Thread 96852583

>What is Exalted?
An epic high-flying role-playing game about reborn god-heroes in a world that turned on them.
Start here:http://theonyxpath.com/category/worlds/exalted/

>That sounds cool, how can I get into it?
Read the 3e core book (link below). For mechanics of the old edition, play this tutorial:http://mengtzu.github.io/exalted/sakuya.html
It’ll get you familiar with most of the mechanics.

>Gosh that was fun. How do I find a group?
Roll20 and the Game Finder General here on /tg/. good luck

>Resources for Third Edition
>3E Core and Splats
https://www.mediafire.com/folder/b54o6teut3fx6/Exalted_3e

>Errata for Third Edition
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1n3ooTmopm3CBxW5jwPp1761xsaIccea-5XIhVM_PQEc/edit

>Other Ex3 Resources
https://pastebin.com/fG1mLMdu (embed) (embed)

>Resources for Older Editions
https://pastebin.com/BXSGuFdQ (embed) (embed)

>Current Quixalted Extended QE Version (Fanmade Supplement)
https://files.catbox.moe/rjgmo5.pdf

>Optional Quixalted Exalts
https://www.mediafire.com/file/jg86yrewnhx2ov3/QE_Reject3eExaltHomebrew.pdf/file

>Exalted Demake/Black Vault (Now with updates):
https://pastebin.com/Tt1PjuYt (embed) (embed)
https://pastebin.com/qHRW9N51 (embed) (embed)

>collection of Exalted Hacks
https://pastebin.com/gtZnycJs (embed) (embed)

>stuff that might be interesting
https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/the-exalted-thread-with-no-original-ideas.317216/

Last thread: >>96788853

TQ: How does your circle travel? Do they footslog it everywhere? Do they've some manner of group transport? Individual artefacts geared for travelling long distance? Has everyone invested in Ride or Sail? Do they use Sorcery for all their transport needs?

>>96852583 (OP)
>Le quirky big chungus frog mecha
Cringe!

Admiral come back............................

>>96852636
Admiral deserves better.

>>96852668
Yeah, he deserves to be here.

this thread is off to a great start.

>>TQ: How does your circle travel?

you know, i've seen dozens of airships and xships but never seen someone ride a damn horse.

>>96852714
The problem is that Ride and Sail are both nice as all hell. If your story doesn't have a lot of travel and mounted combat Ride is useless, and if it doesn't take place in the West then Sail is doubly useless.

>>96852764
Solar Sail, in fairness has a number of charms for embodying the archtypical ship captain, and there are airships, sandships, and other exotic vehicles, but naval combat is not something that anyone ever wants to engage with. Never heard of mounted combat being useless, though.

>>96852764
ride is one of the best combat abilities though

>>96852636
>>96852668
>>96852684
Fuck this guy.
>>96852583 (OP)
>How does your circle travel?
We like that Traveling Pagoda thing.
It ain't made for combat and desu it ain't a magnificent palace either, so not a great place for doing some massive parties or for diplomatic meetings. Still, it is perfect for some style and comfort when getting to any place in Creation, or downtime between adventures and it doesn't require massive commitment of skill and motes. ST allows the entire circle to share the commitment load if you live in there. And it is pretty fast. 800 miles in a day ain't bad speed. Especially when you can spend all this time doing other shit like crafting or training or resting.

>>96852936
>Fuck this guy.
I wouldn't go as far as that but I do miss him.

>>96850072
I don't think you mean the one in this

>>96853077
I would go that far. He blue balled me to many times by not finishing his fics after deralkng stpry severaltimes in a row. He will have to pay for it until my balls are so spend they will turn into rasins.

>>96853077
>>96853671
Haven´t been here for a while, the fuck did you guys do to the admiral?

>>96853671
>after deralkng stpry severaltimes in a row
Did you have a stroke or something?

>>96853697
Some anon(s) sent him porn.

>Comparing God-King's Shrike with Promised Nightmare Unleashed
>The former is, for all intents and purposes, mechanically identical to the latter even though the fucking Kukla being unleashed seems like a bigger deal than a mere zombie horde
>However, the latter and only the latter provides the option of an Exodus-style stay of mercy for people caught in the disaster
There is no greater sign that there is something profoundly wrong with 3e Charm design than the fact that Abyssals are better at sparing people from their nuclear option Charms than Solars.

>>96854549
Well duh, chivalry of death and all that.

>>96854549
It is a genuine good thing, since it breaks the "good vs evil" bottleneck that the writers done with the Solaroids.

Now they just need to scrap the "tyrant sun" aspect from Theion/Malfeas and give it back to Solars.

>>96855009
>>96855089
retards
>>96854549
Abyssals offer unofficial patches for solar charms

>>96855223
I was half joking, but Solars really ended up too constrained because of the Solaroids.

The writers wrote them as foils at character level, instead of splat level.

>>96854549
>There is no greater sign that there is something profoundly wrong with 3e Charm design than the fact that Abyssals are better at sparing people from their nuclear option Charms than Solars.
That's because the new devs are much bigger pussies than the previous ones.

Might be a dumb question, but do different kinds of Exalted go together well in a group, or is it better to keep everyone as the same kind, like Solars?

>>96856128
>do different kinds of Exalted go together well in a group
In general it is easier to keep them separated to their own kind.
With maybe an oddball character like a lunar mate or rogue abyssal or infernal.

>>96852243
>Do alpha strikes count in this? Where someone can bring a targets health to 0 without any real ability to counter?
Alpha strikes are an intended outcome.

>What about having resists so high that nothing can really hurt you?
No.

>What about being able to craft so awesomely that you totally disrupt the local economy?
No.

You're describing natural interpretations and extrapolation of the system and the world it's made to represent. Some of them I would disagree with the implementation of, but they aren't game-breaking exploits ripe for abuse.

>I have to be real, 1000 mortals does seem like it'd be a battlegroup.
I was talking about the fact you can put 1000 Dragonblood in a battlegroup, losing all their charms and replacing them with Might 3, meaning that a chargen Dragonblood can reliably solo their own Great House, and that a single QC shikari is stronger than a hundred QC shikari. I wasn't talking about mortals.

>I don't know. In DnD lingo it's pretty clear that something like Pun-Pun isn't possible. Or that you can't mass transit items by lining up NPC's. How do you determine when "I'm doing too much damage" or "my numbers with X are too high" or whatever.
Actually, item transit ala peasant railgun does work if you line up peasants in Exalted. It takes a miscellaneous action to pass something along, but all of the peasants in a row taking misc actions does let you transit something RAW. The problem isn't numbers being too high and that's not something I ever talked about, it's unintuitive rules interactions leading to outcomes that are nonsense. Character build has nothing to do with it.

Innovating a charm that adds 10000000 non-charm dice to your pools? Abusing custom charm rules, Storyteller shuts it down. A canon charm that adds 10000000 non-charm dice to your pools? Completely fine. Using the base Excellency to add negative numbers to your dicepool, failing the roll but paying negative motes for recovery? Rules abuse, shut it down.

>>96856546
>A canon charm that adds 10000000 non-charm dice to your pools? Completely fine
Well okay obviously not completely fine, the entire fanbase would riot. It wouldn't be rules abuse though, it'd just be the developers fucking up again.

>>96856128
>do different kinds of Exalted go together well in a group, or is it better to keep everyone as the same kind, like Solars?
Depends on the Exalted. Celestials generally mix well, and Terrestrials (meaning characters about on par with Dragonblood like raksha too, not just the Terrestrial Exalted) generally mix well, but Exalted generally don't mix well between them. Solaroids can go well or poorly, it's a bit up in the air a lot of the time, and do okay with Celestials.

The main thing is that a mixed game and a pure game tend to run very differently. A game that's pure Lunars has very different assumptions because of things as basic as everybody having a fast overland travel speed via flying animals, being capable of stealth, and so on. A Sidereal game is similar in that everybody has access to Resplendent Destinies and Heavenly Gates and that means a full circle of Sids can do things a mixed circle can't. Dragonblood games assume your party members aren't automatically the biggest deal around. A Solar or two ends up being common in mixed games because their base assumption is only that you are powerful and don't have strong ties to supernatural factions, and most mixed circles fall into a Solar-like pattern because that's doable for most Exalted, not just Solars.

>>96856594
This already happened, it involved mortals Stamina, and infinite dice instead of just 1000s.

>>96856546
You're heard about the legendary double 10s, now let me tell you about the true power of the First Age Solars.

Triple 10s.

Everybody talking shit about battlegroups until the commander tells his troops to go out one by one.

>>96857580
This explains why Hearteaters are deemed too dangerous to exist.

>>96857580
I did actually point out something like that last thread. Even in the case where you say that Strategic Maneuver only works in battlegroup vs battlegroup, a group of PCs could form up into a battlegroup and use Strategic Maneauvre to teleport, or Ambush to guarantee the whole team gets to ambush nova even if they fuck up JB/stealth. Then when combat starts they split up to benefit as individuals.

Dragonblooded battlegroups are also very funny as an idea, because battlegroups losing Magnitude represents people breaking away from the battlegroup more than it does actual damage dealt to people in the group. So, a battlegroup of Dragonblood could be interpreted to be popping out shitloads of DBs as it takes damage, and works as ablative anti-nova armor that the DBs leave to join battle as individual fighters.

Presence and Performance are easy enough for me to grasp, but what does a Socialize-based influence roll look and feel like?

>>96857580
Ah yes, using battlegroups to facilitate endless 1v1's, the exact purpose of battlegroups. This might honestly be the dumbest thing I've read in a long, long time.

>>a group of PCs could form up into a battlegroup

my nigga what? Mechanical whiteroom stuff like this doesn't work in Exalted, it's a narrative system and such. I don't think PC's CAN form into a battlegroup, like, by their very nature. That's an NPC thing.

>>96856546
It just feels like your definition of abuse is "Don't allow players to flat out cheat" which is pretty... eh. Like it's obviously "abuse" to demand that certain errata be used when it's out of place or the ST doesn't think it fits. And it's abuse to make a charm that gives you a billion auto successes. It's also abuse to say that you can make 17 free actions to drop someones willpower to 0.

but its not abuse to make a charm that gives successes, or to drop someones willpower to 0. The same way you can alpha strike someone to 0 health, or reduce all damage you can take to 0. I'm trying to be clearer here, real sick at the moment, but all this just doesn't seem too helpful.

>>96857960
>It just feels like your definition of abuse is "Don't allow players to flat out cheat" which is pretty... eh.
None of what I mentioned was cheating, though. Different tables allow different levels of fuckery, and I'm describing extreme scenarios because I don't actually want this to devolve into a argument over how abusive things are - you asked whether rules abuse is a thing that exists in Exalted and what even could be considered rules abuse in this game, and I said yes it exists, and describe some examples. There are things that are closer to the line and frankly I don't care to argue what's abusive interpretation of RAW or not for the things that fall one way or the other depending on the table.

As an example of something that falls either way - still on the extreme side, really, but some tables could go either way - sometimes a Solar goes Lore Supernal and takes Power-Awarding Prana and you let them improvise pretty much anything close to their normal capabilities under the assumption that a custom charm could theoretically exist to describe that capability, which they could take. Some Storytellers consider that an abuse of the rules: theoretically allowed but not reasonable, and limit it to canon or actually written and approved custom charms.

As another, Introduce a Fact can theoretically retcon near-anything into the world. Some Storytellers would consider introducing a secret flaw into your opponent - maybe a weakness to silver, relevant weapons ignoring all their defensive charms and dealing aggravated damage - an abuse of the rules and forbid it outright. Some would only consider it abusive if you did it in combat, or they might care more about where you're drawing the information from. Similarly, some would consider it an abuse of the rules to use Introduce a Fact to introduce fresh new Intimacies of any level into an NPC, completely circumventing the social system, while others would not.

I'm willing to invent time travel to bring a megabully from the 80s into the present just to stop spergs from starting brain-meltingly retarded never-ending arguments like this.

>>96859282
It wouldn't work, those bullies in question were the ones who bullied the WW's writers in the first place

>>96859397
And those writers gave us Exalted, while these whiteroom spergs only give us headaches. Conclusion: a certain level of bullying is necessary to prevent spergs from reaching critical mass.

>>96859569
Anon... you are under selection bias.
WW autism was greatly filtered, see dirt secrets of the black hand, or the avatar storm.

Entire books were made to win forum arguments.

I'm not actually sure who's arguing. Literally nothing in this thread feels like an argument or a debate.

>>96860185
It is mostly shitposting, and poking at weird rules interactions.

>>96852583 (OP)
What are your favorite places in Creation to travel TO, and why?

>>96860558
Anywhere in the scavenger lands, for the sheer variety of things you can do and sights to see.

Presence and Performance are easy enough for me to grasp, but what does a Socialize-based influence roll look and feel like?

>>96862975
Socializing is polite, high-class interaction.
See Varys or Little finger use socialize.
While Robert Baratheon uses presence.

>>96862992
>Socializing is polite, high-class interaction.
So what form does it take in a criminal or military setting?

>>96863142
>criminal or military setting
It doesn't change that much; it's like mob bosses talking to each other or talking respectfully to a superior commander.
I see it as presence is more emotional communication with lots of gestures, while socializing is more subtle communication using well-thought-out wording and following social taboos.

>>96863142
I think it would look the same regardless of situation. It's the Social skill for using a Formal or Courteous approach. Acting respectfully, speaking in turn, acknowledging the differences in standing between you and the subject you're Socializing with.

>>96863142
Criminal and military settings can also have kinds of hierarchies and protocols.

>>96852583 (OP)
Do you guys have drawings of cool swords that could be used as daiklaives?

>>96863344
Quite ironic knowing Socialize is practically the godstat for social characters.
>is rolled to figure out other characters' Intimacies
>is a factor in calculating Guile, i.e. preventing other characters from figuring out your Intimacies
>can be rolled for social attacks on top of the above
Compare with Integrity, Performance and Presence which can only do one thing each.

Protip: There's nothing wrong with statting important NPCs as if they were player characters with XP proportional to their puissance. This is especially true for fellow Exalted.

>>96864983
the real problem was "my game imploded because I *had* to give npcs more and more pages of charms" issue that wasn't really solved by 3e.

>>96865110
Just print them into flash cards, it's not hard. Failing that just use an AI to keep track.

My NPCs only use excellencies.

How do we fix Martial Arts...

>>96865110
How the fuck are you supposed to stat an antagonist who can provide a challenging and satisfactory fight if you can't give them Charms?

>>96866906
it's weird how fun fighting other exalted is in both editions. Maybe it's fun in 1e too but someone else would have to comment.

Is there any first circle demon capable of changing size?

>>96865884
Don't make charms that have the same effect in each MA Style. 2e was especially suffering from this. Almost any MA had that turned unarmed damage into lethal and Initiative dice charms. And the worst thing is that basically all exalted already had charms that did the same thing already, but were more versatile. This made purchasing MA charms feel like a waste of EXP.

>>96866906
3e tried but failed, and by design, made the problem worse.

>>96863190
Though Larceny and War (respectively) can carry you through part of the way. The former means that you act like a proper criminal, the latter that you know how to give and take orders. You're not bullshitter or faker, and others can respect that.

>>96852583 (OP)
Travel? I'm the leader of Gem. People come to me.

>>96867234
Why was it that the devs decreed you can't mix MA with native Charms anyway?

>>96852583 (OP)
>Editing
Abyssals Companion: Riders from the Sunless Lands
The sun would have set on post-approval development, if there was a sun. But there isn’t. Anyhow, it’s now in the hands of our fearless editor
>Art Direction
Infernals (BK) – Awaiting final artwork
Essence PG – Working up art buy as I’d like this to be the next Exalted thing we contract out
>Layout
Alchemicals
official name for the infernals book is Infernals: Crowned in Hellfire. they seem set to launch the backerkit campaign next month, with their current campaign for curseborne ending friday. i'l do the monthly update then

>>96867197
Some like bisclavarets and gethin (compass: malfeas) can shapeshift within certain limits, which might make them bigger than their 'default'. I can't think of any other canon examples, but shapeshifting is within the possible space so you could try to present a homebrew demon with a more advanced sizeshifting specialty to your Storyteller if you really needed one for some reason.

>>96869014
It's not terribly important, just a piece of fluff for a piece of light artifact armor made from a demon's skin that can shrink down into the size of a bracelet for concealment among other things. Thanks anyway though, you did help me out.

>>96868944
Speaking of Alchemicals how dogshit* are the new iconics?

*or worse, forgettable

>>96856594
What kind of relationship does Ipithymia have with Solar Exalted anyway, especially that one crazy Dawn Caste who went native and decided to live in Malfeas while distancing himself from Creation-facing affairs? I don't think it's ever been detailed, but I recall someone saying she was a mesugaki at some point (or maybe it was my imagination) so I kind of imagine her hassling/flirting/teasing a Solar if she knew he wouldn't GET her on the spot.

>>96868710
Because it would make Solars too powerful apparently, according to the guy who made Solars too powerful in the previous edition.

>>96869515
Largely truth sadly. There are some specific charms you can combine with MA, but even simple ones can blow entire MA's wide open.

>>96869521
Combining Single Point with Solar melee's extra actions would be devastating, for instance.

>>96868710
They half learned the lesson from Eclipse charm balance problems, of mixing stuff that wasn't meant to.

Unfortunately they forgot it halfway through, and panicked at the thought of Lunars being relevant.

>>96869223
most of them are pretty boring, nondescript and similar enough that they're androgenous or difficult to distinguish. the only ones that stand out a bit are the female orichalcum and soulsteel, and the orichalcum will get shit for being very tumbr-esque. it's a shame because the art is otherwise meluran's strong and distinctive style

>>96869717
Lunars can mix attribute with MA charms though, that actually bumps them up a bit compared to Solars. Or does not getting automatic Mastery kick them in the nads?

>>96869788
They invented the versatile keyword to make sure that Lunars weren't the best martial artists around

>>96869804
Can I get a qrd on what it does? Sounds like Aura for DBs in that it appears positive but actually kicks you in the balls.

>>96869809
It allows a character to combine their native charms with MAs, the devs invented it to make sure that Sidereals were the best around.

>>96869821
oh, so it was for Sids. Right. Are Sid native Charms really that good?

Does anyone here have any experience roleplaying romance with other player characters? How well did it go? Would you give it another go? Is this an online only phenomenon because I've never seen anything even close to it in real life tables - IRL you tend to get way more fucking around it feels like.

At what point do you think in game posts are too long? For example, about how much text should each action take? the game wants you to stunt but too much is too much, so what's too much?

>>96869680
Agreed, but combining Single Point with Excellent Strike, or hell maybe even Fire and Stones Strike isn't too extreme.

>>96869960
>At what point do you think in game posts are too long? For example, about how much text should each action take? the game wants you to stunt but too much is too much, so what's too much?
That's equally dependent on what you're comfortable with and what's normal at the table, and neither objective numbers nor other people's post lengths are anywhere near as relevant as those factors. So, mostly the answer is to do what feels right.

That said, there are some objective markers, depending on your medium. I use Discord, for example, and 'one discord post' is where I cap myself as a player. As a Storyteller my hard cap for how long one post was sat at 'until the text box stops taking more words because the post is too long'. What was normal was much smaller, and honestly I'm not even comfortable with where I ended up, because earlier on as a Storyteller I would post more quickly and regularly even if the posts were a little shorter, and that had better pacing for my games than the longer scenery-chewing I ended up at. It's hard to untrain out of habit though.

>Does anyone here have any experience roleplaying romance with other player characters?
A bit, yeah.

>How well did it go?
I've had it go extremely poorly between players in a game I was running, to the point the game basically collapsed because of sexual harassment. I've had it go well enough when myself and the other player went into the game with it already established. I've had it go very well between a Storyteller Exalt and a player.

>Would you give it another go?
Altogether, ups and downs. The lows are lower than the highs are high, so I don't go for it much unless I already have a lot of respect for the other player. A lot of the difficulty is that it's sometimes hard to tell if people are going for ERP or romance as a narrative construct, and the former is destructively bad if anybody is even a little uncomfortable and even if they're not it still leads to games devolving into worse states.

>>96869753
>>96869223
in fact, here's pictures, with some names extrapolated from pictures of scenes with the iconics and fiction from the manuscript
Foremost Fist of Righteousness - orichalcum

>>96869753
>>96869223
Divine Axiom Demonstrated - adamant

>>96869753
>>96869223
Thousand Dooms Sentinel - soulsteel

>>96869753
>>96869223
Faultless Conciliator - jade, white
not 100% on this name

>>96869753
>>96869223
don't know the names of these two
starmetal

>>96870087
>>96870100
>>96870103
>>96870111
>>96870117
They don't look good.
They look too clunky or maybe broad?
With a touch of lame androgyny on top.

>>96870087
>>96870126
Foremost Fist looks like it's meant to be a Pillar Man.

>>96870136
>Side shave
>Woman
>Basically a amn with tits
She looks like trash compared to the pillar men.

>>96869753
>>96869223
and for the moonsilver one, i couldn't find the full profile art, so here's a scene he's in for detail

>>96869223
>>96869223
here's a picture of the full profile along with two of the others
the pictures look like shit because i converted them to jpg from something called .avif

Okay, I'm gonna give my thoughts right quick.

>Orichalcum
Generic brown tranny complete with bulge. 0/10, send to Vats complex and melt it down.

>Adamant
Buddhist monk getup is kinda cool but doesn't really say "Autochtonia" to me (where the fuck did he find all that cloth anyway?) and has little personality otherwise. 3/10, gonna resist the urge to crack wise about how the Adamant is wearing clothes now.

>Soulsteel
Weapon looks cool but design is kinda uninspired (again, doesn't really say "Autochtonia") and it looks like they bolted a woman's head on a man's body; Mel-Uran has truly lost her touch. 5/10, nice Azula hairstyle though.

>Jade
Finally a fucking proper Autochtonian design, it only took four/five tries. 8/10, add some lightning or particle effects and you're set.

>Starmetal
Not Lissome Avid Engineer, auto-fail. 0/10.

Okay okay okay fine, it's kinda cool but besides the cool LSD filigree it doesn't say "Autochtonia" much. 4/10, cool Adam Jensen sunglasses though.

>Moonsilver
I was just about to ask about the Moonsilver one, kek. Pretty lame though, just a generic basketball american painted black. 2/10, how bitterly fitting that they use AIslop for the Alchemicals book.

Additional note: Retarded pajeet-tier site code flagged my post as spam. What a fucking joke.

>>96870201
they didn't use AI racefaggot, meluran drew these

>>96870205
I was talking about this one: >>96870178

>>96870201
>Generic brown tranny
The funny thing is that an Alchemical body is literally custom made. They can look like anything they want.

>>96870214
onyx path foesn't use AI, they're pretty adamant about it. but it's long been rumored richt keeps the purse strings tight for art, which makes him a ladder pulling hypocrite

>>96870218
>onyx path foesn't use AI
Yet they steal art and photobash without shame lmao

>>96870217
>The funny thing is that an Alchemical body is literally custom made. They can look like anything they want.
Even the ones with Int 1, it seems.

>>96870218
>>96870222
>onyx path foesn't use AI
Photobashing, plagiarism and Poser are fair game but outright AIslop is a bridge too far? I somehow doubt it.

>>96870201
>Generic brown tranny complete with bulge
Got my hopes up but there is no gock in that pic. Get your eyes checked.

>>96870237
At I guess I think it has something to do with artists in general being incredibly pissy about AI, and Rich mainly holding onto his current position because he’s friend with a lot of artists.

>>96867081
Agreed.

>1e
1e is the edition in which I feel it’s the most unfun, primarily because Celestials just turn into unconquerable stone walls. Abyssals are right up there with Lunars in terms of just “fuck you, you’ll never have enough dice to do shit with me”

>>96867258
I profoundly hate 3e, and I think Gajam-Un and Sibri are the most successful instances of that. Mainly because they actually have enough fucking description to run a coherent fight without waiting on the NONEXISTENT SPIRIT CHARMS you were apparently supposed to flesh out non-Exalted antagonists with if I remember early 3e dev talk accurately. Even then, it is very noticeable that specific Charms (read: anything that bypasses the problem of Legendary Size) make fights with them way easier.

>>96869831

They have some fairly mean ones. Harmony of Blows + Indomitable Shieldbearer go very hard with Crane Style, Speared Boar Struggle is just insane, etc. It also helps that they can stick an onslaught negator on literally any martial art.
In general I think Sids get the most bang for the XP buck of any 3e splat except Alchemicals, who are defined by being efficient in that regard. Their trees are short and their charms are usually punchy custom capabilities because their incredibly strong excellency covers most of their dice trick needs. You scoff at the dice cap of 3 until the Sid starts throwing full-excellency decisives at TN5 for zero motes and doesn't stop until you're dead.

>>96870405
>they can stick an onslaught negator on literally any martial art.
Defensive charms like onslaught negators are automatically compatible with martial arts. Only offensive native charms are incompatible with martial arts. Utility, defense, movement, and so on can be fully synergized.

If you're in the close rangeband with someone who wants to stop you, do you still need to Disengage if you use a charm or other effect to move away in a way they shouldn't be able to follow? Examples include using Monkey Leap Technique to jump up to a clothes line, jumping over a cliff with a glider, or teleporting away with Travel Without Distance/Avoidance.

>>96870144
Oh it's a woman? That's why I called it "it"

>>96867081
I think Ex1e is still the best model of Exalted combat in all three editions, but it is also (by far) the clunkiest. Combat is risky, clunky and dangerous, but Solars can ignore half of those rules with their reflexive/persistent defenses. It gave an actual layer of tactical depth to the system which wasn't just overpowering/ignoring defenses. Combos were also meant for and felt like actual finishing moves that integrated all your Charms rather than a WP surcharge for serious combat.

>>96870405
>In general I think Sids get the most bang for the XP buck
first splat syndrome strikes again

>>96870453
If you use a melee or brawl parry charm you can't use a martial arts parry charm with it. Evasion doesn't have these issues but parry does. You can use martial arts or melee defensively and the other offensively but they can't combine.

>>96870658
>If you use a melee or brawl parry charm you can't use a martial arts parry charm with it.
You actually can do that.

>Evasion doesn't have these issues but parry does.
You can use Dodge charms against the same attack you used Serpentine Evasion against.

>You can use martial arts or melee defensively and the other offensively but they can't combine.
They can indeed combine defensive charms. It's not a natural reading of the rules that only offensive / attack-enhancing charms are incompatible between native and martial arts, rather than all native charms being incompatible with all martial arts charms, but it is the reading the developers wanted you to have (somehow) made. Counterattacks are offensive so you can't combine Crane Form and Eightfold Bulwark Stance, but you can use Melee charms to parry while you're in Single Point Form no problem.

>>96870644
It is more "you don't understand, we had to make Sidereals break the game".

>>96870205
I am pretty sure they did for across the eight directions and Exigents.

>>96871546
Haslanti League.

As an idle thought exercise I tried to stat picrel as a Solar. What I learned is that it'd take an absurd amount of Merit dots to emulate what she can do.

What stats are Retainers supposed to have?

What are some ideas for how a sidereal anima banner should look like?

>>96871005
>They can indeed combine defensive charms. It's not a natural reading of the rules that only offensive / attack-enhancing charms are incompatible between native and martial arts, rather than all native charms being incompatible with all martial arts charms, but it is the reading the developers wanted you to have (somehow) made. Counterattacks are offensive so you can't combine Crane Form and Eightfold Bulwark Stance, but you can use Melee charms to parry while you're in Single Point Form no problem.
It says you can't combine combat ability and martial arts charms it means all of them. I don't know how you get a selective that it only applies to offensive abilities when it doesn't. They wouldn't have specified sidereal defensive versatile charms otherwise.

>>96856128
i only know 2nd ed in any depth so:
mechanically, there's "tiers" that work on about the same level of power:

the solaroids: solar/abyssal/infernal

the not solaroid celestials: lunar, alchemical, sidereals

the not the above: dragon blooded, celestial half-castes.

staying within a tier work mostly fine but there's things that can be roleplay wise difficult. for exemple, sidereals have the arcane fate or abyssals cant normally regen motes in creation that can be difficult to deal with in a mixed table.

i highly recommend NOT playing a DB in a celestial game (particularly with solaroids). DBs have less starting charms, the charms just do less and they cost more xp. DBs will feel outclassed by solaroids very fast and it only get worst with time.

>>96864250
fuck the swords, that armor design is FIRE!

>>96867197
i guess perroneles can stretch so it could LOOK bigger or smaller?

>>96870201
well, at least there's no autochtonian artifact wheelchair.

>>96875728
>DBs will feel outclassed by solaroids very fast and it only get worst with time.
ENTER

>>96875964
Yeah, that dude is an elder DB hanging out with newbie celestials.

>>96875261
The constellation that they were born under.

>>96875992
Your point being?

>>96875782
They already detailed those in Abyssals. It wouldn't be very trying to make versions for Autochthonia.

>>96876071
That he's right DBs get quickly power creeped, so they need a massive head start to keep up.

>>96876187
That's no longer true in 3e.

>>96876290
It's not true in essence but it's still true in 3e. Dragon-blooded have a piss weak charmset in 3e. It's just a bad solar charmset. Their artifacts and martial arts are equally as weak. The elemental dragon styles and artifacts in their splat book and companion are not at the level of any other martial arts or artifacts in the core. They feel like the worst type to play as and need a full rewrite.

>>96876603
>They feel like the worst type to play as and need a full rewrite.
So wrong.

I've run Dragonblood, Solars, Abyssals, Lunars, Sidereals, and a mixed circle in 3e. That's a a ranking of them from best to worst. Right now, Dragonblooded, Solars, and maybe Abyssals are the only splats I would be willing to run again.

>>96876717

Damn, cruelty to Sids. I really liked running for 3e Sids, they don't have anything too nonsensical to instantly obliterate fights like Solars and they don't default to soakbeasts like Lunars, which slows the fights right down, plus the toolkits are generally more satisfying.

>>96876717
Oh, strange, people used to say that Lunars were easier to run than DBs or Solars, what was your issue with them?

>>96876290
>That's no longer true in 3e.
Are you god damn kidding me? Are we playing the game game? Dragonblooded don't remotely have the kit to keep up with Solars individually. Facing the same threat as Solars means showing up with a significantly larger force of arms as a Dragonblooded group.

>>96876748
>Oh, strange, people used to say that Lunars were easier to run than DBs or Solars, what was your issue with them?
Easier to run maybe, but not nicer, I think is a way to put it? They all have basic competency and they can all sort of exist in the same area code without imploding, but Lunars more than any other Exalt have built-in areas of specialty that it's difficult to cross over, and the way it ended up working out it was very difficult to run a plot where everybody got to participate. When the Full Moon was fighting everybody else kind of stood on the sidelines and watched, maybe hit up a secondary objective if I was doing well. The same for when the Changing Moon was talking or the No Moon was doing anything fancy. It's difficult to have all the players engage at once, if you see what I mean?

With Dragonblood especially, every player typically has the tools to engage with every problem and be helpful even while other people are also taking actions. They don't just have what it takes to exist, they can also get in there and do something. Solars and Abyssals less so, instead they actually overspecialise such that making their specialty relevant is a big and expected part of their game, even if the group is taking a different overall approach.

>>96876723
>Damn, cruelty to Sids. I really liked running for 3e Sids
It's a me thing, I think. Every time I look at the book I find something that's just a little niggling piece of fuckery that makes it unpleasant to interact with. A lot of it is that I played 1e/2e Sidereals and liked them, and I liked their vibes and lore a hell of a lot more than 3e's. This is a problem because 3e Sidereals are often coming close to being like 2e Sidereals, and then they shift something just a little bit and it always catches me off-guard. It makes them very hard to run. They also made a lot of design choices I despise, and engage with a lot of 3e mechanics I don't enjoy, and don't allow what I want for a Sidereals game.

>>96876921

Makes sense, personally I appreciate the devs easing off on the "everyone in Heaven hates you" deal from 2e. Makes it much easier to run fun games in Yu-Shan. Mechanically I think they're very cohesive, but I actually like most of 3e's core rules once you clear a bit of the cruft out. Sail and War, I'm looking at you.

>>96876717
I mean DBs are nice because you can run a weaker campaign when high power is still a problem with celestials but if you are running a game that challenges your celestial players your DB is going to be invalidated almost every time. They'd need a niche and then they'd need to ask zero players not to take a few e1 (E3 for solars because fuck solars I guess) to do what they do but drastically better. The dragon blooded charmset feels awful to play.

>>96876717
I´ve also had the best time running Dragon-Blooded, but that´s been due to their weaker power level meaning that it´s easier to come up with interesting enemies and other challenges for them than for other Exalts, and due to their place in the setting offering both plenty of easy plot hooks and plenty of context to help players get in the heads of their characters. DB Charmset hasn´t really impressed me. Aura in particular is just a terrible mechanic, but even aside from that most of their Charms, especially low Essence ones, are pretty underwhelming.

>>96872206
I prefer old school millia, black panty flash is superior.

>>96876290
>>96876603
IIRC being ganged up on is still very lethal.

>>96877184
>I´ve also had the best time running Dragon-Blooded, but that´s been due to their weaker power level meaning that it´s easier to come up with interesting enemies and other challenges for them than for other Exalts, and due to their place in the setting offering both plenty of easy plot hooks and plenty of context to help players get in the heads of their characters. DB Charmset hasn´t really impressed me. Aura in particular is just a terrible mechanic, but even aside from that most of their Charms, especially low Essence ones, are pretty underwhelming.
You're both right and not right, I think. There are certainly a lot of stinkers in the early Dragonblood charmset, but the efficient excellencies forgive a lot of those early sins. Definitely I think the set needs a revamp in the particulars, but at the same time, I think the actual design of it turned out really playable. It might just be that Signature charms and a 'weaker' splat meant smaller charm trees with relatively few dicetricks. It might just be that the weaker charms encouraged engagement with cross-splat materials that it's rare for stronger Exalts to touch.

>>96876953
>Makes sense, personally I appreciate the devs easing off on the "everyone in Heaven hates you" deal from 2e
I'm not even too annoyed when I find those bits - specifically, I'm only annoyed by them removing the idea that Sidereals aren't generally liked, and then not expanding on that to actually explore the open doors, opportunities, and connections that should exist for a popular heavenly Exalt in good standing. The idea that Yu Shan has both become this much more cosmopolitan and inclusive place, but also that Sidereals are less informed and less influential. It's one of the least annoying ideas behind 3e Sidereals for me and it's still difficult to find something untainted and praiseworthy about the execution.

>>96877077
Oh yeah Dragonblood in mixed games are cringe.

>>96877356
>IIRC being ganged up on is still very lethal.
It is indeed. 3v1 Dragonblood vs Solar is a bad time in 3e if they're only good at combat, and 5-6v1 would destroy even Iron Wind optimizers. The issue is that there's a strong limiting factor on how many Dragonblood you can reasonably have join battle, and that player characters tend to group up, so if you have a pretty normal party size even on the low end it's suddenly not a 3v1 it's a 3v2, or instead of a 6v1 it's a 6v3, and those odds are actually pretty bad for Dragonblood vs Solar-tier fighters.

>>96877474
What are Iron Wind optimizers?

>>96877492
Iron Whirlwind Technique multiplying every charm you use to enhance it five times over is a very powerful interaction. Melee's charms that enhance rolls are relatively weak compared to the rest of it's tree, probably because they took into account the fact that it exists. There are a number of artifacts with evocations that interact in very interesting ways with this effect, however...

Basically, it's people who nova Melee multiattacks and dump in all of their motes and willpower straight away to generate a bunch of 'free' value. I mention it because it's one of the three strongest builds relevant to chargen (which are the ones most people care about, because of all the people who are nogames or with way more builds than games), and the best at dealing with multiple opponents of those builds.

>>96877356
Excellent taste anon, though I'm particular to tight.fitting clothes myself. I also didn't post the calculations because I went back and binged gameplay footage of her to make sure I represented her abilities just right. These are my final calculations:
>First off, the basics: Extra Limbs •••
>since it looks like normal hair until she goes for the kill, add Subtlety ••
>I was unsure about adding Natural Weapons (i.e. claws/fangs/etc) because she's never actually depicted killing anyone, but for the sake of argument let's say her hair can be shaped into lethal weapons since she's the Assassin's Guild top killer. Add Natural Weapons ••••
>add Deadly Weaponry •, add Flexible and Piercing tags to her hair attacks
>optional because she's not much of a grappler, but Entangling Limbs could be appropriate, if so add •••
>her blocking animation shows her using her hair to block attacks, so add Natural Shield ••
>she has projectile attacks, so add •• for it being Subtle and Lethal.
>optional: she can make hair-wings, so if you want you can add Wings ••• or •••••
Final cost: Anywhere between 14 and 22 Merit dots.
Conclusion: Anyone who wants to emulate Millia should just stat her magic hair as an Artifact taking inspiration from the Ultimately Useful Tube and render the crazier abilities as Evocations.

>>96878189
I would have just used Extra Limb and had martial arts/Brawl for the rest.

>>96877546
Oh, that makes sense.

>>96877356
>IIRC being ganged up on is still very lethal.
Unless it's a battlegroup. :^)

>>96878189
>Anyone who wants to emulate Millia should just stat her magic hair as an Artifact taking inspiration from the Ultimately Useful Tube and render the crazier abilities as Evocations.
Conclusion: Her hair should actually just be an artifact. They might have said bio-engineering wasn't a thing in 3e, but artifacts with biological components absolutely are, so it's probably just the self-replicating races they really took issue with (though since sorcery can still do that...). An artifact that is a curse that latches the first person to interact with it would also be fine and understandable.

>>96878439
just order them to go one by one :)

>>96878647
That's what I said, yeah.

>They might have said bio-engineering wasn't a thing in 3e
What?

>An artifact that is a curse that latches the first person to interact with it would also be fine and understandable.
Fitting. Though it being an Artifact has the amusing implication that any Charms or effects that sever attunements would render your character bald.

>>96878795
>any Charms or effects that sever attunements would render your character bald.
I think it'd work like prosthetics if it was artifact hair, where they just go limp. Unless the charm/effect also steals the artifact, which is usually the case for the ones which de-attune someone, then absolutely they get stolen (unless they have a provision for the natural tag?).

If it's an artifact curse that latches onto the first person to interact with it, then force de-attuning and stealing it gets you cursed. That's also fitting, I think.

How do you justify your character having Athletics 0 and Dodge 5?

>>96852583 (OP)
>How does your circle travel?
Azure Chariot. Storyteller punished us for getting overreliant on it by making an enemy sorcerer shoot it down with Flight of the Brilliant Raptor and almost causing all of us to drown in the ocean off the coast of Ysyr.

>>96878439
I wonder what would happen you ported over ExWoD's version that has "attack as many times per round as you have Size" and "spend motes just to keep fighting a battlegroup without getting mobbed".

>>96870637
How does it compare with the (current) Demake version?
I've only theoretical experience with both of them, only played 2e and 3e, but Demake seems similarly... restrained? as 1e with more focus on using less Motes more tactically, but then Demake is also more simplified mechanically and has the scaling TN so I can't really tell.

1e Dragon-Blooded were shit because they had no excellencies.

>>96879678
low effort high tier inch-miss dodging

>>96879678
Athletics is more about endurance and bursts of speed Dodging is more about reaction. Your really want both though.

>>96879678
violent helicopter parents

>>96877474
and i feel bad for GMs having to run 15 DB at the same time to be any challenge to the PCs. what a headache.

>>96880797
I can assure you Solar players do not play Exalted for a challenge.

>>96878647
You could also get all that crap with a working, IIRC that's the in universe origin of her hair too.

>>96880589
Actually, they were the ones that had group Excellencies, some of which lasted for a scene. And they were half cost.

>>96877474
As someone who can't grok 3e mechanics, how much do Divine Executioner Stance and Burning Sky Apocalypse Strike + Ascendant Battle Visage actually matter in 3-6v1s? I'm just trying to figure out if there's any reason other than collateral damage why Supernal Brawlers can't just go Senator Armstrong on everyone while flying in and out of attack range. And how much cheese the ultimate Melee charm actually brings to the table, since it seems to be one of those Charms that is nothing but cheese.

>>96876953
>>96877469
3e's rewrite of Heaven is one of those things I rather liked at first and only started to find things to dislike about after closer scrutiny revealing some things that seem to be changed for the sake of being changed (someone completely missed the point of Flashing Peak, somehow lower rung gods are oppressed but a strike was successful at leveraging the higher rung ones, it's nice that Heaven has "dungeons" but it also feels weird Sidereals seem to have less to do with the new opportunities presented).

It really drove home to me even at it's best (and I would argue that 3e Sidereals is genuinely the peak of 3e writing, damning by faint praise as that be) 3e is afraid of constructively expanding the setting, it just wants to put quick and easy, reactionary band-aid solutions on perceived flaws with it.

>>96852583 (OP)
Monthly Update
spooks to you hallowieners
>Predevelopment
Alchemical Companion
Essence Extented
>First Draft
Essence Player’s Guide novellas
Essence Storyteller’s Guide
Sidereals Jumpstart
Exalted Essay Collection lol last seen here
>Post-Approval Development
Infernals: Crowned in Hellfire
>Editing
Riders from the Sunless Lands: The Abyssals Companion
>Art Notes Prep
Champions of the Divine Flame
Essence Player’s Guide
Sidereals Companion
>Art Direction
Essence Player’s Guide
Infernals (Crowdfunding to start soon)
I>Layout
Alchemicals: Servants of the Machine God
>Press
for whatever reason they've split the press section into two subsections, even though all the projects in the other projects section are stretch goals from crowdfunding anyway
>Crowdfunded projects
Exigents: Out of the Ashes: Quoting
Sidereals: Charting Fate’s Course: Quoting
Abyssals: Sworn to the Grave: PDF and PoD versions on sale
>Other projects
Exigents Storyteller Screen: At Studio2
name of infernals comfirmed in crowdfunding updates for the month. some info about it in the last AMAs on reddit these last couple weeks
https://www.reddit.com/r/WhiteWolfRPG/comments/1of1mbu/ama_onyx_path_publishing/
https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/1o957vm/ama_onyx_path_publishing/
the campaigns also confirm the infernals backerkit campaign is set to launch in a few weeks, so before or at thanksgiving in our usual holiday doubleteam hellfuck timeslot between then and christmas

>>96882489
>Infernals: Crowned in Hellfire
[obligatory post about how shit I know it's going to be and how much I fucking hate 3e for promising nothing then somehow underdelivering]

>>96882228
>it's nice that Heaven has "dungeons" but it also feels weird Sidereals seem to have less to do with the new opportunities presented).
This is because 3e changes to the setting is to make it more mortal/human centric, sometimes they do it by just throwing random human settlements.

The changes are for humans-that-happen-to-be-exalted instead of for Sidereals.

>>96882533
It's all so tiresome. None of these fucks will ever understand why playable Dragon-KIngs were even a thing.

the real meta is to invest everything into NPCs because they are not constricted by experience points for their advancement

>>96882591
>into NPCs
Way ahead of you, my COMPLETELY UNDEFINED BY RAW Ambition 3 Solar Working entity that has a Defining Principle of absolute loyalty to me is getting a bunch of N/A artifacts shoved up it's ass.

>>96882533
>This is because 3e changes to the setting is to make it more mortal/human centric
And yet, look at Thaumaturgy.

3e is, and always has been, staunchly anti-fun.

>>96882651
Reminds me of something a wise man once said.
>Aside from the AI-slopped imagery, the series’ only consistency has been its lack of excitement and ineffective use of dice tricks, all to make magic unmagical, to make action seem inert.

>>96882701
That one copypasta about Rowling training you to read Stephen King with the little "No!" is unironically correct about 3e.

>>96882728
Our thread's celebrities are gone, but might as well post anon's pasta for old times' sake.

Exalted is the dullest franchise in the history of tabletop game franchises.

Seriously, each session following the tokenised Exalts and their mortal cocksleeves from Creation as they fight assorted antagonists has been indistinguishable from the others. Aside from the AIslopped imagery and hamfisted political commentary, the games’ only consistency has been its lack of excitement and ineffective use of dice tricks, all to make magic unmagical, to make action seem inert.

Perhaps the die was cast when White Wolf sold all their gamelines to Paradox Entertainment; they made sure their games would never be mistaken for works of art that meant anything to anybody, just increasingly unprofitable Kickstarter scams. The Exalted gameline might be anti-Tolkien (or not), but it’s certainly the anti-LOTR series in its refusal of wonder, beauty and excitement. No one wants to face that fact. Now, thankfully, they no longer have to.

>a-at least the mechanics are better though
"No!"

The writing is dreadful; the book was terrible. As I read, I noticed that every time a supernatural force came up, the author wrote instead it was "numinous".

I began marking on the back of an envelope every time that phrase was repeated. I stopped only after I had marked the envelope several dozen times. I was incredulous. Vance and Minton's minds are so governed by social media and bad crunch that they have no other style of writing. Later I read a lavish, loving review of Exalted by RPGnet. They wrote something to the effect of, "If these players are playiing Exalted at 16 or 17, then when they get older they will go on to get HRT and love Communism." And they were quite right. They were not being ironic. When you play "Exalted" you are, in fact, trained to read Marx.

Hot take: I think that 2e/3e are about the same in terms of fun to stupid shit, and that on some level I feel like the "Exalted is about fighting dinosaurs snorting cocaine on a jet plane!" style of play people allege 2e was about was mostly contained to forums fantasies.

>>96882765
Honestly my only reason disagreement is that I think 2e had more fun shit in the sense that even the stupid shit was at least fun to laugh at or sometimes with, whereas 3e just makes me want to play something else.

>>96881330
kek

>>96882758
Always thought the original copypasta this was adapted from (about Harry Potter) was odd, since it stitched together both a Harold Bloom quote (Bloom being a pretty influential literary critic of his time) and some rando from a livejournal who thinks that James Bond is good (James Bond is yet another disgusting British invention forced upon the good people of Earth like Harry Potter).

>>96882855
>James Bond is yet another disgusting British invention forced upon the good people of Earth like Harry Potter
Now THIS is a based opinion.

>>96882855
>James Bond is yet another disgusting British invention forced upon the good people of Earth like Harry Potter
On the one hand, I feel vaguely guilty for agreeing with a point that Alan Moore felt the need to further ruin the League of Extraordinary Gentleman over to scream at his readers. On the other hand, you're absolutely right. Worse than that, James Bond is also a walking commercial for luxury retail.

Frankly, James Bond doesn't deserve to have Pierce Brosnan.

>>96882870
>On the one hand, I feel vaguely guilty for agreeing with a point that Alan Moore felt the need to further ruin the League of Extraordinary Gentleman over to scream at his readers.
??????????????????

>>96882947
Old comic. Don't worry about it, just know that enshittification isn't limited to DEI and has happened long before 3e.

>>96882971
Curiouser and curiouser.

>>96882971
The tempest is from 2019.

>>96883049
Alan Moore went full Moorcock's the epic pooh, about the British literature.
He may have not actually read the works he was criticizing.

>>96882841
>Honestly my only reason disagreement is that I think 2e had more fun shit in the sense that even the stupid shit was at least fun to laugh at or sometimes with, whereas 3e just makes me want to play something else.
What do you mean?

>>96882841
To me, 3e's removal of the paradigm that the Solars are the people that matter most and everyone else is ancillary to them has made me like it overall more than 2e.

>>96882198
>As someone who can't grok 3e mechanics, how much do Divine Executioner Stance and Burning Sky Apocalypse Strike + Ascendant Battle Visage actually matter in 3-6v1s?
A fair bit, but only in that it takes Solars up to the 5-6v1 sort of area.

>Divine Executioner Stance
Charm is actively bad if you haven't got it set up ahead of time. If you do then it's still adding charm dice and isn't more efficient on one roll than an Excellency even if it's against Defining Intimacies, so it's significantly worse than just spending those motes on something else and using Perfect Strike Discipline if you're doing Iron Whirlwind stuff. The one very strong use case for it is with Circle of Bright Reaving / Heaven Sword Flash spamming a billion attacks, and that is very good at killing a lot of people all at once, but... well, it doesn't actually spam that many attacks for one thing, and for another thing it's very difficult to guarantee that all of your opponents (especially Dragonblooded) are going to be in close combat with you, and if you can't guarantee that - and especially if you get stuck with one or two tanky guys up close while the rest move to range, that strategy just kills you. It's good enough to beat the 3v1 but doesn't do well against spacing.

>Burning Sky Apocalypse Strike
Has a bigger AoE and possibly the best AoE initiative spread out there, but kills all your allies and really really wants you to reset initiative in the middle of as big a pile of enemies as you can find, and if you flub damage or JB even a little it can be a bad time. It also requires a lot of initiative to get started and doesn't generate much from-nowhere initiative,

>Ascendant Battle Visage
It's good but it's not completely unfair except to ranged characters. Clash fights can be good, but as a Brawler you're precluded from two-handed weapons. The best thing about it is that it encourages bunching which BSAS punishes, but against staggered assaults life is hard.

>>96883163
>To me, 3e's removal of the paradigm that the Solars are the people that matter most and everyone else is ancillary to them has made me like it overall more than 2e.
The paradigm isn't removed, Solars do still matter most and everyone else is ancillary to them in 3e. The only difference is that this paradigm is only in the overarching narrative and has no substantive mechanical backing or logical underpinnings arranged to justify it. In 3e, the Solars are the best and matter most because the developers say so and for no other reason.

Two questions for Crypt Bolt Attack in the Abyssals book. Would an upgrade that builds off of Eyes Like Daggers Glance that allows you to use Perception in place of Dexterity for your attack rolls be reasonable? What about a Charm upgrade that lets you use your Crypt Bolt attack for the rest of the scene without needing to spend 2 motes per attack (maybe it costs 10 essence and 1wp to activate?)

>>96884538
The Perception one would be weird. It's a sidegrade and the biggest problem would be how to justify the exp cost. For the other upgrade, Alchemicals have a similar charm with an upgrade where you commit the mote cost of the charm and pay 1WP to extend the charm length to One Scene, so that you'd spend 2m, 1wp once.

>>96884538
>Would an upgrade that builds off of Eyes Like Daggers Glance that allows you to use Perception in place of Dexterity for your attack rolls be reasonable?
Yes, just make it another of the upgrades with Eyes-Like-Daggers Glance as a prerequisite. It's a minor upgrade so it's viable for Accursed Radiance Empowerment.

>What about a Charm upgrade that lets you use your Crypt Bolt attack for the rest of the scene without needing to spend 2 motes per attack (maybe it costs 10 essence and 1wp to activate?)
If you make it a whole 'nother charm, that's fine. You don't need to inflate the costs that high, 5m1wp or 8m flat would be fine.

>>96884846
Eyes-Like-Daggers Glance is great for the simple reason it frees up your hands. Goes really well with a heavy weapons build.

>>96882758
>Our thread's celebrities are gone
You couldn't get rid of me even if you tried.

>>96852583 (OP)
What’s your opinion of sorcerous transport, and what are the best spells for it? What advice do you have regarding sorcery in general?

>>96882758
this copy pasta makes me ashamed to be a human being and if I ever turn into something like that I want you to promise that you'll shoot me in the head.

>>96886237
4/10, you forgot to say you lost your faith in humanity. No upboat for you, my heckin' duderino.

>>96886294
also shoot me in the head if i start talking like this.

>>96886237
Since we´re all anons here - except for Sandact, I guess - and it´s difficult to tell people apart, is it close enough if I just find some anon to shoot in the head upon finding any anon turning into something like that? That´s the best I can promise.

>>96886174
love sorcerous transport. you can basically beat anyone mundane for overland transport. azure chariot for party size and swift wings for army size.

in general, sorcery is slow, long lasting and powerful. you dont really want to use it IN fights but its hard to beat as an utility tool.

>>96886079
>Sandact6 !!4luCdePxFF8
nice try but it's
>Sandact6 !!v9HKBsY3xQ6

>>96878439
Battle groups are inherently made of "unnamed" characters who are trivial on their own. Their only real strength is in numbers, and massive ones at that.

How do the 1e, 2e, and 3e Alchemicals compare to each other?
iirc 1e is an almost-shitshow and 2e is great due to end-of-line polish
Don't remember hearing anything of 3e though.

>>96887368
Strange, dunno why it's doing that. It is me though. Do you need me to prove it by editing one of my homebrew documents?

>>96887503
>1e is highly focused on specific, gimmick Charms like Essence Pulse Cannon. Core social rules rudimentary, which hamstrings social effects.

>2e gets broader in applicability. Charm sets here have to hit some specific areas, but Alchemicals can build around them in neat ways. Social rules not so great, still hamstrings social effects, but there are some nice concepts there.

>3e is broad and has a lot of Charms, but so many that it seems like the writers got tired and ran out of steam toward Wits. Social effects continue to be pretty neat and interesting in comparison with others. Social rules far less disruptive than past editions.

>>96887503
>>96887565
Aren't Alchemicals and their Charms designed and created by the technician guys with Autochthon's Inspiration in 1e/2e?
Because they make their own Charms in 3e.

>>96887503
Mechanically it's better. Lore wise it's just more boring.

Has anyone ever made a properly fleshed out Evocation tree for there characters Glorious Solar Saber/Exquisite Relic Bow/etc.?

>>96887696
In 3e, they still require technical expertise about on par with constructing Charms. Also, I could have sworn that there was a passage somewhere about Alchemical Charm basically being an expression of the foremost technology of Autochthonia, but I can't seem to zero in on it.

(1e was just Artifacts, 2e was Artifacts made by someone with the Alchemical Demiurge mutation)

>>96888635
I've genuinely seen deluges of

>homebrew Devil-Tigers
>homebrew Primordials
>expansions to martial arts, sorcery, artifacts and manses

but not one.
Not a single.
GSS Evocation tree.

>>96882758
Oh yeah, this reminds me.
We have finally lost whatever affection we once had for red panda Lunar gfs, amidst sees of bitterness and acrimony to rival Kimbery herself

>>96883358
>The only difference is that this paradigm is only in the overarching narrative
I'd argue it isn't even present in the Age of Sorrows' overarching narrative, because the most prominent inter-Exalt events there seem to be, in order,

1. The Realm's imminent civil war
2. The Silver Pact's ambiguously successful war with the Realm
3. The Getimian invasion of Heaven

The Usurpation was a big enough deal in 3e that the Sidereals and Dragonblooded suffered much, much more casualties and required much, much more help than in any previous edition. But after that, everyone seems to have stopped caring about Solars in the here and now to the extent the Bronze/Gold faction rift is much less intense in 3e than previously when Chejop was basically being set up for a massive Punk'd moment. Solars, in the present era of 3e, are roughly as relevant narratively as Primordials are.

>>96883353
Thank you and jesus christ, there is something profoundly wrong with 3e Charm design if those shitty "u get a free excellency big boy!!!" Charms genuinely are worth more in pitched combat than a fucking E5 Charm.

The other editions weren't perfect but at least Charms at higher Essence felt like they fucking mattered.

>>96887696
Basically.

3e's changes to the Alchemicals are thus:
>You no longer commit motes to install charms into your slots.
>The ability to reconfigure charms is easier to access on the go; as long as you're bringing about a trusted mortal friend and specially prepared chemical compounds, you can swap out your charms anywhere (although you're still helpless for hours if not days during reconfiguration).
>Adamant Castes are no longer pseudo-Sidereals that do spy stuff that no one can remember. Instead, they occupy a niche as teachers and muses for Autochthonia's citizenry (and also being really strong, since they have Strength as a caste attribute). Their anima abilities shift accordingly to being buffs that help their party members and spread positive emotions.
>You can access the Colossus form at Essence 5 rather than 6+ in 1e/2e. Elder Alchemicals are no longer always compelled to be Colossi/Metropoli.
>Autochthon left a few Alchemicals behind in Creation ages ago, if you desire to play one in the usual setting of Exalted.

I think overall Autochthonia and Alchemicals are in the best shape they've been in 3e. The charm set has no weird gaps for social interaction like in 2e, Adamants are actually playable, you have options to play them in Creation if you want, and the nations of Autochthonia were made a little more interesting (since some of them really lacked an internal conflict that would kickstart a plot).

However, I do miss the bit of fluff in 1e that Alchemicals get bigger with Essence, so that by Essence 5 you're twelve feet tall. I understand why its gone (most places are not built to have twelve-foot tall gigachads and giantesses moving around in them), but what a shame.

>>96888743
I think it is because evocations for these charms are redundant, non-Siderals can already create new charms anyway.

Have any of the books discussed the city/kingdom of Helm? It's looks like the closest major place to the Noss Fens.

If a shadowland opens in an otherworld, something like a Vault of Dreams, Yu Shan, or Malfeas, would it's Underworld have a Labyrinth, and would that Labyrinth connect to Creation's Labyrinth? Would the Underworlds connect?

This is pre-3e of course. The Underworld/Labyrinth are noncontiguous with otherworlds and internally interconnected in 3e obviously.

>>96888985
Don't think so. It's 3e-only and only on the map from At8D without being mentioned in that book so it's probably just another of the unexplained names.

>>96889222
>The Underworld/Labyrinth are noncontiguous with otherworlds and internally interconnected in 3e obviously.
I find 3e's unwillingness to mess around with the metaphysics extremely cringe, they are visibly afraid of doing anything interesting. Period.

>>96852583 (OP)
Is the demon translation guide in the mega somewhere?

>>96889453
...the what now?

>>96889674
>>96889453
Wrong thread.

Oi Sandact, since you've come back from the dead what are your impressions of how Alchemicals are done in 3e, both the fluff and crunch? And since comparisons are inevitable, how does it square up against your own version of 3e Alchemicals?

>>96891376
Blunt truth and reason for my disappearance: My father passed away. I thought I recovered quickly, but it fucked me up more than I realized as making content even for my own game(s) felt like a challenge. I'm writing a new project again so it feels like I've finally bounced back.

As for Alchemicals, I've never read it all yet. There were some bits and pieces I did read, but that was still when I was in a sour mood. My immediate impressions:

- What the hell is with the art. Nevermind the usual art complaints, like seriously the tone is off entirely. It was like I was looking a cyberpunk exalted shard not Autochthonia.
- I really enjoyed how they expanded Loran and Xexas. These were favorites of mine, so they were one of the things I did immediately upon finding out.
- The charms are not bad. In some areas they have some more balance than mine (especially since I wrote my Alchemical conversion before the Solar revamp), but I think in a lot of ways they're missing gaps and some a lot stronger than I thought. Auto-Calibrated Tuning is *a hell* of a lot stronger than something I'd ever consider. But there are some gaps, especially Sail. But then again Sidereals didn't have a single charm about naval warfare so I'm pretty sure the devs have just abandoned it, and no one even cared to notice. I also may be based but I liked some of my charms better, like the ability to turn your blood into poison magma is more metal than Toxicity Filration System, even if there's nothing wrong with it.
- The Alchemical dice cap surprised me. I get why they did it, it makes them powerful out of the gate, especially since in Ex3 it's a long time to Ess 3 whereas in Ex2 it was a hop. But I did like how alchemical started out weak and then with proper investment could roll more dice than Solars.

>>96893186
>Blunt truth and reason for my disappearance: My father passed away.
My condolences man,

>I'm writing a new project again so it feels like I've finally bounced back.
I'm looking forward to it. BTW NTA, but my first experience with your content was DB Ero Charms.

>- What the hell is with the art. Nevermind the usual art complaints, like seriously the tone is off entirely. It was like I was looking a cyberpunk exalted shard not Autochthonia.

Overall, I feel like current artists are unable to capture the Epic Fantasy aesthetic in all splats. Or Epic Sci-Fantasy in case of Autochtonia.

>>96893186
>But then again Sidereals didn't have a single charm about naval warfare so I'm pretty sure the devs have just abandoned it, and no one even cared to notice
Really ironic all things considered, since this is the reason for why 2e!Infernals also didn't have it.

>>96893342
>Really ironic all things considered, since this is the reason for why 2e!Infernals also didn't have it.
Even Kibery charm set didn't have it?

>>96893186
>- What the hell is with the art. Nevermind the usual art complaints, like seriously the tone is off entirely. It was like I was looking a cyberpunk exalted shard not Autochthonia.
I'm not sure what you mean here.

>>96893656
Only a single one,maybe 2.

http://ninjasensei.wikidot.com/yozi:kimbery

>>96893186
are you ask eager for infernals as i am and has it been awhile since you last managed to run/play a pnp game? for the first bit bit no you are not but what do you think.

>>96889222
i dont think shadowlands CAN open in yushan/malfeas/autochtonia........?

>>96894542
>>96894698
Stop typing like a drunk twitter-addicted nigger, holy shit. Proofread your fucking posts.

>>96893656
kimbery charms where in an expansion called broken winged crane, not in the infernals corebook so it was pretty much an afterthought.
(i did love the "use daiklave as surf board" charm. lintha akuma be flexing when boarding you)

>>96893186
You think the alchemical dice cap is strong? It feels a little weak too me. They have DB style caps until E2 and they don't equal solars until 5.

>>96880539
What's the demake? ExWoD? ExEss? I haven't looked at the first very closely and I have a heart disregard for the second. Unless you mean 3e. In which case...

IMO 3e's main problem is the whole initiative mechanic which a really clumsy attempt at simulating the FF Dissidia Brave/HP mechanic and is annoying and unrealistic, combined with abstracted crap like range bands and so on. 1e is ALSO fiddly and annoying but its main purpose is to make mortal-level combat risky as hell and feel like you're betting your life every time you decide to make an attack without splitting your pool for defense, while Exalts can just add dice or take reflexive defenses at will to represent their superiority. The limitations of active defenses also indirectly make passive defenses more valuable (you don't need to actively soak attacks, after all).

Also, bringing an army suddenly becomes a tactical advantage in 1E since every single one of the 400 mortals attacking you can play the "hope you roll low on your defenses" lottery and nickel and dime you to death (or at least wear you down). DB circles don't throw that volume of attacks so they can't hope for RNGesus to help them, but they have other tricks they can use. And yes, I know rolling that volume of attacks and defenses is an absolute pain and I am glad 2e and onwards simplified that. But 1e was how I was introduced to Exalted, and it has a place in my heart as the perfect balancing point of grittiness and power fantasy.

>>96883144
nta but 2e felt much less pretentious and tryhardy than 3e. Like, 2E was an attempt to expand on existing stuff in 1E while keeping to the spirit of the thing while 3E just wanted to rewrite things and jingle keys/memberberry you into liking it.

>>96895198
>What's the demake?
NTA but the demake is a fan edition of exalted made by holden the same dude that developed the first 3e books, then was fired and wrote EXvsWOD and now he's working on the demake aswell as a new expansion for exvswod called the black vault.

>>96895218
Oh, so it IS ExWOD. I'll have to look more closely at that, then.

>>96895236
>Oh, so it IS ExWOD
Not quite; originally the demake was going to be EXvsWOD but in creation proper with the same system as everything just small adjustments but at this point the system has evolved to be very different to the one used in the world of darkness.

I don't understand the purpose or the function of the Influence merit. This shit literally doesn't do anything. Or maybe it does if the ST feels like it.

What is the ideal number of Intimacies to have at character creation/session 1?

>>96895392
>I don't understand the purpose or the function of the Influence merit. This shit literally doesn't do anything. Or maybe it does if the ST feels like it.
It gives you social power and position. It makes you an established local power independent of greater power structures. It means you aren't laughed out of the halls of power - and yes, Exalted have ways into the halls of power without Backing or Influence, but all of them make people react as if you are a threat (and probably a crazy person), because you are.

>>96895651
Except it doesn't give you anything. You do realize that social power and position is actually based upon something, right?

You know, things like Allies, Cult, Command, Retainers, Resources, Contacts, Followers... It's not just a fucking slip that says "I have social status."

>>96895684
>It's not just a fucking slip that says "I have social status."
Influence is a slip that says "I have social status."

It's up to you to justify it.

>>96895555
Around 4~6, depending on how atomized your character is.

>>96894753
Compared to the past? Yea. Ex1/Ex2 Alchemicals had a dice cap of Attribute straight. You could get higher attributes, but that was tied to essence. You're investing charms, slots, and motes to get extra attribute dots. Compare this to the freely increasing cap in Ex3.

>>96894542
I still run games, one Ex3 with a player using a homebrew infernal and the other being a pokemon game (I felt like I needed a fresh slate and wanted to try another system). Both the player and myself are curious about Infernals as while we're thankful for the homebrew we're using, it has a lot of charms that are *really* jank. So much so that he's considering respeccing his 375 BP character (not XP, BP).

>>96895717
And just like a real slip, it doesn't actually work.

>>96895770
>>96895684
Being a nepobaby is a great way to social power and influence despite not having any of the things you mentioned.

>>96895787
I don't think you even know what a nepobaby is.

>>96895787
(Disclaimer: Your Influence rating might be harmed by doing things such as torturing your pet in front of an audience of thousands.)

>>96895684
>Except it doesn't give you anything.
Yes it does. If you're a resident of, for the sake of argument, the Coral Archipelago and you have Command and Retainers but no Influence (Coral Archipelago) you're not one of Coral's plutocrats, you're just a mercenary captain. If you have Backing (Coral's Plutocrats) that means you're under the wing of the aforementioned Plutocrats, but having Influence instead of Backing means you're one of them. Does that clear things up?

>>96895827
Except I could just say that I am in my backstory and nobody would even think to mention the influence merit.

>>96895837
>Except I could just say that I am in my backstory and nobody would even think to mention the influence merit.
Except they would. At least, I would, if you tried to just give yourself exceptional social power and not buy it with an appropriate merit/background. If you wrote yourself as being best friends with the Bull of the North in your backstory without taking Allies, mentioned you'd buried a thousand talents of jade in your back yard without taking Resources, or described yourself as the last heir to the Volcano Cutter's shrine without taking Artifact, I'd take exception to that, and this is no different.

>>96895861
You don't need a merit to be the citizen of a place. Don't even try to pretend.
>exceptional social power
It's a sticker that says "please respect me :)"

>>96888985
Only mention we've gotten of Helm was in Many Faced Strangers. It's part of the Shadow Fang Vanguard's domain.

"The Vanguard’s territory spans the Northeast. Its dominions include the forested fastness of Sifar; Helm, its rolling hills rich in silver and tin; and the fortress-city of New Dakuo."

I wonder what sort of relationship they have with the Dowager since they're pretty much her closest neighbors.

>>96895871
>You don't need a merit to be the citizen of a place
You'll note that every merit rating 1+ is higher than basic citizenship (outside of states where proper citizenship and not just residency is itself exceptional, like some of the slaver states), and that the basics are covered by Influence X/0. This is an asinine attempt at shifting goalposts. If I am immensely charitable it might have been an accidental, brought about by not ignorance from someone not reading the books and getting mad about something they've only noticed by osmosis. If that is the case then educate yourself, if it's not then you're a fucking asshole.

>>96895926
I'll note that it's completely and utterly fucking meaningless, and any kind of actual influence is much better represented with the other social merits that provide tangible benefits instead of completely imaginary ones that are entirely up to your ST.

Makes the ST's job easier too when they don't have to fucking figure out what your character can or cannot achieve completely arbitrarily during the actual session.

CofD has a system that allows you to temporarily cash in your "influence" equivalent into the other, actually tangible social merits, even stuff like artifacts if you're talking about the likes of Mages.

Ex3's Influence doesn't do that. It's just a sticker.

>>96895964
>other social merits that provide tangible benefits
With the same metrics and bias you use to discount Influence applied to other merits, you will find that Allies, Backing, Contacts, Followers, Mentor, Retainer, and Resources are also meaningless. None of them have any meaning and are just stickers that say "X respects me!". Allies, Contacts, Followers, Mentors, and Retainers don't show up or help unless your Storyteller feels like it (which I will point out is precisely your stance on Influence >>96895392). Backing is just a sticker with no 'actual meaning', or at least not any more than Influence. Resources are a nothingburger because money is meaningless, literally slips that say 'I have value' with no real bearing on reality.

>>96896042
Except all of those merits objectively give you something while Influence doesn't.

>>96896051
>Except all of those merits objectively give you something while Influence doesn't.
What do they give you, precisely? Note that I excluded any merit with mechanical backing or impact, like Cult or Command.

>>96896058
What are you, retarded? Try reading them.

>>96896061
I did. By the metrics you discount Influence, none of them give you anything. That's why I'm asking what YOU think they give a character, not what they DO give a character.

>>96896065
>I did.
So then you're just pretending. Have fun with that.

Putting this extremely retarded conversation between us, what naming scheme for Infernal castes is better and why? And for those that liked neither, what would you suggest instead?

>>96896221
*behind us, not between us

>>96896221
>Putting this extremely retarded conversation between us, what naming scheme for Infernal castes is better and why?
2e's names are significantly more cool and striking, and aren't any less indicative of what the castes are, so them. In fact, they fit what Infernals are in 2e better than the 3e Infernal castes fit what Infernals are in 3e, so straight up better on all fronts, yes. The only thing I've seen to make people like them less is that they're drawing from some part of WoD that those people don't like so they shit on them by association, though that seems like an awful way to judge things to me.

If I was doing caste names myself I would go even further into the 2e style and call them by their associated Yozi. Slayers are now Malfeans, Malefactors are now Cecelynes, Fiends are now Ebon Dragons. If this causes confusion and makes Sidereals wonder if the Yozi are doing mass jailbreak then all the better. If Infernals associate more closely with their patron since they're acting directly in their name then that's probably cool so long as the gangrapetrain induction stuff is out. If it makes the Infernals crash out about how they're not as good as their namesake that's cool too.

>>96896302
>2e's names are significantly more cool and striking
They're pretty stupid. They're like a kid rifling through the thesaurus to find different words for "villain".

>>96896340
They're just stolen from Demon: The Fallen caste names. Which sort of makes sense since they're fallen solars and demons are fallen angels.

>>96896433
Doesn't fit very well with the rest of the setting (as is usual for 2e Infernals). I prefer the 3e Infernal caste names being focused on astronomical positions, same as how the Solars and Midnights are named, so as to show actual continuity between Solars and Infernals.

>>96896453
>Midnights
Abyssals*

>>96896340
>They're pretty stupid. They're like a kid rifling through the thesaurus to find different words for "villain".
Yeah? Villain names that are villain names are significantly cooler than 3e trying to convince me basic geometry is all cool villain names.

>>96896511
>implying Infernals are villains

>>96896537
Next I'll say Abyssals are bad guys.

>>96896583
>implying Solars are good guys

Wherever I am, I must rape. (Defining Principle)

>>96896771
Are you an average male character from Kuroniu?

>>96882645
"Mortal centric" doesn't mean mortals get to do shit. "I have no mouth and I must scream" characters get a lot of screen time, doesn't mean they enjoy it.

>>96895555
Whatever the ST seems appropriate for the game.

>>96897467
That's a non-answer and you know it.

>>96897503
And it is right. If you want a general guideline just put 2 or 3 down, enough to detail the character without being a problem.

>>96882645
3e is a PvE game with only PvP support, similar to Fallout MMORPGa, where the players had to act like questgiver npcs

Does anybody have Leetspeake's 3e writeup for Angyalkae? I tried to open the document but it tells me to ask for access first, and he's long since retired from the community.

How well does an Essence 1 Night Caste or Abyssal/Infernal equivalent fare in their areas of expertise (i.e. stealth, assassination, espionage) against an Essence 3 Lunar with the same areas of expertise?

>>96898615
A lot comes down to Charm investment and such. In general the Essence 3 Lunar should be a bit better, but if the Night Caste had Supernal in that Ability and went all in on it, they'd be able out perform the Lunar, but the Lunar will be much better at everything else.

>>96898814
Come to think of it, what Lunar caste is the closest to what Night Solars are?

>>96895236
what >>96895218 and >>96895280 said, the current version's at https://files.catbox.moe/229v91.pdf

>>96895555
Max you can start with is (Compassion)

>>96899383
Changing moons, but they have a identity crisis, since they got the social attributes.

>>96899746
Everything about Lunars is a mess.

>>96899383
For what value of what Nights do?

If you're talking about sneaking around and picking pockets, usually Dex-heavy Full Moons.

If you're talking about breaking shit and moving, other types of Full Moons.

If you're talking disguise masters, it's any Lunar who decided to take on someone's form, which can be done non-lethally in any Attribute but by default involves eating someone and making sure the leftovers won't be found. Though, Changing Moons do get a bunch of effects to help shore up this capacity and keep others guessing.

If you want someone who runs a criminal underground operation, probably a Changing Moon.

If you want someone with secret hiding places, a No Moon.

Any and every one of these capacities is actually related to an Attribute, so you can mix and match via which two you favor.

>>96899746
Just because Scroll of Heroes in 2e tried to draw an equivalence to various archetypes of heroic mortals doesn't mean it was correct in doing so. In fact, given that it was SoH, you can probably discount it safely out of hand.

>>96896058
I see what you're saying and I agree with you. So much of those merits are just "Whatever the ST thinks up" and while I don't want to say the merits are uncool or unhelpful, it's very... in the air. As opposed to say, that charm that lets solars punch lasers.

Tbf that vagueness also makes them damn powerful because anything that can possibly break the action economy in this game is insanely powerful. Or utterly useless, depending on how the ST stats things up.

>>96895758
I think I know the one you mean. To me the biggest issue with it is that it's basically an alpha. None of the charms were ran in a game to see how'd they work in play even if tons and tons of work went into it. I also don't think the creator has like, system mastery. If that makes sense. Still, it's incredible homebrew and I wish work was still being done on it. You have to basically rewrite every charm though at least a little soooo...

Quick change I'd make for it though is stealing from what 3e is apparently doing and making those perm charms not gate entire charm trees. After that it's really just one Yozi at a time... Then I suppose you'd want to try and keep as much spirit from the 2e charms as possible. Qafian right?

>>96896221
I like them both but I guess I prefer the 2e naming scheme. It has more edge and feels more out of place, which I really enjoy. I don't really get the space themes of the castes now or how they tie into the Yozi. Are they just called that because they dictated how the sun and moon should move in Creation to make it work and this is there way of rubbing it in? Do those words even work on a flat earth?

All in all I'm not super worried about it. I just hope there is an incredibly petty reason in lore for them to have chosen those names. The pettier the better.

>>96900091
I was talking about 1e, in it, changing moons were animalistic shapeshifting rogues specialized in guerrilla warfare.

Because of this Red Jaws was the old iconic, despite not being a social focused character, and the spy master Lilith was stated as one.

>>96899585
I really like how Demake is somewhat of a return to 1e's more tactical and gritty style, even if it's got the universal Excellencies for the splats.

>>96900372
Wasn't Lilith supposed to be a warrior first, infiltrator second?

>>96899922
Terrifying Argent Witches had a right idea how to make Lunars interesting and unique.

>>96900408
In 1e, each direction was assigned an elder, Lilith was the center/Blessed Isle one.

>>96900488
Here is the 1e's description of changing moons.

Strange how 2e is blamed forb1e things.

>>96895555
2 minor, a major and a defining.
The defining can be the principle.

>>96899585
I think that anon is playing 3e.

>>96901899
People do this because they don't want to admit certain things about 1e and get really defensive when it gets pointed out. It's especially used to show how "authentic" 3e is. Mechanically, at this point I want a 4e but the writing is just awful and boring. I don't get why the writers are bad at making the world seem real.

>>96902085
Only people who are left are doing it for virtue signalling and to milk the hardcore fans who remain. Onyx is pretty much a vanity press at this point.

>>96902085
>I don't get why the writers are bad at making the world seem real.
It is hard to explain; but I think some setting direction/vision just ended up lost through time.

For example; "Creation is a strange place/time that will become our world", instead it is now "Creation fantasy setting with strangeness lurking in it".

And during beast debacle, a complaint was that Onyx Path was becoming too "jungian"; for example, instead of becoming a dragon, you use the idea of a dragon.

Which may explain the charm design, "becoming smoke to dodge an attack" vs "dice tricks representing the idea of smoke to dodge an attack".

>>96888775
>We have finally lost whatever affection we once had for red panda Lunar gfs, amidst sees of bitterness and acrimony to rival Kimbery herself
What happened? :(

>>96902655
>Which may explain the charm design, "becoming smoke to dodge an attack" vs "dice tricks representing the idea of smoke to dodge an attack".
I think this is the part of 3e I despise most. I think it's most clear in martial arts. Ebon Shadow Style used to let you turn into a shadow and do shadow assassin things like teleport through shadows and seem dead. Now it makes you wobble like a shadow for bonus dice, or use the shadow strike attack that does bonus damage, or have bonus dice on faking dead, or run faster in a shadowy way. They've gone from having real, solid powers that have appreciable effects in the world, to having arbitrary mechanical powers that only effect the system they've created to arbitrate conflict in the world.

>>96902792
>b-but but, Dream Courtesan lets you transform into carp!

>>96902822
Those 'real' charms do exist in 3e, just like the arbitrary mechanical powers that're everywhere in 3e do exist in 2e and 1e too. What I'm saying is that 3e has ransacked 2e's 'real' charms to turn the vast majority of them into mechanics patches, leaving itself overwhelmingly full of do-nothing dicetricks that have no meaningful impact in the world, only on the systems we use to engage with the world.

Invoking the Chimera's Coils is fine, as far as these things go, in 3e. At most I can say that making Willpower rolls to avoid fading from reality was much cooler than dying when you hit -4s. Dreaming Courtesan is one of the least effected, but even there the whole social and crafting parts of the rest of it got stripped out to nickle and dime the combat system's mechanics some more.

>>96902911
>even there the whole social and crafting parts of the rest of it got stripped out to nickle and dime the combat system's mechanics some more
Touched on a nerve there. Yeah, Martial Arts should have permanent upgrades (both merits and Charms) and non-combat utility to be in line with their themeing as spiritually transformative disciplines. If we're gonna have every book have a Martial Arts *and* Sorcery then Martial Arts should be made a viable alternative to the Do-Anything Button that is Sorcery, instead of "combat Charms that are lamer than your native ones"

I swear there was an official 3e write-up of Seven Devil Clever somewhere, but it's not in the Lunars book or anything. Am I looking in the wrong place of just hallucinating?

>>96903288
>Seven Devil Clever
why do you want stats for a trash 3e character?

>>96903304
She's a trash 1e character, thank you very much.

>>96903315
you are right I confused her with the new fox one

>>96900372
It didn't really work in 1e, either. Even if there were shapeshifting effects here and there flagged for Changing Moons, you would often have to go through a bunch of physical stuff for them, and of course, vice versa and all around. The Charm bush cares not for your caste; you will be made to feel PAIN looking at it.

>>96903337
I never said it was good, I even mentioned the problem with them also getting the social attributes.

1e's Lunars' castes as intended, would have required them to be ability based instead of attribute.

>>96903397
That, at least, is the sad truth, since they got the Dragon-Blooded authors on it in extreme haste after the original slated author became very ill and had to bow out.

>>96903288
Anyone?

>>96903288
>>96904058
The write-up is in Adversaries of the Righteous.

>>96903315
>>96903304
I'm pretty sure she aldo had write up in 2e core book.

>>96904099
It's always the most obvious place and yet the last one you look. Thanks, man.

How do you make Demake sorcery casting like 1e/2e?
Just assign individual mote cost to spells, or use Terrestrial Mote Max/round at E3 for Terrestrial spells, Celestial Mote Max/round at E4 for Celestial spells, and Solar Mote Max/round at E5 for Solar spells?

>>96904953
You'd need to assign individual mote costs to spells and give them a 1/2/3 round minimum cast time. A fifth of the normal success goal (rounded up) as mote cost is about right. I wouldn't base it on your motes per round, some spells are seriously worth way more motes than others. Do note that doing this will completely fuck over anybody trying to play a serious second/third circle combat sorcerer compared to how they work in Demake by default, and buffs up dragonblooded sorcerers a bit. Mortal sorcerers start using the martial arts rules to cast spells, which sucks for them but there you go.

>>96904953
>How do you make Demake sorcery casting like 1e/2e?
Why would you want to?

>>96905016
Sorcery was never that big on combat casting anyway, since avoiding DnDism

>>96905101
I prefer old sorcery to 3e style

>>96905113
>Sorcery was never that big on combat casting anyway, since avoiding DnDism
It's still worth considering. Blast spells aren't good, but buffs and debuffs have always been reasonably effective, especially in groups where you can have people in a backline unmolested for a few turns.

Oh, and I have a few homebrew terrestrial spells, if you'd like them. I needed more since I was running a hardline sorcerer. They've been through two different Storytellers at this point so they're probably okay for balance, or underpowered maybe.

>>96905165
of course I'd like them, thank you.

>>96903668
I am pretty sure it was a cope, since Grabowski went out of his way to nerf Lunars afterwards and went "didn't like? Do better in 2e".

And the Lunar portrayal was consistent across 1e

>>96902911
>Defining Principle: I really fucking love instant noodles
>I am now a bastion of indomitable will and sheer determination great enough to stare down the gods and make them blink

>>96902792
Holy shit so much this. The weirdest part of 3e was when core came out and it seemed like they wanted to have their cake and eat it, to the extent some Charms are described as LITERALLY dodging attacks after they happen, and God-King's Shrike having a confusing explanation where the Solar is literally predicting things so accurately they come true. Soon after core though they erred towards just being as generic and vague as possible.

Sidereals blatantly benefiting from author favouritism/passion as a buffer against shit like this just rubs salt in the wounds.

>>96902737
I honestly think we're all just more jaded and fed up with the game. Even 3efags come across more interested in shitting on the older editions than explaining what the new ones actually bring to the table.

>>96905228
Really the entire development of Exalted in hindsight feels like it's riddled with cope and people trying to pretend their mistakes were done on purpose, it's just more apparent in 3e because they ran out of cool things to write about so the halfassed coping is more obvious.

>>96905277
>Defining Principle: I really fucking love instant noodles
>I am now a bastion of indomitable will and sheer determination great enough to stare down the gods and make them blink
I get what you mean but this is a bad example because it would only come into play if someone tries to stop you from enjoying a nice steaming bowl of noodles.

>>96905282
In 1e Lunars case it is the opposite, they say that their bad design choices were caused by outside factors ("Lunars were meant to be NPCs!!!", "why didn't have enough time!!", "we lost the early drafts", etc...) despite old comments leaving it clear that Lunars were as Grabowski envisioned them.

He even praised the charm design.

The only instance of a writer admitting that they screwed up, was Rebecca in a post several years later.

>>96905228
>And the Lunar portrayal was consistent across 1e
You meant to since 1e. Ok maybe they got a bit better in 3e and Essence but they still are pretty bad.

>>96905375
Wrong. They got better in 2e, then 3e walked back all their character development to make them one-note Realm-hating furbarians all over again.

>>96905198
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mCZHYlZ77gAvnqn1DG0D5sSTJYj4Z42IUxo28G8HFgQ
Sorry if the formatting's a bit fucked, it didn't respond well to copy/paste and I can't be arsed making it look prettier.

>>96905375
I meant that, since I was talking about Grabowski's vision in specific.

>>96898141
Any anons out there that may help this poor wayward soul?

>>96905397
Theor meta in 2e was idiotic. They wanted to build society of mortals that is not depending on Exalted to lead and rule while there are literally threats (Yozi, Infernals, Deathlords, Abyssals, Fair Folk) thst literally demand Exalted existence to counter.

>>96905559
Societies that can be self-sustaining without Exalted interference are excellent things to have the world full of when there are a thousand world-ending threats that only the Exalted can deal with threatening Creation. If the world doesn't need Exalted rulers managing everything to keep itself from falling apart, all of those Exalted can instead be saving the world from the world-ending threats instead of hanging around casting Summoning the Harvest or Speed the Wheels or guarding the bureaucrats necessary for the world to keep turning or hunting the unbound first circle demons that pop up in Creation through natural processes.

>>96905559
>>96905642
Yeah, who the fuck wants societies that can keep themselves from imploding without the local superhuman demigod's constant babysitting? What a retarded waste of time.

>>96905401
thanks, I'll have a gander when I get off from work

>>96905113
>I prefer old sorcery to 3e style
Why?

>Starmetal Alchemical in Skyrim during TESV
>goes around calling himself a knight and hero
>has red soulgem on his forehead
>actually gets knighted
>literally PELIN-EL