Thread 96898078

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. I hate Foundry because it's over-complicated, clunky, and because useless things like LOS and dynamic lighting are baked into the product. But, everyone seems to love it. What am I missing? Am I truly the only GM who despises line-of-sight and sound effects and all that video game shit? I don't want to carefully curate an experience, I want to run a game.

Well don't use it then. Plenty of other alternatives.
Personally I like it because I have to option to make use of these things without switching engines.

>>96898078 (OP)
LoS rules are pretty central to most RPGs, so it's only natural that they are enabled and supported by default. But you can just... turn them off? Give the players GM vision of a scene, done. Don't need dynamic lighting? Then don't place lights. Don't need physical walls? Then don't place them. It's that simple.

>>96898165
this
you need to go out of your way to make use of all these features anyway, if you just load a map image then you wont have any of that stuff, its not like anything breaks if you dont add it.
op is complaining over nothing

>>96898176
>if you just load a map image
but then your players can see the whole map immediately, which also doesn't make sense. Foundry includes no fog of war tools by default.
These aren't the only problems; the whole program is studded with instances of "you don't have to use that" and "there's a module for that". It's clearly built up towards a certain style of play.

are people really running their games this way? Is dragging your icon around to explore a map like an RTS really the tabletop zeitgeist?

>>96898214
>Foundry includes no fog of war tools by default.
It literally does. Dumbass.

>>96898214
>complain that there are fog of war and line of sight tools
>then complain that there aren't such features
god you're fucking retarded, do you want to use those features or not? if yes, they are there and easy to use. if no, then they are easy to ignore. you don't need a single module for anything other than system-specific qol.

So, OP, since you're clearly a shill trying to sell us on a different VTT by saying foundry is le bad, why don't you just come out of the woodwork and tell us what it is, instead of just lying about foundry and hoping people wouldn't immediately call you out?

>>96898078 (OP)
>Almost 2026
>Foundry hate thread
Nobody even remembers that shit exists, you dumb retard. 2023 called, they also don't want you there.

>>96898078 (OP)
It's popular with people who think GMing has to be a full time unpaid job, basically people who have only ever played online and never known the experience of being around an actual table drawing on a grid mat with a marker.

>>96898214
>but then your players can see the whole map immediately
How the fuck would you avoid that without line-of-sight?

>>96898278
I think digital is largely an inferior experience compared to actual irl play, but especially because ignorant GMs just 1:1 port the table experience into a VTT. If you're not taking advantage of the tools available, why play online? If that means I have to spend some time doing maps, fiddling with bing bing wahoo special effects, autistically tuning modules and macros, then I improve *my* enjoyment of the game which often translates to my players also getting a better experience.

>>96898260
what VTT tool do you use?

It's generally agreed upon that if you don't really care about your maps, just use owlbear rodeo or free roll20. Of the paid options, foundry is the best because of modularity. The fact that you don't know how to use it is your problem

>>96898247
>>96898292
it's simple:
>party enters a room
>drag a rectangle to reveal the room

>>96898346
>The fact that you don't know how to use it is your problem
I know how to use foundry; I've run a few campaigns in it. I've got the stack of modules which give it feature-parity with roll20. It's just cumbersome and makes the worst part of GMing (prep) even worse.

>>96898314
>If you're not taking advantage of the tools available, why play online?
No one is playing online because they prefer to play that way, we do it because we don't know people IRL to do it with.

>>96898373
>party enters a room
>drag a rectangle to reveal the room
Why complicate it when foundry does it easier
>party enters a room
>they can now see the room
>this is somehow worse

>stack of modules that give it feature parity with roll20
Okay, now I know you're trolling because foundry has literally every single feature r20 has by default, without needing modules. Except dice fudging, but if you use that then you're a faggot.

>>96898414
>Why complicate it when foundry does it easier
it's not easier. You have to build your entire dungeon twice so that it includes virtual walls and doors.

>>96898434
not that anon, I just wanna say you are wrong
.t ran and played campaigns in Foundry

>>96898434
roll20 solution
>draw the map
>cover it with fog of war
>have to awkwardly reveal it in rectangular sections regardless of what you actually drew
foundry solution
>draw the map with wall tools
>when players enter something it gets revealed
>supports any shapes naturally and without effort
you might just have brain damage, roll20 is more effort for a worse result

>>96898414
>foundry has literally every single feature r20 has by default, without needing modules.
3D dice
dungeon draw
simple fog
drag upload

>>96898456
>have to awkwardly reveal it in rectangular sections regardless of what you actually drew
there's literally nothing awkward about this. While you're describing a room, you drag a rectangle around it. This is easier than building your map twice.

>>96898078 (OP)
See, I just run games in my living room. Avoids the issue entirely.

>>96898467
>3d dice
my bad, that's one thing
everything else is supported by default
>muh building map twice
I can't help but notice you keep making that claim over and over again
is it because you know it's bullshit but you hope that if you keep repeating it, perhaps it will become true?

>ACTUAL UNIRONIC ROLL20 SHILL THREAD
absolute state of this board, hoo boy
hope you're being paid well for this op

>>96898508
>build a map in dungeonscrawl
>import into foundry
>now need to draw walls and doors again

>>96898514
roll20 is unironically better than foundry but it's still not good enough. hence the frustration about the state of VTTs. everything is clunky and nothing works well

I'm still not using roll20. Sorry.

>>96898078 (OP)
No, you're objectively correct. The reason I still prefer Roll20 is because all that is optional. You can just drag a map in, drag some tokens in, and be ready to play in like, 30 seconds (so long as you have the map and tokens prepared)

imagine thinking roll20 is better than anything
I'd rather just share my screen with mspaint open than to use that

>>96898575
Hello OP
Are you paid per post?

>>96898716
kys retard nogames tranny chud

i advocate for my favorite brand for free :^)

>>96898514
>>96898574
>>96898634
>>96898716
>>96898790
actual OP here. why are you guys upset?

I like Foundry because it is good, and I am a happy customer :)

>>96898392
Yup. I fucked around with the advanced stuff in Foundry initially, but it was a lot of work for little return. So once I got comfortable I used it as a glorified drawing tool, and am happy with that. But I use it at all because I have friends I met online, and I'm not going to organise RPG night which requires everyone to fly to one destination. But if we had a teleporter we'd of course play in person, who wouldn't?

>>96898813
Me. VTT and PDFs are superior to a table and books in terms of convenience. If I saw my RPG group IRL, I'd suggest we do something else instead like go to a club, or a hike.

>>96898634
I've run games like that and they were easier and faster than using roll20.

What's great about Foundry is that it's suitable at each level of competence. Want to play pure theater of mind? You got it. Want to play just map and a few tokens? Sure, you can do that too. Do you want to have a full experience with cinematic camera pans, health bars, visual novel style conversations, hidden languages and animations for each and every of your players' actions? You can have that as well, just don't talk to me you weirdo.

>>96898078 (OP)
>Am I truly the only GM who despises line-of-sight and sound effects and all that video game shit
You're not the only one who doesn't need this stuff, but maybe you're the only one angry about it to the point of making a thread. Other GMs simply don't use Foundry.

>>96898414
>Except dice fudging

That's base functionality in Roll20? That's nuts, how does that work? Is there any kind of flag that the game has that enabled, or is it just every GM has the button regardless and it's up to the honor system whether they're using it or not?

>>96898314
fwiw I play in-person and still use digital tools because the user experience is just so much better. Plopping our laptops down on the table takes up less space than physical battle maps and rulebooks used to, and--at least in my experience, with my facility at Photoshop and stuff--actually prepping and using maps and tokens is way, way faster than either creating them beforehand or drawing/erasing them at the table. Switching between maps or dashboards, getting minis in and out of boxes, even assembling dice rolls--every part of the experience is just lightning fast compared to using physical artifacts.

I use Foundry now but used MapTools for like eight years, and briefly used Roll20 and FantasyGrounds, atlhough I wan't a huge fan of either of them. I'd use any of them over pen and paper at this point though, in-person or not, no contest.

>>96898078 (OP)
>What am I missing?
Most everyone who goes with it ooh's and aah'a by the fact that you can add in more production value, without realizing most players don't give a fuck about how pretty the game looks, they just want the least amount of graft between them and being able to do shit.
There are some smart anons who know how to code their own modules for it though and use that heavily to their advantage to run things that are automation-heavy, but none of them post on this board, so we've only got 2nd rate retards promoting it.

>>96898321
None, he doesn't play games.
When he says nobody has cared since 2023, it means he briefly played with it in 2023 but was too lazy and stupid to figure out, and he was too annoying and asocial to get a group, so now he has sour grapes and wants to pretend like he would have succeeded if his tools were better.
There's always insecure little autists who behave like this, but TTRPGs are particularly infested with them.

I'm considering starting my first online game for IRL out of town friends. Can anyone point me in the direction of vtt solution and tutorial for said vtt that will be the least hassle?
System is PF2 if it matters. I'm an experienced gm, but the only games I've run online is theater of the mind stuff.

>>96898078 (OP)
If you don't want to use the extra features, you can turn them off, you fucking retard.
>WAAAAA, I DON'T WANT TO USE THESE OPTIONS, SO NOBODY SHOULD!
Shut the fuck up. You're allowed to have your server be just an image of a grid, and a contained for character sheets. You're well within your rights to do that, and enjoy it.
But I'll never understand why you bitter shitters get mad that other people put in more effort than you do. It's not enough that you're too much of a lazy faggot to put effort into your game, you also need to get pissy and stop other people from trying.
Fucking why, dude?
Quit being such a dickhead. Just because you're too lazy, stupid, and entitled to enjoy playing with the maps doesn't mean you need to stop ME from having MY fun.

>>96899550
roll20 is absolutely the least hassle. it's pretty much drag and drop. the entire thing runs in a web browser.
It's definitely got its own issues but you won't notice them playing a single pf2 campaign.

>>96899574
>But I'll never understand why you bitter shitters get mad
I had to buy foundry to run a specific system that roll20 didn't support and the experience sucked. Now I'm bitter that I own both a ttrpg I can't really run and a vtt that I hate. every time I feel inspired to return (for lack of better options) I leave disappointed and I'm frustrated that the market pursues flashy tools over simple ones

>>96899677
You're literally complaining that it's better and has more features, but you're pissed because you're a retard and you don't want to learn to use them. You just want sloppa and micro-transactions, and to have to make an account and login to some corporation's website in order to play your game. Cool. Okay.
Me?
I want to own my software, be able to use it how I want, and I'm not intimidated by having access to more features and modability. Roll20 *is* easier to use, but only because it's streamlined for normie retards who can't run computer software unless it's presented like an app for kids.
You're too retarded to ever dream of something like a fully realized ship map with moving background, multiple up/down levels, and lighting effects. You don't want those capabilities, in fact, you want them taken away so you can plague everyone else with your low-effort creativity.
You can learn how to make better shit in Foundry, you just have to put in a couple of hours of actual fucking work once a month, ooo, scary!
This is like talking to someone in Warhammer 40k who complains that other people are allowed to use paint on their minis, because he either wants to buy them pre-painted, or otherwise he thinks everyone should be forced to use grays like he does.
For real, nigger, why even do the hobby at all if you aren't willing to improve at it? Instead of treating the increasing intricacies and complexities you'll need to deal with as walls, treat them like challenges you're just going to need to overcome as you actually improve your skills. If you can't do that, then at least stop trying to wheedle me down into mediocrity with you. You have the mentality of a crab.

>>96899803
>Roll20 *is* easier to use,
thanks for validating everything I've said. GMing already requires lots of effort and I don't want to wrestle with a bloated VTT on top of that.

>why even do the hobby at all if you aren't willing to improve at it?
Ah, but moving backgrounds and spooky lighting are parlor tricks, my young anon. they're incidental to a good tabletop experience. I've done this for a lot of years and the most crucial lesson has been to remove time-wasting chaff instead of adding more.

>>96899250
Nope, no flags, no way to turn it off, a fudged dice roll will always be shown as an option alongside other dice shortcuts and the players have no way of knowing unless everyone is playing with gm permissions.

>>96899250
>>96899929
As for how it works, in the dice shortcut dropdown, you select a die, and then you select what the result of the roll will be. It will then play the animation of a die being rolled, showing up on the number you fudged it as. To the players, this is indistinguishable from a normal die roll.

>>96899903
You want something easy to use, then you can stream MS paint over discord and draw rooms in that. It's free and you don't need to give your details to a company that is open about selling your data, and even when they aren't selling it, has had over a dozen data breaches since they were established.
You're paying a subscription for literally nothing. You are the lowest type of goycattle.

>>96899550
>System is PF2 if it matters.
Foundry is the best possible solution for PF2 by a mile. With the amount of automation it requires it's functionally impossible to play it over most other VTT, while the foundry implementation has all content (including unreleased playtest content) installed for free as part of the system, with everything scripted.

>>96898321
TTS

>>96899939
>>96899951
That's pretty slick. I guess I was just kind of shocked that it would be an "always-on" kind of thing but I imagine it must've been a pretty heavily requested feature. I mean I guess functionally it's not any different than the GM just rolling behind a screen, I don't know why I was clutching my pearls over it. It sounded blasphemous lol.

>>96899951
>ou want something easy to use, then you can stream MS paint over discord
that's not easy. I would need a separate dice app and some way for my players to manage character sheets. MS Paint also doesn't have fog of war tools which are necessary.

>You're paying a subscription for literally nothing. You are the lowest type of goycattle.
I've never paid for roll20

>give your details to a company that is open about selling your data,
lmao. Is this seriously your beef? big data is spying on my campaigns? you're a complete sperg

>>96899982
>that's not easy. I would need a separate dice app
Google "online dice roller"
>a way to manage character sheets
A text editor.
>MS paint also doesn't have fog of war tools
Draw the rooms as the players enter them.
>zoomgroid retard that doesn't understand the most basic part of internet opsec doesn't give a shit that his data is being sold
Americans really are the lowest form of life.

>>96899974
Tabletop sim is the only real answer. Supports 3d, you get to play with your minis, you can draw a map on a map and just place down cover and misc items, or load a fully 3d map (multiple mods available for this). You can use fog of war if you want, it doesn't need modules and fancy scripts to roll dice, it doesn't cost fucking 50 bucks like foundry nor requires port forwarding.

>>96899978
>defending dice fudging
if you fudge dice, you are not playing an rpg. you are watching your GM control a story that you are observing. You are an observer in your failed novelist GM's shitty fanfic. If your VTT even allows for dice fudging in any way that the players cannot immediately know that it has happened, then it fails as a platform for RPGs.

>>96900026
>seething autistic foreigner devolves into shitposting and opsec larping

>>96900037
>it doesn't cost 50 bucks like foundry
Isn't it $15 per user? For a normal group that's already $75, compared to the $50 one off purchase that only the host needs to pay for foundry.

>>96900042
>product addicted amerigolem needs his jewish masters to rape him harder and harder while taking away more features and can't make do with simple methods, and then gets mad when an open project provides a reasonable alternative that has everything he needs and more, because he has already developed brand loyalty to the hyperkikes currently carving out his asshole
LAWL

>>96899939
Why would you roll a die at all? Why not just say "this thing happens?" I don't understand people at all, man.

>>96900048
Except it goes on sale for half as much. I got it for 7 buckaroos, which means 35 bucks "party" expense for 5 people. You also get to use it for cards games and board games, instead of just 2d RPG maps.

>>96898795
For what it's worth I do think that foundry is overcomplicated. When I run games I used to use Jamboard, but now I just try to run in person or not at all. I do play in a game that uses foundry in person since some players are remote. It's cool to see what our GM can get working in the system, but sometimes a thing breaks and we get stuck in tech support mode for a dozen or so minutes, which sucks. I haven't had foundry actually limit what I can do in game any more than the rules would so far, even with playing a verticality-focused build with a lot of running and jumping. But that is also because the GM is prepping for that sort of thing in advance, and I think that if I did something really out there like bombing something and pulling out the structure damage tables that foundry might not be able to keep up.

While I have your attention I would also like to say that Comp/CON and other automated character sheets are a fucking scourge because it means the more shitass of my players can phonepost under the guise of looking as their sheets and they still somehow manage to lose the fucking things.

>>96900065
>sale prices are relevant to thing A but not to thing B
huh?

>>96900058
>has free healthcare
>still refuses to take his meds

>>96900058
schizoslop post

>>96899974
>>96900037
TTS confuses me most of all. Isn't that the hardest way to prep a session, by grabbing specific 3D models and arranging them on a virtual board? it seems like the worst of both worlds.

>>96900061
I have no idea. I think some people just like the idea of "playing an RPG" simply to observe the culture and convince themselves that they are part of a niche, but actually hate everything about the process of actually playing RPGs and just want some coffee table collaborative storytelling, but can't actually admit that's what they want so they parasitize RPGs instead.
I would be very happy if they found their own damn place instead of shitting up RPG spaces, personally.

>>96898321
A fucking tabletop.
If you play or run online, you are retarded, no question asked and no excuses accepted.

>>96899539
>t. actual newfag
2023 saw /tg/ overfilling with hating on Foundry (to the point most anons assumed it's some reverse-marketing), thanks to some stupid online drama on twitter or whatever.
Nobody cared back then, nobody cares now.
But you went out of your way to flaunt just how fucking new you are that you don't get a context from TWO YEARS ago.

>>96900093
>But you went out of your way to flaunt just how fucking new you are that you don't get a context from TWO YEARS ago.
this board is pretty heavily compartmentalized. I've been here for ages and I didn't know there was controversy about that

>>96900088
How's it any different from plucking tokens from foundry? At worst is has marginally longer loading by loading in the bag, but you just prepare them as the session starts and you're set. It's like pulling the minis and terrain from a box irl

>>96900077
I've personally never seen it go on sale, nor for how much. I'm guessing it goes down to 40/35 at best which makes the price equal anyway

>>96900093
To be fair to him, some boards (such as this one) will have nobody know what the hell you're talking about unless you're either in a specific thread or at the right place at the right time, like /vg/, /lit/, and /lgbt/, which ironically are the boards with the funniest drama.

>>96900093
Cool bro, not everyone is a no-life ghoul that spends all his time on this place.

>>96900125
>How's it any different from plucking tokens from foundry?
you can use any image for that - I use tokenstamp personally. it just seems like it's going to be a much harder time finding (or making) models.

>>96900088
>the hardest way to prep
Idk about prep (it would be if you make 3d maps, that shit is autistic), but the play experience for me it's better. I've had the chance of use both, and foundry felt somehow more clunky and weird, and laggy due to being browser based with all the fancy effects, since I've got a shitty laptop. TTS is technically more clunky on paper due to being a simulator but only with your mouse, so things like measuring accurate diagonal and vertical distance are difficult to impossible depending on if you have a wall to measure against, but I found it much smoother and intuitive. I mean, you pick up "physical" dice to roll them, and pick up minis or tokens to move them. I assume foundry also gives you non-gridded movement, but I only played gridded, which you can turn off with TTS, so your models don't snap.

>>96900174
You can use images in tts too, and have 2d images on a base. I actually prefer this to photoscans or full 3d models, I think they look neat. Picrel goes a step further by having two separate images for front and back, which are just an extra.

>>96899399
Funnily enough ChatGPT is surprisingly competent at writing the modules for you. I haven't done anything complex but the few simple features that were missing it wrote in seconds.

>>96899966
Thanks anon, if all I really want are map features (i.e. not automated rolls) is the answer still the same? I wasn't planning on entering character stats and such, but if it's the recommendation for PF2 I should probably check it out.
>>96899677
Sounds like it would be easy to just mess around with roll20 to see if it has what I want then, thanks anon.

>>96900039
Oh untwist your knickers, you can appreciate that a feature's neat without committing to using it. You can save the argument for the weekly pro-skub v. anti-skub dice fudging thread, I'm sure it'll come around again soon.

Foundry is so practical and easy to use.
I call skill issue on your part.

>>96898545
>making your maps in software that doesn't automatically generate walls for your maps
SHIGGY DIGGY

>>96900527
>if all I really want are map features (i.e. not automated rolls) is the answer still the same?
That might be a bit different then. A lot of the map features that are well-programmed for pf2e are things like vision types, light levels, etc that are set on the character sheets, so if all you need is a grid that everyone can see then foundry might be more than you need. It the concern is that it's a lot of effort to sort out the sheet, don't worry about that because it only takes about 1~3 minutes to set one up depending on level and how many feats you need to drag in.

>>96900527
>Thanks anon, if all I really want are map features (i.e. not automated rolls) is the answer still the same? I wasn't planning on entering character stats and such, but if it's the recommendation for PF2 I should probably check it out.

NTA but the strength of Foundry's PF2e implementation is the officially-supported system which automates a silly amount of the game. If you're just looking for a virtual tabletop and aren't interested in any of the extra doodads, then Foundry's lead narrows considerably. Just about any VTT solution would work there. To be clear, Foundry's still in first place, but is it *fifty dollars* in first place? That's gonna depend on how autistic you want to get with your set-up. Foundry's got an active module community and feature support for just about any goofy thing you want to add to your maps, but if you're not using it there's no sense paying for it.

>>96901189
>>96901201
Thanks for explaining both of you.
I have generally ignored the automation tools for other games since I almost always run with some amount of house rules which are tough to implement, but for PF2 I might just run vanilla so I can use the automation if it is as easy as you say.

>>96898078 (OP)
I've never used a VTT. None of them offer anything I care about or require.

>>96898078 (OP)
What do you mean by video game shit? Line of sight exists in real life. So does sound. Are you an alien or an artificial intelligence?

>>96898214
You mean like moving a figure on a physical map? If your system uses a grid, how else would you model movement other than by moving some token on a representation of a grid?

>>96898795
Why didn't you answer us when we asked you how much you're being paid to advertise here?

>>96900768
No, I'll just kill you.

>>96901547
Depending on the house rules, they can be fairly easy to run with 2e, and there are system settings that allow you to make tweaks based on some common house rules for the things that require a more system-level modification.
Personally I've made some pretty extensive changes to the system including new classes that use unique mechanics, modifying the progression of existing classes, and making some tweaks to some core systems. The most I had to learn was looking up some IDs for variables, and that was only at the most extreme end.

>>96900768
It's not a "neat feature", it's antithetical to the very concept of an RPG. We're not talking about some inbuilt way to change to a different resolution mechanic, like support for using a deck of cards instead of dice, or being able to modify a mechanic to something that might work better in a different system. We're talking about something that is fundamentally incompatible with the most basic concept of an RPG.

>>96902073
So let me see if I'm understanding you here:
>You don't find any traps.
This is fine.
>[rolls dice] You don't find any traps.
This is somehow bad and wrong and not an RPG.

It's like I'm watching one shitpost of a thread morph into another shitpost of a thread before my eyes.

>>96898078 (OP)
I don't like Foundry either; felt more like it's for people who like the idea of playing with a VTT as opposed to people who think it's a necessary evil to get a game going

>>96899298
Maptool is the VTT of gods
Honestly it really captures the DIY tabletop feel of yore (but I still prefer actual tabletop)

>>96902154
Why would you roll dice if the outcome of the dice doesn't matter?

>can't reorganize files through the editor
It's shit!

>>96902283
To stall for time while I think on my feet.

>>96902937
Oh, if only there was a way you could communicate that to your players or someth-
>Sorry guys, can we take a two minute break? Just gotta clear my head and get my notes in order.
How hard was that? Literally just communicate, it isn't hard, you don't need to lie to your group.
>inb4 muh autism, i can't into communication
I'm aware, I'm very autistic and have had several groups break down due to communication issues. It wasn't until just last year, after about 15 years in the hobby, that I was able to actually finish a campaign without it fizzling out early. You'll find things are a lot easier when you're honest and transparent with your players. You can do it, I believe in you.

>>96898078 (OP)
Just use something else if you don't like. Nothing compels you to use foundry, I have literally just used the dice and character sheet functions for some games, it's only complicated if YOU choose to make it complicated.

Why did you spend the fifty bucks then?

>>96902937
Thinking on your feet implies that you don't have a set outcome in mind, so fudging the dice wouldn't be applicable in that situation. "I'm not sure, so I'll roll the dice to buy some time/maybe get some inspiration from the results" is different than "I'm going to roll the dice, but I'm just going to say I rolled a 15 because I need a thing happens when I roll a 15 to happen right now."

If there is a zero chance for something not to happen, just say it happens. If there is a chance, then roll the dice and respect the roll. It isn't complicated.

>>96898321
NTA but I use R20 with the VTTES+BetterRoll20. Kind of have to because I run a lot of homebrew systems or fan-made stuff that has no official support on any VTT, and I'm not learning how to code for something my 15 year old potato of a PC probably can't even run, let alone paying 50 dollars for it when I get everything I need with a couple of browser plugins, an image hosting site, and knowledge of how to use roll20's schizo code.

>>96903902
>I use R20 with the VTTES+BetterRoll20
>Better20 is a D&D 5e-exclusive plugin
>I run a lot of homebrew systems or fan-made stuff that has no official support on any VTT
Something's not adding up

>>96898078 (OP)
>”ahh I hate video game shit!”
Play in person
Do theater of the mind.
Set up a camera and an alphanumeric grid for players to use and move pieces for them.
Use the over complicated thing and ignore features you don’t like.

So many options to avoid this.

>One time payment and you own the license to use it forever
>Literally as simple or as complex as you want it to be
These are the only two points that matter.

>>96905306
Unironically; young people don't appreciate owning things.

>>96905306
>Literally as simple or as complex as you want it to be
For D&D here but this isn't true anymore. Ever since WOTC launched their Official 5e Module™ and made it the only option, playing 5e on Foundry has been so fucking ass.
>forced to choose between 2014 or 2024 rules instead of what everyone is doing - picking and choosing
>godawful changes to how items and feature modifications work, the whole thing is a UI nightmare
>broke a lot of modules with most just stopping development outright
For my D&D game I actually had to switch to Roll20 and resub again. There are a lot of bells and whistles missing but with the Pro options you basically get to do everything I need and it's way simpler to do stuff like NPC features, macros, tokens, etc. plus with Jumpgate adding a lot of improvements and quality of life features you really get your money's worth with an annual subscription for a premium virtual tabletop experience.

>>96905404
Have you tried not playing 5e?

>>96905404
>you really get your money's worth with an annual subscription for a premium virtual tabletop experience.
You talk like a marketer.

>>96905340
Zoomgroids are just financially illiterate. They can't rationalise that after 6 months, a $9/month subscription is more expensive than a $50 upfront purchase. They just see the $50 purchase, think "that's a lot of money", ignore it, and then happily stay subscribed to an equivalent (or worse) service for over a year.
Yes, basic addition is too difficult for this generation.
Yes, we're fucked.

>>96898545
>blah blah blah spoonfeed me
I see what the point of this thread really is kek.
>https://foundryvtt.com/packages/dungeon-scrawl-importer
Post your favorite modules instead of talking to the faggot known as "OP".

>>96902283
NTA but not rolling in a situation where there could be traps tells your players that there never was anything to find in the first place, while "pointless" rolling leaves them with the possibility that there might be something there and they just didn't find it, and they will approach the situation accordingly. Knowing they aren't 100% guaranteed to be safe will subconsciously keep them on their toes rather than having to pretend like "we better be careful because there totally could be traps here, guys (there aren't any)".

>>96905621
Fair point, but this is another thing different that fudging dice, which is what was being talked about.

Haven't found a better VTT yet. IRL feels better ofc but for playing with internet frens or real life ones when there is no opportunity to meet is really easy with Foundry. Admittedly it does take a moment to learn but it really ain't that difficult.

>>96898214
>but then your players can see the whole map immediately, which also doesn't make sense. Foundry includes no fog of war tools by default.
the line of sight and wall placement tools ARE fog of war anon....99.999% of battle maps are not so large that the fucking curve of the horizon is distant enough that it's what is stopping you from seeing the edge of the map, it's virtually always gonna be because your character's vision is obscured by something in the way, whether it's a wall, buildings, trees, or even other people down the street. Even a football field sized map will have anyone able to easily see all the way to the end if it's not blocked.....which is what the walls are for

>>96898078 (OP)
I don't like it because playing with grids and drawing is clunky and shit on it.
It's got some cool stuff like simple FoW but the focus is obviously on automation.

>>96900048
tts is around 2 bucks per person

>>96910283
it's $20 right now

>>96900072
I'm sorry some of your players are shitasses, anon. I only play that game through Foundry these days, so we just use the VTT sheets. But way back before Comp/CON I ran the game live, using paper sheets, and it wasn't bad. Maybe you can insist on going analog again, if the screens are becoming a distraction.

>>96900061
Sometimes, it is because saying "this thing happens" will prompt an argument about "but I should be allowed to roll!" And the GM would rather not have that argument. Maybe this isn't even railroading! Maybe the players are just babies. But it is usually about railroading or protecting some pet NPC.
Sometimes, it is because the GM's best friend has been pouring his heart and soul into the session, but the dice keep kicking him in the nuts. The GM wants to give him a win when things are at their most dire. But it is vastly less memorable, less fun, if the GM just says "nah, you hit him because you're cool."
I have never done either of these. But I can understand the temptation.

I use maptools.

>>96898078 (OP)
Use owlbear rodeo, dummy

>People saying Foundry is harder to use than roll20 itt
Huh? Did I miss something? I've never had trouble using Foundry unless I was doing something fancy with a weird module.

>>96898456
>player moves their character way too far into a room and ruins the surprise
lol

>>96913377
Yeah, that sure would suck, if only foundry had a solution to that.
Wait, it does, you can set autopause tiles, or mark doors as locked.
Retard.

>>96913195
You're in a marketing thread. I think anyone here that is genuinely, seriously suggesting the use of r20 is on their payroll, or worse, unpaid shills trying to defend their several years worth of subscription fees sunk into it.

>>96913425
>discussing a free program is paid shilling
>discussing a paid program is not
I swear this board attracts the dumbest goddamn retards on the planet.

>>96913493
You can shill for free products yes, especially when said product has subscription fees.

>>96913493
>free
>actually not free, you don't host it, you own nothing, and have to pay a subscription to make it usable
vs.
>pay once, own it forever. Host it yourself, no subscriptions
You're right about one thing, this board certainly does attract some massive retards. Retard

>>96913515
>completely misses the point
See what I mean?

>>96913559
>>actually not free
I've been using it for like 10 years and I've never paid anyone a cent. I don't even know what's behind the paywall, it has a map and rolls dice and that's all I need.

I'm going to get a pack of cigarettes, anyone want me to get their dad while I'm at it?

>>96913645
Nah, but can you pick me up a burger while you're out. I'll pay you back.

>>96913654
Gotchu.

>IM NOT A SHILL IM NOT A SHILL IM NOT A SHILL
cries the marketer, as he continues to talk like a marketer
l m a o .

Last time I used roll20 like a decade ago it didn't support tokens having their own unlinked character sheets- ie. You make a generic mook sheet and whenever you drag it onto the table as a token that token is always linked to that sheet even when you drag multiple of them, they're all linked to the same sheet. Total non-starter for any decent DM

>>96913613
>100mb storage limit on free tier
lol
lmao

>>96912249
You can boil both of those justifications down to "cowardice."

>>96898078 (OP)
It also does not work on phone.
I had genuinely better gaming experience when we were using IRC.

>>96913687
OP here, that's actually the exact kind of shit that I hate and it's funny to see that we're just totally opposed on it

I just want to drag jpegs onto the board. I have the NPC's stat sheets in a pdf that I've got open on another monitor, or I have them in a book open on my desk. I will NEVER want to waste prep time copying and pasting NPC stats into a web form during prep.

>>96913425
roll20 pays me $100 per (you).

>>96914497
if you're gonna do it like that then yeah just use mspaint, why are you using these ttrpg platforms at all? but its dumb not to take advantage of the features especially when they make the game run smoother and cut down on paperwork bs. I'm sure your players would be thankful to not have every combat encounter drag on for 1hr+ because you're constantly cross referencing sheets and looking shit up. Especially if you run a game that isn't for babies, something like cp2020 with per-limb damage tracking runs so much smoother when each sheet just automatically tracks that shit

>>96914497
>I just want to drag jpegs onto the board. I have the NPC's stat sheets in a pdf that I've got open on another monitor, or I have them in a book open on my desk. I will NEVER want to waste prep time copying and pasting NPC stats into a web form during prep.
You can do this in literally any VTT, Roll20 isn't uniquely better than foundry if all you're doing is this.

>>96914612
everything requires more interface wrestling in Foundry and that annoyance adds up.

roll20
>drag dragon.jpeg onto the board
>resize it by dragging

foundry
>Actors -> Create Actor -> Enter Name & select "NPC" from dropdown
>select Icon image -> Choose File -> navigate to dragon.jpeg
>right click on token -> Settings -> Appearance -> set dimensions to 2x2
>click Update Token

>>96898545
Roll20 is really really REALLY bad for a lot of games.

>>96914603
>I'm sure your players would be thankful to not have every combat encounter drag on for 1hr+ because you're constantly cross referencing sheets and looking shit up
this simply isn't an issue; it's no more difficult to do this than it is to run games at a real table.

>something like cp2020 with per-limb damage tracking runs so much smoother when each sheet just automatically tracks that shit
you're getting into weird territory here because that isn't fast or simple to run IRL either. Foundry and dynamic NPC booklets might offer leverage in that specific context, but that doesn't represent the experience of the average table.

>>96914732
Skill issue. In foundry you make the dragon actor, configure it if you need to make it bigger or something, and then you can just drag it onto the table whenever you want and it'll always be that size. You sound like a zoomer who doesnt know how files work

>>96914872
yeah, or I can just drag jpegs on the board, my players will all see them, and then we can play. It's the exact same result with less work.

>You sound like a zoomer who doesnt know how files work
nope, I'm a programmer in my 30s, which is exactly why I have no patience for cumbersome data-oriented design principles. I have no desire to perform data entry during prep, especially for encounters which I will only run once. I want to drag the jpeg and then spend my time running an actual game.

>>96914811
>this simply isn't an issue; it's no more difficult to do this than it is to run games at a real table.
Yes, but the point is that foundry makes those things easier than they are when playing physically and whatever you're doing doesn't, so you might as well just use mspaint. And yes bookkeeping can be difficult when playing physically depending on the game and situation, games being too slow because of frequent paperwork is an extremely common complaint

>you're getting into weird territory here because that isn't fast or simple to run IRL either. Foundry and dynamic NPC booklets might offer leverage in that specific context, but that doesn't represent the experience of the average table.
Complex scenarios and crunchy systems are not weird territory, yes 90% of people are playing 5e but fuck them they're stupid. and even simple systems can save a lot of time and headaches with these features, if you took the time to figure out how to use them you'd see what I mean. Having status effects automatically apply their temporary buffs/debuffs, players being able to just target an enemy and click 'attack' and it rolls to hit with all the relevant modifiers while also applying damage and calculating armor, being able to drop items and equipment in the environment for players to just drag and drop into their inventory where they can be equipped, dropped, etc. it goes on and on. It adds up and saves so much time. It can't capture the charm of playing irl but if you're gonna play online you might as well take advantage of the benefits

>>96914732
Why would you make an actor if you don't want it to have stats attached? Do you need another spoonfeeding? AHAHAHAHAHA
>baby's first day on foundryvtt
Make a fucking token faggot, takes 2 seconds. Install drag upload and it would take 1.

>>96915057
>finally, after patching and modding everything, I now have $50 roll20

>>96915082
Better keep the resolution down on that dragon token, wouldn't want to hit your 100mb file limit! LMAO

>>96910338
>>96900048
It's $4.50 for a steam key

My last experience with Foundry as a player

>Character sheets are heavily automated, but require the GM to open the game and figure out how to code each block of automation for every weapon and every ability
>Combat automates HP reduction but we had to select the enemy we were attacking, causing constant re-rolls since sometimes latency wouldn't register the selection/people would just forget.
>Some module conflict causes the textbox to erase if you click anywhere on the map
>Module Update between sessions 2 and 3 fixed this, but other things broke, had to re-do our sheet abilities mid-session
>Could not use italics without HTML formatting
>Could not bold words without HTML formatting
>You just talked as whatever token you had selected instead of selecting from a list which caused persistent confusion
>Text bubbles tied to tokens constantly moved cameras around and exacerbated this
>Also costed the GM money to host a server

We probably ended up wasting 5 hours of session time across the game itself, which only lasted 7 sessions (It was a short adventure), just trying to fix bugs/module errors/make the sheets and automation work in the middle of the game. It also took the GM like, all his spare time to prepare.
I guess it was kind of cool how a turn could be done in 30 seconds instead of a minute sometimes. But it usually didn't speed things up at all, took more time, and was cumbersome for ME to deal with, let alone the GM.

Roll20 is kind of shit and they add like, one useful feature every 2 years, but foundry is still worse somehow. The first company to make something that's as quick and easy as roll20 while still offering as much modularity as foundry without all the quirks and bugs would fucking dominate.

I use Foundry for my games with 4-7 friends, mainly pf2e. I like more than roll20 because there are a lot of good modules.

I do recommend you don't get crazy on the modules or if you do learn how to freeze your updates. The pf2e dev team is making constant updates that invalidate a lot of mods overtime.

Cons
>Loading in a large module can take a minute (AV takes 1-3 minutes for everyone to log in)
>You have to be careful with automation, sometimes people have the wrong target selected and will fuck up the damage
>Having a shop causes issues constantly. Players can sell a bow at 50%, original price 1gp. The game will sometimes payout 0g instead of 5 sp.

>>96916640
>>Character sheets are heavily automated, but require the GM to open the game and figure out how to code each block of automation for every weapon and every ability
Gotta call B.S. on this.
First of all, what system are you talking about? If it's the GM's own homebrew system, then yeah...he'd need to code all that. But if it's a known game, he'd only have to code custom items.

>>96917142
>First of all, what system are you talking about?
None, because literally none of that ever happened, and he is pulling shit out of his ass to try and sell his marketing.
Note the little bit at the end about "oh it cost the GM money to host a server" because of how frequently cost over time has been brought up in this thread as a point of discussion.
It's OP samefagging.

>>96917142
>First of all, what system are you talking about?
SMTRPG. I don't mean you have to FULLY code it, my bad there, but he had to find out what each of the sheets attributes or whatever we called in the module code to actually make the automation happen, and since there was no copy function this had to be referenced every time.

>>96917303
I don't know why you think I'm marketing for a VTT that literally doesn't exist yet.

Here's the thing, the biggest problem with Foundry is it focuses too much on automation when that just isn't feasible for simulating tabletop RPGs. For example, in PF2e with many potential sources of stacking modifiers and penalties in a combat encounter, IRL you would just give the player the total and they'd roll it. In Foundry you have to:
>go into the item/feature and press edit mode
>this brings up a dialog window and you have all the dials you can tune for that item
>btw you have to know coding or look into the source code of the PF2e system or else you don't wouldn't know how to call certain attributes like strength, dex etc. because they're straight up codeblocks unlike roll20 just doing @attribute
>in combat you have to click the feature to bring up the modifiers of the roll
>better make sure you're all good with exactly how much overall modifiers you input
>you wanna make inline options for certain items like in roll20 where you just plug in a one line macro? too bad, you have to make your own macro button and hope to god you brushed up on your Javascript because we don't do streamlined macro commands here because Foundry is for mature gamers who know how to code
Roll20 is the simplest and most efficient way to have a Tabletop RPG experience, period. Universality of features and functions of the sheet mean you don't have to learn an entire new language of setting up macros and commands for each system you have. You're also not at risk with a random update bricking your entire campaign just because the system or Foundry itself decided it wants to update. But most importantly, you have access to a whole world of supplements and assets that improve your play experience by being connected to the Roll20 marketplace which cuts down the prep time immensely letting you focus on the real meat of the experience which is playing with your friends.

>this obvious paid advertisement thread is still up
Grim, /tg/ really does have no jannies left.

>>96917860
I'm starting to think the paid shills are the people going
>nuh uh it didn't happen
when someone criticizes Foundry

>>96917860
is this a roll20 or foundry shill thread