Thread 96692238

For discussion of D&D 3.0 and 3.5e

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> 3.5
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> 3.0
http://web.archive.org/web/20060330114049/http://www.crystalkeep.com:80/d20/rules3.0.php
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>3e Resource Index Version 2024-04-17
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/92491374/#92530275
Previous thread: >>96637348
Thread Question: It's commonly agreed that the main failing of 3.5 is there aren't enough spells. Make a new spell. (Subquestion - what's up with this book and why does it have four different covers?)

>>96692238 (OP)
>Thread Question: It's commonly agreed that the main failing of 3.5 is there aren't enough spells.
I'll fucking cut you, anon.

>>96692238 (OP)
>Make a new spell.
No. I'm not doing the work of making your next shitbrew setting for you, do it yourself.

>>96691450
>84 stat point champion has a bloodline roll of 14
You qualify for a major bloodline, which increases your score by another +4 for a total of 18(Also get stuck with a +1 LA, but you can buy that off at next level).
You automatically develope 1 major and 1 minor bloodline power, which are basically mutant superpowers nobles get from generations of inbree-I'm mean the blessings of the gods.
>above average 72 point guy has bloodline 10
Pathetic minor bloodline. Doesn't qualify for any bonuses and gets no alabama superpowers.

>>96692238 (OP)
>Thread Question: It's commonly agreed that the main failing of 3.5 is there aren't enough spells.
Several threads ago I made a spell that was kind of like Battletide but for my character's Deity.
>pic related

>(Subquestion - what's up with this book and why does it have four different covers?
Seconding. What's up with that?
My softcover version looks like the OP's.

>>96692306
That's awesome Artificer bro keeps winning

>It's commonly agreed that the main failing of 3.5 is there aren't enough spells. Make a new spell.
Here's the new and improved create cookie

Create Cookie
Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Brd 0, Sor/Wiz 0
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: One conjured cookie +1/lvl.
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

This spell creates one cookie and another cookie for each caster level. Each cookie is exactly one ounce, must be made of normal edible materials as typical for a cookie, and can be a flavor or any combination of flavors that the caster specifies when casting the spell. For example, one chocolate chip cookie, one pumpkin cookie, one iced lemon cookie, and so on. The cookies can't contain precious materials or swallowable but harmful materials, for example, the caster can't create cookies with gold leaf or scorpion venom frosting. The cookies provide nourishment as normal for food, and will eventually spoil if left uneaten - but why would you not eat them?

Material components: A pinch of flour, a pinch of sugar, a sprinkle of salt, a single pat of butter, and the empty broken eggshell of a bird.

>>96692364
>Bro forgot he rolled Hotness 8 last thread

>>96692306
>mutant superpowers nobles get from generations of inbree-I'm mean the blessings of the gods
>alabama superpowers
I'm suddenly Very interested in this setting.

>>96692611
It was a 9 & that can be fixed
>>96647829

Literally the only thing he's bad at is barely a -1 & its probably something like, "You look fine but you need to take care of yourself better & stop toiling in your workshop all night"

>>96692719
>& that can be fixed
It actually can't. There's so little content that uses Hotness that only way to raise your appearance/beauty/whatever ability score is to dedicate the ability score increases from levels to it.
There are no manuals that give it an inherent bonus, not magic items for hotness, etc. Like IRL, you just have to learn to live with being a butter-face.

>>96692587
>one cookie and another cookie for each caster level
I know how this'll end

>>96693082
Petrify+Sculpt Stone+really good Sculpt skill, , use Body Outside Body or any other clone effect, or even a Dedicated Wright with the right skills. Go from fugly to a chad easily. Hell, you could sculpt yourself a ten foot cock if you wanted

>>96692238 (OP)
My dream spell for metamagic seed purposes:

>Sonic Turbulence
Evocation [Sonic]
Level: Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Long (400 ft. + 40 ft. level)
Target: Living creatures, no two of which can be more than 40 ft. apart
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will partial
Spell Resistance: Yes

>You bark the last word of the spell, and that word takes life, streaking toward your targets and causing sound to shockwave through in an area.

You create a brief but loud noise adjacent to each target, dealing 1 points of sonic damage per caster level to each target (maximum 10). Each target must also succeed on a Will saving throw or be deafened for 1 round. This spell has no effect if cast into the area of a silence spell.

>>96693446
While this being SR Yes sucks, the spell it's based on (Sonic Snap) has it too

>>96693250
Anon, none of that has any mechanical effect on a character's ability scores. It's pure headcanon and cope.

>>96693446
>>96693483
Hail of Stone
https://dndtools.net/spells/spell-compendium--86/hail-stone--4677/

>SR? No
>Conjuration Effect so AMF doesnt stop shit.
>Level 1 so plenty of space for Metamagic
>Area of effect so it targets multiple creatures
>Untyped damage

>>96693848
Yeah, that's a classic. I invented Sonic Turbulence for pinpoint targeting, like Wings of Flurry.

>>96693994
Yeah but you spell in comparison isnt as good as Hail so you should punch it up a bit & add some more advantages. Especially for a higher level spell. Id say yours is in the 1-2 range

>>96694098
Good point. I'll probably make it 2 and SR No

What even is a reasonable backstreet for a dread necromancer to become a rainbow servant? I was thinking about a guy who was cursed into inheriting the legacy of an evil ancestors and who strives to do good deeds to avoid falling into evil ways.

>>96696798
Necromancy isn't inherently evil anon. Historically it was what all positive energy healing spells were classified under too.
The reason 3e has healing under conjuration and evocation is because one of the wotc devs forced his shitbrew into the core rules. It literally contradicts the lore.

>>96696854
Adding to this, that's the entire reason for the clerics having the positive/negative healing/harm dichotomy. All of them were necromancers, because their entire class was centered on dealing with the Afterlife.

>>96696854
>The reason 3e has healing under conjuration and evocation is because one of the wotc devs forced his shitbrew into the core rules. It literally contradicts the lore.
The damage of nobody wrangling the "ick" away from Evil to D&D is immeasurable. Probably better off conjuring up an entirely new Alignment system that separates out these taboos properly instead of one big bucket of "Evil" for midwits to keep ignoring the Law/Chaos axis for... But then, all the official settings based on the Great Wheel have to be abandoned, and Hasbro can't allow THAT to happen!

>>96696854
There's a few cultures that embrace death & colorful clerics.

>>96697102
Thank you, you helped me put everything together.

>>96693082
What is it even from?

>>96697790
Comeliness was from D&D 1e I think, maybe the DMG?

>>96697790
No clue which book has it, but he's 100% wrong. The stat is based on 100% surface level aesthetics & everyone knows what's hot & what's not. All you gotta do is find a way to mimic hotness which sculpting will do, it's fantasy plastic surgery

>>96692306
What are the bloodlines from too for that matter.

>>96697821
Bloodlines are from Birthright.

>>96697790
Comeliness from Dragon magazine(ported from 2e as an optional rule), Appearance from book of erotic fantasy, and Beauty from chainmail bikini
They're the same stat under different names.

>>96697821
It from the "Birthright Campaign Setting" a port of the a-fore mentioned 2e setting to 3.5e
Like Dark Sun, Planescape, and Spelljammer, wotc couldn't be asked to make the setting properly themselves and just stamped the "Officially approved" license on a fanwork that was good enough for them.
Liscenced fanwork page:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160331225025/http://www.birthright.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=BRCS:Main_Page
WOTC agreement:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160331224046/http://www.birthright.net/forums/showwiki.php?title=BR_nets_agreement_with_WOTC

If we're getting into obscure shit, why has no one mentioned rokugan or trinity yet?
Who wouldn't want to be a spandex-wearing Nova fighting Dragons!

>>96698967
>d20 trinity
Ah yes, the d20 book series that fixed the entire martial-caster disparity issue with it's second book, Aberrant. Martials could suddenly take a + 0 LA template that let them get X-men superpowers and a line of feats that could turn them into Superman.
...Then they fucked it up with the third book by letting psionic characters do the same thing, but better in every way.

Odd question: in the DMG, the table for estimating magic item base prices gives the default for command word items as "spell level x caster level x 1800". On the same table it gives instructions for dividing that number up for uses/day. However, I have repeatedly seen other people refer to that base price of "spell level x caster level x 1800" as being the base price for a command word item with unlimited uses per day instead of 5 uses/day. Are they just plain wrong, or am I missing a key bit of text somewhere?

>>96699691
>Are they just plain wrong, or am I missing a key bit of text somewhere?
It's the latter. The text clarifies that At-Will items have the same price as 5/day items(Retarded as that sound, WotC goes with the assumption a GM will have 5 encounters a day max)

>>96692238 (OP)
>It's commonly agreed that the main failing of 3.5 is there aren't enough spells.
I know this is probably ironic trolling but to some extent I actually agree. I feel like each cleric domain should have it's own full spell list sometimes. Playing a cleric of Pelor and trying to cast as many Light spells as possible and flavor non-Light spells as other aspects of Pelor's will, gets difficult. Bull's strength? Okay, well strength is a domain of Pelor. It makes sense.

How do I justify casting Shivering Touch as a cleric of Pelor? it just doesn't make sense.

I'm not saying every deity should have its own 3d6 Dex drain meta spell, but even just the domain choices alone kind of suck. Even just generic low level "flash of light to blind people" type of stuff would be nice. Something that isn't just being a blaster with Bolt of Glory and Radiant Assault at higher levels.

And a good chunk of those Save or Die cleric spells are either evil aligned, or necromancy, which a lot of DMs will frown on a good-aligned cleric for casting.

>>96700264
>which a lot of DMs will frown on a good-aligned cleric for casting
If they do, throw a 2e lorebook at them. Necromancy is literally the source of the cleric class, it's not "Designated Evil School".

>>96700315
Exactly. There's a reason the Evil tag for spells exist.
Bestow Curse is Necromancy and it's not considered evil.
Animate Dead is Necromancy [Evil].

>>96692238 (OP)
>Make a new spell
Grow familiar, a 4th level transmutation spell that increases the size of the user's familiar for 1 hour/level.

Not really sure how to handle max size though, I kinda like the idea of something like the giant size spell where the size increases with the caster level, but that could escalate quickly because of the duration. Mostly I want jus tsomething capable of growing a familiar up to medium or large size for a while, which could potentially even allow them to serve as mounts.

>>96700407
>Grow familiar
Already exists. That's a 3e spell from Tome and Blood.

>>96692238 (OP)
>Book PDFs
>https://mega.nz/folder/GMMUDLCK#1IXzJk1_yxlgNmPABGjcyw
I've uploaded D20 trinity to the Mega

I've played in rp-heavy low magic games, grindy high difficulty punishing dungeon crawl games, but despite seeing people complain about it I've never played in an overpowered 'monty-haul' campaign with lots of loot and allowing obscure classes and optimization. I think I want to. I think I would like to play some sort of high-point buy gestalt monstrosity built out of thrifty different splatbooks in a campaign with a reactive GM who lets us be movers and shakers in the setting, and who don't feel the need to be all "you're small and insignificant next to the real powers of the setting" and enforce stagnation. Sounds like it'd be fun. Anyone else feel the same?

>>96700485
I don't think it does? Like I it has the enhance familiar and fortify familiar spells (which gave me the idea) but I am not seeing anything that would change the size

>>96700579
It's an absolute pain in the ass to DM. It's kinda manageable without full casters, but if players are going full tilt GM is fucked.
We played a game with 4 level 15 wizards which specifically were supposed to be local archmages and royal advisors that occasionally go on enthusiastic walks as a kind of gentleman's club activity. DM also wanted to try it.
If I remember right we had teleportation specialist, summoner specialist, abjurer specialist and transmutation/blaster hybrid. So archmages had their yearly meeting, cross referenced each other for anyone making waves in their kingdoms or spheres of influence and then, within the week, cleared every last motherfucker on that list. OOC it was basically DM scrambling to keep up with 4 guys teleporting over half a continent and killing or fucking over people in different ways.

We dealt with initial problems but he decided not to continue since it was just too much to keep in your head and notes, especially when wizards are constantly throwing curve balls with their spells. I don't remember a single opponent that lasted more than three rounds. Assuming they got to do anything at all. A lot of them just died to a bunch of buffed celestial lions going "om-nom-nom" on them.

We mostly switched to E6 for D&D after that.
__________________
Overall it was a fun experience and if you can find a DM brave or autistic enough to agree to that I recommend to try it at least once.

>>96700350
>>96700315
True, and it is more of a "me" thing than a DM thing but some DMs do frown upon it.
Especially with stuff like book of exalted deeds I really end up wanting to cast "good coded" spells as much as possible. Even using cold-themed spells like hypothermia as a cleric of Pelor feels... weird
>Pelor, bless us with your absence (???)
Maybe I'm just autistic.

>>96700826
I could see how it could be nightmarish on the administration side, you'd need some good spreadsheets and premade buff setups, etc. to speed up play and even then it'd be a real bitch. But man, that sounds like a lot of fun!

>>96701126
>Maybe I'm just autistic.
Anon, You're on 4chan. Just accept it already.

>>96700587
Oh, I may be wrong then.

>>96700350
>Animate Dead is Necromancy [Evil].
Apparently Seed of Undeath and its Greater version from Complete Mage at the same Sorc/Wiz level and Black Onyx gem per HD price-tag isn't, acting as a Fort save vs. reanimation a round after death instead of otherwise-procured corpse to minion. Which seems to be the only Zombie-making spells lacking the tag, with the former possibly saving on cost if you force HD after the fact and the latter being a 40 ft. emanation with a cost that breaks even at 200 HD affected which... Isn't actually that difficult given you have CL days to kill enough in there.

The murder-pit being an exception sounds like a mistake.

>>96702085
And because I am dumb and messed up describing I'll try just quoting my PDFs:

>SEED OF UNDEATH
Necromancy
Level: Cleric 4, sorcerer/wizard 4
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 full round
Range: Touch
Target: Living humanoid or animal
touched
Duration: 1 day/level (D)
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
>The subject's face briefly takes on a gaunt, pale look and a death's-head rictus before returning to normal.
You plant a kernel of negative energy in a subject, which is held in check by the
positive energy inherent to the subject's own life force. Seed of undeath does not, in and of itself, harm the subject. Should the subject die before the spell expires, however, it rises as a zombie 1 round later (as per the animate dead spell), as long as a sufficient corpse remains.
Any undead created in this manner are automatically under your control. At any given time, you can have a number of HD worth of undead animated through seed of undeath equal to your own HD, and they count against the maximum number of HD worth of undead you can control at any time (as described under animate dead).
Material Component: A black onyx gem worth 25 gp per HD of the subject.

>SEED OF UNDEATH, GREATER
Necromancy
Level: Cleric 7, sorcerer/wizard 7
Components: V, S, M
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area: 40-ft.-radius emanation
>Every creature in the area briefly takes on a corpselike appearance, then returns to normal.
This spell functions like seed of undeath, except it applies to any humanoid or animal that dies in the area while the spell is in effect.
Corpses of creatures that died before you cast the spell, or that died outside the area and were then carried within, are unaffected.
>Material Component: A black onyx worth at least 5,000 gp.

I am pretty sure just increasing the amount of negative energy on the material plane is supposed to be considered evil by itself.

>>96702418
Negative Energy is from an Inner Plane, Evil is from the Lower which are Outer. It is not justifiable under the standard Great Wheel cosmology, and rips away any idea of life/death balancing from Druids.

I do not care what Book of Vile Darkness says, it is an especially odious example of what I mentioned in >>96696929

>>96702418
Anon, Negative energy isn't Evil and Positive energy isn't Good.
Excessive positive energy is how you get Ragnorra, a literal Elder Evil that turns entire worlds into far-realm nightmares.

>>96699660
>>96700490
Holy Shit anon wasn't kidding. One of the feats can get you a +100 strength with an upgraded version of hulking hurler's entire schtick(has a range measured in Miles, based on your improved strength score).
I wish this fucking book wasn't obscure as hell back in 2009, I would've loved having a martial bbeg that wasn't a joke.

>>96702996
I think Ragnorra is technically "out of tune", raw excess just explodes you.

Hot Druid tip, wildshape into a dire skunk and ruin everyones lives

>>96703733
>>>/trash/

>>96700826
In my experience D&D in any edition starts to destabilize once players get access to teleport, and then even more when they can get multiple casts and more reliable teleports available. It's not just teleport but I do think it's patient zero. The minds of most players and DMs I've met (including mine) aren't attuned to the amount of options that high level spellcasting unlocks. Rhialto starts to get a little too Marvelous.

Is there a list of what books are NOT in the Spell Compendium? Or what books are? Hard to figure out which other books I need to be looking in to make sure I am seeing all the possible spells.

>>96704566
tons of them aren't in the book.
Though someone made a list that does include almost every spell
https://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=9784.0

>>96704566
At a certain point "all the spells" is barely better than homebrew because the majority are doing roughly the same things in roughly the same ways and it's the outliers with fucked up edge cases that offer anything of note.

>>96704628
ooh thank you.

>>96707332
true but I want to take full of advantage of being a cleric with max flexibility.

>>96692238 (OP)
>Thread Question: It's commonly agreed that the main failing of 3.5 is there aren't enough spells. Make a new spell.

Beast-Soul Bestowal
Necromancy
Level: Druid 5, Ranger 4
Components: s, m, f
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Touch
Targets: One humanoid, monstrous humanoid, or giant and one soul of an animal or magical beast with the type solely due to increasing an animal's intelligence
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates and Will partial (see text)
Spell Resistance: No

The ghostly figure of a beast seeps from its own face, shaping the garment it is sewn to into a fascimaly of its own form then twisting its wearer to fit within them.

Upon casting this spell, the target soul is drawn from a recepticle such as the gem of Trap the Soul or a manifested state such as a Ghost Brute (Libris Mortis pg. 101) through animal skins into a target humanoid, monstrous humanoid, or giant at most one size category larger or smaller and at least two levels higher, turning the latter into an Afflicted Lycanthrope with the former as the base animal (using Animal HD as normal even if its type has changed) initially in Hybrid form (Fort negates), save that the target soul is in control during involuntary transformations rather than acting according to an alignment determined by the base creature's species and XP is gained as if the target soul were a cohort of the target humanoid, monstrous humanoid, or giant instead of adding their hit dice together.

A target soul may attempt a Will save, and if they pass it they may take on a more intrusive possession as a fiend in the controller role (see Fiendish Codex I pg. 23).

Material Component: Hide armor fitted for the target humanoid, monstrous humanoid, or giant including the upper half of the head of a member of the target soul's species that has been tattooed, dyed, carved, or otherwise decorated with 25 gp worth of runes per HD of the target soul.

>>96710810
I misread this and thought you only gave them lycanthropy for 1 round/caster level, which would be very silly given the level of artifice involved

>>96711074
Also needs mere-dispel protection and some more of the interactions defined like Ghostwalk's Dispel Possession and using the Transformer mode for forcing Hybrid and Animal Form via Lycanthropy, though I ran out of space. Probably should up the cast time since that (and the Animate Dead price-point that I'm baffled at using given Lycanthropy bonuses) is left over from a "sick it on the target from a distance" mode dropped because mixing together the wording was a horrible mess.

Somehow forgot about Extract Gift which would be a perfect starting point for itemization cost. Maybe shift into XP payed by the host of the cast adding the capability to the animal soul so it serves as a quasi-symbiont, with a web of spells and probably magic items separating out the effects relatively finely so each individual one is a fairly brief piece of text and them being in the Ranger list is more excusable, then the full-on Lycanthropy is specified as a not-quite-a-spell-of-its-own requiring all the constituent features.

>>96692238 (OP)
I'm more into making (too many) Psionic powers since there ACTUALLY aren't enough of those but I did make one spell since the idea was too funny to not do something with
Greed’s Reward
Conjuration
Level: Clr 4, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 10 Minutes
Range: Touch
Target: 100 GP worth of coins/level
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: None
With this spell, you cause a pile of coins to double in volume, each coin in the pile producing an identical twin of itself, down to the smallest detail. However, the coins produced by this spell are not perfect, and while they may weigh the same, closer inspection reveals that they feel slightly off in some way, and an even more thorough investigation reveals that the coins produced have been debased and are thus only worth half their original value. A character can attempt to pass these coins off as a genuine article with a successful opposed bluff check with the opposing creature getting a +5 bonus to its sense motive check, plus an additional +2 for every 5 ranks in appraise it has. Furthermore, even if the creature fails their sense motive check, a DC 12 Appraise check reveals the true value of the coins. Any creature that passes the sense motive check has their attitude towards the character attempting to use them lowered by one step, with an unfriendly NPC charging 150% the previous price (in non-debased coins) and a hostile one refusing to sell entirely. If an NPC fails their sense motive but succeeds the appraise check, they will still the charge normal price for the item they are selling, though they will require 10 minutes for every 100 coins paid between payment and actually providing the good or service to verify the amount paid is correct. This spell can be cast on already debased coins, but if the value of any of the resultant duplicate coins is worth less than 1/32nd of the original value, the spell fails.

>>96713645
>ranks in appraise
lol
lmao

>>96704281
When the whole world is a few rounds away, prepping becomes close to impossible. At that point there needs to be trust between the players and the GM where the players tell them their plans ahead of time and the GM doesn't ruin them just because, otherwise nothing can get planned.

>>96714637
It's basically assumed that the players are going to be using this to attempt to scam merchants, who would and should theoretically have ranks in appraise since, you know, it's literally their job.

>>96714637
Hey, better than Forgery

>>96692336
This does way too much for a single 5th-level spell. The first through third effects together make for a good 5th level spell, adding the fourth effect would make it 6th level. But the Battle Cadence should be its own spell, and should be of at least 6th level.
If you're looking to combine all of these effects for the sake of action economy, I think you need to look more into things like metamagic (quicken) rods and the like. After all, Hindered Malice and Coordinated Host, together, is more or less the Prayer spell (which is 3rd level).

>>96717924
How would you compare it to Battletide?

>>96692238 (OP)
>It's commonly agreed that the main failing of 3.5 is there aren't enough spells
I-it is? There are people who want /new/ spells that aren't replacing existing spells? (I've got nothing. My spellwork is mostly rebalances / rewrites.)

Here. Have my replacement for Create Food and Water. This is a third level spell. It's a draft, I might rework it. Create Food and Water, is unavailable.

FETCH FOOD AND WATER
Conjuration (Creation)
Divine, Sylvan
Components: V, S
Unleashing Time: 2d4 x 15 minutes
Area: 1 mile
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Effect: Enough Food and water to sustain three humans or one horse/level for 24 hours
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Magic Resistance: No
You gather safe food and water from the surrounding area within 1-mile of yourself, excluding a 15-foot radius around your person.
Assuming sufficient edible food is available within range, it flies towards you and lands in a place you designate in an adjacent square (such as a basket, or in a bag, or what have you).
The foods gathered are suitable for consumption if properly prepared. It could be berries, edible leaves, edible nuts, or morsels of meat from a dead creature which would be safe to eat if cooked.
At the same time, (assuming sufficient moisture is available in the air) – it condenses clean water from the air into a containers of your choice.
You must also be in an area where food or water can be found; if none are available, the spell fetches what is available. The spell is blocked by any solid matter which would block the food or water from reaching you as it floats through the air.

>Subquestion - what's up with this book and why does it have four different covers
Best-selling spell compilation got many reprints. Not my favourite, and not one I usually include for players, it's generally a bottom-shelf book for me. Usually I prefer the earlier versions of spells it revises.

>>96719403
>Usually I prefer the earlier versions of spells it revises.
What are some standout examples in your opinion?

>>96719612
Fuck. Site ate my reply. Trying again.

Some spells got a nerf that didn't need one (Amanuensis can't copy spellbooks anymore, though it is now a cantrip; some got a needed buff (like Amplify - this is good); Some were randomly changed (Crawling Darkness is now a combat spell rather than a utility spell); Death Pact now gives you true res, and costs more gp but loses the xp component - I'm calling that a buff - A lot of deity specific spells were turned into general anycleric spells (Like Death Pact and Crawling Darkness) - and I am not a fan of that in general, I prefer less samey clerics, 3e homogenized them too much as-is; Death Armor scales all the way to lv20 instead of just to lv10, but now you pay 50gp per casting as opposed to just needing to have a 50gp onyx to use as a spell focus. That seems like a pointless nerf. 1d4+1/2lv damage counterattacking on close range melee damage is hardly worth 50gp per casting.

I'm not saying it's universally terrible, but I default to MoF first, and if a player wants a SC (Or Complete Arcane or Complete Mage) version of an option instead, they need to show it to me and get me to sign off on it, whereas the MoF version they can just assume is available.

On the Complete Arcane side - I like Spellpools. They're shit as a prestige class, I don't know wtf they were thinking there. But I like them as a guild perk tied to a magic item. But the Complete Arcane version is basically just a bland version of what was originally interesting and flavourful.

There's some more fun magic shit in Unapproachable East that got reprints in the 3.5 Generic Magic books, and similarly, I'll include the Unapproachable East version by default, if a player wants some genericised version from CA / CM / SC, they've gotta sell me on it.

>>96720035
I think the reason they dropped deity specific spells is because they were a cool idea in theory but ended up just either not existing or being turned into generic cleric spells in a lot of campaigns since fuckin what else do you do with a spell only available to worshippers of, say, Heironeus or Nerull if you're in fucking Eberron?

>>96720868
>what else do you do with a spell only available to worshippers of, say, Heironeus or Nerull if you're in fucking Eberron?
Use Eberron-Deity-Specific spells? Ideally, give each deity's clerics their own subclass / specialty priests. PF1 had Deity Specific spells for Golarion too. Personally I think the homogenized priest Cleric class was a bad idea. There's 0 reason that a Cleric of Ares should be 95% the same as a cleric of Pelor or a cleric of Loki or a cleric of Mask or a cleric of Tiamat. Makes no sense. The cleric spell access should be mostly domains and deity exclusives with a VERY small universal list; & each church should have ACFs. 3.5 dropped the ball on Clerics in general. Over-tuned, and too generic.

>>96720868
Adapt to the closes/most similar local deity. That's what my group does.

>>96720934
>The cleric spell access should be mostly domains
This is the better solution, I think.
Spells are associated with domains, and deities have domains, then the cleric's list is that pool of spells associated to the deity via its domains.
There'd be a difference between domain granted spells and domain gated divine spells (the actual spell list for the Cleric) if that makes sense.

>>96720868
Easiest fix is literally just making the "spontaneous domain" variant cleric the default.
Cleric of war? Why the fuck would you be casting healing spells? Cast greater magic weapon and play some fucking Doom music.
>>96720934
>The cleric spell access should be mostly domains
So you want to fix clerics feeling generic by making them largely unviable to play?

>>96722289
Oh fuck off. Clerics are one of the strongest classes, its take a lot to make them unviable

>>96722289
>unviable
Are you picturing unchanged domains? Because when I said "mostly domains", I mean each domain has more spells added to each domain, with cleric spells being a bunch of domains, somewhat similar to AD&D Spheres (but a cleric spell could be in multiple domains if needed). It would require all the divine spells be assigned to whatever domains make sense.

It would make for a significantly different class, but it would take a lot to go from best class to unviable.

>>96723148
Giving them a list of like 18 spells would certainly do that though.
"Clerics are currently overpowered, therefore all homebrew is valid" is a retarded take.
>>96724858
I misunderstood then. Sounds over-complicated though. A lot of 3e's strength was making making things more straightforward.

>>96725825
>Giving them a list of like 18 spells would certainly do that though.
Just removing the existing spell list with no compensation would technically fit the description, but is incredibly exaggerated from anything sensible.

>I misunderstood then. Sounds over-complicated though.
See Ardent's Mantle-based manifesting for an existing example of what the spell access would entail, presumably absent picking a limited number of Spells Known from among them. Though for the sake of party niche lock-in I'd keep the bread-and-butter recovery on a general Cleric list.

Anyojne here have ever read Nephandum or the attached bestiary?

It is a 3rd party 3.5 supplement made in italy

>>96727411
It's in italian, so no. The name makes me think about an enemy in world of darkness.

>>96725825
>Sounds over-complicated though.
Wouldn't be that hard. Clerics get the small universal Cleric list; + maybe 3 domain lists. Each domain list would be a thematically grouped list of spells, with at least 4 options per level. So clerics should average a minimum of 13 spells per level. Your deity would tell you which lists you get access to.

I've played Rolemaster, characters with multiple spell lists can be quite easy. It was even easier in RM than in 3.5, because each spell list fits on 1-2 pages with all of its spells - which meant you could print off the spell list page (or photocopy it), and then just check off the ones you know, and the spell text is right there. (There are many lists).

>>96725825
>>96728489
Having multiple lists would be a bit more complicated for new players but it would be easier to deal with at higher levels than having to sort through (by my count) 927 general-purpose cleric spells. Then again, if that had been the design from the start it'd probably end up just as bloated as the other core spell lists.

>session got cancelled because of scheduling
Scheduling must have divine ranks or some bullshit

>>96733493
Not even AO can deliver us from scheduling issues.

>>96703040
where can i find it?

>>96733594
Where can you find what? The d20 trinity book?
>>96700490

Thoughts on homebrewing non-Evil Undead centered the non-asshole Negative Energy effects like False Life?

>>96737913
You could easily use each of Negative Quasielemental planes to build its own undead civilization. Or several. Throw in some asshole necromancers, who may or may not be undead themselves, doing raids on some of them for bodies and body parts.

>>96737913
why not just repurpose deathless?

I think it's interesting that Solar Angels can use waves of exhaustion at will.
The attack is described as creating waves of negative energy to exhaust those it hits.

>>96737913
Why would you need to homebrew them? There are already a mountain of examples of non-evil undead

>>96737999
Quasielementals got turned into spawn-making Undead with the usual enemities, unfortunately.

>>96738221
Because Deathless are a retarded backflip to get shit past the "Undead are Ick so they must be Evil" writers.

>>96738228
Non-lethal hazard noted. Probably should have started with putting together a list of such effects...

>>96738497
I'm aware of Ghosts, Ghost Brutes, Spectral Savants, and Necropolitans. None of these interact much with Necromancy effects of not-particularly-horrible nature.

>>96738545
>Quasielementals got turned into spawn-making Undead with the usual enemities, unfortunately.
Who the fuck cares? They are infinite. Just plop a fortified city somewhere and make sure its warded. Githzerai literally live in the middle of Pandemonium.

>>96738545
>I'm aware of Ghosts, Ghost Brutes, Spectral Savants, and Necropolitans. None of these interact much with Necromancy effects of not-particularly-horrible nature.
Ghosts can do a shitton of scary things. But if you want playable, necropolitan spellstiched could be useful?

Give me a quick rundown on how to get the most out of iaijutsu focus shenanigans

>>96738545
Anon, Undead are not Evil because society says so, like Orcs, they are Evil because they are moved by the energy of entropy, and thus instinctually want to kill things. A necromancer may have good intentions, but he is bringing into the world creatures that will revert to mindless killing as soon as he loses control. It naturally takes as strong will to remain Neutral, nevermind Good, when your soul screams at you to kill things for no reason.

>>96745326
Orcs aren't evil because society says so, anon. Orcs are evil because Gruumsh is Pig-Nazi-Odin and his religion teaches them to genocide nonorcs, and they're basically a Gruumsh theocracy.

>>96745476
Yes anon, their society (same as religion) tells them to be evil and rewards evil actions. They are still capable of thinking of things that aren't directly evil, like cooperating or rearing children.

>>96745502
Nta, but something something god actually ASMRing evil in their minds, something something evil and good are physical-magical-divine particles rather then just concepts, something something hard to resist evil not because "where are my grandchildren" verbally pressing society but because it literally is in the blood and actually grows as you do more evil?

>>96742082
>Ghosts can do a shitton of scary things.
It is not that I want generic "scary things", it's that I want specific non-asshole Negative Energy effects as an Undead's "thing". I actually started with thinking about stuffing such into the Ghost special ability list for the "spirit of a loved one protecting/empowering you" trope, but distinct Undead allows use without other Ghost properties like the requirement for a relatively specific cause to linger, incorporeality, or the roll on reforming after destruction.

>>96745326
The point is that killing things is not the sole effect of Negative Energy, nor is it a universal compulsion or a universally Evil act. Ghosts and Ghost Brutes have specific leftovers from life, Spectral Savants and Necropolitans have no apparent problems behaving as normal people, a bunch just have really unsavory diets complete with cessation of animation if unfulfilled.

Given the carveout for Slaad and Tirbana reproduction, you can get away with quite a lot of dickishness in being required to use a non-lethal Negative Energy effect without an Always Evil Alignment.

Anyone have that picture of the iconic halfling rogue girl comparing the tattoo on her hip with a marking on a statue? It's infamous for looking like she's getting ready to use it as a giant stone dildo.

>>96746603
It's one of the first results for searching "Lidda 3.5"

>>96746870
fucking stupid picture

I love it

>>96692238 (OP)

I like my Necromancers to have the means to raise some undead minions spontaneously and early on, even if they aren't permanent:

Cadaverous Animation

Necromancy (Death)
Level: Cleric 1, Sorcerer/Wizard 1
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close (25ft + 5ft/Level)
Target: Cadaver
Duration: 1 Round/Level
Saving Throw: None
SR: None

The target cadaver immediately comes to life as a Zombie or a Skeleton under the control of the caster and does its bidding until the time for it is up or when it’s destroyed. If destroyed while animated, you cannot use this spell to reanimate it with Cadaverous Animation. The corpse targeted must have no more than twice the amount of HD the caster has for the spell to be strong enough. Furthermore, cadavers animated this way are defiled, and Raise Dead cannot be used to bring them back to life.

I'll post a few more of my custom spells in the next few posts. Take them or leave them.

1/?

>>96747141

I made this spell because I also made a Harm domain alongside the Healing Domain to counter one-another.

Degenerate

Necromancy (Harm)
Level: Cleric 7, Harm 7
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action [Regenerate gets this treatment, too. Used to be 3 Full Actions]
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude Halves
SR: Yes.

Upon touching a living creature, the living creature must make a Fortitude Save or else they’ll take 4d8 + 1/level Damage (Max +35), and they lose a single but significant non-vital limb such as an arm or leg on a human. If the creature fails their Fortitude Save by 5 or more, then a vital limb will rot off, such as the head for most creatures. Creatures that can Regenerate can’t reattach the severed limb, but they can still grow it back over its listed course of time. If the Fortitude Save was successful, it deals only half the damage and degenerates no limbs.
If cast on an Undead or creature treated like one, it will instead be treated as a Regenerate spell. Likewise, Regenerate can affect Undead like it were Degenerate, though there’s no guarantee that an undead would have any vital parts to “rot” off.

2/?

>>96747166

In my games I separate Spells and Psionics and so spells and powers affect others separately. Some odd tactics can be used to bypass certain limitations. Hence, the spell below to get around those immune to magic, but not necessarily to psionics:

Psionic Conversion

Transmutation
Level: Cleric 4, Psionics 4, Sorcerer/Wizard 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 10 Minutes
Range: Self
Target: Self
Duration: Permanent until discharged
Saving Throw: Will (Harmless)
SR: Yes (Harmless).

Turn a spell that you have ready into a Psionic Power. This enables the Spell to ignore all effects that would affect Spells, and instead makes it affected by effects that would affect Psionics. This means that a spell can ignore SR, but is now susceptible to PR instead. That spell slot won’t come back until after that now-Power has been manifested. It also does the same thing with any Psionic Powers you may have to be used as a Spell of equal level. If done though, the Power Points you spent on that Power-to-become-a-Spell won’t return until after the now-Spell has been cast.

>>96747173

I've also returned a few spells from D&D 3.0 into 3.X. There may be some redundancy, but I did a lot of legwork:

Change Self
(Player's Handbook 3.0)

Illusion (Glamour)
Level: Wizard 1, Sorcerer 1, Slayer of Domiel 1, Thayan Slaver 1, Spellthief 1, Vassal of Bahamut 2,
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 10 minutes/level (D)

You make yourself-including clothing, armor, weapons, and equipment-look different. You can seem 1 foot shorter or taller, thin, fat, or in between. You cannot change your body type. For example, a human caster could look human, humanoid, or like any other generally human-shaped bipedal creature. Otherwise, the extent of the apparent change is up to you. You could add or obscure a minor feature, such as a mole or a beard, or look like an entirely different person. The spell does not provide the abilities or mannerisms of the chosen form. It does alter the perceived tactile (touch) or audible (sound) properties of you or your equipment. A battleaxe made to look like a dagger still functions as a battleaxe.
If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on the Disguise check.
Note: Creatures get Will saves to recognize the glamer as an illusion if they interact with it (such as by touching you and having that not match what they see, in the case of this spell).

>>96747185

Emotion
Player’s Handbook 3.0, p. 199

Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Bard 3, Sorcerer 3, Wizard 3, Charm (DD) 4, Charm (FRCS) 4,
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: All living creatures within a 15-ft. radius
Duration: Concentration
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes
This spell arouses a single emotion of your choice in the subjects. You can choose any one of the following versions:
Despair: The enchanted creatures suffer a -2 morale penalty to saving throws, attack rolls, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls. Emotion (despair) dispels emotion (hope).
Fear: The enchanted creatures flee from you whenever they are in sight of you. Emotion (fear) dispels emotion (rage).
Friendship: The enchanted creatures react more positively toward others. Their attitude on the Influencing NPC Attitude Table (see NPC Attitudes in the Dungeon Master's Guide) shifts to the next more favorable reaction (hostile to unfriendly, unfriendly to indifferent, indifferent to friendly, or friendly to helpful). Creatures involved in combat, however, continue to fight back normally. Emotion (friendship) dispels emotion (hate).

Continued, spell is longer than 2000 characters.

1/2

>>96747196
Hate: The enchanted creatures react more negatively toward others. Their attitude on the Influencing NPC Attitude Table (see NPC Attitudes in the Dungeon Master's Guide) shifts to the next less favorable reaction (helpful to friendly, friendly to indifferent, indifferent to unfriendly, or unfriendly to hostile). Emotion (hate) dispels emotion (friendship).
Hope: The enchanted creatures gain a +2 morale bonus to saving throws, attack rolls, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls. Emotion (hope) dispels emotion (despair).
Rage: The enchanted creatures gain a +2 morale bonus to Strength and Constitution scores, a +1 morale bonus on Will saves, and a -1 penalty to AC. They are compelled to fight heedless of danger. Emotion (rage) does not stack with barbarian rage or with itself. Emotion (rage) dispels emotion (fear).

2/2

I'll also post a custom psionic power in my next post, though it's basically just Evard's Black Tentacles in Psionics form.

>>96747202

Ectoplasmic Tendrils

Metacreativity
Level: Psion/Wilder 4th
Display: Material and Visual
Manifesting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Medium (100ft +10ft/Level)
Area: 20ft-Radius Spread
Duration: 1 Round/Level
Saving Throws: None
Power Resistance: No
Power Points: 9

Ectoplasmic goo erupts into existence in the area you targeted, grasping and grabbing at any creature unfortunate enough to be on top of it.
Every creature in the area of the power must make a Grapple check opposed by the Grapple check of the Tendrils. The Tendrils are treated as a Large creature with a Strength of 19 and with an Attack Bonus equal to the manifester’s BPB. The tendrils are immune to all damage.
Once the tendrils grapple an opponent and on your turn, the Tendrils will deal 1d6 + 4 Bludgeoning Damage to them. The tendrils continue crushing until the power ends.
Should new creatures enter, the tendrils will try and grapple and crush them all the same.
Augment: For every 2 additional Power Points you spend, increase the effective size increment of the Tendrils by +1 more with regards to Grapple bonuses (2 more is Huge, 4 more is Gargantuan, 6 more is Colossal)
Augment: For 2 Additional Power Points, the Tendrils ignore you and your allies.
Augment: For every 2 additional Power Points you spend, the damage die increases by +1 increment (1d6 becomes 1d8 becomes 1d10 becomes 2d6 becomes 2d8 etc).
Augment: For every 1 additional Power Point you spend, the effective Strength Score of the Tendrils increases by +2.

>>96747210

I forgot to mention:

BPB = Base Psionic Bonus. I took a lot of inspiration from the Trailblazer 3rd party book with their unification of the Magic using classes and assigned each class with a Base Psionic Bonus to address a similar disconnect between Psionic Classes and Non-Psionic Classes. Basically, BPB is (Effective) Manifester Level and vice versa.

>>96745863
But what if they didn't have an evil god ASMRing in their minds? What if dwaves stopped having a Good good whispering in theirs? What if that Good god was whispering in the minds of orcs?
>>96745885
>killing things is not the sole effect of Negative Energy
Alright, then what nondestructive use can you logically think of for energized entropy?
>Given the carveout for Slaad and Tirbana reproduction
But it's not about reproduction. A mindless zombie cannot reproduce nor can it comprehend the world, yet it is still invariably evil and seeks out things to kill things for no benefit to itself, with no self conservation, unless commanded.

>>96747634
>But what if they didn't have an evil god ASMRing in their minds? What if dwaves stopped having a Good good whispering in theirs? What if that Good god was whispering in the minds of orcs?
This experiment has actually been run in both the Ravenloft and Dark Sun settings. The answer? The vast majority of people end up evil as shit instead of just some of them.
I don't know why the evil gods even bother. They can just sit back an let the entropy of the universe do all the work grinding down morality and spend more of their time gaming.

>>96747634
>Alright, then what nondestructive use can you logically think of for energized entropy?
To repeat myself, because apparently your brain is stuck in the retardation of the handful of writers who decided to make Undead Evil because ick:
>>96737913
>like False Life?

>But it's not about reproduction.
It establishes that killing literally everyone in a settlement for continued existence is not Evil.

>A mindless zombie ... is still invariably evil
And Ghosts, Ghost Brutes, Necropolitans, and Spectral Savants are not. Again, your brain appears to be stuck in the retardation of a handful of writers who decided to make Undead Evil because ick, who pointedly were not the sole opinion to make it into the text describing the matters.

>>96745502
You said
>>96745326
>"because society says so".
Which is about a society judging them, for reasons that aren't as concrete as 'their own survival'.

>"Because their society makes them do evil nobody else can coexist with"
Is something else entirely. It's actively doing evil, not being declared evil.

Yes they can do some nonevil things like raising their own children. It's still more than just judgment, it's evil in a compelled to kill you sense, even if the compulsion isn't magical. Much closer to the undead example you're describing than you're making it out to be.

>>96747634
>What if a good god whispered in the minds of orcs.
Ondonti have existed since ~1991. They're not evil.

Hey guys, I've been trying to think of ways to expand my 3.5 YouTube channel. I wanted to release some stuff on DriveThru RPG (I would do Patreon but I don't think I could keep up with releasing a new thing every month consistently so it would feel unfair). I was trying to think of what stuff people would like. I had a lot of ideas:
>epic level modules, but no one really uses them, I just thought of it because I was in a module-based game that ran til level 25 and then we ran out of adventures cause there was nothing in the 25 to 29 range.
>more modules in general, akin to the old ones they used to release, but with larger dungeons and more in-depth ones, or even some carefully-balanced "race against time" adventures
>"fixed" prestige classes for all the ones out there that have potential but are horribly structured
>homebrew monsters

The thing is that anything to do with modules, would get strangled by OGL requirements, cause you can't access all the cool content that is the big draw of 3.5. So no hexblades, unless they are called witchknights or something and all the class abilities are written out with changed names. Or if I wanna use a couple leechwalkers I gotta call em "leechform beasts" or something dumb.

And with prestige classes it's even worse. That would probably have to be a patreon thing for the sake of plausible deniability...

So basically my question would be, is there any 3.5e related content you would part with a few bucks for? I feel like anyone still running this system doesn't care for adventures anymore.

Spell ideas

Forget: Subject loses a specific memory, vagueness is allowed if it can be logically concluded upon (can choose a prepared spell)
Alter memories: Alter a subject’s memories, erasing specific ones, replacing them or creating new ones altogether
Recall: Gain total recall of all subject’s memories

See darkness: Illusion version of Darkness; targets subjects instead. Subjects affected see illusory darkness
Shadow trick [illusion] (cantrip): Create shadows to trick foes. Combine with ghost sound for spooky illusions (cast combine the effects when casting either, costs both spell slots but saves casting time)
Spell steal: Touch attack that steals prepared spells. Sort of like a pick pocket where it’s random but can be directed if you want to steal a certain spell. Can be used undetected if it passes. Better versions of this spell can store the stolen spell to use. Could maybe make a ranged version.
Fire bolt [evocation] (cantrip): Create a tiny controllable mote of fire that can be used to light or ignite. Can be used offensively, creating a tiny explosion at a target, dealing 1 damage
>>96692587
Perfect spell dood

Does anyone remember which 3rd party book it was that had a whole bunch of symbiotes in it? I can remember one of them replaced your eyes, one of them replaced your blood, one of them replaced your heart, etc. I can't for the life of me find what book this was.

>>96749425
For forget it can’t be something with basal function (forget to breathe), something with subconscious muscle memory (forget how to walk) or morality (forget that you are lawful good). You can permanently erase a day’s worth of memories per level (so you could erase over a week’s worth of memory) but not huge spans of time unless you risk the memory coming back. You can erase connections (forget that person is your sister) but not permanently if the connection spans more than a day per level. Temporary memory loss lasts a day per level.

>>96749331
I'm at the point in my gaming career where for me it's mostly fuel for my own 3.x homebrewing.

I'd shell out for 3.x compatible expansion subsystems that look good, or expand content for subsystems I use. But I expect that's a niche interest. I dunno what your other options might be. There's a ton of character content for 3.5 already. I don't know that people are looking for feat and PrC rewrites.

Maybe drop-in towns with factions and characters would be useful, or drop-in dungeons, or drop in guild halls or something. How you'd build characters with access to the non OGL stuff people are using, I dunno though, and OGL only would be a big limiter.

You could make your own 3.x compatible heartbreaker that includes your rewrite ideas, and then make adventure content for that, and reference your rewrites rather than the stuff that inspired it, and maybe make a non OGL-based conversion guide?

Big project, of course. But you could build it out over time, do like PsiWars for GURPS, and have the site public with your patreon for people who want to influence the development direction or some shit.

That's what I have for ideas. I dunno if any of those are up your alley.

Maybe people here would be interested on providing feedback for your 3.x retro lone / heartbreaker. If you make it a retroclone, you could opt not to use the OGL at all and make your game original enough to not need it, while still close enough to be compatible, hackmaster style.

>>96749425
Hoodwink [enchantment] (cantrip): Subject (+1 subject per level) forgets the last 6 seconds + 6 seconds per level.
Brainwash: Combines Recall with Alter Memories, allowing complete memory rewriting.

>>96749489
Maybe for multiple subjects each additional one adds +3 to the Will Save DC. Basically you can use it to cause a tiny memory lapse

>>96749493
Obviously a Bard spell. It can be used if he messes up a performance, to redo a risky Bluff, or immediately after initiating a surprise attack for a double surprise

Wisp (cantrip): Closing your eyes summons forth a flying wisp that you can see and control. Range is 300 ft. + 300ft. per level

Aqua blast: Rapidly displaces 10 cubic feet per level of water or similar liquid, pushing aside and dealing 1d6+2per level damage to all creatures hit by their weight in water

Dread: Gain +4 to Intimidation. Enemies get -2 when preforming Grapple checks on you, and -4 on all rolls against fear based effects you preform. Causes people to fear and avoid you: you appear menacingly.

Splint: Mending, but for creatures. Heals broken bones and reattaches limbs. Does no healing, but stops any bleeding.

>>96747687
>the retardation of the handful of writers who decided to make Undead Evil
If they made mindless undead Always Evil that's how the setting works, and it's not particularly retarded imo so i defend the decision. If you want your setting to make it so things moved by Negative Energy don't instinctually act towards destruction evil, that's fine. But then you have to wonder what's the real difference with Positive Energy.
Or do you find yourself offended by the fact that Positive Energy only heals as well?
>Ghosts, Ghost Brutes, Necropolitans, and Spectral Savants are not
Because they have a will and thus can choose their alignment, but the basic will of an undead is to be Evil.
>>96747845
I used words maybe to memey, but it meant "because their society promotes and rewards evil"

>>96749331
>So basically my question would be, is there any 3.5e related content you would part with a few bucks for?
As a DM, collections of ready to use, well thought places and organizations. Like a set of at least 5 taverns with maps, NPCs, menus, potential events/quirks/uniqueness and loot for example.
Or a set of magical shops with well thought-out but defeatable contingencies against thieves or murder hobbos.
Same with temples and other common places NPCs go.
Fleshed out factions with HQs and intricate/clever inner workings. I'd want a different profile for each rank, a map of the HQ, the loot in there etc etc.
Something that has actual work done behind it instead of a compilation of random ideas.

If I had the time I would flesh out an entire city like that and reuse its parts indefinitely.

>>96749619
>If they made mindless undead Always Evil that's how the setting works
Only the later writers in charge of SOME of the material. If you can find a 3.0 copy of the Monster Manual, you'll find that the Skeleton and Zombie are Always Neutral like Mindless creatures of any other Type.

>If you want your setting to make it so things moved by Negative Energy don't instinctually act towards destruction evil
Them acting towards Evil breaks the standard cosmology because there's two Transitive Planes and the Prime Material between the Negative Energy Plane and Lower Planes. It also rips away a massive chunk of life-death balancing from the Druid by declaring related violations of the Natural Order Evil when said Natural Order is one of incredibly few explicitly big-N go-to-Outlands Neutral causes; with Undead made a Good/Evil matter, Lawful or Chaotic Druids can be barred from stopping them by their Alignment restriction.

>Or do you find yourself offended by the fact that Positive Energy only heals as well?
But it doesn't, it also causes people to explode if you apply too much and horribly mutate if applied out of tune, to say nothing of the Quasielemental effects. Nor does Negative Energy only harm, such as my original example of False Life that grants temporary hit points explicitly through the power of unlife with negligible if any side effects to living targets.

>Because they have a will and thus can choose their alignment, but the basic will of an undead is to be Evil.
No, the basic will of an Undead varies according to its kind, the Skirr is just a big dumb predator complete with actually needing to eat what it hunts with fall damage and a functional sense of taste that happens to be Undead. There is no deeper reason for it being Evil than "Undead bad is the trope", and as mentioned above this causes ridiculous knock-on effects.

>>96747634
>What if dwaves stopped having a Good good whispering in theirs?
Duergar.

>>96749463
>Maybe people here would be interested on providing feedback for your 3.x retro lone / heartbreaker.
Would people be interested in a 3.5e clone with
>4e style math (balanced around 1/2 level to avoid "fractional drift")
>Armor Class increasing with level
>alternate bonus stacking (example, a stat can only be buffed by one magical effect, and one extraordinary effect) to avoid the "bonus type buffet"
>every 3.5e feat and prestige class rewritten to be viable
>add dex to damage feat
>add ranged power attack feat
>other fixes

Or would they rather just see a load of "fixed" 3.5e features (like ambush feats being rebalanced to actually be worth taking)?

>>96749463
>I'd shell out for 3.x compatible expansion subsystems that look good
Such as psionic and incarnum?
I definitely want to expand on rune magic and maybe even crystal magic. Alchemy and herbalism as well. I feel like alchemy is severely underrated and I would love to make a viable alchemist class that isn't just Pathfinder's solution of "lol they cast spells and throw bombs" but actually interact with the crafting system.

>>96753540

The folks who got into 3.X have some level of sunken cost fallacy, so it's best to make sure that whatever "fixes" you do are compatible with the official splats. If they aren't, then you gotta make your own rewrites to the splats to accommodate it.

>>96753802
I'm the same way. I have every single splatbook sitting on a shelf. Invalidating all that material would suck. But at the same time a huge amount of that material is useless.

I really don't know what to do. I think 3.5e is so great. I love tactical feats. I love skill tricks and ambush feats and all the little stuff that the game has to offer. It just needs to be .. fixed. And I don't know the best way to do that.

>>96754267

I want to see your list of what it is about them that need fixing. What is it about the execution of tactical feats that need to be changed? What about with skill tricks? Ambush feats? Bullet point them. If you do that in this thread, anon, I will read them.

>>96754308
Tactical Feats
>a lot of them take several rounds to "set up" which already makes them worse than giga-power-attack one-shotting
>rely on a specific set of circumstances, including oftentimes giving up attacking
>usually the bonuses just aren't worth
>example: Einhander, you need to give up Power Attacking effectively, or two-weapon fighting, to get a +2 to AC you could have gotten from Two Weapon Defense, tumble ranks, and fighting defensively anyway.
>also Einhander: +2 on Tumble checks after you hit an enemy. Why are you doing that? Just hit him until he's dead. Or withdraw. If you need that measly +2 you're not a viable Tumble user anyway
>also Einhander: hit an enemy twice, and you get a free action feint attempt with sleight of hand.
None of these bonuses are very good, even taken together, and they don't synergize at all.
There's probably a better example for my initial point, but I don't want to clog up the post too much.

Ambush Feats
>gated behind specific levels of sneak attack, meaning certain levels, at which point a lot of such status conditions are less relevant
>also require you to give up ALL your sneak attack except 1d6, making them almost totally worthless
They're easier to fix by specifying you only give up 1d6 or maybe 2d6 of your sneak attack, for that condition.

>>96754629

I think we are in agreement on our sorrows of 3.X. We both see a lot of options that, while neat on paper, don't compete with the others. The power disparity of 3.X can very well be night & day, too.

What about Skill Tricks, though?

>>96753540
I would not, no. I would specifically want a high degree of compatibility with the good stuff from 3.x and PF1. It would be a "What if PF1 had much better quality control and more carefully considered revisions, maybe also software style updates and bugfixes rather than paper + errata". Changing the whole math scaling would defeat the purpose.

>>96753557
>such as psionics and incarnum
No no those are more different class frameworks. I meant like:
Updating the base mass combat system (probably open mass combat by mongoose).
Ship to ship combat.
Elections.
Debates.
Trials.
A more fleshed out set of example builds and an update of the construction system of Strongholds & Dynasties, working in more magical options inspired by SBG.
Etc.

Stuff that expands the gameplay and does a good job of it.

But, drop-in towns and dungeons for a more basic 3.x retroclone thing would be alright too.

>>96753557
Redone alchemy and herbalism could be good. And better considered spell level assignment rules maybe, and artifice (golem building), and the like as well. Theres the "occult lore" book by Lemmbridge that expands on this stuff a bit, but it's implementation leaves much to be desired too, and deep magic for PF1 is okay but incomplete.

But yeah. Lots of subsystems could use an overhaul.

Even magic items. Why is there no dice rolling involved? Why does every magic item built come out exactly how you wanted it? (I houserule that one in my homebrew d20 system). But mine is a bit of a bigger departure from 3.5 in tone and gameplay loop - for starters it's point based rather than class based, and lacks combat XP and WBL.

I imagine people would appreciate something that's a bit less of a dramatic change. And I'm always happy about more good 3.x material I can use in my own games.

>>96753802
Not even. Sunk cost fallacy is when you don't like something but you're too afraid of the coat to start over. 3.X has lots of content I like, just not everything. I'm looking for new 3.X d20 parts I like to mix in with my other 3.X d20 parts.

>>96753540
But to answer your question, I'm looking for improved compatible parts. Some people might want a whole system to run, but that's not me. You could use ORC, or CC, or some custom license. And then as you build more content you can reference stuff in the license you want. If you do use OGL, you could make OGL replacements for non OGL WotC stuff, but just reference OGL stuff from whomever directly.

I don't think a new ruleset would appeal to strict 3.5 (or Paizo PF1) purists, but there are some of us who mix and match 3.X d20 stuff we like from different sources. And if your content is sufficiently compatible, locations and NPCs and Factions and shit are useful to everyone.

>>96755180
>>96755336
These are both me. I just had additional thoughts.

>>96753540
>>96755344 again
Anyways - I was just thinking you might get benefit from a 3e version of the LL idea. Make your own revised core to match your personal vision of what it should have been, and gradually build on it to the wants of your audience.

I know body part loss is rarely relevant, but do you think a Skin of the Troll would/should be able to regrow body parts lost before putting it on? like say when using it for out of combat healing after a fight was over.
>Skin of the Troll
>Price (Item Level): 61,000 gp (18th)
>Body Slot: —
>Caster Level: 17th
>Aura: Strong; (DC 23) conjuration
>Activation: —
>Weight: 2 lb.
>Your body appears rough, cracked, and covered with blemishes as long as you wear this skin.
>This skin heals you of 5 points of damage per minute. This benefit is not effective against damage from starvation, thirst, or suffocation.
The skin also regrows lost portions of your body and allows you to reattach severed limbs.
>If you don’t have a Constitution score, a skin of the troll has no effect on you.
>Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, regenerate or true metabolism (EPH 124).

>>96756668
>I know body part loss is rarely relevant, but do you think a Skin of the Troll would/should be able to regrow body parts lost before putting it on?
Given the ring doesn't have such an exclusion and it's the point of the spell, I don't see why not.

>Body Slot: —
*checks MIC*
...Oh, so they aren't treated as a special item slot by the book. I still want to shove Soulmelds in the space.

>>96756948
>Given the ring doesn't have such an exclusion
it acually does only heal damage incured while wearing it
>Regeneration: This white gold ring continually allows a living wearer to heal 1 point of damage per level every hour rather than every day.
>(This ability cannot be aided by the Heal skill.) Non lethal damage heals at a rate of 1 point of damage per level every 5 minutes. If the wearer loses a limb, an organ, or any other body part while wearing this ring, the ring regenerates it as the spell. In either case, only damage taken while wearing the ring is regenerated.
>Strong conjuration; CL 15th; Forge Ring, regenerate; Price
>90,000 gp.
So it would be a clear improvement over the Ring, but it is already much better than the ring by default what with it healing actual damage a lot faster while being cheaper, while also not taking away a ring slot.

what would be an appropriate level for a party of monks to have them feel clearly different from one another? 3, 4 or 5?

>>96761169
if they use alternative fighting styles 4 is a good place to say they are relevantly different

>>96755009
>What about Skill Tricks, though?
AYRT here
I think they were the best thing they added to the game in late development and it's a tragedy they were added so late. So much potential (especially cause a lot of existing feats oughta just be skill tricks).

>>96755180
>Updating the base mass combat system (probably open mass combat by mongoose).
>Ship to ship combat.
>Elections.
>Debates.
>Trials.
Now this has potential. Pathfinder added a decent (I thought) mass battle system for 3.X. But the rest could use some work.

>It would be a "What if PF1 had much better quality control and more carefully considered revisions, maybe also software style updates and bugfixes rather than paper + errata". Changing the whole math scaling would defeat the purpose.
What kind of stuff would you like to see fixed? Pathfinder changed too much IMHO.

>>96755336
>Why is there no dice rolling involved? Why does every magic item built come out exactly how you wanted it? (I houserule that one in my homebrew d20 system). But mine is a bit of a bigger departure from 3.5 in tone and gameplay loop - for starters it's point based rather than class based, and lacks combat XP and WBL.
I think this could be implemented with a feat that lets you "bat out of your league" with magic item creation, making it tempting to try. Possibly reduced XP costs as well, if you take a risk of getting a weird cursed item, or just a downside on what you made.
>Redone alchemy and herbalism could be good.
I've been working on an alchemy system / alchemist class that is compatible with the PHB alchemy rules. Maybe that'll be something I can publish soon.

>If you do use OGL, you could make OGL replacements for non OGL WotC stuff, but just reference OGL stuff from whomever directly.
Do you think just renaming stuff and saying "this room has two Face Eaters from page 38 of Creature Compendium IV" and people will be able to deduce I'm talking about Defacers from Monster Manual IV, will be enough?

>>96755886
>Anyways - I was just thinking you might get benefit from a 3e version of the LL idea. Make your own revised core to match your personal vision of what it should have been, and gradually build on it to the wants of your audience.
LL like Labyrinth Lord or LL like Legends and Labyrinths or whatever The Alexandrian made?

>>96755336
>I don't think a new ruleset would appeal to strict 3.5 (or Paizo PF1) purists, but there are some of us who mix and match 3.X d20 stuff we like from different sources. And if your content is sufficiently compatible, locations and NPCs and Factions and shit are useful to everyone.
So stuff like those mini-factions and mini-dungeons they put in a lot of the later 3.5e books like Complete Scoundrel having those hideout maps and stuff, would be good? I definitely could do that.
I have talked a lot about doing a 3.5e hexcrawl so having little mini-dungeons people could slot into a hexcrawl they were making, might be nice.

>>96763670

Feel free to tell me more about the Skill Tricks, including listing the feats you think should have been Skill Tricks.

In case it matters, not only am I not trans, but while I do enjoy Skill Tricks, I do wish they were rephrased to the point where it looks like it's less of a "You can't do wall kicks up to the top of a building unless you have this Skill Trick" or being more of a "The DM cannot make your attempt at wall-kicking up to the top of the building more difficult for you on top of the Climb check's usual difficulty". So, I am looking for other opinions on Skill Tricks is what I'm trying to get at, and I'm not bumping this for no reason.

>>96763761
?
Well I agree with you there. But I also don't necessarily mind the pre-templating abilities in that way. I actually like 3.5's skill system, in having set DCs for as many things as possible, it makes the game feel more like a real set of rules, and not like 5e where I swear to god, both as a DM and player, I have seen a DM ask for a skill check, then see the player roll a 7, then shrug and let it succeed anyway, just maybe not quite as well. Whereas 3.5 has more actual rules for that sort of thing. I like that.

As for feats I think should be skill tricks:
>Quick Draw
>Eschew Materials
>a bunch of those minor skill feats from splatbooks
Basically any time you see a feat and think "man that's lame" I feel like it could have been a skill trick. But desu it could just be a "half-feat" as well.

>>96763796

Pre-templating abilities do have their place, but only so long as it doesn't become a crutch or a hinderance.

My guess is you'll make Quick Draw a Sleight of Hand skill trick, Eschew Materials a Spellcraft skill trick, and what about Run? Run is very situational and gives too little of a bonus to really measure up to the other feats. Plus, there's no official skill that covers running on an athletic scale.

>>96763796
>>96764410
Personally, I'd say Skill Tricks should have been done like challenges in True 20 or straight up normal skill checks. Quick Draw? Skill check. Eschew Materials? Spellcraft challenge with DC set by the spell used and so on.

Challenges basically allowed to do the shit that feats allow to do, but just with penalty to your skill. So if you are balancing on a rope you can take additional penalty to the skill to move at full speed and/or retain dodge bonuses. And so on.

Doing something like this:

Skill
Check DCs
Challenges -5/-10/-15/20

And you can buy out a Challenge for 1/2/3/4 points, similar to Skill Tricks. A Sailor can just buy out a penalty for acting normally on slick surfaces or in high winds and roll unmodified skill. Acrobat can easily move over ropes or jump without a running start and so on.
_______________________________________

As for Run - it probably does need a skill.

>>96764472

It's a clean and elegant way to do it, though 3.X was fond of multiples of 4 rather than multiples of 5, the idea is still there. 3.X is already established to have a lot of different parts to character creation and Skill Tricks are another facet you can apply to make it so. It's less clean, but the sheer amount of stuff to customize a character with is part of its draw, even if a good number of the options are way behind or ahead in power disparity compared to others to the point of being night and day.

For my own homebrew, I have a broad Athletics skill for utilizing a variety of physical exertions alongside Climb, Jump, and Swim, plus turning Tumble into Acrobatics to also encompass Balance works for me.

Do you think you can provide me with an example of such a Skill Trick converted into the True 20 way of resolution so that I can get a clearer idea of what's what?

>>96764585
Not exactly Skill Trick. Skill Tricks are one per encounter. Challenges in True 20 can be attempted as much as you want as long as you are willing to eat the penalty.
The most obvious example is Balance skill that already has such a thing baked in. If we somewhat streamline it we get something like this:

[Balance]

Narrow surfaces:
Going over a surface slightly wider than your foot DC 5
Going over surface that is exactly as wide as you foot DC 10
Going over thick ropes or thin planks around half your foot wide DC 15
Going over extremely narrow objects less than a finger wide DC 20
Going over strings or single hairs DC 30

Difficult surfaces:
Lose gravel or sand DC 5
Uneven flagstone, hewn stone DC 10
Objects that normally can't support your weight (enemy sword, thin branches) DC 30
Liquids and clouds DC 50

[Balance challenges]

---Skill -5---
Slippery ( somewhat wet)
Obstructed
Sloped or angled
Retain Dexterity and Dodge bonuses to AC while balancing

---Skill -10---
Highly slippery (covered in ice or water)
Heavily sloped or angled
Move at normal speed while balancing

---Skill -20---
Extremely slippery (greased)

At skill ranks 5, 10 and 20 you can buyout corresponding Challenges at the cost of 1, 2 of 4 skill points. Bought out Challenges no longer apply a skill penalty.

>>96755344 again. This won't all fit in 2k chars. 1/X

>>96763681
LL like Labyrinth Lord. Where they start putting out their own content, and their core rules being basically the same as BX, just allows fans to mix and match LL stuff with AD&D and BECMI. If you make your own cross compatible 3.x Corebook (but with whatever fixes you think are valuable (possibly under a different license), you can push out supplements and adventures compatible with your base, but your customers don't need to be playing your system. They could be running 3.5. Or 3.0. Or PF1. Or Arcana Evolved. Or whatever. You get the idea. Don't include references to WotC non OGL stuff, but you could reference the OGL stuff. Not L&L. That was a 1-off disaster. Obscure crowdfunding site, expected the core rules to be profitable before release with no plans to expand it and he didn't have any art yet for the crowdfunding campaign - he did everything wrong. Don't copy him. Even if it's 3.5 based, copy people who actually made money. *Personally* I would look not to focus on published books. Put out your rules for free on a d20pfsrd or AoN type site, blog your process, and then launch a patreon and run a discord for early access and development influence and discussion to see what people want (with a patron only discord). *That* I would pay a couple bucks a month for. But basically I'd say combine the business models of Labyrinth Lord and Psi Wars.

The Item Heward's Fortifying Bedroll from Complete Mage lets the user get all the benefits of a long rest in 1 hour of sleep, but it can only be used once every 48 hours.

Anyone know a way to get a similar benefit daily?

>>96770956
Buy multiple, preferably 48 total.

>>96771002
sadly the the makers considered that
>After using Reward's fortifying bedroll, you can't gain the same benefit again (either from the same or a different item) until 48 hours have passed.

>>96770956
Ring of sustenance. It lets you get the effect of 8 hours of sleep in only 2 hours. Prepare your full spell slot 2-3 times a day.

Are there "condensed" classes like the Dread Necromancer representing the other schools of magic? I don't think I've run across any, but it's not the worst idea for an alternative to school specialization, especially for a Conjurer.

>>96771644
Warmage from Complete Arcane and Beguiler from Player's Handbook II use the same for Evocation and an Illusion/Enchantment split, respectively.

>>96771677
Checked. In my head, I wrote off the Beguiler for some reason. Warmage I outright forgot about. You'd think Conjuration and Transmutation would be the big ones after DN?

>>96771719
They have dedicated prestige classes instead, Malconvoker and Master of Many Forms respectively.

>>96771719
>You'd think Conjuration and Transmutation would be the big ones after DN?
My assumption is that the writers thought those two schools so varied as to defeat the point of a single-school specialist. It'd be really damned good for the Cleric's nominal primary role with all the fiddly conditionals that make Spells Known suffer trying it, but unfortunately that design space was claimed by the Miniature's Handbook Healer that for some incomprehensible reason still uses Cleric-style full-list prep despite having theirs gutted all the way down to Designated Healbot that led to so many issues with Cleric play-rates in the TSR days... In the same book as another printing of Warmage that already had full-list casting. And the Favored Soul, chief sufferer of the aforementioned Spells Known shortage.

>>96755344 responding 2/6 - Sorry about the delay between posts. Parenting shit came up.

>>96763670
> Pathfinder mass battle system for 3.X.
> The rest could use some work.
I would start from the Mongoose ones I think. IIRC they're are all OGC, and tend to be a bit less abstracted than the PF ones. That said, I haven't used either company's mass combat rules - but I know Mongoose's got a few rounds of revision. But even if they're not OGC or you want a different license, remember: You can't copyright game procedures, only phrasing and presentation. That said, the books I would look for subsystems are mostly Mongoose Games Designer's Companion, and the Atlas games books. For Hexcrawling, The Alexandrian has a decent 3.5 hexcrawling procedure. If you want wilderness hazards and shit, There are the two books from 2003 AEG's Wilds and FFG's Wildscape.

>>96763670
>>96755344 responding 3/6
> What would you like to see fixed?
In some cases, he'd need to change things just to be different. Particularly when redoing non-OGL stuff. But a lot of it is about curating. If some option is at the bottom of everyone's feat lists or doesn't rank in the guides, and not because the guide is older than the option - it needs to be rewritten to be viable. Really shit feats could be merged if they can't be redesigned to be worth taking, etc. In the general system there's a lot of stuff I'd change. I'm already making the game I wish 3.5 was though, and it's more different from 3.5 than PF1 was. When the time comes I am hoping to sell people on my original game system, and the fact that I will include rough conversion guides for 3.0/3.5/PF1/5e/5.5e/PF2 will be a bonus, not the main goal. But the Youtube anon is aiming for more general 3.5 appeal with the stuff he makes, so it would be a bad idea for him to abandon too many of its core design ideas. I'd definitely simplify the prereq system though. It's needlessly bloated and trips up too many newbies. And some kind of WBL overhaul or replacement would have value - I personally like the idea of systems of innate enhancement bonuses on the character, which do not stack with those of items, He could use the PF1 Unchained variant or make something of his own (I'm making my own), with WBL becoming an optional rule to replace it instead of the default. Too many newbie GMs don't seem to get that they're disproportionately fucking over martials by having like one +2 sword as the only magic item in a level 10 group. Beyond that I would start from just collecting the good shit from 3e OGL and cutting and then rewriting trash options. All my more divergent ideas, would likely be too drastic for the average 3e fan in this general, and would hinder compatibility with the people who just want new content to use with 3.5/AE/PF1/d20 Past/etc.

>>96763670
>>96755344 responding 4/6
> Flawed / Failed magic items with a roll-based crafting subsystem implemented with a feat that lets you "bat out of your league" with magic item creation, making it tempting to try.
Not a terrible idea. He doesn't need to change it, but that was an example of something getting an overhaul in my own janky project. I did always think it was weird how it was just automatic though.

> I've been working on an alchemy system / alchemist class that is compatible with the PHB alchemy rules. Maybe that'll be something I can publish soon.
I don't know if I would want a new Alchemist /class/ but I would certainly look it up. Can't be any worse than the PF1 version. I would like a better alchemy and herbalism subsystem that skills interface with though.

> Do you think just renaming stuff and saying "this room has two Face Eaters from page 38 of Creature Compendium IV" and people will be able to deduce I'm talking about Defacers from Monster Manual IV, will be enough?
Oh! You're the Youtube anon. Wasn't sure. IIRC if you use the OGL in the product you waive the right to reference their books, which is why nobody else does that. It's been a few years since I have read it though. So - no I would stick to OGC Monsters; and maybe eventually make your own replacements.

>>96763681
>>96755344 responding 5/6
> So stuff like those mini-factions and mini-dungeons they put in a lot of the later 3.5e books like Complete Scoundrel having those hideout maps and stuff, would be good? I definitely could do that.
Yes. Though I would also do what the Alexandrian talks about. He has a lot of good actionable advice. He's not unique in that area, but he has more of it than most.
Dungeon Rosters would be super helpful for your hideouts / guild halls / mini-dungeons.
https://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/5597/roleplaying-games/better-dungeon-maps-7-the-monster-roster

> I have talked a lot about doing a 3.5e hexcrawl so having little mini-dungeons people could slot into a hexcrawl they were making, might be nice.
Hexcrawl assets are broadly useful, but by themselves probably won't get you an audience, you know?

>>96771942
>>96763681
>>96755344 responding 6/6
But for my suggestion for what I would suggest you make and why I suggested a 3.5 Retroclone base, and how it would differ from just using the SRD:
- Start with the 3.5 SRD.
- Pull out the shit options and put them in a document of shit needing rewrites (maybe also some bigger problem spells).
- Maybe start importing good OGC from other 3.X d20 game lines. I would consider the PF1 classes for instance, but not their corebook feats or their combat maneuver system (unless it gets redesigned to be less shit than the 3.5 one).
- Backlog ideas of cool non-OGC shit to rewrite like how Dreamscarred Press redid Bo9S across two Path of War books. This is future content rewrite ideas.
- Build on and revise it over time on a website, keeping old versions of everything accessible.
- Start with only a small number of changes to the SRD, start blogging about the project, start a Patreon, build on it gradually. This is the system you build your content to be compatible with, but by its nature it should be easily compatible with every other 3.X game system.
- You can always make PoD+PDF books people can get on DtRPG, which may be accessible to patrons for free if they have x months of active patronage when the PDF drops (like the 3d print guys do), and then the web reference version of rules and stats is freely available (but adventures / dungeons / factions / towns are always by purchase or through patreon).
- Branch out over time based on what your audience likes. Marketing will be required too.

>>96763670
>>96771959
Alright, anon. There's my lengthy reply. I'm off to bed. I check in here every day or two. If you want to chat more regularly about game-designy stuff, I'm always happy to have more creative contacts. Let me know and I can set up a 10minutemail you can message with something distinct so I know you're the 3.5 Youtube anon and include your Session messenger ID and I'll add you - or you can post it to a zerobin link or something if you don't mind filtering out other people who might contact you. Or if you're crazy you could post it here directly. Something something Session Messenger ID.

Or I can just interact with you in this general with the rest of the 3.5 people. Whatever works for you.

>>96764410
>and what about Run?
I would honestly delete it because PCs move too fast as it is.

>>96764472
True I actually agree with this. I mean you can already draw two weapons while running if you have +1 BaB or whatever that rule is.

>>96770805
Yeah I wouldn't copy anything from Alexandrian at this point.
Maybe something like Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed where it was like an alternate PhB? But I think you're right, a regular retroclone would be better.

>>96771942
>Really shit feats could be merged if they can't be redesigned to be worth taking, etc.
True but a lot of them should be buffed.
>WBL
Yeah mostly because the Big Six magic items are boring and need to be combined with other items and abilities.

>>96771959
Monster rosters are a good idea.
Yeah hexcrawl tidbits aren't enough (although it seems to work for a lot of artsy hipsters on instagram) so maybe I would need more in-depth rules for it.

>>96771971
>- Start with the 3.5 SRD.
>- Pull out the shit options and put them in a document of shit needing rewrites (maybe also some bigger problem spells).
How does this not just turn into either plagiarism or incompatibility with 3.5e to the point that I might as well just rewrite existing 3.5e options? Like "Ambush Feats.... Fixed"?
Maybe I am misunderstanding what you were suggesting. Or what you think the actual benefit of another 3.5e retroclone would actually be.

>>96772001
I haven't gotten to bed yet. Figured you were offline.
Alexandrian has good ideas for game procedures. Like his dungeon roster presentation for more living dungeons, and his hexcrawl framework is pretty good, but I would definitely make a hexcrawl with a computer program as the base map and have the computer populate it, and then go in and manually refine it (like they do for many videogame maps). I would not try to fill all of the hexes in some giant continent map or the like. But the dude has basically 0 marketing or business sense - so definitely don't copy that shit.

>>96772007
> (although it seems to work for a lot of artsy hipsters on instagram)
The artsy hipsters largely sell bland shovelware. What they have going for them is the art which they use for marketing. I don't know if you have any art skills, but a lack of visuals will make marketing hard.

>>96772011
The good shit would be essentially D&D 3.5 core with the serial numbers filed off (that's basically what a retro clone is). You would use a "good shit" cut of the SRD (or a couple SRDs stitched together) as a baseline you can build off of and use for marketing for your game and put on a website and sell a POD book of once you flesh it out with a bit more unique stuff. Your retro clone is 1 part marketing material, 1 part a baseline to build off of. You don't need each feat to be the same, because if someone wants feats from other editions, they can take them. But the framework of the characters is similar enough that you can grab the NPCs for your adventures and run them with PF1 core rules or 3.5 core rules, using your versions of the feats, or they can swap them out and convert to their preferred 3.x very easily. You see? Not about 100% copy, but about very easy compatibility, plus your own baseline to build on, build a community and a patreon around, and get yourself a bit of recurring monthly revenue. Then when you have money maybe you commission art toward a big kickstarter + tightly targetted ad campaign to make people aware of your already finished and playable RPG that's cross-compatible with 3.5 and PF1.

> "Ambush Feats.... Fixed"?
"Ambush Feats, but Viable" might be a good idea of a supplement to go with. Sure.

But the idea is that you're not reinventing the wheel. The stuff that's already good, you leave alone, or as close as you can legally get away with. Then you fund the development of new shit your audience wants through a patreon + boosty + kofi + whatever with occasional marketing so the right people hear about your project.

Firstly making a point that I am not the archive YouTube guy.

>>96771942
>And some kind of WBL overhaul or replacement would have value
Having a user cost metric like PF2e's playtest Resonance mechanic remains my own preference, lets you separate the gamist utility from the economic value.

>I personally like the idea of systems of innate enhancement bonuses on the character, which do not stack with those of items
I've considered doing this to monsters complete with slot correspondence so that using their body-parts in crafting is straightforward and stealing their raw numbers with shapeshifting is more limited.

>Too many newbie GMs don't seem to get that they're disproportionately fucking over martials by having like one +2 sword as the only magic item in a level 10 group.
This issue can be assisted by factoring out CR for common conditionals.

>>96772011
>How does this not just turn into either plagiarism or incompatibility with 3.5e to the point that I might as well just rewrite existing 3.5e options?
Rewriting the bad options is a massive part of how you raise the floor, as preventing bad experiences is a large part of how you move the average towards satisfying ones.

>>96772011
If you want a more dramatic redesign (like my point buy thing without combat XP, built around my own setting, and a bunch of my own janky ideas, yadda yadda) - you could certainly do that if you have ideas. Bigger job though. I've been building my funky d20 game for a year and a half now. It's taken longer than I expected, but I can't work on it full time.

And your ideas seem to be largely about trying to make stuff that 3.5 fans might want, and perhaps also PF1 fans - but frankly there aren't a lot of those left who are active, and I think 3.5 is older now than AD&D was when its first retro clones started popping up in the 2000s, even if you exclude Hackmaster. So, while you might get some 3.x fans who pick up your stuff, you're going to need to develop your own fanbase as well if you want sales. So if you want to have more people enthusiastic about 20 year old 3.5 content, you'll need to accept that a bunch of your customers weren't playing it 20 years ago, and they'll be finding out about it through you. In which case, "X But Better" to people who didn't experience X, can be sold as a new thing.

(I'm not a marketing expert, but I do have a 2 year business diploma, and did take marketing classes).

>>96772108
Noted.

> PF2e's playtest Resonance mechanic
I didn't play the PF2 Playtest, but I did give it a skim when it was happening. How did that work?

> I've considered doing this to monsters complete with slot correspondence so that using their body-parts in crafting is straightforward and stealing their raw numbers with shapeshifting is more limited.
Interesting idea.

> This issue can be assisted by factoring out CR for common conditionals.
What, like rewriting all the monsters to have lower to-hit and damage and remove their DR? Yeah, I guess. But the newbie DM isn't going to do that either.

>>96772108
>Rewriting the bad options is a massive part of how you raise the floor, as preventing bad experiences is a large part of how you move the average towards satisfying ones.
Exactly, my man. Exactly. You're not trying to move the needle on how the better optimized players are playing, but reduce how much the newbies and unoptimized players fuck themselves over by taking trash they don't realize is trash, that more experienced players would look at, throw up in their mouth a little, and then skip. Plus, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" will reduce the workload.

>>96772146
>Plus, "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" will reduce the workload.
Well, some things are hard to tell if they are broken or not, since it is more a design decision.
The most obvious and egregious example is Power Attack. It allows to turn BAB into damage, which specifically wasn't a case in AD&D. Warriors just slapped people in the face and were expected to always deal the respectable consistent damage in the party. You had attack bonus and damage as kinda separate tracks.
And then 3.5 designers also added True Strike. And multiple ways to enhance PA damage. And ways to get around PA attack penalty. In a system that already didn't have very tight attack-defense system. Meaning that PA influence became incredibly oversized on the stage.

Was it really a good thing?

>>96772146
>I didn't play the PF2 Playtest, but I did give it a skim when it was happening. How did that work?
At a quick search, it seems the original version was level+Charisma points for items you can use including consumables, with an unmodified check for attempting more escalating with each used while "dry". Obviously, pegging to a "lowest common demoninator" of WBL then re-scaling as desired like changing the common power-of-two exponent would go smoothly for conversion (though fractional exponents would probably need a lookup table to be sure), but I'd actually be interested in trying to use it as groundwork for OGL-compliant Meldshaper analogues.

>What, like rewriting all the monsters to have lower to-hit and damage and remove their DR?
More hard metrics to the "adjust for circumstances" advice to tell the newbie DM how much harder it's expected to be when you don't have the tools to shut off or bypass a given monster's "gimmicks" by actually explaining their consequences somewhere among the statblock. Incidentally, the lack of hangliders in the DMG to implement the example of orcs dropping rocks from them bothers me.

>>96772248
>Was it really a good thing?
Well, before all that escalation they felt a desperate need to dramatically increase the HP of monsters in the revision, which makes some increase in damage to the rather flat baseline necessary.

>>96771773
Thanks, I'll look them up.

>>96771789
Eh, the spells known bottleneck is slightly more forgiving when you can swap spells at certain levels. Personally, I think it should be one swap every time you gain a slot. I don't think the Healer had that built in (though I may be wrong), and Favored Soul suffered more from a lack of features, IMO.

As far as the two Specs, a Transmuter could have on-the-fly physical alterations, maybe in line with the PF Hunter, as well as making buffs "better." The Conjuror especially would be neat, you could play a full progression mini planeswalker with snap teleportation and summon enhancements. Despite of bumping elbows with the Cleric, the Conjuror could also burn a Summon spell to spontaneous heal like the Infernal/Celestial Healing. Maybe at monter CR/turn or HD/turn.

These are all ideas, and they didn't even toss them into a Dragon article.

What are the main ways to turn a personal range spell into touch or greater?
Say a wizard wants to cast Bite of the Werebear on his friend.

>>96692336
>>96717952
The homebrew spell seems slightly to quite a bit stronger than battletide (does the group have Hastes?) at the level you get them, with the comparison flipping the higher the level.
The "free" damage from the retaliation and from the spiritual weapon like effect are nice but they don't really scale, whereas battletide's quicken scales faster and higher than that of the hombrew spell.
So homebrew spell starts stronger but battletide overtakes it eventually.

>>96773453
War weaver I guess?

>>96774925
>War weaver I guess?
NTA, but in a party with 2+ heavy hitters, war weaver is top cheese.
It even allows followers from Leadership or Thrallherd to hit like mack trucks. I saw this with my own eyes.

>>96772248
I would say Power attack + enhancers is probably too good, to be optional, yeah. "Mandatory optional" for basically all martials is overtuned and suggests they're trading an "optional resource" to fix a design problem or to do something so overpowered it makes the game way too easy (like Skyrim's stealth archers). PA is probably a bit of both, really. I haven't taken steps to fix that one myself yet, but I may eventually remove it and replace it with a scaling BAB = Damage bonus, perhaps limiting how much attack to hit bonus you can get by making options have overlapping types that don't stack or something.

But that will involve me running a bunch of numbers in a spreadsheet and graphics stuff against benchmarked monster math, and might be a bit too much of a departure for your likely target customers.


If you recall, the way to go in 3.0 also involved a lot of crit fishing by stacking crit range improvers. But it got excessive.
You might keep but try to rework power attack, like PF1 did.

Another thing 3.5 is bland at is 1v1 fights. The normal combat system is definitely not designed for that.

>>96772320
>More hard metrics to the "adjust for circumstances" advice to tell the newbie DM how much harder it's expected to be when you don't have the tools to shut off or bypass a given monster's "gimmicks" by actually explaining their consequences
Oh, I see. "How much to increase CRs by if your group lacks the expected equipment" and an explanation of why - Doesn't quite capture how much it disproportionately nerfs the fighter relying on equipment over a druid who can be mostly casting spells though. But yeah, that would help.

>>96773453
Custom spell a la Tome & Blood is another option. Research a higher level version, go through the process, etc (PF1 Ultimate Magic fleshes out that framework more and IMO is a better take on spell research mechanics, but not perfect. There's also Practical Enchanter, which - I like much less than Eclipse - I think UM suggests that increasing a range increment is usually a 1 level increase, but they tell the GM to pick over it carefully and consider if it should be more or less than 1 spell level.)

>>96775101
>I haven't taken steps to fix that one myself yet, but I may eventually remove it and replace it with a scaling BAB = Damage bonus, perhaps limiting how much attack to hit bonus you can get by making options have overlapping types that don't stack or something.
That probably depends on the kind of game and feel you want to have. If main damage comes from BAB than skill is the main deciding factor in damage. With Strength being not very relevant. Same as in 3.5 where you have PA deciding everything and you can technically go with minimum of 13 Strength and depending on your class/build it may even be preferable as long as you get full BAB - get True Strike on Duskblade and you can just PA anyone you want to death.
On the other hand AD&D is way more reliant on character strength and the weapon he uses. Even Thief doesn't get sneak attack damage but instead multiplier on his normal damage which is also strength based.

Hell, there are some ways to get PA without having requisite 13 strength, so you can get full Wuxia experience of blowing up people with your skill alone.

How many of you guys actually play this edition anyway?

>>96776661
I don't play it actively but if I were to get back into D&D it would be for 3.5.

>>96776661
I do.

>>96776661
E6 only. High level play too fucking busy for us. And even 6 levels is a lot of shit to play with.

>>96776661
I've modified it so much that it isn't really 3.5 anymore

>>96776661
I haven't had a chance since 2020, but I was playing 3.0+3.5+PF1 combined in 2020. Last time I ran it was 2018. But I haven't played 5e since 2020 either. It's been 5 years since I played any official D&D or Pathfinder. But 3e D&D is best D&D. Most likely I'd play/run a 3e derivative with 3e stuff imported sometimes.

>>96776642
This is fair. One thing I haven't touched though, is creature statblocks. I'm deliberately keeping as much compatibility with 3.0, 3.5, and PF1 monsters as possible so I don't need to make a bestiary, no matter what else I change. I just meant I'm not sure I see a need to be PA dependent, and might remove the PA stuff and make it an automatic function of BAB.

>>96776661
I do with pf1 mixed. only edition worth playing imo, everything else does interest me outside of reading up on settings from the older editions.

Is it really the case that the Cleric has no spells anywhere in 3.5e and PF1 that are not part of Conjuration school?
Likewise, the Druid has nothing that can restore negative levels?

If I were to play in a game with my friends, how can I schmooze to the DM that RULES AS WRITTEN my Tiefling Hexwarrior idea is True Neutral, and is just looking to get by the best way he knows how, and not have some anal retentive baboon also at the table play a character specifically designed to rape min.

>>96778387
>Is it really the case that the Cleric has no spells anywhere in 3.5e and PF1 that are not part of Conjuration school?
What?
I'm reading that as you asking if all of the Cleric spells are conjuration.
Might just be my ESL.

>>96778387
>Likewise, the Druid has nothing that can restore negative levels?
The Unyielding Roots spell from the SPell Compendium (I think?), maybe.
I think?

>>96778424
sorry, missed the most critical word:
Is it really the case that the Cleric has no
>healing
spells anywhere in 3.5e and PF1 that are not part of Conjuration school?

>>96778424
also, thanks for this
https://dndtools.net/spells/spell-compendium--86/unyielding-roots--4657/
cool spell. too high level for my use case.
I somehow got under the impression that druids were as good at healing as Clerics, until I just got around to looking at things other than hit points.

>>96778450
Heart's Ease from the BoED heals wisdom damage does that work?
There's probably some that heal HP out there.
But none come to mind.

>>96778466
>I somehow got under the impression that druids were as good at healing as Clerics,
Their spell list sacrifice healing for being generally better at blasting as far as I can gather.

>>96778466
>>96778482
Light of Venya god damnit.
I have it in my character sheet notes and I'm pretty sure it's an evocation spell.
I think it's part of a whole damn line of similar spells too.

>>96778450
As far as I can tell it's a pretty short list.
>Blood of the Martyr (BoED) - transfer your HP to a target
>Faith Healing Wand (City of Splendors) - technically someone else is using the Conjuration spell
>Hibernal Healing (Frostburn) - absorb snow/ice to heal, frozen areas only
>Irian's Light (Races of Eberron) - healing rays
>Light of Venya (Planar Handbook) - healing rays again
>Slow Consumption (BoVD) - double natural healing rate, requires keeping a victim in a rape dungeon and poking them once a day

So,
>96776744
>96776802
>96778387
3 anons playing 3.x

>96777247
One anon playing a personal homebrew.

>96776703
>96777895
Two anons not currently playing.
That's a pretty small population.
Suppose anons in other time zones could how up later too, but still.
For some reason I thought there would be more of you in here.
Also, fuck 4chan thinking my post was spam because I quoted 6 posts.
C'mon.

>>96778505
>>96778596
Thanks anons.

>>96692238 (OP)
So - in the feat tiers document, I notice Catfolk Pounce is only rated at 5 pts. So is Power Attack. I thought both were really good. Why are they both rated worse than say - Combat Awareness? Are they actually kinda shit?

>>96779638
I think the 5 or ones are meant to be baseline good feats and then 10+ are meant to take extra feat slots. Been a while since I looked at it though. 10 is not the expected output per feat slot. I think.

>>96776661
as a player rarely anymore, only when some friend dms and it's usually some high level stuff with enough charop but without endless dipping and stuff, so people mostly play the "good" classes
When i dm, i play a modified and homebrewed E12 version of the game.
Most of the modifications are stuff from the unearthed arcana, the sword and sorcery books and a little bit from trailblazer and fantasycraft.
it works fine for me but it honestly took years to get it where it is, and i still dont feel like that my project is complete

>>96776661
I play in two campaigns with more or less the same players and very limited homebrew. We meet more or less every week.

Lets say there is a long corridor in a dungeon and its 5ft wide and there are some creatures within it
Someone casts a blade barrier as a wall passing down the middle of that corridor.
'Or if that's not possible, because I read some rules that one has to originate these spells at the points between squares', than cast the Blade Barrier diagonally between opposing corners of the corridor.

What happens to the creatures within that corridor trying to make their reflex save? Are the ones that make it now 'squeezing' into a smaller area? do they need to keep making checks if they stay in the corridor? what if they need to move and fight?

In general trying to understand the potential uses of the spell for attacking, rather than merely blocking access to yourself.

>>96783559
Blade Barrier can't move. The description states "An immobile, vertical curtain of whirling blades".

>>96783763
I understand that. But the caster can place it where he wants as he casts it.
So lets say he is looking down a 50ft long, 5ft wide corridor and he places it from one corner to the other.
Technically it now passes diagonally through all the squares of that corridor. I am trying to understand what happens to the medium creatures within it.

>>96784505
Ah, I thought you were trying to press its way down the hallway like a crusher.

" An immobile, vertical curtain of whirling blades shaped of pure force springs into existence. Any creature passing through the wall takes 1d6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 15d6), with a Reflex save for half damage.

If you evoke the barrier so that it appears where creatures are, each creature takes damage as if passing through the wall. Each such creature can avoid the wall (ending up on the side of its choice) and thus take no damage by making a successful Reflex save.

A blade barrier provides cover (+4 bonus to AC, +2 bonus on Reflex saves) against attacks made through it. "

The fact it's a "barrier" or "curtain" rather than a wall implies to me that it's fairly thin, especially because there's no text on what remaining "within" the blades does. I think therefore it wouldn't really impede movement (5 square feet is a LOT of space) unless you were specifically trying to get past the midpoint.

If you're actively fighting I think it'd get dicier because you can't move freely but I think there it'd be easiest to just slap a -2 on attack rolls and call it a day. Let people shove each other back and forth through the barrier.

>>96783559
I'd say it's a save per round, as if they got a barrier dropped on them. You can squeeze to the side, but then I'd add penalties to combat - like counting as flat footed.

>goblin, small, base movement speed 30 feet
>kobold, small, base movement speed 30 feet
>halfling, small, base movement speed 20 feet
>gnome, small, base movement speed 20 feet
Should I decrease goblin and kobold movement speed, or increase halfling and gnome movement speed?

>>96788324
why do you think that all small creatures should have the same base speed?
not that i disagree with you just curious what prompted this.
also if you havent noticed kobolds and goblins that are supposed to be enemies have 30 ft and halflings and gnomes that are supposed to be pcs have 20 ft speed, so this is a feature not a bug because 3.5 balanced enemies and playables differently, which is also what causes problems when pcs get their hands around monster abilities with planar allies, shapeshifting etc.
To put it simply gnomes and halflings are supposed to be slower than their medium sized pc counterparts so they have 20 ft speed opposed to the elves and humans while the monsters are supposed to be able to keep up with pcs so they have the default 30 ft speed
If i were to make a change i would honestly take everything down to 20 ft speed because it makes the most sense

>>96788646
>not that i disagree with you just curious what prompted this.
I was picking through the monster manual comparing existing small human shaped monsters for a custom monster I was making. I noticed that both goblins and kobolds could move faster than a halfling and thought it was amusing. I bet halflings insult each other by saying, "Not as fast as a goblin".

>>96789230
>slow feet, fast hands is a typical toast in halfling society

>>96692238 (OP)
New topic:
So - over in an ENWorld thread about the Kalamar books (which I've never read), I just saw someone talking about
https://www.enworld.org/threads/kingdoms-of-kalamar-vs-greyhawk-and-any-good-modules.715737/
https://legacy.drivethrurpg.com/product/54244/Goods-and-Gear-The-Ultimate-Adventurers-Guide?affiliate_id=820
https://kenzerco.com/product/goods-and-gear-the-ultimate-adventurers-guide-pdf/
being one of their favorite 3.X books.

>Goods and Gear is my favorite equipment book every published for a fantasy setting and Dangerous Denizens may be my favorite monster book.
>Kalamar's equipment book, Goods and Gear: The Ultimate Adventurer's Guide (affiliate link), was a truly excellent resource. I'd say it was the best such book in the whole of the 3.X market. Not only did it cover weapons and armor, but it showcased a lot of mundane items that fleshed out the setting, ranging from food and drink to coinage, all of which helped to showcase different regions of the Kalamar setting in small ways that made them feel fleshed out and alive.

1. Have any of you guys read it?
2. Is it in the vault?
3. What other more niche setting books have good shit worth looking into that I might want for other settings?

>>96792044
i have seen those books before in the wild and downloaded most of them but never got to them, and i lost my hoard a few years ago. dont know about the vault
what i ve read about kalamar from scimming the atlas made me feel like the setting wa much more low fantasy than 3.5 was suited for thematically.
I really liked the Kalamar classes though.
If you dont know about Ptolus i recommend checking it out. One of the most expansive 3rd party settings with tons of books

>>96792181
I played in a Ptolus campaign in PF1 one time. But it was just the GM using Ptolus for the setting stuff. All our character options and gear were PF1 versions, unless it was something we found in the Banewarrens. It was an interesting city. Does it have good gear or character options, too?

what penalty would you deem valid for a check to identify a monster that is being described to you by your party's scout without you getting to see it yourself?

>>96792044
I just easily found it on the Russian search engine by simply searching name and pdf. the y****x one

>>96792203
it had some setting specific equipment lists. I remember firearms and some other monir equipment at the very least but i think they are spread across different books and not gathered in a single book

>>96792044
>>96792309
oh boy, a quick and good system for both slaves AND whores!!! Well, this one is going into the favorites folder real fast
idk on the animal part though, only 3 gp for a pig and 30gp for a ram vs 15 gp for a bull... why would a ram be so much more expensive?

>>96792284
Hmm. probably -10. But make the scout roll spot against it and give a +2 for every 5 by which it beats the spot DC to see the monster, taking distance penalties and cover in consideration - the better the scout sees, the more accurately they can describe it.

Favorite crime faction?

>>96792470
Zhentarim are pretty fun. But I also like the Arcane Brotherhood of Luskan.

>>96792356
> why would a ram be so much more expensive
Good question, and I have no idea.

Just like in modern day, when I look at historical prices, the price of a ram should be at most about double-ewe. (ba-dum-tish!)
https://familyfarmlivestock.com/how-much-do-sheep-cost-rams-and-ewes/
https://medieval.ucdavis.edu/120D/Money.html
http://www.medievalcoinage.com/prices/medievalprices.htm

Goods & gear has it at triple-ewe. No clue why.

What are some good teamwork benefits for a party of 4th-level newbies? We can only pick one, and there's barely any info out there about them.
We're also looking at a companion spirit, if anyone has advice on those.

Our party:
>ardent
>archivist
>warmage
>wildshape ranger
>psychic rogue
>warblade