Thread 96727891

Knights Errant Edition

Previous thread: >>96714968

>Legacies:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/

>HH 3.0 - Complete gofile - All Books:
https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N

>New Edition, to a great wailing and gnashing of teeth:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/3.0_Tactics/General_Tactics

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics

>Thread Question:
You there, what are your plans to deal with 10-25 centurions rushing towards your lines to achieve glory or die?

>>96727891 (OP)
Well with my dice rolls I won't be killing any of them, so I don't foresee any issues.

>>96727891 (OP)
>You there, what are your plans to deal with 10-25 centurions rushing towards your lines to achieve glory or die?
By simply shooting the ever loving shit outta them?

I think I will bite the bullet

>>96727891 (OP)

I'm not sure I really do have a solution for Mechanicum, although each of the melta thallax squads and krios venators probably kill one per shooting phase and have a decent chance of Overwatching one to death before he can reach melee to either die for VPs or rout me, so maximum overwatch is a requirement. A squad of three or more Domitars will probably kill an approaching 4W centurion with Volley Fire alone, so they can hold ground for me, and if any of those Centurions are ever standing on an objective they can zap him for delicious Vanguard.

Not sure I can handle 25 individual units with jump packs if they can reliably cover behind terrain, but I'd have to see it in action to find out. An allied detachment of 6-10 is much less of a problem.

>>96727891 (OP)
>I will face them with 10-25 optae and make the game last so long with challenge after challenge my opponent will agree to just give me the win

>>96727978
what legion?

>>96727891 (OP)
where is she

If I want to take a primary Blackshiels detachment, an allied Thousand Sons detachment, and a Lord of War Freeblade detachment, what restrictions am I facing?
If I take an allied detachment AND a Lord of War detachment so long as both of those do not take up more than 74% of the total army list (less than 50% for the allied and less than 25% for the LoW)?
Can I have a bucket of Blackshield centurions running forwards supported by a freeblade with armigers and a couple dreadnoughts from an actual legion? How batshit crazy can I get?

What kits are good for supplying shotguns?

>>96728762
Orlocks have quite a few combat shotguns with drums, and you can try to source old scout shotguns

Which Primarch is your dad, fa/tg/uys? Son of Dorn reporting.

>>96728816
Oh, and palantine enforcers have both shotguns and loads of autopistols. They might work better for space marines.

>>96728826
Arkhas Fal

>>96728826
I have a real father.

>>96728826
My father is betrayal
My mother is rage
My uncle is duty
And my brother is Johnathan.

>>96728816
>>96728831
>six shotguns with the Orlock gang kit or the Palatine patrol kit
>two with the former's upgrade kit otherwise

I see, the former seems to have drum-fed ones from the looks of things but I don't mind, are they tricky to match up properly? Suppose that could also get me into trying Necromunda, too bad we don't have any rules for stuff like AL Operatives.

I can promote a lot of my vets to Centurion now, but I'll still need to make some extra jump pack HQs and maybe a jetbike HQ or two.
Halo blades for everyone too.

>>96728163
Blood angels

>>96727978
>>96728984
No no, your choice is Iron Warriors.

>>96728971
>Making even more HQ
Absolute mad lad

>>96727891 (OP)
I can't find her

>>96728971
I am happy that this pdf brings you joy or at least the motivation to continue converting and building crazy HQs

>>96728971
you give me hope blackshield anon

>>96728951
>too bad we don't have any rules for stuff like AL Operatives.

My group made some rules with exactly this unit. YOLO

>>96729368
Cool, anything fun or just not-cultists? Suppose an Overseer with Militia could also work, albeit less sneaky.

nothing stopping me from making a blackshield army of AL operatives designed to just kill shit

subtle as a hammer

Post what you're working on anons

>>96729724
Final assembly of a saturnine command squad, and salvaging old marines to make some veteran squads and HQ options.

Rematch of last week's game, my DarkMech from Mars vs. my boss's Mechanicum from Atar-Median. Looks like the Errax might be too mobile for Mechanicum to pin down, at least at this points value (1500).

Any tips on painting Castellax Automata? Did you fully assemble it or did you keep it in sub assemblies?

>>96729724
Just finished my IW CRASSUS for great justice. And boy was it useless in game. But it was still pure vibes.

Why the fuck do the HQ characters cost so much? The special characters are even more expensive, Jesus Christ.

>>96731293
Costs are a thing in 3.0.
I still have trouble wrapping my head around paying 90pts for 20 militia mooks, instead of the 50 points of yore.

>>96731283
>AL(?) Phoenix Terminators
cursed

>>96731305
Why, because AL are all WAACFags who only take whatever's the current best unit in the game?

>>96731303
I mean buying the minis, friend.

Are the big, square Thunder Hammers a distinctly 40K thing? I wanted to model a regular marine holding one two-handed.

>>96729438
It's on page 20 of the Scouring pdf here https://gofile.io/d/AmA6RH

He's a little Assassin/Guerilla who can attach to squads or go solo. I'm using the GSC Sanctus model for him. Overseers are neat, I have a couple on my hobby table WIP right now for various legions.

>>96731283
Big baller alert. I also have a CRASSUS that has been built and primed but not anywhere near finished. I fucking love that thing so much.

>>96731456
Not particularly, the heresy team just preferred a more stylized design and the design stuck

>>96731456
>does HH have square thunder hammers?
I dunno, anon, does it?

>>96731569
Those aren't square.

>>96731456
Unlike the other anons, I get what you mean.
That style of hammer seems to have been in use by at least the Salamarders in 30k, and maybe that's the reason it became the default in 40k

>>96731575
Well neither are the 40k ones if you want to get that pedantic, as the rear is angled and the front has a separate striking surface and beveled edges.

>>96731403
if you actuallyed played the game you'd know phoenix terminators are a strong candidate for worst unit in 3rd.

They have 2 attacks instead of 4 attacks of good attacking terminators which is literally the worst there is.

They don't have any defenses at all, missing the EternalWarrior(1) of Red Butchers or Deathshroud or DW Companions or the FNP5+ of Gorgons / FNP 5+/4+ of Crimson Paladins.

They're already inferior stats when they have the charge (bad attacks + bad defense) and become more 100% useless if the enemy ever gets the charge or any fight lasts 2 turns, as then their pathetic breaching6+ weapons drop to dmg1 on top of it any time the enemy is the one charging.

Their half-WS gimmick doesn't come anywhere near compensating, they'd be below the curve if they had WS6 with the 2 attacks, as it is now they're a complete joke unit.

>>96727891 (OP)
Garro is a cool dude doesn't afraid of anything

>>96731293
Greed. The official reason is all the resin miniatures are manually made with very few molds or in some cases, a single one so there is a bottleneck on how many they can produce, there is a cost to mantain them, etc. That all goes out of the window when some dude in China can shat them out at a fifth of the price.

>>96731663
Hey dumbfuck get your victim complex out of you ass and read. I was saying it felt wrong seeing alpha legion Phoenix Terminators because they're not the best unit in the game, retard.

>>96729724
Finishing my centurion.

>>96731283
what do you stuff it with?

I also have one primed but half assembled that I want to hit the board. I know it's sub optimal but I love it and the mastadon

>>96730668
Leave it painted the upper torso and lower torso+legs as subassemblies as well as the gun. The ammunition belt is super in the way and the cogitator skull in the torso is inaccessible otherwise

>>96731293
Because people will pay it. When you bought units in single models or few model blisters, characters didn't really cost more than other models. Even early plastic characters were relatively inexpensive. But GW realized they can up the price and people keep paying it, so fuck it.

>>96729900
Ummm Based?
More pics? Battle report???

>>96731984
i thought this was mom's

>>96731293
buy from recasters if you really want the model or build up to 20 of your own from a tactical squad box

NYC comic con had a big warhammer booth so I bought a disintegrator set so I can do some kitbashes. I was gonna get jetbikes for centurions but I really don't like scimitars.

Ok, so I'm getting two MK2 assault boxes, magnetizing them for either destroyers or Alone and Forgotten+Blade of the Just HeroCraft build. Probably all Thunder Hammers, although I'll probably be modelling for the coolness factor too.
20 centurions, here I come.

>>96733554
Mix up the wargear for sure. Don't fuck up a perfectly fun autistic idea with faggotry. Give one guy a combi-grenade launcher. Lean into weird.

>>96733599
I'll see what buts fit from what I own and what poses look cool.

>>96732018
Tacticals, despoilers, whatever wants to be blown up by having a big superheavy target on their backs.

>>96729724
Scratchbuilding some minotaurs

>>96733632
Goddamn. That's impressive. I need 2 Minotaurs at least.

>>96733632
Extremely based

A mkIV jump pack on a mkII marine, acceptable or beyond the pale?

>>96734009
Packs are not armour specific. If MkIV can have MkII jump pack, they should go the other way as well.

>>96734044
Damn. I guess I'm gonna have to mix terminator arms to start bugging people.

>>96733543
>NYC comic con
I'm going tomorrow, anything of interest worth picking up that there selling (that i can't print)?

>>96731663
Thats the right answer to the wrong question. It should be stated more, though. Maybe 3A would've been fine? 3A at WS6. Too bad it's with an ass weapon that is conditional D2 and AP2 only on a 6+, so any amount of attacks it gets is pointless.
I wonder if Power Scythes are worse. Their job is to fight terminators, after all. Since they are wielded by Retinue squads

>>96734044
>>96734060
new tech (mk vi jump pack) working on an old operating system (mkii armor) would require special retro fitting. shit like that is a nightmare to program for.

>>96734158
Why doesn't new tech (MkIV armour) working on an old operating system (MkII jump pack) also require special retrofitting? Besides, why can't you have standardized programming and connections with backwards compatibility? We know backpacks, jump packs, and helmets get used in every which way in HH, not to forget all the old armour marks sporting both Mark IV and M37 pattern backpacks in 40k.

>>96734127
>that I can't print
No. I was turned on by a couple oop 40k kits but for 30k there's nothing special beyond buying something on the spot.

>>96734217
I'm not saying "don't mix your minis", I'm just chiming in to saying backwards compatibility makes sense in one direction (old tech on new OS), but doesn't necessarily mean the opposite (new tech on old OS).
In real life, you need a massive overhaul on the OS firmware to even understand new generations of technology. Lore wise, each armor mk is supposed to come with new, advanced systems. A new, more efficient jet pack tuned to higher spec controls needs special adaptation for an older OS to send signals.
t.HVAC repair man, companies can't keep their circuit boards working between years

were there any pictures from LVO?

>>96734263
I meant the old OS needs special adaptation.

>>96734263
That's assuming the OS is in the suit. Regular power packs also have thrusters in them for zero-g maneuvering and those get mixed and matched plenty. So clearly the suits are compatible (or easy to upgrade) or the operation of the pack is handled in the pack and the communication between the suit and pack is very basic.
>each armor mk is supposed to come with new, advanced systems
MkIII was just a modified and up-armoured II. V used the simpler construction of IV, but relied heavily on II and III components. VI used as much of IV as possible and had dual-circuitry to enable repairs with simpler parts. VII was a continuation of VI and VIII of the VII. Also considering how long MkII was in service and the fluff talks about early, mid and late variants, it's safe to say they did update the suits along the way.
>t.HVAC repair man, companies can't keep their circuit boards working between years
This is the military. They tend to standardize a lot and use old, reliable shit for as long as possible. They tend to prefer their stuff to work for decades in the hands of thousands of retards through wars.

>>96729724
Working on some MKII
Fuck im shit at this. My hand keeps shaking like I have parkinsons
Any tips to make my Iron Hands pop out more? Having full black with few details of steel seems dull? Still need to do a visor and clan company

>>96734323
IV's internal systems were supposed to make the suit overall more efficient along with the flat upgrades to gear.
If you're jump pack is making full use of the new capabilities plus any of it's own advancements, your century's old mkii by definition will be locked out of functions.
>standardized
I'm specifically talking (m)any company's inability to make their proprietary circuit boards function properly on their own machines.
You are essentially creating a MKV hodge podge by having to retrofit stuff to the MKII skeleton.

>>96734479
Use a bright colour for weapon casings/handles.

>>96734505
Yeah Brass casings for the boltrifles and plasma on the sergeant seem to be the move.

>>96734242
Noted, I'm assuming the place still smelled like buttered popcorn and sweat though, right?

>>96734479
Pigment wash!

Do it as your last step: mix weathering pigments with water and apply it with a brush to the recesses anywhere you think the model would collect dust naturally: for example the feet / legs, soft armor joints, and any place oil & grease might get dusty (weapons, backpack vents etc.). Once the pigment is dry you can come back with a damp brush and add / remove / feather blend it. It's a really easy and forgiving technique, almost impossible to screw up.

Pick a contrasting colour that works with your basing scheme. For Iron Hands I've seen really good paint schemes that use sandy beige or tan, pale grey / concrete dust, and red / orange / browns.

I forget the image source for this, some guy on instagram with a really nice dusty 30k Iron Hands force.

>going first
>set up for lightning strike scoring
>opponent seizes initiative for the lols
>actually gets a 6
>his positioning actually manages to significantly fuck me up
>concede during his t3 since most of my scoring units are dead
On the other hand, my praetor with combi-volkite and 4 learneans deleted a a 10-man tac squad and my 2 phraetus that survived an intercept by a faturnine dreadslop deleted an inductii + libby squad

>>96729724
Blackshield Moritat. So many characters I wanted to include but didn't have slots. Now they're wandering the stars.

>>96734828
Want them to be on the sands of isstvan 5 so some concret dust/ pale grey by their knees, and feet would be a good idea.
But super dusty like your pic where it looks like theyve been fighting in the sandbox seems like too much.

>>96735238
and it just occurs to me moritats arent command so they cant get paragon for +1BS, so they cap at BS7

>play 2v2 1e at my friend's place
>melee leviathan with grav just deletes an entire jetbike squad, then deletes a land raider in melee, then deletes an entire pyroclast squad then deletes another leviathan
leviathan, oh how I missed you

>>96734084
Abomination slop

>>96731663
Did not read just played cool and fun to paint models

>>96734137
>Since they are wielded by Retinue squads
Retinues =/= anti termi. These legion units existed before the heresy so they are tuned to fight non marines.

>>96735385
There's no reason a primarch's Retinue shouldn't be able to kill anything that could threaten a primarch, because otherwise what's the point of having a retinue

>>96731663
>They don't have any defenses at all,

I'm sorry, I thought this was /hhg/ the thread that's constantly bitching about the WS table

what about these optional WS6 termies facing guys who can barely hit them is bad again?

>>96733632
OK but sweep up those leaves you talented bastard

>>96735406
Terminators are semi gods to the galaxy at large, especially well trained ones. The biggest threat to Primarchs were abomination analogues. There wasn't a 1:1 equivalent you could like to termis. They didn't expect to have to fight other termis , it's just that simple.

>>96734479
Your hands are shaking because you're not used to the pressure in the hands. Don't grip the back brush too hard and always find a way to support your arms on yourself or the table. I don't shake while painting anymore since I've been painting for years. Good support is essential for good posture and ease of painting.

is there a best way to model the old FW weapons onto the new plastics?
it's been 3 years and it seems like the only options are carving the molded hands off of the plastic bolters or just getting ahold of the older style arms

>>96734137
The 'I have a scythe it means I only kill chaff' is one of those simplified noob takes that is only repeated by retards because it's sounds like such a flavorful stereotype. Actual comparison of Deathshroud vs Phoenix for terminator brawls, it's not even close, because Deathshroud don't just have 3-5 attacks each which also increases terminator-killing - but they also have Eternal Warrior which halves the effectiveness of all the things 'better than scythes' (thammer, pfist) suddenly making them dmg1 while still striking last without many attacks.

Phoenix spears are particularly TRASH because they'll never activate when leaving a transport (disordered charge leaving phoenix at dmg1 AP3 with 2 attacks for elites, truly the worst in the entire game) and terms are too slow to be the ones charging on foot. But Reaping still works even when tossing Shrouds from a landraider or aircraft)

The bonus scythe attacks happen at the initiative step, so when any unit hasn't paid for 100% thunderhammers and their cheaper claws/axes/spears guys knock even one term off prematurely so the shrouds are outnumbered, then the scythes go apeshit before the hammers/pfists get to swing and suddenly are all 5A. Or enemy terminators volleyfire into the shrouds before coming in with hammers, they let you and that's free 5A each at in3.

Really the 'weakness' of scythes is they do nothing in a challenge, but deathshroud can't be challenged as they've no sergeants, so it's not even a drawback. A character joining them can just run hammer and smash in challenges just fine.

>>96735418
Found a retard. The complaint of the WS table is that 1 point of WS gives 1 bonus to attack and 1 bonus to defense at same time. Guess what Phoenix terminators never get? Literally exactly that, you stupid fucking retard. Leaving them at 2 attacks dmg1 AP3 while not even having WS6 at all. As a bonus, WS7 characters treat Phoenixes exactly the same as regular WS5 terms but you're still 2 shit attack

>>96735581
Just use mk7 arms on nu-mk6

>>96732083
Did you keep the armor panels for the legs and arms separate?

>>96732202

I have a pic of setup, that's it. Dunno what I could offer with a battle report. Game went pretty well for me playing DarkMech.

Is there a way to avoid rebuying 40 tacticals, rhinos etc when you start a new army? I would like to paint and play with something else, then black armoured dudes. But rebuying the exact same models doesn't feel good.

>>96735995
Cool tokens

>>96736269
Either proont or find something secondhand if you'd like to do a second legion

>>96736269
>Doesn't buy hundreds of models from the same kit to build his legion

You are weak, like baby.

>>96734495
Future tech that works for thousands of years is a bit different from modern commercial HVAC.
>If you're jump pack is making full use of the new capabilities plus any of it's own advancements, your century's old mkii by definition will be locked out of functions.
Just like old packs on new suits would. And old packs on old suits would not have those functions to begin with. Considering Anvillus packs and various heavy weapons backpacks were made to be usable by all armour marks, and they got all manner of sensors and stuff on them, it's quite obvious they're able to communicate and provide said abilities to all suit marks.

>>96735995
I have never played either so any info you can give would be nice

>>96735296
> Then white scars
Beautiful
> The rest of the unpainted trash
Disgusting and shameful

>>96735610
>WS7 characters treat Phoenixes exactly the same as regular WS5 terms

how many WS7 characters are there anon

are they in the thread with us right now

>>96729724
First time painting a vehicle, branched out a bit on approach. Still have to do some cleanup and then the metallics + detail work, but I'm happy with how the hull and turret are looking.

>>96735281
Moritats are command, I'm pretty sure
You can paragon him and then use AAF to boost his BS

>>96736670
Paragon of Battle specifies only models with the Command unit sub-type can have it. Moritats only have the Specialist sub-type.

>>96736676
That's not confusing at all
I thought it was conferred from being a 'command' unit force org wise

>>96736682
Yeah the naming scheme and all the icons being specific space marine models on the new FOC was a horrible choice

I'm so indecisive, how did you choose your legion?

>>96736983
>word bearers 100k
weren't they one of the bigger legions?

>>96737007
The word bearers hid their numbers, it's believe they may have been as large as the ultramarines

>>96736983
I find that low number for the Death Guard to be unbelievable. I feel like they should be up around Iron Warrior levels.

>how did you choose your legion?
Just go Iron Warriors.

>>96736983
Unironically pick the one that hits closest to your mental illness
That's the reason why some people here collect multiple legions LMAO

>>96737040
is there a list?

>>96737052
Night Lords is schizophrenia
Emperor's Children is homosexuality

>>96737052
Hmm I got an idea by reading their attitudes in the first 3 HH books. EC tried to be the best on every field, but that caused them to feel envy at those few still above them, and contempt for those they had left behind.
People making lists often focus on 40k EC's debauchery and don't spare a thought at the driving force in 30k, obsession.

>>96736983
I chose blood angels because of 2 Queen songs. They are the most rock and roll legion imo. Charging out of transports blasting heat beams and swinging flaming swords is cool as fuck. Could take or leave jump packs though.

>>96737017
>it's believe they may have been as large as the ultramarines
This just makes calth even more embarrassing

>Autism Club
Dark Angels
Iron Warriors
Whtie Scars (gotta go fast)
Imperial Fists
Iron Hands
>Psychopathy
Night Lords
>OCD
Emperor's Children
Ultramarines
>Schizophrenia
Alpha Legion
>Depression
Raven Guard
>Anger Issues
World Eaters
Blood Angels

>>96731283
>>96733628
Based. I miss using my partybus in 40k.

>>96737101
AL is that condition when you keep lying and lying: Kleptomania :^)

>>96729724
Working on a techmarine,

only got 9 sallie models left to do then im calling my army complete for the time being

>>96737101
I think that Iron Hands have a form of anxiety which is a develop due to a perception of being weak which leads to self mutilation.
The Emperor's Children might too have a form of this except the origin of this comes from the legion's culture while the Iron Hand's anxiety come from Ferrus.

What happened to "accelerated plastic releases"? It's been some time now since the new ed launched.

>>96737094
I mean the whole point is that they could be "at full muster" at both Calth and Istvaan, so there was only the deplorables that needed purging at calth while all of Lorgar's favorites were at the dropsite.

>>96737264
You need something new to consume every other week?

>>96737311
>GW announces X
>GW doesn't deliver
>"Why?"
>Actually you're the problem here
Every time

>>96737264
I mean the melee kit took them an additional year to release.

>>96737094
Calth was only 50k WB
>>96737007
BL had them inflate the number because reasons

>>96737337
The last release was like 8 days ago, what are you crying for?

>>96737358
Why do you taking this personally?

And yet again you are deflecting: GW said they'd accelerate plastic releases and they haven't, why do you take issue with me saying it but not GW not delivering?

>>96737378
You're right. I let myself get baited by a child crying about wanting more plastic toys, I'm embarassed.

>>96736575
You should place the pintle on the lower hatch. That way it is retarded tank design, which is the imperial way

>>96736983
The mental illness comment is right. For RG, I was a moody teen goody two-shoes. Justice and all that. Got older and learned there is a difference from be nice and being kind. RG as freedom fighters that a sneaky and good natured but with LE DARK inside hit too well. I got over it, but still like RG from a more reasonable appreciation. More so Terran XIXth.

>>96737436
I don't much like the turret hatch mounted pintle gun and actually did consider using one of the hull hatches for the second tank. Didn't really get it to fit in a way I liked better. If the commander's hatch wasn't centered on the turret I think I'd like the arrangement more, but as it is it does weird things to the silhouette.
But I intend on using the pintle HB so I'm modeling it regardless.

>>96737452
>>96737040
What mental illness do the Salamanders have

>>96737670
Pyromania.

anyone got the link to the books and novels pdfs? Also the audio books if possible? Cheers

>>96729724
working on another techpriest, with a big tank of combat stims to does up the servitors with.

>>96737670
Pyromania
they're also black but that's a disability, not an illness

Show me your techmarines.

>>96737738
Being black is a chronic condition. Being a nigger is a mental illness, but it's the sons of horus and world eaters suffer from it

>>96737670
Besides the obvious pyromania I'd say they also have a saviour complex. With their over-eagerness towards sacrificing themselves in some heroic last stand.

>>96737787
Make me

>>96737861
If you don't have any techmarines to show, you'll fail all your vehicle status clearing rolls by 1 next game. Them's the breaks.

>>96737985
That's okay

>>96737985
But anon, that happens to me every game :(

>>96737738
>>96737799
I don't like you calling Salamanders niggers
>>96737839
It could be a form of protective anxiety

>>96738077
How about Space Niggas?

>>96738087
I prefer water melon munchers

>>96728984
>not mk6

Broken Helix Clone applies to Command, right? You don't get the stat penalty but you still can't react and get 5+?
I'm toying around with AaF+Clone. Although Blade of the Just in the obvious choice.

>>96738115
No, you don't, because they don't have line or vanguard to replace with the broken Helix rule

>>96738252
FUCK

>>96736983
because their 40k successors (crimson fist)

>wageslaving going poorly
>only energy left at end of day is browsing internet
>sniping kits off ebay is only hobby between shifts for a 6 months
>probably have enough infantry marines for two full armies or maybe 3 smaller point armies
now that jobs don't exist in my state, should i start building dioramas with all these guys? i think i bought a bag of beakie helmets at one point, so piles of dead inductii is possible

>>96736983
vibes, mostly. if you have trouble choosing between a few different legions, I suggest painting up some test models to see which scheme you prefer painting

>>96738397
Convert up what you got and do basing all the while saving up for a printer. I've been where you are, it sucks but one day things will be better even though it doesn't seem like it. Patience is a skill, the suffering is part of getting better at it.

So how is 3.0 since launch? Is everything fixed or are people still sour?

>>96738589
A lot was fixed but not everything, many options remain missing.
The rulebook is still terribly organized (did you know that the ability for Command models to selectively tank shots is hidden in the middle of the shooting phase rules and NOT in the section that talks about wound allocation?).
Legacies + Sloptica have helped a lot of marines.

>>96737151
>condition when you keep lying and lying: Kleptomania
Saw what you did there Alpharius

>>96737570
I was just messing with you. It looks fine, anon. Yay

>>96738525
>printer
that's it's own project for sure, i don't exactly have good temperature control right now in the one space i could put it

Bro I'm in Ecuador for the week and I just can't post pics at all. Says something about range abuse or whatever. Idk if other places are restricted like that

>>96738589

Much of the existing jank is still there, it would much benefit from a reasonably lengthy FAQ, but the new PDF rules have filled a lot of the gaps and are pretty stylish. I'm optimistic at least, but scoring and missions are still some of the weak areas and Blackshields have added a hell of a lot of different ways to get VPs, so time will tell if any of them are broken.

>>96738589
it's still fundamentally garbage at the basic level, both unbalanced and not fun to play. Terrain rules are terrible, movement and melee rules are terrible, WS chart is still horrible, wound allocation is still horrible especially with precision abuse, the new special rules like crit are massively imbalanced, reactions to shoot/fight 2-3 times per game round are still ridiculous and broken, 4 turn game length change sucks cocks. The beta challenge and status systems are still janky and shitty in current implementation. Massive imbalances between weapons (power swords essentially worthless while thunderhammer still dominates, core guns like plasma, melta and heavy bolters and missile launchers all largely worthless. New disintegrators worthless too.)

Legions traits and unique units and reactions horrendously out of sync on balance as well, but it'd be easier to house-rule those than to house-rule fixing the broken basic framework of the game in 3rd edition.

>>96736983
raven guard because i like the helmets

>>96738589
My biggest issue, wargear cuts, cannot be fixed but with legacies I can make do easily enough. I just don't have an opponent.

>>96738589
I won't lie and say there's nothing of value there, there's some things I do really dig. But it really is overall just a massive pile of shit from the formatting and the text itself to the rules and profiles.

My group just backported what we liked into our rules and are effectively ignoring what's happening right now besides the occasional neat plastic release. Fingers crossed for Vorax sometime. But hey, people can play what they like. If some folks really do love 3.0 then more power to 'em.

>>96738589
End of turn objective scoring is inherently garbage as well. They already learned years ago and improved 40k by changing scoring to require a unit alive on objective at beginning of your turn so two people aren't playing whack-a-mole each tapping it once every single turn like a game of dance dance revolution.

Line/Vanguard is very stupid and gamey. Games never feel like actual missions or battles, just "stand on 3 pieplates and check if your units have magical Line or not" - and they don't even work for the intended purpose. Justaerin terminators hurls your unit off an objective? 4 VP. Your unit steps backwards off the objective when justaerin move within 12"? Justaerin score 1 VP for pushing the magic button instead of 4.

It's not worth buying any of the paper products, 2028 they'll release HH4 and trash the horribly broken rules of HH3 to give the CEO justification to sell you 30 more badly written DLC books with 3 units in each.

The physical models still are neat, but there's nothing good about the rules.

Interesting how time of day changes response, when I said I found 3ed unmotivating the other day I got chimped out at, now everyone is like "yeah it sucks".
Otoh the herohammer black shield list is making me a little thoughtful.

>>96739047
Every legion can use them, I think the only legion that "didn't like" beakies were IW and maybe Sallies? And they still used some

>>96739181
ok thank im still new to 30k

>>96739099
>Line/Vanguard is very stupid and gamey. Games never feel like actual missions or battles, just "stand on 3 pieplates and check if your units have magical Line or not
Genuinely I think this is the biggest sign of someone being a nogame, I've tried to get this to happen and i can't keep myself from getting charged turn 1/2 and things devolving into a slog to control points. This is either a list building issue, a terrain issue, or both.

>>96729724
IH Mastadon party bus I am to scared to do the final weathering on

>>96729724
>>96739495
and some IH inductii + forge father conversion to start riding with it.

Alone and Forgotten by itself is great, but allying in a freeblade knight for even more Donut Steel and some actual anti-tank/anti-mook sounds even better.
Or ally in a mortifactor for some contemptors

>>96739518
If you play AaF with allies you deserve to have your minis taken away.

>>96738589
Converting HH rules to 40k 4th edition with some tweaks. 3.0 is kind of dog shit. The books are formatted terribly and some of the new addition s and scoring are ass. Reactions I’m still iffy on.

>>96739542
You're so boring

>>96738645
a lot of newer printers have vat heaters now, so that's not really a problem anymore

>>96739611
well, cool beans. resolution has also doubled since the last time i was tempted to get one. i'll be thinkin about it

Just played a game of 3rd. RG vs IF. Won 32-26.

I seized and my eagle came in turn 1. I risked a strike mission with my storm eagle full of Deliverers to instead dump the better missiles I to a vindi and killed it for first strike.

Black Shield Reaper allies a bit strong for d3 vp on kills. Though I only had a plasma pred and Moritat. The pred scattered 5" ever single shot. The Moritat finished off two units for 4vp total in the game.

Opponent brought 2 Scorpius and they missed spectacularly every shot , barely getting anything thanks to barrage 2.

My eagle came back on with a 4 and my Deliverers targeted his augur squad with praetor and mos. The augurs died and the MoS tanked all the fists on its invul. Then my fist Deliverers proceeded to whiff spectacularly each round.

Pollux breacher blob deep struck and just couldn't be shifted so they anchored a point all game. (Thanks plasma pred).

Destroyers did destroyer things.

Overall it a was a fine game. I got really lucky with my eagle turn 1 and used rhinos to hide Tacs from vindis. I just maintained my line units better.

>>96739542

That Oath is perfect to use as an allied detachment, what are you on about.
Primary with allies is a little bit jankier, but I think it beats having nothing but 28 characters.

>>96739161
It's the difference between the people who play and are tired of your shit and the people who don't play and just come here to complain, like you

>>96740176
He specifically was talking about AaF with allied knights which is fucking retarded

>>96727891 (OP)
Is it legal for a model with psyker trait to have automata trait as well? Was wondering if i could use both biomancer rage and overcharge reactors cybertheurgy in a Blackshield FiW/PotL force with admech allied det

>>96740208
How

>>96740384
Alone and forgotten except by these big fuckoff knights, ok

>>96740397
You're just an idiot

>>96739235
So stupid honestly has to be an oversight

>>96740208
>>96740397
>>96739542
>blackshield knights helping blackshield marines
Actually kino AF, get some taste fag

>someone left their unpainted sicaran and a rhino under a table at the LGS
>it's been sitting behind the front desk for 5 months
why do people do this?

>>96739693
Sneaky brids represent

>>96740575
He's dead jim, what was his is yours now.

>>96739429
it sounds like a skill issue on your part, wtf.

>>96729724
TS delegatus and some bits for a siege squad

>>96740684
Good job splicing the axe

>>96740764
There's actually a big gap I have to stuff yet.
I also have to do it again.

Are pauldrons considered as interchangeable as helmets and backpacks? I'm looking to exchange some on a certain MkVI character for some spare ones from an unused Decurion.

>>96729724
Slowly working my way through a xiphon.

>>96740924
Apollo's or Hotdog's?

>>96740771
I'm sorry, you're right. Make like a Medusan Immortal ASAP.

LORE QUESTION!

I know we've gone over this a few times, but I wanted to discuss the proposed roles of the Primarchs and Legions in a hypothetical, functioning Imperium. I don't think I've ever read a satisfying answer for certain Legions. Here's what I've got:

>DA
No fucking idea.
>EC
Arts, humanities, promotion of culture
>IW
Architecture, civil planning
>WS
Exploration? Expansion?
>SW
Execution force
>IF
All things Terra
>NL
Judiciary and correction
>BA
No fucking idea, maybe an "official face" of the Imperium?
>IH
Technology, ambassadors to Mars
>WE
No fucking idea, maybe a return to gladiators? Bread and circuses?
>UM
General administration
>DG
Health department? kek
>TS
Records, libraries, education
>LW
Law enforcement
>WB
Propaganda, information logistics
>SM
Craftsmen, trades, possibly family services
>RG
No fucking idea
>AL
Stasi, creating controlled opposition conflicts

A few are completely baffling. Then again, it's not like all of this was hammered out by one dedicated author. Thoughts?

>TQ
Constitutional Carry

>>96741118
The DA are the first. It seems like their role is basically to be "the best" marines, like the ones that can be trusted with DAOT shit and be sent to do things the others can't do. They're sent to exterminate forgeworlds that have become a problem with archaeotech that no one else has heard of. The DA are problem solvers, an execution force of a different type from the space wolves, because they need to hit places so fast and hard that the secret of what happened never gets out.

>>96741118
Angron had the power of empathy, and would've been a great diplomat and force for justice. The WE we got isn't the WE that was planned, he could literally feel the emotions of those around him but the nails fucked it up.

>>96741118
Their function would have been fertilizer, after the custodes iced them. Anything else was delusion. They are weapons of war, not statesmen and poets.

>>96741118
Emperor planned to euthanize all of them after the conquering was done, at best he'd keep some for border patrol or a sort of emperor-only army, assuming he hasn't figured out how to make more custodes or just make a new breed of superhuman for that purpose. Just like Thunder Warriors, Marines are designed to die after their purpose is fulfilled. As for the Primarchs, they're the only beings for whom the Emperor seemed to show any sort of feelings towards, even if they were extremely subdued. I imagine he wouldn't cry too much about eithanizing them either

>>96741387
He had to literally cut off half his soul to remove his loving side to allow him to fight horus

>>96741415
Horus was a special occasion. For some reason he started having regrets and fond memories of playing catch with Horus as a kid and teaching him to ride a bike which made him hold back, meanwhile he treated every single other son like shit. What's that Curze? Painful seizures and death visions? figure it out lmao. Mortarion? I'm literally going to trick you and shit on everything you live for to get an easy recruit for my war. Angron? lol. Perturabo? Double lol. didn't seem to complain much when his sons were killing each other, or when ordering two of the primarchs to be executed and erased form history. Worst part is, he feels bad abotu killing horus and can't do it... but he had no trouble ordering his armies and other sons to do it. Let's say that by some weird turn of events, Russ gets Horus dead to rights. All his sons are dead, he's trapped and wounded, all Russ has to do is finish him off. Do you think Emperor would teleport across the galaxy and go "no russ don't do it I still love him?" do you think he gave explicit orders to his armies not to kill Horus because he'd feel bad? No, he just said "kill Lupercal, he's the Arch-Traitor". In an ideal world Horus gets bagged before the Heresy even reaches Terra and the Emperor doesn't even meet him ever again, what then?

>>96741193
Huh. Wouldn't that bump elbows with IH and SM?

>>96741210
Fuck, I didn't know that. It makes sense that his initial bouts might have skewed what resistance he mighht have had to the Nails, if he's surrounded by thousands of bloodthirsty spectators.

>>96741252
>>96741387
Hear me out: Let's say in an idyllic Imperium, the Great Crusade successfully reunites say, ~50% of the lost worlds. It's good enough to slow things down and consolidate what you've gained. As you're building things up, you restructure the Legions (or have Guilliman do it) to the chapter system AS they suffer losses, possibly with a slower replacement system. Half the Legion administrates their respective "barony" and half provides support elsewhere for their respective noncom roles.

At the same time, the Alpha Legion (the Omegon half) is involved in every nook and cranny of the Imperium at large; rooting out potential insurrections, drawing in as many revolutionaries as possible, co-opting the leadership, and steering the rebellion into open conflict. The Imperium responds with Guard assisted by the local Astartes and puts the rebellion down. Wash, rinse, repeat in the next sector for the next scheduled Legion.

All in all, you've shut down any REAL internal threat, taken out those most likely to try again, and your military stays sharp in case of a real emergent threat.

>>96741435
You think he opened himself up to Horus because Horus was meant to directly inherit the throne?

>>96741574
In your "idyllic imperium" the work is not even halfway done. Emps true goal all along was making the human webway where humanity woudl be free from every threat including chaos, and basically turn into Dark Eldar without the torture dependency. The whole conquest thing was just a play to hold back the threats until his webway was done. Let's say the Heresy never happens, MAgnus necver shits the bed, and the project finishes on schedule and on budget. Emps would probably relocate humanity to a "human Comorragh" and begin an eugenics program to make everyone a psyker and let humanity fully develop. Don't ask how that would work since psykers in Comorragh are a big nono, maybe his presence alone would act as a shield. I don't think he would take the Astartes into the Webvway, in fact it's likely he wouldn't even take most of humanity into the Webway. He would probably keep them otuside and jsut sue them to eliminate any threats in the materium that could get into the webway, and then when the milky way ends up with marines as the only sentient beings left alive, he closes the door in their faces. Possibly kills them all too to avoid them figuring out how to open the door again

Master of mankind has been the worst thing to happen to the lore since primaris

can't wait for the ZM rules, i want to make a 1000 points AoF Catas as proto space hulk

>>96741952
>12 terminators tearing through 60 marines with a faturnine praetor + dread final boss battle
holy kino

>>96741714
Why?

>>96739181
Stereotypes exist for a reason. Black people stealing bikes and raven guard wearing beakie armour.

>>96737032
DG mostly recruited from Barbarus only, so it makes sense they had relatively low numbers.

>>96741952
>ZM + AoF

Isn't that basically just Kill Team 30k at this point? Just need a Venerable Dread that goes in Command slots

>>96742037
That's called a saturnine Centurion

Late to the party, but how are the Blackshield rules looking? Skimmed over them and they look like they have personality, though most of the rules read like "lose line and gain a gimmicky way to score". Also, some rules say "you can't take this if you already have the other rule" but the other rule doesn't say that, so you just take the one with the "exclusion" rule first and you take the one you can't "already have" second, does that work? Also, do oaths work on the named character? Can you make him Aberrant or an Automata?
Also, did anons run the numbers on Weapons of Desperation? I remember some of them actually being mathematically superior to bolters in 2.0

>>96729724
90% of putting together this foregelord was trying to figure out what to put in the right hand since his pistol was already holstered

>>96742411
You can always add another pistol and say the holstered one is like... a power drill

>>96742427
then where does he holster his bolt pistol??

>>96742575
In his bussy, obviously.

>>96742575
Mag locks into his robo leg

>>96738652

All the good Ecuadorians left for the US, all that's left is a bunch of pricks.

>>96736535

That's too broad a question lol

>>96741629
None of which springs up overnight, and none of which stays in shape indefinitely. We also don't know just how long Emps needed to finish his grand project. In the meantime, the Imperium would need running and the Primarchs and Legions are in the best spot to run it.

Hell, if he's going into the Webway and fucking up realspace, why not have sufficient forces to deal with Eldar in either side?

We also don't know if or how permanent a solution that would be. Is Chaos meant to burn out like a passing wildfire, and mankind is to emerge from the Warp and reclaim (again) the galaxy? Or sit in there forever? In either case, people poop and poop has to go somewhere. Perterabo can fix that. The poop.

>>96742784
>poop
Morty
>piss
Perty

>>96742784
Then why did he ONLY use custodes for his war on the webway? Sruely a legion or two of Astartes would be useful in what was possibly the most important battle in the history of the imperium? And why didn't he tell his sons about the webway project? He was intentionally keeping thme in the dark because he never planned ot take them along

>>96741387
>Marines are designed to die after their purpose is fulfilled
Not really. They're stable and have very long lives unlike the Thunder Warriors. Maintaining a warrior elite personally loyal to him that strike out of nowhere from the Imperial webway seems like an ideal way to protect the Imperium without maintaining gigantic armies everywhere. Sigismund correctly deduced that even after the Crusade is won they'd still have to defend what they have and nothing would really change for marines.

>>96743003
nta, but he didn't. The War in the Webway forces included Custodes, Sisters of Silence, and a fuckton of Mechanicum troops and Titans.
Basically the factions already involved in its construction.
The ONLY legion around when Magnus broke the seals and the war started was the Imperial Fists, and they were needed to protect the Solar system.
The others, like BA or WS, came back to Terra years later when it was already lost and the gate closed.

>>96734828
Does this hold on to the model or should I seal it in? If yes... How?

>>96743019
>very long lives
That's only relative to the thunder warriors. Relative to custodes and primarchs, they're short-lived. Sigismund had no idea of the Emperor's ture intentions, in fact he got them so wrong he founded the "worship the emperor as a god" chapter despite seeing the living emperor claim he's not a god and shouldn't be worshiped as such.
>>96743022
You're telling me there were NO marines handy to defend Terra. And he didn't think to tell MAgnus "hey I'm working on webway shit so be careful with your mind wifi" instead of the cryptic "You know sorcery? The thing I genetically designed you to excel at? it's actually... LE BAD"

>>96743039
>You're telling me there were NO marines handy to defend Terra
as said, the IF were there for Terra and the Sol system, but they were excluded from the webway war
>he didn't think to tell
Magnus, like other primarchs, was already heavily compromised since the start by a Chaos God. Do you really think BIg E didn't notice all the Tzeench shit going on in Prospero? Magnus was told to stop fucking around, and he doubled down even after Nikaea.

And the Webway was a closely guarded secret. Even without the HH, the implications could have triggered a civil war once the Navigators and other factiones realize they're going to be thunder warrior'd. They were already trying to stop it (see The Path of Heaven)

>>96743075
>He killed the thudner warriors
>He killed (well, tried to) kill the Angel
>He killed two of his sons without much issue
>He was planning to kill the navigators
>He intentionally kept the Priamrchs and Marines out of his webway project
Yeah, I'm sure he was planning on bringing the marines along and having a big picnic in the webway with them, he was just waiting until it was done to tell them with cake and confetti

>>96743003
>Then why did he ONLY use custodes for his war on the webway?
HH fans, like 40k fans, just obviously don't actually read any of the published stuff so lets recap. 3 legions were badly massacred at Istvaan V. The Dark Angels were ordered away to the Eastern Fringe and bogged down fighting the Night Lords. The Blood Angels were similarly ordered away and attacked at Signus. The Ultramarines were ordered away and ambushed at Calth. Later, the Ruinstorm badly hampered the Loyalists ability to travel so the were stuck at Ultramar. The Wolves suffered badly at Prospero. The Fists, while relatively intact are busy dealing with Horus's advance basically alone.

So yes, they commit their best troops to the Webway while the Fists and what's left of the Wolves deal with the rest as best they can.

>And why didn't he tell his sons about the webway project?
The concept of a classified project is baffling to you? You really think the Primarchs who were senior military commanders didn't understand the concept of "need to know"? You think those same Primarchs didn't keep secrets from others, including the Emperor?

>>96743090
It's a matter of trust. He trusted random mechanicus bottom-rung techpriests, every single SoS and Custodes, Malcador, etc over the Primarchs. You really think he's going to intentionally keep them in the dark about his plans for the future of the imperium if he intends to have them run the imperium in the future?

>>96743086
We don't know what he planned or not. That's all your conjecture. The Thunder warrior were unstable and disobedient so had to go. Without Horus going rogue and marines remaining loyal there's really no objective need to get rid of them. As far as the Primarchs are concerned most of the have many more talents than mere killing. Getting rid of some of the more unstable ones like Angron is plausible but others? Not really.

I mean Thunder Warriors are a great example. First they stopped producing them at all. Then attrition started to whittle them down. MTt. Arrarat was just where their last remnants were killed after they no longer presented a serious threat. Meanwhile he puts a Primarch in power over his entire military if the intent is to get rid of them all. Recruitment is still going on full time. Another Primarch has power over a full 500 world sector. That just doesn't look like "I'm getting rid of these people"

>>96743109
Primarchs were tools for conquest. Nobody ever told them different or that they were going to rule anything but their legion worlds.
And that's what actually makes Horus chimp out.

>>96743109
>It's a matter of trust.
That's not how classified info works and you know it. The Primarchs themselves would known this given that they're all 200 years old at this point and served at the top of his government for most of it. You treat them like they're 5 year olds who need constant assurance.

>>96743138
>You treat them like they're 5 year olds who need constant assurance
I mean, if the shoe fits

>>96743144
Well, that's a separate argument. "The Emperor wanted to kill them all" is not quite the same as "These childish morons need to be constantly reassured and should have been told"

>>96743144
Note that the Emperor was always on top of them during the 200 years of the Great Crusade.
After Ullanor they were left unsupervised and they rebelled in less than a decade (Lorgar and Angron notwithstanding )

>>96743184
4/10 were a lost cause even before the Heresy. Well, maybe more if you count stuff like Nurgle talking to Morty since the beginning or just treat Curze as a write-off

>>96743207
Curze likely would have been content existing as an imperial Boogeyman if his visions didn't show him he would fall from grace, for as much of a whiny manchild as he was he was surprisingly complacent

>>96743109
>It's a matter of trust.

>>96743245
surprisingly on point

Huh...

>>96743296
His missing the can of beer, the overgrown lawn to mow, and the neighbor with a similar lawnmower to chat with

>>96743296
Eyesore

>>96743296
>lazy fan edit/conversion from a primaris outrider
>vs.
>actual GW production model
It's the same picture.

Which built-in weapon for Contemptor fists is usually more consistent? Just assembling this nigga, although only magnetizing main weapons and the havoc launcher

>>96743356
it really depends on what you want them for, but the fist weapons are a bit of an afterthought

>>96743320
>Imperial Jetbikes are all but extinct in 40k.
>The Dark Angels are the only Imperials left and possess the last remaining one.
>... And the Custodes, who naturally have thousands of them.
>... And house Escher, who can build their own.
>... And Cawl can build brand new Jetbikes and hand's them out to who ever he feels like.
>So apart from the Custodes, gangers on Necromunda, and potentially every single Space Marine chapter in the galaxy, the Dark Angels possess the last Imperial Jetbike in the Galaxy.

>>96743376
Sammael's bike is not the "last Imperial jetbike," it's the "last Mark 14 jetbike known to exist". And even then it was sus how the thing keeps coming back no matter how damaged it gets.

>>96743392
Those artpieces, along with many other aspects of Rogue Trader, was rendered non-canon as the game was further developed.
Your argument is in bad faith, and I wish everything bad to befall your house this day.

>>96743423
Completely sane thing to say when arguing about plastic toys lore that even the creator company doesn't give a fuck

>>96743423
Corvex did not exist in RT. Its fluff has remained consistent from 4e to modern day. You tried and failed.

I'd love to talk to the people responsible for allowing Tacticals and Despoilers to be released as the same base point cost.
Hm yes, of course 2 melee attacks is exactly equal to 3 attacks at range, especially when those 2 melee attacks are most likely going to be 4+ instead of 3+ to hit! This is brain genius behavior.
For 100 points I can either put out 5 wounds (that still need to be saved) into WS4 T4
or I can do 10 from 24 inches away! Everything else about the two units are literally exactly the same!
Come the fuck on
I think at 75pts we'd see some Despoilers (could buy power weapons/pistols to increase the relative value of the unit in melee)

Unless I'm missing something with Weapons of Desperation, can Praetors, Centurions and Optaes not take any weapon upgrades because you're forced to exchange your bolter and bolt pistol?

If there is some wording somewhere in the rules about what takes precedent in a must vs may upgrade scenario?

>>96743480
>Completely ignoring bolt pistols
>Completely ignoring special weapons

>>96743520
I don't have it before me but I'm pretty sure the rule specifies that it takes place after any weapons have been exchanged with prior options

>>96743480
Despoilers are twice as good as tacticals in melee
And shooting three times means shit if you are locked in combat

>>96743458
First sentence of the middle two indicates that the ability to build jetbikes is lost. I agree that doesn't mean Sammael's has to be the literal only one left, but "Mankind has lost the secrets of building these anti-gravitic craft" in reference to generic jetbikes is pretty unambiguous. So Custodes can still have their massive stockpile of relics, but Escher and regular Marines getting them is ridiculous.

>>96743480
No you see despoilers also hit on the enemy's turn so the actually have 4 attacks, and if they're locking something that doesn't want to bee in melee they're doing much better than a squad of tacticals!

No but seriously, i think that's the main idea behind them being equal, it's just it doesn't really work out that way ingame

>>96736471
I have no printer and not paying 50% of plastic cost from print farms targted at selling stuff to western customers. Not happy, but at least a quick and clear response.

>>96736520
I wished. If I was a "baby" I could think that as soon as I am 30-40, it will get better. Now I am that, and I actualy have less hobby funds (aunts/uncles, grandparents died, no more christmas, names day presents as I am the adult etc ).

>>96743563
>Escher
Anti-grav tech has not gone anywhere, it's used on anything from space ships to servo-skulls and grav-chutes. In the bottom snippet it says that the gravitic drives likes of which are found on the Corvex are lost (to the Techpriests). Doesn't mean someone can't jury-rig poor quality grav-plates onto a jet engine and hope nothing explodes. That does not mean it's worthy of military anymore than a Hilux with a twin-23mm is superior to a Humvee with a fiddy.
>regular Marines
Rediscovered tech and stockpiles of relics.

>>96743600
well necromunda is special. A bunch of Golden Age biologist feminists and Dudes running a damaged STC PC and Printer with no ventilation , managed to not just retrograde, but also improve on the thunder warrior program.

>>96743527

The old one might have, but this version at least seems to leave it ambiguous. "All models with the Blackshields trait in a detachment with this oath of moment must exchange all bolters and bolt pistols for a weapon from the Weapons of Desperation list".

I would personally read that as not allowing you to swap your bolter for a plasma gun or something before applying this rule, since swapping specifically for a Reclaimed weapon is mandatory, but I could see how you'd read it the other way. Throw it on the list of cool rules that still need an FAQ, I think.

>>96743626
>necromunda is special
Sure, though in various novels they do mention civilian anti-grav vehicles on civilized and hive worlds. Of course one can ignore it as BL, but it is what it is.

I wish they made HH models in metal

>>96743626
>necromunda is special.
Necromunda lives in an alternate reality of 40k. There's so much lore breaking shit going on, that in normal 40k the IF or the AdMech would have burned it to the ground long ago

I have a question, because I bougth the rule book for 3.0, and I know late news, and there are no rules for units in the rule book. Do I need to buy like a codex or are those online on the GW site?

>>96743626
It really isn't, grav tech is cheap as shit in civilian tech and on high end hive worlds it's described like coruscant (albeit that's from Dan Abnett, whose understanding of 40k canon is...questionable). Even the land speeders and cudtodes grav vehicles are still produced in 40k, it's just jetbikes that are for some reason impossible to produce. My headcanon for why is that the technology to make a smaller vehicle able to exhibit true anti gravity (not the ground punching of the primaris stuff, or the literally a jet engine of the escher) relied on an STC lost during the heresy snd the hackjob tech they use in 40k either isn't powerful enough or can't be sized down enough for a space marine jetbike.

>>96743653
Hydraphur has a family of tech savants that produce golden age era wyrm assasins. What they do not know, that those are scaled. So what they produce is like Gothic scale ship of an actual thing.

>>96743682
There is more planets like that. Ultramar not excluded. Fenrisians are gene smithed by their super advanced ancestors. As are catachans.

>>96743734
I don't know why they would be hard to produce. The custodes enough to mount EVERY brother on one. and Cawl can just conjour whole starship fleets from thing air. What is one or two classic looking jetbikes to him. Heck we are talking about a setting where the M.General is a hab blocked size entity, that almost never leaves Mars.

>>96743526
>I think at 75pts we'd see some Despoilers (could buy power weapons/pistols to increase the relative value of the unit in melee)
In other words
>if the unit could get special weapons for the same price as a base tactical squad it would go a long way towards unit equity
strange definition of completely ignoring, friend.

>>96743480
One unit is for dakka, the other is for krumpin

>>96743663
why?

>>96743648
If you have exchanged your bolter for another weapons when taking the unit you don't have a bolter to exchange anymore

>>96743798
why not seekers that can do all of those things. Spaming a ton of 5 msu seekers . Especialy if your group is cool and ignores line/venguard.

>>96743803
metal models are cool. feel like proper models. Plus when you buy metal models, you start thinking about 80s, when stuff was fun. Gran wasn't dead and you could buy a blister with 3-4 models (3 for command section and 4 for regular line men) every day, just buy not buying a burger and soda. How fun it was to read WD, where Adrian Wood tells you "I know there is GW terrain, but it is expensive. Here is how I made gorka morka terrain from trash".

>>96743741
>RT fluff: Imperium likes primitive worlds with harsh conditions to breed hardy stock of people
>nu fluff: they were all genetically engineered to be like that millennia before the Imperium

>>96743883
>Pic
>Intelligent design was able to utterly mog a million years of evolution (and begin the process of redoing it) in less than 500 years
>This is an own to intelligent design

>>96743883
What the fuck is this supposed to mean, it should be backwards. Pugs are man's testament to playing scientist while wolves are aesthetically the most resilient and haven't changed much morphologically.

>>96743883
hat off to you anon being super ancient. But that is 2ed lore. I like to think that early 90s is still and hip (like me). But lets be real here. the imperium is brutal, grim/dark. And it is a mix of various periods from our history. But they are very high tech. The basic military weapon is a lasgun that can be loaded by throwing the powerpack in to a fire place. Even worker slaves and line soldiers get augumantation and limb/sight replacements. Crude, but those are things that work.

>>96743734
40k marines got so retarded by the codex astartes they cant even use plentiful civilian tech used by drooling hive scum

>>96743827

You pick wargear options all at once, if the wargear rules say, in essence "you must replace your bolter and bolt pistol with X" but also "you may replace with Y" then the mandatory part takes precedence and you can't swap out for a plasma pistol by saying "I built my unit, swapped out all the relevant guns and then applied the oath to it".

I agree it probably should allow you to take other weapon swaps, but I don't think it does right now. Still a pretty good Oath, though, huge pile of Assault status guns for free.

>>96743829
When chain bayonett rules were decent in 2.0 tacs could do both

>>96743836
Yeah fair I do not like metal models personally because of the chipping of the paint job, I much prefer resin for the occasional hero model for the details plastic cannot do.

I also like old WD when it actually had value and was fun. It was already going down hill in the 80s my friend, everything has slowly gone downhill since the 1950s. Especially during the 60s with the boomers.

>>96743970
Correct, man playing God never works out well. Humanity's hubris playing with science. What a mess.

>>96743978
>that is 2ed lore.
Literally in RT rulebook.

>>96743741
NU-lore is shit and not canon.

>>96743829
what are you talking about. Seekers have 1 WS4 attack and can't take melee weapons beyond the sergeant. How is that going to krump anything

>>96743988
>You pick wargear options all at once
No you don't. Special options have always applied after taking the unit's wargear
Every legion specific armory entry that lets you exchange a power weapon, or a fist or a plasma gun or whatever, requires you to take those things from the units options before they can be exchanged. There's no reason to think this would work differently.
Even if they happened all at once, there's no reason to believe the mandatory exchange would take precedence when you have the option to not have a bolter to begin with.

>>96743829
>if your group is cool and ignores line/venguard
why even play this game if you are going to ignore the core rules that all missions play around?

>>96743458
Thank you for proving my point and backing up my claim with images as well.

>>96744027
>if you ask me, antibiotics were a mistake

t. brainworm

>>96744114
because the missions suck, hope this helps anon

>>96743392
OK but is it a MkXIV "Bullock" or

>>96744181
is it one of these with the pointy front and the aquila

>>96744176
Shoot at each other until everything dies is not better and it gets old really quickly

>>96744229
smashing models into each other is more fun than spamming line units that stand around imaginary circles on the table

>>96743829
>Seekers
>Krunpin
We're reaching levels of Nogames previously thought impossible

>>96744181
>>96744185
Before FW dickbikes, pic related was supposed to be the standard imperial jetbike in the HH

>>96744257
All but 1 mission last edition relief on you keeping at least 1 line unit around at the end of the game to stand around on an imaginary circle

I had 10 cataphractii for blaackshields I built before the new rules dropped and I don't care much about them anymore but I liked the sergeants so I guess they can get promoted

>>96744274
last edition didn't have good missions either. hope this helps

>>96744181
Even Custodes rode those. It's funky how it doesn't have handlebars.

>>96744274
If you don't realize the point is to stop your opponent from capturing objectives while defending your own, I think your IQ might be high enough to play this game. Or go outside without a minder.

>>96744345
Increasing point discrepancies and/or screening off objectives in progressive scoring scenarios are also their own forms of point denial
You're doing the same fuckin thing just throughout the game instead of right at the end

>>96744027
you unironicaly paint your models? I have a set of rhinos and two predators still in use not even base coated (well one is in green) , unpainted.
I salut your hobby engagment.

>>96744114
Would you want to play a game in a world that your friend can not score or do anything, because GW decided to make tanks non scoring or all mounted units?

>>96744328
Every mission from the entire history of wargaming that isn't just strictly 1:1 kill points boils down to the same "keep my [scoring unit] alive while killing/denying my enemies [scoring unit]" game plan
The core formula hasn't changed in 50 years

>>96744372
So stop them. Interact with your opponent. There's more ways than ever to stop a unit from scoring, from statuses to charging. As it turns out, controlling objectives while stopping your opponent from doing the same wins you the game better than trying to pretend you play by yourself and your opponent doesn't exist. oh wait, but that is what you do.

> David Attenborough Voice
...and here it is, the legion tactical squad, Mk4 pattern, in its natural environment- an empty field. What's this? Another 2! Rushing quickly out of the citadel woods! Such brutality. Such carnage. And now... more standing. The winning squad replaced with an identical copy of exactly 10. One wonders... what compels the tactical squad to crawl over others of its kind like lemmings in order to stand in these empty fields? A rhino with a havoc launcher approaches...

>>96744400
If you are going to spend 100% of your points on tanks or bikes you absolutely deserve to lose

>>96744185
I remember my first store owner having a unit of 5 of those bikers, led by a chaplain that had its "face" of the bike augumented by adding the "face" plate of Harlequin Dreadnought.
I thought it was the coolest thing ever. So cool, that I didn't start WFB, but rather went for w40k. that store owner was The Guy. Run a club where he would give us buckets of tacticals. He called them "projects" and GW would sent them to him. He would put down a TV at the store and we would "paint" models, watch old anime and drink plump juice and plump cake (his mother made those)
He died in Covid. Great guy, even if he was pro templar and against Joanit.

>>96744229
Has not gone old for me and my friends in over 30 years.

>>96744435
>I am completely incapable of visualizing why these marines may be throwing themselves at this particular area of the battlefield
If I asked you to visualize an apple in your head, what would you see?

>>96744426
How do you "interact" with your opponent. If he is ignoring you sitting on objectives in buildings. You can't enter them. You will not shot them off the objectives, even if you spam volkite. And even if by some miracle they do allow you to charge your golden keshig or regular jetbikers in to a unit on objective, you do not score, do not contest. You would think that with a such a handicap the mounted units were given some super powerful rules to balance it, high venguard or low point costs. Or you know something. Meanwhile they are worse then regular infantry or the av13- tanks, while somehow costing extra.

>>96744479
WALK INTO THE BUILDING RETARD

>>96744464
You don't need to visualize anything! If you're genuinely too retarded to make your own objective markers, they've been trying to sell you some for over a decade!

>>96744464
these 'marines' from the 'grim dark future' you visualize... are they in the room with us right now? do you see them less after the medication?

>>96744483
Mounted units can't enter area terrain.

>>96744401
yes, and many of them have been able to do that in a way that is more interesting/engaging than having scoring units stand in imaginary circles.

>>96744533
wtf are you talking about, anon.

>>96744628
Anon literally the original wargames made for military training had objectives based on capturing and defending cities (points on the map)

>>96744533
Where'd you get that from?

>>96744677
well how am I gonna fit 3-4 cities on a 6x4 table? Am I going to put each city on a 40mm base? what are these, cities for ants? Are you trying to get me to play LIgma?

>>96744713
>Are you trying to get me to play LIgma?
Worse...

>>96744734
Come on Anon you're breaking the masquerade, you're not supposed to show miniature gamers a real wargame.

Going to make some elite jump reavers, wondering what kind of loadout to go with, current idea is chieftain + 7 with lightning claws and 2 with power fists, only thing worrying me is if I have enough claws for everyone

Anyone got other ideas?

>>96743376
>And Cawl can build brand new Jetbikes and hand's them out to who ever he feels like.
Those look like they still use repulsor tech, so not true anti grav. Basically fancy hovercraft, temu jetbikes.

>>96744810
why fists instead of hammers?

>>96744916
Nta but fists are better. If you have 7 other ablative bodies on the unit the -1i is not going to make a difference

>>96744916
>>96744940
Yeah my idea with the fists was that they'll be attacking last against most things anyway so might as well get the most oomph, I'm not against hammers tho I'll need to see what I have left after building my other guys

>>96741118
>RG
Anti-insurrection/quelling rebellions and anti cosmic xenos. The original XIXth, dubbed The Hidden Hand of the Emperor, was a knife in the dark compliance force that also wasn't afraid of a brutal, but extremely swift, campaign of extreme violence and sacrificial lives.

They also for some reason were sent to fight the lovecraftian mind horror xenos a lot. They have the only example of "retired" marines after a conflict with some cosmic horror xenos. It is unknown if their own dark and strong willed demeanor led them to being deployed, or if it was one of their intended purposes, but they did well.

By luck or fate Corax became the noble bright version of the above and was exceptionally talented in war, planning, and execution. He truly was the jack of all trades and master of many. Few primarchs could best him both in 1 on 1 combat and perhaps two could outsmart him with enough prep. The Emperor surprisingly helped him whenever he requested and borderline coddled him. He was the "good kid with straight As who did all his chores" and had a really long leash. Too bad he was an insufferable cunt with the depressy and the source of his own biggest problems. Classic example of when locked in, he's unstoppable, but he is cursed with sad brain with "morals" and a "conscience" that fucks it up.

>>96738589
A lot of good points already. My group has adopted a few house rules already:
>All wargear options grandfathered in
>Terrain grants a save for intervening
>Light is unchanged, medium is "see in/out, not through" and heavy has the 3" depth rule to abstract supply depots, collapsed buildings etc that has a lot of abstracted scatter terrain in the footprint.
I'm tempted to change up scoring too. Or at least play with it. Maybe scoring is at the start of a turn, but Line and Vanguard are on your own turn. You can still move react off, but you score way less. If you defend your triangle you can score more and make the other player have to threaten it. Reserves, namely for flyers, needs work.

>>96745133
based and good, godspeed anon

>>96744916
Because if you're fighting hammers then hammers are better, but if you're fighting literally anything else in the game then fists are better

>>96745133
For as much shit as I give 40k, the obscuring rule for terrain is quite literally the single best rule the design team has ever come up with and it's not even close

>>96744385
Yes I do paint but I like converting more. I hope you get yours painted one day, painting is especially comfy when it's raining or bad weather.
>>96744153
What a bad faith strawman, I'm speaking on a much broader scale.

>>96744339
I hope some 3d chad designer makes heads like these one day.

>>96745356
Warden helmet is almost there. Just cut the top off, shape it, add a plume and fashion a grill mask (from an old Dark Eldar Warrior helmet face).

>>96745335
>not using the new lore-accurate Warhammer 40000: The Age of Darkness; Saturnine - Box Set version

I want to get a Predator
Plasma Cannon or Autocannon?

>>96745464
Volkite Macro-Saker

>>96745335
m8 if you think you'd be doing half the shit you do every day without abx making the world a survivable place you're fucking joking

do you even know how much GDP used to be spent on child mortality pre abx

>>96745464
Plasma Cannon is much better out of those
But there's better options too

>>96745500
>GDP
Literally a spook

>having to wait until at least mid 2026 for nuMkIV
pain

>>96745540
Why would you want it it'll look terrible and the helmet will be retconned to primaris

>>96745540
>no mk5 until the 4.0 starter box

>>96745554
Is the primaris in the room with us right now?

>>96745554
I have a fuckton of the old dudes, but I don't like to mix scales and the HH without MkIV is not HH for me. Specially since nuMk2/3 looks so off.
If nuMkIV ends up looking like the art, I'll be happy

>>96745570
>no MkI ever...

>>96745471
>>96745505
I was thinking Plasma since it "fit" what I was going for but honestly I think I'm starting to lack anti-armor, which I'm guess the Autocannon or Lascannons are better for?

Do you guys think we'll get some sort of dispensation for named characters from Libers to run in Blackshields, like Kaedes Nex?

>>96745598
We would have already, in the blackshields pdf, non?

>>96745598
They have one, it's called "an allied detachment". Not like he's a high command.

>>96745603
Fair enough
>>96745624
Eh, I don't want to run allied detachments of any kind in my herocraft list, it defeats the purpose

>>96745540
>>96745570
>No Mark VII until Scouring in 5.0

>>96745646
Well taking a singular character, like Nex, who in lore fucks off with blackshields is about as friendly as you'll get

>>96745540
If that's numk4 I'll skip it, looks like a tortuga bay ripoff (no offense).

>>96745871
Me too. All the updated power armour patterns have been absolute garbage, both in terms of aesthetics as well as how the models go together.

>>96745871
>>96745898
how you are going to skip numarks if these are the only ones being sold? recasters?

>>96745909
If numark4 is just a shittier slight modification of the previous mk4, while all other armors get a facelift, I'll just not buy mk4s. I don't dislike the nu marks in themselves (except mk3 because of the terrible trim, and the way the kits work in general), but at least GW made them different and so you can still keep old designs in your heart (and say it's a variant to appease the autism spirits). The mk4 shown in the tactica journal just looks like a worse version of the BaC mk4.

It's sad, mk4 is my favorite mark, but I'd rather not buy anything than buy something I dislike.
>recasters
Maybe, I did prefer the midhammer version of mk4, with the snoot, flat chest and groin plate

>>96745909
recasts, second hand, and/or pr00nts

>>96745871
wtf are you talking about? The new Mk4 are the most faithful to the original design, they are basically the same

>>96745994
>the new mark4
It's not even out yet?

>>96746011
>>96745540

>>96746017
>the most faithful
>basically the same
That's what I said: it looks like a tortuga rip off: it's the same details but it's off and misses the point.

No I'm not gonna argue with you, I think it's be extremely fucking stupid. I stated my piece, if you have a problem with anything I do not care, don't expect more replies, no matter how intelligent or retarded you'd be.

>>96745540
didn't the rumors say that nuMkV comes first?

>>96746083
>it's the same details but it's off and misses the point.
What point they are missing tho? Especially if that's basically the same design as the old one

/hhg/ is just /40kg/ but everyone is 40 instead of 20

>>96746536
How dare you

>>96746536
Nah too little /pol/ posting

wow we almost had player placed terrain

>>96745596
>anti-armor
>Autocannon
Anon that needs a 6 just to pen a Rhino on the front
Predator weapons are not great antitank desu
Both las weapons and the magna melta are the best for that but even then you are probably not going to be killing anything with AV 14 that quickly.
It's a lot better at deleting infantry with a plasma canon or heavy conversion beamer.
The graviton cannon can also be good if you want to deal pinning and can probably kill a few marines

>>96746689
Have used magna melta predators, and they're surprisingly decent at killing AV 14 vehicles. It's a bit hit or miss with only 1 shot, but if they land that penetrating hit within melta range it's a straight 8 damage at once. Enough to one-tap land raiders, and leave spartans on 2 HP which is enough for sponson lascannons to finish off.

>>96746718
It's the gambling man's choice

>>96746536
>instead of 20
No one under 30 plays either game

>>96746907
playing is outside of the discussion, nobody here does that period

>>96746907
Anon...we have 12 year old players here, albeit using their dad's ultramarines and imperial fists while he builds his iron warriors

>>96746664

Player placed terrain sucks.

>>96743988
>>96744107
Do either of you have actual rules to back this up or are you going off vibes

>>96746907
I started playing 40k tabletop back in 2012 right after I turned 21 and then was into heresy a little over two years later.

>>96739429
Yep, people love their termies and forget to play the game lol. There are plenty of ways to interfere with and slaughter tacticals so I have to imagine that either people are playing games against drooling retards or they aren’t playing

>>96747019
4th edition: L shaped, player placed, GW (TM) clear acrylic ruins

>>96747081
Anon 2012 was 13 years ago

>>96747148
It's hard to take people seriously when they're complaining about 10 tactical marines standing somewhere.

>>96747199
Don't ever say that again.

How do HH plastics size up to the non-Primaris? I was thinking of running some HH marines as Vets in older editions.

>>96747220
they are a fair bit larger but should be fine as vets since some of those olde metals were a bit better proportioned

Really getting tired of most games being decided by turn 2 or literally by if you go first or not.

Trying really hard anona to like this version but holy fuck it's a struggle

>>96747450
Alter the scoring parameters to score at beginning of turn maybe?

>>96747450
Do you have enough terrain? Second player should have a way to kill a rhino or tac squad for First Strike while being able to hide sufficiently.

>>96747450
You must not be very good at the game

>>96729724
Why the FUCK do these have so many parts? Building these sucks ass. My hatchet men will look cool though. Not sure which of my legions they'll go to though.

>>96747573
new bread
>>96747573
bring a pen and paper

>>96747182
Player places terrain is good tbq senpai.

>>96747290
Thank you, Anon.

>>96747220
It’s only really noticeable with the hunch boys from 3rd or the scrawny ones from earlier, otherwise the late 90s/00s Tacs are pretty equal. I just got a bunch of the former from second hand Black Reach box guys, fuck are they cool

>>96745003
>Few primarchs could best him both in 1 on 1 combat and perhaps two could outsmart him with enough prep.
he gets bodied by almost every other space dad in every edition. The only reason he beat Bobby in a Wargame is because his marines had a tendency to go ash-blind instead of breaking.

>>96744705
Polish 3ed HH FAQ. Can't fly over area terrain or heavy terrain and no one plays with anything else then those two combined