Thread 96936700

Rain on Our Skin Edition

>Previous Thread
>>96927122

>Pastebin
https://pastebin.com/WiCHizn0
>Mediafire
https://mediafire.com/folder/s9esc6u7ke8k5/CofD
>Mega I
https://mega.nz/folder/ePQ1BKhJ#RCosRCh59Ki2Mpb1M9H3Uw
>Mega II (also containing fanmade games)
https://mega.nz/folder/ZbQ2zLJA#DOT-3df6rS2lLet4_RmqJQ
>WoD5 Mega
https://mega.nz/folder/7rQQ1LbQ#16_AiXVGo0P3_rVOJuoZyA
>STV content folders
https://pastebin.com/9i9zhydQ
>General Creation Kit
https://mega.nz/#F!FWJgBTbb!f7d5rARWHYzuI8-8aI-Bxw
>Ideas: BJ Zanzibar's WoD
http://167.99.155.149/
>Anders Mage Page
http://mage.gearsonline.net/anders/
>White Wolf Wiki:
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page

>Thread Question
Has your character ever been a double or triple agent? Did you succeed in betraying the target while getting away?

>>96936812
>tries to start a game of Wraith
>thread is over
pottery

>>96936825
>Premise: you have all recently been killed in various incidents involving other supernaturals.
Begin!
Does that give me some super cool and unique merits/powers?

>>96936825
Like there was a man on the inside

>>96936700 (OP)
Zamn, Lasombra women look like THAT?

>>96936833
I'm fairly certain it doesn't do anything though you can maybe use it as an excuse for supernatural merits

>>96936812
Okay, fuck it.
I'm commandeering this general to start a session of Wraith: The Oblivion Second Edition. Everyone, please refer to the Mega, if you need a PDF.
===
Premise: you have all recently been killed in various incidents involving other supernaturals.
Begin!

>>96936904
No

>>96936904
Not again, Ashen lady isn't going to be happy.

>>96936904
OKay, so what does my character see?

>>96936973
My dick.

>>96936924 >>96936933 >>96936973
A hazy smear of ashen gloam surrounds you. A vague shadow drifts across your vision. It seems that you are not alone.

Let's be honest here: which clan would you more likely he embraced into?

>>96937069
Nosferatu.

>>96930148
>chinese demigods might also be Christian angels
And they say that Mormon theology is odd!

>>96937050
Tear off my caul if it isn't already. I'm not going through another enslaving, the first was bad enough.
>>96937069
Probably tremere or malkavian.

>>96937048
Angler fish. Whales. Sharks. It'd become a case of shark+octopus/squid. Maybe a lamprey if they wanted some bloodsucking theme. Oh jellyfish and the bio-electric eels, that'd be a surprise option.

>>96937069
City Gangrel 100%

>>96937091
>Tear off my caul if it isn't already.
Give me a Strength check.

The Stargazers are the only Based Garou.

>>96937069
Malkavian. Im already a paranoid wreck with two tuplas.

>>96937217
That'd be what? d6 or d8?

>>96936700 (OP)
>>Thread Question
I'm starting off a chronicle in this situation, where my Caitiff may be caught in a political strife between the Camarilla and the Giovanni. Though secretly he fucking hates both. I'm sure they know it, though.

Ideally, it would just be nice enough not to end up as a sacrificial lamb.

>>96937291
Maybe on Planet Retard.

>>96937069
My ancestors came from northern Scotland, at least two of them (that I know of) were professional wolfers, one of them hunted Indians for money, and grandpa was involved in nuclear testing. I don't think getting embraced is very likely for me.

>>96937393
Dunsirn, makes sense

>>96937334
Let's make this easy and go with a difficulty of six.

>>96937069
Not going to lie, Toreador.

>>96937121
What's there to fight in the ocean that's not a normal animal

Are there any slavic bloodlines? I don't really hear much even when there's as much myth and folklore as other cultures

>>96937459
>>96937217
Here's hoping
>>96937488
What isn't down there. Illithid equivalents if you find a technocracy lab, weresharks, merkith fae,other vampires. Wraiths, can't forget that. Nephandi, probably they're everywhere and like the most hated thing in the setting.

Rolled 2 (1d6)

>>96937459
>>96937217
Fucking kill me

>>96937494
Modern nights Nosferatu are all descended from Baba Yaga, though most don't know it. Also there are the Old Clan Tzimisce.

>>96936700 (OP)
I was a Caitiff in the pyramid, infiltrated the Sabbat for a bit, & generally did whatever i could to steal secrets & run.

>>96937494
That's because Russia was basically under the control of Baba Yaga for centuries. And the other Slavic countires are the Tzimisce and Shadow Lords' territory. The OG Tzimisce being rather particular about their Clan's purity, such as it is. And the Shadow Lords ensuring no other leeches try to set up shop in their homelands.

>>96937535
>Modern nights Nosferatu are all descended from Baba Yaga, though most don't know it
They're actually descended from Medusa, another childe of Absimiliard.

>>96937504
Firstly, World of Darkness uses ten-sided dice. Secondly...
===
Like a sickly moth, you struggle in vain, trapped in the wisps of your funereal cocoon.
The figure lingers. Then, long fingers...
A faint draft brushes against your face as you are freed and exposed.
"Welcome to the rest of your death. Enjoy your stay..."

>>96937360
>Maybe on Planet Retard
So Earth, basically?

>>96937069
I vibe with the Warlocks, but I have shit luck so I could easily fucked into something that doesnt suit me or would screw me over in some way

Welcome to the Nosferatu clan!
Here's your sire.

>>96937620
Handsome lad

>>96937620
V5 isnt canon

>>96937582
I could've sworn it was Baba Yaga, but the wiki says "believed to be the progenitor of all non-Nictuku Nosferatu" for both their entries so now I don't know what to believe.

>>96937585
"Damn, had a date tomorrow night
'there a way to go back?"

>>96937642
They probably each ate Nosferatu claiming to be Matriarch, and then felt so guilty they made independent decisions to then assume her identity and raise her kids until they ripen

>>96930036
So Imbued are even more psycho than your average Neonate is.

>>96937703
Your average fledgling, cause a neonate eventually learns some kind of control.

>>96937750
Yeah but a Neonate (assuming not a Sabbat) also starts to blend into vampire society, with all its abuses. A Neonate won't mistreat the kine at that level even then. Though yeah, a Fledgling might lose control of their Beast and tear their family apart (if they have an extremely irresponsible Sire) but it would be out of their control, and deeply traumatizing. Not a choice willingly made.

>>96937670
"Ah, a sense of humor. You'll need that around here," the stranger gestures vaguely at the dismal environs. A droplet from above punctuates the space between you two.

>>96937334
>Using any dice that aren't D10s in a White Wolf game

>>96937804
"Guess not"
Char looks up

Rolled 2 (1d2)

>>96937863
[1] You gaze at a cavern ceiling so high that midnight fills the gap.
[2] On a high ledge, a lone woman weeps.

>>96937924
[I must leave to slumber. Think about your next action.]

>>96937924
"Eh, found the next one" and add have sex/find love as a passion or something
I'll think of an action tomorrow, or other anons will

>>96936700 (OP)
is there a reason to use mage the ascension rules over awakening rules even if you prefer the lore of ascension you can just port it over. This is a real question i've only played awakening.

Are the Graves family Giovanni turned Baali?

>>96938051
Angelis Ater with dedicated patron

>>96937069
Toreador.

>>96937069
I think I'd be fine as a nosferatu, honestly. I hate thinking about it, but I probably would be just fine.

God I fucking hate Hecata. What a stupid asspull

>>96938195
let your rage flow out from your keystrokes, you'll feel better after

>>96938195
you get used to it

>>96938195
Capuchin being three cappas in a robe is exceedingly dumb.

>>96938195
I mean... just don't play V5.

>>96938195
>the bloodlines the Cappadocius uniting into a singular clan
Im not opposed to the idea
>Nagaraja

Problem?

>>96938283
I really can't see the Cappadocians forgiving the Giovanni. If they had just ignored the old nerds and shoved them in a crypt somewhere and told everyone to forget about them, then sure. But the active purges mean there's no way they're going to accept unifying with the Giovanni. It would take the most gracious Elder imaginable to bury a grudge like that even for the vampires who were only sired long after this betrayal, let alone the ones who took part.

What's a good, complimentary CofD splat to pair with Vampire?

>>96938455
For, against, or as the odd stranger they see now and again?

>>96937069
Is there a clan for a guy who keeps himself up until the morning because of death anxiety and a fear of the dark? Whatever that one is.

>>96937069
Nosferatu, I wouldn't even know anything had changed.

>>96938502
Lasombra with the variant clan weakness that makes light darkness and darkness light to your eyes.

>>96938309
>I really can't see the Cappadocians forgiving the Giovanni
A seemingly common complaint that is addressed by the very FIRST opening fiction of the Hecata's sourcebook, Cult of the Blood Gods. I detest V5, but I like the Hecata as a concept, as I've preferred the Harbingers/Cappadocians over the Giovanni wank of previous editions. But to address your issue. It was explained that the Harbingers managed to convince the younger Giovanni, those who were Embraced LONG after the original pogrom against the Cappadocians, to join up with them. Why would the younger Giovanni be willing to do this, you ask? Because, like the issue among the Ventrue and Tremere, immortality doesn't really make way for upward mobility. Can't really move up when the positions rarely open up. So they get to talking. The Harbingers would teach the younger Giovanni some secrets of the trade their Elders refused to, and also help them get rid of the Elders of the family, those who really bear the grudge of the Harbingers, and ike you mentioned, actually took part in the pogrom. With the old guard out the way, the younger Giovanni would welcome the Harbingers back to the family, so to speak. Hence the Family Reunion.

>It would take the most gracious Elder imaginable to bury a grudge like that even for the vampires who were only sired long after this betrayal, let alone the ones who took part
Here's the thing, each member of the family DOES have a vendetta. Most of the lore sheets explicitly acknowledge this fact. They aren't just "one big happy family, all's forgiven" as some mouth-breathers make them out to be. They've all just come to agreement that the appearance of a unifed front would beneficial to all of them. They're all still backstabbing and avenging old nad new grudges, but they just try to "keep it in the family". V5 has many mistakes. The Hecata are not one of them.

>>96938529
>The Hecata are not one of them.
You forget the Nagaraja being part of them?

>>96938541
Anon, everyone forgets the Nagaraja

>>96938498
Something that is similar yet different, where some factions are able to make alliances but there's always the threat where one will take advantage of the other or just betray them

Are there any hunters in the lore that got turned into a monster but kept hunting after the fact?

>>96938541
I was deciding if I should have included a spoiler to address that tidbit. I see I should have.
The Nagaraja are essentially speaking, much like the Tremere, Caitiff. They have no Antediluvian. They do have access to Necromancy, though. That alone was the only reason they could be tied to the Hecata. Speaking meta, adding them to the Hecata was just to keep them playable.

>>96938547
Like this anon point out, would you rather have them be included, or go the way of the Kuei-jin? V5 offers only these 2 options. See the Baali.

>>96938556
Darkling that's an Antiquarian. An Inguma beast possibly with a whispering hunger. A veteran pilgrim sin-eater. A hunter or small cell belonging to the faithful of Shulpae. Promethean's kinda hard unless the disquiet is slowed. I don't know enough about mummy or deviant

>>96938547
I blame the Harbingers sneaking in Black Hand friends

https://gameworldobserver.com/2025/11/07/swedish-analysts-have-estimated-the-production-budget-of-bloodlines-2-at-62-8-million
>Bloodlines 2 cost 600 million Swedish kronor (62.8 million USD), according to estimates by analysts from the Swedish bank Swedbank. This does not include marketing expenses, which would increase the budget.
>According to data from VG Insights, the Steam version of Bloodlines 2 has earned 13 million USD to date.
>The service Gamalytic estimates its revenue more conservatively at no more than 8.4 million USD.
Can we now bury the 5th Edition and finally get a new one without all the bullshit? It's been nearly a decade since 5th Edition started.
Like I don't know, 35th Anniversary Edition as a remix of 20th Edition.

>>96937291
They're the only tribe I can't make myself like. Kungfu werewolf is a bridge too far.

Does anyone have that one Glasswalker/Children of Gaia art piece that a Art bro drew a while back, I remember it being somewhat related to H:tP and Matilda to be specific, I remember the Werewolf being a woman who wore a fancy white dress.

>>96938738
The only hope is that the recently reformed White Wolf is let go in order to exploit some sort of loophole that allows them to escape culpability for Bloodlines 2. If that happens and White Wolf inherits the financial responsibility for the failure of Bloodlines 2, then White Wolf might just liquidate and sell all of its IP to the highest bidder, or desperately seek out a buyer willing to take on that financial burden.

But I think it's far more likely that Paradox will cling to White Wolf and its IP because they're still worth something, even Bloodlines 2 was garbage.

>>96938738
did anyone actually expect it to make a profit at this point? i thought the entire point with the chinese room was to at least get some money back and paradox already admitted that they had given up on bloodlines as a video game series

I miss playing Great Value Dante

>>96938738
If this value includes what was spent on the Hardsuit Labs version of BL2, then it's actually fairly manageable for a company of Paradox' size. I was expecting the costs to be at least 100 million. So Paradox will likely hold on to WoD and White Wolf 2, but just as a passive side gig to collect a couple extra bucks from

>>96939292
One anon mentioned some time ago that PDX already heavily scaled back their ambitions for WoD since the big management shift a few years ago, so they probably just insisted on releasing BL2 for the sake of justifying the purchase of WW

>>96937069
I would want Malkavians or Tremere, but I'll be honest, it'd be the Brujah.

>>96939119
>Paradox will cling to White Wolf
Bruh White Wolf was gutted. It's literally just a label-swapped skinsuit that Paradox marketing parades around in like wannabe Ed Geins.

>>96939336
It's a skin suit that they stitched together that owns the IP, when they could have retained full ownership of the IP as Paradox. They didn't need to put it back together. It's just a case of figuring out why they did.

>>96938541
The older Hecata know that Naga Raja aren't part of the Clans of Death proper, but at the same time the Hecata isn't just a Clan with Bloodlines, it's a Sect. In v5 Chicago by Night there's an outcome from one of the stories where some of the Ventrue side with the Hecata against the Camarilla and join up as official members of the Sect.

>>96938738
It's always bizarre that you faggots act like WoD in general hadn't been dead for years before v5. We don't need another half-assed lazy edition like 20th was and we definitely don't need them to regress back to it as a "brand new" soft reboot when it's still right fucking there, available everywhere, with books and books of content.

>>96938738
>VG Insights
I'm not gonna defend the trashfire that is BL2, but VG insights has literally never been accurate. Just wait two months for the earnings report and stop speculating with the modern equivalent of water finders and entrails.

>>96939359
This. Same deal with CofD, it's dead, let it stay buried.

>>96937069
a few years ago i was wondering if a lasombra wanted to embrace me but my most likely embrace would probably be gangrel given that i pretty much nocturnal and the only thing most gangrel look out for is "outside at night and not afraid"

>>96939349
nagaraja are part of the clan in v5 after all they got their disciplines and weakness changed by the familiy reuinion

does it make sense? fuck no. is it canon (to v5)? yes

>>96939390
Their Disciplines only really traded Necromancy for Oblivion like everyone else. They're still Auspex/Dominate/Oblivion, and if you wanna get in the weeds about it their old Bane can be taken as a flaw.

>>96939400
that's optional and only with st permission like the rest of the hecata bloodlines so their main/most common discipline spreed is now Auspex, Fortitude, Oblivion

>>96938195
I think the best part about all this whinging over the Hecata is that the Giovanni and the Necro clans in general were so unpopular that they faced getting axed in every edition except Dark Ages materials. Literally no one paid any attention to, liked, or played them for decades until V5 unironically made them one of the most popular picks.

>>96939411
It's anecdotal, but I haven't seen a single ST ever refuse those options and the Nagaraja amalgams that were added later require that spread, so.

>>96939427
oh i also wouldn't but that's giving the current team a bit more credit than i feel they deserve especially given that they blacklisted the people working on cult of the blood gods and didn't reprint the alternative discipline spreeds in the players guide

>>96939119
If they no longer have big dreams for 5th edition, they don't need to fear CofD, they should allow new official books. I would like to see stuff like official ports of the 1e Mage Legacies to 2e, DaveB was planning a book about ephemeral liches, etc.

>>96937069
I've taken the official quiz a few times and have always gotten Nosferatu, which fits because I have often fantasized about being completely invisible and left to my own devices. I could also see Malkavian because I have moments of paranoia or Tremere because I like to research stuff.

>>96939447
problem is would people still come to paradox now that they have shown that they can and willing to just kill the gameline without even any statment? doesn't sound like good buisness for the people asking for permision to write in cofd

>>96938738
>Be a group of autists on a Malkavian Dream-Crafting forum
>Can immediately predict Bloodlines 2 would be mediocre garbage from day 1 because the writing skills just don't seem to be there any more.
>At least 63 million dollars wasted in the process

Now that that's over, can they go back to making a bunch of smaller games instead? I liked some of those. The big ones always end up half-baked for whatever reason.

>>96939474
A multi-splat wide WoD dating Sim would be nice

>>96939447
Nah, it's been several years of nothing official for CofD, let it stay dead. We don't need any half-assed revival books, we've got enough CofD books already.

>>96939414
They were an ST tool like all the rest of the independent clans should be. This never-ending sating of gluttonous "players" has done irrevocable harm to the games.

>>96939474
I want a WtA KoDP rip off. Managing a Sept and your ring of elders until the last battle comes.

Good set of cantrips for a Pooka businesswoman? I don't like Contract as an art and I don't use it in my games

>>96939582
No they weren't. The Giovanni were more fleshed out than the Tzim were in 1e.

>>96939660
The Tzimisce were an enemy clan not intended as a main clan for players to play.

>>96939688
OK, and?

>>96939693
You're just pointing out that one NPC clan was more detailed than another NPC clan.

>>96939704
No. I'm point out that one was introduced for play and the other wasn't, yet despite that one went on to be a mainstay Clan and the other was almost removed. Your original point was also just retarded and has no merit.

>>96939333
I'm going to say that it's likely it doesn't include the HSL version, as apparently that version was such a drain that scrapping and redoing from scratch was a preferable use of Paradox's time and money
>>96938738
As a sort of follow up to this, I suppose this explains why the game feels cheap, they definitely tried to develop the game as if it was still 2004 or so. 60 million does not cut it for anything over AA though I think a large part of the problems are contracting TCR and perhaps not a more prestigious studio. Rather bizarrely for Paradox I must say, as they wanted a bloodlines 2 in the first place

>>96939718
You're talking to two different anons. Your mistake has landed you in the rape pits.

>>96938818
You mean the character designs drawn by the artist or drawanon OCs

>>96939729
Feel free, it's all the action you'll ever get, and you'll still be a wrong retarded fag.

>>96939740
I just like to watch.

>>96938455
Beast :^)

>>96939729
>haha oh no I don't want to get raped
Hardly a correctional punishment

>>96939727
That makes sense, yes. 60 million seems really low for a game that went through multiple studios

>rather bizarrely for Paradox, as they wanted bloodlines 2 in the first place
I actually think this is why they went so cheap with the TCR version of the game. After the fallout from the HSL development, they realized the game was never going to turn a profit, but they wanted to release SOMETHING so that White Wolf's purchase wasn't completely pointless. Their big plans to turn WoD into a multimedia franchise are already in the gutters, so shitting out a mildly presentable BL2 serves as a way to bury that project for good

>>96939756
Your least favorite splat (and your least favorite faction of said splat) will be the ones doing the raping

>>96939499
>Vampire
Toreador. The basic bitch default love interest type, since Vampire is basically the default splat. Childhood friend who got Embraced and goes behind the Camarilla's back to continue seeing you because she never got to confess. Hasn't yet told you anything, but really wants to cry at your shoulder about the shitshow her (un)life has become.
>Mage
Hermetic. Stuck up rich girl who pretends she knows how to have fun but gets unreasonably huffy whenever she's the butt of the joke. Secretly thinks saying magic spells aloud is fucking stupid and has been slowly incorporating tech into her rituals instead. Is creating her own custom esoteric operating system. Would love to become a Virtual Adept instead, but her family would kill her for abandoning their "pure Hermetic legacy".
>Werewolf
Fianna Galliard drinking buddy. Subtly complains about her sept over drinks. Pack alpha constantly peer pressures her into telling stories that glorify his deed disproportionately, and keeps trying to flirt with her. Only reveals she's a Werewolf halfway through her route, when she knocks at your door, covered in blood, asking for help in finding a place to hide.
>Changeling
Slaugh, Seelie. Big titty goth stalker. Lives in the apartment below you and scurries up to her ceiling anytime you have a girl over, so she knows everything about your relationships. She's thus also the character who gives hints when you're stuck and don't know how to progress a girl's route. Pretends she's fine with living her romantic life vicariously to harvest Glamour or being part of a mythical "harem route", but really just wants you all to herself.
>Demon
Lammasu, Faustian. Your landlady and literal Succubus who's responsible for subtly inflaming the lusts of all the above-mentioned girls to turn you into her ideal man who's capable of handling any woman thrown his way. In truth, she's extremely lonely, longing for when she had companions she could trust.

>>96939727
i am not so sure about that. hardsuit lap wasn't that big and expensive a studio

paradox bought 33% of the studio in 2018 for only 2 million dollar and they did that so further fund bloodlines after the managment over there screwed up

so it could be that they just made this game with a shoestring budget

>>96939805
>Hunter
Zeal creed Judge. Not-an-actual-nun who's set up shop in the local church and not so subtly tries to get you to give out info on the other girls. Her route's ending is the easiest to get, but also a complete bait-and-switch where she just kills the other girls and disappears, only giving out a letter confessing to you if you make the correct choices throughout the route—yet even then leaving you behind to continue the fight on her own.
>Wraith
Only shows up during bad end meta segments to give you tips on not dying.
>Mummy
IDFK.

There's no way the Giovanni would go for joining a bunch of necromancer clans under one banner. They're not just vampire necromancers, theyre family. They're a mob. They dont like outsiders to the point they fuck each other. If you wanted to have a big group of Necromancers youd be better off making the Gio families their own distinctive bloodlines under Giovanni. The Harbingers & Nagaraja are very interesting but they are not gonna join the Giovanni gor any fucking reason other than murder

>>96939799
Nooo! Not those thinskinned retarded- ahhh~

>>96939499
>>96939805
NWoD:

>Vampire
Lancea et Sanctum Daeva. Sweet but a little stuck-up. Keeps inviting you to Mass and won't have premarital sex. You have the option of letting her feed on you, and each time she does she gets a little more creepy and possessive.
>Werewolf
Ithaeur Bone Shadow. The weird femcel option. Always muttering about how the spirits are pleased with you and gives you esoteric and often gross gifts.
>Mage
Free Council Mastigos tomboy. Wants to build you up with an intensity that borders on bullying. Believes in BDSM as self-discovery and self-improvement.
>Changeling
Darkling, East Court. Chinese-American goth rich girl. Very aloof and arrogant, but it's all a facade. Keeps accidentally revealing that she knows way too much about you.
>Hunter
Network Zero Record Keeper. Highly energetic geeky girl. Torn between genuine affection for you and her desire to use you to get footage of your supernatural acquaintances. If you let her get too close then choose another girl, she gets a bad end, like getting ghouled by the Vampire or abducted by True Fae.
>Geist
Hungry Necropolitan. Lives in a Boneyarded manor with some ghosts. She was your high school sweetheart who tragically died, but came back, unable to accept the absolute state of her love life. Her Geist doesn't like you - you must appease it or she'll lose Synergy by pursuing you.
>Deviant
Your flirty co-worker disappeared a year ago, and now she's back as an Invasive. Unstable and needy. She'll occasionally crash on your couch and let you tend to her wounds after raids on the conspiracy that Remade her.
Secret character: your Guardian angel. The God-Machine noticed you are anomalously attractive to the supernatural and wants you to stay alive so it can study you. If you manage to find her, you can get her to Fall and become a Tempter. She's a little cold, but slowly warms up to you as she gets used to her new state. Occasionally approaches you in wildly different Covers.

>>96939809
>literal shoestring budget for the follow up to the game you bought a whole IP for
Is Paradox retarded?

>>96939917
yes? where have you been the last few years?

>>96939799
>mummies or totally not good boys
Yeah, I doubt it

>>96939499
Hunter
>girl next door & outdoorsy /k/ommando, she wants you all to herself & will kill the other girls over time if not thwarted

Demon
>Succubus, you can fuck away her torment & save her. Holds multiple jobs & just sort of appears in different situations & scenarios out of the blue

Vampire.
>classic Ventrue or Toreador lady of the night who wants to suck your "blood", they'll borrow from Baldur's Gate Shadowheart. She is seeking Golconda.

Werewolf
>Wendigo Native American tomboy athlete

Mage
>Order of Hermes, classic witch wants your help organizing an event with a touch of magic to help the Sleepers Awaken

Wraith
>very cute sad goth girl, writes poetry & trying to help a box of abandoned kittens find homes & not die. If you dont make the right decisions her better visibly degrades until she's a spectrum

Mummy
>Hot Egyptian rich girl, she is brimming with life & is always full of energy. Wants to live lavishly.

Changeling
>Hippie girl free spirit trying to fend off banality, Sidhe. Needs help getting out of a contract to marry another guy, either a fairy lord or another changeling

>>96939805
>>96939881
Very cool anon. now do men

>>96939830
Mummy would be the teacher/boss route

>>96939919
I just would assume Paradox at least has some common sense, though I guess none of their games have ever had actual budget

>>96939958
It's because WoD in general and Bloodlines in particular is way out of their usual output. Paradox' bread and butter is map painter games where they milk the same autists over and over with DLC to make them profitable, and even most of the games they publish from third party studios are city/factory-builders (Cities Skylines, Surviving Mars, Prison Architect...) which catter to a fairly similar crowd. They have little to no idea what the typical WoD fan likes, which is why they trust the LARPers they put in charge of the IP nearly blindly when it comes to making stuff for WoD5 and also why they choose a studio which, up until then, has only made walking simulators with making an RPG wih actual combat

>>96939628
>business
Winter is coming...

>>96940259
All going according to plan

>>96939881
>tfw my cute nerdy girlfriend will only go on dates with me if we're both wearing bodycams and livestreaming
The lack of trust hurts

>>96939933
The same but gender swapped. We know you fags all want the same archetypes.

Well I made my gf take the V5 clan quiz. I got gangrel, she got ravnos. How long until we kill each other?

>>96940422
nah you two are now in a lovers to enemies to lovers vampire novel

>>96940422
Hobo & gypsy compliment each other

>>96940403
Archetypes that are hot on women are not always hot on men, anon. You don't eat ice cream with ketchup or french fries with chocolate syrup

>>96940457
As the Homestucks ould call it "Vacillating Madness."

Werehare warform.
Should Wererabbits have a weakness to gold or silver? There's lots of Rabbit on the Moon stuff, but I don't know if they should be a little bit of a mix up like with wereravens

>>96940480
Serious question, have you tried those combos out? They're not as bad as you'd like to imagine.

>>96940486
Hispo form

Ah yes, the dilemma of Werewolf games.
>Hey, can I please play a shapeshifter who transforms into literally any other fucking animal ever, literally fucking anything that isn't a wolf, in this Werewolf game?

>>96940480
Vampire would be Lasombra bad boy archetype. The one that everyone believes is friendly and nice but there's also that feeling of unease when you catch his gaze.
Demon would be a lamasu too. Ravener. Literal incubus that rapes you and a few others during sleep a few nights until you start investigating. Eventually you catch him via binding circles and leave him to be used as your stress relief toy. You know as revenge. Depending on if you talk with him, you can turn him faustian or fall with him. Heavy impregnation fetish this route

>>96940612
Your ST says yes. Now what.

>>96940480
Straight Fianna that you convince to fuck you while he's brown-out drunk, or Wendigo shit lib who gets you to lay reparations with your ass.

>>96940770
Black Fury Metis who wants to wear a dress...

How do you cope with the fact that you'll never live in a fantasy world?

>>96940812
drugs

>>96940403
I doubt it. Submissive twink archetypes are something else

>>96940480
Just going through anon's owod list:
>Vampire
Basic bitch default love interest. The setup is exactly the same, he's practically Romeo.
>Mage
Rich dude who's unhappy but finds an outlet with the MC.
>Werewolf
This is just a hipster dude who's getting harassed by his female boss.
>Changeling
Dark brooding guy who's a little too into you.
>Demon
Playboy who's your friend but is secretly lonely because he can't trust anyone except you.

Literally all of these are common romance novel archetypes. Werewolf would probably be the weakest, but still works.

Cyberpunk Fairytale: Changeling in The Neo-South
>>>/qst/6324793

>>96940812
I'm killing myself on the 29th.

>>96940770
I find the first one hot way too much to be healthy
>>96940812
I come up with characters and entire worlds that I never write down

>>96940480
Shadowlord elder landlord, mostly a decent guy. Bit odd though older folks give him shit. Rumors abound about him being a supposed rapist or rake with a taste for pretty young things. Through the route you discover your kinfolk and he fully switches track into being your sugar daddy. There's a fake out incest plot that the player can decide is real or not when your mom visits. Leading you to learn your daddy and mom had a thing twenty odd years ago.

>>96940831
I'll see you here on the 30th.

>>96939499
>>96939881
Mekhet guardian angel, you don't know what she is but you leave notes for each other. Romance unlocked after you manage to find out about vampires despite her attempts to somewhat comply with the Masquerade

>>96940851
Did that fucking cunt in the mirror give our angel away? She's always been jealous

>>96940812
I wait for the wine-heroin-porn pod to be a reality

>>96940812
Struggle with the fact I live in a pre-cyperpunk world instead.
Too late to enjoy the golden years of the post-war age, born too early for the singularity. Just in time for PAIN

>>96940838
I’m using this… I have no idea how just yet, but I’m using this

>>96940879
It will be a monthly subscription with micro-transactions, non-skippable advertisements, and the quality will rapidly diminish.

>>96940848
The banality of dates and schedules overwhelms my melancholic fae soul, causing me to slip into a forgetful fugue state. Yay ^-^

>>96940898
>Landlord/sugar daddy could have been stepdad
This feels a bit tropey, but also kind of weird

>>96940770
>>96940836
>Fianna
>Straight
He was asking for it
ideal woof is Red Talon turned into a not human hater for both

>>96939628
>Pooka businesswoman
I'm not a furry, but...

>>96940955
So wait, you get to be the dog and I.. what.. get to fuck the dog?

>>96940939
>nbr
Nay. Mom not being kinfolk in dead end incest is why they broke up.

>>96940917
But dates are super glamourous, just stuff them with spiced and honeyed nuts

>>96940969
I suppose I meant for both genders but I like your interpretation
>>96940975
So the appeal is the semi-not incest? Isn't that more of a silver fangs thing

>>96940955
Sitting on a red talon's face while your dog fucks them isn't everyone kink.

>>96940992
The appeal is age play because the shadowlord is older than you. Come on.

I think I finally figured it out. Every splat is just someone's fetish.

>>96940812
By living in the real world like every other normal person

>>96940939
I mean, that's the kind of weird I throughly enjoy
>>96941009
It took you this long to figure out, anon?

>>96941033
>>96941001
>Age play for the splat that has an average to below average lifespan because of retardbrain
>Not the immortal vampires
>Not mummies
Idk

>>96940969
Is it an issue if he has the mental capabilities of a human (which he avoided using because he thought humans were evil until he met you)?

>>96940996
>Implying the Red Talon isn't the dog
Have to think bigger than that

>>96941056
>splats that on average go for a standard adult age look
Anon...

Did someone say ageplay?

>>96941009
>Reality Bending (mage)
>Furry (werewolf)
>Mind control (vampire)
>BDP GF (Wraith)
>Resurrection (Mummy)
>Possession (Demon)
>I'm not saying the one for Changeling
Oh god, he's right.

>>96941110
>Resurrection kink
What does this look like? Guro then back to fucking?

>>96941110
>not body mod for Wraith
Small time anon. Utterly small time

>>96941102
Is it odd if I don't find it as hot when the older partner is a woman

>>96941151
Eh, every splat has shapeshifting/transformation somewhere in there.

>>96941110
You can do all those kinks and more with Mage. It's even how the Cult of Ecstasy does magic

>>96941078
I just figure you can do age play better with Hunters or Vamps if that's really your kink

>>96937639
Cope.

>>96941157
older women don't have the same vibe with the age play I agree

>>96941190
They could but it's not easy

>>96941063
Listen if they want to get belly rubs then they need to be good. If they can't be good then I'll know it isn't safe

>>96941164
Ah but the Wraith can become those japanese milk machines, a Tzimisce can only pretend

>>96941181
Hunters have even less longevity than woofs. Vampire ageplay hits too close to real life with "40 year old acts exactly like a 17 year old".

>>96941355
Good point I suppose. Just figured the 250 yo loli might actually act her age

>>96941009
>Samedi

>>96938589
>Promethean's kinda hard unless the disquiet is slowed.
Thank god for phones and videochat.

>>96941475
One more thing Leviathan stole from other splats.

>>96940829
Thanks for sharing but I really don't have anything to add.

>>96940612
To be fair they did everything and then some with the concept. That and the other furry fodder creatures are too forgettable to say anything about.

>>96939738
Yes but I remember it being posted in mention of H:tp/Maltilda.

>>96941801
Oh yeah, the artist worked on some more characters that might be in future audio logs. Some of who looked suspiciously quite werewolf-y like a black college professor looking Glass Walker type iirc. We'll see though I don't expect those characters until early next year at the rate it takes them to animate. Although episodes aren't going to be 40 minutes anymore allegedly

I think V5 dice are really cool and way more interesting than simple d10s, even if V5's diceroll system isn't very good (fuck rouse checks desu)
but how would you make them work in V20 if you had to? and how would you incorporate the danger dice? (I don't want to call them hunger dice because that implies forcibly including hunger as a mechanic)

>>96941934
actually thinking on it, they don't even have to be "danger" dice, can just be any special dice that add something cool, could even be a positive effect

>>96940486
Be weird, use jade as their weakness for Tu Yu connection.

>>96941934
Damn, that's fucking CRAZY, paradox nigger shill
Maybe you can link DIRECTLY to where I can buy so that it 100% verified goes to shareholders

>>96941934
I would just commission a dice maker to make cool but universally functioning dice.
You could have clan/tribe/tradition icons too for more flavor.

Why is the Eldest called the eldest?

>>96942439
acording to the tzimisce teacher in the players guide to the high clans his clan (and presumably he himself) consider who he was during life to be so unimportant that he doesn't need a human name

>>96942439
Oldest of their line. Names are so terribly human.

>>96937620
I'll go sunbathing the following morning

>>96942432
You mean standard D10s, which work just fine (And are arguably easier to read) in WoD5?

>>96941934
You can commission a dice maker to make normal d10, but replace 1 with the skull, 6 with ankh and 10 with angh with stars from v5 dice.
On that note, is there a place that still sells v20 anniversary dice?

>>96937620
i really did not like this guy and then he just did not matter at all in my playthough he had like 2 scenes where he wasn't just being the prince's little side kick or a fabian flashback

>>96938051
>that picture

>>96942701
they probably don't like you for being vapid enough to make this shittok

>>96942672
His loyal ghoul saved you.
Isn't that amazing? Y/Y

>>96942691
>(And are arguably easier to read)
How are numbers easier to read than symbols? If all you do is count successes, what do you need to know exact numbers for? Why should it matter to you if it's a 2 or a 3?

>>96939805
>>96939830
Excuse me, did you seriously just steal my posts from months ago for this?
>>95286752
>>95286842
Fucking bold. I'll consider it flattery. This time.
Didn't make the CofD one, so no comment there.
In hindsight, I'd change the tradition the Mage actually wants to be to Etherite, and keep the Vampire's clan more ambiguous.
Got an idea for a Mummy later on: Necromancer DLC extra character with her own story that alternatively branches off into a proper route for the wraith girl.

HtP Chapter 5 finally clawed it's way to the views of the previous episode.

>>96942694
>On that note, is there a place that still sells v20 anniversary dice?
Was that even a thing?

>>96942851
And?

>>96942900
https://www.dragonstrove.com/products/vampire-the-masquerade-20th-anniversary-dice-set?variant=44907788304666
ngl, looks ugly.

>>96942696
He ended up taking over my city despite my best efforts in my playthrough, all because I didn't suck him off every scene he was in.

>>96942851
>Release after a year long delay
>Sequel without a hook
Makes sense it took so long

>>96942710
That's actually the op of the video, you tell her. Fucking get her, stupid cunt make her learn.

>>96942759
Most actual games set successes at 6-9, not just 6+.

>>96942759
Difficulty, primarily. Can't just go "oh we succeed on a 6" when a player is making it hard on himself. A simple binary success system doesn't really capture nuance and is part of the reason DnD 5E is kind of mediocre

>>96942960
he was a major player like that? again i never even interacted with the guy and i was 100% camarilla ride or die

>>96942960
He's basically the only left in the Camarilla after Lou's purges and V5 heavily pushes the notion that other clans can be princes easier now that all the Elders are getting munched on

>>96942996
He's effectively a Harpy+Herald combo

>>96943002
and primogen. that court is really understaffed

>>96943040
It's understaffed as hell because Lou is fucking retarded and so is TCR and Paradox. V5 be like oh we must only have 1 vampire per 100k citizens which is fucking retarded compared to the vampire density you see in Bloodlines 1 . Seattle could easily have like 200 Vamps or something but TCR insists it needs a billion thinbloods and like 8 normal vampires

>>96943085
>flit across three empty baronies and one non-cammie court
>dense
As right as it is to dunk on Paradox don't misremember 1. Downtown was the biggest concentration

>>96943110
>Go into a single street the size of a city block
>Santa Monica has 3 Vampires, is next to a Sabbat Gang Pack, has 4 thinbloods, two ghouls
>Downtown is more sizeable sure but it's still got like 8 vampires
>Hollywood is like a 300 foot street and there's 3 vampires in it, a gargoyle, leads to the Nos Warrens
>This isn't including China Town's situation, Giovanni Mansion, etc
It's not extremely dense but the map implies there's quite a couple of off screen vampires considering how small the hubs are

>>96943124
>>96943110
Essentially as a TLDR I'm trying to say here that when you compare 2 to the hubs in 1 it's massive but you basically only meet like 10ish vampires and a bunch of thinbloods and ghouls. Who the hell is supplying all this blood and recruiting? Doesn't matter either way but it's somewhat incoherent as a setting

>>96942759
Exploding 9s

>>96943124
>a single street the size of a city block
i always just took that as artistic license and technical limitations

>>96943124
not so much implied and shown given that act 3 features no name vampires that showed up in the bloodhunt and several no name ventrue in the tower

we also see the primogen in one scene but don't ever interact with any of them but strauss and strauss also has other apprentices that we don't get to see because of his hall way fuckery (by the way is that something you can replicate with thaum?) so like half to 2/3 of the kindred in bloodlines 1 are just guys who's name we never learn and that's not even counting the sabbat at all

>>96943147
Well, that's true but Seattle feels positively empty by comparison

>>96942997
How dreadful.

>>96943152
>All the random Gangrel Sabbat attacking you
Yeah it's basically Vampire fodder

>>96943160
>Kill Lou
>Ryong dies via the story
>Have no interest in being the prince yourself
>Tremere granny doesn't want it
Gaysferatu is quite literally the only guys left

>>96943131
in 2? I know people and shitposters don't like to read notes but it's there that Cali anarchs are feeding troops and gear to seattle. They were going to war when the game plot sent it sideways. The anarchs are very much the sabbat of 2.
>>96943176
>Couldn't sweet talk the Gilf into it
Come on, you could get her to do it. The other burjah's too up his own ass to lead.

>>96943176
well the bar ventrue is also camarilla but he also does not want it at all which makes me wonder in theory what would happen if you have a entire court that identifies as camarilla and they dominate the city to the point where it is a camarilla city but nobody wants to be prince because recently they keep dying like flies? is that something a justicar or their archons would come to look at?

>>96943183
Well damn, wasn't aware of that. It still just seems a bit lacking to have such a small cast of vampires for such a big map compared to 1. That's just my opinion though

>>96943200
Probably would be forced to elect a prince, even a token one while they do the democracy shit. As of V5 though the Camarilla is pretty lawless especially in America. I'm sure no one would care

>>96943200
Archon would probably blow through and then just appoint someone prince. It is so beneath them, they'd probably question the primogen and then maybe beat Fletcher's head in for not having a decent excuse for being a coattail rider.

>>96943176
her and the speakeasy ventrue are also potential endings

You know what? VtM needs a game thats a big sandbox GTA type game. Put inescapable werewolves & rokea at the borders. Let you chose between Cam/Sabbat/Anarchs. Cam missions are mostly just endless bullshit assigned to you by your Sire>Primogen>Prince. Sabbat missions are much looser. Its mostly just a cluster fuck of side quests for whoever you can find until you get important enough to do the endgame quests for the Bishop. Anarchs have their own small quest line but you're open to do lesser Cam & Sabbat quests too. Give each faction territory that can change hands, sprinkle in some side content & itd probably be really fun.

>>96943218
>>96943222
oh i wasn't thinking seattle or v5 with that question . Just general setting question about what the camarilla would do to a princless city where all other traditions are kept

>>96943206
Oh it is but it's on par with Santa monica or Hollywood if you consider the warrens to be part of it. My biggest population complaint is that the enemy anarchs should've been thin-bloods with the mini-bosses being 14th or 13th gen. We're fighting through the war fodder, no vampire has the vitae supply to make all those ghouls.

>>96943176
No you misunderstand.

>the notion that other clans can be princes easier now that all the Elders are getting munched on

Lesser Clans were made to serve the Higher Clans. Not the other way around

>>96943242
Probably put the sheriff as the prince. They might look at it a little strangely but if it's running okay then there really isn't a problem

>>96943235
Had no idea, seems hard to do. Also
>speakeasy in 2025

>>96943247
Yeah that's another complaint I have in particular. They have to make them all ghouls n shieet because we're a badass Elder but it still feels kind of lacking

>>96943256
Yeah but thanks to Gehenna and the Beckoning that stuff really went out the window. There's a Gangrel prince in Night Road and apparently Paradox/White Wolf has a lore division that makes changes so that the setting is consistent

>>96943256
Grandad, you got red on you. Also the convention was centuries ago, you got rid of that distinction.

>>96943176
>>96943200
The Inner Council would have an ambitious Kindred from somewhere else comes & be Prince. Something like this would both lessen tension somewhere the potential new prince is butting heads against the entrenched powers that be, give the potential new prince to prove himself, & put a closer eye on whatever is fucking up a city that lost a prince. The potential Prince is also not likely to say no since he would loose face for turning down such a reward. The only other alternative is having some hunchback rat wear a crown & to advertise just how weak the Cam is in the area that such a hideous freak gets to play court.

>>96943176
IAO ending is canon

>>96943284
>spoiler
to be fair in the next game of the same company has a archon unprompted just talk shit about the guy and how he dares to be prince

>>96943544
Was that Parliament? I know the Camarilla is still pretty elitist in the lore though but I wouldn't be surprised if they just don't have the numbers
somewhat excusable in Seattle though since apparently Lou has been fucking over the Camarilla for 100 years

>>96943735
>Was that Parliament?
yes, but it's not a big scene pretty much just a throw away line cameo

>>96941818
Do you have some of their art on hand or any of their socials at least?

>>96943814
Not really sorry, it was in the old /co/ htp threads about 2 weeks back but I'm sure someone knows the artist. I think you can just check Busa's YouTube for her bluesky link

>>96943284
Boston had a low clan prince for 200 years who got "Beckoned away" and replaced with a Ventrue for Swansong.

Am I missing something or is Mist Form (Protean) just better than Tenebrous avatar (Obtenebration)?

Stop pretending to like Beast just to be contrary

>>96944100
Can I like parts of Beast?

>>96944074
Personally I don't mind. except for a Nos as they're more mob characters

>>96944100
Why wont Beast players just admit that their game is retarded?

>>96944100
>>96944140
Beast fans aren't real. go back to bed.

>>96944100
>>96944131
While what we got was definitely not, I think a game with the same basic concept as Beast done in isolation (explicitly not part of CofD) could be good, maybe even great.

>>96944100
Fuck you man, Player's Guide wasn't bad.

I've never played a single game of WoD but I still shitpost here.

>>96944096
Meh, kif-kif

>>96937069
Ventrue or Gangrel.

>Ventrue
I'm foreveraGM/ST.
All I do is organize and create structure for people to do shit. Hell I'd become prince despite my wishes, only because I'm the only one willing to actually do something.

>Gangrel
Leadership and dealing with retards drains you. Let me have my alone time and meld into the earth.

>>96944226
You say that as if it makes you unique, or even a rarity. That's 3/4 of posters in this general. Plus, none of you even read books.

>>96944286
Hey, I do read the books

>>96944226
These generals are:
>30% Bloodlines secondaries.
>30% Hunter the Parenting secondaries.
>10% secondaries who didn't discover the setting through either of the prior vectors.
>10% heavily favour and play the World of Darkness.
>10% heavily favour and play the Chronicles of Darkness.
>10% evenly divided between WoD and CofD.

>>96944100
>>96944189
So what was wrong with Beast? Terrible mechanics or it being a forced crossover splat?

So how is this merit supposed to work?

>>96939414
>Literally no one paid any attention to, liked, or played them for decades until V5 unironically made them one of the most popular picks.
The core issue has always been that they were Independent. Fitting an Independent into your standard game's coterie, which is gonna be Camarilla, is very difficult.

>>96944469
>buy merit
>choose one ability
>that ability now costs [current ranting] xp for next level, instead of [current ranting x2] xp

>>96944461
Completely terrible concept lead by a sexual abuser that basically made people like him into the player splat, combined with a chaotic mess of development mismanagement, then a fast attempt at rewriting after he was fired that didn't really fix any of the game's many problems.

>>96944461
Extremely flawed themes and premise which are built on the perspective of the child predator who wrote it all.
>I possess the soul of a monster and a supernatural hunger that can be sated by victimising people in ways that resonate with my inner beast, but there are all of these damn do-gooders who are trying to stop me! Don't they see that I am trying to make my victims better people with all of the suffering that I put them through?! I'm teaching them important lessons with the torment that I inflict, these bigoted white knights don't understand the true value of the abuse and suffering that I cause!
It's extremely self-righteous and fixated on the narrative about how the Beasts are the good guys who are just teaching people lessons, even though they're supernaturally driven to terrorise their victims in various ways depending on their Hunger. On its own, it would just be weird, but when the writer ended up behind bars for being a child molester, it became clear just how extremely fucked up the whole thing was. The entire book basically just reads like pedophile apologia.

>>96944461
Mechanically, despite being a forced crossover splat the crossover mechanics were just as garbage as they always are.
Fluff wise they took a concept that really begged for and could have worked as an unapologetic play the villains game and desperately tried to justify the player characters' actions until it went just as the other posters mentioned.

Is it too fishy to theme a Malkavian prince around madman theory and mutually assured destruction?

>>96937980 >>96937930 >>96937924
https://www.scribd.com/document/211083667/Wraith-the-Oblivion-2nd-Edition-WW6600
https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Wraith:_The_Oblivion_Second_Edition

High upon a ledge above, a moon-pale woman weeps. Knowing when to bow out, your Reaper makes his exit.

>>96944704
No, Malkavians frequently play up their clan's reputation to make their enemies think they are more unpredictable and a threat than they actually are.

>>96944555
It's such a shit merit its no even funny.

>>96941011
“The only value of this world lay in its power - at certain times - to suggest another world.”
― Thomas Ligotti, Songs of a Dead Dreamer

>>96941110
>>I'm not saying the one for Changeling
There are at least three! Which one?

>>96944784
Could be useful if your ST let's you choose more than one. Personally I think it should let you choose a theme of abilities you learn fast
>>96944807
I feel as if I skip over all the chapter quotes in the cyoa games, but I recognize this guy

>>96944589
>ended up behind bars
I fucking wish. His brother's a cop, he got away scot free.

>>96944820
BPD seems to be a theme in all the games though.
Is Changeling the manic pixie girl with BPD and otherkin stuff going on?

Someone needs to make a World of Darkness Grand Theft Auto mod.

>>96944879
>Grand Theft Auto mod
>Shows pic of The Sims
What did anon mean by this?

>>96944783
What if it's actual nuclear ambiguity and part of the rumor is that there's a recovered device on a weekly timer hidden in the city? Where's the line that this gets cartoonish?

>>96944906
>on a weekly timer
right here

>>96944906
Don't make it an actual nuclear device. This is Vampire, make it some supernatural bullshit.

>>96944916
Well keep him out of torpor.

>>96944575
>>96944589
>>96944639
Man that's really fucking disappointing.

>>96944589
>Don't they see that I am trying to make my victims better people with all of the suffering that I put them through?!
Wasn't that the premise of Saw?

>>96944968
The difference is that beasts don't just want to make people better through suffering, they just feed off of the suffering itself. The lessons that are being taught are little more than an excuse to justify the abuse.

>>96944879
Closest thing he had at hand.

>>96943176
There's the anarchs who basically get it by default if you do the sensible thing and send Max to the anarchs. Like if Max is with the anarchs and you didn't send the hunters after the amarchs then they take over the city by default.
>>96943176
Every one of the clan reps including tremere lady can be princes if they like you enough. Which basically just rules out whichever clan you yourself are.
It is apparently a bitch to get that ending though.

>>96944981
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwZET_O2m5s

>>96944469
Its a trap. It saves a little bit of xp on something, but you're better off just maxing it at character gen

>>96944998
Is there an option for you to become Prince cause otherwise thats super fucking gay

>>96945092
Yep. You just have to say you want to be Prince, get rid of the anarchs and not have a great relationship with Lou.

>>96945136
Why is this faggot so influential?

>>96945164
Branches off you taking it.

still, not a huge fan of essentially a literal who dude who might as well be the only Nossie in the city getting to be prince. I understand that TCR or Paradox wanted to have RPG-tier ending variations but there's only 3 real endings

>>96944776
Is there a path he can take?

>>96945164
It's never really explained how the fuck Tolly is so influential or how he can instantly beat you (He's the one who stakes you if your masquerade meter runs out). All they say is he knows the secrets.

>>96945208
Tolly is basically prince if there is no alternative. Your relationship with Lou wasn't great, you killed the anarchs and you didn't want to be prince.

>>96945209
Indeed!
Into the side of a cliff, a crooked, rough-hewn stairway winds around to the top of the ledge. There's no railing, so be careful. You may be dead, but you can still suffer...

>>96945210
>how's an unofficial secret keeper influential?
How is the harpy? I think there might be one line at the beginning about how he's the herald if it's not just
>he's part of the court.

>>96945250
I guess he's gonna climb, on all fours if need be
can't have shame if there's nobody around

>>96944226
Wow, you're literally like everyone else here

>>96945309
You negroes are nogames too? Thankfully that's changing soon for me though I'm double no games because I have to ST

>>96944838
IF it made a category of abilities less expensive it would be worth the points. As is, it makes more sense to take Aptitude.

>>96945218
You can say that you'll be prince in some convos, but if you don't trigger telling that to the Nos you'll get the ending where he becomes prince.

>>96945293
Faint moans and unintelligible whispers drift upon the stillness of the Plutonian air as you make your ascent. Despite the jaunty angle of the steps, you have arrived unharmed.
Ahead, there she is.

>>96945364
Anything of note up there? Outside of the weeping mess I mean

>>96945002
Because you posted this I've been on a Clarissa bender and have been reading these for over an hour.

>>96945327
What splat?

>>96945404
Do you think she would be a changeling?

are memes banal
i feel like they are, they just come and go, complete trends which 99.9% of the population is never even sure where they originate from, just a trend

>>96945429
to a T

>>96945375
It is just you two and the darkness, unless you count the weight of ages pressing down upon your souls...

>>96945437
To me, "meme culture" feels much like a tabloid: pointless, flash-in-the-pan, but eye-catching.

>>96944226
Try reading all the lore without ever planning on playing the games

>>96945415
Vampire, 20th. Setting it in New York 2006

>>96945443
Then he goes up to her and try to draw her attention. If she stops crying, he opens with a real witty line like "You come here often?"

>>96945437
>>96945452
>Two autumn people arguing that short, chaotic flashes of creativity should be classified as banal
Autumnoids are even ruining the term banal, Can't make this shit up.

>>96945480
“Most people are other people. Their thoughts are someone else's opinions, their lives a mimicry, their passions a quotation.”
― Oscar Wilde, De Profundis

>>96945437
Memes are a Pentex plot. Regurgitated quipy idea forms, basically emblematic/heiroglyphic subversion of platonic ideals. They can show you a picture & know you'll generate a specific immediate thought. You see a cartoon dog in a burning house & think "this is fine". They've just programmed you. Its fucking cancer dude

>>96945473
"Only when the pain is too much."
She steps closer to the edge, then peers longingly below.

>>96945498
now explain 6 7 in a way that sounds ominous and bleak

>>96945480
Fuck you you retarded god damn ape. Memes are the fucking death of thought. Its not a flash of creativity. Its a prepackaged thought they feed you every second of every day, just eat it & keep scrolling, keep scrol,ling drip drip drip that serotonin. Are they really funny? Are you truly enjoying it? Everyone a little more & you'll swear youre liking it. Keep scrolling. Keep eating the toxic waste of comedy as everything become references to references until nothing matters but the feeling of having an inside joke with a thousand other people that are just as rotten inside.

Don't fucking call people "Autumn People" when all you fucking have are prepackaged snide judgements of honest people. How about you show an ounce of proper creativity

I hurt myself today
To see if I still feel
I focus on the pain
The only thing that's real
The needle tears a hole
The old familiar sting
Try to kill it all away
But I remember everything
What have I become?
My sweetest friend
Everyone I know goes away
In the end
And you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you hurt
I wear this crown of thorns
Upon my liar's chair
Full of broken thoughts
I cannot repair
Beneath the stains of time
The feelings disappear
You are someone else
I'm still right here
What have I become?
My sweetest friend
Everyone I know goes away
In the end
And you could have it all
My empire of dirt
I will let you down
I will make you hurt
If I could start again
A million miles away
I would keep myself
I would find a way

>>96945498
They sum up the triat perfectly, it's people that corrupt them. Pentex would be for pushing the death of memes, Mom wants them to last for ever by beating the horse until its dust and wyld makes them cancerous.

>>96945506
He walks next to her and looks down
How's it going down there?

>>96945532
Post a proper poem orbsong you make on the spot. Like I did, its not hard when you arent staring winter in the face

Banal winter tears
Hark the anon posts drivel
Trolling seeking (You)s

>>96945530
>Autumnoid pissed he got called out.
Wow, truth hurts don't it?

>>96945541
No because its just references to references. There's no creative spark. Early memes & shitnlike race faces, were fine. They were interactive & fresh. Current internet is what happens when the wyvr shoves shit down the wyrms throat only to grab his excrement & shove it in again

Look I don't know about this Changeling shit, but seasons are objectively ranked:
Winter > Autumn = Spring >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Summer

>>96945549
A long road of thorns
Blood drips from my flesh and soul
Please, don't close the gates.

>>96945498
This is Silver Fang propaganda, outdated boomers can't make memes

>>96945513
It is the epitome of mindless parroting of ideas, an inside joke with no punchline. It can't even claim to be a parody of humor, there is no conscious thought or purpose behind it. Just as the Tower of Babel fell as language fractured, so too will our society fall as language becomes hollow.
I think people who genuinely get upset at this stuff are dumb, kids will do stupid frivolous shit and then grow older, as they always have

>>96945532
Every time I hear this song, I imagine an old vampire about to embrace some random fucker.

>If I could start again
A million miles away
I would keep myself
I would find a way
And then run away. Only to start the circle again.

>>96945532
So are you reading these and putting lyrics to them as you finish?

>>96945567
6 7 is now part of the lingo though

>>96945581
Lingo that communicates no ideas. Language is meant to convey emotions and/or concepts, it does neither.

>>96945559
Yeah, the release of creative work to the public and spread newer or weirder ideas is definitely the most banal thing a person can do. It's definitely not that you've become so bitter and jaded that exposure to childlike wonder causes you to recoil like a vampire struck by sunlight.
No.
It's definitely the children that are wrong.

>>96945581
Seven ate nine.

>>96945554
Post something authentic.

I flower in spring
I can actually sing
What wit do you bring?
So sad grey thing?

You think that youre colorful
Your just throwin' gutter balls
My rhythm is purposeful
While all your posts are dull

Now to turn it up to eleven
Ill rhyme with six seven
Youre gettin butthurt, and your cheeks are redden
My soul is fire, Your soul is leaden

>>96945548
She jumps. She looks so serene, tears trailing upward. The fall lasts six seconds, but you could swear that it was a snapshot of eternity.

>>96945567
i don't exactly get upset at memes anymore
maybe i used to in the past but now i see a funny trend appear, like skibidi toilet, and then it blows up and everyone talks about skibidi toilet and now they're talking about 6 7 for some reason

to me in my eyes even if it may have any funny or soulful idea at the core, it quickly dies if it becomes a meme

>>96945598
The whole court's come undone with this one.

>>96945600
Dumbfounded, he looks until the end.
Is the finale gory?

>>96945586
It means so-so apparently, like an average state

>>96945620
I haven't seen a single person use it in that context, but then again I don't really keep up with socials

>>96945598
Your lines are fake, hollow, drivel
using rhyming, rhythmic, templates,
Hiding empty, silent, stasis
Freedom is lost to your vision

>>96945620
Sounds like a backloaded definition but whatever. Figures normies would eventually get and weirdly shorten x/10

>>96945606
I get that but some oldies are still quite good. They're just rare now because they're actually used in context

>>96945620
No. The meaning is that it has no meaning and that's the meaning, it's meant to identify the "in"-crowd. It's like if you go to an event and see some edgy guy wearing a woof shirt while you're wearing a changling shirt. So you both slap each other on the ass. That's what 6 7 is.

>>96945598
Anon, you're using rhyme to cover up the fact you got the syllable counts wrong.

They sit in front of their TVs
Saying, “Hey! This is fun!”
And they laugh at the artist
Saying, “He doesn't know how to have fun.”

The best things in life are truly free
Singing birds and laughing bees
“You've got me wrong”, says he
“The sun don't shine in your TV”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_RbSAwMa3U

>>96945598
>>96945549
Anons pissed off a real fae

>>96945616
She is but a darkened smear upon the cavern floor. She now looks as dead as she feels.
Such is life... or rather, death.

>>96945649
Nah, just a califag who never "made it". The talentless scramble of words barely held together with rhyme is a clear sign.
A true fae would actually be good at poetry.

>>96945659
He wonders if she will stand up again like he thought the dead would do
Is "Not dying again (fear)" a possible passion? Does he remember how he died?

>>96945683
>Does he remember how he died?
You remember feeling faint and cold, held by waxen hands just as lifeless and cold.

[Now, I must part. Hopefully, this will give me practice for running a game at a real tabletop.]

>>96945634
>furry and otherkin similarity
Weird fetish

>>96945668
He doesn't have the right posting pattern to be Californian. Plus he referred to ohioans as "buckeyes" you'd have to live in the midwest to know that

>>96945638
My words dance to the music in my head, its a shame you cant hear it

Somewhere the bombing all has stopped
And people begin to sit and talk
And somewhere insomniatic stockbrokers can rest their bloodshot eyes
Cause there's nothing left to buy or sell
Or kill or die for anymore
We're living inside eternal moments that we've searched for all our lives
There's nobody living by the clock
And every door is left unlocked
Cause property died all alone and capitalism lost its home
There's plenty of fresh air here in town
And plants are growing on the cars
And all of the streets are used for dancing
And at night you see all the stars

We're searching for something that was lost
And centuries all have covered up
We're flailing to find the smallest fragments of our liberated lives
And every tiny piece we find
We pick up and glue together
Collectively working for our utopian futures to collide
In snuggly beds and midnight talks
In wandering bike rides and wayward walks
Making up all of our own music, art, myth, food and news
It's happening everywhere we go
Collective bookstores and basement shows
Sharing a song that we all know or making up new ones as we go

I'm a dream, this is real
I'm a dream, you are here
I'm a dream, you are me
I'm a dream, we are free

Now can't you feel the ice caps grow?
Now can't you hear the forests laugh
At piles of nicely packaged toothpicks all in processed warehouse rows
Cause the only processing we do now
Is with one another in our homes
With people we'll fight, fuck, laugh and cry with
Until the day we die
Here where we share all that we've won
Here where we grieve for what is lost
Here where the children grow with names they chose and genders all their own
Here where we celebrate each other
Here where you've never had a boss
Here where we sing like restless kids with half-chewed food inside our mouths

Here in the place outside the box
There are no more borders left to cross
From each according to ability and to each based on need
Here in the place where dreams aren't dead
Here in the space between our heads

>>96945698
Good luck ST

>>96944226
I only ST'd games and never played them as a player

>>96945773
I want to play Wraith or Mage but finding someone willing to do it in my area is impossible and I don't want to gamble on the online. I'd do VtM online though as the degeneracy is probably just an element of the game

Large cities may be Weaver oriented, but anyone who's spent an hour in a NYC subway knows that there's plenty of Wyld there too.

>>96945778
homeless man piss and shit?

>>96945778
>>96945782
The eldest seeping upward

I'm not a conspiracy theorist but I read blogs by scientists
And I believe they know more than we are being told
By the mainstream media sources, want the truth to hold its horses
So there isn't mass hysteria as the sea floor erodes

And those in and on the ocean all say, "Hey, what's this commotion?"
And try to get away, they are moving in slow motion
'Cause their bodies are so heavy from a substance thick and deadly
They say, "I don't want to die, it's all your fault, I wasn't ready"

And I'm sorry and I'm scared and sad and mad and unprepared
To see the stuff that's in the sea evaporate into the air
Where it will gather and form clouds that travel north upon the wind
Drop its cool refreshing poison raindrops on our crops and children

And maybe it's the end, I always thought the end of man would be
Exactly what we need for the earth to stand a chance
And I always thought that I'd be fine if this happened in my lifetime
Now that I'm a mother, it is really terrifying

But I've always identified with the turtle's soft insides
Because there are times when I really need to hide
But even the strongest, toughest, thickest shell is not designed
To survive, to survive, to survive something of this magnitude
Because water is fluid and oil is crude

And it billows way down deep and it sticks to grains of sand
And it floats up on the surface where the birds all try to land
And it's ruining the marshes, ecosystems are destroyed
And the people all along the gulf coast are now unemployed

>>96945761
https://youtu.be/cPhklT21aiU

>>96945791
>>96945791
While the men who cut the corners still scream, "Drill, drill, drill"
From their yachts far away and their mansions on the hill
And they turn away the cameras and scream, "Kill, kill, kill"
As they burn endangered sea turtles alive

They're burning turtles alive

And the seas are all connected and we are all connected
And you're living in denial if you think you won't be affected
You can't hide behind your flag because water knows no border
It'll creep in every crevice, it'll seep in every pore

They lie about the damage, the solutions are illusions
There's no cover-up big enough to hide this huge a contusion
On the face of our mother, yeah, that's right, Mother Earth
Is the cost of every living thing what your product is worth?
We are all afflicted with an underground addiction
Will our desire for convenience be the cause of our extinction?
The industry's the master and we are all the slaves
And we're driving, driving, driving to our graves, graves, graves

>>96945801
The industry's the master, we are all the slaves
And we're driving, driving, driving to our graves, graves, graves
Graves, graves, graves, graves, graves, graves

So we must teach our kids to love themselves
And let them live their lives
What will they be if they grow up? Whatever they like
It's crucial to raise children who won't do what they're told
Who will fight for what's right and who can't be bought or sold

I want nothing of this business, I'm staying underground
I'm gonna ride the railroad and let my guard down
We can forage and ride bikes, jump in lakes, go on hikes
We can sing and sing for hours and click 'like', 'like', 'like'

When somebody posts something good we share and spread the truth
It's time to define what success means to you
I hope my kid will never be another cog in their machine
Trapped inside a box trying to remember her dreams

They'll sell us all out for their greed, greed, greed
As we cry for the earth while she bleeds, bleeds, bleeds
Bleeds, bleeds, bleeds, bleeds, bleeds, bleeds

So hold onto to your loved ones, hold on for dear life
Try to walk like thunder leaving footprints that are light
Hold onto to your loved ones, hold on for dear life
Try to walk like thunder leaving footprints that are light

>>96945532
I think it's funny that most of the Autumn People statted out in this book only became the way they did because some evil Changeling abused them at some point.

>>96945782
>>96945778
So this is where the fabled Bone Gnawer GFs are for the taking

Anons I need help. I'm trying to flesh out Lilith lore for something cross splat and I'm kinda stuck on three of 'em.
>CtD
This at least makes reference to her with the Lilin and how some of them refer to vampires. Easy enough to branch it to a creator figure that had dealings with fae.
>WtO
Not mention of any connection unless one treated Lady of Fate being Eve as serious. Even then she has no real connection and I'm grasping at straws that don't involve Grandmother or the labyrinth connecting somewhere.
>WtA
Thinnest connection, less than the association with Eve, and that's if I went with Gaia=Ziana. I suppose a link could be made if I used one of Ennoia's endgame things and Ennoia being her daughter.
My initial idea was something basic like Lilith's just perceived as a three-faced being or a gestalt of the triat that's rarely realized because experienced balance and serenity is needed.

Am I just doing too much to cover bases? I think I might be.

>>96945869
What is it you're trying to do with Lilith precisely? It would be easier to iron that out and then find lore snippets from each game to explain or further flesh out your idea.

>>96945720
Only Ohioans themselves are lame enough to talk about Ohio. I know this as an Ohioan.

>>96945869
Lilith is a primordial human of some kind, who was cursed by God whoever he is, Awakened as a Mage at some point, then took Caine in and tried to Awaken him but it failed for some reason (the nature of his curse, or simply his own behavior in his vision) and then he betrayed her. The questions you need to answer is how Adam/Lilith/Eve relate to the origin of humans in general (which only really has issue with how WtA presents humanity) and who God is (which every splat has its own answer for, you just need to accept the one you like best.) Lilith herself is adequately explained by Vampire and Mage with only a couple holes you need to fill in yourself, I'm not sure why you need to connect her to some concept in Wraith or Werewolf (and her connection to the Fae is legit just that she had dealings with them, which is fine enough.)

>>96945883
what's in ohio anyways

>>96945936
The stuff of Nightmare.

>>96945893
>>96945880
I was trying for a more refined and, I guess, focused lilin following that formed in the shadow of the week of nightmares. The toj prank that was said week led to things aligning to where as the group grew, initially from vamps and kine, it began to attract the fringes of the other splats.
So a small Verbena coven is nestled among its thorns, a Cryptic demon's cult following is grafted on, fae possibly circle 'em for glamour. The local hunter cell gets seeded when they're clearing out other threats.
A kind of odd monolith I could have in the background despite which splats I use to serve as connective issue like Pentex can. Admittedly my one wraith thing was that a Risen or two find shelter in the garden's shade. Woof link would probably be a pack of Furies negotiating a deal that let them help protect a scared site that resides in the garden.

>>96946004
Sounds like you just want the Bahari. Their main lorebook is Revelations of the Dark Mother (written in-universe by a zealous feminazi that's considered a crank by the rest of the cult) and they're mentioned in V20 Black Hand and Cults of the Blood Gods. They have Mage and Wraith members, so there's the crossover tissue you want.

>>96945869
Lillith is an eternally offended stupid bitch doing whatever she can to get back at Adam. She was just some human that Adam married & so she put on airs & thought that it would make her his equal when that isnt good enough for her she runs off to fuck Lucifer, Adam's sworn enemy. This makes her the first witch who ever got magic from fucking a demon. Eve is created out of Adam to be his true equal, but it also ties their fates together. Lillith tricks Eve with the apple because she's jealous of Eve & will literally spend the rest of her life trying to destroy wholesome femininity because of it. Later she runs into Caine who used to be a Mage but with his new vampire nature his magic is kind of fucked as it cant work given such a drastic change. Lillith isnt a real Mage like Adam & his kids but she knows a bunch of secrets Lucifer told her & so she teaches him how to change his praxis or whatever to "Blood & Vampire shit" which lays the ground work for Disciplines. She teaches him this & takes him in because she planned on using him as a weapon against Adam, but Caine is too wrapped up in being a sad angry hobo & bounces after getting some of his dad's & Lucifer's sloppy seconds. Abel, murdered by Caine goes to rule the underworld, & watch over the Oblivion tear in reality. Lillith will flit out of reality to the abyss of Oblivion so there's a small connection there. Lillith has at least one garden floating out there. Eve is also in the underworld watching iver her son.

>>96945936
A bunch of Sons of Ether trying to claim the stars

>>96946045
This version isn't really consistent with any described in oWoD lore but kinda takes bits of it and twists it, then mixes it with personal vibes on how real-world Judaism looks at Lilith. Which is pretty cool in a headcanon way, definitely can run with it in your games, but shouldn't be treated like facts desu.

>>96946032
Yeah they fit to a degree. That's what refluffing's for. I suppose it was the scope of thing that was stumping me. I know cults can vary in size but it always read as being on the small side to me. Small but numerous because of their "heretical" nature. And I didn't really want small and shaky.
Although do you remember any of the wraith characters or their book?

>>96946071
Its all canon. Just excluding the dumb profeminist shit like Lillith fucking God & just wanting to make her own garden that totes better than god's & lucifer's gardens & how she was raped by Adam & how she's oh so much better than him.

>>96946096
>Its all canon. Just excluding the dumb profeminist shit
Aka, you took canon and excluded the bits you didn't like and replaced them with headcanon. Which fine and cool and all, we all do it, the only issue I'm really taking is acting like you disliking lore makes it not exist. This isn't an edition argument or something where it got retconned, anon.

>>96946096
Okay anon, just like god seething at Caine is too.

>>96945869
I always kind of suspected that at one point Lilith was going to be revealed to be Lailah but the writers changed their minds.

>>96946101
I take the view that all in universe lore can be used or discarded as in universe lies. Im not so much plugging in my own headcanon as just picking & choosing what I consider canon. Its semantics & I apologize for being argumentative about it, but I feel like its a valid distinction.

>>96946122
Discarding it isn't really headcanoning it, so much as you doing things like definitively claiming she wasn't a Mage (when her being one is HEAVILY suggested) or was the Serpent (when there are other possibilities) or especially you imagining motivations that are never stated and insisting on them. Headcanon is when you step beyond the bounds of just tossing out canon, and invent new things to fill the gaps left by you tossing things out.

>>96946120
I think she was going to be Luna, too. By Revised, the Exalted, Demon, and Vampire writers all hated each other, and there was also a philosophical conflict over whether Lilith should be Chuuni Feminist Best Girl, a cosmic abusive mom/battered wife, or a savage wild lady. So, they probably just agreed to shut up about her.

>>96946140
Exalted Luna had already basically been severed from WtA Luna by the time of 2e, both Exalted's and oWoD's 2e, anyway, they gave up on the whole Exalted -> WoD thing.

>>96946138
She's never declared as a Mage & its more likely the stuff she learned from Lucifer was magic power. Her possibly being the serpent is even in the wiki

https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Lilith_(WOD)

You got me on the motivations though. Sorry I guess, but they are very likely given my select interpretation.

>>96946162
Note the language in my own post. "HEAVILY suggested," "other possibilities." I am very careful to avoid saying what she definitively is, even when discussing alternatives proposed in canon. I'm not saying she was declared anything.

>>96936700 (OP)
God fucking dammit
It turns out the five different brownoid taxi drivers were actually cain using disciplines to disguise himself
Though he did impersonate actual peoples
Well played GM well played you threw us off until the malk realised that all these taxi drivers were the same person
Also funny that it’s a new taxi every night

how subjective may the status of a clan be?
i know salubri aren't a clan *anymore* but they are still around, even if their numbers can be counted on a few hands. what made them lose clan status?
are clans just bloodlines that need enough presence and numbers to be considered a clan? do bloodlines need to trace their lineage to an antediluvian to be considered a clan? in that case, let's say if nictuku started gaining significant presence and numbers, could they become a clan, even if they don't replace clan nosferatu?

and if clan status is subjective, are there any clans that don't consider the validity of status of other clans? just like how china and taiwan may not consider each other real countries, or the north/south koreas.

>>96946222
>what made them lose clan status?
Politics.

>>96946227
okay, so it is just presence + numbers?

what about the second part of the question. are there main clans that denounce the status of other clans?

>>96946222
>are clans just bloodlines that need enough presence and numbers to be considered a clan?
I'd say combination of lineage, numbers, disciplines, and the cain curse. Remember disciplines helped demarcate them in a power sense. While Cain curse acted as further proof. Because a toreador will have the toreador combo+weakness.
The nictuku would probably be a special case in the vein of city gangrel if they got the numbers to compare to Medusa and Baba's lines. So a more obvious antitribu despite ostensibly being the 'main' bloodline

>>96946140
>Chuuni Feminist Best Girl
I like this one now that you put it that way. Cosmic failgirl that empowers other failgirls.

>>96945776
My preferred VtM lore headcannon is a Frankenstein monster of v20 and v5, so nobody but me is able to ST in it but me

>>96945869
Unfortunately, Lilith is basically VTM only. She is basically the writer's pet Mary Sue.
Hell, she doesn't even exist in DTF and they went through the whole Caine and Abel business multiple times. Lucifer also didn't bang any Lilith, to the point VTM Time of Judgement makes up their own Lucifer explicitly.

Which is funny when Caine is in multiple splat, to the point Mage ToJ basically says Caine is the first Mage, who made the first focus and the reason why people don't Awaken thanks to his actions.

>>96944589
If the "making my victims better" thing was treated as a straight-up cope alternative to the low morality equivalent, then that could be appropriate.
>>96944968
John Kramer never did anything wrong, it waas all his apprentices fault I tell ya.

>>96944461
>someone steals candy from children
>Let's teach him a lesson by poisoning the candies, traumatizing him by nearly choking him to death with a plastic bag, give him permanent nightmares and turn his house into a lair.
>Heroes come, learns about her, possibly from his victim
>Heroes are bullies

>>96946233
>>96946222
I'd say it's a combination of multiple things.
Being able to trace your bloodline to a direct descendant of a known antediluvian is definitely a big plus. Especially if your powers are emblematic of one of the curses of Caine. I mean that's basically one of the things everyone shits on thinbloods for, you can barely tell they're vampires. How can you be a proper bloodline if you're only kinda ugly instead of Nosferatu-tier ugly?
But they don't HAVE to trace it back to Cain. Tremere are a clan after all.
Numbers is also definitely a thing. I mean it's in the name "Clan". Can't be a clan if there's only a handful of you.
And if there's not that many of you, then your clan as a collective has less overall power. Less presence to fight for your own interests when it comes to vamp politics or even just territory.

With your country/validity argument, isn't that basically what happens with Ventrue/Lasombra antitribu? Each one thinks that they're retarded for betraying the faction that they essentially created?
In WoD, the world is supposed to be more mysterious and isolated, and Western vamps barely know about the Kuei Jin. I suppose that if you're some clan from Asia or Africa you wouldn't be considered a "Clan", but that's mostly due to ignorance. IIRC the Camarila deny the existance of antedilluvians in the first place. So I suppose the validity of a clan by a group may vary depending on how knowledgeable the person you're asking is.

So who would win in Lucifer vs Caine vs Lilith?

>>96946515
God eating the popcorn.

>>96946515
The problem here is that there can't be a definitive end to that fight since God in WoD put his thumb on the scale for Caine. It doesn't matter what you do, God won't let Caine die.

>>96946515
Team up of the century as they pull god into the ring. This monday at sacrifice!

>>96944331
I want to take this opportunity to thank whichever anon maintains the MEGA archives. Wouldn’t have gotten as deep into WoD without your help

>>96946222
Clan is entirely subjective. The only real thing that determines who is a clan and who is not is if the other clans say that you are one of them. Noddist nonsense is a post-facto justification explaining it, but just look at the Tremere and Giovanni. And you can throw Caine existing out the window if you want anyways, I personally find it more interesting to take all the crazed threads of suggested canon anyway.

>>96946837
You'd keep him as a farmer though, right? It's like the funniest bit.

>>96946515
dtf lucifer does not seem to be on the same level as the other two anymore as he is also cut from heaven and also got hit by his own faith related nerfs to demon kind this is shown in his appearance in city of angels where he burns through his entire faith ration and has to run because he is pretty much powerless afterwards (Book even gives the st the story option to say that he burned through so much it might even kill him although he shows up later in toj book)

and we know lilith does not think that she can beat even a weakened caine even when the mark of caine is optional depending on the st

so Caine >weakened Caine> Lilith >>> Lucifer

>>96946222
You need to be able to claim the lineage of an antideluvian, & have enough numbers & influence to hold your own.

In example Tremere were a bloodline until Tremere drank Saulot. Giovanni were a bloodline until the wops drank Capppy. Or like the Brujah & the True Brujah, where they both claim the lineage but one has far more influence than the other

>>96946222
The Tzimisce don't recognise the Tremere as a proper clan. They don't really recognise tgem as proper vampires.
The Harbingers of skulls (Cappadocians) don't count the Giovanni as a proper clan. Which is extra funny in light of v5 making the Giovanni and Harbingers of Skull part of the same group, while explicitly keeping the motivation of the Harbingers to kill all Giovanni. The v5 Hecate explicitly has a group within it that openly wants to destroy the clan and everyone knows and its just ok.

>>96946515
Easily Caine. Even if the infernal power couple teamed up Caine is going to win. It would take ST fiat (ToJ Lillith ending) to have him loose. The motherfucker is a Mage who invented Murder. He could kill anyone he wanted with very little consequence or effort. Even his weaknesses are optional for him. His beef is with God, a philosophical argument about the role of humanity. Only God or the powers of God can truly harm him.

>>96945480
Better get yourself a warm coat, winter is coming and it's gonna be a harsh one.

>>96946222
>and if clan status is subjective, are there any clans that don't consider the validity of status of other clans?
there are several lines that might be "clans" or considered themselves to be a clan but don't have the numbers to back them up:
acording to the Ravnos and Gangrel the Lhiannan are a clan that originated in india with them but betrayed them in their war against the kuei jin but they don't have the numbers so most vamps don't even know they exist and those who do think of them as a irish druid gangrel bloodline

the baali considered themselves a clan but they kinda go their shit beaten in by the rest of undead kind 3 or 4 times

the laibon consider the clans to just be bloodlines while the european kindred (that are aware of them) consider the legacies to be the bloodlines. exception being the setites who both consider to be a clan of untrustworthy snake cultists, but setites themselves lean towards clans instead of legacies being the true major bloodlines of kindred kind

the sabbat considers both city and country gangrel to be equally gangrel while most others consider city gangrel to be a bloodline and the true black hand for some reason considers city gangrel to be aborminations who abbandoned the way of their clan founder despite being fine with other bloodlines

due to some weirdness involving some asian vampires who been printed before kote came out it was retconned that, at least before the great leap outwards, cainites assumed that bushi and gaki are weird asian clans while the kuei jin in turn don't know about the clans and think that cainites belong to 7 weird western dharmas

Is there a spider themed vampire bloodline/clan? It'd be cool to see some spiders vampires that create poison & maybe blood webs

>>96947420
vtm has Akunanse and vtr has the Malocusian
who are very different takes on the spider vampire theme

>>96947420
Well, there are spider shapeshifters that drink blood

>>96947576
>>96947576
>>96947576