Thread 96737261

>What is Exalted?
An epic high-flying role-playing game about reborn god-heroes in a world that turned on them.
Start here:http://theonyxpath.com/category/worlds/exalted/

>That sounds cool, how can I get into it?
Read the 3e core book (link below). For mechanics of the old edition, play this tutorial:http://mengtzu.github.io/exalted/sakuya.html
It’ll get you familiar with most of the mechanics.

>Gosh that was fun. How do I find a group?
Roll20 and the Game Finder General here on /tg/. good luck

>Resources for Third Edition
>3E Core and Splats
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/b54o6teut3fx6/Exalted_3e

>Errata for Third Edition
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n3ooTmopm3CBxW5jwPp1761xsaIccea-5XIhVM_PQEc/edit

>Other Ex3 Resources
https://pastebin.com/fG1mLMdu

>Resources for Older Editions
https://pastebin.com/BXSGuFdQ

>Current Quixalted Extended QE Version (Fanmade Supplement)
https://files.catbox.moe/rjgmo5.pdf

>Optional Quixalted Exalts
https://www.mediafire.com/file/jg86yrewnhx2ov3/QE_Reject3eExaltHomebrew.pdf/file

>Exalted Demake/Black Vault (Now with updates):
https://pastebin.com/Tt1PjuYt
https://pastebin.com/qHRW9N51

>collection of Exalted Hacks
https://pastebin.com/gtZnycJs

>stuff that might be interesting
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/the-exalted-thread-with-no-original-ideas.317216/

Last thread: >>96684639

TQ: What's your vision of an Infernal? Not the kind that's coming or that was written in an old edition; what is the Infernal your heart desires?

>>96737261 (OP)
What art do you use as visual references for Infernals/what canon Infernals art do you like? If you're curious, I found this one a few years ago, she was a character created by Alectai on SP (who commissioned an artist for the image), she's a Fae-Blooded Fiend.

>dawn caste power is super intimidation
>presence is not one of their caste skills
clown caste

>>96737347
>presence is not one of their caste skills
More Performance than Presence, because Performance is where War stuff used to be with the idea that rallying your men would be more performance-ish, but you're right that caste abilities in general and Dawns in particular is clownish.

I noticed there's a glaring empty spot in my 3e homebrew collection. Anyone know of Infernal conversions or homebrews for 3e?

>>96737821
Infernals:The Devils are Here, on onyx path forums.

>>96737578
>More Performance than Presence, because Performance is where War stuff used to be with the idea that rallying your men would be more performance-ish
Only in the charms, Presence was described as the proto war skill.

Are there any good Exalted podcasts?
I only know about Systematic Understanding of Everything, the official one, and Wondrous Atlas of Creation, an attempt at "lore"cast except it's just so fucking biased.
>the realm is bad
>the realm is evil
>burn the realm
>kill the realm
>kill the imperials
>politics bad

>>96738147
>Are there any good podcasts?
No.

>>96737937
I wouldn't advise trying to make sense of 1e, especially not in the Presence and Performance divide, and particularly not as it relates to leadership in combat. The only thing more hazardous to your mental well-being is trying to make sense of 1e Lunar Charms.

>>96738147
Well, if you're not the Realm, it is, in fact, objectively bad, in that it is going to try to knock over your home, suck out every last vestige of wealth, and send lots of your friends and family back in chains. And it's going to keep doing this until something manages to drive it off and can resist the Legions that come in to break skulls and crush rebellions that get sent in afterward.

>>96738335
I am aware of, there's a lot of weirdnesses surrounding it.
Not just because it was the first, but also because of a feeling that it was rushed.

>1e Lunars.
Once I got to them, I closed the pdf in disbelief.

>>96737261 (OP)

>What's your vision of an Infernal? Not the kind that's coming or that was written in an old edition; what is the Infernal your heart desires?

2e Infernals were pretty good, and felt like they made sense within the setting. That's about what I'd like.

>>96737261 (OP)
What Infernals have you created in the past? And who is your favorite canon Infernal and why? I like the nun Infernal, cool design. I hope they have rules for porting 2e Infernals into 3e if nothing else.

Have your games ever had a Celestial Exalt join a Sworn Brotherhood with Dragon-Blooded (so not counting those Lunars-only Sworn Brotherhoods)?

How widespread are cybernetics in Autochtonia?

>>96737261 (OP)
Say a Fae-Blooded Exalts, besides maybe Lunars, what Exalt types, or types of gods for Exigents, make the most sense for them? Tying into this, what are your opinions on the Dream-Souled?

>>96737261 (OP)
>What's your vision of an Infernal? Not the kind that's coming or that was written in an old edition; what is the Infernal your heart desires?
A demon sultan empowered by mad titans as part of their plan to take down the upstairs who mangled and imprisoned them and free themselves, wielding bizarre powers derived from the Yozi, and who are naturally pointed towards evil goals and means but who are capable of rebelling against their masters to follow their own goals and use the trappings of villany towards good goals.
Basically 2e internals without the stupid edge.

>>96738147
>Wah, how dare they criticize the power-hungry empire who takes over countries, steals their resources and suppresses their cultures

>>96740181
It is the Realm, a good chunk of the fanboys and writers only thing about in "yass queen, slay" terms.
With varying degrees of "wait, we are committing oppression?!" Mixed with the above.

>>96740447
[citation needed]

>>96739277
Very. It's cheaper to lop off an arm you mangled in an industrial accident and replace it with a cyberarm before sending you right back to work than to give it normal medical treatment and let you waste valuable time resting instead of working.

If I have an Artifact 5 robe that behaves as a Silken Armor with the additional ability to change its appearance into any garment of my choice, is that too weak to justify the extra dot cost?

>>96737261 (OP)
>the Game Finder General here on /tg/
Should be removed

>>96740447
I don't think that's true when it comes to either fans or writers. The actual published material is clear on the Realm, in fact, committing plenty of oppression, and the general atmosphere in most places where I've seen 3E fans gather online - I don't really use the official Exalted Discord, mind you - has been such that suggesting any positive side whatsoever to an empire such as the Realm would get you dogpiled.

Sex with female Abyssals.

>>96740181
>Wah, how dare they criticize the power-hungry empire who takes over countries, steals their resources and suppresses their cultures
In fairness to the Realm, that also describes every player-controlled empire I've seen created, and the Bull of the North's thing as well except they're even more power hungry and expansionist. Everybody is doing it isn't a good defense, but it does exist. It's that kind of period of the world, except the Realm's mostly happy with it's empire so they're more laissez-faire about colonies dropping on and off the face of the earth compared to rising empires for whom their expansions are a dangerous frontier.

>>96739277
bonding with machines is basically the autochtonian religion.

they have thaumaturgy to replace lost limbs and organs with mechanical equivalent. they dont require essence commitment and the higher end of quality actually work BETTER than the normal flesh.

the richer people of autochtonia FOR SURE have extensive work done on them and even common workers will have base replacement ready in case of industrial accidents (which are unfortunately quite common).

if i wanted to be pedantic, i could say that alchemical exalted themselves are just a bunch of cybernetics piloted by a human soul.

>>96741481
what you describe is AT BEST artifact 3 if "garment" is only normal clothing fashion and not armor.

>>96741974
if the female infernal like you enough you may get free wishes!

>>96742189
Silken Armor is a Light Artifact Armor rated at 4 dots because it can be used with Martial Arts that normally forbid the use of armor. I used that as the base inspiration for this Artifact, and added an extra dot on top to represent its ability to change shape and color to mimic any sort of clothing. My question is if it's too little and whether I should soup its shape-changing ability up to justify the extra dot.

>>96742207
>Silken Armor is a Light Artifact Armor rated at 4 dots because it can be used with Martial Arts that normally forbid the use of armor
this shit has always been comically overpriced

>>96742267
What's a better Artifact rating for what I'm after?

>>96739277
>How widespread are cybernetics in Autochtonia?
>"From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh, it disgusted me."
t. average Sodalite

>>96742323
martial arts are complete garbage and access to them shouldn't influence the dot rating at all, so 3 dots for the magic outfit change

obviously if your ST is a sped he'll disagree but then you should be figuring this shit out by talking with him instead of us

>>96742323
Anon is just gretching. Artifact 4 is completely fine for 3e, where artifacts are expected to have a unique bonus on top. The base 'a garment that can change to other garments' is Artifact 2, an in prior editions would be called Everyman Armor. In 1e where Silk Armor is 4-dot I'd probably add two motes commited and a mote's activation cost for the extra ability rather than bump it up a dot, as it doesn't dramatically change the functionality of the artifact, or also add one of the material functions of the Infinite Resplendence Amulet and slap that on top to make it Artifact 5.

Note that the Infinite Resplendence Amulet is also a martial-arts compatible armor and available starting at 3-dot rating in 2e (Lords of Creation), and has the shapeshifting armor thing by default. Taking two of it's magical material bonuses (the +5/+5 moonsilver and your resonant material if you mostly want it for armor) means that, other than that it is magitech/needs maintenance, it completely overshadows silk armor.

>>96742381
>>96742323
I actually completely misremembered the dot ratings of most of those artifacts for 1e/2e. Silk Armor is 2-dot in 1e/2e. Everyman Armor is 3-dot, but does count as armor.

Anyway yes just make shapeshifting the immediate ability on a 4-dot silk armor and you'll be fine. Slap a three mote cost on the shift and you're good.

>>96737261 (OP)
What do you think of what we’ve seen of Infernals in 3e so far? How does it compare to 2e Infernals?

>>96743969
Sex with Manosque Cyan.

>>96742405
NTA but I have a better idea: Give it similar functionality to the Ultimately Useful Tube.
>1 mote to shrink into a simple wristband or choker to conceal it when not in use
>going climbing? 1 mote to morph the hands into claws and grow cleats from the soles
>going swimming? 1 mote to morph into scuba suit with flippers for feet, an additional mote to generate a cloth snorkel
>going stealthing? 1 mote to morph into a sexy skintight ninja suit (can reflexively conceal the face at no cost)
>going to a party? 1 mote to morph into whatever clothes the wearer wants
The list goes on, but the gist of it is it gives +2 to rolls relevant to its current form. That'd justify the extra dot on top of being compatible with all Martial Arts.

>>96743969
>What do you think of what we’ve seen of Infernals in 3e so far?
I'm decidedly unimpressed but that's par for the course at this point.

>How does it compare to 2e Infernals?
Poorly.

>>96744076
>The list goes on, but the gist of it is it gives +2 to rolls relevant to its current form.
Slightly better is that artifacts are automatically Exceptional Equipment for relevant rolls. You could explicitly point out that it would count for whatever shape it's helping with.

That said, these sound like something evocations would be good for, rather than as a default power of the artifact.

>Mana-Yood Sushai.
>Ma-ha Suchi
I wonder if it was a random reference

>>96744997
I doubt Ma-Ha-Suchi is a Pegana reference.

>>96745298
It is hard to say for certain, the term "Yozis" is from it.

>>96737261 (OP)
>TQ

Well - I want Infernals to be trans-humanist. You were this human thing, now you are this super awesome demon thing. You're still human, but human-plus. Personalized crazy forms that aren't just once per story would be great, like a true form you can just be in. Be a crystal, be burning radioactive fire, or a living dream. Not shapeshifting exactly but doubling down on "This is your idealized/true form and it's fucking metal."

I want Infernals that can adventure in Malfeas as an option. Just going "Fuck Creation" and having adventuring in hell seems cool. I don't think the Yozi should care unless they're being flat out destructive, making a hell kingdom that ultimately make it easier to ruin creation should be a bonus. This should just be an option instead of baseline though.

I'd like less sexual violence then the 2e books but for sure want blood and gore. More explosive and overly dramatic then sad and gross. Kimbery dissolves people, Oramus makes people heads explodes literally, Malfeas burns people to screaming radioactive dust, ectect. I want charms for all the Yozi, the more the better really. I also want really weird permanent charms.

They should be very loud and bombastic - basically being rewarded for being drama queens. Not sure the best way to do that but Infernals should always be extra. I'd also like stuff we never really got in 2e, like war charms and crafting charms. Spandex would be great as well, just all the weird outfits, but I don't think that's going to happen. Infernals should always stand out and be rewarded for doing so, unless they're stealth I guess.

I want a new Yozi too, just because a new one would really catch me off guard. Pic related that you posted because some kind of electric guitar would be really neat, or at least some kind of musical weapons. I also want it flat out stated that yes, the Yozi are trapped in hell. You can't get them out. Each one has its own "thing" that would make them happier.

>>96744296
I'm not really sure about all the current stuff. Where can I read about what all they have planned?

>>96744854
>That said, these sound like something evocations would be good for, rather than as a default power of the artifact.
Easy peasy:
>This evocation awakens at no cost the first time the wielder attunes to the Artifact.
See? Easy. :^)

>>96745625
>I also want it flat out stated that yes, the Yozi are trapped in hell. You can't get them out. Each one has its own "thing" that would make them happier.
I go with headcanon that keeos this vauge. Or that thry can't get out on thier own. It's impossible. But Exalted are meant to achive the impossible. So maybe in a several centuries oportunity opems and they could try to escape? But thats isn't only plan they have.
That each Yozi has something that makes them personally happy is actually pretty cool idea.
Yozi use Infernals as form of escapism if not literal one from thier prison then at least brief blissfull moments wehen they forget how miserable they feel. It adds layer of complexity.

>>96746066
>Yozi use Infernals as form of escapism if not literal one from thier prison then at least brief blissfull moments wehen they forget how miserable they feel. It adds layer of complexity.
Something something parents living vicariously through their children's achievements.

>>96746066
there's three things keeping them from Creation
>Oaths
>Malfeas
>Cecelyne
Just break the oaths and kill Malfeas and Cecelyne and they can get back to Creation.

>>96742207
....o! not 2nd edition. my bad.

>>96746103
3e is the "nagging parents" edition after all.

>>96746261
>break the oaths
easy
>kill malfeas
that's fine as long as they're not inside
>kill cecelyne
they can't get to creation without her though

>>96746261
Yeah they made oaths and are stuck in Malfeas, but how is Cecelyne keeping them from Creation=

>>96742195
What do I get if the female Abyssal likes me though?

>>96746641
>Cecelyne is the affliction of the Yozis. Her endlessness has become their boundary. The gods twisted her living essence to bind the Yozis away from Creation. Thus, if the Demon Princes should crack open Malfeas and crawl into the world beyond, they would find only Cecelyne — and know only Cecelyne — and this would not bring them closer to Creation.
>The Yozis have given Cecelyne care over the demons of the city, that their servants should not seek to overthrow the Primordial lords. In her name, her servants order and regiment the demons. Her power also keeps the lesser demons from Creation, that they may not slip from Malfeas while no one watches. The Yozis cannot leave, and their petulance rarely permits their lessers freedom.

>>96746703
Your lower soul eaten when her poon literally eats your dick off when you both climax.

>>96746703
you get to be part of the coil 18 necrotech masterpiece! lucky you!

>>96746724
I thought vagina dentata was a more Infernals thing.

>>96746972
There's a overlap, Lunars and Alchemicals also have vaginal vore under their design pies.

>>96747093
Mmmmmm, pie...

>>96737261 (OP)
has anyone converted beloved adorei to essence?

>For some numinous reason, male Lunars gain a [10×(N + 2)] boost of competence when paired with fair haired Solars.
>despited being studied since the dawn of the first age by sages, scholars, nature philosophers, etc... nobody can give an answer for the cause of this numinous phenomenon.

>>96746972
Either way, it's a wonderful phrase!

Tell me about the Realm's Legion of Silence.

Appearance is such a fucking meme stat. I just can't get over it.

>>96748653
-t seething uggo

How many instances of Resources 1 are worth Resources 2? How many instances of Resources 2 are worth Resources 3? And so on.

>>96748335
Brainwashed slave soldiers fanatically loyal to the Empress. They don't really take orders from anyone but the Empress, and in her absence they keep guarding the Imperial Palace and some other important locations they've been previously ordered to guard, Specially bred and augmented with Charms in 2E, bought in childhood and augmented with drugs and sorcery in 3E. Big, strong, tough boyswithout much apparent emotion in either case. They get their tongues cut out in both 2E and 3E and are also castrated in 2E.The reason I only mention 2E and 3E is because I didn't quickly find where the legion in described in 1E and don't remember if they differ from 2E depiction there, by the way.

>>96748682
>seething uggo
This is the optimal way to be because Appearance is so useless.

>>96748714
False. Maxing Appearance will make you a social juggernaut as everyone likes and trusts you just because you're so pretty.

>>96748720
But it doesn't actually do that.

>>96748726
False. Most people have a total Resolve score of about 2. If you max out Appearance at 5 (and you can get it higher with Charms depending on what Exalte type you're playing) you get a juicy +3 non-Charm bonus on every social influence roll against them without even trying.

>>96748758
>MAYBE get up to 3 extra dice against the weakest of the weak
Wow!

But I think I'd rather have 5 extra dice against everyone instead.

Martial Arts shouldn't have their own skill each, they should be 1-5 Merit chains, each dot with their own benefit as the martial artist understands more of the underlying principles of the style and is physically and spiritually changed by them as they internalize these principles.

>but the players might take advantage of the reduced cost to learn them super fast!
It's called trusting your players to understand how the narrative of learning mystical martial arts works.

>>96746565
>kill cecelyne
>they can't get to creation without her though
If nothing else (and they have a lot else going for them), the Yozi can do sorcery, remember? Wings of the Archon. They can grow wings and fly to Creation, but normally Cecelyne stops them.

>>96748697
Depends on edition. For 2e, if Resources 0 is <=2, Resources 1 <=8, Resources 2 <=16, Resources 3 <= 1024, Resources 4 is from 4k-6k, and Resources 5 is 12k+. That huge range represented by Resources 3 is consistent in every edition, effectively covering the entire lower-to-upper middle class. Hit Resources 4 and you're solidly into the 1%.

>>96748794
>Against the weakest of the weak

No, that would be Resolve 0, though I'm not sure how you'd manage that without a kind of flaw.

>>96748794
>>96749225
Keep in mind that Intimacies can also modify (penalize) your target's Resolve. If they are a horndog or slut, say. If they think prettier people are better, say. If they have a type and the Appearance 5 character fits that type, say. Appearance 5 chads rack up bonuses like there's no tomorrow and that's without spending a single mote. Hey, and did you know Appearance is an Attribut you can roll if you want to bank on sheer personal magnetism and your good looks rather than Charisma or Manipulation?

>>96749271
I know, I was just contemplating how one would get Resolve 0 without applying an Intimacy.

>>96748653
I think Appearance would work better as a Merit that gives everyone some kind of a positive Intimacy towards you, or something like that.

>>96748925
A chain of Merits that are available for mortals, too, with each Merit having a corresponding Charm that represents the same technique boosted with Essence, with Exalts getting both the Merit and the Charm but with their effects not stacking, sounds about ideal to me.

>>96749405
>available for mortals, too
First dot gives the mortal a pool of 10 motes, and each subsequent dot adds 5 motes to that pool. Their rating in the merit determines their Essence score. No, I do not care it gives mortals a quick way to raise their Essence, most mortals lack the autism required to unlock the secrets of Martial Arts so it all balances out.

>>96748653
That's because it's a hand-me-down from vampire where seduction was the main way to feed unless you had a social power. Appearance does have rules that are supposed to make it relevant but I have never seen anyone give a shit about them, let alone use them. When was the last time you capped your dice pool to make a fist impression or maintain formal appearances?

>>96750508
>When was the last time you capped your dice pool to make a fist impression or maintain formal appearances?
If your Storyteller is worth a fuck, the correct answer is "many times"

>>96751657
and if you play games, the answer is "never"

>>96751843
Mentioning a Storyteller means, by simple deduction, that a game is involved, genius.

>>96751873
apparently not when retards like you are in the conversation

woah...

so this... is the power... of appearance...

>>96751992
No, no, that's still Charisma/Manipulation. It's just at +2 Resolve.

>>96752076
Notice how the word isn't capitalised. Appearance as an Exalted keyword/Attribute vs appearance as an english word.

>>96752251
notice how much cope is in this post

>>96752251
In this case, it is "try to seduce somebody's by spreading your pussy" which falls under appearance

Sex with Manosque Cyan!

>>96752276
>In this case, it is "try to seduce somebody's by spreading your pussy" which falls under appearance
That's still Charisma/Manipulation, depending on how manipulative you're being about it.

>>96752279
Is that pronounced Ma-nosk or Man-os-kay?

>>96752308
Depends if you use the French or English pronunciation.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=If-527Gtz8I&pp=ygUXTWFub3NxdWUgcHJvbnVuY2lhdGlvbiA%3D

Where can I find an Exalted game? This place is dead and I'm not touching the official Discord.

>>96752863
run it yourself

>>96751657
Not really because the only thing Appearance does in 1e is increase the difficulty of seduction rolls, if your social status are basically the same.

>>96752863
You need to run a game first.

>>96752279
Who?

>>96753268
Iconic Fiend Caste for 2e Infernals.

Is it possible to run a crime thriller in this setting and system without the player characters blowing it open in the first couple sessions?

>>96752279
Based. My cute Fiend wife (who is sometimes confused for that one Akuma who goes into battle wearing nothing but ribbons)

>>96754686
Absolutely, just either run it with some Exalts who do NOT have a full suite of Investigation Charms or run it in such a way that potent sorcery, artifice or divine/diabolical tampering has made it so spamming Investigation Charms can give rise to an obvious conclusion that is completely incorrect (involve a Behemoth that can take the shape of the victim while committing the murder, for example)

>>96737261 (OP)
>TQ
Everything I could say has already been summed up in >>96738400, >>96740166 and >>96745625. I enjoy Infernals who revel in the power of their titanic, inhuman patrons even as they chafe against their overbearing desires. I enjoy Infernals with a defined nominal role and purpose in Creation, that they are free to revel in-actualising the nightmare of the Anathema-or through heroic effort subvert. I enjoy Infernals who are in the process of becoming more demon than hero, something greater than the broken Primordials, and ultimately something more alien from the human experience than the Metropoli that Alchemicals grow up into (and I will never stop shitting on 3e for eating crow by taking the L by having Metropoli be a thing. I don't care what kind of mental gymnastics you do, by definition building scale Charms are in fact an Essence-gated flat power upgrade).

Naturally this mean that everything I've heard about 3e Infernals disgusts and disappoints me, and I will not acknowledge anything about them as canon.

>>96737261 (OP)
>TQ: What's your vision of an Infernal? Not the kind that's coming or that was written in an old edition; what is the Infernal your heart desires?

I liked 2e's "people who just fucking flubbed it" idea but if that's gonna make people go "I don't wanna play someone who sucks" then I think a better thematic element for Infernals is people in situations where they would have prevailed if they got an Exaltation but just...didn't. Because there's only so many to go around. I like the idea of the Yozi's laughing and commiserating with the Infernal-to-be, going "yeah, sure sucks, doesn't it? Fuck the gods and the Exalted" and offering them the Infernal Exaltation as revenge. Infernals being Exalts bitter about the concept of the random jackpot of celestial Exaltation sounds like a fun concept.

>>96754896
I just cannot imagine Malfeas showing enough empathy to see a bit of his own misfortune in a loser, as opposed to wanting to weaponise that loser's thwarted rage. Malfeas at his lowest and most debased is still the Demon Emperor, the idea of him sympathising with a mortal-with a potential reincarnation of his kin's killers-is as absurd as how they rewrote the Shoat.

>>96754979
>I just cannot imagine Malfeas showing enough empathy to see a bit of his own misfortune in a loser, as opposed to wanting to weaponise that loser's thwarted rage.

I definitely agree with you there. I just view it less as, say, Malfeas actually legitimately empathizing with them and more going "oh good, this person will agree with my fuck-the-gods agenda if I tell them that the UCS left them out to dry". The fact that the Yozis are dogshit patrons that Infernals are all but expected to flip off so they can go do flaming hell skateboard tricks on Immaculate corpses is like one of the major things that makes them different from basically all other Exalted (besides, like, Abyssals, I guess, but even those are still more likely to earnestly believe in the death philosophy and stuff), so making the relationship *start* at shaky pretend-sympathy sounds good to me.

>>96754873
>(and I will never stop shitting on 3e for eating crow by taking the L by having Metropoli be a thing. I don't care what kind of mental gymnastics you do, by definition building scale Charms are in fact an Essence-gated flat power upgrade).
Infernalcel seething at Alchemichads for having cooler ideas than "I've got a Solar charm but it makes me scary when I use it".

>>96737261 (OP)
>TQ: What's your vision of an Infernal? Not the kind that's coming or that was written in an old edition; what is the Infernal your heart desires?
There was a lot getting in the way of most people picking an Infernal. Some of those have already been remedied to my knowledge (Lilun is not returning, your Infernal does not get molested when they go to Malfeas, charm trees are organized by ability rather than a messy pile sorted by Yozi), but I'd like to see the following addressed:
>Hell should be a more interesting place that focuses on having characters and societies to interact with rather than being a series of hazards designed by Hidetaka Miyazaki
>The Yozis should not overshadow the Infernals. Many discussions regarding Infernals treated them as an afterthought to discussing Yozis, and the Devil Tiger charms only reified this by centering an Infernal's worth on becoming a new Yozi, especially because it was framed that only a big dum-dum would not use Devil Tiger charms to slip their leash and have a lifespan greater than that of a Dragon-blooded. This is a turnoff to any player, who obviously want to have their own concerns centered over NPCs.
>Transhumanism is, in general, cringe. It has the stink of being associated with Silicon Valley computer nerds afraid of human interaction and death. Infernals should have strange ideas and mutations, yes, but they should still be fundamentally human at the end of the day, as most people prefer to play people with understandable motivations.

>>96755420
>>Transhumanism is, in general, cringe. It has the stink of being associated with Silicon Valley computer nerds afraid of human interaction and death
The pot calling the kettle black, specially the fear of death part.

>Transhumanism = Cringe.
They never did read old pulps, like lensmen.

>as most people prefer to play people with understandable motivations.
IRL humans already have incomprehensible motivations to one another.

>>96754873
>(and I will never stop shitting on 3e for eating crow by taking the L by having Metropoli be a thing. I don't care what kind of mental gymnastics you do, by definition building scale Charms are in fact an Essence-gated flat power upgrade)

At the cost of being sessile and relying on lower power characters to actually do things (either other Alchemicals or drone bodies). And the kind of power upgrade they are probably hooks into a bunch of abstractions that still don't meaningfully change something, like it's great that the Alchemical can maybe use a PA system to make influence actions against anyone listening but a Solar can technically bypass constraints of space anyway to just yell louder.

>>96737261 (OP)
to whomsoever updates, the final version of Methodology of Secrets, the advance pdf of the Essence novella omnibus, and epub versions of 4 novellas are in g0 phi13
/d/4IkTOP

>>96755225
You’re right. I am absolutely seething that 3e devs have complete double standards when it comes to preserving a sacred cow, and it when it comes to actually delivering what people want in the game.

>>96755604
>At the cost of-
Nothing that actually contradicts the premise that an E6+ Metropolis can do things an E5 Solar can’t even with the most powerful Charms at his disposal in 3e.

>>96755420
>That’s a turnoff to any player
I and everyone who was willing to make up Devil-Tiger charmsets strenuously disagree. I feel that most of the people supporting 3e Infernals fundamentally don’t understand why people enjoyed Infernals in the first place. No one plays Infernals to be Green Solars in my experience.
>Transhumanism is-
I don’t give a rat’s ass about whatever IRL politics live rent free in your head, if it really has to be said the variety of transhumanism conveyed by slowly turning into a demonic living apocalypse is demonstrably a different narrative to being a silicon valley computer nerd. The same way Skeletor is not Elon Musk.

>>96756736
>Nothing that actually contradicts the premise that an E6+ Metropolis can do things an E5 Solar can’t even with the most powerful Charms at his disposal in 3e.
Such as?

>>96756803
>Such as?
nta but being Legendary Size, wielding artillery weapons in combat, and mass production would be some things that are very powerful and not available to Solars in 3e.

>>96757139
>being Legendary Size
Build a warstrider.
>wielding artillery weapons in combat
Build a warstrider.
>mass production
Build a factory-cathedral.

>>96752863
run one for yourself, it'll be more fun that way.

This image perfectly encapsulates what 3e Infernals are going to be.

Does an Integrity Excellency count as a social charm?

>>96757234
>Build a warstrider.
For one thing, that's not a Solar charm. For another, committing fifteen motes, repair commitments, and attaching a baggage train to your ass is not equivalent effect to anybody else's Legendary Size. For the other thing, no, warstriders also don't wield artillery in combat. Artillery does more damage than warstrider weapons.

>Build a factory-cathedral.
They don't exist in 3e, anon. Why? Because early on they made clear that they didn't want mass production in Creation because they felt it cheapened Craft and the art of creation (especially of artifacts), without considering Autochthonia, which does still have it. Also, again, factory-manses are not Solar charms.

Exalted Essence.
Opinions on the following as a personal mode to the charm in the picture:
The exalt helps men overcome grievous injuries. Through a venture with three obstacles and a time scale of three scenes you can increase the size of a Battle Group by 1, if the groups size has recently shrunk due to losses in combat.
Do you feel like it's too strong, or too weak? At the moment it's pretty much the equivalent of a recruitment venture. Not sure how strong it should be as a personal mode, and as far as I'm aware there's no charm or mode dedicated to "healing" battle groups.

>>96757323
>For one thing, that's not a Solar charm.
Making warstriders in a reasonable time frame is, indeed, a Solar charm.
>For another, committing fifteen motes, repair commitments, and attaching a baggage train to your ass is not equivalent effect to anybody else's Legendary Size.
Not particularly; Lunars pay about the same and must spend more motes or attack decisively each round to maintain Legendary Size, and all other splats with charms to grow to that size only unlock the power at Essence 5 and also pay the same. Alchemicals are unique in that they don't pay a commitment cost, but still can only unlock the charm at Essence 5, are permanently stuck being 15+ feet tall, and have to take months to install or uninstall the charm.

You can also just use other things to transport a warstrider around where it is needed. Put it on a boat, make another artifact vehicle to fly it around, etc. Repairs are trivial for a Solar.
>For the other thing, no, warstriders also don't wield artillery in combat. Artillery does more damage than warstrider weapons.
Artillery does about the same damage as a warstrider weapon does after factoring in a warstrider's increased strength, with the caveat that siege weaponry performs very poorly at closer ranges without additional investment into ranged charms. Magical artillery such as lightning ballistas can be built into warstriders, like they are for the Cathedral of Sublime Annihilation, and used as evocations.
>They don't exist in 3e, anon. Why? Because early on they made clear that they didn't want mass production in Creation
False, as evidenced by the existence of gunzosha armor and other mass-produced artifacts. The infrastructure to do so does not exist in modern Creation, but that has been the standard for all editions.

Sometimes I feel like the only charms people read are combat charms, which is very sad. Solars have such potential but some people only gravitate towards Dawn combos and how they compare to other splats.

>>96757539
>time scale of three scenes
This is the first thing that jumps out at me. Essence uses pure round/scene/session/story time scales, rather than multiples of them, for pretty much everything other than Master Physician Technique. This can jam up the works with some of the time scale manipulating mechanics attached to other charms, and though I don't think any exist for this specific thing right now it could become more of an issue if you went on to make something like an Instant Treatment Methodology that reduced the time scale on a medical venture. Future proofing would say put it either down to one scene or up to one session.

>increase the size of a Battle Group by 1
Typically battle group isn't capitalised, but that's fine. I would phrase this as 'restore a battlegroup's numbers to good health and fortitude' to be more clear and avoid strange phrasing - it might be the case that the battle group has recently shrunk due to losses in combat, but those losses were due to half of them being mind controlled into the enemy's army who subsequently ran away, for example.

>Do you feel like it's too strong, or too weak?
I feel like it's too weak right now. I would put it down to one scene, and I would have it restore all of a battlegroup's lost numbers rather than just bumping it back up by one. This is essentially creating a new type of venture, but at a one scene time scale it's a venture that can be equally difficult to summoning a powerful army-obliterating demon or eliminating an army's logistical issues and rousing new recruits such that it might inflate to great sizes.

>>96757598
>False, as evidenced by the existence of gunzosha armor and other mass-produced artifacts.
Relics of a lost age. Irreplaceable. And, on top of that, there are only dozens even in Lookshy. They are not mass produced. You can look at the other 'mass produced' artifact, the Brass Legionnaire, to find out what 'mass production' is in Exalted 3e - a cautionary tale of madmen obsessed with repeating the same design to no benefit. It's not mass production, it's just handcrafting the same thing over and over again.

>Artillery does about the same damage as a warstrider weapon
Except it doesn't and you're just clutching at straws of 'oh it's close enough' and 'ah but evocations' and you forget that your claim is that 3e Solars can, with Essence 5 Solar charms only, do everything Essence 6+ Metropolis charms can be easily extrapolated to be doing.

>Making warstriders in a reasonable time frame is, indeed, a Solar charm.
It's also an Alchemical charm, but we're not talking about 'making warstriders' we're talking about 'being Legendary Size', which is a different thing, as I've pointed out already.

No, you can't just say 'artifacts can do it' as your gotcha moment. Solars are not artifacts.

>>96757618
>They are not mass produced.
They were, as were other artifacts like lightning ballistas, implosion bows, and so on. As Arms of the Chosen says, the infrastructure of old allowed them to make such creations in batches; the crafter that made the Brass Legionnaires did them in five distinct legions. The capacity to make them exists if a Solar crafter and their circle has the will to do so.
>Except it doesn't and you're just clutching at straws of 'oh it's close enough' and 'ah but evocations' and you forget that your claim is that 3e Solars can, with Essence 5 Solar charms only, do everything Essence 6+ Metropolis charms can be easily extrapolated to be doing.
Well, can you find an example of something you feel to be particularly out of scope beyond the most mundane facet of the Muncipal charms themselves being very large? Many of them are simple things like "heating a city" or "zapping rats with lightning", which aren't exactly something you need a Essence 5 charm as a Solar to arrange for your own city.

>>96757598
>Sometimes I feel like the only charms people read are combat charms, which is very sad. Solars have such potential but some people only gravitate towards Dawn combos and how they compare to other splats.
And it's all irrelevant in the ambush meta lol

>>96757603
So something like:
The exalt helps men overcome grievous injuries. Through a venture with three obstacles and a timescale of a scene you restore a battle group's numbers to what they were in good health and fortitude.

How hard is it to run Exalted in a homebrew world? I find creation to be paradoxically too busy and empty at the same time.

>>96758150
>The exalt helps men overcome grievous injuries. Through a venture with three obstacles and a timescale of a scene you restore a battle group's numbers to what they were in good health and fortitude.
Sounds balanced to me. It's definitely not too strong.

>>96758232
>How hard is it to run Exalted in a homebrew world?
Extremely. Every single mechanic Exalted has is intimately married to the setting.

>I find creation to be paradoxically too busy and empty at the same time.
That's an issue of poor presentation. There's nothing wrong with using the setting as-is.

>>96758232
>How hard is it to run Exalted in a homebrew world?
Depends on how far into homebrew you're going. It's more difficult to build from scratch than it is to use the original, for sure, but it's not extreme or impossible. If your homebrew is based on one of the Shards of Creation then you can use those to ease the process. If your homebrew is actually more of a merger with another setting expect it to be more difficult than either of the above options.

>>96754830
>the only way to have a crime story that isn't solved within 2 sessions is NOT having a guy with Investigation Charms in the circle
Grim.

>>96758892
Sherlock Holmes was almost all short stories that'd be solved within two sessions too. The trick is to have things that Investigation doesn't solve, like people jumping you in an alley or the perp having already left town, which allies that aren't straightforward investigators are helpful with.

>>96754686
I would strongly recommend having limited player count. I don't think you could do this effectively with five players. The sweet spot is probably one or two, so that there isn't all-round competence in every field available.

>>96758931
I always get a kick out of how in the very first story he figured it all out in five minutes but decided to wait until the second murder to make a move on the perp because the victims were both pure scum.

>resonant evocations explicitly allow you to punch up to Solar tier charms
>you can make craft artifacts and something like a 3 dot would be able to do this
>people seize up if you point this out
>"erm actually this would destroy the game and you hate the game"
why do they stick to this high ground. even if 3 or even 4 dots could replicate HALF the bullshittery that Solar Craft gets up to, that doesn't really change the setting too much unless you're a weird hyper extrapolating autists that assume any minor change is somehow metagamed by everyone in the setting and thus HAS to change the setting.

>>96759467
Whiteroom retards are solipsistic spergs, they assume everyone else metagames the setting to death because that's what they themselves do.

>>96758931
>>96759068
It is funny how different some classical works are from they collective consciousness versions.

>>96759467
This is just the Twilight dilemma, exalted as a game wants Hollywood servants, instead of actual ones.

>>96759545
>exalted as a game wants Hollywood servants, instead of actual ones
Meaning?

>>96759651
If they left sarvants out of their narrative leash, the Realm/Creation would end up looking like an early modernity (a.k.a. Renaissance) setting.

>>96755420
I actually agree with most of this besides the transhumanism bit. It's a power fantasy, it should be treated as such imo. Obviously we can't upload our consciousness to a demon in case we die as an emergency backup, or say turn into crystal and control stuff with our mind. Or say, sleep while running and doing stuff. Or turning into multiple people. Transhumanism in the context of Exalted is really just "Human plus really cool shit that humans want but can't do."

Solars are transhumanist but they don't have kick ass demon powers so whatever. Same with all Exalted really. None really go so hard on the alieness besides Raksha which is also a huge bonus, and rather thematic if you think Primordials are just weird fey.

Personally I don't want ANY Devil-Tiger stuff. Exigents just do this way better both flavor wise and mechanics wise. I do want Heretical (Whatever that would mean in 3e) charms to be possible. That is to say, taking two yozi themes and mixing them in ways the Yozi never could. It would be nice to have some examples but even if not just saying that homebrew charms that mix yozi stuff is fine.
>>96757305
This honestly seems pretty great, so even if it was I don't think it'd bother me any.
>>96758142
That is an optional errata that no one uses and I don't think the books being released take it into account when it comes to charm balance.
>>96757598
People who enjoy the 3e crafting system really seem to enjoy it. What is it about handling tokens and stunting crafting stuff that you find fun? I tried getting into it but it felt so... I don't know. The token system is simple to understand but weird at the same time. Also as I understand it mass producing artifacts isn't a thing, they're all supposed to be unique things. That's what makes the first age so amazing, these unique crafts were common place.

devil tiger stuff was interesting. what people's issues actually were is that you were always a retard in 2e for doing anything for the yozis because they hated you explicitly and would betray you.

In what ways have you used Charms with narrow applications?

Whether you are talking about Dissonant Lies Made True, Shun the Smiling Lady, or something completely different, there are times when a Charm's usefulness can feel rather niche.

And then someone uses Blue Vervain Binding to send a Behemoth after their enemies, or Avoiding the Truth to make someone more inclined to believe you in general after they already disbelieved you once and were proven right, and you realize you might just not be acting creatively enough.

What were those times for you?

>>96759545
>>96759681
Did you somehow misspell "savant" as "servant"? Because if you meant to talk about savants your posts would make some sense, though I wouldn't agree with your point in that case, either.

>>96759681
>>96759545
>the devs try to do but they didn't succeed
it's sad knowing you repackage this format every other week and no one gets what you mean, and when you explain yourself, everyone thinks you're stupid, even the people you were agreeing with.

>>96760138
I have no idea what he's talking about.

>>96759892
Devil-Tiger stuff has always been "Make your own class" done as badly as humanly possible. The fluff of breaking away from your Yozi masters is cool but... eh. Of course freeing Malfeas is a bad idea if you don't do things to reform him, why would anyone assume otherwise.

The fluff of Heretical charms though is really cool, because it makes sense to me that you as a human could take these demonic powers and fuse them in ways that your Yozi masters could never imagine. I also rather like the fluff of changing the Yozi through the creation of new charms but I doubt they're going to keep that element. The less focus on the Yozi and shoe-horning them into the story the better.

basically devil-tigers are more boring exigents and I hope infernal charms can be a mix of different yozi now, with the implication that this really freaks the Yozi out. Also of course the soul world and subsoul stuff, I liked that too.

>>96760048
Sorry, phone posting.

>>96760138
Sometimes, White Wolf is Eragon-tier in being derivative.

And despite giving PCs certain tools, they aren't capable of dealing with PCs having these said tools.

An older example is Aberrant's mega social attributes, with the infamous example of a social focused character winning a fight, by simply telling the combat monkey to get lost.

I'll take appearance 5 on all my characters and you'll never be able to stop me.

Do you think the Limit Break system for the Great Curse would work better or worse if accumulated Limit had mechanical consequences before the Limit Break occurs?

Iirc it's supposed to represent accumulated stress and mental instability, so someone at Limit 1 might not act the same than at Limit 8, but would implementing that mechanically help the game? Or would it only be a detriment?

>>96760170
Gods having mini gimmick exalts is pretty ass though and is way more likely to just step on the toes of other Exalted. Devil Tigers weren't really like that, because of how bizarrely structured Yozi trees were and thus how Devil Tiger trees would be.

>>96737261 (OP)
Weekly Update
>POST-APPROVAL DEVELOPMENT
Abyssals Companion: Riders from the Sunless Lands
Infernals
Two Exalted books have been signed off on by Paradox, and are back in developer hands to put the final touches on before they go editing or crowdfunding, respectively!
>Art Direction
Infernals – All crowdfunding art contracted, more sketches coming in
>Layout
Alchemicals – Yeah… guess I’m getting this thing going…
some of the bigger stuff moving around. it also looks like some novella type stuff has been sourced, for those that care>>96756326

>>96760213
Divide it in 3~4 parts? (0~4, 5~9, and 10) or (0~2, 3~6, 7~9 and 10)

>>96756326
Added. Please check the OP to confirm they're all working.

Guys, I have a problem. I was invited to a Third Edition all-Sidereals game by a friend of mine. I already have a character concept, a chosen of secrets who used to be a mortal bureaucrat from Prasad who uncovered an embezzlement ring and got Exalted just as they were about to snuff him out for knowing too much and became a detective after his training was over. My problem is I've never played Sidereals and I can't make sense of their charmset. The Storyteller is already pretty busy right now and I don't want to overwork him even more so I'm asking you for help. What Charms are best for a detective role?

>>96760973
the general suite of charjms you get from your caste abilities (Investigation, , Larceny, Lore, Occult, and Stealth) largely have you covered, thought the Investigatuion charms will be most important, so invest into those. Particularly, Efficient Secretary Technique, Marvelous Inclusion of Details, Broken Silence Happenstance, and Witness Invention Technique will carry you.

>>96761028
Thanks, I know where to start at least. I have another problem though, I don't know what to do for his combat suite. I imagine he pretends to be an assistant to the authorities investigating the cases he's tracking and uses the paper and writing utensils he always carries with him as weapons, but I don't know how feasible that is. Can Sidereal charms do that or should I stick to actual weapons for combat?

>>96761485
That charm you're looking for is called Auspicious Implement for Strife, which allows you to make better use of improvised weapons. Such weapons can be used with both Brawl and Melee, but not both at once. Bear in mind, as a Sidereal you get Martial Arts as a favoured ability for free. If none the four native combat abilities appeal to you, there's a large amount of MA styles to pick from. Lastly, if you're not going to did into artefacts or sorcery, you might as well pick up a Sidereal Martial Art. You splat is not only the best at it but also highly incentivised to do so. You can't learn any until you hit Essence 3, and there's only a handful of them to choose from, but it wouldn't hurt to pick one to work towards, just to have a plan in advance.

>>96759467
>that doesn't really change the setting too much
It does tho the whole mythos of the setting is built uppon the lost glories of a better age if DBs can replicate them then what mysterie and wonder do Solars actually bring to the table?
It's not even minmaxing a 3 dot artifact is literally nothing for DBs.

>>96760963
they work, thank you very much

>>96761838
NTA but they could actually do this in the first edition. A lot of high tech shit was invented or continued to be replicated in the Shogunate, and Warstriders and other things we'd now classify as First Age artifice could be made by DBs/The Realm.

>What do Solars bring to the table
the fact they can do all that bullshit at a lower resource cost at early levels, faster and on bigger scales. artifacts can't replicate an entire Exalt's Tree. Solar wonder is not just craft faggotry and the fact you think it is goes to show how poorly the Solar fantasy exclusively relies on Craft to come across.

>>96761533
>Auspicious Implement for Strife
This is really good, I don't know how I missed it. Now to think up some evocations for my scrolls and brushes.

>>96761898
>Solar wonder is not just craft faggotry and the fact you think it is goes to show how poorly the Solar fantasy exclusively relies on Craft to come across.
That's because craft and sorcery are the only areas where Solars are allowed to have something only for themselves.
Funnily 3e made this aspect worse as twillights get a new way to be unique with Solar level workings.
>A lot of high tech shit was invented or continued to be replicated in the Shogunate
Sure but I would assume this is possible due to the infrastructure left behind by Solars otherwise how do you explain the loss of this capability for modern DBs?

>>96757835
It is kind of amusing to me to see someone getting angry about Municipal charms when they mostly serve as ways to replicate the functionality of manses in a setting where they don't really exist. They're akin to the desalination manses the Saltspire League lives around, or the manses with hearthstones that makes plants in a certain mile radius grow healthier and faster.

>>96761898
Makes sense considering archeology, we study the past through what they crafted, killed and wrote.

And Solars have a "heroes from the past" gimmick.

Solars are meant to be heroes of classical myths reborn in a decrepit world that hates them.
Like imagine that for example modern athletes had to compete against Hercules or Achiles.
They would get curb stomped by the demigods that's supposed tho be the vibe of Solars and its being destroyed.

Is it possible to use a Miracle Shell/Salinan Working type effect to create a system like the kind found in trashy web novels?

>>96763170
What kind of systems? I am not familiar with these novels, Isekai ones basically use D&D or Dragon Quest

How many Intimacies is too many at character creation?

What skill do you use to make poison?

>>96764099
>Craft (X) where X = Alchemy, Cooking, or something similar
>Medicine
>Survival
Off the top of my head.

>>96764135
>Craft
>Medicine
>Survival
Ok, so which is it?

>>96764140
Any one of the above. Use your character's background for flavor.

>>96763446
Yeah, basically gain levels, gain/improve special abilities/skills, evolve, learn magic, that sort of thing. Supposedly the Salinan Working auto tutors everyone who overcomes the trials in sorcery but I don't have the books right now.

>>96763170
>>96764862
Yes, though the power cap on the system would have to be low relative to a lot of the ones in light novels. Nirupadhika 5, Dharma 4 to start, and then Nirvikalpa 4 if you want something that has a mild, wuxia-ish/low fantasy system - the kind that grants a few skills and typically doesn't have stats at all, I think Goblin Slayer is a workable example? - and Nirvikalpa 5 if you want something that scales up to something that scales to be more incredible, like... Konosuba, I think would work? If you also had something like a manse network behind it to hook into you might even be able to make D&D's Weave.

Basically, the limits of miracle shells are based on the limits of sorcery. Imbue Amalgam is the most powerful single-target buff spell in Celestial Circle Sorcery and can grant a decent attribute buff or a few magical abilities, so that's what you'd base the upper limits of a Nirvikalpa 4 based system on. Nirvikalpa 5 is based on Solar Circle Sorcery, which doesn't have a similar buff, but Oblivion's Avatar in necromancy, thrown on a powerful body, is close enough in my opinion. Or Soul Sealing yourself into a third circle demon for an absolute top-end of the scale, but counting the power of demons of the X circle when you're working out how powerful that circle of sorcery is isn't a good idea.

Does having the double-9s effect on a roll mean you also double 10s or just the 9s?

>>96766606
I am not familiar with 3e, but I found this.

>"Double Ns" always includes the higher numbers. Page 183, in the glossary for the "Systems and Conflict" chapter.

>>96764099
>>96764140
Did the feedback help?

>>96767086
NO

>>96760170
Heretical charms are silly and unneeded as a concept because Infernal Charms being literal Yozi Charms is stupid, they should be Yozi Charms in the vein that they're influenced by said Yozi.
Also I don't like Devil-Tigers. I want to say it grinds at the "Goal of playing the character is to stop playing the character" silliness, but it's more that, Primordials and Yozi are chumps and they're fucking gone and done mate. Their time is over. They lost. Why is the goal of your character to become a loser.

>>96760213
rename it to Stress and lose the curse, it's just humans filled over the brim with more awesome than they can contain also influences their mental state.

>>96761942
>Sure but I would assume this is possible due to the infrastructure left behind by Solars otherwise how do you explain the loss of this capability for modern DBs?
Double apocalypse wiping out great swathes of people, places, and their knowledge?

>>96763617
You don't start the game with more Intimacies than your Compassion.

>>96767229
>You don't start the game with more Intimacies than your Compassion.
My question was about 3e.

>>96767370
my condolences

>>96767229
Infernal charms being literally Yozi charms is just a fluff thing if you think about it. More like a thematic framing you're supposed to follow rather then anything else. You don't want Ebon Dragon charms that make people happy and spread love, that sorta thing. Letting Infernal charms be a mix of two yozis "themes" pretty much opens up infinite homebrew while allowing you to keep a really simple to understand framework. If that like, makes sense?

For the Devil Tiger stuff, eh. I like it and don't like it at the same time. The fluff is fun, I like the idea of becoming something "more". The Primordials and Yozi might be chumps but at least they have really cool ass powers. Radioactive green fire is just awesome. Same with evil shadow clone no jutsus. Plus it lets you show off a homebrew exalted type, people love that shit. It's why Exigents are so cool even if the lore is a bit lacking (which I disagree with, but w/e.) It's just neat and it offered an alternative to the Reclamation stuff which I thought just had way too much focus. Also some people just really want to fuck a Yozi. It's not something explainable, they just want a Yozi waifu. Imagine that Ebussy. Basically there are a lot of reasons.

>>96761838
Exalted never came across to me like that. The First Age is a mystery but calling it a better age just feels wrong. It was bad enough and the solars were evil enough that the Sidereals were willing to do some crazy shit to get rid of them. And people were so tired of their shit that they helped. It's more like, a cycle? The Primordials had their age, they were evil gits and fell. Solars had their time, they were evil gits, they fell, ectect... A more technologically advanced age would be better I guess, I dunno. 2e made it a boring sci-fi setting and it was garbage so I hope 3e does better, if they ever get into real detail with it.

>>96767451
>The First Age is a mystery but calling it a better age just feels wrong. It was bad enough and the solars were evil enough that the Sidereals were willing to do some crazy shit to get rid of them.
They didn't start off evil and insane, you mongoloid. It was, at first a golden age. The descent of the Solars into destructive madness was a gradual process.

>I hope 3e does better, if they ever get into real detail with it.
They shouldn't, the First Age should remain a mythical, nigh-incomprehensible time by the standards of anyone currently living it, so the loss of its splendors hits all the harder. But this is 3e so I'm counting down until they repeat 2e's mistake in that area except worse.

>>96766606
10s are doubled by default.

>>96760211
3e is the ugly bastard edition.

>>96767757
Not really, it doesn't have the sexual potency of.

>>96767757
It's not like Appearance has ever been good.

>>96767757

Appearance is extremely good in 3e, what are you on about? Manip + App are the two stats you actually care about for a social character, the dud one is Charisma since it doesn't help any of your fixed values or give you a bucketload of extra dice when buffed.

>>96767985
Don't you also have to have perception to see if somebody is lying?

>>96767985
>bro just get 5 Appearance, several charms and commit 10+ motes forever to get 1 or 2 extra dice (or maybe none)!

>>96768063
i'm sorry i can't hear you over my uncapped dice bonus. now excuse me as i persuade people without having to target intimacies.

>>96767985
>put 5 dots into manipulation or charisma
>get +5 dice that work against everyone in all cases

>put 5 dots into appearance
>get an unusable dogshit stat because nonverbal communication gets severe penalties
>when you're not using it, MAYBE get a few extra dice against people you would have easily beaten regardless with a 5 in the other stats
>get no dice at all against people that matter
>get the privilege of maybe slightly boosting it with extra charm investment

I am curious how an appearance build would work. From what I can tell if you had the Black Claw martial arts you could get it up to 8, at least for a single action. You'd probably want to go Dreaming Pearl instead though...

Totally useless but...

Outrage-Kindling Cry - 1 appearance for the rest of the fight, 10m 1wp
Awakened Carnal Demiurge - 1 appearance, -1 enemy resolve committed, 5m 1wp.
Thousand Courtesan Ways, 1 appearance, 5m scene long.

How sexy can we get I wonder.

Picking Resistance as Supernal is tasty because it's advantageous in a combat situation, but it strikes me as pretty boring and niche otherwise. Am I wrong in this? Can Supernal Resistance be cool and flavorful?

>>96737261 (OP)
How do the new Exalted types rate, especially compared to Infernals? How would you have made either them and/or Infernals different in 3e?

>>96769180
....None? Infernals are the coolest Exalted type and have been since 2e. A close second would have to be (among the new types) I guess... Getimians are pretty neat.

>>96768306

The best I've managed to do, at least in theory, is an E5 Abyssal.

Sanguine Revel Celebrant, Beauty In Bleak Despair, Perfumed Prince Demeanour all grant indefinite +1 capbreaking dot, so cast those.
Birth of Sanity's Sorrow (+2 dots, Hideous merit)
Seat of Deadly Splendor (+1 dot, can choose to gain or suppress the Hideous merit at will.

Takes you up to 11, at the cost of less motes than you'd think because most of it is sorcery. Theoretically you can get +1 from Outrage-Kindling Cry too, but I imagine most of the time you're either not fighting or would have to stand up to fight.

It does have the extremely atmospheric benefit of being able to toggle Hideous on and off while sitting on your doom throne, so you can go from the most beautiful and striking being in the Direction to the most terrifying thing your average Malfean Demon has ever seen in a heartbeat.

Does Creation have dire wolves? Are they statted anywhere?

>>96768306
>How sexy can we get I wonder.
The problem is that after a certain point it's all gravy. Threshold successes don't do anything in social influence and your ability to throw dice outpaces any capacity to boost Resolve even without using Appearance mechanics. Then the problem becomes that Appearance is basically only useful because it's non-charm dice, when if you're not trying to capbreak too hard Charisma/Manipulation are something like 2-3 more dice per attribute dot between how you don't need to beat Resolve and it being possible to Excellency them. Nobody's seriously using Resolve as their primary defense anyway because of how mote-heavy and relatively weak it is when Willpower is right there - everybody wants Willpower recovery / replacement charms, nobody wants +2 Resolve on a single roll.

>>96769180
The new Exalted types are all dogshit, and Infernals are the coolest thing Exalted has or ever will produced. I will die on this hill out of spite, purely because the developers are trying to gaslight me into thinking I’m having fun wrong.

>>96768406
>Can Supernal Resistance be cool and flavorful?
Consider Hanayama Kaoru in Baki and use that for RP opportunities in the game. When you are an absolute beefgate, what you decide to do matter less than how you decide to do it. Does a Solar who chooses to be an unstoppable force and an immovable object use his raw might to enforce his rule, or to protect the weak while humbling the strong? More importantly, what do wrestling matches with his Full Moon Lunar mate look like?

>>96767451
>Imagine that Ebussy
I’d rather a SWLIHN waifu, desu. And even if I were a woman, I’d probably go for Malfeas instead.

>>96767229
>Primordials and Yozis are-
Gaia won. Cemunian, as far as we know, won. Every Primordial who just diddled around in Creation a little then fucked off forever won.

This bizarre “Exalted ALWAYS meant to depict Primordials as losers, you should feel MORE powerful with your Essence 5 Charms that let you spend free Excellencies!!” is contradicted by Exalted’s own published material in which becoming a Primordial is seen as an (no pun intended) exalted state. Both by the 2e Devil-Tiger transcendence series of Charms, and by the Lion’s transformation into a Onceborn in 1e. Which explicitly let him subjugate multiple Abyssal Exaltations into his newly minted soul hierarchy.

Heretical Charms are awesome and inspiring as a unique thing for the gameline, if they weren’t people wouldn’t write entire essays’ worth of Devil-Tiger charmsets among other homebrew. I don’t see it as “not playing the character” at all, I see it as essentially a unique reflavour of Elder Essence.

>>96770108
I guess if you like Shadow the Hedgehog.

>>96767757
3e is the edition of insisting it is ABSOLUTELY necessary for game balance purposes that every Solaroid get one dedicated E5 Charm that does literally nothing except use an Excellency for free (as opposed to, say, making that a purchasable upgrade for Excellencies at E5 and saving the Charm space for an actually fun effect) while filling AT8D with 3-4 paragraphs’ worth of cuisine descriptions per settlement.

>>96759800
>This honestly seems pretty great
You fucking suck.

>>96757234
>Build a warstrider
Maintenance.
>Build a warstrider
The specific, numinous kind of First Age maintenance that 3e insists does not and cannot exist in the Age of Sorrows without some vaguely defined degree of infrastructure Solars have to reinvent into existence. Despite the fact that Solars are perfectly capable of creating N/A artifacts in that same age, they’re just not “First Age” N/A artifacts with no explicit loss in power or performance. It’s basically just a DLC gated skin.
>Build a factory-cathedral
It takes more effort, time and study to build a factory-cathedral from scratch than it does to simply own a Craft Charm that is suddenly building-sized. More to the point, this is automatic as a state of being for all Metropoli while Solars have to devote time and effort specifically to studying magitech to accomplish this.

Arguing 3e E5 Solars can do everything a 3e Metropolis can is like arguing any qualified engineer can do everything a forklift can. It’s technically true if you give the man enough time and knowledge and ropes and pulleys, but it’s much more cumbersome, difficult and time/effort-consuming in practice.

>>96769180
>How do the new Exalted types rate, especially compared to Infernals?
Frankly, they're a snoozefest, and it's entirely because they try to do something that has already existed once before. Exigents are probably the most conceptually interesting but will never be done right because it would require a much more rules-light system than Exalted could ever be to play a "make a homebrew system for you splat", particularly because 3e wants to have super dense charm trees that aren't particularly grabby either and it becomes somewhat boring to homebrew it.
>How would you have made either them and/or Infernals different in 3e?
Eject, pull them out completely and just leave them as hints that something might be going on with the Yozis and their shards. Leave Akuma in though, the way they are now is a lot more interesting than they were. Try a hard cultural reset, because how Infernals went in 2e was just all kinds of ass. Maybe 4e could have shed enough cultural baggage that they could do Exalted of Hell without everything 2e wanted to wrap up into it.

>>96772168
Cuisine paragraphs are unironically great, fuck you.

>>96772178
You meant to say they are the ONLY good thing about that book.

>>96772277
At8D is about 50% genuinely good and 50% meh or worse.

>>96772277
No need to be redundant.

>>96772277
DIGITS OF TRUTH

I wanna pick an Artifact armor but I'm too lazy to draft one from the ground up. Does Arms of the Chosen have any worth taking?

>>96772168
>Arguing 3e E5 Solars can do everything a 3e Metropolis can is like arguing any qualified engineer can do everything a forklift can. It’s technically true if you give the man enough time and knowledge and ropes and pulleys, but it’s much more cumbersome, difficult and time/effort-consuming in practice.
Using artifacts to argue 3e E5 Solars can do everything a metropolis can do is also, by extension, arguing that Dragonblood can do anything Solars can do, since they can use artifacts with effectively equal proficiency.

>>96772168
>It takes more effort, time and study to build a factory-cathedral from scratch than it does to simply own a Craft Charm that is suddenly building-sized. More to the point, this is automatic as a state of being for all Metropoli while Solars have to devote time and effort specifically to studying magitech to accomplish this.
That is not how Municipal charms work. The Alchemical's charms they had when they were ambulatory do not expand into Municipal charms. An Alchemical metropolis must design their new Municipal charms, and then they must be built with mortal manpower and resources and then constantly maintained through yet more labor and resources.

Metropoli charms are the Autochthonian version of building manses with specialized functions. Anon is essentially saying that a power available to any individual with Craft charms is beyond that of a Essence 5 Solar. Coupled with the wildly incorrect assumptions on First Age maintenance, the refusal to call out a single specific effect he finds egregious, and not knowing what a Municipal charm even is, it gives me the impression that anon does not even know what he is upset about.

>>96773090
Your assertions that anything Alchemical charms can do can be replicated by artifice seems equally faulty.

>>96773333
I think its very cool when people make tools that do things they cannot do on their own

>>96772153
>I see it as essentially a unique reflavour of Elder Essence.
understandable considering elder essence was a mistake and shouldnt exist

>>96772153
>The new Exalted types are all dogshit, and Infernals are the coolest thing Exalted has or ever will produced
Getimians are more interesting than Infernals, IMO.

>>96769180
I think it is funny how they complain about 2e Infernals being Transhumanist, saying that it makes them unrelatable.

But are pushing Getimians, who nobody is entirely sure what their deal actually is.

>>96768406
No, it's a boring-ass choice for a Supernal. Same as Awareness, Dodge, Linguistics, Ride and Survival.

>>96773833
Awareness, Ride and Survival are great supernals though.

>>96773838
>oh wow you can.......... LOOK AT THINGS!!!
>oh wow you can.......... MAKE YOUR HORSE STRONGER!!!
>oh wow you can.......... MAKE YOUR PET PARROT STRONGER!!!
Come on.

>>96773849
>>oh wow you can.......... LOOK AT THINGS!!!
Happens all the time in games.
>>oh wow you can.......... MAKE YOUR HORSE STRONGER!!!
>>oh wow you can.......... MAKE YOUR PET PARROT STRONGER!!!
Both very valuable, yes.

>>96773854
>Happens all the time in games.
Paraphrasing a certain martial artist with a bowlcut, it doesn't matter how sharp-eyed and quick-witted you are if you can't actually do something about the fist barreling towards your face.

>Both very valuable, yes.
Familiars will get one-shotted the moment you're fighting a fellow Exalted or even a moderately powerful spirit. Ride and Survival are lame.

>>96773871
>Paraphrasing a certain martial artist with a bowlcut, it doesn't matter how sharp-eyed and quick-witted you are if you can't actually do something about the fist barreling towards your face.
Matters even less if you can't see it coming because ambushes just kill you in this game.
>Familiars will get one-shotted the moment you're fighting a fellow Exalted or even a moderately powerful spirit
No they won't. Also Ride is great for kiting.

>>96773871
>Paraphrasing a certain martial artist with a bowlcut, it doesn't matter how sharp-eyed and quick-witted you are if you can't actually do something about the fist barreling towards your face.
It doesn't matter how fast or strong you are if you can't see a knife in the dark or smell the poison in your cup. Also, being quick witted means you move first, and that matters a lot even in the media you're talking about, where being sharp-eyed and quick-witted does regularly make a key difference even when the folks with the fancy eyes are outsped.

>>96773849
Awareness/perception is the most used skill in a rpg.

From time to time we get a thread talking about it, in the catalog.

The worst supernal is war, because the tree is unfinished

>>96774073
Getting Tiger Warrior Training session 1 is a fantastic deal.

>>96774120
>Getting Tiger Warrior Training session 1 is a fantastic deal.
Is it, really? It's not really that strong in 3e unless you've started out with Command or Influence for useless troops, which kind of destroys the game for anybody who doesn't want to play a shitty warfare simulator.

>>96772153
Supernal Resistance anon again. Thank you for the words of encouragement but I'm still not sure how to go about it besides taking shitloads of damage and freaking people out after tanking shitloads of damage. Could you give some examples of Resistance stunts I could pull off taking advantage of my Supernal outside of combat?

>>96774237
>which kind of destroys the game for anybody who doesn't want to play a shitty warfare simulator.
Whose fault is it that they decided to be irrelevant?

>>96774259
No, it's not that they're irrelevant. It's that you're clogging up the game and slowing their progress to a crawl trying to drag thousands of people along pretending like they can play on the same field as a circle of solars.

>>96774271
Nope, it's that they're irrelevant.

>>96774276
If you're a War guy in a normal circle you are making everybody else have a worse time by association. A normal circle is fast, but an army doesn't fit on stormwind rider. A normal circle can throw down on a moment's notice, but you need to maneauvre this fucking brick you've got tied to you around to do anything and they have to stick around and play defense just to have a chance of it working. A normal circle can beat shikari, and yours can't. A normal circle looks at a ruin as a lootbox, but to you it's a deathtrap. Your circle wants to do anything social? Too bad, they've either been swamped by a hundred bodyguards or you've walked an army in and attempted to steal the spotlight by conquering the country... but you're too slow to matter and instead are sidelined for the rest of the session while they need to cover for your mistakes in a social atmosphere you've made incredibly hostile.

>>96774393
You could have been just as important as the War guy if you weren't retarded and spent all your merits on mighty thew and fleet of foot.

>>96772178
Okay, let me qualify my hatred of cuisine paragraphs for a sec.

When I first found one in AT8D I didn't actually hate it, I honestly though it was kind of neat. Was mildly surprised the writers researched some obscure foods, then moved on expecting the most "player-facing" edition to proceed to discuss interactive elements for the player.

Instead, what I mostly got was clipped backstories for each locale, a local lord court that could be summed up as "here's the traditionalist one, here's the scheming one, here's the sad one or the other scheming one", and a veritable lack of weirdness like Mt. Mostoth or Raksi's lair or really anything that I actually REMEMBERED from the Compass books. Don't get me wrong-they were shit in their own ways, but I at least went away from them with some cool ideas in mind. I went away from AT8D with far fewer. The wolf city, the sorcerer city and the patchwork creature city were the most memorable things for me. That and the Uzumaki reference but in a bad way.

I don't hate the cuisine paragraphs in and of themselves. I hate them because last I checked the devs are always excusing anything absent from the published material with "we didn't have enough wordcount!" and here I see fucking gook rice dishes taking up space that could've been used to write an eldritch sandstorm or something players could ACTUALLY interact with.

>>96774405
In the time it takes for the War guy to train his army most games are Essence 2.

>>96773007
This kills the 3efag. The problem with using Craft to brag that Solars haven't been powercrept is that in 3e, the heady heights of Craft are a lot more accessible to people who don't have the full Solar Craft suite.

>>96774249
>The village needs more water and the well is a mile away, tirelessly haul barrels of it for the whole morning-generously doing the work of an oxen team without breaking a sweat
>You're in a bar I'm going to call the Salty Spittoon. A bandit asks how tough you are. You crush the glass bottle in your hand to sand. He stares at it. You joke about how that's your jerking hand and you didn't mean to do that. Everyone laughs, intimidated but also reassured you're one of the boys.
>Two other Exalts (PC or NPC) are challenging each other. You pull a Venom Snake and physically wrest an orichalcum blade by the hilt to break up their fight.
>The pious monk you've rescued screams that you're a horrific anathema. He strikes out at you in violence in front of his congregation, then trembles as you approach. You pat off some dust from him, then reassure the congregation you're not the demon they're looking for. You leave without need for violence, inspiring confusion in the local community (probably a Wyld Hunt too but that's the price of being a restrained hero, also it's 3e and Wyld Hunts are just random Dragonblooded fratbro mobs so it's probably not as big as a deal. And you can just tell them you're an Exigent of the Golden Judge as a get out of jail free card anyway)

>>96773500
It being very cool is not the point, the point was whether Alchemicals surpass Solars in RAW POWER at above Elder Essence not whether or not the craft system can supplement that same raw power.

Which Great House does he belong to and what is his Aspect?

>>96774575
water

>>96774479
It is because they are written as menus, instead of integrated in the economics section.

>>96774525
These stunts are good stuff, thank you. I have a better idea of what I want to do now.

>>96771005
I'm sure you can just give a normal wolf one of the Giant like mutations. I think there are like 5 different versions of the buff.

>>96737261 (OP)
Mostly 2e with the worst parts removed.

The Yozi's prison was designed so that their very own natures made finding escape impossible for them. But the Green Sun Princes aren't Yozi nor slaves like Akuma, and the Exalted already did the impossible before when they killed the unkillable.

So escape is now very much a possibility, even if it'd be a massive project with potential false starts comparable to the Deathlords' ones to destroy the world (no Scarlet Empress as an easy solution for the Ebon Dragon)

Part of the temptation for the Infernals is that they get the full god-king package from the get go, with the Unquestionable as their potential peers or superiors and fairly broad freedom and authority as long as you are contributing to the cause in some way.

Don your crown of green flame and shatter the world's order, so that the architects of the world may remake it into something more fitting. Or reject the Yozis and the only allies you could have and try to forge something new yourself.

>>96774479
>I don't hate the cuisine paragraphs in and of themselves. I hate them because last I checked the devs are always excusing anything absent from the published material with "we didn't have enough wordcount!" and here I see fucking gook rice dishes taking up space that could've been used to write an eldritch sandstorm or something players could ACTUALLY interact with.
I feel like you play different games from others in here, because I would rather have interesting cultures to interact with that have deep-rooted problems to solve rather than something that is a one-off problem like an "eldritch sandstorm" or a behemoth.
>>96774550
Well, if you could please pick at least one example of something you think blows Solars out of the water, we can have an actual discussion. Otherwise I don't know, I don't see Alchemical cities doing shit like wringing anything they desire out of raw chaos, training a bunch of dipshit peasants to be the equivalent of Green Berets in a month, creating prophecies that result in a meteor hitting another city, etc., so you need to tell me what effects you think exceed these capabilities and more.

How do Sidereals go about infiltrating places that require specific clearance, documentation, being on a guest list, or something like that?

Can Resplendent Destinies by themselves do it, or do they need other stuff like a specific Charm or mundane (probably with excellencies) forgery?

>>96774259
You are correct, anon. Bureaucracy, Socialize and War are more important than combat abilities for a truly good game of Exalted.

>>96777832
>Can Resplendent Destinies by themselves do it, or do they need other stuff like a specific Charm or mundane (probably with excellencies) forgery?
Yes they can do it. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a moron buttmad people question the Guild's plot armor.

>>96777832
Resplendent Destinies give you the appearance of being an archetypal character, but you would still require credentials to get into restricted areas. You may look like the platonic ideal of a party-goer while wearing a destiny of the Peacock, but it doesn't grant you any actual clearance; if you're trying to break into an exclusive party hosted by Mnemon, you'd better come up with a good ruse.

>>96777932
>Yes they can do it. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a moron buttmad people question the Guild's plot armor.
I have no idea where the Guild comes into this (what a non sequitur!), but a Resplendent Destiny would not, on its own, get you through a restricted area. You can don a Destiny that makes you look like an officer and people will not question that you are indeed an officer if you look the part, but trying to slip into a legion general's tent will have the guy standing outside ask "Hey wait a minute, who are you? I've never seen you before."

>>96778030
>I have no idea where the Guild comes into this (what a non sequitur!),
Probably an overcorrection against the "the avarage guildmen can easily make elder exalted eat shit"* overcorrection.

*in before, this is a hyperbole.

>>96778030
Eh, don't mind it too much, just another case of Ink Monkeys poisoning the well with stupid shit like the Guild being able to defeat both the Realm and Bureaucracy-focused Solars in trade wars as well as thwarting every Sidereal attempt at infiltration all the way to the present day despite all of them being mortals.

>>96777675
>I feel like you play different games from others in here
I played the games advertised in 1e and 2e, which are completely unrecognisable from the game presented in 3e. And I feel they had a much better balance of eldritch sandstorms AND human society-based problems, instead of the game forcing you to experience some anthropology major's Game of Thrones fanfiction.
>if you could please
I'm frankly not optimistic we can when you're resorting to muh Craft system as a comparison point instead of opening with all that shit (and no, I am not impressed by God-King's Shrike, not only because it is damnably vague how devastating the top end of it's consequences actually are but because not only is there a ridiculous wind-up time but everyone and their mother gets an anti-God-King's Shrike Charm anyway). I'd say it's disheartening every 3efag resorts to disingenuous technicalities and mental gymnastics. But for the sake of clarity and not having anything better to do this weekend, I'll try to clarify what I thought was obvious:

>Being a permanent stronghold for a city-sized population without spending any Essence
>Exerting precise gravitational force to manually drive city-wide industry (Perpetual Singularity COllapse Engine)
>Colossi-scale drone bodies (Avatar-Launching Silos; eat your heart out Dual Magnus Prana)
>Mass producing innumerable alchemical and organic reagents WITHOUT needing to be in th Wyld to do so (and this is 3e, the Hand of Autochthon's interaction with protoshinmaic vortexes is not yet canon and therefore Craft is not yet a valid way for Solars to simulate this capability)
>Controlling, harnessing or redirecting environmental-scale phenomena (Climate-Scaulping Manifold Lathe
>Supplying all basic energy demands for a city-scale population with the Exalt's PERSONAL Essence pool
>Physically an entire army by dropping a small piece of your body on them (Lux Estasia did this. It apparently was NOT a use of a Charm)

>>96777675
>Mirroring the personalities and thoughts of alineage's current leaders and synthesizing them into a gestalt intelligence WITHOUT lobotomising yourself into a weird persona-obsessed schizo (Inspiring Monument of Virtue's unnamed Municipal Charm)
>Hanging upside down indefinitely (Wisant. Yes, I AM that petty. But also the infinite Luminance Engine that simultaneously supplies energy to a sizeable portion of the populace while retaining enough to create city-scale illumination is unironically brighter than any Solar has shone indefinitely in 3e)
>Creating constant blasts of electricity over dozens over an environment indefinitely (Lightning Regulation Matrix)
>Deflecting entire armies at once (Crystalline Defense Matrix; I'm going to be real generous and assume a similar Charm for deflecting hazardous weather is covered under 3e Heavenly Guardian Defence but the issue here is that mass combat does NOT use the same rules for defence resolution)
>Making city-scale populations see each other in the best possible light (Eusocial Luminance Array)
>Manipulating leylines for miles in every direction with SINGLE Charm activation (Geomantic Flux Attenuators)
>Diverting excess heat on a city-wide scale to productive ends (Thermal Redirection Forge)

>>96777675
For the sake of argument I've decided to omit every mention of Municipal Charms that involve mass producing conventional equipment, even though I would argue the fact that the single Charm is producing that effect deserves some credit compared to how Solars generally need at least more than one Craft Charm to start pumping out massive arrays of artifacts. Anyway I look forward to you explaining how, in an edition that presents Gajum-Um (a castle-sized toad with an attendant army of moths who can shoot a beam similar to Shin Gojira) as a threat fit for an entire circle that you can in any way, shape or form claim a Metropoli (which is more powerful than Gajam-Un in every conceivable way apart from having it's fiat spirit-killer charm immune immortality simply because a Metropoli is bigger than and has more resources to call upon than a SINGLE manse) hasn't powercrept INDIVIDUAL Solars in terms of.

And I want you to pay particular attention to this part.

INDIVIDUAL Charm potency, the entire contention point the 3e devs tried to make by claiming there is no increase in INDIVIDUAL Solar Charm power above E5.

>>96777675
>I feel like you play different games from others in here, because I would rather have interesting cultures to interact with that have deep-rooted problems to solve rather than something that is a one-off problem like an "eldritch sandstorm" or a behemoth.
Those problems are pretty samey, "old expansionists with succession crisis".

>>96778616
It is similar to "charms don't exist in universe vs Sidereals" or "the law of diminishment vs older exalted types".
It was a change without thinking how it would affect the rest of the setting.

Also for the sake of argument I've decided to omit the present but vaguely define ability for Metropoli to wipe cities off the map since unless I've missed something I don't think it's clear if they're doing it with INDIVIDUAL Municipal Charms or a combination of things. I could argue the scale of non-combat focused Municipal Charms suggests combat-focused ones could in fact wipe cities off the map in a timeframe faster than God-King's Shrike, but that's technically conjecture unless I'm forgetting something. Assuming that is the case though, the only Solar Charm that can compete in a similar timeframe is Burning Sky Apocalypse Strike, and for the purpose of determining INDIVIDUAL Charm potency I've heard some contradictory views on whether or not by RAW with no other Charm backing it up it actually can oneshot an Autochthonia-style city (as opposed to some tribal village in the East or a couple of huts in the North).

I'm making this distinction mainly because I personally err toward assuming that if a utility Municipal Charm can do something like forge metal with gravity, swat aside a thunderstorm or generate massive amounts of electricity than a combat-focused one probably is just a wave motion cannon that blasts city-sized craters into the ground instead of something more cumbersome or abstract as 3efags seem to try to defend the inconsistency with. But in the interest honesty I do want to admit I don't remember coming across a named, discrete Municipal Charm that actually confirms this. The most clearcut destructive Metropoli feat I can find in 3e is the Charm modification accident that got an entire city crystalised in a flahs.

>>96778854
Didn't they walk back on "charms don't exist in universe" at the last minute? I mean, when 3e literally depicts Municipal Charms as things the characters interact with in-setting there need to be some serious loopholes jumped through to claim they don't exist, or that Alchemicals are the ONLY Exalts in existence for whom Charms are real.

>>96778885
Both Sidereals and Alchemicals have real charms.
I think there's a really easy lore roll to know the existence of Sidereal's charms.

>>96778913
Right well, then I'm choosing to believe that is yet another stupid 3e idea they've tried to sweep under the rug after realising it was retarded along with the idea elder Essence does not in fact raise the individual power of Charms.

Unless for some utterly numinous reason, Solars and only Solars don't have Charms in 3e.

>>96778940
It seems that Alchemicals and Sidereals have Charms that are recognized as things, according to a specific call-out paragraph, while most other Exalted printed lack this note. So for Solars and Solar accessories aka the Abyssals and Infernals, no Charms. For Lunars, no Charms.

>>96778479
>>96778597
>>96778616
Most of these are powers demonstrated by manses (redirecting elemental phenomena, powering cities, creating weaponry, redirecting dragon lines), and some of these complaints are you missing things while skimming; I specifically want to call out the Thousand Elixirs Crucible bit because you missed, in the single sentence describing it, that it draws its base materials from nutrient conduits. Its not making things out of nothing, its doing chemical synthesis with preexisting compounds.

I don't really get the focus on "individual charm potency", to be frank, especially considering the limitations of Municipal charms (makes the Alchemical permanently sessile, requires tons of mortal manpower to operate, requires constant resource intake to maintain) that are more of a drawback and something to plan around than a Solar's high level charms.

>>96779090
Yes, these two are the exception.

Despite knowing that it was a reaction to 2e, and 2 of its functions, I still don't understand this bit of design.

>>96779128
If I'm remembering this clearly, a lot of people considered Charms to somehow be separate from the character, as opposed to a capability that they developed as a demigod. Basically, they're supposed to be as integral as Attributes, Abilities, or chargen purchase-only merits.

My dick is more powerful than any municipal charms.

>>96779303
put your dick away walter

>>96779447
No.

>https://xcancel.com/shitposts_mp4/status/1979351731684155745#m
Can Sidereals do this?

>>96779095
>Most of these are powers demonstrated by manses (redirecting elemental phenomena, powering cities, creating weaponry, redirecting dragon lines)
nta but no 3e manse has actually shown powers on the scale of the equivalent municipal charms for any of those things.

>>96779095
>I don't really get the focus on "individual charm potency"
I've noticed that a lot of 3efags, when running out of ways to tell you why you're having fun wrong, just go "I don't understand why you won't AGREE WITH THE DEVELOPERS ON EVERYTHING YOU FICKLE CHUD". You are no exception, and I am legitimately at a loss about why you expect any kind of civil discussion if you keep deflecting, prevaricating, making false equivalences or insinuate it's my fault for not being entertained by the product instead of the other way around. Because I prefer to be honest and direct instead of engaging in this Discord-like backhanded insult bullshit: I think you're full of shit and you know it.

Most is not all, and not even close to what you listed. I don't remember Solars redirecting elemental phenomena or PERSONALLY generating enough energy to power a city. Also you just completely missed the "wipe cities off the map NOW" complaint. In particular I feel you're seriously underselling the advantage of Colossi drone bodies and providing city-wide industry with GRAVITY alone rather than breakable artifacts.

>>96779799
I expect the 3efag to go "Nuh uh! Gajam-un totally counts as a manse!" since he has completely failed to address the point I made about Metropoli being large scale enough to encompass multiple manses, and 3e apparently established sentient manses as things that entire circles of Solars even during the First Age struggled to defeat. Moreso than the Primordials themselves, hilariously. It was apparently harder to find a way to kill Frog Mechagodzilla than it was to invent Ghost-Eating Technique for the purposes of slaying Mardukth.

>>96779095
>that are more of a drawback
Also you're just moving the goalposts. The point was not whether or not they come with drawbacks; to set the record clear I actually find it perfectly flavorable and unique that Metropoli operate on a relatively cumbersome scale compared to Solars since it fits the Autochthonian theme of collective effort that contrasts with Creation's relatively individualist heroism. That is not relevant for the point I was making about the 3e devs' dishonesty.

The point is that they ARE MORE POWERFUL and OPERATE ON A LARGER SCALE regardless of whatever other drawbacks they have. The 3e devs flat out lied. No other extenuating circumstances matter, because it means there was no reason to remove Devil-Tigers (and since we're going here, Onceborn for potential ambitious Abyssals) apart from setting logistical limitations like those given fo Municipal Charms if you actually cared about consistency. The scale of power, however you like to cut it, has increased with Elder Essence.

>>96779870
>no reason to remove Devil-Tigers (and since we're going here, Onceborn for potential ambitious Abyssals)
They're boring, honestly.

>>96779799
Looking through AT8D and the Realm:
>The most frequently mentioned type of manses are Wood Manses that render entire regions around them extremely fertile. Myion in The Realm benefits from one such manse.
>The manses of the Saltspire League once purified the entire River of Tears of salt, supporting vast stretches of farmland along it
>The manse in Gapwood wards off undesirable spirits, beasts, and makes the weather around it clement
>The manse on Shimmering Thread weakens storms around it to keep the island its on safe
>The palace manse of Ember can show its masters mass movements (landslides, caravans, marching armies, etc) in the surrounding region.
>Most famously, the Realm Defense Grid is powered by several manses and is, itself, a manse
>>96779835
Don't really get your frustration, I'm just not sure what advantages "individual charm potency" (I'm just quoting what you say) brings to the table, especially when talking about NPCs that do not purchase charms at all and often conjoin the powers of several charms into one to save space.

I also didn't really see the point in addressing the "what if a city could blow up another city instantly" point when you yourself were not actually sure if a city could do this. There are no examples of "wave motion cannons", as you say, and the offensive capabilities of metropoli are rather limited as they cannot move and cannot walk. Your standard Solar sorcerer can zip around on a Stormwind Rider and begin casting Rain of Doom on a whim, though.
>>96779852
I don't really know what a Gajam-Un is, sorry. For a 3e hater you appear to have read at least one more book than I have.
>>96779870
The scale appears to be operating on the same level one can achieve with Celestial/Solar sorcery and Crafting charms under that of Essence 5, which is to say creating long-lasting city-wide/regional effects.

>>96779950
>cannot move and cannot walk
Sorry, accidentally deleted a line. Meant to say that they can't move on their own and there's no real way of guaranteeing an opposing city will even be in their line of sight due to how Autochthonia's innards shift around constantly.

>>96779950
If you're going to just answer every single objection I have with "I don't get it" or try to gaslight me into thinking the sky is green, then don't complain that we can't have a civil discussion about anything in these threads and nobody wants to have one with you specifically. The game is making itself fucking lame and trying to backtrack on that while pretending it made a mistake to cling to sacred cows, which I find more intellectually dishonest than if it had actually done something interesting with those limitations than . Also you're full of shit if you think "make region extremely fertile" is close to flooding it with actual no-bullshit lightning, structured uses of gravity and so on. Or city-wiping artillery.

I want to play a demigod without having to give a shit about the arbitrary limitations placed on a certain upper level of play. I was drawn to previous games because of that appeal, and I dislike having my toy taken away from me.

>I'm just quoting what you say
Yes, you passive aggressive Darla-ass bitch, I remember what you just wrote.
>Realm Defence Grid
See? Now you're just being deliberately disingenuous when you've run out of arguments. The RGD is not something Solars are meant to be casually capable of building, if it was it wouldn't be considered special.
>can show its masters mass movements
Weak.
>purify water
Weak.
>Wards off spirits
This is the most impressive effect you've listed and Lunar Territory Charms are better at it.
>Weakens storms
Oh so it doesn't even COMPLETELY deflect them? Fucking WEAK

I really don't know what to say if you're going to sit here and insult my intelligence by saying with a straight face that a fucking glorified water purifier is in any way, shape or form comparable to a fucking army-deflecting forcefield.

>>96779950
>>96779950
>I don't really know what a Gajam-Un is, sorry. For a 3e hater you appear to have read at least one more book than I have.
That's okay, here's all the relevant info from Hundred Devils Night Parade

>For a 3e hater you appear to have read at least one more book than I have.
You're goddamn right I do. I hate 3e so much I pirate the new material so I know what to rip into about it when arguing with retards like you, since I'm under no impression the devs will improve anything at this point after hiding in their little hugbox. Just because I despise the edition for ruining something I once enjoyed doesn't mean I try to make shit up about it.

>>96779972
>I really don't know what to say if you're going to sit here and insult my intelligence by saying with a straight face that a fucking glorified water purifier is in any way, shape or form comparable to a fucking army-deflecting forcefield
Most municipal charms are "weak" effects like that, which is to say that they do very nice things for the citizens that make them nice to live in and optimize economic output but would not win a war by themselves, but I would argue that purifying a river the length of the Rio Grande is pretty epic in scope.

I also think you've gotten the effects of the Crystalline Defense Matrix overstated. It throws a few domes up over some shelters and then starts screaming loudly enough to disorient attackers. Its akin to casting a few Terrestrial spells and one Cantata of Empty Voices, rather than encasing an entire city in a forcefield as you suggest.
>>96779987
>You're goddamn right I do. I hate 3e so much I pirate the new material so I know what to rip into about it when arguing with retards like you, since I'm under no impression the devs will improve anything at this point after hiding in their little hugbox. Just because I despise the edition for ruining something I once enjoyed doesn't mean I try to make shit up about it.
I don't really think this is a healthy mindset to have in regards to media you like. This gives me the same melancholy feeling I have when I see older people talking about how Star Wars is ruined forever instead of just rewatching the old ones and finding something new to enjoy. Being trapped in the past forever is kind of frightening to me, and I hope when I hit my 40s I'm not doing this kind of thing you are with my favorite things I have right now.

>>96780058
>media you like
???

>>96780058
>Most
>but would not win a war by themselves
I don't care. Charms for blowing cities up are both possible and alluded to in the conflicts surrounding the Eight Nations. Your insinuation that Metropoli are helpless friendly little happy cities blatantly contradicts some of the fluff about wars with Yugash and such that explicitly describe Metropoli engaging in large scale war against with each other, unless you have a developer statement or sidebar or something you can use to back up the idea Metropoli aren't suited for warfare at all I'm going to call complete bullshit about that.

>I'm going to argue
And I'm going to argue using gravity as a fucking city-wide forge is more epic than that in the sense that sorcery is more epic than thaumaturgy.

>It throws a few domes up over some shelters
It's the range. I don't think Cantata of Empty Voices has nearly the same range.

>healthy mindset
If I had a healthy mindset I wouldn't be stuck on this dying fucking site with Hiromoot's inbred mods talking about a game I should have accepted was fucked the moment I saw how long it took 3e core to come out with dipshits like you trying to have a "civil discussion" in which-to me-look like you trying to gaslight me into thinking words don't mean what they say, read between the lines for the specific interpretation YOU believe in, and guilt me for having fun wrong. There is however nothing you can say to convince me not to like the things I like, and to view them as things absolutely necessary for the game to be as entertaining as it was when I got into it. I enjoy my own anger more than you dislike my inability to view 3e as this infallible gift from God you style it as.

I find your fake-friendly, fake-concern, passive aggressive dogmatism more insulting than if you'd just wished death threats on me and offered to fuck my mother.

>>96780058
>This gives me the same melancholy feeling I have when I see older people talking about how Star Wars is ruined forever instead of just rewatching the old ones and finding something new to enjoy
They're right, though. Star Wars was ruined, forever, when they disbanded the EU. It was ruined forever, again, every time they added something that made the characters of previous films retroactively stupider (see: Holdo maneuver) in ways that could not themselves be retconned or explained away. You couldn't just treat the new Disney stuff as it's own spin-off and disregard to continue reading your preferred content, your preferred content was actively interfered with, retconned, and removed from stores.

"Just ignore the new stuff and reconsume your preferred era of content" is not a healthy way to go about anything when people are still sticking their dicks up the ass of the old stuff and stirring in shit. There's no release valve of new content breathing in fresh air anymore, any amount of ongoing bullshit will spread through to effect the whole thing.

>>96780129
I was about to say at least Wars didn't get done nearly as dirty as Trek, but the Janeway spinoff cartoon was decent and at least they got some cool weird aliens out of it. Star Wars got...all space travel being retroactively engineering from random space whales and Thrawn being lobotomised during his Ahab-like quest for them.

>>96780137
I never thought I'd say this but it almost makes you wish for the Yuuzhan Vong.

>>96780148
I know it's hypocritical coming from the guy who's spent most of this weekend day screaming at another autist about a game neither of us wants to play with each other, but I genuinely feel sorry for Star Wars fans (the ones who weren't involved in bullying that kid actor from Phantom Menace I mean) for the absolute state of their franchise, and I'm very relieved that UNLIKE Exalted I never got that hard into it. Honestly I always found the OT mid, and was able to enjoy the PT as dumb fun-with RotS in particular as really putting the "opera" in space opera for me. I think KOTOR and specifically the Sith Warrior plot for TOR were the Star Wars things that hooked me in the most, and it was still just a passing fad.

Given how angry I still am merely from having forced myself to remember 3e material to engage in an internet argument, I can't even imagine how assblasted it must feel seeing Rey declare herself the last Skywalker after she stole from Luke and left like a thief in the night.

>>96780098
You know, movies, games, tabletop RPGs, books.
>>96780114
I'm not alleging that metropoli are nice at all, but that the majority of Municipal charms are intended to boost economic production and make the cities livable in an otherwise totally inhospitable world. I still don't really know where you're getting the idea that they have weaponry capable of killing entire cities; you mentioned Perygra, but that city wasn't building a death laser or something to that effect, it built a radio to talk to Autochthon and that triggered an immune response from the Machine God himself. Its like when a mosquito bites someone in their sleep and they reflexively slap it without waking up.

I also don't understand why you've decided I'm trying to attack you or "guilt you for having fun wrong". What does that even mean? I've disagreed with you on some minutiae regarding charm strengths and you're spinning this into me cyber-bullying you. Very odd.
>>96780129
>"Just ignore the new stuff and reconsume your preferred era of content" is not a healthy way to go about anything when people are still sticking their dicks up the ass of the old stuff and stirring in shit.
Oh you don't mean that, surely you've found something new you enjoy.

>>96780209
>the majority of Municipal of charms are-
Irrelevant. There's no metaphysical in-setting force limiting Metropoli from weaponising further, most of their Charms are focused on environmental support because that's their priority.

>I still don't really know
And I no longer care enough to bring up the allusions to metropoli destroying each other or similar scale targets since you're not only not arguing in good faith, but stubbornly refusing to see the weaponisation potential even in those economic production and survivability Municipal Charms. If even THOSE have clearcut weaponry potential what the actual fuck is stopping Metropoli from developing war-ready ones other than your increasingly flimsy attempts to deny the fact that METROPOLI CHARMS ARE OBJECTIVELY MORE POWERFUL THAN 3E E5 SOLAR ONES

>Very odd
Since you're refusing to acknowledge the backhanded sniping you've been doing all thread like an actual woman, you've just proven you never wanted to have a good faith discussion at all. I don't know why you're this dedicated to defending he developers, but they're never going to fuck you/.

I'm just going to insult and ridicule you from now on since you just keep dodging the actual point I'm making to go "I feel" or "I don't think" instead of address the elephant in the room that should've been obvious: Solars can't turn into cities, Gajam-Un is too powerful for multiple First Age Solars to defeat, there is nothing by RAW stopping Metropoli from building themselves into threats deadlier than Gajam-Un if we're inferring Exalt capabilities from the craft system via Warstriders, therefore whatever other limitations you want to hem and haw at Municipal Charms Metropoli are objectively more powerful than Elder Solars in 3e.

>>96780209
Also, ALSO, because I can feel your idiocy going "but what's wrong with this anyway??" at me again, because you are either legitimately that retarded or that insufferable, the point is THE 3E DEVS LIED BECAUSE THEY WERE TOO FUCKING LAZY TO PROPERLY BALANCE ELDER ESSENCE.

And took the easy way out, which was to just go "We're not doing it, it's for your own good" only to completely go back on that because they didn't want to upset Alchemical players by taking away their favourite toys.

nobody plays 2e or 1e because they're complety unplayable dog shit btw

>>96780252
But enough about 3e.

>>96780159
>I can't even imagine how assblasted it must feel seeing Rey declare herself the last Skywalker
I boycotted/haven't watched anything after The Last Jedi in an attempt to preserve some love for the series. I heard about this though, and it still sounds so nonsensical to me that I can fit it into the 'hearsay missing context' part of my head instead of the 'that's canon now' part.

>after she stole from Luke and left like a thief in the night.
That was not what I would call the action of a good person, no. Ghost Yoda calling down force lightning was the part of that scene which was more of a fuck-you retcon to the franchise though.

>>96780209
>Oh you don't mean that, surely you've found something new you enjoy.
Yeah, I moved to new content. I didn't re-consume the old stuff that was still getting shafted. I stopped watching Star Wars. I shifted from 2e to 3e and from 3e to Essence and then Demake.

>>96780268
>Demake
Did you skip ExWoD? I ask mainly because it has more material by comparison

>>96779987
>You're goddamn right I do. I hate 3e so much I pirate the new material so I know what to rip into about it when arguing with retards like you, since I'm under no impression the devs will improve anything at this point after hiding in their little hugbox. Just because I despise the edition for ruining something I once enjoyed doesn't mean I try to make shit up about it.
mental illness

>>96780273
>Did you skip ExWoD? I ask mainly because it has more material by comparison
I had a brief foray, as a player instead of as a Storyteller, but it was play by post and did the equivalent of dying in session three from lack of engagement. I don't have much experience with WoD and some of my regular group aren't a fan of it, so when we decided we'd explored everything the Essence system had to offer we went to Demake instead of ExWoD. I'm still somewhat interested in running it but I think I'm more likely to try a proper WoD game instead if I do decide to pick up some randoms.

>>96780291
Understandable honestly, I can't see most games going well unless both the players and ST are familiar with both at least one WoD splat and Exalted as well. Demake makes more sense since you just have to get the general gist of Exalted.

>>96780237
>I'm just going to insult and ridicule you from now on since you just keep dodging the actual point I'm making to go "I feel" or "I don't think" instead of address the elephant in the room that should've been obvious: Solars can't turn into cities, Gajam-Un is too powerful for multiple First Age Solars to defeat, there is nothing by RAW stopping Metropoli from building themselves into threats deadlier than Gajam-Un if we're inferring Exalt capabilities from the craft system via Warstriders, therefore whatever other limitations you want to hem and haw at Municipal Charms Metropoli are objectively more powerful than Elder Solars in 3e.

None of this can logically derived from anything. Its like saying that because Superman can't kill Mister Mxyzptlk and because Mister Mxyzptlk looks a little like Danny Devito, that means Danny Devito could kill Superman if he wanted to.

Does anyone have a link to Holden's ExWoD drive full of bonus content? Revellers and such. Misplaced mine a while back.

>>96780352
Well, I disagree. Also your mother smelled of hamsters and your father was an elderberry.

>>96780237
Where are you getting that Gajam-Un is too powerful for First Age Solars? It didn't start wrecking shit until after the Usurpation, so that line about multiple Exalted struggling to defeat it refers to Dragon-Blooded

>>96780739
Alright yeah I fucked up communicating that in my rage, I meant to say it took multiple First Age Exalts (not just one Solar) to bring it down in the first place (showing it's more powerful than an individual First Age Solar, thereby inferring that by RAW any Metropolis could modify the manses inside themselves into weapons of similar calibre. Especially given their closeness to Auto, given Gajam is made of a detached demon/deva or Primordial organ) and also they didn't find a way to permanently kill it.

>>96779960
One is a submarine, so some can move on their own.

>>96779128
I think it's to make them techniques your character has created, instead of discrete things.
Like
>PC: I use Excellent Strike to attack the enemy
>NPC: *rolls Occult* Huh, that's like the Clean Cut technique that one Solar Anathema used.
instead of
>NPC: *rolls Occult* Oh shit that's Excellent Strike, it's a Solar Anathema
or something, idk.

>>96780291
Which version of Demake do you use and how has it been?

>>96780252
1e isn't unplayable. It is a mystery while all the best Lunar Charms are in the Alchemicals book, but whatever.

>>96779795
Sure, why not?