Thread 96712150

>evil dark lord king of evil is evil and thus does bad, immoral, reprehensible things
>"WAHHH YOU CANT INCLUDE THEMES LIKE THIS IN YOUR GAME DONT YOU KNOW HOW TRIGGERING THAT IS AND HOW BAD IT IS AND HOW EVIL AND WRONG IT IS NOBODY SHOULD EVER SAY THESE THINGS EVER"
>this same player gleefully boasted about decapitating 16 goblins and leaving the goblin children to starve

Why are modern TTRPG players like this

>>96712150 (OP)
They're not. You're literally inventing things to be mad at.

>>96712156
Nah, I've seen this behavior from people. Doesnt necessarily have to be new players but with ttrpgs becoming more popular, youre just naturally going to get larger quantities of people with certain personalities. We also live in the internet age where things are magnified and blown out of proportion. Personally i think theyre just narcissistic dipshits that operate with a black and white mentality with their moral compass always pointing in their direction.

>>96712156
That's basically how it works with 40K though. Especially with players getting triggered over armies painted in certain colors.

>>96712156
Every modern RPG pretty much has a "don't be meanie-weanie uwu" diatribe at the beginning of the core book. Every modern corporation has pulled some version of the "X is for everyone CHUD" performative fanbase purge. I know gaslighting is an almost instinctual behaviour for your poofters, but we're long past the point when you can get away with it.

>>96712290
At least the "don't be meanie-weanie uwu" diatribe makes sense in the context of being civil with your fellow players. In the case of your character sadistically slaughtering goblin children while accosting the evil villain for being... y'know, the EVIL VILLAIN... These people don't belong here.

>>96712150 (OP)
Not a problem for me because I don't play with softass pussies. If you do, the solution to your problem is in this reply.

>>96712150 (OP)
Moral myopia. The basic idea of dissociation from their own actions being awful is surprisingly common in TTRPGs. I've seen people gleefully deliver brutal death onto their enemies, then get out-of-character squeemish when the shoe is on the other foot and an allied NPC is killed.

Admittedly, a lot of it does have to do with each player's internal preferences regarding the various atrocities man imposes upon man. But a lot of people cannot stand the idea that bad shit could happen to their own fantasy characters and fantasy characters they like. The consent forms are a fucking meme, but getting a sense of what your players can handle is a good idea before the campaign, as well as adjusting things midway through. (Please note adjustment can either be changing campaign tone, or chucking out especially contentious players.)

>>96712415
In a similar vein: I've seen My players commit wanton murder and destruction while leaving behind tons of evidence, then shit bricks when the authorities catch up to them. But I have to give them credit, they don't pretend that what they were doing was righteous, moral, or good when they get caught.

>>96712150 (OP)
>Why are modern TTRPG players like this
Because this is the most popular villain in the most popular THING ever created by humanity, and he has a tragic/misunderstood backstory. This is the real answer, anything to the contrary in this thread is wrong. I am right. I exist in a perpetual state of being correct.

>player plays a priest and picks a chosen of god subclass, shadow of the demonlord
>worships good god
>bitches when I give him 1 (one) corruption when all he does is chase money, always panics and tries to run/leave teammates to die on multiple occaissons, and was going to burgle possessions from the house of people he didn't even know were alive or dead and didn't investigate all the way
He should be lucky I didn't divine wrath his ass.
If you pick a class then fucking play the class you pick, don't get pissy because you want all the benefits of religious classes and none of the drawbacks.

>>96712150 (OP)
What game?

>>96712415
>>96712512
Often comes from those people who understand it's a game and want to have fun pushing the limits, but then forget that part of the DM's role is to make those limits push back so they keep having shit to do in the game.

>>96712588
Pretty much anything that you can assume, by default, includes violence.

>>96712150 (OP)
Yeah you punt the goblin children dead. Got to make them good goblins like their parents now.

>>96712150 (OP)
Did not happen to you, nogames. And on the astronomical chance it did I ain't surprised, you sound like a cunt and probably surround yourself with the like.

You just wanna start another shit thread about muh modern games and muh objective morals.

Faggot.

>>96712290
>don't be meanie-weanie uwu
Yes, if you are playing with other people you are pretty much expected not to be an asshole
You would know that if you were playing them, dohoho

>>96712156
You do this "s-shut up it never happens!!" gaslighting every single thread, go away

>>96712415
>But a lot of people cannot stand the idea that bad shit could happen to their own fantasy characters and fantasy characters they like.
This isn't a modern occurrence, though, there have been stories about players having a melty about losing PCs and waifus and shit predating the Internet.

>>96712975
No I was asking what game you were playing where this excact situation took place as you describe. Sorry if it wasn't obvious.

Goblins and orks and demons and necromancers and shit are evil in my games.
Just make them evil in your games too.
problems weren't.

>>96713102
How many times has this happened then?

>>96712150 (OP)
That's pretty antisemitic of you.

>>96712150 (OP)
They aren't. The idpol death cult does not play TTRPGs per se.

>>96712541
Honestly, this twat being a quipshitting bore with Freudian excuses makes me want to see him drowned in a vat of boiling urine more, not less, than if he was an unapologetic monster.

>>96712150 (OP)
The "Please don't start yelling NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER as soon as group assembles" disclaimer is mainly for LGS/Con play, where your party is other randos. Bitching about things that don't concern you (you do have friend group to play with, right?) Is incredibly feminine behavior.

>>96713611
Now who said anything about the jews?

>>96712224
>I've seen this behavior from peopl
Where and when? Should be easy to tell us if it actually happened, right?

>>96712975
wrong

>>96712150 (OP)
Goblins, like communists, aren't people

>>96722063
trve

>>96712243
Do those colors represent things outside of 40k?

>>96712150 (OP)
>this man wants to shove his hidden rape and dismemberment fetishes and cherry picks things that he knows will bother his players in a core level
(like losing a nose, if someone at the table is recovering from a broken nose)

Idiots will try to justify anything they do. Learn to be social, OP.

>>96712150 (OP)
No-one who decapitates 16 Goblins would leave Goblin children to starve. That would be immoral and not a Good act. You kill the Goblin offspring too. Leaving them alive is just letting more Evil into the world.

>>96713768
Yeah, well, people went squeamish.
>What's that? you can't write a story with IMPLIED RAPE in it!
But the rapist/s are the bad guy/s
>You're triggering meeeeeee!

Well fuck, I guess Slaanesh demons just tickle people and feed them too much chocolate pudding.

And Dark Eldar?
Everything stays above the belt, and they have very strict safe-word rules.
Very prudish people those Dark Eldar.

Frankly, that's just one side of it; I think really vivid depictions of malicious butchery have been reigned in in literature.

Gimme some stuff with real teeth, show me some animalism.

>Ecbert's axe whirled in a death-arc, and Fridulf's resisting joints were parted by the overhand murderblow; his splintered shield, and severed forearm falling away like litter; the axe-head wedged itself deep in his brainpan, like breaking the head of a cask, his corpse staggered, and fell, wrenching the axe from Ecbert's hand, as Fridulf's kinsmen leapt forwards; their spearheads flickering with vengeful malice, as they cried out that they would defile his corpse and kinswomen.

I just wrote that.
That's what I like.
Gimme the malice; gimme the FULL FAT version.

I am a grownup.

>>96712150 (OP)
You get 0 (zero) sympathy from me. You should only play with friends, and its your responsibility to weed out people that dont fit in your group.

>>96730859
>I just wrote that.
Then you should go write a book. If your players wanted to hear your descriptions of graphic violence they wouldnt complain

>>96730891
>They wouldn't complain
They don't?
Because I don't game with faggots.

>>96712290
Majority of the RPGs with excessive pearl clutching and virtue signalling nonsense tacked on aren't selling and aren't being played by anyone. But that's also not what OP is fabricating. OP is pretending there are situations where players are also pearl-clutchers and enforcing these safety guidelines against the wishes of everyone else at the table, and then engaging in wanton murderhobo behavior.

This is a nonsense scenario that does not happen.

>>96730919
>people went squeamish
Who are the people then?

>>96730978
The people I don't or no longer play with, because they are faggots.

Is the concept of social shunning alien to you?
If you get "Triggered" at my table, you're getting bounced off the doorstep in short order.

>>96730919

>>96713768 here and if you DO have a group to play with there's no problem, as I said. You playing with friends who are all on the same page tone-wise and playing in a pickup game with total strangers are very different situations. The disclaimers are for the latter and it's assumed you'll actually talk with your pick up group to establish the tone.

>>96731044
>Playing pickup games with total strangers
If you have to do this, you have my deepest commiserations, but also, this should only be a transitional stage before you find your regulars.

However, as an enthusiast of all things edgy, oversexed and ultraviolent, who owns his own kitchen table, I have strangely, never had that problem.

I play small-scale skirmish games with minimal investment requirements, and little overhead, and have plenty of spare miniatures for the curious.

Having to find total strangers to have fun with, because the rules are too bloated for your friends to learn, and the buy-in cost is prohibitive, is a sign that your hobby is disappearing up it's own arsehole.

We don't do Warhammer or D&D in this house.
We do everything else.

>>96731043
So they complained (got "triggered" as you put it), and then you made decision to kick them out. So why are you lying and saying no one complained?
Now im think you are just a nogame that can't keep all the details of your lies straight

>>96731099
Nobody complained, because they are nobodies
Nobody I played withy complained, because I don't play with them any more.

>I can't believe that you used to play with people, whom you later found irritating and censorious, so you jettisoned them like the shit they were

Incredulous little faggot, ain't we?

>>96712150 (OP)
>king is evil
How fucking dare you. Get that filth out of here. The king rules by divine grace and his goodness is both inherent and unquestionable.

>>96713061

But making fun of god, babies, and sacrificing babies is just good culture Chud.

The same people inserting that message enjoy being transgressive.

>>96713768
I have never heard the n word in real life except from black people, but I have heard plenty of anti religion remarks, anti family, child hate, anti natalism, even making fun of women who can’t have kids or lost a baby.

No one gets cancelled or banned for slurs, they are banned for traditional arguments or data sets that are inconvenient. It’s all a pretend game same as all these violent criminals claim they said the n word. It’s your magic spell word.

>>96732348
>Tell me you're middle class without telling me

Nothing commendable about a limited vocabulary, chap.

>Never sang along to NWA or Eazy-E
>Never just had an argument with a black dude that turned mutually racial, but also wasn't a big deal
>Never just out and called a nigger out for being a nigger on public transport.

I guess it really is just proles and animals that are free.

>>96712150 (OP)
>Why are modern TTRPG players like this
Name ten instances or kill yourself.

>>96732323
>But making fun of god, babies, and sacrificing babies is just good culture Chud.
Tell the player doing that at your table he's being an asshole and to keep it out of the game.

Simple as that, learn to communicate.

>>96732988
The entire 5e group my old schoolmate set up after he came back from Uni.

Infested with 'em.

We played curse of Strahd; Strahd appeared on a rooftop twirling his cloak dramatically; in character, my terminally uncouth four-foot tall Gnomish barbarian yelled up "Stop playing with your wee cape, you faggot, come down here and fight us!"

The whole table froze as if they'd never heard a swear word before.

Absolute melts.

Got through Strahd and Chult with those sad fucks, and it was a chore the whole way, but I did it for my mate.

I tapped out when he let his actual self-declared Marxist roommate run that god-awful book of micro-adventures though.

I made a joke about "Elven grooming gangs" and he spent the rest of the session vetoing me whenever I tried to do anything, and ignoring my turns.

So I left, since frankly, I have a better standard of company than merely being "tolerated", and it was getting to the point where I was sizing up Bolshy boy for a body bag; I'd already made him cry from telling him Jo Cox died like a bitch.

>>96712150 (OP)
>>"WAHHH YOU CANT INCLUDE THEMES LIKE THIS IN YOUR GAME DONT YOU KNOW HOW TRIGGERING THAT IS AND HOW BAD IT IS AND HOW EVIL AND WRONG IT IS NOBODY SHOULD EVER SAY THESE THINGS EVER"
Uhh yeah how is his happening? You're playing with people like this? Maybe stop.

>>96712150 (OP)
Wizards courted them. Look at official wizards campaign worksheets that include areas for potential triggers that prospective players are supposed to fill out for the DM. This has been in process since the early 2010s anon. You should have seen this coming

>>96712243
Nobody likes trannies anons, not even trannies

>>96713688
He's pretty, so women forgive him his faults and leave snail trails on theater seats. Ever since, the tragic, sad, misunderstood villain has been more and more common.

>>96735236
Especially not trannies.
It's why the leading cause of death for trannies is suicide; the nearest tranny to them when they finally snap is always themselves.

>>96712156
Bro one of my old dms turned into one of these people. I assure you this is shamefully real.

>>96735227
"consent forms" were a thing even back in the 90s, granted, most prominent in the WoD community (i.e. the gayest one)

>>96734097
I’d bet if someone kirked Farsge you’d cry like a bitch.

>>96712150 (OP)
It's more that modern villains can kill vast numbers of anonymous, faceless people, but God help you if they're misogynists or they use a racial slur.

>>96735420
That's because consent forms indirectly originated from BDSM due to the overlap between that and the RPG community: https://www.wargamer.com/dnd/bdsm-community-consent-tools
>>96735227
The pathfinder "Running the Game rules also clearly court this audience, whenever someone tells me "but you can just play without these rules" I will respond with the argument "the publishers clearly are courting this audience, who am I going to play with?"
https://2e.aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?ID=2468

>>96735459
Farrage is a moderate.
I intend on voting for him, but I'm more of a Rupert Lowe guy; I want mass deportations and a unilatetal withdrawal from the echr and a revirw of the citizenship of EVERY migrant from the last 20 years, with the option to denaturalize and deport any found to be not working, or lacking english skills, or committing crimes.

Nigel is just the controlled opposition sent to mollify us; we will take everything he gives us, but we must push far beyond what he is willing to do.

>>96712150 (OP)
>grimdark setting
>the chaos god of perfectionism no longer wants anything to do with sex after having a #metoo intervention
>the dark eldar fade to black any time they get within a mile of their home
>the nobles of the imperium have invented unseen incredible marketing techniques that mean sensuality no longer sells

>>96712150 (OP)
the left side of the community that lives terminally on bluesky and discord is truly a sight to behold but like most humans they can be hacked by an attractive person so you can just ignore their convictions by putting any effort at all into yourself
unless you were born hideous, in which case you have my sympathies

>>96736789
I'm not even British and I know that he is moderate and is just as globalist as the rest of the uniparty in every nation
Sometimes I wonder what the definition of extreme for some people is and if they just have no context for how things historically were

>>96735746
I mean when you consider our IRL morality, this seems pretty on point. You're allowed to pay your taxes and claim plausible deniability that the money is funding black ops, you're not allowed to say nigger at work.

>>96736948
Before anyone >uhmmmm axshually but they're evil, the point is that evil and tolerability are two different axes.

>>96735746
Usually it's solely to not offend the sensibilities of the audience, rather than anything that represents what the villain genuinely believes. Though sometimes it does effectively sell just how big of a dirtbag the villain is that they pay lipservice to social concepts promoting equality and treating their fellow man with respect while not hesitating to treat others as tools, repeatedly remind others of being their social inferiors, or outright disregarding the value of life in effortlessly slaughtering those they consider "beneath them".

>>96712541
Ouch but also likely correct. Capeshit has been a disaster for popular culture.

>>96712156
Faggot.

>>96736025
>this page has gone awol
I believe it though, seeing that filter into the Vancouver/Victoria indirpg scene in the mid 2000s was funny given how Koebel ended up.

>>96736025
>the publishers clearly are courting this audience, who am I going to play with?
Your friends, if you have any.

>>96712150 (OP)
>puckee spamming his commission again
https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/r9msyt/art_commission_larry_the_lich_art/
https://desuarchive.org/_/search/image/0uAsjic8baHEf61Jm2Wu6Q/
>94 times

>>96735746
Yeah this is the thing I find so fucking retarded about the way many stories are written today, and I find it even more egregious when people flip like this over tabletop games.

>>96738838
I have 3 actual friends and the rest of my "friends" are only considered such because I went to middle school with them, and most of them are confirmed to be very woke (and I went to an extremely pozzed Bay Area middle school which endorsed 5th graders trooning out but suspended me for mocking the Multiple Intelligences Theory so the rest probably also are), and the few of them who actually are interested in TTRPGs either are autistic tomboys tricked into being nonbinary or only play 5e. My college has a board gaming club, but they love the x-card and PBTA-esque games, and they only play Pathfinder 2e, not pathfinder 1e. The closest potential players who would be interested in playing a morally complex game (i.e. D&D with a canonically appropriate level of grimness according to Dragon Magazine #300) are one of said autistic tomboys who posts on giantitp and who I played Arcana Unearthed with once but the game was cancelled due to scheduling, and a long-term friend who doesn't play D&D but is descended from someone who played AD&D, and who has ADHD. If I made a social mistake around either of them (very likely if I ran an edgy game, since I am also somewhat neurodivergent), I would probably not be forgiven.

>>96713768
>>96715502
It's kinda fascinating how that meme always gets posted by the very people who do that in the first place and there is not even the tiniest hint of self-awareness there. And that's the entire modus operandi of these people now - after-the-fact argumentation, where they draw the line of ignorance in the sand in front of their own feet, as though they pretesent the status quo and not the ones who fucked shit up to begin with. If any criticism in their over-the-top sensibility bullshit is made now, they will look you straight in the eye and tell you, that you are in fact the "snowflake" for not wanting disclaimers, trigger warnings and safety-washed fluff in everything that isn't your private table at home.

>>96741729
*represent

I get that not every bad guy needs to be wholly, irredeemably and monstrously evil. I get that not every bad guy needs to indulge in really off-putting things. But it works the other way around. Sometimes, a story just works better when the villain isn't safe evil.

>>96712156
fpbp
the seething replies only confirm it further

>>96746957
>safe evil
Are they really truly evil if they are "safe evil"?

>>96730971
>Majority of the RPGs with excessive pearl clutching and virtue signalling nonsense tacked on aren't selling and aren't being played by anyone.
Disingenuous beyond belief. The majority of RPGs aren't selling, period, but the biggest, most played systems are woke as fuck.

>>96735459
Who're you going to get to Seduce Farrage and explain to him the meaning of 'this thing we call love?' before getting into a fistfight and tearing their shirt?

>>96712150 (OP)
There was no cancer inflicted on tabletop roleplaying recently greater than attempting to normalize the X card aka right for players to veto something DM wants to implement. Fuck you, Mark. You don't get to veto the motion.

>>96741729
I got the feeling a lot of people here are in their 40+ and haven't actually played with NEW younger people. It's like walking on egg shells all the time.

>>96750053
This has always been a thing. We'd just harass and shame a DM for it, previously. Frankly, having a card would'a saved my teenage group plenty of hurt feelings.

>>96750083
Apologies for sperging out but I have had to deal with these sorts of people for almost half my life now.

I'm 19 and many fellow TTRPG fans that I know in-person were raised by millenials who really seethed about being made fun of for trigger warnings and safe spaces, so presumably they were simultaneously taught that those things aren't a big deal but that only evil "STUPID" (they really like using this insult against people who disagree with them, even though we both went to a school for gifted children, but hate when you make fun of people who actually have intellectual disabilities, even if not referring to a specific individual) people dislike trigger warnings/safe spaces, so they can just write off any criticism by saying "you're probably right-wing"/"why is this a big deal".

If it's not a big deal, then why do you have to include it in the first chapter of your book? If it's not a big deal, why does your in-person college club (the point of TTRPG clubs, whether at college or at game stores, is to be able to play games without the prerequisite of being friends with every single person present, since friendship is not transitive. I'm not here to make friends with fellow students and then maybe maybe maybe play a game, I'm here to find games first and foremost, and maybe be your friend if I like the game) have to mention being safe and inclusive in the publicly facing resources page on the official university website, and have an entire discord channel for safety tools?

I mean, I can see what anon is talking about in the cases of massive exceedingly in detail rape and child sexual slavery and those kinds of things. I wouldnt be weirded out if my dm introduces a bad guy who rapes people, but I would be somewhat concerned if my dm went on to make every bad guy in the setting be a rapist and describe the rapes in detail while he has one hand under the table.

>>96754626
Answer is simple on all fronts: because tabletop gaming is a sort of hobby that operates on table-by-table basis, but industry wants to enforce some wide reaching standard.

>>96717490
>*crickets*

>>96754626
If it's a big deal, why are people around you able to play without bitching about it?

>>96754744
The point is that retarded zoomer-millenial players see the evil bad guy doing evil bad things and shit, piss, and cry over it.

Yet, they have no problem casting Sodomize to Death and Appendix Bursting and Fill His Lungs with Water so he Drowns on a couple bandits trying to get money for their kids sick with the plague - and they gleefully describe these horrific acts of violence and treat themselves as heroic for committing them. But when an actual villain gropes a bartender they wanna pull out X-cards and say they're triggered.

>>96732453
>>Never sang along to NWA or Eazy-E
I don't listen to shit music.

I only listen to mid 2010s whitegirl pop which everyone knows is the most elite tier of music.

>>96712156
This. That's what /tg/ is now and I'm sick of it.

>>96750844
if someone works up the nerve to speak up with the DM over something it was probably genuinely bad. X card encourages objecting to the campaign in the middle of it over mild discomfort.

>you may ask what you want X’d but you do not need to explain why
this is a tool for overly sensitive people who can’t vocalize their issues or keep to themselves like adults.

>>96750053
It's like inviting HR to monitor your friend group. I swear the purpose is to create authority outside of immediate circumstances at all times.

Things like the X card are causes of the atrophy of social skills, not a response to it. That's why I hate it as much as I do.

Playing with the sort of people OP is talking about is miserable and nothing should be catered to them.

>>96759787
The crux purpose of things like the X-hard is to enforce a sense of 'HRism' and create distance between people.
It serves the same function as a secret police force having an open 'Snitches get special treatment' policy, you can never be quite sure who is going to turn you in for rewards.
Except because progressivism is the most faggy form of authortarianism so far their reward is updooted on Bluesky for informing Big Nanny of a heckin' Istaphobe rather than something more materially justifiable like being able to take the gold filings out of your corpse or extra food rations.

>>96758906
>But when an actual villain gropes a bartender they wanna pull out X-cards and say they're triggered.
I dont think even the most woke person wouldnt care about that if they could defeat the bad guy or whatever. It seems to me that some people would get upset if a dm were to present such groping as not that bad and make it so the player characters cant do anything about it and then try to argue that player characters do much worse on the regular so they are hypocrites. That dm is now bringing metagaming considerations just to be an asshole to his players or to justify things which may make some players uncomfortable. Its just a game, if you think your players are pussies then just find another group.

>>96760532
>some people would get upset if a dm were to present such groping as not that bad and make it so the player characters cant do anything about it and then try to argue that player characters do much worse on the regular so they are hypocrites
And it would be reasonable for the players to get upset in those circumstances, but that's not the kind of situation I was talking about.

>if you think your players are pussies then just find another group
This is the most effective way of dealing with those kinds of people, yes. I'm just annoyed by their abundance, but then again I live in Canada where most of the population are state-sponsored sissies.

>>96760980
>that's not the kind of situation I was talking about.
I am honestly puzzled then. I know some very very woke people who are into DnD and they would not be offended by bad guys doing slavery, rape or misgendering their characters if they can kick said bad guy's ass for doing so.

>>96761036
Exactly! That's part of the fun in My opinion - watching the bad evil guy do bad evil things helps build up anticipation to curb stomp him later.

Hell, I also don't mind the players casting shit like Sodomize to Death. But when they laugh about it and make it out like a grand act of heroism and see no moral issues with it, then lose their minds over an orc threatening to rape the families they're trying to save during an invasion - this kind of moral hypocrisy is where I get annoyed.

>>96761988
The entirety of 'current year's social norms should be ignored completely in a world that is unlike our own because they have no reason to exist. That's what gets the worst kind of players riled up.

It's retarded and speaks to their mental wellness that their inability to segregate reality from fiction can cause such a reaction.

It's annoying. They're mind broken, but thankfully rare in my experience.

>>96762246
Agreed, fortunately it's easy to filter them out. Just state outright 'The morality of this setting is not the morality of our world' then make sure to insert something that goes against general mainstream Blueskymorality.
>In this setting slavery is common
Is enough for such people to out themselves.

>>96762262
I just feel for those that have to find games through channels that breed that sort of thinking. Not everyone has friends that are into tabletop.

>>96750053
>mfw merely imagining someone vetoing my shit in the game

>>96762262
>The morality of this setting is not the morality of our world.
I've always found it perplexing there are people who engage in fiction with this warped desire to affirm their real life beliefs. It's fiction, mate.