Are they right?

>>211411263 (OP)
Yes, Disney even had to give a retarded origin for Han Solo’s name and Chewbacca’s nickname

>>211411263 (OP)
It was right, but because it was posted on Reddit I now disagree with it.

>>211411338

>>211411263 (OP)
I actually really liked the Ballerina movie because it didn't delve into the lore at all

>>211411263 (OP)
Yes.

>>211411459
https://youtu.be/oM_WvP4bVKs?si=hU-lIoUoKDuaDiWm

>>211411555
It wasn't originally a John Wick script. The studio bought the script and attached Wick to it hoping it would make it sell better.

>>211411574
>>211411459
kinoooo

it was the choreography....

>>211411263 (OP)
You can't keep making the same film over and over again. You have to give people something new to digest if you make sequels. You have to expand the world, raise the stakes or explain something that was obviously an unpulled thread. You can't tease a deeper universe and then not deliver on it. The problem then becomes do people like the explanation you've given them. The world you've built. If everything is a mystery its easy for people to come up with their own conclusions that suit them. But ultimately you can't make money off that. You can't expand that. At some point you have to take a stand and say how it actually is. Again, you risk people not liking what you build for them, but that's life

>>211411263 (OP)
As I've gotten older I grown to hate lore. Just tell me a good story with good characters and leave all the shallow worldbuilding for your spin-off comics and novels no one will read.

People liked the first John Wick because the action scenes were well choreographed and shot cleanly instead of using shaky cam or 1 trillion unnecessary cuts, which had become the norm for action films at that time. That and the soundtrack.

The story was basically following John Carmack's rule
>like story in a porn movie, it's expected to be there but it's not important
It was a very basic excuse for a retired killer to go on a revenge rampage. It's good enough to give you the action, but nobody is really compelled by it.

>>211412038
People repeat that phrase as if it means something, but Doom was overshadowed by Half-Life and other story-based games, while the original "boomer shooters" failed because once their gameplay gimmicks wore off, they had nothing left to offer

>>211412312
Funny you mention Half Life when its a dead series and Doom just released a new game

>>211412351
A new game that has heavy lore

World building is best done when its just a few images or mentions of something, allowing the viewer to develop their own vision of what took place or how things work. World building sequels often fail because what the writer creates is not what the viewers headcannon was.

A good example of good world building is Castle in the Sky: it alludes to a great war having destroyed much of civilization not long before the film takes place by showing the vast stretches of empty bombed out buildings, abandoned industry, and weary but strong people, not having some autist explain the motives for the war, belligerents, significant battles, ending treaties, etc., because none of that matters in the fillm

>>211411263 (OP)
No, prequels can be good, it just takes hard work, like anything. The problem is woke culture.

>>211412440
Which proves the point, its not about "lore" its about showing up. If you don't keep making entries a series fades into irrelevance anyway. You either keep making something new or its ceases to hold peoples attention

>>211411263 (OP)
yes
only autists care about the lore
and most of the moving going audience want enough lore, which is very little, to understand the plot of what they're seeing
reddit guy is right

>>211412351
hl alyx came out 5 years ago, in valve time that's almost yesterday

>>211411263 (OP)
I agree with him but I don't know if loreshit can be avoided due to the nature of franchises.
An alternative would probably be stories told in the same universe by different people, not having to strictly adhere to lore, like stories in the old days.

>>211412616
No reddit guy is wrong. He wants action man to keep doing action things with no explanation for why he is doing them. If reddit man had his way John Wick would get a new dog every movie and someone new would kill his the dog

>>211412720
that worked for Taken and Police Academy

>>211412549
Of course you need a good gameplay loop, but the story being a secondary thought is a retarded idea that can only work if you have a truly revolutionary gameplay design.

AITA for calling OP a faggot redditor???

>>211412312
People still fuck with the original doom while all those story based games are dead.

>>211411263 (OP)
Yes, lore for the sake of lore is shit.

>>211412616
>and most of the moving going audience want enough lore, which is very little, to understand the plot of what they're seeing
alien covenant wouldve been better if david's experiments were shown

>>211411263 (OP)
Wrong that people don't care about lore. Lore sells these days. Its why you have 1000 wikipedias for Star Wars, including stupid shit like this:
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Reproduction
Right that is devalues the product to the point were people stop caring. Wikipedias are fun for like 1 hour or 2, but eventually people just move on.

GO DISCUSS WHETHER XHE'S RIGHT OR WRONG ON FUCKING REDDIT WHERE YOU ALL BELONG

>>211412788
Those are autists

Lore shit only exists because studios want big franchises. There’s no genuine desire to world build and have that add to a character’s story. Han Solo is a good example like the redditor said. The kessel run didn’t add anything to Han, it wasn’t a growth moment for him. It was just something for writers to check off so fans could go "oh so that was the kessel run" but no one cared

He is only partially right. Ideally you leave enough breadcrumbs for the autists to obsess about the lore and tell a good enough story with great cinematography for the normies. The first John Wick did a great job with both but after that it's been a mess. I could totally buy a shadowy organization with its own rules operating in the world of criminality, but 24/7 telephone operators? Consecration? Adjudicator? Blood oath markers? "The one who sits above the table"? The reason why 4 was received better than 2 and 3 is because it dialed back on the convoluted additions to the lore. If the worldbuilding were kept simple with only hints to the world at large, I think the movies would have been better off. So no, it's not that "people don't care about lore"; they do care, if it's good.

The lore is good.
Stories as they progress often introduce some new role.
If they dont overdo it its fine.

Whats happening flopping Ballerina is that people dont want to invest time in to her story.
They know what to expect, but they likely got their fill with the 4 JW movies already.
They went to see how his story ends..
Watching the new one, even if familiar world...
Not many people want to invest time to learn her story.
Aspect of female lead who is trained by black women maybe plays role too, its too "by the numbers" hollywoof

>>211411263 (OP)
>>211413268
Spin-off's work when you actually have a pre-established character, no one knew who this was, if she had a role in one of the John Wick movies people would have watched it and it would have done well

>>211411263 (OP)
Thanks reddit! Great post! Wish I could upvote ya!

>>211411263 (OP)
Oh yea, bro. Me and my bros always meet up and chat about how deeply affected we were by the grief in John Wick. We definitely aren't watching for mindless action sequences with cool kills in unique settings.

>>211413453
Right, like Furiosa-
wait

>>211413453
name spinoff that worked for a movie
no series, no andor..
spinoff movie

>>211411263 (OP)
Mogs the strongest effortpost on /tv/.
Look how his post is broken up into easily legible paragraphs and single lines. On /tv/ retards will write a wall of text that no one will read just to avoid the accusation of "reddit spacing", which was formerly just normal syntax you'd use when posting on forums predating both reddit and 4chan. Thus, anons on /tv/ are eternally obsessed with preformative in-group signalling as opposed to actual discussion. They will even attack posters who make high quality contributions. And 4chan's system inherently discourages discussion. An amazing post might be made and read by many anons, but no one will reply to it, leading to quality posters feeling that no one even read their post. It cannot be overstated just how hard reddit mogs /tv/ in terms of discussion, post quality, decorum, and ease of communication. Of course anons would tell me to "go back", which I can't because I'm already there. I split my time between reddit (my home base) and /tv/ (coordinated expedition with other reddit users to improve this hellhole). So you can save it. Instead of wasting your keystrokes on that, think about how you can make /tv/ a better place. Change starts with you.

I'm not going to watch it but by its very existence this "ballerina" film squanders an actually good bit of worldbuilding that john wick 2 introduced
When he goes back to the gypsy compound and you get the contrast between the boys and the girls, how the boys are training to fight while the girls are training ballet. Both are portrayed as struggles, as competitive and as sacrifices. The girl rips her own toenail off without a murmur. It's kind of sad and melancholy, and it builds the world that these characters inhabit - these people have nothing and are nobody, and they're forced to fight (in the way they're best suited to) in order to survive. It's stark and cold, and there's no joy or luxury, nobody gets a choice over who they want to be, girls do ballet and boys fight. And it informs the main character, because you know he went through this, and he was the best. How does he feel, when he sees the boys and girls struggling, knowing most won't make it, and those that do only have more pain and suffering to come? It's sad, which makes it a great piece of worldbuilding. And they fucking squandered it, by saying actually the gypsy girls are le secret assassins too

>>211411459
This song is a banger idgaf im soloooooo

>>211412788
>all those story based games are dead
Yeah nobody has ever replayed games like BioShock or Metro or Dishonored or Wolfenstein New Colossus/Old Blood. And third person games with story that people go back to time and again like RPGs or Red Dead or Silent Hill and the like? Pffft, unheard of. Now, shitty dime a dozen battle royales? Yeah, those aren't dying off every other week.

>>211413664
The Scorpion King

>>211411263 (OP)
If lore was of utmost importance Dark Souls wouldn't have created an entire new gaming genre, it's the same in gaming. No one gives a shit about lore except the nerds. But it's also moronic to call it diminishing returns.

>>211414926
>*laughs in VaatiVidya*

>>211411263 (OP)
Blimey, a good post on Reddit?
These truly might be the end-times.
Yes, nobody gives a fuck about the lore of most franchises, we just care about the characters that the original story was about.

>>211415173
You just proved my point. People literally need someone else to explain lore for them post-game and enjoy pure gameplay as is I mean, he wouldn't be popular if everyone was a loreseeking wizard playing the game now, would he?
Plus, how many soulslike games have been produced that focused on lore?? It's the gameplay.

>>211411263 (OP)
Yes. This problem happens a lot with sequels. It's why not every movie needs to be a franchise.

>>211411263 (OP)
How do I give this post gold?

>>211415308
>You just proved my point
By showing you people cared about lore so much they spawned the careers of hundreds of people online and created entire communities around it as early as by the time Bloodborne hit?

>>211411651
Did you watch the film?
I've already watched the assassin daughter plot in Kill bill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQM0klOXck8
Ballerina childhood was kind of filler plot and everything else was pure wickverse
Even tho they have bought some script the final product doesn't use it. You get a lot of fights and tiny drops of history.

>>211415498
no

>>211412537
This is why a lot of people love the Souls games by Miyazaki. They show you a broken and dead world and the explanation for what killed the world is given via vague item descriptions that turn the story into a kind of puzzle that some people can choose to fit together and speculate on what it means as a whole. Subtlety is a much more interesting method of storytelling, you don't NEED to know the backstory behind every character.

>>211413664
Hobbs and shaw.

>>211414468
>BioShock or Metro or Dishonored or Wolfenstein New Colossus/Old Blood
Those are all raw sewage dude, you have normalfag taste in vidya. And yes Half Life 2 is also garbage.

>>211415683
>no argument
I'll accept the concession

>>211411263 (OP)
World building is rpg bullshit

>>211415630
This shit literally only works for games because the gameplay carries it, but when you do dive deep into the lore of a souls game, you realize that it was a vastly better story than what you are playing right now.
It's why they never receive storytelling awards.

>>211411263 (OP)
I really don't know what they were thinking with the title. That alone must've cost them at least a couple of millions.

>>211412312
>story fag

>>211411263 (OP)
No. The issue isn't explaining things, it's telling good stories. Knowing more about the space jockey is only a bad thing because they told a shitty story. If they had told a good story, it would be fine. And there isn't some inherent property of explaining things that makes the story guaranteed to be bad.

>>211415570
>Did you watch the film?
No, I read the version that was on the Black List a while ago.

>>211415895
I mean, it kinda is the story that you're playing, you're just playing at the end of it after all of the story has mostly come to pass. You're always playing as the clean-up man whose role it is to end the broken cycle.
Would be interesting to see a Miyazaki RPG set in a living world rather than a post-apocalyptic one but it would have to be so enormous and sprawling that it would probably be difficult for a videogame.

>>211416053
>From the World of John Wick
What does that even meant?