Thread 96690892

Pellaeon-class Edition

Previous: >>96627955

A thread for discussing the Star Wars franchise and its various media and tabletop games.

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Thread Question: Do you use Pellaeon-class Star Destroyers in your games?

Nobody sets games in fucking Legacy!

>two threads in a row
Pellaeon-sama...

>>96690923
That is because post OT Luke is a cancer for games. The troglodytes who beat off to his novels from the era torpedo games.

>>96690923
I do and I don't use the Pellaeon lol

>the thread is so dead only Pallaeonfag bothers to make new ones
Grim

>>96690923
>>96690935
>>96690964
>>96690969
>>96690971
It's the best ship in Star Wars, fuck grognards who only care about muh OT

>>96690892 (OP)
>>96690923
>>96690986
>>96691027
At what point can we start considering this avatar posting?

>>96690971
That's what happens when all the games posters are constantly drowned out by endless /tv/ fags who only subsist on new content

>>96691055
It's on-topic.

yooo you can see it from all angles here

One of my FFG players is a schizo battle-droid, his obligation is his deteriorating mind. It already generated a second personality that is secretly working for a Separatist enclave (and has the ultimate goal of ending sentience as a concept) but his obligation got rolled again and its at 15 magnitude. I want something big to happen and I'm between ideas
>Second personality finally betrays main droid and the group, calling in a Separatist goon squad to extract them
>A third personality, one that is just a violent droid that murder hobos makes an appearance, fracturing his mind further
>Second personality takes on the murderhobo aspect as it is getting increasingly agitated at not being in full control

>>96691077
All right, bring actual arguments on what makes Palleaon-class a good capital ship, disregard any arguments on aesthetic point, and why would anyone use Legacy as a setting to play in, which is the main requirement for even running those.

>>96690964
I dunno. I find post OT Luke as an encounter. I once ran a Stormtrooper campaign where for Halloween i ran a session where they got trapped aboard a space-station with Luke. Obviously, his reputation as "That guy who murked Vader and Palpatine and everyone else on the Death Star all by himself" Made the party assume he was some kind of epic boss encounter and they kept running away from him. Actually, Luke just wanted to help them get off the station so he could use it for his own purposes and he only fought back in self defense.

>A Jedi only uses his power to help and aid others. Never to attack.

>>96691098
I don't remember this part of Legacy well enough to recall: is the Imperious really mirrored on the underside like it's depicted here, or is this artistic license by the modeller?

reposting
Need help wrapping my head around something since my party are going to have a not!battle over the pit of carkoon
In the rules for the sarlacc, prey that are swallowed into its primary stomach can "escape back through the alimentary canal by succeeding on an Acrobatics check opposed by the Sarlacc's Strength check (+9 modifier)"
How do I describe that, or should I have it that they escape the primary stomach by getting into the secondary stomach, to which then they can potentially escape later, of they don't succumb to the acid damage, of course

>>96691629
He has no argument because he's a fake fan! And I resent being lumped in with him earlier.

>>96691629
Because it can actually fire from all sides, focus it's weapons no matter where its at. It makes full use of the wedge and cathedral shape to be able to go maximum firepower.

>>96692240
>How do I describe that
It would be them climbing their way out of a meat tube that is constantly trying to squeeze them downward. It would like be climbing up a fleshy cave wall that is actively pushing against you

Okay here's an alternate topic- what do you think makes for good ship design in Star Wars?

To me I think Star Wars' scifi is very surface level, and its themes are much more important. On that note though- it has a lot of themes about the military and that should be reflected.

So I think that warship design should be somewhat standardized- to show that certain designs are superior to others, and most militaries would therefore copy these designs. Similar to the real-world military. For instance, the US adopted the MG42 because even if it's a Nazi Weapon, it was a good weapon that excelled at a military task.

So likewise we would imagine that Imperial design in the Originals represents military advancements, especially since they form an essential monopoly on military innovations (outside of some incredibly minor powers that are so minor the Empire doesn't even consider them worth conquering). Now this doesn't have to be true in every field, as we can imagine cronyism probably informed a lot of subpar designs, or that the Rebels or other factions might have been able to advance in other areas. But I would imagine that ship design should largely descend from Imperial Ship Design.

Which to me comprise of the major elements of a triangular hull, a fighter bay, and an extended command tower.

Personally for the New Republic I'd take the ISD, slim it up and smooth it off (make it look cleaner) and give it some blue stripes, maybe with a brighter white. Basically an inversion of Clone-War era color schemes.

>Pellaeon SSD
Holy FUCK i am going to CUM

>>96693440
>For instance, the US adopted the MG42 because even if it's a Nazi Weapon, it was a good weapon that excelled at a military task.
what horrendous youtube video told you this? you need to sue them for your time back

>>96693440
The NR shouldn't be using anything Imperial-looking. Factional aesthetics are important. In any case, I think the Nebula does a fine job, but I wouldn't make it THE NR ship. Should be supplemented by new style Nebulon-Bs, Mon Cal ships, and those new Defender-class Cruisers from Ahsoka.

>>96693440
What makes a good ship design is whether that design evokes the character of the faction.
>Imperials have lots of grey ships with simple shapes to give a very standardized, dehumanized vibe
>Rebels have a mix of dozens of ship types of all sorts of colors and shape to evoke a rag tag resistance force
>Republic ships are like Imperial ships with more character. They have different paint schemes and their standard ships are less geometric
>The Separatists have lots of rounded and bulky aesthetics mixed with lots of jagged edges, looks like repurposed industrial equipment that are made cohesive with a unified color scheme. This is a once rag tag force formed into a professional army
What the New Republic looks like heavily depends on the character of the New Republic. Is the New Republic:
>A loose confederation with a weak central government
Then the rebel aesthetics continue to make sense, but instead you will see a unified color scheme on the hodge podge of ship designs.
>A continuation of the Republic->Empire->New Republic lineage, a rebirth of the pre-imperial republic
Then you will see more uniformity like you described

I think the defender cruiser does a good job at presenting the Canon New Republic. It has the obvious rounded design elements of the Rebel cruisers, however it is sleek, not as bulbous as the old civilian model warships. It's underside is more jagged and it has an obvious bridge protruding out of the top. It gives the impression of a Republic formed by the rebels, but still contains imperial elements that, while pacified, are built into the New Republic's core. I would love to see more ships like this and I hope we get them with all the movies and shows being made in the New Republic era.

New Republic is cool, its a shame the sequels were as bad as they were and totally trashed the New Republic off screen.

>>96693440
>the US adopted the MG42 because even if it's a Nazi Weapon, it was a good weapon that excelled at a military task
The US never adopted the MG42. The concept of the general purpose machine gun (GPMG), which was pioneered by the Germans with the MG34 and the 42, was adopted, eventually, with the M60 and later the M240. This is about weapon usage, though. A light machine gun (typically bipod-mounted, one-to-two man crew, organic to the squad) that could double as a medium machine gun (typically tripod-mounted, served by a two-to-three man crew, organic to platoons or companies).

Mechanically, the US's post-WWII machine gun, the M60, took the belt-feed mechanism from the MG42 but was principally influenced by the gas system and bolt operation of the FG42, which was the specialized weapon built for the German Falschirmjaegers, and which is most analogous now to a battle rifle or assault rifle, despite being meant more as an LMG for the falschirmjaegers.

>>96693637
The Defender is proof that, no matter how bad the writing is in Disneywars, we still have people who understand the design aesthetics of Star Wars and can give us new and good-looking ships.

Which makes some of the choices in the ST all the more mystifying.

>>96693440
>what do you think makes for good ship design in Star War
>I think Star Wars' scifi is very surface level, and its themes are much more important.
This is correct. Ships have a wide range of complex and competing design strategies and unlike IRL, will never narrow down to becoming slight variations on a common set of optimized underlying designs, so there's infinite diversity in shapes. Many ship hulls often look like they're built around the size and shapes of internal components rather than designed with a specific external hull profile in mind like you would with a boat or airplane IRL (SDs stand out by breaking this rule). They often look a little like flying engines with fairings or armor covering them. Internal structure and parts often jut out or are left exposed at gaps in the fairings. Sometimes throw in aerodynamic stuff like wings.

In terms of roles, capabilities, and usage, you generally want to base small Star Wars ships on the designs of interwar-ww2 aircraft (extending to maybe some early Cold War stuff - especially weird holdovers like the F-82), as these inspired the movie vehicles. Capital ships follow interwar battleship/carrier designs, with neither battleship nor carrier concepts ever edging out the other. Ships tend to have a lot of empty space inside their hulls that people can move around in, and most equipment is accessible from inside. They may need in-flight repair, and they make it possible to carry this out without spacewalking. There's plenty of room in designs for modification, but they are mostly not very modular (modification isn't plug-and-play - sticking a new gun into a ship takes custom fabricated parts and lots of trial-and-error). Automation is very limited. You need people sitting at chairs, crawling into equipment compartments, and pushing buttons to make the machines start doing things or change what the machines are doing. Where automation exists, it's droids doing the things humans would have done.

>>96693109
I get that part but like, how do they get out?
I was originally thinking of just having if you escape the primary you go into the secondary, and then you can escape out of the secondary like Boba Fett

>>96693778
See >>96693637
Aesthetics are very much informing the aesthetics of the faction itself. ISDs with blue paint shouldn't really be a thing, other than maybe a rare one or two one-off. It should definitely not be standard practice for the NR.

In fact, I dare say technological progress doesn't matter. The NR needs new ships because it needs to standardize its aesthetic and production lines, hence, Defender-class. And also Starhawk and MC-85. The Imperial Remnant doesn't really have that issue, it can just keep using ISDs it has and build new ones when it recovers power. This is why on principle I don't really mind the Xystons, I just mind they have to be yet another superweapon attached to them, and in classic JJ Abrams fashion, have to be supersized from their standard size.

>>96693964
ISDs with blue paint are reserved for outer rim New Republic loyalists, same way Munificents with skulls on them are for crime syndicates

>>96693964
Very few ships in the OT on either side appear to be painted, unless the Imperial ships are painted gray/white. Paint seems limited to stripe markings on Rebel fighters and CR90s. Capital ships are mostly the same color as the Imperial ones, but a little more patched-looking with panels sometimes being darker or lighter rather than a consistent gray.

Regarding the New Republic Navy, I thought the old EU material struck a good cord on that. The New Republic is a replacement Empire in denial about its nature. They keep using mostly the same stuff the Rebel Alliance did (along with captured equipment), but more of it and focused on the best parts. This makes sense from both a political and technological perspective. The newer designs are probably good for at least a generation based on inferred setting tech lifecycles (Clone Wars equipment is still useful in the GCW, even if somewhat dated, and that's with the Empire sinking tons of credits into development the whole time). Holding on to Rebel designs emphasizes the NR's need to send the message that they aren't just a competing version of what the Empire was trying to do (even if they kind of are). Also, they're likely to not be in a good financial position to embark on big weapons development and production programs for a long time after taking over, even if they want to.

Your image is basically an MC-80 spliced with a Nebulon B, which is fine if you're going for different but not too different. It follows the "engine with fairings" design pattern I mentioned, perhaps with more emphasis on bilateral symmetry than a lot of ships (only one side is pictured, though, so maybe not). The big starbird marking is divergent from anything I remember from any capital ships in the OT movies, regardless of faction. The stripe fits what we see on fighters and CR90s, though.

>>96692341
They look more like starfighters than like capital ships. Like the original "Star Destroyers" from the initial designs, which were starfighters.

>>96692843
Nothing in this designs implies weapon stations in any place than the central line, so at best this is the broadside typical of Star Destroyers and the central ridge.
Just like the green bolts are coming from the bottom back on the Republic ship.
There is no apparent benefit from Palleaon having the pyramid shape on the superstructure.

>>96693440
Rebel/New Republic aligned Mon Cal have ship design reminiscent of more surface-level aquatic creatures. Separatist aligned Quarren have ship design that indicates deep-sea creatures, and makes them look far more aggressive than highly modified luxury liners that Mon Cal used in Rebellion.
Remember, this isn't 100% human Earth, but a galaxy of many races and their design philosophies would be affected by their natural environment.

>>96691395
Third personality for sure. Just keep adding new ones until he becomes a complete schizo, then make all his personalities engage in a battle royale and have the most interesting one take over and suppress the others.

>>96692843
You have only described a Star Destroyer, nothing about the pelly-un is unique except looking lamer than usual.

>>96693622
Not only should the NR be using surplus Imperial ships at the very least during their initial couple of decades as they get established, the Rebellion should - and did - use Imperial ships as well. This whole "faction identity is everything" mentality is what happens when you make the mistake of allowing designers to have an opinion about literally anything except the single project they've been assigned to work on at any given time.

Half the appeal of Star Wars is that it successfully exudes a *feeling* of realness, of verisimilitude, of a world beyond just what we see on screen, and real worlds are not neatly divided into radically different aesthetic paradigms on the whim of designers and design-worshipping faggots who think everything should be a fucking videogame.

Real worlds are messy, real wars are dirty, real militaries make use of whatever they can get their hands on if it makes sense to do so. I mean seriously think about it, if IRL right now Russia was given the chance to appropriate a battalion of functional Abrams tanks and the necessary infrastructure to support them, you think Vlad is going to say
>niet tovarisch, we cannot use the weapons of the Great Satan of the West, it would undermine our factional aesthetic!
?

The NR should absolutely have its own ships and aesthetic, but those things should exist in the context of a real world with resource pressures and budget shortfalls and rapidly enacted new designs not quite meeting expectations and the temptation of a huge pile of functional and effective military surplus that could be given a paintjob and a slap on the bum and sent straight to the frontlines of all the brushfire wars against warlords and aggressive breakaway states.

>>96694627
Yeah I was leaning toward that one personally too, I wonder how many I can add on until things start falling apart. He is the Captain of the group and their rebel cell and is already involved in shady business he isn't aware of.

I'm thinking of having a red herring for this obligation. It will open with the 2nd personality letting him know of a mishap with a previous mission they did that he needs to cleanup. Everyone will think "Oh so this is the obligation, just gotta tie up loose ends" but then the third personality will emerge and just start killing people

Name your favorite Darth

>>96695023
Banking makes the world go round

>>96695023
Vectivus
>realise you have force powers from spending too long on an evil asteroid
>hide the asteroid's existence through legal skulduggery
>track down a Sith and become their apprentice
>ignore the whining of the Dark Side to focus on more important things like business and studying
>discover how to create force phantoms that, once bound to a host, will kill them if the phantom is slain
>use them to fuck with people
>get uber rich
>make a holocron that has all your business tips and knowledge on the force phantom technique
>die of old age, surrounded by family and friends
He's pretty much the only successful post-Ruusan Sith.

>>96695023
Darth Me, because I love me.

>>96694734
>>niet tovarisch, we cannot use the weapons of the Great Satan of the West, it would undermine our factional aesthetic!
Yes? That's what the main point is. Aesthetics are important. The whole point of visuals was to set the factions apart, having them use the same mashup ships makes about 0 sense from a thematic perspective. This isn't the real world.

>>96692843
see>>96694633
Pellaeon is different for the sake of looking different, and basically comes off as looking shittier. I'm not gonna call it the worse design ever to bait out the shitposter, but it's definitely not an impressive design. It's no ISD, and it doesn't even work as a good ISD support ship, because it diverges from Imperial aesthetics we know so much.

>>96694734
This is incomparable because if you park an American ship in real life next to a Russian ship, no one but military nerds would be able to tell them apart. This is clearly not the case even when you have professional military forces, like the CW era Republic vs. CIS going at it. They are clear, distinct, different productions, different designs. You aren't seeing a Venator in CIS markings, and you really shouldn't be.

>>96695354
>Germans setting German autism up to 11 to use Kraut Space Magic to create G-11 to make sure Soviets wouldn't be able to use them in case of invasion
Anyone thinking that New Republic wouldn't use Mon Calamari designs over Imperial ones is deluded.

>>96694734
>I mean seriously think about it, if IRL right now Russia was given the chance to appropriate a battalion of functional Abrams tanks and the necessary infrastructure to support them, you think Vlad is going to say
You forget that we are all on the same planet, not in the galaxy of multiple species with differing design philosophies shaped by the biomes of their planets.
Especially when many of the NR members are species that were oppressed by the Empire and wouldn't like having Imperial Class patrolling over their planet, regardless of who is the crew of the ship.
Doubly so if the crew of the ship has any significant number of the species they have grudges with, which they couldn't follow on during the Empire's rule who made them unable to follow on their petty conflicts.

>>96690892 (OP)
Better Thread Question:
>What's your current Star Wars RPG character build?

>>96693622
>>96693637
I think the 'rag-tag' aesthetic doesn't work once they are in charge of the galaxy and would be presumably proffesionalizing and standardizing, which is part of my point.

In that regard- a closer design philosophy would be the Seperatists you mentioned, not in terms of geometry but in terms of themes. I'd actually want a halfway point between the Clone Wars era Republic and Seperatists in terms of 'proffesionalism' looking, where they clearly have resources but also clearly haven't completely nailed the militarism of the Empire either.
>>96693637
>New Republic is cool, its a shame the sequels were as bad as they were and totally trashed the New Republic off screen.
Agreed, I'm just holding out hope for a Clone Wars styled spinoff that fixes everything. I mean Resistance is definitely the best thing to come out of the sequels era thus far, besides a few visions shorts.
>>96693964
I think implying technological process is important, and uniformity of design is important for that.
>>96694417
They can still come up with standardized designs to account for multiple species. Though I don't mind the idea of different 'wings' of the New Republic having their own design philosophies too them, presenting their military as more of an alliance/coalition. Sort of like a Space NATO.

>>96694734
Us not seeing more repurposed Imperial Equipment is a pet peeve of mine. Though Rebels did this well where we constantly see them stealing and then reusing Imperial Gear. I actually see it as a win win- where you can use gear from both good guy and bad guy factions.

Of course I would imagine that the New Republic wouldn't want to use literal Rebellion Era ISD's moving forwards- given what we know they downsized their military and would likely have scrapped most of the imperial ships they had, the ones they kept would likely be retrofitted as well.

>Half the appeal of Star Wars is that it successfully exudes a *feeling* of realness, of verisimilitude, of a world beyond just what we see on screen, and real worlds are not neatly divided into radically different aesthetic paradigms on the whim of designers and design-worshipping faggots who think everything should be a fucking videogame.
That's what I'm getting at. Reusing Imperial design cues would imply that the design philosophies aren't only there to inform the audience of who is good and who is bad. Like lightsaber colors. When Anakin turns evil, his lightsaber doesn't swap red to inform the audience that his child murder is bad. He keeps using his perfectly good blue lightsaber until Obi-Wan uses it. Reusing design cues would imply that the Imperials made their ships that way because they were effective designs, and the New Republic copying them would then imply that they have professionalized their military.
>>96695354
So you're saying you're one of those people who can't tell which character is a bad guy unless they have the right lightsaber color.
>>96695430
The difference was the CIS were upfitting what were essentially merchantmen or coming up with their own fleet designs on the fly, without the time to properly proffessionalize their military.

I would imagine had the CIS survived their design philosophy would have evolved to look more proffessionalized.

The biggest tragedy of the sequel era is we never got a cool New Republic Trooper design out of it. Just more navy jobbers in funny hats

Which genocide of Palpatine's was the most justified?

>>96697340
Nightsisters

>>96696973
The only upfitted merchantmen they had was the Lucrehulk. Providence, Recusant, Munificent. All these are dedicated warships.
>Reusing Imperial design cues would imply that the design philosophies aren't only there to inform the audience of who is good and who is bad.
It's not about bad or good. The Star Destroyer represents the galactic nation of the Galactic Empire. It does not represent the New Republic. The Old Republic, the Empire and the New Republic are all different nations, especially as the latter two Empire and NR just coexist.

Having all your guys wield the same sort of ship is retarded and nauseating. It reeks of "realism" when the point of aesthetics was always to make it clear they're representative of a particular nation. These aren't 'just' ships, they're an actual symbol representing their government. That's what the Tarkin Doctrine was about.
>>96697082
Also this. I'd want something like mashup of the Endor and ANH Trooper designs. Something GI, but less rag-tag, more uniform. Definitely no helmets, nor full-body armor.

>>96697557
Munificent was originally a banking clan ship before it was provided to the CIS, I don't think it was originally designed to be a warship per se so much as a protector for the Banking Clan (it also had hugely powerful comm systems on it so the Banking Clan could communicate, in the war they used those comms to make their shadow HoloNet).

>>96694305
>>96694305
>Also, they're likely to not be in a good financial position to embark on big weapons development and production programs for a long time after taking over, even if they want to.
They aren't, Thrawn trilogy annotations have a few notes from Zahn about how he envisioned and had in notes the massive problems the NR was struggling with when Thrawn came out of nowhere to hit them. They needed to make a government, move commercial goods around and get trade going, they had too few ships so they were grabbing whatever Imperial ships they could capture, they were building a government that all the different member races could agree on, and they were trying to get an entire currency off the ground as well to pay for it all. And who had access to what is very up in the air, for example Luke has theoretically zero formal authority in the NR government but somehow has the reputation and access and authorisation that if he wants he can create an unlimited line of credit. To anyone he wants. He doesn't misuse it because it's Luke, but the NR in the early years EU wise was pretty much a Wild West of organised chaos held together by maybe a dozen people at the top who were, thankfully, ruling as temporary benevolent dictators except for the fucking Bothans.

What's the credit cost for a clone likely to be? Considering an anti-droid NPC around TPM or maybe a bit before, who runs a few ships in a fleet but refuses to use droids because he doesn't trust them not to go Skynet/droid rebellion.

But compared to say a droid-crewed ship with organic oversight, what's the cost of getting clones to crew it? Assuming not Jango clones that is.

>>96696962
>They can still come up with standardized designs to account for multiple species. Though I don't mind the idea of different 'wings' of the New Republic having their own design philosophies too them, presenting their military as more of an alliance/coalition. Sort of like a Space NATO.
The point isn't that the design for entire NR Navy shouldn't be standarised, the point is that they would work for something different from Empire for many reasons, including having variety of species that are known for working in ship design.

>>96698655
The prequels did establish that space-triangles are originally a Republic design aesthetic that the Empire just kept using, so it would still make sense for the Alliance to Restore the Republic to use old Republic-era styling to emphasize that they are a continuation of the original Republic. They shouldn't be using ISDs (except very early on when they didn't yet have much capability to produce their own capital ships and would have to rely on Imperial salvage), but some form of Star Destroyer a la Venator or Acclamator would make sense.

>>96697493
They get the little genocide on a nightly basis

>>96698699
it'd most likely be cameoslop but do you think obi-wan or ventress could appear in jedi 3?

>>96698688
They were designed by Kuat for the secret Clone Army, which was a plot set up by the Sith to create the Empire in the first place. Those are hardly "Republic" designs.
If anything, Republic designs are those used by Judical Forces and the Jedi, like the Rendili Star Drive's Dreadnaught-class Heavy Cruiser or the Corellian Engineering Corporation's Consular-class Light Cruiser.

>>96697340
Geonosian
Fuck em bugs

>>96698457
You can kind of figure out the cost of a person based on cybernetic costs in FFG
>4 limbs = $8,000
>78 organs = $78,000
So its $86,000 to make a person out of repli-prosthetics, but fully home growing one is likely to be much more expensive, especially before TPM. Could just double it and round up, $200,000 for a good clone, $100,000 for a shorter lived flash clone.

The guy who distrusts droids likely only has one or two clones working for him depending on how rich he is.

>>96698987
>Geonosians
>Zygerrians
How many CIS member states joined simply because they wanted to start their own Empires and thought that the CIS would somehow allow that to happen

>>96698909
Since they already had the Hidden Path in Jedi 2, I suppose Obi-Wan could be there.
Obi-Wan would be a pretty straight up cameo, maybe in combinatio with something to do in Mos Eisley, workign with the hutts kind of thing.

I could also see Merrin searching and maybe finding Ventress. Merrin kinda has a daughter now, so going on to find a (spiritual) home by looking for another Dathomiran survivor might be a thing?
The problem here is that they'd need to cast Ventress, whiich is probably a decision Filoni wants to make himself.

So maybe a voice cameo in a vision might be easier to do.

>>96698987
I'd argue that "Not wanting them to blab about using them as slave labour to build your secret giant planet-blower-upper gun" is not a good justification.

>>96696458
>>What's your current Star Wars RPG character build?
considering running EotE beginner box with my family when I go visit them. Are star wars rpg starter box adventures easy to pick up and get going?

>>96699279
>Implying justifications are necessary to Imps
Good one Anon

>>96696458
The group I run for is at 1380xp gained so they all have a lot of skills and talens
>Battle-Droid heavy gunner, melee fighter and pilot
>Twi-Lek modder, social face and melee fighter
>Clone Trooper heavy gunner and buffer
>Droid hacker and mechanic
>Balosar politico, buffer and medic
>Pantoran scoundrel (lots of stealth, deception and combat skills)

>>96699193
I don't trust filoni for a second when it comes to live action casting, just look at ahsoka and thrawn

What makes sith an inherently bad ideology to follow, aside from Light/Dark side and the depiction of them as assholes?
How would you unfuck it?

>>96700139
You can't. It is designed to be that way. Sith = fear, anger, hatred, suffering, corruption, greed, selfishness. They are ontologically evil. Star Wars is a black/white morality tale for children. Any attempt to deviate from that when it comes to Jedi/Sith is utterly retarded.

>>96700139
Because being adept with the force gives you a lot of power, and when the powerful act passionately and impulsively it will, every now and then, fuck shit up something horrible. This then easily enough leads to a descending spiral of guilt, shame, anger, lashing out, more damage done... The dark side isn't red force powers, it's the same force as always being very much with you, but you lack the wisdom and maturity to make a good thing of it and instead fuck everythign up to a superpowered degree.
There's no balance between light and dark in the force. The "light side" IS balance.

>>96687884
Is it really that bad? Every review I've seen praises With Friends Like These.

>>96700218
>Is it really that bad?
Depends on how pants-wettingly desperate you are to lead a mando army it seems.

>>96700194
I know it's designed that way etc. However, reading Plagueis' novel it kind of, sort of takes away their need for evilness once they have secured and ensured their place on the top of the food-chain.
The Sith code (I know the guy made it from Nazi stuff in KOTOR) doesn't really state anything about evilness we see them do.
What would stop a Banite Sith Lord from outright rejecting the path laid out before them and teaching their apprentice in different ways?
>>96700210
Banite Sith seemed to be pretty much in control, perhaps too much in attempting to subjugate the force itself for their whims

>>96700971
Sounds like your problem is consuming too much fanfiction that contains retarded conflicted interpretations of the source material.

>>96700913
If there were dozens instead of hundreds of mandos on the planet, the numbers they use would make much more sense. But they don't, so it doesn't.

Of course, none of that touches on the fact that the given reason they don't just evacuate is because this is an illicit attack so total destruction of the Imperial fleet will actually keep the secret base secret...and then at the end Imperials forces automatically flee into hyperspace rendering who the fucking adventure pointless. And even THEN youre still not accounting for the fuckass awful mass combat system they have.

I swear these people have brainworms or some shit.

>>96700971
>Banite Sith seemed to be pretty much in control, perhaps too much in attempting to subjugate the force itself for their whims
Having discipline in when to use the Dark Side correctly makes them far more dangerous, because they are even better at bending the Force to their will than a typical fallen Dark Jedi ever could, as the latter are hedonists with no real skill and knowledge on how to capitalise on their abilities, while the Sith knows how to maximise what they are doing while using their anger and hatred to make themselves stronger in the Dark Side.
>I know the guy made it from Nazi stuff in KOTOR
What fucking "Nazi stuff"?
Also, Plagueis was sentimental and his master was starting to doubt he would ever try taking over, he was great at planning and finances, and also at research in the Force and midichlorians, but he lacked what it takes to be the true Sith Lord, which is why he got himself killed by Palpatine in such a simple way, and he nearly rejected the Banite path because of his sentimentalism.
Also, that same book talks about one of the prior Sith Lords of Banite line who researched a bit too much into Jedi and Light Side and went mad, and destroyed some of the Sith knowledge in the process.

>>96701235
The thing is that I don't even read the usual suspects you're alluding to, I'm going by the old Republic Sith lore and Bane's destruction of the Old Sith system. Bane's system was to get rid of the Jedi and assume the control of the galaxy, after which the survivor/victor (Palpatine) would be able to set the foundations of the new Sith Order according to their own principles.

Where in the Sith code does it tell you that you're supposed to electrocute puppies and tk ewoks into wood-chippers?

Peace is a lie. There is only Passion.
Through Passion, I gain Strength.
Through Strength, I gain Power.
Through Power, I gain Victory.
Through Victory my chains are Broken.
The Force shall free me.

Anything here that can be interpreted as evil can be "Through Power, I gain Victory.", due to nature of power and how one may achieve it. Nothing else here really says that you have to be evil, beyond generational trauma and abuse of thousands of years ago. The Sith, whom the Republic genocided are long extinct, their culture and grudges in truth died with them. Banites are only working against the Jedi/Republic, due to being inducted into the order and that they can't be Sith openly and seek power or risk certain death/imprisonment.

All I am saying that it's not unreasonable to wonder, based on their code alone- if sith can be salvaged and could a sufficiently reasonable Banite Sith steer the order in a different direction. Before anyone mentions Gravid, yes he did what I am talking about and in the worst way possible as he destroyed too much invaluable knowledge base of the Sith.

Alternatively- George said that the Sith are the cancer of the Living Force and we'll leave it at that, the same George who sold SW to Disney. You eternal faggot

>>96701466
>Gaider had asked Lucasfilm what the Sith's philosophy was or if they had a code like the Jedi did. When he was asked to write them himself, Gaider reversed the existing Jedi Code, with the accompanying dialogue about the Sith on Korriban being partly inspired by Mein Kampf, the 1925 Nazi manifesto.

There's an old reference link at wookiepedia, where's an archive of Gaider's blog, where he talks about this.

>>96701501
I fail to see how is it inspired by Mein Kampf whatsoever.

>>96701482
Dark Side feeds off emotion, and in turn amplifies the emotions that feeds the Dark Side.
Also, Gravid was already mentioned, even if not by name. And his actions shows that the Sith and Jedi philosophies are incompatible, just like how Dark Side and Light Side can't work together.
Incorporation of certain Jedi methods is what made Kaan's Brotherhood of the Sith so weak, and why Bane was stronger than any of them in the Dark Side, which is why they had to be purged.

>>96701672
I'm not that big of fan to check Mein Kampf and cross reference the sith code, this is just what was said on one of the writer's blogs.

>>96700971
How many times does this have to be repeated. To be Sith you necessarily must use the Dark Side, and the Dark Side is Evil Heroin; the absolute best you can hope for is to become a semi-functional addict, still capable of retaining your intellect and ability to achieve your general goals in between bouts of murdering, scheming, torturing, and hating people to death with lightning. It's just as possible that you'll become so drunk with power you reveal yourself as a monster to the galaxy and be hunted down. Sith who believe they are good guys are universally delusional whackjobs self-justifying their descent into whatever particular brand of madness is their own fetish. With who accept they're monsters but temper their evil with purpose and some cunning can handle their shit for longer, but they're still constantly doing evil shit and walking a knife-edge of temptation to just start cackling madly and unleashing their army of cyberzombie-raptors made with ancient evil sorcery or whatever.

Sith are not meant to be morally complex, they are evil wizards sitting towers brooding over orbs, necromancers haunting graveyards to find fuel for their heinous experiments, and murderous assassins who thrill in the cruelty of their kills.

>>96701833
I am well aware of their meta role and how it has played out in the franchise anon. You could've just avoided all this paragraph and typed out the following:

The Sith are meant to be irredeemable villains, stop trying to justify it.

And you would've gotten your point across just as well with more brevity.

>Tatooine in the Lucas made films: functionally irrelevant desert planet that only exists for Luke and Anakin's story
>every writer, game designer and showrunner for the past 50 years: let's go there for some contrived reason
why are they like this? Naboo, Hoth, even Coruscant is as explored as freaking Tatooine.

>>96702009
Nostalgia, anon

>>96702009
Because the movies kept going back to it. Even the TCW movie went straight back to Tatooine

>>96702153
What kind of no life nerd makes these things?

>>96702009
That may have been true only in 1977. But after that Lucas clearly changed his mind, and even the Special Edition additions were meant to turn Tatooine into a big living important planet. It was also a home to the most important Hutt no less. So the only time it was some empty backwater shithole was in the unaltered first film.

>>96697557
That's kind of like saying the Nazis copyrighted the Tank.
>>96698457
For reference each US soldier costs a Million Dollars to field. Though a big chunk of that are the welfare programs soldiers are entitled to, which while not that much, are substantively larger than most countries, such as Russia.
>>96698655
I was under the assumption that the Empire's designs were there because they were effective. I would assume that they had the best navy in the galaxy, and it would therefore be worth copying.
>>96698688
Also this.

I think a lot of people would enjoy taking cues from the Venators. Minus the weird double-command towers.
>>96699092
The Geonosians strike me as the 'farmer with a shotgun' type, they just want people to get off their lawn.

The Muun's and the Nemodians are the 'you get you're fucking taxes from my COLD DEAD HANDS' types.

I think the Techno Union liked the idea of being able to mad science without being bound to any laws.
>>96700078
I liked Rosario Dawson and David Tennent.

>>96700139
I think the issue is that it is fueled entirely by selfishness and ego-ism which makes it inherently self-destructive.

Jedi-ism is essentially a rejection of the self- it's focused on becoming one with the universe. And to do that you have to deny your attachments to the earthly world, very buddhist. Though it also inclines them to inaction since they try not to concern themselves with earthly manners.

The Sith however can't truely build anything, because they don't care about anything permanent- obsessed with the impernance of their lives. The idea is that one can only truely be free if one has enough power that their autonomy isn't infringed upon by things like 'laws' or 'reality'. In this example, Palpatine is the free-est man in the Galaxy. But even he has to tiptoe around certain elements of the galactic politics as he accrues power, and arguably his downfall was him thinking the Death Star got rid of this, and he pretty much abandoned any sense of strategy. Even then, according to Sith ideology, the fact that the Empire fell upon his death is irrelevant. Palpatine got him and his. He didn't build the Empire for anyone but himself, and if he's no longer around, then the Empire outlives its purpose.

This is why the Rule of Two was instituted- because the Sith by definition couldn't work together, because to do so would imply someone has power over them- restricts their actions, says there are things they can't do. But if all that matters is accruing complete power and freedom, then it's not your purview to care about the health of the 'ideology' or the 'movement' or the 'sith state'. Fuck them guys. What matters is YOU. Which leads to constant backstabbing, civil-wars, and rampant factionalism.
(cont.)

>>96702710
And to top it all off, Palpatine, arguably the most successful Sith Lord in history, pretty much abused and loopholed the hell out of the ideology to get where he was. He set up all his apprentices for failure to insure he outlived them, and rather than accrue enough physical might to defeat the Jedi in open combat he instead relied on trickery, deception, and most of all politics, in order to defeat the Jedi. And even then it relied on the faults and arrogance of the Jedi for his plan to succeed, and even THEN it almost failed. All that would have taken for the scheme to fail would have been had Anakin Skywalkers speeder-car breaking down on his way to Mace Windu's coup attempt.

Sith ideology is a lot like libertarianism. It makes a lot of sense to midwits who have no deeper understanding of what the phrase 'second-order effects' means.

>>96691070
> Broadside armaments back to back with each other instead of centerline turrets
You had one job...

>>96701833
I think there's room for nuance with the Dark Side. The Dathomir witches seem to stick to themselves. Like still evil, but not constantly fucking everyone.

The problem with 'Sith-ism' though is that it pretty much mandates that at some point you try taking over the Galaxy in the name of eternal freedom and power.

In this way I think it's a reflection between the differences of fascism and authoritarianism. Plenty of authoritarians out there who are bad, but otherwise keep stable societies that aren't trying to upset the global order. However, any form of 'fascism-lite' is a failure because of its need to have total control and to keep searching for some sort of enemy to justify itself. Normal authoritarians go 'yeah I'm a dictator, but at least I keep the lights on, and I don't shit at the buffet at all the UN meetings', while fascists try to flip the script and go 'actually good is bad and bad is good'.
>>96702009
Wasn't Tattoine always a major trade hub? A hellscape that nobody wants to be banished to, but still an important hub that people are constantly going in an out of. Like Minneapolis.

>>96695403
It just reeks of 90's sensibilities, that's what makes it feel so cheap

>>96702682
I just don't trust him

theres a good casting for ventress, and a lot of bad ones

>>96703030
Who'd you cast then?

>>96703172
elizabeth debicki
she'd only need the facepaint for the skin and tattoos, you don't need to dye her hair or use eye contacts (looking at you, godawful hera blue eyes contact lenses) as she has blonde hair and blue eyes like ventress

same build, similar facial features, she's near enough the best cast you can get

>>96691073
this, I occasionally check the thread but can't be fucked making OPs anymore as its just circlejerking about muh disney muh eu etc

>>96702781
Except fascism has very much nothing to do with the Dark Side, and "authoritarianism" is a meme. The US is a fucking "totalitarian" state, in that it imposes it's ideology of "democracy" on itself and on others, without question, no matter how much of a failure it is.

>>96701482
The Sith code never directly states you have to be evil and betray everyone, but most Sith end up doing so anyway because the Sith philosophy is built around placing yourself above everything else. All the Sith care about is gaining power in order to gain freedom (defined as being able to do anything you want without anything being able to stop you). Everything else: friends, family, allegiances, any sense of morality, can be sacrificed in the quest for more power. The Sith sees no reason not to stab their friends in the back if it benefits them even the slightest, because for the Sith the only person that has any value is yourself and everything else is judged by how they can benefit your.
Some Sith may be more well-adjusted than others, but that's just because they figure that for now it benefits them more to tolerate other people, or because their quest for power revolves around locking themselves in a tower to study ancient Sith manuscripts instead of going around murdering and enslaving people.

>>96705165
>but that's just because they figure that for now it benefits them more to tolerate other people,
I don't think the 'for now' part is required, a sith could believe that other people benefit them in a long term sense too. Especially for the more well adjusted ones you see in things like SWTOR.

>>96705183
That's just the case of "for now" being the foreseeable future. If they truly follow the Sith philosophy they would have no qualms about turning on people if the situation changed so that doing so would benefit them more.

>>96701881
Brevity is for people with the wit to understand it. I was going to leave it there, but I didn't want you to think I considered you to qualify in that regard, so I'm spelling out that I also consider you to be retarded.

>>96705305
Takes one to know one, I guess

>>96705165
>>96705291
The problem is the nature of the Dark Side. You can be slightly less puppy-kicking evil. You can even be sane, meticulous in your evil, but it'll still drive you to basically do crazy shit, even if you have noble intentions. Example is you want to defend a handful of planets. Okay, but you perceive your neighbors to be an inherent threat. A normal, perhaps even Imperialesque move would be to fortify yourself. Perhaps built a deterrent. A Sith move would be to preemptively obliterate those enemy neighbors because it's the only way to be sure.

Palpatine spending most of his life working to overthrow the Republic, only to speedrun his new Empire to the ground by oppressing his subject in order to fund the creation of increasingly elaborate superweapons that only existed to oppress his subjects even harder is pretty much the quintessential Sith experience.
He was able to act the part of an upstanding citizen for decades, all the while weaving elaborate plans to ensure his rise to power. But he only did any of that because he felt it was the best way to gain power. Once actually in power and able to do anything he wants, he throws away an subtlety as no longer necessary and becomes the cackling megalomaniacal madman he always wanted to be.

>>96705627
>He was able to act the part of an upstanding citizen for decades, all the while weaving elaborate plans to ensure his rise to power. But he only did any of that because he felt it was the best way to gain power.
I'd say he was likely ticking down the minutes before he could drop the act and just be himself.

>>96705766
Do you think Palpatine ever paid prostitutes to "pretend he was a Sith Lord" or something? At the very least I assume he wore his Sith robes and practiced his evil cackle when alone in his apartment.

>>96705872
It's more of a supervillain secret identity situation. The Trade Federation guys know him as Darth Sideous, and are genuinely afraid of him, rather than bemused by his choice to claim a title from a long extinct culture.

>>96706079
Yeah, but for some reason the mention of Palpy wanting to express his Sithness let to me having a funny mental image of a Coruscanti prostitute talking to her friend about how senator Palpatine insisted on wearing black robes in the bedroom and had her pretend he was a Sith Lord and she her hot Twi'leik apprentice.

>>96702729
I'd argue Sith Ideology is more like Communism or Fascism. You can see on paper how much it makes sense. Then you realize that it involves giving 1 person or a small group of people uncheckable power with the only thing keeping them from following the logic being a pinkie promise, but absolutely nothing to stop them from just taking anything and everything they want and fucking the whole system to pieces to benefit themselves and only themselves.

Yes, "The Master weilds the power and the Apprentice craves it. The only way for the apprentice to become the master is to surpass him. Meaning that Sith leaders can only get stronger" Except then you have the apprentice who just decapitates his master in his sleep, or poisons his food or plants a bomb on his shuttle or anything like that before he has even gained a fraction of his masters power and the entire system falls to pieces and the whole line falls into a death spiral of weaker and weaker and weaker Sith.

It doesn't help that this is a system that is custom designed to attract the most power hungry who will take every shortcut to get to the "Master weilds the power" part and you realize that Darth Bane was INCREDIBLY naive.

>>96706513
This is why the Sith Triumverate system makes more sense, even though it was also incredibly flawed. But whereas the Rule of Two involves banking on the honour of people who are actively encouraged to be dishonourable, at least the Triumverate was based on the idea of exploiting the natural paranoia that such a system creates.

3 Beings weilding equal power. 1 cannot rise up against the 2. 2 could possibly work together to bump off 3, but that involves placing a lot of trust in someone who is naturally being very untrustworthy. I mean, if 1 walks up to 2 and says "We need to bump off 3 and together, we can do it" 2 can't be sure that 1 isn't going to stab him in the back afterwards, or if this isn't just a ploy from 1 and 3 to bump him off. 1 knows this as well, meaning that he can't be sure 2 isn't going to run to 3 and go "Hey, 1 wants me to work with him to bump you off, we should team up to get rid of 1."

Now, this whole system falls to pieces the moment 2 actually do trust each others hatred of the last one, but at least it's based on natural barriers and exploiting the actual kind of people who would find themselves here in the first place.

>>96705541
I think the issue there is more learning restraint. I think someone like Dooku and Palpatine were capable of this, even Vader but that's because he was clinically depressed.

Which is to say, anger and hatred might fuel their power, but they have the werewithal to not let that dictate every facet of their decision making. The problem is Sith smoothbrains thinking that to reject Jedi ideology they must reject any form of emotional control.
>>96705627
My interpretation was always that Palpatine found victory to be boring. He clearly relishes being able to outsmart and outwit people, particularly the Jedi, and has the time of his life when he gets to the reveal and can just go full evil wizard on them.

But while he still had to navigate politics to a degree in the early stages of the Empire, I don't think his heart was in it to the same extent. It's quite clear he's not bringing his a-game to the Republic that he did with the CIS. Force Unleashed tried saying the Rebel Alliance was him once again trying to round up the factions with the most capital to resist him to knock them out, but even in that scenario it backfires and the Alliance to my knowledge, is nowhere near puppeteered the way the CIS were. Now- obviously the CIS were HIS idea in the first place, but still you can clearly see different approaches being taken.
>>96706079
How caught up were the Nemoidians on the whole Sith thing?

I figured it was mostly they knew he was like the equivelant of a Neo-Nazi, but figured that they could ride him to GLORIOUS PROFIT and didn't care about the details.
>>96706297
I saw someone on this board say his office apparantly had a bunch of statues of Sith philosophers in it or something.

>>96706513
I don't think fascism makes any sense even on paper. It's pretty much just the glorification of dictatorship with the pretense of 'well it's good so long as we get rid of (insert minority here)'.

Communism I think has its redeeming qualities (like universal college and healthcare) but the blaring warning sign comes from the whole 'dicatorship of the proletariat'. And it's like kinda central to the ideology that rights need to be taken away for it to work.

I use libertarianism as an example, because while it's fucking retarded (yeah, lets privatize the fireman and policeman and the army, THAT'LL turn out well), it's not presenting itself as retarded or anti-democratic. It actually couches itself as being MORE democratic, and focusing on good values like freedom. Hence if someone only engages with it at a surface level for how it presents itself, one can see it being an attractive ideology. Whereas the bad parts of fascism and communism are self-evident from the elevator pitch. So it requires you to stop to think for five minutes about the second-order consequences about how a world run by such an ideology would realistically function.

I do also like the idea that Palpatine murdering his own apprentices is a 'one simple trick' that gets around the Rule of Two is just something that Darth Bane genuinely never thought of.

>>96708417
Bane literally dies trying to possess his apprentice the master killing the student was something he was fully cognizant of it being within his framework

>>96699279
Sounds like a really good justification to me.

>>96708456
Okay, but that's less funny.

>>96708380
>I saw someone on this board say his office apparantly had a bunch of statues of Sith philosophers in it or something.
Supposedly a lot of his office decor is Sith relics. He had some ancient urns from Korriban, statues of some philosophers who were considered respectable historical figures by the Republic but whose teachings had elements inspired by the Dark Side, and big mural depicting a battle between Jedi and Sith taken from one of the Sith temples on Yavin IV.
Most of that completely flew under the Jedis' radar. They certainly must have seen the statues and the mural but were unaware of the Dark Side connection with the philosophers and probably assumed the mural was commemorating the victory of the Jedi over the Sith instead of it being a Sith relic.

>>96708829
Considering the picture with Trump and the Saudi glowing orb, this is entirely realistic.

>>96708829
He just has a keen interest in history, nothing to be concerned about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-u28C3dF3Kc

Xim the Despot

>>96698457
Courtesy of d20 Star Wars:

>Q: Along similar lines, I have a player interested in making a clone. I don't have a problem with it yet, except for the cost. How much does it cost to have, say, the Kaminoans make a customized clone, either a duplicate or a modified being? Is there a base price to consider, or should I just make up a really big number?
>A: This is a case where I think that official rules are needed -- they just haven't been written yet. Until they are, though, consider that clones should be more expensive than slaves (since, otherwise, people would just buy clones to be their slaves). Carrying that logic a bit further, slaves should be more expensive than droids (except in Hutt Space, where slaves are apparently easier to get).
>Now, given that logic, perhaps the easiest way to sort out the comparative costs of droids, slaves, and clones is to assume that a slave costs twice as much as a droid with the same general skills and levels, and a clone costs twice as much as that. So, the easiest way to judge the cost of a clone is to price it at four times the cost of a comparable droid.
>https://web.archive.org/web/20090602014756/http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=starwars/article/sw20040812counseling

So a clone is approx. 4x an equivalent droid, if you want a very advanced clone (more levels, skills, abilities etc.) then you'd be paying considerably more.

>>96694734
>the Rebellion should - and did - use Imperial ships as well
With massive design changes. Rebel Nebulon-B is not Imperial Nebulon-B.
>Half the appeal of Star Wars is that it successfully exudes a *feeling* of realness
No, Star Wars' main appeal is that it's a fantasy, a space opera. Design is extremely important in fantasies, having each faction have their own artstyle is way more interesting than "everyone uses Star Destroyers cuz stronk"
>those things should exist in the context of a real world with resource pressures and budget shortfalls and rapidly enacted new designs not quite meeting expectations
Saxtonite detected. Yawn, imagine watching Star Wars and giving a shit about fucking logistics and stuff like that instead of the actual appealing factors

>>96705627
Palpatine got bored as fuck as the Emperor. He had the time of his life scheming against the Jedi and Republic and now he's just alone and bored with little else to do but mindless hedonism. No wonder he was in favor of the Death Star and Tarkin being a retard
>>96705872
Sheev probably sees sex as stupid, he isn't that kind of venial hedonist and he can't feel affection for anyone so it's a waste of money and especially time

>>96712063
This is why I earlier asked what peoples philosophy on this stuff was.

To me the important parts are the themes, rather than the design. Like I don't care that all the space-combat is WW2 in space. But I can roll with that because I takes its themes on militarism seriously, because that's meant to be a serious element.

So to me, while the tactics can be nonsense, how people treat the military should be serious. Which means the characters should be willing to use weapons regardless of 'uniform colors'.

I contrast two scenes. In Revenge of the Sith, Anakin continues using his perfectly good blue lightsaber to fight and commit warcrimes. Because even though he's swapped sides, he's not going to stop to change uniform colors for the sake of the smoothbrains in the audience. This is in line with the themes that the Jedi and Sith aren't as wholly seperate as they like- Anakin always had a darkside in him, it was just something he had channeled at the enemies of the Jedi, and now that the tables had turned, Anakin was able to use those same tools (his lightsaber and clone troopers) to commit evil. Because the context of how these tools are used are what matters.

And contrast that with Rise of Skywalker where when Kylo Ren turns good, he throws away his perfectly good red lightsaber, necessitating that Rey have a spare lightsaber on her person that she can then teleport to him for a fight-scene, cause smoothbrains in the audience wouldn't have been able to understand that he turned good unless he had the right uniform on.

You tell me which is more faithful to the franchise. The one that disregards the uniforms, or the one that sticks to it religiously.

>>96712063
>With massive design changes. Rebel Nebulon-B is not Imperial Nebulon-B.
And this is why designfags should have their mouths sewn shut when they're chained to their desk and given a project. They didn't change how the nebby looked because they wanted to give it a snazzy new vibe you fucking poofter, they did it out of necessicity. Just as, in extremis - you know, like trying to form a new state under massive pressure from without in the form of warlords and aggresssive minor factions and from within economically and politicially - they might find it necessary to make use of leftover Imperial surplus to fill gaps in their forces even though they might not *want* to be associated with the aesthetics of the Empire.
>No, Star Wars' main appeal is that it's a fantasy, a space opera. Design is extremely important in fantasies, having each faction have their own artstyle is way more interesting than
Yes, it is. "This lived future actually feels like a real place" is literally a core, foundational aspect of the enduring appeal of the franchise. It was mentioned in reviews of the original fucking movie when it was actually released and continued to be so as part of the explanation for its endurance as a franchise - films made for kids in a world interesting enough for adults because of all the implied room for *more*.
>"everyone uses Star Destroyers cuz stronk". Saxtonite detected. Yawn.

Ohhhh, sorry, nevermind, I thought I was talking to someone who merely had a different point of view, not a disingenuous retard. Have fun eating those crayons dipshit.

>>96712173
Well said.

>>96712347
Yeah, I'd say the main difference between George Lucas' and JJ Abrams approach to the franchise, is George is constantly trying to sell us that this is a setting that existed before the camera turned on, and will keep going after the camera turns off. It's why he starts the story with episode IV.

JJ Abrams treats the franchise like it exists exclusively for the camera, and the only important events that happen in the universe happen either on camera, or happen to create some sort of bullshit mystery for the camera.

>>96708417
Western democracy involves a surveillance state. You are not "free" in any shape or form. It has been proven that North Korea is fundamentally more free than the UK, right now. This is not even an argument.

>>96712173
The point of using a blue lightsaber was to push the brother vs brother aspect, and to point out that until he puts on the armor, he's still, in some shape or form, Anakin Skywalker. Mustafar represents the death of Anakin, and his rebirth into Vader. Sorry you couldn't figure this shit out.
>>96712347
We're clearly talking once they get a working industrial base. The new industrial base clearly supports the Nebulon-B being built in the same way as the 'Rebel model' rather than the original, Imperial model. They're clearly introducing new ships, like the Nebula-class, Defender-class and so on, instead of using ISDs.

Please, grow a fucking brain. You just want to see ISDs vs ISDs because WOOAAAHHH SO COOL GRITTYREAL

Which even the EU did not do. They stuck with the NR using Mon Calamari designs, because why wouldn't they?

>>96702682
>I was under the assumption that the Empire's designs were there because they were effective. I would assume that they had the best navy in the galaxy, and it would therefore be worth copying.
They were effective, but Rebels had good ships of their own, from what I remember, the Mon Cal ships had some really good shields that could even outcompete Imperial ones.
>I think a lot of people would enjoy taking cues from the Venators. Minus the weird double-command towers.
People who say this forget that the triangles were Kuati design, and the ones used in the Clone Wars were all during the Chancellorship of Palpatine and thus forget actual Republic designs in use before Palpatine.
>David Tennant
He was in Star Wars? Thrawn is played by Lars Mikkelsen, who also voices him in animated form, from what I remember.

>>96706576
The only way to handle multiple number of Sith is not a parallel system where different Sith Lords can be equals that plot against each other, but a linear system, where a Sith can only be challenged by another Sith directly behind them in the Chain, in ritualised duels, where optionally other Sith under them can join to lend their power and potentially remove their own rivals, with cutoff being "if a Sith does not participate, everyone under them in the Chain can't join up".
With Victory, their chains are broken, one by one, until they stand above all the Sith, with only Dark Side itself beyond, while everyone below has to obey them.
Enforced by executions of those who would dare to attack those above them outside the ritualistic challenges.

>>96712347
>"This lived future actually feels like a real place"
A Long, Long Time Ago, In A Galaxy Far, Far Away
It's not future at all.

>>96713847
Problem with this is the Sith Code inherently encourages you to break rules. That's kinda the point.

>>96713797
Tennant plays/voices the Jedi robot in Ahsoka.

>>96713448
>It has been proven that North Korea is fundamentally more free than the UK, right now.
Where and how? This smells like extreme bullshit.

>>96714396
>extreme bullshit.
It is, the 'people' who claim things like this are probably bots and paids shills.

>>96714295
There is nothing special about breaking the system, but about manipulating others to do what you want them to do.
And yes, I am of opinion that StarCraft 2 has managed to create a mostly-functional Sith society.

>>96714370
Oh, that guy, Professor Huyang, located on a Paladin-class Corvette "Crucible"

>>96713847
Establishing some rules for what is considered a legitimate way to off your superior to ensure that the people who rise to the top truly are the strongest would likely be necessary for a Sith empire to not collapse from chronic backstabbing syndrome, but trying to do it would hit two big problems.
One is that while some might consider murdering your master while he's sleeping or putting a bomb in his hovercar to be dishonorable, other Sith would argue that it is a sign of cleverness and should be seen as equally legitimate to challenging your master to a duel and beating him in a 1v1 fight. The other, bigger issue is that Sith are all about breaking rules to maximize personal gains. Getting them to agree to such a system would be impossible.

Temuera Morrison (Jango Fett) narrating the history of the Israel-Palestine conflict.

I love ChatGPT, especially giving it’s takes and analysis on battle of muunilinst, dantooine and amaltanna?

>>96715337
You can't think and analyze for yourself? Pathetic dude.

>>96714573
nta but it is a shithole and everyone hates keir-jong un/keir stalin

>>96715348
I can but I love to hear/read different answers/theory.

>>96715014
If you manage to kill your master in your sleep, you are at best helping his rival rise up in rank, as you are far lower on the totem pole and not going to hop in in your master's place, so what's the gain?
Also, if you are seen by anyone while attacking anyone higher on the chain than yourself, you are ground for execution. It doesn't have to be an assassination attempt, even.
And not even all Sith are worthy of being on the Chain, those on it would be the ones deserving the title of "Darth", there will always be Sith mooks, Assassins, and others who are too weak to ever become one of Darths, but whose skills are useful enough to have tasks of their own, while bound to obey orders of Darths.

>>96713462
So what you're saying was that JJ Abrams handling of the same material was just as good.
>>96713797
There's no way they built the ENTIRE Republic fleet during Palpatine's reign, there had to be a large number of holdovers due to the nature of the time involved for shipbreaking.
>>96713847
What stops a Sith Lord from 'cutting in line'? Shouldn't Sith ideology in fact encourage that?
>>96714396
What do you mean 'like'? You mean 'is'.

Commemorated a stupid thing I improv'd into a combat encounter

>>96715556
From what I understand the Acclimator was a ship that already existed, it was just designed to be very quickly converted into a warship in anticipation of the war by people the Sith had hidden control over.

The Venator was designed and produced after the war had already started however.

>>96713847
The Sith in the TOR days worked just fine for a long while, it wasn't until Vitiate fucked off to do his Eternal Empire stuff that things started to get unmanageable.

>>96697340
Jedi, fuck those force wielding feds

>>96705872
Palpatine had at least two people who pretended to be him, one of them being his bald bitch (not Vader) and the other being his top guy- Sate Pestage

>>96706513
I had this really long tangent about this, but Bane essentially wanted his Sith Order to kill the Jedi completely and overhaul the Order as he had done previously and if Bane's lineage failed it just meant that the Sith weren't really cut out for the Galaxy at large and if they succeeded, the successor would have carte blanche to do whatever they wanted with the Sith Order.

The point of Banite Sith was to make his sith either unstoppable or extinct and to eradicate the Jedi Order, the final lord of Bane would have to be the best they could get. Not just in raw force, pun intended, but in multiple areas. Palpatine's plan rested on the giant machine that was the military industrial complex and the corrupt senate, not just zapping/mindraping the opposition into compliance.

Star Wars :)

What are your favorite criminals in SW?

>>96715556
>There's no way they built the ENTIRE Republic fleet during Palpatine's reign, there had to be a large number of holdovers due to the nature of the time involved for shipbreaking.
Even if the production started even before Palpatine got elected during the Naboo crisis and not after it, none of the designs made by Rothana Heavy Engineering have seen the light of day before the Clone Wars, and that includes Acclamator-class for ships (Venator is openly designed and produced on Kuat after the war already started) and AT-TE and SPHA for land equipment.
>What stops a Sith Lord from 'cutting in line'? Shouldn't Sith ideology in fact encourage that?
So, you managed to kill someone in secret, someone who is much higher than you are. If you admit to doing that, you get executed, so you can't reveal that you managed to do that, therefore, all your efforts were for nothing. Ritualistic combat are the chains, and you can't break them by going around the rules, thus preventing cowardly methods of assassination, but rewarding cunning methods of goading those far above you into engaging in the ritual combat that could drag many others in support of participating sides all to settle grudges with their own opponents on the side.

>>96716169
It's a Rothana Heavy Engineering design, therefore designed in secret by Kuati engineers on planet Rothana, in Wild Space, all for the Clone Army, with design and production starting before Clone Template was even chosen.

>>96716198
Relatively fine, but the fact that Council fought each other instead of working together means they would undermine the Empire to eliminate their own rivals.

More Dark Rey.

>>96705627
>speedrun his new Empire to the ground by oppressing his subject in order to fund the creation of increasingly elaborate superweapons
>Once actually in power and able to do anything he wants,
The main issue was that he never reached the level of absolute autocracy he wanted. Even as Emperor he had to consider the wishes of important Core Worlds and regions. This is largely because many retained a degree of independent military capacity (CorSec, CSA, Sorosub's private military) and because rich, important worlds had planetary shield systems. The Core Worlds could have crippled and ended the Enpire if a significant number of them were willing to turn on their shields and accept the economic hit of temporary isolation. This was the reason the Senate lasted so long - to make then feel like part of the program instead of conquered subjects. The superweapons were intended to remove the need for this power sharing arrangement, hence the Senate disappearing the moment DS 1 came on line.

Old EU stuff also suggested Palpatine was motivated by knowledge and fear of external threats and the superweapons were at least partially intended to deal with that. I'm not sure if that's still a "cannon" motive, but it made sense.

Palpatine's Empire would have lasted a thousand years if Luke didn't make that one in a million shot. The Death Star would deter any and all serious acts of rebellion

>>96717224
It was actually REY who killed Palpatine. Luke is just some old ass boomer.

>>96717224
>Implying Tarkin wouldn't go on a full blown power trip with the DS1 and cause multiple imperial schisms

What if we retcon ep 7-9 and instead make Asshoka and Luke racebreed few kids?
Asshoke would be the perfect wife for Luke now that Mara Jade is too non-woke for Disney.

>>96717322
>Imperials break away
>Instagib their capital planet
>All the member sector embarrassingly rejoin out of fear
Alderann was the only example the galaxy needed
>>96717269
If her boobs were bigger the sequels would be watchable

disney lore is so fucking weird

>>96717378
Which star wars character would give the best SPH?

>>96717442
That would be Dark Talon! Shes literally built for ball busting little shota jedis!

>>96713847
See, what you're describing is the Klingon system. The difference is that the Klingon System is entirely ruled by honour which keeps everyone in line, whereas Sith only care about power and where they can squeeze it from.

Rebel ship designs were solidified by Star Wars Rebellion (the vidya) for me, with the Dauntless and Assult Frigate being iconic alongside Mon Cals and carriers.

>>96717322
Tarkin was holding Vader's leash, but Vader was Tarkin's leash. If Tarkin tries to oust Sheev, Vader either ends him and gives the Death Star back or let's Tarkin do it and then kills him as well and takes the Empire in the classic Sith move.

>>96717650
The one I describe is that of Tal'darim from StarCraft 2.
Alarak, who in a short story was merely the 4th Ascendant, recently rose to the rank by manipulating some massive Rak'shir (ritual combat) that made him rise like massively in ranks all the way to the 4th. In it, the 1st Ascendant had invited him to gain his aid against the Highlord, as during the Rak'shir it's basically the psionic duel in specific location where the loser gets thrown to a bottomless chasm to die, and those who join in, can declare whom they aid psionically, and when they do, they have to do it until the very end of the fight.
Alarak ensured that the Ascendant right below him will not participate (locking everyone before her from joining), and waited to join until the 2nd and 3rd Ascendants Declared for each opponent and fight each other to near death, just so he could enter the fray when the 3rd Ascendant, weaker psionically but stronger physically, was already injured enough. He then aidedd psionically the 1st Ascendant until near the end, when he declared for the Highlord, leading to slow walk to death of the 1st Ascendant. All so he could have a good gauge of the Highlord's abilities for when HE decides to become the new Highlord by the Rak'shir combat, as he just ensured he will be the 1st Ascendant.
It helps that Protoss are psionic beings, so passing on that someone just attacked someone of higher rank is easy to them, so assassination attempts are far too risky to be worth it, especially when it doesn't let you take over someone who is many ranks higher, it would at best remove one link in the chain, while you are still far below.
Each higher ranked Ascendant can lead armies of their own, so it's not like they are merely holding a rank for the sake of how close they are to become overall leaders and ordering those below them in the chain, as not everyone is worthy or strong enough to be a part of it.

>>96717378
What if we just got rid of the sequels/Ahsoka and her inconsequential existence altogether? Sounds like a better idea to me.

Who's a bigger fanfic OC? Quinlan "too cool to fall to the darkside" Voss, or Ahsoka "Survived both Order 66 and a duel with Vader" Tano?

>>96718266
Ahsoka, because you forgot "died and was revived with and harbors the soul of basically the Avatar of the Light Side/Force goddess."

>>96717465
>Shes literally built for
reverse mindbreak, hand-holding, maybe some light spanking and impregnation

>>96718351
Also
>never gets a scratch on her and outlives everyone

>>96716967
We see Venators in Attack of the Clones after what's most a month after the start of the Clone Wars. I always took that to be the Republics standing Navy.

Also who says it has to be assassination. Just start wacking at the dude with your lightsaber till he stays down. Either way the hierarchy that was set up is torn down.

>>96717203
I think he actually did way better working within a power system than ruling by decree. Disbanding the Senate the same day he blows up a planet primarily known for humanitarian aid on SUSPICION of Rebel Activity ( by Tarkin by the way who wasn't even elected) gave everyone the incentive to join the rebels.

Imagine how much trouble NOT building the Death Star would have saved. Both Vader and Thrawn thought it was stupid.

>>96717465
>>96718783
Not gonna lie, I think Darth Talon is the one thing from Legends that most fans remember the most. For obvious reasons.
If not then one of the most remembered things from legends.

>>96719485
The funniest part? Most of the people did not even read Legacy. People just know her from cover art and porn. No one actually knows her "character" (she doesn't really have any) or story. One of such people was George Lucas, who just saw a figure of her and that was enough to make her Darth Maul's apprentice in his sequels. Although the design in itself is nothing special - it's literally just a half-naked twi'lek that looks like female Darth Maul. But that's good compared to other ugly cringe ass fuckers from Legacy.

>>96719525
Not gonna lie. I beat off to Darth Talon CGI porn art.
It had to be CGI though. I had the autism in that department.
Truthfully I don't really know if I prefer EU or canon when it comes to extended universe stuff beyond the movies.

I think the biggest reason I might prefer EU over canon by a smidgen is because EU technically had an "ending" as far as I know.
Which makes me wonder how the canon universe is going to be handled especially when it inevitably "ends" and a new Star Wars universe is born and then it makes me wonder how the universes are going to be renamed.

>>96719553
What do you mean "ending"? EU was not over. It got cancelled. There was a bunch of novels that were going to come out, Sword of the Jedi or whatever, that shitty Legacy run also was hastily wrapped up earlier than it should have. Both canon and EU are shit for their own reasons. Canon has sequels, Acolyte and other terrible tv-shows, EU had Dark Empire, Vong, Karen Traviss, Legacy, Legacy of the Force, Kiliks, and many other truly terrible shit. EU slop is easier to ignore, I guess, since it's just a bunch of books no one will ever read or know about, whereas Disney shat all over Star Wars' reputation with those high profile movies and shows. It's better to treat Return of the Jedi as ending. Everything after that is terrible shit that undermines the original trilogy in one way or another.

>>96719595
>What do you mean "ending"?
I meant the end of legacy. I consider that the ending.
But I get your point, anon.
I am not gonna pretend that EU was perfect. It sure did have some stinkers.

>>96698987
Geonosians are people too. Moreso than Alderaan, being a """utopia""" is ironically proof positive that they must have been doing some horrible shit. In contrast the Geonosians' lore gave their culture plenty of warts, making them ultimately more human than the DS-1's victims.

>>96719595
The Vong were fine, and NJO had more good novels than bad. Admittedly the bad were very bad, but that wasnt anything new for the EU, just look at Crystal Star.

>>96690892 (OP)
Does anyone know if there's a Star Wars flavor'd homebrew for the FFG Dark Heresy RPG?
I wanna run a Star Wars game but I don't really like the official RPGs and the D&D modules people've tried to make are dogshit.

>>96719431
>Disbanding the Senate the same day he blows up a planet primarily known for humanitarian aid on SUSPICION of Rebel Activity ( by Tarkin by the way who wasn't even elected) gave everyone the incentive to join the rebels.
It would have done the opposite had it not exploded. The idea they were trying to convey was, "you can no longer resist our biggest weapon, and yes, we absolutely will use it on you no matter how important you think you are." There would obviously still be limits (he can't blow up his whole industrial base), but the first to stand up would obviously get nuked immediately, which changes the political equation. Playing factions against each other probably was safer and easier for him, but it meant those factions still had power. He bet big to win everything and lost (twice) because having all the power for himself was the goal all along.

>Imagine how much trouble NOT building the Death Star would have saved. Both Vader and Thrawn thought it was stupid.
Vader didn't care about Palpatine's goals regarding government reorganization that much. He was just along for the ride (presumably until he felt strong enough to take over). He probably though Palpatine's whole "take over the galaxy" plan was pointless vanity to begin with. Thrawn would be happy with an endless series of battles to seize the galaxy with every single confrontation being a unique puzzle and never truly completing the conquest. Palpatine needed a universal political and military solution to achieve his goal of absolute centralized political power in one (extended) lifetime. Even if they cooperated and respected each other, they weren't all after the same thing.

>>96702220
Idk, but I think it's pretty neat

>>96702220
The kind that posts on 4chan.

>>96715878
I love it.

so we've all just ignored nu-movies and nu-lore right?

>>96720168
I have, just like most. Some people still keep trying to make some Disneyshit happen, for whatever reason.

>>96720168
90% of it. I like the EE22 blaster and a couple of ships.

>>96720185
I gave it a chance when force awakens came out. But I was naive.

>>96720168
Generally, I still want to quickly visit the place to get their one cool idea but just avoid the actual stupidity.

>>96720193
I kept reading reviews about how it was just a ripoff of ANH and I knew it was already over. Never saw it outside of a few scenes everyone kept posting on /tv/.

>>96720168
>nu-movies
yeah
>nu-lore
pick and choose as always

>>96720214
Nu-lore always leads back to the nu-movies.
Except maybe something like the Dark Trooper redesign, I liked that and probably only that.

>>96720168
>nu-movies
Only the sequels.
>nu-lore
Depends on how well it aligns with George Lucas's lore and his ideas. You have to pick and choose.

>>96708417
>I don't think fascism makes any sense even on paper. It's pretty much just the glorification of dictatorship with the pretense of 'well it's good so long as we get rid of (insert minority here)'.
This isn't /pol/, but that's literally not what fascism is. Fascism is an economic system which takes socialism but restores some of private enterprise so long as it's beneficial to the state. Mussolini came up with it because the Socialists he was with kept losing and the Communists are retarded faggot anarchists. Fascism's honestly pretty close to Syndicalism in it's pure form, but it's only ever been implemented by 3 dictatorships officially, and 4 if you count current-day China.
All Within The State, Nothing Outside Of The State, Nothing Against The State.
Businesses can rise and fall, but they do so beholden to the State before anyone else. People can earn raises and promotions from their businesses bosses, but anyone entering into a position of power is required to be loyal to the state, and also competent (ideally).

Is the system still retarded? Yes, but it does make sense when you look at what the system actually IS rather than the simplified propagandized version.

>>96720343
>socialism but restores some of private enterprise so long as it's beneficial to the state.
If you replace socialism with communism doesn't that mean China?

>>96720898
I didn't read the whole post before typing that. . .

>>96720898
Certainly, but despite wishful thinking from westoids, I suspect China will be around in its present form up to the year 4500, perhaps further. Sorry, but western "democracy" is a meme, just like it is in Star Wars.

>>96715556
>There's no way they built the ENTIRE Republic fleet during Palpatine's reign
You underestimate the sheer scale of an industrial base that is already capable of supplying a galactic-scale economy.

>>96713797
>from what I remember, the Mon Cal ships had some really good shields that could even outcompete Imperial ones
Yes and no. Mon Cal shields had backup generators so they could cycle them in and out and regenerate lost power more quickly, that is about it.

>>96717203
>Old EU stuff also suggested Palpatine was motivated by knowledge and fear of external threats and the superweapons were at least partially intended to deal with that
Not really. Palpatine was apparently aware that the Vong existed, and used that to convince Thrawn to join him, but fighting them was never his primary motivation. If it was, he wouldn't have wiped out the Jedi, as they were one of the most effective weapons in fighting the Vong. Most likely he just saw them as a problem he would have to deal with eventually, hopefully after having dealt with his other opponents. Him creating the Empire to prepare the galaxy against the Vong invasion is just Imperial apologism.

They even address it in one of the NHO novel, where an ex-Imperial says how this would never have happened if the Empire was still in charge, and Han replies to him that what the Empire would have done is spend trillions of credits to built some superweapon that they'd name the World Annihilator or Sun Devastator or The Nostril of Palpatine, and then in the first battle against the Vong it gets blown up because of some crippling design flaw because that happens literally every time the Empire builds a superweapon.

>>96719407
>We see Venators in Attack of the Clones after what's most a month after the start of the Clone Wars. I always took that to be the Republics standing Navy.
Then you were wrong, Republic had no standing Navy, it had Judical corps, the whole point of them not having an army or navy was why there was a need of passing decree of creating a Grand Army in the Senate and why they used clones in the first place. Any non-clone officers were either from planetary defence forces of some planets or from Judical Force.
>Also who says it has to be assassination. Just start wacking at the dude with your lightsaber till he stays down. Either way the hierarchy that was set up is torn down.
Congratulations, you just helped someone far above you rise in rank without actually rising yourself anywhere close, and the moment you reveal you did it, you get executed for breaking the rules, you failed to break your chains, and have not achieved true victory.

>>96721059
Especially when they had years to prepare for the Grand Army in secret before the start of the Clone Wars, and when it was on, Kuat could do the same on their own massive shipyards, and that's just Kuat.

>>96716913
>criminals
Hutts are woefully misrepresented in Star Wars. They're stereotyped as criminals, but the reality is vastly different, nigh Hutt in proportion we can say. While their commercial activities are demonstrably at odds with Galactic Republic standards of legitimacy, none of their cultural imperatives or traits are in defiance of their own civilization's laws or mores. Within Hutt parameters their activities are not criminal but rather wholly legal and the pursuit of them is frequently laudable. Dismissing this as merely characteristic of criminality's rejection of social strictures is poor reasoning because, unlike examples of organized crime in Earth's past and present, the Hutts' ways predate the introduction of Republican laws criminalizing their deeds.

I posit that it is far more reasonable to see the Hutts as a parallel civilization of unadulterated capitalism existing within a racial and tribal hierarchy whose social order prioritizes dominance over other species. These species fulfill the function of servitude for a system which is built upon a precept not of the individual as a citizen but rather upon tribes and clans as the quantum unit of society. Insofar as the individual of subject species does exist for Hutts, it is not as a person entered into a social contract whose purpose is mutual or reciprocal. No, the individual in Hutt sociology is a unit of labor, bricks in a pyramid which exists to facilitate ascension of the Hutt species. We might not approve their civilization but we ought to appreciate it as a civilization, not dismiss it as a lawless underworld. Actually, in Hutt Space, "crime" is the lawful overworld.

>>96720010
The thing that has bugged me since I finished reading NJO is the constant back & forth on what philosophy of the Force Luke and his order accept. It feels like there were factions among the writers behind the scenes, some pushing edgelordy greyjedifaggotry with the thinly veiled "yin/yang" misinterpretation and some the classic and correct view(there is the Force, which is light and goodness, and the Dark Side, which is an irredeemably evil corruption of the Force), and they kept re-interpreting and overruling each other without one ever being able to definitively say "it's THIS one" despite several clear attempts to do so by both sides. It makes Luke and the Order feel indecisive and confused.

>>96720185
I think some people just have trouble with the idea that you can take the few things you like(mostly some ship designs) and just write your own new fluff for them. If they use any element from Disney they think they have to include the whole rancid, stinking mess for some bizarre reason.

>>96721033
I think almost every system of government works for at least some people. The problem is we're all confined to this shitty rockball together and trapped in states based on where we were born. I think a true utopia wouldn't be something like Star Trek(well, it would be to me, but Chud Chuddington III, Esq, Hater of Jooz probably wouldn't be a big fan) but rather the Demarchy of Alastair Reynolds' Revelation Space books, specifically Yellowstone's Glitter Band of orbital habitats where every single one can operate according to its own rules and laws and cultures and the only real rule is you keep your shit in your own orbital and anyone who wants to can leave if they like.

>>96719595
> that shitty Legacy run also was hastily wrapped up earlier than it should have
It was a very good run other than the most rushed ending in history of endings, which was supposed to be some sort of series finale for EU as a whole

>>96720168
It's a mixed bag. Most of Disney canon is bad and/or forgettable, but so was EU

fractalbitch ruins another good design yet again, here's his take on the raider
jesus fucking christ, he even covered this one in turrets

>>96722054
I wish he could be fired.

>>96721860
>Demarchy of Alastair Reynolds' Revelation Space books, specifically Yellowstone's Glitter Band of orbital habitats where every single one can operate according to its own rules and laws and cultures and the only real rule is you keep your shit in your own orbital and anyone who wants to can leave if they like.
Though even Reynolds' own books explore the issues with that system. For most part it works fine for the average citizen, but what if you think it would be a neat idea to try living in a dictatorship, but after you figure that was a bad idea the dictator won't let you leave and since you technically signed away any rights you might have when you agreed to live in the dictatorship orbital you don't have any legal means to complain about it?

>>96721818
>It feels like there were factions among the writers behind the scenes, some pushing edgelordy greyjedifaggotry with the thinly veiled "yin/yang" misinterpretation and some the classic and correct view
That's because that is exactly what happened. Some writers were pushing the "it's OK to force lightning someone a little bit as long as you don't go full Palpatine" view while others opposed that, and it got reflected in the writing by them repeatedly retconning each other.

>>96722097
name names

>>96721845
Is there any good lore from the Disney era? I like some of the shows but I can't think of anything they contributed to the setting overall that's worth cherry-picking for a game, unless you count the concept of the High Republic era (which really could've been extrapolated from what we already knew in the EU anyway).

>>96721682
>But you see, from the slimy alien criminal's perspective, everything is totally above board.
>Even if they are at odds with every other legal and most moral framework in civilized space
Kindly neck yourself, xenophile.

Made a Strategic Map for my campaign. This is the state of the Empire 5 months post-Endor. Each square is a fleet roughly the size of the Empire's at Endor. 4 lines indicates a full strength fleet, 3 lines is 3/4 of a fleet and so on.

>>96717465
>>96718783
Has it ever been explained how human women compete with more beautiful non-human-humanoid women?

For real though bros... Why can't Disney ship CGI-AI young Luke to Ashoka? They can make sex and make force babies.

>>96723239
Last I checked one night stands are kosher for Jedi in Disney canon

straight couple kissing is kosher in Disney canon

>>96720080
>He probably though Palpatine's whole "take over the galaxy" plan was pointless vanity to begin with
He wanted to rule the galaxy with Luke and part of the reason he fell was he believed in a strong state. The idea of Vader being some washed up nihilist isn't consistent with his movie character who is quite driven in his goals. He is a sith, he obeys Palpatine because he is stronger than him, but he wants the chance to usurp him just the same.

>>96720168
I took parts of nu-lore that I liked and incorporated it into my game
>Operation Cinder, it makes sense that Palpatine would have a final "Fuck you" scorched earth policy
>First Order / Imperials fleeing into the Unknown Regions, figured all the guys involved with Operation Cinder wouldn't stick around and would bail
>I like the canon New Republic ships
>I like the concept of the Remnant being a secret coalition of warlords rather than a unified state the NR just allowed to exist. Frankly I prefer the canon interpretation of warlords as these semi-mobile african style warlords raiding throughout the outer rim.
That's about it

>>96723116
I find the question is less "are the Hutts morally right?" (they're not) and more "do the Hutts count as a criminal organization?". The Hutts are the legitimate government of Hutt space. Rather than operating outside the law like criminals would, they're the ones that make the laws. They do engage in behavior other states consider illegal, but it's not like we consider North Korea a criminal organization because a significant amount of their funds come from hacking peoples' bank accounts. The Hutts should really be considered a rogue state (a state that doesn't follow established international law), rather than a crime syndicate.

>>96723797
>He wanted to rule the galaxy with Luke and part of the reason he fell was he believed in a strong state. The idea of Vader being some washed up nihilist isn't consistent with his movie character who is quite driven in his goals.
I'm not at all convinced he was on board with Palpatine's plans for the galaxy. Vader's idea of a strong state would probably be more built around a warrior king who fights at the front than superweapons and politics. He seemed much more focused on personal power than political power. I also think there was an element of nihilism to his behavior. He mostly just went along with what the more motivated bad guys were doing at any given time, even when he thought it was dumb. The idea of teaming up with Luke to overthrow Palpatine came across as kind of tenuous rather than his main plan, and he seemed pretty willing to give up on it by the time he caught Luke in RotJ. He didn't make much effort to protect Luke from either being killed or just becoming another Sith pawn until he finally turned back at the end.

>>96724328
Vader clearly had a low opinion on the DS, given his whole "don't be so proud of this technological terror you've created, the power the destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the Force" speech.

>>96723239
Ahsoka is twice Luke's age tho

>>96723797
Vader was pretty much dejected and broken by the time of ANH and Luke's reappearance stoke his dying embers of ambition and signals to Palpatine that Vader is finally going to try to graduate from his apprenticeship

>>96724328
>he offered to rule the galaxy with luke as father and son
>but ehhhh he didnt mean it because uhhhhh
>>96724379
He seemed like he was having fun in ANH, throwing people around and what not

>>96724657
Maybe, but we all know Vader loves aura farming

>>96720343
You are buying into the framing which is a mistake.

The economic component of fascism is cronyism pure and simple, with a state having a finger in the private businesses pie and vice-versa. You see this where big corporations were very integrated into the state aparatus, companies like Fiat, Mitsubishi, Volkswagon.

It's not about socialism, everything 'socialist' about Fascism was just window dressing to appeal to left-leaning midwits. Not did it 'restore' private enterprise. It basically picked a handful of winners that the state would back in exchange for political loyalty- again cronyism.

Ironically you're looking much more at the propaganda version than the reality. You're also weirdly sidestepping the political angle, which relies on abolishing laws based on enlightenment principles like 'the state shouldn't be allowed to euthenize the mentally ill because they think they're polluting the gene pool'.
>>96721033
Got a real independent thinker here, huh.
>>96721059
It's not about scale, it's about speed. Those giant ass ships are gonna need more than a month to build.

>>96723084
I would say that the new Thrawn-adjacent books from Zahn were pretty good, especially on the Chiss lore, the Unknown Regions, requiring Force Sensitive navigators, including the Loli Space Navigators.
The only thing I won't forgive was what the comic version did with the Chiss ships with tracing some garbage from somewhere else. Curses be upon Marvel.

>>96721860
Nah, my prediction is that when we start colonizing mars we're gonna see a lot of communes pop up and then immedietely devolve into either cannibalism or turn in to full on cults.

You actually saw this in the settler period of both the US and Australia. People trying to set up communes because they rejected modern western society, and thinking they've found the one-simple-trick that will solve it all. Most of these were actually left-leaning, ranging from anarchistst to communists, but I also lump the Mormons in with these, and other fringe religious groups. The Mormons were by far the most successful, but notably they ended up moderating away from polygamy and other tenents of the faith to achieve acceptance within mainstream american culture. Other smaller scale communes would also either moderate, or fizzle out in a generation. This was most notable with communist ones- while the system worked when everyone going into it agreed to the rules, but the kids being born into the system didn't accept the framing of their society, and would all leave to rejoin mainstream society.

I'm super predicting that once we start colonizing places, some idiot billionaire like Elon Musk is gonna set up some religious or libertarian commune because they hate everything about western civilization, and being so cut-off from mainstream society is gonna have everything play out like a bioshock game.
>>96724328
Vader doesn't have the patience for politics. He has a 'just do it' mindset, which is what made him ripe for Sith radicalization, but probably doesn't make him an adept administrator.
>>96724118
When the British force the Chinese to smoke all of the Opium they're growing in Afghanistan, does the fact that its the government doing it mean that they're not a narco state?

>>96723133
Are you sure that Dathomir is on the right spot?

>>96724745
Oh you're right it should be further up the Hydian Way, good catch. Updating the map for the next time the group is on their ship. Their astromech has a bad motivator so that'll be the excuse for placing the planet incorrectly

>>96724745
Where does this map even come from? It's generally regarded as a central piece of Star wars lore but I don't know where people get it from.

>>96724657
>>he offered to rule the galaxy with luke as father and son
>>but ehhhh he didnt mean it because uhhhhh
He did mean it, but was very much willing to give up on it. He took Luke to the Emperor instead of trying to train him separately, and seemed willing to let Palpatine actually kill him until the last moment. When he did finally decide to help Luke it was a rejection of Sith stuff in general rather than because he wanted to take over. He seemed to be going through the motions of being a Sith because he liked fighting and bullying people and had a nasty temper, but he wasn't all that committed to doing the "pupil overcomes the master and replaces him" thing despite being really strong. It suggests a lack of ambition for anything beyond individual strength. He just wanted to be the best at hitting people with lightsabers and flying spaceships and choking people with the Force. He didn't have any big plans for becoming space wizard king and reorganizing society.

>>96724973
He brought Luke to Palpatine because Palpatine had the intention of turning Luke over to the dark side. Luke wouldn't be fit to usurp the Emperor and rule the galaxy until he gave up on the Jedi way. However Luke beat the shit out of Vader and by the time Vader recovered his senses he realized what had to be done and killed Palpatine.

>>96724728
It's so bad. I think they traced an upside down ship from Macross/Robotech for those.

>>96724946
I assume that it's, like this one, from The Essential Atlas.

>>96725018
I remember there was a set of Marvel tracing ships, including a Lego one, for the personal ship of a Mutant named Sunspot.
Or Tau ships (and apparently Eldar as well) in a Venom comic.
And basically any Star Wars ship was ripped off from fanart.

>>96724997
>He brought Luke to Palpatine because Palpatine had the intention of turning Luke over to the dark side. Luke wouldn't be fit to usurp the Emperor and rule the galaxy until he gave up on the Jedi way.
It would make more sense for Vader to do that himself. Taking him to the Emperor was basically asking to either have him turned against Vader to compete for position or killed outright. The whole dialog at the Endor shuttle port suggests he'd given up on the idea of the two of them fighting Palpatine, as does the way he behaved in the throne room. He might even have been trying to get Luke to kill him and take his place by that point.

>>96725280
Vader tried to turn Luke and failed, so he was sending Luke to the next best guy to do it

>>96725358
Which would result in either Palpatine failing as well or Luke becoming Palpatine's pupil instead of Vader's. That's my point. Taking that path implies he'd given up on his half-hearted usurpation plan already.

>>96724997
Did Vader even know about the rule of 2?

>>96725280
>>96725358
>>96725427
One decent thing Nu-Disney have done was showing how Vader attempted to rebel, before being cockslapped by Sheev so hard he kind of gave up. It also had a nice underlying theme of what being a Sith meant to Vader and Sheev.

>>96725427
Vader's plan was pretty simple
>Turn luke to dark side
>Have luke help usurp palpatine
Simple, he knew that even if luke went evil he would prefer his father over evil old man, even if old man has good arguments
>>96725484
What else would he and his boss talk about?

>>96725599
>Simple, he knew that even if luke went evil he would prefer his father over evil old man, even if old man has good arguments
Not what he was doing, or Vader would have turned on Palpatine sometime earlier in the throneroom sequence. That plan doesn't work if Palpatine's selling point for the Dark Side is "join me because you hate your dad more for setting you up and getting all your friends and relatives killed". Vader even protected Palpatine from Luke's attacks. He wasn't trying to usurp anymore. He was probably hoping to die there and let Luke try it instead.

>>96725733
You do have me thinking now
>ANH: Vader is totally loyal to Palpatine, busting heads and taking names.
>ESB: Vader's son is alive and Palpatine just suffered a major defeat. He is vulnerable and Vader wants to exploit that with his boy.
>RTJ: Palpatine's seat of power has been rebuilt, Vader has no hope in taking over anymore. Luke convinces him otherwise by forcing Vader's first selfless act in decades.

>>96725484
Ultimately, Vader, as a Sith, was a failure. After Mustafar he was never in position to challenge Palpatine on his own

>>96726147
He died killing his master, which is what all sith aspire to do

>>96726169
He wasn't a Sith anymore, which makes it even worse

>>96725098
>Be Sector Army 1
>Do nothing for 2 years and 11 months
>comfy.jpg
>Suddenly the entire Separatist fleet jumps into Coruscant orbit
>fml

>>96726169
He died killing a Sith, which is what all Jedi aspire to do

>>96723116
>Peecha no wooti ba neeki anon yor so digi na veet, por no bantha poodoo, ho ho ho

>>96725959
What you said actually makes a lot of sense and may have been the thinking behind some of the OT script at the time, though it wasn't quite what I had in mind. It's particularly a good fit for that deleted scene from RotJ where Vader is denied an audience with Palpatine. It's clear he's acting much more thoroughly subordinated than when he was monologuing at the end of ESB, and also that Palpatine is treating him dismissively. Mostly I was thinking that if he really still wanted to do the thing he proposed in ESB, pic related was the moment to do it. Attack Palpatine together while Luke was angry and desperate, then propose ending the space battle with a truce. After that, they can "fix" the Empire by taking over while teaching Luke how great being a Dark Jedi is ("look how you can kill your enemies and save your friends"). Instead Vader deflected Luke's anger onto himself, which suggests he wanted Luke to take his place.

>>96722054
Not a massive improvement, but still pretty cool.

>>96726303
Mind, all of those became initial Grand Moff territories, before the number of those got lowered.
Not sure if Grand Admirals were supposed to be the same in number, but at least one of them led the Azure Hammer fleet, when Palpatine was preparing his return from Byss there was Operation Shadow Hand, and the Black Sword Fleet was involved in Yevethan Crisis.
A bit unrelated, but when Zsinj was both a Moff of Quelli Sector, held the title of Warlord of the Empire for his achievements, and was the Admiral of the Crimson Command, which was a fleet of Victory-class Star Destroyers, which had red hull due to slightly different alloy used to build them.

>>96724973
I figured he was more into Sith stuff because he had to double down on his bad decisions than confront that the dark side thing cost him all friends and family. Which is why Luke offered redemption, because that represented a second chance. However he mostly still sided with doubling down than confronting all the regret, only siding with luke at the last second.

>>96726582
Say Vader did decide to merc Palps in that moment. How do you think that plays out?

Luke doesn't go dark side, but vader cant go full light. I think Vader respects Luke enough to spare Endor at least in the short run. He'd prefer they Duke it out honorably than try to consolidate power immediately.

In exchange Vader likely has to retreat. He keeps the DSII, and most of the imperial fleet while ceding Endor. There might be a power struggle in the Empire but he'd win it handily.

At that point I think it depends if he really thinks the empires worth preserving. Hes not like ideologically opposed to the Rebels. I could see a scenario where he agrees to peace and exiles himself. I dont think he really wanted to rule the galaxy so much as bond with his son, and hes the opposite of an administrator.

>>96727581
>Say Vader did decide to merc Palps in that moment. How do you think that plays out?
They kill Palpatine (maybe just wrist flick him straight in the face with a lightsaber right then, maybe a big fight if Palpatine anticipates it). Vader congratulates Luke on getting angry enough to lash out and win and says he has more to teach. He transmits a message to both fleets telling them to back down and negotiate on the Emperor's authority (doesn't explain Palpatine is dead, Force chokes and Imperial commanders who argue). He offers to evacuate and self destruct the Death Star as a show of sincerity to get the Alliance to go along with it (he thinks the DS is dumb anyway). After that he starts consolidating power in the remains of the Empire, fighting any Imperial warlords who disagree, and training Luke to be like him. He can cooperate with the Alliance to an extent because, like you said, he isn't ideological. In the end, he probably isn't going to be particularly nice, but won't go around blowing up planets just for the sake of intimidation, which undercuts the Rebels' justification for fighting him since the Empire is reforming on its own.

This only works if he'd really been preparing for it, though. Realistically, he probably wasn't in a position to do any of this because he's an apolitical thug who didn't spend time cultivating a faction for himself in the Imperial hierarchy. There's a good chance most of the Empire's military would immediately turn on him after they realized he'd killed the Emperor. Tarkin was probably the last guy in the Empire who might have considered siding with him (and Tarkin was a big superweapon enthusiast, so he probably wouldn't have either).

>>96727861
I dont think he blows up the death star, since that's a waste of resources. He might agree to disarm it in a treaty and just have it be a mobile command center. Or at least scrap it.

I dont see Luke training under Vader though. But they'd at least Skype.

I dont see Vader getting too much blowback though. He was the #2, and their top general, and Palpatine left no successor and scrapped the Senate. He might even bring a weaker form of the Senate back to win legitimacy.

I think the question is more if he say 'freezes the borders' with the Rebels, or agree for a full handover. I think the Rebels had enough losses that peacing out for their own autonomy could have been accepted at least in the short term.

I could see Vader earnestly engaging in peace talks with Luke and Leia. I think it comes down to if he would accept a form of punishment for his actions, like imprisonment or exile (I see him preferring the latter).

>>96728137
Grievous was a bad character in teh prequels, he needed several seasons of cartoons to make sense.

>>96728657
why is she orange

>>96727975
>like imprisonment or exile (I see him preferring the latter)
There is no way Vader gets anything less than being executed as a war criminal. He carried out a lot of atrocities from the front lines.

IG lancer droids also saw combat on Battle of Amaltanna but were destroyed anyway. What kind of damage did IG lancer do to the clone army.

>>96728969
Ja dat klopt.

>>96727975
>I dont think he blows up the death star, since that's a waste of resources.
I don't think the Rebel fleet would stand down at Endor with the Death Star still intact. It's the main reason they were there. I don't recall Vader caring about wasting resources much, and he might consider the thing itself almost as big a waste (and it wasn't finished anyway).
>I dont see Luke training under Vader
If Vader turned the whole Endor trap situation around by switching sides right then it would make things really different between them. Also, Luke was fresh out of other Force coaches.
>I dont see Vader getting too much blowback though.
I think a lot of Imperial officers would be furious after they realized it was a coup. He'd have to hide that for a while and pretend the Empreror was still giving orders or he'd have an immediate mass mutiny (then again, maybe some of them thought the DS thing was nuts and would cooperate).
>I could see Vader earnestly engaging in peace talks with Luke and Leia. I think it comes down to if he would accept a form of punishment for his actions, like imprisonment or exile.
I'd expect him to only negotiate from a position of strength with the Rebellion. "I saved your fleet when you walked into a trap and stopped the crazy guy who was blowing up planets for stupid reasons. Now I'm top dog in the "Galactic Imperial Republic" or whatever we're calling it and I'm making things better, even if it's not quite the way you wanted. Are you going to be stupid and keep attacking, or help me fight the Palpatine loyalists?"

>>96728657
Grievous was well established by the time of Episode 3 hit if you were an actual Star Wars fan back in the day.

>>96726303
>be Oversector Emerald Banner
>spend 3 grueling years of attrition warfare against the Southern Front
>goes through Moffs faster then Palpatine
>Tripple digit battles for Thyferra, Isonzo style
>before the Outer Rim sieges start
>3 years of Givin hyperspace-no-jitsu bullshit
>some relief after the Sothern Front gets bisected into two small theatres
>things start to look up when Admiral Octavian Grant gets put in command of the Oversectors Naval Forces
>suddenly the entire Yag'Dhul theatre navy dissappears
>claim it was all part of the plan all along and waltz in while the Seppie Ground Forces are in total disarray from the navy disappearing
>CoruscantScreamingInBackground.holo
>Reverse Oversectors get to feel some of the pain for the first time
>eventually help reinforce Coruscant with the cream of your naval forces
>Oversector Command Star Dreadnought looks very dashing blasting bits of seppie junk
>life is good

SWUnlimited Chads, give me your recommendation for the best way of jumping into this game.
Should I grab a Clone Wars 2-player set, the Hoth intro set or simply wait for Secrets of Power and grab a Padme deck and a Sheev deck?

>>96701730
Kek. I don't think he's read it at all. Hitler didn't like that sort of thing

>>96729454
>Our aged Emperor just died of a heart attack. It appears that cackling in glee during a space battle may be bad for your health at such an advanced age.

>>96725733
>"Vader wasn't a galaxy-conquering psychopath. He was a sad man whose one love in life had died, and whose one anchor to the world of the living was, yes, a galaxy-conquering madman."
>―Lumiya
Perhaps this describes Vader the most, before learning he has a son (and later that he also has a daughter), the only person left in his life was Palpatine, and he clearly thought he can't defeat him, with his gimp suit being inefficient, all by design. Which is why he was telling Luke that he can't disobey the Emperor, not because he was loyal to him, but because he thought it is hopeless.

>>96729699
No, he really wasn't.

>>96730855
>The Emperor died of old age and not lightsaber to the face. I was there, and his last words were that he wanted Darth Vader to be in charge of everything from now on. I am very sad and not being threatened. Also, the Death Star has failed a critical safety audit and crew will be evacuated until an engineering team can assess the issue.
>-Commander Jerjerrod

>>96731624
Please don't act retarded for attention.

>>96732158
Tell him that, not me. He's the one pretending like genndywars or any shit from the CWMMP meant anything

>>96732230
>>96732158

>>96732247
Grievous was a shit character with shit development before TCW. You're just going to have to deal with that.
And it's cute that you have no argument. Typical genndywars babby.

>>96729699
Loved those stories.

>>96732275
Name one of them.

>>96730729
>expecting a leftoid to read uncle's books

>>96732275
Based Grievousbro. For me, it's the comics.

>>96732301
Same, I really liked the issues in the Genndywars comics that focused on him.

>>96728969
Yeah, but is it worth fighting a war to execute him if hes willing to hand everything else over? I think he might have some remorse but not enough to pet someone excute him. Fight to the death on a volcano planet maybe.
>>96729454
>I don't think the Rebel fleet would stand down at Endor with the Death Star still intact. It's the main reason they were there. I don't recall Vader caring about wasting resources much, and he might consider the thing itself almost as big a waste (and it wasn't finished anyway)
They were taking a beating. A ceasefire could be worth it. I'd assume vader would prefer retreat because he doesn't particularly value Endor, so the Rebels would at least win the system.
>If Vader turned the whole Endor trap situation around by switching sides right then it would make things really different between them. Also, Luke was fresh out of other Force coaches.
The film wants us to believe hes finished all his training.
>I think a lot of Imperial officers would be furious after they realized it was a coup. He'd have to hide that for a while and pretend the Empreror was still giving orders or he'd have an immediate mass mutiny (then again, maybe some of them thought the DS thing was nuts and would cooperate).
I dont think most care so long as he doesn't immediately purge them, and he can merc the hardliners. In fact I bet you most would prefer his military thinking, even if Vader wants some kind of truce.
>I'd expect him to only negotiate from a position of strength with the Rebellion. "I saved your fleet when you walked into a trap and stopped the crazy guy who was blowing up planets for stupid reasons. Now I'm top dog in the "Galactic Imperial Republic" or whatever we're calling it and I'm making things better, even if it's not quite the way you wanted. Are you going to be stupid and keep attacking, or help me fight the Palpatine loyalists?"
You're right, I see a cold war scenario being more likely.

>>96731193
I always thought of it more as Vader bring depressed and not wanting to confront his own evil deeds, which he'd have to ro get redemption. Hes quick to discuss overthrowing the Emperor to get Luke on his side but then never brings up the idea again.
>>96731713
This is pretty much exactly how thatd go down.

And most imperials are used to swallowing that kind of bullshit.

>>96729699
I remember going to see RotS and thinking "who the hell is this guy?"

>>96729699
I genuinely pity anyone that didn't experience things like Genndywars or the Republic comics before ROTS. It was so kino and it makes me sad that kids today don't get to experience anything like that.

>>96732253
Lucas is the biggest retard on the face of the planet. Nothing you say will change that fact lol.

Opinion on slugthrowers, aka ballistic firearms in star wars

I get they meant to have all these disadvantages like unable to piece through armor (even though there been times in movies and series of stormtroopers being beaten to death by teddy bear savages and their armor smashed by boba fett big stick) having to carry ammo around while blasters can fire 100 to 500 times before reloading and just primitive in general

But I find them neat, jedi thinking you got a blaster, they take out their lightsaber, they wave it around as they go towards you before blasting them away with lead and bullets are cooler than lasers in sci-fi settings in general

>>96733583
> before blasting them away with lead and bullets
Neo_stopping_bullets.jpg

>>96733371
30+ y.o. millennial loser crying about franchise for 12 year olds on 4chan deserves more pity than some kids. Save your pity for yourself.

>>96733371
It's sad. We used to have it so good.

>>96733076
I don't think the rebel alliance would agree to any terms that don't offer a substantial regime change. They weren't fighting the emperor personally but the empire.
If the same oppression of the worlds in its domain continues, the rebellion will continue in one form or another.

>>96733663
Doesn't change the fact that Lucas is braindead lmao

>>96733820
Don't bother replying to him, he's one of God's chosen inbreds that craves attention and eats Filoni's ass.

>>96733371
>Genndywars
ws awful, first wave of the endless flood of cloneshit
>Republic comics
more cloneshit
>ROTS
that at least kinde redeemd the prequels as a whole, but Episodes 1 and 2 will forver stand as monuments to bad focus and bad dialogue, respectively.

^ Cool bait.

>>96720017
I really don't like AMG

>>96733704
They certainly wouldn't be buddy buddy with the Empire, but if the Battle of Endor is a draw instead of a route, and the new leader offers a favorable peace then I think it would at least need to be considered. Just having the Empire not in the alliances major home worlds could let them breathe and properly arm. Certainly thered be calls to keep going, but in the short term I could see at least a ceasefire, if not a formal peace treaty.

>>96734116
Ok, but the art is great.

>>96735511
>>96735511
>>96735511