Action figures have gotten really good since I was a kid. It's always funny to me to see people fight over which ones are the best these days because across the board the level of quality is so high now.
Whether it's Gundam, Macross, Transformers, etc sculpts, articulation, QC and paint jobs generally seem much better today than 20-30 years ago, especially if you consider 3rd party figures.

I'm wondering if there's any documentaries or blogs that explain what advancements took place over the last 3 decades to allow this to happen?

>>11485141 (OP)
Nothing comes to mind, but having lived through the advancements I can tell you it all started to get serious in the mid-2010's. Hasbro had just started getting their Marvel figures right again after a decade of stumbles and hot off that streak they announced Star Wars Black Series. Shortly thereafter everybody wanted in on the 6 inch super poseable form factor pie, and then the japanese jumped in.

Granted they were always around (especially back in the toybiz days) but even their engineering started to make leaps and bounds in terms of improvement. Thus the importfags were born. Around this same time hasbro was also pushing Transformers engineering harder and harder. The continued success of those movies basically gave them carte blanche to push the envelope and open the doors to headmasters, combiners, triple changers, and all their other (upto that point) retired gimmicks that only third party guys were paying any attention to at that point.

The real elephant in the room was and continues to be China. Through out it all the chinese were learning all the secrets to the trade from the Japanese, Euros, and Americans as the means to manufacture and produce toys advanced even further. The 3P Chinese scene kicked off with unlicensed masterpiece-esque collector oriented transformers but eventually ballooned to cover the entire pie. LEGO, Mezco, Mafex, Marvel Legends, etc. And that pretty much brings us upto date.

>>11485141 (OP)
If you talk about japan, you get the rise of model kits, and how japanese people like max watanabe wanted to make figures that could be mistaken for painted model kits, which is how figma became a thing. Also kamen rider and power rangers were a huge driving force for more articulation, eventually culminating in sh figuarts.

(Also you can talk about beast wars, but its main innovations were placing ball joints everywhere possible.

If you want to talk american, you come to the conclusion that mcfarlane made spawn, which completely upended the toy industry by making toys for teens. This opened a ton of floodgates for making more accurate "collectible toys. Similar to japan, Toybiz uses technology from model kits to develop super articulated toy lines using this new style of accuracy. This gives birth to spiderman classics, and eventually Marvel Legends. After ML, every toy company wanted a super articulated 6" line to match up with it.

Currently japan is fighting with how to make characters more accurate than they already are,which is going to be impossible. The USA is fighting with increased prices, which make their toys unaffordable, as well as their franchises dieing.

In conclusion todd should really release a new spawn wave with a definitive spawn.

If you only want to talk about transformers, the boggest change was in siege, as it brought MP technology to a handheld scale. Before siege transformers were hit and miss, but after they had a unified style and system.

Theres still some outstanding lines before like thrilling 30, but they were the exception and not the rule

Its hard to understand, how much the early hguc kits did to advance toy technology. Having perfectly screen accurate figures with posability was massive.

These kits don't hold up well, but when you compare them to 3.75 gi joes or star wars figures, its clear what comes out of top.

>>11485141 (OP)
>Action figures have gotten really good since I was a kid.
Sounds like you were born at the right time. I didn't start collecting til I was 18. Marvel Legends was already starting, but Super-Posable was still a gimmick for maybe like 3 years later. I collect toys 18 years later because toys sucked before then

>>11485414
Super articulation actually started because of the GI Joe line in the 70s/60s. Some Japanese company licensed the bodies from Hasbro and shrunk it down for smaller figures. So there were a ton of 80s lines that had super articulated toys.

Modern super articulation came from Toy Biz and McFarlane trying to out do each other, by inventing or utilizing joints differently for figures, but randomly and unevenly. Toy Biz basically standardized the super articulation engineering for an entire line with the Marvel Legends line. Arguably, the Spiderman Classics line tried to do it too, but it was still pretty random.
Super articulation didn't catch on in Japan (for collector toys) until Kaiyodo's executive started copyijng McFarlane's randomness in joints, hence the birth of the Revoltech line.

>what innovations took place
For articulation? None. Artist mannequins have been around for atleast 100 years.

If you look into toy archeaology articulated dolls have been a thing since the dawn of humanity. We were experimenting with wooden joints since the dawn of man. Theres also lots of record involving automata and other forms of articulated idolatry. Its a human trait to build super articulated figures of other people.

As for sculpts, thats all basically from the rise of computer graphics and modeling. Its easier to make an accurate symetrical sculpt than a super detailed stylized one.

>>11485436
Gi joe were not known for articulation. The early first doll line was, but not the 3.75 reboot. The 3.75 reboot was notable for its vehicles, weapons, and character selection. Largely the toy industry moved away from 3.75, so gi joes contibutions aren't all that relevant on the modern industry.

(Its especially not relevant to japan, since joes are an american influence)

Its cyclical we went from 1/6 to 1/18 because prices increased for manufacturing then stabilized and collectors wanted 1/12 and now we’re back at increased prices which will result in shrinking again to 1/18 to survive even with the millenial and older gen z finances

>>11485440
computers only made things cheaper and easier to do.
Talent for sculpts has been around for ages, but it wasn't until the 90s when McFarlane started experimenting with high pressure injection molding (which also had been around and used for ages) by telling their sculptors to go crazy on the sculpts. Before then, toy makers didn't think toys could be molded with great detail and Mcfarlane proved them all wrong.

And before the 00s, most toys were sculpted as 2ups. It made it easier for sculptors to sculpt their toys at 2 times the size the toy would be, which was shrunk down with a pantograph machine. In around the 00s, they started sculpting toys at their toy's size (~8% difference actually, due to molding inaccuracies) to cheap out and cut out that step.
Computers are also used to cut out steps to save money, btw, since it saves time and material costs. Sometimes it saves on a talented sculptor altogether, since they do use already made 3d files (from video games or movies), and just use an intern modify it for toy use.

There's still a few toy companies/sculptors who still dont use computers to sculpt and even do 2ups still, like 4H, but even they scan their sculpts in to send it off to the factories.

>>11485448
GI Joes were dolls in the 60s/70s. And that's what was used as the basis for that Japanese toyline.

BTW, you're completely joking if you think GI Joe wasnt relevant. IT was one of the biggest lines and had a million knockoffs, and again, even the basis for one of Japanese biggest toylines too.

>>11485414
He still makes spawn figures. Idk if they are better than the multiverse figures but his dc stuff seems popular enough.

>>11485418
man going from PoTP to Siege was an insane moment, after handling PoTP grimlock who was like fine but not great to Prime who was light years above him is a great moment for me.

>>11485418
This is gross simplification.

Transformers peaked in quality and transformation around the time of reveal the shield and almost totally collapsed. Titians return started to bring back some of the quality, but potp dropped off again. Siege was the beginning of the modern well articulated over greebled soap bottles with dumpy un-dynamic proportions that really hasn't left the line since.

Don't get me wrong, there are still some gems like Jetfire and Magmatron among them, but many older figures hold up perfectly to today even with lesser articulation.

>>11485464
No one cares about a failed toyline. Gi Joe is only still around because a small group of investors scalp their toys. Its not even sold abroad because of how unpopular it is.

>>11485141 (OP)
>explain what advancements took place over the last 3 decades to allow this to happen?
Some of the advancements are technological/manufacturing based, but by and large, the biggest "advancement" is that there are simply more capable and passionate toy designers now—people have access to 3D modeling software and are able to learn more on their own before getting out of school than someone with "a lifetime of experience" knew 20 years ago.

>>11485770
Also digitally scanning actors takes out 99% of the work from the initial sculpt of movie toys

>>11485587
This. Most Transformers fans don't know shit about "technology" and can't tell that the biggest thing dictating the quality of toylines was the price of plastic. As you said, a lot of stuff from around 2009 has fairly impressive engineering, even by today's standards. That was simply the natural evolution of Hasbro investing in more complex toy designs for a growing market of collectors willing to pay higher prices for a better product.

Then things seemed to "fall off" during the Prime Wars era, but that had more to do with budget than anything else. Figures had been getting smaller since the 2011 or so due to rising plastic prices, and Prime Wars was simply a restructuring toward simpler toys with less plastic and more straightforward transformations in order to keep things afloat.

Siege marked another change in direction, this time coupled with big price hikes. Deluxes currently cost TEN dollars more than they did a decade ago. Any perceived improvement in toy design that began with Siege was literally just because they're charging you more. Not some miraculous revolution in engineering technology. They also started fucking around with the whole "figure class as a price point and not a size" bullshit, which allows them to recoup losses elsewhere by charging 25 bucks for figures like Huffer or Cliffjumper that are effectively scout sized.

But honestly, most toys since Siege aren't any better engineered than anything during the Prime Wars era. They just have more plastic and focus more on cartoon accuracy. A good number of them have fairly unsatisfying/unfinished feeling transformations, and absolute garbage alt modes.

>>11485141 (OP)
I'd say the real "boom" moment for collector grade figures getting really good was 2008, when the Figma line started. Early Revoltechs were hit-or-miss, with some fantastic figures that are still fun today but also some kinda wonky ones. But the original Figmas were absolutely leaps and bounds ahead of anything else that had come out before in terms of being relatively faithful to the character designs whilst also being more poseable than 99% of the market. And their success motivated the rest of the market to step their game up too.
It would also be worth mentioning that the original Wave and Hobby Base joints (I forget which came first, both had their origins in the late 90s if memory serves) were massively influential, as the very basic design of modular universal joints using 3mm pegs is what gave birth to Revoltech and Figma, both of which innovated in their own way (Revoltech by incorporating ratchets, Figma by taking the basic concept and playing with the shape with flatter hinges, offset pegs etc).
One could also argue that when companies like Bandai and Goodsmile started releasing high-end figures of Western properties it was a kick in the pants for the US toy market to start making better figures, as they had actual competition from the East now. We might still have Bucky Cap tier figures as the best America could make were it not for Japanese figures forcing them to up their game.

>>11485448
>The early first doll line was, but not the 3.75 reboot.
It was absolutely known for articulation, which is why the model was chosen for line like Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat, where movement was necessary to make them fight.
that said, the idea to shrink the 12'' Joe model to a smaller scale came from Microman first.

>>11485587
>but many older figures hold up perfectly to today even with lesser articulation.
It's wild how difficult it is for a new toy of a character to be more than a sidegrade of a 15-20 year old previous version

>>11485792
>Early Revoltechs were hit-or-miss
I got one of those Optimus Prime revoltechs and could not understand why people were praising the toyline at all. Yeah, tehcnically, all the joints had amazing range, but none of the ratchets in the joints were sturdy enough to hold stable poses. Everything was just a bit wibbly, all the time, and it kind of sucked a lot of fun out of it, for me.

>>11485832
The harder, "clickier" joints they introduced later massively improved the line IMO.

These videos make me want so slam my head through a wall. There's a subset of collectors who don't seem to comprehend the difference between a children's toy and an adult collectable. The figures in picrel were never intended for the same demographic.

>>11485418
>>11485587
This, Transformers is a series of lateral moves. A lot of what we got in 200
A lot of the 2009-2011 toys were designed by the same designer of a lot of the MPs too, and you can even tell the engineering even in gimmicky toys like the Battle Ops Bumblebee using
The best paint we ever got at retail was probably the Car Robots imports along with the transmetals and the Premium 2007 releases. The best engineering was probably the ROTF and 2010 lines.
Modern TF toys big addition was making fiction accuracy more of a focus, as well as standardizing ankle rockers and waist swivels. But I'm hard pressed to say they're actually better as figures given how good things were, even if I'd agree there could be a lack of consistency. I don't think we hit the peaks we used to in the pricepoints under $80

>>11485802
The guy just seems to be a crazy weeaboo, who doesn't want to know how Japan copied american/western shit like crazy.

And no, the idea to shrink to a smaller scale actually came from Kenner's Star Wars line. There are other smaller lines before Microman and STar Wars too, but Star War's popularity is what made so many other toy companies start making toys in a smaller scale.
Hasbro and others could have shrunk their 12" dollies to 8" like the popular MEGO figures at the time, or gone 5" action figures like from Mattel, but instead they went to 3.75" to copy Star Wars' popularity.

The Microman line was too unknown in the west for anyone to really notice and sales obviously weren't there either.

pic of how even MEGO started making toys in 3.75" for their Star Wars ripoff/inspiration toyline. note the similar engineering to Hasbro's 1982 GI Joe line, despite coming out in 1979.

>>11485792
Figma only exists because of Revoltech though. They were the first to catch on in japan to make a collectors action figure line, instead of just statueshit and articulated statueshit. Companies like ArtFX were even earlier, but Revoltech popularized them and made more companies start producing figures too.

>>11485832
weebs praised them because it was the first time they saw collector grade toys. It's like how people praise Halo as the first multiplayer FPS.

>>11485832
>but none of the ratchets in the joints were sturdy enough to hold stable poses
I bought a Queen's Blade revoltech back then and I almost chalked up her inability to keep her legs closed as a feature.

>>11485141 (OP)

not everything has improved. materials have gotten worse in a lot of lines in the last 20 years, cost cutting has tanked transformers plastic quality. G1 may be simplistic by todays design standards but the plastic was much more durable & there was much more chrome & die cast metal.

technology has massively improved but actual manufacturing standards have slipped.

>>11486756
>actual manufacturing standards have slipped.
That's what happens when you ship all the jobs overseas to shitholes like China and India.

>>11486464
They're better as figures, but less interesting as toys.
There are too many redecos, recolors and retools. Too many transformation steps that are exactly the same as older figures, makes it feel like they're all the same, and we don't really see gimmicks anymore outside of base modes and halfassed "for kids" lines, for better or for worse.

>>11485141 (OP)
Transformers are a special case. In a number of respects I think things are quite clearly worse today than they have been in the past. I don't feel that way about action figures at large, but Transformers peaked between 2009 and 2012.

>>11487624
Engineering and sculpts have never been better, but the biggest issue with Transformers is QC, the materials they have to use, especially the clear plastics and distribution which is somehow just terrible. But thats for Generations, its a bit similar in the kid lines except they really cheap out on them, one step changers are cool but they reuse engineering and molds so damn much.

>>11488068
>Engineering and sculpts have never been better, but the biggest issue with Transformers is QC, the materials they have to use, especially the clear plastics and distribution which is somehow just terrible.

>>finally getting every character I've wanted but in the era of cheapest plastic and highest prices

I can't even tell the kids lines from the adult ones because everything is tied to an open cardboard box with string

Why do transfags overrate Siege so much? They're just G1 brick men with modern articulation and some of the shittiest """battle damage""" paintjobs ever. Their alt modes were also outright terrible. I mean look at this. It's a joke.

And really, "Masterpiece technology"? Lol, lmao

Was it just because it was coming off of POTP, which was probably one of the worst toylines in history?

>>11486756
>there was much more chrome & die cast metal.
Why's this a good thing? Chrome flakes, and the toys don't need metal to be stable, even more now that they include stand connectors.

>>11488116
>Their alt modes were also outright terrible. I mean look at this. It's a joke.
>Proceeds to post one of the best prime truck modes of all time
If you posted something like siege soundwave then your retarded take would be more agreeable.

>>11485141 (OP)
I'd like to know about the history of Kaiyodo, how did it come to be and how did it evolve to the current Revoltech and AYs

>>11488994
It all goes back to the monoshaft era...

>>11487609
That's part of what made new Megatronus jump out to me, not only is it a big ticket item of a niche character but the toy itself does a lot of moves that aren't seen in the transformers playbook

>>11488068
>Engineering and sculpts have never been better
Eh. A lot of vehicle/alt modes are pretty bad these days.

>>11485782
Earthrise clifjumper and arcee have always been hilarious to me. How the hell did partsforming of that degree get approved?

>>11488068
Engineering is highly case by case. Commander's? Sure. Leaders? Fine voyagers and deluxes have very often been compromised in many ways in the past decade.

>>11489144
It makes a bunch of moves that turn a fairly neutered robot mode into a vague tank shape. The Stockholm syndrome like love of that figure makes me crazy. His robot mode is anemic, and his tank mode is bland and full of hideous gaps.

>>11485782
>>11488116
I come back in a week, to see none of the transformers fans have any idea what they are talking about.

The unified style going forward from siege, combined with the innovations from masterpiece toys was incredible. I bought past lines like reveal the shield and they suck. Most classics figures looks like they can be from 10 different toy lines because there is no unified aesthetic. Look at this wacky perceptor with arms about to fall off, and compare that to the 86 perceptor. Hasbro designers were fumbling around in the dark, until siege where japanese started taking more of the reigns.

Also that optimus is fine for what it was. Its proportinately correct and has enough articulation to do anything an optimus should do.

BBWumblebee

Tracks but he has a high BMI

You can complain about the new tracks bumblebee and perceptor, but they are all on model.

(Also stand pegs are cool too)

>>11489558
>choosing a misstransformed picture of one of the best redesigns
>muh "on model"
>nobodyunderstandsbutmeeee

>>11489753
But that Perceptor was shit, and always sounded like you were breaking it when you transformed it.

>>11489753
Not even looking at the arms, the legs are disproportinate with small foreshortened thighs. The gigantic torsos to hide the transformations dont help either

Its like if you asked katoki to make a robot look as bad as possible. You can hate new transformers, but being "on model" should be a requirement for being a good transformer.

(Continued)
Other than the massove backpack this optimus is perfect. It has a thin physique, while emphasizing the shoulderpads, and being accurate to the original interpretation. This is what itd look like if katoki redesigned laser prime.

>>11489523
I also found the new megatronus rather disappointing. He looks so flat and weird, and I feel like the whole figure was compromised because they wanted his alt mode to have a rotating turret instead of being a tank destroyer like the original design (and then fucked it up)
The energon flames are cool at least

it's amazing to go back to the very first gunpla that required the use of cement everywhere because snapping them together just wasn't a thing yet

>>11490383
Well thing is, Bandai did make some snapfit kits pre-1980s, but it was cheaper to manufacture cement fit kits.

>>11485141 (OP)
Looking at them side by side, MP-10 really does have weird proportions, huh?

>>11490575
Yeah... the head legs from the knees down and the lower biceps and elbows are very odd looking. The torso and thighs are fine. Mpg Prime seems to have inherited some of the better features in robot mode.

>>11490247
This looks less cool than the original.

>>11489558
Yeah, I get why people hold the older lines in high standing but early chug was kinda a mess
Universe was just mostly dogshit, classics actually had some good stuff but was incredibly short lived, t30 was very mixed with really good figures and figures that seem really good but are bogged down by clunky articulation and awful transformations
I would say the most consistently good thing were the alt modes, but there was some real ugly shit among them that not having gaps doesn't really fix.

Nothing was or is as bad as prime wars era though, what a fucking shitshow that was

>>11490687
>Nothing was or is as bad as prime wars era though, what a fucking shitshow that was
Eh, I thought TR had some nice figures, Topspin especially. Love his little Artmic space jet mode.
As for older CHUG there were definitely some stinkers, but some good ones too. Universe '08 Inferno and Onslaught are favourites of mine.

>>11485448
>The 3.75 reboot was notable for its vehicles, weapons, and character selection.
That all came from the Kenner Star Wars line, which G.I.Joe ARAH / Action Force was a blatant copycat of. G.I.Joe didn't really "contribute" anything new there, but they did add more points of articulation compared to Kenner, and arguably they just did the same thing better only without the big movie license.
And they absolutely were one of the big, popular toy lines at the time. I'm from Europe and Action Force absolutely was a thing here, it wasn't as big as MOTU, TMNT or Transformers but it was definitely in the second tier. Every kid knew what it was and the articulation was the main thing it was known for. It may have started as some "america hurrah guns freedom" thing in their home country but they were quite successfully internationalized and sanitized for the overseas market.

>>11490575
The proportions were constantly ragged on before fans conceded there was no MP Prime at that scale so they gaslit themselves to liking it. Now we live in the present day of liars who go "I ALWAYS liked it!"

>>11490575
It does, but it's an awesome toy and I prefer it to every OP we've gotten since. MPG-17 looks like an overall improvement though, assuming the transformation isn't ass.

>>11490575
They're a bit odd but not awful IMO, especially for a 14 year old toy. Main thing putting me off buying one is the articulation. I can handle 90 degree knees and elbows on Sideswipe (especially as he has an unintentional but very functional ab crunch, was the first car-bot and is in general a great toy) but Prime deserves a bit better, you know? I will say the overall design language in terms of detailing, colour/paint choices and sculpting style is still my favourite G1 Prime toy to date. The OG Magic Square comes close, and I love how they managed to not fake the grille in robot mode, but the colours could be better.

>>11490575
I spent so long as a teen coveting it as something I couldn't afford that I've grown really attached to the way it looks. Even knowing the other ones are more "accurate", they still feel wrong to me.

>>11490243
>but being "on model" should be a requirement for being a good transformer.
No, what matters is build quality, engineering, stability, playability. Being "on model" and a "unified aesthetic" only matters to people who want to look at a figure on a shelf, not to people who judge it based on merits alone.

It's because of stuff like this that we now have to pay extra for weapons, skipping out on engineering that nobody would have gotten away with 10 years ago and a perpetual homogenization issue where every figure now has to look like it came from G1. The creativity of Transformers which many of the people up to the early 2010s enjoyed are getting little out of lines where their only real pull is "accuracy"

>>11492885
don't know what kinda assfaggotry you've got, but G1 accuracy? it's kino, it's based, it's epic, it's beautiful. you better be careful what shit talk comes out of you mouth next

>>11492885
Agreed, honestly. Not all of those 2010s era guys were good but a lot of them were (and still are) and the overall visual design philosophy was incredible. Still want the guys in your pic honestly- kinda want the DOTM Vortex redeco for the weird non-combining Combaticon collection I'm putting together.

>>11492885
Only change is now it's "everything looks like G1", back then it was "everything looks like bayformer"

>>11485251
Ah the black series use to be so fun. I remember when they dropped the newer face printing and all the figures look 10x better for like 25$. Shit was so nice. It's kinda run its course for me. I got pretty much everything id want but its cool still seeing people serious about it. More power to you guys. What's kinda funny is my first black series figure was Jedi Revan and my last one was Darth Malak. They look great though. Especially the troopers. With my storm troopers i mixed a bunch of the 1/12 scale troopers together to make them all look like different people. Soemthing cool about having the model kit and Black Seies troopers next to eachother. I ended up just getting black series clone troopers so they all looked more consistent.

>>11490575
Nothing has surpassed the MP01 imo. Every subsequent MP Prime is striving to scratch a different niche, but none of them come off as so utilitarian and fully-thought out as that original MP Prime. If we ever get a redux of it my hope is that they fix the hips and keep everything else in tact.

>>11493104
>"everything looks like bayformer"
RTS Jazz looks like a bayformer?

>>11493104
You mean good? And fun? Unlike boxy G1 crap where everything is the same boring season 1 cast?

>>11490243
oh no, the robot alien doesn't have human proportions, the tragedy, the horror
they should all be stacks of squares and rectangles, that's good design

For Transformers you can see serious progression from the unlicensed third party scene regardless of what you think about the whole shadow market it's become. It's gone from dodgy upgrade kits to quality full figure lines in all scales and styles. There are several companies that have taking figure engineering to interesting places, with highly detailed and articulated figures in the smallest legends scale, to fully integrated combiners, to perfecting inside out transformations to achieve better accuracy for the impractical g1 and bayformers designs.