Thread 96819107

What are some other /tg/ truth nukes?

>>96819107 (OP)
Incompetence generally being the downfall of other companies is why gw stays on top.

But I'm not having fun unless I powergame and get bigger numbers than the other players!

>>96819107 (OP)
-Tieflings are cool and have interesting lore.

-WotC making pro-LGBT art doesn't take away from anyone's games.

-Men playing as women is perfectly fine and is weird for others to care.

-Characters having intricate backstories makes the game more interesting.

-I like 5E, and no, I'm not learning a new system. This is okay.

>>96819107 (OP)
Powergaming sucks for the same reasons taking steroids to win pickup basketball games would suck.
Expecting players to explain and coherently choose their arguments in a dialogue scene is the same as expecting them to explain and coherently choose actions in combat.
Miniatures should be minimal and functional. Dry erase standees and mats blow painted models out of the water.

>>96819147
holy based.

>>96819107 (OP)
System Mastery and Character Optimization is an objective good for the purposes of TRPGs as power fantasy. The only time it ever causes problems is when it is a single player doing it without assisting the other players's builds.

>>96819147
based

>>96819129
unironically based

>>96819147
The first four are based
The fifth is bad taste but said in a based way so I'll give it a pass

>>96819147
>-WotC making pro-LGBT art doesn't take away from anyone's games.

This is the only one I disagree with but moreso because I hate rainbow capitalism and corpos exploiting LGBT

Dungeons and Dragons 4th edition is a good game and the most new-dm friendly edition they ever released.

Nope I win every game every time

>>96819107 (OP)
Powergaming isn't a problem in systems that were actually playtested.

>>96819147
>Tieflings are cool and have interesting lore.
False.
The truth is that you personally think they're cool and you are personally interested in their lore; these things do not change their state of being.

>WotC making pro-LGBT art doesn't take away from anyone's games.
Technical truth that ignores root issues, including but not limited to rampant, unabashed hypocrisy.

>Men playing as women is perfectly fine and is weird for others to care.
*it is weird
But true. Roleplaying is about one deciding the character and behavior of someone who isn't oneself, after all.

>Characters having intricate backstories makes the game more interesting.
False.
The truth is you are personally interested in backstories; this does not change its state of being.
Not only that, but too much focus on backstory can easily get in the way of playing a game.

>I like 5E, and no, I'm not learning a new system. This is okay.
Technical truth.
It is completely okay for a person to eat shit too, but it isn't okay for them to insist it's healthy to any degree or to suggest others do the same.

>>96819648
False. My opinion on all things is absolute, objective truth, and my authority is supreme.

>le TRVTH NVKE
How about a /tg/ conspiracy theory?

I believe that 4th edition D&D was a New Coke gambit.

If WotC released 5th Ed after ~10 years of 3rd, there'd be a general outcry from their paypig fans. It'd hardly sell, and they wanted a mass injection of new blood since much of the "core" audience is aging out. I believe they tested the mechanics through SW: Saga Edition and saw how poorly it sold and was received. Since 5th was already finished (or mostly done) by this time, the higher ups commissioned the dogshit 4th Ed in line with eSports design to foster a schism.

In order to control the outflow of said schism, Paizo was hired as controlled opposition: Pathfinder presents a false "alternative" with so many new options, a new campaign world, etc with content familiar enough that many gamers shifted over to continue thier FR, Eberron, or homebrew campaigns and dubbing it "3.75 Ed." This kept the target audience engaged with the product by proxy, if even through manufactured circumstances. (I also think that Joe Goodman may have caught wise and pushed out DCC to hook the remainder of the older demographic)

By the time people started to poke holes in Pathfinder's design philosophy or Paizo's content glut – Lo and Behold – 5th Edition drops and it sells well. Its pushed by mainstream media, ropes in hordes of normies, failed normies, and useful idiots, and the parent companies of the "World's Greatest Roleplaying Game™" make a mint to pad the loss of dying boomers and disaffected fans.

>>96819854
I believe this but I think paizo was an unexpected hurdle for wotc and not in on it

>>96819107 (OP)
Losing can still be fun.

>>96819854
Eh. I think that 4E started life as a skirmish game side product but got crowbar'd into being a new edition of D&D to compete with Pathfinder and that the VTT and possible vidya was part of their larger plans but the lukewarm reception metaphorically killed the vidya and then the lead designer literally killed the VTT so they ended up putting 4E on life support while keeping 5E in the oven for a substantially longer period of time.

Even then I don't think that 5E would have exploded the way it did without the massive pop culture bump from Stranger Things.

>>96819147
>Tieflings are cool and have interesting lore.
They used to, but no one actually roleplays one as they really would be, on the player or DM side. So now it's basically a fuckin satyr. Just another freakshit race with no actual depth that is explore. It's makeup. It's a costume.
>WotC making pro-LGBT art doesn't take away from anyone's games.
Yes it does because they define the flavor and culture of the game, as well as attracting new people to the hobby. So if you ever want to recruit a new player, the new freakshit fag players are diluting the pool of potential options.
>Men playing as women is perfectly fine and is weird for others to care.
Not really. Most of them do a terrible job of it and it's cringe. "It's weird for others to care" well it's weird for you to do it in the first place. This is a tabletop hobby you participate in with other people, it involves interacting with other people. This isn't your fucking MUH PRIVATE PROPERTY fauxbertarian pissing contest.
>Characters having intricate backstories makes the game more interesting.
When they actually come up, yeah. Otherwise it's just slop that pisses off the DM. Also there are limits to what should be allowed in backstories.
>I like 5E, and no, I'm not learning a new system. This is okay.
That's fine. It's not even that bad of a system honestly.

>>96819324
>Dungeons and Dragons 4th edition is a good game
Sure
>and the most new-dm friendly edition they ever released.
That would be Basic Expert, commonly know as B/X.

>>96819616
Objectively wrong and your criteria for "actually playtested" is guaranteed some circular logic bullshit. You don't actually understand game design if you think this. Protip: every time you add an option to a game, there's an exponential effect on the number of potential ability combos that will result in some overpowered shit. You can mitigate this with game design strictures that prevent such synergies, but at the end of the day "wahh they didn't playtest it enough" is just retarded.

>>96819107 (OP)
How is this a truth nuke? It's like the most basic concept of playing make believe.

>>96819929
You forgot Covid

>>96819854
>since much of the "core" audience is aging out.
My dad still plays D&D 3.5 in his late 60s and bought every single book, spending more money on WotC products than most 5e trannies ever will.

>>96819147
wrong
wrong
very wrong
ok
eh

>>96819974
>Not really. Most of them do a terrible job of it and it's cringe. "It's weird for others to care" well it's weird for you to do it in the first place.

NTA but ironically every time Ive met a dude rping a female character at a table it's like, completely fucking grounded and normal, save maybe a handful of cheesy, comedic flirting with an NPC.
Genuinely? Women roleplaying/playing male characters has been WAY more creepy/uncomfortable/magical realm. Every time I've met a female roleplaying a male it's so unbelievably obvious it's just an avatar of a fetish/kink/character they want to fuck. Always seems to be "I Can Fix Him" types too.
For all the shitty stereotypes of dudes being creeps, it's kinda wild I never see women get shit for it when they're arguably worse.

>>96820083
women should not be playing the game to begin with

>>96819147
Lore is worthless, especially if it's never acted on. Otherwise, Tieflings are just cosmetic sparkledogs for theater kids.

Contemporary LGBT activism is out of place in D&D and WotC doing some rainbow capitalism while they mistreat their employees and price gouge their customers is actually especially objectionable.

This is only a problem if you play with people who cannot separate fantasy from reality.

Intricate backstories are fine, as long as they don't override the game because a player with main character syndrome expects top priority over the rest of the table.

It is a problem, but only if you feel the need to inflict yourself on the rest of the hobby and expect your opinions and myopic understanding of the hobby to be treated as wholly valid.

>>96819147
BASED

>>96819107 (OP)
Games have become less simulationist even though calculators have become easier to use (meaning that players who think math takes too long have less of an excuse).

Also, a roleplaying game is a game in which the players make decisions as though they were a certain character (not as if they were a player), and the world accurately responds to them (rather than responding in the way which would be the most cool or fun for everyone).

>>96819107 (OP)
>Conan, what is best in life?
>To crush your enemies, to drive they / them before you, and to hear the lamentations of their womyn!

>>96819983
No, you actually don't understand game design. Balanced systems exist, and powergaming isn't a problem in them, so you're wrong.

>>96819854
>>96819929
>>96819929

The truth is a bit stupider.

>3.5 was winding down each new product was selling worse than the last.
>Hasbro decides to no longer treat WotC as a single brand so MtG's massive profits would no longer be covering for D&D's lesser profits.
>WotC talks Hasbro Executives into letting them go all in on a new online integrated edition of D&D to go with their "Gleemax" gamer social networking project. promising to turn D&D into a "major brand" like MtG, Monopoly, Transfomers etc
>WotC revokes the Dragon and Dungeon magazine licenses forcing Piazo to start publishing their popular Adventure Paths as 3rd parties with the OGL.
>WotC announces D&D 4e, the Dragon and Dungeon magazines will now be part of a monthly website subscription and there will be a VTT with that subscription.
>4e ads rely on cringe humor and insulting the existing playerbase. playerbase starts to crack
>GSL is revealed and pretty much no 3rd party publisher wants anything to do with it. Paizo makes Pathfinder so that their APs have an actively published game to support. part of the playerbase breaks off to follow Paizo.
>4e launches and does pretty good but not "major brands" good
>Gleemax fails due to lack of popularity
>VTT cancelled due to murder suicide
>Hasbro starts pruning the D&D team over the next year and a half for "low performance" until Mike Mearls ends up in charge. Mearls hates 4e.
>Mearls talks the Hasbro executives into letting him do Essentials.
>Essentials fails to draw back those who left and at the same time upset the existing 4e players.
>4e canned shortly after

To be continued...

>>96819107 (OP)
>muh everybody is a winner
D&D has an objective score-tracking mechanism: lifetime GP extracted from the Dungeon, otherwise known as XP. The abandonment of this principle is the direct cause of the enshittification of D&D.

>>96820488
What do you win?

>>96820464

5e's story

>Mearls brown-noses the Hasbro into letting him have another chance.
>Mearls produces his 5e with a skeleton crew.
>5e releases doing ok, but not enough to actually be anything more than a minor brand
>5e more or less floats along
>Stranger Things draws normie attention to D&D, 5e has it's first resurgence in 2016, 2 years after release
>5e team starts publishing more stuff pandering more and more to the "modern audience"
>Covid happens
>5e has it's second resurgence due to everyone being stuck at home
>Hasbro now thinks D&D is a major brand due to targeting the "modern audience" rather than it being a temporary surge due to Covid
>starts developing 5.5e targeting the "modern audience"
>5.5e releases targeting the "modern audience" and isn't very successful

>>96820495
The most important prize of all: bragging rights.

So nothing, then.

“I have been accused of being a nasty, old, sexist-male Chauvinist-pig, for the wording in D&D isn’t what it should be. There should be more emphasis on the female role, more non-gender names, and so forth. I thought perhaps these folks were right and considered adding women in the ‘Raping and Pillaging" section, in the ‘Whorses and Tavern Wenches’ chapter, the special magical part of dealing with ‘Hags and Crones’, and thought of perhaps adding and appendix of ‘Medieval Harems, Slave Girls and Going Viking’. Damn right I am a sexist. It doesn’t matter to me if women gets paid as much as men, get jobs traditionally male, and shower in the men’s locker room. They can jolly well stay away from war-gaming in droves for all I care. I’ve seen many a good wargame and wargamer spoiled thanks to the fair sex. I’ll detail that if anyone wishes.”

-Gary Gygax

>it's not REAL winning if I don't get prizes!
What are you even doing on this board?

Yeah, it isn't. If you don't win anything, there are no winners. So Moldvay was right, and you are wrong.

>>96820524
Gygax was pretty firm in his stance that trying to bring girls into wargaming and tabletop RPGs was a dumb fuck idea and a waste of resources because the hobby doesn't appeal to women on a fundamental level.

>>96820528
>hrrrm, well AKSHUALLY, we're not playing FOR anything, so you didn't really win
Back to improv theatre with you.

>>96820537
Yeah, Gygax was pretty retarded when it came to that and so are the faggots who agree with him.

>>96820524
>t. retard who posts pics of shirtless men because his a faggot.

>>96820719
I disagree.
Girls and women who get into wargaming and TTRPGs like them for the be same reason that boys and men like them. Making Warhammer "for girls" appeals to absolutely nobody.
He was also right that it isn't popular with girls, it's a niche hobby even among boys.

>A DM only rolls the dice because of the noise they make,
-Gary Gygax

>>96819271
>I hate rainbow capitalism and corpos exploiting LGBT
This, but for woke reasons.

>>96820083
unironically kinda? I've seen some real weird men rping women
seen a lot more women rp as horned up fuckboys. Probably cus its seen as fine and harmless fun

>>96819107 (OP)
>What are some other /tg/ truth nukes?

-Pig Orcs are the actual solution to everything concerning Orcs.
-Gold as Experience Points is the better option.
-Race as a Class is actually a really interesting OSR concept that should be brought back and tooled around with.
-You can't make cooking/fishing interesting in tabletop. Fuck off. Go play a video game.
-You *should* be stealing ideas from pop-culture. This is typically only an issue because people's tastes in media fucking suck.
-People originally warmed up to LGBT/Queer content in the past because it was handled with whimsy. You were meeting people where they were comfortable. This changed because it's turned into a literal morality check.
-Men like D&D. Women like Soap Operas. There's nothing wrong with either of those things, but one can't be both.

>>96821071
The thing of it is that nowadays most women who have the right kind of brain chemistry to enjoy it for what it is are coming out as trans.

>>96819107 (OP)
Alright so why do they keep trying to make it lame as in cannot walk and gay as in faggoty?

>>96819147
Tieflings are only interesting in settings where they have to hide their nature. If nobody gives a shit, then they're no more interesting than humans. Their lore is "I've got horns and purple skin because of my demon ancestry."

The art does affect the kind of people the game attracts. If DND art were all Hello Kitty themed, you'd have a hard time finding a group of serious adult players. If it were Nazi themed, you'd have a hard time finding a game at all.

Men playing as women is weird if they do it consistently. I'd have questions if a friend of mine did it.

PCs having their own personal quests is fine and can add to the game. When the party helps a member sort out their shit, it can be fun.

I'm not a big fan of 5E.

>>96819147
Based, imagine playing anything other than THE world's greatest roleplaying game

>>96820719
If Gygax was wrong, why did it take a quarter-century's worth of dumbing down TTRPGs, making them focus more on storytelling than gameplay, changing lore, adding obligatory DEI, gaslighting, and damage control for even a few women to become "interested" (and only now just for trend chasing/grifting/getting male attention, not for any sort of gameplay whatsoever)?

>>96823107
That a lot a words to tell everyone that you are retarded, underage and nogames.

>>96823107
It didn't. Shit, I learned how THAC0 worked from my DMs mom.

>>96820543
Yes, retard. That's what winning means.

>>96820719
If you're born male you're a man.

>>96821071
Women don't genuinely enjoy anything. Everything they do, they only do if they believe it will improve their social capital.

>>96824985
That sounds like projection, retard.

>>96825000
By you, yeah.

>>96825006
Nope as I can enjoy things (like tabletop games) and don't get mad at people who will have zero effect on me. Sadly it seems the same can't be said about you.

>>96823125
>>96823234
>gaslighting autogynephile
kek ywnbaw

>>96825043
>t. retarded nogames

>>96824981
Being butthurt about trannies is not going to make you any less of a nogames, retard.

>>96825082
You're male :)

>>96825068
you can keep spamming that projection every day in every thread but you'll still never be a woman

>>96825087
>>96825091
Yes, you are a retard. You can stop posting now.

>>96825126
There are at least three different people calling you a retarded autogynephile. Ask your buddy the janny when he gets back from his goon shesh and answers your trauma tantrum on discord. Faggot

>>96819974
Sniveling little faggot

>>96825126
Hi fish!

>>96819107 (OP)
Backstory longer than 3 sentences is at best an unnecessary burden.
Players who can't create a personality and living character through play are likewise a burden.

>>96825155
It just looks like you have three brain cells.
>>96825164
?

>>96819147
Tell me you're a disease ridden faggot without actually telling me.

>>96825176
>Implying I cant make a detailed backstory that naturally drives how the character develops through play.

I swear to god none of you have ever played a TTRPG with a living, breathing, human being or just treat TTRPGs as wargames.

>>96825180
Good job finding yourself.

>>96825126
You're male :)

>>96825267
No u and your fish.

>>96825282
>everyone who disagrees with me is a tranny.

>>96825247
I'm not implying it. I'm directly stating it. You can't.

>>96825290
the term is autogynephile

>>96825343
You absolutely can.
I've done it many times.
My friends have done it many times.
People I met through PUGs who later became friends have done it many times.

You're so obviously a bitter, crusty little nogames goblin.

>>96821114
i respect this boomer but fuck that shit i roll my dice in the open

>>96819107 (OP)
I disagree.
The G in RPG stand for "Game" and for game being a game there must be rules and there must be win condition.
What makes TTRPGs different from other tabletop games is that generally, it's Players vs System thing and DM/referee is there to be rule arbiter and deal with any unclear situations.
While theatrics can be encouraged and social interactions are good to some extend, TTRPG should not evolve into improv theater or bar meeting with extra steps.

>>96825378
The term for you is stupid nogames.

>>96825402
>While theatrics can be encouraged and social interactions are good to some extend, TTRPG should not evolve into improv theater or bar meeting with extra steps.
I'm getting really sick and tired of grognards who think this is what roleplay/narrative focused players want when the reality couldn't be farther from the truth

>>96819128
Or, 40k is good

>>96819147
Who let you out of Bluesky?

>>96819147
Based chill guy making tourists seethe

>>96825421
It is the truth, which is why you replied, because you're furious

>>96825495
>Retarded hyperbolic statement
>"That statement is retarded and hyperbolic"
>LOLUMADBRO?

Thank you for reminding me why I stopped using this board. It's all just feds, jeets, and shitposters.

lol mad

>>96825398
Nah, you're just obviously a storyshitter.

Thank you all for your (You)s, but my mind is made up on the matter.

>>96819875
If PF 1e was a direct response to the premature abandonment of 3e design philosophy, why would PF 2e follow the 5e design philosophy so closely?

>>96819929
Or as a cover for the 4e-5e bait and switch.

>>96820039
Good for him. Still, boomers are mostly retired and Gen X is looking pension in the face. By injecting normie Millennial interest, they have a longer targeted investment built in. (or at least that's how corporate business no-games tend to think)

>>96820464
The corporations involved had foreknowledge of things like Covid at least a decade in advance. All of this is more likely to me to be some mass deception for profits and control than a reaction to legitimate shortcomings. Businesses will stage the failures of products and programs all the time, if it means a more favorable long-term outcome.

>>96825421
>I'm getting really sick and tired
better re-up your aids medication

>>96819147
This is delicious bait

>>96825158
cunt

>>96820537
Then why are there so many women today who are interested in it?

>>96826338
There are none, see above.

>>96825402
>there must be win condition
I think not playing with (You) would be one way of rapidly scoring victory points.

>>96826376
He talking about women not brains in your head.

>>96827169
you're male :)

>>96827178
You are a dumb nogames fag.

>>96827180
you're male :)

>>96827189
I play tabletop games unlike you.

>>96827197
you're male :)

you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male you're male :)

>>96819147
worst opinions i’ve seen in some time
we really should have some kind of quality control on people posting gigachad on decidedly non-chad posts

>>96827391
huh?

>>96819107 (OP)
OSR is for chuds.

>>96826338
The majority of girls only play online.
The girls who play at IRL and public (FLGS, Cons, Organized Play) is very low.

WotC said 40% of their player base tracking VTT is women. So the whole "Girls play RPGs" too is very much relying on online accounts being honest about being female and that's one helluva leap of faith.

>>96826338
>uh, D&D demographics is 10% women and 7% MtF trannies, it's sexist to say that ttrpgs don't appeal to women!

>>96828651
Hilariously, Gygax answered that question in his day as well.
It amounts to girls and women show some interest in the hobby but abandon it after a few months at best.

Essentially, women are trying the hobby but most don't stick with it too long. Those that do stick with it like it for the same reason men do. Catering to the crowd that will flake is just asking to lose money.

This isn't shocking. It's what happens pretty much 100% the time any kind of company tries to appeal to an outside market. They might get some extra cash initially, but those new buyers lose interest fast and they frequently shit on their bread and butter audience when chasing the new one so the entire brand is worse off than when it decided to chase metrics in the first place.

>>96827391
Rent free :3

>>96819147

Just because you posted a picture of a chad doesn't mean you're right.

> Tieflings are freakshit
> WOTC making leftist content is political propaganda coopting a franchise
> Men playing as women is usually weird fetishes
> Backstories are practically irrelevant once the game starts
> Stay in 5e, you belong there.

picrel is your party

>>96828838
looks like a fun party. would adventure with

>>96828958

>no risk because having a character die is one of their triggers and they did not CONSENT to that
> freakshit furry foot fetish (unintended alliteration)
> quirky tough guys
> lighthearted marvel humor
> freaking eberron
> character romance
> not a single human

>>96820497
You left out how Critical Role lured in theater kids and normies in 2017-19 as heavily as it did. Or how WizBro shat the bed by trying to turn D&D into a lifestyle brand, then attempting to pull the OGL. The normies didn't care so much about that, but the most entrenched and aware players did - and they're most of the DMs out there. And even before that blunder, WotC had made not of how bad 5E was at on-boarding DMs.

I'd say the biggest problem with 5.5/2024e is its even less of an iteration than 3.5 was, so most players didn't see any reason to purchase it and just kept playing with their 5E PHB + Tasha's.

>>96828789
you're male :)

>>96828992
like I said, looks fun and I'd adventure with them. gonna shit yourself and die alone? lol

>>96830381
Nah :3c

>>96830493
you're male :)

>>96828049
I can believe that kind of skew, DESU. Anecdotal, I know, but at the University gaming society I work with they got nearly parity in terms of gender for first timers over the Freshers period. Within a month, it would be 80-90 percent male again. But over COVID we kept our female members at a very high rate.
I have my own theories as to why that is (to cut a long story short: smell), but it definitely held true. Now we find that we're nearly back to the old ways.

>>96828789

Leftists are incapable of coming up with anything new. They can only take what right-wingers create. D&D or memes, it's the same.

BTW; you're not a woman, no one thinks you're a woman

>>96830387
Have fun playing romance stories but don't forget to take your hormones

>>96828992
You know, I actually like Eberron in and of itself. It does attract a certain element, though.

>>96830563
Still no rent in sight >:3

>>96830791
>no one thinks you're a woman
Wrong! I do! You're a silly little guy for not thinking about that one <3

>>96819854
>pic
That's just Saul Alinsky.

>>96830932

No you don't, you're just pretending because you hate conservatives. No more attention for you.

Back to truth nukes, here's one good piece of advice.

>>96831217
Uhm, hate my father specifically thank you very much. If you're going to gaslight me at least get your facts straight.

Also good truth nuke, you're cool, if you didn't hate me I'd love to be in a game with you

>>96819147
>-WotC making pro-LGBT art doesn't take away from anyone's games.
Any space dedicated to LGBTQ themes is a space not used for cool fantasy stuff.

>>96821114
Claimed to be cited from a convention, though no one can agree on which, and totally opposite to basically everything he ever wrote and the experience of the people who played under him including his kids.
One of those well-known fake quotes.

>>96831316
What about LGBT cool fantasy stuff?

>>96831472
Impossible for current year WotC

>>96828716
>It amounts to girls and women show some interest in the hobby but abandon it after a few months at best
The sample size, specifically being women in Gary's games. So we're looking at marketers calla "skill issue" on Mr. Gygax's part.

>>96831535
>the guy who invented the game and was running it for decades and grew the brand into a household name doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to market penetration and demographics
the sheer arrogance of random retards online
Even WoTC doesn't say "our playbase has a substantial amount of gays, women, and colored people so we are marketing to them. heterosexual white males aren't our primary demographic anymore.". No, it's just "D&D is for everyone" because a non-zero amount of non-heterosexual white males play the game and they hope that will make them more money.

>>96823107
Someone's too much of an underage faggot to remember WoD.

>>96825960
PF2e doesn't follow 5E's design philosophy at all. It's much closer to 4E's.

>>96831535
So if based on that sample size, there were at least some women who were interested in the game as it was, then why is there a reason to change the game for the people who lost interest?

If they just want money from women, nobody is stopping them from publishing mind flayer romance novels.

>>96831602
>He thinks WoD has any system based gameplay

>>96830791
lol furious

>>96830917
you're male :)

>>96831535
Nope, women have fundamentally different preferences as a result of biology.

>>96831557
Yes, obviously. Gygax didn't know anything about marketing and did not have any significant research department.

>>96831790
>erm he did't have a human resources department so how did he hire any employees?
type shit

>>96831472
The dream solution
>>96831487
Sadly true

>>96830636
Everyone, including women, flocked to table top for some kind of social outlet during COVID because most social shit was shutdown. Well, in more liberal areas (which includes most major cities). Conservative areas shut down for less than a month. Hilariously there was no excess mortality rates in either states that were wide open or closed down hard. Turned out living like hermits for all that time didn't do shit except fuck up the economy and mental health of the world at large.

>>96831557
>No, it's just "D&D is for everyone" because a non-zero amount of non-heterosexual white males play the game and they hope that will make them more money.

It is more that their incredibly biased consultants have told them that the white heterosexual male customer base has pretty much reached maximum saturation and that they need to target a more "diverse" audience to further expand the customer base so they can make more money. Forgetting the adage "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush," they threw away the costumer base they had and then chased after the very loud birds in the bushes.

>>96831818
No, what I said was "Gygax didn't know anything about marketing and did not have any significant research department." Which is correct.

>>96821220
>Gold as Experience Points is the better option.

I cargo culted Gold as Experience into my homebrew and ended up really liking it.

>Race as a Class is actually a really interesting OSR concept that should be brought back and tooled around with.

Coming from 3.5, Race as Class seemed completely insane, but I'm pleasantly surprised by how much sense it makes. I'm trying to integrate it into my homebrew.

>>96833707
did you really think anyone would buy this? kek

>>96833707
I've had the race as class conversation with players from later editions.
>WHy can't me be elven thief man?
ELves can do everything a thief can except better via magic. They don't need to climb a wall. The'll just cast levitate and go right over it. Or fly.
>pick pockets
Sleep spell a mofo and empty those pockets.
>Indiana Jones trap fall
Cast Gaseous Form and just roll on through it. Or teleport.
One of my better players in b/x has played an Elf well for the better part of 4 years. Uses pretty much nothing but utility spells.

>>96834099
No. I'll be an elf and a thief and I won't use magic.

>>96834099
>>WHy can't me be elven thief man?
>ELves can do everything a thief can except better via magic. They don't need to climb a wall. The'll just cast levitate and go right over it. Or fly.

Or spiderclimb. An "Elven Thief" racial class would in theory blend thief/rogue abilities with those of a magic-user.

>>96819147
Thank you for this, I am trans

An elf doesn't have to be a magic user.

>>96819107 (OP)
>D&D has no losers or winners

Absolutely objectively false, Moldway is a fucking retard and knows nothing about D&D. D&D has VERY CLEAR win and loss conditions. You win if you beat the adventure your DM has prepared. You lose if you die. That's it. If you argue against this you're an idiot.
>b-b-but Moldway designed-!
Yes, I know. He still doesn't know shit about the game.
>b-b-but isn't the real objective to have fun?
No. That's separate. Having fun doesn't make you a winner, and winning doesn't necessarily mean you had fun. The objective of the game is to win, to beat the adventure your DM prepared and that's it. That's the fucking goal.

>>96821118
Pandering commercialism is almost always obvious and disingenuous.

>>96831616
>vidya style progressions
>"easy math"
>joke races
>true Evil apologist shit
>drama focus
>bland, soulless art changes
>curated Appendix N
>trying to shove as many feckless 30-somethings into the community as possible because their 12-year-olds are onto our scam business
>LGBTQIABBQAFMBELRSSGSTICKWITHTRIGGERANDYOULLGETHOMEALIVE
>"Lifestyle"
The hell it ain't.

>>96838365
You're the kind of person who shouldn't have a voice in public conversation.
I'm guessing nobody's really told you this before, but it's for the best that you know.

Age of Sigmar is utterly superior to The World That Was in every meaningful way, and the delusion that this is not the case stems exclusively from TOW having better video games.

>>96819107 (OP)
Giantitp and other members of the 3.5e community will disagree, but not every single splatbook needs to be used in your setting.
>Captcha: MRA82

>>96819107 (OP)
>hey lets not play the game by the rules lol whatever its a imagination game
>WHY DoES THIS GAME SUCK SO MUCH FUCK I HATE DND!

>>96831487
The answer is destroy evil. Paladin's job is not to honour love.

>>96831487
>paladin must choose between killing demons and killing homosexuals

>>96819147
based for everything except the first one but I can agree to disagree

>>96830387
going to dilate when I bring a full blown third reich officer to the session faggot?

>>96820083
Women misunderstand men at least as much as men do women. If a woman was transported into a man's body and tried to act natural everyone would think they were gay in like 3 hours. If you did the same thing in reverse there's be a split where men like the male-piloted girl possibly more than they would a normal woman, but women increasingly think they're a bitch for not knowing how to play their weird subtext games or be nice in the exact right fawning way.

>>96819129
Ah, i see you're also a 3e enjoyer.

>>96829001
Did Tasha's add anything besides the extra cucked take on races?

>>96828651
>>96828716
>I agree with Gygax on this topic because shit I heard from fellow nogames tards.

>>96831557
>>96832759
>the sheer arrogance of random retards online
As shown by your posts.

>>96831487
The paladin looks badass. Love the helmet, as weird as it looks.

Remember, D&D is the worst game ever made.

>>96848125
Thanks for the reminder that you are too stupid to play any tabletop game.

the troon shows up right on schedule lul

>>96848135
Yeah, we can see you are here.

You'll reply again because you're furious and male :)

>>96820039
If somebody is talking in generalities and you respond by talking about an individual, you're retarded

>>96819107 (OP)
>What are some other /tg/ truth nukes?
Pre-essentials 4e was the best version of WotC D&D and nothing comes close.

>>96823107
Based, few talk about this
I've never seen a woman play /osr/ type games, for example

>>96846838
In my experience, at least through TTRPGs, men concede/accept they don't understand how women think, so they just pilot the female character like a pretty regular person, aside from being maybe being a little bit more vain and catty when it can be used to their advantage.
With women there is like this weird insistence that they know how men think and operate. There's this weird sense of smugness that they have the opposite sex all figured out without ever realizing they have created an incredibly fake and borderline insulting stereotype.
It's funny to see people online shit on men for nonsense like "She breasted boobily" and clowning on them for thinking they "understand women" but it's so much worse the other way around. And it's never really called put or criticized because men either don't notice, don't care, or it gets handwaved as the women being le quirky silly wholesome chungus.

I by no means think there AREN'T dudes who make Female Magical Realm PCs, I have just personally experienced the inverse.

The GM should allow odd characters sometimes since even in reality weird shit was possible.

>>96850407
You should try playing tabletop game and you may see that.

>>96850407
Women prefer stories. Fluff>Crunch. If they can affect the story, they like it even better - you'll get more play from a woman playing a mischievous but well meaning sprite than you will a pretty warrior.

>>96819107 (OP)
You want a truth nuke? The way to make D&D actually work is to stop treating it like a superhero game and actually engage with the questions the fiction raises, which will bring you closer to the actual intended design of the game.

You've found 5000 gold in a dungeon. How much does that weigh? How do you carry it out? Can you carry it out? What's your actually carry capacity and what are the rules for being overencumbered. Do the bookkeeping.

But more than that, what is the nature of the dungeon? Why is it there? What did it used to be? Why did monsters move in? Why hasn't anyone else cleared it out yet? Answer the questions.

Don't stop there! Your characters... Who the fuck are they? Even a level 1 fighter has some training. Who trained your fighter? Why aren't they still training? Why did they venture out while still so inexperienced? Why do they need money and what do they expect to do with it? Trained fighters are often soldiers. Was your character going to be a soldier? What army were they going to join? What Lord, if any, were they or did they swear allegiance to? Do they still serve that lord? If not, then why? What are the consequences that may come of that?

This goes for Wizards, Bards, Monks, Warlocks, Druids, and so on, also. Where did they learn to do what they do? Why aren't they still there? Are they ever going to return? Will there be trouble if they don't? Is anyone coming after them? Does anyone care? If they have a mission, what happens if they fail? Do their party members know about any of these problems?

And when they successfully return from a long question, how do they get stronger? All those spells and abilities and powers have to come from somewhere. How does your character train? Who do they learn from? If they have no one training them, can they actually learn anything on their own?

The less you handwave, the better the game gets.

>>96821071
>Girls and women
Could you be any more obvious?

>>96851123
>You've found 5000 gold in a dungeon. How much does that weigh? How do you carry it out? Can you carry it out? What's your actually carry capacity and what are the rules for being overencumbered. Do the bookkeeping.
Fuck off Elijah

>>96851123
So using RAW for realism, proper world building, and making a competent backstory?

As for leveling up, I've had a DM make short individual training arcs for our characters to level up once. It was cool, but not to do for every level.

Same DM requires some trainer/relic to multi-class so that may be a better alternative.

>>96850800
Women prefer not playing games at all because they are fundamentally biologically different and have different preferences, and they are incapable of understanding the magic circle.

>>96819147
I guess 5e isn't that bad idk but the rest.

>>96850784
w...where is the French?

>>96819107 (OP)
D&D had no win or loss conditions
AD&D has clear win and lose condition

Also daily reminder all those versions 3.0, 3.5, 4.0, 5.0, 5.5 are all Advanced Dungeons & Dragons but 1980s Boomers and Gen X Drug addicts felt it appropriate to drop it to renew D&D

D&D is long dead, you are playing in AD&D since 1990s

>>96819147
I decree you based on all counts, anon.

>>96857075
Why do you keep replying to yourself?

>>96857717
"She" needs to convince the board tourists that other people agree with "her".

>>96853283
I think it's the black woman. They missed the timeframe by THIS much, like, a century or so.

>>96858190
Maybe she's a Creole.

>>96851424
You'd be amazed at how many people have their minds blown by a game like Shadowdark because it does shit as small as telling people to track time and inventory. But it's what they need to hear. They don't understand why 5e doesn't feel right, and then they play something that tells them to do the things they neglect in every game and it's a huge epiphany about RPGs to them.

>>96850784
Translation we've been indoctrinated to hate White people and are willing to make up far-fetched stories so as to exclude them.

1-on-1 card games are more of an optimization exercise than a proper game, where most of the "skill" weight is on pre-game decisions and matchup lottery. Randomness is one of the few real ways to make it so the game isn't effectivly decided from the start. (Netrunner gets special mention for the "shell game" aspect also influencing this, it feels cheap at times but it introduces real variance.) The logical conclusion of this is "the more one needs to be able to navigate chaos, the more actual gameplay matters." So from the standpoint of a pure play experience, EDH is a better game than 1v1 Magic.

Trench crusade has great art but its pure reddit cringe

>>96861902
what?

>>96863188
but there's a white guy in that image...?

>>96861902
That sounds kinda far fetched, the victorian british dude is right there on the pic. And the poster was just talking about wacky groups, I think.
(Though it does get tiresome if not used sparingly. Sometimes you just want a run-of-the-mill fantasy medieval Europe style campaign.)

>>96829001
>WotC had made not of how bad 5E was at on-boarding DMs.
Elaborate, please

>>96848125
>D&D is the worst game ever made.
That's correct, with that exception of all the others.

>>96819147
When did you first start thinking you were a woman trapped in a man’s body?

>>96826338
The ‘nerdy trend’ that emerged from crap like ‘Big Bang Theory’ and ‘Critical Role’ and festered during lockdown. Women will jump on nothing trendy no matter how idiotic, look how many of them die to black market cosmetic procedures.

>>96864464
>look how many of them die to black market cosmetic procedures.
i imagine the number is maybe a couple dozen, maybe scratching 100, counting only people from the first world of course.

>>96828716
Women, by and large, simply aren’t as inventive, creative or imaginative as men, so TTRPG’s don’t appeal to as many of them.
Women are basically consumers, and actually playing TTRPGs generally requires an intellectual and creative spark as well as the intelligence and willingness to understand and work within a framework of rules. Consumers lack such qualities in general.

>>96850784
>these things existed somewhere on the planet at roughly the same time so having them in a party is plausible
Can’t wait for a game set in current day that features a Sentinelese Islander, an Ainu, a Bhutanese monk and a North Korean with absolutely no rhyme or reason as to how they could possibly have met or why they are together.

>>96864511
>with absolutely no rhyme or reason as to how they could possibly have met or why they are together.
maybe stop telling on yourself that you can't connive a plot to bring a group of randos together.

>>96864484
And if women weren’t trend chasing retards willing to undergo Brazilian Butt Lifts from completely unqualified people working out of Tijuana storage lockers, the number would be zero.

>>96864517
I gave you the modern group.
Sentinelese islander, Ainu, Bhutanese and a North Korean are being sent to investigate a volcanic research institute in Tierra Del Fuego that isn’t responding to radio calls. Go ahead nd explain how that happens.

>>96864527
each one having some personal reason to be there and through serendipity end up on the same boat to the location. a family member supposed to be there, item of value to them taken there, ordered there on vague orders from their glorious leader.
it really isn't hard to make the most slapshit reason, my guy.

>>96864523
whats the actual numbers.
because you are acting like this is such a widespread issue when i can probably take 5 minutes to find some other dumb shit guys do that gets them killed in comparable numbers.

>>96864517
>maybe stop telling on yourself that you can't connive a plot to bring a group of randos together.

>>96864537
>each one having some personal reason to be there and through serendipity end up on the same boat to the location

Looks like you can’t come up with a plot either. And I will refer you back to my original point, which is that just because certain historical events occurred around the same time doesn’t make throwing together one representative of each into a party ‘historically plausible’.

>>96864560
i literally gave you the plot. sorry im not gunna write out each and every character's reason in depth, but i don't value you enough to put in that effort, especially when you have such blatant bad faith.

>>96864546
>but what about what men do
Men play TTRPGs as recreation, women ‘play’ them for trend chasing and social media identity clout.

I swear to fucking Christ the ability of people on this site to debate actual points, instead of misunderstanding them and debating the misunderstanding instead, has plummeted over the last five years especially.

>>96864565
“They all have a personal reason to be there” isn’t a plot and doesn’t explain how they came together.

>>96864565
“I could do it if I wanted to but I won’t because you’re mean” what are you, twelve?

>>96864578
>I swear to fucking Christ the ability of people on this site to debate actual points
like you
i wasn't debating you, i was mocking you.
i asked what the number was, because it's microscopic to the point of a non percentags

>>96864589
its the premise to bring them together, which is what you asked for, by the way, not what the campaign would entail, since you clearly have some idea to what the plot will become since you apparently want them at a volcanic research institute for one reason or another. And I reiterate, you just asked what would bring them together.
>>96864595
>i'm not going to expend energy in a bad faith argument
>how immature!
is this your first time trying to bait? because that was awful

>>96864622
I point out that X happens and you say “ah but in what numbers” and “other groups do it too” and think these are refutations? How would either of those questions, if answered, disprove my original point, you incredibly stupid bowl of pudding?

>I was mocking you
By making it painfully clear you’re at least one standard deviation below average IQ? Interesting approach, let’s see how that works out for you.

>>96864638
>its the premise to bring them together
The word you used was ‘plot’ and your premise for them being together is ‘they all had a reason to be together”. Not even the dumbest writer for the worst Marvel TV spinoff would have the balls to hand in a treatment that threadbare.

>>96864645
if your point is that all women are trend chasing retards that are likely to get themselves killed through black market cosmetic surgery, provide a number that reflects the claim. not less than 0.00000000001% of women. id add more zeroes but i don't want the spam filter to get me.
its just weird how defensive you are getting over it, is your incel woman hating all you are here for, can't stand people calling out your nonsense?

>>96864650
cool, im not writing for a televised audience, i gave an example for how you could begin to justify a tabletop game's plot to bring such desperate people together.
I genuinely don't get whats so hard for you to understand a loosely spitballed idea, but you are again telling on yourself.

>>96825960
>The corporations involved had foreknowledge of things like Covid at least a decade in advance.
Really smart corporations got contingency planning for a lot of possible happenings done in advance.
Slightly less smart corporations use consultants for that. As soon as the CCP started with lockdowns they would have started thinking about what to do in the following 3x3x3 possibilities:
"Doesn't leave China / Spreads to some countries / Spreads everywhere"
"Is a bad flu year / Is really fucking serious / Is Apocalyptic"
"Governments underreacts / Governments act perfectly / Governments overreacts"

I bet they have already done the "How will this affect our business?" for the Ukraine ("Russia collapses / Russia loses / White peace / Ukraine loses and is occupied / Ukraine loses and NATO collapses / Ukraine loses, NATO and EU collapses" and similar for Taiwan.

If they are too small to have people in-house to do it, there are competing "Business Intelligence" companies just dying to sell the service to them. The only problem is separating the bull from the bull-shit.

>>96831472
>What about LGBT cool fantasy stuff?
"Lame" and "Gay" exhibits some covariance, sadly.

>>96819147
>mass samefagging
>screenshotting an image instead of saving it
>macbook filename
go back

>>96864076
Nope.

>>96864565
you are incapable.

>>96864665
you aren't writing at all. you didn't provide any example.

>>96819107 (OP)
WtA was at its best when it was splatterpunk and not trying to be yet another angst engine.

>>96865330
>how would this group come together
>here are some easy prompts as to why
>THIS ISN'T WRITING
Like, I already called out your bad faith to begin with, repeating yourself won't get me to create a full narrative for you. get chatgpt to think for you, retard.

>>96865854
"a family member supposed to be there" isn't a reason. "ordered to be there" isn't a reason. "item of value" isn't a reason. you lose.

>>96866617
all of those are reasons to go there and get embroiled in a plot with the other disparate characters you listed., im sure you such a cool guy to where you hold nothing and no one to any personal value and would have no reason to go get it or them, but characters have these things called motivations and thus become involved with other characters sharing similar or even outright opposite motivations.
Unless you are arguing in such bad faith you need your hand held and someone needs to explain to you that 'these items/people are to be retrieved/saved/otherwise found' is a plot thread to expand upon with a proper table.

>>96819929
>>96825960
>4e-5e bait and switch.
The existence of 4e did make a lot of the playerbase strangely ok with WOTC completely oversimplifying the game in a way that is especially visible on the DM's side (in 5e you have to houserule almost everything that isn't combat or a 1-action skill check, and 5e's monster-designing rules are terribly gamist or not present at all depending on if you look at the 2014 or 2024 sub-editions) and is in most ways worse than 3.5e.

>>96867011
No they're not. Which family member? Why are they supposed to be there? Why were they ordered to be there? What was the item? Why was it valuable?

You haven't provided any information. You lose.

>>96867307
Once more, these are plot hooks for you to figure out and for your players to fill in. you keep demanding i lay out an entire party's in depth character motivation and the inciting plot to justify why a bunch of randoms would come together because you apparently can't, then trying the most childish of 'nuh uh you loose neener neener neener' like you are going to bait me into explaining more.
i genuinely can't tell if you are an actual child, retarded, or both.

>>96867335
Nope, that's not the requirement that was indicated. You lose.

>>96867347
yawn. here's that (you) that you keep shitting yourself for, enjoy it.

>>96867361
You couldn't come up with any ideas, you lose.

>>96867362
well even then, it's still more than you. must suck to be such a simpleton.

>96819147
>reddit space
>shit opinions
They're really sending their best, aren't they?

>>96867370
You lose.

>>96867405
Okay. And?

mad :)

>>96819854
This is actually what happened with 6th ed 40k, it was never meant to be a proper edition and was pushed out because 7th was too much of a change from 5th

Source I worked on it lmao

>>96864656
>if your point is that all women are trend chasing retards that are likely to get themselves killed through black market cosmetic surgery
Good thing that’s not my point then, but an exaggeration of it, motivated by either malice or stupidity.

>>96864656
stay furious troon

>>96867335
You’re talking to two different people now.
>the inciting plot to justify why a bunch of randoms would come together
And that’s exactly where you have failed. “They all have reasons to be there” is not an explanation of how they met or why they banded together, which is the foundation upon which the rest of the adventure must depend.

You said you could do that. You couldn’t. And now you’re saying it’s up to the people calling you out.

Remember that the original point was that just because four different cultures existed simultaneously doesn’t mean it’s plausible that a party would be made up of one member from each.

>>96867652
>>96867679
nah, not baiting any more spoonfeeding baby retard. you lost.

>>96867976
You lost.

>>96819107 (OP)
1. Fantasy is only a serviceable setting for decent hack-and-slash gameplay loops, but it's incredibly lame and stifling for anything beyond combat.

2. D&D and derivatives have a trash magic system with spell lists that remain mostly untouched despite countless editions/revivals/renaissances. It's also impossible to play anything that isn't Fagotten Gayelms with it.

3. Over 90% of games fundamentally misunderstand HP mechanics, and these people have the audacity to call themselves "game designers".

>>96868406
how can a genre that is literally anything you can imagine be stifling

>>96864527
It's the season climax of a reality TV show about Rumspringa-equivalent experiences for isolated peoples.
Any one of them could be crew, perhaps one is the host and creator of the show "helping others out of their small world bubble".
The production company booked the trip before teh site went dark, and won't give up on teh sunk cost.
The isle was chosen as a neat constellation of relevant modern social issues - isolation, mono-ag impacts, resource extraction and climate change.
There, we've even got your intentionally awkward location thinly explained.
nta ftr

>>96868424
Good luck maintaining verisimilitude once you add multiple races, magic system and a pantheon (real or not). Thinking through the implications is hard work.
If teleportation exists, why does trade work like medieval Europe? If wizards can level cities, why do feudal power structures still function? Why hasn't magic completely reshaped society?
Most settings just ignore these questions and default to "medieval Europe with elves," which is why it feels stifling.
Gonzo settings or limiting magic (no teleports, no nukes) can solve this, but players hate restrictions. Fantasy has breadth without depth, endless variations on the same beaten path.

>>96868485
Why did you immediately switch from talking about being stifled to talking about believability? Those have nothing to do with each other. Which one is your complaint?

>>96868490
Both. If a setting lacks internal coherence and your only options are limiting mechanics or hand-waving contradictions, how is that not stifling?

>>96868519
Why do you talk about games as if they're books?

>>96868522
When I want to discuss games as games, I go to the board games thread. TTRPGs are narrative by design, that's the point. Hell, the genre's literally built on Appendix N, a book list.

>>96868543
No, games aren't stories, and that certainly isn't the point. Try again.

>>96868467
Good luck getting the North Sentinelese on board for that

>>96868646
Mine are. I'll grab Frosthaven instead of playing any of your trve gaymes.

>>96868683
They aren't and you won't.

>>96868740
>No... you need to play ttrpgs as skirmish games that have horrible rules for skirmish
If you don't care about narrative, stop being in denial and go play battle minis as intended.

>>96868795
If you don't care about gameplay, stop being in denial and go write a book as intended.

>>96868795
Anon, you do know that D&D started out as a set of fantasy wargaming rules, right?

>>96825446
lmao
Thread is for truth nukes, not dumb takes.

Every problem you have ever had with a tabletop group was probably your fault due to your inability to communicate properly with another human being.

>>96828992
>no risk because having a character die is one of their triggers and they did not CONSENT to that
If you aren't a metagaming faggot who sees TTRPGs as dice rolling sims and can actually get invested in the characters in the game, then an NPC dying instead of a PC can have as much (if not more, in my experience) weight for the players. Killing PCs constantly means that death loses any shock value. It loses its punch. There are no stakes if your PCs drop like flies.
>freakshit furry foot fetish (unintended alliteration)
Ehhhhh I've seen more realistic feet on this board against my will. Doubtful.
>quirky tough guys
And? I don't see what the issue is with an adventurer being eccentric.
>lighthearted marvel humor
False association. Not every game needs to be LE GRIMMDURP garbage. In fact, most games should not.
>freaking eberron
Better than Forgotten Realms, aka generic fantasy slop tolkein clone 23624326
>character romance
Just because you're too autistic to separate your PC from yourself and can't communicate doesn't mean other people are.
>not a single human
There's literally a human front and center, next to the redhead. Either way, why is that a problem? Humans are, flavor-wise and mechanically, the most boring option. They don't have a niche. They have no general culture that makes them stand out. They're the NPC option.

>>96842553
I'm just going to tell you to leave because I have no interest in playing with someone who has an IQ lower than the temperature of my freezer.

>>96869478
Trying too hard.

>>96869264
Talking is for women and wokes. Real men don't need social skills l.

>>96868916
operatives words are "started out". The hobby has evolved beyond a dogshit hack that lead to decades of dogshit editions.

>>96869580
More like I actually run and play games and you've never done either, but okay.

>>96869918
No, it's more like you're trying too hard. And I'm not talking about the way you play games.

>>96869938
you lost.

>>96862017
Absolute "never made a top 8" take, truly just terrible opinion

>>96819107 (OP)
based

>>96819147
>reddit spacing

>>96820464
>>4e ads rely on cringe humor and insulting the existing playerbase. playerbase starts to crack
why?

>>96842490
yeah

>>96864527
They were summoned by CAPTAIN PLANET!

>>96821220
>Men like D&D. Women like Soap Operas. There's nothing wrong with either of those things, but one can't be both.
I could not agree more. It seems like so many people think asking for something not to be included in a game is equivalent to saying the thing is bad in a vacuum.

>>96851349
He at least provided a solution.

>>96853283
>>96858190
>>96858220
The “French” pirate is clearly a francophone Caribbean Islander rather than an actual Ethnically French person. This isn’t even ahistorical, because the majority of buccaneers were low class colonials, and not people from the heartland of the empires that were issuing Letters of Marque. Sure, the captains who were issued the Letters of Marque tended to be sons unlikely to inherit, and such, because they needed to be people with the capital to acquire a vessel to commerce raid in, but their crews were largely the same kind of people you’d find if you went to the slums of Martinique and looked for gangbangers.

And given the chronology they’re talking about, the “elderly French pirate” would most likely have been a hand or cabin boy/cabin girl, and not a pirate captain.

>>96870429
You lost.

>>96819107 (OP)
Then why did I buy a rulebook?

>>96819147
Agreed with most of these.
I did try a lot of other systems but I arrived back at D&D. It's just what everyone at my table knows best and it gives us everything we need. reading some other rulebooks also made me appreciate how well the D&D rulebooks are designed.
In design studies there's a saying that "good design is invisble" meaning you only really notice when something is very badly designed and boy was this true for some rulebooks out there.
>intricate backstories make the game more interesting
Well, no. Intricate doesn't equal more interesting and escpecially doesn't equal making the actual GAME more interesting.
But I do think that there's a correlation between players who make these backstories also being more invested in the game and roleplaying so they tend to just be better players overall. But these players would do just as well without an "intricate" backstory.

>>96872025
nice bait

>>96850784
fun fact: some ronin did in fact make their way to the American West, working as caravan guards.

Dog Child, a Blackfoot scout for the Northwest Mounted Police, somehow managed to get one of their swords.

>>96874330
>AIslop

>>96874377
it's hard to find a clean copy of the original image now that searching "Dog Child" serves up unlimited ai generated images of children playing with dogs.

here's a copy uploaded by Library and Archives Canada in 2010
https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.redirect?app=fonandcol&id=3559482&lang=eng&ecopy=a195224k

>>96871313
>the “elderly French pirate” would most likely have been a hand or cabin boy/cabin girl, and not a pirate captain.

It’s also extremely unlikely to be a brown woman, no matter what modern historical retconning says.

>>96864464
I will let you in a little secret. Those people (men and women) who you are buttblasted about for some stupid reason were always there. This nerdy trend pretty much only exists in the heads of retards who spend all their time getting upset about things.
>>96864523
>there are no men who are trend chasers.
You really need to think about what you are saying.

>>96852843
>t. someone incapable thought or playing tabletop games.

>>96875683
Hey troll, did you enjoy your vacation after I got you banned for spamming last time? lol

>>96864486
tl;dr I am not inventive, creative, imaginative, or smart enough to play TTRPG and I project that onto others.

>>96875685
Only you know the taste of cock, retard.

Oh he must have enjoyed his time off last time that he wants another sabbatical! Alright, here you go buddy!

>>96871313
>The “French” pirate is clearly a francophone Caribbean Islander rather than an actual Ethnically French person.
Slavery in Metropolitan France had been illegal since the High Middle Ages with every slave who set foot there being immediately freed by law, even if in practice this might have been harder to achieve and some would have had to sue for freedom with suits usually being won by the slave. While there weren't many brown skinned people of African descent in Metropolitan France they did number in the tens of thousands mainly in the south. Some were descendants of people who had been there since the 17th century or earlier. A brown skinned woman whose family had been in France for two centuries could be "ethnically French" whatever that means. It's more likely that she's from colonies but it's not a certainty.

>>96819214
It's an unhealthy mentality to have. Never had a problem with it regarding a single player doing it and the rest of the party not, the problems arise when the optimizer is confronted with the reality that dice based games have a element of chance and you're ultimately are not going to win an arms race with the GM. Once confronted by this many optimizers/power gamers/whatever throw a shit fit because they rolled low, or the GM counters their build, and they quit the game because "it's not fun" to not be all powerful

>>96876235
No it isn't. If a player character can make others irrelevant just because he made good decisions instead of bad ones, the game is bad and you should play something else.

>>96876250
>If a player character can make others irrelevant just because he made good decisions instead of bad ones
That is true of every game that has ever been created or published. kys

>>96877028
turnip28 rpg

u r a throwback
develope some brain meat you trog spawn

>>96876250
you are kinda guy that looks up builds for your characters and religiously sticks to them, and never experiments or explores possibilities, aren't you.

>>96875668
>Those people (men and women) who you are buttblasted about for some stupid reason were always there
Oh, so the rise of Critical Role, big bang theory and the mainstreaming of ‘nerd culture’ didn’t attract new people into the hobby that otherwise wouldn’t have joined it? Really?
>You really need to think about what you are saying.
You really need to learn to refute points without strawmanning.

>>96875691
D&D basic, D&D advanced, AD&D 2e, Traveller, Talsorian’s Cyberpunk, Runequest, Shadowrun, In Nomine, Top Secret, Rifts, GURPS, TMNT and other strangeness, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, HōL, Chill, V:tM, and likely a few others I’ve forgotten disagree with your assessment. I do prefer GM’ing to playing though.

>>96877388
>the mainstreaming of ‘nerd culture’ didn’t attract new people into the hobby that otherwise wouldn’t have joined it? Really?
Really. you gotta be sniffing some rancid farts to think big bang theory enticed anyone into being anything more than an ironic nerd.
plus most people need to have an inkling of interest to be in the 'nerd culture' to begin with, especially if they get in the hole enough to be playing pen and paper games.

>>96872343
That is my sincere opinion though. Sorry that you think it was posted for the sole purpose of upsetting whoever reads it.

>>96874870
It's AIslop that was SENT BACK IN TIME!!!! AAAARRGH!

>>96876250
>If a player character can make others irrelevant just because he made good decisions instead of bad ones
That's a DM issue, and explicitly not what I take issue with

>>96877457
>explicitly not what I take issue with
If you haven't noticed, you replied to a troll. Or a bot.
It doesn't read posts, it looks for keywords that trigger an contrarian response.

>>96877592
as a newfag, tell me more of how to identify these bots.

>>96877625
It’s easy, just identify a post you can’t refute then say a bot posted it.

>>96877415
>you gotta be sniffing some rancid farts to think big bang theory enticed anyone into being anything more than an ironic nerd.
It was one of the factors behind the mainstreaming of ‘nerd culture’ and your incredulity fallacy doesn’t mean jack shit.

>>96877647
>It was one of the factors behind the mainstreaming of ‘nerd culture’
it made it mainstream, but by actively making it unappealing to normos. no one wants to be sheldon or leonard or howard.
Also there's no incredulity fallacy, its ad hominem if anything.

>>96877028
No it isn't.

>>96877289
You would never discover any of these builds, since you aren't actually interested in the rules, or the game.

>>96877289
You don't need to look up builds to break bad games. You can break D&D completely by accident just by picking a caster and choosing spells that seem useful at each level up. It isn't the player's job to avoid making good decisions. It is the designer's job to not put dumbass fucking options in their game that ruin it.

>>96820524
The "detail" that he goes into is that his daughter was never interesting in trains and that Lionel "tried" to appeal to girls by... making pink trains. When his daughter didn't even go for that, he concluded that women are physiologically incapable of liking certain things.

>>96877388
>didn’t attract new people into the hobby that otherwise wouldn’t have joined it? Really?
Not in any meaningful amount.
>refute points
You had a point?
>list of games
Good job being able to google tabletop games but that does not show you being able to play them.

>>96878488
And he was right.

>>96878665
>t. nogames who is wrong and dumb.

>>96820752
>Is unable to witness another man without thinking about sex
Seems like and ish-you bud.
>>96878488
>he concluded that women are physiologically incapable of liking certain things
Incapable seems unfair. But certainly broadly less inclined. Things can and should be for boys just as things can and should be for girls. Gygax is correct for making the game the way he did (except 9 point alignment which is retarded).
>>96878745
(you)

>>96878940
If you raise your daughter to not be receptive to certain things, don't be surprised that they aren't interested in them later on. Every woman I know who plays ttrpgs had nerds for parents or a grade school teacher who supported their love of fantasy.

>>96878085
sounding more and more like its a DM issue over gameplay.
picking fireball at level 5 should be met with more magically resistant and more well positioned enemies and anti-magic, silence or counter spells. It's 100% (you)r dm's fault for not being able to increase the challenge to match the abilities of the player characters.

>>96879053
>Every woman I know who plays ttrpgs had nerds for parents or a grade school teacher who supported their love of fantasy.
Damn that's crazy. How many men do you know that got into ttrpgs without any of those things?

>>96879129
Most, actually. Turns out the primary thing that gets you into ttrpgs is growing up in an environment that would encourage your engagement with fantasy and not what genitals you have.

>>96878940
I don't post pics of shirtless men so the faggot here is you
Or maybe he should used his brain and not thought all women are like his daughter.

>>96879141
>Turns out the primary thing that gets you into ttrpgs is growing up in an environment that would encourage your engagement with fantasy and not what genitals you have
Rather true, and yet boys have different interests to girls in every society in every time period in every place humans have ever existed.

>>96879219
Equating nudity with sexuality (homo or otherwise) demonstrates an infantile understanding of the human experience.

>>96878745
Welcome back troll, hope you enjoy your next ban for spamming.

>>96879259
Or maybe you are just a faggot.

>>96879088
No, it's a system issue.

If your DM is going to make fireball irrelevant, why should you pick fireball?

If your DM is going to make any spell you pick irrelevant, why should you pick any spells?

If you get a sword with +1 to hit, and the DM gives every enemy +1 AC to compensate, why should you pick up new weapons?

If "fireball" (or actually broken spells like force cage and shapeshift) wasn't dumb broken garbage, then your DM wouldn't have to do anything special because you picked it. If the system wasn't bad, the DM wouldn't have to fix it. When a product fails to work, it is the fault of the product. Not the customer.

>>96879259
If you looked at those societies you would probably see what things you could show interest in was enforced either law of social pressures.

>>96879328
Where do you think the social pressures come from? Do you think they just poof into existence at random? Fucking retard lol

>>96877625
Any thread even remotely touching the subject of game design will eventually attract the contrarian troll/bot who doesn't actually argue, just contradict what you've said. He usually devolves into "you lost" non-replies.
The trolling is often done through a barrage of one-sentence-long "nuh-uh" replies posted within a minute and a few seconds of each other.

It's really easy to spot after a while, the troll/bot has only one posting style.

>>96879352
>Fucking retard
You sure are one kid. My point is environment matters a lot when talking about how someone behaves. It's not everything but it something you should think about when talking about who gets into things like tabletop games.

>>96879388
Yeah, biology is part of the environment. Thanks for making my argument for me, RETARD!

>>96879660
Someone who makes a reply like that in a nature vs nurture discussion is in no position to call anyone retarded, retard.

>>96879723
Yes I am, RETARD

>>96879741
Yes, you are a retard.

>>96879751
RETARD

>>96879141
you will never be a woman

>>96879292
Its a system designed to be homebreweed and altered to fit the table. RAW isn't an argument, and no said making spells or skills pointless. I said a dm should adjust to match player ability.
I swear, I hope you're the same guy who's been proudly admitting he doesn't know how to play ttrpgs because ther can't be this many intentionally retarded people in one board.

>>96879912
No. Any discussion not based on the rules in the book is meaningless. There is never any excuse for badly designed rules. If you aren't interested in discussing the rules, stop replying.

>>96879912
You did say the DM should make the spell pointless. Anti magic makes fireball pointless. Silence makes fireball pointless. Counterspell makes fireball pointless. You lied. You aren't interested in sincere discussion. Do not participate further in this thread.

>>96879760
Good job finding yourself. Now the thing to ask are you this way because of your biology or the environment you were raised in.

>>96879956
cope

>>96879937
no, thats literally the selling point of almost every ttrpg, that the rules can be changed to accommodate the game. if you think thats poorly designed, whatever, its your opinion, but it doesn't invalidate thats how 99% of people play the damn things.
>>96879941
so do you just lack reading comprhension? all I said is 'the caster should be met with MORE counters, not ONLY counters
so either you are unable to read, you are disingenuous, or perhaps worst of all, you are under the assumption that if a caster is met with any challenge, they are invalidated as a class. which is it, home slice?

>>96819147
>WotC making pro-LGBT art doesn't take away from anyone's games
I wouldn't mind so much if the quality of the art wasn't garbage. Give me a fucking Conan-esque spread with a dude clinging to another dude's leg like he's a chain bikini babe and I'd be totally cool with it.

>>96880477
Honestly, I could respect that. Need a frank frazetta of beefcake to go alongside the cheesecake.

>>96880161
Why are you participating in a discussion about the rules if you don't believe that there are any consistent rules? Trolling is not allowed outside of /b/.

>>96880161
Why do you have to "counter" a player character at all? Surely you're aware that this isn't the default behavior of good games, or even most games?

>>96880537
>Why are you participating in a discussion about the rules
its not a discussion about rules, it was discussion about game design, which involves more than just rules as written.
>>96880540
Ah you're so right, a good game design does nothing to challenge players other than.. what, increase dc ratings, ac and hp?

>>96880577
No, game design concerns the rules and only the rules, since the rules define the game.

>>96880577
Wow, you really are brainrotted by d&d aren't you? Jesus.

>>96880581
well if the rules say 'you can change the rules', thats part of the rules.
>>96880596
well as the discussion has been in dnd terms so far, fireball, silence, counterspell and all... I think. I think.. we were talking about d&d, wild, right?

>>96880633
Yes, and as we've established, d&d's design is bad. So a well-designed game would be, by definition, some other game. Surely even you can follow that much. Never mind that effects like fireball, silence, dispelling, and so on all exist in other games.

>>96880633
How do you know that anything called "fireball" is in D&D? The rules are whatever you want, right?

>>96880633
>as we've established
no no, you established your opinion based on fundamental incompatibility with ttrpgs.

>>96880684
No, it's been established. Engage with the discussion in good faith or stop replying.

>>96880633
Well?

>>96880690
>this opinion is objective because I said so!
Yawn, you gave up so fast, that's no fun. try a different gimmick

I accept your concession.

you lost

you lost

D&D is shit I win

>>96879328
>Every society in history including Mesopotamia, precolumbian Americas, China and east Asia, even isolated islands (like Polynesia), and the most southern tip of Africa has has men and women, boys and girls who acted differently.
>"It's all artificially created by social pressure"
>"Hormonal differences have no effect on someone's interests and actions."

>>96882298
>look at me drool all over myself.

>>96882381
No rebuttal?

you lost?

>>96882532
I think the claim that every society in history is the same with how people behaved can just be dismissed.

>>96882592
I didn't say they were the same, but men and women have acted distinctly different in every one of them.

>>96882805
Source: ass

>>96882819
No rebuttal?

>>96883089
Look for it in your ass. Maybe it is next to your augment

Concession accepted, enjoy your ban.

>>96883128
>augment
kekked

D&D is shit I win