Thread 96474844

Welcome to the Old School Renaissance General, the thread dedicated to TSR-era D&D, derived systems, and compatible content.

Broadly, OSR games encourage a tonal and mechanical fidelity to Dungeons & Dragons as played in the game's first decade — less emphasis on linear adventures and overarching meta-plots and a greater emphasis on player agency.

If you are new to the OSR, welcome! Ask us whatever you're curious about: we'll be happy to help you get started.

>Troves, Resources, Blogs, etc:
http://pastebin.com/9fzM6128

>Need a starter dungeon? Here's a curated collection:
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/94994969/#95006768

>Previous thread:
>>96417397

>Thread Question:
Do you enjoy music while gaming? If so, what kind?

>What's an OSR?
>Don't know how to get started?
>The friendly n00b guide can be found here: https://pastebin.com/EVvt6P0B until further notice.

Want to contribute to the thread but don't know where to start? Use this table.
>1. Make a spell
>2. Make a monster
>3. Make a dungeon special
>4. Make a wilderness location
>5. Make an urban set piece
>6. Make a magic item
>7. Make a class, race, or race-as-class
>8. Make a 4-10 room lair.
>9. Make a trap
>10. Roll 2D10 and combine

An Anon has shared an awesome campaign report. Check it out!

ttps://mega.nz/file/id51UZqa#9pZoBcVtOF3vssbZ4kON2WN9XAbGvSi-TStiB9nKTxY

>>96474953
Holy shit fan art.
Glad you guys liked it in the last thread.
If anyone's got any questions or a desire to talk shit, let me know. I'll be in and out as usual.

Hello /osrg/. I am working on updating my player's newbie guide with feedback. I look forward to posting it once ready!

>>96475158
Good to hear! I was wondering.

>>96474844 (OP)
why aren't those adventurers wearing armor?

>>96474844 (OP)
'At's a nice-a OP-a-image.

>>96475989
They crave the faster movement speed.

>>96476100
And the shorter duration of surprise!

looking for middle sized dungeons recs for me to run using Dragonslayer please.

>>96477181
Don't feed the troll.

Talk about your dungeons /osrg/!

So I've got OSE. Is OSE like training wheels before I move onto something like AD&D2e?

>>96477726
ose is like b/x or ad&d, depending if youre using advanced ose or just the classic stuff.

>>96477726
OSE is great, the layout and editing are top notch, but most anons here agree it doesn't explain the rules all that well so it's still recommended to read the B/X books.

Once you start running your games you'll realize there are no clear rules in B/X for some situations that may arise in your table (ie. price of identifying magic items) and then you have to read the AD&D Dungeon Master Guide. There you'll find answers to many of your questions.

So no need to "level up" into full AD&D, if you just want the extra spells and split race/class then Advanced OSE is just perfect.

Starting up a solo campaign to get back into the groove of DMing and remembering procedures, generating NPCs and whatnot on the fly. This shit is fun. Gonna be getting a proper group campaign rolling in the near future with friends and looking forward to it.

>>96477759
>ose is like b/x or ad&d, depending if youre using advanced ose or just the classic stuff.
That's a common misconception.

OSE-Classic is not "like" B/X, it is pretty much exactly B/X, minus the examples of play. Great reference manual, not very suitable to learn the game.

OSE-Advanced is not like AD&D. It is still B/X but with extra charbuild options, monsters, and treasures that are vaguely inspired by AD&D but heavily modified. And, more importantly, it omits practically everything from the DMG, which is what really defines AD&D.

If you want to play OSE-Advanced it's fine (mostly), but don't delude yourself that you're playing AD&D.

(Also, you're replying to bait.)

>>96477726
Obvious False Flag bait is obvious.

>>96477874
Good reply but it bears clarifying that while B/X can be a good way to take baby steps toward AD&D, that's not the case with AD&D 2e, because while the core engine of OD&D, AD&D, and B/X is the same, AD&D 2e messes with the most important core mechanics. So if someone wanted to play AD&D 2e, B/X would not be a good introduction to it --- if anything, it would be the opposite. (Which is not a bad thing.)

>>96474980
Hey, just wanted to say, I love the Mouch Strangler
>Giant mystical toad people who can delve into the arcane and are clearly built around calling on ancestral wisdom to empower themselves or going shaman-ish
>Fighter class is just 'I'm a giant fucking frog-monster that's going to throw hands and when they stick to your throat you're going to be in some real shit' to the point where they can walk out on a battlefield and go 'I'm going to twist every last one of your heads off if you don't put your weapons down' and that might work.
11/10

>>96474953
>>96474980
Finished the journal yesterday. As I said in the previous thread, got sold hard on using oracles for adding detail or expanding lore and, after finishing it, I'm convinced ACKS is mandatory for domain/high level play.

I'm completely jealous and will attempt to make a journal like yours of my next campaign. Thank you so much for the inspiration!

>>96477726
>Is OSE like training wheels before I move onto something like AD&D2e?
yes it is, like all variations of the "Basic" line and its derivatives.
I would recommend 1e over 2e though for your eventual graduation into advanced. It is more complicated but provides the best tools to play through the progression of the oldschool D&D game: Dungeons into Wilderness & Lairs into Strongholds and Domains

t. 1e DM of many years.

>>96478522
Glad to hear it. Post it here when you get the chance, I'd love to read it.

Eye of the Tiger man.

>>96478536
>It is more complicated
Not really, Gygax doesn't give you seven options for every subsystem in the game, half of which are broken or awful

I’m trying to wrap my head around OD&D’s ‘ridiculous’ xp system, so I rewrote the example in my own words, but including an additional party member and henchman. Am I understanding this correctly?

A level 8 fighter accompanies his 5th level cleric comrade with a 5th level henchman. Together they slay a troll (7HD) on the 5th level of the dungeon, in it’s den they find a hidden trove of 7,000 gp. Let us assume these fellows are on good terms and divvy the treasure into equal shares (2,333 gp each).

7,700 xp is the total xp gained, but split evenly between the fighter, cleric, and henchman, which amounts to 2,333 xp each. Henchmen recieve 50% xp however, and thus he only gains 1,166 xp. The fighter being 8th level is overpowered for this challenge and thus recieves 5/8’s the reward, 1,458 xp.
(5 / 8 = 0.625 x 2,333)
The cleric being in an area appropriate to his own skill recieves the full reward of 2,333 xp.

>>96482160
in odnd monster xp is not split, everyone gets full monster xp. greyhawk adds splitting monster xp

>>96482160
>The fighter being 8th level is overpowered for this challenge and thus recieves 5/8’s the reward,
That's already addressed by the higher XP requirements to level up to the 9th

>>96482772
In LBB you're supposed to prorate the amount of XP earned depending on the PC's level relative to the dungeon level, if the dungeon level is lower. So yes the 8th level fighter is earning 5/8ths the experience amount because he this XP was earned on the 5th dungeon level. Anon wants to understand the XP system as written.

>>96482772
>That's already addressed by the higher XP requirements to level up to the 9th
Wrong.

Both in OD&D and AD&D, when a character or party faces challenges that are too weak, Gary (play be upon him) instructs you to reduce the XP awarded proportionally to the "power ratio". At least in the DMG, that is required reading, this applies to XP from defeating monsters, overcoming tricks and traps, and XP from treasure as well.

This is NOT addressed by the higher XP requirements to level up because it's a rule designed to punish what today we would call farming.

Picrel is from DMG page 84.

>>96482160
I don't play OD&D but AD&D, but the system is very similar, see
>>96483386
Personally, I don't do exact calculations by the book: I eyeball the challenge (the level of the dungeon is perfectly adequate, for wilderness adventures I use my own judgement), and prorate accordingly. The reason is that the spirit of the rules is perfectly reasonable, but the application cannot be overly algorithmic because there's too many factors to consider. For example, when it comes to the DMG rule one special/exceptional ability = 1HD is a bit too low for monsters with many HD.

>>96483386
>because it's a rule designed to punish what today we would call farming.
I get the logic but I don't think I've ever seen players actually do this in any edition of the game. Granted I wasn't playing in the 70s so maybe the culture is different now.

>>96483475
If you're playing an open table adversarial campaign, you also have the potential issue of high level characters looting areas that are meant for low level characters to keep them from advancing, depending on how dickish your players are.

Or if you're playing with pussies, eventually you'll want to punish them for not climbing down the fucking stairs. Not an unlikely scenario nowadays based on session reports I've read here and elsewhere.

Granted, all edge cases that ideally won't come up often if at all. But it's a good rule to have if in case anything like that should ever happen at your table.

>>96483635
That's true, I'm playing an LBB clone with the 100 XP per HD rule, but I'm not doing multiple adversarial player groups or anything like that. Also apparently I've been fucking up by dividing monster XP by the number of PCs, but I think I'm going to keep doing that as a compromise. 100 XP per HD for EACH PC is nuts.

Post a table when they least expect it

>>96485266
Nice.

However, I'll never understand the logic behind the "Referee's Choice" result. I don't need to roll a specific number to choose something.

>>96485336
The logic is "I ran out of ideas, and I still need to fill another slot"

>>96485341
Sorry for looking a gift horse in the mouth, but I do find it humorous that you were able to come up with 98 good ideas but not 100.

So it's only fair that you make fun of me for my retarded idea. How much will players hate me? Notice that this is just a sub-level within a dungeon, and it's NOT an obligated passage between two levels, so frustrated players can just avoid it. I'll give maps to (part of) it as treasure.

This is a Minotaur lair, so it's meant for a mid-level party. Smart players actually have lots of means to navigate this, such as Detect Magic, Locate Object (2nd level MU / 3rd level Cleric) and Augury (2nd level Cleric), and Dwarf / Gnome / Stout abilities to detect sloping passages, depth underground, and direction underground.

Treasure should probably be generous here.

>>96485570
Oh I'm not the guy who made the thing being discussed above, I'm just saying I've made tables myself and encountered the whole "oh no, my creative juices have petered out and I still have one or two slots to fill" problem before. I know it well!

>>96485584
For many years, when I handwashed the dishes, I would wash everything except for one fork, spoon, or knife that I would leave lying in the sink. I never even realised I was doing it. Drove my gf insane.

>>96474953
>Campaign almost included a spacejam against a bunch of undead lizard priests and missed it by inches
That's some real commitment to letting the dice take you where the dice are going to take you. I would've fudged it and I'm not ashamed to say that.

Anybody print out the OD&D supplements for home use? I found pdfs of the first printing so I already made bootleg LBBs using scans of the first printing, I want to do Greyhawk next but I've checked multiple sites and the only scan I can find has a weird crop where they cut off almost all of the margins. I'm afraid it'll cut into the text when I go to trim the booklet, especially since Greyhawk has a lot more pages than the LBBs. Plus can you even staple-bind a booklet that big?

I know the WOTC reprints (ew) are higher quality, but I don't know if they changed anything aside from fucking up the covers. If I can't find a high-quality scan then maybe I'll just use the original cover and the WOTC reprint for the interior.

>>96478536
>recommending 1e over 2e
I understand that by a strict definition 2E is off topic, it is still a significantly better game than 1e in almost every way. The only complaints about it that are worth a damn is change in how XP being handed out refocuses it onto combat and story involvement instead of treasure-finding (very valid) and the change in times/movement for dungeon procedure (only marginally valid). Everything else is sour grapes from people who fetishize retro D&D instead of actually play it.
>>96477726
OSE is just BX with ascending AC as the assumption (which is no big deal) and picking a side on some rules vagaries from the BX books. It is a better game than anything the Advanced line could ever hope to be.

>>96487004
>>96487004
The worst thing about 2E is that the books are full of really shitty advice. It set the precedent for new-style D&D. I don't care because I know how to run a game, but think of the poor noobs.

>>96485584
yeah, no matter what die you pick, you'll always run out of ideas right before ending. Except a d4, with a d4 options you think so many that you can't pick the best ones.

>>96487004
I think /rg/ would be a far better place if whining about how people who don't agree with you are the nogaems resulted in an autoban

A quick question with no ill intent, I don't know shit about OD&D.
Is the B/X distinction about levels or are there extra rules that can be ignored if you're playing with new people?

>>96487004
>I understand that by a strict definition 2E is off topic
That is patently false.
>the thread dedicated to TSR-era D&D, derived systems, and compatible content.
It's very much OSR, and any who argue otherwise are simply trolls.

Hell, the very foundation of the OSR was simply just "Not 3rd Edition D&D", all the way back in the early 2000's, just after 3rd edition came out. The whole point and purpose was just to keep early editions alive in the wake or WotC D&D.

>>96488150
>Is the B/X distinction about levels or are there extra rules that can be ignored if you're playing with new people?
both i believe

>>96488174
Yet the earliest citation for the term "OSR" that we have shits on 2e

>>96488174
By >>>STRICT DEFINITION<<< the OSR ends with Dragonlance.

>>96488359
Frankly anyone who looks at Raistlin and goes 'Yes, a perfectly mundane OSR protagonist who starts with nothing interesting about him and earns his power through play' needs to have their head twisted off like a snapplecap before they can harm anyone else.
Motherfucker has the Sharingan.

>>96488459
yeah, but a lot of games go for that type of character and are not OSR

>>96488174
Are you able to contribute ANYTHING to the thread that isn't your usual meta bait bullshit? Write a session report instead. Because you are playing, right?

>>96488496
The popularity of the Dragonlance novels was such a massive seachange at TSR that nothing that comes later isn't affected by it's narrative structure, module design, and characters.

Session 48 of my weekly BFRPG campaign. The players divided their earnings from the "dragon" that they had recently slain, (Finding out that it was actually a drake, rather than a true dragon.) They also piled their earnings together to purchase a new building in the town where they're currently staying, so now they own two bases of operation about a week apart from one another, where they send a weekly caravan of supplies between the two.
One player has decided to set his character aside to do some work in his downtime as a blacksmith. They wrapped up some interactions with NPCs and smaller objectives that they had been trying to finish for a while.

Afterwards they went to a new village that they'd never been to, (It's three days out from their new base.) They had went there just to see what the town had to offer, however they discovered that this is the place they'd heard rumors of a giant chasm opening up, and nobody that had explored it had come back alive. So they went down in it and just poked their head in a few rooms.

The best part was when they opened a door to a closet with a strange iron keg. They didn't realize it was highly pressurized and enchanted to have a portal in the base of it that led to the bottom of a river of fresh water... So they kept fucking around with it and it exploded almost causing a complete party wipe. Everyone survived, but many had to be dragged back to town and stitched up, and one of the mages lost points of intelligence from a major head injury.

Nice classic D&D moment.

>>96488540
I'm just saying that defining OSR by its game play brings the retarded discussion about what is OSR because a game could comply with most of them while being based on WHFRPG or CoC.
I agree Dragonlance embodies most of the things I don't want and it worked like a cancer in TSR, I'm not defending it or anything. I'm just trying to preventively avoid a repeat of the same retarded debate.

>>96488579
>defining OSR by its game play brings the retarded discussion about what is OSR because a game could comply with most of them while being based on WHFRPG or CoC.
NTA. That's bullshit for the specific examples you give, but let's assume for the sake of discussion that it turns out that there's a game out there that complies with the OSR style and nobody realised yet. It would be a cool discovery, not an issue.

>>96488612
Could you bring up the particular things that you find no other system replicates but in a way that will sound possitive and won't trigger the spergs?
If not that's totally cool, I really want to avoid re-runs if possible.

>>96477181
no one ever answered my question. I swear it's in good faith p_p

what do you think should go in here?

>>96488259
The earliest for "renaissance."
There's examples of posts discussing the "old school revival" that predate your flimsy ass attempt to use a single post from some loser as justification for your shitposting.

>>96488738
Whatever's dug the tunnel to the west. Giant ants perhaps.

>>96488764
Why are you here? Have you ever contributed anything to the thread that wasn't meta bait?

>>96488696
Outside of XP, why do you think this doesn't apply to WHFRPG or Cairn? (both have XP ideas that I know most people here would dislike). I'm not saying anyone should play them or anything, I'm using them as examples for clarification.

>>96488738
my dick

>>96488811
You really shouldn't take that too seriously. It's full of really, really bad "advice" like "D&D tests the player, not the character" (the formal chant of the metagaming no-fun rulesplayer) and the incredible cope on why "slow exploration" is supposed to be a good thing.
Never take anything, and I mean anything, you read in these threads as biblical text, dogma, or doctrine.

>>96488854
If you hate the OSR style of play so much why are (You) in these threads?

>>96488877
I love OSR style play. That's kind of why I really hate the idea that you think you can trick people into adopting your lame, personal version of it just by appealing to everything except actual good design and logic.
It's kind of pathetic all the various "tricks" you want to employ, since most of them are just fallacies.

>>96488767
There's something in the central bottom chamber that the ants have uncovered that's causing trouble for someone that might hire the pcs to deal with it? What could it be?

Ants seem really cool tho and im sticking with them
Captchq just called me gay RIP

>>96488811
>Outside of the lack of checkmate, why is tennis not a board game?

>>96488738
Everyone that says Candlej

>>96488738
Entirely filled with horny, horny harpies.
They're willing to buy male prisoners and sell Rumours, scouting services and Salon article tier advice on what men really want, complete with '37 ways to cast disintegrate on his penis without a single caster level!'
Any actually practical or actionable advice given to younger harpies will immediately be overriden by the Queen Harpy who asserts her dominance through having 2d3 dire lions with her at all times.

>>96488877
We've well established this anon. He's here because he's a shithead.

>>96488935
Mind-controlling spores from fungi that the ants farm and that they themselves are immune to. The character feels a compulsion to climb the tallest tree or building, strip naked, and take root there as fungi sprout from his head, killing him.

>>96488964
Ad hominem mixed with mild and false ad populum. You're really just a sack of fallacies.

>>96488971
Ad hominem mixed with mild and false ad populum. You're really just a sack of fallacies.

>>96489069
>You're really just a sack of fallacies.
Funny, because I've always thought of you as a sack of phalluses.

>>96489127
>gets called out for being a guy who's built his entire existence on fallacies
>with no other options remaining to him, doubles down with more fallacies
Well, at least you're smart enough to know when you're beaten, even if your ego is too big for you to ever admit it.

>>96489163
That makes you the first guy to beat off an entire sack of phalluses.

Why do you guys even bother with him? This place used to be legendary now you let one shitter gum up every thread

>>96489292
Frankly, because he inserts himself forcefully into any conversation and bullying him until he stops that shit is the only way he's ever going to stop short of someone tracking him down IRL and breaking his keyboard.

>>96488579
What you're doing is mudding the waters by looking at the wrong things. There is a strict definition which has strict cutoff dates. So much of the noob guide is the retarded ramblings of an actual factual pedophile, but the publication dates he cites in it are clean, clear, correct, and come from over a decade of self-policing and debate.

>>96489292
You throwing tantrum at anyone who opposes your personal views and treating them all like one person is what's driven most people away from this thread, leaving it to just a handful of people who can barely keep it afloat. The last thread took over a week to hit the bump limit, and this one, minus the tantrums, will likely also somewhere in that range.
You do it because, unfortunately, most people are more willing to just leave rather than put up with your autism.

I always find it interesting how the subhuman always claims people are 'forcing a personal idea' of what OSR is.
But never defined what that personal idea of it is or what the alternative is. He just says it then shits the thread up further on that basis.

>>96489349
What I found interesting is how, even if no one was provoking you, you spent most of the last thread screaming and raging, for dozens of deleted posts, in hopes someone would bite at your bait.
And now, when someone does respond, you're ecstatic. Look how happy you are right now, you little shit.
I guess that means it's really just better for everyone to ignore you and to avoid using the thread when you're around, but the problem is that this thread becomes just nothing but a dead husk of its former self, with people making fun of it and you everywhere else on this board.

>>96489399
>Let me pretend I'm trying to do what's best for the thread with my inane faggotry
No. I can't stop you being a baiting little cunt, but I can and will point out that you're a perfidious cocksucker who isn't half as clever as he thinks he is and is fully intent on shitting up the thread then claiming it was everyone else.
We can see you, fucker, standing there next to the smouldering rubble, jerry can in one hand and flare gun in the other, no amount of going 'UwU, Who, me?' is going to make people believe you didn't do it.

If you do care about these threads (Which you don't) and want them to improve (Which, again, you don't) then here's the one simple thing you can do to instantly improve them in a direct, measurable manner;
Fuck off retard.

>>96475158
>>96475368
Took longer than hoped because I've been very distracted lately, but I updated it. Adjusted the disclaimer to be less slanderous (sorry again about that) and generally touched it up.
V1.1 is here!
https://anonymfile.com/9BxoV/another-osrg-osr-primer-v11.pdf

>>96489318
WHO? ME?

>>96489419
Seems like I hit you where it hurts.
You really can't control yourself, and the last thread is all the evidence we need of that.

Even you, the most shameless shit alive, would have to feel some shame looking at all your deleted posts.

>>96489433
Cheers for the Dolphin Porn.

>>96489467
>Any amount of irritation I get out of another person is a victory for me
Incredible to hear you finally admit it.

>>96489475
You got emotional over the fact that I pointed out you will shitpost and rage even when there's no one to shitpost and rage over.
Even if you want to hide it, your ego can't let you.

>>96489433
Took a quick look and it's looking good, Anon. I'll read it more carefully tomorrow.

May I suggest that you also create a permanent pastebin where you link the current version? That would help with linking to your guide, both in the general thread and in the "original" n00b guide.

I've also been thinking that perhaps we could rename them to something matching. Perhaps something like:
>/osrg/ n00b DM's Guide
>/osrg/ n00b Player's Handbook
or
>OSR n00b DM's Guide
>OSR n00b Player's Handbook
I'm open to suggestions.

>>96489608
That's a really good idea. I'll set up a pastebin... after I set up a pastebin account so I can update it.
And let's rename them "/osrg/ n00b DM's Guide" and "/osrg/ n00b Player' Handbook", yeah.

>>96489608
Created it. Thanks so much for your help!
https://pastebin.com/XALkXkV0

>>96489433
>>96489608
>I believe the way we play here in /osrg/ is not the only right way to play,
But the way described in the n00b guide is not the only way how people here play. There's been several people even just in the last thread who've described themselves playing in a way different or even contrary than what the hater n00b guide tries to say is the way people here play or is the "right way to OSR".
If you're going to try and label something as /osrg/, it probably should actually reflect the /osrg/, and not just the handful of people with weird agendas who want to try and use documents to push their personal propaganda. Or better yet, just don't say it represents /osrg/.
It's so... bizarre. I understand the desire to try and have fixed rules and a static identity, and one you personally approve of and wish to enforce upon others, but that's not what the OSR is or ever was, and it's also not what the /osrg/ is, was, or ever can be.
I'm at least happy you've got some sanity, and partially express that your /osrg/ primer is a personal one with personal ideas, but its intermixed with the weird propaganda that seems to be in imitation of, or rather infected by, that noob guide.
I encourage you to give advice, and to argue why you like your style, but do so from the stance of "This is how I like to play, and I respect that the OSR is going to have a lot of differing opinions on every aspect, just like people have done since the earliest days of RPGs."

>>96489665
Thank you for sharing your guide! Keep up the great work, I'm glad we're getting something that's not only written for players, but also with a different style and with a complementary point of view.

I've updated and renamed my own file, linked to yours, and also added a link to your pastebin from my own pastebin to make it easier for people to jump from one to the other.

The current version of the DM's guide is 2.20, and it also contains some additions and clarifications that some Anons voted to include in the last few threads.

>>96489930
Very happy to help! I am hopeful that these two guides help newbies get oriented.

>>96489767
>But the way described in the n00b guide is not the only way how people here play.
You (singular you) have been asked dozens of times to post a play report. You never replied. In fact, you've never contributed anything to this general that wasn't meta. The "best" you've ever done is saying "Dark Sun is a great setting", without elaborating on why, and then agreeing with yourself back and forth three or four times with "yes it's the best setting".

It's been obvious for a long time that you don't actually play, you just read splatbooks.

Prove us wrong. Tell us about your ongoing campaign in detail.

>There's been several people even just in the last thread
Would be more believable if you (singular you) didn't have such a distinctive and repetitive style. Always the same arguments and rebuttals that are just variations on "no you". Such as when you accuse everybody else on /osrg/ of being the same person.

Aztecks Anon? Same Anon.
N00b guide Anon? Same Anon.
Player's N00b guide Anon? Same Anon.
How to design/jelq a dungeon Anon? Same Anon.
Death Tax Anon? Same Anon.
I guess he's also Gucci Fuliginous Cloak as well!

So many identities. Such a talented guy this ONE ANON, he's able to write hundreds of pages using completely different styles, tones, humour, spelling conventions, text editing software, and even with conflicting points of view!

Meanwhile, pages contributed by you: ZERO.
Videos contributed by you: ZERO.
Play reports posted: ZERO.
Questions answered: ZERO.
Maps shared: ZERO.
New monsters designed: ZERO.

You're a completely worthless excuse of a human being.

>>96489767
>>96490158
Oh and I forgot helpful MS paint rainbow infographics Anon. And the Anon who also posts relevant AD&D passages, but in reverse colour with selection highlights and who's a bit of a dick sometimes.

All the game guy, huh? Well, he's quite prolific. He alone has contributed more to this general than you (plural you of course!) ever have. Again, what does it say about you?

I don't know if this is the best time to ask or if you're always fighting like this and it's just natural. I was reading The Painted Wasteland and I really like it, it's made for OSE. Is it a good way to get into B/X? I played once and I'd have to re-read and study the rules a bit, I'd also have to explain everything to my players but I'm sure I could run a couple one shots and see if it becomes a short campaign.
Should I run some better known begginer one shots to get my footing or whatever grabs my fancy is as good as anything else?

I feel that a lot of people publish things for OSE because it's free and they don't care about the system, but I don't know enough to judge which ones are super B/X and work great there and which ones are whatever.

>>96490194
B2 Keep on the Borderlands is still unbested as an introduction to B/X, for both players and DMs.

>>96490289
yeah, but if I wanted to run that I would had at this point. I'm sure it's great, but I'm not gonna run something I don't care about like it's a HS book report

>>96490181
That you don't know who I am and what I've contributed?
That you don't know who or even what you're addressing, all in your efforts to try and make a singular enemy out of anyone who disagrees with you?
I understand you're incredibly upset, but you've shown that you're not angry at me, or even talking to me. You're screaming at your phantom, the same phantom you spent all of last thread screaming at, and I have no idea why you're tagging my post with your rants like I'm supposed to defend him, your imaginary enemy consisting of everyone who doesn't care about your tantrums.
You will scream at your phantom even when there's no posts for you to reply to. I'm just the current person you're tagging, so I have no idea why you think I or anyone is supposed to respond to you. I'm replying to you right now so you can understand why no one is bothering to respond to you when you're clearly not talking to them.

>>96490406
You should be committed to a psych ward. You believe everyone you argue with is one person, but meanwhile you are yourself are unwilling to accept your own existence, clearly, as you do not acknowledge that you are being spoken to even when you can acknowledge you are being tagged in a post directed at, well certainly someone! I think I might have seen the word "you" once or twice, maybe that's you >>96490406 just tagging again to try and be helpful, this is (You) who is being spoken to!

If you've contributed anything of even an iota of worth please let us know.

Well, I tried. Didn't really expect to get through to him though.
But, it's not like it really makes a difference, because he already made it clear he'll scream at his phantom whether or not there's any posts for him to tag.

>>96488259
Which one is that? You don't mean Trent's post of 11 Aug 2004 do you? I repeatedly see that cited as the oldest but you can't mean that one because it doesn't say anything about 2e.
Besides, the use of old school revival reference I know predates that by at least 99.5% of a year.

>>96490194
I just took a brief look at the pdf, and while it's interesting and I suspect worth playing at some point, I'm not sure it makes a good introduction for B/X or even OSE. OSR D&Ds are generally made for that feudal, medieval campaign world and the Painted Wasteland very much appears to lean hard into the gonzo aesthetic. I know you scoffed at B2 and that's fine, I'm not telling you to play it, but I will tell you Keep on the Borderlands gives a good example of what the early years of D&D were really made for and since you DID ask if you should run some better known beginner one shots, getting "install B2" as a response isn't unreasonable.

>>96490639
>I know you scoffed at B2
I didn't mean to sound like I'm above it or anything, it just doesn't get me exited and I've seen it recommended for years and years. I'm sure it's not just a meme response but it has become a bit of background noise.

Has anyone read the KotB novel?
It's such a weird idea.

>>96490739
no, whats werid about ti?

>>96490787
Who wants to read a novelization of an adventure?
The people who've played it will already know the basic beats of the story, and the people who haven't but are interested in the adventure likely won't want anything to be spoiled for them.

Is the target audience people who wish they could play but can't?

>>96483688
>100 XP per HD for EACH PC is nuts.
Yes, it's completely insane. And it also wasn't rules as intended (although I don't in any way argue that it is in fact RAW). Mornard and Kask, at least, have talked about how the troll was just a terribly flubbed example since its regeneration massively bumps its challenge and thus XP value.

>>96485570
NAYRT but this idea isn't retarded, it's good. Gygax would have approved, and te whole thing is entirely in the spirit of the OD&D example dungeon's demonstration of trap types.

>>96486570
>Anybody print out the OD&D supplements for home use?
Not personally, I bought a few copies of the Lulu print that was floating around.

>I know the WOTC reprints (ew) are higher quality, but I don't know if they changed anything aside from fucking up the covers.
The WotC anniversary LBBs are based on the fifth printing IIRC, the "final form" of the LBB text with some errata worked in and the Tolkien references purged. The Greyhawk text I think, but won't swear, doesn't have distinct variations so printing that should be fine, probably.

On that note I think the anniversary editions might also have had new interior art. Unsure about that, I wasn't going to pay what they wanted for that box set even though it was pretty nice.

>>96477726
nice bait but honestly I feel like OSE is all you need. I'm running ACKS and it just feels like a lot of extra bloat honestly.

>>96488174
Incorrect, 2E is by no means OSR and does not belong in this general.

>>96488579
First edition WFRPG is unironically more of an OSR game than 2e. Kinda went off the rails later, but many of the procedures of 1e chargen and so on make more sense for a mudcore dungeoncrawler than for any kind of narrative game.

>>96488924
>I love OSR style play.
Clearly you don't, since you say in >>96488854 that OSR gamepley is for metagaming no-fun rulesplayers. I mean, it sucks for you that you fundamentally misunderstood what OSR is, but there's a whole board for you to post about your new school storygame preferences.

My players won't stop whining about each other, arguing when things go bad for them, and just generally being catty about each other. I'm starting to dread each game day that comes up because I know it's gonna involve some awkward bullshit where I have to remind them that we're all adults and that it's better for the game if they all find some way to talk and work out their problems like adults.

>>96490957
>First edition WFRPG is unironically more of an OSR game than 2e
It's not surprising either: 2e was created with the intent to undo the style of play put forward by Gygax in a way that no other RPG ever was, for the most part other RPGs just ignored Gygax or didn't really understand how D&D was played, particularly when created by designers with no wargaming club background.

I've heard some Anons say that the OSR was born in opposition to 2e, but it's the other way around really: It's 2e that was born in opposition to how old school D&D was intended to be played by Gygax and Arneson.

>>96489433
This is a super minor point, and I think your primer is a great addition to the thread, but I counted once and the Wilderlands maps have something in less than 1/6th of hexes.

>>96491016
>the Wilderlands maps have something in less than 1/6th of hexes.
NTA. Why is that relevant?

>>96491007
Is the issue in or out of game?
Sometimes it's fun to play an asshole and bitch and moan, but it can be corrected by making it clear that it's draining you. Or maybe they just hate each other irl and it's a bad group.

In case you needed someone to tell you, you can't fix in game issues that exist out of the game.

>>96490406
>I'm just the current person you're tagging
lmaoooooooooooo

>>96490406
So you've contributed nothing except whinging about OSR, to the surprise of exactly nobody.

>>96491010
Where do these lies come from?
2e is nearly identical to 1e. It's not some sort of deliberate anti-1e. I mean, hell, it even as gold as XP as an optional rule, if you really believe that's so fundamentally important and not just one of the few recognizable differences you chose to dramatically inflate in importance.
Also, the OSR began in 2002-2003, after 3rd Edition's 2000 release and as a response to its snowballing popularity and the fear that WotC, who held all D&D rights, would never reprint older editions, including 2e, out of fear of creating competition for 3rd edition.

>>96490194
I'm going to have to agree with Anon: I can see why you're into this book and want to run it, but specifically as for the question " Is it a good way to get into B/X?", honestly, probably not. This is pretty out there in terms of content and seems to use several nonstandard procedures which are no doubt well adapted to the setting, but at odds with how things would normally work. (For example, the "hexcrawl" in the book appears to be based on a type of mechanic called a hex flower which is normally used to generate random weather and the like. Given the concept of the setting I see why they did this, but it's very much distinct from standard hexcrawling procedure and liable to trip you up if you try to combine it with those rules in the actual Expert rulebook.)

On a largely unrelated note, I'm honestly not sure there's enough content in this book to enable the characters to level up at the pace they would need to explore the map functionally. I've only had a comparatively cursory look over the PDF, of course, so this is only a hunch which may be way off the mark, but if not, you would need to use this book as part of a larger setting or do a lot of work yourself to run it, which may be tough if you have little familiarity with the system.

I might suggest trying B4 The Lost City as a way to dip your feet into the basics of B/X first, if that's what you want to do; I think that this could be adapted as a location in the Painted Wastelands without too much difficulty, what with the masked cultists and so on.

>>96490884
It's also a thoroughly baffling choice of adventure to write a novel about. Few modules have as little of a story as B2.

>>96491047
It's kind of both, but mostly out of game. And it's stuff that I can kind of mitigate as DM, but I can't be expected to play referee AND adult daycare attendant...
>One player is overly nice to a degree that it's pissing everyone off. He's insistent that he do things for people even when they didn't ask for it. He kind of does things on your behalf before you're even aware that the choice comes up. But at the same time does this so that he can have leverage over you. "I brought drinks for everyone! Oh, and I'm only charging everyone a dollar per drink!" (Everyone calls him out on this and tells him to stop, but he pouts and acts offended when we don't accept his "Generosity".)
>One player is older, but he's stuck in his ways and has all these preconceived notions of how the game and the game world are "supposed" to be. "Ah, this enemy is undead, therefore it is weak to bludgeoning damage... WHAT? IT'S NOT? NO, YOU'RE DOING THINGS WRONG BECAUSE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE WEAK TO-" And he does this about EVERYTHING.
>One player is a classic "Dickass Thief" who does irritating, juvenile antics all the time. On a rare occasion it's been funny, but most of the time it's tonally different than everything else that's come up in the campaign, and everyone cringes whenever he does this stuff. (Honestly, out of all the people he's the least bothersome though.)
>One girl has to be told to take her phone calls outside just about every game
>Another guy is fed up with everyone else, but instead of handling it is very vocal and awkward. It's not enough to tell someone to correct their behavior, he has to sperg out

I want to leave them and find other players, but it took so long to scrounge up people in my area, and I've been working on this campaign so long... I can't play online either because that's not playing at all.

>>96491086
The scale of dungeon exploration is fucked up because they didn't understand how it works, morale is fucked up because the results are backwards, treasure is fucked up as a consequence of gold-as-xp becoming optional, the thief is different because muh useless skills, specialist MUs are totally different, the druid and cleric magic at large are fucked up, character creation is fucked up, NWPs exist (don't tell me they're optional, the system is baked in), the censorship is fucked up because muh Satanic Panic.

2e was my stepping stone toward OSR but please don't pretend that the games are the same.

>>96491010
>2e was created with the intent to undo the style of play put forward by Gygax in a way that no other RPG ever was
Oh, agreed. It's about the most cynical publication imaginable, impossible to respect as a game. I can understand how and why it would be well received at the time, but with the benefit of hindsight there's really nothing to defend it.

>>96491041
>Why is that relevant?
It's not, I said it was super minor. It's just that Anon says in his primer that every third or fourth hex is keyed.

(There *is* a case to be made that density of hex keying is an important facet of hexcrawl design, demonstrated in the negative by how Dolmenwood-style fun lands with something in every single hex are unplayable slogs in practice, but any discussion of exact proportions is fairly abstruse and not at all relevant to a players' primer, so in context this is an extreme nitpick. I freely admit this.)

>>96491086
>he is still blabbering on about this long-discredited horseshit even though literally nobody ITT buys it
kekkkkk

>>96491148
You're inflating the differences while doing your best to demonize them, ignoring any benefits while exaggerating any drawbacks, and all to such a degree that it's impossible to consider you unbiased or impartial.
You can play whatever edition or even system you want, but of all the things you could claim, "2e was born in opposition to how old school D&D was intended to be played by Gygax and Arneson" is some of the most ridiculous nonsense imaginable.
It's like saying French Vanilla is a flavor designed to destroy and undermine everything that Vanilla stands for.

>>96491146
NAYRT but it sounds like only the last guy isn't cancer. RIP desu, I don't think this is fixable. Your problem is shit players.

>>96491142
It's not a surprising choice, considering it was bundled with the Basic set and also designed explicitly for beginners, which is why it's one of the best selling adventures of all time. They also did a Tomb of Horrors novel, because of course they did, and not because ToH has ever been respected for its story OR its dungeon, but because of its meme status.

>>96491138
dude, thanks a lot.
The XP issue didn't even cross my mind, I don't know if there's some internal mechanism that bypasses this like particular magic items or if the general enemy level is kept within a calculated range. But this is all stuff I could never pick up.

I'll check B4, maybe I'm being contrarian about B2 because I've heard too much about this and I could do the effort to get into B/X properly.

>>96491197
>dude, thanks a lot.
No sweat friend, this stuff isn't easy to work out from scratch!

I think the idea is that the enemies are indeed supposed to be confined within a given manageable range, but since travel is effectively random (and this is a worse issue for lower-level characters) it's difficult for the players to choose their challenges and they're liable to get bumbled into something they can't handle by the dice – that's how it looks to me, anyhow. (Also, nobody here has a problem with PC death, but something that might not be obvious from outside is that excalating XP requirements + PC death means there needs to be access to a lot of challenges and treasures appropriate for low-level characters, since each dead PC is in some sense an amount of treasure=XP down the drain. The common old-school solution for this is vast dungeons and large, open overworlds, but I'm not seeing much of either of those in this book.)

>>96491191
I could see someone using Tomb of Horrors as a medium for Heart of Darkness. People hating every step of the process and rethinking their lives through the absurdity of it all. I'd have to read a blurb to judge it because the more I think about it the cooler it sounds.

Wiki doesn't have any details about the actual plot, but it says it was part of a series of novelizations celebrating the 25th aniversary of D&D that include Keep but also White Plume Mountain. That one I can't see working in any way, it's three half dungeons stuck together.

>In 1999, order to recognize the 25th anniversary of Dungeons & Dragons, Wizards of the Coast published the "Greyhawk Classics", a series of seven novels based on well-known D&D adventures published by TSR during the first decade of the game: Against the Giants (1999), White Plume Mountain (1999), Descent into the Depths of the Earth (2000), The Temple of Elemental Evil (2001), Queen of the Demonweb Pits (2001), Keep on the Borderlands (2001), and finally, The Tomb of Horrors (2002)

>>96491191
>They also did a Tomb of Horrors novel
Yikes. I see what you're saying, but frankly, that just sounds like another cracked idea to me.

>>96491086
>2e is nearly identical to 1e.
If you believe that, you either don't know 1e or don't know 2e, possibly both. But there's no reason to go over it for the thousandth time, you can just read the archives at this point

>>96491197
>I'll check B4
NTA. You do you, but B4 is nowhere as good as B2 for learning how to play old school D&D, since it lacks a base to return to at the end of each session as well as wilderness exploration. And because of that it's not really suitable out of the box for the advanced modes of play such semi-open tables, multiple adventuring groups, some form of 1:1 time. or wargaming-style mass engagements.

B4 was an interesting experiment when it came out perhaps also because it went against some of the common adventure and setting design principles, but ultimately it hasn't stood the test of time to the degree that B2 has, and it won't force you to grow as a DM anywhere as much as B2 will.

Can B4 be fun? Sure. Many people have played in it and loved it. But it's sub-optimal.

>>96490934
>Not personally, I bought a few copies of the Lulu print that was floating around.
The one that binds them all together in one paperback, or is there a version for separate booklets?

>The Greyhawk text I think, but won't swear, doesn't have distinct variations so printing that should be fine, probably.
I'm skimming through it now and aside from desecrating the title page by plastering their logo on it, the actual content seems mostly the same from what I can tell.. I'll just replace the cover and the title page with the ones from the original and that should work I think.

>>96491272
Personally I absolutely adore B4, I think it's the strongest of the classics. Despite the flaws you mentioned, it has that Red Nails aesthetic down pat and a pretty good spread of encounter types. Plus faction play.

>>96491261
I think you live in a world where the only games you've ever compared are 1e and 2e. With such a narrow point of view, the differences must be overwhelming.

I Remember there was a site where all the traps monsters and class posted here was catalogued. It was a funny blog and the link was in the OP post. Now it disappeared. I can't find it even in the pastebin. Someone could help please?

>>96491272
If he's just getting into B/X, Anon's hardly likely to be looking to engage in some BrOSR shit. On the contrary he seems to have found a setting/module he really liked and gone from there. That's the framework I'm trying to answer his questions in anyway. B2 is classic for a reason but there's no denying it also has its flaws. It's disjointed, ofter perceived as dull by players, and can be unreasonably brutal to the inexperienced.

>>96491306
>The one that binds them all together in one paperback?
That one, yes. There's a second one for supplements 1-3, but I think the old links dn't work anymore after Lulu changed their backend which in turn changed all the URLs.

>>96491362
>https://osrgcontent.blogspot.com/

>>96491363
how is B1 for getting into the game - nta but i've been interested in running b/x for my group while we switch between games and i've got the module.

>>96491376
B1 is also okay and notable for some valuable advice on running the game, which is not found int he Holmes rulebook it was bundled with. Its main issue is the extent to which it's a "schoolbook" module – the lower level is left for the fledgling referee to finish himself, and the upper level has a map which is basically meant more as a lesson to the players on the potential forms of map shenanigans than any kind of sensible environment. I always recommend using Dyson Logos' revised maps for this module, which divides the upper level over two floors:
>https://dysonlogos.blog/2018/04/16/return-to-quasqueton-map-1-of-3/

>>96491336
I've been playing various RPGs for 45 years, and you're full of shit. Thinking that supposedly "small" book differences like those between 1e and 2e can't lead to big table differences is the mark of a guy who doesn't play.

>>96491435
45 years and most of them filled with blinding bias isn't impressive and actually kind of sad.
I know lots of older guys who seem to live life with less of a "learn from me" wisdom and more of a "learn so that you don't become like me" self-imposed ignorance.
It's really a shame that these kind of decrepit almost-corpses cling so hard to the past, and try to define the OSR by how much they hate everything else, even other OSR.

>>96491464
Old people don't belong on the internet.

Does anyone have that Mentzer screencap? The one where he completely forgot how the internet works and self destructed?

>>96491505
Are you talking about when Mentzer made that really awkward PM where he tried to intimidate someone into leaving DF?
That wasn't because he was old. That was because he's a retard who thinks he has magic powers.

>>96491536
Don't know.

What I remember is Ment saying
>"I'm old and you need to listen to me and you have a charisma score of one and I'm old and you need to respect my authority and also please dont share this message with anyone its very private oh i'm so very old."

>>96491536
>That wasn't because he was old. That was because he's a retard who thinks he has magic powers.
This. We know Mentzer was dumb since he did BECMI, and probably before that
>36 levels sounds about right to me!

>>96490884
>Who wants to read a novelization of an adventure?

I'll go you one better, the novelization of an early cRPG. As I recall, and it wasn't more than a year or two that I read it

>City Leader: Are you the heroes who cleared out the evil creatures from the temple that was infested but which we inexplicably moved citizens right next to?
>Heroes: Yes.
>CL: Good, good. There's a monster infestation outside the city, you're going to clear it out.
>H: 'Kay, where?
>CL: Right outside the city.
A few moments later
>H: We got rid of the monsters for you.
>CL: Good. Time to clear out the next infestation
>H: Where?
>CL: Just outside the city. Right next to where the last lot were.

Don't know if it was Ward's contribution or his co-authoress's but I did appreciate the mechanical fidelity to AD&D especially the PHB spell-description-accurate magic that slaps you in the face harder than the misandry in a Captain Marvel movie.

Saving this for posterity.

>>96474844 (OP)
>Do you enjoy music while gaming? If so, what kind?
Well yeah. Dungeon synth, obviously

>>96492158
The sad reality is no matter how much proof we have, until his faggot bodyguard is gone there's not much that can be done about it.
It's like having proof that the Sheriffs brother is drunk driving in a small town, doesn't matter if you've got all the evidence in the world, pushing for the law is just going to get you in trouble instead of him.
May this thread one day get its own Heemeyer.

>>96492162
based, next step is to get a tape deck (the shittier the better) and start playing DS off cassette tape as Mortiis intended

>>96492168
You not appreciating how badly you got beaten is pretty sad.
Also, you do this thing a lot, where you always try to turn any conversation into a game where you stop actually talking about the topic at hand, and then just laser focus on screaming that whoever you're talking to is actually your boogeyman. Having seen you do this to other people as well as seeing you do this right now, you're basically just trying to force the other person to have to drop the discussion and instead defend against your accusations and to also defend your phantom strawmen, and you actually think people can't catch on to this even though they keep outing you and your tantrums keep disappearing.
Whoa, that post actually contains a post that outs you, you even screencapped it, and you still haven't succeeded in reading it yet. I understand you live life with blinders on, but damn son, that's a complete lack of self-awareness.

The funniest part is that the proof we have, of you having your screaming matches with literally no one on the other end in the last thread, shows that you have no respect for this board, its rules, its culture, or its people, and yet you expect them to respect you and your increasingly insane claims with no proof beyond you begging people to believe you.
But, while that's the funny part, the sad part is that you're still just attacking your phantom. No one is your phantom. Not me, not the other people who've disagreed with you in the past that you've thrown tantrums over, and not the literally absolute no one that you were shrieking at in the last thread. Please, just for a second, actually think about how you've genuinely lost control over yourself. You mention caring about this general, but you were throwing tantrums even entirely unprovoked.
You've got someone living in your head.
And, now's the part where you ignore everything and begin to shriek at your imaginary enemy because that's a hell of a lot easier for you than facing what's been said.

>>96492860
>his new "strat" is to get anally raped to the core and then declare victory

>>96492860
I don't say this rhetorically, I really do wonder what motivates someone to put this much effort into trying to gaslight an anonymous person on an internet forum dedicated to playing with figurines and graph paper

>>96491146
>He kind of does things on your behalf before you're even aware that the choice comes up. But at the same time does this so that he can have leverage over you.
I don't know how other people would react, but in every group of people I've been it would've probably gone like this:
>The first time we'd let it go, awkwardly, but the next time he'd try to pull this crap again, he would've been unanimously kicked out.
>Second one: this are the rules. Thats' it. Either accept them, or there's the door.
>Third one seems acceptable, especially considering the others.
>Be firm and tell her: next time you do that, you're out.
>Same on the last one: if you don't like the group, leave instead of complaining all the time.
The problem I see is only 1 (one): you're letting people getting away with it, and they do take advantage of it.
>I want to leave them and find other players
Well, you're completely right on this.
>I can't play online
The last 2 campaigns I've played online were a blast, give it a try.

>>96492860
I'm going to give you a hint just because I kinda feel bad for how pitiful you are: if you want to pretend to be several people, you can't use the exact same words and phrases each time. When each and every single post sounds identical, nobody with a two-digit or better IQ will believe you.

>>96492908
Perhaps it is a victory to him. Perhaps we're dealing with a masochistic faggot who gets off to getting humiliated.

>>96492948
The wild thing is that on my end, I've seen you attack, at minimum, someone else. You're usually attacking someone else, when you're actually attacking a possible someone and not just screaming into the void. At the absolute, ultimate minimum, I know with full 100% certainty that you do this thing to at least one other person, if we're talking about absolutely certain knowledge, something rare on this website. I've seen you rage at him (or her, but let's be real here), with the same exact self-assured certainty that you're raging at me right now.
Though, I'm also fairly convinced your "everyone i disagree with sounds the same" rhetoric is something even you don't actually believe and just something you say because that's how you do everything, and that the people who you've disagreed with number far more than just me and a single boogeyman. In fact, considering the various and diverse arguments you've thrown your trademark tantrums over, it's almost guaranteed that your boogeyman is composed of several dozen people at this point, and that number keeps growing the more you decide to throw everyone you disagree with into your amalgamated composite enemy.
I don't really care if you are a single guy samefagging or actually 2-3 guys, because the whole "turn every argument into a distraction" nonsense is something only you and maybe some incredibly impressionable idiots put any value into, which is why just about everyone just tries to ignore you at this point when you go on your tantrums. You (pluralled "you" if that makes you feel better) have taken this general and tried to set things up in a way where anyone that disagrees with you becomes your boogeyman, in hopes of dissuading disagreement. Your efforts, irrational but calculated, are just hoping to create an echo chamber here, even by your own admission and stated agenda.
That's not how this website works.

>>96493085
>I've seen you attack
The thing is, you haven't. You're straight delulu. I never participate in these slapfights, it's just very apparent from the outside that it's the entire thread vs. you, the sole derailer. So the thing you think you know "at the absolute, ultimate minimum" is something you made up that lives in your head rent-free.

Take this "boogeyman" thing. You use that same word every time eventually. Every single time. It's like you can't help yourself.

Pitiful, like I said.

>>96493127
You tried derailing the thread even when no one was arguing with you in the last thread. You attacked your boogeyman, and then wondered why your boogeyman wasn't responding to you.
He wasn't going to, because he's not real. He has no impetus or ego or even existence in order to reply to you with.
Even now, the only reason I'm replying to you is because you tagged my post before you decided to address your boogeyman. I'm replying to you because you're trying to send a letter but keep putting the wrong address on the envelope.
You're not talking to the flesh and blood person that I am. You're talking to something that only lives in your head.

>>96493155
And there's the UNO Reverse card. Well, I'm out. Like I said, I never participate in these slapfights, and it's pretty clear that you're not going to take my advice about varying your voice a bit if you want to pretend to be several people. Too mentally ill, I guess. Ah well.

>>96492908
It's been like this for a while, you can link to him getting absolutely pegged in the archives and his response will be
>I-I didn't lose that argument, you lost that argument, it's not that everyone was calling me a retard, if that's you were samefagging the entire thread, I am a winner, I WIN, IWINIWINIWIN.
There's nothing short of a lobotomy that can fix this.
He's maybe 2-3 threads away from declaring everyone who disagrees with him has old school sluggish schizophrenia at this rate.

>>96493127
The sad fact is no amount of pointing out he's wrong is going to stop him. He's reached that point where any proof against his conspiracy theory is evidence for it.
Randos mentioning ACKS in passing? All the same person, even in other threads.
The other side going 'This guy is bugfuck, look at the archives and make your own decision'? Obvious attempt to rewrite history rather than just providing evidence of his previous shenannigans.
Posters directly addressing him with 'I don't give a fuck about your little argument, I just find you irritating and want you to go away'? No such thing, there's only 2 posters on /tg/, him and (the other guy), so clearly it's the other guy.
People asking what the fuck he's on about? Clearly attempts to stop him speaking the truth!
He shouldn't be on /tg/, he should be off on a street corner somewhere wearing a 'The end is nigh' sign with his pants around his ankles and people desperately trying to not make eye contact with him as he beats off.
But sadly the mods, wisest and fairest of all 4channers, have decided that the rest of us have to put up with their super-autistic goon-goblin and thus we're stuck with him.

>>96493155
>Pink_Guy_Kill_Yourself.mp4.mp3.exe

>He's started referring to himself in bootleg Patrick Bateman quotes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVc-IaHbhEU

>>96493167
>Like I said, I never participate in these slapfights
Evidence trumps claims. It's hard to treat you like anything but a liar when you say you never participate in slapfights when you're literally in the middle of participating in one.
in general, it's hard to treat you like anything but a willful liar. The whole business of trying to spin up a narrative where everyone agrees with you and anyone that disagrees is a single person has all the hallmarks of a charlatan.
You keep doing this thing where you pretend to be replying to me, but instead you're just grandstanding for an audience, like you actually think there's people who care about your fictional boogeyman lore and are not just desperately waiting for your tantrum to end.

>>96493230
I know I shouldn't but I'm going to do you a kindness for once in your wretched, Gollum-esq fish-centric existence.
Doubtless this will come back to bite off my ring finger at some point.
You think you're talking to me, retard-kun, and I, though I doubt you'll believe me on this, am not him.
Maybe stop picking fights like you're a half-cut dead beat dad who just got his kid kicked out of an IHOP on a visitation day and people will stop treating you with such open, blithe contempt.
Best part is I can tell you this to your face and, wretched scrote that you are, you're not going to believe me, not going to change your behaviour and not going to stop making enemies.
Every time you interact with someone justifies me and every other people who has laughed at you, because each time you reply to someone one thing becomes perfectly clear. You're the kind of motherfucker who eats a Snickers bar upside down so he can enjoy the veins against his tongue.

But in this case you're throwing your chubby, soft down-syndrome hands at someone who hasn't done shit to you and, again, isn't the person you have beef with the most.
Since based on pure frequency of who makes you seethe and spin out the hardest?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8th-9y5se4

>>96493230
>>96493281
It's all of these comments are from the same person arguing with himself for shits and giggles. Are you screen shotting these and sending them to your Discord friends? The reality is that just about everyone in this thread is ignoring you, if they've noticed you at all.
As for me, sometimes you're a little amusing. I had a very slight chuckle at "Gollum-esq fish-centric existence." For the most part though, this is a whole lot of nothing.
Can I ask what you're getting out of it?

>>96493281
I already addressed this.
>I don't really care if you are a single guy samefagging or actually 2-3 guys, because the whole "turn every argument into a distraction" nonsense is something only you and maybe some incredibly impressionable idiots put any value into, which is why just about everyone just tries to ignore you at this point when you go on your tantrums. You (pluralled "you" if that makes you feel better) have taken this general and tried to set things up in a way where anyone that disagrees with you becomes your boogeyman, in hopes of dissuading disagreement. Your efforts, irrational but calculated, are just hoping to create an echo chamber here, even by your own admission and stated agenda.
Also, your attempts at banter are incredibly lame and unfunny, and also embarrassingly unoriginal. Really, going with the upside-down snickers bar?
And, this is some pretty ironic and also pretty shitty writing coming out of you.
>Maybe stop picking fights [some dumb bullshit etc. etc. etc.]
Says the guy who was trying to pick fights with his imaginary enemy for dozens of posts in the very last thread. That's a dosage of hypocrisy that could kill an ordinary man, and you're not even sweating.

>>96493310
lol okay, you got me. You're not gonna believe it but you actually were right except for the very last post, that actually is some other anon stepping in with some "advice" trying to be funny or something
I do this on /osrg/ because I'm bored. There really isn't any reason aside from this.

>>96493316
>>96493325
Are you fucking serious?

so anyway, how about them dungeons and/or dragons

>>96493330
Yes, but I'm gonna go back to pretending this isn't true, because it's more fun that way.

>>96491016
Oh, good to know. Does that extend to the three other Wilderlands splats? Just curious.

>>96491175
>It's like saying French Vanilla is a flavor designed to destroy and undermine everything that Vanilla stands for.
It is. French vanilla is
>Plan not special enough for you? Have special plane!

>>96493341
>>Plan not special enough for you? Have special plane!
what the fuck is this supposed to mean

What are the good budget systems with a minimal of rules light faggotry?

>>96493341
>a flavor that comes from an exotic orchid that used to be more valuable than gold is "plain"

>>96493355
What do you mean by Rules light Faggotry? (Sorry, not trying to start anything, I just don't know if what I'm about to recommend is exactly what you're not looking for...)

>>96493330
If you make a major attempt on the life of at least one public figure in your country and/or mail the local post office a pipe bomb then I'll reveal the truth.
Do it Fishfag.
Take off the seatbelt and be free.
Not sure about the other guy but I'm not him and not in this to fuck with people. Fishfag is a blight on these threads and he absolutely keeps picking fights with other people thinking its me. Or maybe I'm just so vain I think this song is about me.

>>96493368
There you go again. Attacking a phantom. What convinces you this "Fishfag" is a real person, and not just a blurry aggregate of your own personal failings and projections?
To make use of a somewhat common phrase in the modern parlance: is Fishfag in the room with us right now?

>>96493386
>What convinces you this "Fishfag" is a real person, and not just a blurry aggregate of your own personal failings and projections?
You really want to know? Alright, I'll tell you.
Basic.
Pattern.
Recognition.

>>96493392
Can you be sure I'm not Fishfag? Pattern recognition is notoriously faulty.

I've already done you a favour by letting you know the other guy isn't me. Maybe he is shitposting. Either way, you've had enough (you) juice, any more and you won't be able to drive.
So, off you fuck.

>>96493348
precoffee spelling
>>96493359
It is. Times change. Marketing is hell, welcome to enshitification, etc.

Food metaphors never work.

>>96493355
Printing BX at the library or work or the resource centre or whatever.

>>96493413
so just use ose ig then

>>96493335
NAYRT but I'd think they're all roughly at the same level except maybe Map 6, which is crammed with stuff for some reason, way more detailed than the others Maybe they just felt obligated to expand on it more to justify the World Emperor set.

>>96493330
I'm >>96492948 >>96493127 >>96493167 and the so-called fishfag 100% isn't me. I'm genuinely baffled by how shit he is. But at the same time I think if he were a troll he'd be better at varying himself so on the balance I'd assume >>96493325 is just joking, otherwise he'd have to be extremely inept.

>>96493453
OSE is an alright reference if that's what you want. B/X has examples of play and advice that gets missed if you just go straight to OSE.
ymmv.

>>96493472
Nah, Fishfag is the guy you were replying to.
It's really, really easy to tell who he is as you mentioned.

>>96490884
>Is the target audience people who wish they could play but can't?
That is the target audience for almost all RPG-branded novels. Those books fill the same niche real play podcasts do now.

>>96493413
>>96493490
OSE doesn't need the examples of play since it explains the rules in clear concise language that people alive in the 1970s and 1980s couldn't muster. On top of that, it has significantly better layout, and buying the PoD of it is 1/3rd of the price as using the printer at the library.

>>96493560
>I don't need to read examples to learn
Okay. glhf

>>96493650
You shouldn't need them, they're a crutch for bad explanations.

>>96493516
Right, but the other anon was claiming to be doing both sides of the slapfight himself, faking an argument to amuse himself. I'm saying, my posts at least aren't part of some fabricated shitflinging.

>>96492162
I tired it and it was a bit too techno for me. The songs also switched from stuff I'd have overland and stuff for inside a dungeon. But I don't know if it's worth it to download, section and edit so they can loop.
Do you have albums in particular that work for you? Maybe I'm picking bad ones

>>96492947
>The last 2 campaigns I've played online were a blast, give it a try.
the problem online is ththat it's just as hard to find a group you enjoy as real life, but there's way more people.
Every now and then I get a player that's impressed that we have proper mics, mute if we're making noise, try not to talk over each other, or some other basic shit like that. And it did took me a couple awful discord servers until I found one I liked.

>>96493127
>>96493155
both of you are derailing the thread into drama.
It takes two to tango.
It doesn't matter who is in the wrong, anyone keeping up with this is in the wrong. Just cut it out and it will end.

>>96493783
>Every now and then I get a player that's impressed that we have proper mics, mute if we're making noise, try not to talk over each other, or some other basic shit like that. And it did took me a couple awful discord servers until I found one I liked.
Damn...
I suggest you try to look for games into the Official Discord of your favorite RPG. Except for D&D 5E: in that case, you're on your own.

>>96493738
Not that anon. Here two Dungeon synth YouTube channels https://www.youtube.com/@dungeonmastersynth and https://www.youtube.com/@TheDungeonSynthArchives. This should give a lot of albums to try,

>>96493797
Great impression of a Headteacher in a school with lead pipes there man. You really hit the 'I don't care who started it, this school has a zero tolerance policy on fighting back' tone of a true corporatized subhuman.
Both sides aren't 'equally bad' and it doesn't 'take two to tango'
It takes one fuckhead who keeps trying to start shit and will push further and further until someone gives him a smack around the chops, as proven in basically any thread where people have ignored him over the past 6 months, and then there's the rest of us who keep the retard suppression field maintained.
Because, mind you, the Jannies won't and in fact have made active efforts to side with the retard.

>>96493797
I actually agree with you. That's why I tapped out after three posts. I usually just report his shit and move on, no point feeding trolls.

>>96493662
>It has explanations
>You don't need those is there are explanations
lmao

>>96493797
Only works if both participants are rational.
There's been a persistent troll for years on /osrg/ who's been trying to get 2nd ed to be a thing, combined with /pol/ motivated discords and culture war shit between americans who think osr is trad and americans who think osr is artfreedom.
Its into the moderation at this point. Probably take a bit to sort out. The best method forward for the general is posting about actual gameplay.

>The 7th Plague of Egypt (The Janny) is upon us once more
Most watched thread on /tg/, as always.

We need to make mandatory sharing game session reports and journals for every regular poster worthy or that name in /osrg/. Other than BFRPGuy and AzteCKS guy the rest of us are faggots until proven otherwise.

Can someone help me get my head around monsters with HD modifiers? As I understand it, the modifier adjusts the total number of HP after rolling HD. So a HD 3+3 monster would roll 3d6 (for OD&D) and add 3 for their final HP, with an average of 13.5. This is compared to an average of 10.5 for a flat 3HD creature. That makes sense. the +3 is essentially an extra HD of HP, but not extra fighting capacity. What I don't get are things like an ogre having 4+1 HD. What difference does the extra hit point make, really? Or manticores and basilisks, both with 6+1 HD. I can see the point of a goblin having 1-1, as a way to get a 1/2 HD creature, but these tiny modifiers on relatively high HD just baffle me. What am I missing?

>>96493918
Your greentext belies your lack of reading comprehension, so I guess you would need the explanations if you could read them.

>>96494804
>As I understand it, the modifier adjusts the total number of HP after rolling HD. So a HD 3+3 monster would roll 3d6 (for OD&D) and add 3 for their final HP, with an average of 13.5. This is compared to an average of 10.5 for a flat 3HD creature.
Correct.

>the +3 is essentially an extra HD of HP, but not extra fighting capacity.
Wrong.

>What I don't get are things like an ogre having 4+1 HD. What difference does the extra hit point make, really?
+1 HP.
Possibly a bonus to hit depending on the edition (in B/X it's +1).
Possibly increased resistance to certain spells (for example, in AD&D, you affect affect 1-2 monsters with 4HD or 0-1 monsters with 4+1 HD).
Possibly saving as one level higher.
Possibly, the ability to hit creatures that can only be hit by magical weapons (in AD&D, a 4+1 HD monster strikes as a +1 weapon, a 4 HD one strikes as a normal weapon).

>Or manticores and basilisks, both with 6+1 HD.
See above. E.g. if they had 6+2 instead of 6+1 HD, in AD&D they'd be able to damage monsters that are only vulnerable to +2 weapons or better.

>I can see the point of a goblin having 1-1, as a way to get a 1/2 HD creature,
Wrong. In B/X and AD&D, a Kobold has 1/2 HD (1d4), while a Goblin has 1-1 (1d8-1). In AD&D, they also have different THAC0s: 21 for Kobolds and 20 for Goblins.

>>96494958
>Possibly increased resistance to certain spells (for example, in AD&D, you affect affect 1-2 monsters with 4HD or 0-1 monsters with 4+1 HD).
^ Talking about the Sleep spell here.

>>96494804
>the +3 is essentially an extra HD of HP, but not extra fighting capacity.
Well, not really... any plus to the Hit Dice bumps the monster up to the next tier of fighting capability.

>What I don't get are things like an ogre having 4+1 HD. What difference does the extra hit point make, really?
It does the above, so the situation is almost the opposite of what you were thinking: the +1 boosts the Ogre to the 5 HD level of fighting capability, making it a more powerful attacker than its Hit Dice would seem to imply. In the case of the Ogre specifically this is probably meant to represent its great strength, since it also does extra damage with its attacks (rare in LBB OD&D).

That being said, it's not a great idea to overthink this stuff, because the math and probabilities of the old-school editions combine an occasionally surprising depth of insight with instances of flat innumeracy (such as the conversion of armor modifiers from the Chainmail table to a d20 basis in AD&D; absolutely cack-handed work).

>>96494978
>it's not a great idea to overthink this stuff
I'm not sure if I'm overthinking or just can't find a clear explanation of what HD X+Y actually means. Monsters and treasure doesn't make it clear at all, just saying that against normal men monsters make as many attacks as they have HD, with any bonuses being applied to only one attack (ex a troll gets 6 attacks, one at +3). But that doesn't seem to be what you OR >>96494958 are describing.

Is 2e an okay system? I'm just interested in Dark Sun.

>>96495060
It's essentially the poster child for "okay system."
Probably the only thing that isn't completely mid is the settings that came out for it, which vary from great to insane fever dream.

>>96495060
No, it's crap. But you already know this, you're just baiting.

>>96495060
Dark Sun is overrated as fuck

>>96495052
Ah, that's for resolving combat with Chainmail, which is (in theory at least) the primary combat system in the LBBs. We've been answering in terms of the Alternative Combat System, the one which became the standard D&D combat system and which is based on d20 attack rolls. The Alternative Combat attack matrix for monsters is found on page 20 of Vol. I, but in LBB OD&D the only + that matters is the "1+1" category, distinct from "up to 1".

The mention of the troll on page II:5 is in reference to Chainmail combat; in combat against normal-types (this is why "normal" is underlined), the way monsters fight is that they have a troop type they attack equivalently to, and they attack as the number of those troops corresponding to their Hit Dice; they add their Hit Die modifier to one of the attacks only, which in the case of a +3 is more or less a guaranteed hit against most opponents.

(In the case of trolls specifically there's actually a discrepancy here between Vol. II and Chainmail, but never mind that for now.)

>>96495060
Sorry, this isn't the thread for that system. You're probably better off making your own thread to ask about it.

>>96495261
replying to bait is as bad as posting it. You won't out smart or humiliate someone that only wanted a response.
Don't feed the troll.

>>96495060
If you enjoy 1e and earlier you will like 2e.

>>96495156
I'd actually say it's underrated.
Most people just say "cool art" and then move on, but the actual setting is rarely discussed despite being Conan but taken up to eleven. Out of all the settings that came out during that time, it's probably the one that took itself most seriously, but in a good way, and not in a "Ravenloft is serious business" way.

>>96495253
So for OD&D alternative combat system purposes just check the table and see whether a +x alters fighting ability or not? It's that simple?

>>96495106
>>96495294
I'm not baiting, I'm literally new here and the only thing I've asked about before is if OSE was a good starting point and was told to start with B/X because it gives good advice on learning the game.

>>96495380
Yes, and also the answer is "or not" in almost every case because none of the columns except 1+1 takes pluses into account. B/X and AD&D both change this (see for example the table on page B27 in Moldvay Basic) so that it does matter, but you can pretty much ignore it, there's just one special case.

>>96495416
Well, 2e is not liked in this thread because it's a bad and non-old-school system. There's one sperg who keeps trollposting it specifically because it isn't OSR, hence some of the reactions you got.

But yeah, there's literally no reason to ever use 2e. Whatever you want it for, either 1e or one of the later editions will be better.

>>96495416
Please ignore our resident autistic shits. 2e is OSR, and this is the OSR thread.

>>96495420
Good to know. Thanks for the clarifications.

>>96495416
Some guys are just mad because 2e came out after Gygax got fired for using too much cocaine and failing to get a movie made.

2e is much easier to read and understand than 1e because they got actual writers to write it up, but it's still AD&D so its pretty complicated for a starting point.

>>96495416
Okay, benefit of the doubt then. On the off-chance that you're not baiting. Long story short, if you're interested in old-school style D&D, 2e is not a good option because it intentionally violates many of the core principles of early D&D, and in fact it was written explicitly AGAINST it: You should pick between B/X, AD&D, and OD&D. If you want more information on how to go about it, we've been writing two guides for newbies, one for DMs and another one for players, that you can find discuss in this thread.

>>96495416
If you are interested in OSR then 2e isn't a particularly good game for it. Fundamentally it's designed more around pre-built storylines (An original sin that started with AD&D 2e actually for the most part and hickman)

If you want to go for OSR then Darksun is a perfectly legit setting for it (In fact it's the most legit of the 2e settings for doing an OSR game because a lot of OSR concepts are kind of designed into it without them intending to do so), but I'd advise starting with a different system to go with it.
ACKS, B/X, 1e, OD&D, as long as you, fundamentally, run using OSR principles then you'll be golden.
Personally I'd recommend ACKS since that way you can eventually build into the higher concepts of the setting without going storygame mode, those higher concepts being:
>Become an undead dickass wizard in a thong made of bones
>Run a city state
>Build a giant dickass tower and stand atop it in your thong of bones cackling madly
>Kill other dickass wizards for their slightly nicer thongs made of bones

>>96495474
No, that's your autism speaking, and something absent from just about everywhere else that discusses OSR.
Your "core principles" are also different from most people's core principles, because your core principles are really just "Anything that isn't 2e". Even the subsection of guys who ended up on the K&KA forum who hate 2e probably as much as you do have completely different core OSR principles than you.
Mike Finch, co-creator of OSRIC, laid out just four core pillars of OSR.
1. Rulings from the gamemaster are more important than rule books. Concoct a clever plan and let the gamemaster rule on it.
2. Player skill is more important than character abilities. Outwit the enemy, don't simply out-fight them.
3. Emphasize the heroic, not the superheroic. Success lies in experience, not superpowers.
4. Game balance is not important. If the characters meet a more powerful opponent, either think of a clever plan or run away.
2e follows all of those pretty clearly, or, at least, it can, since it's pretty versatile (like most RPG systems are).

>>96495504
>Personally I'd recommend ACKS
While I generally like ACKS, I doubt it's the best core system to start with for a newbie, given that the most up-to-date iteration is 1,500 pages. But if OP is fine with it, more power to him.

>>96495504
>that started with AD&D 2e actually
*that started with AD&D 1e actually
Yeah, the rot started to set in in the mid-to-late 1e era

>>96495524
Tell us more about the archetypal OSR hero Raistlin and his Sharingan why don't you?
Or are we going to pretend that 'The three gods of magic all turned up at my entry test and basically gave me soft head over how great I was at magic' is still 'Emphasize the heroic, not the superheroic. Success lies in experience, not superpowers'?
If you were any more inbred you'd be a bakery.

>>96495504
>Fundamentally it's designed more around pre-built storylines
This claim is oft repeated here but it's entirely untrue, alongside the "2e is ANTI-1e!" nonsense.

Fundamentally, it's designed as... 1e, but polished up a bit. The whole "War must be waged over two incredibly similar games" is absolutely ridiculous, especially when both of them are intrinsically OSR games according to every definition but your personal one.

>>96495539
>the rot started to set in in the mid-to-late 1e era
The rot started in 1984, to be precise, with the publication of Dragonlance, and reached its peak during the "AD&D" 2e era.

>>96495568
You can post that as hard, often and long as you like, but you're posting mechanical changes without acknowledging changes in design philosophy.
By which I mean: stop touching your cock under the table, retard, we all know what you're up to.

>>96495568
The nonsense here is what you're posting. The designers were explicit in their goals, even if the system they devised doesn't really support what they wanted
Good job posting a 15 year old preliminary version of that list, not the up-to-date PDF, BTW

>>96495060
It's meh at best and also not OSR and so off-topic.

>>96495554
>If you were any more inbred you'd be a bakery.
KEK
The one good thing about this autist shitting the thread up is the creativity unleashed in the thread's insults of him.

>>96495373
It's in a weird spot.
It is over rated by nogames that imagine how cool it must be, the type of people demanding WotC makes a 5e version. I've seen way too much of that, I couldn't say it's not hyped to absurdity. But it's also kinda under rated because a lot of what it did hasn't been properly replicated, clearly there's not that much interest in it as there could be.

But, you know, you can just run it. It exists, people played it, you can ask for advice to tweak or change stuff to focus on the aspects you like. If anything I'd say it's more open to play than other 2e settings that are just there and no one cares about them.

>>96495504
now that Dark Sun popped up as a topic I'm a bit curious.
If I go get the initial book, how much do I need to change to run it on B/X? I know it has some setting original stuff but I don't know what it is.

>>96495554
...Is Raistlin a typical character? A character people were expected to emulate? I don't even think it's possible to play a character like Raistlin is in the novels in 2e, so it's a wonder why you're using him as an example of what kind of characters people would make with that system.

You might as well point at Elminster and the Elminster novels.
I'll help educate you on this thing: People are not expected to play Elminster. Hell, people are expected to try and find ways to kill him.

>>96495646
>...Is Raistlin a typical character? A character people were expected to emulate? I don't even think it's possible to play a character like Raistlin is in the novels in 2e, so it's a wonder why you're using him as an example of what kind of characters people would make with that system.
Lmao are you retarded? Raistlin is literally a pregen from the Dragonlance module series, he fucking started out as a PC.

>>96495646
The Dragonlance novels were a novelization of a campaign. When the Gully Dwarf gal falls in love with one of the PCs after a charm spell, it's due to a random roll causing the spell to have like an epic natty 20 success OMG.
I thought that was a funny story, but then later when I read the rules I just wondered what kinda house rules they were doing at that table.

>>96495646
>the 2efag once again demonstrates that he has absolutely, positively no grasp of the thing he's trying to topic slide

>>96495659
The module series version is not like he is in the novels though. They vaguely resemble each other, kind of like how space marines stats in the war game vaguely resemble the lore counterparts, but are completely different in scope and power.
Raistlin in the novels is one of the smartest and eventually the most powerful wizards in the world, with all sorts of weird powers.
His game stats, on the other hand, are pretty tame in comparison. Chances are, people here have played characters with higher intelligence than him, and not been heralded as super-geniuses.

>>96495704
A novelization with some considerable changes though. It's very far from a 1:1 account.
Most adaptations tend to do this, kind of like how the comics/anime of Record of Lodoss War is very, very different from the Replay, though they still shared most major story elements.

>>96495782
True, but back in the day they made a great deal out of that gully dwarf story to show how the novels came from the game. Sort of "you've read the books, now play the game and experience these kind of stories yourself!!!1!one!"

>>96495636
I know enough to say that Dark Sun is best described as
>Know how OSR has apocalyptic population mechanics? What if that was followed through on as a logical part of the entire setting
Basically the entire world is fucked to shit, magic is for the most part illegal, metal is rare and weapons are made of bones, water is rarer still, dickwizards run all the major cities, Psionics are more common than mages, ect.
You'd have to change very little mechanically to run an osr game in Darksun, maybe make food count as treasure since fundamentally the setting is very, very treasure scant and survival is, in and of itself, a victory.
It's actually a pretty banging setting. Just ignore anything metaplot adjacent and make it your own.

Oh also, time to throw a flashbang into the thread that not even our resident troll can compete with.

Rajaat is essentially Yakub.

Think about it.

>>96495605
You're pretty fucking dumb.
I mean, in a lot of ways, but fuck man, bakeries are not in bread; bread is in bakeries.

>>96494878
Nou.

>>96495809
>they made a great deal out of that gully dwarf story to show how the novels came from the game.
That kind of feels like the "Based on a true story" thing they put in front of movies, that then make quite liberal changes, to the point where even completely fictional stories have more truth in them.
Even The Conjuring starts out with "based on a true story".
People fly in that movie.

Have any of you run or played in Arden Vul? Was it fun, overwhelming, anything? I would love to hear stories and opinions.

>>96494412
I really would like to actually write down session reports for my games. I keep track of a ton of data but I've automated a shit ton of that. It always felt like I should write it down while it's still fresh or else I'd forget different parts of it but doing that right after session feels like such a hurdle. I need to find some way to convince my players to do it but they're lazy fucks, even the writers among them.

>>96495886
Got to you, huh?

>>96495964
To be honest, I looked at it and almost instantly tapped out. I'm sure it's great and super developed, but the level of wordswordswords made me nauseous.

I think that autistic systems analysis guy is doing an extremely detailed review of it that's almost as wordswordswords as the product itself, though, that's almost guaranteed to have a more informed opinion than I do. He usually produces some great insights.

>>96496049
A guy in one of my groups takes copious amounts of notes, and by notes I mean he never looks up from his notebook and is writing down a novelized version of events right in the middle of the game.
I once asked to take a look, and it was the most skewed interpretation of events imaginable, with his near-silent character actually being the wise protagonist and leader of the party.

>>96496069
The scent of you shitting yourself? Yeah, it's pretty gross.

>>96496069
THAT'S your response?
Wow you are dumb.

>>96495964
Arden Vul is a portion of my mega-dungeon... I've only read the first little bit of it to get an idea of what's in there, but my players are nowhere near exploring in that direction, so I'm not worried about it yet. They're still about two regions over.

>>96496069
He's too autistic to understand anon.
Which is a shame since I rather enjoy insulting him, chinless wonder that he is.

>>96496083
That's fucking hilarious. I'd take that since at least something is being written down. Then you've got the great moments if someone else in the party reads it later and remembers that it wasn't like that at all. Mostly you just need a small bit of info to get people to remember things. The most I've done is when a character dies or retires I have the players write a small thing that I then post in the Discord channel for that. Even this small bit lets me go back and chuckle over some of them. This was the TPK for one of my groups in their very first session.

Jacktheratrix, the Reciter
>He thought he grew a spine, but then it snapped in half.
Thallin Carnelis, the Arcanist-Guardian
>All flash, no substance. Died trying to be as good as he looked.
Salazar Sintor, the Tinker
>Found his courage at the same time a dagger found his brain.
Louie Burnside, the Man-at-Arms
>His back broke under the weight of carrying his team.

>>96496166
Put a graveyard in your game.
See if anyone digs up the graves.

>>96474953
You know what I find the most interesting about this campaign?
Reading through it? There's not a single death in it.
OSR has this Morg Borg-esq miasma around it about how it's totes hardcore and PCs drop like flies. If that were true then surely people'd give the DM in this no end of shit for being too gentle.
But reading it through you can tell the DM is being even handed, the encounters are randomly generated and the players are playing smart constantly to avoid putting themselves in situations where they might get fucked on.
I mean hell, there's a moment where they peek through a keyhole, see what's on the other side and immediately go 'No. Fuck no' then sneak off.
It's a fascinating peek into what OSR is really like, beyond the memes that everyone comes out with.

>>96496275
It's not a very OSR game though. He even uses fate points. And ACKS is also barely OSR in general. Its even got proficiencies taken out of 3.5.

>>96495568
Boy I struggled to find 10 things that were improvements or at least had a point

>>96496295
Don't fucking argue with him.

>>96496275
>there's a moment where they peek through a keyhole, see what's on the other side and immediately go 'No. Fuck no' then sneak off.
Isn't this just a great example of OSR gameplay? The players carefully gathered information, assessed the situation, and made the call to get the fuck out of there.

>>96494804
>That makes sense. the +3 is essentially an extra HD of HP, but not extra fighting capacity
No, say 4HD+1 it means it saves as a 4HD and attacks as a 5HD

>>96496301
Why is everyone scared of triggering this autist? He can't actually do anything.

>>96496303
Frankly the entire thing is. You can constantly see the players weighting their options, scouting ahead, giving up risky opportunities and so on. Seeing the list of things/opportunities they missed/didn't go after at the end was also pretty interesting.

>>96496326
Just leave him alone.
There's some things he's very sensitive about.
Seriously. Be kind for once.

Lads, is 'faction play' actually good advice for dungeons? I've heard it brought up but only by the same screaming faggots that think combat is a fail state. While players should be allowed to interact and converse with monsters if they choose to is it something worth thinking about before they bring it up?

>>96490630
>>96488764
If you have posts earlier than the '04 Trent (revival renaissance or otherwise) please share them. The history of the hobby if of keen interest to many of us here.
>>96488259
It doesn't shit on 2e but it also doesn't include it.

>>96496295
How quickly the worm turns from 'There's no right way to play OSR, it's just a vibe, UwU' to 'this game was played incorrectly, Miss! Miss! They're not playing properly! >:(' when he thinks its to his advantage.

>>96496358
Unfortunately I'm never going to be kind to him anon, because he is not kind to this thread or anyone in it.
He doesn't get to call Pls no bulli when any time he gets a chance he's first to put the boot in.
But I'll leave it at just the one sneering comment since you asked.

>>96496392
I was talking about being kind to you. Even though you really don't deserve it.

>>96496400
Well in that case, how about this instead; go suck a syphilitic, warty cock until you die of the fumes I suppose.

>>96496358
Oh wow. Is he actually actually retarded? Fuck, my bad.

>>96496358
>Just leave him alone.
>There's some things he's very sensitive about.
>Seriously. Be kind for once.
No, he's explicitly admitted he's trolling because he's "bored". >>96493325

He has no life and no friends and no hobbies, which is something I *can* have sympathy for, but the fact that he chooses to dedicate his life to annoy people means that the world would be a better place if he got into an accident and died.

>>96490884
Me. The JPs were really on to something with those early replays and subsequent novelizations.

>>96496380
>players should be allowed to interact and converse with monsters if they choose to is it something worth thinking about before they bring it up?
Yes, because it goes both ways. Remember that you generally have to roll for reactions from monsters. So it might be the monsters who initiate a conversation, so you should be prepared to improvise and/or have a general idea of the monsters' goals.

>wight box funded on ks

Great. Another non-functioning dogshit game that isn't even worth playing will be arriving in a year to clutter and slop up the game space.

>Two types of posters in the thread
>Those talking about content that's actually been posted, systems, ect
>Those sneering and trying to pick fights with anyone who makes the first kind of post while never contributing anything themselves
Gee, I wonder who the problem posters are, that's a real mystery.

>>96496443
But can you play a Wight supremacist in it anon?

>>96496083
That's some funny-ass shit Anon.

>>96496443
May I ask what you think is "non-functioning dogshit" about it? I am sceptical and suspicious of pretty much everything that comes out, but I haven't looked into this one specifically yet.

>>96496380
>Lads, is 'faction play' actually good advice for dungeons?
I can honestly say that my dungeons have improved a ton after I've implemented two simple concepts: all dungeons must have multiple entrances and exists (even small dungeons need at least two ways to enter and leave), and it's alright if the party doesn't find all of them immediately; and all dungeons must have dwellers of some kind that the party can talk to if they want. I am also a big fan of mindless monsters, like undead, who will fuck characters in the ass, but being able to either murder or team up with the goblins or kobolds or whatever just opens up some options, and that's important.

So yes, I think faction play is interesting and important. Not for *every* dungeon, but for all meaningful dungeons that are bigger than 5-6 rooms and/or that have several levels.

Also remember that reaction rolls can be useful. Not sure if the goblins are hostile? Roll the dice and see what happens!

>>96496083
If the character ever retires, make it canon that he goes on to publish his diary and becomes a famous, borderline legendary adventurer because everyone believed everything he wrote.
No need to ever acknowledge the specifics, just do it for the chuckles.

>>96496275
>there's a moment where they peek through a keyhole, see what's on the other side and immediately go 'No. Fuck no' then sneak off.
I mean, this is really the purpose of the lethality there is in the game: to encourage players to do sensible threat assessments and use guile and tactical retreats instead of charging facefirst into everything.

>>96496083
did he do it as a gag, like that's what his character thinks is going on or would tell other people if he ever spoke? Or was that his sincere vision of events?
I know it sounds weird, but people can be weird.

>>96496439
I err toward monsters in a dungeon being hostile by default but you raise a good point.
>>96496443
>Hates thing
>Shits up the thread by bringing it up unprompted anyway
What is your motive exactly?

>>96496326
because it shits up the thread and it's always a re run. It's not fun. Even if someone likes seeing people sperging you're shitting up things for everyone else so they're just as bad.

>>96496491
>What is your motive exactly?
Maybe he's hoping for more of the adventures of Chud Wightmale, of Mork Bork thread infamy?

>>96496380
I think faction play is often used as a buzzword so I can see where you're coming from there (combat is a fail state however tbdesu), but PCs being able to communicate with intelligent monsters, barter, threaten, ally etc. is important, yes. I prefer the ease of getting along with dungeon denizens in practice being related to how alien the creature's mindset is, so e.g. it's easier to get along with a Neutral Magic-User than an Evil Dwarf, who is easier to deal with than goblins who are basically crazy from a human perspective, and they in turn are easier to cope with than bugbears who are insane AND malevolent, but even they're easier to handle than some absolutely unhuman intelligence like a huge spider from the Astral plane or whatnot.

"Faction play" in the sense of having explicit "teams" in the dungeon which are at odds with one another, enacting plans and warring and so on, I think is overrated and often artificial, however. I don't like the way factions work in Stonehell, for example.

>>96496301
>Urgh, he's talking about content that people actually like, posted to the thread that's so the ick
Are you done with your faggot mean girls act yet or do you want some more time to finish working yourself to climax a little more samefagging?

>>96496433
We're literally talking about you.

>>96496545
>I don't like the way factions work in Stonehell, for example.
Can you elaborate? Please.

>>96496589
It's just stuff like "the kobolds run a market here which is neutral ground for the hobgoblins and orcs who are otherwise enemies" and blahr blahr. Basically this kind of shit that mirrors overworld relations just makes the dungeon feel like a giant underground mall to me and I don't like it, I prefer stuff like "a tribe of kobolds lives in the set of rooms marked 11" and there isn't some other set of sentient monsters they interact with all the time, rather this is just their lair and if they fight anything it's the same wandering monsters that get up the PCs' asses.

>>96496661
I always hate faction play in dungeons. I don't know why, but it's something that has always gotten on my nerves. And it's my own fault, to be honest. I just can't wrap my head around "Group A hates Group B, but is okay with Group C who hates Group B... And now the players are gonna go in there and interact with it." And I'll be honest, ever since the very first game I've played it's always just been "Players vs Groups A, B, and C" regardless of relationships.

>>96496474
Cheers. I'll keep that in mind next time I'm putting a dungeon together.
>>96496545
>combat is a fail state
You and I aren't playing the same game.

Is it time for people to not understand what "fail state" means again?

>>96497016
NTA. Are you itching to go on a sperg rant in which you misapply programming jargon to D&D to try and rationalise what's ultimately an oversimplified, misleading and borderline FOEGYG mantra?

>>96497083
>misapply
Don't blame me if other people use programming jargon and then you get all bent out of shape because you (and frequently they) don't know what it means. Or do, you can shoot the messenger if you like, I can't stop you being a faggot

>>96497083
>Are you itching to gomon a spergy rant
>Wheredoyouthinkyouare.jpg
>>96497406
lol

Used this map tonight. The PCs delved into a hidden temple beneath the library of Ghendarthic Engravings deep in the swamp near their hometown. They hoped to find a watersource that could enhance their magic. Indeed they found such a thing but only after fighting a shit ton of slimy orcs and their mage masters. It was a bloody running battle and some of their henchmen nearly perished. I inherited a level 8 campaign from a DM who needed a sabbatical and I have to tell you mid level play OSE is pretty fun. The Wizard dove into the pool headfirst and is now being tutored by a tentacle monster.

Next session is going to be a tussle with some giant ants using a map I posted earlier. I love Dysonlogos.

>>96497406
>"Technically..."
Oh you're a pedant, better than the usual actually retarded trolls. You're annoying but I'll allow it for now.
>>96497504
>I inherited a level 8 campaign
Wild. Where his notes good or did he just explain it verbally.

>>96497832
>You're annoying
>but I'll allow it
Very reddit of you.

The only harm done by "combat is a fail state" comes from people not understanding what "fail state" means, and the only way to fix that is to tell people.
I mean, if you have a time machine and can go back and make Matt Finch write "combat should be your fallback, not your first instinct" or something like that, by all means do so, but you're sure as hell not going to erase that phrase from the internet now, especially not by sitting around here being pissy at me.

>>96495416
2E is a very good system, simplifying a lot of the needless complexity of 1E while maintaining the simpler easier to learn from presentation of BX.
If you fetishize 1E, you're gonna hate the changes 2E makes to it (XP values, exploration times, d20 for morale), but none of that is really big enough of a deal for an even half-way proficient referee to work around.
That all said, most 2E content is backwards compatible to BX, which is the better classic D&D system.

>>96497832
Not really. I have to build everything from scratch.

>>96497856
>simplifying a lot of the needless complexity of 1E
Can you point to any examples of this? All I see are "here are five different options you could use" everywhere, which is not "simplifying" anything.

>>96497847
I always felt that it was pretty obvious how it was meant to be taken, there are cool combat options and combat illustrations for a reason. But I guess I shouldn't assume people online can follow context clues.

>>96497887
Yeah, it's not that esoteric.
And pretty much all the misunderstood meme phrases about OSR make sense when you understand the context they originated in was "D&D" and especially "Modern D&D vs old D&D," with 3e being kind of the king of the hill at the time.

>>96497856
2e has the sexiest game books ever printed. The hardcover reprints are just pure class.

>>96497877
You need the DMG to make a player character. Some will say its to ensure you don't make characters without oversight, but they're wrong. It is just Gygax's cocaine fueled purple prose at play.

>>96497887
The fact that the 'osr as vibes' crowd deliberately interprets it wrong doesn't help any either.
>>96497872
Kek. The tables lucky to have you.

>>96497920
Always preferred the 89 printings for 2e
Considered picking up the reprints until I saw they weren't using it

>>96497931
>Gygax's cocaine fueled purple prose
And your real problem is exposed! Gygax wrote at a college reading level, with the expectation that his readers would be intelligent and educated, and that makes you feel bullied

>>96497877
nta
16 times as many weapon vs AC values in 1e as there are weapon type vs armour type in 2e.
59 weapons x 9 AC = 531 in 1e
3 weapon types x 11 armour types = 33 in 2e

>>96497982
Eh, too many to memorize either way, that's a "look it up on the table" thing which makes no difference to me

>>96497991
>You've given an example but it doesn't count

>>96497856
Since this appears to be in response to a genuine question froma newbie I'm going to violate the taboo on feeding the trolls and say: Anon, this guy I'm replying to is an out-and-out troll. He's just saying this to fuck with you and the rest of the thread because he knows 2e doesn't belong in here. It's easily the worst edition of D&D and not worth playing under any circumstances, simply because for every possible application there's some other edition that does it better.

>>96498045
>It's easily the worst edition of D&D
You accuse someone of being a troll and then you write that?

>>96498055
NTA, Even 4e has more fans than 2e.

>>96498016
NTA, you are literally supposed to write these things on a table on your character sheet. Arguably 2e makes it worse by using THAC0, which while not as complicated as it is made out to be there are no longer tables and matrices to refer to and copy down, removing most of the math from the situation. The character sheets just have you list your THAC0 anyway, no room for attack tables.

Yeah there's fewer weapon vs AC modifiers to remember and the AD&D table is borked to begin with, but 2e's modifiers aren't that much better.

>>96498087
I was hoping he'd point out something better than that, 'cause maybe I'd use it. But "the table's got fewer things on it, but it's still too big for you to memorize it" is really nothing to write home about

>>96498087
Oh my god stfu

>>96497963
>The fetishist reveals his ugly head
He didn't write at a college reading level. He wrote a technical manual when he was supposed to be writing an instruction manual, and if you can't understand the difference you aren't smart enough to continue this discussion.

>>96498079
Except I can land a game of 2E at my LGS without even trying but can't get anyone to play 4E even if I pay them. My anecdotal evidence, coming form my lived experience, is more real to me than yours.

>>96498152
Cool, go make a 2e thread, all your friends can post in it

>>96498079
I don't know, I know people who play and like 2e and I've only seen memes online about playing 4e. Obviously this is anecdotal evidence, the best type of evidence.

>>96498153
the only time anyone ever makes a fourE thread is to discuss why it failed

>>96498157
Sounds like a Firefly fan convention. Now compare with the last 2e thread

>>96498153
someone said 2e is less popular than 4e, they get responses that aknowledge they're not that invested in the topic. Why would you get mad?

>>96497963
NTA, a how-to guide (the DMG at its core) is hardly the place to get verbose or engage in creative ramblings. I understand the charm of finding random morsels of wisdom encrypted in High Gygaxian hidden away in some random paragraph of page XX, but there is a reason we advise n00bs to start with B/X (and I think it has to do more with Moldvay than with a bunch of extra rules many DMs ignore/forget to apply anyway).

>>96497991
They're "optional". There's your simplification.

>>96497991
>too many to memorize
>>96498131
>still too big for you to memorize
1e is a little larger than I think is worth memorising and I never did but some of us used to memorise attack matrices, stat blocks for dozens of monsters, entire spell descriptions, just because we used them not because we sat down to do it. The 2e table is 82% 0, +1, or +2. The only other values are -2, +3 ,and a single +4. It might not be something worth memorising but in term of memorising things it's on the right side of easy.

>>96495373
>despite being Conan but taken up to eleven
Meh, when everyone is Conan no one is.
There's better settings to run around as a Cimmerian in.

Small addition to the discussion of faction play. Here's a tiny article that gives a usable formula for complex dynamics between factions. You could use this for dungeons too.

>>96498679
Very cucked to tell everyone to just carbon copy Dune and file the serial numbers off. There have got to be better old-school approaches to political game and faction game.

>>96498079
Even if 4e did or does your rebuttal is that more fans equals better?
>5e is better than every other edition of D&D because it has more fans.
That's your argument.
It's a stupid argument.

>>96498045
Correct.

>>96499005
It's clearly just meant as an easy actionable example rather than something you are suppose to do every time.
Also
>just carbon copy Dune and file the serial numbers off
If it's good enough for Star Wars it's good enough for your table

NEW THREAD
>>96499456
>>96499456
>>96499456