Meanwhile, armor generally gives more SP (about ~50% more on average), armor can be layered for a small bonus to SP at an encumbrance penalty (up to +5 SP per extra layer, if all layers are within 4 SP of each other), and the Body attribute gives a small reduction (from -0 at Body 2 to -5 at Body 12) to damage instead of adding more Health.
>If not, how is Shadowrun for gun autism?
I'd say Shadowrun is even better for gun autism, since you have like a whole bunch of gun modifications available and up to half a dozen slots to mount accessories. My rec is 5E for maximum autism. Combat is not as deadly as 2020, but still deadlier than RED. Personally, of the three systems, I like Shadowrun best.

>>96475351
How you arrive at an end and what that end does is way more important than the end itself.

>>96476326
Wrong. Some preferences are better than others.

>>96479449
No.

>>96466207 (OP)
Prowlers and Paragons, obviously.

>>96466207 (OP)
I like mythras, its quite mortal, you can chop limbs, it has cool stuff to do and quite a breakable but fun magics. Not ideal for combat heavy games tough, getting killed is quite easy, as you have limited action and can be mobed be chaff quite easy.

>>96469189
>"Yeah, but Shadowrun is unplayable"
I hear shit like this all the time. I think its a combo of the unorthodox character creation and class agnostic philosophy that turns people off. The traditional TTRPG structure is not in the rules of Shadowrun. The game almost expects you to spend longer planning a shadowrun than actually preforming one.

On top of that people like to say the system is math heavy, which is untrue, it's basic algebra. You learn algebra in grade school. I imagine the only case where shadowrun can be described as easier to pick up is if your first experience is GURPS.

>>96481848
>On top of that people like to say the system is math heavy, which is untrue, it's basic algebra.
Most games are arithmetic

>>96474804
>>96474813
If you're not trolling, how are those two fighting styles not meaningfully different? They're not "slightly different" it plays completely different. How is "able to target your vitals" a "slightly different modifier"?

>>96475351
What game has good combat then? remember that's the question of the thread.

>>96466304
fpbp

>>96468344
>>I can pretty easily replicate it using GURPS maneuvers, and combat, even between just two guys with swords
Now I play dungeon fantasy, which is just [powered by gurps] and not 100% gurps, but lets take, for example, the very simple "grab some guy and cut his throat" action.
In the typical D&D derived system, this action is completely abstracted. Grabbing someone usually just immobilizes the enemy and is more of a way to control the enemy. And you can't really target anyone's throat, that's a description you say for after you remove their hit points. Any non-assassin player that goes "I sneak behind him, cover his mouth with my hand and slit hist throat"! will be faced with "ok, roll to attack with advantage. You hit? Roll damage." And since he's likely not gonna kill, that description will not be used because "hp are not meat points so actually you didn't cut his throat".

In Dungeon Fantasy, using the Fantastic Dungeon Grappling rules:
>dual attack action from behind
>enemy cannot defend since it's an attack from behind.
>attack 1: grab the enemy, targeting head, inflicting control point damage.
>attack 2: spend the control points in a devastating attack to the neck.
>even if the enemy survives due to some sort of supernatural durability, you do get all the effects of hitting the neck, it's not just fluff to make the fight sound cooler
With gurps, it's not just "fluff". What you describe your character do is exactly what your character will do (assuming you hit the skill rolls of course)

>>96468310
>Gubat Banwa
can I get a tl;dr?

>>96482469
>How is "able to target your vitals" a "slightly different modifier"?
Literally all it affects is damage bro.

>>96467668
is that a system or were you humorously threatening him

>>96467668
buy an ad

>>96481848
Shadowrun is great and I like the planning autism but the damage soak mechanism fucking SUCKS and I hate it

>>96482539
>I sneak behind him, cover his mouth with my hand and slit hist throat
like a sneaking roll, probably opposed only if the npc is actively looking for a threat. if passed, it's just a straightforward hand to hand combat roll. i don't think it even triggers combat mechanics. if it feels too easy, the gm can always throw more obstacles down the line. generally, in games i've played, combat mechanics only come into play once you can place your figurines on the mat, with positions, initiative, the whole thing.

>>96482961
Yes, a GM can overrule any system and just say what happens. More importantly, what I described can happen in the middle of combat as a result of positioning, not just to lone disposable NPCs.
If you attack an enemy from behind in GURPS he gets no active defense, so you can set up devastating combinations with grappling and close range weapons like knives.
You can't just go in the middle of combat in D&D (maybe you can in 2e or 3e, I'm only familiar with 5e) and say "I'm behind this guy, so I grab him and slit his throat" but in GURPS, you can in fact go
>i'm behind this guy, so I'll All-out attack: double and use my first attack to grab and my second attack to attack his neck

>>96482672
NTA, but you're talking out your ass. A targeted attack to the vitals has the following effects:
>3.0x wounding modifier for Impaling and Piercing damage, or 2.0x for Tight-Beam Burning damage
>immediate Knockdown roll if injury is enough to cause Shock (injury over HP/10), at -5 if a Major Wound (injury over HP/2)
>if using the rules for Realistic Injury (from GURPS Martial Arts), then bleeding in the vitals can only be staunched via Surgery (not First Aid), and a Major Wound calls for a roll on the Vital Wounds Table
>Note: some enemies (e.g., Homogeneous and Diffuse characters) don't have vitals to target

>>96483129
>You're talking out your ass
>All it affects is, infact, damage

>>96483129
This sounds very comparable to a crit fish build from almost any d20 clone.
>Big damage
>Sometimes you can do extra effects
>Some enemies are immune to it

>>96483159
>getting stunned and falling prone is the same as damage
?
>>96483169
>Sometimes
No, not sometimes, almost every single hit to the vitals forces a knockdown check. And, more importantly, it's not a "build" anyone with a piercing or impaling weapon can do it. it's actually pretty easy since it's only a -3 to target the vitals.

Things that require special feats or builds in other games are normal part of combat in GURPS. For example, grappling, anyone can do it, even without a skill. You can even use weapons to grapple without some advantage chain of prerequisites.

>>96483218
>getting stunned
Not a result of hitting the vitals.
>Falling prone
Happens with damage.

>>96483218
>No, not sometimes, almost every single hit to the vitals forces a knockdown check
Nnno, only if the injury is enough to cause shock, and only with a penalty if you do even more damage. And a check means it's not guaranteed.
>And, more importantly, it's not a "build"
Anyone can crit in d20 too.

>>96483222
>Not a result of hitting the vitals.
?
Do you know what a knockdown check is? If you fail a knockdown check you are prone AND stunned.
>Happens with damage.
Damage alone won't cause knockdown unless its a major injury. While a hit to the vitals guarantees a knockdown check.

>>96483230
>Nnno, only if the injury is enough to cause shock
That means 1 damage for anything with less than 20hp. And not only is 20hp a lot, even if you have 20 hp that means all it takes is 2 damage.
And the minimum damage you can do with a vitals hit is 3. So you have to have 40hp to be able to avoid the check. 40hp is huge. A hill giant has 25.
>Anyone can crit in d20 too.
But crits don't cause special effects unless you have some special ability to do so.

>>96483230
>Anyone can crit in d20 too.
>comparing completely relying on luck vs actively aiming for a result
Bruh I understand not liking gurps but you're just being stubborn for no reason now.

>>96483254
>?
This occurs with enough damage regardless. It also isn't even specific to the vitals.
So yes, the only change is damage.

>>96483254
>That means 1 damage for anything with less than 20hp
GURPS has armor as DR.
>And the minimum damage you can do with a vitals hit is 3
No, it isn't.
>But crits don't cause special effects
Depends on what ruleset you're using, but vitals hits also don't have any unique special effects like the crit effects you're probably thinking of. Practically though there isn't a meaningful difference, and imo it makes more sense to have certain rules be special effects instead (Like 3.5e requiring an ability or feat to cause knock down on a crit, or having things trigger from damage that crits reach more easily).

>>96483306
>the only change is damage
automatically forcing a knockdown check is not just a difference in damage. Are you being intentionally obtuse?

>>96483345
>Automatically forcing a knockdown check
Can happen with enough damage anyways, illiterate.

>>96482828
What don't you like about it?
I've always felt it feels better than say DnDs pass/fail AC

>>96483342
>GURPS has armor as DR.
Yes, and? That doesn't change what I said. Damage that pings off the DR isn't damage dealt.
>No, it isn't.
1*3=3
every damage type that hits vitals will do x3 damage so the minimum vitals damage is 3
> don't have any unique special effects
No one ever mentioned "Unique". It's simple more than "just damage".
>there isn't a meaningful difference
Relying on rolling a 20 vs being able to specifically aim for the effect is a massive difference.

>>96483350
>Can happen with enough damage anyways, illiterate.
If it requires "enough damage" it's not automatically.

>>96482539
>Now I play dungeon fantasy, which is just [powered by gurps] and not 100% gurps
That actually sounds pretty enticing as an entry point.
I imagine that it's easier and more focused to try that than just dive into GURPs books directly if all you know is D&D, right?

>>96483385
>Yes, and? That doesn't change what I said.
Yes it does, because it means you need damage over DR, not just 1 damage.
>1*3=3
Ok?
>every damage type that hits vitals will do x3 damage
Ah, you didn't even read it. Pitiful, try again.
>No one ever mentioned "Unique".
I just did.
>It's simple more than "just damage".
Again, not really, as you can achieve the same effects just by doing big damage. The question of whether it's better to fish for the vitals or not just comes down to how much damage you expect to get out of it vs alternatives.
>Relying on rolling a 20 vs being able to specifically aim for the effect is a massive difference.
Not really, as everyone can still do it.

>>96483394
Ok, thanks for agreeing with me.

>>96466313
Why would I bother with the useless mess of autism that is GURPS when I can use ACKS?

>>96483408
Yes, Dungeon fantasy takes away the whole "build your own system" aspect of gurps and just builds it as a complete package for you. If you want to play dungeon crawl style games but using GURPS DF is a great entry point.
Note that you'll want to look for "Dungeon Fantasy RPG" specifically, because there's also a (compatible) series of separate booklets that is also called "Dungeon Fantasy" that are used if you already have the base GURPS books. They don't have the full set of rules unlike DFRPG.

>>96483427
ACKS is a game about avoiding combat, it's not particularly known for having great combat.

>>96483445
>Yes, Dungeon fantasy takes away the whole "build your own system" aspect of gurps and just builds it as a complete package for you.
Unfortunately it still sucks because GURPS was never built with or for dungeon crawls in the first place. Meanwhile other systems have had literal decades to especially build off of and iterate on those concepts.

>>96483456
>ACKS is a game about avoiding combat
It's called Adventurer, Conqueror, King. You don't avoid combat unless you want to. And guess what? Sometimes you'll want to because just murdering monsters to advance isn't good design, it's MMO design.

>>96483411
>Again, not really,
Again, not really, as you can achieve the same effects just by doing big damage.
Except that if you do big damage, going for the vitals means the enemy now has -5 on the HT check to avoid, which is huge, since if you fail by five or more you are straight up knocked out.
>Not really, as everyone can still do it.
Yes, really. Being able to decide on your tactics is a huge difference between just rolling and hoping for the best.

Get your mind out of your mindless gurps hatred for one second: Being able to force a crit in D&D makes a huge difference in combat. It's one of the reasons hold person and stuff like that is a huge deal. Creating an opportunity to aim for the vitals or legs or head all can completely change how combat goes.

>>96483471
>And guess what? Sometimes you'll want to because just murdering monsters to advance isn't good design, it's MMO design.
I agree, not sure what that has to do with the fact that ACKS isn't know for having good combat.
I'm not even saying acks is bad, I just don't see how it's relevant here.

>>96483462
>Unfortunately it still sucks
It's actually great. And don't bitch about me posting an opinion in response to you posting an opinion.
>literal decades
bro do you know how old GURPS is? And unlike D&D, it actually iterates in each edition instead of just completely changing the design every edition.

>>96483497
>Except that if you do big damage, going for the vitals means the enemy now has -5 on the HT check to avoid
This happens with a hit to the face too. And groin. Again, it's not really particular to the vitals and a modifier isn't a big deal.
>Yes, really.
Not really.
>Being able to decide on your tactics is a huge difference between just rolling and hoping for the best.
You are rolling and hoping for the best eitherway, and the decision will only matter on 3 possible dice results out of 18.
>Get your mind out of your mindless gurps hatred
Nowhere in my post did I critique it though, or even say I hate it. You should stop being so defensive.

>>96483514
>It's actually great
No, it's shit. One of the worst and least fun systems I've ever played. I'd seriously rather try 5e again than GURPS.
>bro do you know how old GURPS is?
It has spent exactly zero of the years prior to dungeon fantasy in trying to design and iterate on tried and true dungeon crawling mechanics. learn to read faggot.
>D&D
Lmao nobody cares about D&D, we're talking about ACKS here motha fucka.

>>96483462
>Unfortunately it still sucks because GURPS was never built with or for dungeon crawls in the first place. Meanwhile other systems have had literal decades to especially build off of and iterate on those concepts.
bro 5e doesn't even tell you how to key a dungeon anymore, it's not iterating on shit

>>96483550
5e also hasn't spent literal decades building off of past concepts and iterating on them, it was just "Oh fuck the MMO edition failed, WIPE THE SLATE CLEAN!"
However, there are many systems that have actually iterated on what worked.

>>96483534
>a modifier isn't a big deal
bro do you know how huge a -5 is when you're rolling a 3d6? When most enemies will have 14 HT if they're ridiculously tanky?
>the decision will only matter on 3 possible dice results out of 18.
What? You only need to hit. You don't need to crit to get the vitals effect.
>but it's only a -3
First of all, that is a massive difference in percentages. We are rolling a 3d6, a curve, not a d20.
Second of all, you are making a choice between going for other parts of the body. It's not just "should I vitals or should not target a body part" it's "should I go for vitals or go for arms, or legs, or neck, or face, or eyes, or head"
Next you'll tell me that crippling someone's arm is not a big deal.

What exactly "Makes a difference" then?
Because if being able to force a crit in D&D isn't a big deal, I don't know what is.

>>96483547
ACKS is just D&D basic, bro.
And if you'll argue that it's not, ACKS was released after dungeon fantasy btw, dungeon fantasy 1 was released in 2008.

>>96483534
You don't understand how 3d6 works, let alone GURPS.

>>96483589
>bro do you know how huge a -5 is
You were saying a -3 wasn't much and could easily be written off, now a -5 is "huge", and regardless you didn't understand what I was actually saying: A modifier is still not a big deal.
>What?
Kek, you need to learn how math works lil bro. On 15 of the possible die rolls, it didn't matter whether you had that modifier or not, you either weren't gonna hit anyways or were gonna hit anyways.
>First of all, that is a massive difference in percentages.
Depends on the SL.
>Second of all, you are making a choice
Again not really, it doesn't matter on 15 of the 18 results, you are rolling and hoping for the best anyways.

imagine believing that being able to do a crit in D&D by simply getting a -3 to your to hit wouldn't be a bit deal lmao.

>>96483621
>You were saying a -3 wasn't much
Yeah, a -3 in attack skills isn't much but a -5 in HT is huge. Because HT is always going to be considerably lower than any monster attack skill.
There's hardly anything statted with HT 16, while skill level 16 is typical in dungeon fantasy.
>On 15 of the possible die rolls
Google "bell curve" right now.
>>Second of all, you are making a choice
Did your brain short circuit there and you stopped reading?
I'm no longer talking about dice, I'm talking about choice of WHERE YOU HIT
>"should I go for vitals or go for arms, or legs, or neck, or face, or eyes, or head"
read nigga read.

And you still haven't answered
>What exactly "Makes a difference" then?
If you ignore this question the second time you prove that you are just trolling and not looking to discuss the subject of the thread.

>>96483621
If a character has an HT of 11, they succeed a flat check against it 62.5% of the time. If they eat a -5 to it they succeed 9.26% of the time.

>>96483605
>ACKS is just D&D basic, bro.
No, it isn't. You've never read it, you've never played it. Someone is playing it in /osrg/ right now and posted their campaign btw.
>And if you'll argue that it's not, ACKS was released after
ACKS was being worked on back in 2003 you fucking retard, I'm pretty sure there are people with 1st editions of it dated to then.

not trying to sound inflammatory, but all these D&D persons seeing the op, and deciding to click on this thread, and like chime in.

>>96483654
>Yeah, a -3 in attack skills isn't much but a -5
Not interested in the double standard, sorry.
>Google "bell curve"
Google "what is 18-3", bell curves change literally nothing with what I said. If anything it makes the modifier mean even less more often.
>Did your brain short circuit there and you stopped reading?
Just because I don't quote the full passage to save space, anon, does not mean I did not comprehend your full post. You'd really think you'd understand this since you're doing the same thing, but apparently not!
And regardless, not really. It doesn't matter on 15 of 18 possible results, you are rolling and hoping for the best anyways.
Math nigga, math.

>And you still haven't answered
There is zero point in answering a question you aren't yet capable of understanding. It's like asking me to explain algebra to you when you still don't understand how to add 2 and 2 together. Before then, demonstrate that you actually understand why a -3 modifier only matters on 3 out of 18 possible results, since saying that sent you into a paroxysm of anger.
inb4 "heh you didn't answer it the way I wanted, that counts as ignoring it!"

>>96483657
And I'm sure the gurps line editor was working on the dungeon fantasy line since before it was released. I'm sure he'd answer exactly when in his official forums but I'm not gonna ask. Either way both had around two decades of being worked on.
Also it's foolish to assume gurps wasn't used in dungeon crawls since the first edition, it's designed to run all kinds of campaigns.
>fucking retard
whoa bro, no need for hostility, I didn't even say acks was bad.

>>96483656
If a character has an SL of 10, they succeed on a hit 50% of the time. If they eat a -3 to it they succeed 16.2% of the time.

>>96483681
>And regardless, not really. It doesn't matter on 15 of 18 possible results, you are rolling and hoping for the best anyways.
Why are you still talking about the penalties to the 3d6 while quoting me talking about hit locations.
>There is zero point in answering a question
Oh, you're just trolling then. Goodbye.

>>96483687
>And I'm sure the gurps line editor was working on the dungeon fantasy line
Show me a post referring to a 2003 or prior Dungeon Fantasy doc, anon. I'll wait.
>Either way both had around two decades of being worked on.
Lmao no, Dungeon Fantasy has zero iteration behind it. ACKS has decades of iteration behind its first edition, AND it has a second edition too.
>Also it's foolish to assume gurps wasn't used in
Nobody said it wasn't. I'm sure GURPS has been used in many things, all equally poorly unless it's science fantasy specifically, but nevertheless it certainly has.
>whoa bro, no need for hostility
Uhuh. Why don't you get to the part where you start complaining about how trading takes "entire spreadsheets" and quit with the song and dance.

>>96483696
>Why are you still talking about the penalties to the 3d6
You were still taking issue with and not understanding how modifiers work. Like most autists, you can't grasp that you're still just rolling and praying whether it's a bell curve or a flat probability.
>You didn't answer how I wanted, I give up!
Lmao you got inb4'd, get owned dumbass.

>>96483705
>trading takes "entire spreadsheets"
Trading in acks doesn't take entire spreadsheets, nor would it matter if it did.
I have in fact, played and enjoyed akcs, but I prefer GURPS.
I have no idea what boogieman you think I am, but you can go chase it somewhere else since you clearly have a bone to pick with someone and I'm just here to talk about combat systems I enjoyed.

>>96483707
>get owned dumbass.
Yup, obviously trolling. Sad state of /tg/ these days. I wish you guys would just post actual productive stuff like what system has combat you like in a thread about what system has combat you like instead of pointlessly wasting half the thread trolling people.

>>96483714
>I have in fact, played and enjoyed akcs, but I prefer GURPS.
For dungeon crawling? If you say yes then you're just lying and I don't believe you, especially since you didn't even know when ACKS was made or printed.
>but you can go chase it somewhere else
Nah, go lie somewhere else you autistic obsessed faggot.

>>96483727
ACKSfags and acting like they were properly socialized, name a less iconic duo.

>>96483737
LMAO See? I knew it was you all along, your posts are so fucking easy to tell apart even when you're trying to hide yourself, you can't help it. I bet you were searching the archives again just waiting for someone to post about enjoying ACKS so you could get pissy at them for daring to, even if it meant you had to dickride absolute trash like GURPS.

>>96483727
>especially since you didn't even know when ACKS was made or printed.
I have no idea when gurps was made or printed bro.
>For dungeon crawling? If you say yes then you're just lying
Why is that hard to believe?
Here's an entire blog about bringing things from acks to gurps dungeon fantasy. A lot of gurps fags just want to play D&D but with a system they like.
>https://enragedeggplant.blogspot.com/search?q=acks
This guy actually buys acks books and everything, even has the acks 2 stuff, but he still uses GURPS

>why are you shilling for some blog
since you won't believe what I personally do, here's irrefutable proof that some people enjoy acks but still prefers gurps for dungeon crawling.

>>96483750
First post in the thread, dipshit, you're just really fucking annoying as you suck off your terrible game. Everyone is the same person to you - no, ACKS just isn't a popular system because it has AIDS.

That guy is a falseflager, us ACKS enjoyers are much more shill.

>>96483754
>I have no idea when gurps was made or printed bro.
So you're retarded then, got it.
>Why is that hard to believe?
Because it sucks ass at it while ACKS is built for it from the ground up and has decades of work put into it, both in raw development and in past lessons learnt. GURPS has none of that.
>A lot of gurps fags just want to play D&D
Yes, sure, some do, and they're too autistic to just play a better system. If you ask me I'd guess the problem they all run into is not having anyone to run for them, or not having players who will learn a new system. Or more commonly for GURPS, not having players at all.

>>96483756
>>96483768
Always with the samefagging, god fucking forbid anons realize you're just one dedicated autist. Oh wait they have anyways because you're so obvious.

>>96483776
>Always with the samefagging
Repeating over and over that someone is samefagging doesn't make it true. I don't know why you think anybody would like ACKS outside of /osrg/.

>>96483776
>So you're retarded then, got it.
Do you really look up the date a book was made when reading it? I just skip to the meat of it.
Like if you're reading a shelock holmes book do you check the original date Arthur Conan Doyle published it?
>Because it sucks ass at it
I disagree, and I played ACKs before I ever played GURPS. Furthermore it's trivial to bring whatever is good from ACKs to GURPS.

>>96483784
>>96483786
Why do you think this screenshot proves anything, retard? It's easy to edit (you)s out. Everyone knows it.
>Do you really look up the date a book was made
Most books literally tell you when when they're dated to. You're retarded and illiterate, no wonder you got filtered by a system people actually play.
>I disagree
And we're aware that you're an illiterate retard so your opinions don't count in the firs tplace fishfag.

>>96483790
>Why do you think this screenshot proves anything, retard? It's easy to edit (you)s out. Everyone knows it.
Yes, all three posts were actually secretly me, and then I carefully edited all the (You)s out, purely to annoy you. Nobody in the whole world has ever thought ACKS was an overcomplicated trash system except literally one person, nobody has ever noticed that your response to somebody disagreeing with you about its relative quality compared to GURPS is calling them an "autistic obsessed faggot" except for that autistic obsessed faggot. In fact, he (it's me) is right behind you right now, moving your items around so that you get lost.

>>96483803
Additionally, you can't post twice in less than 1 minute without using a different IP, so I guess I cycled my proxy or posted on my phone but then had to edit my posts anyway. Schizophrenia.

>>96483803
>>96483807
It's not a secret, we all know it's you. It's always you. There is literally nobody else on this board dedicated to shitting on the most successful OSR system than you, because you're buttmad that it's better than you. I guess it'd make sense if you were a genuine GURPS lover though, it'd explain the jealousy since the shitshow that is Steve Jackson Games has literally been circling the drain for the last 5 years according to their own newsletters. Meanwhile ACKS II still breaks records for kickstarter funding sprees in the OSR category, oof.
>Additionally, you can't post twice in less than 1 minute without using a different IP
Gee I wonder why you know that!

>>96483823
>Gee I wonder why you know that!
Probably because every time I post it says [60, 59, 58, 57] in the corner of my post? Dipshit? Your IQ is probably lower than that number.

>>96483790
>Most books literally tell you when when they're dated to
Yeah, but do you really look at it? Why?
Also why do you keep insisting on this samefag thing when I've yet to say a single bad thing about ACKS? I played and enjoyed it, as I said.

>>96483823
>we all know it's you. It's always you.
Anons? Is it me? Do we all know this?

https://strawpoll.com/GPgVYQGdpna

>>96483827
>>96483834
>>96483843
>Probably because every time I post it says [60, 59, 58, 57] in the corner of my post?
And this tells you that you specifically need a different IP? And you know you can get around it with a proxy or a phone just because of that too? Huh?
Nah you know because it's what you do. I caught you.

>>96483834
>Also why do you keep insisting on this samefag thing when I've yet to say a single bad thing about ACKS? I played and enjoyed it, as I said.
He has schizophrenia which makes him sees conspiracies everywhere, and draw patterns where none exist. Unfortunately, 4chan's structure as an anonymous board seems to be exacerbating his condition.

>>96483849
>And this tells you that you specifically need a different IP? And you know you can get around it with a proxy or a phone just because of that too? Huh?
I know how the internet works, so yes.

>>96483843
Anon, let's just admit it. We're all just one person we also keep at least 3 different phones so we can shitpost at the same time. We can't keep this game anymore! He figured us out, man!

>>96483858
replying to yourself is really convincing me!

Nechronica a BEST.

I wish more systems used an AP turn/initiative system. It's best solution to initiative I've ever tried, especially being able to go into debt if you really want to go all-out.

>>96483868
Nothing can convince you, because you are either mentally ill or pretending to be.

But seriously, does anyone really check out the date of a book they're about to read?
Am I the only one who just skips all that shit and goes straight for the first actual page?

>>96483871
>everyone is da same person

>>96483869
>AP turn/initiative system
Not to sound like bumpfag but I don't know what that is.

>>96483873
No, it's pretty normal not to think about publishing dates much. Sometimes I'll look it up for whatever reason (e.g. did this book or that book come out first), but I don't store that knowledge in my brain.

>>96483881
>>96483873
>>96483867
>>96483858
I like how you replied to yourself here in the most awkward and stilted ways possible, but you're so busy samefagging you still couldn't keep a back and forth going so it just looks weird.

>>96483895
I like knowing that your undiagnosed schizophrenia probably makes you unable to hold down a job or maintain a social group, and thus are miserable all the time. It makes your annoying posts quite bearable.

>>96483873
I keep a general idea of when things came out, yeah. If that's difficult for you, you might be too stupid for the hobby.

>>96483881
good to know I'm the normal one here.

>>96483904
>Miserable samefagging NEET immediately projects his miserable life onto others
Pottery. You may be the most stereotypical 4chan user who actually uses 4chan.

>>96483906
>I keep a general idea of when things came out, yeah
But... Why?
to me it doesn't matter when something came out as long as I enjoy it.

>>96483913
You are having a meltdown that at least 3 different posters are actually the same poster. I'm not projecting, merely using your obvious and untreated mental illness as a barometer. I am gainfully employed and have friends.

I note, also, that you didn't claim this, because it's not true. Your untreated mental illness has probably had you rambling about how your boss is secretly putting mind control nanites in the cafeteria many a time, but you fail to recognize that this is why you got fired, instead blaming an imaginary samefag on 4chan for it.

BTW, just moved all your stuff around again. That's why things aren't where you remember leaving them.

>>96483932
>At least 3
Uhuh, you had to take so long writing this that you forgot to reply the other two times.
Notice how the "three" posters I replied to here >>96483895 only responded to me once btw. I'm sure he'll add another reply now that it's been pointed out.

>>96483948
Note: He still hasn't claimed to have a job or friends.

>>96483959
Note: He's still mad I called out his projection.

Now now I don't mind acks but can you at least mention why you think acks has good combat? That is the topic of the thread after all.

>>96483427
>useless mess of autism
>not ACKS
ACKS is the most useless autistic pile of junk I've ever had the displeasure of dealing with. GURPS is at least written by competent professionals.

>>96483959
NTA but why would being a wagie be a good thing? You give up half of your day just so can transfer wealth from your boss to your landlord.

>>96483880
Action point system

>>96483970
Uhuh. Why don't you tell us why and give us screenshots of the rules you take issue with and why you think those excerpts are "autistic piles of junk". Go on fishfag, we're waiting!

>>96483978
So if you have more AP you act first?

>>96483918
>But... Why?
It's useful if it ever comes up in a topic of conversation, since people tend to have a general idea of when something was made, even if I myself might not otherwise care.

It's also useful for keeping in mind why a book may be written a certain way. e.g. I don't hold it against many mid-2000s books for being autistic and crunchy because that was a high point for 3.5e and many systems took notes because hey, people clearly liked it when the rules covered a lot of shit they probably didn't need to.

>>96483963
See? Three posts in, and he won't write it.

>mfw people stopped shitting on gurps because ACKS attacked
Kind of a shame, I always enjoy pointlessly arguing about gurps criticisms.

>>96483987
I guess that makes sense. Maybe next book I read I'll look at it.

>>96484003
See? A hundred posts in, and he's still seething that I called him a friendless NEET.

>>96483985
Yes and if you don't spend them right based upon the situation then you could fuck yourself over

>>96483971
Money can be exchanged for goods and services. People only spend ~30% of their income on housing, and you can even buy your own home.

>>96484011
Four posts now. It's nice to know you are miserable IRL. :)

>>96484013
Wagies often make less money than neets and have less free time too. I sit on my ass collecting stonk money all day and make around 3k a month after bills.
>and you can even buy your own home.
Kek, 30 years ago but that markets done today, everything is going up up up and wages aren't following. Wagies are just cattle honestly

>>96484012
Sounds interesting. A shame I don't find the setting appealing.

>>96484017
Sorry anon, but I'm happy, I game, and I have friends, you can even go look in osrg and read about the games I'm in. But you won't because the mods have gotten sick of you and you can't even bear to look in our thread anymore, and knowing how happy I am would just chafe your miserable, friendless ass.

>>96484037
Finally, after being poked and prodded, he claims to have friends!

No job, though. :)

>>96484030
Good for you? Most people do not have a million dollars inheritance or whatever.

>>96484052
Neither did I, I'm just not retarded with money. Wagies are though kek, lotta them are working just because they're in debt and are stuck with useless degrees desu

>>96484063
If you were gainfully employed for long enough to earn a million dollars then you were a wagie first and are now retired. That's not the same as being incapable of holding a job because you have paranoid schizophrenia.

>>96484037
Yeah the guy's clearly just upset and has lost his mind after getting his system lightly critiqued.

>>96483880
AP = Action Points. In Nechronica, all characters on the board start a turn with their maximum action point value, and whoever has the highest value goes; if multiple characters are tied they go at the same time. You spend down AP until everyone is at or below 0 AP, and then the turn resets and everyone is at max, or max minus however far below 0 they went.

I just really like it a lot more than traditional turn orders used in stuff like DND. It makes turns a bit more... granular?
>can spend AP on normal attacks or movement
>and you can spend extra AP on riders if you've invested in those
>and you can spend AP on defensive stuff if you get attacked
>and in Nechronica's case you can also spend AP on specific abilities to modify rolls as they're made
>on top of all this you can build into more AP to not only go first, but possibly get multiple extra chances to act before the enemy
So some turns you're pelting the enemy with like 10 attacks because you built around making 1 AP attacks as much as possible and other turns you're burning like 8 AP on a giga-attack to wipe multiple enemies from existence. Sometimes you're burning most of your turn on defensive and support abilities as allies roll high and you want to help them capitalize. I find it way more engaging than the normal merry-go-round.

>>96484033
Not many can get behind guro loli doll rpg

>>96484069
>If you were gainfully employed for long enough to earn a million dollars
Why would you need to earn a million dollars? Just quit being retarded with money, ezpz. Shit like this is why you'll never actually be able to retire kek

>>96483654
>>96483725
>trolling
You should be able to tell the first time you asked him a dead simple question and he couldn't explain his idea in non-obfuscative non-provocative language.
He doesn't have anything substantiative to say, and the more you make him talk, the more sophist gibberish he'll spout.
But I appreciate you putting up the good fight, Anon. I don't even play GURPS, but I like seeing talk about actual, y'know, games.

>>96484085
Yeah I also cum in my diapers every time people argue about whether a -3 modifier is meaningful vs a -5 modifier and whatever, that's what games are all about mang

>>96484069
Buddy fucking laqueeshas can hold down their shitty government jobs. Literally any human being that wants to hold a job can do so. That you think going "I can hold down a job! can you??" was a flex is giving me secondhand embarrassment. Go back to talking about games.

>>96484104
The guy is mentally ill and incapable of holding down a job, which is why he never denied this even when pressed. I'm just enjoying that he's a miserable loser. I don't think it's particularly impressive to manage to hold a job, but it is funny to watch someone who is annoying de facto admit that they can't.

>>96484094
Why do you think about diapers in relation to cumming

>>96484112
>The guy is mentally ill and incapable of holding down a job
No, literally anybody can "hold down a job". If you genuinely think this, you are retarded and have no life experience.
Now, traditional games?

>>96484112
>de facto admit that they can't.
Speaking of schizophrenia.

>>96484116
>No, literally anybody can "hold down a job". If you genuinely think this, you are retarded and have no life experience.
The idea that anyone can hold down a job is actually insane bruh. Anybody can get hired for SOME job, but keeping it is a whole different story. Do you think nobody ever gets fired for cause?

>>96484113
Didn’t make sense not to shit and cum. Your dick gets hard and your head gets dumb.

>>96484123
>The idea that anyone can hold down a job is actually insane bruh.
Depends on what you mean by "hold down". Like, hold down for a full pay cycle? A year? Until you find a better opportunity? I've known literal kleptomaniacs who were able to stay hired for longer than all of these WHILE stealing from their fucking jobs like morons (Walmart stocker and a gas station clerk btw).
If you mean indefinitely, well fuck anon nobody can hold down a job forever, you can get randomly downsized for fired at almost anywhere.

>>96484123
>The idea that anyone can hold down a job is actually insane bruh.
Listen.
50 IQ down syndrome apes can do this. Picture someone that stupid. Now let me tell you, you're wrong, they're even stupider, they're 10x as stupid as whatever you just thought of. Now imagine someone 10x stupider than what you thought of.
That thing can hold down a job.
So yes, anybody can do it.

>>96484085
Thanks. I wish more people wanted to talk about the things they liked instead of just shitposting.

>>96484122
If you're repeatedly prompted "hey, you haven't denied being a friendless, jobless loser" and then finally give in and claim to have friends, it's a tacit admission you're jobless.

>>96484132
>>96484146
Yeah, many stupid people can hold jobs, as can kleptos. That's how pathetic schizophrenia anon is.

>>96484157
>Not saying exactly what I want you to say is the same as admitting to something!!!
Schizophrenic indeed.

>>96484157
No, anon, you're the one who is pathetic for genuinely believing anyone can't hold down a job and being unironically proud that you could. If that's the fallback for your ego? If telling yourself that, "Heh, sure he might have gotten me mad on the internet, but at least I have a job and I bet he doesn't" is where your mind goes? Fuck man, I'm sorry for the state you're in. At least it probably can't get any worse.

>>96484013
You don't need a job to have money retard.

>>96484157
Idk man, he either left the thread or quit posting but you still can't stop talking about him. I think most anons are a bit pathetic, but for once the most pathetic isn't the autistic ACKSfag.

>>96484161
>>Not saying exactly what I want you to say is the same as admitting to something!!!
>Schizophrenic indeed.
Nice to see that schizo ACKSnon is still btfo and crying and trying to use the "I'm rubber, you're glue" defense. The reason it works for you is that you have paranoid delusions every other poster is the same person, whereas I asked you, "Hey, do you have friends and a job?" and you responded with "I have friends," and then used that to infer that you don't have a job.

>>96484167
He didn't "get me mad," and it's not a fallback. If he'd claimed to have a job, then I'd probably believe he does, but at this point it's very obvious he doesn't.

>>96484180
What? Am I supposed to ignore posts that respond to me, because you've decided that we're no longer talking about ACKSanon?

>>96484189
>Nice to see that schizo ACKSnon is still btfo and crying and trying to use the "I'm rubber, you're glue" defense.
By your own logic you're a paranoid schizo with no job and no friends now lul

>>96484189
>He didn't "get me mad," and it's not a fallback
Ahhhh, yeah I think we all know that's not true at all, but there's nothing to be said to someone who's in denial and lacks self awareness.

>>96484189
This may shock you anon, but you should not continue to keep a shit flinging contest going, especially after the target of said shit flinging has stopped posting. Otherwise, you're just gonna get covered in shit, and you just end up looking like you're booty blasted and can't let an argument go.

To give you an example of how to not be shitter shattered, this will be the last time I bother replying to you. See if you can't do the same and go back to talking about games.
Or don't, I'm sure at least one anon will find joy in your continued irrational responses.

>>96484198
No, that's not true. You're stupid, too, btw. Don't try to use "logic" when you're too dumb to comprehend it.

>>96484204
The whole "u mad" is, indeed, a pretty strong play because saying "I'm not mad" sounds like what a mad person would say. But, like, he's just a really comically stupid and annoying poster on 4chan who defends a bad system. How would he make me mad? Falsely accuse me of samefagging?

>>96484220
>NO THATS NAWT TROO, I AM NOT DA PARANOID SCHIZOPHRENIC, ALL YOU PEOPLE ARE!
Kek, no job and no friends btw he didn't deny it.

>>96484232
>Kek, no job and no friends btw he didn't deny it.
I already denied it previously, anon. Learn to read.

>>96484240
no denial again just lying, no jobs no friends and a pedophile too wow

>>96484244
Acting even stupider than you actually are doesn't obscure that you are stupid.

>>96484253
notice that he didn't deny it, he's a jobless friendless pedophile!

It's interesting that you think there are "strong plays" here, but also that accusations can't make possibly someone upset. Also that, despite admitting it's what a mad person would say, you basically said it anyways and just tried to play it off and deflect.
There's no logic or rationality to whatever you're saying, which is a real sign of a total loss of emotional control. Similarly, you won't be able to not reply to this post despite it just being an observation rather than an attack.

>>96484256
He makes up over half of this entire thread's post count so all three of those would be no surprise.

>>96484261
>accusations can't make possibly someone upset.
False accusations from people I actively don't respect don't make me upset. Why would they?

>Similarly, you won't be able to not reply to this post despite it just being an observation rather than an attack.
C'mon, man.

100 replies in under 3 hours? textbook definition of not being upset

You won't be able to stop posting because you're the one who's upset. Anybody who posts after this is actually 10x as upset as they think I am. Maybe even 100x, since I'm closing the tab, going to sleep, and hiding the thread.

>>96484305
At this rate the thread is gonna archive in the next 4 hours

>>96484307
I am not upset, how dare you say that I'm upset, how DARE you criticize my flawless masterpiece of a system that I'm too busy arguing about and slinging insults over to play or run games for!

>>96479643
(You). There. Happy? You got attention.

>>96466207 (OP)
Best is a really narrow question. There are a lot of combat systems that are really good for certain purposes and reasons.

The best I feel for being overall the most interesting would unironically go to LANCER. Since all so much of progression are side-grades and explorations of synergies you can actually play completely different combat strategies each time you play and build up a repertoire of tricks and optimizations to really go wild. It's good both for cleanly put together oneshots and also giving you a shit-ton of legos to play in campaigns. It's only failure is that it's not very nitty-gritty 'realistic', with both paracausal magic running a bunch of weird equipment and then actual honest to god paracausal magic. If I need more mud on my lasers though I'm probably better off actually playing something that's actually from the ground up a wargame, so Battletech has me covered there.

The sleekest system I've played is the new Cyberpunk RED; frankly I might brew it up for any modern games just with how neatly it is between lethality and playablity. Being hurt, hurts; cover and armor is vital (even if a lot of people fetishize dodge-tanking, they generally are the same people that get straight up eviscerated when things go wrong) and vertical progression isn't so high that players never have to fear some asshole with a hipoint.

While I've forgotten a lot of it, the most interesting system I feel I've played is Shinobigami with the way ninja arts work in combat on a funny skill grid; and how keeping secrets about your abilities and misdirecting other ninjas pays off in the way a secret shadow-war should. I seem to recall my very straight-laced and boring state-sponsored ninja having really practical and mundane ninja arts, only to have his hi-ougi or whatever be unironic out-of-fucking-nowhere demon binding super wizardry, just for the mental image of this salaryman setting down his briefcase and summoning all of solomon's demons at once by name.

>>96481976

obvs nta I was replying to. Sorry you've never played a game that's featured non-constant variables. Maybe you should stick to an introductory systems like DnD 5e. Even Pathfinder or CPRED might be to math heavy for you.

>>96482828

I play SR4A which was the last edition to have separate armor values (Impact/Ballistic), so I get it. Plus during a tense moment no one wants the track's negative modifiers weighing them down especially when the GM only applies negative modifiers to skill checks, attacks, and defense. That is not fun for the player.

>see thread went from like 50 replies to over 200 since I was last on
>It's mostly the fucking ACKS sperg, having a melty

Always interesting to see where he pops up.

>>96483363
I don't like how it feels. I mostly play GURPS and consider D&D similarly ridiculous, but the SR damage system always feels like someone deflecting shots with their incredibly toned abdominal muscles

>>96485117
No, no, the track is good. I like death spirals and damage tracks. I don't like how the armor sucks balls and you're mostly tanking shots with your superior health because that feels fucky. But that's like FASA games 101, the armor does nothing

>>96483427
ACKS is to my knowledge a fantasy system
You could play British Commandos stabbing people in GURPS just as well as the Hashashins trying to get Saladin's ass

Dear GURPSbro.
I apologize for the fact you've encountered /osrg/'s village idiot out in the wild. He seems to have mistaken you for me and decided to continue his Jihad against ACKS in your presence.
Please be aware that the 'tard is massively delusional and there is nothing you, I, or anyone else he has accused of secretly being a shill/the author of ACKS/part of the Chud underground secretly attempting to smuggle ACKS into the mainstream can do to convince him otherwise.
He is a freak.
And he will get you banned.

The only winning move is to not play.
Though mocking him is, admittedly, far more fun.

>>96485650
The strangest part is that I wasn't even talking about acks. Dude just inserted himself into the thread for no reason. He couldn't even bother with engage the thread topic and talk about why combat in ACKS is good or not.

>>96485665
Yeah he's like that. I don't know what to tell you, it's a medical issue or some shit.
If you want a laugh go to the archive, type in ACKS and let the retardation wash over you.
>He couldn't even bother with engage the thread topic and talk about why combat in ACKS is good or not.
That's because you have to actually know something about the system to have that discussion and any time he makes an attempt at actual critique he gets laughed out the room.
We're talking full on custard down the front of his baggy clown pants levels of discussion which he demands everyone treat as biting critique that's totes legit and has to be taken seriously or else you're secretly being paid by BigACKS.

>>96484448
Why are you so mad about being wrong?

>>96466304
fpbp

>>96466498
>NOOOOO YOU HAVE TO JUST FULL ROUND ATTACK EVERY TURN STOP HAVING FUN STOP TRYING TO BE COOL THATS MY JOB I PLAY WIZARD SO IM THE ONLY ONE ALLOWED TO HAVE FUN AT THE TABLE FUCK YOU FUCK YOU FUCK YOU GO BACK TO BEING A MEATSHIELD FOR ME!!!!!
uhh anon...?

>>96486910
If you wanted to have fun why didn't you pick a real class?

>>96487506
I did.

>>96487527
lmao NOPE

>>96466207 (OP)
even without grasping the extremes of anime combat, Anima: Beyond fantasy offers plenty of combat options available to everyone
not being hit is key, since you you are attacked first and fail to evade (even of you take no damage), you cannot attack for the rest of the round. bonuses are meaningful and can draw the line between a superficial gash across the arm to having your lung jabbed. with how critical hits works (you get not crit on dice result but rather a relationship of attack-defense gap and damage produced), you can kill enemies without the need of reducing them to 0 or negative HP (that is, with optional rules, one may fight even during negative HP, albeit with a penalty)
combat depth is such that the order in which one attacks is important, since subsequent attack on the same target grants a penalty, which often lead to snowballing.

>>96487506
Why are there classes that only exist as trap options or boring mandatory janitorial duties?

There's some context needed for the OP question I would need to give a good answer. What is good and bad combat to you?
Cyberpunk 2020/Friday Night Firefight is a crunchy combat that feels pretty real and can be a lot of fun if you're the type that likes a lot of nuance and doesn't mind doing the calculations.
If you are looking for a fast and loose combat that feels heroic, WEG d6 Star Wars was excellent for that. Smooth, quick, and with enough variety to keep it fun.
For a true D&D feel, I like ICRPG. There's a lot of similarities to 5E but it runs nicer. It's kind of part and parcel with the system over all so you either like ICRPG or you don't.
Battletech is a great combat system but it's an involved minis game with a RPG stapled on. (Mechwarrior) If your more into the combat and like a little RPG for flavor, it's a great game.

>>96466510
I actually like Shadowrun's initiative pass system too

>>96489878
To haze new players and clueless idiots like you, obviously

>>96490033
>There's some context needed for the OP question I would need to give a good answer. What is good and bad combat to you?
OP's question is specifically and explicitly about your opinion, not his. You fucking retard.

>>96466304
Provided you have players that can follow along with it. I love it, but unfortunately thinking to swap systems for my campaign because to scope has gotten too grand for a tactical skirmish sim.

>>96467668
Draw Steel kinda gets buried in its own meta resources and it's pretty easy to just stumble into a character build that's really boring to play because you have one objectively best Main that you just spam because it works every time.

>>96490047
The initiative system is great (up til 3e)
Didn't they change it later?

>>96491295
And this is healthy for the system how exactly?

>>96492212
It's not supposed to be, in every hobby you just need a lightning rod for all the cunts who absolutely need to feel superior to the others
In D&D and the like it's "system mastery", while in well adjusted groups you can get away with having fun too

>>96492212
cry about it bitch

>>96492419
Curious how people don't want to play with you. It must be everyone else's fault.

>>96483411
>Again, not really, as you can achieve the same effects just by doing big damage.
Yes really, you're just an idiot.

>>96468237
One purpose.

>>96466207 (OP)
Pf1e specifically with Spheres of Power and Spheres of Might.

Weakens spellcasters, makes martials stronger, you can combine talents in fun ways to do interesting things beyond just 'I full attack', and it's entirely possible to either specialize or broaden your abilities and both end up good in their own distinct ways.

>>96493974
personally I prefered DSP content for pathfinder and late 3.5 in general. Spheres feels like a weird mutants and masterminds port- 400 words for people generating characters that eldritch blast things.

>>96494236
Yeah, that's completely fair. DSP isn't bad, but I just love Spheres more. It effectively adds 'modular class features' in a fun way, and I like systems where the mechanics lock together like lego.

>>96485684
>>96485650
>Fishfag trying to cover his tracks
Lmao

>>96466207 (OP)
>What TTRPG system has the best combat in your opinion?
FFG's L5R 5e

>>96492515
lol projecting

>>96494236
>DSP
What's that?
I'm peripherally aware of spheres, but I have no idea what DSP is.

>>96466313
I want to love GURPS, but hit locations are just... so fucking gay. I want to like em - love em, even - but they are so fucking gay bros. They never make a lick a sense and they just have this uncanny ability to feel "wrong" 50% of the time.

Oh and then there's the active defenses. I just can't. Rolling dice is fun and all, but at some point it just turns into a slog. Also 3d6 is ass.

>>96466207 (OP)
there was a local system I used to play a lot where the base combat was:
(your attack+1d6) - (enemy defense+1d6) = damage
It was really quick to play and really swingy, with bonus, special attacks and thigns like it every hit could go from nothing to death

>>96500096
Even casual video gamers understand hit locations

>>96500332
Ok, and what does that have to do with my post?

>>96466207 (OP)
prowlers and paragons, no contest

>>96467635
Lancer is good. Full stop. Any hatred that comes from it is either fueled got simulationist faggots or people who can't see past their antiwoke hateboner.

>>96500566
No, you simply have bad taste.

>>96500096
While I understand not liking gurps saying hit locations
>They never make a lick a sense
is retarded.
How do they not make sense? You think getting hit your your feet will do the same thing as getting hit in your crotch?

>>96500566
It's watered down D&D4e.

>>96500096
Don't use hit locations then? IIRC they're actually an optional rule albeit a commonly used one

>>96500832
Hit locations are "optional" but not really. Armor really doesn't work that well if you aren't using hit locations. You then have to rule in full armor suits and then everything becomes jank.

>>96500824
They don't make sense because you can hit somebody's foot from an overhead swing. They are also really shitty if you have any kind of monster with a 4 legged profile. I understand the idea is that things move around in combat and maybe the lion moved weird and you hit its back leg, but it's still retarded, and even having to think about it just sucks a lot.

>>96500566
I don't want to get into a stupid fight with you, but it's not a good game. I could accuse you of the opposite; defending it to the death because you need to defend your own "team" against your political enemies.
I don't have a dog in this race, but look at the post you responded to:
>Horribly balanced
>Bad Itemization
>Noob traps
>Exploits
>Build's devolve into one-trick ponies
Nobody even mentioned politics, but you came out just saying "it's good," no elaboration, just immediately start blaming your political enemies.
You're actually just being a hypocrite. You're complaining about bullshit political bias, while making it obvious it's because you have a bullshit political bias.
Nobody is going to take you seriously when you're just going out of your way to be a transparent shill.

>>96500832
One of the problems I have with GURPS is that what they call optional rules aren't actually optional 9/10 times. They are optional in the sense that you could technically not use them (in which case literally any rule in any TTRPG is optional), but if you want any sort of coherency within different parts of the system, there are things that really do need to be in place. Hit locations is one of them, damage types is another, and there are a few others that merely look optional, but they really aren't.

Hit locations are not optional in GURPS. The default is to attack center of mass (torso, usually), but you still have hit locations playing in the background.

That's why I use prowlers instead, it already supports this without any special rules for it.
Sever tail : disable poison barb attack.
Break wings : -3d to flight movement rolls and shockwave attack.
Break forelimbs : -2d to claw swipe attack.
Break face : Disable fireball attack for up to three pages.

>>96466207 (OP)
Hackmaster 5e

I like how the first 30% of the thread actually gave recommendation and stuff I hadn't heard of before and then half way through it turned into battle royal of gurps vs acks vs they're both dogshit my taste are superior.

Speaking of combat systems did anyone actually play riddle of steel? When I read it seem kinda cool, but I have no clue how you'd practically play that with four to five people.

>>96500862
>>96500931
Had the same problem with GURPS, from what I remember, you can be practically immune to chest hits with ceramic plates or whatever, but if random hit locations is allowed it's only effective 30% of the time.

I just take whatever system people feel like playing, ignore most of the rules then just arbitrate everything based on fiat but also favor the players so they win and have fune.

>>96500931
>The modular system requires work to be... le modular???
Thank fucking god for it because it filters nitwits like you.

I like savage worlds.

It's kinda shit and the last edition has rules that don't work while the new one has a lot of babymode changes but it works for what I want and that is to have lots of mooks on the table and have them die fast.

>>96501714
Step 1 of playing GURPS: Master the system so you understand which pyramids have which rules to fix the obvious problems with the Core book.
Step 2: Realize this shit can't be fixed and play something else.

>>96501792
Go suck off ACKS again faggot.

>>96501530
The point of body armor is not to be impervious to everything
Just to keep you from being hit anywhere that would instantly kill you

>>96466207 (OP)
There's a spectrum of games where combat is simply a thing that happens vs. games where combat is a minis board game where you move beads around until someone wins.
I understand why some people like the latter but I really prefer the former.
>Monster of the Week
>I want to shoot the monster with my revolver
>A contextually-appropriate move is invoked by the Keeper to decide how this happens
>Am I fighting the monster one on one? Let's roll to Kick Some Ass
>Is the monster holding a victim hostage? Let's roll to Protect Someone or Act Under Pressure depending on your specific goal in shooting the monster
>Is the monster trapped? You instantly deal 3 damage to the monster, no roll required

>>96501714
I'm not sure why you're being so hostile. These parts of the system are not modular, that's the whole point, but maybe you don't know what this word means. The combat, armor, damage type, and and hit location mechanics are all intertwined and heavily balanced around each other. They are not modular, and trying to remove one means you have to do actual design work to patch the holes left by it in the other systems.

This isn't even a problem in in of itself, the only problem is that the introductory paragraphs drill into your head that "all this is modular and optional and just works", when in reality, 80% of the core rules have been designed as a very coherent (and good) whole.

>>96501969
>These parts of the system are not modular
You're complaining that the tires on your truck can't be changed out because last time you tried you forgot to tighten the lug nuts.

>>96500862
>you can hit somebody's foot from an overhead swing
At no point does gurps say that a swing attack is always an overhead swing.
> They are also really shitty if you have any kind of monster with a 4 legged profile
Obviously you can't hit the back legs if you're in the front, the same way you can't hit someone's spine if you're attacking from the front.
This is the sum of your complaints? "In some extreme cases I can describe really improbably hits"?

Seriously your complaints don't make any sense.

>>96501530
>but if random hit locations
Allowing random hit locations is an optional rule as you know, so don't allow them if you think they unbalance things.

>>96500931
>is that what they call optional rules aren't actually optional 9/10 times.
Some rules are indeed "optional". But hit locations is not one of them, the combat works just fine without them, if a bit more boring. GURPS Lite gets plenty of play.
>but you still have hit locations playing in the background.
what does that even mean?

Draw Steel makes me want to chimp out, it's combat is so good.

>>96502056
>GURPS Lite gets plenty of play.
Hasn't Steve Jackson been operating at a loss for like 5 years now?

>>96502063
I've been playing gurps for 5 years and I've never given steve fagson a cent

>>96502063
gurps lite is free bro
https://warehouse23.com/products/gurps-lite-fourth-edition

>>96502082
Can't see a lot of play (or retention) if the company is going out of business.

>>96502063
They have been and their stakeholder reports have always been hilarious to read as they just bemoan the "industry" and how they have too much competition to prosper.

>>96502092
gurps lite is free bro

>>96502119
And?

>>96502131
why are you talking about business and money when referring to a free game? Are you a shareholder?

>>96502142
You realize some of the most profitable games in the world are "free", right?

>>96502147
>"free"
gurps lite doesn't have microtransactions

>>96502025
I was thinking of a swing from a higher elevation. When choosing a random hit location at random there really aren't any rules claiming you can't hit certain parts, as far as I'm aware. You could house rule something, but I feel like if you start getting to a point where you can't hit the back legs of a creature you're going to have to start re-rolling and getting into arguments.

>>96502056
Very few options in the basic set are optional (shield HP rules for instance, which are explicitly described as optional), despite the impression the book gives you in its introduction chapter. And it is indeed like you said, you could technically strip everything and just play by rolling skills, but what I mean by "not modular" is that a lot of individual pieces that make up combat are tied to a lot of other pieces. So yes, it's like you say, you could technically remove hit locations, but then armor as it is written in the BS becomes completely watered down, and then you have to put other rulings in place unless you want your pcs to go around "naked apron" style only wearing kevlar vests because all hits go to torso by default.

I also disagree that combat works "just fine" without the combat rules, unless you are OK with armor doing literally nothing (or house ruling something in place of armor), or doing things like soft limiting skills to 13 max because otherwise nobody is going to be hitting shit.

There's a lot to GURPS combat, and it's a really cool system that I love, and it's not as slow as people think, but modular - when it comes to the BS rules - it is not. It's clearly a very tightly woven set of systems that are meant to work together.

>what does that even mean?
It means you don't roll for / pick hit locations, but you're still attacking the torso by default.

>GURPS Lite gets plenty of play.
Forgive me if I don't believe you.

>>96502162
Neither do some of the most profitable games in the world. The entire point is to get you into the game so you'll move on and start buying things. If SJgames is going out of business, their free model isn't popular or effective, simple as.

>96500594
>96500830
(You)
>>96500925
>Horribly balanced
It's impossible to make a useless character, beyond that balance is al ie.
>Bad Itemization
This isn't D&D, fucko. Stop expecting D&D inventory bullshit.
>Noob traps
>Exploits
Neither of these are real for a few reasons. Nothing outside of the GMS generic items you use at LL0 are actually bad, free retraining of licenses, and zero-cost parts replacement means you can just rebuild your mecha between missions without an issue. and it doesn't matter if somebody is powerful when everybody is powerful.
>Build's devolve into one-trick ponies
That is just a flat out lie.
>Nobody mentioned politics
Somebody always does, so its best to head them off at the pass.
>transparent shill.
Liking a game for what it does isn't being a shill.

>>96502164
>I was thinking of a swing from a higher elevation
There are very autistic rules for elevation, but they're not part of basic because why would they be? That's way too over complicated for a very niche situation.
>random hit locations
you really shouldn't be using random hit locations, I honestly think that's a dogshit rule that should only be used for things like shrapnel and stuff like that, but there are in fact rules saying that if you hit a part you shouldn't be able to reach you simply go to the next part, getting closer to the body.
>or doing things like soft limiting skills
When trying to be realistic there are suggestions about limiting your skills to a specific max, yeah. Regular humans shouldn't walk around with 50 points in one skill.

>>96476809
You mean retards?

>>96502037
You can read the entire post before responding, you know.

>>96502215
Have some self-respect.

>>96502227
>You can read
Yes I can, nice of you to notice :)

>>96502215
>Somebody always does
If everywhere you go stinks like shit, check your shoes.
Alternatively you might just be Indian.

>>96502222
>Regular humans shouldn't walk around with 50 points in one skill.
Even scores of 15 can completely bog combat down if you aren't using deceptive attack.

>you really shouldn't be using random hit locations
Well, random hit locations are my whole problem with the system. The issue is that they kind of make sense in theory, sometimes you want to "strike at whatever presents itself," but it can be super silly sometimes and there's no real good way to "limit" the random hit to just a few locations. And then there's also the whole thing of having to build hit location tables for monsters that are unusual, etc. etc.
>but there are in fact rules saying that if you hit a part you shouldn't be able to reach you simply go to the next part
I don't recall reading about that, do you remember what page it was?

>>96502274
So just... Use deceptive attack.

>>96502274
>And then there's also the whole thing of having to build hit location tables for monsters that are unusual, etc. etc.
There's a book with all the hit locations you'll ever need called template toolkit races
>random hit locations are my whole problem with the system
don't use random hit locations. You can use hit locations without allowing people to roll for hit locations randomly.
>I don't recall reading about that, do you remember what page it was?
I'm not sure but it's an obvious enough solution. I think it was in the martial arts book.

>>96502290
We're talking about things being modular, remember? I don't consider deceptive strike an optional rule.

>>96501846
Jesus how dreadful

>>96501981
No, I'm communicating exactly what I said in my post and nothing else. Engage with the discussion in good faith or stop replying.

>>96502327
The rules are optional so you can tailor the game to your liking. If something isn't working exactly the way you want it to when you remove a rule: Don't remove it.
Did you expect the game to play the exact same no matter what rules you use? Dumbass.

>>96502359
No, you just don't know how to use the rules and then BAW when it fails.

>>96502164
Hero System has an activation roll for armor if you don't want to use hit locations. Roll under the target number on 3d6 to see if armor was hit or not.
It could be used in GURPS with no changes, and I'd be surprised if GURPS didn't already copy it somewhere.

>>96502377
Last warning.

>>96502403
Nah.

>>96502403
Kek knew you'd run away pussy.

>>96500086
dreamscarred press, they ported psionics, akasha/incarnum and tome of battle to pathfinder

>>96502057
you better watch your mouth kang

After Strike! and Break! are we going to get Bust! How many rules lite 4e testicular stompers does one genre really need Edna?

>96502230
>96502272
(You)

>>96502474
Yep, you lose and you ran away.

>>96503044
Oh, right.
That.
How are those compared to the originals?
ToB was fine in 3.5e, but Incarnum was pretty meh in actual play IIRC, despite being such a cool fucking concept holy shit I love Incarnum.

>>96503079
personally I'm waiting for Booba! The tactical waifu fighting RPG

>>96483823
The most successful OSR system is early D&D, kid. It's the game people think of when talking about OSR.

>>96466207 (OP)
prowlers and paragons, no contest

>>96466207 (OP)
Not gonna lie I like the tension and simplicity of combat in mothership

If it’s a more complicated melee mythras but I tire on the system after all these years
Still does the job really fucking well, and at some point I need to work up the motivation to make a simultaneous action derivative of it, so it can run faster

Other than that I miss 4e

>>96504633
Incarnum became much nicer as Akasha. The lore has shifted to be much more Egyptian. Psionics its pretty much a straight port with some bug fixes, though it has several new classes later in the product line. Tome of Battle, now Path of War, is still rather strong. I liked the ghost gauntlet class.