It's impossible to tell

This is what they Fucking took from us!

>>211493532
So many ugly niggers

>>211493532
fucking hell

>>211493363 (OP)
>Show fails spectacularly after arrogantly spurning beloved source material
What a shame

>>211493532
I am grateful they took that away from me.
please take it far, far away.
and maybe burn it too?
thanks.

>>211493363 (OP)
It sucked

>>211493532
I have read the books a bunch. I can recognize maybe 2 people here. The show they gave us was just as trash as the Halo show. I have sworn undying vengeance against that Rafe guy.

>it needed a different show runner
based manda_was_here

>>211494119
>based manda_was_here
She actually had to turn her IG private after she posted that because the showfans started brigading her and making death threats.

>>211493887
Harriet supported it

>>211495943
>I used to think that it might be impossible for a movie to really encompass any of the books, but since seeing The Lord of the Rings, I've changed my mind. In any case, Harriet says (and Plato agrees with her) that the only thing to do when you sell a book to Hollywood is to take the money, walk away very fast before they can take it back, and never, ever go to see the movie.

>>211493532
Hollywood doing well to prove that browns are not human

>>211497098
>RJ and Harriet sell the rights to scam artists
>RJ realises he's been hoodwinked and fumes about it even on his death bed
>Scam artists renew the rights with ashcan pilot written by Sarah Nakamura airing in infomercial slot on the last day of use-or-lose expiration
>Director of the pilot tragically dies the day after filming with no record of his existence outside of a facebook post and imdb page
>Harriet is blindsided and makes public complaint saying it was unauthorized
>Scam company sues her
>Harriet is forced to settle
>Scam company named executive producers for Amazon deal
>Backlash from fans comes in over casting, plot, costuming decisions
>Harriet full-throatedly defends all choices and lambastes critics
Notwithstanding the fact that as chief editor she apparently slept with every popular author under Tor, her behavior protecting Jordan's estate seems very cold, removed, and uncaring. Compare her maintenance of this IP to Chris Tolkien's (who fucking hated Jackson's shit even though it was praised). Jordan deserved better

>>211497594
>Director of the pilot tragically dies the day after filming with no record of his existence outside of a facebook post and imdb page
Wait the director of Winter Dragon died the day after filming? What the fuck. I never heard about that

>>211493887
Turns out the writers' faggy fantasy novel was rejected for a reason.

>>211497767
WoT was a bigger book series than ASOIAF

>>211493363 (OP)
I know is merely a matter of "making it big" but it surprises me is when they actually believe they are something special and not a mere propaganda disposable tool.

>>211497711
#JusticeforSeda
It's the shadiest shit of all time, I dare you to find anything shadier. They keep changing their name too

>>211493363 (OP)
>I don't know...
>...but it must've been racist white CISmales!
Like clockwork.

>>211497855
>One faggy series had a bigger fagdom than another faggy series

>beloved by fans
only because all criticism from every public venue was hard censored

>>211493532
serious question, has a show full of black people like this that wasnt specifically aimed at black audiences, been successful?

>>211493532
So which of these are part of the Black Ajah?

>>211498762
>le black people
They ruined the fucking story and used casting choices as cover against any criticism

>>211499111
damn. you didnt understand what i asked at all.

>>211499507
It's just that this sort of astroturfing is the preferred method to control discussion where moderators aren't bought, my bad mi alantin

>>211499507
I cannot think of an example unless you count Bridgerton. That seems to be popular with normie women.

>>211493532
Liandrin always make me laugh
holy shit

>>211498762
Fresh prince.

>>211498762
Eminem.

>>211493363 (OP)
ya'll watched this, truly?

iwot productions and Squeeze Studios have announced The White Tower, an animated The Wheel of Time prequel movie that will follow a young girl with a special gift who must rise up against an evil that threatens everything she loves.

The official description reads. "It is an action-adventure about a young girl with a special gift whose life is forever changed when evil visits her remote mountain village. Finding herself alone in a dangerous world, she must go to The White Tower to learn how to use her magical powers in order to save her family and friends. Rebellious and distrusting, she learns that friendship can be as powerful a weapon against evil as any form of magic."

A lot of assholes wouldn't even give this show a Fucking chance!

>>211497711
Seda deserved better then to not ever exist. How these literal mafia haven't been shut down arrested and thrown into prision forever is baffling, anyone can see they are a front company for money laundering and yet amazon even has capitulated to...wait excuse me while I laugh
AHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH
Ladragon arrested for being clearly a fake person who invented a fake person to "direct" a "pilot" is maybe one of the most ludicrous things i've ever seen the most disturbing thing is no-one ever talks about it. Everyone pretends red eagle entertainment or w/e the fuck they are calling themselves now are a real company.

>>211501851
>thank you for trusting me
no-one fucking trusted you sarah you sellout hack, I know more about WoT then you ever will.

>>211493363 (OP)
Perrin is my favorite and they made him a gigamutt.

>>211502183
*mondragon
yes apparently everyone just accepts this obvious shell company that has only one license "wheel of time" is run by a man named Larry Mondragon, everyone just accepts this as fact and never questions the untimely death of that most mysterious of figures Seda

>>211501674
I did, it wasn't good, I can't even remember anything that happened in it that's how little impact it left on me

>>211501674
I gave it a chance, I watched it for a couple of episodes with friends. I hadn't read the books, some of my friends had, and they were very confused about some of the changes. I didn't really find it compelling.
Later I started reading the books and I had the same confusion.

You MotherFuckers. So just because some girl somewhere wouldn't Fuck you, you Incel out and and take it out on great shows like this one? If you spent less time bitching and talking Shit about stuff people Fucking like and started being interesting and watching good stuff, you might get laid? Yeah you might Fucking get some pussy for once.

Oh what just because it has a couple of POC or they cut out some random minor character that nobody ever heard of, or some stupid plot element nobody cares about, you are going to Fucking not watch this and make this show Fucking fail? Fuck you! MotherFUCK YOU! You Fucking young Zoomer Fucks! Spoiler alert you Cocksuckers, women still hate you and aren't going to Fuck you!

You couldn't just watch the Fucking show and enjoy it? You had to talk Shit and just ruin it for everyone? I wish I could meet some of you Assholes in real life. I would Fucking feed you a 2-piece combo of justice. You wouldn't talk Shit anymore because I would Fucking sleep you! We won't forgive you or ever forget this MotherFuckers.

>>211493363 (OP)
This show had barely any resemblance to the books. It's worse than fan fiction.
It did literally everything it could do to alienate any sort of audience it could. What a shit show

>>211501851
>working for iWoT aka Red Eagle
And this bitch has the gall to act as a WoT superfan.

>>211501674
I watched all of season one. Literally nothing compelling. I didn't even bother downloading season 2. It was that bad.

>>211502926
2/10

>>211502926
>it's all the fans' fault!
How is hating your audience working out for you? Don't worry, there will be some other "diverse" production that will give you a paycheck...until you run that into the ground, too. It's all part of a dastardly MAGA plot called "Operation Get Out Of Their Way".

>>211501851
>lore fidelity
lol. lmao, even

>>211502381
>"mondragon"
>mandragoran
>"seda"
>sedai
hmmmmmmmmm

Thank the Creator! I will forever mourn the fact that my beloved Wheel of Time was horribly raped and desecrated by Amazon but at least the rape is finally over. Fucking finally!

Now the healing and forgetting can begin.

>>211494022
I would rather encase Rafe's body in cement and throw him into the ocean and then pretend he never existed.

>>211493532
>tryhard smokey-voice stern jeetmommy from the expanse
yawn!

>>211493363 (OP)
>Don't worry, Brandon, now you can get your own novels adapted! Just leave it to us!

>>211495943
Amazon gave her a shit ton of money of course she supported it.

>>211493363 (OP)
You say your crew is talented. The results say otherwise.

Why isn't Rand the protagonist? Honest question. What was the point?

>>211501851
She wrote winter dragon and has been linked with ree/cuendillar/iwot/whatever they shift to next since the jump. Literal plant, wouldn't be surprised if she were on the payroll when she started attending jordancons and started asserting that she'd read the books 50 times and vogueing for pictures

>>211504657
Normally I'd say that it was an example of a company stitching an IP to a script they had in order to get it out the door, but WoT is a bizarre outlier.
It's an absolute butchery that barely resembles the source material, but at the same time it's also got enough references baked in to show it was clearly made with WoT in mind. The fact these references are specifically made to highlight how much they've disregarded it is just another puzzle to the piece.

>>211501674
I watched about 10 minutes of episode 1 and had to stop because it made me so angry I couldn't contingue.

>>211493363 (OP)
>Woman going full wordswordswords to call it shit without being rude
It was shit.

I think it’s safe to say that The Wheel of Time is one of the queerest fantasy shows on TV right now. Unlike both House of the Dragon and The Rings of Power, this series–based on the bestselling books by Robert Jordan–has made a point of including queer characters and queer storylines, avoiding the tokenizing and stereotyping that are all too frequent in pop culture depictions of LGBTQ+ people. I would even go so far as to say that it has woven a deeply queer sensibility into the very essence of the show itself, building on the remarkably diverse milieu that Robert Jordan himself created and giving us a story and a secondary fantasy setting in which everyone can feel at home.

Last week I had the pleasure of speaking with Rafe Lee Judkins, the showrunner for The Wheel of Time, who has been open about his desire to make the show a welcoming one for all types of queer viewers and experiences, drawing out the queer resonances that have always been present in Jordan’s work. Whether it’s first-sisters, mothers like Lanfear and Moiraine, or the abundance of male bosoms on display, it’s safe to say that there’s something for every variety of queer viewer in this fantasy show.
https://omnivorous.substack.com/p/wheel-of-time-wednesday-special-interview

Sadly the people responsible for this will never be hunted down and tortured to death as they deserve.

>>211505069
Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement :)

>>211493532
Verin is the only one in a costume I can see coming out of the Wheel of Time. The costume designer just decided to use the Aes Sedai as an excuse to go nuts. There's no logic or consistency or realism to most of the outfits.

>>211505699
which is a real shame considering the author spent tens of thousands of pages describing bodice scrollwork

>>211497594
>>Scam artists renew the rights with ashcan pilot written by Sarah Nakamura airing in infomercial slot on the last day of use-or-lose expiration

Where the fuck did you steal this lie from?

>as chief editor she apparently slept with every popular author under Tor,
lol or this.

>>211493532
I took it you. Remember that

>>211505046
Rafe forgot to make the show entertaining.

>>211504556
Actually the reason there's no forward movement on any of his stuff for adaptation is because he's demanded enough creative control to prevent this nonsense from happening to me.

Funnily enough Daniel Greene suspects that S2 finale watch party Sanderson had was a way to skirt NDA and air some of his opinions.

>>211505930
> happening to me.
Nani?!

>>211505803
You don't believe Sarah Nakamura wrote Winter Dragon? She's credited for it. And what's your explanation for why authors like Glen Cook dedicated books to Harriet? She was just that amazing of an editor? Have you read wheel of time sarah?

>>211506025
That was a really curious typo. But I'll let you live that dream.

>>211505823
He probably found it entertaining for himself

>>211505790
He described lots of things in excruciating and repetitive detail but you'd never know it by how the show "adapted" the books.

>>211506058
I had to check that Winter Dragon thing, it was just too bullshit to believe. Turns out she was there too. And didn't tell Harriet I guess, because I know she only found out when somebody showed it on the coming soon channel. I'm just shocked this mole has been around that long. The fuck does she do for a living other than suck on to WoT projects?

And authors dedicate books to editors all the time. Especially good editors, which by all accounts she was very good at. She would have already been with Jordan for years by the time of Black Company or Ender's Game.

>>211493363 (OP)
>get hire to adapt a book into a show
>change everything in the book to appease your retarded ideology
>show ends up being shit
>"why were we cancelled??"
fucking faggot

>>211506174
People like to say his books can't be adapted into TV because of how long they are, but he favored such in depth description I bet even a generous script for EotW would have easily fit into 8 episodes.

1-2 pilot
3 Bearlon
4 Shadar Logoth
5 Running to Caemlyn
6 Caemlyn and The Ways
7 Fal Dara
8 The Eye

Some shit like that, I don't know

>>211506196
>which by all accounts she was very good at
Wheel of Time was edited solely by Harriet and is well-known for not being edited well. David Drake even claimed at Baen's Bar that the series was intentionally stretched out to aid the bottom line of the company which is the opposite of apt editing. I'm sure Glen Cook's gushing dedications to Harriet were totally on the level though. Look at how well Harriet has cared for Jim's IP since his death, she clearly cares a lot

>>211493363 (OP)
glad it got cancelled, it was taking a big fat pile of shit on the books.

just gotta give it a couple of years know until Amazon has milked book covers with stupid covers from the tv-show until it all fades into obscurity and we're back to only having the comfy books in the cultural zeitgeist

i'm sad we never got a good WoT show, and i doubt anyone will try again in my lifetime, but i'm happy this abortion of a tv-show didn't get to continue.

>>211506366
She doesn't really have any control over the TV show, other than that court case over Winter Dragon. You're acting like she had a real choice, other than tepid hope. She brought cupcakes one day, big whoop. It's not like she made a second career of saying it's great, like nearly ever WoT youtube type.

I doubt it was stretched out on purpose. I'm in a reread now, and as of Crown it's still progressing in logical stretches book by book. Crown is where problems set in, but they're only around in spurts. Crown and Path are slow, Winter's Heart picks up, Crossroads was just a mess, Knife was great. And so far Crown isn't really slow on a reread, and it ends with an important battle. I think the slog problems are overblown. Jordan just liked detail and building out the world. Fuck Harriet made him delete a fourth Two Rivers boy from Eye.

>>211493363 (OP)
I wish it was Amazon who picked up Witcher in 2019. Then it wouldn't survive season 3. Now I get to witness them raping Regis and and Bonhart.

>>211504915
it's a new turning of the wheel you see, with the exact same names, characters and borrowed plot points

>>211501851
Is it true she left her husband because she is enjoy8ng the good life now? Traveling, going to parties, red carpet events, etc.

>>211506528
She emitted an hilarious letter expressing dismay over the pilot's existence which showed that she had no idea what was going on, and also (considering she got sued) had no real idea about the rights REE held. Total incompetence at best, doesn't fucking care at worst. I agree with you that Jordan's writing is awesome at worst and the "slog" is overblown but Drake's claim that "plots for individual volumes were decided by very highly placed people in council with the author. Business was expanded to a complete volume where it might originally have been one of several strands in a volume, and the action in minor theaters (so to speak) was followed when the author might have been willing to elide it" rings true. Jordan's plan was six books dude

>>211498762
Oz? But it's mostly black people getting killed & black people sucking dicks.

>>211506852

Jordan's plan was three books and the guy at Tor knew him well enough to know that was shit coming from his mouth, so immediately changed it to six.

Even this six book pitch is a different plan than what we got. There was an earlier idea where Rand would fuck up dealing with the Bore so bad the Dark One would be freed like in the AoL for books on end. I guess the Dumai's Well's "shit gets real" plot beat would have been this instead.

I don't think it's that Harriet was incompetent, it's that who the fuck makes a stealth pilot just for the rights? Like when the fuck does that shit EVER happen? Some movies get churned out for this reason, but a pilot? It's never happened as far as I know. And a lot of writers do have a take the money and run opinion with adaptations, because they tend to be pretty shit. Especially for fantasy and sci-fi.

Honestly Drake sounds like he's talking shit too. Because what highly placed people? Fuck is he talking about? I don't see him talking the same shit about David Weber who devotes chunks of books to recapping events in the spin off books that should be in the main sequence. I think he just had problems with the slog stuff.

I think Jordan just started running really long, and he had the industry clout to let it happen by then. Crown of Swords really feels like the back half of Lord of Chaos. As if they were in one book in the planning, and it just got utterly out of hand. If anything happened with the editing, I bet Tor just let him run wild because they would have more to publish.


Also Harriet tried to talk Jordan out of the three women thing, but he insisted because once he had two girlfriends for a bit. I just think that's funny, I get the triple goddess connections.

>>211506315
So much of what bloats his later books is perspective creep. Book 1 is overwhelmingly focused on Rand, with only a few chapters for other people. As more and more characters get narrative focus the pace of the story slows down majorly. In the first like 4 books you could have weeks or months transpiring over the course of the novel, but in later books you could read 500 pages and not even a week has passed.

>>211507232
I'm 15 chapters into Crown now, and when we see Mat again he's making it seem like they've been in Ebou Dar about a month. Meanwhile Rand's plotline feels like it's been day by day. I think Jordan fumbled keeping the timelines straight. At least as far as presenting them to the reader in a logical flow. He tends to spend too many chapters with one POV. Heck, Lord of Chaos ends with Mogedien being freed, but chapters into Crown we flash back to before that with Egwene. It's a strange decision.

But yeah, POV creep was a huge issue. But frankly the series wouldn't be nearly as good without all of them. Wheel of Time is a mess. It has a lot of problems, but the problems are also aspects of its strengths. I'm not sure you can truly fix it, other than reordering chapters and tweaking lines to imply slightly different time flow.

>>211507464
I love Wheel of Time but I do feel like it needs an aggressive but loving editor to create a revised version of it. Editing through only subtraction is a delicate art but if any series could benefit from it I think WoT could. It just has so much fluff.

>>211507229
Harriet, chief editor, would be the likely suspect for the highly placed person in council with the author. Your position is that she is an excellent editor but Tor let him run wild? Doesn't that support Drake's claim? REE making an ashcan to renew the rights on the very last day it could be done is ultra shitty, but shouldn't Harriet have been aware of their ultra-shittiness given that one of the last things RJ ever posted online was about how scummy they were? Seems like total carelessness. I like your opinions outside of your Harriet apology

>>211507555
But the fluff is fun as shit too. Like Nyneave and Elayne being stuck at a goddamn circus of all things? Stuff like that should go in an edit, but honestly it's just a fun sequence. On a reread it's honestly pretty funny and charming.

Part of the issue is that past a point Jordan stopped writing books in a sequence, and, I guess between Fires of Heaven and Lord of Chaos, he just started to write the whole big beast. He let more and more plot threads end on cliffhangers for books, or just not end at all. Because it would all be one work eventually. But that one work wouldn't have a comprehensive edit because of this.

We know he never had the whole thing outlined like Sanderson would do. He also often had more sections of the ending more ironed out than Martin does. So he tended to let himself ramble on, knowing the beats to hit, but letting himself take however long to get there.

>>211507797
There's stuff in later books like Faile's kidnapping that just seems to go on endlessly

>>211493363 (OP)
Even Star Trek Discovery and Strange New World s got five seasons.

>>211507752
I just don't get how you would expect her to get inside word on the workings of a company that knows she doesn't like them. That doesn't make any sense at all. She's not super rich, she's not adept enough at the internet to spy on them via leaked production records or some shit. What did you expect?

Drake's claim is he was pressured into making the series longer. He makes it sound like they were hashing out volumes of outlines and breaking them down into more and more books.

My stance is that Tor would normally want tight volumes like the first four. I think the OPPOSITE happened as far as pressure was concerned. I think his publisher's at Tor who knew he ran long put less and less pressure on him to tighten up. The publisher sets the framework, the editor helps wrangle the writer to stick to it. I think she was told to not bother wrangling. I think Lord of Chaos and Crown of Swords were conceived of as one volume but instead of having him cut 40% of the work, they let him just cut it at Dumai's Wells. I think that's the kind of thing that happened. The man had a work ethic to crank out volumes, sales to support it, and by rights was young enough that he should still be with us. Letting him off the chain made nothing but logical financial sense, and fits with his reputation before. And again, all of this works with the series expanding amount of POVS causing things to go longer too.

>>211507852
Yeah I'll see how I feel about that when I get to it again. I'm so used to Crown being called a slog book, and I'm just not seeing that at all.

I bet the Faile plot was a problem where Jordan couldn't just skip it for a book to get everybody else ahead to where they needed to be. He used to do that. Perrin was just gone for a damn book. Egwene did almost nothing for Fires of Heaven, and most of Lord of Chaos. And he loves to write about characters stressing at camps and inns. I think these are problems created by his lack of outlining, and how he stopped writing for a volume, but instead for a whole series. Structural problems that couldn't be cleaned up until the first draft was done, but he was publishing books while still writing, so that's impossible.

>>211508013
She shouldn't be aware of the rights expiration? Her Bandersnatch Group (cute name, maybe they should employ some lawyers?) didn't know? How doesn't she care more? Seems her prime focus is Tor editing not an IP she was entrusted with which just seems to be a byproduct of her mission

>>211508013
>Drake's claim is he was pressured into making the series longer.

Yeah, fucking obviously tgis happened. Everything else you've written is autistic cope.

>>211508222
No.

>>211508201
She did sue them though. I forget her claim, but I can only assume this bullshit we're circling over is the point of her suit. It seems clear she was blindside. Which going by the fact that there was a LAWSUIT she didn't appreciate.

>>211506129
Which is fine if he can fund the series all by himself. But I'm pretty sure he used other people's money.

>>211508354
REE still hold the fucking rights, great job Harriet

>>211508401
She's not a lawyer, fuck do you expect her to do other than try?

>>211499507
We did, but the answer is so obvious that it might as well been rhetorical. The question inplyed by your question is why did they engage in such self destructive behavior in the first place Because they knew that their writing would be bad, and they intended to use the "diverse" cast as a shield.
See; too many examples to list

>>211508437
Not publicly support their perversion of the IP?
Be aware of rights expiration?
You know, things a legitimate widow might be interested in if she truly loved her husband and weren't just a corporate tool

>>211508482
You give them too much credit for evil planning. I think they're really just so far up their own asses they thought their ideas made sense and their writing was good.

>>211508540
She brought cupcakes when filming started and said good luck. That's not a huge thing, and we couldn't tell how bad the fuck ups were before we saw footage.

And okay, she knows the date on the calendar rights revert. So what? What do you expect her to do while the rights holders use the rights they hold?

>>211508611
>This morning brought startling news. A “pilot” for a Wheel of Time series, the "pilot" being called Winter Dragon, had appeared at 1:30 in the morning, East Coast time, on Fxx TV, a channel somewhere in the 700s (founded to concentrate on comedy, according to the Washington Post).

>It was made without my knowledge or cooperation. I never saw the script. No one associated with Bandersnatch Group, the successor-in-interest to James O. Rigney, was aware of this.

>Bandersnatch has an existing contract with Universal Pictures that grants television rights to them until this Wednesday, February 11 – at which point these rights revert to Bandersnatch.

>I see no mention of Universal in the “pilot”. Nor, I repeat, was Bandersnatch, or Robert Jordan’s estate, informed of this in any way.

>I am dumbfounded by this occurrence, and am taking steps to prevent its reoccurrence.

>Harriet P McDougal
>President and CEO
>Bandersnatch Group, Inc.
>February 9, 2015
Harriet can't be defended, sorry

>>211508698
You are incredibly thick. There's nothing to defend. She didn't know, so what? Why would she know what some studio is cranking out on the cheap? Specifically to hide from her too!

>>211493532
>0/16
How can you not pick ONE hot chick from the catalogue of women in the US? They have to be trying to avoid it.

>>211507852

Book 10 is absolutely absurd because nothing starts or ends in it. The entire book is a holding pattern, and the meta-changing paradigm-shattering event that was the climax of the previous book doesn't even begin to be addressed until later into the book.

Basically you have to experience 9-11 as a complete "book" or the narrative stops functioning entirely, it actually ceases to be a story of any kind. It's that outrageous.

>>211508777
Harriet "I am dumbfounded" McDougal was unaware of IP expiration or rightsholders' rights despite being the "CEO" of the group holding the rights to the Wheel of Time IP, and you think there's nothing to defend? It's just fine if she's totally unaware that others controlling the rights to this precious IP might just want to renew them before they revert could be a thing? Are you fucking kidding?

>>211508828
10 has some pretty good elayne bath scenes

>>211508142
For me the slog doesn't really set in until book 8. Books 9 and 10 are the nadir of the series, and 11 is where things begin to finally get moving again.

>>211508777
>She didn't know, so what?
that's exactly the problem though
retard

>>211499111
>simping for nigs

how embarrassing

>>211508910
How would she have found out? Are you kidding me? What are you blathering about? How do you expect a person to find out a thing that is being hidden from them? What goddamn magic do you envision here?

The real funny thing is why the FUCK didn't any of the "fans" like Nakamura talk to the fans that actually worked with Harriet. We know there were fans involved with edition/keeping things straight, whatever. And they also weren't involved.

>>211509036
You're blaming somebody that in essence got scammed for getting scammed. That doesn't make sense. How would she know? You haven't explained that other than yapping that she should. How would she know? A project that is being rushed and kept secret to keep the rights for extra years. How would she know?

>>211508970
Book 9 is weird because it has one of the biggest events in the series, but (As I recall anyway) it doesn't really feel like we're building up to it, and then the next book doesn't really react to it. It's all baffling. Winter's Heart felt like we were escaping the plate spinning, then we spun extra hard for no reason. It both does and doesn't feel like a weak entry.

>>211509077
>Bandersnatch Group gives REE WoT rights
>lol how could Harriet ever know the expiration dates
tiresome

>>211509224
book 9 does feature one of the biggest events in the series but book 10 is almost entirely others reacting to it

>>211509224
I had a similar ambivalence when I reread it. There was stuff happening in book 10 that made me want to say it wasn't a total waste of time, but on the other hand, so much of the book is just about treading water and waiting for the rest of the characters to catch up to the main plot.

>>211497594
>(who fucking hated Jackson's shit even though it was praised)
stop taking the word of Christopher. Chris is a faggot.

>>211509229
Not what I asked. How would she know they're making a secret project to fuck with the rights return?

>>211509138
i was nta, so calm down
>How would she know?
there were contracts anon

>>211509224
The build up to it is weird because most of the characters dont know or understand what is going to try and do. Rand, and the Forsaken are really the only ones with full knowledge of the situation.

>>211509362
Contracts she wasn't part of. Do you know how this works. She signs the rights away for X time, the rights holder can do what they want for X time. How would she know about any contracts made for Winter Dragon? They even avoided using Wheel of Time in the title on purpose. It was only figured out when character names were in the upcoming programming ticker.

>>211509324
>oh this scum fucking company which my husband literally made a blog post complaining about a second before he died is using the details of the contract we executed which he complained about as he was spitting up blood to enforce their rights
Golly what a surprise. you're right, Harriet should have imagined REE to be fair players and not analyzed anything about the situation at all and just let it lie until the rights reverted to her and then everything would be copacetic

>>211506315
Generally agree, I'd probably push the Ways into episode 7 with Fal Dara and leave the Blight+Eye+Epilogue to 8. Caemlyn should be comfy for the most part and act as a tension breaker until the climax when Rand is in front of Elaida. Which does mean Perrin and Egwene need to be reunited with Moiraine, Lan and Nynaeve by the end of episode 5. However their side-plot is rather lengthy.
>Episode 1: 20 minutes for the prologue, 5 minutes for Rand and Tam on the road, establish Rand as the protagonist, Fade on the horse to evoke the feelings of the Ringwraiths, then 40 minutes in Emond's Field, show not tell the differences between Mat and Perrin (rascal vs cautious), generally portray the villagers as well minded folk. Fain should be the halfway point with the episode running long at over 60 minutes for the return to the farm and Narg's attack.
>Episode 2: High tension as Rand drags Tam through the woods, It probably needs 10 minutes to cover everything including the sheep being found dead, the ramblings and the attempts at avoiding the Trollocs on the road. Arrive back to Emond's Field, Rand completely exhausted, meetings with Nynaeve and Egwene, getting to the inn should probably be about 7 minutes. Thom manipulating Master al'Vere into suggseting Moiraine should take time too, it shouldn't be cut from the script that there is a fear of Aes Sedai. Saidar mumbo jumbo, Rand sleeps, halfway point is Moiraine giving the legacy of Manatheren, which should be directed to mirror and contrast with Fain's doom and gloom from the previous episode. Then the preparations and actual flight to close out the last 15 or so minutes.
>Episode 3: Flight to Baerlon should take up the first third, relaxation after the flight the middle with Min marking the turning point from comfy back into tense and to serve as slight of hand for Rand running into Fain being followed by the attack on the inn. The introduction of the Whitecloaks is important too, as are the dreams.

>>211509485
>Contracts she wasn't part of.
she clearly thought she was part of any rights exploitation which is why she acted so retardly

>>211509470
I can kind of understand it, because Jordan from the very beginning of the series like showing how distorted the truth of great events became with time and distance. Seeing the fallout of this historic event was probably a key feature he wanted to explore during the story, but I think it suffered by being expanded to cover an entire book.

>>211507464
>It's a strange decision.
Even in EotW you had him playing around with how the narrative is presented chronologically with Rand flashing back within a flashback during the flight to Caemlyn. I didn't mind it but I do think an adaptation would benefit from either rigorous planning so that everything is depicted chronologically or having a little calendar like Persona in the corner so the audience understands that different characters are closer to Tarmon Gai'don than others.

>>211509503
Cool. She had reason not to like the company. How would she know? Nobody is answering that. How would she know that Winter Dragon was a Wheel of Time thing and not some cheap straight to DVD fantasy bullshit?

>>211509602
>>Even in EotW you had him playing around with how the narrative is presented chronologically with Rand flashing back within a flashback during the flight to Caemlyn
That part is still jarring to me and I've reread EotW several times. I think he stuck to mostly chronological storytelling because of the feedback about that jarring flashback sequence.

>>211509606
I just wonder how Harriet was this incredibly sharp chief editor but couldn't catch this? I mean holy shit she got stymied big time

>>211493363 (OP)
The amount of faggot hipsters here that want to discuss this show makes me want to leave this board. This place is reddit now.

>>211509676
What the fuck does being an editor have to do with catching shit a company is hiding from you in a totally different field? Being a book editor doesn't give you insight into shady fucks obscuring the nature of the project they're working on.

>>211509839
Hiding? The rights expiration dates were known to all companies involved. Why are you coddling Bandersnatch CEO Harriet?

>>211493532
>All Aes Sedai are beautiful and ageless in the books
>Hollywood deliberately cast ugly actresses for this abomination of the show
>Amazon did the same in RoP

>>211509584
Also a lot of the reaction to the event is lessened by it not really directly affecting women.

>>211509969
Agelessness is not beauty.

>>211504437
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpdd97teGhM
Seems legit.

>>211509555
How would you handle the darkness un Mat and him being a Thief coming from a shit family?

>>211509555
The funny thing is when looking that back over I thought "shit, they Ways should be crammed in with Fal Dara" for the same reasons you say.

Either way, the point stands that 8 episodes isn't all that unreasonable for EotW. Maybe 9. The idea that the books length would indicate an impossible run time is absurd. Yeah to make a five or seven season tv show you would have to cut stuff, but not being retards about what you film in the first place would help. And with the slog books in mind, I don't think the cuts would have to be as extreme as people think.

>>211509957
They were hiding production of Winter's Dragon. Are you dense? How are you not understanding that. She knew the date. They knew the date. They knew they didn't have a real project going so they filmed a short on the cheap using a false name.

>>211493363 (OP)
Daniel Henney casting is a sign of LQ. He's more mannequin than Keanu.

>>211510054
Initiate a daily meeting.
Bring up the script ideas there.
Mention that X suggested this, ask does anyone have any objections.
Fire anyone that does not object.

>>211509317
Chrissy was right imo

>>211510027
Indeed, Berelain mogged most of them and she was not Aes Sedai. Plus there was plenty of good old fashioned women's jealousy among the Aes Sedai concerning looks and fashion etc.

>>211510027
A lot of them are not described as beautiful at all.
And the ones that are described as attractive are described it in all sorts of different ways. Round and motherly, curvy, pleasantly plump, lithe and graceful, whatever. Point being Jordan liked ladies of all kinds and didn't describe them as ugly unless that was the point.

How do you give Perrin motivation and making him against violence in the first season without fridging his wife?

>>211510138
>Are you dense?
Harriet most certainly is, from the generous interpretation, to not understand that a company who holds the rights to WoT might hurr durr y'know try to keep them before they expire

>>211510284
Rafe it's too late.

>>211510284
by following the actual story and the events that set that up for him, instead of doing dumb shit like giving him a wife in the beginning etc.

>>211510285
Cool. Since you're an expert in Hollywood corporate IP law, what should she have done?

>>211510075
Yeah, just do due diligence and prepare in advance of filming like Jackson did for LotR. If I was given unlimited control, I'd probably spend two years preparing sets for EotW and TGH then move onto preparing sets for TDR and TSR while filming EotW. Once that initial investment in sets is down (Emond's Field, Caemlyn, Tar Valon, Cairhien, Tear), you'd be set for most of the adaptation. There'd be a few new locations required later too but I would wager with Mat that at least 30% of the story is set in those locations.

>>211510399
The first thing Harriet might have done would be to care at all.

>>211510387
All you need to add is a scene of him traumatized during the attack, or a conversation with Rand on the road about how he's not sure he could ever use a sword like Rand has. A good show should add more scenes showing that these kids really are friends. We're told it often enough in the books, but seeing it would be a help.

Personally I wanted to see the full argument between Rand and Mat abut Mat leading armies (At the end of Fires of Heaven) I'm sure it devolved into arguing that Mat owes him for that time Mat talked him into stealing that brandy that Nyneave switched them for. Fate of the world, old kid arguments. Perfect way to show that bond.

>>211510499
Okay so you really have no goddamn idea what you're bitching about. You could have just said that earlier

>>211510449
or tents in fields. A lot is set in tents in fields. Which shouldn't be too hard.

It would help if anybody knew how to redress a set. It was painfully obvious Shadar Logoth was Tar Valon.

stop being so defensive harriet

>>211509317
It’s funny that the downfall of the ip of a book series for children is due to the protectors of this work neglecting their own kids

>>211510563
You're asking what Bandersnatch Group could have done to prevent REE from making an ashcan pilot to renew their rights at the last minute, which is a stupid question. The fact that Harriet was totally unaware of the rights expiration shows that she isn't a serious person as far as the Wheel of Time IP rights are concerned, but she's the main person! It's despicable. REE pulled the wool over her eyes, but it was only possible because she just didn't fucking care enough - and this is her husband's IP at stake. The husband she didn't reproduce with, btw

>>211510504
Thats good point, but there just wasnt time for any real character building like that. They had to take up all the time with Rand/Egwene sex scenes, Women's Circle nonsense, gay Warder scenes etca

>>211510715
Who said she was unaware of the date?

>>211510630
30% in the finest cities crafted by Ogier stonemasons, 30% in tents in fields including Valan Luca's greatest tent that the world has ever seen, 30% in other fine locations such as Ebou Dar and the Three-Fold Land and 10% in Tel'aran'rhiod where skirts are effortlessly smoothed.

>>211493363 (OP)
>on a date
>it's going well
>girl says i'm so much fun she wants to watch her favourite show with me
>it's Wheel of Time
>she laments it was cancelled

What am I in for, bros?

>>211510796
Her own letter ("dumbfounded") which is visible above

>>211510835
Nowhere in that letter does it say she doesn't know the date. It says she didn't know about the pilot. I think you read it wrong.

I hate to say it but it's the same reason Y: The Last Man couldn't have a successful adaptation- because it's the current year, and current year takes on gender have ruined any work that analyzes the differences between the sexes.

>>211510797
And a few percent in the American Southwest.

>>211510818
Try to get her to watch the X-files.
bitches love the X-files, and it's actually good

>>211510818
Depends on what she liked about the show. I've seen a lot of people go from the show to the books and be amazed at how badly it was butchered. Hopefully she's not in love with any show only ideas.

>>211510906
What's the difference? She's dumbfounded that the rightsholders made an assertion of rights when the rights expired -- how does that make sense?
>oh i was aware of the date just din't know theyd actually do nuffin lawl

>Showrunners could've went with Jordan's wishes and cast some beautiful Hollywood starlets
>LOTR had great casting

>>211510818
BDSM, but not the fun Jordan kind.

he was on the wrong side of history
simple as

>>211510630
I think the most challenging setting would probably be the Blight. I can't think of a way to do it without CGI everywhere.

Are the books worth reading? There's so fucking many of them and it's so long

>>211511079
Scrubland in the fall would work for most of it. And a few CGI bits of weird.

There's no need for the worst Dagobah set I've ever seen.

>>211510933
WoT's overall message was that men and women were complimentary and need one another. There's lots of bickering between the sexes in WoT, lots of men disparaging women and women disparaging men, but this is all to show that the greatest triumphs come from harmony between the sexes and a mutual fulfillment of complimentary roles.

So of course this is utterly unacceptable in modern ideological climate. Of course they will change this and shred Jordan's message into confetti to ensure it never sees the light of day on TV.

>>211511079
while it wouldnt end up being book accurate, you could use a vast area of of nothing like the salt flats for the Blight

>>211511009
You don't even really have a point anymore, do you?

She's pointing out their rights were about to expire. And that this was made to extend them. Jesus.

>>211511079
The Blight should absolutely be doable with standard effects.

>>211511158
>>Scrubland in the fall would work for most of it.
That's kind of what I imagined, but then I read about how most of the Blight is dense jungle.

>>211511106
I love them, but they are slow paced at times. And because Jordan used limited third person point of views, you end up wanting to smack half the characters half the time. But I also love them all.

Buy Eye of the World, give it a try.

>>211511217
She issued that message after Winter Dragon aired, and the message itself says that she was clueless about everything. Then she was sued and then REE became exec producers of Amazon's WoT. Resolve that any way you like, pal

>>211511106
Yes, absolutely. If you've watched the show, just realize you don't really know anything about the series besides a few characters' names. Everything else is different.

>>211511194
and to further your point the books go to great lengths to demonstrate that lines of thinking like "Women are always right" are so terrible they end up fucking up the world.

>>211511194
I love that bit when Perrin and Faile first get to Emond's Field and the women give Faile advice on dealing with men, and later the men give Perrin advice on dealing with women. And it's the same damn advice.

Really Perrin just needed Mat or Rand there. They were much better with women then him.

>>211511301
Cool. You don't have a single point and misread her letter. You are a magical dumb unicorn.

>>211493532
more like who stole my wheels of time

>>211511342
It's still crazy to me how many people get filtered by this. Female Aes Sedai had sole stewardship of humanity for thousands of years and look what became of it. Jordan introduces Aes Sedai as figures of awe and mystery then spends several books gradually stripping them of all dignity until they're revealed as nothing more than spiteful, hide-bound, jealous bitches. Well, most of them, anyway. A few good apples here and there, but unfortunately tethered to an incurably conservative institution which has run humanity into the ground over 3000 years due to being riven with corruption it is to intransigent to fight.

>>211511342
>>211511424
>"Harriet is always right"

>>211511106
Overall they are great. They be cliche is some spots, but thats sorta common with fantasy in general. Given the length, there are some low spots, but the high spots are so fucking good you wont care. One thing that hangs people up is the Jordan is insanely descriptive, which contributes to the length. However, the trade off for that is a world so detailed that it almost becomes a character itself.

>>211511365
It's a shame we'll never get Mat's and Tuon's adventures to see if Mat could eventually fix her or if lost the hardest out of the three when it came to love interests.

>>211493363 (OP)
>beloved by fans and critics
apparently not

>>211511106
Give it a try. I would say try to get to the end of book 1 at least. Book 1 is kind of odd in that it doesn't really represent what the rest of the story is like. It introduces characters, places, concepts, and contains a shit ton of foreshadowing that you're not going to be able to parse as a first time reader, but the end of the book contains the big series hook that reveals the actual narrative, which begins in book 2.

>>211511481
One huge reason I don't mind the slow books is just because by that point I liked spending time on that world. It's nice to be in Cairhien, Tear, Caemlyn, wherever. I like the world. It feels fleshed out in a way very few fantasy works do. And it's not overly dark as a place to live. Outside of the evil entity from beyond space time, but ya know.

>>211511460
Ishamael nudging people like Artur Hawkwing didn't help. But the Aes Sedai were shit at their jobs. Hell, their tower is literally ivory. The point Jordan was making wasn't subtle. Rand consciously tried to make the Black Tower an inversion of that. To keep the Asha'man connected.

>>211500235
black show

>>211507039
>Oz
literally every race in the prison gets sucked and fucked and raped and burned, besides the Irishman for some reason he gets away with everything Scott free

>>211511460
The hubris is so deep with the Aes Sedai that a good portion of them completely disregard the events happening in the world. They try to maintain things as they have been (for 3000 years or so) despite a literal apocalypse happening before their very eyes.

The show being cancelled I assume means no more audiobooks from Rosamund Pike? I was quite enjoying her take.

>>211511513
I honestly think after a series of pratfalls and wheeling and dealing Mat would have provoked a bold change. I can't see him standing the Damane thing long. Especially when he can look at their faces and know any could be his sister.

We know only two things about the outrigger books. Mat in a gutter having lost everything, and Perrin on a boat upset he has to kill a friend.

I also imagine Rand getting involved and somehow being a trickster figure that helps out. Really I imagine these books would have been the protracted epilogue this series really needed.

What could have been.

>>211511789
From what I understand that was a separate contract. We'll see though. I mean was she just doing that to support the show? We'll see.

I'm doing Kramer and Reading now, they're pretty good. A languid pacing I enjoy. Kramer's Min is terrible though.

>>211511875
Reading is fucking awful and can't get anything right. Kramer carries the duo

>>211493532
>Books are about the complementary nature of men and women
>Series is about how women are everything and men take from them

>>211511802
>Especially when he can look at their faces and know any could be his sister.
Thanks for reminding me, I reread the series recently and she didn't show up in the Sanderson books. We never actually got her interacting directly with Mat, did we?

>>211497855
Was it really?

>>211511958
Apparently they did the books out of order, so her worst offenses are from the start of her work on the series. Kramer's great, but sometimes I can hear him sighing during the languid passages. I mean they should be languid, we're describing gently rolling hills. He goes a hair too far though.

>>211501269
>it's real
>>211505046
>drawing out the queer resonances that have always been present in Jordan’s work
Were they? Look, I read the books as a kid so it's possible that stuff might have gone over my head if it was there, but apart from perhaps slight lesbianism/bi leanings in some of the women, it mostly seemed like straight "resonances". I'd go so far as to say, if I'm recalling correctly, that compared to the rest of high fantasy I've read WoT might be among the least "queer".

>>211511752
>They try to maintain things as they have been (for 3000 years or so) despite a literal apocalypse happening before their very eyes.
The world kept on changing despite them, and the Aes Sedai lost more and more over time, so that they became essentially a cult worshiping their rules, rules that they didn't even understand or know the origins of anymore, and could not be challenged because they were held as dogma.

>>211512000
used to be

>>211511971
No, she and Mat never meet directly. I think she only gets mentioned briefly, as the Novices are being held back during the Last Battle. Healing? But battlefield Healing? I forget exactly.

That's not a Sanderson only problem. A lot of characters just don't meet, or meet as often, as you would want.

>>211512000
Before the tv series blew it up, yeah. Oh yeah. I mean they were both giants, but WoT was winning in sales hands down.

>>211512000
Absolutely, yes, back during its peak WoT was the biggest name in epic fantasy. GRRM was fairly popular but not on the level of Jordan. Obviously the GoT TV series changed this.

>>211512133
I also thought A Game of Thrones as a title MAY have been a tip of the hat to the Wheel of Times Game of Houses.

>>211512096
There are a few Aes Sedai and others that are very likely gay. Things that will go over your head as a kid. But not at all to the level Judkins put in the show.

>>211512216
Eh, there's lots of that "Great Game" stuff in fantasy, I'm not sure Jordan coined the phrase. GRRM's more obvious influence in GoT was Tad Williams, and he's not shy about crediting him either.

>>211512096
I would say there's some obvious inferences to be made about "pillow friends" being lesbians or at least bisexual, but you are correct in that the bulk of the series is focused on heterosexual relationships.

>>211512402
Pillow friends are LUGs, obv

>>211512133
Man, I miss when fantasy covers were real illustrations and not photoshop slop.

>>211512276
I agree. I was cagey for a reason. But it's not impossible. (Some minor house is named after Jordan in ASoIaF, I just forget how he fantasied up Jordan. House Jordyn? You get the idea.)

>>211512133
>>211512152
>>211512180
Thanks anons, I had no idea. I think GoT is slightly more accessible to the normie, but maybe the TV show is coloring my opinion and high fantasy readers who might have been the demo for both before the GOT show aren't normies.

>>211512535
>"don't judge a book by its cover"
All of my childhood favorites were picked via cover

>>211512564
Wheel of Time starts with very Tolkien like quests. Familiar stuff to D&D fans. It evolves out into a Game of Thrones like setting, with multiple nations competing. But Jordan grows this so slowly it's hard to say where the shift truly happens. So it's pretty darn accessible overall.

>>211512562
https://grrm.livejournal.com/147038.html

>>211512604
Same lol. I had no real taste though as a kid. I read tons of stuff that I revisited as an adult and couldn't finish it. But I do miss that childish enthusiasm to just dive into books without caring about anything. I picked up multiple series by reading like book 4 or book 2 first. I read Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets before I read Sorcerer's Stone. Still enjoyed them all.

>>211512564
>I think GoT is slightly more accessible to the normie
GoT got exceedingly normie-friendly as it progressed.

You would not BELIEVE the number of '100 IQ water-cooler conversations' in 2016/2017 where you'd hear "Yeah the show is ok at first but gets REALLY good starting in season 5"and as a bookfag it pained me to hear this frequent opinion.

>>211512535
Get ready for AI covers

>>211512564
>I think GoT is slightly more accessible to the normie,
It definitely is. GRRM excelled in character writing. The setting he created is what fascinated me when I picked up A Song of Ice and Fire in high school, but his characters are what made me come back to his books again and again. And that translated well to television. The show was hard-carried by its fantastic drama and character acting. At least in the early seasons. Show not surprisingly went to complete shit in season 5 when they ran out of book dialogue to adapt to screen.

>>211512738
I'm already well braced for it given how many self-published web novels I'm reading. At the very least it won't be a variation on "thing superimposed over abstract background" or "model posed in front of abstract background".

>>211512562
There's two branches of House Vance for Jack Vance
There's House Peake for Mervyn Peake
Three-Finger Hobb and Hobb the Hewer are named for Robin Hobb
The scene right before Jon Snow's death is a Giant killing a knight with a Dallas Cowboys emblem on his shield because of a bet he had with a friend when the Cowboys lost to the Giants

>>211512564
>>211512635
>>211512706
>>211512775
GoT is not also strongly anchored by a magic system, which contributes to it being more accessible.

That remind me of the fantasy character tournament years ago, and if I remember right the finals were Jamie Lannister and Rand al Thor. That was really unfair to Jamie, lol.

Do they ever explain in the books in more detail why men were so arrogant in thinking they could seal away evil forever and how the women had to pick up the pieces if the world after the men fucked up?

>>211512564
GoT has great human drama in it that made it easier for normalfags to get into. They love it for the scenes where two people are talking in a building. Fantasy fans loved ASoIaF for the sweeping scale of its setting, the mysteries at the heart of it, the prophecies, the creepiness of the magic. And yes, some of the characters, like Tyrion, are also fan favorites. But normalfags only swallow all that fantasy shit if its mixed in with what they believe is a hard hitting period drama.

I can't tell you how many times I've heard people espouse the claim "GoT is low fantasy" or talking about how the show is "historically accurate" it boggles the mind how these people parse the fantasy out of the story entirely, but the show was set up to do that.

>>211512701
I read Robert Asprin's Myth series completely out of order because one had a cool cover and the rest just weren't available. Same with spellsinger and a bunch of d&d books

>>211513010
0/10
Aes Sedai hands typed this post

>>211493363 (OP)
>Why was THE WHEEL OF TIME canceled?
it was sued by WHEEL, OF, FORTUNE!!

>>211513058
I think it's a common thing, for children to just not care about continuity or anything. Maybe that's why comic books were so successful back when they mainly sold to children. They didn't care about "where do I start?" cause they just pick up a comic and read.

>>211512989
>That remind me of the fantasy character tournament years ago, and if I remember right the finals were Jamie Lannister and Rand al Thor. That was really unfair to Jamie, lol.
Martin went all out in his fanfiction to get Jaime the win.

>>211512989
Even if Rand went easy on him and didn't use the Power he'd still probably win. Even if he was one handed while doing it, and Jaime got to keep his hand.

>>211513283
Huh now that you point that out, they did both lose their dominant hand. Rand was considerably less hampered by this though. I still remember that scene in Far Madding where he's ambushed by the rogue Asha'man who think they can kill him cause he can't use the One Power there and doesn't have his sword, and he fucking kills them barehanded and the women who bonded him didn't even notice because his heart rate never went up while he did it.

>>211513471
I can't even imagine show-Rand doing anything like this.

It's extremely disturbing how hyper-focused some of you are about disparaging creators such as Sarah Nakamura, Harriet McDougal, Maria Simons, etc. It's pretty obvious what's going on. Let's take a step back and think before we issue harmful posts.

>>211513471
Not to "actually" you, but you combined two separate scenes in different books. In Far Madding, he has his sword that is supposed to wired shut but isnt. Where he uses his bare hands is when he captured and they keep him in a box. In fact, he kills a warder with his bare hands.

>>211513635
He did kill one of the Asha'man barehanded. He stopped him from drawing his sword then crushed his throat. But then he had the dead Asha'man's sword

>>211513471
Rand was right handed and lost his left.

>>211493532
it's never indians and mexicans and asians

always blacks

>>211512706
GoT literally ends episode 1 with a double "Oh Shit" moment with the Cersei Jaime reveal followed by what happens to Bran. In literally the same scene. Normies never deserved this show.

>>211514466
>The first few seasons are pretty boring, it's just people standing in rooms talking except for a few cool battles. The action picks up a lot in the later seasons, it's so good!

>>211511789
>>211511958
some autist needs to splice karmer and pike into one audiobook series.

>>211512706
>You would not BELIEVE the number of '100 IQ water-cooler conversations' in 2016/2017 where you'd hear "Yeah the show is ok at first but gets REALLY good starting in season 5"and as a bookfag it pained me to hear this frequent opinion.
>>211514646
Bullshit. Show only fans and normies always say that seasons 1-3 were great and the show went to shit after them.

>>211493363 (OP)
Only clowns were watching it. It didn't follow the books at all.

>>211515211
What can I say? This is literally my experience working at an internship with a bunch of normies in 2016.

>Show only fans and normies always say that seasons 1-3 were great and the show went to shit after them.
They say that NOW. When the show was still airing, every season was greater than the last to the average showfag. It was only bookfags who complained back then. People loved season 7 when it aired. They only retroactively started to hate seasons 5-7 a year or two after season 8 aired.

>>211493532
Gay men should never be in positions of power, they HATE women and intentionally cast uggos because of their subconscious envy of the female form

>>211511013
this casting fucking sucks too