Thread 96652488

no acks edition

welcome to the New School Revolution General, the thread dedicated to games derived from the OSR movement

>What is the NSR?
the NSR is a subcategory of the OSR, it mostly follows the same play style but experiments further with the mechanics and settings
*broadly NSR games*
*have* a gm, a interesting setting, living world
*are* rules light, deadly
*and focus on* emergent narrative, external interaction and exploration

>What is this thread for?
this thread is for system, adventure, setting, mechanics, ongoing campaigns, anything that related to the *actual* game
POST ART ALSO, inspiration and for the tg threads

>What is this thread NOT for?
meta discussions or drama of the games and its creators aka shadowboxing with twitter, reddit and the OSRG (frens with osrbros)
>stay on topic

>games
shadowdark, into the odd, mausritter, cairn, mörk borg (and its hacks), dungeon crawl classics, mothership, knave, troika!, whitehack, blackhack, old school essentials (we know this is just a retroclone)

>links, resources, more games!, etc:
https://pastebin.com/0W8WmbCk

>previous thread:
>>96607787

>thread question
whats the last game you've played (gm or pc) and what is one nsr game you want to try out

Have you had any experience with the Black Sword Hack? What are your impressions? I want to run a mini S&S campaign and am wondering which ruleset to use

>>96652418
>As in, if 2,500 people live in X place, I should roll 6d10, every single month. What do we accomplish by this? That many people getting added or subtracted, because the mean result of this dice roll is 0. Also these are exploding dice because there isn't enough fucking dice being rolled already, for a dice that has an impact of <1% each time and an average impact of ZERO.
LAUGHED SO HARD MY ASS IS LITERALLY FALLING OFF
thank you rule-anon for doing the gods work of pointing out all the fucking amateurish design decisions

>>96652488 (OP)
ACKS is so fucking based

>>96652848
Favorite ACKS class? For me its the hafling bounder, hope ACKS2 has a halflings book!

>>96652976
Yeah ngl it's the best nsr game

>>96652986
Vaultguard. Dorfs are always best

>>96652488 (OP)
last sunday i played mothership as a pc my gm is running some triptech modules
i want to play orbital blues though, cowboy bebop style

>>96652986
for me it's the humble fisherman who has mastered the art of trolling the line

>To get to the higher levels of the industry — where Dungeons and Dragons, the Star Wars and Marvel licensed tabletop RPGs and other household names live — you have to get through the “indie” levels of the industry, which is made up of isolated up-and-coming creators and acronymic sub-scenes like the OSR (“Old School Renaissance”), PBTA (“Powered By the Apocalypse”), and FKR (Free Kriegspiel Revolution) etc. Navigating that is not easy.

>To further complicate things, the harassers are all a circular firing squad. That is, they are all constantly accusing each other of harassment and worse. Here are just a few examples, to put it in focus (deep breath):

> ... while Brian Yaksha concurs in his interview that Cavegirl is a “a piece of work” and “racist”, Yaksha also says Chris McDowall (founder of the OSR Discord forum, as well as author of indie games Into the Odd and Electric Bastionland) is an “egotistical jackass”, and further says that two of early indie darling PH Lee’s games (Bliss Stage and Hot Guy’s Making Out) promote child abuse, but Ash Kreider (author of Our Traveling Home “A Ghibli-inspired fantasy tabletop RPG about queer romance, found family, and finding healing through belonging”), in their interview (in addition to attacking two creators behind the ten million dollar Avatar: Legends Kickstarter respectively as “soulless and toxic” and a “tenderqueer” who made a name for herself by being “nice” but not “kind”), claims PH Lee’s enemies used “GamerGate-level harassment tactics” against Lee including contacting mutuals on Twitter and asking them to unfollow Lee, which, however, is a tactic PH Lee’s ally Whitney Beltrán (who formerly worked on official D&D’s recent Ravenloft supplement with her partner Ajit George and who, last I checked was working on an official triple-A Dungeons and Dragons video game) definitely did to yet another designer.

wew lad

>>96654477
I have no problem with the people who play NSR / rules lite / artpunk privately, but behind the curtains many NSR creators, reddit mods of the largest subreddits (e.g. r/osr), and OSR-styled discord admins are extreme levels of toxic. The worst I've personally ever come across, at least.

The more "old school" side of OSR has its share of dickheads, Gillespie, EOTB, Griff, and Jeffro come to mind for different reasons, but that's NOTHING with respect to the amount of NSR toxicity.

>Cavegirl is a “a piece of work” and “racist”,
I always feel vindictive satisfaction when people who already annoyed me get cancelled

also how many RPGs about LGBT teenagers could anyone possibly need, that's like the default PbtA theme at this point

Anybody else play this? This was my first exposure to RPGs as a kid, recently found a cheap used copy so I jumped on it. It's a 2e starter set, rules are definitely simplified (single saving throw for example) but it's hard for me to compare to the full game because my only exposure to 2e was Baldur's Gate. Pre-gen characters but suprisingly you can take them up to level 5 which seems generous, especially since they were so stingy with dice (only six in the box, not even with a percentile die). Pretty cool TSR dice bag though. Back in the day I played with two friends, we made it as far as the first combat encounter and got TPK'd and then shelved the game and never played it again lol.

I don't think anybody would be interested in playing this now, if we're going old-school then we'd probably just play OSE or something, plus pre-gen characters are a tough sell. I'm just going to play it solo and try to succeed where I failed as a kid and take Thaddeus the Wizard, Niles the Thief, and the big-boob elf chick through the adventures.

>>96654800
A couple more observations as I'm leafing through it: The dungeon crawling isn't as perfunctory as /osr/ led me to expect from 2e. I was super confused at first because it says to check for wandering monsters every 60 ft. of corridor and EVERY MINUTE of time the players spend searching rooms, which seems insane!But I guess by 1999 a lot of people weren't carefully tracking time in the dungeon anymore, so all it's really saying in effect is "WM check once per long corridor, and again when players spend time doing something in a room." Which is pretty close to how it works in my OD&D games. Also there's a 1-in-10 chance of WMs instead of 1-in-6, but a 3% reduction is nbd.

Torches are weird. It still says they last an hour, but we're not really counting dungeon time anymore so why bother? Not counting torches is a cardinal OSR sin, but honestly OD&D doesn't bother telling you how much a torch weighs anyway, or how far torchlight casts, to say nothing of "Continual Light." I think the whole "count every torch!!!" thing is a bit overblown.

The biggest fuck-up is with the XP system. They use checkpoint XP for completing story objectives, and no XP for treasure. So if the players decide to try and get off the rails of the adventure, no XP. It's honestly pretty disappointing since the first adventure gets your hopes up by starting in medias res right in the first room of a dungeon, and there's even a cool random dungeon generator! But what happens if the players decide they want to leave the dungeon and go explore the wilderness? Just a bit of XP for defeating monsters. Individual players can be awarded bonus XP for "good roleplaying", which... ew.

>>96654800
>>96654970
THAC0 is actually WORSE than I remember as a kid. See I thought it was presented as "d20 + mods >= THAC0 - AC". Which is maybe a little confusing but not too bad.

What the book actually says is "THAC0 - (d20 + mods) = highest (i.e., lowest\best) AC hit." It's mathematically the same, and I get the logic if you're trying to keep monster AC secret: The player does all the math on their side and just announces the best AC they hit to the DM, who compares it to the monster's AC. But imagine how much slower it is to have an eight year do this for every attack:
>okay so d20... that's nine. Niles has a THAC0 of 19, so 19 - 9 = 10. Oh wait, plus four because he's making a sneak attack... 14? That doesn't sound right. Oh right, I have to subtract bonuses (or add them to the die roll BEFORE I subtract the total from THAC0, not after). So actually it's six. Okay DM, Niles hits at most AC 6!

And then the DM still has to remember that with descending AC, "a most AC 6" of course actually means "no lower than AC 6." We're all adults now and we get the idea, but this is supposed to be Babby's First D&D.

>>96655115
>this is supposed to be Babby's First D&D
When Babby was a boomer or gen-x, it worked reasonably well. It's Zoomers who have trouble with addition and subtraction.

>>96654477
>GamerGate-level harassment tactics
This cracks me up every time. Not only still being fixated by GG but also thinking they used some kind of evil harassment sorcery as opposed to just asking some obvious questions of journalistic collusion that made the targets of those questions shit themselves.

>>96652986
The Aztec Smoker. Incredible profit gainz.

>>96655670
Solid choice, but the main drawback of the class is that it's ineffective unless there's also an Aztec Angler in the party. That would be my first choice, since Anglers can operate okay without Smokers.

>>96655733
Bah, you can just buy the raw materials in local villages you pass by.

>>96654970
>1-in-10 chance of WMs instead of 1-in-6, but a 3% reduction is nbd
I know this is the remedial thread but lol.

>>96652976
>>96652986
>>96652995
>>96653002
>>96653064
Samefag.

>>96656231
You really need medication. Try talking about games instead of crying.

What's youre favorite ACKS class?
I would guess it is the venturer, the one who is in charge of increasing your capitalist gains :)

>>96656640
>>96653064
These classes have any good synergy?

>>96652488 (OP)
Is this the ACKS thread? It's definitely my favorite system, still available through Kickstarter for only $249!

>>96656640
>What's youre favorite ACKS class?
Not a fan of most ACKS classes, to be honest. I use it for other things.

>>96652768
I'll ask again. I've seen favourable reviews, but I haven't seen anyone play the campaign, no session reports, no conclusions after 50, 25, or 10 sessions, co community, one 3rd party adventure. It seems, just like Whitehack, like a great game, but also like Whitehack dead.

>>96659249
I'm pissed I didn't buy the book last year when I was looking at it because you can't fucking get it now.

>>96655283
All human beings, regardless of age, find addition easier than subtraction, Grandpa.

>>96654477
>>To get to the higher levels of the industry — where Dungeons and Dragons, the Star Wars and Marvel licensed tabletop RPGs and other household names live — you have to get through the “indie” levels of the industry, which is made up of isolated up-and-coming creators and acronymic sub-scenes like the OSR (“Old School Renaissance”), PBTA (“Powered By the Apocalypse”), and FKR (Free Kriegspiel Revolution) etc. Navigating that is not easy.
hwat? No?

Just publish 5e trash on DM's Guild and D&D Beyond and shit. Indieshit is a circular firing squad because it's 100 people competing over 1,000 customers.

>>96656220
Well that's embarrassing. For some reason I was thinking 1-in-6 was 13.33% instead of 16.67%. Oh well. All the more evidence they should have used an easier THAC0 formula for mathlets like me!

I ran a one shot of Orbital Blues and the charmisma skill was like 80% of the rolls. I don't think it's well designed.
I still want to give it another shot because I like the style and pitch too much. I might just insert the blues mechanics and complications into Mothership.

>>96652768
I ran it twice, I really liked it
The text was evocative enough to hype players who had no particular interest in classic S&S. It's an even slimmer Black Hack, you could say it doesn't get in the way, it doesn't add too much neither. I took out the clockwork stuff because I didn't like it, the second time I forgot to mention it wasn't included and no one brough it up.
I don't know if I could make a campaign, I like the text for it but it doesn't read like something usable in game. More tone advice than design.

>>96653040
which one did you play?
I ran the water park and drug cave ones. They both felt like they could have a couple more minutes in the oven, but if I run them again I know what to do.

>>96654477
That article makes them sound like demons when the process is pretty universal
>Be a rando with no career
>Say whatever bullshit comes to mind, do whatever
>Get success
>People demonize you for things you did when you had zero power
You have some psychos anywhere, but the article makes it sound like the ItO discord is kiwifarms.

>>96659249
I replied super late to your first post, but I'll add a bit more.
I ran the one shot included in the big book and a Cairn adventure. I had to change some stuff on the go in the later to make it compatible, but mainly lore and inernal logic. Mechanically it's pretty stand alone, you can use he included monsters as a guide but since it's all player facing and damage is standarized there's no particular need for convertions. I would say it lacks low risk enemies, I think it's not meant to have goons just big fights.

Campaing play has some big concepts but not a lot of tools. Even the extra zines focus on one shots, the first one has a couple cool archetypes like nobles and aliens so check them out.

>>96660860
not really, people are always promoting each other and trying to make things bigger. The MoSh discord has a whole section to hire people and another to guide new people into crowdfunding or printing, there's some movement now and then even outside of big events. If you're not an asshole you can talk with most of the big names in the industry and if you catch them with time they'll give you a hand or shoot the shit.

>>96660860
>Indieshit is a circular firing squad because it's 100 people competing over 1,000 customers.
This is an interesting point where you're right but you're also kind of wrong, because those hypothetical 1000 costumers will actually spend money on multiple games they are interested in and try new shit, instead of sticking in whatever singular ecosystem they are in like 5e or Pathfinder players. Also, at least for some of this stuff, it's quite a bit cheaper than trad game releases. It isn't as much investment to buy a zine or a pdf (or wait for a humble bundle with a bunch of shit in there) than it is to throw down for a big hardback/multiple hardbacks.

>>96660841
Not all human beings experience the same degree of difficulty with basic operations, and age is definitely a contributing factor, kiddo.

>>96661247
>takes being absurdly bad at basic arithmetic as further evidence for whatever other dumb idea they had instead of reevaluating their bad take on wondering monsters
This is why no one like you fags. You can't even have a genuine discussion about games because you're more interested in fronting as being right than in figuring anything out or actually playing the bad ideas you want to be lauded for.

>>96661498
>the ito discord
had some problems

>>96661549
>If you suck up to people they'll pretend to listen to you
Its a small clique with specific interests. If you're interested in ladder climbing its very obvious the routs and plays. If you're interested in games its less good.

Did anyone try The Indie Hack?
For what I heard it'ss The Black Hack meets Dungeon World. I heard that as a comliment but I'm not even sure.

>>96663092
Are you sure that's the ItO discord?
Are you sure that's any different from /tg/?

>>96663102
>>If you suck up to people
The text was
>if you're not an asshole
If not being an asshole means the same as sucking up to people then I don't think any space will be good enough for you, anon. I hope you can have your own business where all your employees will hate you because you don't sound like something fit to survive in society.

>>96663023
Yes, in that your old, tired brain is bad at math and thus thinks it is in any way beneficial to do a formula that outputs the exact same results, but slower, dozens of time per night. Then, because you have so little going for you, you have to pretend to be superior because of this.

Anyone can do THAC0. There is just literally no reason to, because the distribution is exactly the same as d20 + bonus >= target AC.

>>96663359
>because you have so little going for you, you have to pretend to be superior because of this.
he's not doing that
he's telling himself he's superior because you keep replying to him.

>>96663185
You're dealing with a crowd who thinks any criticism or honest discussion is being an asshole.
its classic 'all revelations are slights against my image' sort of shit you get in cliques.

>>96663176
Yep.
I'm sure its different from parts of /tg/ where they actually play and discuss games. If you can't fin those its because you don't do those things.
We've already seen how little this general plays.

>>96663185
based

>>96661479
i think it was another bug hunt were still not done but ive had fun so far

>>96663509
Another Bug Hunt isn't from the triptech jam, it's one of the first party modules.

>>96663359
>Anyone can do THAC0. There is just literally no reason to, because the distribution is exactly the same as d20 + bonus >= target AC.
I can't disagree, but really the point I was getting at is that even if you're going to do THAC0, there are easier and slower ways of doing it. "Roll a d20, add/subtract modifiers, subtract THAT entire result from your THAC0 score, report that value to the DM as the best AC that you hit" is probably the slowest and most prone to errors.

idea for a cy_borg campaign, use the grinding the mmorkg supplement (connects original mork borg to cy_borg as if it was a mmo), until the last miserable headline when they world is revealed to be a simulation and they wake up in death in space (they were part of a fallout style vault, but instead of a vault a lonely ship floating in space that got separated from their fleet), what do you guys think?

>>96664183
my panic engine gonzo shit for personal use has a random afterlife table that includes waking up in different settings.
Out of the MBs cy_borg is the one that people manage to keep going for whole campaigns the most, I wouldn't start with that one as the default. It could be a fun chain of oe shots if you have them prepared and your players manage to survive them all.

>>96663037
The WM chance is reduced by about 7% instead of 3%. But to be fair you're also rolling at least x2 more often than in OD&D, where you get two moves to a turn, on top of rolling after every minute spent doing things vs every ten minutes in OD&D.
I don't know about B/X or 1e AD&D, but it's hard for me to tell if you actually want to discuss this or if you just have some weird axe to grind.

>>96663359
>Anyone can do THAC0.
Sadly, there's a bunch of people who have actual difficulty doing that. Most of them Zoomers.

>>96663176
>Did anyone try The Indie Hack?
Yeah, I played a game with the creator as GM back in the Google+ days.
Unfortunately it's not great. There's the outline of something interesting in there but it fails the landing. Like someone did a first draft and published it as a game without really doing the ground work and revisions you need to do after proper playtesting.
I best remember when we got in a fight. TIH tracks damage and conditions by adding 'details' to things (a bag gets torn, an armor gets chipped etc) until you reach a certain threshold and then the thing gets destroyed. The idea is that you can have conditions spring from the fiction and blend HP with conditions to easily keep track of them. I chopped at an enemy, can't remember which, and asked if I could add the detail 'has no head'. There was a moment of silence clearly indicating the creator had never even tought of this possibility and he went "... huh, I guess you can". Fights got a lot eaiser than intended after that.
So yeah,

>>96665017
are you sure it hasn't been updated since the G+ days tho?
I feel it's the exact game that could feed like crazy from PbtA concepts.

Is anyone preparing to run something on halloween?
So much stuff is already horror tangential that I'm not finding anything that feels like it should be run as an event

>>96666957
I'm thinking of running Turn it Off after the last Between Two Cairns sold it to me.

What games make you roll under your Attributes, Skill or Attributes+Skill? How does these games handle difficulty increments? Malus to the roll I guess?

>>96669615
>Malus to the roll I guess
pretty much
Castles and crusades is an explicitly roll under system as far as skill checks go.
I think a few nusr games like Whitehack also have you rolling under your stats
Are you looking for something specific?

I was gonna run Nobunaga today but I'm sick, pray for me

>>96669615
Doesn't really fit with nusr, but I've always liked the idea of a game where you roll under stat+skill, but the difficulty is determined by the amount of d6s you roll.

>>96669661
>>96669637
Thanks, yeah I was thinking of my own shitty homebrew for my kid and his friends, plus game design in general.

I like the idea of roll under because it gets rid of some GM fiat. The better you are, the easier it is. But as is, it implies that for an expert fighter, fighting a swordmaster is as easy as fighting a child. So the natural counter is to apply malus but then you reintroduce the GM fiat into the equation (nothing wrong with that per se but in my specific case I'd really like to minimize that).

On a design note, I could simply chose to scratch off difficulty ratings for anything PVE and makes anything PVP into an opposition roll instead of roll under (like roll above your opponent stat instead of under yours). But they're rather young and I'm introducing a whole new dichotomy (PVE/PVP) with a whole new opposite rule (roll under/roll above).
So I was thinking, maybe I'll have a better time with Free League' style (or is it Alien RPG specific?) of having a datacard for each enemy type with predetermined reaction rolls for when it's their turn to act (like a masterswordman will have roll 1-6: attack at full damage, 7-8: counter-attack at previously suffered damage + 1, 9-10: disarm the closest opponent).

It's mostly for discussion's sake though, since you guys confirmed the most common form is malus I could simply declare every challenging situation fits in a Tiers system where malus go from -1 to -3 so there's not too much granularity therefor not too much headscratches nor debates.

>>96669979
this sounds a lot like dragonbane. it also uses cards or something to simulate certain things in combat (i think). it's a roll under d20 system that i recommend you check out. it is possibly exactly what you need

>>96664342
>its hard to tell if discussing the difference between 3% and 7% is the subject
This isn't the thread for maths, that's pretty clear.

>>96669615
like someone already said, not really a nsr thing
You want Modiphius' 2d20 system, it's pretty cool

>>96669979
The trick would be to make every attack roll opposed, and use blackjack rules (so the highest roll without going over wins), or you could introduce a rule were the difference between the attacks combat skill and the defenders combat skill is used a modifier. So, if I have a 50 attack and I'm fighting a swordsman with a 55 attack, I functionally have a 45, but if I attack someone with 30 swordsman skill I have a 70.

>>96670917
>>96669979
that could be easily done with any CoC/WH inspired d100 roll under. If you roll bellow stat+ skill it's a success, if it's even bellow skill it's 2 successes, if you get advantage you roll twice and both count for up to 4 successes.
The issue comes in condifying what multiple successes mean, you need to make it worth it.

For example, in Conan you have effects to an attack and you can bank up to 7 successes collectively to add more dice to future rolls.

>>96671728
do you have any system in mind that does that?

>>96676321
as far as Nusr? If I recall correctly Solar Blades and Cosmic spells uses a roll under blackjack mechanic that might work for you.

Actually, it takes your enemies skill into account, too, you need to roll under your skill but *over* their hit dice level in order to hit them.

>>96665491
On your suggestion I went back and took a look. there's a new 1.1 version, but the differences I see are minimal, if there are any (honestly can't remember what version we used in G+). Reading it again I actually get a worse impression than I remembered.
The central mechanic of 'Addding details' still doesn't work as written.
>Very imprecise rules where the rules should be precise - you can add X details to someone or something before death/breakage
>Except definition of what constitutes a detail are uselessly vague
And it suffers from
>Text is often needlessly wordy while being obtruse, not properly edited for clarity
>Neat ideas that aren't properly fleshed out or seem out of place in the game as a whole
It's not terrible, but it needs some serious revising of the core rules to actually work at the table. It's the kind of game that was very common at the height of the artpunk OSR movement, where being unfinished or poorly thought out was lauded as 'leaving room for the imagination'. It tries to do the shtick where you say a lot with less, and doesn't quite nail it.

>>96676981
It sounds like the kind of game that never implemented play testing from other people. "Well, it just works at our table" is a huge problem in the design space.

>>96677024
Yeah. I hate talking down about what are really DIY creations filled with honest enthusiasm and love of the game, but criticism is part of the creative proces. I'm certain something excellent could be build on the foundations of Indie Hack with good effort.

ACKS might be hands down the best system I've ever played.

guys have any of you read knock!, ive been eyeing it on my local game store but i dont know how good it is

>>96679295
It's good. It's like any kind of OSR zine except giant sized. I've skimmed over all the issues and alway found at least two things that I can use at the table.

>>96679295
Download a pdf

>>96678982
It's the depth of the ocean mechanics and how they interact with the economy that really make it for me.

>>96679675
>>96679684
i found it in nutana if anyone else is interested
also appx n jam later i might start downloading some to make a /nsrg/ recommends

>>96680069
Does that include inland fresh waters?

>>96679295
that looks more like jack black than harry dubois

>>96680069
Who the fuck wants that

>>96685420
Its good for sea farming.

Dear anons, I will soon run ItO for my frens. I've only played 3.5e and 5e thus far and have only had some very basic GMing experience in those; my frens have never played any TTRPG. Are the adventure and hexcrawl in ItO Remaster a good place to start? Anything in specific I should know and look out for?

>>96685420
I like my games to have an effective marine-based economy

>>96685739
Terrible choice. Just pick BX instead.. Would you pick some weird meme game if you don't even have a baseline to judge anything by?

>>96686452
Anon... I researched it before buying and bought it cuz I liked it. Now I want to run it. I spent ungodly amounts of hours reading various games and decided to go with this one, among many others, not BX. So your input is noted but doesn't help me.

>>96686597
Lmao
>Buying it
Enjoy!

>>96685739
I've been meaning to run the same adventure as well for a little while now
Tell me how it goes

>>96686452
>pick BX instead
please be a mature adult and stay on topic

>>96685739
sadly i havent runned ito yet, ive runned mythic and played electric bastionland
but the guys from mothership played a session with the creator
https://youtu.be/D46WpD9wSB0
and heres a module my friend recomended https://run-dmg.itch.io/new-rats
good luck anon post your report session after

>>96687204
OP literally says OSE is on-topic and it's just BX.
Did your janny app get denied? I should have recommended ACKS instead I guess.

>>96687438
>ESL

>>96654800
There are a few variations of this boxed set. Some of them came with these goofy CDs and the tracks were all of the read to players dialogue.
Some of them had additional material. Like there's a spelljammer adventure etc.
My buddy had a similar one that had plastic minis for all of the characters. It also came with a softcover book with a load of forgotten realms mini adventures. It was 2e lite pretty much. I ran through the box adventures while he DMed. We were running an ongoing Becmi RC game and were rolling with modlvay/mentzer B/X before then. Ended up switching to full 2e for a time.

>>96687542
Obviously both OSE and b/x belong in osrg that is already present in the catalog
>should have recommended ACKS instead I guess
Recommending a rule bloat instead of rules lite is pretty retarded not going to lie
But at least that would have been NuSR appropriate

>>96687204
>>96690087
Fishfag = falseflaggot trying to sabotage /nsrg/ is obvious.

>>96687438
>the guys from mothership played a session with the creator
Sick
For some reason I could not find it when searching for live plays
nta

>>96691009
nta, but randomly calling people fishfag for no reason whatsoever is absolutely the behavior of an ACKS shill. This character only exists so you can dismiss all criticism of your behavior as coming from a single source.

>>96691021
>nta
lol
lmao even

>>96691878
the thread is about new things, you fucking mentally deficient subhuman :3 lol

>>96691689
>You keep trying to make it about ACKS
lame gaslighting attempt
the first mention of acks in the entire reply chain was this post >>96687542

then for some reason ackshill had his regular demons out in >>96690666 (demon-appropriate 666)
and that was a reply to a post welcoming acks in the thread >>96690087

>>96691914
It literally says OSE is on topic, retard. >>96691910
OP determines the nature of the thread you disingenuous faggot.
Go start a "no OSE" thread somewhere else if you don't like it

>>96660841
Lol ok retard. It's not about AGE it's about educational generation.

>>96691959
let's read the words anon
>>96652488 (OP)
>the NSR is a subcategory of the OSR, it mostly follows the same play style but experiments further with the mechanics and settings
clearly a copy of mechanics/setting or the original mechanics/settings don't fall into that category
glad I could clear it up for you, I understand not everyone is fortunate enough to finish grade school, which is where your problem might lie
baby steps, anon, in just a little while you'll be reading like a true 4th grader

>>96691914
No it's not, it's about playing "nusr" not about necessarily discovering "new things". You seem to have a severe and fundamental misunderstanding of what any of these words mean.

>>96692056
>let's read the words anon
Yeah, let's do. Here directly from OP:
>>games
shadowdark, into the odd, mausritter, cairn, mörk borg (and its hacks), dungeon crawl classics, mothership, knave, troika!, whitehack, blackhack, OLD SCHOOL ESSENTIALS
Being a weird creepy little troll isn't a good look. This game is allowed as on topic for the thread as per OP.
You seriously just go into every thread looking for games that are being discussed so you can throw a fit?

>>96692076
>games: shadowdark, into the odd, mausritter, cairn, mörk borg (and its hacks), dungeon crawl classics, mothership, knave, troika!, whitehack, blackhack, OLD SCHOOL ESSENTIALS
Formatting error

>>96692056
>mostly follows the same play style but experiments further with the mechanics and settings
Sounds like ACKS is quite on topic, by this then.

>>96692076
You are maliciously not addressing the quote where the OP states what types of games are addressed by this general, you are maliciously ignoring that ose is best discussed in another existing general, you are maliciously quite on the fact that ose clearly doesn't belong in the subsection of those games, unless other retrocloness are included
You keep insisting something that could have been an error or a joke should take prescient over all the contradicting evidence
You have bared your weakness
But I will gratefully accept your concession as expressed in your exposed disingenuousness, needless to say we are done here
Run along little troll

>>96692148
Yes, acks is far enough in the realm of experimentation to be included in NuSR

>>96692148
>Sounds like ACKS is quite on topic, by this then.
Yes but it's not because reasons* so shut up and stop talking about it.

*Reasons being a code word for "Redditor drama bullshit"

Seriously, even their arguments are absurd by this point, "No one can talk about ACKS because it's a shit game"
Yeah, really? Personally I think Dungeon World is a shit game but you won't see me engaging in Canutian levels of hubris and trying to command the entire board to never speak of it again. Even if it were shit (Which it isn't mind you), people still talk about shit games all the time, if only to figure out why they're shit.
I mean fuck, how often does Beast: The Diddling get chewed over in the WoD general?

It takes a very specific mindset to think that people are going to disengage from something they're interested in because of you being a smug little wannabe janny faggot any time it comes up, waddling into the conversation to drop a "Heh, I don't know if you know this, maybe you're new here, but I already decided no one can talk about this so it'd be best if you stopped now, kiddo."
That mindset being one that's used to being able to downvote people into submission.

>>96689626
>It was 2e lite pretty much
Yeah, this one's similar. Super lite. Maybe too simplified even, like the spell descriptions are very basic in a way that would make it hard to rule them fairly for a kid with no D&D experience. Sleep just automatically works on 2d4 monsters, neglects to mention a HD limit or anything.

>Some of them came with these goofy CDs and the tracks were all of the read to players dialogue.
Sick, I would've loved some cheesy 90s bullshit like that. Mine unfortunately doesn't have any CDs or anything, just six dice, a TSR dice bag, the pre-gen character sheets, and B&W booklets for the basic rules and three adventures. The box is advertised "Includes everything you need to play!" and they made sure that was true, barely.

I'm suddenly remembering: We also separately got some metal minis from some hobby shop later to play through the adventure with. I was so disconnected from the rest of the gaming scene I didn't even know you were supposed to paint them, so we just left them bare metal.

Kind of a shame that we gave up after one TPK, but we would've bought it right around 2000, when WOTC released 3rd edition. Great time to try and get into a 2e starter set lmao. I wonder if that would've been a good time to get some cheap 2e books.

>>96692368
You are projecting extremely hard.
The OP outright says that old school essentials is an on-topic game.
No amount of tantrums or walls of text will change this.

>>96692148
ACKS is offtopic because it's a scam, not a game. It's not even a particularly good grift, considering how next to no one actually paid money for it and its player count is in the low hundreds.

>>96685739
Get a nice dungeon or heist, something small but very interactible. Let them know that they should try to play to win. Let them roll their own characters.
After that the rules are super simple, trust them. Have them roll for crits when they lose stat points, let them die, make them do new characters. If 1 or 2 die it will make their choices feel more important but if 5 or 6 die it will feel cheap and meaningless, that's why I recommended a pre-made small dungeon.

You can use Cairn adventures since it's basically the same thing.

>>96686452
>ItO
>weird meme game
go back to OSR if you're not gonna even pretend this is a different general.

>>96692064
what's N in NSR?


>>96692629
Let's pretend you're a genuinly confused anon so I can explain this for anyone who isn't being malicious.
OSE is mechanically B/X, some people buy it to have a nicely print hard cover rule book to run B/X.
OSE has a lot of adventures that will never be discussed in /osrg/ because they don't follow B/X editorial style.
There isn't a hard universal rule, but if you're on 4hcan and you say OSE to mean B/X then you go to the /osrg/. If you say OSE to mean Dream Shrine, Painted Wastelands, The Stygian Library, Holy Mountain Shaker, etc then it goes to the /nsrg/

It's not complicated at all if you're not a newfag. Any complain about this distinction is just saying that you never posted in /osrg/, never play an NSR game or you're just doing tantrums in some kind of age play thing.

>>96693091
>what's N in NSR?
Nigger?

>>96693091
"Nu" as in reference to "nu-metal".
That doesn't necessarily per se mean "new" things, as has been demonstrated, for somebody who hasn't played bx,, that game is new to them.
Why does OSE being on-topic turn you into such a salty faggot?

>>96693091
>Complaining that on-topic games are being discussed and recommended
Seriously, what drives you to this? Did your janitor application get denied so you just start lashing out at whatever autistic fixation you have?

>>96692820
>ACKS is offtopic because it's a scam, not a game
Fair enough
It is NuSR tough

>>96693340
The nu in NuMetal means new, though, like a new or modern update.

I don't give a shit about whether or not OSE is talked about here, but that's a weak argument.

>>96693340
Only 4chan contrarians say "Nu", look anywhere else and it's NSR.
Calling it Nu is admiting you don't play it, you don't talk with people who play it, you don't even read it. If you don't want to play WoD don't post in the WoD general, if you've never talked about NSR games before in your life don't come here trying to discuss what this games you don't play are.

>>96693367
>Complaining
I'm explaining something that is self evident for anyone with context

The Triptech people got hooked on making jams and they are setting up a new one. Mothership trifolds, it's implied the goal is tying it to Prospero's Dream but the theme isn't out yet. Are you guys thinking about joining?
https://itch.io/jam/triptech2

>>96691971
All human beings, regardless of education, find addition easier than subtraction, wannabe Boomer.

>>96695331
I agree, plus subtracting smaller numbers (THAC0 - AC) is faster than subtracting (THAC0 - d20). I mean this whole weird formula with subtracting bonuses and adding penalties, all just so the DM can keep monster AC a secret. I didn't even get why that's so important, we just openly announced AC at the table and it was fine. My immersion isn't going to be ruined just because my fighter knows how hard the enemy is to hit.

>>96685739
The Iron Coral works fine. Remember to read all of the combat rules and general dm advice. Don't just default to rolling under attribute for everything, save those for when there's actually an important unknown, otherwise run with your guts and keep the game moving. ItO's best parts are doing dungeon crawling nusr asap. Have some replacement characters ready to go on index cards and shuffle them out as needed.
I have a deck of random items from Maze Rat's tables to pass to players at character gen as well so they have a bit more stuff.
Don't worry too much about monster stats, just use
>less than human, 6
>same as human, 10
>more than human 14
and move on with the game.
iirc there was an old blog post of general ito advice on his blog ages ago. The Apocrypha Primer is not bad.

>>96692820
Most nusr is a grift tho.

>>96693091
> If you say OSE to mean Dream Shrine, Painted Wastelands, The Stygian Library,
Stygian Library and its predecessor was made on /osrg/.

>>96693782
>Calling it Nu is admiting you don't play it,
I've been running ItO since it was a pdf called Bastion and had rules for making your own different guns being posted on /osrg/ and I call it nusr.

>>96693782
>Only 4chan contrarians say "Nu"
False. Also you're getting your panties in a bunch over something of no significance or consequence.

>>96692530
>The CD
You can find uploads of it on youtube and find full rips of it on a couple sites. Along with full PDFs of the other starter sets. Yellow box etc.
>2000 and 3e
Eh I skipped 3e and jumped into 3.5. We still ran Becmi and 3e. Mom and pop used bookshops were pretty well flooded with 2e stuff for cheap around that timeframe. My 2e stuff was actually stolen. My core books anyways.
Yes it was a good time to get 2e stuff because it was everywhere. I think I paid like 10 bucks on ebay for a replacement 2e core set. Also picked up a collection of the Complete books for around 5 bucks each.
Becmi stuff was the same. I ended up just collecting around 2005-2006 because it was super cheap. Moldvay/Mentzer editions etc.
One thing I remember that was pretty cool about the starter set that my buddy had was the giant poster map. The adventure was Tomb of Damara and some Haunted House on the other side. I remember the Haunted House had a gotcha trap in the basement that if you didn't find the McGuffin 1st you got locked in with a Ghost of all things (level 2 characters at best) and it just stated that you died. If you found the McGuffin then old mans soul got sucked into a corpse and you fought a freaking Ju-Ju Zombie.
It was supposed to be played after the 1st adventure and I'm pretty sure that you only had access to 1 or maybe 2 magic weapons at that point. That fight was purely up to the RNG gods being on your side.
The 3rd adventure was some cave to take out some level 5 wizard. But there was also a younger red dragon skulking around that could absolutely decimate your entire party of level 3-4 dudes with a single breath weapon unless they had high AF HPs + made their saves. WIzards were just toast even then.
It had several premade characters + rules to create your own.

>>96696099
I can see why you would surprise your players wih a mystery AC from time to time but it being the norm isn't needed indeed. Not at the price of sligthly harder math anyway, there's already a lot to do on the GM side amd my hands are full.

>>96693782
NSR is an acronym you fucking moron lmao
>>96693456
No one says "new metal", they say "nu-metal".

>>96695331
I'm not fucking talking about whether or not addition or subtract is easier, I'm saying that for people of an equivalent age, those who are from the 1980s are much better at mathematics than those today on average.
Fuck sakes people like you just want to bitch and moan and complain about everyone and everything

>>96696099
>I mean this whole weird formula with subtracting bonuses and adding penalties, all just so the DM can keep monster AC a secret. I didn't even get why that's so important, we just openly announced AC at the table and it was fine.
It's not, the whole idea is a post hoc justification. The actual reason AC is "backwards" is that it's based on Arneson doing a civil war naval wargame (homebrew, I think, given there's no published game fitting the description he gives, but he said as much in interviews); higher class ships were bigger, and thus easier to hit.

If you actually want to obscure the monster's AC, you could just... not tell the players the monster's AC. Then they roll and add their bonus, and you tell them if they hit or not. Eventually they'll figure out the monster's AC when a 12 misses and a 13 hits, but the same would happen with THAC0.

>>96699389
>The actual reason AC is "backwards" is that it's based on Arneson doing a civil war naval wargame
Completely wrong

>>96699424
http://uk.pc.gamespy.com/articles/540/540395p3.html

>I adopted the rules I'd done earlier for a Civil War game called Ironclads that had hit points and armor class.

You can see in Don't Give Up The Ship that a higher ship class = a larger ship.

Fuck off and suck my whole cock.

>>96699435
That article has nothing to do with
>"The actual reason AC is backwards is ...higher class ships were bigger, and thus easier to hit
You just read that he used part of ironclads to come up with AC and HP in general, and completely ran off track with it.

>>96699464
1. He took the AC system from a naval wargame.
2. In naval wargames, a higher ship CLASS mean that the ship is physically larger, which would make them easier to hit.
3. In OD&D/Chainmail, a higher armor CLASS means that the character is easier to hit.

It is not "completely running off track with it," it is just the obvious, straightforward reading of the text and running a minimum level of brainpower on it to reach a conclusion.

Of course, you're free to reveal your own sources that contradict this, but you won't, you're just an annoying little faggot.

>>96699479
Making shit up based on implications isn't the same as authenticating its authenticity.
At no point did he ever state or support the claim you are making. Go ahead and show me exactly what naval system you are referencing and on what page it demonstrates what you are saying.
I will wait, feel free to take your time.

>>96699532
Do you think this debate club pedantry horse shit is persuasive to anyone? Suck my whole cock, faggot. I'm not researching fuck all more, if you want to disprove me, actually do it instead of this garbage. You won't, because you can't, because all you can do is demand people waste their time talking to you, and if they refuse, you declare victory.

>>96699532
Another anon you're not talking to, I also think you're making an exceptionally poor argument that's easy to see through and I think you're losing in my eyes. Just saying.

>>96699556
>>96699542
The supposed evidence doesnt exist, and you wont post it, because youre wrong.
Just accept the loss and move on.

>>96699315
>No one says "new metal", they say "nu-metal
Aside from the fact that those two things literally sound exactly the same, my point was that they mean exactly the same thing, too.

>>96700019!
>theyre the exact same, just different
retard

>>96699532
>Go ahead and show me exactly what naval system you are referencing
NTA. It's common knowledge that the D&D AC is from naval wargames.

>>96700861
>>96699532
Five hours later and I'm still waiting.

>>96700155
Do you have a learning disability? I'm not saying "they are exactly the same, just different." I'm saying that they are exactly the same. Nu means nu, both in the context of NuMetal and in the context of NuSR. They are fucking homophones.

>>96701581
*Nu means new.

>>96701581
Homophones are not congruent synonyms.
I'm sorry that you have fallen into this autistic rabbit hole and cannot escape from it, but you're wrong, and no amount of nitpick pilpul will save you.

>>96699831
>The supposed evidence doesnt exist, and you wont post it, because youre wrong.
The other anon here (one you caught in your replies). Even if we were to presume that the evidence that the other anon presented wasn't "real" evidence (which I feel personally that it has sufficiently fulfilled this criteria for me), then there's still the matter of fact that he has presented something, even circumstantial, and you have presented *checks notes* nothing.

I'm still on his side even if he does nothing else.

>>96700019
>they mean exactly the same thing, too
Okay this is veering wildly off topic but "numetal" and "new metal" absolutely do not mean the same thing lol

>>96703544
>>96701619
Explain to me what the Nu in NuMetal means then. Please, enlighten us.

>>96704036
"Nu-metal" is a (shitty) genre of music, "new metal" is metal that came out recently. "Nu" comes from "new" but that doesn't mean that the two terms "mean exactly the same thing." If somebody posts "I bought some new metal albums this week" you don't immediately assume they're talking about Korn and Limp Bizkit. If they said it out loud, they might have to clarify "I mean newly-released albums not nu-metal" because the words sound the same but mean different things.

Planning to run Dolmenwood's setting using Shadowdark. Anyone know of any conversion guides floating around?

>>96704077
>"Nu" comes from "new"
Which is what I fucking said originally. Jfc. What does this fucking pedantic nitpicking get you?

>>96704429
Noyu

>>96704096
No one plays games in this thread. They can't even read the rules to an ultralight.

>>96704429
I guess I have to admit I don't understand your point then. I mean you have to see how I'd be confused since you literally said that 'new' and 'nu-' "mean exactly the same thing".

>>96697882
>and it just stated that you died
Yeah these adventures have some similar gotchas. Nothing quite THAT bad, but the second adventure is about rescuing a girl and you straight up just can't get into the tower she's in unless you have a Thief or the Wizard memorized the "Knock" spell. Like it straight up says the door cannot be forced and they didn't put a key anywhere in the adventure from what I can tell.

>It had several premade characters + rules to create your own.
I think chargen rules are the biggest thing my set is missing. I totally get why they'd want to not include them, to simplify things as much as possible, but making your own guy is such a fundamental draw of the game. They don't even have a table for ability modifiers, so it's not clear what the hell you're supposed to do when the vampire drains somebody's Constitution.

I hand out physical item cards the important loot in my DCC game, sometimes I worry I'm too jokey.

>>96704871
>Giga door
Yeah that's kinda BS. I'll have to look up that specific book and give it a read. As far as chargen goes in the book I was talking about it had the full stat tables for 2e. Fighter Str and con bonuses included. But just Fighter, Thief, Cleric and Wizard for classes. No weapon specialization stuff nor skills. It had the bare core races. Plus 12 or so spells for wizards and clerics up to level 3. Pretty much the Basic D&D spell array. Poison was save or die.
There was a pamplet included as well with adverts for the Rules Cyclopedian & 2nd Edition catalogue in the set.
Oddly enough the little Forgotten Realms splatbook had a load of monsters that weren't included in the boxed monster manual that you could lift and use.

>>96704096
Dolmenwood is meant for long campaigns, Shadowdark isn't. Can't say I recommend the combo.

>>96704096
I'm pretty sure I've read that there were people doing a conversion on the Shadowdark Discord, that'd been a good place to check if you haven't

>>96704096
Curious as to why considering Dolmenwood comes attached with its own particular ruleset.

>>96700861
>>96700861
24 hours later, and still no evidence.
Thanks for playing!

>>96704096
Lmao kys

>>96707255
Can you tell me exactly what it is that you are so loudly sceptical of? You don't believe that Arneson took armor class and hit points from a naval wargame? Or something else?

>>96707545
If you can follow the reply chain, you can read it for yourself.

>>96704963
Nah handouts are nice.
Also jokey is good imo. Alot of nusr, dcc, especially go for an over the top gonzo style. Jokey, as long as the game is being played, helps cut the cringe into something enjoyable

>>96707560
I've read the reply chain. You keep saying "completely wrong" but you never say what exactly what it is that you think is wrong. If that's your way of discussing, don't be surprised if people don't take you too seriously.

>>96705137
Ive been running a weekly shadowdark campaign for almost 2 years. How is it not made for long campaigns???
>>96705356
TY I'll check it out.
>>96707221
We already play shadowdark. We don't like Vancian casting. Roll to Cast is more fun
>>96707268
that's not very nice

>>96707583
You can't prove the bullshit claim, nor can you provide the evidence outside of "dude trust me!"

>>96712203
How can you declare it "completely wrong" if you have 0 evidence to the contrary?

I mean, I know how, you're an annoying faggot who pops between threads to argue like this because you're a subhuman enemy of humanity, but you could at least explain in some other way.

>>96712365
Somebody else made the claim, I asked for evidence, and evidence cannot be presented.
Please, by all means defend the point, but the burden of proof is on you.

>>96715388
Neither the original Anon nor the Anon you just replied to.

Original Anon did present evidence.

You dismissed the evidence as "making shit up". Then you refused to say what was supposedly made up about that evidence. Then a different Anon asked you what was made up about it, and you doubled down on the refusal to elaborate.

Seems like you were proved wrong, felt humiliated, are unable to admit it, and are overcompensating for that by being obnoxious.

In other words, you're either a child or an adult with a developmental deficit of some kind.

>>96715388
No, that is not what happened.

An anon made a post claiming inverting AC was due to an inheritance from naval wargaming: >>96699389

You made a reply >>96699424 claiming it was "Completely wrong." You did not ask for evidence, only stating that anon was "completely wrong;" anon refuted it, voluntarily providing evidence without any prompting from you. Then you spent multiple days doing this stupid bullshit, claiming victory, which you will continue to do until the sun burns out.

Ran my first game of Cairn (well, technically two) for my two buddies. To give a bit of context, we've played a few RPGs in the past, but due to scheduling issues we at most went 3 sessions deep into a "campaign". This was my first time running OSR-adjacent game, plus it was a few months since I GM'd, so I went ahead and ran Temple of the Serpent Kings.

I've had my players roll 3 characters each, for a total of 6. I've warned them that the dungeon will be pretty deadly and that "combat is a choice and rarely a good one".

All in all, it was pretty fun for all parties involved. My players left me both impressed with their creativity and dumbfounded at their stupidity. One of them even asked the following day if we could continue since all of us had a few hours of free time (hence technically it was two games).

Though after going about third through TotSK, I think I'm not really sold by it. My players are just about to enter the arena with "Stone Cobra Guardian" and the more I think about it the lamer it is. Having a "boss fight" doesn't exactly mesh well with the whole "combat is a choice" paradigm. Then again, maybe that's on me, since I've set up the dungeon in a way that prevents my players from leaving. Anyway, I'm thinking of putting a puzzle in there, but don't have a good idea yet. Maybe a puzzle that penalises brute force with combat?

>>96717178
What about a bunch of skeletons trapped in skeleton-shaped clay urns? If the players start smashing them, the skeletons all animate and it's a massacre. They can sneak through instead, or figure out how to hit all the skeletons at once (e.g. tying ropes around every urn and throwing a weight off the edge of the cliff).

>>96716200
He presented zero evidence, all he did was linked to an interview where the topic was tangentially referenced.
Provide the actual factual evidence or go kill yourself.

>>96716716
I asked for evidence over 48 hours ago, and it cannot be presented. Thanks for trying, but you're retarded unfounded claim will continue to be unfounded and retarded.

>>96718896
>>96718892
Literally all you guys have to do is post the actual hardproof in the form of evidence, not just some vague off-handed reference made in an interview that doesn't describe the actual topic at hand.

Anyone got a pdf of the cursed scroll zine 1? I dont wanna pay $20 for a pdf

>>96717178
Isn't the puzzle the goods on the wall? You have a guardian stomping around there and have to take a few rounds to pull off the items, which I think might attack you or something. I don't remember too well. Should probably crack open the pdf before I solve the captcha and click post or something.

...

>>96717178
>the more I think about it the lamer it is.
Totsk in a nutshell.

>>96718896
>>96718910
You did not admit to being wrong about having asked for evidence, so why would anyone engage with you? You're obviously a bad faith obnoxious twat.

>>96718892
>He did present evidence, but I'm too butthurt to admit that, so I'll call the evidence "an interview where the topic was tangentially referenced", as if an interview in which Arneson said he took Armor Class from naval wargames isn't evidence that Arneson took Armor Class from naval wargames.

>>96717336
Pretty cool idea, though I bet my players would come up with way sillier solution. Also, I kind of want something there that would cut off the lower tomb from the upper, so once the players "open" it, they get wandering monsters on upper levels too.

>>96718991
The guardian attacks on sight and pulls the shields off the wall during combat. After he's defeated, the players can get the shields themselves, although it takes time.

>>96719000
Yeaaah, it's cool in concept and my players dig the idea of going into a trapped and dangerous tomb, but the execution is a mixed bag.

>>96654477
>Yaksha also says Chris McDowall ... is an “egotistical jackass”
What a vapid complaint. Is there any actual critism of McDowall beyond him associating with literal retards who (try to) talk shit about him behind his back.

>I always feel vindictive satisfaction when people who already annoyed me get cancelled
It feels good but it's the same mechanism that neutered the wormskins. Enjoy it if you can but 'cancelling' needs to be crushed.

>>96717178
>Cairn
You'd have to tie me to a chair and strap electrodes to my nipples before I touched that game. Glad you had fun though Anon.

>>96721085
>You'd have to tie me to a chair and strap electrodes to my nipples before I touched that game.
Why? My friends can't seem to wrap their heads around D&D, especially all the options that casters get, so simple "tell me what you want to do, if it's risky then I'll tell you to roll a relevant save" worked for them.

>>96721218
I can wrap my head around dnd and I like longer campaigns so I can do something more interesting than buying a pub and retiring before session 10. The creator stealing near every word he's ever published does nothing to improve my opinion of it.

>"tell me what you want to do, if it's risky then I'll tell you to roll a relevant save"
A good way to do it. Picking a system where the players can learn the rules if they want, elsewise I can adjudicate it without having to play 20 Questions. As Arneson intented.

Has anybody tried "Block, Parry, Dodge?" I have zero interest in Cairn but it came up in a discussion of how to make weapon choice interesting in OSR games. There's a free SRD but it's hard for me to get a feel for how it all fits together just from reading it, and you should never pay $20 for a pdf.

>>96722504
>it came up in a discussion of how to make weapon choice interesting in OSR games
That problem was solved in 1971 with the publication of Chainmail.

>>96721262
>elsewise I can adjudicate it without having to play 20 Questions. As Arneson intented.
Actually I'm pretty sure a lot of the older grognards like Gary and Tim Kask openly said that newer players don't ask enough questions and that's why they tend to get raped in older styles of gaming.

>>96720836
>though I bet my players would come up with way sillier solution.
All the more reason to implement it.
>so once the players "open" it, they get wandering monsters on upper levels too.
That can make the upper tomb a bit tedious. Too much grinding down the same corridors, whacking wandering monsters, and not enough exploring.

>>96722504
Should be in the nusr place with the stuff.

>>96725727
>Should be in the nusr place with the stuff.
found it, thanks bro
Also paging this guy, >>96718981 to check the share thread

>>96717178
>Though after going about third through TotSK, I think I'm not really sold by it.
Tomb of the Serpent King is great for showing examples of things that come up during gameplay but it doesn't really stand on its feet past that IMO.

>>96722861
Players asking questions is right and good. I(the referee) don't want to have to bother with finding out which bonuses from 9 different possible sources every time a dice is rolled.

>>96722632
>it came up in a discussion of how to make weapon choice interesting in OSR games
>That problem was solved in 1971 with the publication of Chainmail.
The weapon vs armor matrix is cool but the way it handles attack priority/parries is poorly explained and gets messy when there are multiple combatants, and especially when individual fighters are fighting as multiple "men".
I also don't like how it shits all over spears and makes Flails OP as fuck but it's easy to tweak the numbers I guess.

I've been reading more of the Block Dodge Parry rules and it's closer to what I want, but a lot of the weapon effects are tied into the very specific, non-D&D way they handle armor, wounds, and ability saves. It's definitely not an easy "Just plug this into your B/X game bro ezpz!!!" solution the way it was pitched to me.

>>96727839
>Tomb of the Serpent King is great for showing examples of things that come up during gameplay
It's not good for that either. It's pedantic, soulless, boring, railroady, and it does that in attempt to offer a solution for a problem that doesn't exist in the first place: People can just learn by playing the actual game, no need for training wheels.

>>96728128
>the way it handles attack priority/parries is poorly explained
Indeed.

>and gets messy when there are multiple combatants, and especially when individual fighters are fighting as multiple "men".
Agree, the part on the effects of weapon length/speed was meant to be used for 1vs1 combat. But you can still use the 2d6 tables for weapons vs armour while ignoring weapon length.

>>96728128
Sorry, missed this part.
>I also don't like how it shits all over spears and makes Flails OP as fuck but it's easy to tweak the numbers I guess.
Yeah, there's a couple of things that could be tweaked, but remember that spears can be used against charges for double damage, thrown, and used with a shield, so they get lots of compensation for the crappy attack thresholds.

(And if I remember correctly, they also get a big bonus against prone targets in plate armor.)

Is this the thread where people make outlandish unsourced claims and then absolutely refuse to give any type of evidence on backing them up?

>>96731156
that's every thread so yeah sure

>>96727700
thanks anon, heres a zombie i'm proud of as compensation

>>96719241
I asked for evidence four fucking days ago, moron. You just keep coming up with reasons why you don't have to post your evidence, and that's fine, but it makes you a liar and a bitch

>>96734151
he looks very polite so he can stay

>>96734878
You stated that the original anon was "completely wrong." You didn't ask for evidence then. You won't admit you said that based on nothing. Nobody cares about your stupid filibustering, because you are obviously bad faith and the original poster already provided evidence.

Admit you were in the wrong to confidently claim "completely wrong", and you have no idea why AC used to be descending, or else provide evidence of your own.

New School Revolution?

>/todd/ dies once again
How many threads did it last this time, four?

>>96743968
Don't be a dick, fellow /osrg/ poster. This time /nsrg/ was created explicitly in friendship with /osrg/, there's nothing to celebrate if it fails.

>>96744501
Okay but you realize there's just you and me in here, right? For good or ill, it's deader than disco.

>>96745196
>For good or ill, it's deader than disco.
a total win for GR/OsRG/s
finally, something worthwhile accomplished!

Just started prepping AWN, and I'm excited to run it.

>>96744501
It probably shouldn't have been, especially considering how even this thread started out with some sabotage from the most malignant posters on this board.

>>96745196
The /osrg/ isn't exactly vibrant and full of life either.

Anyone got the Mothership Gradient Descent blank map by any chance? All the floors on one page without the colored background so it's easy to print. It was available on the mothership discord but I don't use that shit.

Is Forbidden Lands NSR?

>>96748164
Sure, why not.
I bought the forbidden lands box optimistically thinking I could lure my friends into playing it, but regrettably it doesn't say "Dungeons & Dragons" on the box so zero interest. I'm going to play a bit solo once I've wrapped up my Scarlet Heroes campaign.

>>96748164
nah
might as well call gurps- or BRP-based games NSR at this point so there is absolutely no meaning to any words we use
>>96749276
sorry to hear it anon, I really like the game and was fortunate enough to find people who would like to play
I didn't have a steady group prior though, so I could afford to look for new players
FL solo works well enough with the core set, which includes Legends booklet, and you don't really need the Book of Beast w/ solo rules section if you already have experience with solo play and have some generic oracle
But it does contain some helpful game/setting specific tables
- names based on kin
- ravenlands/bitterreach factions
- a more elaborate random encounter table than the one from the GMG

>>96748164
I'm a sucker for Free League stuff, got their Borgs and Death in Space. We recently played Blade Runner, and we've got, like, the most creative character ideas I've seen in years in my gaming group, thanks to the random tables.

The "shifts" mechanic (four separate scenes a day), looked boardgamey at first, but kept the action smooth and fast. It's the first time in my life where splitting the group worked great, letting cover more at once, felt just like moving the spotlight between players in a normal scene.

Haven't seen Forbidden Lands, but those guys are quality all across the board and def know what they're doing.

>>96721262
Not a drama person. What's up with "the creator stealing near every word he's ever published"?

>>96746657
>even this thread started out with some sabotage
The thread got started with a "no acks edition" tag right on top. Whoever did that was flamebaiting, blame him.

>>96749989
True that ACKS is the spearhead of NuSR and has its rightful place in this thread

>>96747775
Thank you anon, where did you find it? There is the fillable player map too? That thing.

>>96746657
Talking about games? sAbOtAgE!!!

>>96749276
the >>96749544 anon here
I took everything game-specific that IMO might be helpful even if you already know your way around oracles and compiled it into picrel so you don't have to get Book of Beasts on top

>>96750214
Anon quit talking about games that aren't mothership and OSE, that's sabotaging the thread.

I was about to tell a story about the session I was in, but then I remembered that would be sabotaging the thread.
Does anyone have a definition for what DOESN'T count as sabotaging the thread? Or are we still busy trying to define NSR in a way that actually works

>>96750268
You want to tell a story? Just do it fuck everyone who cares FL doesn't have a thread for himself, osr thread got retards arguing about what game is osr and which isn't that's 80% of the thread so tell your story here anon go for it stop asking.

>>96750222
>>96750268
look you are obviously here to start shit and not discuss games no wonder you are salty you got called out

You guys sell me on Forbidden Lands. I have a cheeky 8yo boy that started it's way into classic 80s movies such as Jurassic Park/Ghostbusters so he can take a bit of adventuring out of candyland. My wife is autistic and always pointing out inconsistencies and obvious plots while at the table so it's really hard to create a mood when she's here but hey... It's the price to pay if I don't want to GM just for him and want consistent games whithout waiting for his group friend to confirm or their parents going satanic panic/pedohunting on me.

I have the whole Classic OSE boxset but I feel B/X might be the right mood but slightly too crunchy for is age? Like it's not the end of the world but still way above Free Leagues usual "roll the dice and check for how many 6s".

>>96750134
Unlike you, I don't care about how ACKS is classified, but I certainly prefer the odd comment about ACKS that I can ignore over a flamebait tag right at the top of the thread and people retaliating exactly as the flamebait tag intended.

>>96750415
>B/X might be the right mood but slightly too crunchy for is age?
I started with BECMI when I was 9, with no outside assistance. Unless your son is slow, he can certainly handle B/X with your guidance.

>>96750448
Not saying it's out of reach, just wandering if FL would be a better starter now that we are spoiled with choices? I think I remember it comes with a map and stickers, sounds like a nice memento to put in the living room so there's that.

>>96746657
>talking about games is sabotage
>/osrg/ being a chill and fairly slow general when it isn't being trolled into the ground is a bad thing

>>96750415
is this bait?
I feel nothing in this post could have been written seriously

>>96749989
You are more feces than person, and all blame goes to you.

>>96750620
Sorry if my life sucks anon. I've moved town long ago and refuse to play remotely as I love the flesh and blood interaction of tabletop roleplaying. I have my little family to take care of so I never found time to build a group from the ground and, quite frankly, I'd prefer to make memories with my little one than strangers.

So here I am, wondering if FL would be a better starting experience for my boy; knowing that his sparing partner will be his autistic mom: a lovely wife but a really snob roleplayer always pointing at flaws in the story/universe.
I'm not blaming her, I was exactly like this when watching a movie during my teenagehood, but it's important enough to point out I guess. Maybe FL is more foolproof to that or maybe it's goodawful at it and requires a lot of suspension of disbelief? What do I know?

The part about the parents going on a satanic panic or pedohunt was me taking the piss though. :^)
I just can't bother having my boy super pumped up for tonight's game just to have one friend or two making a rain check and the whole thing turning sour. I guess we'll get there naturaly other time.

>>96750268
>Does anyone have a definition for what DOESN'T count as sabotaging the thread?
Anyone posting things I don't like. The entire thread is for my personal entertainment. If you're not doing that its sabotage.

>>96750494
choice shmoice

As he grows up and learns to appreciate stuff, your child is going to feel much more proud having been introduced to RPGs through one of the greatest classics, that will in all probability still be known 40 years from now, than through a random fad from 2025.

>>96750268
>>96750726
Can you fuck the fuck off already?
No one wants you here. No one wants you anywhere.

>>96750750
See like this anon, he found some sabotage.

>>96750702
FL says 14+ on the box and wholeheartedly agree
what you need is something like the Land of Eem
or just do a BX game in a lighthearted setting

>>96750214
This rules, thanks bro. I'm going to dust off the box and give it a try soon

>>96751162
my pleasure anon
it's a fun game, not without downfalls, but it's pretty good

>>96735319
No evidence was EVER presented, and youre just a lying weaselly little worm.

>>96750360
>osr thread got retards arguing about what game is osr and which isn't
no, its about retards posting OFF TOPIC GAMES

>>96752798
Evidence was presented, you just dismissed it, and you continue to refuse to so much as admit that you said that the anon was wrong, so why would anybody engage with you? You're the weaselly worm here, buddy.

>>96752880
>Evidence was presented
a vague unsourced implication is not "evidence" you snivelling little lying cretin
>n-no u!
fucking weak

>>96753613
Yes, I get it, you just try to do this annoying argument "style" where you lie and dissemble, that's why nobody will engage with you. Maybe you should try simply admitting that you were wrong to confidently say that AC is not derived from naval wargames, and then perhaps the conversation can move on, but with your behavior, no one is interested in talking to you.

>>96750415
Knave was made by a teacher to run after school games. It doesn't have gory critical hit tables, and the spellbooks are clean, without stuff such as necromancy etc

>>96655666
Checked and you're right this time, Satan. But we'll get you NEXT time!

>>96750702
>knowing that his sparing partner will be his autistic mom: a lovely wife but a really snob roleplayer always pointing at flaws in the story/universe.
Watch an 80s cartoon series called "Dinosaurs and Cadillacs". Really stupid name, one of the smartest shows I've ever watched in my life.

>>96757009
>one of the smartest shows I've ever watched in my life
grim

>>96750415
What the fuck is this post

>>96757471
>the poster never reacted to actually helpful replies
it's called bait son

To make it really clear at the start, this is my first post in this general. I'm not one of the guys who has taken part in the little dumpster fire to date. I don't know and I don't care which of the posts I've quoted are by one person or another.

>>96699464
>You just read that he used part of ironclads to come up with AC and HP in general, and completely ran off track with it.

Arneson's claim is spurious at best.

>>96699435
>>I adopted the rules I'd done earlier for a Civil War game called Ironclads that had hit points and armor class.
As someone who researched this a while ago, that claim by Arneson might be the start of your problem. As far as I can find Arneson is wrong, he didn't author a game called Ironclads.

Ironclad and American Civil War Naval Wargames Rules is a UK game from 1971.
Ironclad is by Tom Wham and Don Lowry from 1973, written by them to sell their miniatures.
The Ironclads is by John Fuseler from 1979, after D&D.
I can find no evidence of a game called Ironclads until after D&D, and its mostly in reference to video games, and no evidence Arneson wrote a game of that name. He did write Don't Give Up The Ship. Both it and Ironclad were published by Guidon Games before D&D. Neither of them use armour class.

>cont

>>96758086
Ironclad has armour boxes not armour class. More armour boxes are better. (High good, low bad, opposite of AC.) All weapons hit. An attack by a weapon with high enough penetration factor causes damage according to a d6 roll on a chart. Low PF only does damage if a d6 roll on another chart gave a result greater than the ship's battering factor. Some damage rolls might lead to losing armour boxes. If a ship doesn't blow up due to a critical or lucky hit, it sinks when all its draft boxes have been attrited. In this way draft boxes are like hp but the idea of marking off damage boxes or losing endurance points until a unit is destroyed was nothing new, even Battleship had that decades before.

DGUtS attack rolls are d6 vs ranges 4/8/12/16" and are aimed high or low.
At 4": 1-3 hit where you aim, otherwise miss
At 8": 1-2 hit where you aim, 3 hit other point, otherwise miss
At 12": 1 hit where you aim, 2 hit other point for half damage, otherwise miss
At 16": 1 hit high for half damage, otherwise miss
High hits damage masts and rigging which will slow the ship. Low shots kill crew -- fewer available to sail, shoot, pump, repair, fight in melee, etc -- and damage the hull -- with a chance to cause fire, flood the hull, or blow the magazine. Ships can be captured by boarding, can surrender with low enough morale, and with enough low damage they will sink.

>>96699435
>You can see in Don't Give Up The Ship that a higher ship class = a larger ship.
There are heavier ships in DGUtS, they can have more crew and carry more guns. Please quote the rule and the page it is on where there is any mention of armour class and it being higher/easier to hit for a bigger ship.

>cont

>>96758108


>>96699479
>1. He took the AC system from a naval wargame.
Name it. As indicated, he did not write Ironclads but even if he had it wouldn't matter as neither that nor DGUtS uses AC.

>2. In naval wargames, a higher ship CLASS mean that the ship is physically larger, which would make them easier to hit.
In Ironclad all shots hit. In DGUtS shots hit depending upon range. Neither of those games have any dependence upon size. The UK game was also d6 versus range, no size dependence.

>It is not "completely running off track with it," it is just the obvious, straightforward reading of the text and running a minimum level of brainpower on it to reach a conclusion.
Yes it is, because you've run entirely counter to how the two Guidon Games naval games work. You've reached wrong conclusions based off wrong information. You've made zero effort to either verify the information or find out how naval games worked at the time.

>Of course, you're free to reveal your own sources that contradict this, but you won't,
My sources are multiple listings of publications of various game companies and authors, biographies and bibliographies of Arneson and Wham, the game designer, not the pop duo from ths 80s, histories of wargames and role playing games and familiarity with various wargames. Too many to bother listing. You have to name two at most: the game Irocnlad he allegedly wrote; the game that he took AC from in case it's not the same.

More importantly, I've actually read the rules of the games mentioned so I'm not talking out my rear end which is what a lot of the rest of this part of the thread looks people are doing.

>end

>>96757085
What's the smartest show YOU've watched?

>>96757758
Nah, I took note. I'll buy the Forbidden Lands map with reusable stickers for game support but use my OSE boxset for rules and setting. I ended up watching a video of FL and it being 476 pages accross 2 books VS 300 pages accross 4 books for OSE convinced me it was not necessarily an easier game to manage or parse through. If I die in a randumb accident he'll grow up into a DnDrone thinking I loved the brand for the brand itself and not OSE for being a classic so there will be one more soulless person into this world but this one will be on you guys.

>>96758086
>As someone who researched this a while ago, that claim by Arneson might be the start of your problem. As far as I can find Arneson is wrong, he didn't author a game called Ironclads.
>>96758114
>Name it. As indicated, he did not write Ironclads but even if he had it wouldn't matter as neither that nor DGUtS uses AC.
People run RPGs and wargames without ever publishing them formally. Ironclads is a fairly basic name for such a home game.

The interpretation that Arneson is just making the whole thing up is a pretty big one.

>>96757009
Hey nice. What if I trigger a new persona for her though? Any cool character she might suddenly try to mimick to navigate the social world? Maybe she'll get me a Cadillac for my 40s!

>>96758771
Geez anon they'll think we're the same idiot but I'm a really different kind of idiot. For one I don't answer to obnoxious posters that posted nothing but bait and flame. This shit as been dragging on for half the thread, you guys let it die please.

Are there good Orbital Blues one shots?
I feel that everything is very aimed at campaigns, but I don't want to rope people into multiple sessions of something I haven't tried and they might not be into. I want something simple that can show more mechanics than just the basic system resolution.

>>96755111
Knave also has some really good modules, it's a mixed bag because you can just make them without any approval but it had a couple jams with at least a few pieces of gold each.

>>96762510
just realized he's Questing Beast on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4lvrC3ZBzM

Any tips to running Tunnel Goons?
I'm gonna run a hack of it for halloween and I'm pretty sure I understand the mechanics and shit, but I want to know if there are underlying things to focus on or things it's particularly good at.

>>96762618
Questing Beast is a teacher? What does he teach?

>>96764648
5th grade math and science

>>96764756
Sucks to suck.

>>96764756
that's actually pretty based