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Thread 96691668

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Anonymous No.96691668 [Report] >>96691685 >>96691705 >>96691722 >>96691747 >>96691756 >>96691983 >>96692130 >>96692400 >>96692617 >>96692626 >>96692887 >>96693223 >>96694545 >>96694601 >>96699047 >>96700160 >>96706485 >>96706585 >>96713009 >>96715446 >>96719209 >>96719861 >>96732025 >>96744563
Why aren't there more modern fantasy settings?
I don't mean urban fantasy, I mean high fantasy settings that have progressed to a state roughly analogous to modern society.
Wizzas dealing scrolls in back alleys, paladins cracking down on black magic users, so on and so forth. I feel like there's a lot of room there to run a fun campaign.
Anonymous No.96691685 [Report] >>96692567 >>96692617 >>96692678 >>96719096 >>96727469 >>96745907
>>96691668 (OP)
Shadowrun exists and it's shit.
Anonymous No.96691705 [Report] >>96691761
>>96691668 (OP)
Eberron exists and it fucking rules
Anonymous No.96691722 [Report] >>96691734 >>96692575
>>96691668 (OP)
they're working on turning 5.5e into that, but with less fent and more fags
Anonymous No.96691734 [Report] >>96692575 >>96703995
>>96691722
there should be an addictive drug that gives you temporary levels
Anonymous No.96691747 [Report] >>96692017 >>96692089 >>96692141 >>96735541
>>96691668 (OP)
There is a lot of room. Problem is - who is going to do all the work in building the setting?
Urban fantasy has three general approaches:
1)Masquerade
2)Suddenly - MAGIC!
3)Fantasy world advanced to modernity

1 - Is the most gay ass approach that shatters at the lightest scrutiny. In most cases author was just a lazy retard who couldn't be assed to actually think about the implications of magic in the modern world. 99% of urban fantasy is this shit.
2 - Magic is extremely recent addition to the world for some reason. A lot of them are pretty fucking gay with authors being either lazy or retarded and a lot of time both.
3 - This approach needs enormous amount of work to do properly. I can't even remember a setting that does this off the top of my head. Though theoretically it would give the most return on investment if you do it right. Except people are lazy and it is way easier to do approaches 1 and 2 even of they suck donkey balls.
Anonymous No.96691756 [Report]
>>96691668 (OP)
Because the modern world lacks the romance that we want from fantasy. But Harry Potter and Shadowrun both exist. It's rare because it's hard to make it interesting.
Anonymous No.96691761 [Report] >>96692811 >>96734424
>>96691705
Isn't Eberron closer to pre-WW1 level instead of Modern? So something like from the middle to the end of 19th century.
Anonymous No.96691983 [Report] >>96713823
>>96691668 (OP)
Discworld is like that and it's getting a TG
Anonymous No.96692017 [Report] >>96694654
>>96691747
3 only really works if magic isn't conjuring fireballs and smiting with lightning bolts and more like meditating/drugging to enter hypnagogic states to communicate with non-physical beings that teach how to do unknown sciences.
that's how real life works btw
Anonymous No.96692089 [Report]
>>96691747
i do think approach 3 is the most interesting and promising. it would be basically a world that followed a different technological progress than ours, developing and speading various magical techs
i think it would be best served by designing a magical system (or multiple ones!) specifically for it, rather than just saying "well d&d has spells to make undead so let's just make a bunch of undead and use them to move stuff"
this system doesn't even necessarily need to be something that the players need to interface too much for their character's mechanics

of course this setting would also have regular technology, but seamlessly combined with the magical side (for example material sciences work with metals, plastics, ceramics, and their alchemical permutations)
Anonymous No.96692130 [Report] >>96692171 >>96692262 >>96692390 >>96694654
>>96691668 (OP)
The problem is technology. If technology of this world is powered by magic, it means that the magic is just a dull metaphor for some vague energy, spice, mana juice. If tech and magic are two separate things, depending on what magic can, they should cancel out each other in a lot of things. Depends on what is more suitable in one situation or the other. But what exactly magic can? Asserting this question turns magic in some defined scientific force...
Anonymous No.96692141 [Report] >>96692171 >>96692262
>>96691747
If by "magic" we mean "supernatural" then a masquerade isn't hard to maintain in the modern age. The supernatural, by definition, cannot be demonstrated. If can be demonstrated and documented, it's natural, and you're just doing a sci-fi world in which "the laws of physics are a little different."

For examples of which see about ten thousand 70s sci-fi novels.
Anonymous No.96692152 [Report] >>96704828
Ahem.
Anonymous No.96692171 [Report] >>96692176
>>96692130
>>96692141
autism: not even once
Anonymous No.96692176 [Report]
>>96692171
>Wants to talk about how science and magic fit together
>"Don't try to scientifically analyze magic, that's autism!"
It's literally necessary to discussing the setting.
Anonymous No.96692262 [Report]
>>96692130
>>96692141
My two favorite 70s "actually it's scifi" settings.
Anonymous No.96692390 [Report] >>96692547
>>96692130
i'm perfectly fine if "magic" is just a shorthand for "special energy or force or other things that don't exist in our world but exist in this setting". It can make for fun fantasy worldbuilding depending on what abilities you give it. we are trying to play or make games here not write pseudointellectual dissertations about finding out if the meaning of "supernatural" can even be defined (which has nothing to do with games)
Anonymous No.96692400 [Report]
>>96691668 (OP)
Ask the worldbuilding general.
Anonymous No.96692547 [Report] >>96744247
>>96692390
Whether or not your setting is coherent has nothing to do with games?

That's only true if you never run a game in them.
Anonymous No.96692567 [Report] >>96692628 >>96701093 >>96744579
>>96691685
Shadowrun is Urban Fantasy, and its actually a really good take on Urban Fantasy as a setting. It's just never had an even half-way passable ruleset attached to it.
Urban Fantasy is when you take the modern world and inject magic into it. What OP wants is fantasy that progressed past the cultural stasis that keeps most fantasy worlds locked into a medieval pastiche stasis.
Anonymous No.96692575 [Report]
>>96691722
>>96691734
D&D 5.5e was made in the greater Seattle-Tacoma area. There was a lot of fent involved, it just was in the boardrooms instead of setting guides.
Anonymous No.96692617 [Report]
>>96691685
Shadowrun is cyberpunk future setting and fantasy, not modern fantasy.

>>96691668 (OP)
Dresden Files RPG
Mage
d20 modern
Pretty much any generic system can fill the role
Anonymous No.96692626 [Report] >>96706284
>>96691668 (OP)
Isnt that basically the superhero genre? If you´re a Sorcerer shooting scorching rays or a X-men mutant shooting energy blasts is kinda whatever at that point. Or if your druid is a druid because of some nature connection or because he went into it poison ivy style.
Anonymous No.96692628 [Report] >>96692667
>>96692567
Nonsense. Shadowrun is the "earth" of Earthdawn. A fantasy setting, exactly like OP asked for. It is progressed forward to a technological level roughly analogous to "today," just like OP asked for.

It is actually a PERFECT example of what OP asked for, which is:
>I mean high fantasy settings that have progressed to a state roughly analogous to modern society.
The fantasy setting is called Earthdawn. The roughly-analogous modern society it progressed into is Shadowrun.
Anonymous No.96692667 [Report] >>96692678
>>96692628
That hasn't been canon since 2nd-edition, grandpa.
Anonymous No.96692678 [Report] >>96693480
>>96692667
So your complaint is that you want >>96691685 to read
>2e Shadowrun exists and it's shit.
Pedantic, but sure.
Anonymous No.96692811 [Report] >>96734424 >>96752401
>>96691761
It's actually Interwar. Roaring 20s with magic.
Anonymous No.96692887 [Report] >>96693211 >>96744267
>>96691668 (OP)
You guys should read the Dresden Files
Probably my favorite blend of modern society with fantasy elements
Anonymous No.96692948 [Report]
I don't know OP. What do you actually want in such setting and maybe we'll be able to tell you what game does that.
Anonymous No.96693211 [Report]
>>96692887
If you want Urban Fantasy, tries Charles de Lint. The writing and characters of his Newford novels are just better than Dresden. Not hating on Butcher--I've read them all. But if you like those, there's a good chance you'll like these even better.
Anonymous No.96693223 [Report]
>>96691668 (OP)

That sounds incredibly dumb and unimaginative.
Anonymous No.96693480 [Report] >>96693513
>>96692678
no, nobody here wants cyberpunk but with magic in it. otherwise op would have asked for cyberpunk. cyberpunk contains a bunch of tropes that are unrelated to modern fantasy and take the focus away from it's core ideas.
Anonymous No.96693513 [Report] >>96695685
>>96693480
That has nothing to do with whether or not Shadowrun is an example of exactly what OP explicitly, specifically asked for. Which it is.
Anonymous No.96694545 [Report] >>96699047 >>96700105 >>96706344
>>96691668 (OP)
I couldn’t tell you why, because I’ve caressed the idea of creating a game with that setting, for a long while.
Inspired by this illustration.
It was roughly our world (so, no made up kingdoms and such) but magic is real and existed right in the open since forever.
But fantasy tropes evolved to blend into modern life, so for example:
>Vampires were some sort of mix between AIDS and weird Hollywood rejuvenating techniques
>Forbidden and a bit shameful, but there’s a few celebrities which are suspected to have caught vampirism
>Magic has mostly been replaced by technology, which is much more scalable, but mages still whispers in the ears of heads of states and powerful CEOs
>Fantasy races have nearly disappeared due to intermarriage, but lots of people are proudly claiming a smudge of elvish ancestry.
Stuff like that.
Then Bright came out and… eh… it wasn’t virgin territory anymore.
Still think it could be very fun.
Anonymous No.96694601 [Report]
>>96691668 (OP)
Wasn’t there that one cartoon called Mysticons that was basically this?
Anonymous No.96694654 [Report]
>>96692017
>>96692130
Objection:
Magic could very well a type of mental ability, channeled through symbols.
Therefore you can’t produce magical effects without a trained adept, possibly one with innate abilities.
Therefore it’s not something you can mass-produce.
So, sure, if you are a powerful magic user you can produce a grenade out of your sheer willpower.
But, guess what? I can pack ten of these and use the time I didn’t waste in the magical academy, to learn how to use a gun instead.
History is full of technologies which were worse than what they replaced, at least initially, but won just by the virtue of being possible to mass produce and/or be used with much less training.
Magic users will still have their use, of course. I mean who doesn’t want a tactical wizard in their squad?
Anonymous No.96695685 [Report] >>96695831
>>96693513
op didn't ask for cyberpunk, so your shit game has nothing to do with the thread at all. migh as well have proposed a fantasy game set in space or in the triassic for how much it fits.
Anonymous No.96695831 [Report] >>96703885
>>96695685
Real life is a (boring) cyberpunk setting.
Anonymous No.96698869 [Report]
>you will never get to participate in the turf war between the east side enchanters and the north side necromancers
it's over
Anonymous No.96699047 [Report] >>96700105
>>96691668 (OP)
Well, would you be interested in getting something like this started, OP?
Have you seen the movie I mentioned >>96694545, Bright?
Is it the kind of vibe you would go for, or do you have anything else in mind?
Anonymous No.96700105 [Report] >>96706344
>>96694545
>>96699047
Bright sucked as "high fantasy real world" because the fantasy aspect was barely there. Besides the magic wand thing and "fantasy" races, it was just 95% our real world.

Even stuff like Shadowrun as a more interesting take on technologically advanced society and magic together. Doing what OP is asking in a fun and interesting way would require the writers and creators to actually be versed in modern politics, society, economy, etc. It would be a much bigger endeavor than just readin about medieval/ancient society and applying magic to said societies that have been studied and settled in stone for centuries.

Ugly Americans is the closest I could feel about a fantasy world where magic and magical creatures actually affected society in a meaningful way and it was a comedy cartoon show.
Anonymous No.96700160 [Report] >>96706344 >>96706344
>>96691668 (OP)
It's hard to do them because you're setting yourself for one of two failures:
>your setting has to remain relatable so it just feels like slapping a coat of magic paint over the existing world
>your setting ends up so convoluted and divergent from the existing world that it's too difficult to get into

If you've got a fantasy setting, it's usually fairly easy to build the world because most people are desperately ignorant of historical civilisations, so you can make assumptions or ignore aspects entirely to make it easy. Fast-forward that setting to now, suddenly you're dealing with concepts most people have an awareness of and can't be overlooked.
Anonymous No.96701093 [Report]
>>96692567
It's literally the same thing.
Anonymous No.96703885 [Report]
>>96695831
>Real life is a (boring) cyberpunk setting.
Actually, cyberpunk was based off of theories of how the future would be, so that's actually not too far from the truth.
Anonymous No.96703995 [Report]
>>96691734
I've got my own take on what OP would call an "urban" fantasy setting and canonically there is a subspecies of human who is more magically-inclined that are basically magic meth babies.

The drug itself which is basically magic crystal meth is an item you can purchase in the system itself, and if you consume it long enough you will get a one-time boost to your Mana Points, forever. Because I thought it would be funny.
Anonymous No.96704828 [Report] >>96706344 >>96734448 >>96746129
>>96692152
Also Final Fantasy 8, especially Final Fantasy 8 since their "magic" is just an imatation of real magic that only a Sorceress can actually use (even though the difference is never really expounded upon)
Anonymous No.96706284 [Report]
>>96692626
It's probably more like Final Fantasy or something, where the modern world isn't a direct copy of ours with a lick of supernatural/paranormal paint on it, but a completely different society informed by the different historical events and advancements that would inevitably come from things like magic existing.
Anonymous No.96706344 [Report] >>96727602
>>96700105
>>96700160
>it just feels like slapping a coat of magic paint over the existing world
>Bright sucked because the fantasy aspect was barely there. It was just 95% our real world.
I could get behind that. Push it down to 80 or 90%, maybe, but that's basically what the idea I entertained >>96694545 was.
To each their own, of course, but mething it has potential to be fun as hell. See pic related
>>96700160
>you're setting yourself for one of two failures
I mean, the Final Fantasy approach >>96704828 is kind of a third way and it works perfectly.
Or, you know, if you can imagine a fantasy world with a wild west tech level, it's not too hard to push it a bit and add cars and cell phones in the mix. There's really a lot of ways to do this.
But apparently OP doesn't care much about his own question, so I'm not going to bother.
Anonymous No.96706485 [Report]
>>96691668 (OP)
Isn't that every brown girl adventure cartoon nowadays? Go to /co/ and ask for the latest show everyone is following.
Anonymous No.96706585 [Report] >>96706633 >>96706637 >>96706735 >>96708019 >>96708578 >>96713804 >>96735690 >>96744334
>>96691668 (OP)
Because there is no good way to do it.

The 'easy' and extremely lazy way to do it is to make a "modern" setting where a world with a totally different set of parameters to ours *somehow* ended up with the exact same technological, social, cultural, arcitectural, etc, developments and choices that we did. This is boring and lame, and the worldbuilding for such a setting is by definition paper thin because you can't GET here from there.

For an example of how astronomically unlikely that is, lets talk about Wireless Power. Wireless Power has existed as a technology since as far back as the late 1890s, though it was largely restricted to the labs and experiments of its inventor. It does exactly what it sounds like: using radio waves, you transmit power through the air and any device with a receiver just soaks up the power from it, no plug in the wall needed. Despite attempts to get this idea to take off, for economic reasons (how do we charge people for this if we have no idea who is using it?) it never took off. It became a lost technology, which a lot of people thought never really worked at all, until it was rediscovered in 2007 and became the basis of modern wireless charging pads for your phone.

But hey, you know what doesn't fucking work with wireless power? Vacuum Tubes. The power in the air fucks with vacuum tubes hard. So lets roll back the clock, make this ONE change (Wireless Power takes off and is implemented on a wide scale, replacing power lines). Guess what happens? Early complex electronics don't work. Computers get stuck at the 'running a paper ribbon through a machine' tier of Turing Machines, because you can't make early electronic computers without vacuum tubes. No computers. No internet. We have broken the tech tree that resulted in the modern world as we understand it.

Now replace "we've had wireless power for 100 years" with "we've had magic for 4000 years, with magical creatures and other humanoid races" and you see the problem.
Anonymous No.96706633 [Report] >>96706647
>>96706585
*blocks your path*
Anonymous No.96706637 [Report] >>96706735 >>96713804
>>96706585
Now, for the sake of argument, lets say that some giga-autist DID sit down, change the fundamental parameters of human civilization and history, and committed to the bit of mathing out how that world would develop on a historical, cultural, technological level. Whatever they came up with would be *incomprehensible* to more than a handful of other nerds.
If you introduce magic to Earth late in the game, you can still have stuff like phones that run apps that auto-summon demons for you with a programmed ritual. But if magic has been around the whole time, and has become commonplace, there won't be phones at all. Why would there be, when you can just communicate via spells like sending or telepathy or whatnot. Want to talk to someone, just astral project my dude.

If magic gets REALLY commonplace, you end up with weird shit like houses don't have doors, only windows, because the windows serve an aesthetic purpose and its just taken for granted that everyone but children knows how to teleport at will, so why would you ever WALK to the kitchen when you can just instantly be there? And if you are not going to walk anyway, why would you need doors?
Why would you ever need computers if you can just summon/bind/create magical servants that do complex tasks for you? You don't need to figure out how to automate things, you already have it perfected. I don't do my own laundry, I have the ghost of a 12th century washerwoman who does it for me. And so on.

You have no choice but to get so deep in the weeds on setting details, because NOTHING that the reader takes for granted exists in the setting as a point of reference, that the setting itself gets in the way of trying to tell any story in it more complex than "See Spot Run".
Anonymous No.96706647 [Report]
>>96706633
The same could be said of all religions.
Anonymous No.96706735 [Report] >>96707041
>>96706585
>>96706637
Fiction is NOT REAL. The likelihood of a fictional universe closely resembling medieval/early renaissance earth + magic is no greater than the likelihood of a fictional universe closely resembling modern earth + magic.

Attempts to justify the base premise of a setting are all equally contrived post hoc arguments. Half of the points you bring up are just that - arguments used to justify the medieval stasis so commonly found in fantasy settings. Most of them fall apart completely with some scrutiny.
But guess what? It doesn't matter, because it's good enough.

You don't have to justify the exact scientific, political, economic, and social conditions stretching back from all of time leading to (and from) John Asswipe inventing the magical radio in 1254. 100% of all settings ever created do not follow that autistic standard.
You can just give people magic communication slates as long as it makes enough sense in context.
Anonymous No.96707041 [Report] >>96707238 >>96708546 >>96708578 >>96713804 >>96735889
>>96706735
>The likelihood of a fictional universe closely resembling medieval/early renaissance earth + magic is no greater than the likelihood of a fictional universe closely resembling modern earth + magic.
That doesn't follow. Agriculture happens when hunting/gathering can no-longer support the population. Land-ownership happens once agriculture creates surplus. War happens once one land owner has a bad year and notices his or her neighbor has a surplus. Patriarchy happens once one army includes women, the other doesn't, and the army that didn't has twice the population one generation later. Metalurgy happens once someone discovers "hey: tools."

You get to the iron age pretty similarly in all societies because of some pretty immutible realities of population management. That's why we can identify an 'iron age" that looks vaguely similar for all of Earth's major civilizations. And most fantasy universes are just "iron age + whatever cultures we wanna dress it up, in."

But where it goes from the iron age to the modern is harder to pin down. Modern Earth exists because of the scientific revolution. It's only happened once. Or maybe 3 times but that's really hard to untangle. We just don't have the examples to say whether or you have to get to a modern world, from an iron age. But we do have the data to say "given X+Y, you get to an iron age."
Anonymous No.96707238 [Report] >>96707349
>>96707041
>That doesn't follow.
It does because FICTION IS NOT REAL.
It requires an equal amount of contrivance to say that arbitrary changes to the world would or wouldn't change an arbitrary amount of history and technology.

Iron Age is 1200-600 BC. Not even remotely close to the complicated societies (1500AD+, which is modern age) of most fantasy settings. And even in the most primitive societies, it's impossible to say how magic (the function of which YOU arbitrarily decide) or other supernatural forces would change things in real life.

Except you don't have to do that, because it's not real life. You can draw whatever end point you want with a decent enough (or even half assed) explanation. Want giant robots? Plot particles or some shit. Want a 10,000 year old gothic castle in your medieval society? Magic causes stagnation, or something.
Anonymous No.96707349 [Report] >>96707471
>>96707238
>Iron Age is 1200-600 BC.
Would you prefer I'd said "antiquity?" Happy to swap it to "antiquity." The point is the same, and "antiquity" is just iron-age+culture so it's the same thing. You'll still get to "antiquity" from any planet with roughly the same resources and people as Earth. To the modern age? We don't know if that'll happen or not.

You can have whatever fiction you want, anon. No one is stopping you. But the iron age necessarily follows from earth-like worlds and people. The modern age? Maybe it does, but we're not sure.
Anonymous No.96707471 [Report] >>96707740
>>96707349
Antiquity is very specifically pre-medieval...

>the iron age necessarily follows from earth-like worlds and people
No.
You don't need iron tools if monster bones are stronger and easier to work.
You don't need carts if you have golems and levitation spells.
You don't even need agriculture if megafauna are plentiful, hunting ability is increased, or you can summon food out of thin air.

There is absolutely no requirement that a fictional world ever resemble anything close to our iron age, or any other age. The fact that some do and others don't is a deliberate decision by the author because, once again, it's FICTION. All of it is controlled by the creator.

As long as your reasoning for why things are the way they are is believable enough (and this does NOT take much), it is a non fucking issue.
Anonymous No.96707740 [Report]
>>96707471
>I want to argue about the taxonomy of how we name ages of western europe and ignore facts
Well get down w/ your bad self and miss the point all you please, anon.
Anonymous No.96707818 [Report]
concession accepted
Anonymous No.96708019 [Report]
>>96706585
>The 'easy' and extremely lazy way to do it is to make a "modern" setting where a world with a totally different set of parameters to ours *somehow* ended up with the exact same technological, social, cultural, arcitectural, etc, developments and choices that we did. This is boring and lame, and the worldbuilding for such a setting is by definition paper thin because you can't GET here from there.

My argument against this is that unless the fundamental physical laws of the universe change, you're more or less going to get the same level of technological development. Obviously culture and history would change significantly with the introduction of magic to our real world's history. But ultimately, especially in the early days of history, technology is gonna be dominated by the mundane. Not every single village is going to have a wizard capable of casting 7th level spells, most common man casters up until like widespread literacy are gonna be low level. (exact specifics vary depending on magic system)
Anonymous No.96708546 [Report] >>96708590 >>96729043
>>96707041
Same argument that was used above applies.

If you can enchant you wooden stick to be magical and undestrucrible, why go through all the hassle to make iron swords? Youtube reconstructors it takes a LOT of skills and work to make it works.
Anonymous No.96708578 [Report] >>96729043
>>96706585
>Guess what happens? Early complex electronics don't work. Computers get stuck at the 'running a paper ribbon through a machine' tier of Turing Machines, because you can't make early electronic computers without vacuum tubes. No computers. No internet. We have broken the tech tree that resulted in the modern world as we understand it.
Except the tech tree progresses differently. In a fantasy setting, who needs wireless electricity as we made it when you can use magic in its place?

>>96707041
>Agriculture happens when hunting/gathering can no-longer support the population
Agriculture has always existed, it was one of the gifts from the goddess of nature to the sapient races.
>War happens once one land owner has a bad year and notices his or her neighbor has a surplus
War happens because the gods are in conflict and their followers take sides, because unlike our world they're real and act on the world in tangible ways.
>Patriarchy happens once one army includes women, the other doesn't, and the army that didn't has twice the population one generation later.
Except it's fantasy, and due to the divine nature of the living sapient races of the world, women and men are equally capable due to the divine magics included in their creation.
>Metalurgy happens once someone discovers "hey: tools."
Another gift from the gods.

You're completely ignoring the fact that a fantasy, fictional setting has factors that we in a mundane world without magic do not. The timeline would likely be much shorter. If you're about to use Faerun as an example of how I'm wrong, the Harpers are the reason why. They're basically CIA glowies who erase anyone who tries to advance society and all the advancements they made from the history books and the world at large. They force medieval stasis in terms of technology in the Forgotten Realms.
Anonymous No.96708590 [Report]
>>96708546
Another example: japan.

It got to an iron age. But their iron age is quite different from the medieval european iron age.
For the original OP question, let me add another low qualitybwork that technically quality.

Monster Hunter International. It is a /k/ series about a guy hunting monsters.

It goes with the masquerade apparoach, but has some funny ideas. Like Frankenstein working for the Feds.
Worldbuilding is trash.
Anonymous No.96713009 [Report]
>>96691668 (OP)
Because Vampire and Cape slop has a monopoly on modern fantasy
Only shadowrun bucks the trend
Anonymous No.96713804 [Report]
>>96706585
>>96706637
>>96707041
I'm not the anon you are arguing with, but if you really want to go full autist with this, you missed one key point:
Fantasy, as a genre, admits a certain amount of arbitrary and illogical cultural convergent evolution, if only for
>most fantasy are just "[tech level] + whatever cultures we wanna dress it up, in."
Because, unless you want to Wings of Honnêamise it and imagine an original culture from the grounds up, everything from the details of the costumes, architecture, language, or the shape of the swords are the result of extremely random sets of circumstances.
If /yourworld/ has a /not-medieval-Europe/, /not-China/, /not-Egypt/ and so on, it implies a certain amount of suspension of disbelief. You accept that history and the development of cultures just so happens to have followed a path similar to our own, despite the initial conditions and the laws of nature being completely different.
If that's too much of a stretch for you, maybe you just need to admit that fantasy is not the right genre for you.
(Scifi doesn't have this issue because it usually is an extrapolation or a derivation of our own world. Middle-Earth and the Hyborian age, too, because they are supposed to be in our past somehow)
Anonymous No.96713823 [Report]
>>96691983
I was also thinking discworld as a setting, but this is even better! Thanks for bringing it to my attention anon!
Anonymous No.96713953 [Report]
That's basically Bloodbowl. We don't really see much of it outside the Bloodbowl matches themselves, but they have a whole magitech industrialized society. Crystal balls have become mass produced enough that even lower class households have them to watch sports and presumably other programming on and there's an expectation that enough people have disposable income that advertising for leisure goods like strong alcohol and designer shoes is widespread.
Anonymous No.96715232 [Report] >>96715303 >>96715399
I think it would be more fun to just insert blatantly anachronistic elements into a still medieval fantasy world.

Like, the town guard would carry swords and stun guns, wearing armor meant to resemble modern police clothing. The average tavern would have a TV to watch jousting tournaments. Airports but with a dragon or other flying creature instead of planes. So on and so forth.
Anonymous No.96715303 [Report]
>>96715232
Sounds like it could get a bit messy as you try to remember which modern contraptions exactly are how easily obtainable and work how exactly (as various supposed prerequisites for their manufacture and/or use may not exist) and under which legal status when the players try to make use of stuff from our world to solve various problems.
Anonymous No.96715399 [Report] >>96718997
>>96715232
Like a shit version of Shrek.
Anonymous No.96715446 [Report] >>96749280
>>96691668 (OP)
I feel like with high fantasy settings, it makes more sense to figure out how a magical civilization would sidestep the need for advanced technology, rather than emulate it; what can a computer do than an enslaved demon can't?
Or a network of enslaved demons communicating via telepathy?
Why develop robotics when you can make a golem?
What's an aeroplane?
Got flight spell, polymorph into bird, tame roc, or magic carpet.
Excavator?
Elemental.
Smartphone?
Scrying Stone.
Train?
Big frenly Snek.
Anonymous No.96718997 [Report] >>96721267
>>96715399
aka based as fuck
Anonymous No.96719096 [Report]
>>96691685
but it's shit because of the system, not the setting
Anonymous No.96719209 [Report]
>>96691668 (OP)
GURPS Technomancer did this. Magic emerged after the first nuclear bomb.
Anonymous No.96719861 [Report] >>96744437
>>96691668 (OP)
How did this thread go for so long and not one mention of Arknights?
Anonymous No.96721267 [Report] >>96721992
>>96718997
No, Shrek is based because it was being a parody. Creating an actual setting on it would be cringe because it misses the point.
Anonymous No.96721992 [Report] >>96730975
>>96721267
I don't speak esl.
Anonymous No.96727469 [Report]
>>96691685
this
Anonymous No.96727602 [Report]
>>96706344
Anonymous No.96729043 [Report]
>>96708578
>who needs wireless electricity as we made it when you can use magic in its place?
>>96708546
>If you can enchant you wooden stick to be magical and undestrucrible, why go through all the hassle to make iron swords?
Wasn't that the exact point he was making though? A fantasy world with the existence of magic is going to follow such a different path of technological progression that it can easily end up being entirely alien.
Which is why when you see modern fantasy settings, they usually assume that magic was hidden or only recently appeared, so that history and technology can play out mostly like real life in order to end up as recognizably modern.

And you can make a fantasy setting with a bunch of technology that resembles the modern day, where people have thin glass slates that function as smartphones or tablets, watch the news from a crystal ball, etc. But by that metric something like Genshin Impact qualifies as modern fantasy when they've just got their magical turntables for DJs.
So if that's all that OP wants, then that's the answer.
Anonymous No.96730975 [Report] >>96731055
>>96721992
Nothing in what I said was remotely foreign, and I'm English, so I'm guessing you're American and can't actually read English.
Anonymous No.96731055 [Report] >>96732545
>>96730975
>it was being a parody
very britisher saar
Anonymous No.96732025 [Report]
>>96691668 (OP)
I fucking hate urban fantasy so I just raw dogged making my own modern fantasy region for my fantasy setting.

>mage country
>do magic or you're worthless to society
>giga blizzard hits the country
>people who cant light magic fires can't survive
>artificers invent frostpunk ass furnaces for the common man
>nobles see this as some gay fuckshit cause its not magical and lobby the government to have them banned
>civil war
>some guy from the metal plane (pathfinder moment) comes to the material and fasttracks artifice to the point of inventing electricity
>magitech doesn't work because magic and machinery mix as well as water and oil.
>engineers win the war and gain independence
>100 years later the country is basically on par with modern day in terms of technological advancement.
>magic is banned both on the principles that it fucks with technology and because fuck magetown USA
>druids and clerics are """""ok""""" because their magic doesn't interfere as much with technology
>races with innate magical capabilities are treated as second class citizens
>"dragons have invaded dave and busters" was a real canonical event in this setting that has the same weight in society as 9/11
Anonymous No.96732545 [Report] >>96732567
>>96731055
And it was, Pablo. No hablo English?
Anonymous No.96732567 [Report]
>>96732545
you're done ranjeet
log off
Anonymous No.96734424 [Report] >>96752401
>>96691761
>>96692811
>roaring 20's with magic
Yeah, it's interesting though. A mix of both pre and post war, though the new book as I understand doesn't quite understand the time period it's trying to copy well so you end up with a lot of vague details
Anonymous No.96734448 [Report] >>96735153
>>96704828
FF8 magic was more like channeling nature spirits which is why you had to draw it, Sorceress had that stuff innate to them so they could just do much more powerful shit
Anonymous No.96735153 [Report]
>>96734448
Let's be real. The whole Sorceress storyline was extremely underdeveloped as with most aspects of FF8's story. The only thing FF8 accomplished was adding to the iconic aspects of the franchise that gets represented in other/adjacent games.
Anonymous No.96735446 [Report] >>96747037
Anonymous No.96735541 [Report]
>>96691747
>1 - Is the most gay ass approach that shatters at the lightest scrutiny. In most cases author was just a lazy retard who couldn't be assed to actually think about the implications of magic in the modern world. 99% of urban fantasy is this shit.
Counterpoint:
Anonymous No.96735603 [Report]
not D&D = no players
Anonymous No.96735690 [Report] >>96737785
>>96706585
A world where Telsa beat Edison and we did have wireless power by default would be an awesome setting to explore. Integrated circuit based mechanisation and the absence of the cathode ray tube and a much later discovery of the transistor would lend itself to a world in which the ability to scale industrial, artisinal, and academic talent drives the world.
Anonymous No.96735889 [Report]
>>96707041
>War happens once one land owner has a bad year and notices his or her neighbor has a surplus
It's usually the reverse. If you have a bad year, you can't afford war. If you have a good year, you can afford war, and the best targets are the people who can't afford war.
This is why the Viking period occurred when Scandinavia was having a population and agricultural boom, despite popular misconceptions that the raiders were raiding because they came from poor and desolate tundras of nothing.
Anonymous No.96737785 [Report]
>>96735690
Wireless power isn't viable even today for physical reasons. It's applicable to VERY short range applications at the very most. In no world would it become the "default" and it certainly wouldn't affect the creation of the vacuum tube at all.
Anonymous No.96737886 [Report] >>96741423 >>96746241 >>96749414 >>96752976
Magic in a modern setting will work best if it's something you can power using technology more so than the other way around. Take the Cultist Simulator universe for example. You get Aspects, bits of flavoured mana basically, through people, places, and things. Technology mainly gives Forge aspect, but it can also give other aspects like Lantern or Knock or what have you. You can use these aspects to perform rituals to summon spirits and such. A fighter jet would have a ton of Forge and Edge and Sky aspect so you could do a ritual requiring a lot of those aspects next to one in order to benefit from its presence.

Whereas if you just made magic its own source of power then you get into all sorts of gay shit like replacing power plants with a dude casting fireball at a tank of water to run a turbine or whatever.
Anonymous No.96741423 [Report] >>96741919
>>96737886
>Take the Cultist Simulator universe for example.
Do you have any other example settings that handle the idea well?
Anonymous No.96741919 [Report] >>96743326 >>96752976
>>96741423
Not to a huge extent. You can find little hints of it in something like LotR where the act of crafting something great is basically magic, or the general concept of leylines maps somewhat to places-have-aspect in CS (but in CS it's not about leylines per se, rather it's about the nature of a place and what its history is - so a hospital where they did a lot of experimental surgeries has a bit of Knock aspect because that's the aspect of doors and wounds, and an abandoned factory has a bit of Forge aspect because that's the aspect of artifice and fire) but in general I think the full system that CS/BoH does is fairly unique. Unless that's how Victorian magicians saw it, which, who knows, maybe they did. I'm not familiar with Victorian magic but supposedly CS/BoH takes a lot of inspiration from it.

I do think it's a pretty great system. It allows you to have items that maybe aren't magic themselves (or maybe they are, in some cases) but that are nonetheless useful as part of a mage's arsenal because they're very useful in rituals. It emphasizes places and moods. It largely avoids direct "cast fireball" type magic, focusing instead on summoning powerful spirits, or having powerful allies who have studied a given art. And the nature of its gameplay lets it get away with a lot of vagueness - this guy is high in Edge, say - that makes him really good in direct combat. But how? Does it make him stronger? Is he high in Edge just because he's really good at combat? It's not made clear and you're free to let your imagination wander, but while the magic is vague and mysterious, the gameplay mechanics are crystal clear. So you get to eat your cake and have it too.
Anonymous No.96743326 [Report] >>96744451
>>96741919
Speaking of tabletops and Cultist Sim.
Has there been anything about tabletop stuff in CS/BoH/Fallen London setting?
Something inspired by it all would work for antique "modern" fantasy.
Something like C'thulhu stuff, but even more subtle like CS.
Anonymous No.96744247 [Report] >>96746461
>>96692547
>Whether or not your setting is coherent has nothing to do with games?
It really doesn't in 95% of games. Most players will either not notice inconsistencies or ignore it to give the GM grace, so it'll only actually matter to the GM.
Anonymous No.96744267 [Report]
>>96692887
Dresden Files does a nice mix worldbuilding-wise, but being in Harry's head is a fucking pain and the characters in general are pretty unlikeable or forgettable.
Anonymous No.96744317 [Report]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKNt3j-4bNg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMyvIDLAub8
Anonymous No.96744334 [Report]
>>96706585
You could very easily go the MtA route and just say that the current level of technological development is ALREADY a result of magical interference and most people simply don't know it.
Anonymous No.96744437 [Report] >>96754631
>>96719861
Magic doesn't really have as much of an influence on the technological development of that world because it's generally both very limited and personalized outside of very basic telekinetic usage. And ritual magic is so localized it basically never made it out into the wider world.

Basically the biggest effect of Arts is that the gun-worshipping theocracy discovered using magic to shoot guns and thus stymied the discovery and use of gunpowder.

The anatomical differences between races and just everyone generally having much higher physical capabilities than humans affected the world's a development a shitload more than the existence of Arts.
Anonymous No.96744451 [Report] >>96745859
>>96743326
Fallen London already has its own kickstarted TTRPG in the works.
Anonymous No.96744563 [Report]
>>96691668 (OP)
Cloudbreaker. There's paladins with magic-powered smartphones they can use to call their HQ, There's cars and motorcycles but the legions of undead aren't gonna kill themseves and magic swords deal more damage than guns (which are also available)
Anonymous No.96744579 [Report]
>>96692567
yeah but the difference is they don't live in stone castles anymore just like da real wurld so i think it's pretty close to what OP is asking for, it doesn't have the same gandalf wizard culture either
Anonymous No.96745859 [Report] >>96752976
>>96744451
Fucking noice. While we're on the subject, what'd be a good way to adapt this sort of magic-not magic into some existing system?
I'm fond of the whole "conceptual aspect, and it's influence" thing, but have no idea where to even start with something like that.
>what system, nogames?
The only two I'm familiar with is GURPS and D&D 3.5, I'd rather try it with the former — homebrewing this stuff in D&D sounds like aids.
Anonymous No.96745907 [Report]
>>96691685
Explicitly not what he asked for.
Anonymous No.96746129 [Report]
>>96704828
>even though the difference is never really expounded upon)
Sorceresses can create life, teleport, control minds, and compress time, all things that pseudomagic can't do.
The magical power inside a sorceress is also alive, and it won't let her die without passing it on. A sorceress' power also corrupts her, which is why so important for a sorceress to have a knight; without companionship, they turn into monsters, like Adel, or that giant worm sorceress.
Anonymous No.96746152 [Report]
Because nowadays it's complicated to do urban fantasy without someone getting annoyed and say "you misinterpreted my culture" and demanding you hire a "sensitiviness consultant" or whatever to check if your work is right.
Look at 5th edition of World of Darkness: Completly fangless and corporate shit.
Anonymous No.96746241 [Report] >>96749333 >>96749414
>>96737886
>if you just made magic its own source of power then you get into all sorts of gay shit like replacing power plants with a dude casting fireball at a tank of water to run a turbine or whatever.
Not to refute your point, because indeed having technologically fuelled magic is a cool concept, but that's where you can really see how technology has the benefit of being able to scale up much better than magic.

Assuming we stick to D&D RAW and assuming a fireball has a power equivalent to a hand grenade:
>An MK3A2 hand grenade contains 8 ounces of explosive, which gives us 0.95MJ of energy
>A wizard needs to be at least level 5 before he can conjure fireballs (level 3 spell). He can then do it twice a day, three times a day if he takes the Arcane Recovery feat
>All in all, this gives us an energy output of 2.85MJ per day
>On top of that, turbines have at best a 30-40% energy conversion efficiency
>A modern coal plant has a power output of around 43,200,000MJ per day. That's around 45 million times the energy output of the wizard. A 19th century coal plant is much less powerful, but still roughly the equivalent to 60 thousand wizards using fireballs every day.
>A guy pedalling on a dynamo generates around 100W, which, if he pedals a reasonable 8 hours a day, amounts to 2.88MJ per day. That's slightly more than the wizard. Any any idiot can pedal all day, while becoming a wizard requiers years of intense study and training.
>As per older editions, you would expect only around 40 wizards per 100k people in a given population (comparable to the number of PHDs in a modern population, only 10-20% of which would be level 5 of above. So even if all of them spend their days casting fireballs, that would still be a negligible energy output compared to a power plant.
Comes to think of it, if you want to get into thermodynamic autism, you could even assume that the energy deployed during traditional spell casting was actually accumulated energy emitted by the wizard's body
Anonymous No.96746461 [Report]
>>96744247
NTA, but personally as a perma-GM I LIVE for aspie players getting passionate about my setting and try to figure out which kind of tectonic could lead to the particular outline of the coast on a map I originally drew by scribbling at random on a napkin.
So even if it doesn't matter 95% of the time, that one 5% of time makes it all worth it.
Anonymous No.96747037 [Report] >>96751367
>>96735446
Where's my Arknights TTRPG?
Anonymous No.96749280 [Report]
>>96715446
unfortunately enslaved demons went the way of putting radioactive stuff in foods, or using lead for paint and plumbing.
they also make dealing with antiques much more exciting
Anonymous No.96749333 [Report]
>>96746241
That's cool and all, but if your magic system boils down to energy production, well, that's kind of a bad and boring magic system.
Anonymous No.96749414 [Report] >>96749759 >>96751499
>>96737886
>>96746241
>Whereas if you just made magic its own source of power then you get into all sorts of gay shit like replacing power plants with a dude casting fireball at a tank of water to run a turbine or whatever.
You are thinking too much about magic as a personal thing that only comes from people with magical class features. Worldbuilding like this would assume that the wizard is getting fire (or the energy needed to create it) from something else rather than being the sole source of it, something like the Shinra Electric Power Company, or an Elden Ring-like big-ass magic tree that people are discovering new applications for (maybe its roots can carry informations so it becomes the basis for the rootnet)
It should be less like "well I can just enchant items with generic magic to make them better" or "I magic food out of nothing on industrial scale" and more about inventing magical forces that interact with the setting on a large scale
>But then it would be the same as real life power sources!
Well, yes, but they can also have magical properties like granting powers to people or allowing to easily create sentient constructs or flying machines or telepathy, generally any fantasy thing you want in your setting.
You could also have them be literally the same thing as real life power sources, but with added magic. Maybe makes for a gritty industrial magic setting: oil, coal, gas, nuclear each have their own supernatural aligment, stuff like that
Anonymous No.96749759 [Report]
>>96749414
This works, too. Plus you can imagine that tapping into the mana as an energy source for an industrialised society would come with a bunch of unpleasant long term nasty side effects, for that sweet sweet global warming allegory.
It feels like the premises “magic is real
>and it is now used to power industry”
>and it can be powered by the industry”
>but it is much less efficient and slowly being replaced by the industry”
Each lend themselves to very different types of worlds and world building (and each of them cool in their own way desu)
Anonymous No.96751005 [Report]
you could name the necromancer wizza faction "crypts" and the blood magic wizza faction "bloods"
Anonymous No.96751367 [Report]
>>96747037
Honestly, you can probably just refluff any of the Warhammer TTRPGs
Anonymous No.96751499 [Report] >>96752090
>>96749414
Yeah, it's not inherently wrong to use magical means to recreate modern/sci-fi tech a long as the arcane aspect remains and introduces interesting nuances.

One example I've seen is a necromancy-powered cyberpunk setting where the collective ghosts of the megacity's population is used as its form of internet and general cybernetic infrastructure. Literal memories used as packets of data send across chains of intermingled spirits, drones piloted by frankenstein'd echoes of hyper-efficient and obedient corporate slaves, viruses and hacks comprised of sheer concentrated trauma launched through a kamikaze spirit, firewalls carefully sculpted of memories of endurance or coping with grief. And the local equivalents of "EMPs" a Netherbombs that effectively exorcize a area and convert it to a temporary holy ground that is also now a blind spot to most necro-tech forms of surveillance.

Heck, many of industries and machines of war are powered by fragments of ancient slain Gods whose still-sprawling corpses are harvested to perform fantastical acts that keep megacity with a population in trillions afloat and provide each megacorporation with their personal Paradise realms.
Anonymous No.96752090 [Report]
>>96751499
this gives me an idea, magic of a certain kind may be widespread in some place but outlawed in some other, because once you go hard on one kind of magic then contradicting supernatural forces risk interfering with the local magic works, making them unreliable or causing side effects.
this of course opens the door to black markets and smuggling, and justifies factions and locations with wildly different aesthetics and powers
Anonymous No.96752401 [Report]
>>96692811
>>96734424

>roaring 20's with magic

If anyone on earth exists who has not read Mother of Learning yet and wants more of this, you should. It's good.

Completely original fantasy world with actually thought out worldbuilding and history.
For example mages used to be nobles and priests only. But recently there was a big war that didn't go as expected. Powerful countries relied more on mages. Poor countries tried had to go more heavily on these new 'gun' things'. Since mages mostly stood around in the open waving their arms in the beginning, volley fire tended to break people's shield and the guns worked better than expected.
This had the knock-on effect of the middleclass getting more access to magic because the academies that teach it needed to make cash now that a bunch of people were dead, and so MC is *only* the child of nouveau rich and not a nobleman (teaching magic is expensive).

Not quite what OP wants as it wont be modern day for another fifty to a hundred years, but it definitely feels like a modern world that is progressing around the MC.
Anonymous No.96752451 [Report]
intelligence + wisdom + ielziaseh are all you need to beat OR
anything else is bloat
Anonymous No.96752976 [Report]
>>96737886
>>96741919
Honestly that seems like a better angle than most magitech concepts out there. Where rather than just sticking an explicitly magic crystal in the hilt of a sword to light the blade on fire, a mage is reliant on the effort and ingenuity used to forge the sword itself, and lighting a sword on fire is going to consume the sword in the process and reduce it to slag.

And it makes it so any given mundane object can serve as fuel for spells, depending on the scale and craftsmanship. Which also helps to provide a reason why technology would have continued to develop even in a world with this sort of magic, because it's inherently reliant on human progress in order to get stronger spells.
Any impacts of magic on society and warfare would lag behind normal technology.

>>96745859
For at least a basic implementation, I think it'd be simple enough to use the material as the requirement for a spell, depending on power. Then it's mostly a case of assigning a point value to various categories of objects, and then aligning that point value to either a mana cost, spell level, or other prerequisites.

So in the case of GURPs (if I remember how the system works correctly), you could have something with 5 points of Forge, which you would spend in place of Fatigue (maybe with a minimum cost of 1), and then could be used to cast any spell that has less than 5 prereqs to learn (so that you need more powerful objects to cast bigger spells).
And you could potentially just pin objects to technological eras. Stone age 1, Bronze Age 2, Iron Age 3, Steel 4, Age of Sail 5, Industrial Revolution 6, World Wars 7, Modern 8. Then add or remove points if something is particularly simple or complex, and that probably gives you a good baseline.

The spell list itself would probably need to be curated and sorted into the categories so that the effects match the sorts of materials involved.
Anonymous No.96754631 [Report]
>>96744437
I thought that the Humans were basically transcended aliens hence the Doctor/Endministrator