Thread 96484125

Challenge edition

Previous thread: >>96473861

>Legacies:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/

>HH 3.0 - Complete gofile - All Books:
https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N

>New Edition, to a great wailing and gnashing of teeth:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/2.0_Tactics/General_Tactics

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics

>Thread Question:
What's your preferred gambit?

>>96484125 (OP)
>Thread Question:
>What's your preferred gambit?

I am Alpharius.

Tell me, why shouldn't I make a knight army of just 5 knight atrapos

>>96484183
>Tell me, why shouldn't I make a knight army of just 5 knight atrapos
You like getting games?

So going with the "brutes boosted by cybertheurgists" idea form last thread, which of the daemon command choices would you say fit best? Hierarch is a melee beatstick, but Harbinger has a totem. I think we can ignore the harbinger's special rule, unless you really want to deep strike those brutes. But the totem alone might make it worth it. And how do you feel about the dominions? Malevolent artifice fits thematically but it's dogshit, so I'm thinking nurgle to make them unkillable. Aflame looks like a meme

>>96484183
Because the atrapos is lame. Use something more interesting.

>Finally finish planning out my army
>Start building and painting
>Suddenly I want to get some Solar Aux allies
God damn it. I'll get some for alternative list options I guess.

>>96484183
Because your dick would fall off from having too much sex, and it gets hard to make tactical decisions with someone glued to your dick 24/7

>>96484160
It's so weird that it is both shitposting and a legit actual answer now

>>96484208
Go nurgle.
Bring a unit of nurglings.
The problem with the hierarch is why aren't you spending an extra 100pts to be a sovereign?
Harbinger as your default command is fine, you want your brutes to regularly be line 2 or 3 and that's much easier at wp9. Also consider corblax to lead the 2nd unit of brutes.

>>96484183
>fleshcel
>not titancel

Come on anon, you had one job, it's called MACROextinction for a reason

Although honestly, now that I think about it, I know mechanicum like making Astartes look retarded with their cries of "oh, how could I ever dream of fighting my brother" while the magos is penning the dreadnought raper 9000, but even I feel it's a little weird that they have a knight chassis designed to kill their own god machines before the heresy.

>>96484248
>their own
Titans and titan analogues in general.

>>96484246
I was thinking of them as an allied detachment, meaning no high command slots, and one of the brute squads will have a mech character attached for shenanigans. Why nurglings?

>>96484213
based

>>96484183
Atrapos is peak knight and my fav, but I wouldn't do more than one. If it's yours too, one special one is more fulfilling than spamming. Unless you want 5 because "stronk", then you'll never go through with it anyway.

>>96484248
He's saying a regular infantry is saying something so disagreeable, the knight pilot is willing to use Macro protocols overkill against it, despite it being an inefficient use of resources. Against a Titan or Knight-class enemy, the Atrapos pilot would be like:
>Hmm I see, I see. Stay still while I lascut you

>>96484248
Nah they're meant to kill anything big in general. Impractically large gun turret? Send in the Atrapos. Tyranid-analogue xenokaiju? Atrapos. Have to bring a newly discovered knight world into compliance? Atrapos (orbital bombardment would ruin the stuff you want to steal/repurpose). Newly discovered DAoT relic got corrupted and is now shitting out self-aware Titans? Send a whole maniple of Atrapos. Newbie Princeps lost contorl of the machine spirit and now an angry Warhound is ripping your manufactorium a new exhaust port? A couple atrapii (atraposes?) will cut it into easily-retrievable chunks so you can put it back together after lobotomizing it

>>96484283
Lancer is peak knight and always will be. Atrapos is try-hard lameness and should be erased from existence.

>>96484369
>Can't even afford a full shield, has to settle with only the frame
>Calls other knights lame
Your lameness is second only to the retard baby warlord knights

>>96484248
what, did you think the martians weren't blowing each other up over petty bullshit before the emperor showed up?

>>96484369
>hates the based atrapos
>likes the retarded knight that can't even afford a full shield and uses a giant lance designed to puncture infantry like a dunbass Toothpick
Holy shit I haven't seen taste this retarded and contrarian than the sedivalle faggot

Okay the sedivalle fag is worse, but you're in the same ballpark

>>96484264
Nurglings infiltrate and explode on death.
Allied detachments have a prime command. So you can take a sovereign it just doesn't unlock detachments.

>>96484235
I know right, it's great.

So, the dust settled. What are the basics of Dueling CQC, anons? The argument between Seize or Finisher seems like the argument between straight and curved swords

>>96484456
Right, but the whole point of taking a command slot guy is unlocking the brute detachment

>>96484476
If you have a -i weapon you pick finisher, if you have an at-initiative or +initiative weapon you pick finisher.

Isn't it weird that a Delegatus unlocks another Apex detachment, but an actual extra Praetor doesn't, and actually costs you a Prime? By "weird" I mean "a Big Fat Mess".

>>96484476
You need EW to be good.
Ws6 is minimum.
You should be ap2.
Critical hits and rending hits are great.
Everyone loses to vulkan.

>>96484498
That's because the second praetor is not there as a master of a legion, he's there on a "special assignment"

>>96484498
You really don't want prime high commands giving apex detachments.
The ally system is already so easily abused.

>>96484484
If you want to unlock a detachment take the herald to lead a unit of brutes and hand out wp9.

If you want a beatstick to kill anything short of a primarch bring a sovereign.

If your low on points and this is a fun flavourful add-on to a marine legion take the prince.

If you want a beatstick to lead a unit take samus or corblax.

>>96484248
that's not too crazy, I mean the triad ferrum morgulus were having turf wars with each other on mars for thousands of years during the age of strife. Not to mention that the mechanicum in general is extremely schismatic at the best of times

>>96484498
As >>96484507, put it, it's really in the name
One is there to DELEGATE command of special forces, one is there because you were touched as a child and demand to have more herohammer

>>96484476

I've found characters that have at least one seriously useful gambit of their own tend to short-circuit this in a useful way, especially if your character has the lower base weapon skill. The Myrmidax is not going to stop meltagunning you before the strike step, the Div Libby shrugs at losing Fblow, turns on powerscaling vision and axes you on a 2+. Malagra priests especially have a meaningful response to being put on the back foot and losing FBlow, which is to boost their WS and Init to the stratosphere as a kind of bootleg parry-and-sieze combo. If your character is dependent on a single gambit for their damage output, like a div librarian fighting a higher-WS character, they are very vulnerable to their enemy deciding to Feint repeatedly and just statcheck them while they try to hit on 5s or what have you.

In general, crits are great, especially for lower WS characters because you want those 5s/6s to really count. If your enemy drops to 1 wound, consider Flurry instead of Sieze if you have a comfortable Focus lead, it's probably made the difference for me a couple of times.

EW(1) on 4W space marine characters is less protection than it first appears, because a charging enemy can boost their hammer or other D2 weapon to D3 with finishing blow and take that character out with two solid hits anyway. Seems much better on W5+, Abby is pretty swole.

>>96484476
I only know it for IW, which is run Pert in and then use his gambit to have a Glaive or a Cerb unload into the poor sap fighting him.

>>96484548
Desu I feel like real meta breaker will be when forges of Saturn comes out and people start have to worrying about WS5 T6 4++ 3W beef slabs with S8 AP2 D3 Crit6+ banhammers, or +2A S5 AP2 D2 axes at initiative 3, and suddenly thunder hammers ain't looking so hot anymore

>>96484548
Malagras are unusable by virtue of having to footslog on their own. Can they even join any unit in the book, or board nay transport that isn't specifically tagged for them to use?

>>96484593
Now imagine a saturnine command squad + praetor buffed by a biomancy librarian as they charge in. Toughness 8 terminators.

>>96484593
That squad is so expensive you just treat it the same as any primarch squad.

>>96484601
I didn't want to say it myself because I felt like that tilted the argument too much,but yes a squad led by a Tartaros or power armored librarian (gives them a 2" setup move which is actually a big difference) and getting T8 and either S7 thunder hammers at home axes that hit like lightning claws or S10 hammers if you want to enact some looney tunes action vs land raiders as well will get wacky

>>96484593

Yeah, the Saturnine Praetor is already a big motherfucker due to having 6W and that absurd hammer, I'm surprised I haven't seen him talked about more as a challenge monster just shoved into regular Heavy squads. Screw the teleport transponder, take a normal transport.

>>96484601

They can join whatever they please, albeit at a slight penalty in some cases. They are lacking in delivery systems, though, there's nothing good for them to infiltrate with and although they will happily load up in a Triaros it'll cost you a prime advantage to get some Malagra-tagged Scyllax or servo-bots to go with them, and that unit can't score, which is a pain. You can cast Cybertheurgy before a disordered charge though, so feel free to disembark that triaros, buff up and then go rip some limbs off terminators.

this thread has been scaled trvely

>>96484630
Will they though? Obviously we don't know any point costs, but comparing the % point upcharge on cataphractii and terminator command squads I'm expecting them to be in the 250-300 point range for 3 models with just axes and fists which would honestly be pretty efficient even on their own assuming WS5, 3A modifications to the saturnine statline, and they'd take buffs incredibly well

>>96484593
I would have agreed if I hadn't seen Cata Termies have to make d6+1in charges thanks to heavy and feel very sad and useless when a reposition reaction gets popped.

>>96484642
That's a tonofhoops to jump through and a serious listbuilding cost too.
>they can join any unit with penalties
At that point juststick him in an allied WE despoiler squad, why limit yourself to the WS3 robots?

>>96484208

I'm in two minds about dominion choice for Sovereigns in particular. If you're dueling you want Divination so you can eradicate people with D3 hitting on 2+ at effective init 5, and Telekinesis is good because it gives you a real gun to pin people before the charge and Shrouded 4+ so vehicles struggle to zap you out of the air. Don't need Deep Strike so for pure sovereign fighting you may as well take Ravenous Dissolution

If you don't want to duel you probably want Nurgle for the extra durability, since a S12 greatblade will can-open the heavier tanks and T8 w/ FNP 6+ means you can happily cleave through hammer boys.

For brutes I would be hesitant to make them Heavy unless you're summoning them point-blank with a Harbinger, since techpriests aren't Heavy and Brutes aren't exactly fast to begin with.

>>96484676
I still don't understand why you can't just stick him in a malagra scyllax unit and run him up the board normally desu. It's not like he's heavy or they're particularly slower than anything else, or that you're using the malagra apex detachment ever

>>96484661
With a praetor that jumps up to like 600 pts, just take a primarch and enjoy the ay buffs.
>>96484642
He's got lower initiative and few attacks, doesn't he? Wonder how he fares on a 1v1 vs a cata th praetor?assuming equal WS and a 4+ invuln, he gets about 1 hit in past the invuln, and if the praetor survives it probably kills himback over 2 rounds of striking first, doesn't he? Of course tthere's always the chance of rolling well and plapping him in one turn

>>96484698
Unless I'm missing something, scyllax seem rather mediocre, not really wortha logi benefit. Then again mech gets detachments out the ass and no good targets for master sarge so maybe that's the best use for primes anyways

>>96484676

The allied WE despoiler squad with the out-of-faction character attached can't go in a transport at all, and you have to leave the unit to self-buff with Overcharged Reactors. 100-200pts of Scyllax will do their job much better, they're WS5 MEQ blenders, and 12 Echidnax will do it cheaper and maybe claw open a couple of terminators with their reasonable volume of S8 D2 attacks at Guided WS4.

>>96484704

He loses 1A and is effectively I0 in challenges from Heavy + -3 hammer, yeah, but dear god the damage. First time I rolled this out he won the coinflip for who charged, tanked everything since a hammer wounds him on 3s and then removed the enemy with a single D5 FB crit.
There is also the significant possiblity of thunder hammer guy losing 3W on round 1 and then losing init round 2, or Saturnine guy just tanking two rounds of hits on his 6 wounds, I think the Saturnine guy is going to take it more often than not.

>>96484714
Huh? They're WS5 (might as well have printed WS6 on the sheet desu) T5 models with 4 power axes attacks each that also are basically phase (T) just for existing, and all that when you can get a squad of 10 for the same price as a squad of 5 WS5 Terminators. Their only weaknesses are 6++ melee 5++ ranged invulnerable (let's be honest there's no real difference between a 2+ and a 3+ armor save for retinue anyone targeting them will be AP2), but having incredibly easy access to Ws6 makes up for that.

>>96484513
>You really don't want prime high commands giving apex detachments.
Mechanicum

>>96484727
Fair enough, I imagine over a large enough sample size satrie comes out ahead, though I bet it's close enough that the difference in poinrs makes it nor worth it, especially considering regular praetor ia better outside challenges, while the sattie is worse vs pretty much every target that isn't a vehicle or a praetor/primarch.

>>96484741
Yes anon that's exactly an example of why it would be an absolutely terrible idea to make special assignments give you apexes

>>96484786
Listen, if I want to replace Ursarax's brains with chimpbrains, and modify their vox grills so they can only apeak in slurs, why am I forced to take a nearly mandatory thrall tax and waste my archmagos babysitting them?

>>96484799
Jesse what the fuck are you taking about, you're not forced to stick laecrymata in thralls, you can put him literally anywhere and just rely on overcharged reactors

>>96484813
Yeah but then the lacry trait does nothing

Saw this online, figured you guys would like it.

Lost to the nails seems cute, but it feels like the regular trait, apex, gambit, etc are all way better than the hereticus ones. Am I missing something?
>>96485068
Damn right we do

>>96485075
Being able to just ignore a lot of status shit etc is quite strong.
The fucking rules make absolutely not sense from a lore perspective though.

The more sane marines are better at melee always, while the evil crazy marines are just vanilla, but are IW against status, and it makes them angry and only better at melee in that one scenario. ???

>>96485085
the weird part is it only works on Ld checks, not cool checks. And if you're failing LD checks it's likely you're already missing a chunk of your models

Had some serious shit go on recently and my hobby stalled. Got 10 SA, 10 marines and a Leman Russ all sat around in various states of incompleteness, and no time to do it. Show me what you've been working on to make me feel better.

>>96485068
is this traitor UM? the trophy spikes with impaled head seems a bit brutal for smurfs. looking nice though

>>96485126
The average Ultramarine is more of a violent psychopath than the most depraved serial killer in real life. Carrying a trophy is the least concerning thing they could do.

Does this qualify as "Blanchitsu"?

>>96484502
>Everyone loses to vulkan.
I did have a game against him last week. I didn't realise he was so so much better and above anyone else.
My Horus did go down and Vulkan didn't even break a sweat... and that gambit..
I don't like calling for nerfs, but he really is absurdly overpowered right now.

>>96485210
>don't take a primarch
>no issues
Sounds like a simple problem to me desu

>>96485222
I like playing primarchs anon.

>>96485234
Then you deserve what's coming to you

>>96485210
>that gambit
It needs to be once per game. Most primarchs will struggle to do 3 wounds to him and then he just gets d3 back every round. The worst bit is if you turn off the gambit hell just finishing blow you.

>>96485246
Why tho ? Primarchs are cool. I was just pointing out a questionable balance choice.
You don't like primarchs ? Fine. I didn't like facing "original" HQs all armed with thunder hammers during 2nd edition neither to be honest.
Anyway: balance is important. That's all I'm trying to say.

>>96485288
I have no idea on how to balance him out. The gambit I would like it to be changed competely but even then, a T7,S7,7W with 6 dmg 3 crit5+ hammer that can never be wounded on a better than 3+ with EW3 on top screams too much for me. Even without taking into account his gambit or very good sire rule.

>>96485210
Salamanders are overpowered this edition for the same reason the IF were in HH2: they're the pet faction of one of the designers.
Watch this and pay attention:
>Tale.of.Four.Gamers.S01.E01.The.First.1000.Points
https://gofile.io/d/wMviw4

>>96485208
I like it

I know Kharn being a blender is to be expected, but I'm surprised at how much of a blender he is. He's not even that expensive! I've got a question for WE anons though. Red butchers have their own "bitter duty"-like rule. But there are no characters with that rule? So nobody can join them?

>>96485311
>Can never be wounded better than 3+
I mean, he's T7, were you planning on shooting him with a Volcano Cannon?
>Gambit, sire rule
What do they do? Don't have my rulebook handy. Also what's his WS?

>>96485356
Gambit is +d3 wounds regen at the cost of no bonus to focus each time this gambit is selected.
Sire is basically old stubborn of your army ignore any modifier to ld, cool, will and int during the first turn.
To get 4 prime slots: 4 troops needs to be equiped with forgecraft weapons.

Ah, your butt is mine, gon' tell you right, ah
Just show your face in broad daylight, ah
I'm tellin' you on who I feel, ah
Gonna hurt your mind, don't shoot to kill

Shamone, ah, shamone
Lay it on me, ah, alright

Ah, I'm givin' you on count to three, ah
Just show your stuff or let it be, ah
I'm tellin' you, just watch your mouth, ah
I know your game, what you're about

Well, they say the sky's the limit
And to me that's really true, ah
But, my friend, you have seen nothin'
Just wait 'til I get through

Because I'm bad, I'm bad, shamone (bad, bad, really, really bad)
You know I'm bad, I'm bad (bad, bad)
You know it (really, really bad)
You know I'm bad, I'm bad (bad, bad)
Shamone, you know (really, really bad)
And the whole world has to answer right now
Just to tell you once again
Who's bad?

>>96485356
Ws7, initiative 5 with no negative modifiers on his hammer.
But never wounded on a better than 3+ usually comes against lascannons (or laser variants), demolishers, kratos turrets or other primarchs weapons.

>>96485328
This reminded me how good the sallies unique reaction is as well.

can primarch stats be affected by rules such as phage now?

>>96485486
Yes. Even ld or cool debuff.

>>96485486

Yes, and they're not Fearless. Put a Fear (2) unit or a squad of AL effrit within 12" of the vast majority of Primarchs and apply status (3) and it'll stick well over half the time. Most primarch deathstars seem rather short on nuncio-voxes, so it might be surprisingly sensible to just CC them.

How to we fix Sigismund?

So, what use has an Arvus in Militia and SA lists?
It's too fragile, barely armed and with how flyers are treated in 3.0. the only thing I can think of is to dump a squad on an objective.

Or am I missing something tactical?

>>96485718

What's wrong with Sigismund in the first place? Not choppy enough?

>>96485339

This is the case, yes, although so far there's nobody who can join a regular Bitter Duty squad either, so they're effectively the same.

>was recommended HH over 40k because of rules stability and flavor
>HH 3.0 leaks while I'm buying generic kits
>wait to see community consensus before committing to a rule set or legion
>there is none
>not even on the rescaled armor marks
This whole HH3 episode is teaching me that uncertainty can stun lock my decision making skills and that I don't think I like people.

>>96485075

You're right. But Lost to the Nails isn't as bad as it first appears. The basic trait requiring you to lose a Ld check is garbage, as we all said upon seeing it. The secret sauce here is the Reaction. So, the normal WE reaction is a Once Per Game deal, but the Hereticus one ISN'T, and it enables you to take a unit that's being charged and make them lost to the nails and then countercharge. Which could have it's uses if used on a unit with Impact somewhere. Of course it still has the problem that it's a reactive thing, not a proactive thing like the standard trait, but at least you can force a Lost to the Nails result without it being a completely random Ld check.

Now you just need to find someone dumb enough to charge World Eaters.
But yes. The other trait is indeed worse than the standard one.

>>96485742
No that's pretty much it. Hope you roll well turn 1 and deploy deep outside your deployment zone.

Alpha Legion continuing apace. Headhunter came out looking pretty good.

>>96485742
>the only thing I can think of is to dump a squad on an objective.
That's the point of light flying vehicles?

>>96485794
Play with older rules then, nothing is going to change with those.

Balls of steel and a 5+ save.
What are you working on this weekend?

>>96484369
>Atrapos is try-hard
Not my fault it's finally good. I preordered mine a decade ago.

So what's the purpose of the Combat Force boxes? Are they supposed to be starter boxes or expansion boxes? Are they even enough to play a Zone Mortalis without breaking the bank?

>>96485794
>there is none
You haven't been paying attention

>>96485794
>>wait to see community consensus
Ever tried forming you own opinion, you mindless drone?

>>96486021
Starter boxes yes. They are enough to start playing regular HH 3.0 since there are no compulsory unit slots any more.

>>96485794
>I don't like people
>I need other people to tell me if I like something, or what I should want to buy, and their "consensus" is very important to me

Definitely a tough spot to be in.

>>96486021
>So what's the purpose of the Combat Force boxes?
Discounts on things you were probably going to buy anyways.

>>96486065
But you can't run that mech box without a HQ

>>96485099
You're ahead of me, I can't even pick a scheme

>>96486141
Convert an HQ then.

>>96485099
Those models look nice anon. Hope everything calms down quickly.

Have a DA saturnine praetor that I recently finished. Also got a dual gravis plasma cannon castaferrum dread done, and wanna start on the saturnine dreadnought after having seen what D2 plasma blasts can do.

>>96486141
If you're not building a psychotic tech priest conversion you're not starting mechanicum right.

>>96486025
>>96486056
>>96486072
Literally isn't any consensus locally. I'm unfortunately choosing "a side" of some unseen argument by endorsing an edition to play. Here on /hhg/? Depends what time you're on here if people are supporting or hating 3.0.
Also, why wouldn't other group member's opinions matter? Why wouldn't legion diversity play a role? The intent was to be considerate of a budding HH community. It's not NPC behavior to take into account other people's feelings if you're going to have to be friends with them.

>>96486182
Decide what you like, enjoy it with like minded people, fuck the haters. It really is that simple.

>>96486192
Like being new to HH, I'm new to the town. Everyone seemed okay with 2.0 if the group would commit to regularity play. When leaks of 3.0 came out, it wasn't a "2.0 vs 3.0" debate; it was a full blown autism "1.0v2.0v3.0" that drug in some old beefs.
And then seeing anything from irl being mirrored on 4chins, or vice versa, always gives me pause.

>>96486065
>there are no compulsory unit slots any more
Wait, what about the Crusade Primary Detachment? The Combat Force box comes only with about 500pts of minis as well. I don't think many people play such small games, sadly.

>>96486267
They could do a spearhead/combat patrol like game but if that was planned it would probably already be on the roadmap

>>96485208

Nice

>>96486238
Don't pay too much attention to what /hhg/ says, the majority of people here are armchair generals and game designers who never play the game after all.

Honestly, that group kind of sounds like a bunch of petty highschool girls who would rather cause drama than resolves their issues, who won't be fun to play against regardless of what game it is.

>>96486267
Usually people have no problem playing small point games, especially with people who are new to the hobby. If they do have issues with it, they're usually assholes that are not fun to play against to begin with.
Have you tried asking?

>>96486313
I got that feeling too. If I wanted drama, I'd come to /hhg/.
The plan is reading black books/rule books/exemplary battles in publishing order to see what activates neurons. And then play small solo games.

>>96486343
Desu honestly after I finish my word bearers I was thinking of doing an Inquisimunda warband specifically using that one ruleset based off kill team's single player rules so I could have use my 3 armies (blackshields, traitor mechanicum, and word bearers) as npc enemies

>>96486357
That sounds pretty dope. Working up a narrative simulation sounds more appealing than dealing with people.

Rolled 5, 2 = 7 (2d6)

rolling to see if he casts conflagration

Rolled 3 + 3 (1d6 + 3)

>>96486431
rolling his attacks

>>96486436
rolling to hi-
>WS2
yeah nevermind he's missing that shit
>cant get in a challenge and have divination to hit on 2s

>>96486441
>laughs in tainted flesh

>>96486450
no that's what I mean, he can take pyromancy+divination for the funnies, but he cant challenge, he's a sergeant not a champion

you'd need to waste a master sergeant on him to do that

>>96485794
Shut the fuck up. Sit and spin on this for a while.

Rolled 3 + 8 (1d3 + 8)

>>96486455
regardless though I miscalculated his attacks

Rolled 3, 5, 3, 2, 4, 3, 2, 5, 3, 3, 6 = 39 (11d6)

>>96486476
hitting on 2s

>>96485992
>>96485989
Feudal guard sexo.

Rolled 6, 2, 6, 2, 3, 5, 4, 1, 3, 6, 4 = 42 (11d6)

>>96486482
wounding on 3s (S5 vs T4)

can an anon please make as many saves as required? your praetor clearly has a 2+ save

>>96486475
wut

>>96486515
he's asking you to sit on his dick and take it for a spin.

Rolled 4, 2, 6, 1, 6, 1, 4, 3 = 27 (8d6)

>>96486486

Rolling saves

>>96486517
but he said "this" and posted nothing, is he dickless?

>>96486529
It's part of the phrase. You can't see it but he was pointing to he crotch. But you may be right.

>>96486536
either way, seems pretty gay to invite guys to sit on you

>>96486551
yeah, welcome to /hhg/ and we're not even talking about Nightlord fags.

>>96486525
>2 wounds
not bad I guess
alright, slap me back and 1 shot me

Rolled 1, 1, 4, 1 = 7 (4d6)

>>96486566

Rolling for Deflagrate also, first two dice are wound rolls, second two dice are saves associated with those wounds if successful.

Thinking somethin' devious
Krondspire Incarnate as an Infernal Tempest Sovereign

>>96485781
he's too cheap for just being able to slaughter people outright

maybe I should organize a primarch duelling minigame at my local GW

just say that you can use any primarch, the plastic 40k ones can be used as their 30k equalivents (because it's a GW and they're averse to anything that excludes 40k) (except 40k mortarion go fuck yourself I guess) and maybe some other stuff like greater daemons as sovereigns

all using challenges and the gambit minigame to see who comes out on top, with players betting on the winner of each fight before dice are thrown

>>96486455
Oh, lol never noticed that. Personally, I want to port over cephalyx as Feral Warrior + Tainted Flesh militia, with the gimp doctors as rogue psykers and discipline masters and big guys as summoned daemon brutes. The big thing I had to overcome is even with the new stuff, there's not a lot of poses for what would be 100+ model army, until I had the idea of digibashing some of the helmets from the thralls as just a bunch of heads I can stick on aos khorne dudes

>>96486614

He's what 250pts? Seems fairly expensive to me, possibly more than a character of his choppiness warrants.
Hell, he goes even with your average Arcuitor and the Arcuitor is 155-170 fully geared, has a meltagun and can throw buffs around for your other units, and for the same price Abbadon is probably scarier in a challenge, more durable outside of one and gives you deepstriking Justies.

>>96486647
I’d love to mow these things down from across the table. I love heresy so much bros. So much room for OG ideas and conversions to explore the imagination and wage war on a beautiful table.

>>96486689
The spirit of the game.

>>96484786
I'd say Mechanicum are in dire need of extra apexes. That's what I keep hearing their players say

>>96486766
>Mechanicoomers want to have more apex detachments than everybody else gets
Still the WAACfag army it seems.

Clarification. Ferrus Manus was trying to implement Conversion Fields into the Gordon Terminators like the Ecclesiarchy do with Rosarius and Iron Halos, correct? That seems like a mediocre thing to have trouble with for a Primarch.

>>96486689
I have a big heap of Napoleonic minis leftover from my Turnip28 army, I’m thinking of rolling them into a Heresy militia, but they’re quite small.

>>96486821
>Vat-grown soldiers genetically altered to be as strong as regular soldiers whilst having a smaller stature to make them smaller targets in a firefight
Boom done.

>>96486647
Fighting a horde just for a narrative day would be so fun

>>96486848
>itty bitty muskets hit as hard as a lasgun
It is kind of funny, I suppose.

>>96486865
Laser pointers hit as hard as lasguns lol

>>96486872
It’d also be cool to build a big zombie horde. The ultimate expendable troops for Iron Warriors.

Land Raider Carriers are much smaller than I expected.
I was expecting it to be as big as my Redeemer in 40k.

>>96486172
>these are starter boxes
>but you can't start without an HQ
>passiveaggressive.exe

>Victrix releasing new WWII German heavy weapons
Were the Blood Pact around for the Heresy or were they first contacted in the Sabbat Crusade?

>>96486889
That's the second reason I don't like them. The first is that their interior is rubbish compared to a land raider phobos, and the thirdnis how thencupola is useless between the tracks like that

>>96486916
There were quadrullions of humans in the galaxy, the idea of "militaritic and disciplined khorne worshippers" is not unique enough to be a one off occasion even before the heresy >>96486916

So when's the rest of 3.0 releases?
Isn't it a bit... Empty, for a new edition?

>>96486958
What's missing?

>>96486958
Gotta stime out the releases to keep people engaged.
Which is actually true not just a lame buisness model.

>>96486958
It isn't? We even got the militia and daemon rules already, which took like a year after 2.0 launched.

>>96486965
Is that a genuine question?

The stuff they have shown/teased would be a good start, then the resin range to plastic.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/m11ujimg/saturnine-your-questions-on-the-new-edition-of-horus-heresy-answered/
>Are there more new models on the way?
In short, yes. There are loads. What’s more, this edition will accelerate the move from resin to plastic – making the jump is a mix of classic units (such as the MKII Crusade armour) alongside never-before-seen units. And it’s not just the little stuff. Did you see that new tank? It’s not the only one…

Alright, here’s a retarded question, anons. Where do I find the lists of Militia Special Weapons and Militia Heavy Weapons? I feel like a fucking numbskull, I can’t find it

>>96486987
Have a little patience you fucking zoomer. The new edition has barely been out for a month and a half. If GW did all the new releases right after launch, you'd be complaining about the lack of new releases during the rest of the new edition instead.
It's also a smarter business move, most people don't have the kind of money to buy 20 new things within two months. Spreading the new releases over a year or more means more sales, because people don't have to pick one thing first then forget about the rest because the hype died down.

Stupid bitch.

>>96486766

One Apex is fine for Mech, they could just really use a way to get Retinue and Elite slots that aren't the Apex det or Logistical Benefit since the army is pretty committed to taking its own ones rather than the generics. No jump pack Magi is fucking them over far more than anything else, since 3e missions really care about being able to get those scoring models onto points round 1 and their transports are far too expensive to use for the equivalent of rhino-tacs.

>>96486992
Holy shit I’m retarded. I found it.

>>96486992
You're quite genuinely dumb, anon.

>>96487016
Didn't read, I'm allergic to retards.

>>96487067
Must he tough, being allergic to yourself. And being illiterate of course, like all zoomers are. Go ask grok to read it to you or something.

How do you want your Blackshields, Anons? Closer to 2.0 where you get a couple of rules that effect wargear, stats, or FOC, with a standard army list, or more like 1.0 with a full customization suite and a broken up army list with some unique units?
What do you think we'll get? Given that we're waiting so long for them I figure it'll be more like garbage the latter.

>>96487047
I accept myself.

>>96486342
>Have you tried asking?
Yes, there is only a couple of HH players in my area and they play mostly 3000pts games. Most of them are busy family men so whenever they have any spare time for hobby - once a week at best from what I have been told - they want to use it for big games. I totally understand them since I'm in the same boat but I prefer to play multiple short games rather than a single big one. Maybe I should buy a Mechanicum Combat Force box and play one of the alternative wargames with it? I don't plan to build a big HH army as of now - I simply like all the minis included in that box.

>>96486890
Get like 4 HQs with the SA one and none with the other two

>>96487016
I'm expecting the plastic breachers to be released alongside the Zone Mortalis rules.

>>96485208
Bo. This is a primaris sword

>>96486978
Unironically need to be drop fed les content over time to keep their attention

>>96487435
Wait til you realize the plague of battle passes in video games is not for the company's benefit, it's for yours, to keep up long form engagement for player queue health. The fact that it helps stretch out content for more dev time on the next update is a secondary reason though.

What would you want out of a bat rep channel, anons?
Narrative recounting?
Seeing every turn in full?

>>96486784
>more apex detachments than everybody else gets
Of course the Astartes would know about privilege. "I get several detachments with Elites slots and Primes, don't you get those?". You know nothing of scarcity.

>>96487530
What Heresy Era does with voiceovers and effects and little introductions and exits and none of the players' commentary along with the actual battle reporting.
I don't care about seeing the actual players' reactions or comments or anything. Once they're in front of a camera they lose all sincerity and it's little more than improv, just like critical role or whatever that DnD group is.

>>96486811
He was doing postdoctoral research whilst being a general in a galactic crusade at the same time he personally battered monsters with a hammer. Maybe he was going to figure it out when he had some free time, but he was just a bit too busy?

>>96487556
>That planetfall speartip
Good golly, I think I want to get some MK2 Assaults for my IW when they come out to sometimes try a list that isn't a bunch of terminators.

>>96487589
That detachment is the only reason I might play 3.0, even if it would be 50% of the army points-wise.

>>96487556
>Wants more apex detachments than everybody else, complains about legions
>Posts auxiliary detachments
>Elite slots that are hard locked to one or two specific units
>Additional apex detachment at the cost of giving the opponent more VP through a second slay the warlord target

Well well aren't you a disingenuous little cunt, you fucking retard.

>>96487556
Gee anon I think that might have something to do with mechanicum apex detachments being along the lines of "+1 W and +2 S for 27 models" or "make 6 vehicles AV14" or "give 27 of one of the most undercosted units of the game a 5++ invuln on top"

>>96487615
What legion do you play? How are you thinking of equipping them?

Well, are they right?

>>96487830
I do not know nor care who "they" are, but they are wrong. Won't elaborate further, but you can count on me being objectively correct.

>>96487830
thought tooth and nail to not have DA in C, and they did aknowladge that there is a difference between playing white scars the way a lot of WS players want to play them, and how should play WS for them to be efficient.

>>96484369

All of you are inferior when compared with the best knight, comically large flamethrower and punchy fist. Now with Fear (2), for even better spooking.

It's too bad the new knight bits won't be included in 30k. A knight with a giant plasma cannon or huge conversion beamer-dildo would be cool.
I'm gonna make a knight with the plasma and call it a paladin.

>>96488184
Why not? Are they a new cawl invention? I could easily see them getting in through journals

>>96488215
I just figure they won't. Probably some anal reason about muh 40k unit.

>>96487587
... Maybe.

>>96486958
probably as soon as GW feels confident again that any retailers will touch heresy stock after the saturnine debacle

>>96488719
They already do, the kratos is constantly being sold out within a day over here.

I knew I should have gotten one before the end of 2.0, when absolutely nobody wanted it...

>>96487830
How the fuck did they get DA up to there?

>>96488766
A frankly hilarious amount of copium

>>96487830
>word bearers
>not in D
Wow I didn't think it was possible to be this wrong

>>96487830
>AL
>C tier
what are they smoking?

>>96488215
the weapons sure but the void shield whatever would need very carefully worded rules or it'd make dealing with Kratos etc even harsher than it already is

>>96489157
Just make it a pavaise? Good for the yeoman.

>>96487830
What were they rating ? Armor Color scheme ?
No way they placed WB or DA this high while rating AL and RG this low if they were talking about rules and units.

>>96488247
There's always Legendcies.

>>96489184
If they never legacied warlord and reaver carapace options or the castellans they won't give us this.

>>96488184
To be added to the knights armylist in an upcoming tactica journal, now pay those 60 bucks please (:

Is there anything that stops you from reacting with multiple units to 1 enemy action?

>>96489182
The amount of people who people think RG don't really have a trait because it turns off within 18" is crazy. They'll say that and place all the niche legion traits above it that only active in a more narrow scenario. This list cant be including units because IW are B on a good day. AL and RG units are so abusable.

>>96487830
Top tier by far: TS, AL, Salies
Rock bottom without being close : DA, WB
The rest falls in between and are more or less balanced between each others (with NL and RG leading the pack i'd say)

So long as Thousand Sons are still on top

Why are they trying so hard to make me think Eidolon was ever a competent commander?

>>96489252
how NL of you

>>96489202
>castellans
That's why 1.0 was the best.

>>96489281
Anyone who claimed otherwise got hit with a +initiative TH

Tank scheme concept. Trim will be brass/tin. Where else should I put white?

>>96489281
Well he was the most competent commander in the entire EC legion. Which admittedly is like being the most serious person of the clown posse.

>>96489334
Paint the little side doors white so they look like mini fridges and the boys can pull out some cold ones mid battle

It bothers me that the mockup doesn't have the subtle patterned markings otherwise common on RG plate.

>>96489369
Remember Corax hates T*rmies, so RG would take no pride in wearing the fat suit while your dad calls you a filthy bigger

>>96489369
Of all things saturnine feels like something that some legions just wouldn't use.

Night Lords had skin crochetting lodges where they sat around to do arts and crafts with body parts and taught each other techniques

>>96489476
Meh

>>96489476
What is that supposed to be?

>>96489476
Since ligma got plastic mini whirlwinds I need them for HH.

>>96489481
Ein Wirbelwind der Space Marines.

>>96489476
What could this possibly do to be different from the scorpius

>>96489502
Phospex missiles

>>96489502
7" blast, ap5 probably

>>96489508
GW doesn't do ammo upgrades anymore

>>96489519
Aside from all the other phosphex weapons?

>>96489502
Larger blast, lower strength but way cheaper in points, chance to apply a status effect. Whirlwinds have always been the ideal artillery to clean out light chaff infantry.

>>96489502
Cheaper and more varied missile options. Scorpius was a purpose built siege weapon. A comparison could be, say, the M270 vs. the TOS-1. The former has wide variety of munitions types while the latter is built around one type of warhead.

>>96489528
What are you talking about GW stripped out the siegebreaker unlocking phospex, he just has a detachment for artillery now

>>96489576
HH players can't read

>>96489576
Go back to school, because you clearly don't know how to read lmao

>>96489576
Reminder that whenever you see someone say "oh no one's going to play 3rd, everyone hates it" on here, 50% chance it's one of these stupid motherfuckers

>>96489576
Think he's talking about this.

Why are Blood Angels players so rare?

>>96489619
because BA are lame and the only cool thing about them, Death Company, isn't a thing in 30k

>>96489619
Without the black rage and until recently sanguinary guard, 30k BA is a downgrade in flavor and unit variety and serves to introduce retarded shit like jump pack dreadnoughts or assault cannon nipples

>>96489606
More like 80% at least.

>>96489502
Maybe a single shot weapon that doesn't have blast but has significant damage and S?
I don't think we have anything like that atm

>>96489502
The scorpius is useless while this will be useful.

>>96489637
What's the percentage of people who don't say anything, just play 1.0 and 2.0?

>>96489666
0%, retard. Then they're not on here and not shitting up the thread.

>>96489666
Very low. Most 1.0 and 2.0 players I know of are like vegans, they will tell you about it unprovoked constantly.

>>96487585
Heresy Era is so fucking good. I literally can’t do any other channel now-why watch boring slobs roll dice when I can have story and flavor!? Their only fault is it’s so slow but it’s completely understandable. Think they said they’ll have a new one tomorrow actually
>>96487830
Not in the slightest and I can tell whoever this is contemptible by that 1/10th headshot
>>96489619
I ask myself this too. I assume a combination of: assmad melee is more WE in 30k, gold is a bitch to paint, and no Death Company which isn’t the *only* cool thing about them like one anon said but is a big one

Also dread jumpers and nipple cannons rule and everyone should have more

>>96489674
Yeah, how dare someone come to /hhg/ and talk about anything other than the latest and greatest /hhg/ rules and lore?

Think we'll get an official Master of Descent model?

>>96489780
Pretty sure the point of journal units is to not have official models for them

>>96489404
Corax hates the Deliverers and Cataphractii. Tartaros was fine. Though there is no way enough RG survived to use saturnine.

>>96489780
No. It was repeatedly stated that tactica journals are meant to provide people opportunities to kitbash and convert new units.

What faction do I play if I'm prone to avoiding my responsibilities?

>>96489838

In 30k? Ultramarines.

Uh... has anyone noticed that a Moritat with the Paragon of Battle Prime Advantage and some plasma pistols is completely fucking murderous thanks to him being BS6 natively, and upping that to 7 means every single 5 to hit he rolls (across his six attack rolls with said pistols) autowounds at 2 damage AP2?
Which he can do twice in a turn thanks to firestorm?

>>96489724
Brother I'd love if people came and talked about other editions. But no one does. It's literally always "3.0 sucks I'm going back to 1.0!" With no elaboration or discussion beyond how much 3.0 sucks. Literal waste of space.

>>96489854
Moritats can't have Paragon of battle, they're specialist not command. Probably for exactly this reason. (And also to duck challenges)

https://juddsinmongolia.com/2024/06/06/color-symbolism-in-mongolia/

>In Mongolian culture, there are several colors that hold symbolic significance, namely white, red, blue, yellow, green, and black. The “best” color is white and it is used to symbolize goodness, holiness, and positivity. This is why milk tea and other “white foods” (i.e. dairy products) are seen as especially good.

>Red represents fire, strength, bravery, and love.

huh, how fitting for the White Scars.

Man I don't know if I've just finally been indoctrinated or what but God some of the old heads just look so absurdly goofy on the new bodies
(Not mine)

>>96489855
I've talked about older editions, but there's no engagement in such discussions. Either everything's been said a thousand times over or people just want to talk about 3.0.

>>96489881
They look the appropriately sized for anyone that understands that a helmet is not supposed to be the same size as a bare head

>>96489838
DA if you don't want to admit you avoid them
EC if you claim you're above said resplnsibilities
IW if you blame others for your behavior
WS if you steaight up run away from them
SW if you make up bullshit excuses for avoiding them
IF if you beat yourself up over avoiding ghem
NL if you love inserting large objects into your ass
BA if you forget about your responsibilities in the first place
IH if you think you're better off like this and don't need to change
WE if you lash out at anyone who calls you out on it
UM if you claim you know better than to do them
DG if you try to nlameothers for it
TS if you avoid them due to your autistic hyperfixation with other things
SoH if you avoid them due to bad influences
WB if you call others out on doing the same like a hypocrite
Sallies if you avoid them due to bekng busy helping others with theirs
RG if you try to hide the fact that you avoid them from people
AL if you gaslight people into believing that you didn't avoid them and it's already taken care of

>>96489879
Why did you think GW made WS white with red spot colour?

>>96489855
>It's literally always "3.0 sucks I'm going back to 1.0!" With no elaboration or discussion beyond how much 3.0 sucks.
I'm gonna let you in on a secret, anon
None of those people have actually ever played the game

>>96489854
>>96489860

Yeah, you've got to put them in a True Believers squad and apply cybertheurgy if you want the delicious crits, and that's usually too much work for a cheap and cheerful 100pt plasma hose. You can, however, Paragon a Vigilator and have 2/3 of your precision hits autowound for 3 damage AP2, which I think is the only way you should be running those guys.

>>96489879
I really want to go white scars, but I heard painting white is rough, also outriders are way too expensive

>>96489879
>White is superior
>Black is negstive, inferior, insulting
Jagathai, you can't say those things in front of Vulkan...

>>96489881
They'll look better with the pauldrons on, thej balance out the whole thing
>>96489889
A marine's head is peoportionally smaller than a human's, so woth a helmet they go back to human proportions

>>96489898
The same happens with 40k.
I started with 7e in college, but I've never played the ones before it so I have no nostalgia for anything pre 7e.

>>96489860

Oh well, they're still critting on a 6+ at least. Plus Thousand Sons can still slap Corvidae on them and give them Rending 5+ pretty easily.

>>96487530
Heresy Era and the old 30k Channel had the best content. Invest in good terrain, interesting armies, and narrative instead of interviews. I don't want over-the-head camera cringe 40k tournament shit.

Does the salamanders rule ignore poison 2+? It says they can’t be wounded on 1 or 2.

>>96489954
Erm sorry anon actually good terrain doesn't work well for battle reports because things don't die quickly enough
>actual things said by real YouTubers
>ignore the fact that his primary armies are iron hands and iron warriors

>>96489889
This, so much this. The tiny heads, especially on the mkvi is awful.

>>96487954
fluffy WS are dogshit, but if you're a brainlet who enjoys 3.0 you can spam tactical squads and make them B tier

wow so cool

>>96489879
Old GW was a bunch of history nerds, so they may well have read about that sort of stuff when making chapters.
This has also made me want to start a Scars army.

>>96489986
Yep. If the dice is 1 or 2 it always fails against salamanders no matter what. It says regardless of all special rules that set the Target Number for wound tests (aka poison)

>>96487830
I don't even need to take a look at the chart. The fact there's anyone else on the tier with Tzeentch means the people who made it are fucking retard children who can't play the game.

>>96489999
If you ignore fluff, WS are A-tier probably. They can throw multiple terminator squads into melee from like 21-25 inches away on turn 1, even if its totally unfluffy and they're heavy and not normally allowed to rush (by the power of Storm, mutant of wind magic)
With all their extra movement +2" armywide and 12-14" redeploys and weather magic rushing heavies and dreadnoughts +4" and ignores-terrain and Fast(2) armywide from jaghatai and such they can switch their army to whatever sides of the battlefield opponent's expensive deathstar isn't on to dominate each war like an oldschool Eldar craftworlds player pulling a Napoleonic war maneuver.

Their god-speed keeps them on even keel with Alpha Legion, who are A-tier normally only because normally it's really hard to outmaneuver or charge them, but that's not a thing when your White Scars move so fast they can wrap around alpha legion squads or shove them into terrain so they can't have a legion rule (while also having chased them away from all objectives)

The armies they have no chance of ever brawling with (like a Vulkan/Horus Deathstar) you just dance around and waste his time with sacrificial speedbumps and failed charges, while capping the 2 objectives without vulkan on them all game.

WS, like everyone else, have little chance against properly cheesed Thousand Sons this edition, but they have a better time against them than most others. Corvidae's super ultra shooting buffs are less relevant against Scars when they can minimize the time they're getting shot using super mobility to tag things in melee hopefully before they get way too much god-shots off (some of the other anti-shooting buffs like IH -1S don't help against rend) And if the TS player is a TAC list with other cheese like Kratos+Mechanic for 500-600 points, if you've taken weather witches and super-speed infantry instead of landraiders, then his anti-tank and mechanic are just kinda dead weight that won't stop you capping the objective.

>>96489666
Listen Satan, 3.0 sucks.

>>96489920
wrong. All the artwork and 100% text descriptions say a space marines heads are enormous blocks of granite with huge chins and foreheads and rocky balboa brows and they look like an entirely different species from human beings.

Space marine heads on tabletop are entirely incorrectly sized. The heads are too large to fit inside of their helmets, literally.

>>96489999
How did they manage to mess up bikes two editions in a row? Does -1T make that much of a difference on whether bikes are functional vs display pieces.

>>96490185
marge is as dead as the heresy

>>96490188
Why do you think so many marines have naked heads? Its cause they cant get their helmet on.

>>96490174
>>96489999

So, uh, did I pick a bad time to ditch AL to move to Scars?
I haven't played 3.0 yet.

>>96489898
actually there's 10-20 pages of very elaborate clear explanations why 3rd edition is fundamentally broken. Terrain being the worst they've ever done in 50 years, 1 point of weapon skill still being godmode, all-or-nothing visibility where you either see all 20 members of a squad for seeing 1 hair or you see 0 members, 1d6 charging, charge bonuses +1A removal, sweeping advance removal, volley shooting to shoot twice by failing charges intentionally, volley shooting actual pistolsl making units fail charges and lose the game, precision reducing even primarchs to toughness 4, wound allocation gimmicks, basic weapon imbalances, line/vanguard bullshit, the terrible challenge system with only 2-3 real gambits and 5 fakes, broken deepstrike with zero scatter and no melee ever, 4 turn game length, dual wielding removal, removal of all rerolls oversimplifying even rare special weapons so there's only 3 melee weapons in game (the basic useless, the fast so-so and the slow kaboom), end of turn objective scoring, loss of warlord traits and rites of war, brainlet auto-charges from all transports without counterplay, removal of night battles, the silly stratagem points system where you buy several desk jockeys to stand around in the corner doing nothing so your army gets magical powers from desk muppets, ridiculous space marine emotion system which only needed 2 stats instead of 4 and still has no relation to the lore, imbalanced rending rule and critical hit rule automatically triggering breaching and automatically triggering shredding entirely ruining the half-assed attempts to write rules for the game (basic rend and basic crit skipping the wound phase should use basic-AP of the weapon and never shred. If you want a SuperRend and SuperCrit rule that activates Breaching/Rend, those should be a separate more expensive rule, rather than something given to every model with Tzeentch or High ballistic skill)

There's more but you're just intentionally a retard.

>>96490262
>actually there's 10-20 pages of very elaborate clear explanations why 3rd edition is fundamentally broken.
Ok, link them then.

>>96490255
Scars are fine if you aren't dedicated to trying to run 100% bikers or some fluffy nonsense. And you can't do primarch duels, as Jaghatai is F-tier with Corvus Corax, but you can run like hell and just play football trying to score 2 circles on the ground.

They're not one of the shit-tier armies like Dark Angels or maybe Word Bearers.

>>96490272
you have already been spoon fed, man-baby company shill. Zero people fell for your scam.

>>96490211
That's not the real problem with WS, the problem is that their trait benefits slow units the most and fast units the least. So you're incentivized to take the exact opposite of what they'd take in the lore. If a unit moves 10 inches base, 2 inches is a 20% increase. If a unit moves 4 inches base, it's a 50% increase. Bikes are laready getting where you want them to go regardless of trait, but Cataphractii terminators get a massive boost from getting 50% more movement

>>96490262
>Thinks re-rolls being gone is a bad thing
Opinion discarded lmao. Could expand, but you're not worth the time.

>>96490218
kinda interesting that both the Plague Marines and Iron Hands conform to the Chaos Warriors practice of fusing their biological body to their armor plating so they can never take their armor off but it provides them superior durability and protection. I guess we're lucky Ferrus Mannus didn't land on Terra and have to drown the kaiju monster in india, then there would be two nurgle factions.

>>96490295
I acceept your concession of defeat. As with all shill manbabies, you never stood the slightest chance of winning any argument.

>>96490262
>rather than something given to every model with Tzeentch
>model with Tzeentch
Spotted the 40kg tourist. Go back and troll in your own containment board.

>>96490274
Oh.
Oh no.

>>96490281
Anon, the burden is on you.
You claimed that these "very elaborate clear explanations" exist and are 10-20 pages long, then when asked to produce them, you fail to do so.
That points towards you not actually playing Heresy and being a tourist.

>>96490331
20 tactical marines at 1000 points is fine. People who say bikes are bad in 3.0 have no fucking idea what they are talking about. Bikes have very good firepower that is very mobile for real cheap. They might not be able to claim or contest objectives, but with how cheap they are it's no issue to fit some infantry into the list to score whilst the bikes do the heavy lifting.

>played some 1e
>try out psyker daemons bc I've never played them back in the day
Wow these fuckers are actually terrible at killing anything. I have no idea how they got such a bad reputation when they can barely hurt power armor and brutes just get splattered by dreads in return.

>>96490335
He is very obviously a tourist, just stop feeding the troll.

>>96490352
WE need more pics of that dread

>>96490262

What exactly are "wound allocation gimmicks" here beyond, say, sniping the guy with the big special gun first?

This is obvious trolling but I will say I've been pleasantly surprised with how many of the gambits I've found an organic reason to use. Guard Up is a total waste of space and it still leans more heavily on Finishing Blow for my liking but I've used all the other generic gambits to good effect besides the withdraw-from-challenge one, which I really didn't expect when I first read the system.

>>96490359
It's my buddy's and it's very good at murdering daemons.

>>96489619
Cause assault marines look shit

I’d play a footslogging BA list

>>96490331
jetbikes and fast units are like candy or cake, you can have a little slice of cake once a day after eating regular things the rest of the day. But if someone's mealplan is 80% cake 20% food, they are gonna become familiar with a hospital quick.
1k isn't where the game's played. So if you fill the other points to reach 3000 with normal meaty strong fighters and strong shooters instead of 2k of more stupid fast bikers, you might be okay. The other downside of scars is if you don't have a recaster/3d printer friend, those models are way overpriced.

What were they thinking by making cavalry unable to score? Did they forget about WS or other cavalry heavy armies? Bizarre

>>96490308
kek

I goon to the emperor

Do we have libers in proper e-book form, or only in photos still?

>>96490477
Canonically, he used his powers to look like whatever he wanted/needed at the time. So every depiction of big tiddy Empress is canon

>>96490485
>Do we have libers in proper e-book form, or only in photos still?
You can't buy books libers anon.
The best we have is a scan that's had the text converted to be searchable.

>>96490398
I love those demons anon.

>>96489619
30k blood angels no longer represent the berserker army that's hip in 40k with death company, and particularly after 3rd edition ruined deepstriking melee entirely and removed drop pod assault from the game and nerfed much of the jump pack stuff too.

Yet blood angels can't pivot into a generalist take-all-comers thing as they also have zero buffs to shooting or tanks to play the dignified-professionals thing of non-rager BA from 40k (as any blood angels with bolters are absolutely pathetic compared to Imp Fists with bolters, Iron Hands with bolters, Thousand Sons with bolters, Ultramarines or Alpha Legion or RavenGuard shooty army, etc.)

Sanguinius is also pathetically weak, C tier if being nice. Raldoron is rather boring and generic. Have a tiny roster compared to stuff like Sons of Horus and not much flavor available, even a Tzeentch army leaning into more softcore psykers avoiding overuse of corvidae has more interesting options.

The BA special weapons do nothing in 3rd edition (would rather have Salamander or IH or WS or DA or SW or UM or RG or NL weapons) - the aflame thing is just adding -1 leadership, the most homosexual and lame of all debuffs. It's fun to actually kill enemy units, not just once in a while have them take a few steps backwards in an edition without sweeping advance so they never die.

BA lore is boring. 10,000 pages of "sanguinius looks at his men and frowns, he knows he's gonna be dead" That's not a wide playground of interesting characterization for your own normal blood angel unit commander. They have nothing but emotions, whereas alpha legion has actual trickery, RG has actual stealth, WS has actual speed, IH have actual toughness and tank-healing, etc.

Also, with bad game mechanics and mediocre lore and being gay blonde hookers, the ornate decorated armor is the only thing going for BA, and that's too expensive for hobbying and added trim is a punishment not a reward for ordinary painters.

>>96490286
The edition punishes cav alot already too.
Not scoring at all is super frustrating.