Thread 96786636

>black & white evokes an old-timey feel better than photo-realistic color art
>old-timey is also why irl medieval, or simply pre-20th century art, is more evocative for a game set in the distant past
>more left to the imagination
>realistic proportions and actions. No anime catboy superheroes literally flying through the air to punch a dragon 100x his size
-no faggotry

>>96786636 (OP)
>Random, subjective claim
>Followed by bunch of greentext full of even more subjective bullshit
3/10, you at least fished out a new image

>>96786636 (OP)
technical skill and quality aren't equivalent. art is about making you think and feel, the actual image is simply the tool used to inspire those reactions

>>96786636 (OP)
It's the same reason why Howard's Conan stories are more meaningful and evocative than The Wheel of Time or whatever Sandersonslop is currently being produced in American fantasy fiction.

Lord of the Rings being the exception, naturally.

>>96786636 (OP)
Who are you quoting?

>why is art by someone who has to imagine fantastic scenarios whole cloth (read: deriving from their SOVL itself more inspiring and evocative than art based incestuous derivations from decades of visual media?

Basically, a guy who has never seen a castle in real life will depict a platonic ideal of a castle more closely than someone whose "knows" what a castle looks like ( read: seen depictions of castles from people who have seen depictions of castles who have seen depictions of castles that at some point was from someone who had actually seen a real castle )

Modern fantasy is almost entirely simulacra of simulacra.

Obviously OP art is much better than all the gay art WoTC now produces. However I'd argue it's also much better than 3e art and beyond. Personally I even prefer it to 2e, though it's close to a toss up.

The reason is the early B&W art is more surreal. It has a creepy, uncanny feel than the 3e+ art does not. A big part of that is everyone is an invulnerable superhero in 3e+, but that's not all of it. It's the reason why the best depictions of Lovecraftian monsters must be hints and glimpses and abstractions, otherwise it goes into a hyper-realistic drawing of "100 foot tall squid face".

>>96786996
I don't remember that particular picture being in 4e. And the style is not representative of the 4e style at all. The 5e picture is definitely in the PHB. Why pick something obscure for one edition and something fitting for another? Makes no sense...

>>96786996
Even the freakshit was kino in OD&D

>>96786636 (OP)
>>96786636 (OP)
>old art good new art bad
Why keep preaching to the choir when everyone here already agrees with you? Why don't you make your own art that aligns with your aesthetic tastes instead of begging libtards to cater to them? Aren't right-wingers supposed to be all about personal responsibility and self-reliance?

>>96786996

Old school art imitated reality; humans and animals. 3e onwards imitates videogames.

Old school art was about swords, dungeons and fighting, you know, what most people wanted to play.

3e and 4e is about catching up with the edgy trends of the late 90s and early 2000s, and attract the attention of gamers back when games were about action; WOW, Halo, Baldur's Gate, GOW, Devil May Cry, stuff we played back in better days. 5e is about quirky friendly characters, marvel humor and their personal drama and development. Occasionally they'l have to fight a goblin, but probably that goblinkin is actually a gentlesir and the tough orc is actually quirky dude that secretly happens to love embroidery. That is, of course, if they actually play.

>>96787324
Way to pretend to miss the point.

> Oh yeah, if you don't like how we ruined fantasy with our bullshit then why don't you start your own artistic trend?

You can have an opinion without being an artist. You can't be reasonably expected to compete with a very well-established franchise. Your people ruined a good game, just like your people ruin a good country.

>>96788231
neither of these is good art
>You can have an opinion without being an artist.
NTA but your opinion is just worth less than if you were an artist
>Your people ruined a good game, just like your people ruin a good country.
investors, business major "consultants," and pencilneck accountants ruined a good game

>>96787235
It would make more sense to post the same monster, like a mindflayer, to show the evolution between edition. The Dryad in 4e for example looks like a monster not a sexy girl. Orcus looks /fit/ as hell (and kinda like a videogame boss), the mindflayer is shown with 4 variants, using an armor plate, daggers, etc. Which goes against how mindflayers have been depicted for years.

In which superhero anime do catboys fly and punch dragons? I've been out of the anime loop for a decade or so.

>>96788459

The point of the the attached pic is to show the change in artistic trends. The first roughly imitated reality and the other one went full pauldroncore and videogamey.

I do agree, it was the wealthy people the ones who fucked up everything by funding the woke movement, but it is their agents, their useful idiots, who enforce it. Think Saruman and the orcs. Masterminds and minions.

>>96786759
Why do a few people on this board have such a hardon for propagating the idea that REH was a bad writer? Conan is better than Wheel of Time or Cosmere precisely because REH is a better writer than Sanderson or Jordan.

If you go in any art gallery, they will put 0 technical skill crap up with extremely technical crap and it will all look worse than mediocre RPG art. Effort doesn't matter.

>>96786636 (OP)
>-no faggotry
Minus no faggotry means...oh well I guess I see it yeah he's got a firm hold on that butt.

>>96786636 (OP)
Back then: "I wanna draw an adventuring party, with maybe a diverse cast of characters representing the different classes and races. Ah man, like I could have 'em climbing over a castle wall. That'd be cool... Oh, and I'll base the little hobbit off of Greg's character Barfo!"

Now: "Alright, so here's a couple thousand dollars. We need a piece that represents each of the character races and classes. Here's a specific concept reference that we need you to base them off of. Also, here's the signed agreement where you've agreed to what is and isn't allowed in your artwork. Can't have anything sexual, we decide what that means... We know you're such a good artist because you came from a specific school where you were trained to do art a specific way that's considered efficient and corporately complient. Oh, and our recent test groups have shown that this character from this podcast is very popular right now. So we need you to draw them maybe making a dreamworks face... Yes because we base content off of test groups and analyzed customer data it means that we're perpetually behind on the trends rather than being innovative or ahead of the zeitgeist... Does it matter? No. Also, if you fuck this up we'll just use AI.

>>96786636 (OP)
>realistic proportions
Their heads are bloated potatoes that look to be about the size of the entire torso or bigger.

>>96790018
Centralization just leads to less creativity in general.

>>96790018
More like:

> Ok Soros just transfered you a couple thousand dollars, draw NWO propaganda to subvert all aspects of culture.

>>96786749
Good post. Art was never about technical quality but about energy and feeling.

In which superhero anime do catboys fly and punch dragons? I've been out of the anime loop for a decade or so.

>>96790201
Buddy you can just say it's tacky and lame without turning it into a nefarious global conspiracy against your personal taste.

>>96790291
Oh, didn't you hear? The white boy who literally parrots npc dialog and thinks exactly what a bunch of billionaires tell him to is actually a maverick free thinker and the main character.

>>96790291
Why can't it be both? Legitimate question

>>96790488
Because this feeling apocalyptic about culture changing has been going on for- and I am not exaggerating- for thousands of years. It's part of life. Cultural tastes and norms are not static. The good old TTRPG days you're pining for were thought to be a satanic conspiracy to groom children into devil worship and occultism. Your grandparents' were convinced your parents' hippie phase was a communist plot. And so on. This feeling of conspiracy is the same reaction. "I liked this thing, but now it's changing! Why would it change?? Someone must be doing it to hurt me!" No, WotC saw a new demographic to court. That's capitalism, baby. And you can be guaranteed in 20 years the nonbinary polycule pinkhairs are going to be freaked out about the next shift on culture and trying to make sense of why some nefarious force would change the fluffy candy colored DnD they now consider classic.

>>96790634
Forget pic to illustrate my point.

>>96790647
Where are the Assyrians today?

>>96790670
Still existing in Mesopotamia and the Levant.

>>96790699
False

>>96790708
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_people

>>96790634
>Because this feeling apocalyptic about culture changing has been going on for- and I am not exaggerating- for thousands of years
Does this apply to the rise of Trump?

>>96790732
Of course, it can apply to just about every reactionary populist movement.

>>96790737
And the people advocating against it? Also equally silly as Space King enjoyers?

>>96786636 (OP)
The only faggotry here is you pretending like all of the old art is some kind of sovlfvl awesome pice of adventure. And that modern is nothing but whatever the fuck DnD shitter posts for pride. There were awesome pieces then and there are awesome pieces now.

>>96790741
Let's skip to your point.

>>96789184
Objectively true.

>>96790291

Because that conspiracy is real. The revolution™ is being funded by billionaires and politicians. You're just the useful idiot, the goon, the minions, the orc, the foot soldier, teh fall guy who's just there to enforce the order of his overlords thinking you're fighting for a gayer world.

>>96790634
You forgot to mention that there is evidence the woke culture received funding and support from corporations, NGOs, supranational institutions, banks and politicians. Don't try to make it relative, there is an active campaign to subvert our population. It is a top down movement as opposed to grassroots, just like bankers funded communism. And we do have a right to preserve our way of life, that too is something that always existed. If we change, it has to be in our own terms, not those of the "trained marxists" or the globalist elite.

>>96790749

Can you show me a good current piece of DnD art?

>>96791530
>>96791555
So are we just ignore the billionaires that fund right wing NGOs and use Christianity and nationalism as a front?

>>96791530
Did you mean to post an image that supports your point on how this factors into ttrpgs, rather than a blurb about an obscure game you felt personally attacked by?

>>96790291
>Buddy you can just say it's tacky and lame without turning it into a nefarious global conspiracy against your personal taste.


>openly state they want to get rid of white men
>"dude lol it's a conspiracy dude the NYT says you're crazy"

>>96786636 (OP)

It's not.

>>96791781
>Quote literally proves my point about WotC responding to shifting demographics
>"Th-this is literally a white genocide conspiracy!"
I do not consent to indulging your humiliation fetish.

>>96791826
>white genocide
whoa, I thought you guys were talking about progressive enshittification of the hobby with an racial edge pointed at white guys, but you kinda escalated it there

>>96786996
Can ya zoom in on that 4e one for me? Just curious

>>96791856
Nah, this entire chain on conspiracies began with the whole NWO "culture subversion" here >>96790201 as if ttrpgs are a cornerstone of culture lmao

>>96791781
Your proof is one guy that got fuckin' fired, probably for saying that. Some conspiracy.

>>96786683
sweet, a free rapier

>>96791918
>Your proof is one guy that got fuckin' fired, probably for saying that. Some conspiracy.
When you were at the No Kings geriatric protest today, did you beg the one black man to let you kneel before him?

>>96792102
Botpost

>>96790291
I don't know why you keep doing this "benefit of the doubt" routine, it's a been more than a fucking decade. No one needed to ever make up a "cospiracy", because the people who did and are now still doing it (mostly because even if it stopped, a ton of them got hired under the premise and try to preserve themselves) were proudly and outspokenly part of these diversity push initiatives, with official information available about it everywhere. If you still peddle this point of view despite the obviously artificial and completely over the top thematic shift in media (to capture the self-evidently tiny market of minority demographics in spite of everything they already had) over the last the decade, then you are either a useful retard or baiting.

>>96792332
>>96792362
I'm not "pretending to not understand", I understand your conclusions, I just reject them as misguided for the reasons outlined here >>96790634 and the fact that the "evidence of conspiracy" that has been posted here only bolsters my point of there being a cultural shift rather that a grand conspiracy to "subvert" it.

>>96792439
>a cultural shift
gets debunked when it's pointed out that it's never to the benefit of anyone and always out of spite against a group

>>96792466
Literally every generation's boomers feel spited when the cultural shift moves on without them. That doesn't debunk anything, it just proves my point lmao

>>96792503
Well that's a damn lie. It's normal for the older generations to guide and impart wisdom to their young people, that's how it's been for thousands of years all over the world.

>>96792555
You can "guide and impart wisdom" on another generation, but that doesn't mean the newer generation is kept in cultural stasis tailored to the norms comfortable to the old generation. I literally gave examples of generational culture shocks, including one from THREE THOUSAND YEARS AGO

>>96792555
lol, modern "old people" people don't care about guiding young people, they just throw them out to fend for themselves and then get mad at them when they don't have it as easy as they did after sabotaging others ability to follow their footsteps. And then they also turn around and say how little they care because they will be dead soon anyway.

>>96791724

Media? Politically correct.
Academia? Woke
Immigration policy? Multiculturalism
Supranational organizations? Progressive.
Right-wing parties? Either zionist or red-shifted

Yeah keep telling me about the billionaires funding right-wing movements, ain't never heard of one.

>>96791826
The D&D demographics didn't change. Mostly White, straight dudes who want to play warrior slaying monsters. POC trans otherkin don't even play those games. There was no need to hammer in those ideas for money. It would have been safer to keep a low profile and just produce games about fantasy like people have done for decades without any controversies. It can only be due to social engineering.

>>96792711
>It was this specific way, but now... it's changed? This can only be from social engineering!
Or, hear me out, while you were in your bubble, WotC noticed an emerging market of "POC trans otherkin" using their product for escapism and acted accordingly.

>>96792711
Wizards has held those ideals since the early 2000s at least, you can easily read between the lines in their writing conduct rules of the time.

>>96792711
>Just going to ignore that an incredibly right wing president made one of the worlds richest men a defacto cabinet member for the first several months of his campaign.

Yes, listening to the same three podcasts and parroting the same talking points over and over again sure has made you a real renegade free thinker.

>>96792711
The only issue is that you're a thin-skinned snowflake who thinks that "people different than me existing" is a controversy.

>>96792782
Those people don't amount to a 2% of the players. And not a single one of them demanded homosexuality or diversity. People were just fine playing elves and warriors. And when they push this crap, they upset the rest of the fanbase who isn't into woke bullshit. It's not about money. It's about social engineering. Don't be a denialist and see for yourself that this isn't profitable.


>>96792789

Trump is a zionist that supports civic nationalism, meaning anyone can come in legally (Ethnic replacement of Americans but legally).

>>96792711
>Yeah keep telling me about the billionaires funding right-wing movements, ain't never heard of one.
This has to be bait. Trump's current cabinet is the collectively richest in American history. His cabinet is stocked with doners. His entire policy is based around an action plan drafted by billionaires. Literally all the people with policy making power right now are hard-line conservatives. But apparently that's cancelled out by Disney impotently tweeting a rainbow one month out of the year.

>>96792795

> if you don't wanna be indoctrinated then you'rre the actual snowflake!!!

Don't try to pull the "snowflake" when you want X cards and gay stuff at the table. WE just wanted normal games but nooo, you folks couldn't have that, you had to make it about your sexuality and identity politics, right?

>>96792810
>Don't be a denialist and see for yourself that this isn't profitable.
I went to see for myself and saw WotC raked in over a billion this year in revenue.

>>96792439
That's not specific to ttrpgs, but man, over the last decade billions upon billions and company upon company were burned on the altar of chasing a phantom audience in the every sector of entertainment industry and you wanna tell me that's a cultural shift? Usually those happen by a majority of people leaning towards a direction and industries following suit to cover demand, not by companies suddenly deciding
>our huge loyal core demographics that made us everything we are isn't good enough for us anymore, fuck them, we need that tiny minority in everything all the time instead
>ah fuck, we made a game for almost a billion of an audience that didn't exist and now have to close our studio? how could we have predicted this?!
>>96792362 is right, but I'm still going to be dumb enough to ask one question of so so many examples, before I conclude that you are full of shit - Do you believe black Aragorn was the result of a natural cultural shift?

>>96792827
You constantly repeat the same npc talking points then try to claim that anyone who disagrees with you is """indoctrinated.""""" It would be sad if it wasn't so funny.

>>96792843
The only reason why they have any profit is because they already had a decades-old franchise, which they earned by not being woke.

Ever heard of go woke, go broke? Why even risk that? Do you think tweets and non binary drows made them earn those billions?

Think for yourself. Sometimes people are bad and want to manipulate others. You're not crazy for not trusting the elites when they tell you they're the good guys.

>>96792847
People can make bad marketing decisions, "woke" or not. But given WotC's profits have increased substantially over the past several years of its "going woke" era, woke doesn't seem to be the issue here.

>>96792847
Nta that you're replying to, but what you're describing doesn't come from some insidious cultural conspiracy, it's braindead "line-must-go-up!" late stage capitalism. They already have the captive audience, GW and WotC has proven time and time again their core demographic will buy literal garbage. But maintaining a stable product isn't the goal, number must go up, so they do anything to attempt to get a wider demographic in the game/tv show/movie/whatever.

Companies don't give a single fuck about any kind of culture, they just want more money. It's *always* about money.

>>96786636 (OP)
not being LGBT is very niche now OP.

>>96792856

Repeat? You called me "snowflake" and "NPC"; two memes the right came up with for your kind. You people can't even amount to make up your own insults, save fro "chud" which lasted less than a fart in a basket. Have a thought of your own for once in your life. Why would those billionaires invest millions in promoting LGBT causes, anticapitalist movements or feminism? What's in it for them? Think for yourself.

>>96792866
>Ever heard of go woke, go broke
Yes, it's npc dialog cope. D&d and magic both made boatloads of money on """"""woke."""""

>>96792887
>Why would those billionaires invest millions in promoting LGBT causes, anticapitalist movements or feminism?
To appeal to LGBT people, feminists, and, hilariously enough, anticapitalists. All billionaires care about is money and soft power.

>>96792887
>Why would those billionaires invest millions in promoting LGBT causes, anticapitalist movements or feminism? What's in it for them?
Profits from tapping a demographic. That is literally how capitalism works. You have it backwards, you think the corpos are trying to brainwash people into being gay and feminist. They have just taken note that gays and feminists buy shit too and are marketing accordingly.

>>96792893

After Trump won, many companies like Amazon or Disney made a U-turn on their diversity agenda (or so they claim). Zuckerberg also rolled back their woke censorship.

(Source: https://www.theclinic.cl/2025/01/13/go-woke-go-broke-el-listado-de-gigantes-estadounidenses-que-desmantelan-sus-programas-de-diversidad-a-dias-del-ascenso-de-trump/)

You're just a leftist.

>>96792902
>>96792906

How did they profit from those movements? Why not invest on stock market, emerging technologies, starting businesses or even selling illegal goods and services? What's to gain in funding BLM riots? Or in opening up the borders? Shouldn't you oppose their woke movement which is inauthentic and performative, or am I asking you for too much in terms of principles and logical consistency?

>>96792933
>Or in opening up the borders?
that one's easy. more consumers and race-to-the-bottom wage competition.

>>96793008

If this were the case people would have done it since the beginning of history. Yet it only started in 1965. Why didn't they come up with that clever idea before, you know, when they enforced a strict migration policy?

Hint: See pic related

>>96792933
Have you read the fucking Facebook papers? Zuckerberg has *always* bent the knee to right-wing """"news"""" organizations who constantly fail even basic fact checking.

Also, which billionaires were finding BLM riots? Which billionaires are finding opening the border? You're such a special boy with such inside information, I'd love to see some hard numbers on this.

>>96793034

I remember when Zuckerberg censored people on facebook.

Anyway, here's the soruce on Soros. It only took a few seconds of googling, the thing is you leftists pretend to not understand. Either that or you're very ignorant.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/13/us/politics/george-soros-racial-justice-organizations.html

>>96792933
>How did they profit from those movements?
By marketing to LGBT, minorities, etc. Why is this so hard for you to get?
>But then Twump came and they all stopped!
Yeah, because he's a wild card who has proven he will fuck up the economy in the short term because he is a petty bitch. This isn't some kind of worry at a cultural pendulum swinging back, they are worried that the worlds biggest small man will pull some bullshit to make their lives harder.

>>96793045
>George Soros funds a bunch of black social justice causes
>THAT MEANS THAT HE LITERALLY FUNDED RIOTS

Hilarious that you would call other people ignorant.

>>96793057

> Noo soros had nothing to do with the actions of the people he funded!!

Again, why would he fund "black social justice" instead of the heckin' fascist capitalism that billionaires supposedly benefit from? Do you support BLM?

>>96793048
Try to hide the fact you're butthurt abut Trump. Again, shouldn't you be against woke pandering in D&D since it's just profitteering? Of course you're not. You're a leftist moving goalposts so we won't burst your bubble. You're the bad guys. You're the elite's puppet. Your worldview is wrong. Normal people are the good ones.

>>96793089
I haven't denied anything you moron. I think Trump is an obviously shitty president and I think social justice and a more egalitarian society is noble goal to work toward. I think that companies pandering to people other than white people is a value neutral position that completely misses the point of why things are shitty. You're being fed shit but you're mad that the gay dude next to you is getting the same portion of shit as you are. It's a fucking shell game. You have more in common with a black trans immigrant than you do with a cabal of billionaires, and the fact that you've let the billionaires trick you into thinking otherwise is sad. Also, you're equating all black social justice with """"BLM rioters""""" which is a false equivalency.

>>96793031
>If this were the case people would have done it since the beginning of history.
>why didn't everything happen immediately

>>96793155
You're the only one who swallowed the social justice bullshit funded by those billionaires. You're the useful idiot. I have nothing in common with a black trans, in fact those people would kill me if they could.

>>96790647
Wow, so many falsehoods in one image! Nice!
There is no tablet with that specific complaint. That quote comes from the 1950s ffs. And the date makes no sense because the Assyrian empire wasn't a thing at that time!

>>96792711
You don't hear much with dicks in your ears, nogames tard.

>>96786996
You know, for all 5e's flaws I actually like the African fighter dude. Gives the vibe of more "civilized" pre-modern sub-saharan cultures like Imperial Ethiopia and "Slaver Kingdom"-era Angola. Very underutilized aesthetic.

>>96793231
>Mmmmmm yes lick lick lick I love the taste of the boot on my neck, as long as they own the libs I'm happy to give away all my rights yum yum yum yum!

>>96786636 (OP)
Traditional games?

>>96786636 (OP)
>realistic proportions
Wat That elf(?) on the left looks like fucking Rocky Dennis.

NOOOOO!!! SAAR, SAAR!!! THE JEWS ARE TAKING OUT ALL THE SEXY WHITE WOMEN FROM OUR GAMES!!! WE MUST WHINE ABOUT IT ON 4CHAN BROTHER BECAUSE WE ARE TOO LAZY AND TALENTLESS TO DO ANYTHING!!! DO NOT REDEEM!!!