Thread 96727985

Thread title
Why did they get so steamed about the whole thing, fighting slavery is like 80% of the plot hooks in a fantasy game. There were entire prestige classes and campaigns built around that.
I mean like if the bad guys don't do slavery and aren't racist / homophobic, what do they do that's actually bad

Them being visibly present makes it very hard to keep players from participating on the side of the slavers, which is one of the greatest sins possible by the pseudo-ethics of Paizo's primary ideological base.

>>96728048
Yeah but that's the choice of the PCs

>>96727985 (OP)
I wonder if Homare accepts English commissions

>>96728119
You could try, but sadly he mostly does non-pornographic art these days as he's been working for Marvel and DC.

>>96727985 (OP)
Because they believe depiction is endorsement. Don't try to square that circle with any of the other shit they depict, it's not a logical decision.

>>96728161
That's fucking retarded

>>96727985 (OP)
They are so woke their brains literally fell out. Its hard to figure out why progs do what they do, consider the fact that Villains in leftist media, even though they are Villains, will never "misgender" a Troon character. They want troons so normalised that the likes of Darth Vader and Sauron wouldn't even think to deadname a troon.

>>96728220
It's really weird when a villain is supposedly evil as shit, but he's never racist, misogynist or homophobic. That's the very strange kind of evil that reeks of modern sensibilities.
>"Gok'mok the Defiler would NEVER disrespect trans women!"

>>96727985 (OP)
They are a corporation that makes decisions purely on what they think will make them the most money.

>>96727985 (OP)
because americans are slaves dumb shit, they don't want them to figure it out

>>96727985 (OP)
It was the final solution to the Elf Slave Wat Do threads.

>>96728216
Of course it's retarded you're replying to bait in the bait thread

>>96728229

It's more of a safespace thing. You wouldn't want Darth Vader to rape corpses of children, even if that would make him more clearly evil. It would an aftertaste.

Granted, it IS pretty strange to stop at slavery specifically (way more than being homofobic, ironically enough), but I don't think it's the principle that's strange, more the application.

>>96728220
remember that dude who said darth vader would never approve of any of his troops raping or abusing women

some people just live in different worlds

>>96728307
You think he was looking down at those dismembered younglings in the jedi temple thinking unclean thoughts??

>>96728312
I mean, that would be an interesting question. WOULD he care? A lot of rape on battlefields happens out of the purview of the higher-ups, because it has no tactical benefit, and is a distraction that can lead to insubordination. I think there’s an interesting question of how much villains would care about these things for reasons beyond personal morality.

>>96728322

Why the fuck not anon. Why the fuck not.

>>96728101
They don't want the PCs making the wrong choice.
Its an media-industry wide shift, you see it in video games and movies/tv too.

>>96728312
Darth Vader's mother was raped to death by savages and exacting bloody revenge on them was his first big step toward the Dark Side. It's quite believable that he would summarily execute Stormtroopers for it without a thought.

>>96728327
>>96728360
I'm sure he'd not tolerate it from the 501st or anyone on the Executor or Avenger, but I can't imagine even Anakin "I should be able to stop people from dying" Skywalker being enough of a control freak to think he can stamp it out across the whole imperial military

>>96728327

DV himself is your usual anal-retentive figure and he would care (hell, I don't see him particulary happy to randomly let civilians suffer), but he doesn't control the army as a whole.

Still, I mean, even nazi command KINDA didn't let soldier do everything. Can't see the army condone it by principle.

>>96728390
>(hell, I don't see him particulary happy to randomly let civilians suffer)
This is a hard one to pin down. He definitely tolerates the massacre of civilians and the suffering of people, but he's usually got some kind of tactical or esoteric reason for it. He also lets his head get away from him so I bet if, like, a kid had thrown a cow pie at him during a parade or something like that he'd tear the crowd apart.

>>96728101
Whoa there, that is just not what RPG's are about in the current year. Players are supposed to be making self inserts that fulfil their kinkiest desires.

>>96728352
Yeah, you can depict Bad Thing in media where the writer has total control over the narrative and can ensure only the moral message is delivered to audiences. In media where consumers have some control over the narrative, like in games, the risk that they might enjoy Bad Thing incorrectly and thereby normalize Evil is too great.

>>96728400

The closest thing I can remember to him doing a "free for all" atrocity is Alderaan, which IS an atrocity (and possibly one pretty edgy even for the empire) but the people there at least were vaporized. So, I dunno. I would guess he could very well stop before, I don't fucking know, starve a planet or something.

>>96728464
Alderaan was also not his idea, it was Tarkin's. But it was a solution they settled on after torturing a princess didn't get them the results they wanted, so it's a difference of kind rather than degree.

In AotC Anakin specifically identifies killing the women and children of the tusken tribe as being different and worse than killing the men, that's more the way I think he justifies atrocities. He would have landed the ship on the protestors like Tarkin did, for example.

>>96728327
He probably would care, he was probably raped as a slave, and his mom was 100% raped by the sand people. A lot of people forget Vader is more broken than evil

>>96728437
What if my kinky desire is a slave girl harem?

>>96728464
He did also kill all those jedi kids. By the time of the original movies, Vader is perfectly fine with mass murder, since it's a line he's crossed multiple times.
Slavery and rape almost certainly less so. But we also see that slavery seems to be alive and well on Tatooine, so if Vader didn't even manage to stamp it out on his home planet, then he clearly can't care about it that much.

>>96728853
Between Tatooine, Coruscant, and Mustafar he's never been in any occupation where he doesn't call his superior "Master"

You know you can depict it in your own home game, right OP? No one's stopping

>>96728853
Is so weird to add "kills a bunch of children" to his lore and still make him a good force ghost...

>>96728220
>>96728322
>>96728360
prequels aren't canon

>>96728957
It's been almost 30 years. You need to move on.

>>96728220
Technically, Anakin Skywalker is his dead name and he specifically calls out his son for using it

>>96728903
I think it's just the principle of the matter that Paizo - who developed part of their reputation on having a game darker than D&D - would become so sissified as to remove a theme that serves as such an obvious "that's the bad guy, go kick his ass" from their sourcebooks

>>96728992
That's fair. I think it's lame too.

>>96727985 (OP)
They're bringing back Dark Sun and the same faggots who insisted slavery was problematic in RPGs have tried to spin New WotC product as an amazing thing because the players get to be the noble down-trodden working class heroes who get to be awesome by ending slavery and killing slavers. A thing that has been common in RPGs for half a fucking century.

>>96727985 (OP)
Performatively woke.

>>96729177
WotC has always been just hypocritical about this, they keep ritualistically lamenting about how the old D&D was and is racist, sexist and problematic, but still gladly keep profiting of it.

>>96729585
They also like to bring back old settings like Dragonlance, that people liked for the classic-feeling Larry Elmore art and neo-trad design, then they turn it into afroslop and cry that it was unsuccessful.

>>96728390
Vader would probably expect discipline. As long as that is followed and what he orders done is done fast, he wouldn't care what happens out of his sight.

>>96727985 (OP)
They haven't removed it from the setting in the new books. I get the feeling you just read rage bait from this thread a year ago, and then you had something like a LSD flashback to the rage bait just now.

>>96728048
>participating on the side of the slavers
Based
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZxMDZ3TdZM

>>96727985 (OP)
Thankfully I just add slavery back in, then play as a slaver. It's fun.

We opened our kingdom in KM to slavers for profits. Woke gm was screaming

Thread theme (Fitting): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jREUrbGGrgM

>>96728788
Then I would call you a safe horny basic bitch.

Should slaves be used for work or sex?

>>96728119
I got quite good with AI models, and in particular Homare based one.

What do you want? Describe me the character and i will see what can be done

>>96728957
nah, they're fine, disney wars is non-canon now

>>96727985 (OP)
>homophobic
You're not getting away equating homo hate with actual cruelty fag.

>>96727985 (OP)
>Fictional beings abused
>Readers most affected
We're reaching our next human psychosis point where we kill each other again.

>>96728253
Correct answer but the real question becomes
>why do they think that completely removing slavery from their settings (but keeping torture, murder and other bad things) will make them more money?

One of my favorite PCs is a nixie who goes absolutely scorched-earth on slavers. Burning down their homes, hanging them from trees, organizing lynch mobs, smuggling slaves to safe nations, if you're running a slave auction you better have guards armed to the teeth because she's going to be there with a big barrel of smoking gunpowder and a catapult within the hour.

And she has a very, very loose definition of "slavery".

Can't be the abolitionist hero because WAAAAAAAAAHHHH now.

>>96730930
I'd let a Nixie hang Me.

>>96730930
Cool it with the anti-semitic remarks.

>>96728961
Even if the entire world has moved on I will never move on. Prequels aren't canon, sequels aren't canon.

>>96730930
I really liked the Royal Navy anti slavery patrols.
>hey our guys could use some practice to keep them sharp
>lets take our prospective young officers that are agressive and independent enough to be future frigate captains
>give them a ship, crew, guns , then send them to go and fuck shit up
>oh, and prize rules kinda-sorta apply, so any ship they capture makes them and their crew hefty dose of cash
>fuck shit up they do with gusto. And if they are bored they will also raid local shore based slave factories and burn them down. Or visit local tribe chief and say
>oi, mate, cool it with the slave business, or we will check if we can play "rule britannia" using our cannons against your royal mud hut
>because that what you get when you send bunch of pretty much unsupervised dudes selected for initiative and aggresion so they might have a taste of some action and independent command
>also lot of slaver ships belong to the guys from nations we dont like, so even if we are not currently at war with them, thats still another bonu

I mean other than the usual hardship of tropical station fa away from home, shit was profitable, got you real life experience and promotions, was objectively morally righteous, and could allow navy to asses their young officers in action. Everyone profits (except the slave traders, but fuck them)

>>96728307
>calling me by my actual name is literally the same as raping the corpses of children
looney troons really do be thinkin this huh

>>96727985 (OP)
My guess is that they got older. When you were a teenager it was prolly fun to play Call of Duty and scream obsenities while watching someone's head explode in graphic detail. You get older and the testosterone mellows out a little, get your sanity back and your childish impulse for violence under control. And you ask "is this really what I want to be entertained by?"

It's not immoral. Like what you like. But for lots of people, we grow up and wanna be better.

>>96727985 (OP)
It's like the problem of making an anti-war film. You can't do it, because any depiction of war also glorifies it. "There's no such thing as an anti-war film" is a known problem in filmmaking.

The same issue applies to stuff like slavery in RPGs. No matter the subject, if you depict it, someone is going to think it's cool and a good idea, and therefore the RPG writers become responsible for that. The only way to avoid that is to not depict it all all.

I don't agree with it, but there is a logical thought process behind it.

>>96727985 (OP)
Yeah, Chaosium tried to do something similar with Glorantha, in their expanded Equipment manual bizarrely after they had already established in the core book, actual prices for slaves - there was this weird little inset that "There is no slavery in Glorantha" - and I'm like "Wut, mate, I have the core book from this same edition that lists the prices for an adult man, woman or child".

It's fucking ridiculous, because slavery and rebellion have been one of the recurring themes of the setting, as it's more or less a fantasy bronze-Age world.

I literally got banned from facebook for chewing the developers out for being so stupid, and violating their own product for woke points.

Wasn't long after Greg Stafford died.

Shame about the edition overall; it it clunky and overdesigned.

RQ classic is better streamlined, more versatile and more playable.

>>96731505
You sound like a faggot.
It's not the fact that you have differing tastes - that's fine.
But it's the implicit smugness of the assertion that being squeamish and a prude is part of "growing up".

You are a wet shit.

>>96731525
I agree with most of this, and it's what I'm saying here: >>96731505

The part I don't agree with is the part where you think it necessarily includes an ethical calculation. I don't think it does. Does it glorify war, or slavery or whatever? I mean of course no one is saying "wow don't watch Saving Private Ryan because you'll think war is good." But you do ask yourself "do I really wanna get entertained by making it look cool?" It doesn't have to be an ethical judgement. It can just be "that seems gross and I'd rather focus on something else, instead."

>>96731547
>But it's the implicit smugness of the assertion that being squeamish and a prude is part of "growing up".
Sorry if you feel singled out by it, anon. But yes: young men have a natural, immature propensity for violence because of raging hormones that really does mellow out as people get towards their late 20s and early 30s. That's just how our brains develop. I'm not being smug about it--just honest.

>>96728957
I respect it, assuming you mean 1977 only. In that case, you should check out the official radio play adaptation that came out before Empire: it gets a lot more graphic about Vader's torture of Leia and is a clear vision of the original idea of the character.

>>96728788
You will hire courtesans, pay them liveable wages and you will like it.

>>96731567
>I am a grownup
>My games of pretend are MATURE and about thigs like TAX RETURNS and PANIC ATTACKS

Like I said; Boring Faggot.

>>96731607
That's not what I said at all, anon. It's part of growing up. I'm not at all claiming "ha ha I'm better than you because you're in your late teens/early 20s." I'm claiming "human bodies change as we age, and are brains are part of our bodies." Again: like the thing you like. I'm not making a moral judgement about it. You're gonna get older and find violence less appealing, just like every other man on earth who lives into his 30s.

>>96731525
But slavery IS cool and good. I don't see the issue. There's no such thing as a civilization which wasn't built of the labor of people who don't matter.

>>96731615
I'm thirty three, and you sound fucking gay and smarmy.
Get over yourself, you jackanape, and smash some rape-goblins together whilst making sticky wet mouth-noises, like a real man.

I'll do the voices.

>"Oh no mister Space Marine, please don't rape my asshole!"

>"NO FEAR CITIZEN; FOR I CLEAVE ONLY UNTO THE EMPEROR, BUT HAVE YOU HAD YOUR PROSTATE EXAMINED FOR HERESY?"

>*THWOCK SLORPH SMUSH RRRRRRIP!*

This is what we do here.
Be it a playground for the developmentally delayed or no.

Look at it.
LOOK AT IT!

I will hold your face to the fire!
You boring smarmy shitwipe!

>>96731641
I'm sorry you feel so defensive and attacked. Since I'm not attacking you? I really can't help you with that, anon.

Except to point out that maybe your ultra-aggressive response to intentionally misunderstand someone else and feel violent towards them is... a little bit? Illustrating my point.

>>96731646
I don't want you to apologise, I want you to call me a cunt back and get on with it, you insufferable spunk-puddle.

If this interaction meant anything to you at all, it is just another sign of taking things too seriously.

Fish your testicles from out your torso cavity, from whence they have retreated.

>>96731666
>I want you to call me a cunt back and get on with it
I have absolutely no desire to do that, anon. Sorry.

>>96731671
Then you are once more, taking it all too seriously, you daft ugly sadboy.

>Can't even call me a cunt
What sort of worthless excuse for a man are you?

Go sit with the menopause crowd; they'll teach you how to be "mature".

>>96731696
You know, it's ironic that you pretended to get offended in the first place, because you thought I was judging you for having different taste than I do. As you spew invectives about "being a real man" for liking different things than you do.

Give it some though, anon.

>>96731716
>Smug womanish bedwetter continues to respond with passive-aggressive attempts to appear intellectually superior and unphased

Sit on your balls, hard, you soft-handed damsel.

>I'm so mature, a-bloo-bloo-bloo
>My games of pretend have moved beyond the childish things YOU like
>Slavery and rape and existential evil is so IMMATURE

I'm going to call you names, and you are going to deserve every single one.

>>96727985 (OP)
Because Paizo is pro-slavery, that's the only answer.

>>96728048
>makes it very hard to keep players from participating on the side of the slavers
Nice mask off moment, slaver filth. Enjoy being a corpse on a pile with the rest of your subhuman ilk after we free your slaves, slaughter your numbers, and burn your holds to ash.

>>96732124
You were daydreaming again maggot.
Back to the asbestos mines with you.
And half-rations for dawdling.

why does cheliax exist now

>>96730590
>AI

>>96732572
Oh just expect it to never come up again.
Or if it does, expect it to have been inexplicably reformed offscreen.
Slavery?
Memory-holed in-setting.
Forced labour?
Physically impossible; the gods themselves redistribute the baddie's silver pieces directly into the pockets of those who are exploited for manual tasks, with compensation.

Something like the spellplague happened, and everybody collectively forgot that they could make people do things against their will.

The Orcish economy collapsed overnight, and the six or seven different flavours of Lawful Evil bootleg D&D monsters are facing their own civilizational collapse.

The Duergar and Drow seem to dimly remember a time when somebody else did all the shit-sweeping and litter picking, but are stumped as to who, as they sit around their moldering fortresses refusing to pick up their own laundry and discarded cutlery out of the strange lingering apprehension that they are too good for that.

>>96727985 (OP)
What slavery is bad?
When I introduced a slave merchant into my game my party immediately started going full-on nonlethal and went out of their way to capture all sentient enemies alive now that there was an economic incentive to do so.
Hell, over time they even stopped selling some of the slaves they liked and kept them in there stronghold, they even freed some of them for good service

>>96728220
>Its hard to figure out why progs do what they do
It's actually very easy:
They hate White people. Everything else is "logically" derived from that.

>>96729714
Nice second-place trophy.

>>96732572
Watch them become wacky fun modern Satanist losers instead of Infernal Authoritarians

>>96733018
Gospel truth, no cap, fr fr.
I'm gonna write a lightweight rpg about a sexual combat tournament, where the participants are genetically and robotically modified pit-slaves that bloodily rape each other to death with theri weaponized genitals, in front of jeering crowds of racially diverse sexual deviants, to earn upgrades to get better at raping each other to death, in the hope of some day having a shot at retiring on a giant pile of pain-numbing opioids and disposable concubines.

>>96727985 (OP)
Showing something means you agree with it to modern creators. I wish I was making this shit up. Makes sense when the default option is to try and nuke anybody who even disagrees with you slightly from all public squares. A heavily sanitized setting is the going to be the end result. Pathfinder isn't heavily sanitized but that shit is creeping in and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

>why do leftists shun away from depictions of slavery
Because they're worried players aka chuds will "enjoy it wrong" and suddenly they're complicit or something in right-wing or whatever behavior

>>96727985 (OP)
because retards believe that depiction == endorsement.
These are the same retards that believe that speech == violence

Then then of course use this false equivalence to justify their own violence, as their political enemies were the first to escalate to violence in that paradigm of speech == violence

>>96733922
>because retards believe that depiction == endorsement.
>These are the same retards that believe that speech == violence
This is not "Retardation". They know what they're doing. May be not the drones, but the queens for sure.

>>96733996
Yup.
Their favourite tactic when this activity is noticed is "Sandbagging" - pretending they don't know what you are talking about.

This is because these people are pathologically conflict averse.

Which is a terrible shame for them, because they paint a target on their own foreheads whenever they uncloak.

>>96734062
Hitler called it "jewish arguing":
>The more I argued with them, the better I came to know their dialectic. First they counted on the stupidity of their adversary, and then, when there was no other way out, they themselves simply played stupid. If all this didn't help, they pretended not to understand, or, if challenged, they changed the subject in a hurry, quoted platitudes which, if you accepted them, they immediately related to entirely different matters, and then, if again attacked, gave ground and pretended not to know exactly what you were talking about. Whenever you tried to attack one of these apostles, your hand closed on a jelly-like slime which divided up and poured through your fingers, but in the next moment collected again. But if you really struck one of these fellows so telling a blow that, observed by the audience, he couldn't help but agree, and if you believed that this had taken you at least one step forward, your amazement was great the next day. The Jew had not the slightest recollection of the day before, he rattled off his same old nonsense as though nothing at all had happened, and, if indignantly challenged, affected amazement; he couldn't remember a thing, except that he had proved the correctness of his assertions the previous day. Sometimes I stood there thunderstruck. I didn't know what to be more amazed at: the agility of their tongues or their virtuosity at lying. Gradually I began to hate them.

Basically, the right answer to a person attempting to argue in bad faith is lethal force.

>>96733021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n3m9lZpPwI

>>96734109
Yup.
I had an argument with Google Gemini (yes, I know) about Saul Alinsky yesterday, and drew much the same conclusions;

The reason Alinsky released Rules for Radicals just before he died, is because if his opponents had realized what he was doing while he was still living; they would have been perfectly within their rights to shoot him dead in the street, in cold blood, and piss on his corpse.

Hail Victory, friend.
There are more of us here than they will ever know.

My fav type of slave

>>96728992
You need to remember that a bit before the bad things purge they got a lot of bad publicity for having a demonic patron for pedophiles in one of their villain books. They hard shifted directions at that point and started doing a ton of virtue signalling to pander to the audience that complained.

>>96734798
That's pretty off-colour desu.
I wouldn't complain about it, or try to censor, but I just straight up wouldn't be interested in thinking too much about that sort of shit.

Adult on adult rape?
Fine.
Cannibalism?
Fine.
Murdering children non-sexually?
Also fine.

But that's what I'd call "Unnecessary vulgarity", even by my loose standards.

I just don't see how you could introduce that element on to your table and keep it fun, rather than descending into the benthic abyss.

Sure; the character is a villain, and that's not an endorsement; but when you go to run the villain, then what?

You now have a campaign with an ongoing theme that makes even fairly hardened blood and guts enthusiasts, frankly uncomfortable.

Anyway, can I read about this entity on the wiki?
My bile curiosity is up, and I gotta see how badly they screwed the pooch.

What's it called?

>>96727985 (OP)
Funny how OP mentioned slavery while being a slave to lust and being a coomer

>>96727985 (OP)
Shut up, porn addict

>>96728220
Because it is acceptable for the villain to harm characters, but it is not acceptable for the villain to harm The Message(tm)

>>96734907
>>96735130
>Guys, what do we do?
>Some CHUD is calling out our retarded pseudo-ethics on a shithole irrelevant imageboard that was never cool
>False flag Chud on Chud conflict;
>Call him a "Porn Addict"
>Yeah, that will show him!

Haha.
But actually, no.

You faggots aren't welcome on the board, in this hobby, or on this planet.

You aren't actually concerned about OP's titty anime.

You are genitally mutilated freaks trying to forestall your own misanthropic suicides.

>>96730930
this is gay as fuck lmao

the reason why people think this is cringy is because it's obviously inspired by the player's personal butthurt.
But not just regular butthurt. Media-induced butthurt. The gayest form of butthurt.
like you can't fuckin convince me that player feels that strongly about any historical topic without having been properly lobotomized by several movies first.

shit's just embarrassing. players like that are a fucking piece of work too most of the time.

>>96735362
It is "pretty gay" like that, but if they can roleplay it and arent disrupting the party, I'd allow it.

Though if they pitched the character concept to me before asking for a seat I might suddenly remember an acquaintance I had promised the slot to.

>>96735362
She's a paladin of freedom, if slavers don't have their own version of "speak of the devil" you're doing it wrong.

>>96727985 (OP)
>Why did Pathfinder remove slavery
because it made for a good twitter post.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMszhdPbB1o
How come slave songs are so religious? Would slaves in a fantasy world be just as religious?

>>96734872
Folca is the demon you're looking for.

>>96732572
>>96732879
>>96733037
So they freed their halfling slaves, on top of course having Cheliax get their ass kicked by all their distant colonies one of which should end up like Haiti realistically. They have "forced" the halflings into contracts as workers, basically doing a sharecropping thing which of course the shitlibs in Seattle can't comprehend many did it because it was their only option.

Dunno if the contracts binds their souls or not, be funny if it did. But yeah Cheliax "got rid" of slavery. Whole world did somehow, it's weird. Like the whimpering, crying mewls of some faggot freelancers influenced the world or something.

>>96732879
>Monster race slavers
You bring up a good point though. They probably will never speak of the fact that almost all gnolls were slavers again. Just like how they scrubbed clean that their primary goddesses main doctrine included indoctrinating children.

>>96734872
On the contrary, the fact that Paizo was willing to depict all manners of evil set it away from the cartoonier WotC. Little did i know Book of the Damned was the final piece of edgy PF content.

>>96736082
Yeah Cheliax basically switched from slavery to modern contract slavery, which contradicts the idea that depicting slavery endorses it (unless they like the modern stuff). I suppose they could have wanted to use it to virtue signal against modern slavery, but I haven't seen anything implying that they're moving in that direction.

>>96727985 (OP)
Don't care about the irrelevant time-wasting question, I'm just replying because of the lust-provoking image. Love to come across some homare.

>>96736021
Thanks man

The writeup is unsurprisingly short but yeah, they have managed to conmunicate the intent and it clearly is what it is described as.

Like
>skeletal hand offering sweets symbol
>Unnatural lust
>Modify memory
>Conceal

Yeah, that's a nonce demon alright, no mistake.

>>96736102
Fair enough, dunno why I expected summat more graphic, buy it is still beyond the remit of my tastes.

>>96728853
This is something I was always confused by Vader's characterization overall. Were I in the same shoes, and I became evil, I'm fairly certain my immediate action would be an all morals suspended campaign of murdering every single asshole on Tatooine. I guess the dark side is supposed to have made him just stop caring about his family vs raw power.

My current game has 2 black players and involves fighting slavers who explicitly took over a town to take the population as slaves. Everyone in this group has supported the "stop making fantasy races inherently evil" but also falls right into "we can't trust him he's a goblin" type mentality and other racial generalizations as soon as we get into the actual game.
If they wanted to join the slavers, so be it. They'd regret it because the slavers are very racially prideful and would enslave almost all the PCs and kill the magic users who are still a threat once disarmed.
I get that slavery is a sensitive topic but it's honestly not as bad as wanton slaughter that is also a part of DnD. It's ok for the orcs to slaughter the entire populace but not enslave them? Bizarre.

>>96736167
Chances are good they don't even see it as slavery. Our modern system is built on exploiting the third world either by importing them for peanuts and holding the deportation of damocles over their heads if they dare disobey or "hiring" them for peanuts in their own country so they can be made to work 17 hours a day in dangerous, polluted conditions under supervisors who are allowed to openly abuse them. This is seen as virtuous because it "lets them chase their dreams" or whatever, but it's pretty abusive and both situations have forced labor running through them.

>>96730930
>she's going to be there with a big barrel of smoking gunpowder and a catapult within the hour.
What makes this character not gay to me is her willingness to kill the slaves in order to end slavery.

>>96731592
>and you will like it.
Yes, mommy

>>96727985 (OP)
They didn't. They just said "we're not going to focus on it in modules anymore", and some dipshit willfully misread that as "slavery has been axed out of the setting with no explanation". They did retroactively replace drow with snake people, though.

>>96737693
Explosions have limited range anon.

>>96727985 (OP)
Far as I can tell Paizo just bends wherever they think the wind will bend for the next fad among their cliques.
The only time i've ever seen them stand up for themselves was when Price was starting shit with not only their customers (which she had been doing on their forums for ages) but also started going after multiple other people in the industry who were getting pretty close to suing.

>>96733310
FATAL already exists anon

>>96737962
well pathfinder drow are embarrasingly bad

>>96732873
>>96732882
Not bad desu

>>96737962
no they did actually take it out of the setting info in the nations who used slavery

>>96740893
They don't exist anymore.

>>96727985 (OP)
anime tiddies....

>>96738331
Ah, FATAL. The one game where you can rape somebody to death accidentally.

>>96736016
If religion stops people from committing suicide, atheist slaves would gradually be selected out of the population. Slaves who believed they would be freed at some point in their lifetime (in a scenario where this was unlikely, such as the pre-1860s American South) might justify this irrational belief through optimistic fatalism, and slave owners would also have an incentive to teach religion that justifies slavery to their slaves (especially in a setting where evidence of this religion being accurate, such as divine magic, exists and can also be used to enforce slavery), even if they already had biological justifications for it (which are not effective at convincing the people you're enslaving)

Inb4 anons get in an argument on what my political beliefs are

>>96736102
I know it was printed earlier than the book of the damned, but read Dragon Magazine #300. It completely blows modern discussions of "safety tools" out of the water by including a rating system which allows you to filter out immature players and also justifies realistically edgy content (although I think the obsession with every player being somewhat evil in a vile game is a bit cartoonish, as it's possible to have an ultra-grimdark rapey setting and still play a character with a moral code)

>>96741036
I don't get why this piece of misinformation keeps getting spread on Reddit, YouTube comments, and now even 4chan. There are good reasons to dislike FATAL, but if you're going to criticize it, point to something actually in the book (such as the debauchery system making receiving cunnilingus significantly more debauched than giving oral sex as a woman or being vaginally penetrated, or the fact that rape victims are usually blamed for the rape, or the extremely high prevalence of rape in general) rather than making things up.

"You can accidentally rape someone to death just by attacking"
This is wrong, you actually have a 10% chance (12: Overbearing or 20: Winner's Choice (Overbearing) or 15% if you use Aedile Fiat to state that 19:New Move also allows rape) to be able to attempt rape (which is a choice) if you successfully wrestle someone. Cursed items and Random Magical Effects can compel rape, but that only occurs as a result of magic, not basic combat. See pages 396-399.

"Rape is the least punished crime"
Actually there are some notable crimes considered less severe by most races, notable homosexuality, heresy, incest, trespassing, vagrancy, and whoring. Punishments for rape in different races include fines, forced chastity belts, imprisonment (although the imprisonment duration for humans is unrealistically low in my opinion), castration, being struck on the genitals with a footman's warhammer (which is almost certainly castration due to the Graphic Gore system) and death. See pages 177 and 192.

"Homosexuals can't be happily married"
If you've actually seen the marital status table (page 149), it states that marriage is the union of an adult male and female for life, therefore any homosexual character in such a union would be unhappy due to having to act heterosexual. FATAL was actually accidentally shining a light on the phenomena of Beards in a homophobic fantasy setting.

>>96741400
Before you ask, yes I have a slight autistic hyperfixation on FATAL (I've listened to the FATAL theme song over 100 times and listened to a ~4 hour long extremely choppy interview with James Hausler just to learn more about the design process that went into the game), which I accidentally developed by researching it to make a shitpost about it more accurate (not the comment I just made, a post I made a while ago which received over 300 replies). I think there are a few things that FATAL does well, but these can be mostly found in other games, and there are many other purely gameplay flaws (nearly any attack is likely to result in dismemberment due to LP usually being 20something, limbs having BP based on their proportion of your volume * your LP, and weapons regularly dealing multiple d10s of damage or higher, and armor also has very low durability, meaning that getting hit once could take off your limb and the armor it was wearing, even if the weapon was a hoe or even scissors, see tables on pages 432-438)

Also all page references are to From Another Time Another Land, not Fantasy Adventure To Adult Lechery

>>96741400
yeah
that same system has something just as retarded in it
if you win the roll to resist rape there is like a 50/50 chance you were raped anyway. what winning the roll to resist is for isnt all that clear its possible rtraping someone just takes them out of the fight completely but rules both suggest and oppose this interpretations. most retaardedly of this retarded retardfest though is that armor gives a bonus to the roll to resist, meaning that while it takes up to half an hour to don plate someone can put their dick through it i the space of a round even when failing to roll to rape someone in as spectacular a failure as possible. dicks just phase through metal 50% of the time in fatal.

>>96731567
Nah. As much as I loathe the x-pill narrative, you really did take the weak-man-pill. If anything, my teenage edginess crystallized. I'm now nearly 40 and I've come to the conclusion that the world is actually worse than I imagined it as a teen, and that there really are no actual rules. There really is just nothing. Nothing has meaning. So you look to create meaning, with the understanding that the meaning will be personal and thus, not actually have meaning at all. Thus you embrace the absurdity and you realize that shouting slurs or liking huge tits or catcalling women or shitting on people or.. well, anything can be done.

Which is to say that my "raging hormones" now burn cold rather than hot. And they're excellent motivators.

>>96740893
>>96741015

If you want some good dark elves, some retard sperg wrote a whole book about them for OSR products. It's called Twisted Shadows: A Compendium of Dark Elves and it's both in the trove and you can pay what you want on DTRPG. Hell, I'll even drop a link, why not:

https://files.catbox.moe/xsolyj.pdf

>>96741462
im sorry you werent strong enough to make personal meaning in the world anon

i hope someday you grow beyond that need for parental adjacent assurance of absolute inbuilt rules and become a realized man.

>>96741475
neat
thank you for this contribution to my degeration into a trog fellow anon

>>96741921
have fun degering

>>96728229
Highly relevant screenshot time.

>>96727985 (OP)
There is still slavery, just less. It's an easy writing crutch to make any group automatically bad guys. They wanna flex their brains and actually have the different evil groups be evil in different ways.

>>96743153
>They wanna flex their brains and actually have the different evil groups be evil in different ways.
No, they're lunatics that believe speaking something into the world brings it into being and therefore any mention of slavery as bad is an endorsement.
They are full on buckbroken by their philosophy to the point where 1984-esq 'We no longer have a word for that and therefore it does not exist' is considered a virtuous goal that they should be working towards rather than the evil that it actually is.

The Drones think they're slaying a great evil.
The leaders know the real goal is to make is so you don't even have the words to argue against what they're doing to you.

>>96730126
for sexwork obviously and yes sexwork is work just ask pizaro

>>96743185
>>96743167
Why does it still exist then?

>>96734109
>>96734167
On the off chance you are not larping: either read up on none nazi stuff and ascend as human beings. Or just neck yourselves. Save us all the trouble.

>>96743264
good idea, you shouldn't limit yourself to just one of the third way movements.
I'd recommend some of the ideological works behind the Vaterländische Front
evola is kind of gay but still a good read

>>96743253
Because despite what they may think you can't kill a concept through wordplay because words aren't spells.
You can crush an idea, the British proved that, there's a reason slavery in the modern era is an almost universal crime and considered a key indicator of villainy.
But it wasn't done by 'Oh we're just not going to talk about it any more and the concept will fade'; it was done through blood and fire and steel and ships of iron men doing the work, based on a choice made by an entire nation to exert its will unto the world regardless of what the world had to say about it.

It was done through strength, not weakness, but they hate strength and worship weakness so they can't show the strong being right.

The correct way to remove Slavery from Pathfinder would be to have the rise of a radical cult of Desna in setting, a single adventure path where you're part of the Unchained, a group that proclaims 'A chain on one is a chain upon all' and then have you ramp up over time from dealing with slaver caravans to slaver camps to slaver kingdoms to toe-to-toe'ing one of Asmodeus Top Men who is the Quartermaster of slave logistics in Hell.

After that you could easily say 'Quite a lot of the groups who did slavery no longer do it as openly for fear of the guys that twisted the head off a mythic devil lord like a snapplecap, those who continue to do so do so on the low-key' without it coming across as bullshit.

Actually work for the thing, you know?

>>96743288
It was Lincoln who ended slavery you fucking mong. The British had nothing to do with it.

>>96743292
Jesus Christ.

Alright do me a favour Burgerclapnon.
Google the following things:
>West Africa Squadron
>Slave Trade Act 1807
>Somerset Case 1772
>Abraham Lincoln date of birth

See if you can put some puzzle pieces together.

>>96735822
Non-humans shouldn't be Paladins, it's gross.

>>96743286
Ah, so you are the kind that should be hang. Fair.

>>96743301
There were still slaves in the South you fucking retard.

>>96743292
>the world is just the US
the freed slaves the US transported back to africa started their own slave plantations

>>96743310
you shouldn't have left the empire then

>>96743315
We didn't leave the Empire. The Empire was conquered by us.

Oh and as always
>Lincoln ended slavery, he wuz a good bo-
Lincoln saw his chance to crush the south in a brutal and unnecessary war as part of an ongoing, classist policy of not permitting the southern states to garner enough power to challenge the northern ones. He feared the South becoming an industrial powerhouse and those Dixie bastards having enough capital to challenge the cultural hegemony of the Yankee north, a suppression that puts Aparthid to shame and has been rewritten in the history books from a genocide in line with what was done to the Native Americans to somehow being a good thing.

And if you don't believe me, riddle me this burgerclap:
Why didn't Lincoln just pay the Southern states restitution for the freeing of their slaves the same way the British did to their slaveowners? There was a peaceful solution to the Southern Question and Lincoln actively chose not to take it every step of the way.
And before you mouthbreath out something along the lines of 'Hurr, stupid redneck hillbilly southerner Lost Causer' in a chain of slurs that if pointed at any other group would make you ashamed to even hear let alone say it; not even a Burger, which is why I can look at your history with clear eyes.

>>96743349
>those levels of cope

Oh me oh my

>>96743363
>Doesn't have an answer
Enjoy that question quietly haunting you for the rest of your life, faggot.

>>96743264
>read up on none nazi stuff
Nein!

>>96743288
No, if Paizo's official strategy is to forget slavery, then why does their literally newest book focus on a planet of slaves? Stop changing the subject and answer the damn question you goal post moving relative nazi freak.

>>96743304
>should be hang
>be hang
how about you be learning English

>>96743403
>Nazi
Have some self-respect for once in your worthless existence.
Unless you think I'm the other guy who is talking about Nazi shit in which case, wrong person retard-kun.

And let's see.
>Adventure path set on Eox
>Planet of slaves
Planet of undead you mean, unless you're trying to be glib and argue undead = slavery in which case, don't be even more of a retard than you already are, we both know there's enough of a degree of separation between the two concepts Mostly that Zombies aren't black outside of the Thriller music video that they don't make the connection.

>>96743407
I use the mongrel tongue only because of its popularity, not merit. Now end yourself nazi shit.

>>96743497
>I use the mongrel tongue
Well, your choices are harlot's tongue or mongrel's cant. You seem to lack the ability in both, thoughbeit.

>>96743497
how about you make yourself scare from the mongrel internet, abstain from mongrel electronics and stop taking mongrel medicine
you know for the chairman and that ché dude

>>96743514
>tries to lecture others
>posts the lowest mongrel scum to ever exist

>>96743529
None of those belong to you. You share nothing but a faulty language with those who invented and created those things. So how about you fuck off?

>>96743544
>mongrel scum
>Hitler
I know they don't teach you that in communist school anymore, but words have meanings and Hitler was as pure as Austrians (Celto-Germano-Slavic nation) get.

>>96743555
Hid breed has nothing to do with him being subhuman mongrel. His actions stripped him of any heritage. Which, in real world and not nazi jerkoff cartoon, was mixed.

>>96743544
annon why even come here?
you don't like the language, you don't like the people, you don't like the hobby
just turn of your computer

>>96743576
>you don't like the people

I love people. I detest nazis. Which are not people.

>>96743581
Here here!

>>96743581
You're only upset because your bastard child went off and became a stripper. If Fascism had an even half-decent reputation you and every other faggot Tankie would be simping for it the same way you impromptu-prostate-exam over 'Socialism with Chinese characteristics'

At least those of us in the civilized West can say we have a principle based reason to despise the Fascist, you meanwhile hate them because they are the Heretic, formed from a religious schism in the temple, which is the only thing worse than the Heathen.

>>96743434
>undead = slavery
So, you're illiterate then? The undead are the slave OWNERS. They OWN the living and make them complete in reality TV until they die. I literally said this already and you ignored it.

>>96743581
again why be here I'm sure you can find some commy tanky tranny hugbox in what ever language you speak to go and discus roleplay
but jet you are here exposing your self to nazis speaking a mongrel language
also insisting that English is a mongrel language hints that you attach value to purity a trait you'd very much share with the nazis

>>96743434
>Zombies aren't black
What, are black people immune to zombie viruses and necromancy now?

>>96743609
>'It's slavery!'
More imprisonment, and let's cut through the bullshit here.
Their problem isn't slavery, their problem is having parallels with American Chattel Slavery
Anything else that's slavery is perfectly fine because, in their eyes, it isn't slavery.

>>96743618
Brothers got access to voodoo, who are you going to try and put a necromantic curse on, Mwalaganga who pays his local witch doctor 4 chickens a year for the anti-becoming-a-zombie subscription package or Johnny Smith from Accounting who doesn't even believe in Baron Samedi?

>>96743601
Commies deserve the same rope as nazis. But keep flailing you mong.

>>96743612
I've been here longer than you /pol/ tourists. I don't care about trannies. They have nearly zero impact on anything. Nazis on the other hand are subhuman filth. That deserves the rope.

>>96743646
>Commies deserve the same rope as Nazis
Oh well carry on the-
>I don't care about trannies. They have nearly zero impact on anything.
Oh you little rascal, you thought you could get away with that.
You all deserve the rope by the way.
The difference being your Ilk put it on willingly.

>>96743601
>At least those of us in the civilized West
Must be nice living in 1800's.

>>96743651
The only one whose gonna be swinging is you, nazi maggot.

>>96743646
>I've been here longer than you
you clearly haven't been here long enough to pick up proper English
and had you been here so long you'd know that bumping into people with "extreme" views is the norm here
no you whose to stay in the company of nazis speaking a mongrel language because you like it here more than where ever else you could be and what ever else you could be doing.
the nazis being here is a part of why you are here. is the nazis weren't here is would just be leddit without the upvoterinos
you are here because the nazis are part of the sauce who's flavour you can't get anywhere else and certainly not in your native not "mongrel" language

>>96743671
Good luck lifting my fat capitalist ass off the ground with those weak, HRT-wasted arms of yours.

>>96743680
I don't give a single fuck about proper English.
I'm aware of nazis being here. Doesn't make them any less of worthless scum deserving of a bullet.
You delude yourself into thinking that you /pol/ subhumans are some integral part of this site. Which is just shows how much of a tourist you are. You aren't needed. Anywhere. Just remove yourself from the gene pool.

>>96743694
Pulleys and leverage, my man.
Pulleys and leverage!

>>96743694
Nobody is lifting you. We chose the pigs that we don't care about and let the feast. Allow you to transcende into what you truly are. Refuse.

>>96743712
so you come here to seek nazis
just admit it and be honest with yourself, it's the least you can do
it will probably also help with anger and inferiority issues you have

>>96743721
Man I'm not standing around waiting for you a member of your bi-gender polytwink anarchosyndicalist commune that actually knows how to set up a pully.
I'd die of old age before you found someone that useful.

>>96743723
>He's devolved into completely incomprehensible copium
I'm sure you do lil buddy.

>>96743728
You shit up every board with your subhuman filth. I just react to your sorry existence.

>>96743733
Good talk future mulch.

>>96743628
>"It's not slavery! We just don't let them ever leave and beat them of they don't do the labor!"

>>96743737
>Good talk future mulch.
Demoralization is buckbreaking on a spiritual level. You have undergone it and I have little interest in what's farted out of your gaping, flapping Tariq Nasheed hole in the aftermath.

>>96743733
Look here, the people came for a fun outing, so a good lynching is what they're going to get!

>>96743746
Whatever makes you feel good. Say hello to Charlie.

>>96743746
>I have little interest
>But I have fawned over your posts
>and will keep replying for the next thirty minutes!
Sure you do, lil buddy

>>96743737
you seek to react to it, it is what drags you trough your days
you are nothing without a nazi to rail against just like a nazi is nothing without a jew to rail against
you and him are the same
and if you wonder what the difference between me an you is. in an hour or so I'm off work and I'll go home and enjoy my evening maybe paly some stardewvalley idk.
I'll not think of you one moment more because you are just a bit of boredom filler for me
but to you your seeth is what drives you, what makes your day

>>96743747
Yeah well I've got other places to be. Good luck stopping me, I can keep up a comfortable pace with at least 12 of you godless vegans hanging off me.
The great benefit of Chestertonmaxxing isn't even the literature, it's the physique.

>>96743756
>and if you wonder what the difference between me an you is. in an hour or so I'm off work and I'll go home and enjoy my evening maybe paly some stardewvalley idk.
As the chap he keeps insisting is a Nazi who isn't. Same, it's always such a delight winding Tankies up because you know it ruins their day slightly more than pointing out what a failure their ideology is but slightly less than any conversation about their parents, lmao

>>96743759
>12 of you godless vegans hanging off me.
Vegan? The smokers been going all morning.
I think the snuff done fucked up your olfactory senses, phoneposter-kun

>>96743756
Cool projection. Not gonna make you any less pathetic.
The difference is I don't have to advertise how much better off my life is. But whatever is gonna make sleep well.

>>96743779
>The difference is I don't have to advertise how much better off my life is.
Fucking got'im.
Between that and the line of "this question will HAUNT you", there is a reeking desperation to be remembered.

>>96743792
Again, cool projection. Don't pat yourself too hard on the back.

just play a chinaman setting

>>96743288
Didn't Pathfinder Society had a biiiig campaign focusing on ending institutionalised slavery?

>>96743292
One of the primary stated goals (you can interpret this as much as you want and state it was just a justification for white supremacy, but it was still both stated and implemented, so they at least pretended to care about it) of the "civilizing mission" was White British men abolishing the slave trade in regions where the native population started it.

>>96728101
The Joker scared them - people sympathized with the bad character they weren't supposed to like. What if they sympathize with the racists or the slavers? OMFG

>>96731525
>I don't agree with it, but there is a logical thought process behind it.

Gotta' love watching people try to argue with you, and you getting sucked into playing Devil's Advocate on this one.

But yeah, this is just more "the art -is- the artist" nonsense, forcing publishers and writers to self-censor for fear of offending people. In 2025 D&D/Pathfinder, there are no evil races (or races at all), and adventures consist of pie baking competitions and equally non-controversial topics (next year the baking is considered a microaggression as it's non-Vegan (and you -will- capitalize the V!)).

>>96743128
How do I convince My group to play as the most loyal knights of either of these dark lords?

>>96744019
Nah, PF has no issues with still publishing 'evil' stuff. "Prey for Death" is the PCs being assassins and killing a deity. Kind of blows the narrative out of the water.

>>96744520
Start a villain protagonist campaign where the characters need to perform tasks for/act as bodyguards for a promising but swayable dark lord (think of Anakim or Paul Atreides in their respective bad endings) and have opportunities to influence his future goals through advice, if they play the game as if "evil" is a team defined as always fighting against "good" and nothing else reveal that their hirer became Lord Death Murderkill, if they unleash their inner FATALite then reveal that he became Chud Wightmail.

>>96737962
This.

Except the only reason they replaced drow is because of the WotCost lawyerism on 'drow'. They still have dark elves, because elves take on aspects of their environ - they have ancestry related feats for dark elves (usually related to the Netherworld).

>>96741475
Thank you.

>>96744571
Gonna try this, thanks. Have this cookie.

>>96744659
Hot piece of advice:
If they get Chud Wightmail as their Overlord?
Have him be from the settings equivalent of Italy or some other 'Are they really even white though?' local for maximum meme value.

>>96744687
I'm gonna make an army of wiggers too

>>96746610
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFnAt_I9STw

>>96727985 (OP)
Cause no one wanted to be the guy that writes about slavery. Next question.

>>96747635
>Cause no one wanted to be the guy that writes about slavery
Meanwhile some games, ones that aren't made by Californian vagina-men, actually have rules for buying and owning slaves.
Go figure.

>>96731525
>There's no such thing as an anti-war film" is a known problem in filmmaking.
What faggot thinks this?

>>96733922
>>96733996
>>96734062
>I'M A VICTIM! I'M A VICTIM!
Anyone pretending violence hasn't been ongoing for longer than they've been alive about any issue is a liar and a fraud.

>>96743745
Congratulations anon, you just described prison.

>>96748749
nobody likes talking about it, but american prisons are in fact slave camps and rape camps.

>>96744570
None of it really comes off very evil though. They had an entire 1-20 campaign set in Geb... and the most "evil" you realistically do is become politicians. It turns into the same ol' save-the-world plot, just this time you're saving the Lawful Evil nation instead.

>>96727985 (OP)
I'm not gonna lie to y'all folks, I'm a literal woke tranny and like, I honestly have an issue with this myself in my writing, like I do not want to present a sanitized world, I want to make my villains evil and I want to make things like, reasonably realistic, but at the same time, I just, as an author, happen to be a bit of a pussy-ass bitch, and feel uncomfortable writing about the topic.
Like, I need to be able to make hateable villains who do contemptible things but like, I just feel weird writing about shit like slavery and rape and genuine evil, it makes my skin crawl having to think about it and the implications of including those things into how I build my world.

I personally have been getting around it by having slavery in my world be a penal labor system as a punishment for criminals, and have it be an objectively (Lawful) Evil institution full of corruption and potential abuse, so I can make woke meta-commentary about the prison-industrial complex and subject my players to it when they become victim of it. (Prison break dungeons are fun to design and ambushing prisoner transport wagons makes a good source of new recruits for the party)
The reason proper chattel slavery is not present is right now just kinda handwaved under religious institutional beliefs supporting bonded labor in the form of prisoners being used as a workforce but not allowing complete people-as-property type slavery.

>>96743628
>their problem is having parallels with American Chattel Slavery
>Anything else that's slavery is perfectly fine because, in their eyes, it isn't slavery.
Are there any good examples of TTRPGs which feature a rome-like system of "slave" essentially being a social class lower than plebeian, which you could enter and leave during your life but probably wouldn't leave?

>>96749069
I'm curious to know - because this is something that especially bothers Me with modern writing in general - do you have any issue writing your villains committing wanton acts of violence, murder, etc.?

If so, how are you able to shrug off "Then he kills 400 people" but flinch at "Then he gropes the barmaid"? Maybe an exaggeration, maybe you don't write exactly that way, but I feel like in general people draw such a weird arbitrary line in things like this when it comes to morality. Like, a lot of the kind of players who will insist on starving goblin children to death tend to be the same ones nowadays who'll leave the game if your VILLAIN makes an unwanted flirty comment to an NPC.

>>96727985 (OP)
I admit I've been out of the scene for a decent while, so perhaps I'm missing something but how do you REMOVE this? Like what's stopping you from just having your players enter a mine where the villain has a bunch of villagers chained up and shit's all Temple of Doom. Like okay official modules and sources want to dance around it, that's pretty gay but after any amount of time you really should be writing your own shit. Sooooooo have slaves?

>>96749320
I've heard the argument that some things like sex stuff can feel, and this isn't my explanation, "too real." Which if we're being completely fair I can at least KIND OF understand, if I don't agree. It's like when you blow up Alderan it's basically a statistic but Jaba making Leia his slave is a bit more "personal." Personally I think it all being fictional is enough of a divide but this is the argument.

>>96749337
you don't, it's just idiots spreading outrage brain infections to each other

>>96749069

>I just feel weird writing about shit like slavery and rape and genuine evil, it makes my skin crawl

What I see in woke morality is two opposing forces - one, genuine feelings of disgust and conscience towards actually evil acts, and two, the ideology that all explicit formulations and explanations of morality are explicitly created as socio-normative tools of oppression. Therefore, woke people push against culturally normative morality as a revolutionary duty, and leave moral action to be defined as a dialectical response to normative morality. Implied, is that morality cannot be described, and any prescription of morality is either oppression, complicity with oppression, or revolution.

So, humor me with these following possibility.

The problem is, what happens when your moral feelings align with normative morality? Normative morality says that rape and slavery is bad.

If you agree, you're either an oppressor, or complicit in the oppression of the entire frame of normative morality.

In order to fulfill revolutionary duty, you must revolt against this moral point. But it cannot be done, because your moral feelings align with the normative morality.

So, there's ideological paralysis in being able to depict rape as bad, because that would require affirming normative morality.

This might not be the real reason for you or other woke people, but I think there's something to that idea.

I also have another idea about why woke writers don't make villains who address trans protagonists in their non-preferred pronouns, and such.

(cont, 1/2)

>>96749628
>Any prescription of morality is either oppression, complicity with oppression or revolution
This is not true for wokies though, they champion a modified moral framework, not total opposition to morality. I share your doubt about their integrity but at least don't dress your strawman argument in fancy pseudo intellectual verbal decorations.

Tldr
>Hitler liked painting
>A Jew likes painting
>Therefore he is at odds about his hobby
No.

>>96749069
>>96749628
>>(2/2)

But, most people who write fiction do not write them such that different characters in said fiction have different ideas of what is fundamentally real. If they do, it's usually window dressing that is irrelevant to the plot, and they tacitly agree to the average obvious worldview that all characters share.

In the woke worldview, someone's self-identification is a matter of metaphysical fact. If you identify as a woman, you objectively are a woman.

A villain who addresses a trans protagonist with pronouns that match their biological gender, rather than their self-identification, would be as nonsensical as writing a villain who believes that 1 + 1 = 3. This is directly at odds with the idea that the villain must be at least baseline sane, in order to be baseline competent in order to achieve their villainy.

This is a problem that's only created because, in the woke worldview, it's impossible for there to be an objectively correct worldview. This is at odds with the fact that in a fictional narrative, an objectively correct reality is (usually) assumed by the author, which organises each character in the narrative coherently.

Because it's impossible for there to be an objectively correct worldview, then there can't be any moral or narrative import to the fact that the villain could have a distorted view of basic reality. In the objective reality assumed by the author, there is no objective reality - therefore you cannot be evil for failing to align with the objective reality that the author has assumed. You cannot be baseline competent and align with 1 + 1 = 3, and you cannot be baseline competent and address a trans protagonist by their biological gender.

Woke villains can't misgender, because the woke author is in a position of a demiurge that metaphysically prevents the minds of any creature trapped in their narrative from contradicting the metaphysical laws of their realm. Heresy is ontologically impossible.

>>96749644

> they champion a modified moral framework,

You quoted the part that addresses your point. The modified moral framework is revolutionary. It doesn't stand on its own - it's defined explicitly in opposition to an oppressor morality.

>>96734109
Damn sounds like this Hitler guy was really bad at arguing.

>>96749696
This is the ultimate villain archetype.

>>96749684
>It doesn't stand on it's own
Yeah, totally no one ever had different perspectives on the same topics.
You can have a Jew, Muslim and Christian agree that murder is bad, but for example argue about the proper way to do alms. Their beliefs however stand on their own, they don't rely on one another.

You commit a mistake of seeing your opposition as a Satan, a fallen angel who can't function without God to oppose. It's simply untrue.

>>96749628
You're overthinking it.

It boils down to something far simpler: wokies are so retarded they view reality as if it were fiction ("we're just like the Rebellion/Dumbledore's Army, that males you Voldemort, aka liberal atheist Satan! We'll win because that's how stories go!") and treat fiction like reality ("ermmm, did that drawing CONSENT to you drawing it lewdly? Big yikes, you DO know that depictions of rape and slavery are lowkey tacit endorsements of these actions, riiiiight?")

>>96749722

I understand that you think that I'm strawmanning woke beliefs, and want to treat them fairly - I am legitimately doing the exact opposite. Wokeism is based on revolutionary Marxism. Revolutionary Marxism fundamentally is based on dialectical materialism, which is an offshoot of Hegelian dialectic.

I am not strawmanning dialectical materialists by saying that their ideas do not stand on their own. They believe that their own ideas don't stand on their own, because they believe that NO ideas stand on their own. They believe ALL ideas are a result of reacting to material conditions and dialectical opposition to previous ideas.

This is a completely different worldview to Judaism, Islam, or Christianity, which have the origin of their worldview in an eternal God that internally provides the basis for believing that their worldview stands on its own, because it stands on eternal and unchangable foundation.

You would be grossly mischaracterising and misunderstanding woke belief if you thought they thought their beliefs were of eternal and unchangeable value. They believe the concept of eternal and unchangeable values are a lie designed by the oppressor classes to justify their position as oppressors, by making their oppression justifiable from all eternity.

>>96749628
>>96749679
I don't really understand this considering how left/liberal media does talk about these issues without doing what you describe (which is to say, sanding off the edges of everything). When I see people talk about this supposed problem the left has, the examples that always get brought up are children's media and young adult fiction, which have different media restrictions based on various cultural mores. I don't see this often in media for adults, which will depict bigotry in service of its story. You could argue that tabletop games have often moved towards YA-style fiction in recent years (as an attempt to capture a younger audience, no doubt), but I'm not exactly seeing this sort of hands-off no-bigotry-allowed writing from other forms of media written by left-liberals. The Baru Cormorant books certainly don't pull its punches in regards to homophobia directed at the main protagonist, or Euphoria in regards to anti-LGBT bigotry, Peacemaker in regards to the titular character's Klansman father, and so on.

>>96749728

>they view reality as if it were fiction, and treat fiction like reality

Pretty much what I said here >>96749679

>>96749728
See, again with the YA fiction. I'm starting to see a pattern here, which is assuming all people on the left act like a stereotypical Goodreads user/"BookTok" poster.

>>96749755

>The examples that always get brought up are children's media and young adult fiction, which have different media restrictions based on various cultural mores.
>You could argue that tabletop games have often moved towards YA-style fiction in recent years

That's a a fair point for the general case, but it doesn't address it happening in tabletop RPGs that are aimed at more-mature-than-YA audiences, like White Wolf games, or Tabletop RPG adjascent media like Critical Role/Dimension 20 where all the players not infrequently make far-raunchier-than-YA sex jokes at the table.

>>96749762
No, you're still overthinking it. They use fiction as propaganda and thus it must match their ideal reality as close as possible. This includes the "no villains" shit, since many of them earnestly believe that everyone can be "treated" (read: brainwashed and converted) with therapy and hugging.

Just look at the way they treat violent criminals with such leniency while locking away political adversaries in solitary confinement for 4 years with no trial.

>>96749793
YA books are just femporn at this point, anon. Critical Roll is tame as fuck compared to the average romantasy YAslop aimed at pubescent girls.

>>96749793
I think its mostly that tabletop RPG writers are often drawn from YA/comic book writers these days. More "serious" writers probably demand a higher paycheck and/or want to work with more original content than the well-trod paths of DND and WoD.

I also think that a lot of these companies are terrible at communicating that X-Card/Threads/Veils/Whatever stuff and topics to avoid is specifically for people you don't know at all. I can trust my players with a game of Star Wars where we're all Imperial agents, but I might not know if the guy I meet in a FLGS is normal or is into the Imperials because they remind him of a certain other political group into wearing lots of black leather.

>>96743321
I will not deny the UK is no better than a Vassal to the US but conquered? Fuck off. The US gained their power by hiding from both world wars on the other side of the world, letting the superpowers at the time weaken each other and then swooping in at the end to pick up the pieces with a heavy helping of betraying your allies.

Fair play to a masterful way to upend the global hierarchy but yanks need to stop larping like they are combat ubermench who got their power through military conquest when history shows the US are actually quite shit at war. It reeks of an inferiority complex.

>>96749247
>Are there any good examples of TTRPGs which feature a rome-like system of "slave" essentially being a social class lower than plebeian, which you could enter and leave during your life but probably wouldn't leave?
ACKS has rules that cover such things and a Roman style campaign setting.

>>96743310
>>96743310
The US isn't the world, you both are retarted.
The British stopped slavery in large parts of the world, yes, but there are more slaves today than there ever were during the Trans-Atlantic slave trade - like usual, it's just the Arabs doing the slaving again.

>>96743581
>I detest nazis
Unless you're 90 years old or some kinda time traveler, you haven't earned the right to cry about nazis. You don't even have neonazis to bitch about, since all of them are either controlled opposition or getting pasted in Ukraine.

No, what YOU call nazis are people like milquetoast center-right debate bros or small business owners trying to keep their livelihoods from being burned and looted because of a government-endorsed chimpout over a fentanyl addict.

>>96749890
>It reeks of an inferiority complex.
That's quite the cope you've talked yourself into. The USA spends 39% of all the money spent on militaries in all the world, on ours. History is irrelevant.

>>96750365
How much were they spending when they got their cheeks clapped by rice farmers?

>>96750389
Who cares?

>>96734109
Funny part this perfectly describes how Nazis, including Hitler, argue.

>>96749967
>No, what YOU call nazis are people like milquetoast center-right debate bros or small business owners trying to keep their livelihoods from being burned and looted because of a government-endorsed chimpout over a fentanyl addict.
So, exactly like the original Nazis?

>>96751104
Correct. It's just a brief intro to populist rhetoric.

Play stupid. Quote platitudes. Distract. Lose an argument? Make it again, but louder. Deny ever losing. Keep lying until someone believes you.

>>96751131
Most of Hitler's quotes about Jews literally describes behavior he engaged in. It's kind of funny when you start noticing.

>>96751148
I wouldn't really know. Can't say I've ever given a flying fuck what Hitler thought.

>>96751156
I've read enough of his quote to understand his "problems" with Jews were just him projecting.

>>96751148
I mean he was one of them, at least ethnically, if not culturally. Besides, the fundamental tricks of public debate and crowd persuasion haven't really changed since antiquity, modern media just give them more convenient format and much wider reach.

>>96727985 (OP)
Generally slavery is just kind of lazy as a plot point. Actually going into slavery as a institution isn't something most TRPG players want. And while it certainly makes the villain evil, like rape it also removes any real nuance or complexity. It's like all of the Isekai where the villains are just evil elf rapists for the player to mindlessly slaughter. It's boring. Same reason why always chaotic evil races are boring.

>what do they do that's actually bad
Awnsering that question is generally what gives a villain depth.

>>96749380
God, these people are retarded.

>>96751279
>like rape it also removes any real nuance or complexity
So what? Sometimes it's fun to have an evil bastard villain who is just purely unapologetically an evil bastard.

>>96751623
It's fun if the villain is fun. A lot of pure evil characters are carried by their actors. Or they are simply written to be charismatic and enjoyable to watch despite being evil.

Just making somebody evil is not hard. I'll go so far as to say it's pretty easy. It's a tool and one that can be used poorly or well.

>>96751623
>So what?
So most people aren't interested. You wanna get together with your bros around a dinner table, and make believe you're raping and enslaving people as you try to hide your little boners behind your character sheets? Go for it, anon. But it's really not that hard to understand why other people aren't interested.

>>96749699
>Has a chance at honest victory but gives it up because "Win if you can, lose if you must, but always cheat!"

>>96751741
Shades of grey "nuance" is so overplayed that any kind of straightforward character is automatically more interesting. A hero who's just a good person without a secret dark motive or dark past or dark mistakes or is being tricked into doing dark things is more interesting than a "nuanced" hero who is any or all of the above. The unironic bad guy who's just selfish and uncaring is more interesting than a misguided would-be good guy who feels like he has to do bad for good reasons. It's so overdone.

>>96751833
He was based on Professor Fate from the Great Race. When the Professor ends up winning (because the hero throws the race), he indignantly demands a rematch because he refuses to accept a victory he didn't win on his own dishonest terms.

>>96752085
It isn't because character dynamics make a story fun. If a character is just evil, it's hard to have any kind of dynamic.

>>96751104
Nazis prefered to argue by shooting their enemies dead. Certainly an effective argument.
>>96751156
>>96751166
>>96751170
Nice pride parade you got going, faggots.

>>96752097
If the only dynamic they have is "haha, you were wrong and the bad guy is actually morally complicated! Feel bad!", then that's not an interesting dynamic. It's just a cliche.

>>96752085
So play the games you want to play at your table, anon. No one's stopping you. You aren't gonna argue the rest of us into thinking "let's play make beleive about rape and slavery" sounds fun.

>>96752164
>Trying to shame people over not praising hitler
Post-irony has hit a pathetic low. You understand that you're why terms like "the ick" needed inventing, right?

>>96743349
>Maybe dropping out of school at 12 was not a good idea anon.

>>96751279
>Generally slavery is just kind of lazy as a plot point.
That's a GM issue.
>Actually going into slavery as a institution isn't something most TRPG players want.
Correct. Players are lazy and want to be spoonfed marvel tier morality so they can be the good guys even when they are being "bad".
>And while it certainly makes the villain evil, like rape it also removes any real nuance or complexity
Why does a villain need to be complex? The best villains are objectively and philosophically morally evil.
>It's like all of the Isekai where the villains are just evil elf rapists for the player to mindlessly slaughter.
We already established this is basically what players want.
>It's boring.
It's not.
>Same reason why always chaotic evil races are boring.
GM issue again.
>>>what do they do that's actually bad
>Awnsering that question is generally what gives a villain depth.
Slavery and rape are bad. Answering why they do these things gives your villain depth.
Villains don't need to be misguided anti-heros who "go to far" or lame duck Saturday morning cartoon bad guys who won't heckin do a racism because even they are not that evil! Villains should be unapologetically evil. There shouldn't be any doubt in your players minds that the villain needs to be stopped and that their machinations, whatever they are will have negative consequences.

>>96752649
And yet you still have no answer.
Oh and of course
>I believe exactly what I'm told without thinking, that makes me clever and you, who is asking questions I can't answer, stoopid
Here's your (you), don't spend it all in one place.
You can @ me again when you actually have an answer to my question.

>>96743349
For what it's worth, abolitionists mostly hated the idea of restitution because it tacitly acknowledged the idea that slaves were ever property at all rather than people being subject to false imprisonment, which is why the way Britain handled it is considered a bit of an embarrassment today. On a practical level, slavery was such an entrenched part of Southern economics and culture that it's doubtful many slaveholders would've taken the deal anyway.

>>96752169
>you were wrong and the bad guy is actually morally complicated!
No? It's fun to have a villain with actual believes. Even if it just means the MC or players can tell them to fuck off.

>>96752833
>Ideologues don't like thing that doesn't fit their ideologueology
And? The reality is they were property at the time.
>The way Britain handled it is considered a bit of an embarrassment today
By who? The mentally and spiritually sub-par? I've never heard a single person who wasn't elbowing for some victim points call it that.

>>96752658
>Why does a villain need to be complex? The best villains are objectively and philosophically morally evil.
Like? What are good villains for you?

>We already established this is basically what players want.
Depends on the group and the game. Most of my games tend to lean towards lighthearted, so the villains are typically misguided troublemakers or weirdo eccentrics. Even when I do run more serious games the villains are typically at least somewhat complex if only to give the players somebody to talk to.

>Saturday morning cartoon bad guys who won't heckin do a racism because even they are not that evil!
They could not do racism because they genuinly aren't racist. Same reason why they might not do slavery or rape.

>>96752922
>By who?
The british people.

>>96752966
Re-read the post you first replied to. I am the British People and I can tell you that no one over here who isn't our equivalent of the subhumans you have in California, or angling for reparations (or both) is ashamed of how we handled ending slavery.

Faced with something that could benefit us greatly, or doing the right thing, we chose to act on principle, though it cost us allies in Africa and so much money that we only stopped paying it off in 2010.

To give you a comparison, it was the equivalent of if you (assuming you're an American here) found a letter by George Washington saying that Private Prisons are bullshit and rather than making excuses to continue benefitting from their existence, you immediately closed them all down and declared war on the very concept of them, to the point where you crushed the idea itself out of common usage.

We have nothing to be ashamed of and I've never met anyone who was.

>>96752996
>I am the british people
No, you are one person. Most people in Brittain generally find the whole thing rather embarasing.

>>96752996
Oh and a proviso here.
If you come back to me with 'Yes but Jonty from Thruppingham-upon-Twatt is ashamed of it!' I'm going to ask you to name something about being British that Jonty isn't ashamed of and watch you stammer about tea, footie and Germanic-esq chest beating about ancestral shame.
>“In intention, at any rate, the English intelligentsia are Europeanized. They take their cookery from Paris and their opinions from Moscow. In the general patriotism of the country they form a sort of island of dissident thought. England is perhaps the only great country whose intellectuals are ashamed of their own nationality. In left-wing circles it is always felt that there is something slightly disgraceful in being an Englishman and that it is a duty to snigger at every English institution, from horse racing to suet puddings. It is a strange fact, but it is unquestionably true that almost any English intellectual would feel more ashamed of standing to attention during ‘God save the King’ than of stealing from a poor box. All through the critical years many left-wingers were chipping away at English morale, trying to spread an outlook that was sometimes squashily pacifist, sometimes violently pro-Russian, but always anti-British.”
>George Orwell, England Your England

>>96753029
Shame and self hatred is at the core of the British identity. Has nothing to do with leftism or intellectuals.

>>96753052
>Shame and self hatred is at the core of the British identity. Has nothing to do with leftism or intellectuals.
>'I, person outside the UK, know more about the UK culture than you do, person from the UK and you can't speak for everyone from your actual conversations with members of the public, but I can from observing the Intelligentsia at a distance'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR86maYvuUI
I don't know what to tell you anon, carry on I suppose.

>>96753072
Having a outsiders view on the matter can actually help, anon. Besides, George is British and he shares the sentiment.

>>96741475
>>96741921
>>96743001
>>96744626
What is with the art of this book

>>96752475
Of course, if you are a sane person, you will be heiling Hitler. Had he won, every settlement with more than 10 people in Western Europe wouldn't be indistinguishable from Mogadishu.

>>96752919

>It's fun to have a villain with actual believes.

If you had any empathy for actually evil people, you'd know that evil people have actual beliefs too. But you don't have empathy for people you consider actually evil - if you personally consider someone evil, they just become a faceless void to exterminate, and empathy becomes inapplicable to them.

>>96728216
So are the target audience.

>>96749380
>can feel, and this isn't my explanation, "too real."
>"too real."
Good lord, I detest the debasement of the English language. I appreciate it may not have been your turn of phrase, but the term is "visceral".

>>96754410
Why big word when small word work

>>96753917
Had he won the entire world would be a radioactive wasteland free of actual human civilization.

>>96757029
Is that would they teach you in Holocaust School?

>>96743128
>Filename
Now I want to see the two of them go to war.

>>96743292
Absolutely sublime bait, anon.

>>96749967
Nobody is crying about nazis. Disgust is not sadness.

Presidents of most of superpowers are okay with nazi methods in governence right now.

Neonazis while utterly shit subhumans just like the usual variety are very much present in most first world countries. Which is a shame.

>controlled opposition
And birds ain't real. Any more conspiracy theories?

>getting pasted in Ukraine
Yeah, those russians are getting mulched.

> what YOU call nazis are people like milquetoast center-right debate bros or small business owners

Charlie "I think I can debate, I can't dodge though" Kirk was spewing nazi shit and got what he deserved. Idgf about Georgie bad at breathing.

>>96757383
>Charlie "I think I can debate, I can't dodge though" Kirk was spewing nazi shit
Such as inviting trannies to his talks. His shooting was a homosexual on homosexual violence.

>>96757383
>Charlie "I think I can debate, I can't dodge though" Kirk was spewing nazi shit
Charles 'The homo' Kirke was very proud of his efforts to decriminalize homosexuality in Botswana. Niggers fucking each other in their arseholes was important to Kirke.

>>96757383
>Charlie "I think I can debate, I can't dodge though" Kirk was spewing nazi shit
I don't have pictures of Erika Kirk. But she has to be a beard. Older than Charles and uglier than sin.
Here's some pics of James "Jeet and Jew lover" Bowman.

>>96757392
Could have been. He talked nazi shit he got shot. Good ending.

>>96757396
>>96757401
Could be. Everyone knows the "master race" was faggy as fuck. Hitler was a sissy of highest magnitude.

>>96757405
Sorry, Herr Jewish from reddit. Didn't recognize you at a glance. Would you like a pointer to your way back?

>>96757417
>implying you have to be a kike to shit on Fagler

You tourist crack me up.

>>96757383
it's weird that people still use conspiracy theory as a dismissal when they keep turning out to be real

>>96757383
>Nobody is crying about nazis
>proceeds to cry about imaginary nazis

>>96757405
>gays are now nazis
I guess those muslims that shot up all those gay nightclubs were just valiant antifa Mujahideen martyrs

>>96757404
>He talked nazi shit
...such as....?

>>96757499
Name one

>>96757503
>no, you can't say bad things about le Trumperino and Charlie!

>>96757513
Not every gay is a nazi abut every nazi is a faggot

>>96757529
He spread the "niggas and women are stupid, gays are evil, muh jeebus is a based and the laws of one of the most powerful nations of the world should follow his teachings". You know, retarded nazi lite shit.

>>96757550
>He spread the "niggas and women are stupid, gays are evil, muh jeebus is a based and the laws of one of the most powerful nations of the world should follow his teachings"
Source?
>nazi lite
Oh so now he's a DIET nazi

>>96757550
>you can't say bad things about le Trumperino and Charlie!
Can you show me either of their SS affiliations? Surely they must have them if they're actual nazis, no?

>>96757550
>muh jeebus = nazi
The nazi party thought Christianity was cringe thobeight, they were on that neopagan cringelarp. Wiccans have more in common with nazi religious/spiritual beliefs than Christians.

This is basic stuff, I thought you commies were supposed to be educated.

>>96757550

>You know, retarded nazi lite shit.

You know, I had a small sliver of hope that at least one public conservative that was accused of being a nazi, was actually saying anything remotely close to nazism. Even when you're making shit up about what he says, you can't even bring yourself to make up him saying something like "I think we should give nazism another shot".

This is complete and total brain rot.

>>96757550
>Name one
smoking is unhealthy

>>96757550
>name one
Everything surrounding Covid/the vax
The democratic party was acti ely suppressing speech on social media platforms under Biden
The gay frog chemicals
The soviet monkey experiments
Eldar corsairs were originally meant to be ynnari line troops and slannesh was getting phased out of both AoS and 40K before the change in leadership

>>96757570
>The nazi party thought Christianity was cringe thobeight,
The Party did not. Himmler did, the rest, including Hitler, were mostly lapsed Catholics who had a problem with one of the interpretations of the Church's teachings (the one that leads to things like pic rel).

Reminder that the left/commies/antifa tortures puppies for fun and therefore there is literally nothing morally wrong with brutally murdering them as painfully and violently as possible.

>>96757628
>Reminder that the left/commies/antifa tortures puppies
Got a picture of "Dr" Anthony Fauci fucked up experiments on beagles?

>>96757633
No, but I've got this

>>96757559
Diet nazi is still nazi. Trying to make your bullshit more palpable to normies doesn't make it any less of a bulshit.

>>96757563
Are you going to play stupider than you actually are? Nazism has grown out of the Third Reich before Fagler was even dead.

>>96757570
That's why they've marched with Gott mit uns on their banners and were endorsed by papacy until the latter part of the war. If you're gonna lie at least try to sound genuine.

>>96757571
Yes, as we all know racial supremacy, restrictive traditional societal norms and nationalism have nothing to do with nazism!

>>96757577
It is, next question.

>>96757600

>Everything surrounding Covid/the vax

Bullshit. Just because you had some ghoul blabbering on the TV does not make vaccine lethal/unhelpful

>The democratic party was acti ely suppressing speech on social media platforms under Biden

Was never proven right.

>The gay frog chemicals

Kek. Unless you are being serious then lol.

>The soviet monkey experiments

Which ones?

>Eldar corsairs were originally meant to be ynnari line troops and slannesh was getting phased out of both AoS and 40K before the change in leadership


I don't suck dicks, can't tell you a thing about wh40k.

>>96757966
glad you agree

>>96757529
Whiteness.

>>96757155
>Is that would
Learn English, subhuman.

And it's a basic understanding of Hitler's goals, methods, and believes. He hated human civilization and sought to destroy it.

>>96757600
>Everything surrounding Covid/the vax
So... I'm dead?

>The democratic party was acti ely suppressing speech on social media platforms under Biden
Being banned from shitting in teh street is not censorship any more than right wingers being kicked off social media platforms.

>The gay frog chemicals
Myth.

>The soviet monkey experiments
Which one?

>Eldar corsairs were originally meant to be ynnari line troops and slannesh was getting phased out of both AoS and 40K before the change in leadership
I believe the latter but neither one was ever confirmed.

>>96754285
Most evil people don't believe in anything. They understands words purely in terms of the practical. They speak of family values because they know it sounds good, not because they actually believe in family values. They speak of truth not because they believe in truth, but because they understand what effect the word truth has on people.

> if you personally consider someone evil, they just become a faceless void to exterminate, and empathy becomes inapplicable to them.
Out of necessity, mostly. If you cannot reason with somebody then extermination is the only solution.

If you have to remove a colony of mice. Do you spend your time crying over every single mice? No, it's a matter of work. You can no more reason with evil people than you can reason with mice.

>>96758059
>And it's a basic understanding of Hitler's goals, methods, and believes.
beliefs, subhuman, lmao

>>96758089
Fair. Though it's way less egregious than your mistake.

>>96758093
not mine

>>96758076
you're talking about psychopaths, which do tend to be evil, but they're not the majority, most evil people have morals and complex emotions, they just convince themselves they're in the right somehow, usually by self-righteously labeling someone else or some group as evil

>>96758110
It depends. I'm sure a lot of evil people are like that, but having spoken with a lot of Nazis I've come to realize they don't actually believe in anything. Same is true for sexists, nationalists, etc.

>>96758116
extremists in general are like that, and since you're mentioning a lot of rightists i can assure you that leftist extremists are the exact same

>>96758125
Most left wing extremists generally actually believe in communism. They just take it way, WAY too far.

Ironically it's more people like Stalin that tend to fall into the camp of not really believing in anything. Trotsky was way more extreme than Stalin but you can tell he actually believed the stuff he was peddling. It was just VERY bloodthirsty and probably would have been unsustainable in the long term.

>>96758138
>Most left wing extremists generally actually believe in communism.
okay, but you just mentioned shit like nazis, sexists, and nationalists, all of which are beliefs of different sorts and vaguely fit the same mold as communism

>>96758144
Nazis don't believe in anything. They talk about loving a nation when they despise it. They talk about hating Jews when all of their behavior is exactly what they accuse Jews of doing. They talk about tradition when 99% of their views and behavior is going against anything actual traditional. If you look at their rhetoric and actions you largely have to conclude they are 1: Non sapient creatures that just say words without actually understanding them. 2: Genuinely mentally insane to the point they no longer understand reality. 3: Liars who just say whatever they need to say.

Sexists are mostly the same. They tend to sound less insane on average just because pointing out that men and women are not the same IS actually a valid point. It's still basically all double-think, hypocrisy, and a total lack of actual understanding of the world. But they can keep the mask up a bit longer. Nationalism is a spectrum, but on average the issue you are going to run into with most Nationalism is that it's kind of nonsense. The degree to which they are able to understand that tends to define how sane they come across. On average though a lot of nationalists are just grifters. Basically just a tiny minority justifying their conquests and exploitation of other people through vague cultural ties.

>>96758178
just because you think those things are wrong doesn't mean they don't believe them

>>96758186
It's not about sounding wrong, it's about the doublethink and general lack of coherency. Being a hypocrite isn't special. But it's another thing to openly state you believe in things that don't work together.

>>96758207
that doesn't change anything, just because you think the beliefs are hypocritical doesn't mean they also think so, and even if they did they could still have those beliefs, after all it's not like avoiding double standards is a universal value, just because you care about hypocrisy doesn't mean they do

you're defining belief on your own terms and acting anything that falls outside them isn't actual belief, but in reality people just believe whatever the fuck they want to

>>96758227
>, just because you think the beliefs are hypocritical doesn't mean they also think so,
Again, it's not about being hypocritical it's about the doublethink. Hypocrisy isn't special.

>but in reality people just believe whatever the fuck they want to
And most people believe in things that make sense. I might disagree, I might think they are wrong, but they are still coherent and understandable. Even religious mania, which I think is obviously wrong, is at least understandable. There is nothing understandable about the groups I described.

>>96758242
>And most people believe in things that make sense.
:)

>>96758246
Yes? Again, I might disagree or think they are wrong. But most people can explain their believes through a basic application of logic and reason. Nazis cannot, nationalists cannot, sexists cannot.

>>96758257
they make sense under their basic assumptions, just not under yours, and basic assumptions are always irrational

someone who falls under one of the examples you gave and thinks about the same way you do would think you believe in nothing

>>96757559
>he's a DIET naz
The person you're speaking to is demoralized anon. They're, and this is not hyperbolae on my part, incapable of my part, incapable of seeing the world as it is rather than as they've been told it is.

While it is tragic that this is the case, the only way the rest of us get out of this is once people like him are off the boat and back in the water with the sharks.
Until then he will continue attempting to drill holes in the bottom because he's been informed the boat is evil.
If you push him in the water and let the sharks partially consume him there's a maybe 25% chance that he'll pull his head out of his ass.
But the other 75% is him lying, claiming he learned his lesson then slyly lifting the power tools again so he can pick up where he left off.
And the worst part is you'll never know if he's lying or not since to him words aren't a means of communication, but rather, magic spells that let him do as he already intended to do. Right now he's attempting the spell Power Word: Nazi to justify murder only to find that people have built up spell resistance against it.

We cannot and should not have to live like this, just push him in the water and leave him.

>>96758178
>Nazis don't believe in anything
Where are all these nazis anon? Nazi Germany hasn't existed for 85 years. You're not one of those conspiracy theorists who think they occupy Antarctica or the dark side of the moon or something, are you? Next you'll tell me you're a flat-earther too.

>>96757966
>Diet nazi is still nazi
Keep moving those goalposts, sugaboo~

>>96757976
>Bullshit
Covid was proven to be manufactured
The vax had proven dangers that the WHO suppressed
The vax did not in fact stop you from contracting or spreading covid as originally claimed
>Was never proven right.
Youtube and facebook admitted as much, and Elon foubd back-channel chatter after he bought twitter
>Unless you are being serious then lol.
So chemical runoff does NOT in fact affect frogs. Lmao.

3 strikes and yer out. Thanks for playing!

>>96758076
>Most evil people don't believe in anything
Very ironic projection, coming from a leftist

>>96758354
>Where are all these nazis anon?
Neo Nazis. White nationalists. People that still believe in race science. Charles Kirk.

>>96758282
>Assumption
No, application of logic and reason. Not hard to understand.

>someone who falls under one of the examples you gave and thinks about the same way you do would think you believe in nothing
They wouldn´t because they would be unable to understand reality. 2 + 2 = 5 and all that.

>>96758396
>No, application of logic and reason. Not hard to understand.
all logic and reason needs to start from somewhere, and that starting point can't have been made with logic or reason itself since that would be circular

thus all logic and reason has an irrational assumption at its start

>>96758178
>Nazis don't believe in anything.
No, they do, they believe in revolutionary communism but without the world revolution. They're a direct result of the failings of the Revolutions of 1917–1923.

Fascism, at its core, is what the faggy and inane (You) would call a synergetic response to communism.
>Thesis: Communism is going to solve all our problems, hurrah!
>Anti-Thesis: Fuck it doesn't work in practice because you don't mine blast furnaces out of the earth, uh-um...
>Synthesis: Alright what if we tried seizing the true means of production? The human capital of a nation?
There's a reason that Fascism mirrors Socialism with Chinese Characteristics mirrors Stalinism, all are a response to the same, fundamental ideological failings of your prophet, Marx, in the fact the Working Class aren't the violent, feral sociopaths he imagined. Anything after the collapse of the Second International is merely an attempt to save the religion by going 'No-no, we're not Mormons, we're 2nd branch division of the Temple of Joseph Smith, we believe that the angels actually wrote the fundamental truths on crackers which Smith ate, which is why no one has ever seen them, see, there's no hole in the ideology, just minor disagreements :)'

If you win and good luck with that you bastard, you and everyone you love will be gone in the first purge as the useful retards always are. And if that ever happens? I want you to think back on this moment and consider that the mean ol' liberals tried to save you from yourself despite everything you did to them.
Cope about it.

>>96758396
>Neo Nazis.
So....not nazis
>White nationalists.
So....still not nazis.
>People that still believe in race science.
TIL black israelites, BLM, and yakubians are nazis
>Charles Kirk.
You still haven't saud what makes him a nazi.

Then again, you've just proven you don't know what a nazi even is.

>>96758410
>all logic and reason needs to start from somewhere
Yes, it's called reality.

If I have two apples, and I give a apple to somebody else, I have one apple. You can argue the term apple is made up, but there is a physical object we are using. That object and the interaction between those objects is the fundamental basis of logic and reason.

>>96758422
>No, they do, they believe in revolutionary communism but without the world revolution.
Then that is directly in contradiction to their methods and other stated goals. None of their goals were actually in socialist in nature. They were, in fact, explicitly pro capitalist to the extent that they engaged in massive amounts of privatization and largely sought to empower local nobility to a extent not seen since the end of feudalism. Which was their stated goal as well.

>>96758440
>Not nazis
Look up what Neo means

>So....still not nazis.
Same believes, same mental illness, same solution.

>TIL black israelites, BLM, and yakubians are nazis
No shit they do. I mean, probably not BLM since they largely denounce actual race science.

>You still haven't saud what makes him a nazi.
Believe in whiteness.

>>96758422
>If you win and good luck with that you bastard, you and everyone you love will be gone in the first purge as the useful retards always are
Yeah, the first thing that happened when Lenin won is that he shot himself in the head.

>>96758485
>Yes, it's called reality.
you don't perceive objective reality, you only subjectively interpret it

>there is a physical object we are using
yes, and that would be an example of an irrational starting assumption, you just picked an apple arbitrarily for it

now what do you do when someone else has an entirely different starting assumption? not even necessarily an object? claim that your assumption is better even though neither of you have any way of making such a claim?

>>96758497
>Look up what Neo means
So New York is the same thing as York?
>Same believes
Beliefs, my little ESL-kun
And wrong
>No shit they do.
So black people are nazis, gotcha.
>Believe in whiteness.
What does it even mean to believe in whiteness? Can you even describe whiteness and how it applies to a man who built a multiracial political coalition?

>>96757976
>admits xhe's a nogames political agitator
Lmao, turns out all those fags crying /pol/ tourist at the slightest disagreement were just projecting

>>96758513
>you don't perceive objective reality, you only subjectively interpret it
That is where reason comes in.

You need both logic and reason.

>yes, and that would be an example of an irrational starting assumption
No? There is a object there. If you jump off a cliff, you will die. Physically reality always wins.

>now what do you do when someone else has an entirely different starting assumption?
I lock them up because they are obviously mental insane. If somebody tries to jump off a cliff because they think they´ll be fine, they are crazy and should be locked up.

>>96758485
>They were, in fact, explicitly pro capitalist to the extent that they engaged in massive amounts of privatization
Into the hands of members of the Party you mean?
Man it's almost like they, as an entity, did some sort of seizure of the means by which the country produced its goods.
What happened, out of interest, to capitalists who didn't do as they were told?
>Well the camps-
Jolly good notice.
There was no private ownership in Nazi Germany because you, the human being reading this with your own two eyeballs, would have been owned by the state, eyeballs included.
A slave does not own the bed in which he sleeps, even if it's called his bed and no one else uses it.

>>96758508
>I'm Lenin!
Please, you're not even Trotsky, you'd be in a mass grave marked 'Misc. Wreckers/Reactionaries'

>>96758520
>So New York is the same thing as York?
No, but cities are not ideologies.

>And wrong
Explain the difference.

>So black people are nazis
Not all black people are Black Israelites.

>What does it even mean to believe in whiteness?
It is a believe that whiteness is real. And a emphasis on the importance of whiteness.

>>96758545
>Into the hands of members of the Party you mean?
No? Into the hands of the people who funded teh party. Mostly private industrialists with no real ideologically or political connection other than the money they invested into the Nazi party as a project.

>did some sort of seizure of the means
There wasn´t a seizure of teh means. It was the exact same actors owning the exact same means and property, just more of it in most cases.

>What happened, out of interest, to capitalists who didn't do as they were told?
Nothing. Because they weren't being persecuted and the continual rule of the Nazis was depended on industrialists having a dominant position in German society.

>There was no private ownership in Nazi Germany because you, the human being reading this with your own two eyeballs, would have been owned by the state, eyeballs included.
Nobody was owned by the state. They were owned by companies, which were privately owned. Even Nazi Germany, which actively sought to destroy all of human civilization, couldn´t change that. Italy didn´t even bother. Mussolini´s Italy in practice was basically a military dictatorship sharing power with northern industrialists.

>>96758587
>Into the hands of the people who funded the party
Inches, mere inches away from getting it. Let's see if I can gently coax the blind here.
What do you call a person who fully supports a political party, pays for it, resources it and is in turn given special, exclusive benefits by the party?
I'll give you a hint, if I called you a cock then you could look it up under synonyms.

>He's using teh
Behave yourself.

>>96758545
>but cities are not ideologies
Ideologies cannot undergo reformations and permutations? Someone better tell the sunnis and shiites they've just been sillybillies for thousands of years, to say nothing of protestants or mormans.
>Explain the difference.
It's not my job to educate you, but I'll give you a hint: you could have a wignat democracy but not a nazist democracy
>Not all black people are Black Israelites.
They all believe in Blackness, therefore they're all nazis abd should be shot in the neck according to you.
>whiteness is real.
Whites don't real? That doesn't sound like a logical or reasonable observation based on objective reality.
>And a emphasis on the importance of whiteness.
You've yet to say how Kirk "believed in Whiteness". Because he said mean things to some black people? He also said mean things to white people. And how can black people be real if white people aren't?

Your whole rhetoric is falling apart, fambamalam.

>>96758613
>What do you call a person who fully supports a political party
They didn't. They funded the party for their own reasons. They couldn't care less about Germany, nationalism, or anything else. They wanted money, and they wanted a crackdown on workers. Colonial violence used on native citizens, basically.

>pays for it,
A lobbyist.

>and is in turn given special, exclusive benefits by the party?
The people actually in charge of the party.

>>96758620
>Ideologies cannot undergo reformations and permutations?
They can, but Neo in the context of a ideology more often than not doesn't mean they aren't the same thing. Noe Liberalism and classical liberalism are both liberalism. Just like Neo Nazism and classical Nazism are still the same ideology.

>t's not my job to educate you
There is no difference, then. Because Aryan and whiteness are teh same mental illness with a different name and should be treated the same way. Death.

>They all believe in Blackness
They don´t, actually.

>Whites don't real?
Of course not.

>That doesn't sound like a logical or reasonable observation based on objective reality.
Of course it is. In every aspect there is no actual connection between different groups of `white` people any more or less profound than the connection between any two random groups on the planet.

>Because he said mean things to some black people?
Because he believed in whiteness. His issues with black people were that they were not white, nothing else.

>>96758543
ah, i see you did have breakfast this morning, carry on

>Today in our ongoing series of leftoid denials of reality; just because they were members of the party doesn't mean they were members of the party
This one -> Kek
Kek
Kek

>>96758662
>They were members of the party
Most of them weren't, actually.

>>96758652
>but Neo in the context of a ideology more often than not doesn't mean they aren't the same thing
It literally does. It means the ideology has been revised and rewritten for the modern day. And more often than not it's treated as a pejorative, the sane way 4chan uses "nu" as a derogatory prefix.
>Because Aryan and whiteness are teh same
Indians are white?
>They don´t, actually.
Once more you deny objective reality.
>Of course not.
Ergo, nazis can't exist if whites don't exist.
>Because he believed in whiteness.
How so?
>His issues with black people were that they were not white, nothing else.
I'm sure it had nothing to do wuth their political stances.

Nice job sidestepping the black person conundrum I laid out. Really funny how all your statements against "nazis" (which you still can't define) just read like projection since you can't confront your own fallacies in your beliefs

>>96758796
>Indians are white?
That's why they need so much sacred cow poop, otherwise they would reveal their true colors.

>>96758796
Again, neo liberalism and liberalism are both liberalism. It being rewritten, which is incorrect anyway in the case of Neo Nazis(And not just because they can't write), doesn't change that.

Nobody is Aryan cause it's a made up idea.

Proof that all black people are sone form of black nationalist. No back pedalling either. All of them, every single one. Proof it.

They can because whiteness and Aryan are both the same made up bullshit.

See above

It doesn't because Kirk was fundamentally incapable of understanding those.

I didn't sidestep shit. Most black nationalists are Nazis. Much like most zionists are Nazis. Same mental illness.

>>96758550
>Explain the difference.
Nazis view the German race as the soul of the German nation. It's explicitly a German movement that lasted only a few years and arose as a direct reaction to communist revolutionaries that were terrorizing Germans in the Weimar Republic for not being communist enough.
White nationalists don't view race as a series of genetics, but a feeling. If someone looks or acts white enough, they are accepted into the group. Nick Fuentes can be friends with Kanye for that reason, even though they would prefer to live in white communities.

>>96760539
>White nationalists don't view race as a series of genetics, but a feeling. If someone looks or acts white enough, they are accepted into the group. Nick Fuentes can be friends with Kanye for that reason, even though they would prefer to live in white communities.
That's not entirely accurate, they view race as irrefutable, while individual members of specific races may be good people their position is that genetics is destiny and you can't talk your way around the reality of things like the IQ bellcurve.

You can be friends with non-whites, but just because your friend has an IQ of 108 doesn't mean his kids are going to, therefore why punish your children by making them deal with a country of low IQ, high aggression fuckheads just because you want to be friends with 'the heckin based black guy'.

In their view only the white man has the right to white civilization and has a moral obligation to hand it down to his children in the same/a better condition than it was given to him, everyone else can hold onto the coat tails or get the fuck out of the way because the Cracker barrel is coming through one way or the other.

You get various subfactions depending on their view of the other races ranging from 'Losers do their best, winners go home and fuck the prom queen, get in the footnotes of history Umbeke' to 'White Mans Burden' through to shit like 'Whites only Mars Colony, leave everyone else back here and if they come find us later that proves they deserve to be among the stars with us'.

I'm not approving of this position by the way for the record, just stating it.

>>96760618
You're conflating white supremacist and white nationalist positions.
White supremacists get caught up in retarded purity tests related to genetic purity. White nationalists believe the same moral instinct that binds a parent to a child also binds a people to its heritage, and is more of a feeling than anything else.
If someone is "white enough", they are accepted into the group regardless of their skin color or skull shape. But that determination is highly selective and cannot be argued around.
This is why most white nationalists have Spanish surnames.

>>96759492

>Most black nationalists are Nazis. Much like most zionists are Nazis.

I would assume you were a troll if the current state of the world didn't convince me that confusion of this level was possible. You just told everyone you believe in vegan carnivores.

If you are a troll, please, the art of trolling is to slightly dip into unbelievable territory. But this is impossible when pretending to be these ideologues. They proudly hold to explicitly contradictory nonsense. Please find some other group to impersonate.