Thread 96751688

If he was real and played Magic (the card game in the manga started as a Magic parody after all) what would his opinion on the current state of the game be?

Yu-gi-oh exists in a world where there were genuinely broken cards printed in insanely limited quantities, including single printings, such as several cards in Pegasus's deck or the God Cards. It's also a world where people were willing to kill each other over this game, with multi-billion dollar businesses living and dying on the outcome of matches. And, that's before we even talk about it being a genuinely magic game that controlled the fate of the world.

Kaiba spent a genuine fortune on his 3 Blue Eyes, 3 of the 4 that existed in the entire world. He spent several hundreds of thousands of dollars on them, and even managed to secure the rights to use their image in 95% of his personal branding and products, and even theme park. He's shown on multiple occasions that he's willing to kill/die over the outcome of a match, and even had his own soul stolen from him in a game against a man who had absurdly broken cards that he had the only copies of.

He would look at the current state of Magic as being quaint and cute.
A genuine children's game.

>>96751688 (OP)
"Screw the rules, I have money!" would be his opinion.

>>96751870
Most of what you're saying is anime canon which doesn't matter. In the manga it's a Magic the Gathering parody (magic and wizards), Blue-Eyes being rare is riffing on the reserve list and Bandit Keith was Takahashi making fun of professional Magic players (he literally becomes a suicidal drug addict cause he loses to a child). The Toon cards are just vanity cards for Pegasus, the God cards were only printed once because spooky occult shit started happening when they printed them. In the manga the card game is just another card game, Yugi kinda moves on from it around Dark Side of Dimensions (manga canon) to focus on being a game designer while Kaiba keeps being autistic about it.

>>96751688 (OP)
>Pegasus, we need crossover cards with Imagine Dragons
>Pegasus, we need crossover cards with How to Train Your Dragon
>Pegasus, we need crossover cards with Eragon, the book not the awful movie
>Pegasus, we need crossover cards with Dragon's Dogma
All of this just to keep his cute dragon beatdown deck strong.

>>96751984
Not sure how to break this to you but Pegasus is dead.

>>96752070
You'd also would do that after Kaiba asks you for another dragon crossover.

>>96751688 (OP)
I would be happy because he would be funding more Dragon cards, and I love dragons

What card would he become autistic about like Blue Eyes?

>>96752877
Nicol Bolas

>>96752877
Still Blue Eyes but now it's a Magic card. Kaiba is destined to find his dragon waifu. You could make him obsessed with 5e, and Blue Eyes would still find him

>>96751943
Sure it does. It's the vastly more popular product that created a massive multimedia franchise thay continues to this day. It's the first thing most people think of when you bring up YGO. Just because things were different in the manga does not mean the anime is irrelevant.

>>96753634
The OCG predates the Duel Monsters anime. Whenever they reference the first series in modern media they always refer to manga-canon and not anime canon. Dark Side of Dimensions was explicitly set in the manga-canon. The manga is what was popular in Japan (which is the only place that matters).

>>96753634
You're talking to someone that's insane.

>>96753571
In that case his waifu would have been BLACKED at some point in the last ten years. He'd be desperately hoping the story never circles back to whatever plane she's from/on.

>>96755810
My man has egyptian genes. I'm fairly sure he would be fine with exotic chocolate Blue-Eyes

>>96751688 (OP)
Kaiba would be a B/U Counterspell Control Deck.
Yugi would be W/U/G/R with a focus on buffing monsters.
Joey would be W/G probably pulling some weird cat or elf shit.

>>96752877
I would say the card blue eyes was based on, but it's not like Chromium ever really took off the same way

>>96751688 (OP)
>opinion on the current state of the game be?
None, he comes from a business background, broken unfair disparity is as much of a challenge as playing through backrow. Ge doesn't care about the meta, people who complain instead of adapting are scrubs.

>>96751870
>Kaiba spent a genuine fortune on his 3 Blue Eyes, 3 of the 4 that existed in the entire world. He spent several hundreds of thousands of dollars on them, and even managed to secure the rights to use their image in 95% of his personal branding and products, and even theme park
In the Manga he also quite literally spilled blood for them.

>>96756707
I know the answer is "it's anime, shut up" but how are there only 4 blue eyes, nevermind only one of each god card
like ok yeah I get they're rare cards but... that's literally just not how printing presses work. and especially with all the ancient egypt shit surrounding the god cards I have to assume the logical answer of "they made a whole sheet and trashed the extra copies" doesn't apply here

>>96756764
Well the God Cards specifically have divine intervention going for them. The literal Egypian Gods only allow one card each to exist and they literally kill people who use copies.

But anyway, the cards in the original manga and anime were generally portrayed as much rarer than irl trading cards, like it was an expensive hobby to get into and anything but the weak cards is made in very low amounts.
Though worht noting that cards aren't just paper, but have actual microchips in them, which are read by the duel disks later to project the holograms and know what the cards do.

>>96756787
>Though worht noting that cards aren't just paper, but have actual microchips in them,
we've had cards with NFC chips in them since at least the mid 2000s, so it's not like that aspect was out of the realm of possibility even in its time. Sure it'd drive the price up but not to some nigh-insurmountable level.

>>96756764
Weren't the Egyptian God cards hand-crafted by Pegasus himself, or was that an anime-only thing?

>>96756764
This >>96756787 applies, but also, the card company making them was run by a rich weird aristocrat coomer, burning through money to replace his deceased waifu with .png files, while possessed by a demonic relic made from ritually sacrificed threemilenial souls of the damned. His entire business model was "paint these weird demonic figures that appear to me after I replaced my eye with egypt not!vecna's, reflecting what they represented in the shadow games of pharaohs 3000 years ago, so their profane power can bring me back my girl", that's the power of autists with money from the start.
Then, after he gets gored out and humiliated by japanese teens, the company moves to the hands of the even bigger autist, Kaiba, the greatest Ahab that ever lived, that makes it so the game never prints more Blue Eyes, giving him exclusive access to a (debatably) tier 0 monster for the sole reason of "I own the company" (not at all unrealistic for rich autists since we currently have Cristiano Ronaldo and Salvatore Ganacci in Fatal Fury), and only prints 1 copy of each god card because he's being tsundere and atheistic to spite the brown pussy destiny so easily handed to him. so he needs to let them have their ritualistic crap in order for him to disprove with the power of science or some existential human-centric materialistic thing.
My "non-disproved" headcanon also includes that, since it was a MtG parody, there were probably also rare and low-printed alpha sets with broken cards before the game printed in larger numbers, and Kaiba can easily buy and mass destroy whatever he wants.
>>96756856
Now that you mention, I don't remember, but the power of autism and demonic rituals can bridge any gap in that.

>>96751688 (OP)
>what would his opinion on the current state of the game be?
Not enough blue eyes white dragons

>>96751688 (OP)
You have to remember that Kaiba is some kind of in-universe hyper genius. The series becoms about Duel Monsters because of his confrontation with Yugi, but he's also a genius at all games (even video games). In the original series manga, Yugi and Joey go to an arcade and look at some games where the leaderboards are linked nationally, and he basically has all of the high scores.

If Kaiba was a real world person playing Magic: the Gathering, he would probably be stomping everyone with high levels of analysis and somehow always having figured out the perfect sideboard. In every format, especially the very expensive ones. Hell, he might have programmed a machine that simulates a billion games just to test hypothetical matchups, and you know the data would be good because he can just look up the deck lists.

If he thought that the game was being run into the ground for short-term monetary gain when long-term value is right there (and also so he can maintain his ego about how good he is at this game specifically), he would probably buy Hasbro, make it a less shitty games and toys company, and then rip Magic from Wizards and make it its own subsidiary that he personally oversees.

>>96757053
>If he thought that the game was being run into the ground for short-term monetary gain when long-term value is right there (and also so he can maintain his ego about how good he is at this game specifically), he would probably buy Hasbro, make it a less shitty games and toys company, and then rip Magic from Wizards and make it its own subsidiary that he personally oversees.
We'll never live in the best timeline.

>>96756764
Only four of them are KNOWN to exist. I think the anime goes more explicit and says there were only four ever printed. Remember that Blue-Eyes and Exodias rarity was originally meant to be a riff on the reserved list from MtG. Remember that when the first Magic and Wizards chapter in the manga premiered standard was only a year old and the only eternal format was vintage with legacy still not being a thing until a year later. You have Yugis classmates talking about people in America selling their houses and stuff to buy rare cards to be competitive in that chapter so it’s pretty obvious that Takahashi was aware of how expensive magic could get with the reserve list cards. It’s exaggerated and a bit over the top sure but it’s taking inspiration from real life stuff. The god cards can only have one copy each because the aincent Egyptian religion is the one true religion in the YGO universe and the gods smite down Pegasus attempts at making more than one of each.

>>96756237
> evasion and rampage .... but no trample
sovl

>>96756787
>Though worht noting that cards aren't just paper, but have actual microchips in them, which are read by the duel disks later to project the holograms and know what the cards do.
I’m pretty sure that had to be an anime-only thing because as far as I remember that is never established in the manga. Kaiba invents the hologram technology because he’s inspired by the Shadow game Yugi pulls him into in his debut chapter where he uses dark Egyptian magic to make the monsters in the cards real. The hologram tech is just his way of trying to emulate Egyptian magic. Before that everyone just played it like a normal card game.

>>96757322
It's actually specifically from the Manga(mentioned the same chapter where he clarifies that he was inspired by the shadow game).
I am not even sure if the Anime even ever got around to mentioning it.

Also before you ask, no, its not clarified why the cards already had microchips for that purose in them.

>>96751688 (OP)
>If he was real and played Magic (the card game in the manga started as a Magic parody after all) what would his opinion on the current state of the game be?
He went to the afterlife while alive to duel Yami, dude would roast the shit out of Konami, somehow take over and then turn our world into his. And this is before finding aliens to duel.

>>96757455
I don’t think Konami owns Magic.

>>96756237
Blue-eyes comes from dnd. It's bahamut.

>>96757101
There is a chance. There are many nerds with money now.

>>96757421
it's honestly really interesting watching the progression of kaiba's hologram technology, from an entire dedicated room to something that could absolutely have been as sleek as a simple watch if it didn't need to also accommodate an entire deck and playing field on top of itself

>>96757509
>I don’t think Konami owns Magic
Kaiba would manipulate the market until Konami buys magic only to then buy konami

>>96756970
>Cristiano Ronaldo and Salvatore Ganacci in Fatal Fury
They what?

>>96757599
Sure, but those people aren't Seto Kaiba. Most rich people have ego-centric behaviors that make them think that they're a lot smarter than they are. Kaiba is an anime character with the actual intelligence to back up anything his ego wants. In last movie, he's basically developed thought-integrated solid holograms. This is built on hologram technology that he already personally innovated and developed.

Modern tech millionaires/billionaires want to be perceived like this, but they don't actually have that kind of intellect to do the science themselves. Hell, some of them don't even have the kind of intellect to do the business themselves after climbing up that high, and are constantly floundering around because they can afford to fail a bajillion times at things more expensive than most people will ever know.

>>96760236
>In last movie, he's basically developed thought-integrated solid holograms. This is built on hologram technology that he already personally innovated and developed.
He literally fakes a plane crash into the middle of a populated stadium that causes people to scream out in fear just so he could advertise the realism of his new duel disk holograms.

>>96760236
>In last movie, he's basically developed thought-integrated solid holograms.
Also developed a device which counteracts magic, then built a space elevator which can transport you to the Egyptian afterlife.
Later he held a contest for card designs and launched the winners into space where they evolved into aliens obsessed with cardgames or something

>>96757591
It's obvious once you see Five God Dragon

>>96753634
>product that created a massive multimedia franchise
Yugioh already had several video games before the anime, and TWO card games.

>>96763409
Technically, the space elevator doesn't send you to the Egyptian afterlife. The station at the top of the elevator has a pod that uses a magical artifact that's being bent with science that projects your consciousness to the afterlife.

Still, really fucking ballsy thing to do. And by the looks of it, he might be risking his mind doing it.

>>96751943
>Most of what you're saying is anime canon
What part of it is "anime canon"? All of that happened in the manga.

>>96751984
>Pegasus, we need crossover cards with Bad Dragon

Anyone remember that weird manga where alternate universe Kaiba got possessed by a card and fought Iron Man and Spider-Man?

fun fact, Kaiba is based on a real life magic: the gathering player that was really douchy to takashi while he was writing Yu-Gi-Oh.

some people speculate that that player was Kai budde and that is where the name kaiba comes from.

>>96763533
That sounds like it's probably bullshit. Also, Kai Budde was so young during the period before Yu-Gi-Oh released, but after Magic: the Gathering became a game, that he was competing in junior pro tours. Takahashi is also like, 15 years older than him.

>>96763476
That's not just "a weird manga," that's Secret Reverse. Kazuki Takahashi wrote that shit.

>>96763554
the part about it being Kai budde is very likely bullshit but kaiba bring based on a magic the gathering player is true.

>>96763533
Kai Budde would have been a young teen in the early 90s, what the fuck would he be doing in Japan interacting with a rookie mangaka?

>>96751984
>>96752070
Kaiba ends up taking over Pegasus company in the manga. So he just would make crossover cards. Even so, he only cares about one type of dragon over "dragons" in general.

>>96757783
Saudi prince bought SNK, puts his fave dj and fave soccer player on a fightan game.

>>96763533
Kaiba was based off the troupe of the snobby elite player of a game. Often someone rich who CAN spend all his time and money towards the hobby.

>>96764384
>Kaiba ends up taking over Pegasus company in the manga
He didn't, stop making shit up.

>>96756970
>>96765109
AWROOOOOOOOOO City of the Wolves mentioned outside of /neog/. TAKE THAT CAPKEKS AND TEKKEKS AND GUILTY KEKEARS we are so back TRUST ODA'S PLAN Joe player BOOOOOOOST Mr Big player boost we are so fucking back Wolf Pack

>>96751688 (OP)
Probably "Hide thread"

>>96765890
>TAKE THAT CAPKEKS AND TEKKEKS AND GUILTY KEKEARS
Kek, those 2 characters suck, but I still trust Mohammed over crapcom, bumco and arc.

>>96757672
Duel Disks are absolute kino and Im sad theyre actually kinda impractical.
This is the only way a fictional card game series can make sense in the long term instead of people standing around a table watching people sitting.

>>96763459
No, that's ABSOLUTELY a Kaiba thing.

>>96777042
It's maybe not as impractical as you think, though there are still problems. People made really shoddy prototypes a decade ago that prove that you can do wearable holography with a linked database and scanners. They could project images of the cards into 3D space.

Aside from "is the money really there?" the problem is actually bothering to build a system that includes a database with a metric fuckton of animations of the game's monsters and magical things. Which is to say "Yu-gi-oh! technology is not impossible, but implementing it like the series is exceptionally unrealistic due to the amount of labor it would take to maintain." It would be different if the hologram tech had been there from the start and it was just constantly being updated and expanded on. Sure, maybe set releases would be further apart, but you get the gist.

>>96780446
AI is getting scary fast though. In just the last two years, AI video has gone from weird novelty to powerful application; people are even using it to create videos of 3D rotations of objects and then using a scanning program to turn those videos into 3D objects.

I can easily see within 5 years that studios will be able to pump out content that would have taken a team of animators five years to make in less than a week. Within 10, the idea of taking any card's art and having an AI hologram version of it appear will not just be possible, it will be a quaint concept.

>>96783269
If it really gets that good I could see it becoming a big thing on TV just like the animes.

>>96783269
>indian doesn't know the AI bubble will pop soon
lmao

>>96784457
Why do you want this to be true?

>>96783269
A lot of people are overestimating AI right now, despite the incredible potential that it has. You can thank the rich techbros for that, because they're trying to upsell you on tech that just isn't developed enough yet.

No amount of throwing high power chips or making larger databases to pattern off of is going to accelerate actual AI development. It requires meaningful developments in computing fields. Breakthroughs in neural networking don't just happen gradually; sometimes there are very difficult problems that the field doesn't know how to overcome yet. Like any fields involving or applying mathematics, most progress is horizontal until someone manages to work out the right ways to let them go forward.

The reality is that there's no version of AI as it stands that's going to pump put "AI holograms" that are animated, because the thing we're calling AI is just outputting things based on things that already exist. We don't have a lot of well-catalogued 3D animation data to feed into AI to do that, and the degrees of specificity are too high for program that you can't literally describe something to.

>>96785662

>We don't have a lot of well-catalogued 3D animation data to feed into AI to do that,

Not only is that not neccesary, we in fact do have massive libraries of well-cataloged animation data. I don't think you've wandered into the video game modding scene any time recently.

More importantly, the process of turning a 2d card into an animated 3D model using AI does need the human "touch" at the moment ans a lot of human oversight, but many steps can be incredibly sped up, or rather, involve less human work and more computers working.

>2D card art > AI generated "Clean" Image (T-posing on a white background or whatever ends up working best). This might need a custom Lora, and needs lots of fiddling, but the basic principle is already possible and in fact done fairly often (though with... other poses)

>Clean Image > Rotating video using AI (already easily done today, though it does take a long time on home computers and often needs several attempts to get a good output)
>Rotating Video > 3D model
There's several programs that do this, essentially what 3D object scanners use.
>3D model > 3D model with bones
This is the step that still really needs humans to sit down and fix up the "scanned" 3D model and to put all the control points and joints in the right places, and while there's already new techniques/programs/plugins that make this much easier than it was in the past, it's not something we can leave to AI at the moment. But, if it remains the major bottleneck, lots of resources might get put into solving it, or at least making it much easier.

>>96786559
Boned Model> AI scripted Model
We already have people "teaching" AI models how to do things like walk, dance, and even bowl, with nothing more than pretty basic reward systems. Sure, it takes hours and thousands of iterations and a lot of human oversight, but we're still basically in the infancy of these things, and even just the last three years have shown unbelievable progress.

10 years. Two years ago, I would have said 20, and in another two years, I might say only 3 more are needed.

>>96786577
A lot of the things that you mentioned are simple, mechanical tasks, the likes of which we already were able to get robots to do. Which is to say, they aren't very good examples because we already developed a strong foundation for them to sit on.

Creative thinking, artistic thinking, is even more abstract than this. That's why the kind of visual AI outputs we have now need a lot of input, and for humans to design ways to guide it (such as by cataloguing the data sets with information tags that the AI can use to sort which information in its database is relevant). The thing has no ability to do its own contextual thinking, or even think at all. It's kind of just doing math under parameters that we created.

>>96786559
And this is a whole can of worms about ethics. Sure, if you rip a bunch of data from existing works, you could stockpile quite a lot of animation data. Maybe don't just take all of the stuff the modding communities do as a part of that without any discernment though, because the quality is going to be all over the place.

God I wish there was a way to run a TTRPG in this world, it sounds fucking wild.

>>96787646
Isn't that kind of what Millennium Blades is? A pseudo card game rpg with anime vibe battles between colorful characters and real cards

>>96751688 (OP)
He would buy wizards from hasbro and send the pinkertons to bash the skull of every jew and feminist who ever worked there and make it look like an accident.

>>96787829
There IS an RPG, but Millennium Blades is also just a tabletop game first. It has the most thorough design to match what it's like to actively play a TCG that I've ever seen.

Japan has another TTRPG for this, but it's not translated.

More recently, a PbtA game was released called Perfect Draw, which aims to match the style of the Yu-gi-oh manga and anime stories. Decks are made up of relatively few key cards, and you have filler effects in the form of "staples" that you can play on your turn. NPCs use strategies you have to overcome instead of their own RNG decks, and the life total and escalation of how much they'll do to stop you from winning is based on the importance of the card game in question. You can even do the anime equivalent of just making up cards to put your deck by spending resources (but then they actually go in your deck, so be smart about it).

>>96790356
>Perfect Draw
It's actually a pretty good design. You've got your character archetypes and moves you can apply to situations, and then also a mostly separate mechanical rule set for doing card games. It does a good job at capturing the feeling of Yu-Gi-Oh, Duel Masters, etc.

I also think it's pretty funny that the example bad guy organization in the example setting they made up is called Net Deck. Because yeah, that really would be a good name for a card games technology group.