Thread 96766169

Trench edition

Previous Heresy: >>96747573

>Legacies:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/

>HH 3.0 - Complete gofile - All Books:
https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N

>New Edition, to a great wailing and gnashing of teeth:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)
https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8
https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS
>30k TACTICA & TIPS
https://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLp
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/3.0_Tactics/General_Tactics

『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』
>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/
>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colours
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview
>More lists
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions
>What size magnets do I need?
5x1mm
>Tactics
https://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics

>Thread Question:
Are we going to get any Heresy reveals at Warhammer Day (and what do you think they will be)?

>>96766169 (OP)
They'll put the new assault terminators into a heresy box

>>96766169 (OP)
Something's missing

>>96766169 (OP)
Where horse

>>96766188
it's about damn time

>>96766169 (OP)
Mechanicum refresh

>>96766200
>>96766209
I'm sorry bro's. I don't have any heresy pictures with uma's in them.

>>96766228
>>96766228
ere we go

>>96766228
Then why make the thread dipshit

Just finished Legion. I loved the setting building vastly more than the scant depiction of the Alpha Legion. Even if this is the book that defines their core like using espionage, Alpharius Omegon being twins and actually out-spying the spy sent after them. I guess that's because I already knew that from HH3, but I did like that last bit.

But the human factions are great. The Geno Chiliad, the Lucifer Blacks. Even the Nurthene, both their military and society. Makes me want to see more Imperial Army
Do we get to see any more of Peto Soneka, Rukshanna or Hurtado Bronzi ever again in the series? I'd really like to see more of the Geno Chiliad. They cannot end like that :(
I really didn't like the AL exfiltrating like that. Feels like a waste, and I like my headcanon about their motivations more LMAO Third option: Eternal Stalemate. No side wins and chaos isn't defeated, but the Imperium survives, even if that needs it to be locked in a forever war


>>96766169 (OP)
Awright thanks m8
>>96766209
Rip Horse Heresy

>>96766200
good, fuck off with that cutesy anime bullshit, it doesn't belong here and much less in the fucking OP

Had a lovely modest game of Death Guard vs Death Guard using 2nd ed rules. Was fun having big 20 man blocks of tactical marines firing at one another with fury of the legion whilst on the move.

>>96766268
I've been a bit busy so I've been jumping in an out of the threads recently. I didn't know the horse was mandatory.
Have an updated picture.

Where's his model?

>>96766200
>>96766209
Faggots need to get out and your tranime is gay as fuck

>>96766407
>Complaining about somthing being gay
>In a warhammer thread
Anon...

Three tactical squads and a squad of tactical vets is enough line for 3k right?

>>96766571
I use 3 tactical squads, a despoiler squad, and tactical vets because I assume most of them will die

>>96766614
I also use a medusan immortals squad for what it's worth, they're expendable not line but they're a good distraction when they pop out of their termite that keeps my line units alive a little longer

>>96766614
A despoiler squad could be an idea, although im currently going with a terror squad.

Dropping it for 10 despoilers and then maybe a rhino or two could be an eventual plan. Or just more power armor goons.

>>96766407
>is gay as fuck
Really now? In my BL thread? In my sweaty men wrestling and being all tsundere and shit with each other. In my "vaguely based off the Iliad" wargaming thread?

>>96766407
>Hates anime
>Hates the gay
>Goes to thread about a gay space opera
>On an anime website
Wew lad.

>>96766169 (OP)
>TQ
The sneak peeks of embiggened Cataphractii and also Custodes are possibly getting a bit overdue, so maybe those?

>>96765361
Not bad to measure deployment zones with in a pinch if it's already on-hand.

>>96767076
>Not bad to measure deployment zones with in a pinch if it's already on-hand.
Oh my god

>>96766324
Umazing
>>96766200
>>96766209
I can't make every thread. I'm glad other people are making them more frequently. just as planned.

Okay but can we mix up the horse a bit. As much as I like gold ship there are other boob horses.

>>96767285
Nope

>>96767285
Haru Urara is also acceptable, but no other

Which gun would suit a unit of Squat Milita the best?

>>96765361

it's a handy little thing for new players that doesn't really add to cost or mean something else can't be included

unintentionally it's also an independent measure you can check against your own (or your opponent's) tape measure if you think one of them is out (as the cheap ones very often are)

>>96767355
thudd gun

>>96767355
>even having to ask this

>>96767285
I don't know any other horses, I don't even play the game nor do I plan on learning the other horses. I just think it's hilarious.

>>96767467
Consider this contender for most retarded horse.

Fuck your anime horse bs, this is a sagittary centaur setting

>>96767467
Waiting for total cultural victory when Sunset Shimmer finally makes an appearance.

>>96767593
The beleaguered and embattled ponyfags will one day be victorious in their desperate struggle against the degenerate umacoomer barbarians.

So whats everyone working on?

>>96767845
busy basecoating shit

>>96767845
Assembling faturnine dreadslop plasma brapard
Hopefully priming my phraetus + centurion

How does this list look? Both as a list (yea I know the terror squad probably isnt optimal) and in terms of names.

>>96767904
>naming every detachment, character, and squad
I KNEEL

>>96767904
excel lists, it brings back good memories

Anyone have the images of the Saturnine book lore on different legions and their Saturnine? Want to get an idea how my World Eater's used theirs.

Has anyone else noticed the community has become significantly less historical-minded and much more competitive ever since 3.0 dropped? Where did all the grogs go?

>>96767927
I tried, although im not sure if the names are very good (doesent help NL names seem to have very little "structure" to them - its not like claws/talons/whatever are an actual rank or formation, also I have no idea how to name thinks like rapier batteries and rhinoes)

>>96768002
The fuck are you on about, this general's always been filled with retarded wannabe Waacfags, why do you think they insist that the only Terminators worth taking are WS5 ones with thunder hammers

>>96768002
Cant say I have, both anecdotally and online, the edition seems less "meta-defined" than 2e

Whether thats ignorance, simply a case of the edition being younger or whatever? Idk, but things feel a lot "freer" than last ed

>>96768002
Only explanation I have is that in my area, the "historical-minded" dont like how missions and army building has narrowed armies to being more similar and are taking breaks/still playing second edition hoping in a year the journals give more options.

Like my Blood Angel player who has been a jump pack drop pod player since 1.0 is completely out of it. My White scars player didnt like all their bikes being made way less workable and now needs to paint 40 infantry. Doesnt help that alot of legion themed units are generally overpriced and generic veterans just do their jobs better.

Meanwhile, the people that like the gameplay aspects are more excited, like the army building process, like the core rules and like the emphasis on tactical marines and such. Actually have more 40k players jumping on then when 2nd dropped.

The historical players aren't "gone" they are just not interested because they all don't want to spam 40 tactical marines in rhinos.

>>96768100
>Like my Blood Angel player who has been a jump pack drop pod player since 1.0 is completely out of it. My White scars player didnt like all their bikes being made way less workable and now needs to paint 40 infantry. Doesnt help that alot of legion themed units are generally overpriced and generic veterans just do their jobs better.
That's not what a historical player is though. A historical player would happily include waves of troops with only a smattering of specialists and legion troops for a more balanced force composition like in the black books. What you're describing is a thematic player, someone who got into a legion to pursue one of its subthemes rather than to collect a holistic force.

>>96768150
>What you're describing is a thematic player, someone who got into a legion to pursue one of its subthemes rather than to collect a holistic force.

To be fair, those essentially ARE what "historical" HH players always were, people that enjoyed using the rules to express the themes of the legions and then reinforced by those who rejected 8th edition for being way less creative with its army system.

Back in 1.0, no one really wanted to just spam lines of infantry, its why 2.0 really pushed 20 man infantry squads and 3.0 made tacticals vitally important.

if your trying to force "historical" to mean "plays Warhammer like its a Napoleonic game", that just never existed in the first place.

>>96768002
I went over to the 30k EA stuff when 2.0 dropped and have been messing around with making fluffy things there since. I might also get some spessh ships for battlefleet heresy.

Does a barrage (X) weapon firing indirectly roll X+1 dice to determine scatter range or X dice to determine scatter range?
Also, what happen if a blast attacks misses but the scatter die is the target symbol?

>>96768035
Yeah lol. I genuinely can’t remember the last game I had of 2.0 without a contemptor/leviathan. Outside of the “obviously new army built from the launch box,” I’m seeing a lot more variety. People are running stupid and crazy lists and it’s great to see outside of the few exceptions in 2.0 like nl and ws bike lists

>>96768325
X dice, and you still scatter following the arrow emboldened on the hit symbol

>>96768100
>they all don't want to spam 40 tactical marines in rhinos.

I wonder what put them off, do you think it was the AL spamming Fulmentarus for most of 2.0

>>96766169 (OP)

Heya, you guys should put legionbuilder.app in the OP, it's a great resource for LI.

>>96767845
Tau

>>96768414
All the more reasons not to put it in the OP then.

I can't decide which weapons to pick.

>>96768481
The volkite culverin is the sexiest.

>>96768375
Arigatou

Got a cheap Age of Darkness 2.0 box and diving into Heresy.

Leaning towards Imperial Fists but I don't want to paint yellow.

What are my options here, should I go Ultramarines instead?

>>96768538
Salamanders.

>>96768489
Horizontal volkite is ugly

>>96768489
Volkite weapons positioned sideways is a sin against good taste and the Emperor himself, even if it makes more sense.

>>96768474

t. squealing nogames manchild

>>96768553
Too nice & I don't like the lizard fetish.

Want a brutal loyalist legion with a focus on terminators & bolter dudes

>>96768002
Because we are slowly being infiltrated by people that want nothing but to win (to a degree anyone can understand wanting to win) because they are fucking losers and have nothing else going for them in life. Same reason why people bitch and scream at GW wanting them to bend however they feel at the time. Because they are fucking losers. The spirit of the game was just that…the game. As long as the game told a story and it wasn’t about one upping your opponent and min maxing like a fucking soulless freak, then everyone wins.

>>96768481
Battery + autocannon

>>96768634

>As long as the game told a story and it wasn’t about one upping your opponent and min maxing like a fucking soulless freak, then everyone wins.

Exactly. It started with the non-Astartes factions. Who would want to play Auxilia in the Heresy and win games? It's anti-narrative. Non-space marine factions should always lose fair fights.

>>96768700
Stop posting forever.

>>96768700
Arguably the asymmetrical gameplay is a bit where some of the soul of old school 40k and HH lies. If you want to play Militia for example, then die on your feet like a fucking man. And if you win, that makes for a compelling story when the legion shows up in full. Kind of like Halo Reach. Small victories but small moments of self sacrifice to maybe get VIPs off planet. Shit like that is what keeps people coming back to the table.

>>96767860
Cool tonk, what legion?

>>96768382
Literally no Alpha Legion player I knew all 2.0 used Fulmentarus, the most common stolen units were Siege tyrants and Inner Circle.

>>96768735
My fucking sides. I see what you did there.

>>96768634
>No games retards thinking you cant build a good list and have a good game with it
>"B-but people could build broken armies"

The amount of people I saw min maxing in 2.0 was like 2 and they were only Ultra players who had to be told "hey, if you play more then one full Suzerain squad your not going to get games often" and toned it down.

>>96768481
i like autocannons :)

>>96768733

Militia should only be able to win through sheer luck. The difference in power at an even points value should be that an experienced militia player will still get rocked by an inexperienced Astartes player.

>>96768769
Is it truly the no games and no models crowd echo chamber

>>96768769

All the Ultramarines players around where I was at were running 2 or 3 Suzerain squads, they said they had to have them to compete because their legion rules were so bad.

Why I’m sticking with 2.0

>cloudy
>check forecast
>no rain
>start priming
>66% complete
>starts raining
We're hitting levels of have faith that shouldn't be possible

>>96768634
>we are slowly being infiltrated by people that want nothing but to win
And yet most of the 2.0grogs complaing about 3.0 ran FoTA. Curious . . .

>>96768800
whats stopping you from having this in 3.0

>>96768800
>NOOOOO I SHOULD BE ABLE TO ONE SHOT A SPARTAN WITH ONE UNIT OF POWER LANCES IT'S NOT FAAAAIR
Fuck off mong

>>96768738
every time I even saw photos of someone's Fulmentarus they were in AL armies

one dude literally had 30 of them, and I know I saw those pictures in /hhg/

>>96768481
anybody else think it's weird that the melta lance is the only melta weapon that doesn't have the Melta (X) rule? it's a good gun, it'll fuck shit up with D4 and S9/10, but it's the only one and I think it's intentional because it has native Armourbane

strange

>>96768602
I hate to say it but Iron Hands

>>96769025
Huh, seems to be a carryover from second, guess it's just a thing for that weapon.

>>96769049
We do get two different faction terminator units

>>96767860
>Get a super heavy
>Gets it fancy doors
As one should. Very based.

>>96768800
Arent bikes really good in 3.0? Bike command squads look insane frankly now that theyre 3w each.

Speeders also look really well costed. Is it just the scoring issues?

>>96768481
I didn't know it had a lascannon, anyone have a pic with it?

>>96769183
NTA but I assume so. I'm currently doing WS, and it's a little annoying how everyone just says "bikes only" when clearly the Legion would have utilised tacticals and tanks and assault squads and termies and whatever else just like everyone else. Other WS players have to get over it a bit.

Wait, heavy sentinels had lascannons the whole fucking time? It's not even shown on the website or box.

WHY?

Do you think anyone would care if I used this guy as a centurion in gorgon armor? The power maul is a little weak, could just say it's a thunder hammer or try to find a hammer that works with the pose.

>>96769240
>this model is so LE KEWL PLEASE LET ME USE IT btw that obvious powermaul is ackshually the WAACfag anti-TEQ weapon, also storm bolters are canon to 30k
Make like an Immortal and hold the center objective

>>96769200
The thing is that (at least on paper) basic bikes are insanely good. Theyre 20pts for double the durability of a tactical around double the firepower (technically less if they fury, but then you have firestorm to compensate) plus youre insanely fast.

Even without plasma bikes just look really appealing.

I can on some level understand people being annoyed that 100% pure bike lists arent viable (not that they really ever were last edition mind you, bikes were awful in 2e) but the unit seems finally fun to use, I just wish they were 2A so they could have a bit more hybrid melee ability,.

>>96769240
If you swap his weapons then I wouldn't mind

>>96769240
I think if you want to use it as a thunder hammer you should replace it with a thunder hammer. Also maybe consider changing the gun to something more appropriate like a combi bolter.

Beyond that? I think its fine. Technically indomitus vs tartaros but its teched up and stuff so I think it works.

>>96769283
I don't disagree, but WS are not just one thing and though the bikes are a huge part of that identity, it's not at the exclusion of literally everything else

Can’t score

>>96769323
Yea, I can sympathize with someone who DID have a full bike list and is now kinda (even more) fucked, but really one note spam armies arent that interesting (or healthy for the game).

"every legion used everything" isnt just true, it makes for more interesting games.

>>96769307
Gorgon, not tartaros. Gorgon is literally an indomitus variant

I'd probably swap the storm bolter for a combi melta or something.

>>96769277
>waacfag

Power mauls are fucking garbage for an actual fighter, they're fine to give to like a random sergeant or assault marine but are you really telling me you're going to have a minimum 130 point character use a power maul? If your 130 point character is using something other than a paragon blade, power fist, or thunder hammer you're begging to get clowned on by someone who does have that.

>>96769349
>Gorgon is literally an indomitus variant
I thought Gorgon was a tartaros variant? Is it actually just straight up indomitus?

>>96769362
Gorgon is an upgrade for a tartaros character, but the armor itself is based on indomitus.

These are gorgon terminators.

Bikes and speeders aren’t line or vanguard. They’re not particularly bad, it just makes for an army that can score points. I’m not interested in spamming tacticals, rhinos, and centurions. There’s no problem getting a game of 2.0 here either so they can keep their 3.0 garbage.

>>96769376
Huh, based on the upgrade I assumed it was a tartaros variant.

But yea, if its actually Indomitus theres literally no reason that dude wouldnt work (with a different gun)

>>96769386
Bikes are vanguard(1), and have the ranged firepower to potentially score it at range. Line bikes would be pointless since they cant hold objectives.

>>96769349
wow that's a lot 40kid waacfag words
too bad I ain't readin' 'em

>>96769398
Honestly with the crotch plate and the cog tooth shoulders dude looks more like gorgon armor than indomitus armor to begin with

Look again, bikes with wheels are vanguard 1. See any wheels on my army?

>>96769240
As long as you don't paint him as a nigger

>>96769386
Outriders are vanguard, and you can give any unit vanguard with a Master of Signals

WS also have one of the best line units in the game through Expendable (2) tacticals/despoilers

>There’s no problem getting a game of 2.0 here either so they can keep their 3.0 garbage.
But bikes are awful in 2.0, it's not a viable army list there at all

I think you're a whiny fag and for that reason I'm glad you're stuck in the 2.0 ghetto with your bikes.

>>96769349
I knowe a guy who runs his cata centurion with a power axe because thats what the model has.

There is nothing wrong with giving your character a thunder hammer, its obviously correct over a power maul mechanically, but someone really bothered by the "suboptimalness" of the model he wants to use because it looks good is clearly WAAC.
"man this guy looks so cool I really want to use him, do you mind if his loadout just counts as something entirely different because its not the meta?" is WAAC

I want to fluff my force as cut off from Loyalist territories and manage the defense of a few disconnected systems with the assistance of an allied Loyalist Forgeworld. To help represent this, I've been sifting through STLs to find armors that aren't associated with any particular legion. Most offerings are shit, but I found a few heads I'd like to use as variant patterns of the main Armor Marks. From left to right:

>Mark V, possibly Mark IV
>Mark V
>Mark VI, thinking I'll save these as a variant helm for when I get around to doing Sons of Horus
>Mark V, It's a pretty close approximation of some old Rogue Trader art I like
>Mark III

Do you guys even think these look good or are worth having?

>>96769424
It's weird too because many of these complaints can be rectified with "Hey man, want to play kill points?" and maybe throwing an extra turn in

You do NOT have to always chase the magical objective circles, GW cannot force you

>>96769439
Power axes are actually useful though

>>96769451
The Rogue Trader art in question

>>96769451
>>96769468

>>96768002
I assume the grogs are still playing 2.0 with a one-dread-per-1k rule. This isn't 40k, to even play HH you need a dedicated group of people outside the normiesphere. If the group doesn't want the weird 30/40k mashup that 3.0 is, they can just not play it.

>>96769451
Please do not use any of these they're all awful

>>96768002
Because the guys who are interested in narrative games can fix nearly everything in 3.0 by just making their own missions

What you have on /tg/ are /40kg/ refugees who want to treat 30k as a tournament game, but will feign veterancy and say that 2.0 was somehow more suited to their tastes (despite having never played it)

>>96768800
Just run Blackshields and play kill points instead of standing on circles.

>>96769461
Compared to a power fist/thunder hammer?

A power axe and power maul are, generally, comparable. Theyre not particularly exciting or powerful weapons and generally a character doesent want to be using them. (this goes for the other power weapon tier things too, like power scythes, frost axes/claws, chainglaives and even TLC/ravens talons).
But if a model has them, you may as well use them imo - provided you play in an environment where other people are of similar mindset - because if makes for more interesting and memorable situations than everyone gravitating towards the same optimal character loadouts.

Also for my two cents: converted characters with the "correct" loadout are better than "just imagine they use the meta equipment" because the latter basically reinforces that you arent using what you think is cool and interesting but what is mechanically good. It may be literally true in both cases, but in the latter its really emphasized every time you look at the model and go "oh right, that power scythe is actually a thunder hammer"

Centurions are the cheapest model with access to officer wargear, right? Kinda want to run someone with double grav pistols for the hell of it

>>96768800
You can run all of those just fine in 3.0, scars have no issues getting the slots necessary for it and that's not 3k points

>>96769524
All they need to do is make paragon blades damage 2 and they'd be worth taking

>>96769537
I think paragon blades are already worth taking, and at damage 2 they would be far too good.

At initiative Ap2 is something which is (and should forever be) at a high premium.

>>96769524

You should embrace the mechanics/model decoupling. Just count every character as using a thunder hammer, and let people model whatever they think is cool.

>>96769570
>At initiative Ap2 is something which is (and should forever be) at a high premium.
It is at a premium solely because you should only be able to get them on a praetor or champion, and they can be priced at or above TH prices

>>96769609
But isnt that unbearably lame?

A D2 paragon blade would still be wounding terminators on 4s while a thunder hammer wounds on 2s, you are still paying for hitting at initiative if it became D2

>>96769640
>It is at a premium solely because you should only be able to get them on a praetor or champion
That is - with few exceptions like ophanim- the case.

>and they can be priced at or above TH prices
That doesent really change the fact that you still create a new super-weapon tier which supplants all others, and which reduces praetors to just one option. Except now you even supplant legion special variants.

>>96769648

Let's be real here, the CAACfag HH players are going to whine that anything that beats their precious HH character in a duel is overpowered no matter what, so might as well flatten everything out.

>>96769662
>new superweapon
>S+1

>>96769668
CAAC?

>>96769655
Cataphractii pay for their T5/4++ in other ways that are pretty meaningful, whether that's a character in Cataphractii or a command squad wearing it

>>96769677
Who said anything about cataphractii?

>>96769674
Yea anon, S5 D2 at initiative is insane.

>>96769675

Casual at all costs. Basically, WAAC but too stupid/incompetent to actually play at anything approaching a competitive level, so they shame everyone who can beat them as a WAACfag.

>>96769919
>playing a narrative game at a competitive level

>>96770001

Well, remember, these CAAC players care a *lot* about who wins, they aren't satisfied with anything narrative. They want to win and if they can't win they want house rules to make it so they can, and to shame people who beat them for playing the game wrong.

>>96770068
Are the CAAC players in the room with us right now anon

>>96770087

Like 85% of the HH playerbase is like that

I have a full unit of WS4 terminators so I think that puts me out of the running of trying to actually win games

>>96770138
So the problem is the majority of players who all agree on how the game should be played and the 15% minority who want to scrim for tournies? Curious . . .

>>96770173
you don't care about their ws4 since they're just going to be firing their autocannons

>>96770226
Nah babe we shooting grav blasters

>>96766271
The Imperial Army barely felt imperial. The Chilliad is alright (even through they had gravity pikes at their disposal), but the Thorn guys had psycho reactive armours with quills.
And I bet Namatjira's armour is purely ornamental but still. Six arms. Looks weird. Guess he's just that kind of space indian

>>96769662
There already is essentially only one option, even if fists aren't a huge downgrade from TH
A praetor with a TH is already hitting before any non-hero terminator with a TH, so it's still a sidegrade in a lot of important match-ups even with D2.

>>96769524
>oh right, that power scythe is actually a thunder hammer
Bro I fucking wish. Deathshroud are the best bodies holding the worst weapon

>>96770369
As is there are multiple legion specific weapons that can all be viably taken and paragon blades are also competetive with the thunder hammer if the focus is on killing characters (particularly lower durability ones).

>>96770372
Isnt that like the whole point? Its like red butcher, very strong defensive statline coupled with subpar offense to shift them towards clearling masses.

>>96769570
AP2 at initiative isn't that good anymore now that Instant Death is gone. Back then you could do with a single lucky hit, now you need several guaranteed ones.
S5 fails to wound termies half the times it hits, and fails to go through half the time it wounds, because it's often used against valuable targets. And valuable targets have a 4++.
All of that for a single wound? Even a nameless terminator can survive that nowadays.

>>96770397
Anon finishing blow exists. 2d6 drop highest > d6 -2. Suddenly your paragon blade is ALREADY S6 Ap2 D2 with critical hits

>>96770173
Stock tartaros are fantastic value per point to remove MEQs from any objectives you don't want them in

>>96770369
>There already is essentially only one option, even if fists aren't a huge downgrade from TH
Kinda unrelated, I wish fists weren't a massive downgrade from hammers :(
I really thought hammers were going to be power fists with +5 pts worth of improvement that would show against big targets, or Stun a squad or something (Gorgons Hammerbearer)

Instead, they're effectively high speed low drag Fists for fighting infantry, which is the most useful target to specc against anyways.
Booo!

>>96770388
>particularly lower durability ones
Nobody cares about specializing against lower durability targets because they are lower durability, and thus are killed by whatever
That's like buying a Combine Harvester to mow a lawn

Also, Red Butcher weapons are fine. What is retarded is their wielders always being hit like they are WS3 lmao. Okay weapons on shitty wearers, that's effectively Reverse Deathshroud

>>96770173
I know this is bait, but vanilla terminators are both very good. They have solid ranged power for their cost/niche and are very durable for their cost, with essentially no good answers but "elite melee deathstar" - which are in turn much easier to counter

>>96770427
Counterpoint: The difference between a fist and a hammer only matters if you intend to be fighting fists or hammers. I know everyone has deathstar brain but there are other niches beyond mashing your melee elites into their melee elites. The added strength is useful for fighting walkers and vehicles and - outside of specifically facing fists and hammers - has no drawbacks.

>>96770445
>Also, Red Butcher weapons are fine
As are power scythes, theyre both "better power axes". Butchers have breaching 4+ vs 5+ (no, the +1A doesent count because theyre only 2A base) while deathshroud have reaping blow. But theyre both still D1, not guaranteed Ap2 and generally subpar compared to say a thunder hammer or power fist

In exchange they get eternal warrior(1), essentially doubling their durability vs the most commonly effective answers (whether thats hammers or D2 Ap2 shooting)

>>96770409
If you're using Finishing Blow, you might as well use it with a Hammer. On average, a Finishing Hammer does 5D to a Cataphractii WS5 character, which means death.
Meanwhile, a Paragon Blade does 3.5D to the same target, already taking Critical 6+ into account. They just don't kill it.

>>96770445
>Nobody cares about specializing against lower durability targets
They do, because thats most of the targets theyre facing. Your odds of facing a centurion or regular praetor are much higher than your odds of facing something like a terminator/saturnine praetor. Praetors are already much rarer than all other characters and terminators are slow and specialized.

Planning exclusively around the easily avoidable (if its even possible) deathball between two terminator praetors is rather stupid. Not taking some free damage because

>>96770388
>and paragon blades are also competetive with the thunder hammer if the focus is on killing characters (particularly lower durability ones).
That's not really true, especially in challenges

>>96769183
Bikes are pretty good. What that anon is bitching about is needing Not Bikes to score objectives

>>96770512
People on the internet seem to always assume everyone takes the same deathstar unit and immediately runs it into their opponent's identical deathstar unit

>>96770507
>If you're using Finishing Blow, you might as well use it with a Hammer
D2 and D3 are functionally the same vs W4, hammers only benefit from finishing blow under specific matchups


>On average, a Finishing Hammer does 5D to a Cataphractii WS5
Not quite. On average the damage output is 4.~ wounds with around a 42% chance for a first turn kill.

It should be noted however that vs Ws5 terminator characters (most of the time, if not always) finishing blow does nothing. Since they have 4w and thats the breakpoint. You still need two unsaved wounds - whether you deal 4 or 6 damage doesent matter very much (it has the effect of an extra -1 to focus in subsequent rounds of combat)

I'm actually wondering how footslogging gorgons would do. They're M7 like tartaros, I've put them in my spartan before but since they're tougher than cataphractii saving the 400 points on transport could be nice since that's about what the squad costs. I'll have to try it out, they should be able to get to the center objective on foot with most alive.

Giving them an apothecary might be funny. 2+/5++/5+++/4++++

>>96770478
>Scythes are better axes
Scythes pay +10 to be exactly the same as axes unless you fulfill a specific condition that can only be fulfilled by Troops, the one target no Elites/Retinue gives a crap to specialize in melee against because Dedicated Melee squad defeats them already.
SCYTHES ARE MORE EXPENSIVE THAN HANMERS yet comparable to axes the VAST majority of the time. I cannot overstate how bad scythes really are
>only 2A base
Yet more evidence of Red Butcher wielders being just awful. But the world is simply not prepared for 5A butchers on the charge (it is)

>>96770512
Terminators are slow and specialized if you take cataphractii, tartaros are the same speed as normal infantry with the only drawback being needing a land raider instead of a rhino

People often take cataphractii because the drawbacks for them over tartaros actually don't matter in most cases, but if you are worried about speed then tartaros is just +1T and +1W for characters for no drawback other than a bit more points and transport

>>96770512
Anon, please don't use Legion Specifics against mere Troops. It's a gross misuse of points. I bet people like you claim Phoenix Terminators are actually good and they just need to be given a chance (against Tacticals)

>>96770546
>D2 and D3 are functionally the same vs W4
Then just Seize with a Hammer instead?

>>96770566
That used to be the case, but heavy is pretty crippling for a melee unit that wants to charge now

>>96770595
Tartaros isn't heavy anon

>>96770564
Deathshroud do not pay for their scythes. I was not making a statement regarding scythes as "game options" but as an objective 1:1 comparison to the axe (where they are objectively better, having the same stats and then reaping blow)

>unless you fulfill a specific condition that can only be fulfilled by Troops
You just have to be outnumbered. A squad of say 5 terminators can very easily find itself outnumbered, especially if reduced below maximum strength. Is it going to always be active? No, but its a rule which will be relevant if deathshroud are used for their intended function (not as a deathstar but as independent cost effective threats).

Also: basically all power weapon upgrades are more expensive than hammers, and none of them are worth it in that comparison. Frost weapons, nostraman chain weapons tainted weapons, perdition weapons, the power glaive. Its all too pricy. Power weapons are too desu.

Something like "power weapon: 5pts, upgrade +5pts" feels reasonable imo, still weaker than the hammer but now at least cheaper, but im sure something breaks if you do that.

(also butcher axes are ALSO worse than the hammer)

>Yet more evidence of Red Butcher wielders being just awful
Firedrakes are also 2A (because their hammers are +1A)

So, Armilus Dynat only ever appears in HH3 Extermination. Doesn't actually appear in any BL novel or even a short story
Are there any other characters like him? That have rules but never appear in any BL publication?
I would think of DG Durak Rask and WE Shabran Darr, both of whom die on Istvaan III (didn't read that novel, idk if they appear), and tank commander IH Castrm Oorth (never heard of him)

>>96770566
Points and not having access to other mobility options (like a jump pack). Having to take a land raider or spartan is also a pretty decent tax to pay, those arent exactly cheap vehicles and as gun platforms arent exactly very impressive for their cost either

>>96770625
>Doesn't actually appear in any BL novel or even a short story

How to expose yourself as an illiterate secondary in one sentence lmao.

>>96770608
>Is it going to always be active? No but...
Yet they're always going to cost more, regardless of you getting the benefit. Conditional stats help you some times. Improved stats help you ALL times. If they're going to cost what they cost at least give them the S+2 they had last edition
>basically all power weapon upgrades are more expensive than hammers, and none of them are worth it in that comparison
Sounds like a bad thing. Sounds like a thing that would make me want to always buy hammers every time all day long, it does. Yuck.

>>96770646
...are you going to say where he appears, or is prancing around all faggot-like good enough for you?

>>96770650
>Yet they're always going to cost more
Deathshroud do not pay for power scythes, they are an inherent part of their kit.

>Sounds like a bad thing.
It is, its not good balancing. Not entirely relevant to Deathshroud who cant do that. Im sure contekar would also like to have hammers over their chainglaives.

>>96770628
Guess Jump Command Squads will be in high demand
>Half a dozen Lascannon barrels aren't impressive anymore
Bro what the fuck is this timeline

Yeah, power weapons being 10 points and hammers being 15 is retarded.

You're spending 100 points on that character already, or whatever the cost is. But can't pay an extra 5 points to go from "absolutely mid weapon that's only useful for killing tac marines" to "best weapon in the game"

The same cost as switching from a bolt pistol to a plasma pistol, which i can fucking guarantee you does not have the same impact as switching from a power sword to a thunder hammer

>>96770658
No. Not gonna spoon feed you, I'm not your mommy. Even if you are too lazy to read a fucking book yourself you can search for the info.

>>96770676
>Guess Jump Command Squads will be in high demand
They do seem pretty good, the buff to combat shields really helps them too (in combat theyre as durable as tartaros terminators vs thunder hammers and the like). Maybe even bike command squads if you dont care about scoring with them, the 3w is pretty big in a world of damage 2 fists, hammers and lascannons.

>Bro what the fuck is this timeline
One where the game corrected itself for its skew (and as such a 10 man lascannon HSS is no longer the be all end all "big gun" option). It now also has a place for those dedicated "superheavy guns" that previously had no reason to exist.

The issue isnt just "lascannons arent impressive any more", theyre fine weapons, a tank that shoots out 6 lascannon shots per turn would have okay damage depending on its cost and role. Their issue is that A: they get half as good if you move (which transports want to) and that B: land raiders (and especially spartans) are expensive.
A spartan is around the same cost as a fully kitted out kratos, there is a pretty substantial difference in firepower (especially in terms of hard AT) between the two.

>>96770711
Land raiders and spartans are mainly transport vehicles. And finally as durable as they should be, one being popped turn one is no longer a guarantee.
The firepower is just an added bonus. If you're taking land raiders for their shooting your brain must be incredibly smooth.

>>96770687
He doesn't appear in "Harrowing". Either his destruction of Callista Mundi is a lie (?) or CallistRa MundUS is a whole different planet. And being mentioned in Head of the Hydra doesn't count as appearing
Hence I ask: because I don't fucking know (and I believe one of you may know)

>>96770733
>Land raiders and spartans are mainly transport vehicles
I am aware. Them not being very good gun platforms for the cost doesent contradict that (nor does them being transports contradict the fact that they dont have very good bang for their buck).
Thats literally the point, that theyre an expensive investment you are making for the sake of transporting another unit (most often terminators, like discussed earlier)
Theyre a tax you pay to make your firedrakes or whatever useful, rather than a unit you feel good about taking for their own sake.

This leads back to the wider point that terminator characters are an investment over the alternatives, its not just a small points cost for some stats.

>>96770680
Good point, however, my WB centurion with a tainted blade is going to grandstand to his 50-man levy squad, earning an extra 10 attacks (blessed is the mind too small for doubt)

>>96770733
12 Lascannons borne by Predators cost 390 pts (32.5 pts per Lascannon)
12 Lascannons borne by Lands Raider Proteus cost 480 pts (40 pts per Lascannon)
Predators are more flexible (faster, but can stay still if they need to and don't need to always go forwards like the LRs have to) but more vulnerable to some weapons, although AV13 HP5 is tough enough to require dedicated tank-hunting guns to deal with.
Though the comparison may have the flaw of "Why are you arming Predators with Lascannons instead of Magna-Meltas" indeed

>>96770833
Bro is going full Athame Witnessing. I wonder if he'll win the duel yet still lose the combat, even with his vexilla, the Overseer's vexilla and the WB trait

>>96770222

No, the problem is in the 85% of the playerbase who are incredibly poor sports and who get sour every time they lose.

>>96770867
Me with my 420 point cerberus tank destroyer with 2 lascannons and 3 S10 D6 main gun shots wondering why I don't just use 3 predators after it kills itself with overload

>>96768738
I think not even IW themselves are going to use Tyrants, other than out of sheer bitterness

>>96770350
>the Thorn guys had psycho reactive armours with quills
I wonder what kind of outlandish fluff and background building I can get away with when the official examples can do shit like that
I do wish we had rules for the actual Imperial Army, rather than what is effectively the Imperial PDF

What exactly is the point of the deredeo now?

It's 190 points for basically a predator with an invuln. Its plasma is a slightly worse version of the predator plasma, the volkite falconet is a sidegrade of the predator volkite (2 more shots and pinning at S7, but the predator one is D2). The lascannon is about as powerful as a quad lascannon predator. The autocannon is a decent rhino killer but you can do a lot better for 190 points than killing rhinos.

The AD missiles aren't armorbane, so even though you can fire all 4 at once they're either going to mostly splash off a real target without hurting it, or will help the main guns overkill a lightly armored vehicle since they can't split fire anymore. They're AP2, so I could see it doing pretty okay at hurting other dreadnoughts though, or killing saturnine terminators.

Autocannon + AD missile, or lascannon + AD missile seems like the best bet, the former hoping for those 5+ breach rolls or light armor, and the latter trying to go after stuff like predators and sicarans. But I just don't see 190/215 points of value in this. Killing dreadnoughts seems like the best use case to me.

I feel like point for point I'd be better off using a castraferrum

>>96771153
I didn't play 2.0, just 1.0, so I double checked the rules for that and see the missiles lost independent tracking in 2.0. The aiolos still had pinning though which is gone, plus dropping it from AP3 to make it a small blast instead. I don't actually remember what the boreas AD missile did in 1.0, mine has the aiolos.

>>96771153
How does it do against Contemptors? Or maybe it can stun vehicles? That's basically the new Vehicle Damage

>>96771323
Well against contemptors or leviathans the lascannons wound on 2s (if stationary) and are AP2 D4, The missiles will wound a contemptor on a 3. So after invulns and hit rolls and wound rolls, 2 lascannon shots and 2 missiles has a reasonable chance of killing a contemptor or a leviathan, since that's 7 damage if 1 of each gets through and a leviathn is 7 wounds. Can do that twice since you have 4 missiles total.

You need some decent luck but could reasonably kill 2 dreadnoughts in 2 turns, especially if contemptors since the AD missiles wound those better. If you fire all 4 missiles and 2 lascannons you might drop a saturnine with good rolls, or at least severely damage it.

As for vehicles, none of the weapons have Shock.

>>96769451
for a second i thought you wrote loyalist terrorist.

>>96771371
Also let's keep in mind opportunity cost

For the 215 points of that deredeo, I can have a sicaran venator with 2 lascannon sponsons and a pintle multimelta, and that is going to take up 1/4 of an armor detachment instead of 1 entire war engine detachment. Or for 195 I could have 3 rapier laser destroyers. Like there's just better ways to spend those points if I want AT. The only niche the deredeo has is skyfire and that's not particularly valuable, everything else it does is done better by something else since it lost BS5, it lost helical targeting, it lost independent tracking and pinning. It lost every rule that made it interesting and it's just a predator on legs with a 5++ for like 1.75x the cost or so

Have any ideas about listbuilding guidelines been solidified for the new edition? I'm wondering if there's a general rule of thumb for how many points should be put towards stuff like line, command, vanguard or etc before spending more points on death stars or big tanks. It took me like an hour and a half to build a list this evening because I had a lot of choice paralysis

>>96771153
Idk every fucking time a buddy of mine brings it, it deletes whatever squad it looks at.

>>96771503
Sicaran has skyfire too right?

>>96770608
Your bulky value counts, so 5 termis count as 10

>>96771541
Oh just outright killing people. Forgot about that one basic job lol

Does Rending work on Blast weapons? They roll to hit, right?

>>96771550
Sure if you bring the twin autocannons, but like skyfire seems pointless. There was a discussion earlier in the last thread that there's no real reason to take skyfire. Like fuck, in HH2 it didn't have to spend a reaction point to intercept, that makes it actually useful. But you're burning a reaction point in HH3 for the privilege of possibly shooting down a storm eagle, or doing 6-10 damage to a thunderhawk with 18 wounds

>>96771541
So would a predator with an equivalent gun, for a little over half the price. The predator's plasma is literally a slightly better version of the deredeo's plasma, the predator's volkite is better against W2 targets (and still probably better overall since the predator can equip volkite or lascannon sponsons instead of being stuck with the secondary HBs on the deredeo), and on top of that the predator can get even more stuff like the heavy conversion beamer which will obliterate any 3+ save squad at 15 inches or 2+ at 30 inches, or the predator can use the magna melta, lots of options. And while it does that it's not requiring a logistical benefit slot or an entire detachment, you can fit in 4 tanks.

>>96771153
>Invulnerable save
>Can control objectives
>Not affected by Melta
>Can't be attacked with krak grenades or melta bombs
>Can always return fire with all their weapons

Despite how much /hhg/ bitches about dreadnoughts, they do still have quite some advantages over vehicles.

>>96771617
>it's not requiring a logistical benefit slot or an entire detachment
FOC juggling is the biggest sin of this edition

>>96771630
And it pays for it. You are paying, for example, 105 points for a predator with a volkite macro-saker and 2 HBs, and 195 for a deredeo with a volkite falconet, 2 HBs, and 1 s5 small blast (2 if stationary). And you are also paying for an entire command slot to give you a war engine.

I didn't say a deredeo couldn't accomplish things. I said its not worth the price you pay to do it.

>>96771692
And hell, let's be generous and give the predator another 5 points for a havoc launcher so it also throws out a s5 blast but this one is stunning

>>96771637
Honestly I thought it was going to be so much harder then it is. My squat army from 1.0 is back up an running with minimal purchases at 2K with 3 aux and one prime slot.

>>96771630
>invuln save

Against a lascannon a deredeo is wounded on a 2+. A predator takes wounds on a 4+. So AV13 is more protective than T7 2+/5++ save versus the most common AT weapon. The deredeo is better protected vs something like a krak missile or other high strength low AP weapons.

Got a 3k list together for a friendly weekend tournament. I'm low on armour, but hopefully it's fun.

Loyalist Alpha Legion– 2984 pts

>Crusade Primary Detachment
Praetor – 137
-Paragon Blade
-Volkite Charger

Centurion – 95
-Power Fist
-Bolt Pistol
Prime Trait – Paragon of Battle

Saboteur – 95

Tactical Squad – 135
-Vexilla, Nuncio Vox
-Sergeant w/Bolter, Power Fist
Prime Trait – Combat Veterans

Tactical Squad – 135
-Vexilla, Nuncio Vox
-Sergeant w/Bolter, Power Fist

Rhino – 75
-2 Combi-Bolters
-Dozer Blades

Rhino – 75
-2 Combi-Bolters
-Dozer Blades


>Army Vanguard Apex Detachment
Lernean Terminator Squad – 265
-5 Power Axes
-4 Volkite Chargers
-1 Conversion Beamer
Prime Trait – Master Sergeant

Lernean Terminator Squad – 315
-2 Chainfists
-3 Power Fists
-4 Volkite Chargers
-1 Conversion Beamer


>Headhunter Leviathal Auxiliary Detachment
Scout Squad – 112
-5 Scouts w/Nemesis Bolters
-Scout Sergeant w/Nemesis Bolter
Prime Trait – Combat Veterans

Headhunter Squad – 185
-4 Combi-Meltas
-1 Multi-Melta

Headhunter Squad – 185
-4 Combi-Meltas
-1 Multi-Melta


>Shock Assault Auxiliary Detachment
Cataphractii Terminator Squad – 415
-9 Power Fists
-2 Heavy Flamers
-7 Combi Bolters
-Sergeant w/Combi Bolter, Thunder Hammer, Grenade Harness


>Tactical Support Auxiliary Detachment
Araknae Quad Accelerator Platform – 125

Tactical Support Squad – 190 (1/2 unit – 100 )
-10 Marines w/Volkite Calivers, Nuncio Vox


>Lord of War Detachment
Knight Questoris – 445
-Rapid-Fire BattleCannon & Co-ax stubber
-Avenger Gatling Cannon & Co-ax Heavy Flamer
-Hull-Mounted Meltagun
-Dorsal Mounted Twin Icarus Autocannon

>>96767845
Finished another 5 despoilers, finished building another 5 ashen circle, and starting on the bases for said despoilers

>>96767845 #
Finished another 5 despoilers, finished building another 5 ashen circle, and starting on the bases for said despoilers

>>96771904
>only 2 tac squads
>3 (!) footslogging termie squads
>no Rewards of Treachery
>no deep strikes
I am befuddled

>>96771930
>I am befuddled
Exactly as planned.

Non-meme reasoning - I'm short of land raiders and spartans, and figured that any significant anti-TEQ threats will hopefully be dealt with by my saboteur and headhunters. Don't really care for deep striking, although I have some javelins and sky-hunters in the works for later additions to the list. I've never really liked taking rewards of treachery units, but that's just a matter of personal taste.

How would one model a black shield army of cones turned automata? I was thinking spare mech limbs and stuff, and same one head, printed ad nausium painted the exact same way.

>>96770747
I'm pretty sure I've read every piece of AL fiction put out by BL and he's not in any of it other than the mention in Head of the Hydra like you said. There's multiple characters that originate in the FW black books for the various legions rather than the HH series, Dynat isn't special in that regard.

>>96771992
It's more that footslogging terminators in cataphractii are so slow that people don't even have to kill them - they can just be ignored because the game will be over before those terminators get anywhere.
This is less of an issue for Lernaean though. With line 1 they can just camp an objective, and now that the conversion beamer has a better profile they do some decent long range damage too.

>>96769240
It's fine to use him but don't call this a thunder hammer, it's obviously a maul.

>>96772591
get fucked it's an special looking thunder hammer if I pay the points for it to be

>>96767845
Been on hold all week, hopefully getting back to finishing a tank (or at least getting closer) tonight.

>>96769410
his single exposed eye?

What are some good Alpha Legion reads? I mean besides HH3 Extermination and Head of the Hydra lol

Is it worth waiting around for updated Cataphractii and Tartaros Terminator armour, or should I opt for third-party?

>>96772591
>>96773229
Define what shape is a power maul, and define what shape is a thunder Hammer
Because to me, power "mauls" look like Maces, which are different, and thunder "hammers" actually look like two handed mauls.
Do not mention that Thunder Hammers use capacitors to release the accumulated energy. That's indeed the core difference, but that doesn't depend on the shape. Technically a big power axe could do exactly the same if fitted with said capacitor, and you wouldn't say an axe is a thunder hammer

>>96773229
If I ever see you with that model I'll snap off that ugly mace and ram it up your urethra

>>96773285
You should also read HH8 Malevolence for more on the AL and the Chondax campaign.
>BL books
Legion was their introduction in the HH books, but it's shared with Imperial Army stuff and the fucking Perpetuals.
The Serpent Beneath, The Seventh Serpent, The Harrowing, and Liar's Due are all decent AL stories

If earth had a twin planet at twice the distance from the moon...would it matter? Like, there'd be the same resources right here, instead of 500,000 miles away. Whatever you'd do that far away, you could do right here.

>>96773321
Thanks

>>96773324
If Earth had a twin planet at twice the distance from the moon, both would be fucked and inhabitable by huge gravitational effects

>>96773331
The tides would be higher, averaging 15 m instead of the current 1m, and coastal topography could increase that. And there would be increased vulcanism.
But unless you live in Hawaii, that's solvable

>>96773317
Don't threaten me with a good time

>>96769525
Run Blackshield Alone and Forgotten HeroCraft army, take any weird Centurion you want.
It sucks Moritats can't take cool officer wargear, I'd love a few with WB plasmas or grav pistols or something. Even flamers would be cool.

>>96773229
>>96773309
>t.

>>96773321
>>96773329
Don't forget Praetorian of Dorn.

>>96773286
Don't wait for nuTartaros, we didn't even see new Catas so Tartaros are like 2 years from now

>>96773404
I thought they were showing upscaled HH termies at some event soon?

>>96773309
>>96772591
A hammer is a hammer, the rest mace-like weapons can be power mauls (even tho technically maul is a hammer but that's GW's naming genius). Now you are calling it a Thunder Hammer because rules for Power Mauls are meh but when they get buffed you are going to call it a Maul, please don't be this kind of a fag.
I dropped 40k and settled for HH just so I don't have to guess what is on the model. Let's have some standards.

>>96773426
If so, it's only Cataphractii for now. Tartaros could be closer to nuMk4 release, around 4th edition

>>96769451
First on the left is mk2 Death Guard, second is mk4 black legion, third is generic mk5, fourth doesn't ring a bell, fifth is mk6 alpha legion, you can see it's a mk6 by the flat helmet with the sensors on top.

>>96773479
I just want mkV lads... They've started modelling them as very barrel-chested, that BT 40 Castelland and Endryd Haar

>>96773528
Castellan and Haar are not good representation of the new Mk5 since they both are so big but we can see the new design on one of the new resin Apothecaries.

>>96773723
Fuck. Hate it, the head is awful.

>>96773755
It looks bad painted on the photos but in hands it's quite nice, a bit longer snout makes more sense than the older design
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQWuzhZadjU&t=363s

>>96773317
Bitch what do you even bench? If it's less than 300 you check that tone and lower you eyes when you speak to me

ironbros...GW has ignored us once again...

>>96773834
I've benched your mom so that's at least 500, and that's me being generous

Being able to point and say "consult the chart" might be helpful.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/nie3ma9d/the-compatibility-matrix-combine-your-kits-to-make-countless-units-in-the-horus-heresy/

>>96773848
So less than 300 lbs, got it
Check that tone little 'man'

>>96772591
it's a paragon blade

>>96773960
You realize how embarrassing this sounds for you right

>>96769240
You won't encounter any of the no games no model faggots at your local gamestore so feel free to use it. Do as you please. Personally, I think that it's large and unwieldy enough to be considered a thunder hammer.

>>96769240
I would certainly replace the storm bolter with a combi bolter

>>96774027
The "paragon blades can take literally any form, it doesn't matter" line has one shot so many WYSIWYG fags it's hilarious

>>96774287
Yeah I have several spare from my gorgons, and will probably end up giving him a combi melta anyway

>>96773847
I'm actually really sick of this "fuck the Iron Warriors" that Warhammer community and The Horus Heresy has been doing for years.

>>96774293
>Play the red headed stepchild faction
>Get mad when they get treated like the red headed stepchild
Shiggy

>>96774293
nah, fuck the iron warriors AND FUCK Pertatardo

>>96774293
Personally I find it amusing.

>>96773883
>People used to not even consult the assembly guide when building their models
>People used to do kitbashes and conversions out of their own free will and creativity
>These days people can't figure out purpose build upgrade kit compatibility without GW holding their hand
The absolute state of the people that play the hobby these days.

>>96773395
I never noticed that weird-ass hybrid termie with a tartaros head and power fist

>>96774293
Steel yourself, Iron Warrior

>>96774330
it's gifting season, this reduces the number of unopened returns

>>96774289
Sure it can be a Paragon Blade but it's still not a Thunder Hammer

>>96774406
Too bad centurions can't use a paragon blade. I'd be fine with counting it as one, but my high command is pretty much always going to be an iron father.

>>96774293
Anon. The very fact they got a shout out isnt a "fuck the iron warriors" thing. Being overlooked (and being bitter about it) is one of their core memes.
There are a LOT of conversion units in the game, being singled out for "honorable mentions" is a sign of attention, not neglect.

>>96774102
> Dude who unironically uses a 'your momma is fat' comeback says 'you look so bad right now'
Lmao. Also lmao at you being a weak little bitch

>>96774293
And I'm tired of loyalist iron warriors that are just leadbelchers drenched in nuln oil with no hazard stripes. So I guess we both don't get what we want

>>96774471
That guy also should be embarrassed. You are both children.

>>96773883
Most of those arms still work with the assault bodies, the shoulder mounted heavy weapons are probably the only ones that dont work at all

>>96774293
Have faith, Iron Warrior.

>>96773309

I would absolutely say an axe is a thunder hammer, if it was at least consistent. "Here's my AAF Blackshields, they're all ex-World Eaters, the ones with big two-handed axes have thunder hammers and the ones with two small axes have twin lightning claws" is a perfectly reasonable level of counts-as in my book as long as they don't also have an allied centurion with an axe that actually is an axe or something.

>>96769240
Considering the drop pod and mars rhino has that pattern bolter its fine. I would swap it personally because the phobos ones look great. The melee could go either way. So long as its painted.

>>96774384
This, some boomer isnt gonna know to look at new recruit and figure out what weapons work. Same with people just looking to get into the game from 40K.

>>96774645
They also aren't going to look at warcom

>>96773286
Current Tartaros really aren’t that out of scale with regular marines. If anything they just need some adjustments to have less blank space on the mini

>>96774330
Back in the day "this marine kit and that marine kit use the same general sizes, poses and ports and are therefore largely compatible" was a given. Now the opposite is true.

Players are what their environment makes them. Why would they assume that upgrades for MKVI work for MKII if theyre used to a world where every different kit is essentially entirely different from any other kit?

Right, I suspect I have buggered the tank up somewhat. The leviadon blue came on too thick apparently and ended up as essentially a matte near-black. Should I just re-prime everything silver and start again, or is there some way to salvage it?

>>96774666
>trips of truth
Sorry anon, unless terminators are at least twice as tall and thrice as wide as regular marines my wienur doesn't get hard. And that just won't do.

Tartaros more like fartaros

>>96774666
Tsrtaros Terminators were out of scale they day they came out, weedy ass motherfuckers get cucked by the Chad Mk3 they arrived with.

>>96774686
Yeesh, that looks horrible. Could try using isopropyl soaked cloth to rub off the paint, or submerging the model in it. Doing a new coat of primer over that will only make the thick paint layer underneath look even worse.

>>96774728
The thing is the paint isnt even that thick, it genuinely baffles me how it turned out this dark. The earlier attempts ended up borderline candy-coated. I dont know if I was adding way more paint thinner than I realized or if the paint was defective or what.

But yea, might just need to strip the lot and start over.

>>96768700

Didn't the darkmech on Mars kick the shit out of the Marines and the Custodes about four separate times? Marine forces aren't invincible in-narrative either, just notably stronger than most, and the current gap between the Marine list and the Militia list seems to be at about that point. There's a reason their main objective is just to keep forces vaguely intact on the objective against Marines/Mechanicum/Daemons, rather than sweep and clear.

>>96774778
Dont have any Isopropyl on hand, so I guess ill just re-prime for now, if it turns out badly ill order some and strip the lot.

>>96774690
Erm is that a primaris arm groggy?

>>96774690
>Troonscalers actually believe this

>>96774799
Reprimed. Once its dry ill try go over with a VERY thinned down Leviadon, several thin coats should hopefully keep the color blue (and metallic).

>>96774858
make sure to shake the bottle, anon.

>>96774647
>redshirt taps the printout next to the register

if they're on the webstore they'll get suggestions anyway

How did you anons go about building your army?

>>96774481
Sounds like you also lift bitch weight. Sorry for you little bro

>>96774858
Maybe it's because you are doing the 'in troon-night clad' legion that the Chad kratos tank is resisting your attempts to transition it to a gay legion

>>96775109
Buy models, paint models, play game

>>96775141
You seem obsessed with trans if you keep talking about them this much out of context. Chaser?

>>96775155
Did you have an army in mind before buying the minis? Did you only pick based on what you found cool? Did you play a game before?

>>96775141
>gay legion

But anon that's all the legions

>>96775109
I established a theme (word bearers who got the shit end of the stick because they're incompetent) and then picked models that fit that theme, albeit I got lucky in that the new models fit that theme (junker exosuits that literally got trashed until right before the heresy and the oldest suits of power armor still in use) and we got a new unit using said models very early.

>>96775109
Mine was fielding meme-y lists that got destroyed by more balanced lists, which led to converting a lot of special unites, buying two preds, and trying to get tactics down

>>96769415
>it's not a viable army list there at all
WS biker list were one of the strongest Legion list in the early HH2.0 meta
>but t4
like SA in HH1 you weren't running cheap shit you ran expensive models that coviently had solid rules. look at and biker list from a WS player from that time and you'll see a bunch of dicks.

>>96774858
Round 2 went better, although still not excellent. But feels "good enough" so ill just treat it as a learning experience. Or maybe this is just leviadon blue working as its supposed to, and I should be using some other paint. Tamiya Dark Metallic Blue looks good, if only it wasnt so fucking expensive.

>>96775817
No I dont know why its upside down.

>>96775817
g'day mate! hows life in the land down under?

>>96775841
you will never master the art of phone-fu
>captcha TA0MN. Like im damning you in a taoist way

I, Ferrus, last of the Manuses

more progress

>>96775265
Unfortunately, much like the animal rights in Animal Farm, some legions are gayer than others. Basically, if your legion has been bad touched by especially cringe, gay, or talentless authors (your ADBs, Kymes, Thorpes, etc) your legion is gayer than others (either by dint of being largely ignored by BL, or having an actually talented author give you attention, a la White Scars and Wraight).

>>96775214
> Army in mind
Yeah I picked a legion
> Did you only pick what you found cool?
I based my legion choice on what I find cool (is what legion would thematically use the shit I like the most)
> Did I play a game before
I only play with fully painted models, so no. I watched batreps to see how the game plays before I played my first game and read the rules book. I looked up the things that confused me on forums, hhg, batreps before I played my first game. Honestly if you have a high school education and just read the fucking rules no GW game is that hard, it's just the weird corner cases that can be confusing.

>>96776138
Ahh acholic BA anon is back.
I see plenty of 40gay on that table, do you paint anything that isn't Games Slopshop?

>>96776199
wouldn't you like to know gay boy ;-)

>>96776199
seriously i think the infinity general might remember me

>>96776199
i did some shatterpoint on the side too

>>96775661
>>but t4
The t4 isnt the issue compared to the 1w. Bikes had the firepower of a marine, the durability of a marine, and the cost of two marines.

>>96776199
slop you say ? i'll give you slop

>>96769183
Yes but they’re a part of the half of your army that’s really good but not focused on scoring so people whine about it. People have been really underestimating fast units this ed so if I wasn’t building heavy armored word bearers force I would abuse the shit out of it

>>96776288
My LGS offers a blanket 20% off that shit and still can't move it kek

>>96776346
The thing thats keeping me away is the potential for plastic outriders.

>>96776219
Great work on the post
>>96776234
I DO remember your PanO
>>96776288
Star Slop is trash but you did a great job
>>96776344
Rumbleslam is excellent in a pulpy, trashy kind of way.
Good on you BA anon you can really paint

>>96776358
the game is pretty fun, but i think the universe is the breaking point.
GW hit the fucking jackpot with their license and lore. no one get in 40k for the rules

>>96776346
I'm in the same situation - decided to do a heavy infantry focused word bearers force with no vehicles right before the edition that heavily buffed mechanized infantry and vehicles ;_;. Currently I'm looking at maybe backtracking from "no Infantry" to "no armored vehicles, only transports" and printing a set of rhinos

>>96776367
on bg3 topic i also got best girl

>>96776415
You painted a minthara? Do post.

>>96776392
>Good on you BA anon you can really paint
my best work is spent on dwarfs (and some aos hedonites)

>>96776412
I think "no rhinos" is a bit of a silly restriction imo. I can understand the mechanical theme of "lots of footsloggers" but rhinos are like the 3rd or 2nd most common element of a marine army.

>>96776420
lol
i already drink too much for minthy's tastes

>>96776449
God the Dread Pageant models are so incredibly baller. Did you finish the other two? I'd love to see them.

>>96776449
Man, thats some very nice fabric.

>i already drink too much for minthy's tastes
Jesus christ anon shes a drow aristocrat, do you have absinthe coursing through your veins?

>>96776494
the lad's unfinished. i spent so much time on the abs

>>96776501
>Jesus christ anon shes a drow aristocrat, do you have absinthe coursing through your veins?
minthara would kill alcoholics, no hesitation
also i did this swell guy

>>96766169 (OP)
Never ceases to amaze how redditors fail to grasp the fundamental concepts of this setting this hard

>>96776542
>minthara would kill alcoholics
Anon shes a drow aristocrat she drinks wine like gamers drink mt dew.

>also i did this swell guy
I really like the silver on the spear, looks so sharp.

>>96776503
what a shit pic
i need a better camera, or spend more time before taking pics

>>96776550
>Anon shes a drow aristocrat she drinks wine like gamers drink mt dew.
she can hold it, and i doubt she would look kindly on just any kind of addiction.
getting drunk for social event is fine, getting drunk for the sake of it is a big no-no, it's a weak thing

>>96776542
My fucking boy Vasillac.

>>96776546
TRVE however cool horsies

>>96776546
I disagree anon. The issue with those guys isnt the concept, its the execution.

something something "With the loss of their supply ports the VIIIth legion forces on Echidnus III were cut off and forced into a defensive position within the now ruined manufactorums and mining complexes within the mountains overlooking the planetary capital. Months of bitter fighting wore at defender and attacker alike, and the unrelenting bombardment had reduced terrain surrounding port Augustus to fields of muddy craters and blasted rubble. And yet still the battle continued, riding the mutated gene-beasts once used as beasts of burden by the mining clans of the planet VIIIth legion raiders would descend from the mountains, braving the no-mans land to strike at loyalist positions or raid supply-posts for the material the dwindling night lords forces so desperately needed" or whatever.

The issue isnt "space marines riding !horses", thats something that would fit just fine as a niche situational thing for whatever reason - whether as the clever solution the heroes figure out, the weird thing the traitor jobbers for that particular battle are using or even as a random thing some company did during the crusade as an example of a memorable battle. The issue is that the models just dont look super good, the horses are too small and look weird with the bolters stapled to them like that, an effort was made to have the marines look like theyre actually riding them but the poses just dont line up in some cases.

>>96776546
Other than the dumb bolters, I see no problems.

>>96776683
As much as HH is about more "universal" units and options, uniform and organized legions not yet degenerated into the ragtag mess that is later 40k, the HH is also where this rot sets in.

Theres already blackshields using autoguns because they ran out of bolters or whatever, desperate battles where both sides are fighting to the last man, bolter shell and power cell. The idea that this galactic war of attrition couldnt end up with non-standard variations, or that those variations are antithetical to the intended tone seems wrong to me. If anything "galactic empire space conquerors reduced to using horses like its WW1" feels entirely appropriate.

>>96776138
more more progress

>>96776683
The problem is, outside of the logistics of finding a horse strong enough to carry a 1500 lb space marine, sm already run faster than horses, so the entire idea is the kind of retardation you'd get more in 40k than in 30k
>>96776701
>40k holdover
Works fine there, not so much in 10k years where everyone's a retard who indulges in that sort of backwards ass behaviors

So I’m curious, and this may sound trivial-do you guys see more ten (10) man tactical or more twenty (20) man tactical squad?
I didn’t know the transport/unit rule before I assembled twenty MKVI dudes. Such as, all dudes need to be in the Rhino. I finally started building my Age of Darkness backlog.

So I’m thinking two 20 man tactical dudes.
Ten flamer MKIII dudes. Maybe they can have a Rhino? I just like the idea of flamer support squads with a dedicated transport. IF POSSIBLE

>>96776845
>outside of the logistics of finding a horse strong enough to carry a 1500 lb space marine
Space GMO horses? Obviously "literally a normal pony" doesent work and would be silly, both aesthetically and logically, but look even at your example image, those are weird genetically modified beasts vaguely shaped like horses.
>sm already run faster than horses
But they dont. Not faster than (insert weird space horse here) anyways.

SM arent faster than horses, theyre not even faster than space-dogs (m8). The universe is full of all manner of weird alien life, lots of it is very physically capable.

>>96776845
>finding a horse strong enough
If they can find a horse to carry Khan and Lion, ones for space marines should be easy enough. Seem to recall Caliban horses to be extra large and strong. Genetically engineered/mutant horses surely exist elsewhere in the galaxy.
>sm already run faster than horses
Regular horses, yes.
>so the entire idea is the kind of retardation you'd get more in 40k than in 30k
Yes in 40k we don't have space marines using lasguns and stubbers while riding in Guard tanks. There they have steady supply lines and established logistics without the need to resort to cannibalizing 3rd tier tanks for frontline duties.

>>96776894
>>96776845
>>96776546
Krieger "horses" (the models being used) only share their genetic base with Earth horses, otherwise their skins can survive all sorts of rad, chem, toxic, and caustic agents. And that's in 40k when tech sucks ass, I bet in 30k a magos with enough motivation could make them even better.

>>96776857
Sure, that all sounds possible. Bigger tactical units were more popular in 2e iirc because of apothecaries and heart of the legion, you ended up with massive 4+++ bricks which were very hard to displace.

>>96776965
I am aware anon, hence "space GMO horses"

I dont think the "30k tech is better" argument is very convincing though because its not like the legions put their tech into making better horses (they had bikes and jetbikes), but at the same time the idea that they could end up using horses in particularly desperate or extreme situations seems reasonable.

>>96776792
wish I could paint this good

or rather, apply myself to paint this good

>>96773395
Was it good?

>>96776967
That’s cool.
In your experiences, what has been the approximate point amount? 3,000ish? Have you played games less than that? Half that amount?

Such noble, much tragic, so pathos

>>96777153
2.5/3k yea, and yea smaller games are possible if rarer

>>96774795
I don't remember Loyalist marines losing anything. Loyalist primarchs do lose a couple times (Istvaan V, Yarant...and that's it? Can't say Calth, Phall, Tallarn, Beta Garmon's or Prospero #2 because all of those are "disputed")
Shadrak Meduson is defeated and dies...but he's not Liber Space Marines. He's Black shields :^)

>>96777154
Fujoshis like this unironically

>>96777154
>create giant scale of a person
>still fuck up by drawing a tiny head

>>96777179

The Raven Guard and the Custodes get their shit rocked and gain absolutely nothing from the Perditum Incursion, while the Darkmech wipe out a thousand-odd astartes opponents, compromise all the Loyalist contacts on Mars and loot a bunch of Custodes corpses and wargear to study. The Arca Silentius was more of a 1:1 draw but it did kill off nearly two hundred more Custodes, another five hundred Blood Angels and two Dark Angels destroyers full of guys.

Can possibly give the Alpha Legion the Alaxxes Nebula too, since they rocked the Space Wolves' shit until a DA star fortress materializes from nowhere right on top of them, but the outcome overall ends up in the "fuck you, no traitor wins today" territory of Calth and such.

>>96777154
What the fuck is wrong with this artist and their scaling?

>>96768353
>>every list: MoS, champion, 4 10 man tactical squads, melta kratos, rapiers, and demolishers
>> this is a lot of verity

>>96768800
based

>>96769415
>WS also have one of the best line units in the game through Expendable (2) tacticals/despoilers
are you off your meds again anon?

>>96768353
i killed a contemptor once, with 20 despoilers and a chaplain, i've been trying to replicate that amount of cool ever since

>>96777631
no mention of the jetbike deathstar? anon you're slippin

>>96777374
Calth and the whole shadow Crusade was a huge WB/WE win, the 500 world's burned and destroyed the ultramarines capacity to do anything during the entire heresy but seethe, cope and dilate. That was the mission statement of the plan. Compared it to the thramas Crusade or signus which both failed completely in their goals to destroy the blood angels or the dork angels.

>>96777631
>, 4 10 man tactical squads
tacticals? In MY HH? never!

You also forgot laser vindicators, spartans, command squads, seekers...

forgot the 4 identical havoc rhinos

plugging away at the kratos, the blue actually turned out okay

Do leviathans have a role? Their guns aren't that impressive other than the melta, and they're so slow you need a dreadnought drop pod if you want to get them into melee or use their melta or phosphex. But then you're spending enough points to buy a saturnine.

>>96777876
There was no expectation for the Night Lords to destroy the Dark Angels, they were only meant to keep them preoccupied far away from other loyalist elements and the traitor advance on Terra. Which the Night Lords successfully managed to do for a few years.

The Shadow Crusade was a hastily put-together contingency plan. The original plan had been to take the Ultramarines off the board at Calth. If not by killing them all then at least by reducing them enough that they wouldn't threaten the traitors' southern flank. But they bet too much on Calth and when the Ultramarines suffered fewer losses than expected, the Shadow Crusade was launched. And then, though it may have slowed the process, that didn't do the trick either since the Ultramarines were steadily regaining fighting strength and agency from Calth onward. By the end of the Heresy they had regenerated all their losses from Calth and were mopping the traitor positions in the galactic south.

>>96777933
Are rhinos supposed to be unique?

>>96778011
even drooling 40kcels don't take more than three copy pastes

>>96778031
Its a rhino, they have few options and the options they have are not very "context dependent", there is almost no reason not to take the same loadout on every rhino in every context, whether that be named, just with a dozer blade or whatever else.

>>takes the most meta option on every rhino every game
why are you so scared of losing anon?

>>96778011
Rhinos aren't unique. But I'm not sure one's meant to take the same demonstrably best Rhino over and over again?
Non-assault transports are finally usable, yet Rhinos seem more soulless than ever
A thousand havoc launchers everywhere

A havoc launcher might be the most optimal for points, but there's still value in some of the other options. A combi-melta lets it put out a bit of punch for one turn before it's dead. A hit from a combi melta at 6 inches is still able to kill a predator, and a rhino is usually getting close to drop troops off. And with a heavy flamer, panic is more potent than stunning.

>>96778138
>But I'm not sure one's meant to take the same demonstrably best Rhino over and over again?
If I have a loadout of rhino I think is best, whether that be naked, dozer, missile, havoc launcher, a multi-melta/flamer/whatever, why wouldnt I take it on every rhino?

I still take double combi bolters and dozer blades on every thing and they're the most potent they've ever been. 8 bolter shots for free at whatever for 10 points feels good.

>>96778177
You should. You should also take a thunder hammer on any character that can take it, that you expect him to fight 2W targets

>>96778240
yes, but thats also a different thing that illustrates the deal with rhinos.

Your centurions may have different roles and niches, your rhinoes almost certainly dont. Its not like (points aside) you would give one a dozer blade and another not, if you judge the option worth it youre taking it on one its worth taking on the others. Likewise for the missiles or whatever else.

Its like tactical squads, your loadouts for them are almost always going to be uniform, its not like you would buy one sgt AA and another not, or give one a power fist and another lightning claws. Theyre interchangeable pieces most of the time and therefore going to be equipped identically because the things they need to do are universal considerations.

The exception is of course that sometimes you have a footslogging/backline squad that might be larger because it has a DIFFERENT purpose. But thats rarer.

>>96778155
Havoc launcher is the most talked about because it's immediately easy to visualize how it would be used
Heavy flamer and combi-flamer might be stronger for the same purpose, though they can only engage the same target the Rhino's cargo is engaging, while the Havoc launcher can bother targets if opportunity
Last edition I used multi melta rhinos. The gun almost doubled the unit's cost, but it turned it into a fucking missile, and Rhinos are fast enough to turn a corner and target something valuable.
Idk if that's still valid in 3.0, I hope it is

>>96777876
>thramas Crusade
Horus never expect the NL to win he just wanted the DA tied up elsewhere

>>96778272
But you just said it, even tactical squads can have different missions (backfield vs midfield cap), and they're the very same unit entry.
Meanwhile, Rhinos are now a viable option to transport melee squads,on top of their usual role of supporting a ranged squad
I think Rhinos have more roles available to them now, and indeed they could use different guns depending on their intended role

the WAAC mind cannot comprehend a rhino with a flamer or a 15man tactical squad camping an objective

You can also customize the rhino based on what it's carrying to supplement the squad. Say you're carrying vet tacs and give the rhino a heavy flamer, now the vet tacs don't need a panic weapon because the rhino has it, and they can take a shotgunner to make a stun check. If you're just shuttling a tac squad around that isn't trying to get close to anything, then give the rhino a havoc launcher to throw stunning out. If you're moving up a melee squad that wants to get point blank, then either give it a flamer, or give it a melta to give the rhino its own mission after the troops are out. Adapt your rhino to cover the strengths and weaknesses of what it's transporting.

>>96778286
Crusade was like
>Horus was a posthuman demigod who feared no man.
>But that Jonson fella scared the crap out of him.

>>96778298
>Rhinos are now a viable option to transport melee squads,on top of their usual role of supporting a ranged squad
But both of those roles are fundamentally still the rhino driving to the same place (midfield) and doing the same thing (driving up to the enemy/objective and unloading its contents).

You can say "this tactical squad is just there to sit on a backfield objective all game and not move, so I want to maximize wounds and firepower via FOTL", but you cant evaluate which rhino is going to have a greater likelyhood of needing to use a multi melta because its near an enemy vehicle. Whether youre transporting a tactical squad or a command squad your likely threats are going to be essentially the same.

>>96778335
>the WAAC mind cannot comprehend a rhino with a flamer
Thats one of the stronger items, anon....

>>96778401
You can PRIORITIZE, you can say "well X rhino is more important because the squad is more important, so it gets upgrades too expensive for me to make universal (like a multi melta)" but thats fundamentally just prioritization, points budgets causing asymmetric listbuilding can happen with literally identical units "oh only two squads of tacs have nuncio voxes because I couldnt afford to give the third one"

>>96778374
Crusade had a lot of silliness.
>DA arrive at Triplex and find their fleet is outnumbered 3:1, judge the odds are so overwhelmingly in their favor they can forego using tactics to win the battle
>Konrad calling in 100 years' worth of favors to overwhelm the DA, clearly has them on the ropes until Lion arrives and sics some Excindio automata to dogpile Konrad while he mops the NL coalition army
>the Advex Mors incident with the Justaerin
And I mean that's not even covering BL original details of certain battles like the Sheol ambush or the "parlay" on Tsagualsa. Thramas was ridiculous.

My local store added a 30k channel to discord today because HH3 has actually gotten enough people interested in playing that an actual community is forming

I'm probably hallucinating it though, everyone knows HH3 killed 30k and no one wants to play it

>>96778910
It doesn't have to be. If anything, now you have three games at once: 2.0 vanilla, 2.0 Local Homebrew, and 3.0

In 3.0 are there any decent options for deep striking terminators besides warmongers?

>>96779091
Depending on your definition of deepstrike, dreadclaw/kharybdis

>>96779091
Depends on what kind of termies and your legion

>>96778446
Last edition I would have Seekers and Headhunters sneak their Rhino in, so I would give that a Multi-melta. Melta range turn one. But most importantly, a unit that would fire before them, so it was a chance to explode an enemy transport and expose it to the infiltrators
I guess that's still viable, even though DTs no longer have alternate deployment options? Now you can take an empty Rhino, for example

>>96779235
Infiltrating Rhino's would be kinda insane now, with the changes to disembarking. Specially ranged units have a threat range of "from one side of the board to the other side of the board" with how much distance you can cover.

>>96779317
I thinks DG Multi-melta HSS in a Rhino have 12" + 4" + 8" melta range at S9. That ought to mean something

>>96779356
Plus the 32mm base size. Disembarking distance is measured from the base now, no longer the hull of the transport vehicle.

>>96779378
Rhino base? Mmm idk. A lack of base helps when making vroom vroom noises. This ain't ligma :)

>>96779403
No, the base of the models that are disembarking. Vehicles don't have bases.
Saturnine terminators disembark almost the same distance as tartaros terminators because their bases are so fucking huge lol.

>>96779091
master o'dee?

>>96779566
Master of descent only works for units with jump packs.

>>96778475
Thramas truly was Horus using the least strategically useful legion he had as a speed bump to slow down the Dark Angels so they didn't ruin his Heresy.

>>96774666
it is the legs, they should be chonkier and slightly longer.

>>96779615
Smart move really. Dark Angels do seem to have the autistic tendency to hyper-focus, and not move on from their current engagement until all enemies have been entirely and thoroughly eradicated.

10 down, 30 to go

>>96779679
Looks nice.

>>96779572
Master of Descent rule is t1 deepstrike on his unit and is antigrav exclusive, Stratovox equipment is reserve checks for any deep striking units once he's on the board

>>96774342
The BL-art is peak slop and a mess

>>96774293
It's full of literal communists, the leader of the warhammer community page is at least. What do you expect from spiteful mutants?

Power axes or power mauls? or should i take Panoply of Old and take some ultras or space wolves axes. I am thinking about ZM blackshield Termies centurions.

Would the ranged weapons of a Saturnine Terminator fit as sponson weapons for a tank?

>>96779882
For centurions I'd pick power axes. Breaching 5+ is quite decent in combinations with the finishing blow gambit if they end up in a challenge.

>>96779919
Sure. Heavy bolters and heavy flamers already exist as sponson weapons, and those are smaller than what saturnine terminators are carrying.
The only concern would be the huge hole they'd blow into the side of the tank when the weapon overloads lol.

Any point to having a TH *and* a Paragon Blade on your Praetor?

New thread.

>>96780109
>>96780109
>>96780109

>>96779356
Not quite. You count as moving if you disembark, regardless of how far you disembark.