Thread 96825201

Where do liches rank in the power hierarchy of BBEGs?

Only fags say "BBEG".

>>96825201 (OP)
Wherever you want them to be. One of the best things about the almost unkillable undead mages is that you can make them arbitrarily powerful and still have it make sense. The lichdom is a built in justification of the power level, since all you need to do is just say that the given lich spent a few centuries training his magic or committed some atrocity to gain more power.

>>96825201 (OP)
Not how this works. Report to the PDF thread and locate an actual fucking TTRPG book and read it immediately.

Depends, WRPGs generally treat them as a big deal and strong enough to be, if not the main villain, a unique encounter, while JRPGs make them generic undead spellcasters because that's what Nethack did and it alongside Wizardry colored their conventions.

>>96825371
JRPGs tend to still split them though, between the generic undead mages and the more powerful and unique variants. Lately, you get more of "skeleton mages" as the generic ones while the liches proper are still boss monsters.

>>96825201 (OP)
Quite high, I would say #2 just behind Dark Gods/Evil Demigods at #1.

>>96825201 (OP)
Kill yourself, puckee.
https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/1csag1l/art_comm_vandervax_the_vengeful_lich_bbeg_by_alex/

https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/image/R3ZGLpr6llIB-YZIuybu_A/

>>96825636
So higher than Vampire Lords?

>>96825201 (OP)
below demon kings, above most dragons

I don't understand how Puckee is able to make such good art in some cases and such bad art the rest of the time. Is he schizophrenic?

Who is puckee, can i get a quick rundown??

>>96826277
he doesn't make it, he pays for commissions

>>96826178
So above dragons and vamps. But below Demon Kings/Lords?

>>96825201 (OP)
Puck off fuckee.

>>96826627
>>96825790
>>96825636
For me, the most fun thing about the liches is that you can place them at any place in the upper half of the hierarchy of evil. Liches have most of the potential for growth out of the classical undead, with no real cap for their power. At least no cap that cannot be broken with a few dark magic atrocities, divine usurpations and such. You can have anything from just a very powerful necromancer to the Vecna style dark deity.

>>96825790
Good point.
A basic Lich for sure outranks most vampires, but a proper Vampire Lord, a real contender...
You'd need an arch lich or a demi lich or something like that.
What is the rank progression for Liches anyway?

>>96826751
Pretty sure Archlich is higher than a regular lich and a demi-lich is lesser.

>>96825201 (OP)
Where does cuckee rank in the faggotry hierarchy of /tg/?

>>96826831
Less than you

>>96826751
>>96826789
There isn't really a ranking. "Lich" is a state of being (i.e. an undead form gained by detaching your soul from your corporeal body). Originally "Demi-Lich" was intended to be short hand for "Demigod Lich" to describe incredibly old and incredibly powerful Lichs, such as Acererak in the original tomb of Horrors, who let their bodies decay to the point only their skull or a hand remained due to not caring about the physical world. In some cases "Archlich" referred to Lichs that started out as clerics or priests.

4e D&D had Lichs being a false path to immortality created by Orcus that required feeding on souls, Demilichs were a lesser form of Lich that was the result of a Lich not feeding on souls often enough, and Archlichs were those that completed the true path to immortality that Lichdom was a corrupt copy of.

>>96826751
they have very different priorities and skillsets. a vampire fundamentally has to hunt, so it's built for punching down. The matchup with something in it's own weight class, especially another sentient undead caster, is terrible
>hunting at night, invisibility
too many counters to list
>becoming mist or swarms of bats, summoning wolves
the lich has stinking cloud, weather manipulation and counterspells
>charms, hypnosis, seduction
the lich is flat out immune
>flight, summoning undead
all moves the lich has better variants of. and for summons, the lich can override the vampire's control and also has access to non-undead summons so isnt vulnerable in return

the vampire is stronger and faster, better armed and armoured and has active regeneration, but in all other ways the lich dominates. a vampire lord with all their gear and thralls setting out to slay a lich would probably win because they have the resources to siege out the lair, but in a straight head to head match the lich has hold monster, sickening radiance and fireball on tap, and restores from their phylactery even if they take a dive.

>>96826831
Towards the top, but he's not the supreme queerlord.

>>96825201 (OP)
Above fags that say "fags say 'BBEG'", below Cuckee

>>96825201 (OP)
Commit suicide, puckee.

>>96826751
So
lich>vampire
Archlich>Vampire Lord

>>96833790
Depends on the hierarchy. A Vampire Lord/King would not be looked down upon for having a Lich of any rank as a visor and a Lich King would not be looked down on for having a Vampire Lord as a general.

>>96825201 (OP)
>puckee spamming his commission again
https://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/1csag1l/art_comm_vandervax_the_vengeful_lich_bbeg_by_alex/
https://desuarchive.org/_/search/image/R3ZGLpr6llIB-YZIuybu_A/
>28 times

Are liches really ranked higher than dragons?

>>96834971
there's too many dragons for them to be that cool. some rare dragons can be above liches but the category in general, no

>>96825212
Where do you think you are?

>>96825212
Ok fag.

>>96825332
Alternatively, you could have a joke character villain that is an immortal undead lich that cannot be destroyed... but also sucks in a fight.

"Yeah, I spent my entire life amassing the necromantic power to become immortal. Does that sound to you like the sort of person who would risk his life getting into fights with people? What use would I have for fucking fireballs?"

>>96825212
Well uh, technically, you said it.

>>96828311
>a vampire lord with all their gear and thralls setting out to slay a lich would probably win because they have the resources to siege out the lair
I'm not even entirely sure that's true. A lich isn't exactly super vulnerable to a siege. The majority of their time is sitting at the bottom of a tomb researching magic without needing to eat or sleep, and the remainder of their time is often spent building a self-sustaining deathtrap over their heads which will kill anyone who tries to get in.

Meanwhile the vampire and his forces actually require supply lines for the siege. The vampire needs blood, any spawn need blood, and the thralls need food and water in order to replenish their blood.
It'd be a costly and time consuming endeavor, making it more likely for the Lich to notice the intrusion. And then the Lich can simply teleport and go get whatever resources he needs to deal with the vampire.

You only have to read memes about high level Wizards to realize how annoying a Lich should be for anyone to deal with.

>>96825201 (OP)
Short rope and a long drop, puckee.

is it possible for a lich to be sexy?
Or does putting enough meat on the wizard corpse to make one aroused automatically move the drawing to the 'necromancer with bad complexion'-pile?

>>96826282
Puckee's a known known redditor who spams his commissions, including the time he tried passing one of his commissions on the drawthread as a fill.
https://desuarchive.org/tg/thread/92628290/#92687500
He's been spamming his commissions for years, since around 2020-2021, especially on the character art threads. Probably killed them too, before the unique IP counter was removed, the draw threads had basically low double digit unique IPs.
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/84892301/#84901094
People picked up on him spamming a few years ago and started calling him out on it, but mods have censored his full username. He also samefags, as he did on the draw thread.

>>96838968
Glamour spell

>>96834971
Yeah, largely because they are former humanoid mages who by themselves also outrank dragons. Dragons these days, most often get sidelined to make the human villains more important/seem more powerful.

>>96825201 (OP)
>BBEG
Ugh