Thread 96916134

v1.0 is OUT Edition

>What is Trench Crusade?
An alternate weird history 28mm/32mm tabletop skirmish game still in a pre-release playtesting phase but with the full release slated for this year. Based on the art and lore of Mike Franchina, whose illustrations you may have seen floating around on /tg/ for a several years now, and designed by Tuomas Pirinen, one of the original creators of Mordheim. It's grimdark, it's visceral, it's awesome, and it's very Blanchitsu.

>What Trench Crusade is not
TC not an excuse for you to discuss IRL religion, history that didn't occur in the game, culture war shit, or discord bullshit on /tg/. Keep it on topic.

>What's the QRD on the background?
The Knights Templar turned heretic and opened the Gates of Hell when they took Jerusalem during the First Crusade. Over 800 years later the war is still ongoing as technology has developed to a pseudo diesel-punk WW1 standard and a third of Humanity has sided with the Infernal Princes.

>How do I get started?
All the files are free online:
https://www.trenchcrusade.com/rules/

They used to be split between the website and the discord, but no more. For prosterities sake, the old mega will still be kept active even if it's unlikely to need updating: https://mega.nz/folder/70QH0BBa#Eg-blxYQKkY_C02wErnFTQ

>third party sources for making trenchers:
https://pastebin.com/YzXPVUAc

>Trench Compendium
https://trench-companion.com/

>Previous Thread:
>>96849307

>Thread Question
How're you feeling about v1.0?

>TQ
I was hoping Assassins would get more love, because they cost so much for not as much payoff.
As well, the rumor I heard about Alchemical Ammo getting +1 to damage rolls to deal with armor never came out to anything. My HL/Grail/Anti boys seem more or less satisfied, but they can post themselves.

>TQ
Errata already? And what’s with this stupid “add -1 die” instead of the more appropriate “apply -1 die”? And where’s the grimdark gone, it looks much more GW-ified than I expected.
I give it 8.5/10. Very good, not perfect. And can we PLEASE have an update on Carcass Front?

One of the best games that I've ever played, but the MAP they released is so WRONG that I shall never touch it again, and everyone working for TC should be killed. Upvote this if you agree.

Slightly sad that flamethrowers seem weaker and that tank killers swords are down to 2

>>96916134 (OP)
>TQ
Graphically it's nice, but content-wise I'm somewhat disappointed. The balance changes feel really weird, at least based on my experience. Pretty much all the units or weapons that felt borderline broken in our games have been left untouched. Things that were basically useless or didn't work well haven't received any buffs. Some things that were already quite strong got buffed for some reason and community has already found some quite broken ways to exploit those changes. On top of that a number of pretty glaring typos and mistakes have been discovered already despite the fact that they have been working on this thing for like half a year and almost none of the content inside is even new - and since physical books already went to print, those mistakes will almost certainly be in them.
I dunno, the game is good and my group has lots of great fun with it, but so far 1.0 made me somewhat lose faith in developers' competence honestly
The changes to campaign rules seem quite solid at the very least

>>96917221
>flamethrowers seem weaker
I've seen this, and that flamethrowers are broken good.
Which is it? What changed?

>>96916134 (OP)
>TQ
I'm sad that my plan to have ranged heretic legionnaires armed with gas grenades who can then opt into melee with a pistol/trench club combo has been effectively invalidated since pistols now use the melee stat in melee instead of the ranged stat.

Back to the drawing board for what I wanna do...At least this happened before I put the order in for my heretics

>>96917249
Used to be that regular flamethrower did an automatic armour ignoring hit with -1DICE to injury, while the heavy flamethrower did an automatic armour ignoring hit with no penalty
Now the regular version still works the same I think, while the heavy version still has the -1DICE penalty, but scores 2 automatic armour ignoring hits instead.

In my book this is a major buff: having 2 or 3 armour decreases the chances that a model will be taken out of action a lot, so by extension any attack that ignores armour is also extremely useful. The -1DICE penalty can be easily cancelled by spending a blood marker from target, if they have any. Also, an elemental weapon with 2 automatic hits means 4 guaranteed blood markers against most targets

I kickstarted for a horseyarch set with every faction and all the extra "free" stuff. So far all I've gotten is the dice packs, haven't played anything yet, painting minis from other games. Still waiting... What should I paint next while I continue to wait? Battletech mechs? Temu DKK for 40k? Heroquest extras? Some xenomorphs and colonial marines? Some bolt action/GI Joes?

>>96917720
>Battletech mechs?
do it, try mac-attack if you want a different look at company scale combat,

>>96918017
>this really is just mordhiem again.

Yes and no. Tuomas’ fingerprints are clear on both, but where TC is a skirmish game with campaign-lite elements, Mordheim is a full campaign game. Diving charges, falling, charges, melee etc all functions similarly; TC has no parries and the melee combat is much less satisfying.
Let me put it this way, I like them both but for different reasons. I ran a 2-yr Mordheim campaign at one point, I don’t see TC having that kind of ‘stickiness’ which is a shame.

My prediction: TC V2.0 will lean much heavier into campaign play instead of tacking it on like an afterthought. Campaign games are just more satisfying, and no, 4-6 scenario missions chained together are not a ‘campaign’.

>>96918450
I believe the "Carcass Front" will be that sort of expansive/engaging campaign stuff.

>>96916134 (OP)
>prosterities
Tuomas

>>96916134 (OP)
>TQ
Keywording is nice, and equipment having 'abilities' is also very clean, but I feel like there should have been more changes? Especially to a few of the weaker factions/variants (cough grail cough)

Any idea which faction is getting plastic kit next?

>>96919727
I would presume an evil faction, probably Heretic Legion if I had to guess. It would be cool if it was Naval Raiders, since they have a few designs out there now.

>>96919727
It's 100% gonna be heretic legion, and it'll likely be either the Naval Raiders or Trench Ghosts since they're currently the most fleshed out fluff wise and have the most art

So what are the selling points of the rules? Don't mention the lore, aesthetic or minis - I'm asking solely about the rules, mechanics and gameplay. I want to know why I should play TC over any other skirmish game.

>>96919860
Why not just simply read the rules, Anon? They're right there.

>>96919903
Many rulesets look decent on paper but their actual execution sucks ass. There are mechanics that feel like pointless bloat when you read them for the first time but make much more sense once you actually play the game. Reading the rules explains the rules in many cases but hardly gives you a valid view on the actual gameplay.
If there are no good sides of the game you can name immediately then I have to assume it's shit.

Post Lust

>>96919860
Blood markers are a cool mechanic and make playing the game a worthy consideration; while seemingly uneffective and obtuse at first, they offer a whole host of tactical viability that you don't see often in other games. Being able to attack someone and then effectively gimp them out of doing certain actions by giving up the chance to kill them "for good" can lead to interesting decision making and makes EVERY model theoritically matter. Also lends itself well to list building; you can purposefully take weapons that inflict lots of blood markers but are worse "killing" weapons that you then have to plan around and utilise properly, and there is some weapons that can apply blood markers to your own guys; essentially risking them being one shot or debilitated in some way but with some kind of pay off like ignoring armour.

Some models like to have blood markers and even get buffed by them, some models get stronger from everyone having blood markers but not being dead; it's a flexibile system that acts as a good foundation for other cooler rules and isn't hard to wrap your head around.

>>96919860
The sum total of your question is manipulative/dishonest. If you simply left it at the first part:
>So what are the selling points of the rules? Don't mention the lore, aesthetic or minis - I'm asking solely about the rules, mechanics and gameplay.
It would be fine. But instead of doing that, you sneak something in:
>I want to know why I should play TC over any other skirmish game.
What if the reasons to play it are lore, aesthetics and miniatures?

You have skipped ahead to a position of "the foremost reason to choose a skirmish game is the rules" without having to argue the validity of that position. Obviously a lot of people would question that position, so the least you could do would be to preface your question with a disclaimer: "I tend towards autism, and my sole interest in choosing a skirmish system is the gameplay. What about Trench Crusade might appeal to me?"

With that scolding out of the way, I don't think there's anything great about TC's mechanics or design lol. If you don't like the aesthetics you should choose another system.

K, game is dead.

>>96920519
>dead game!
>raise 3 million
>dead game!
>reaches completion
>dead game!
>switches to hard plastic kits
Keep whining, you utter faggot.

>>96920519
Yeah I don't have a Printer or know anyone who does. That shouldn't limit me from playing on a real table. I'm glad to see it.

Hey all, noob here. Posted in another thread that wasn’t the general about moving over to TC from GW games, and just had a couple questions. Is the game models agnostic? I’m looking at Trench Pilgrims, Heretic Legions or Cult of the Black Grail and they all seem ripe for converting models. Also is the scale more or less heroic scale? Thanks for any answers, dudes.

Any game is model agnostic if you don't give a fuck enough.

>>96920550
TC is risen!

>>96920635
>Is the game models agnostic?
100%. Kitbashing is encouraged by the developers.

>Also is the scale more or less heroic scale?
Either/or, really. The majority of people kitbash so it tends to skew a little more towards heroic scale because a lot of the kits being used are heroic or semi-heroic.

>>96920739
>100%. Kitbashing is encouraged by the developers.
for now

>>96920839
Oh go find something else to doompost about. Your shtick is old, and you're faggotry stale.

>>96920850
STL

>>96920519
What if I want to just buy the kits? What if I don't own a printer or don't want to print your dogshit Stl, huh? What then?

>>96920739
Nice. I was thinking of using Wargames Atlantic’s WWI Russians as a base for some Orthodox trench pilgrims, and there are a few options for Black Grail mutants.

>>96920858
And? They're still making models, just in a different material. A material that's easier to kitbash and convert with. And everyone's still not under, nor ever will be, any obligation to use them. You're trying to turn a non-issue into the fucking apocalypse you're still made that people don't like your faggot youtuber who got told to go be a faggot elsewhere. Final (You), you anus tonguing retard.

>>96920879
U mad fren?

>>96920933
>shits his pants on the bus
>people tell him to get off
>haha they mad
KYS

This shit is a cringe rugpull grift

>>96920519
This is it. I hoped it wouldn’t happen but it has. A crack in the founding pillars that made tc so promising has formed.
If tc goes to shit this point will be the official marker of when the rot began. I very badly want to be wrong though.

>>96923983
>plastic kits le bad
I hope you develop a malignant cancer very soon.

>>96924043
The game's online "community" is pure cancer, 28mag is cringeAF. 40k fans can be cringe AF but the online community for that is big enough to have space for edgelords, normies, dads and their kids, people who just like the models etc without so much retarded redd1t type gatekeeping

>>96924075
>uh muh unrelated retard shit though
Kill yourself faggot

>>96924043
Look at the price and quantity of a wargames Atlantic death fields infantry kit and then look at the official trench crusade plastic kit.
There’s no excuse or reasoning for such a high price that offers so little.

So Path of the Beast and Church of Metamorphosis are most likely getting rules down the road
What are some faithful factions they could do rules for alongside those

>>96916134 (OP)
I heard there's crazy drama going on inside the Trench Crusade Discord. I want to roll in the mud and wallow in the dirt, I want to know what's going on in there, how they're melting down in reaction to the, "no more STL" news

>>96920878
See
>>96918385

>>96924248
Why not join the discord yourself and report back then

>>96924240
Hebrew Knights are the one that is basically confirmed to appear at some points. Devs have also confirmed that Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth is coming, but I'm not sure whether that's supposed to be its own thing or just another Antioch variant. I think some Norse or Byzantine faction was also mentioned at some point

>>96924101
I want my dudes to be my own.

>TQ
Its a significant downgrade. Less choices due to assault changes, no risky charge, or choosing to be down or get up. Not to mention the absolute shit show of inconsistencies in regards to rulings ranging from such gems as
>saint meth anchorites being able to hotswap weapons
>8" anointed
>-4 homonculus due to how machine armor specifically says trench shields, and holy icon shield and fire shield are no longer classified as "trench shield"
>corruption belcher is an equipment type now
>gluttony can cause you to eat your dog since theyre equipment
>blast changes to make grenades stronger
>unlimited gas grenade wretched
>alchemists armor no longer works against any flame or gas item with ignkre armor
>fireteam change
>red brigade mercy dog nerf
This is just worse than 1.6.3 in every way.

>>96924248
K

>>96918450
>TC has no parries and the melee combat is much less satisfying.
DESU, Melee has bothered me a bunch in Mordheim and i have much more and much more recent experience with it.
Being able to have a guy packing a pistol and a whip for +2 strike first attacks is fucking kino but it feels kinda rough otherwise.
very swingy and that's fun in a narrative game, because sure you can have 3 attacks, ws 5 s6 (great weapon at initiative) and a 2 up save but you can still get dome'd by a peasant.
fucking hell i'm still mad about losing my questing knight that way.

>>96924571
And you should accomplish that by not using the official plastic kits given that they’re priced like warhammer models.

The official kits are most likely going to be gw tier priced if not worse if the first plastic kit is anything to go by.
Which is a real shame because from the kitbashing and 3d printing encouragement that made tc so appealing, this whole thing was supposed to be be an antithesis to gw’s shenanigans. But here we are seeing one of the founding appealing factors betrayed and so far it seems we’re giving ff a pass because they aren’t gw and small indie company.

>>96924075
What's wrong with 28mag, isn't it just mostly picutres of cool conversions?

>>96919773
I love this design

>>96925007
Keep up retard, I’m talking about using 3rd party models.

>backed the Kickstarter early
>Still waiting on anything to be delivered
>Keep emailing them every few months
>Just get told there's issues

I got scammed didn't I?

Alba lore yet?

For kitbashing do you guys have any recommendations for 32mm sprue manufactures?

>>96919727
Beasts

>>96920519
>now have to pay $65 + tip for a single monster unit

>>96925987
Or you can pay $10 and get something from reaper miniatures to kitbash instead. You 40kiddies not understanding the fact that you can use whatever minis you want is fucking bizarre.

>>96925469
And my post also talked about third party models. It is good that you’re focused on just using third party.
The best thing that can happen now is that the gw-tier priced models fail to sell well enough and that cancels future gw-tier priced models or forces factory fortress to act more reasonable and not make idiotic decisions like this in the future.
Unless the pricing is out of their control which I hope would be the case at this point as well.

>>96925700
Rugpull

>coolest unit is tank hunter
>no actual tank vehicles in the game

Wargames Atlantic:
>hard plastic injection moulded miniatures
>$40-50 for 20+ dudes
>free shipping worldwide

Factory Fortress:
>hard plastic injection moulded miniatures
>$50 for 8 dudes
>+ $35 shipping

what were they thinking? they've cultivated an anti-GW fanbase and they somehow thought everybody would forget or just wouldn't know that companies like WGA and Perry exposed the plastic price rort already.

>>96926523
>free shipping worldwide
ackshully
You need to hit the 75+USD amount in your shopping cart to get the free shipping worldwide.
And WGA infantry kits don't come with bases.
This doesn't change that they're still a better deal than what Factory Fortress is offering.
I'm very disappointed and I hope that Factory Fortress turns things around for the better.

>>96926084
Amen. Weird how many people are jumping to TC and acting like they’re unaware that they are free of GW’s cuntery. Nice Communicant BTW.

>>96926548
>I'm very disappointed
same
>I hope that Factory Fortress turns things around for the better
i don't. they've taken the mask off and revealed their true nature, i hope they crash and burn

>>96926084
>you can use whatever minis you want
For now. Don't expect 3rd party minis to be allowed at events once they have a full plastic range

>>96926654
>For now.
Forever, you buckbroken consoomer. No company can stop you from playing with what they want.

>>96926635
>hope they crash and burn
The irony is that without an additional income stream (such as from plastics) then that’s exactly what will happen anyway.
Rules are free, STLs get pirated, how else are they supposed to make money? Fancy dice? Cringy T-shirts?

How about instead of crying like a little bitch with a skinned knee, you come up with an idea to deliver them a revenue stream other than selling plastics? Bet you can’t, you little bitch.

>>96926654
>Has enough psychic power to see the future from here on out
>Didn’t have enough psychic power to foresee the shift to plastics

>>96926665
Moron, TC is an artistic project, its not supposed to make money. Its a way for people to create their own minis based on cool art. The art already exists and there are dozens of rulesets that could do the job, who cares whether this particular pack of sellouts succeeds or fails?

>why doesn't Turnip28 make money??

>>96926750
>TC is an artistic project, its not supposed to make money
Apparently Factory Fortress begs to differ, have you let them know they’re wrong and stupid? You should do that, go right to the root of the problem instead of sperging here where nobody can change a thing and even fewer people give a fuck about your dumbass opinions.

>>96926764
>calling out grifters is 'sperging'
>i'm going to be a passive aggressive bitch to defend people trying to hijack an art project

Pathetic, even the slightest hint of this behavior should have been ruthlessly criticised, Why are you even here if you're not a hobbyist willing to create your own models?

>>96926654
>For now. Don't expect it when <niche scenario that 99% of playerbase will never experience>

Oh no.

>>96926821
So wanting to make money from an IP you’ve developed is ‘grifting’ now? Even if making that money means developing more models, more warbands, new settings, advanced rules, terrain etc etc so that more people can play? The fuck are you, a communist?

>passive aggressive
Clearly you don’t understand that calling you a retard to your face is pretty fuckin’ far from passive aggressive, you fuckin’ commie retard.

>Why are you even here if you're not a hobbyist willing to create your own models?
Who said I’m unwilling to kitbash, you dopey cunt? FF has every right to profit off the IP and so plastics are just fine by me. I won’t be buying any because (spoiler alert) I’m a printfag. But I’m not going to act like FF is jamming a gun in my ribs and demanding my wallet.

Stop being a fucking hysterical woman about the whole issue and men won’t have to slap you to bring you out of it.

>>96926861
>I got called out for being a creep so i'm going to call him a communist.

If you think objecting to an art movement being hijacked is 'hysterical' you have issues. The only leftists here are the authoritarian creeps banning people for objecting to these changes.

>>96926935
>Art project
At the very start of the kickstarter they said because of the success, they can go fulltime on TC. Which means they need to have their income from the game.

>>96926935
It’s their art and their movement (assuming it even is an art movement) so who are you to judge what they do with it? It’s not ‘hijacking’ something when you make decisions about something you own, any more than it’s hijacking every time you drive your car. Fucking idiot.

You hate intellectual property rights or being rewarded for investment and labour or something? Thats why I called you a communist, you dipshit.

>>96926987
TC is ultimately an offshoot of I28, its an art project like all the other X28 things. These guys did not invent grimdark WW1 Crusader, the art that inspired it predates their attempts to profit from it. Its supposed to be by hobbyists for hobbyists.

>defending IP

Free market fundamentalists don't really support IP having legal protection, inb4 you call ancaps left wing.

>>96926665
The problem isn’t the selling of official hard plastic models. The problem is the price being charged for so little in the box that shows future models will be priced in the same way.
Why is this always being ignored?

>>96927043
We don't need to know how mad you are that something you were never going to purchase is too pricey, you miserable loser.

>>96927048
I’m not the other guy. It deeply worries me that the warhammer like fanboying kind of behavior has seeped into the trench crusade side of things as nobody seems bothered by the ff decision to not only make their plastic kits unreasonably priced but also that their future kits will follow the same pricing.

And worse still if this will be ff’s primary means of income to support tc instead of getting back on stls and their continued pricing then the chance of the company crashing and burning as the other guy wants to happen will have a high chance of happening.