The problem with those subtle condemnations of criminals is the fact that half of the population is below the average IQ - you end up with tens of millions of people unironically cheering for the villain.
Your condemnation ends up being a glorification.

>>211597584 (OP)
Vros im channeling tony

>YOU CAN'T LIKE THE CHARACTERS YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO HATE THEM
fuck off, redditor. i've been sopranomaxxxing for 20 years

>>211597680
>i've been sopranomaxxxing for 20 years
very based. Fuck op, he's a fag, as usual.

There are no villains in life. Life is just a string of random mundane events. There are only villains in stories. But they're still just only stories. And stories are for children.
This is what the The Sopranos taught me.

>>211597584 (OP)
The Sopranos goes out of its way to show the characters being stupid, petty, and outright evil mant times, but I don't think they ever actually condemn them. Chase strikes me as too cynical to actually do that.

>>211597956
>Nobody ever comes right out and says, "the characters on the sopranos are wicked, brutal crooks and their actions should be condemned," so that means the show isnt condemning them

>>211597956
He leaves it to the viewers to make their own opinion.
Sadly, half of them are retards and don't come to the right conclusions because characters are cool, rich and fucking hot women.

Smart people don't need the show to know what's right or wrong - therefore it's just entertainment to. them.
But dumb people are easily impressionable and if you don't tell them exactly what you're going for they're likely to understand it the opposite way based on their basic impulses.

Question is - do artist have social responsibility or not?
Can they be judged for their art doing harm to the society (even if it wasn't their intention).

>>211597584 (OP)
>>211597680
>>211597925
>>211597956
I hated them from the start being evil Mafia and hated Walt being a drug dealer
Difference is unlike the evil main characters in the Wire and the Shield they didn't try to justify them somehow as necessary or needed they just gave you their sympathetic motivations and let you watch them rot

No well but he saved kidnapped kid by being corrupt, no well he just a product of da hood tryna make it out, and I dropped both those shows for trying to sell me villains as heroes. Sopranos and Breaking Bad are just selling sympathetic devils.

the sopranos exists to undo what the godfather series did for the mafia, to deromanticize organized crime and establish that no one really succeeds when they’re career criminals. Then at the same time gives historical precedent for why organized crime can be necessary.

>>211598692
You’re autistic.

>>211597584 (OP)
Get fucked, midwit. There's nothing wrong with cheering for a villainous fictitious character, especially one with strong, sometimes relatable, morales. The strength in the show is making complex, flawed, multilayered characters that you can easily hate one moment, then go right back to loving them.

Your criticism is not only lazy, but also condensing, offensive and classist. You sound like a leftie closeted racist that believes that the poor and the "minorities" need saving from themselves.

>>211598880
>sometimes relatable, morales
Like what?
Hating black people and calling them criminals despite being a despicable criminal himself.

>>211598822
>Then at the same time gives historical precedent for why organized crime can be necessary.
did it do that?

>>211598860
kill yourself

>>211599620
Yeah. Meadow’s little history lesson about the mafia right before one guido uses another guido’s face to shatter a glass bottle over nothing.

Carmela: you cheated on me with that one legged woman!? maybe you're a fag ever think of that?

>>211599802
No, you. While law should be informed by morality, morality should never be informed by law.

>>211599565
I mean, let's be real here, he has a point when it comes to modern black culture. But really, friendship, family, providing in the way that he knows best, putting others before himself when it comes to stress and mental health, trying to keep it together while running a difficult business; these are all relatable to a lot of people and family and friends are a core value for many people.

>>211602035
To be fair, black culture is in shambles because of a bad attempt at copying mafia culture

>>211598880
>Get fucked, midwit. There's nothing wrong with cheering for a villainous fictitious character, especially one with strong, sometimes relatable, morales. The strength in the show is making complex, flawed, multilayered characters that you can easily hate one moment, then go right back to loving them.

>>211597584 (OP)
Same with "antiwar" movies. People just can't help themselves not feeling camaraderie with the characters no matter how many gooks they roast alive or whatever.