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Thread 96749370

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Anonymous No.96749370 [Report] >>96750102 >>96750437 >>96750471 >>96751153 >>96751699 >>96751962 >>96752363 >>96757502 >>96758936 >>96759228 >>96760299 >>96764640 >>96764931 >>96765378 >>96766545 >>96778493 >>96779055 >>96779272 >>96781587 >>96782967 >>96793769 >>96794075 >>96794874 >>96821054 >>96821887 >>96836705
What game has the best dark elves?
Anonymous No.96749388 [Report] >>96749445 >>96749986 >>96757075 >>96764722 >>96778534 >>96803554 >>96837659
D&D invented the concept.
Anonymous No.96749445 [Report] >>96749492 >>96772882 >>96807790
>>96749388
https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Moriquendi
>In Norse mythology, there are the Light Elves (Ljósálfar) and the Dark Elves (Dökkálfar or Svartálfar), a tradition which was well known to J.R.R. Tolkien.[5]
Anonymous No.96749492 [Report] >>96749946
>>96749445
Yeah, but all modern Drow lore and concepts as we know them come from D&D.
Anonymous No.96749946 [Report] >>96749992
>>96749492
>Take existing thing and staple to it
>I created this
Anonymous No.96749986 [Report] >>96749992
>>96749388
OP asked for the best, not D&Dogshit.
Anonymous No.96749992 [Report] >>96750410 >>96750422 >>96758980 >>96780199
>>96749986
>>96749946
D&D popularized Drow as a concept.
Anonymous No.96750091 [Report]
I wonder how many RPG systems have playable dark elves, that are not D&D or offshoots (like Pathfinder).
My gut-feeling tells me that D&D-likes are the exceptions in making supposedly evil elves playable.
Warhammer Fantasy is not one - yet.
Anonymous No.96750102 [Report] >>96750437 >>96751120 >>96752405
>>96749370 (OP)
Elder Scrolls, you s'wit
Anonymous No.96750410 [Report]
>>96749992
Yes, and?
Anonymous No.96750422 [Report] >>96757368
>>96749992
You have to be truly retarded to think being the first to popularize something makes you good at that thing. Then again, if you're trying to defend D&D, that goes without saying.
Anonymous No.96750437 [Report] >>96751120
>>96749370 (OP)
Dunmer from TES are the only ones that come to mind who aren't just basically drow in another setting and have plenty of their own well crafted culture, lore and identity. Most of which is really fucking cool
>>96750102
This Muthsera knows what's up
Anonymous No.96750471 [Report] >>96750700 >>96751720 >>96757747 >>96838970
>>96749370 (OP)
As others have said, Elder Scrolls. Dunmer have dark traits like practicing slavery and openly having assassin's guilds while still being a believable culture and not just cartoonishly evil for its own sake like the D&D and Warhammer versions.
Anonymous No.96750700 [Report] >>96758948
>>96750471
To be honest, enslaving Argonians is not really evil or bad.
Anonymous No.96751023 [Report] >>96751077 >>96751265 >>96751656
>Drow
>Warhammer Dark Elves
>Dunmer
>Lineage Dark Elves
Why no matter the setting, no matter the skin color, dark elves are always sluts?
Anonymous No.96751077 [Report] >>96751089 >>96751692 >>96794384 >>96815371
>>96751023
Dunmer aren't sluts.
There are ultimately only two works that hint at it: Barenziah and that one joke book. Both are ancient Daggerfall lore, and the Barenziah book directly objects this idea. And the joke book wasn't written by a dunmer.
With Morrowind, they turned from generic dark elves to staunch traditionalists that left Summerset because Velothi thought that place was too degenerate. It's hard to find actual slutty Morrowind dunmer NPCs in their actual game.
I'd argue that drow women aren't sluts either, it's just the result of their god-imposed matriarchy at work, but FR is an all-out fuckfest in general, not just for elves
Anonymous No.96751089 [Report] >>96751109
>>96751077
Dunmer openly have brothels, even in ESO.
And one of their "good daedra" is Mephala the goddess of sex.
Anonymous No.96751109 [Report]
>>96751089
>even in ESO
It's probably just ESO. The House of Earthly Delights in Suran is a tavern, owned by a Breton (who seem to have a history of being lewd, but we apparently don't talk about that), and none of the dancers are dunmer.
And other races don't have brothels? But if they have, it doesn't mean their women are supersluts. It only counts for dunmer.
Anonymous No.96751120 [Report]
>>96750437
>>96750102
I always felt like Morrowind was some drug fuelled craziness that worked in making such a cool world.

Of course the spear book where Vivec and Molag Bal appear in is so fucking bizarre I don't even know how that makes you more skilled
Anonymous No.96751153 [Report] >>96751189 >>96751281 >>96812125
>>96749370 (OP)
It's funny how the lore always describes drow as having jet black skin, but the art always depicts them as grey, blue, purple, or red
Anonymous No.96751160 [Report] >>96751189
>if a race has brothels it means their females are sluts
No, it means their males have a sex-drive.
Anonymous No.96751189 [Report]
>>96751160
I didn't specify females. Slut can refer to either gender.

>>96751153
Some old artworks used brownish tones for drow skin, that was hilarious.
Anonymous No.96751206 [Report]
More like Dork Elves, amrite?
Anonymous No.96751224 [Report] >>96751281
Okay, drow are the dark elves of D&D, but what about Shadar-kai? Don't they kinda also qualify as dark elves? Since they are elves. And dark.
Anonymous No.96751265 [Report]
>>96751023
Well, why shouldn't they be?
Anonymous No.96751281 [Report]
>>96751153
Well yeah it's really hard to draw jet black skin and have discernible features.
>>96751224
They occupy the same conceptual space, sure. D&D has tons of redundant races like that.
Anonymous No.96751393 [Report] >>96751418 >>96751632 >>96757756 >>96794832
How is it possible that there hasn't been a better dark elf character created in 27 years?
Anonymous No.96751418 [Report] >>96752152 >>96765197
>>96751393
Okay, explain why she is a good character without mentioning Ashram or anything else related to her relationship to him.
Anonymous No.96751632 [Report] >>96772743
>>96751393
>random anime crap
>good
Lol.
Anonymous No.96751656 [Report] >>96838997
>>96751023
>Basically every culture places a number of moral commandments or restrictions on sexuality and traditionally perceives being too promiscuous or weird about sex as immoral (or at least in bad taste)
>Dark elves are generally characterised as being immoral or at least having a moral system many would consider evil
It's not exactly complex
Besides women with unnatural skin colours are fucking hot. Same reason why plenty of human reskin races in various sci-fi settings often get heavily sexualised (Twi'lek, Asari etc.). Now why is that a case I have no clue, but it's certainly an interesting question to ask
Anonymous No.96751692 [Report] >>96751728
>>96751077
>skyrimslopper talking down about Daggerfall
Anonymous No.96751699 [Report]
>>96749370 (OP)
2nd Edition AD&D set in Menzoberanzen.

All other suggestions are inferior.
Anonymous No.96751720 [Report] >>96752321 >>96757208 >>96757231 >>96794502
>>96750471
I dunno, they're pretty awful people. Hugely racist even against their own born in the wrong place. Murder as an institution. Church is tyrannical as hell. Even before that they worshiped a murderous whore, a traitorous douchebag, and Azura. Everyone is awful in TES in the normal way people are but dunmer are above the curve.
Anonymous No.96751728 [Report]
>>96751692
I mentioned Morrowind-stuff for a reason, anon.
Anonymous No.96751962 [Report]
>>96749370 (OP)
Mine :)
Anonymous No.96752152 [Report] >>96757756
>>96751418
I really like the way she mirrors Deedlit and the high elves in general in a way where you can see that they come from a similar environment, but have opposed world views. I'm also weak to how the bad guys interact in Lodoss and Piro is an example of how the bad guys can be pretty good people just stuck in the bad guy camp.

And finally, she's really fucking hot.
Anonymous No.96752321 [Report]
>>96751720
Didn't say they weren't but for all that they're still believable, there are awful cultures in the real world too.
Anonymous No.96752363 [Report] >>96757218 >>96794384
>>96749370 (OP)
Melniboneans are the OG and the template for modern evil elves. Both the drow and the dark eldar are essentially knockoffs of them (and the cosmology of both D&D and Warhammer are heavily influenced by Elric in general), and they're still the coolest. We're talking back in 1961 with evil sorcerer-elves keeping mutilated slaves to play like musical instruments. By the time D&D and Warhammer got their hands on the concept (1977 and 1987 respectively) it was already an old hat.
Anonymous No.96752405 [Report] >>96752611
>>96750102
Video games have their own board.
Anonymous No.96752611 [Report] >>96752620
>>96752405
There are 2 different RPG systems and 2 tabletop wargames for TES, I've ran 2 campaigns in the setting myself
It's just as /tg/ related as Tolkien or Lovecraft inspired things are
Anonymous No.96752620 [Report]
>>96752611
Sure, I guess. It and Warhammer and other D&D derivatives are tangentionally related to real game, I suppose.
Anonymous No.96757075 [Report] >>96757093
>>96749388
Only if you ignore the pulp stories that heavily inspired D&D such as importantly in this case Elric which had the Melniboneans who formed the foundation for modern Dark elves despite not actually being elves themselves ironically
Anonymous No.96757093 [Report]
>>96757075
Melniboneans, Vadhagh, Nadragh, and Eldren are all elves, buddy. Even when they are not called that in their respective universes, they are variants of the same race humans know as Elves.
Anonymous No.96757104 [Report] >>96758991
Let's have it for the man who singlehandedly ruined not just Drow, but all Dark Elves by association
Anonymous No.96757208 [Report]
>>96751720

The difference is Dunmer come off as within the normal range of human expression and morality, but still somewhat alien.
Anonymous No.96757218 [Report] >>96758963
>>96752363

Also, the designs for Warhammer elves are literally just repurposed from when they had the rights to make Elric minis. The pointed hats and so on. They literally were Melnibonean miniatures that they started calling elves at some point.
Anonymous No.96757231 [Report] >>96757677
>>96751720
Argonian claws typed this post
Anonymous No.96757368 [Report]
>>96750422
Clearly, they were good 'at that thing' if they made it popular.
Anonymous No.96757502 [Report] >>96757515
>>96749370 (OP)
Anonymous No.96757515 [Report]
>>96757502
There are worse ways to die, that's for sure.
Anonymous No.96757677 [Report]
>>96757231
>implying Argonians can be literate
Anonymous No.96757714 [Report] >>96757724 >>96757763
Any decent dark elf/drow novels, other than Elric, War of the Spider Queen, Drizzt origins trilogy and Malus Darkblade?
Anonymous No.96757724 [Report]
>>96757714
The Real Barenziah
Anonymous No.96757747 [Report] >>96757754
>>96750471
>and not just cartoonishly evil for its own sake like the D&D and Warhammer versions.
*laughs in Telvanni*
Anonymous No.96757754 [Report] >>96757774
>>96757747
What's wrong with Telvanni?
Anonymous No.96757756 [Report] >>96761436
>>96751393
>>96752152
Based fellow Pirotess enjoyer and great points. Love dark elves of all kinds.
Anonymous No.96757757 [Report] >>96757761
Except male elves.
Anonymous No.96757761 [Report]
>>96757757
Too late.
Gayboy.
Anonymous No.96757763 [Report] >>96757873 >>96777133 >>96780188 >>96781142 >>96816242
>>96757714
Shadows and Starlight. One of the very few FR series that's Eilistraee-focused and Elaine Cunningham is trying to show the drow society in a more nuanced light.
I guess Liriel Baenre sometimes gets away with too much bullshit. But then it eventually comes to a head when her friend gets killed by a drow raiding party, because he failed to realize that not every drow is going to be as nice and reasonable as Liriel, so I'll let that pass.
Anonymous No.96757774 [Report] >>96758996
>>96757754
IMO, they are probably the closest thing the Elder Scrolls have to a proper drow culture. They are not stupid evil per se, they are just racist, isolationist assholes that practice murder as solving political problems.
The entire Hortator quest in Morrowind is essentially about your patron going "you can just try to convince all those councillors to your cause, or you may just murder them, because that's the proper Telvanni way".
Anonymous No.96757873 [Report] >>96757917 >>96764966
>>96757763
How much nude drow moonlight dancing does it have?
Anonymous No.96757917 [Report] >>96757920
>>96757873
It has sex scenes, nude moondancing, whole kit and caboodle.
Anonymous No.96757920 [Report]
>>96757917
I will now read your novel
Anonymous No.96758936 [Report]
>>96749370 (OP)
aw, in the thumbnail I thought that was going to be uthegental on the upper right
but its just dumb ol jeggred
Anonymous No.96758948 [Report] >>96758977 >>96812220
>>96750700
damn near every named argonian npc in the series is a bro
Anonymous No.96758963 [Report]
>>96757218
I always hated Warhammer fans (40k and fantasy) jerking off the setting or calling StarCraft a ripoff when like 90% of Warhammer is copy-pasted from other shit and given a paint job
Anonymous No.96758967 [Report] >>96818574
Not good by any measure, but just for completeness.
Although I did like space knifeships made of stone.
Anonymous No.96758977 [Report] >>96759009
>>96758948
The only tolerable argonians are
1) Lifts-Her-Tail
2) Argonian Nerevarine (Boa tarde, amigo!)

All the rest are trash. Zero respect.
Anonymous No.96758980 [Report] >>96758995
>>96749992
About that...
Anonymous No.96758991 [Report] >>96759005
>>96757104
he wrote some good books
I like bob
Anonymous No.96758995 [Report] >>96764701 >>96766203
>>96758980
I think nowaday you're supposed to say North African Arab Penis, not Moorcock
Anonymous No.96758996 [Report]
>>96757774
>are just racist, isolationist assholes that practice murder as solving political problems
...b-based?
Anonymous No.96759005 [Report] >>96759015 >>96797092
>>96758991
Maybe. I just haven't seen a single good book by him, personally.
I only read Dark Elf trilogy and however many Crystal Shard books there were.
(i was young and had bad taste)
Anonymous No.96759009 [Report]
>>96758977
objectively wrong
Anonymous No.96759015 [Report] >>96759034
>>96759005
homeland, the first one, ive generally considered my favorite
the hunter's blades trilogy are the purest imo, and the peak of the series
but if you didnt like the first six you probably wont like any of them, because you have bad tastes
Anonymous No.96759034 [Report] >>96759060
>>96759015
Childish mary sue writing full of edgy shit (Artemis Entreri is such a good assassin he killed my interest in Forgotten Realms for many years, by sheer dumb edginess).

A person should outgrow Salvatore, Moor Cock, and Robert Jordan by the age of 14-15 and recognize them for the dumb childish crap they are.
Anonymous No.96759060 [Report] >>96759128 >>96765495 >>96765635
>>96759034
theres really nothing better
all "mature" stuff is just edgewank and degeneracy
at least in the fantasy genre; ive read some good sci-fi but even the good ones are boring in comparison
Anonymous No.96759128 [Report] >>96759174
>>96759060
Quite the contrary. Nihilistic crap like Moor Cock is worthless edgewank.
There's plenty of good fantasy, such as Andre Norton, Barbara Hambley, Tad Williams, or (early) Ursula Leguin, that is actually awesome without degeneracy or edginess.
Anonymous No.96759174 [Report]
>>96759128
never heard of them, I'll take a peek
Anonymous No.96759228 [Report] >>96761419
>>96749370 (OP)
Mine does. They're still sexy, still evil, but they don't require deus ex machina to have a functional society. Built for the ACKS system, but there's a guideline on how to convert them to your OSR system of choice.

https://files.catbox.moe/xsolyj.pdf

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/516466/twisted-shadows-compendium-of-the-dark-elves

You can get it for free from the catbox link, but I'd appreciate it if you got it from DTRPG, even if you don't want to pay me money, because that drives up my metrics. I think there's also a Trove version.
Anonymous No.96759604 [Report] >>96759952 >>96772799
Actually DARK Elf, not y'all's metaphorical bullshit
Anonymous No.96759952 [Report]
>>96759604
As in "its a dark day for the elfkind when a brown elf is found outside degenrate asian cartoons"?
Anonymous No.96760299 [Report] >>96760326 >>96760736
>>96749370 (OP)
>Called dark elves
>Actually pale as fuck
What did they mean by this?
Anonymous No.96760326 [Report]
>>96760299
Because proper elves are blonde.
Anonymous No.96760736 [Report] >>96761229
>>96760299
Because "dark" was never about visuals, but about their culture, their psyche, their soul.
Anonymous No.96761229 [Report] >>96761339
>>96760736
Maybe Elric was just an albino and the rest of his buddies are dark like sub-Saharan Africans.
Anonymous No.96761339 [Report]
>>96761229
Dark elf is not a skin color.
Calm down with the pornbrainery.
Anonymous No.96761419 [Report]
>>96759228
based dark elf PDF poster!
Anonymous No.96761436 [Report]
>>96757756
thank you, lack of any refutation just goes to show how superior she is.
Anonymous No.96761443 [Report]
dark elves make everything better
Anonymous No.96761458 [Report]
Anonymous No.96761465 [Report]
Anonymous No.96761474 [Report]
Anonymous No.96762017 [Report]
Anonymous No.96764583 [Report]
Anonymous No.96764640 [Report] >>96764662 >>96764684
>>96749370 (OP)
"Dark elves" in various franchises are entirely different, and have nothing in common apart from name.

It is like comparing beef wellington to cheesecake and McDonald's hamburger - sure they are roughly the same category, but they have nothing in common.
Anonymous No.96764662 [Report] >>96764675
>>96764640
>tasty and healthy
>tasty but unhealthy
>gross and unhealthy
I dunno, your examples can be compared pretty handily. In fact, I'd say as far as notoriously fallacious food comparisons go, the examples you chose best fit an objection discussion of something.
Anonymous No.96764675 [Report]
>>96764662
All listed meals are for different occasions. It doesn't make sense to compare festive food, desert and fast food.
Different categories. IMO.
Anonymous No.96764684 [Report]
>>96764640
Here, buddy, you forgot this, but I gotcha!
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ [ picrelated ]
Anonymous No.96764701 [Report] >>96766203
>>96758995
LOL. Thanks for the laugh
Anonymous No.96764722 [Report] >>96765342 >>96765544 >>96779230
>>96749388
Will admit D&D did basically make the BDSM Femdom Sadist Dark Elves. However, the term dark elves have been done before D&D. That's like saying Dwarfs and Elves were made by Tolkien. He only made Orcs. Though to be fair that was kind of just a different name for goblins at time if I remember. Not a different race
Anonymous No.96764931 [Report] >>96765338
>>96749370 (OP)
These drow have too many clothes on.
Anonymous No.96764966 [Report] >>96765030 >>96765455
>>96757873
The main character is a privileged drow Stacey who can't understand why anything she does is wrong, is generally a bitch to anybody who doesn't like her (mysteriously other female characters who just don't GET her), and the first time she goes to the surface she promptly starts dancing naked before going off, finding a human, and jumping on his dick.
Anonymous No.96765030 [Report] >>96765049
>>96764966
/tg/ only cares about the last part and will based purely on this call it a masterpiece.
Anonymous No.96765049 [Report]
>>96765030
And there's nothing wrong with that.
Anonymous No.96765099 [Report]
>/tg/ loves feminism when it makes elves look bad
Anonymous No.96765134 [Report] >>96765164 >>96765685 >>96815548
Okay, riddle me this.
Why vast majority of Dark Elves use lizards as livestock?
Drow use some sort of lizard as mounts and pack animals, IIRC.
Warhammer Dark Elves ride Cold Ones.
Dunmer have gaur and argonians as beasts of burden.
Anonymous No.96765164 [Report] >>96765183
>>96765134
A lot of dark elf stuff will make sense once you realize that they are supposed to be very anti-high elf. The opposite, in design, culture, style, tone.
High Elves use horses, griffins, pegasi and other "noble" and more traditional fantasy steeds. Dark elves use monsters like lizards, spiders, manticores, generally more exotic, weird and ugly creatures.
It probably also helps that dark elves are usually put in more exotic, hostile and weird environments with a strange flora and fauna.
Anonymous No.96765183 [Report]
>>96765164
I guess this is more of a meta-answer. But consider this: in many settings, dark elves were often defeated by the good guy elves, and pushed out of traditional elf realms. So they have to leave to somewhere that doesn't have any good guy elves: the hostile, strange places of their respective fantasy settings. With strange creatures to tame and use as mounts and pack animals.
Dunmer are the weird ones again, they voluntarily left and found themselves a hostile shithole to endure for religious reasons.
Anonymous No.96765197 [Report]
>>96751418
She humanizes a villain character and ultimately turns him away from it. You are perfectly allowed to cite a character's relationship with another character to show why they are a good character.
Anonymous No.96765338 [Report]
>>96764931
They dressed up for the family photo.
Anonymous No.96765342 [Report] >>96765374
>>96764722
Goblin meant a kind of fairy before Tolkien though. Not really identifiable with orcs.
Anonymous No.96765374 [Report] >>96765394
>>96765342
Yes, and fairies were catch-all for all kinds of mythical beings, many of them monstrous. Like orcs.
Anonymous No.96765378 [Report]
>>96749370 (OP)
Morrowind. I took the Dunmer concept as presented in TES III and have used that as my Dark Elves (with some tweaks) ever since. Just an incredibly cool, unique race and style (ruined by Oblivion and Skyrim).
Anonymous No.96765394 [Report]
>>96765374
Yeah, but no, not really. Goblins were a kind of spiritual being and not even necessarily malicious.
Anonymous No.96765455 [Report]
>>96764966
Sounds like a typical drow
Anonymous No.96765495 [Report]
>>96759060
I liked Bakker, but Second Apocalypse is so grim that nobody can actually read it.
Anonymous No.96765544 [Report]
>>96764722
It's all based on old German Mythology
Anonymous No.96765635 [Report] >>96765649 >>96766195
>>96759060
>all "mature" stuff is just edgewank and degeneracy
Go looking for actually mature things then.
The best spot check I find is 'Has the protagonist actually got responsibility for someone/something, including the parts of it they don't like.'
Black Chronicles gives a perfect example of the difference.
Croaker is a mature protagonist, he takes responsibility for an entire group of people, their lives and liveylhoods in the face of navigating a rather dangerous existence, there are times he does things he isn't personally happy with in order to look after them.
Raven meanwhile is a tosser who only gives a shit about Darling and fuck everyone else, fuck things he doesn't like doing too, fuck his parents, ect.

Another good check is 'Does the character acknowledge their own flaws rather than being informed of them by others and merrily ignoring them'

You could hand Elric a piece of sandpaper and he'd scrape his balls clean off while whining about how it hurts and woe is him the brutality that fate has set upon him, but if you asked him to put down the sandpaper you'd get a blank look.
Anonymous No.96765649 [Report] >>96765677 >>96765903
>>96765635
>characters having flaws
Lol, what is this, school writing club
Nonsense
A good main character has no flaws. He has unique eye color, is way more moral than anyone else, has all talents, but chooses to pursue just one, and he is immediately the best of the best in it, beating even old masters while young, and he has a pet panther, and he's a misunderstood mistrusted exile who save everyone
Get you stupid "flaws" nonsense out of here.
Anonymous No.96765677 [Report]
>>96765649
Oh you.
Another great measure is 'Could/Would anyone ever insult/question the merit of the Protagonist to their face and not immediately be proven wrong (or right)'

It doesn't have to happen in the story, but can you visualize it happening without the character overreacting/the person doing it turning out to be evil/stoopid or the author basically stepping into frame and putting down a chance for the character to be refuted (Or worse, stepping in to go 'See, our protagonist is a total cocksucker! Isn't it great :D')

If so it's a more mature story than most, in fantasy or out of it.
Anonymous No.96765685 [Report] >>96765873
>>96765134
because lizards are cool
Anonymous No.96765873 [Report]
>>96765685
As endothermic organisms, naturally
Anonymous No.96765903 [Report] >>96766011
>>96765649
Damn what's your deviantart username?
Anonymous No.96766011 [Report]
>>96765903
@RASalvatore
Anonymous No.96766195 [Report]
>>96765635
drizzt has responsibility for his frens and whatever innocent people might be in danger
Anonymous No.96766203 [Report]
>>96758995
>>96764701
>North African Arab Penis
Don't you mean Moopcock
Anonymous No.96766545 [Report] >>96766569 >>96766722
>>96749370 (OP)
>Have Drow faction in my DnD homebrew
>Want them somewhat familiar to new players yet being different
Is this even possible? My setting is an Age of Sail world where all the elemental and other planes of existence are forced into the Material Plane and the Drow ended up in a caldera out at sea where they hastily had their spiders shit out a ton of webbing to create a canopy of webs that block out the sun. Lolth has gone silent and they aren't sure what to do now.
Anonymous No.96766569 [Report] >>96766637 >>96794075
>>96766545
The Lolth-autism is already an unfortunate big part of the D&D-like drow idea. Makes these drow about finding their own meaning and place in this world without this goddess, including internal strife and warring factions with different viewpoints. Some may want to uphold the matriarchy, while others realize that the women are far less powerful without the bitch backing them up. Some may even be not outright evil and more willing to cooperate with other races.
Anonymous No.96766637 [Report]
>>96766569
I think diplomacy and trade are going to be interesting; previously they could raid the material plane nations and scamper back to the Underdark knowing they were safe; now they are only a mere boat ride distance from their wary neighbors.
Anonymous No.96766722 [Report]
>>96766545
Naturally, they should make magical submarines. Trade underground for underwater, and keep raiding the surface.

Maybe instead of Lolth they discover a kraken or whatever, priesthood claim that's Lolth avatar, and they worship that, pretending Lolth is still behind them.
Anonymous No.96772363 [Report]
I fucking love grey/black/blue elf women with white hair!
Anonymous No.96772519 [Report]
>silver is no longer mainstream in medicine or photography
>no chance to find a sane GF with argyria
Sad
Anonymous No.96772540 [Report]
Anonymous No.96772743 [Report]
>>96751632
Sadly for your cognitive dissonant brain it is d&d relevant and thread relevant, more than 5.5e.
Anonymous No.96772799 [Report]
>>96759604
>digga
Anonymous No.96772882 [Report] >>96772889 >>96776956 >>96811933
>>96749445
I heard the theory that they were an ancient version of dwarf and not elves.
Anonymous No.96772889 [Report]
>>96772882
There wasn't much distinction back then.
Anonymous No.96776956 [Report] >>96780083
>>96772882
Norse dark Elves were Dwarves. That's why the Dwarves live in Svartalfheim (dark Elf home). Tolkien separated his dark Elves (Elves who never saw the light of the trees) from Dwarves. Modern fantasy followed suit.
Anonymous No.96777133 [Report] >>96780188
>>96757763
You mention the series but only the first novel is focused on Menzo or Ellistrae. The sequel is a pirate adventure which has an enjoyable drow villainess and the third book is an unsatisfactory conclusion to the story set up in the sequel. I still recommend the first two books but if you are looking for something that's entirely focused on drow society that series will not fit the bill
Anonymous No.96777986 [Report] >>96779819 >>96815700 >>96839013
Why are dark elves always heavily femdom coded?
Anonymous No.96778493 [Report]
>>96749370 (OP)
Anonymous No.96778534 [Report]
>>96749388
Anonymous No.96779055 [Report]
>>96749370 (OP)
Anonymous No.96779230 [Report] >>96780047
>>96764722
>That's like saying Dwarfs and Elves were made by Tolkien. He only made Orcs.
Naeh he made dwarves and elves as well in any real sense and his creations are what all fantasy base their elves and dwarves on, not the norse sagas.
Anonymous No.96779272 [Report]
>>96749370 (OP)
Dunmer>Eldakkar>Druchi>Drow(Gygax)>Blood Elf(Warcraft)>Drow(Early Greenwood x Salvatore)>Drow(Modern)


Platonic ideal of dark elf for me is fair skin and leaning to dark hair, like Druchi, I think the culture is too over the top though.
I think it's interesting that Greenwood was actually gonna go with human like fair skin for his forgotten realms dark elves, so they could blend in with moon elves and infiltrate them, but ended up making just a version of Drow to conform to Gygax's d&d conventions.
Anonymous No.96779819 [Report]
>>96777986
dark elves are heavily instant loss coded
Anonymous No.96780047 [Report] >>96784341
>>96779230
Dunsany codified elves as we know it, that Tolkien used.
Later nordic works, such as Nibelungenlied codified dwarfs as distinctive race of midget craftsmen who covet gold
Read more.
Anonymous No.96780083 [Report] >>96825078
>>96776956
No, Dwarves and Dark Elves were two different races even in Norse myth. The Dark elves were purged from Alfheim to Scartalfheim and lived and fought with the Dwarves. However Dwarves and Dark Elves weren't talked too much and often merged together by many myths. We see this with many other older fairy tales mixed many faes together from Brownies, Elves, Gnomes, etc in their stories.
Anonymous No.96780188 [Report] >>96780718 >>96780749 >>96781159 >>96806695
>>96757763
>>96777133
>First book is by THE FR elf writer.
>Every piece of good FR elf lore was either written by her or consulted through her
>Greenwood himself has said multiple times her ideas for elves blow his out of the water and made them far more of a nuanced race
>Unfortunately Bob's take on Drow got more popular
>Unfortunately most people just want their elfs to be pretty humans, no one wants to consider how they function ad a society
>She comes back to write books!
>First book is great even tackles some of the stupid shit Bob has come up with to make it more reasonable
>Second book isn't as focused on an elven culture, but still nice
>Then wotc got involved and said "all lore must conform to what we're setting up for 4e"
Honestly, kind of sad.
Anonymous No.96780199 [Report]
>>96749992
What a clown.
Anonymous No.96780718 [Report]
>>96780188
To be honest, FR is not a setting that deserves or needs nuance. Its not LotR or TSoIaF. Its a capeshit comic book of fantasy universes. Nuance is no more fitting in FR than it is in a Marvel movie
Anonymous No.96780749 [Report]
>>96780188
>elf is female and sex with human
>good
Nah.
Anonymous No.96780834 [Report]
isnt dark elves a racist name? they should be called melinated elves
Anonymous No.96781142 [Report]
>>96757763
>Eilistraee-focused
Thanks, will skip.
Anonymous No.96781159 [Report] >>96794075
>>96780188
>Unfortunately Bob's take on Drow got more popular
>Unfortunately most people just want their elfs to be pretty humans, no one wants to consider how they function ad a society
Dark Elf trilogy is widely considered among the much better Salvatore books precisely because they looked into the functions of drow society, what the fuck are you smoking.
Anonymous No.96781587 [Report]
>>96749370 (OP)
Dunmer my favourite dark elves
Anonymous No.96782967 [Report]
>>96749370 (OP)
don't know if they count but the bloodsails (or more generally the whole line of Vol+allies) from ebberon so dnd 3.5, id guess?
Anonymous No.96784341 [Report]
>>96780047
No he didn't, it's Tolkien everyone after him based their elves on.
Also, you're making a point of using the unconventional spelling of plural for dwarf, which betrays your midwittery, every work that uses dwarves instead of dwarfs, quite literally takes notes from Tolkien. Doesn't matter how defiant you are by personally sticking to dwarfs, you're still wrong.
Get a degree.
Anonymous No.96790930 [Report] >>96790969 >>96791120
How would you incorporate both drow-style dark elves and anime-style dark elves into a setting?
Anonymous No.96790946 [Report]
WHAT A GLORIOUS BUMP FROM PAGE 10
Anonymous No.96790969 [Report]
>>96790930
"Anime-style dark elves" are not a thing, it's not a specific race. Sometimes they aren't even evil, sometimes dark elf is just a skin color, sometimes they look like regular elves but they are evil. There is no universal anime dark elf.
Anonymous No.96791120 [Report]
>>96790930
based page 10 poster!
The obvious answer is that grey dark elf and a brown dark elf both get isekaied from their respective worlds to Earth, more specifically into the home of our nondescript-but-still-relatable bachelor protagonist!
Anonymous No.96793769 [Report] >>96794657
>>96749370 (OP)
The rapeable kind.
Anonymous No.96794075 [Report]
>>96749370 (OP)
idk but that's theone of the best drow illustrations i've ever seen god damn fucking love it.

also i like what Veins of the Earth did with dark elves with the Aelf-Adal

>>96766569
>while others realize that the women are far less powerful without the bitch backing them up.

turn the male drows into south koreans.

>>96781159
The Dark Elf Trilogy is funny as fuck for me because it's what i imagine how the US functions as a non-american based solely on the news and what i read here and twitter. at least a big part. the other part is just groups of male drows having a secret newsletter about what to attach to the point of their crossbow bolts
Anonymous No.96794384 [Report] >>96811911
It's this >>96751077 and this >>96752363
But I'm also partial to Night Elves c. Warcraft III
Anonymous No.96794502 [Report]
>>96751720
Yes but all of that is believable and realistic and has historical parallels, whereas Drow are just cartoon villains.
Anonymous No.96794657 [Report] >>96794707
>>96793769
But anon, that elf rapes you.
Anonymous No.96794664 [Report]
Anonymous No.96794707 [Report] >>96796103 >>96796309
>>96794657
According to some notable swedish femininist, even when a woman rapes a man, in truth its still the man raping the woman, due to generations of patriarchy affecting what sex is. All sex, no matter how consenting the woman is, is rape of woman by man.
Even lesbians having sex with each other is a form of rape by patriarchy in general, IIRC.
Anonymous No.96794832 [Report] >>96795064
>>96751393
Twenty Five years anon. Thunder Empress Arshes Nei is up there with Piro and is only two years younger.
Anonymous No.96794874 [Report]
>>96749370 (OP)
I always liked Eberron dark elves. The scorpion aesthetic is cooler than spiders.
Anonymous No.96795064 [Report]
>>96794832
Nei is arguably just one of the first homages to Pirotess except Dark Schneider gets to daughter-wife her.
Anonymous No.96796103 [Report]
>>96794707
All leftist ideology is insane mental gymnastics to explain why their sociopathic ideas are actually justified
Anonymous No.96796309 [Report]
>>96794707
No anon, you misunderstand. That elf has a cock.
Anonymous No.96797092 [Report]
>>96759005
lol no dude, you were just young, those books are for kids, and kids (like you and me) loved them.
Anonymous No.96797171 [Report] >>96797295 >>96806671 >>96811938
Anonymous No.96797232 [Report]
Anonymous No.96797295 [Report] >>96811898
>>96797171
I've never seen dark elves take inspiration from Vietnam, Cambodia, Indonesia, Thailand etc
Anonymous No.96797342 [Report]
Anonymous No.96803554 [Report]
>>96749388
Inventing something isn't the same as doing it the best. Revolvers predate Samuel Colt by centuries, but he was the first to make one that was practical to make and use.
Anonymous No.96806671 [Report] >>96806741
>>96797171
>Tolkien
Did mf call Noldor dark?
Because Eol the Dark Elf wasn't evil, he was just an asshole, that's different
Anonymous No.96806695 [Report]
>>96780188
>Get a woman to write elves
>It's a failure
Like pottery
Anonymous No.96806741 [Report]
>>96806671
Noldor are clearly both High Elves (Fingolfin branch) and Dark Elves (Feanor branch).
Anonymous No.96807790 [Report] >>96811933
>>96749445
The moriquendi really have nothing to do with any contemporary notion of dark elves.

Legolas is a dark elf, technically.
Anonymous No.96811898 [Report] >>96811950
>>96797295
That's just turbofaggot weeb cope that they don't want to admit that brown girls in their animes aren't some sort of Asian.
Almost all dark elves in anime are based or inspired by Pirotess, who herself was based on this depiction of Drow from Queen of the Spiders.
Anonymous No.96811911 [Report] >>96820958
>>96794384
As much as I enjoyed the grape flavored amazon elves from WC3, I don't recall anything particularly "dark" about them. Except that turbo edgelord, Illidindu Nuffin.
Anonymous No.96811933 [Report] >>96815012
>>96772882
i don't know how that theory is true because Tolkien was inspired by icelandic elves which are described as tall and beautiful and not dwarf like.
>>96807790
In LotR lore theres "dark elves" working for sauron/morgoth.
basically evil elves
Anonymous No.96811938 [Report]
>>96797171
>muh celtic!
kek
Anonymous No.96811950 [Report]
>>96811898
I've seen black girls who look like the spider queen, I've seen white girls with tans who look like the spider queen.
Anonymous No.96812125 [Report]
>>96751153
Its easier to draw and makes the faces more readable.
Anonymous No.96812183 [Report] >>96812463 >>96830092
>ywn have Dark Elf gf
Its a horrible fate and a bleak hopeless world.
Anonymous No.96812220 [Report] >>96812957
>>96758948
The other day i did some dungeon i had never encountered in my years of skyriming... its a girl and her argonian bodyguard going into a grave to retreive some legendary artifact, forgot the name but after defeating a giant draugr the argonian betrays us both and from a note he had, he was blackmailed by the girls father to protect her or he'll reveal why the argonian was kicked outta his homeland. Theres also that cunt in solitude that wants me to steam from some ship only to betray me later
Anonymous No.96812227 [Report] >>96812876 >>96815021
Does anyone know where this dark elf is from?
Anonymous No.96812463 [Report] >>96826642 >>96830092
>>96812183
Nice horns, goonbrain, and therefore not a dark elf.
Anonymous No.96812876 [Report]
>>96812227
Looks like lineage to me
Anonymous No.96812957 [Report]
>>96812220
yep, he's the one specific exception I can think of
Anonymous No.96815012 [Report] >>96820986
>>96811933
>In LotR lore theres "dark elves" working for sauron/morgoth.
>basically evil elves
No, there are not. Elves in LotR or Simarillion never worked with Sauron or Morgoth.
Let me guess, your lore knowledge is from Rings of Power?
Anonymous No.96815021 [Report]
>>96812227
Pathfinder or Lineage, or some other tasteless derivative work
Anonymous No.96815371 [Report] >>96815477 >>96815484
>>96751077
>>Dunmer aren't sluts.
>he doesn't know
Anonymous No.96815477 [Report]
>>96815371
Great reading comprehension, faggot.
Anonymous No.96815484 [Report]
>>96815371
Things I'd do to Barenziah...
Anonymous No.96815548 [Report]
>>96765134
Reptiles are (or used to be) associated with evil
Anonymous No.96815700 [Report]
>>96777986
Because overt sexuality (and unconventional sexuality in particular) have historically been considered immoral. But I think the femdom part in particular is because of the Drow being matriarchal.
Anonymous No.96816242 [Report]
>>96757763
I'm trying to go through it and I find it kind of boring
Like I'm at chapter ten and I feel like not only is Liriel unlikeable I can't find anything which draws me to her and a lot is too focused on the rashemen human
I thought it was interesting to get a bit of Vhaeraun followers, but I learned from was of the spider Queen that those guys don't last long

At least Drizzt only had one class

Also Liriel is besides Yvonnel jr. The second daughter of Gromph (he gives a single fuck about), but funny enough Liriel gets never mentioned outside her own series
>It she is or was I've got no recollection of her
Anonymous No.96818543 [Report] >>96820674
>all elves, even dark, have melodic elf-sounding names
>except one mf named Gromph
>literally the quintessential orc name
For fuck's sake. I hope Salvatore steps on a lego barefoot or something.
Anonymous No.96818574 [Report]
>>96758967
These guys were the best thing of that movie
Anonymous No.96820674 [Report] >>96820867 >>96824821
>>96818543
Gromph is just a nickname. His full Evlish name is Gromphalamew.
Anonymous No.96820867 [Report]
>>96820674
>elvish
drow, they speak drow! It's a completely different language!

also update about Dahlia for anyone is interested and big spoilers for anyone who hasn't read the newest book yet
ding dong the witch is dead
guess I'll be reading the book after all
Anonymous No.96820958 [Report] >>96821015
>>96811911
They were basically "nature" elves rather than "evil" elves.
Anonymous No.96820986 [Report]
>>96815012
its literally on the wiki linked you fucking retard
Anonymous No.96821015 [Report] >>96821019
>>96820958
Night elves were always wood elves with a moon gimmick.
Anonymous No.96821019 [Report]
>>96821015
Anonymous No.96821054 [Report] >>96821058 >>96824470
>>96749370 (OP)
How dark?
Anonymous No.96821058 [Report] >>96824470 >>96824821
>>96821054
Not a single elf is in that pic.
Anonymous No.96821076 [Report]
Anonymous No.96821081 [Report] >>96821221 >>96823333
>200+ replies
>not one mention of Spire: The City Must Fall
/tg/...
Anonymous No.96821221 [Report]
>>96821081
>game
Gay.
Anonymous No.96821574 [Report]
I liked the Schattenalfen from old Mystara
Anonymous No.96821887 [Report] >>96821960
>>96749370 (OP)
None.
I think it's just a watered down version of the mythological notion of malign and benevolent natural powers, which sometimes overlap.

Elves are at their worst when they are -just- pointy-eared long-lived snobs.

Elves are at their best when they are moved further towards the fey end of the spectrum.

We have the notions of fairies being divided into the Seelie and the Unseelie, or the summer and winter courts, which I like far better.

These being more or less political and tribal factions within "Otherworld Society", one of which is ambiguous towards mortals, and the other of which is overtly hostile.

The "unseelie Fairies" are the closest thing to "Dark Elves" that I feel any affinity or excitement for.

Give me Knockers and Red-caps and red riders of Donn.
Give me Dullahan and Bean Nighe and the people under the mounds.

Spiders, matriarchy and fetish gear are so passé.
Anonymous No.96821960 [Report]
>>96821887
Based opinion.
Anonymous No.96823333 [Report]
>>96821081
does it have anything interesting to offer or is it just more fedora-tipping subversion?
Anonymous No.96824470 [Report]
>>96821058
>>96821054
Have the (space) elf version.
Anonymous No.96824581 [Report]
It's all so tiresome.
Anonymous No.96824821 [Report] >>96824877
>>96821058
The last one seems to be... it's a nice reference for them anyway

>>96820674
Oh u
Anonymous No.96824877 [Report] >>96824925
>>96824821
>The last one seems to be
Nah, but she gets tagged as one on pornsites, which is why idiots that never read her VN post her.
This is her.
Anonymous No.96824925 [Report] >>96825033
>>96824877
VNs are the most dogshit medium ever invented.
Anonymous No.96825033 [Report]
>>96824925
That doesn't really change anything of what I said.
Anonymous No.96825078 [Report]
>>96780083
>No, Dwarves and Dark Elves were two different races even in Norse myth.

Wrong.

>Since the Prose Edda describes the dökkálfar as being subterranean dwellers, they may be dwarfs under another name, in the opinion of a number of scholars such as John Lindow.[11][12]

>Svartálfaheimr ("world of black-elves") appears in the Prose Edda twice,[3][7] in each case as the place where certain dwarfs can be found to be living:[8] In Gylfaginning 33, the "world of black-elves" is where the dwarfs are sought by the gods to craft the fetter Gleipnir to bind the wolf Fenrir.[9] And in Skáldskaparmál, 39, the "world of black-elves" is where Loki encounters the dwarf Andvari.[10]
Anonymous No.96826642 [Report] >>96828954
>>96812463
Better double check your 'facts'.
Anonymous No.96828954 [Report] >>96830196
>>96826642
>draw a tiefling
>call it an elf
also the main 'elf' comes from a subgroup which only lives the same lifespan as a human
they're very un-elf like
and the writing is bad
Anonymous No.96830039 [Report]
Well in MY setting elves are short, have beards, live in caves, and love beer, mining, and killing elves.
They are relevant, because I called them elves in my setting, so they count.
Anonymous No.96830092 [Report]
>>96812183
>>96812463
Drow/Dark Elves often worship demons and other fiends, it is not at all unreasonable to think they could have Tiefling children.
Anonymous No.96830108 [Report]
Anonymous No.96830196 [Report] >>96833321
>>96828954
>... the writing is bad
Yeah, well, ok.
But you only get to say that like 3 more times. ish.
And the new stuff is probably gonna be worse anyway.
Anonymous No.96830209 [Report]
Anonymous No.96833321 [Report] >>96836423
>>96830196
god i hate the dragon prince so much, SUCH a waste of potential.
Anonymous No.96836423 [Report]
>>96833321
That show scream of woke fantasy bs from the start. Didn't even bother with that and was glad when I heard it was falling apart and shit.
Anonymous No.96836705 [Report]
>>96749370 (OP)

The ones from critically acclaimed rpg Might and Magic VIII. Why?
> most useful race in game.
> ex-edge-lords that grew up from being edgy.
> businessmen now, established merchant guild with continental wide influence, that in essence is a mega-corp.
> still have no issues with blackmail or hexing people if they are bad trade partners.
> saved the world once because it's destruction would be bad for business.
> I'm biased since it's one of my favorite games.
Anonymous No.96837659 [Report]
>>96749388
>D&D invented the concept of Dokkalfar and Dark Numenorians and Melnibonéans.
You're a fucking retarded faggot, anon.
Anonymous No.96838970 [Report]
>>96750471
>practicing slavery and openly having assassin's guilds
to be fair after a week of living in Morrowind you'll immediately understand the motivations for both
Anonymous No.96838997 [Report]
>>96751656
>women with unnatural skin colours are fucking hot
it's your lingering lizardbrain detecting exotic and novel genes and demanding you immediately breed them.
this is probably also why fucking neanderthals and denisovans was so common even modern humans share a small amount of DNA with them
Anonymous No.96839013 [Report] >>96839575
>>96777986
because D&D Dark Elves are chaotic evil spider-worshippers, and spiders are femdom coded because the females are larger and aggressive than the males, and most other versions of dark elves are in some way influenced or directly inspired by D&D
this is extra funny since D&D drow aren't actually larger than regular elves, who are already very short and frail compared to humans, so all the dommy mommy drow women are like five feet tall
Anonymous No.96839575 [Report]
>>96839013
Based as fuck.