Thread 96487291

The spicier the better. I'll start to get the ball rolling:

MTG, DnD and Warhammer are actually good for the hobby. They get new people started in this hobby and they keep the trend chasers contained and away from the rest of the hobby.

Appealing to the normie masses is a necessary evil in order to keep what you love afloat. Even if it comes with the negative baggage of doing so.

Generals are good for /tg/.

>>96487291 (OP)
>post truths
Resin and metal are actually pretty good material alternatives to plastic.
3d printing will one day become the standard. And may even phase out hard plastic as the tech gets better.

>generals are good for /tg/.
Oh that’s a real one we’re not ready for.

>>96487291 (OP)
>Appealing to the normie masses is a necessary evil in order to keep what you love afloat
Except we don't really require businesses to stay afloat in order to continue our hobbies. There are plenty of free games already, and miniatures manufacturing has become cheap enough that you don't really need to be a big business to do some. Plenty of GW's games have survived decades without GW's interference, for instance.

For mine: a huge proportion of RPG players would be better off playing board games. They either don't want the freedom to interact with the game world however they want that a GM provides, or just want a loosely structured storytelling framework.

>/tg/ related truths that /tg/ isn't ready to comprehend yet
you shouldnt be posting here if you havent at least read the books. they're free online, its really not a high expectation

>>96487291 (OP)
good how? any new person who joins has to join somewhere by definition, and the biggest thing is generally the most accessible regardless of what it actually is. So again, how are they good? MTG and WH suck ass and are prohibitively expensive which are both handicaps to getting new people in, not advantages. they're bad things kept alive by size and inertia. they perform a function that is good, but they do it badly and should be replaced.

>>96487337
>Resin and metal are actually pretty good material alternatives to plastic
until you have to glue them, paint them, carry them, be exposed to their chemicals or leave them in a hot car

>>96487291 (OP)
>MTG, DnD and Warhammer are actually good for the hobby.
Negative attention is better than no attention. That's why /tg/ is filled with contrarions. D&D is a fine game, whatever.
>Appealing to the normie masses is a necessary evil in order to keep what you love afloat.
We are normies. None of us is special. The need to believe yourself special is... well, see above.

>>96487291 (OP)
DND isn't bad because it's a bad game, it's bad because it does absolutely nothing to teach game masters how to game master. That alone makes it a god awful patient zero for the hobby.

>>96487425
>until you have to glue them, paint them, carry them, be exposed to their chemicals or leave them in a hot car
Anon you just posted what the kids say "a self own."
Gluing resin and metal isn't a big deal.
>Carry them
You just admitted to lacking the strength to carry a box of metals. Be thankful a username isn't attached to your posts in these parts of the net.
>be exposed to their chemicals
Washing resin and metal isn't a big deal.
>leave them in a hot car
A hot car will melt even hard plastic.

>>96487291 (OP)
>Appealing to the normie masses is a necessary

>>96488817
do you actually believe that?
Do you sincerely think that you could start doing something with your bro and eventually women will come desperate for your attention?

>>96487291 (OP)
D&D is kind of a terrible starter game but I guess so

>>96487291 (OP)
While monetizing everything can go and often does go too far, it's not wrong for people making these niche games to want to make a buck by doing something they enjoy.

There's no one-size-fits-all way to play or run RPGs, and trying to find one is folly. Narrative.heavy storygames and lethal dungein crawls are both obviously real and tre RPGs, they're both fine as long as they fit a given group's tastes, and spending time and energy arguing about what real RPGs are about is silly.

Not literally everything is political even in the current year. If you're the first one that starts talking about politics in a given discussion, then the problem isn't the other side making you think about politics, it's you.

>>96488817
If your point of posting that pic was to show you are retarded nogames you succeeded.

Changing the dice your RPG uses doesn't make it better than D&D.

>>96487291 (OP)
>generals are good for /tg/
This is common knowledge though.
They mitigate the amount of slide threads are made and keep the autism mostly contained. This place would be worse without them.

>>96487544
>Gluing resin and metal isn't a big deal.
Until you have to pin a lead gun barrel or fix a broken part, then yeah its a big deal, and plastic cement doesnt work on either material so you have to deal with superglue
>>Carry them
>You just admitted to lacking the strength
I can lift 200 lead minis. But i dont WANT to. Its not a flex to carry around that much weight, its just inconvenient and needless
>Washing resin and metal isn't a big deal.
You know what is? Breathing the fumes from a printer or the dust from sanding it. Modern life has enough ways of giving me lung cancer and i dont need more
>A hot car will melt even hard plastic.
Yes, but resins soften at lower temperatures, so your spears will warp sooner and worse than on a plastic mini

>>96490154
Okay I see now.
I assume most people here are retards but your explanations made your post make more sense now.

>>96487291 (OP)
>They get new people started in this hobby and they keep the trend chasers contained and away from the rest of the hobby.
If these people are so awful that they need to be contained away from us how is it a good thing that they're coming into the hobby?

>>96490575
They’re retard nets that act as filters. The problematics stay in the net and those that would be good for the hobby go through the net. I think that’s what op is getting at.

>>96487291 (OP)
thank you for your wisdom guru

>>96487291 (OP)
>MTG, DnD and Warhammer are actually good for the hobby. They get new people started in this hobby and they keep the trend chasers contained and away from the rest of the hobby.
By forcing people to be funneled through the hobby via paypiggy oriented games (especially MtG and 40k) you ensure that they will be sunk cost locked into playing only those games primarily, if they ever break out. Most won't. Many more will be faced with the unwashed paypiggy masses, as well as the trend chasers, collectors, secondary market scalpers, power gamers, plebbitor faggots, and all the rest of the worst the hobby has to offer, hate the time they wasted interacting with those people and their communities, and never return, believing the hobby has nothing else to offer them. And who can blame them when the largest, most successful, most popular, most well-known games in the hobby are filled with subhuman cretins, retards, faggots, and paypigs?

The games themselves are varying degrees of fine and acceptable, but it is a truly awful thing that the gates into this hobby territory direct people right into some of the worst communities that will misguided, poorly teach, and frustrate most new arrivals.

>>96487291 (OP)
>Generals are good for /tg/.
That's the case for all the boards, really. Or you get /b/ (/pol/) shit on them which is entirely off topic. You can see this on /v/: Actual fucking discussion (bar a few generals) is on /vg/ or /vr/ and never on /v/.

>>96487291 (OP)
The lore is just made up to make you buy models. IT ISNT REAL AND YOU ARE WASTING YOUR LIFE MEMORISING AND ARGUING ABOUT IT.

>>96491913
>fiction isn't real
Wow, what a revelation.

>>96487337
>3d printing will one day become the standard. And may even phase out hard plastic as the tech gets better.
Currently it's just not the case as the material is way too fucking breakable even on the most flexible or tough resins. You ship it, you'll get breakages, no matter how much you try against or how sturdy the model is. Much of the problem has to do with couriers being morons as well, of course.

The other problem is scalability. Making 10000 cast/injection plastic minis is much more affordable and scaleable than making 10000 3d printed minis, which requires much more human hands and input along that way. It's a much less automated process as every single models requires a significant amount of post processing work from print. It's why 3D printing is currently not a thing in the retail market and probably won't be until the process requires considerably less post processing steps from built plate to packaging.

>>96491913
I halfway agree because I feel like the lore/canon is like a guideline or suggestion, and people who sperg out over a minor detail being wrong are annoying as fuck
Would love to run Dark Heresy because I like the system but my prospective players are all giant lore spergs so maybe not

>>96487457
>We are normies. None of us is special.
Do not think this as a 4chan browser. You unironically think differently if you use this website over any of the mainstream social medias regardless of the reason.

>>96488817
>comic made by /v/tards who don't realize the tl;dr is "Marketing did it"
Yeah good point

99% of all shitskins do not want to play fantasy games, regardless of how many brownoids companies clumsily shoehorn into the artwork of their games. If you’re a white guilt redditor, just take solace in knowing that you gave nogs a big warm gay welcome into your hobby but they just weren’t interested. Accept that trad games are a white culture thing, along with all the fantasy they depict, and move on

>>96487291 (OP)

Lore shouldn't have to be completely concise or even consistent to appease the autists. People don't agree about the significance of stuff that's going on today(which recent president is responsible for the impending Great Recession II etc) and tons of websites from the 90's/00's are gone forever. So imagine how much disagreement and lost information there'd be about stuff that happened centuries or millennia ago.

>>96492545
I'd honestly want more of them to get into it just to keep them off crime

>>96487396
>a huge proportion of RPG players would be better off playing board games. They either don't want the freedom to interact with the game world however they want that a GM provides, or just want a loosely structured storytelling framework.
God damn, this is so true. People will often balk and screech at you when you point this or something similar out, too, and accuse you of being a "storyshitter" or a theater kid or some other description that's meant to be insulting. I don't say any of this with ego, I truly don't have emotions about some anonymous person saying something like this to me on the internet. I wholeheartedly believe you are correct, and that they would be better of playing board games. Maybe something like Gloomhaven or HeroQuest. I don't even dislike those games, either, that's not a put-down, it's not me saying "heh, I'm the patrician RPG player, and you're the plebeian board gamer." I also like board games. I just know a lot of people approach RPGs like board games, and as a result, end up playing what turns out to be a pretty mediocre game for most involved.

>>96492794
Classic RPGs have a skirmish game origin generally, so are pretty combat heavy to this day.

>>96492806
The issue is not with combat, but an entire approach to how RPGs are played. Thinking and acting strictly within predefined rules, for example.
It's why Dungeon Crawl Classics has the "Mighty Deed." It's bigger than the rule itself. Combined with the dice chain and the frequent encouragement for the GM to interpret things dynamically, it opens people up to an entirely different way of playing the game if all they've over known is grid-based tactics games with a layer of roleplaying over top of them.

>>96487291 (OP)
Contrarianism for its own sake or for some misguided attempt to enlighten people is the stagnation you claim to be against OP.
There is no
>the hobby
as a singular entity or mass. All attempts to describe it as such will fail.
Business models based on appealing to masses become subsumed regardless of artistic intent. All franchises will be rendered into purchasable identities, all identities will be rendered into purchasable franchises.

Generals are good. The problem anons have with them is actual a lack of creative gameplay and engagement in their own lives.

>>96487291 (OP)
>Generals are good for /tg/.
when I open the board and see all generals in page zero it might as well be a dead board

>>96492794
>boardgames
ntayrt
Its much worse. They want the game master to trick them, the way they want to be tricked, into having an adventure story told to them in such a way they feel like its their idea. Its basically small scale project management where you have to keep everyone busy and reward them with various bits and pieces of busywork, letting them say their piece at meetings and the result is generally burnout.
Most boardgame rules are too involved for the majority of contemporary rpg audiences.

If you guys spent less time thinking about people that you make up and just played games you would probably have more fun.

>>96492806
it depends what we call "classic". Some go way too hard like some editions of Shadowrun while others are all theatre of the mind and there's no poinjt of contact with a skirmish game like in most World of Darkness games.

>>96494202
That one hurt me. I am very concerned about being a bad representative of the hobby and potentially dealing with the wrong kind of people in the hobby.

>>96488878
>Started a gaming discord with my friends 5ish years ago
>There are now women in there
>There are now pregnant women in there
>No one plays games from there anymore
>Last post was Kpop relates
Don't know how it happens anon, but it happens.

>>96487291 (OP)
Live actual play podcasts and shows don't actually affect the hobby at all

>>96487291 (OP)
furries and trannies are good for the hobby.

>>96494326
Furries are. Trannies aren't.

>>96487291 (OP)
Splitting off quest to a separate board was a fantastic thing, so at least we still have a board that feels like the good old days

>>96487291 (OP)
>>96487396
Both of you are right, those things aren't mutually exclusive.

And speaking of people who should board game instead:
What I love covid for (other than setting legal framework for home office) is that so many, many people from the three groups I've played in realised they don't really like TTRPGs and are fine playing board games. This way I get the remaining few people still into TTRPGs into a single group and we are having a blast ever since, with full dedication to play and time-table.

>>96493574
>I have autism, please understand: The Post

>>96494317
>t. didn't play anything at all for a past decade
And if we go for being generous:
>Plays 1d3 games over 5 years with his old time buddies, living in their bubble

>>96488817
>Mom look, I've posted this again!

>>96487291 (OP)
It's easier to teach theater kids game rules than it's to teach autismos how to play and behave.

The best vetting process is asking people to come to a regular bar and have a pint together.

/tg/ chimps out against new things purely on a Pavlovian reflex.

Venerating game creators is retarded.

>>96487291 (OP)
Wrong.

I don't want new people coming into the hobby. I want the barrier of entry to be as high as possible.

>>96495916
Pro-tip:
You can just play with your friends.
You have those, right?

>>96487337
I really dislike resin. Its breakable as fuck and a nightmare to glue. The "extra high definition details" are not worth it.

>>96488817
"I have no games, no friends and i must blame the women for some reason"
--- The post ---

>>96487396
>For mine: a huge proportion of RPG players would be better off playing board games. They either don't want the freedom to interact with the game world however they want that a GM provides, or just want a loosely structured storytelling framework.
Good take.

After investing time into learning a bunch of complicated and involved systems, and how builds in the systems work, and keeping up with the errata, I'm sick of it - Most of the time I'm only really interested in doing some structured roleplaying in the settings those systems are for. If I want dungeon crawling then OSR type stuff has basically no builds and lets you just pick class then go crawl and bring out your 10 foot poles.

I think for RPGs that aren't dungeon crawls, the way to go is to reduce focus on combat and lean into meta game mechanics that incentivise and reward good improv and narrative co-creation in the themed direction the RPG is going, with intentionally having mechanics that reward leaning into genre convention, and having blank spots in backgrounds, locations, etc. This is onions-coded, but really the best times with roleplaying is when you're doing the same thing as shooting the shit with the boys, except in a more focused context.

Sometimes, your players being on their phones is on the GM. You have to keep them involved and on their toes. If your literally just revolving into
>ok your turn. Roll. Hit. 6 damage.
>ok next, roll. No hit. Next.
Somtimes if your players are board or distracted, it's either a investment issue or you guys need to take a few minutes to let the group chat a moment and get back to it on a lul in the conversation. Be more interesting then the reels they flare watching. Be creative in a situation and turn to "role play combat" instead of number crunch when you can. Lassoing a wyvern to a boulder and pushing it off thw cliff is much cooler then roll-to-make-number-big.

>>96496769
How do you generally tell if it is bad players or bad gm?

>>96495336
Nou

>>96487291 (OP)
>appealing to normie masses is a necessary evil in order to keep what you love afloat

That's really weird, considering we were doing just fine for the last forty fucking years during which the hobby I love was the subject of a moral panic and subsequently socially ostracized.
Gates are made to close something in and something out. They need kept in order to do their function best.
Not everything needs to, nor should, appeal to everyone. The only people who think that are the penny-sniffing share-holders who expect infinite growth from whoring it out.

>>96497307
By doing YOUR best, you can tell if the horse will drink or not. I genuinely try to revolve the world around the characters, and not jist have it be my my movie im forcing you to act in. If you give them the ability to be creative and they just dont do anything, then they want a video game, not a narrative experience. But when you just crunch numbers, your robbing the players and yourself. Play a boardgame at that point.

>>96497446
>I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I guess the zeitgeist is to pretend we should shut in... do I belong already, guys?

>>96496769
Someone give this guy a cookie.

There is a self-styled "league" of GMs in my area. They make semi-regular TTRPG events with open tables across the surrounding cities. I went to their last event in mid-August. Randos at the table, there are literally three different generations at it, too.
And most of the time, people don't even pay attention what the fuck the GM is saying... because the GM doesn't give a fuck himself. He had a ready railroad to pull and exact solutions to deal with. Naturally, the players got a decision paralysis if they want to get into a combat grinder, so I side-stepped them by chatting up the guards instead. GM stumped, but told me to roll for it. Rolled way above the needed threshold, so he went with it, and that finally started to get the other players engaged. By the end of the scenario, everyone was doing their shit (dismantling auto turrets and streaming tutorial to others was the techies' best improv idea probably) and taking the scenes apart, while the GM was still in "roll d20, threshold is 16" mode.
Why the fuck register yourself as a charity organisation and set up a bunch of people to run games, if you can't handle a simple open table, but waste time on music list or a notebook worth of notes for a 4 hour gig? I just don't get some people in this hobby. Especially in situations where the table is either fed up with your game or ends up trying to take it apart just to get things interesting, yet you can't get a hint anyway.

>>96497524
Do you have any actual refutation and reason or do you just not like what I said and can only attack a strawman?
I'm willing to give you another chance to have an actual dialogue.

>>96489074
I mean.. it literally does. Normal curves are inherently superior to flat statistical distributions for every use case except truly random chance.

>>96492505
No, you don't this different. This place is just reddit with slurs. Anybody who thinks they are special because of their preference in social media website is actually retarded.

>>96497570
>Do you want to have an argument about something that was already tiresome back in 2012?
Let me reply to that with another question: were you even able to read back then?
Because there is a solid chance this bullshit is older than you and it kinda reached the plateau circa 2010. The irony, of course, being that it was 3.X crowd chimping out, despite it's them that were the newfags brought by extensive corporate marketing, but somehow they felt to chimp out that others are playing and, god forbid, different stuff than 3.X

tl;dr go fuck yourself, you fucking child

It's okay to have fun playing D&D 5e. It's a good system and I'm tired of pretending it isn't.

>>96494267
>potentially dealing with the wrong kind of people in the hobby.
You literally post on tg, bro. We are the backwash of the hobby. The only people left are the people who can't make it anywhere better.

>>96497446
People dumb nogames like you call normies have been coming into the hobby pretty much from the start. This hobby always had all kinds of people in it. If "normied" were not coming in the hobby would died long before your underage ass found it.

>>96497596
Right, so you've chosen to just tantrum off and try to appear the bigger man for it.
Concession accepted. Least you were considerate enough to not waste any more of my time.

>>96497620
>nogames like you
Baseless bait and immediately discarded. Not even gonna finish your sentence bubby. Come back when you can talk like an adult.

>>96492505
This place is just reddit with more slurs anon, please get over yourself Mr. >"Le I'm a free thinker :^)"

>>96493587
>He doesn't browse the Catalog from the start
pleb

>>96497650
ah that's how you are supposed to browse it? neat.

>>96497623
Calling a post you did not read bait is only going to make you look retarded.

>>96487291 (OP)
Nerds used to be weird and lonely. The modern nerd is weird, lonely, and either racist or sexist. Or they just hate everything for the sake of it.
Shit dog, if our elder basement goblins could barely score, I fear what will become of the next generation of grognards

>>96487291 (OP)
>Appealing to the normie masses is a necessary evil in order to keep what you love afloat.
Not really, you can have a successful business catering to a small customer base. You just really need to know what those customers want and deliver. I doubt the people who make shit like picrel, for example, plan to try and go mainstream.

>>96487457
>We are normies. None of us is special.
Holy shit tone it down man. Ain't nobody ready for that level of self awareness. Turn it down like 3 notches.

>>96487544
>A hot car will melt even hard plastic.
It won't. It might warp some larger bases though. Not that any of this matters. Resin and metal minis are perfectly serviceable.

>>96497735
>mother is just the daughter but superior in every way
Many such cases!

>>96487291 (OP)
>Generals are good for /tg/.
to an extent. currently there are too many of them,we're not /v/ level yet where they had to create a whole containment board for the stuff, but every day we inch closer.

> Post /tg/ related truths that /tg/ isn't ready to comprehend yet.
segregating /qst/ out of /tg/ was the worst decision taken by the staff because it drove out and away all of our drawfriends for couple of years, only until a year or so ago did some come back.

>>96487291 (OP)
that's a lot of battered wife style cope, anon

Everyone complaining about normalfags flooding the hobby in 2015 was right.
TTRPGs are total shit now and people look around and wonder why and act all surprised, while many of them watched the flood of "new blood" into the hobby in 2015 and got excited.
Fatt Coville and Ginny Di ruined the hobby by making it accessible to casuals and poisoning their mindset with their storyshitter nonsense.
Freakshit races made the game into even more of a fucking joke.
Non-D&D RPGs are also getting the spillover now.
Attrition is a natural part of TTRPG groups, so you WILL need to find new players at some point. I say this as someone with multiple long-term groups. The mindpoison will seep into members of your own group too, even if you knew them for years, they are very likely more impressionable than you.
I know everyone on /tg/ plays with the same 4 based guys from their based college and their based tradwives cook them gourmet meals every session and they all make 200k a year from bitcoin and AI remote job coding, so they're immune to this. But many players aren't.
GG unironically was the last chance to keep this hobby being infested with retarded shit but people just wanted to get cute hipster girls to play D&D and they just got a bunch of fat trannies instead.
Now my FLGS is flooded with trannies and yours probably is too. "But I just don't go there anymore" okay enjoy trolling the gamefinder threads on here for some soulless roll20 slop.
These problems barely affect me compared to the people who tells me there's no actual problem, while they cry about having no game and accuse me of having nogames when I play 3x a week. Pure projection. I really don't fucking care. The hobby has gotten shittier and I've been lucky to evade most of it personally. And no one listened in 2015 and they act surprised things went to shit. Stop it. You have NO FUCKING EXCUSE.

You caused this through your inaction.
You were told exactly what to do.
You willingly did nothing.
Now suffer.

>>96498020
okay schizo

>>96498020
>t. retarded nogames faggot,

RPG is a weird hobby perfectly fit for people who never finish anything. The "game" tries to be a lot of things at the same time (and one poor bastard "GM" is responsible to "balance" the impossible plates): a satisfying story with arcs and climaxes for every protagonist/player; a balanced game with challenges and interesting rewards; a simulation of a fictional world with its own lore and canon that grows organically with realistic and interesting consequences for each player action; a ruleset that mechanizes fairly every possible situation within a modular system that uses dice to keep things fair and still "game-ish"; a hobby within a hobby of props-making that includes stuff like miniatures, maps, gizmos and arts; a improv theather experience with acting, voicing and emotion display; a metagame of "dominance" group dynamics through scheduling, deciding what system, what world, when is the session and who's coming; and plenty other stuff.

Clearly, RPG tries to be a lot of things, without ever commiting to the best version possible of one of those things, that would require to drop the rest.

Its not a game, a novel, a play, an art group, an writer's group, a acting group, and most certainly not the first thing sane people would choose to do with 6 hours of freetime each week.

The worst, most unsatisfying waste of time ever created. Only pretentious n'eer-do-wells who never finish what they start nor commit seriously to any arts and crafts would engage so deeply with a pointless hobby. We keep playing just because after all this time, the sunk cost is too big -- its a hobby designed to entrap the greatest, most pedantic, arrogant and pretentious lards.

>>96496769
Partially agree: if people don't pay attention, it may be because you're boring. But looking at your phone is still a choice, even if you're bored. Help the guy improve, and consider leaving if he doesn't.

>>96487291 (OP)
The set standart of 7 dice should be questioned and it were for the better, if D14s, D16s and D18s were commonly available.

Also, the most important thing about dice is quick readibility and all those artsy dice are nice to look at, but ultimatively not very useful.

>>96498121
Just don't do the parts you don't like my man
It's that easy

>>96498020
I was a teen around GG but I get your point.
Is one of the solutions not playing dnd or is it more so proper player vetting?

>>96498020
I don't really play TTRPGs but if the guys I know currently playing Runequest and Ars Magica campaigns are anything to go by then it's exactly the same as wargaming; where nerds cop friendly fire from normshit playing stinkbeasts simply because the former happen to be largely well adjusted and reasonably successful. I wrote back then that the people that spend all that time bitching about normalfags are closest to being ones themselves hat's strictly in terms of their engagement with the hobby, and I also confidently wrote that I know the games I play will not be affected. Not only have I not been proved wrong, but clubs and interest in historical and alt wargames are growing just about everywhere I play or keep tabs on. Game stores have always been for the desperate, you just need to notice the smell that so many of them are soaked with, if you can't pick up new players from other interests and friendships you develop as an adult then you're doing something wrong.
>I really don't fucking care.
You care enough to write all that shit in the tone of a camp villain's speech. Like I said I am a wargamer primarily, but I could poll my mates, and I don't think somebody who sees no problem in being an embarrassing flamboyant cringetard is going to be able to accurately assess things.

>>96498121
>We keep playing just because after all this time, the sunk cost is too big
Just start a thread about dealing with burnout, no reason to write all that other retarded projecting faggotry.

>>96498003
How is op wrong on each point?
I agree the generals being good for tg because we’d be swamped with way too many 40k slide threads without the general. Even if /40kg/ is a mess.

>>96497623
>"Look mate, this is going on probably longer than you are alive, so let's just skip it, k?"
>"HA! INTERNET VICTORY! And time saved, I guess?"
... I'm still satisfied with the final outcome, too, if that helps you.
This bullshit is really, really tiresome and the end result is always the same - getting even more tired with it, and then a few more years passing and you, too, realising it's a tiresome bullshit, but then it's too late to come back to the discussion that was pointless in the first place.
The bottom line is, however, always the same: WotC opened a floodgate with 3.X by actively targeting with their marketing the most dysfunctional, autistic and retarded people imaginable, and then, since 3.X drones quickly became the biggest, most concentrated group in the whole hobby (friendly historical reminder D&D was virtually dead prior 3.0 and wasn't even in top five most popular games), tho got it into their heads that they should now gatekeep from evil outsiders. And the only outsiders were them themselves, but oh well. To put it into zoomer-friendly terms: we've got culturally enriched by 3.X crowd, and late 00s and most of the 10s was them chimping out and a whole lot of newfags coming in the middle of it and trying to fit in, parroting their idiotic bullshit.
So every time I see this >>96488817 picture posted, I just chuckle about the irony of it, but then I know it's going to be 3d4+1 asshats thinking this is true.
But arguing about it is utterly pointless, since it's a fake argument, ironically made by people that are the disruptive assholes they want to gatekeep from. Add to this /tg/'s contrarianism, and here we are

>>96498020
>All this bullshit
So from which board did you crawled from, never-game?

>>96498121
>t. played a few times and actually liked it, but too mind broken by being terminally online to admit to enjoying things, or else someone could call him cringe
I'm still glad you are coming to terms with your situation, mate. And I'm being 100% serious

>>96499034
He's got some points there. There are for some reason players who insist on minis and having "character arcs" and writing session reports and those things are either unnecessary or just so TEDIOUS
I have no idea why you would want your beer and pretzels elfgame to feel like a day at the office

>>96499376
I'm not questioning the points he's making, because they are valid.
I'm just pointing out he comes from this weird place of "I can't admit I like this thing, or else people will call me a nerd/faggot/cringe/yes"

Said that and given your own comment:
Those things aren't mandatory. The whole trick in this hobby is to find yourself the stuff you actually like and enjoy about it and then keep doing it.
Case the point: I consider AAR to be pure idiocy and waste of time... so I don't do that. But a guy I've been playing with for over six years was very much into that shit and for him it was the highlight of each game: he had new material to write reports about. And we just both happened to enjoy playing mini-campaigns under our GM, using always a new, different game. I had my fun from the experiment alone, he had his fun from writing conclusions of said experiments.
To each and everyone according to their taste and preferences, I guess?

tl;dr do what's fun for you and find people you have fun with while playing, everything else is meaningless

>>96498941
the same way a battered wife is wrong about deserving it

>>96500214
I don't know what that means because I'm not married

>>96487291 (OP)
The hobby is divided into two distinct factions.
Grognards who sit around complaining about what Hit Points akshually mean, why martials are crap, and lately, wheelchairs.
And everyone else who just wants to play.
Eventually, the Grognards will die off, and the world will be a better place.

>>96488817
Just so I understand you.
You *don't* want to meet women?

>>96489074
this

>>96500386
that isnt what gaming is for

>>96498048
>>96498108
>>96499020
See? The same cope of "you don't play."
If I didn't play, why would I care? Since you're so interested in ad hominem, let's examine that. Who is more likely to care about this? Someone who actually plays the game, or someone who doesn't?
>but if you were a real player you would know that you can just make up everything and ignore all this
Ex nihilo fallacy where you seem to think everyone who plays this hobby plays 100% homebrew. That's an insane expectation. To deny yourself of other peoples' great ideas, just to avoid sticking up for a cultural paradigm you enjoyed. Pathetic. Of course, cultures change anyway. But the inauthentic normalfaggot flood caused by Stranger Things and Critical Roll, hastened the dilution and downfall of the TTRPG hobbybase.

>>96498916
>Game stores have always been for the desperate, you just need to notice the smell that so many of them are soaked with, if you can't pick up new players from other interests and friendships you develop as an adult then you're doing something wrong.
Most of the people in my other hobbies think RPGs are for fags.
>and I don't think somebody who sees no problem in being an embarrassing flamboyant cringetard is going to be able to accurately assess things.
It's an internet post, obviously a different tone from how I would talk IRL. Do you also speak in the form of the essays you wrote in school?

>>96500937
You seem really passionate about the hobby. The truth is influx of new blood is what keeps the hobby alive.
In your opinion what would be healthy fresh blood flowing in? I understand your frustration with stranger things and other media promoting dnd that basically resulted in loads of bad fresh blood.

>>96499013
Why are you writing things I didn't say and then fighting with those still? I'm not reading any of your posts if the first two dozen words are bullshit like this bubby. Move along.
I got no interest in getting dragged down to your level and losing a battle of idiocy because you've got the experience advantage.

>>96501582
>The truth is influx of new blood is what keeps the hobby alive.
That's true. That's been true since 1974, if we're just talking about D&D.
>In your opinion what would be healthy fresh blood flowing in?
The same situation that existed before 2014, or arguably 2008.
The hobby was not "dying" at that point.
In fact there were plenty of game stores back then. Better game stores. Plenty of people to play with.
Now I can find any number of groups to play with but the quality is lower.
So essentially, it's would you rather pick apples from the stand at the store?
Or would you rather pick them floating in a sea of muck and water you have to wade through?
There are slightly more apples yes, but you have to deal with a lot more garbage to get at them.
Oh and corporations that make money off of composting all of this no matter what quality, are telling you that this is the way things should be.
If you were around in the 00s you would understand.

>>96487396
>For mine: a huge proportion of RPG players would be better off playing board games. They either don't want the freedom to interact with the game world however they want that a GM provides, or just want a loosely structured storytelling framework.
Board games are straight up harder to make and learn than a simple PBTA slope game. I still maintain Blades in The Dark was originally planned as a board game but making boards, balancing rules and making tokens is "like, effort and stuff" so they slapped it into a nice cheap PDF and called it a day.

>>96487291 (OP)
1. Ontologicaly evil races are good world building and the only people who complain abut them are midwits who can't separate reality and speculation.
2. A system isn't bad just because you don't get it.
3. If you do "get it" your not special, if your going to get into a system vs system discussion you should at least try and make arguments and not just jerk yourself off because you play the "real" RPG.
4. The same people that want every thread to be a general are the people who complain about general game discussions and say "what system tho" which one is it?

>>96502626
Wow finally a post that I 100% agree with.

>>96487291 (OP)
If you can't attract more normal nerds, you often end up with a community of sex pests and trannies like WoD

>>96500937
>If I didn't play, why would I care
For the sake of a fake argument and being terminally online. You know, to shitpost.
Which is precisely what you are doing

I like how OP made a thread about stuff that /tg/ is not ready to accept, listed three of those and half of the thread is people arguing with him that he's wrong.
Way to prove the fucking point.

>>96501705
>Continues to miss the point
Eh... whatever.
And pro-tip: there is no battle. Or victory. I just said my piece, that's all.

>>96502556
>Situation that existed before 2008
>The hobby was not "dying" at that point.
It was the most dead since it was since the mid-to-late 80s, you dumb twat, with massive outflow of players, death of many publishing lines and everything turning into 3e and d20 bullshit.
At least thanks for telling us you are yearning for that clusterfuck and making it very fucking clear.
>but muh stores!
Stores died because online shopping became far more convenient, you dumb twat. Has literally nothing to do with the state of the hobby. LGS are almost always a net loss businesses, because if not the cost of running one will bankrupt it, then the costs of license will.

>Post /tg/ related truths that /tg/ isn't ready to comprehend yet
Adolf Hitler did nothing wrong.
If you disagree with me you are only actually proving my point correct.

>>96500937
>It's an internet post, obviously a different tone from how I would talk IRL. Do you also speak in the form of the essays you wrote in school?
No shit, but if you wrote that cringeworthy trash thinking it sounded epic, and you're bitching about me writing like an essay while being a pompous cunt you've got zero self awareness. You're not hiding your power level anywhere near like you imagine you are.

>>96503238
Allowing his general to waste men and material trying to capture Leningrad and Moscow, instead of focusing primarily on the oil-rich Caucasus, was very much wrong.

>>96504489
Plot-twist:
He should have just invaded Romania right after the Fall of France

>>96487291 (OP)
even the weather or how well everyone slept last night is more important to a good game than whatever system you use

>>96504489
If we're talking strategic mistakes, he should have never eased up during the invasion of France, and allowed the British to get away.
He was too sentimental towards the English, which cost him dearly.
If those 338,000 soldiers never left Dunkirk, there's a strong chance Britain just capitulates.
Even if they don't surrender, Britain's army is crippled, and they can't hope to resist German expansion in other theaters.

>>96501582
Not that anon, but new players isn't bad, it's the media that turns bad with new players. We are literally JUST getting out of the culture war where magic mech wheelchairs, good boy orcs, and only white people can be villains. What that does is fuck up the future of the game because corporations want your dollars and not your opinions. So when a shit head who only wants to push some sort of agenda every fucking game starts to over talk people who just want to game socially, you failed to gatekeep enough. There is certainly a line that has been crossed at some point and no one who started the fire is left (dopamine addicted mental patients do not stick to anything long). It makes you wary of accepting everything and thinking people will just be normal.

>>96487291 (OP)
Take #1:
The right way to run games depends on your group. There is some advice that applies more commonly than others, but running a good game only requires two things: You're happy, and your players are happy, and there are no tricks nor styles of gming that works for every possible group.

Take #2:
Tactical combat grid games are a dead end genre that appeal to a niche selection of autists. The fact that 2hu obsesses over them relentlessly is proof enough, but the rest of /tg/ and the ttrpg community at large haven't yet figured out that nobody except a small handful care about games beyond flavoring, what they let you play, and how easy they are to pick up and use.

>>96500937
tl;dr derp and fail
>>96501582
passionate about a hobby he is too retarded to be a part of.

>>96497596
>>96497524
Everytime I see someone as ignorant as you I automatically adopt the opposite talking point and repeat it whenever I see the topic come up. I have no dog in this race either, I don't play rpgs, I just hate sanctimonious faggots.

>>96503238
Hitler like you would be too stupid to play tabletop games.
>>96504489
He probably would lost anyway as the way the Nazis won was with quickly crushing foes.

>>96500937
You are replying to the same poster three times kek.

>>96504489
>Allowing
To be fair, he didn't. They explicitly undermined him and disobeyed orders.
Hitler and Stalin both experienced these issues throughout the war, though Stalins issues with his own generals had nearly disappeared by '44 when the red army had thoroughly decimated the Wehrmacht and was just making its way to Berlin. What Hitler really should have been doing is executing high ranking Wehrmacht officers back in France.

>>96502626
Yet people complain when I introduce ontologically evil Muslims

FATAL isn't the worst TTRPG ever, it just failed to fully live up to it's premise (a detailed, difficult, realistic, and historically/mythically accurate medieval fantasy game featuring lechery and graphic gore). It's bad primarily for mechanical reasons, and also since some of the random table results detract from the overall tone of the game or are obviously portals to a magical realm, but it having rules for converting a grapple into a rape is not one of those reasons.

>>96506958
It’s still very much the bottom of the barrel. But I can concede that it’s not technically “the worst” since it still qualifies as a finished product compared to utter dreck like Racial Holy War which is outright unplayable garbage. FATAL is still in a playable state, even if it’s a massively unpleasant experience doing so.

>>96507035
To clarify, I think that the premise of FATAL (a detailed, difficult, realistic, and historically/mythically accurate medieval fantasy game featuring lechery and graphic gore) is not a bad premise, I just dislike unrelated elements of fatal such as "1d100%" (effectively 50.5%), the age modifiers on some body part measurements (age should primarily affect height and weight, which can be used to calculate other variables), the fact that most weapons deal higher damage than needed to destroy even the strongest armor, the fact that some of the random magical effects are immersion-breaking, and the fact that a character has a high chance of being unplayable due to rolling a race that is retarded and cannibalistic, or an occupation that just accumulates advancement points at an extremely low yearly rate (I would be fine with a general commoner/expert (as in D&D 3.5e)/slave occupation, but most of the non-adventuring occupations which have gameplay that only consists of a skill created for that occupation should be merged into one.)

>>96487291 (OP)
Bait isn’t the problem on /tg/ the unwillingness p to engage with anything and make meaningful replies is
The ability to turn bait around and transform it into something meaningful often in a rolfstorm was one of the defining powers of the old boards

Pepole have become so stuck up with themselves and the standards they are failing to police and instead need to let go and embrace spontaneity and transience

The /tg/ hobby sphere is in a literal golden age
>huge surge of popularity a few years ago followed by a drop off of people who only did it for the fad, leaving a whole new generation of tabletop gamers
>mainstream stuff is still popular but there’s more active games than in recent past
>thanks to discord and Facebook is easy to find and organize games for any number of systems
>thanks to 3d printing creativity has flourished more than ever before

>>96488878
>Start a board game group
>Goes well
>Women show up
>Turns to shit

Lasted about two years until the women showed up. Died in less than 4 months after they appeared. Mainly because they made everything some kind of PC soapbox issue that nobody who played wanted to be involved with.

>Start a gaming night with the boys
>Friend brings his wife
>Actually really good player
>Another friend brings his wife
>Can't come anymore because his wife said the group is (shit you not) "promoting misogynistic behavior" because the party killed a literal baby sacrificing witch
>That guy was the ride for another bro
>Game dies

>Start another gaming group a town over
>Goes well for about six months
>Women have started showing up

I just know it's gonna die soon. It's not even that they are women, it that they keep going into turbo-lefty mode and want to shove any interaction, no matter how mundane, onto social media and people don't want their life bothered because someone got pissy they called a serving wench a serving wench.

>>96507086
>the fact that some of the random magical effects are immersion-breaking
Isn't one of the random magical effects the ability to just randomly cast FATAL and accidentally kill every living thing on the entire planet? Cause I know the odds of it happening are exceedingly low, but

>To clarify, I think that the premise of FATAL is not a bad premise
I don't think anyone's argued against that, save for a few who usually seem to be more emphasizing that David Hall's approach to what is historically/mythically accurate is sketchy as fuck. I do think that FATAL's execution was botched enough to count against it, since once you set your personal tastes aside too much of the book's content is just plain unnecessary and the entire thing is clearly a victim of a 'kitchen sink mentality' of throwing every idea David Hall had into one book. I see a lot of people try and argue "FATAL isn't the worst rpg ever", and I honestly can't help but feel that it's a lot of wasted effort because there are far more compact games like Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, The Witcher's tabletop game, or Symbaroum, which are trying for a faux gritty and grim medieval fantasy, and while they all have their flaws they at least aren't as much of a mess as FATAL is.

>>96507178
Usually women like that make shit up, but what they really mean is
>There is another female in the group who is better than me at somthing, I am immediately in a bad mood and need an excuse to make my man upset too
You know it's true. Seen it millions of times. If the females dont immediately adhere to a mental hierarchy between themselves, they will fall apart.

>>96507178
Shit that never happened told by a retarded nogames the post

>>96508112
hmm are you unready for the idea, or are you ready for it like a guy with a lead pipe is ready behind the convenience store dumpster

>>96487291 (OP)
3d printing is the future and a lot of hard plastic companies will go out of business. I expect gw to stay on top but smaller studios will go bust unless they properly adapt.

>>96487291 (OP)
>AD&D 2e is OSR D&D (as the decline period)

>>96507178
>Mainly because they made everything some kind of PC soapbox issue that nobody who played wanted to be involved with
>[Friend] Can't come anymore because his wife said the group is (shit you not) "promoting misogynistic behavior"
>It's not even that they are women
>they keep going into turbo-lefty mode and want to shove any interaction, no matter how mundane, onto social media
Sounds like a lot of hen-pecking goes on around you and it's longhoused your previous groups out of existence. If it's within your power, patrol these thots by pulling them aside and reminding them that your hobby's foundation is escapism and if they want a soapbox for current real-world social issues, they can take it elsewhere. Let them rage about it on social media, but issue no apology and don't invite them back.
Show no aggression, but stand your ground.

>>96508423
Replying to yourself are we?

>>96508376
I think you're right and wrong. Economy of scale means that distributed, smaller, specialist manufacturors have the opportunity to corner a market and sell for cheaper than you can print at home. The big companies will go out of business, but small specialist companies will be the norm--not home printing--because of economies of scale. Sure you'll print a handful of specialist parts. But you'll buy your army from the guy who sells the box of it on Amazon at half the price it'd cost you in materials to print, because his scale makes it cheaper.

>>96508465
No, it's my only post in the thread.
Why do you ask?

>>96508514
Sure it is kek.

>>96508222
I am ready for you to go be retarded somewhere else

>>96508512
>the guy who sells the box of it on Amazon at half the price it'd cost you in materials to print, because his scale makes it cheaper.
Not true until the labour required to get a print from build plate to box is significantly reduced. 1 build plate of minis, which is let's say, 10-15 minis at 32mm (with bases), is about 1 hour of post-processing work MINIMUM. Let alone the time spent for the print to go from start to finish, etc.

The result is for actual scaling, a lot of the manual process needs to be minimised. You can have a printer farm of 100 printers, but each person there is only going to be able to clear 8 plates a day, at maximum. That's a maximum of 80 minis a day per head. You have to pay for solvents, equipment, and other upkeep (FEP, replacing LED screens, etc). You're also paying a staff member a salary based on working with toxic chemicals, which rewards bonus rates in most western countries. You're looking at probably $200-$300/day minimum to make the job worthwhile for anyone to take up. Because you're paying $300 just for their time, the cost of the minis based on raw time alone is $3.75/mini. Now consider all the other aspects I mentioned, you're looking at maybe $5-$6/mini as your actual cost. That's not even including packaging, which would add an additional 50c-$1 on there depending what you're looking at. Not to mention you're using 3D printed minis so they're fragile as fuck and are prone to breaking unless you pad the shit out of them or have a very tight vacuum sealed box.

Now let's go to sales: you are selling to a distributor. They want a 40%. So the mini you made for $6, you will sell for $910, a 40% profit, but only $4/unit. Even selling 1000 minis, which would require 12.5 staff one day to do (or more realistically, 1 working week for 2.5 staff). Your distributor is now going to sell it to a retail store for $14, and the retail store has to make a cut too, so they're going to sell it for $20.

Cont..

>>96508639
No one ends up buying your minis for $20, because the world economy is fucking nosediving and people are being frugal about hobby money. And now because of how the production process works for 3D printers, there's really no way to streamline and sell in bulk or sell boxes or armies, because at the end of the day, the individual minis cost you the same in labor to produce regardless of how they're sold, whether bundled or with big MOQs.

The only solutions present are as follows

1: Outsource manufacturing to to a country with low wages and pray the quality doesn't suck ass, and they survive the international journey to you
2: Return to selling PoD for people, where a full plate is $100-$200 of cash for you instead, and maybe 1-2 hours of work.
3: Forgo smaller minis/armies and switch to selling giant monsters, vehicles, dragons and shit as the labour required for post processing is actually less intense. You can justify high costs in selling these models to distributors because of the size, however scaling something this large is difficult. Each model might be a 1-2 day print and cost $$ in resin.

I am not pulling this out of my ass, FYI. I'm currently in talks with a distributor in my country to sell 3D printed models in bulk to them so they can sell them to 300 game shops across the country plus a few retail chains. But the economies of scale almost works in reverse for 3D printing, because scale doesn't matter when you have to have someone manually unplate, remove supports for, and wash (repeatedly) every single fucking mini. Even washing 20-30 at a time in a big tub, it doesn't save the manual support removal aspect or anything like that. It's all a massive fuck around and the costs weighed on yourself make selling the models either not worth it, or having them priced so high that they're not affordable and people won't want to buy them. Not to mention packaging is such a fucking bitch. You know what the MOQ is on a blister pack? 10,000. Per design.

>>96508639
Just realised a typo. You're selling the $6 mini to the distrib for $10, not $910. Lmao

>>96508699
>because the world economy is fucking nosediving
Heard this at least once a year since the 90s lol.

>>96495962
I sure do. But I also want RPGs to be a niche hobby again and get the stinking globalists away from it.

https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths

Ergo, stringent gatekeeping.

>>96510247
It's gonna stay globalized forever lol

>>96488878
Did.
Multiple times.
MtG groups, weed rotations, vidya groups, barbecues, ttrpg campaigns, fishing trips, my own calvinball card games, even conversations.
Attracting women may be a foreign concept for you, but it happens if even 1 guy in a group is desirable.

>>96512634
You have to be some sort of top 10% chad for that to happen. I'm lucky enough I get some unprompted attention from women and compared to most men that puts me somewhere along the chad spectrum, but even I haven't had that sort of thing. Of course you mention normalfag stuff so maybe you're just fishing where there's acutally fish to be had

>I'm going to say an uncomfortable truth now that I believe that the TTRPG community needs to hear. Because, broadly, we all play these games because of the amazing stories we get to tell and share with our friends, right? But, again, speaking broadly, this community its designers, its players, and certainly its evangelists, are shit at telling stories.
>We have spent decades arguing about dice systems, experience points, world-building and railroading. We have spent hardly any time at all thinking about the most basic tenets of storytelling. The stuff that if you talk to the writer of a comic, or the show runner of a TV show, or the narrative designer of a video game. I'm talking: 'What makes a good character?' 'What are the shapes stories traditionally take?' What do you need to have a satisfying ending?'
>Now, I'm not saying we have to be good at any of those things, RPGs focused on simulationism or just raw chaos have a charm all of their own. But in some ways, when people get disheartened at what they perceive as qualitative gap between what happens at their tables and what they see on the best actual play shows, is not a massive gulf of talent that create that distance. It's simply that the people who make actual play often have a basic grasp on the tenets of story telling.

>>96513900
No, you just need to be sexually active and/or have sexually active friend(s). Hell, guess we just had vastly different experiences.

>>96513907
Imagine worrying about all that in a murderhobo-flavored freeform tactical dice game.

>>96513944
So that's not applicable to the vast majority of people who play TTRPGs
I have friends who can attract women and they have their girlfriends, it's not like women are lining up to fuck my friend group in general lmao

>>96513949
there are zero (0) "tactical dice games" that wouldn't be better as either video games or board games

>>96513959
>So that's not applicable to the vast majority of people who play TTRPGs
Why should it be?
>it's not like women are lining up to fuck my friend group in general lmao
Why should they?
Geez bro, where is your argument here even going?

>>96514009
Because the original argument was start something with your bros -> women follow into group
As far as I know any women in TTRPG or vidya anything in my friend group were pretty much roped into it, even most spouses maybe visit for half an hour and then fuck off. I'm not complaining, but my experience is not like yours at all

>>96514016
>any women in TTRPG or vidya anything in my friend group were pretty much roped into it, even most spouses maybe visit for half an hour and then fuck off
The good ones, sure. Have you really never lived through the experience of a "less-than-spouse" forcing her participation out of fear, at first, that the dude was cheating on here, and later needed the entire group to pander to her? This seems like it's an evergreen experience from myself and other guys I know, almost a formative one, that repeats itself through time in assorted different types of groups. I hear the same story, over and over, sometimes it's from /tg/-related stuff.
Maybe you just live in a particularly sane place.

>>96514029
>Have you really never lived through the experience of a "less-than-spouse" forcing her participation out of fear, at first, that the dude was cheating on here, and later needed the entire group to pander to her?
Never. The fuck kind of people you game with?

>>96514044
All sorts of people. Like, from diametrically opposed extremes of several spectrums.

>>96514076
See, I don't have that problem. I have known most of these people for close to twenty years, some slightly more, some slightly less. It's not like we aren't pretty diverse either

>>96492084
>96492084
Calixis Sector is a shitty corrupt and damned backwater precisely so you don't need to care about established big lore.

>>96514085
Cherish what you have then. I think out of over 30 people I've played TTRPGs with I can count less than 10 that weren't involved in some sort of similar drama, the percentage sees to go even lower for MtG (but YGO has great numbers for some reason). As you mention, the normier you go seems to influence how large of a problem this is, but TTRPGs seem to be normier than fishing trips at least from my numbers.

>>96514104
We're just spergy enough we would probably completely miss any drama taking place

yes, obviously, left looks better than right, no one is going to disagree with that. but when playing a GAME, right is obviously going to be a funner experience for BOTH sides, just look at the utter lack of balance in the left terrain set up. the near side has to traverse a river and then fight through open fields while the far side immediately gets access to most the hard cover of buildings on the map and on top of that gets the hedgerows overlooking the open fields. its blatantly not fair and poorly set up.

>but just give the attack side more units!
ok then, how do you balance that? how do you know how many points to allocate to balance out the terrain advantage? double? triple? what if thats too much and now the attacker has the distinct advantage? its way too much trouble to figure out. thats why tourney tables will always provide the better gameplay experience for BOTH sides. GAMEplay. WarGAMES. These are GAMES. A good game needs to be fun for all involved. It is not fun when one side has an inherent advantage over the other. There is a reason why 40k tournaments are by and far the most popular wargaming events and playstyle over every single alternative.

>>96514109
Maybe I need a spergier group. Is Card Ranker translated yet? Maybe I can call the YGO crowd.

>>96514142
Actually I inadvertently lied when I said there has never been any drama, but it was minor and happened so long ago I almost forgot it happened
I was still a teenager like most of the rest of us back then lmao, now mid-30s, since then, nothing.

>>96487291 (OP)
The industry has completely stagnated since the normie invasion, it's just been 5e and pbta hacks for the last decade. It's like when they got into video games in the late 00s and everyone stopped making games besides multiplayer shooters and cinematic experiences because those were all the normies wanted.

kek.

>>96514116
You are playing the wrong game buddy

>>96510247
If you are trying to gatekeep the hobby then you are too stupid to be a part of it.

>>96498121
So does this include you too or

>>96500386
Not when I'm nerd caving with the boys, no
The was woman in the 60 person poker tournament I was in last night and she was the most obnoxious person there.
Which is saying something given it was 95% degenerate whiny gamblers

>>96514393
I first played a ttrpg at 20, been about 15 years. Only 2 tables remain, but luckily both have been increasingly dismissive of women

>>96519788
I think for a group to survive the introduction of women, you have to have a pretty specific kind of guy populating it and the girls can't be the type that live off any and all male attention

>>96487291 (OP)
>Appealing to the normie masses is a necessary evil in order to keep what you love afloat.
Why is this supposedly the case now, but not through the history of tabletop rpgs before?

>>96514044
I've seen it happen a bunch, anon

>>96521743
Maybe my people just disregard women extra hard then
Nobody cares about the prospect of getting their dick wet

>>96487291 (OP)
>Post /tg/ related truths that /tg/ isn't ready to comprehend yet
/tg/ is not a warhammer or the 40k board.
The myth that it was created for 40k is just a myth until proven otherwise.

>>96521658
Holmes pitched the basic set as a way to get children to understand the game.
Most system from the 80's onwards had a quick start or box set aimed at absolute ttrpg newfags.

>>96487291 (OP)
>MTG, DnD and Warhammer are actually good for the hobby. They get new people started in this hobby and they keep the trend chasers contained and away from the rest of the hobby.
This is what people miss about the big boys in the hobby. They get fresh meat in and act as a filter between those who just follow trends and those that actually will stick around with the hobby.

>>96495987
fully agree. they're a nightmare to paint, and no one's staring at every mini an inch away at eye level all the time anyway

>>96513907
this bit was what made me realise that not only was quinn stupid and ignorant as fuck about RPGs (1. no it's not about being a fucking writer's room 2. storynuts have been banging on about it since the 1970s) but that he may also be stupid as fuck in his board game and vidya reviews
Immediately dispelled the illusion that the face of these overproduced youtube companies know anything at all- it's all slop with a shiny presentation and britbong accent

>>96487291 (OP)
People are getting dumber every generation and companies will adapt by dumbing down their products.

>>96513907
>It's simply that the people who make actual play often have a basic grasp on the tenets of story telling
A far more fundamental difference is that they aren't each writing one character as they go, but brainstorming, editing, and collaborating on all parts in any order. I guess it might be comparable to improv theatre, but as far as I know that's largely just an acting exercise and the audience for it is miniscule.

>>96527373
I hate how right you are, and I feel like I'm part of the problem. How do I resolve this and not be part of the problem?

>>96530376
just don't dumb

>>96497599
>It's okay to have fun playing D&D 5e.
This is entirely true, a mark of shit treasure maybe, but true.
>It's a good system and I'm tired of pretending it isn't.
I rather disagree with this, it's a "fine" system. It's a tactical hero combat system with really awkward everything else rules bolted on top. It works exceedingly well for the dungeon crawls it was initially designed around, but struggles the further from that design space you tread. This would be fine if D&D weren't the only experience most people have with the space, but it is and so must people compare it to a niche design space that was built around wargames from the outset.
So in summation it's fine, it works well at what it's designed to do, but it's rather niche. The problem is that it being the de facto entry point teaches really bad habits to new players and deflects those that would enjoy actually role playing as opposed to rolling combat like D&D favors

>>96497599
I don't think there was much hate for DnD 5e as a system, but rather the hate was for the stereotypical DnD 5e player.

>>96532651
>It works exceedingly well for the dungeon crawls it was initially designed around,
No it doesn't. It purposefully removes dungeon crawling mechanics that earlier editions had and places all those burdens on the GM just making shit up.
The "5e works good but only in this really specific niche" crowd is just trying to find an approved way to critique the most popular game on the market and its pathetic. It does everything in a shit to mediocre way.

>>96487291 (OP)
Genesys' "narrative dice" concept is the ultimate RPG system. All we need now is further elaboration on and refinement of it; all other systems should cease development immediately.

>>96500386
NTA but no, I hate them and wish to no longer interact with them, ever again.
I'm well past craving love.

>>96535757
You have played this game to know what you are speaking of?
I’m interested in genesys can you sell me on it?

>>96537588
I can barely put into words how much of a revelation separating "success/failure" and "advantage/threat" results are. The scenarios it creates are so dynamic and it makes the players really participate with their own creativity, which has a side benefit of reducing GM burnout compared to D&D 5e.

>>96537837
have you played any pbta? I think people use the same argument to support them.

>>96537846
Yes. I hate PbtA. Genesys accomplishes everything I would have wanted from PbtA and more.

>>96535757
How does GURPS hold up against Genesys?

>>96518381
Yeah in a good military wargame I could have my units go prone to take full advantage of cover

>>96539621
GURPS doesn't need bullshit dice for one, just d6s

>>96487291 (OP)
>MTG, DnD and Warhammer are actually good for the hobby. They get new people started in this hobby and they keep the trend chasers contained and away from the rest of the hobby.
partially agree with this one. gateway games and filter games serve an important role. the only problem is the companies those games fund are constantly doing evil shit to reinforce their monopolies, which is not good for the hobby.

>>96487396
>Except we don't really require businesses to stay afloat in order to continue our hobbies.
this one can't be repeated enough. it's not visible if you just look at players at the LGS, but that's because LGS cater specifically to the pack cracking / plasticrack crowd since they consume the most. for most of our hobbies, we're at the point of total publisher independence for anyone who wants it, and a lot of players today never interact with the publisher-controlled economy for these games.

>>96487291 (OP)
If the people on this board spent more time playing the games they liked in accordance with their own preferences instead of looking for things to be performatively angry about then we'd be in a much better place.