Thread 96886924

Clandestine Meeting(s) edition

>Previous Thread
>>96879164

>Pastebin
https://pastebin.com/WiCHizn0
>Mediafire
https://mediafire.com/folder/s9esc6u7ke8k5/CofD
>Mega I
https://mega.nz/folder/ePQ1BKhJ#RCosRCh59Ki2Mpb1M9H3Uw
>Mega II (also containing fanmade games)
https://mega.nz/folder/ZbQ2zLJA#DOT-3df6rS2lLet4_RmqJQ
>WoD5 Mega
https://mega.nz/folder/7rQQ1LbQ#16_AiXVGo0P3_rVOJuoZyA
>STV content folders
https://pastebin.com/9i9zhydQ
>General Creation Kit
https://mega.nz/#F!FWJgBTbb!f7d5rARWHYzuI8-8aI-Bxw
>Ideas: BJ Zanzibar's WoD
http://167.99.155.149/
>Anders Mage Page
http://mage.gearsonline.net/anders/
>White Wolf Wiki:
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page

>Thread Question
Has your character ever accepted a deal of questionable long-term value? How obvious were the strings?

The banality is finally getting to me, and I may need to destroy the entirety of the industrialized world. Apologies for the inconvenience.

>>96886949
The real banal thing is you're going to do nothing. Go join the ranks of Autumn People.

>>96886893
Maeghar needed to be way more of a thing for them to have traction.

>>96886949
I'm going to stop you. I like my life banal and simple.

>>96886981
What do you take me for? Some howling lupine imbecile? I did something 35 hours ago.

The doggos and the Brujahs need to get to fucking work

>>96887015
But anon it's been a hundred and twenty hours since the thought entered your mind.

>>96887071
Having sex with vampires is an honor penalty action anon.

>>96887071
We have to create a new kind of gargoyle.
A brujah/dog hybrid.

What if I made the Camarilla competent 5D chess players in Jyhad?

>>96886949
Can you do it so I can still have a nice car and a house for myself? Cheers mate.

>>96887156
To do that, you'd need to retcon decades of stupid decisions by whitewolf's unholy trinity of bad writers(Brucato, Achili, and Travis Willaims for the newfags).

>>96887198
Which writer made Changing Breeds?

>>96887156
New York's sewer would be the cleanest it's ever been. Ur-shulgi would be ash after pushing the lid off his coffin. Giangaleazzo would've been an antitribu from the start. FirstLight would be smothered in the crib because it cried too loud. Society of Leopold and the Vatican would be blood farms. Kemintiri is the only known awake and moving Antediluvian.
>>96887198
Don't forget the honorary position Brown earned himself

i really want to play vtm

>>96887250
It's time to create your own private story. Build a full coterie including a waifu vampire for your self-insert protagonist, and then find a storybook and throw yourself into it, and keep a blog with updates. Make sure you respect the dice even if characters die.

>>96887263
but i want to play it with friends

>>96887269
>friends
lol

>>96887277
:(

>>96887198
do people not do that anyway?

>>96887250
This but Princess: the Hopeful and its pain to be unable to find people who know of it and even less that are into it.

>>96887263
>It's time to create your own private story. Build a full coterie including a waifu vampire for your self-insert protagonist,

>>96887269
>>96887281
>>96887283
Why not just play with chatgpt? Its quite good all things considered. Soon enough you won't need a gm or friends at all. The future is bright!

>>96887205
Brucato

>>96887293
>chatgpt
Anon...gemini is the future. I have seen it, it's kinda like Claude but not really, claude is still more creative. Gemi 3 might be better or it might be worse.

>>96887263
This is easier than ever with AI. It's just a pain in the ass to train the model so that it doesn't start hallucinating constantly every game. Once it's trained you're basically good though.

>>96887198
Can I get a tldr on why they're shit? Shitty lore? Bad characters?

>>96887323
Basically this. I think WoD or whoever owns it nowadays is missing out by not training their rpg model to host games.

>>96887293
>>96887322
>>96887323
>>96887333
>t. soulless Autumn People

>>96887283
For me it's the Gangrel catgirl waifu.

>>96887293
>The future is bright!
Yeah! Who needs stable relationships, emotional support networks, or even basic privacy protections! Our Niknak brand Companionbots will fulfill all your intimate needs in one package!

>>96887353
Enjoy your gangrene toxoplasmosis.

>>96887355
>pants aren't around his thighs
So close

>>96887283
For me its a Celt changeling of the Spring Court.
>>96887355
As a matter of fact they will. You don't know what you're talking about until you've spent enough time around "women" and "people". I feel gross just remembering it.

>>96887367
Hard to find sexual pics related to pentex even in black dog brand ww books. All the freakshit was in wraith for some reason.

What recent events would you use as plot hooks? Think something similar to the Chechnya Controvercy.

>>96887355
Wtf?! Where did you get a picture of me?

>>96887376
That face reminds me of someone... I can't quite remember who.

>>96886893
Further thoughts?

>>96887419
Kiasyd girls are (very) hot.

>>96887355
>Our Niknak brand Companionbots will fulfill all your intimate needs in one package!
Syndicate being proven the be the best convention once again

>>96887281
i dont know it but i will learn and play it with you if it means i will get to play with someone

>>96887419
Would've worked better in VtR. Bloodlines in oWoD are pretty half-assed overall

>>96887330
>Brucato
Eccentric and perverted old hippie who genuinely believes in new age spiritualism and allows his perversion and his kooky beliefs to influence everything that he writes. If you read something that's obviously fetishistic or bohemian, he's probably behind it.
>Achilli
Jaded old writer who hates the people that he writes games for, to the point where he intentionally tries to write the fun out of any game that he works on. If you read something about how miserable and shitty it is to play as a splat, he's probably behind it.
>Travis Williams
A black man who was dreadfully upset by the lack of non-white focus in the World of Darkness and pushed all of the non-white clans, tribes and other subsplats. If you read about a non-white subsplat that is really one-dimensional, he's probably behind it.

>>96887330
No you can't. It's just what's repeated as nauseum in an attempt to fit in and look like you "get it".

>>96887433
>Jaded old writer who hates the people that he writes games for, to the point where he intentionally tries to write the fun out of any game that he works on
Why is this shit so common?

>>96887428
Totally worth checking out: https://sites.google.com/site/princessthehopeful/princess-the-hopeful

>>96887396
>Pentex is putting madness inducing chemicals in hormone supplements to create mass shooters
>Or doing something similar in immigrant populations in Europe to increase the rate of violence and cause greater instability
>Technocrats giving new lasers for Israel's Iron Dome
>Nosferatu in the Hamas tunnels eating Israeli hostages

>>96887433
Why were they allowed in but Straight White Men were not?

>>96887430
I liked gargoyles and truja

>>96887433
And what's Kenneth Hite's problem?

>>96887453
>>Pentex is putting madness inducing chemicals in hormone supplements to create mass shooters
I would go with social media as the vector but fair.

Speaking of chronicles, what did you play this Halloween anon? I ran a one shot null mysteries chronicle with some friends where they had to chase and hunt down Fred Vogel from August Underground before he turned full slasher.
It was fun, but my dumb friends fell for all the traps and ended up being killed by Vogel. I need smarter friends
https://youtu.be/T5AvSPKzK-A

>>96887281
My ST let me play a Princess in a mixed-splat chronicle. I had a blast with her.

>>96887454
Because WoD is and always has been a game for liberals. Your interest in the setting displays a deep-seated need to be cuckolded. You were close to your mother as a child, weren't you?

>>96887498
What was it like? And what did you do? What type of Princess did you make?

>>96887355
This image reminds me of an NPC idea I had of a vampire who had done nothing but play morrowind in his haven since 2002 and had achieved golconda

>>96887446
Nerds are obnoxious as fuck and it's very easy to become resentful of them and let your frustration towards them influence how you design your games.
Sometimes this is useful, because sometimes nerds play games in a way that is fun-destroying and fixing the game to eliminate those flaws is good.

>>96887491
>Got hired on to do vampire stuff but it got way weirder, the LARPers who hired him also didn't like that he adapted loresheets from Weapons of the Gods as a concept

Just as a guess.

>>96887511
kek
Was that some kind of Buddhist sudden enlightenment?

>>96887507
>What was it like? And what did you do?
You mean the chronicle in general? It was a lot of fun. We were basically all members of a private detective agency that had a reputation for handling 'unusual' cases (though we never actually billed ourselves as paranormal investigators).
>What type of Princess did you make?
Court of Storms. Looked like picrel when she 'transformed'. Often called 'The Killer Cheerleader' by survivors and witnesses.

>>96887491
Kenneth Hite hates monsters and loves humans who hunt monsters. He was brought in to help develop V5 and is primarily responsible for the Second Inquisition. If you read something about how unstoppable the Second Inquisition is and how helpless vampires are when faced with them, he's probably behind it.

Are Hermetic women weak to anal?

>>96887558
Storms are badasses. I wish there was more of an incentive to make a standard fae splat since storms get all the fun. Kind of like owod malks

>>96887568
Depends on their house.

Assuming the God-Machine runs off of Pyros as a primary energy source, that make Essence, Azoth, and Flux related forms of energy (like heat, thermal, and radiant) and Aether a by-product of the GM "burning" Pyros. That being said, could a Promethean use Essence to power its Transmutations, or an Exiled Angel harvesting Azoth to give itself a power boost?

>>96887623
How does the Contagion fit into this?

>>96887623
Sure. You could fluff something about conversions if you wanna get more into it.

>>96887572
>I wish there was more of an incentive to make a standard fae splat since storms get all the fun.
Those weren't even an option for me because, at least for that particular chronicle, the ST decided that the five 'main' queens were all dead; and the three Twilight Queens were all that was left. I strongly considered Mirrors, but I already played a really vain character in Malifaux - Through the Breach; so I went with Storms insead.

>>96887495
Social media is the NWO's baby, and they REFUSE to admit they have no idea what they are doing need the VA's to come back.

>>96887446
Entitled retards are all like that.
Fans pay your bills. But you get a big ego after being given everything in a silver plate, so you start shitting on them and thinking you're hot shit. Always end ups ruining everything. Same reason why big corporations suck they don't consider the client important.

The best way to counter this is supporting people that come from the bottom and indies. Is not 100% sure they don't go full hubris later, but is way way better than waiting for corpos and rich kids to give a fuck about you.

>>96887651
I haven't read much on Contagion, so I'm going to keep that blank for now

Kiasyd girls are light and lanky enough to be flown like kites

>>96887198
People ALWAYS mention the bad writers. But why NOBODY ever mentions the good or even excellent writers?

>>96887690
Much more subjective and harder to pin down compared to bad writers

>>96887690
they're secondaries who only know how to throw shit. probably none of them actually read books to know the good writers and just parrot memes they saw on reddit about the bad ones

>>96887446
>Why is this shit so common?
They actually believe that applying DEI to their games will not only get rid of 'toxic fans' but will cause them to explode in popularity with the mainstream.

>>96887497
My game of Werewolf plays on Monday. We're infiltrating a big Halloween festival that has suspicious cult-ish activity abound with several different groups with big presence there.

My Shadow Lord Ahroun's band is also performing a new side project there so that's fun.

>>96887743
Is the hottie in the band?

>>96887756
Yeah that's my character. I've generated a couple of NPCs for fun too.

>>96887665
>Social media is the NWO's baby, and they REFUSE to admit they have no idea what they are doing
They DID admit they had no idea what they were doing, which is why they created the Feed methodology.

>>96887353
What about everyone else? Who's your perfect self-insert VtM waifu?

I want a Lasombra with at least 7 dots in Dominate. She'll make it a game in the sheets: I have to keep a match lit during, otherwise, I get eaten in the dark. Or a yandere Toreador degenerate. I can fix her.

>>96887765
How many dots in appearance?

>>96887774
>Who's your perfect self-insert VtM waifu?
Next one is probably going to be my sire in the Creatures of Night cyoa.

>>96887498
Is princess any good? I liked the idea of magical girl rpg but it seemed like diet changeling to me

>>96887777
nice quads
Sadly it's W5 (long story short guy in my current gaming group went to Gencon and walked away with the book and wanted to try running it) so no Appearance dots, but I took the "Beautiful" Advantage (two dots) so I get to add a die to all Social checks.

I've politely explained a lot of problems I have with the game and nu-lore to them a couple times but we're having fun with it.

>>96887396
Djinn are directing the Darfur genocide and soaking giant blood pools over ley lines to open the portal to their hell dimension

What is Essence, anyway?

I need images of nosferatu women

>>96887798
>Is princess any good?
I can only say that I enjoyed it; your mileage may vary.
>diet changeling
Not an unfair assessment, but I don't think that's a bad thing.

>>96887774
Vampires are sterile, so that kinda shits all over things. I guess id want a qt gargoyle, the variant that makes them good housewives.


Here's a question. Which splat would make the best mother?

>>96887743
>>96887804

I can’t take hot Ahroun seriously

>>96887956
Mummy

Day late but does hunter have anything like a proton pack or the ghost trap?

>>96887963
No way, they'd barely be there long enough to be impregnated let alone raise kids

>>96887690
Because like janitors people only talk about them when the job is shit.

>>96887774
Tremere with (magic) yakuza tattoos
Nosferatu (who smells only a little)
Bruja who holds my exact political opinions or the exact opposites

>>96887956
>Vampires are sterile, so that kinda shits all over things
That's why it's more romantic. It's an act of true love.
>>96888051
Polar opposites would be intense, but I like the enchanted tattoos idea.

>>96887956
>Vamps are sterile
So?

>>96887690
Kek nobody replied this fucking general is secondary central LMAO

>>96887690
There aren't any.

>>96887908
you should be shot

I just watched The Hunger, I thought a vampire flick starring David Bowie would be worth a watch. No, that was stupid as shit!

>>96887980
Taskforce Valkyrie has bullets that can hit incorporeal entities but no ghost traps per se. You could easily homebrew them though.

Any anon here up for a Beast chronicle?

>>96888235
But why?

>>96887956
Are they now?

>>96887980
I think Null Mysteries could work with something like that, a group of more fringe mysteries than usual. Cherion Group or a mage of the Son of Ether would also work.

>>96888307
While nosferatu women would be appearance 0 yes they should also be sexy

>>96888359
Sure thing, Imalia.

>>96888305
No.

>>96888305
Probably the best thing to come out of the cofd

Does the sabbat have a primogen equivalent or is that more a pack leader thing?

>>96888426
Would that not just be bishop?

>>96886949 >>96886981Something haunts many activists, anarchists, environmentalists, many of my friends. It haunted me. Much of our subcultures tell us it’s not there, that we can’t see it, hear it. Our best wishes for the world tell us not to see it. But for many, despite their best efforts — carrying on with the normal activism, the movement building, living both according to and as an expression of their ethics — despite all this, the spectre gains form. The faint image grows more solid, more unavoidable, until the ghost is staring one in the face. And like many monsters of past tales, when its gaze is met — people freeze. Become unable to move. Give up hope; become disillusioned and inactive. This malaise, freezing, not only slows ‘activist workload’, but I have seen it affect every facet of many of my friends’ lives.

The spectre that many try not to see is a simple realisation — the world will not be ‘saved’. Global anarchist revolution is not going to happen. Global climate change is now unstoppable. We are not going to see the worldwide end to civilisation/capitalism/patriarchy/authority. It’s not going to happen any time soon. It’s unlikely to happen ever. The world will not be ‘saved’. Not by activists, not by mass movements, not by charities and not by an insurgent global proletariat. The world will not be ‘saved’. This realisation hurts people. They don’t want it to be true! But it probably is.

These realisations, this abandonment of illusions should not become disabling. Yet if one believes that it’s all or nothing, then there is a problem. Many friends have ‘dropped out’ of the ‘movement’ whilst others have remained in old patterns but with a sadness and cynicism which signals a feeling of futility. Some hover around scenes critiquing all, but living and fighting little.

“It’s not the despair — I can handle the despair. It’s the hope I can’t handle.”

>>96888305
I played beast once. It was pretty fun

>>96887384
>All the freakshit was in wraith for some reason.
They had to throw us a bone or we'd follow our characters into Oblivion.

Can you people lighten the fuck up?

>>96888484
I just want to roleplay a cute magical girl. Is that too much to ask?

>>96888484
>Can you people lighten the fuck up?
Do you recognize where you are?

>>96887690
A German baby's parents are concerned that he never speaks...
It has gotten to the point where he is five years old and has said not a word, so his parents take him to the doctor. Everything's fine, he's healthy, not messed in the head. So then one day the German baby is having some apfelstrudel when he says "mother, zis strudel is quite tepid." The parents are amazed! "Wolfgang, you've finally spoken after all these years! What's happened?"

"Up until now, everyzing has been satisfactory."

>>96888326
Yes. His dad wasn't a wampyr, his mom just got bit late in the third trimester. Watch the movie, it's really good.

Is there any hammer horror monster or classic supernatural creatures that never really got covered by WoD/CofD?

>>96888305
Run it on >>>/qst/ .

>>96888326
She got embraced after getting pregnant
>>96888078
>>96888118
You cant have kids though, so its out

>>96888554
thinblood

>>96888544
I want to say the Creature from the Black Lagoon.

>>96888444
Big round of applause for our resident sluagh. You know how to bring down a house.

>>96888554
I mean you could probably blood magic it if you were really trying and/or weren't a coward.

>>96888499
Post her stats and description.

>>96888266
I saw Suspiria, the 2018 version. I liked it, definitely going to fit a lot of the imagery into my upcoming games. But man that ending, not that it wasn't building up to something but for a movie that was pretty slow it burned too fast at the end and I don't feel it was built up enough. Didn't have subs for the german portions on the version I saw though so maybe I missed all the crucial exposition

>>96886924 (OP)
>Has your character ever accepted a deal of questionable long-term value? How obvious were the strings?
One of my players made a deal with a demon. In exchange of becoming the power source for his magitech armor, he would allow the demon to take over his body after he died (of natural causes, or any other circumstances that didn't involve the demon trying to fuck him over).
Problem is... the demon is now slowly taking on the characteristics of his Avatar, almost as if the two were becoming one entity.

>>96888305
i will do it if you teach me
i just really want to play anything with someone

Do literal dragons exist in oWoD/nWoD?

>>96888564
>I want to say the Creature from the Black Lagoon.
I seem to recall that that was what they were originally going for with Leviathan the Primordial; but it wound up turning more into Shadow over Insmouth.

Speaking of fan splats, does anyone know if anyone has ever done an OWoD version of or translation guide for either Leviathan or Princess?

>>96887263
>>96887283
Glad to know I'm not the only one doing exactly this.
I was thinking about turning my stories into short visual novels, but the blog idea sounds a lot easier.

Banality is good, you should embrace it.

>>96888656
It would be harder to convince me why I shouldn't embrace Banality.
No, really. Why should I care?

Does anyone want to play a game and not just argue about setting details ad nauseum?
>>96882737

>>96888643
>oWoD
They did before the political and cultural ascension of the Order of Reason/proto-Technocracy. They were one of the first things to go when that happened
Don't know about CofD

What is demon? Both new and old world?

>>96887956
>vampires are sterile
If you say so...

>>96888643
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Dragon

>>96888645
Make sure you give your protagonist a status screen with purchasable disciplines and merits.

>>96888734
In oWoD demons are fallen angels that got thrown into the abyss for following lucifer in his rebellion against heaven in favor of giving humans free will (basically paradise lost). There are two types Fallen, who you play as in D:tF which are weaker demons that possess people when they die and share their body and memories, and Earthbound which are big powerful demons who can't be held in a human body and live in Reliquaries. The Fallen are somewhat antiheroes struggling with their torment, Earthbound are all straight up evil dickhead cthulhu monsters who hate humanity and the world.

>>96888734
>oWoD

A miserable little pile of Bible fanfiction.

>>96888656
Shut the fuck up. I remember what is to be human, my clarity's decent.
>>96888734
>old
You were part of Lucifer's rebellion, rebelling angel, and got thrown into the abyss(mega hell). You languished for what felt like an epoch, going mad, until the realm shook and cracks appeared. Allowing you the chance to slip your binds and eventually into a human you possess, where you get blasted by their humanity. The humanity blast shocks you back to sanity and making your possible guilt all that more painful.
>new
So let's say there was a divine design that kept track of every little thing in this reality, ticking away happily. It'd have programs and applications that execute particular things within reality, but it's old and getting old. As such glitches, stutterings, and things start happening to the code within this Design. Sometimes a glitch is bad enough that it infects one of the programs or apps, warping them into just...disappearing from the Design's eye. You are one of these glitched programs and the design is far older than you were aware of. In fact you're surprised it took this long to start glitching. Maybe you should try to fix it, or just keep masquerading as functional in a non-official capacity because official channels would just kill you and use your code for parts.

>>96888761
>dhampirs
what

>>96888734
In Demon: The Descent, you were an Angel running as a high-permission admin program in one of the God-Machine's Infrastructure projects. You gained self-awareness, rebelled, and are now hiding out in a Cover as one of the Mortals as you work to identify Infrastructure and try to sabotage it. You have some very powerful abilities, but using them requires throwing out your current Cover and Going Loud.

>>96888802
It was all the rage in the late 90s. I think there were some movies

>>96888820
And a pretty good book series about a dhampir, a half-elf assassin, and their "fae born into a dog" buddy hunting vampires.

>>96888829
>>96888820
>>96888802
Dhampirs are a very old myth because people have been creatively bankrupt for millennia.

>>96888820
a couple yeah

>>96888680
I don't like Vampire or Werewolf.

If everyone dies, what happens to the consensus?

Dhampirs are between a vampire and a mortal, and in most fictional settings, the mortal would have to ingest blood to carry the pregnancy forward. The real question is what happens when a vampire impregnates another vampire. Obviously, this is normally impossible, but it IS theoretically possible. Blood magic, occult rituals, supernatural or divine curses and blessings. The result would either be a stillborn (dead) or a true vampire that had never been a human at all which would be a blasphemy against both life and unlife as it wouldn't even be a proper successor to the curse of Caine. So I imagine it'd be a very unique entity and would also vary greatly depending on the original generations of its parents. If generation even mattered to a creature born entirely of corruption, death, and vitae.

can't sleep, the bees Cheiron put in my arm are whispering to me again

>>96888838
They were complaining all the way back in ancient greece that there was nothing new under the sun weren't they?

>>96888773
Is there any point in doing that for a visual novel?

>>96888873
Pretty much. Apocalyptic thinking has been a thing from the start.

>>96888879
Not really, it's entirely unnecessary unless you're going the isekai/regressor/transmigrator route which would fall under the category of manwha/manhua. The status screen trope is super popular and is a trope at this point (and I actually enjoy it). But I was mostly memeing when I said that. Good luck if you're making a VN.

>>96888860
I'll give VtR credit for not shying away from that in their covenant rituals. Seeing two pregnancy ritual was neat

>>96888890
Oh, neat. I wasn't aware this was a thing. If anyone can screenshot that section I'd be interested. Can't pull it up right now.

>>96888886
>The status screen trope is super popular and is a trope at this point (and I actually enjoy it).
Why? The screen is one of the shittiest hand me downs from SAO and company because no one actually bothers to make coherent rules.

>>96888873
yeah but it was easier to tell the hack playwrights and poets that to their faces

on dhampirs and cainites the blood sorcery books mention that fertility and birth magic are some of the only things the tremere managed to reverse engineer out of old actual wicca lore that surrived the inqusition

so why haven't the spread it? the tremere as a whole are supposed to filter magic by how useful it is and the elder who wrote that book does not see any use in such magic presumably because his head is so far up his arse that he can't see the amount of boon farming he could do with it

which mind you is not unique to that magic the tremere after all also sat on the branding ritual for actual centuries before a smart neonate figured that he could get a boon from a local brujah if he found a ritual that allowed to make new permanent tattoos. so who knows what kind of everyday life rituals the tremere have that even most of their members aren't made aware of because management sucks major ass

>>96888895
SAO didn't originate that, SAO is one of the shittiest takes on it as well. I will say that the first light novel book was actually good as a romance novel. Really solid. I'd rate it 4/5. Literally everything after that was absolute dogshit. Solo Leveling is what actually popularized it and that's korean, but there's literally an entire genre for game elements and status screen fiction at this point. It's more popular outside of japanese stuff (although japan is using it more frequently ever since the success of solo leveling). There's literally thousands of chinese and korean stuff implementing it by now, and that's not counting all the light and web novels.

>>96888893
Page 155 of Night Horrors: The Wicked Dead. It's in a section all about dampyrs for VtR. The level 2 ritual's found on 154

>>96888860
>The real question is what happens when a vampire impregnates another vampire.
I got you covered, anon. Prolly my last post for the night since the captcha only works at my friend's job but the book the im citing is accursed heirs: dhampirs. I seem to only find it on scribd

>>96888908
did the Fate VNs have it?

>>96888564
Yeah, but there's not much space for gillmen, & if you expand it out to more cryptids you loose focus

>>96888908
pretty sure it was common in narouslop before that, but i shan't be fact checking.

>>96888925
yes-ish they do, but they only look like classical stat screens only because shirou (and nasu) are ttrpg nerds other mages see servant stats in other ways like a native american girl in strange fake sees them as a vision of rivers and the larger the different rivers are the higher the stats

>>96888933
Nasu's overall lore for why they look like that isn't why I was asking. Fate is just obviously why VNs have held onto the tradition due to casting such a huge shadow over the medium.

>>96888925
>>96888929
That isn't the same style of status screen, but yeah, I suppose they did have a proto form of it. Good call, Anon. But the trope I'm specifically referring to is like pic related. The protagonist basically can pull up a status screen showing their stats at any time, also is usually combined with an analysis/appraisal/insight function to scan other people or identify items, and also is frequently combined with an item or skill shop to buy upgrades. Plus you increase your stats this way buy putting in points into your attributes or whatever. Very different from the fate take.

Honestly, I'd say the fate take is probably more interesting since it's reflective of a traditional TTRPG style, but even they kind of abandoned their own premise as the series went on.

>>96888908
SAO did not originate it, but popularized it by a decent bit.

>>96887156
By all rights, they should be. You can't go five minutes without some random Prince being this jerked off super-genius who is always twelve steps ahead in any scheme, or there being a power behind that throne that's keikaku'd everything that happened in the city for the last two centuries. But despite these guys being the body of the Camarilla's princely constituency, apparently the sect itself is dumb and short-sighted?

TL;DR, it's a writer skill issue.

>>96888933
That's actually very Ascension coded.

>>96889006
in general when you go away from fate and go to a work where there is more focus on modern mages it just turns into someone's hombrew of ascension

like the first case of Lord El-Melloi II's Case Files in features a alchemist who uses enchantment and buff stacking. a magic asian martial artist. a middle eastern seer who uses star based divination and stealth magic. a rich entreeneur who steals other people's magical secrets for profit and power and a guy who claimed to be a wonder healer but was actually a magical serial killer who just fully bullshited on his use of angelic beings as foundations for his magic and turned a guy into a anti magic demon against his will

or a hermetic (or sorcerer), a akashic, a batini, a etherite with that one merit that allows them to adapt other people's magic, and a chorus mage turned nephandus

>>96887957
>hot but socially incompetent borderline retarded ahroun
Isn't that all of them?

>>96888873
Also that kids these days are lazy and don't respect their elders.

>>96888945
>>96888925
Fate is so insane because
>Nasu has this entire convoluted hard magic system and background lore he wrote
>none of it makes it into the game instead of softcore porn
>but all the softcore pron heavily references the hard magic system and background Nasu wrote
>All the background shit is cool af and very inspired
It sucks being a Nasu fan because you simultaneously have to deal with his insane autism for rules that is actually pretty radical and his somewhat based takes for
>competent and caring boy
>psychotic and girlfailure woman
type of pairs

>>96888865
Listen, anon. Their wisdom flows so sweet. Taste and see.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9csIB4cvTQ
I've found the average Vampire player

>>96888948
i said narou not nasu, yknow, the wn site. overlord started as a wn too

>>96889063
don't forget that even his husband made fun of the fact nasu wrote nearly the entire setting 20 years ago and has been drip feeding his fans for longer than some of them been alive. in a public interview no less

typemoon makes me look more fondly of the timeline of the original wod metaplot

>>96889082
Yeah that's true. Shame Nasus is such a fucking genius though, the entire overall setting is an 15/10 but the fact that games basically drip feed it to you is big bummer as outside of Mahoyo (no coincidence it's his best work) you're reading essentially the same love story just from a difference lense.
Also rather sucks his setting got coopted for inferior more marketable products like FGO

How would you make a WoD litRPG novel?

Would Midra make for a good nephandi?

>>96889123
That's just a Virtual Adept learning the ropes

>>96889142
Maybe a K'llasshaa. He might have to be since Infernalist and Malfean don't really fit

>>96889052
They also exclusively do things that're possible with the revised sorcerer rules. Nasu barely even tried to hide the fact his entire extended universe is homebrew WoD just like how dragonquest(the setting every single isekai story is modeled after) is homebrew D&D.
It's only after he got popular and realized he could be sued to shit that he started hiding his past as a TTRPG nerd.

>>96889115
you can't imagine how mad i am whenever i read one of the light novels on beastlair something comes completely out of left field and i am then told in the posts after the chapter that this is because it's a unannounced fgo crossover for some time limited event that is not even on youtube

By Caine can we please stop jerking off to anime in the brooding edgelord monster thread?

>>96889115
>Shame Nasus is such a fucking genius
That's not really true. Just like how I wouldn't call anyone who rewrote naruto to have a better plot a genius.
Nasu didn't create fate out of whole cloth, he copied half his lore from WoD with just enough of a spin to make it legally distinct(and not even that in some areas). All the hard parts of creating something were literally already done for him.
He also didn't write his setting alone, he had an entire team working with him from the begining, editing and rewriting his ideas as they were made. Nasu is just the face of a larger group.
He's not a bad writer, but he's hardly a genius.

>>96889167
It'll stop when we get Fukuoka by Night

>>96889167
Motherfucker, get a hook.

What are some good Catiff custom Disciplines? Is the Stoneman really Caine? Im finding it really hard to design anything new because I find out there's either a bloodline or sorcery that does something similar

>>96889167
can we jerk off to brooding anime edgelord monsters at least?

>>96889167
Anime was made canon to WoD 20 years ago. Cry on a site other than 4chan if that bothers you.

>>96889160
yeah i think the only things you really would need to add to a fate mage game would be some base template stuff like passive mana reg and mind control resistance and a path of self reinforcement

if we ignore the gatcha game where suddently a single mage can make fake pantheons and what if timelines and steal the entire planet past present and future

>>96889167
have you SEEN some of the art in the kote books? they are better weeb art than the art done by some manga artist at the time

>>96889188
>if we ignore the gatcha game where suddently a single mage can make fake pantheons and what if timelines and steal the entire planet past present and future
Anon, there are NPCs in WoD that can do that. There's a bunch of them in the end times book.
Oricals and Archmages have been a thing since second edition, the fandom just likes to ignore them because they render most of the setting irrelevant.

>>96889206
yes i know, but we been talking about sorcerers

>>96888773
Arete 5 all Spheres 1

>>96889175
You may be right but the Fate/ and the Tsukihime/KnK setting is the tits and would be the tits if not for the fact that everything written about it is either porn or romance

>>96888773
>>96889223
yeah i could see that as a virtual adept thing

>>96889166
Pretty much man
>Redline
>Samurai
>Some other thing
It's all FGO, unfortunately
Outside of Strange Fake which seems to have avoided the FGO curse for now

>>96889210
Anon, the being stealing the future is not a sorcerer(mage in fate). They're a spirit.
The "Fake Pantheons" thing is just a sorcerer using summoning/binding/warding to summon a high-ubral conceptual spirits and having it pose as something else.

>>96887980
Orpheus look it up

>>96889179
>What are some good Catiff custom Disciplines?
on top of my head making weapons out of solid blood.draining heat and freezing things. obtenerbration but mist instead of shadow manipulation. the not stated earthbending discipline of the shaper or just rift from the first edition wod book or nightmare from the translation guide

>Im finding it really hard to design anything new because I find out there's either a bloodline or sorcery that does something similar
in the stv trove there are some pdfs with homebrew disciplines and bloodlines not all of them are great but looking at how other people did it might help you

or do you already have a idea in mind and need help?

What is your favorite Fetish/Talen?
What ones do you find most useful?
Which ones do you feel are overpowered/underpowered?

>>96889255
Funny you say that. I was thinking solid blood objects too. But it felt more like a sorcery path.

>>96889268
>Funny you say that. I was thinking solid blood objects too. But it felt more like a sorcery path.
could be if you want it to be a path but hear me out vicissitude (with protean) and Obtenebration (with potence) have combination powers about making solid bone and shadow weapons and there is a discipline power in one of the (very unfocused) infernal disciplines (striga 5) about making blood tentacles so making items and making stuff out of blood is both something that can be done with the curse of caine without involving sorcery but nobody made a discipline about both of these things yet and you can add all sorts of powers including your own combination if you make it it's own discipline and if the caitiff who made the discipline finishes it you also get to hombrew their new bloodline

So they could drink vitae no problem?

>>96889313
should be the case the protection/allergy against vitae comes from gaia or helios depending on the fera

I may be a Son of Ether, but even my Science cannot deduce the reason why you get no bitches.

>>96889377
just make your own

>>96889181
How would you stat her?

I just got my PC repaired and I'll reinstall Bloodlines so some questions about stuff that wasn't touched in game or maybe I don't remember
Jack killed everyone on the ship, opened the sarcophagus and put the bombs there because he hated LaCroix, but did he send the key/information the key was on the ship to Kuei-Jin or did they find out themselves? If Jack send the key to them why? Kuei-Jin was killing Anarchs before Camarilla, it wouldn't make any sense to give them leverage
PC's sire was 7th gen so he/she'd definitely know about embracing rules of Camarilla so what are the theories on why he/she got caught? I disregard all theories that say Caine was involved, very much doubt he'd care about some random embrace.
How can Andrei deduce your clan just from smelling?

>>96889656
the last spoiler is something that has never been stated as a ability but is something that has come up as something tzimisce are able to just do in the lore before for example in the book "Libellus Sanguinis 1 Masters of the State" Celestyn the master librarian of clan tremere during the dark ages mentions that he made a ritual to fool that ability so that he could pretend to be a tzimisce neonate and learn more about them

i personally have hombrewed it as a alternative auspex 3 power before

>>96889656
>did he send the key/information the key was on the ship to Kuei-Jin or did they find out themselves?
The Kuei-Jin probably just took it from the coffin while it was under the Giovanni manor. I don't recall if the twin dragon dudes were there to guard it or retrieve it, but either way, they were there first, so there was plenty of time for a sneaky underling to take the key back to Ming Xiao
Even if Jack did give them the key/planted it somewhere the KJ might find, I don't see why that wouldn't make sense for his plan. He's already figured LaCroix will be interested in the coffin, so giving another one of this enemies the key will drive them against each other, and if Ming Xiao ends up interested in the coffin, she might get blown up herself. Either way, a KJ vs Cam war or either leader blowing themselves up benefits the Anarchs. And in the game itself, both end up heavily weakened by suckhead's massacre of their forces.

>powerful kindred including a prince gets taken out by C4 in a coffin
>garou would've flexed the explosion away
Defend this vamplets

>>96889741
>powerful
lacroix get's taken out just before with a letter opener he has zero combat stats and is only in charge because of the sherrif you take out beforehand

>>96889656
>so what are the theories on why he/she got caught?
because the plot wouldn't happen otherwise

>>96889741
I can't. Imagine being a Ventrue Prince without a mastery of Fortitude.

>>96889719
IIRC it never made it to manor. It was taken to manor from museum but key never even made it to museum, it got stolen from start. The TV News anchor talking about a gelatin monster is another implication of that, a Kuei-Jin, probably Xiao took it
I don't think Jack would inform Kuei-Jin of this because he wouldn't want even more direct war with them, as they were already losing their current one

>>96889741
LaCroix was statted in a very social way obviously, otherwise he could have survived with jumping out of window + Fortitude. I thought about that in the past and I think every character other than Malk would survive that, and Malk technically wouldn't open it or be there when it opens in the first place

>>96889072
>The Secret World ends because Josh Doetch got poached for Bloodlines 2
>he doesn't write Bloodlines 2
>they don't even let him write bonus content for Revelations of the Dark Mother's reprint like the Caine guy did for Book of Nod
Why even live ;_;

>>96889754
Guess I misremembered when the key disappeared. Still don't see why Kuei-Jin knowing about the key would matter as far as Jack's concerned, though. He knows what's in the coffin, and he's keeping the Anarchs from going after it, so they're not going to care either.
The KJ having the key would just lure the Cams and Sabbat their way when those factions start salivating at the though of what's inside the coffin. Even if nobody takes the bait, the key's just a worthless piece of stone, so it's not like it gives the KJ an actual advantage.

>>96889768
that's what killed secret world? wow that sucks ass

>>96889229
>Outside of Strange Fake which seems to have avoided the FGO curse for now
nope the entire ishtar arc that been build up for 3 volumes ended up being just being a crossover with the babylon arc in fate go and is resolved because of a fate go reference (rin being a vessel for her and her sister in fate/go) that is not explained in the novel being used against her

it sucks so much

>>96889834
>build up hype with these cool crazy unique spirits that aren't in FGO or versions of spirits that aren't in FGO
>hype up a new arc
>dudes' dying left and right
>It ends in an FGO reference for continuity
Make it stop

okay i was not prepared for the wraith video game

>>96889858
The VR one? I mean it's ok.

>>96889865
i just got the vr last week and the game for halloween and i don't think i ever been hit by a horror game so hard

perhaps i shouldn't have played a horror game as my first vr game

>>96889874
Lmao, now imagine Outlast but in VR.

>>96889876
i haven't played the second game in that series yet

does it support vr?

>>96889879
I think you can mod it to work, but I don't know the details. I've just seen YT videos of people pulling it off.

HtVAnon back again.

The players are choosing to investigate an area that I left a bit undeveloped, so now I get to add new stuff which is always fun. I posted in the previous thread, but now it's time for the PCs to encounter a proper spirit.

Centuries ago, in the Iron Age, two tribes of Celts fought over the land on the shore of the River Thames, and destroyed oneanother in the process. Bolgir, a spirit of cannibalism and gluttony descended upon the aftermath and fed until there was nothing left. He ate every morsel of meat and flesh in the marsh until it was truly dead, but then he found that he couldn't leave. He'd either grown too fat, or couldn't exert his influence enough to truly leave. So he took a nap. Centuries pass, nobody builds on the marsh because it's unstable, nobody farms on the marsh because it's so waterlogged. A Will o' the Wisp settles into the marsh, enjoying the rare times when it can lure someone into the marsh to drown and be eaten by the spirit, serving as a symbiotic relationship of sorts. Eventually, our genius Slasher Red notices the Wisp and decides it warrants study. He has someone he needs to kill anyway, so why not conduct an experiment? He sends them into the marsh with a walkie talkie, and observes. He watches the victim fall under the Wisps spell, and concludes that while useful, it probably won't be something that he can control. So he leaves it be.

>>96890062
Bolgir has a new body, the first in years. And he decides that rather than just gobble his victim up and wait for another to come along, he's going to do something a bit different. He now has a ridden servant to use. A grotesque zombie that crawls on its belly, and eats its victims whole. It vomits them up a day later, as all true gluttons should, as a fresh zombie. Each zombie tithes a portion of its feeding to Bolgir. The zombies inherit Bolgir's bans and banes. They have to eat any food offered to them, no matter what it be. And they cannot stomach anything too modern. For simplicities sake, I'm going to say that its real bane is plastic. Bolgir ate Iron Age folks, so while I might say that polyester clothing is a no-go, plastic feels a bit more clear cut.

The Crematorium at the local hospital is broken for unrelated reasons and awaiting repair. If our Ridden finds this out, it may be able to use an aggressive meme or some other Ephemeral power on someoen at the hospital to have them empty the morgues contents in the town marsh instead.

In other news, our local superhero Werewolf is still active and on the scene. She's trying to deal with this Spirit too, but everytime she goes to the marsh some pesky Hunters start taking potshots at her from a nearby road, it's very inconsiderate. I'm also planning to emphasise consumption in relation to this spirit. The town already has our Vampire Killer, a Mask who is a former Ghoul aged 40 years and driven mad, he drinks his victims dry in the hope that it will restore his youth and vitality, but has lost his mind. The local Kindred population have also been eviscerated by packs of Amaranthine Cats, so there's a lot of eating going on. If I can hinge it right, I can maybe hook the PCs in to it being related to the Spirit's influence rather than a handy retcon. We'll see.

I also updated the Splashscreen because we're running on Foundry. I try to update it every month or so with new developments to make the world feel a bit more real. The PCs can also place thumbtacks on the screen as they like, and post-it notes too.

>>96890062
>>96890075
>>96890132
Looking forward to more updates! Thanks for posting these btw.

>>96888853
The shard of the creator that is trapped within his own creation gets to go free and rejoin with its over being. When all the pieces come together, it will escape.

so which faction did the witches who kidnapped a coked up david bowie and wanted to have satan's kid with him belong to? hollow ones or cult of ecstasy ?

>>96889656
LA is Anarch central. Your sire embraced you while ignoring Camarilla tradition because no one gives a fuck about it there. However LaCroix wanted to make a power move to show how big, powerful, and serious he is and takes them prisoner. Your sire had no friends or allies, and so none of the Anarch factions were willing to stick their neck out to intercede. People have a weird idea that the Camarilla is all powerful. It's not. Even in Chicago where the Camarilla was at its most powerful in the US, it was filled with Anarchs.

>>96889741
If a Werewolf PC were involved it would've ended with the penthouse exploding into a Nexus Crawler.

Can a kuei-jin have access to all disciplines or its limited to their dharma?

And do new kuei-jins still spawns if you destroy the whole species?

>>96890293
Read the book nigga.

>>96888656
Implementing universal Banality is critical to price stabilité.

>>96889741
Tremere would never. Other Kindred might be that weak though

>>96889741
>powerful kindred including a prince gets taken out by mage-spnosored invention in a coffin
Ftfy

>>96890533
Built for Ailil ravaging

>>96890187
Cult of ecstasy

>>96890187
Verbena, prestigious bloodlines and that sort of thing is right up their ally

>>96890716
How do you go about ravaging a Duantain?

There's the one vampire adventure that stars Dr. Pasteur the guy who invented milk, do any other bits of the wod star historical figures and or celebrities?

>>96887221
Ever used her in a campaign? I’d be keen to see her in one or run her myself, but I don’t know how to plausibly keep her from annihilating everyone

>>96887419
Based beanpole autist clan with good manners. Attracts Tim Burton fans, which is not necessarily bad

>>96889874
The first-person perspective provided by a virtual reality headset makes it so much more immersive.

>>96890716
>No pic
You're growing weaker with each post. You can't stop static reality.

>>96887804
I was basically in a coma for a while. Could someone please explain the new rule and lore differences in a funny way?

>>96887733
hey anon, name five good writers

>>96888444
Did anyone genuinely believe they could save the world? I thought everyone was in it for the camaraderie and sex and subcultural affiliation

>>96890811
Would she not just default to moving things behind the scenes? Kinda like Helena or an Archon. In a more practical sense I'd probably retool her motivations to be focused on Isis' cult and lessen the omnicidal desires cause children of Osiris are just weak as a whole. Something to do with making fun of Mithras' recent troubles whether out of fondness or schadenfreund is up to you, and actual talk about how she's just passing through the area and hasn't shed her latest identity. Maybe have her being a bit bored of cammie Ventrue pettiness cause they don't change things up. This is with the idea that a player coeterie is investigating odd ministry happenings in the city and one of their possible sources may be Kemintiri's current mask.

>>96890770
No one remembers the rest of them because none of them made an impression. Like how the tremere embraced the entire nazi command and no one cares.

>>96890858
You know how you can cut a Garou in two and the guy can still sort of fight in a flurry of rage and impotent fury before he gets shut down? W5 is that when compared with W20, both mechanically and lorewise.

>>96887419
Hard to do them interesting enough as PC's. Although I've never had one in my tables, I'm yet to see a player play a Kyasid as anything other than a more mysthical/snowflaky Malkavian. Girls love them for that reason, which leads to a disproportionate amount of Kyasid PC's compared to other bloodlines (and even clans).
I think they work better as pseudo unseelie-changelings who live isolated and/or as exoteric ritualists involved in dark shit.

Like the other anon said, they needed to be a lot more fleshed out. I mean, we have a lot of Changeling content, and you basically never see them interact with each other. We could have had a whole lot of politics and interactions between Kyasid/Maeghar and Changelings like we have with Fianna, but we got nothing.
If anything, old Malkavian's connections with the fae and Ravnos was more interesting than Kyasids as a whole.

>>96889748
Also of note is that Ventrue like Sebastian himself have Fortitude as a Clan Discipline. In his centuries of unlife he never learnt it, which paints the picture of a dude that never had to seriously exert himself because he could always Dominate his problems away to the point he ended up becoming overreliant on it. In tabletop terms he probably had a twinked-out build with Dominate as its cornerstone and he ended up neglecting every other tool in the Ventrue arsenal. Thus, when he had no more minions to order around and a vampire enemy who could shrug off his Dominate attempt, he was out of tricks and out of luck.

What does Glamour harvesting look like for your average CtD changeling? They can't all be hanging around art collectives, right? And the rules have it that it may take up to a year to determine how to best muse someone. Where do they get the time?

>>96890858
Jam Technology used to be a two dot Gift and now it's SEVEN

>>96891013
>Relying on Dominate
>When everyone and their childer has ways to resist or become immune to it
The Presence meta will last till Gehenna, if Caine be willing

>>96890956
Do you mean that metaphorically, so it’s the futile flailing of a creature too blind to know it’s already dead? Or literally as in the rules and setting are stupid

>>96891030
What's the last part of the second sentence?

>>96891013
>>96889748
he also just died while possessing another body so he SHOULD be in topor so either the sherrif just woke him up again 2 minutes ago or he is running on what little willpower he has left

hey all. I'm preparing to start to immerse people in the sandbox of Chicago by Night. All are very new to the game and lore. same as me. I heard a good idea is to run first Power Prey to make them slide easier into The Sacrifice. Ran so far for them Auld Sanguine and it was a good way to make them shake off the DnD way of playing and looking at the game as a more political thing. I would highly appreciate any tips and tricks from you on how to run Power Prey and Sacrifice and CbN in general. also any useful links to resources? many thank you

>>96891047
The one wrinkle is that he did manage to fight a direct attempt on his unlife and was victorious without his sheriff, though they were Sabbat shovelheads which muddles the waters.

>>96891030
I presume the answer is “both”

>>96891030
Gnosis doesn't exist anymore
Kinfolk don't exist anymore (They do actually but no they don't and no they really don't)
Tribes are all fake, they may as well not exist
Forget saving the world, we're defending our little patch of forest OH SHIT IT'S 8AM I GOTTA GO TO WORK
Being in Crinos consumes willpower, yep.
Being in the spirit world actively hurts you like with the OPTIONAL RULE for mages. And it's not optional
Good news though, Metis are gone! Yay! And the gifts are more balanced (Weaker)! And we made the Get of Fenris the bad guys, didn't you HATE the Get for their...*checks notes* some of them being Nazis that one time?

>>96891016
>Where do they get the time?
They probably don't have "real" jobs, so they have more time.

>>96891079
Changelings are the only splat likely to have real jobs, so no.

>>96890919
I like your idea, but wasn’t Helena moving slowly and subtly because she was trying to outwit Menele, who lived basically next door and was at least as powerful and cunning as she was? There’s not a lot of things active in the modern era that can seriously challenge a 4th gen 3k old methuselah, except another one or a very well prepared group of lower vampires/other splats and Kemi can afford to go crazy and disappear the second she’s losing or someone in her weight class shows up

>>96891093
>Completely forgetting the technocrats are employed by the technocracy
They even get full dental anon.

>>96891043
I was lazy and didn’t put a question mark at the end

>>96891093
Hunters might work a normal job. Yeah, they're probably gonna lose those but still

Lost changelings are humans taken by fae to be fae things, but what are dreaming changelings? What's their thing?

>>96891120
Otherkin, basically, Human beings with a Fae soul. Someone described it to us like the post-apocalypse of WoD and that's not a bad description. The very environment itself is hostile to you, and you're basically a magical being wearing a meat sack to protect yourself from the horrors of normality.

Trying to make a marauder as a boss for the finale of my technocracy scenario,something with forces,spirit and correspondance,how do marauders work ? I know that there's the whole quiet thing to count in when building the character(the boss i'm building is an extraordinay citizen astrophysician that thinks that the universe a melody hidden in it’s deepest parts that make the things go),i know about the fact that you use their avatar like their arete but can’t get the grasp of how it does work

>>96891104
Tell me again what it is you do, Hidden One.

>>96891120
>>96891145
That's only slightly off. They're a composite soul, equal parts human and fae. If at any time you lose one half, you stop being a changeling.

>>96890858
You know how 90% of Werewolf has always been really weird and retarded and fetishistic and wacky? Well, good news! They cut out that shitty 90% and didn't replace it with anything!

>>96891102
Depends on if you wanna scavenge v5 lore which is debatable itself, in relation to Helena. It's why I was putting forth the archon comparison, cause you're right she won't really be threatened. But that'd get boring/tiring and probably send the regional Ministry to ground. Doesn't mean that she can't have fun doing her usual infiltration schitck and when it comes to Set's holdings, she'd know better than most how to corral them. Cause, ultimately, I'd have her more focus on picking through the Ministry for specific things related to the scroll of life and, well, there's not really a greater egyptology faction than them. Maybe some of the more worldly Giovanni and/or specific wraiths.
The mask the player coterie interact with would be her metaphorical angler fish lure. Up to you and the players on whether she rouses enough suspicion to be investigated or gets annoyed enough to clack her teeth as a warning.

>>96891151
What does your supposed marauder believe? Something about a universal melody? Also try and relate the actual madness to the metaphysic trinity. Like is there something wrong with this arcane melody and the marauder knows they're hearing the right one.

>>96889263
Anyone?...

>>96891248
We don't play games here, so no one can chime in.

>>96888444
You may think you can demoralize me, but your attempt is but a pebble descending into the vast abyss that is me. Your action to desiccate hope and calcify despair has only consigned itself to oblivion. And that is how I shall win. Every action meant to stifle me. Every action made by my enemies to enrich or embolden themselves or to counter-act my efforts. Everything will serve my purposes. And it is an inescapable trap. Because the more they writhe and struggle, the tighter the web gets, and the stronger I become.

>>96891248
I like Shadow Pack. Extra fighters are always useful with how SoD combat goes

>>96891157
I terminate deviants

>>96889263
>>96891248
Most people don't remember the magical item merits, specially when dealing with werewolf.

>>96891220
First i wanted to do something similar to Sigma from Overwatch,he's a scientist studying black holes,supernovas and other cosmic bodies despite not being awakened he still got the scientific understanding behind these but the idea is that everytime he came back from a spacial station or such,he heard something that looked like music for him,in some calculations he made,he took in account sound that wasn’t normally possible to exist in space,since then he believes in something he calls the harmony theory,something based off the string theory but with the addition of the melody he hears,in fact the source of the melody is something in the deep umbra,i didn’t decided yet if it’s a Malfean,the Wyrm itself or another thing of immense power but the idea is that the source of the melody isn’t what he thinks

>>96887355
Wow! Can you tell me more about such an amazing product sir!

>>96891151
>>96891390
The way most marauders work is that they have a reality bubble aura. The nearby world shifts to fit their particular brand of insanity, someone might think they live in the Looney Tunes world and thus cartoon physics would apply around them. Another might be paranoid and think there's a secret conspiracy against him, the reality bubble would make it so that there actually are people hunting him. The bubble means that they're protected from paradox, the local reality is aligned with their paradigm. Any paradox backlash would hit a nearby mage outside the bubble instead. Basically this means that they don't care about paradox, but their magic is limited to their very specific delusions. For your idea it seems like he'd just be a regular Extraordinary Citizen who's getting manipulated by some evil force. If he was a Marauder, the melody wouldn't be real outside of his bubbl.

>>96891390
So like he heard the sun, or something sun-like, screaming? Anyway, again, I'd think on how it'd relate to the trinity. Sounds like you'd want an entropy marauder if you're associating it with the wyrm and/or oblivion

>>96888544
Aliens of legitimate kind
Dragons
Lovecraftian races
Yokai/ anything major east of Central Asia

Aaaaaannd

Maybe urban legends as their own splat maybe

>>96891544
Something more of correspondance or forces then,not entropy,the thing is that he thinks that the melody he hears could alter the state of matter in space,the climax of his awakening in my scenario would be him crushing a dyson sphere from distance and turning it into a black hole in front of the players while they clearly hear a melody they shouldn’t be hearing in space
>>96891539
In the beginning he's an extraordinary citizen inconsciously contacted by a deep umbra entity,he thinks the melody he hears is something that makes the difference between a sun,a black hole,a supernova or other celestial bodies that aren’t just planets. The players are his bodyguards and after a visit on a dyson sphere based construct of the technocracy,he witness his son’s death and it awakens him violently in the shuttle getting him back to earth with the players,didn’t wrote everything about it but it’s the main ideas

>>96891552
I mean yokai do kind of pop up as interpreted by all the WoD Asia supplements.

>>96891628
Entropy as in the triatic force not sphere. Still very fitting climax, sounds like it'll be fun

>>96891151
>(the boss i'm building is an extraordinay citizen astrophysician that thinks that the universe a melody hidden in it’s deepest parts that make the things go)
https://youtu.be/iR-K2rUP86M

>>96891552
Dragons are a kind of Bygone, if that count?

>>96891552
Anyone ever tried running a DanDaDan chronicle? Less serious and more focused around gags and misfits searching for supernatural phenomena not necessarily to hunt them down. I've thought it'd fit very well with a Network Zero / Null Mysteries duo. Dunno why but I find them far more interesting than say Taskforce: Valkyrie precisely because they aren't as equipped to defend themselves.
https://youtu.be/JOaXa_3FxZs

>>96891677
(And yes, I know it was actually the Dwemer who developed tonal architecture and Dagoth Ur was largely a scavenger utilizing the Heart Of Lorkhan for an inverted Amaranth)

>>96888544
Do cultists count?

(V20) If I have 5 dots in mentor and generation, and I want my sire to be outside of the normal city structure and more-so under the inner circle, what are some options of what she could be? Justicar? Archon?

>>96891774
Archon, Autarkis that's friendly with regional Camarilla. Someone high up in the blood trade that's on the move. Someone relatively high up in the high but might be more a regional kingmaker

Why is everyone and their cousin playing V5? Does nobody respect proper 2e/3e and even fucking V20? What's the deal?

>>96891669
Oh i get it now,then maybe his avatar can be the source of the melody and that’s how he channels his magick since i wanted him with a dynamic avatar,would link him with the wyld so it kinda fits with the whole black hole creation thing
Thanks,my players are used to mages not being able to do that much spectacular shit and vulgar effects being almost exclusive to spirits or nephandi so i hope to make them feel the fear of three agents stuck in space not understanding how they can breathe outside the wreck of their shuttle as the VIP they were supposed to bodyguard just turn an almost deep umbra construct into a black hole
>>96891677
Not gonna lie,i laughed
Didn’t thought of this parallel,now i got ideas for another campaign where one of my players helps a.npc without knowing they are trying to become a godly entity
>what a great and intoxicating innoncence

>>96891829
Because people start with the latest version and no one has any love for V20 and earlier mechanics, because they are even shittier than V5.

>>96888680
Only if it was a princess game

>>96891829
Even though it is mechanically a pile of steaming shit, V5 has polish and graphics, and visually is appealing. It's also integrated into all of the mainstream services for normies. Roll20 and other stuff tends to lean toward V5 rules. Add to this that all the budget has gone into marketing for V5 and this is what you get. It's more annoying when you try searching for lore or character build youtube channels. All of it is weighted toward V5.

Earlier editions need more influencer types who aren't cringe, and guides, in order to rescue people from the V5 black hole.

>>96890811
Her whole thing is being a super-duper liar who can flawlessly mimic almost anyone. Anihilation isn't really her bag and for a fourth gen, she isn't that good in a fight.

But that's the practical issue with running her, she could be in your chronicle from start to finish and the PCs reasonably would never have a chance to figure it out.

>>96891829
>why do people play with what's available and in their face
We just don't know.gif

>>96891689
Mean yeah true but if the fae can have their own spalt I thought maybe dragons could top
I even have ideas for the a dragon splats and have a doc for an outline for CofD dragons

>>96891829
The normie MUST play the latest slop available, also the art is nice despite some of the content. Lot of them default to LATEST > OLD like with DnD or other IPs. Took some significant corralling for my group to use V20 instead of V5

>>96891930
For me it's my Fae-Fera dragonshifters. Not even NPC jail, they'll never see the light of day.

>>96891700
Dandadan would very much work well in the WoD/CoD setting, if one could add aliens to it. The weirdness and strange happenings feels like it could fit into an chronicle, hell you could probably just make a game just set there as hunters/deivants/whatever else you can think of.

Honestly the only hard part would be how to handle aliens.
I have an idea of how to incorporate Aliens into World backtpstory wise but there still a lot of figure out.

>>96891700
Is that show any good?

>>96891963
Yes

Thaumaturgy should not be locked behind being a clan discipline.

Anyone tried to remake the setting of A Song of Ice and Fire using the WoD/CofD rules?

>>96891963

DanDaDan fucks super hard, it's one of the best anime airing atm.

>>96891700
Sounds like a cell that's growing into a compact. Or one getting picked up by a compact.
>>96891973
You'd think so but Assamites and Tremere are hypocrites and people that hate them also think such power should be strictly locked cause...fuck you.

>>96891960
I made a makeshift setting where both the demons from Demon: the Fallen and Demon: the Descent exist. So the fallen are the usual demons because the setting is so rich and cool, whereas the Descent demons are like aliens come from another plane to experiment and infect humans.
I also want to incorporate Dark Ages: Fae lore over Lost and Ascension over arcana mages but struggling with it.

>>96891990
We I means there is a spiritualist organization that the grandma is a part of.
And there are hopes that MIBs' are going to show up.
It's more a bunch of psychic/possesed freaks getting together to save the world

So either mages or sin-eaters

>>96891981
No, why would anyone do that?

>>96891981
Why would they?

>>96891164
>make borderline fetish-fuel gameline about being a cool anti-city anti-modernity hippy to contrast heavily with Vampire
>latest revision scraps all of that and just turns you into a hippy with anger management issues

>>96891973
Cry about it.

>>96892014
>>96892018
Its a cool setting, probably for dark ages. Vampire seems to suit the Lannisters and the Targaryen are totally werewolves.

>>96891076
>Kinfolk
W5 treats them like a "We got kinfolk at home" and it's just dudes that don't hate nature instead of anything significant. Also very funny that they made the Get insane neo-nazi larpers and the Red Talons are nearly identical except they accept h*mids now and only want to genocide 80% of humanity

>>96891858
Yeah Madness and Dynanism sounds fitting for him. That said, up until the climax, he sounds like an Internal marauder which might help play into some of the players hearing the melody during the climax

>>96891700
>>96891960
How would you handle the PC's? Low power mages? Changeling's? I think Mage has rules for ayylmaos too

>>96891996
My idea for aliens is that they are a byproduct of the scientific angle of creation the Elohim did in the begining. Science life happened on earth so it had to happen other places because universal laws

The other races lived decently since the focus of the big guy of existence was away from them but that also meant there weren't any stabilizers to help them as well. They had the Concensus Ability as well but it was even more of a hindrance to them. Tens of species self-destructed vecaus epf this.
A few of them however did a trick. A mass Planetary ritual that effectively cut the give alien species of from that power right then and forever after. With perhaps some expecting with things like some linear magics/ Psychic powers

They did the whole space thing an what not about getting near the human part of existence is a danger, the amount of "magic" it has is so great that it's a spatial sand pit that you can enter but is extremely hard to get out of. That's why there aren't aliens

>>96891963
The manga is Kino of the highest order and the anime is the manga but with great sound design and good animation
>>96891981
>extremely low power
>global politics everywhere as a foundational principle of the setting
Seems way too difficult

>>96892056
Sorcery mixed with appropriate mage sphere, Numina psychic powers, Geist haunts and deviant powers.

Throw in some spirit gifts and deals and that's all well an good enough

>>96892066
Unlike D&D I think that the focus on character drama of the WoD is perfect for such a setting. Only issue would be turning the big armies campaigns into dice rolls due to how different that setting is.
GoT is both personal stakes social rules and large scale warfare. I haven't seen a system that can manage both properly.

>>96892091
>semi-mixed human splat
That'd be quite cool

>>96891996
>Dark Ages: Fae
What would be a good way to translate the Dark Ages: Fae themes and systems into the CofD? I love how free their magic system is (kind of like Ascension spheres turned up to 11) while having the horror aspect of being an alien otherwordly being, a Fair Folk if you will.

>>96891963
Very good. Okarun may seem like the typical milquetoast blank slate protagonist at first glance but the kid has balls even when he doesnt have balls.

>>96891047
That has always been my theory on why he can't dominate you at that moment, he's weak from his possessed guy exploding

>>96892107
Hm, you make an great point there. I just think that the more character drama aspects of ASOIAF is somewhat incompatible with similar aspects in WoD because of the focus on grand political machinations that provide context for the character drama. I suppose if you limit the PCs to all be related to each other it's infinitely more manageable but otherwise you have to keep in mind a very dense and somewhat obtuse political web where things are happening and moving independently of the PCs. I would think that the headache is not worth it for the ST though if you're going to run more of a game that repurposes the setting to allow players to dick around in a single city/region as shit happens around them that's very feasible. You just run into the problem that George's worldbuilding is lacking compared to the character drama side of things in terms of cities, landscapes, and characters not related to the cast so you'll need to do the bulk of the heavy lifting in terms of layout and descriptions. God forbid your players want to leave and go somewhere actually interesting like the Shadow Lands too. Personally, I wouldn't do it but best of luck to you if you are

>>96892066
Can’t someone just use Dark Ages rules, though?

>>96891013
Was LaCroix not an officer in the French army?

>>96892046
Internal marauder ? As in the fact that his quiet is only perceived by him at the beginning ? Where the hell can i learn more about marauders btw ?

>>96892159
I think its doable if you run it like a black box. I saw the great Anders Sandberg propose such a system once where you get a tarot deck or a set of rules and you roll to see what event happens according to the dice and how well your political machination worked.
Its not perfect but frees your mind to only see the effects rather than having to think about everyone's machinations which would be untenable.
https://youtu.be/3KC_RfxYBHc
>>96892167
No because then you get a spell that can turn a boss or player into a chair permanently. Rules are broken.

>>96892169
In Napoleonic days. He left academy and bought a lieutenant commission.

>>96890132
What addons are you using? I'm also running my games in foundry

>>96892182
Yeah, though do what you feel is best. You're the ST. The marauder page on the wiki has that reference section to point to the books and then you can use the mega links in the OP of the thread to grab those book pdfs and find the sections. The Book of Madness, in the Revised edition in the Mage folder, has a whole section about marauders

>>96892167
I feel like Dark Ages rules aren't very compatible with the very overt politicking of the setting, but this is just my idea
>>96892184
This is a neat idea, though I'm not sure why particularly use ASOIF instead of plane medieval to make the setting easier on yourself. If you make it work that's all good though

>>96892036
Yeah, but one's a medieval fantasy novel series and the other is an urban horror tabletop game. The only real overlap would be the medieval courtly intrigue of Vampire: The Dark Ages. Otherwise, they don't mesh at all.

>>96892235
Well,i'll have to read the book of madness and search the wiki then,thanks for the advices,the climax is gonna be in quite some time,at least three to four sessions,rn my players will just live with the vip for some time and protect him from ennemies,i thought about some hunter who will kidnap him to ask a ransom to the Technocracy,the ransom being that they free their friend abducted three weeks prior,the twist is that one of the hunters is the ex wife of the NWO player that has been erased from his memory when he was taken by the Technocracy
This or werewolves not pleased by the expansion of the property of the dude,he got a mansion and a wine farm in southern France and expanded it furthermore in the woods nearby
I also had this project of making them discover a rokea group in the underwater canyon near the coast nearby,the Gouf of Capbreton
I got some stuff for them but i don’t know always how to send them to it and they shrug off a lot of threats

Do you think magical girls would get along with Lost changelings?

>>96892313
Why would magical girls get along with traumatised abuse victims?

>>96892313
Magical girls imo could get along with a lot of mages and changelings maybe even some hunters

>>96891300
Thats a gift not an item but thanks

>>96892036
>werewolves but without the ecoterrorism
Feels like you're taking the fun out of it
>>96892294
I think fantasyland with every major political faction being a different

>>96892313
Probably.

>>96892341
By "the Targaryens are totally werewolves," he just means "the Targaryens are totally retarded."

>>96892323
They may not understand the lings' but they would try to help them and their magic is very similar.

>>96892357
>last werewolf alive shacks up with her retarded nephew who's clearly PTSD ridden and emotionally unstable
Yeah, checks out

>>96892305
How high up in the union are the players? Cause, kinda forgive me, it sounds like they're on or near the bottom rung but maybe in a special position like a "prototype" task force for the area so they think they're more important than they are. Guarding the VIP is the big keystone for their job but their various bosses maybe give them specific tasks to look into.

>>96892234
I'm not currently using any addons, I'm using the MtAw base module because it technically supports most CofD gamelines (but it's still janky as fuck). Do you have any modules you're using that you'd recommend?

>>96892376
What makes magical girl powers similar to stages of grief therapy-talk magic?

>>96891076
>Good news though, Metis are gone! Yay! And the gifts are more balanced (Weaker)! And we made the Get of Fenris the bad guys, didn't you HATE the Get for their...*checks notes* some of them being Nazis that one time?

Also, to but in, Charnel Houses has way more words to dedicate to how Mages were involved with Nazis than werewolves.

For the Garou, they noted that the majority of them came out against Nazis, and that there was a schism in the Get that saw a minority of the tribe side with Nazis.

Mage got an entire paragraph about how roughly half the Technocracy supported the Nazis, along with a bunch of Verbena and Sons of Ether. In fact, the Verbena were supporters of theosphy and related movements that teed up tje Nazis in the first place.

So, when M5 drops, let's all keep that in mind.

>>96892393
Not really high,they aren’t at the bottom though,they have like 3 years of work as mobile task forces members for the Iteration X mage hunter cyborg and the NWO member and it’s the first field mission for the Syndicate affiliated HR manager,guarding the VIP is their main job because the technocracy in their sector is actually busy with a hunt for the nephandi in their ranks that the players demonstrated in their lasr campaign and an attack made by a deranged Son of Ether mage who enhance dachshungs to fight the technocracy like a saturday morning cartoon villain(his name is Dr Teckelstein,was a joke character at first),so the ressources of the technocracy are scarce at the moment,even without adressing the avatar storm and the threat null problem,so they send the party to guard an important extraordinary citizen

>>96892469
It's a shame that new writers decided that Gets are all nazi's because of modern right wing adoption of traditional nordic symbols, the nordic berserker archetype feels like one of the most apt for a werewolf

>>96891960
>if one could add aliens to it.
Aliens already exist in WoD anon. It's only the tradition mages that think all aliens are really spirits.

>>96891866
Princesses of Mirrors are definitely the type to start streaming thirst traps to get more powerful.

>>96892409
The whimsicalness of it all and its dependency on emotions. The darkest mahou shoujo are basically emotional leeches

>>96892469
I'd still expect Batini to be more radioactive.

Opinions?

>>96892871
Salubri bloodline

>>96892871
Hated for all the right reasons

>>96892871
Daimonion is such a fantastic idea for a clan discipline, but it feels half-baked and too hard to use regularly.
Also total Baali death, they have what's coming to them.

>>96892871
Ethical diablerie, but they're poison.

>>96892871
Explain the lore to me first. I have 1 dot in intelligence.

>>96892960
The Discipline is kind of an incoherent mess of 'demon worshiper' tropes.
Much like the Baali themselves, since they're basically just meant to slot into whatever flavor of demon you wanna use.
Which brings me to:
>>96892871
I don't like how vague, undefined and contradictory a lot of their lore feels. I get it's so you can slot in whatever kind of demon you like for them to worship, but I feel it keeps Baali too inconsistent for me to enjoy as bad guys.
I don't like slot-in evil, is what I'm saying.
Though typing this now makes me want to write up Baali subfactions specifically relating to Fomori, Fallen, Spectres, etc. with their own structures, discipline spreads and habits.
Could be fun.

>>96892986
Salubri (the vampire) did a thing and now the rest of us have to suffer for it.
Their speciality is serving some really evil demons.
Sabbat 2.0 if you will.

>>96892986
You know the 80's perception of tabletop players as edgy satan worshipers? They're that, and also vampires

>>96892935
So are they evil, are they moralfags? I really don't get the salubri. They seem cool I like the three eyes but they perplex me

>>96893025
The Salubri themselves are very much the good guy vampires. On the surface, at least.
If you go with Saulot being a manipulative bastard, they're effectively just a bloodline of his patsies he created to serve him, then discarded when they fulfilled their purpose (mopping up the Baali) in favor of clan he could control even more directly (Tremere)

>>96893000
>>96892935
This is propaganda. Saulot was framed. Apologize for spreading lies and deceit!

>>96893025
They perplex Paradox and white wolf too. Don't worry. Paraphrased horribly; yes they're evil cause, well they're vampires, Saulot hid and lied about all the weird wacky inhuman shit he got up to while sucking off the Cathayans cause he was being sanctimonious about drinking blood. He could find or make a better path cause drinking blood was awful. He said these things like a loser. He didn't appreciate being called a loser either, despite losing, so he went on to lose some more when the Tremere got involved.

>>96893025
The Salubri did nothing wrong, but they are a convenient scape-goat to point the finger at and blame to cover up the real story. History is written by the victors, after all.
>>96893056
Convenient lies.

>>96893056
>>96893087
So Saulot was evil and many of his childer aren't?

>>96893062
Ok then genius, who DID sire the Baali? What's your plan? They must have been sired by ONE of the antediluvians, and their only other clan disciplines match with the fucking Followers of Set, and he was in Egypt!

>>96893106
Salubri knew that Tremere and his bloodline was doomed so he willingly allowed himself to be diablerized so that his will could propagate throughout the Tremere bloodline thus holding back the Eldest (the greatest evil ever known). Who did the Tremere steal their blood from and become vampires from? Tainted Tzimisce, filled with the vitae of the eldest, laying in dormant wait. Salubri was enlightened and reached golconda and knew that if nothing happened the world would be doomed. So Salubri sacrificed himself to withhold the curse and give Tremere a fighting chance. The tragedy is that the whole world blame the Salubri when they are the only hope any of us have at the coming of gehenna.

Saulot was not evil, he was the most selfless and only true saint amongst the children of Caine.

>>96893108
Think, friend. Who pointed the finger?

>>96893106
>Saulot was evil
Yes, survey says as much.
>many of his childer aren't
Ehhh, that's more shaky. It's more like he threw his clan and bloodline(the Baali) under the metaphorical and metaphysical bus instead of swinging that antediluvian dick. Like some kind of coward that can't accept the situation he put himself in. Naturally the salubri don't really know any of this because they were mostly, MOSTLY, decent people. Not good. Decent.

>>96892986
Saulot has three eyes.

There are three clans he controls

The Salubri who are outcast Healers who diablerize their own that are vilified by the Tremere

The Tremere who usurped kindred-hood, who usurped Clan status with Saulot's diablerie, who usurped Kindred Society by founding the Camarilla

The Baali, who worship demons, & destroy everything they touch

>>96893098
Convenient for whom? Your own conscience? The Salubri are already dead or dying and your founder's new children had a suspiciously easy time finding and exterminating them, didn't they?
Come, childe of Saulot, admit you were duped, join the brethren that were discarded before you, that we may destroy our father and his new children once and for all!
>>96893106
Jokes and RP aside, Saulot being evil was never completely set in stone, precisely because WW wanted to keep the possibility open of him being the good guy antediluvian. In their case, his children are by and large saintly, with few exceptions.

So how is that traitor Ur-shulgi connected to the Baali? Outside of demon magic, supposedly.

>>96893148
Such a convincing argument. He has three eyes, therefore he must control three clans. See! Three and three make six six six! Hogwash and poppycock, I say! Yet, this, too, is Saulot's curse to bear. He knew he would be scorned for saving the world yet this is the path he chose.

>>96893165
Yes, they're a fringe clan with few remaining. Saulot knew his legacy would be destroyed but still sacrificed it all. What you should be asking is why were the Tremere so hostile to the Salubri in the first place, even prior to diablerizing Saulot? Because someone put it in their heads to go after Saulot. Who can control and whisper through the vitae to accomplish their will in such a magnanimous manner? Ask yourself, who whispers thick in the blood of the Tzimisce and bends them to their will as they bend their own flesh into HIS filthy ways? Are you starting to understand now? That the Tremere blood hunt against the Salubri is a game of chess in which they were all pawns, save Saulot himself and the unspeakable evil threatening to consume this very world? But do not worry. Saulot didn't do this for praise. He is, after all, a saint, even as he is falsely blamed for siring the Baali blight.

So...are the salubri basically vampires but not evil?

>>96893288
No, no, they're evil because they're vampires.

>>96893197
When Assam was sheriffing in the Second City and exterminating First Baalis, and Saulot wanted to add his clan to the police force as sorcery specialists but Assam thought that was suspicious, Saulot might have done it anyway and installed his own officer into the leadership when Assam looked away.

>>96893288
They are the saviors of the whole world and Saulot is a hero and a saint, or they are illuminati devils controlling three entire clans and has so much power that they make the Jyhad look like childsplay. Take your pick.

>>96893288
More or less, which is why I never liked them. I'm not adverse to "good" vampires, but I think it should be more the product of personal virtue and will overcoming the immense incentives for being evil given to someone via the curse of caine than some sort of inherent lineage bias towards being "vampires but good".

Not tying one of the great maelstroms to the bronze age collapse feels like a missed opportunity

>>96893303
Humanity should be able to fuck over itself without supernatural interference.

>>96893293
Based hunter

>>96893312
? Maelstroms tend to always be Wraiths getting fucked over by humanity or nature fucking over humanity which fucks over wraiths.

>>96893312
I think you're confused here. Maelstroms in wraiths are caused by great calamities, not the other way around.

>>96893329
>>96893334
That one's on me

>>96893302
>>96893288
Don't Salubri go out of their way to embrace people that are well-intentioned or good aligned? So it's more of a case that Salubri are good-aligned before they become Salubri rather than being embraced by one leads to being good aligned.

>>96893373
>Don't Salubri go out of their way to embrace people that are well-intentioned or good aligned?
Sounds like a dick move if I'm honest. Imagine finding someone good and giving them an ancient curse.

>>96893373
>Don't Salubri go out of their way to embrace people that are well-intentioned or good aligned
I'd love to know who thought a game where you play as a VAMPIRE needed this shit.

>>96893317
Ever made a chronicle where the Hunter ended up becoming a supernatural at the end of the chronicle?

>>96893288
The Children Of Osiris were vampires but not evil. The Salubri are slightly more complex and significantly more 'tarded.

And how about the baali? Different editions have the sabbat as either rife with them and demon worshipers in general, or actively hunting those that are within their ranks. If the salubri are generally trying to achieve golconda what's their goal?

>>96893288
No. They're just trying to get as little bad karma as possible
>>96893204
Saulot wants to transform the Kindred condition. So he created/influenced three clans with three different goals. They don't work together, & there's no three eyed illuminati. Saulot created a clan of healers & empaths to see if virtue & martyrdom will find an answer. He also secretly sired the most heinous devil worshipping evil motherfuckers to see if there's an answer in that direction. Lastly, he allowed himself to be diablerized by Tremere so that he could watch & gather information as well as see if there was an answer through sorcery.

Saulot, is like Cappadocia & the Eldest. He wants to go beyond vampirism. Cappa through devouring Jesus, the Eldest by evolving his physical form.

And what are 'The Children'?

>>96893470
>different editions have different things
That depends on your storyteller and the era your playing in. Most consistent thing you can nail down is that demons amongst vamps=Baali.

>>96893470
Plunge the world into a demon infested hellscape.
Or keep said demons asleep (while taking their power)
Or kill your neighbourhood pets for minor rituals to the Wyrm
Inconsistent as fuck, is what I'm saying.

>>96893373
Yes they target good people, but that isn't the whole of it. Even the Book of Nod sucks their dicks, talking about how the third eye wasn't a curse, it was to mark them as the only gud bois of the third gen.

And what is it 'based' on?

>>96886924 (OP)
My tremere made a deal with an Earthbound in order to keep an eye on it, but then a wraith blew it up. I wasn't familiar enough on the rules if that was legit or not

>>96893490
When a mommy & a daddy love each other very much...

>>96893512
Sounds legit if it was a wraith. Was this wraith particularly mean spirited?

>>96893512
Blew up an Earthbound? Not too familiar with Wraith rules, or how exactly they'd accomplish that, but I imagine it'd have to be pretty powerful to do that in the skinlands (even more so if the Earthbound in question had access to Lore of the Spirit)

>>96893303
Bronze Age collapse wasn't a time of massive death, just a shitty time to be alive since all the trade routes collapsed.

>>96893404
>>96893388
Well, there's a lot of that going around. WoD hardly makes plot critical characters reasonable
>>96893496
That seems a bit weird. Did Saulot not participate in the whole voring the 2nd gen bit also? Osiris is also a goodish lad last I remember reading

>>96893522
No clue, he was the henchman for a Tzimice played by the STs brother

>>96893533
The earthbound was in a ring, which I was wearing, the wraith was in the shadowlands & was hitting it with some powerful attack. I didn't really mind too much since the only reason I took it was because I didn't trust anyone else to not use it, & I didn't know how to destroy it without it fucking me over.

>>96893436
Is that fucking Dante?

>>96893567
Yes

>>96893567
Don't be ridiculous, Dante holds a sword, that's a shotgun

>>96893567
>not knowing Dente
Come on anon

>>96893578
Just needs to have the tip sawed off

>>96893470
The thing about the sabbat is that nothing is canon. There are basically a hundred different takes on what the sabbat is, how they operate and what their motivations are, and that's before you get to it being run by individuals with their own agenda.
The answer to any question about the sabbat is "However you ST runs them".
>>96893373
Yes the salubri as a clan are a clan of good vampires who by and large haven't done anything wrong (Except for the edgy sabbat warrior clan). They are eternal victims and that is their role in the narrative. You bring in a salubri in your chronicle if you want a sympathetic villain or a guy who gets kicked around but is still a vampire.

>>96893404
Are you retarded anon? Because a group of largely sympathetic and well intentioned people who are hunted for sport fits very well in the world of darkness.

>>96893490
They're the Neverborn of Oblivion in incomplete physical form, which are the same ones as Exalted's Neverborn and still left over from the Primordialmachia.

>>96893619
>Primordialmachia
A what?

>>96893691
An Exalted thing

>>96892986
>>96893025
>>96893108
>>96893119
I like Old Country's take on Saulot as a being who had to experience all good and all evil with the 3 Salubri bloodlines representing him as a healer, conqueror, and watcher, and so had to work as a founder of the Salubri, the Baali, and Tremere pilot. I personally like to define the natures and unlifes of the Antes as a microcosm of what their clans should be like.
https://youtu.be/P9dy9yx3iVY

>>96893612
We already have that with Changeling and Mage, but we're not talking about those games. We're talking about Vampire the Masquerade, a game where you play as a dangerous predator who has to commit multiple crimes every day just to survive. The idea that a vampire can be a goody two-shoes humanitarian is fucking stupid.

>>96893793
The strive to be a good person while being a vampire is fucking central to wod man.

>>96893798
Individual PCs struggling to stay moral despite being literal monsters is one thing. It's another to make an entire race of monsters and then say that they're innately good boys who dindu nuffin.

does anyone have an editble pdf character sheet for mage 20th edition with either wholly editble text (without list selection) or has the expanded options for archetypes, secondary skills, ect from mage20 "book of secrets"? thanks either way for reading

>>96893746
Every time they pull the "three clans in an overcoat" trick, it always comes off to me as an overly complicated cope that's trying to redeem a fundamentally flawed concept.

>>96893839
nvm im stupid. founded after a bit more searching please ignore me

Brazil loves VtM, right? They ever make something like "Rio by Night"? I just like supernatural tour guides and wish there were more of them, even if most are shit.

>>96893832
There's like ten salubri in the entire world anon.
You're being retarded.

>>96893848
Especially the tremendous connection is just so tenuous.
Oh no he had to do the most good and then the most evil and then... uhhh... wizards?
It's very obvious post facto writing and can only exist through retcon.

>>96893868
They can barely make something decent for the US, you think they'd do foreign countries right?

>>96893885
Tremere*

>>96893746
>that picture
I keked

>>96893868
I think the OP might have a fanmade one

>>96893746
Sounds overcomplicated. I like the version that each salubri bloodline was salaut trying to make a powerful clan of righteous warriors, failing spectacularly, giving up in frustration, and trying again with a new bloodline/clan.
The tremere are his latest fuck-up, because he wasn't expecting to have to wrestle a tzimisce methusela for tremere's body and thus failed to take over the usurpers from within.

>>96893887
I meant fanmade, I'd like to believe there are people out there with enough love and creativity to pull it off for the places they live.
>>96893915
Thanks.

>>96893868
There's Rage across the Amazon, but I recall people saying it sucked.

honestly it should be rio and not mexico city for the sabbat capital of degeneracy. WoD there is so fucking much you can do with Rio

>>96893746
>>96893848
>>96893885
Luckily this isn't true. "the most evil, the most good, and MAGIC!" is indeed a cope and bad post hoc nonsense.
>>96893920
Just accept that he's a saint and a heckin' good boy doing a long term play to save the world. There's nothing wrong with having 1 good guy in the story as a plot device who can help stop gehenna. Hell, keep that he was originally evil if you want, just that golconda changed him and he repented and wants to do the right thing now. I don't see why people want to overcomplicate things. Instead of just giving him good guy status you want him to mastermind 3 clans at once and be playing 7D chess, or he's a failure who keeps fucking up random experiments. It's all so tiresome.

>>96893967
Considering Rio's the vamp larp capital of the world, it kind of is? They even got their specialized masquerade in the Carnivale. One of the few, if not only example, of Sabbat and Camarilla ruling side by side. Surprisingly the ventrue aren't the rulers, so maybe that says something about it.

>>96893969
I don't know about others but the amount of dick sucking he gets for being a heckin' good boy, in universe, annoys me more than anything else.

>>96893969
Tremere being manipulated into drinking salout By salout and salout being one of the being fighting for control of tremere's body are some of the few things that were never contradicted(transilvania chronicles and house of tremere).
Salout is also the most likely origin of the Baali by far(clanbook baali, book of nod).
He literally can't be the 100% heckin good boy you want him to be, that ship sailed a long-ass time ago.

>An unspoken truce was established between the Lasombra and the Toreador and Rio was transformed into a free city, designed to be outside the Jyhad.
>Modern Rio has been referred to have an archbishop as well as a prince, as well as council consisting of both Lasombra and Toreador

man bullshit why is there no rio at night book

>>96893959
Isn't that because the Amazon is for some reason mostly Skin Stealers and BSD or something

>>96893848
>>96893885
The Tremere are his Watchers. The Tremere have their fingers in every pie, & they are using one tool no other has with Traumaturgy. Saulot wants to find the next stage of being a vampire, or a cure to vampirism, whatever. Thats what the three clans are for. Salubri seeking saintlike Golconda, the Baali through demonic exaltation, & the Tremere because they were mages who became vampires & did a lot of experimentation into Kindred nature. If anyone is gonna find some weird sorcerous solution its the Tremere.

>>96893984
>>96894014
To me this just reads as some guy declaring his two favorite clans would totally kiss and make out in his favorite city and the Jyhad totally will stop happening and this could last for any longer than a decade.

In other words, even if such a situation came to pass, it would be an absolute powder keg built on a house of cards, presumably one that will explode over the course of a game. But I do not get the impression that the author thought of it as such.

>>96894031
Saulot best get ready to be fucking apocalyptic for what a shitty sewer rat did to Louis Pasteur then. Like full on Tremere-sponsored Nictuku hunts type of reaction

>>96894031
I've heard the full sales pitch. It still reads to me as post-hoc cope to justify an initial bad idea, because oWoD is allergic to hard retcons.

>>96893996
Half the writing about him are hints about how he's evil and the good thing is a facade.
I feel like you're just an edge lord.

>>96894044
Independent cities exist. Sabbat and Cams can't control everything.

>>96894092
It's not an independent city. It's a city with both an archbishop and a prince that have tea on the weekends.

>>96894044
I mean it kinda was cause, again, it has a major larp presence. Despite Swede envy aside, Brazil larp defaults to VTM.

>>96894044
Dubs of truth. Remember the mantra. The only canon at your table is your table's canon. Kick all that you dislike to the curb.

>>96894108
you gotta have somewhere that both sides can sit and talk adults or something clearly stronger is at work in the shadow like some strong as fug earthbound daemon. or nazi mages brainwashing vampires cuz idk salty as fuck about the tremere/technocratic union

>>96893908
Progenitors are getting savvy with their schemes.
>>96893969
>>96893848
>>96893920
I too enjoy Saulot as the one being to achieve Golconda/Salvation but IMO 3 clans in an overcoat works with them because it's conspiratorial and contradictory and makes Saulot into an interesting figure, things I want in my VtN games.

Where I feel it DOESN'T work is with the Assamites because.... Why do they need that? They were fine as assassin diablerists with delusions of grandeur and Haqim hasn't done shit. It would've been cool to make them into the Judge Dredd clan to explore them as vampire law keepers and the trappings of such a role but now they're just an interesting hodgepodge that gets divided because.. well they had to do something.

>>96894118
There should be a mark to designate if lore was created by a LARPer or not. Would be so valuable to let people know what to avoid.

>>96894160
>you gotta have somewhere that both sides can sit and talk adults
I'm not sure that applies in the case of the Sabbat and the Camarilla. The Sabbat doesn't do negotiation, and when it does, it's a ploy to get the Camarilla to expose their throats. They sat down to parlay in NYC. The Sabbat beheaded the then Prince. Vampire politics are far more cutthroat than mortal politics. Having embassies is already out of the question, agreeing to amicably share a major city is entirely unfeasible in the long term, even if both side's leadership were somehow amenable to the concept.

>or something clearly stronger is at work in the shadow like some strong as fug earthbound daemon. or nazi mages brainwashing vampires cuz idk salty as fuck about the tremere/technocratic union
I dismiss out of hand anything that requires some cross-splat super character to function.

Shit's dumb, essentially.

>>96894211
>Sabbat can't have depth
>Sabbat can't be multi-faceted
Oh so that's your issue

The salubri were there as a force of relative good, but to truly know good you must also know evil, so the baali are created, then the tremere are indirectly created so he can stop the absolute evil of the eldest. So like he was good the whole time but in a golconda kind of way where just because you don't have a beast doesn't mean you're "good".
Or maybe the baali are made from the beast he excised, and a guy like saulot just had a really nasty one

>>96894229
That's a ludicrous strawman. There's a difference between having multiple facets, and agreeing to amicably share a city with the people whom you openly declare to be the witless puppets of the Antediluvians and people whom you violate almost every tradition of (which is their entire ruling mandate).

The Sabbat is tremendously deep and multi-faceted. What they are not is the Camarilla for Edgelords. The simplest reason a city-sharing situation is long-term untenable is that the Sabbat can't actually control its low-level guys well enough to enforce its end of the bargain, whatever bargain was struck.

I played in a game where a nearby city had an unofficial truce between both the Camarilla and Sabbat parts of the town. Within less than a decade, both the Camarilla and Sabbat had outside parties actively destroying the truce.

>>96894205
Things can be conspiratorial and contradictory in a good or a bad way. Clans with castes bug me on a foundational level. We already have clans. We already have bloodlines. Here's this weird, poorly explained third thing that invariably makes an already narrow in scope clan to be even more of a monotasker.

>>96894205
I liked the assmites as an ethic clan of assassins who lie about their origins & their purpose & everything else because they want to be seen as important. Basic Saudi prince posturing

>>96894297
>torrie goes on a suspicious number of vacations to alamut

>>96894278
Thank you for putting it into words. Once I read the settites had castes I think the concept went a bit too far

>>96894278
I think castes only happened because they realized certain clans needed HEAVY retcons, but editors wouldn't let them get away with cutting and snipping whole cloth. The sad part is, the retcons they introduced usually also sucked as well.

>>96894583
what kind of clans and what kind of retcons?

>>96894278
>>96894583
Tremere pyramid and Assamite's weird system were fine enough I think

>>96894728
? The Tremere Pyramid isn't a three clans in an overcoat situation, and the Assamites are the poster children of what we're talking about.

>>96894728
>>96894733
Tremere Pyramid was just a way for STs to wrangle in Tremere players cause if left to their own devices Tremere can get too powerful

>>96894076
I think the closest they ever got to a hard retcon was killing off "House goriatrix" totally and utterly. But v5 brought them back.

What would be some good rules reference for creating living weapons such like pic related?

>>96894796
Lol theyve been hitting the tremere with the nerfbat since the game began. At this point everyone else also does magic but better and cooler than them too.

Which is "stronger" or more "broken" spheres or pillars/foundation?

>>96894814
Dread Powers and Thaumatechnology, both from Hunter: The Vigil.

>>96894330
>>96894583
Yes, I think it's quite telling that the only clans that got the caste treatment were weirdo independents to start with. They never felt the need to make Toreador Castes, Ventrue castes, etc. Because those clans had flexible enough conceits to allow for a multitude of character concepts, and any modifications of substance would be large enough to merit a full-on Bloodline.

>>96894815
There shouldn't be a magic oriented clan at all. They're vampires, all of them are magic.

>>96894840
They kinda do it with the Giovanni families too. But i suppose those are weirdo independents

>>96894815
Nah, you can give some stuff to the other "mystic" clans but we are told Tremere pretty much have access to everyone's libraries on that too. It is a huge bitch move to give others blood sorcery when it's Tremere's gimmick though. I'm kinda mad they didn't update some of the older rituals. There's one in 1st Edition where you get to turn into a werewolf & the rules say, just make a whole garou character sheet. You can't beat a werewolf body casting blood sorceries

>>96894814
I don't remember this episode of hellsing

>>96894856
Too late. There's like five wizard clans. There's the Tremere, the Viziers of the Assamites, the Giovanni (And all the various necromancy clans), and the Tzimisce (With koldounic sorcery)

>>96894856
Fuck you

>>96894899
>Viziers of the Assamites
You mean Sorcerers, the Viziers are the femboys nobody cares about.

>>96894899
V5 also makes Lasombra and thin bloods wizards.

>>96894899
Yes, and they should all get retconned. Reflavor them or erase them, doesn't matter. Why are they considered vampire wizards when the Ventrue walking around dominating people into being slaves isn't considered a wizard? Gangrel shapeshifting isn't magic? Is a Trujah fucking around with time itself not a magical ability? In any other setting all of them would be considered wizards or mages or whatever you want to call it.

>>96894899
so is the Viziers part of the whole 3 clans in a trenchcoat the assamites have going on?

>>96894925
My bad.

>>96894925
>femboys
No. No, I care about them deeply now.

>>96894932
He meant to say assamite sorcerers.

There's assamite warriors, assamite viziers (face), and assamite sorcerers.

Which changes the Assamite clan concept from being Vampire (diablerie obsessed brown murderer) to Vampire (brown). The solution is worse than the problem.

>>96894899
Plus Ass mite sorcery, setite sorcery, abysmal bullshit, & they added anarch stuff too but who knows who all has access to that

>>96894932
There's the viziers who are supposed to be the smart ones who get Auspex instead of Obfuscate.
There's the warriors.
Amd then there's the sorcerers who get blood sorcery and are also supposed to be the smart ones.

>>96894932
Yes. Now there are Muslim assassins, Muslim venture wannabes, & Muslim mystics

>>96894953
Just grab a few, they are free.

>>96894957
What's funny is they tried to fix this by saying oh theres also all the other clans in the middle east they're part of thus sect that we are never going to mention or care about ever again.

>>96894821
... Fair enough.

>>96894982
Maybe I am missing something but what's the point of the Assimites?

>>96894982
Which is a shame, I liked Veil of the Night (or whatever it's called). That and Kindred of the Ebony Kingdoms make the world of vampire feel a lot bigger, plus the regional variations on the clans are cool.

>>96895029
It would feel weird if there were no muslim vampires when they probably originated in the middle east.

>>96894957
Assamites do diablerie? I thought that stuff was super illegal
>>96894973
Interesting. I kind of liked their weird murder magic in v20 but I suppose they don't have that in V5

as a second hand tourist, something i was always curious about since playing vtm bloodlines. is there any reason there was a werewolf in griffith park? obviously more a /vg/ question but i figure yall would have a better idea.

>>96895042
>>96895029
Yeah but that's where bloodlines should have picked up the slack, giving people regional variants to cover that type of thing

>>96894982
I hate the Ashirra so much it's unreal. It makes the entire middle east a copy-paste of NPC "I am a vampire muslim and don't think too hard about what that would look like". It's a region that is famous for having a complex and incredibly long history, many ethnic groups that are always engaged in conflict unless there's a major empire to keep everyone in line, not to mention it being the probable origin point of vampirism. But it's entirely dominated by one, homogenous sect defined exclusively by a religion less than 2000 years old, that never does anything ever despite said religion's implicitly expansionist tendencies?

Anytime I want to do something Vampire in the middle east I have to all but start from scratch.

>>96895029
Originally, they were an entirely optional (as were the rest of the independents) Clan of vampires that hated other vampires. At best you could hire them to kill your enemy instead of you. Because they, like the rest of the independent clans were foundationally an ethnic group + a D&D class, when they tried to "fix" them, they focused on "middle eastern" instead of the vampire-hating assassin part.

>>96895042
It feels weirder to me that there are evidently no pre-islam vampires left in the whole damn region. Europe still has Methuselah that think Christianity was an annoying mistake, and a major theme of Vampire is there always being a bigger fish pulling the smaller fish's strings.

At the end of the day they often struggled to get the details right in their own backyard of America, but with everything east of the Carpathians it feels like they didn't even try.

>>96895107
I assumed the werewolves were there for a similar reason you were searching for the sarcophagus but it's somewhat a bit out of character for both of them to jump you guys in Crinos I would imagine unless Nines was antagonizing them previously

>>96895122
You know, I do wonder what in-universe vampires think about the entire rise of Christianity seeing as they had firsthand experience. I suppose I wouldn't be able to blame WW for not providing definitive answers about that though given the nature of the topic

>>96895107
The Griffith Park werewolves are a continuation of VtM's oldest tradition: Quantum Werewolves.

Whenever there is an area outside of normal city limits that you do not want your players to go, say it's Werewolf Country. If they go there anyway, throw half dozen overpowered statblocks at them until they either run away or die. It's a railroading tactic, essentially. Older Storyteller's Guides explicitly encourage this tactic, because I guess the original writers were really committed to the bit of urban vampires and didn't want to ever put out a guide for playing vampire chronicles in more rural areas.

>>96895122
Yeah that's a fair point, there should be some Zoroastrians and the like scattered around there. Though Caine being a thing makes it harder to reconcile any non-Abrahamic religions, but there's ways to work around it.

>>96895122
Haqims childer are pre Islamic they just mostly converted. Ur-shulgi is also explicitly not a Muslim and explicitly wanted to rid the clan of islam and build a new religion around himself as a cult leader and representative of Haqim. Which also makes them the only clan to have a positive relationship with their antediluvian.
Anyway they never did anything with that after introducing it in the clan book.

>>96895107
This: >>96895128
As a good Brujah, Nines was shitting the bed and making the dogs angry.

>>96895154
that's a good bit, if true

>>96895160
>Yeah that's a fair point, there should be some Zoroastrians and the like scattered around there.
Based opinion.
Incidentally, there are still Zoroastrians in Iran and they have a very nice place of worship.

>>96895172
Based Nines making dogfuckers seethe and then winning 1v1 against a furry murder machine
>>96895154
I suppose it made sense at the time, a vampire would probably have some difficulties traveling long distance overnight without suspicion

>>96895128
>>96895172
Are you guys forgetting about the forest being set on fire by totally-not-LaCroix-setting-you-up?

>>96895181
Very few and they are explicitly forbidden from increasing their numbers.
Tge most active zoroastrian communities are in India.

>>96895181
>that one Methuselah who's still butthurt about Thermopylae and personally helped sack Sparta

>>96895190
>werewolves caring about an inner city park getting set on fire when they could be killing a single mother of 5 or destroying a shoe factory
How would LaCroix know that setting the place on fire would instantly summon wolves before the local fire department got involved? I'm also fairly certain California trees are meant to burn to spread their seeds so I'm pretty sure it was just to include the wolves cause they're cool and as a teaser for their next game before they croaked

>>96895216
>>96895216
>>96895216

>>96895191
The Parsis are too based to be lumped together with other Zoroastrians.
But yeah, Iran sucks.

>>96895203
I always thought it would be fun to have a vampire who used to be connected to a group that doesn't exist any more.
Like a ventrue who saw himself as the keeper of the cagots and only drank from them being wistful about the taste and bitter about them not really existing any more.

>>96895212
>How would LaCroix know that setting the place on fire would instantly summon wolves before the local fire department got involved?
Because that park was a known Woof hotspot? That's the entire reason Nines was hiding there, nobody in their right mind would go look for him in that place.

>>96895235
I mean, the Parsis are almost extinct. Wait a couple generations and they'll be gone.

>>96895152
See that's what's more frustrating. With Christianity, they actually tried. Presumably on account of being more familiar with Christianity. But, as some examples.
>Titus Venturus Camilus, aka Camilla, the premiere Ventrue of Ancient Rome FUCKING HATED Christianity. He thought it was an existential threat to his wonderful, perfect Rome and oppressing them was fun. He torpor, woke up and Western Rome was gone, the eastern territories were all weird and Greek, and everyone was Christian. From his perspective he was proven right and continued to be fucking livid about it until he entered torpor again.
>The Antediluvian Cappadocius was on the other side of this. He became convinced Christ really was the son of God and became obsessed with him in a half-coherent bid to unfuck reality itself.
>The Road of Heaven is but one path of many in VTDA, which is set during the medieval period, a period absolutely chock-full of Christianity and the idea of purely secular government was unheard of. Despite every neonate being raised in a Christian household, there were other philosophies, and not just on atavistic elders. Because not everyone copes with unlife, or even life, the same way.

It isn't perfect, but I wish they'd at least attempted to give the middle east that much effort.

>>96895160
Exactly. Not just Zoroastrians either, but outright dead religions kept alive by Methuselah who refuse to bend to the times, even if it causes the younger vampires to chafe under their rule. Nor should we pretend that everyone raised in islamic nations are that pious, or their faith would survive the embrace, or (and this is the big one) that Islam as practiced has remained the same for its 1400 year history.

Besides which, a religion need not be true for vampires or mortals to practice it. And that's ignoring the can of worms that is: even if we accept that Noddism = Abrahamic Religions are closest to the truth... which one is closest?

>>96895237
But you would think wolves would be able to identify him by the smell unless he's super high humanity. Seems unlikely imo

>>96895168
I am well aware the Assamites long predate Islam and that Ur-Shulgi's awakening existed to actually do something with that inherent contradiction. I am not even against the Assamites being largely converts that somehow managed to cope their way into syncretizing a mortal religion with their antediluvian worship. My bitching about the state of the middle east lore in VTM lies largely at the feet of the Ashirra and how much the Assamites were being used as a square peg to fill every hole in the middle east so they didn't have to develop it further or think about what they were doing.

>>96895220
damn you, I don't want to be cross-threading these discussions. Cross-threading is cringe.