Call me a pleb or whatever but only now have I read LOTR and holy fuck has Peter Jackson butchered Two Towers and Return of the King beyond belief. As far as the movies I never liked them as much as Fellowship but I kind of assumed that was tied to the source material, and though I still think the FOTR book is a bit better than TT and ROTK, the quality drop is nowhere near as egregious.
How is/was there not more of an uproar about how hard Peter Jackson took a dump on the source material? How are those movies still so well regarded? They are like completely different stories for fuck sake. What caused things to go so wrong when so much went right with Fellowship? I thought the bulk of the 3 movies were even planned and shot simultaneously/back to back so there's no reason for the scripts to be of such different quality.

Sorry had to vent I know I'm late to the party but I feel disgusted and beyond frustrated.

I think he got too into the fight scenes so he didn't give much thought(and couldn't use much screentime) for the actual story

>>211831827 (OP)
Welcome to hell, OP. I always just assumed Jackson was an illiterate hack who either hated the books or never read them. Maybe there's more to it, but I can't be bothered to find out.
Glad you finally read (and I assume enjoyed) the books. If you haven't already, I also recommend reading The Silmarillion. A very different vibe, but good stuff.
Fuck Peter Jackson and fuck Hollywood.

Fellowship was the worst adaptation of the three. They literally cut out half the book.

>>211831827 (OP)
There's a masturbatory quality there in the TT and ROTK that isn't present in Fellowship. Like Jackson got all those awards and started huffing his own shit

>>211831827 (OP)
monster movie director

>>211831827 (OP)
>How are those movies still so well regarded?
It was like the first planned trilogy on the big screen. Other movies have a complete story and if they are successful they invent sequels to keep milking their success. Fellowship is not a complete story, the saga does need parts 2 and 3 for better or worst.

>Star Wars
Star Wars(1977) is very much a stand alone movie

>>211832418
Lmao

.

>>211834098
Bravo hackson

Overall they were worse than the books, but I'd argue his versions of Theoden and Eowyn are much more compelling than the books'.

ROTK is still my favorite. Cope and seethe

>>211831827 (OP)
only two towers? You didnt notice the giant gap in the beginning where frodo lives in his house for a year, sells it and then slowly goes to travel across the woods compare to the movie where he basically teleports to bree in two minutes?

>>211831827 (OP)
it is the best adaptation of the book it will ever get. Have you seen the other ones?

the story was super rushed and people still whined about the ending being too slow. Imagine if they kept it faithful.

>>211831827 (OP)
Since when i hit 25 i only rewatch Fellowship.
Two Towers and especially Return became too Hollywood, the sense of wonder and mystery and magic mostly disappeared.

>>211836535
Fellowship extended is a 3:50 hour movie. There's only so much they could do

Most people will never read a book in their lives. We will see the majority become illiterate again in our lifetime.

>>211831827 (OP)
>They are like completely different stories
As they should be. What's the point of a 1:1 adaptation? If you want the books as written by Tolkien, read the books. Meanwhile I can enjoy both the books and the movies, because I can see they are two different works of art.

>>211831827 (OP)
You're a pleb or whatever

>>211832277
the fighting is what matters most about the story... if anything there wasn't enough fighting.
a bunch of walking, talking, waiting, baiting.... just fight more.

>>211837112
what artistic reason there was for galadriel to steal gendalf and celeborn's lines in the movie?

>Star Wars prequel trilogy revolutionized digital film technology and entirely digital characters
>LOTR trilogy revolutionizes CGI crowds/armies
>Harry Potter films revolutionized ____?

>>211831827 (OP)
You're not naming a single example of said butchery

>>211837286
Porn and smut.

nah. the quality dip is the same in the books. the books get more and more boring and repetitive

bookfags simply lie to feel superior on the internet

>>211831827 (OP)
I remember getting bored of the second and third movie, Gollum, Sam and Frodo are fun.

>>211837366
i think hobbit is a perfect book in terms of pacing

>>211837317
>no grey company
>no gathering of Gondor's forces
leading to
>invincible ghost army at Pelennor Fields
Also:
>elves at Helm's Deep
>crazy Denethor
>Gondorians being jobbers (in full plate for some reason)
>Frodo tells Sam to go home

>>211832277
Film is a visual medium so it's good it plays to it's strengths. written battles are not engaging

>>211837286
nepotism

>>211831827 (OP)
It worked for the movie, so get over it

>>211836969
This. I will occasionally rewatch Fellowship. I doubt I would ever sit through the entirety of Two Towers or Return of the King.

>tfw no cartoon saloon Roverandom movie

>tfw no scouring of the shire ever ever

>>211836535
My biggest issue with fotr is Saruman wilfully being Sauron's lackey. The whole point should be to covet the ring for yourself

>>211837286
Iconic sets and locations. You're full of it if you think any set in LOTR is as memorable as Hogwarts.

>>211837563
Not to mention psycho Faramir dragging the hobbits to Osgiliath...

>>211836729
Kek, is this the one with orcs singing to a jazzy tune like a bunch of drugged out hippies?

>>211838470
shame, as it's perhaps the most relevant to the present day

This critique also applies to the book but I really hate how ridiculously anachronistic the shire feels compared to the rest of the world.

>>211838470
LotRO will get to it someday, they have already covered Aragorn and Arwen wedding.
>200 lvl Bree-land brigands

>>211839262
>I really hate how ridiculously anachronistic the shire feels compared to the rest of the world

Tolkien literally despised Industralisation and perhaps capitalism as well

>>211831827 (OP)
>How is/was there not more of an uproar about how hard Peter Jackson took a dump on the source material?
There was in the proper Tolkien fanbase. The general assessment today is that these are very well made and highly entertaining action movies, but lacking in spirit.

>>211837112
What's the artistry behind turning Gimli into a burping, farting retard?

>>211839525
No he didn't. He talked at length about this. He admired engineering and how industrialization improved life in general, but he despised the erasure of culture in the name of "progress".

Hey, still not as bad as what they did to the Hobbit. Now that is criminal

>>211839957
I always disliked the rhetoric of "this new thing is basically unwatchable dogshit, so now the previous thing which was also retarded is actually great". Disney Star Wars is fucking garbage, but that doesn't make the prequels good. Both suck, just one sucks even more than the other.

>>211840061
The prequels aren't bad just because the original trilogy was good

>>211832340
The Silmarillion is a lore slop
>>211836535
that's one of the dumbest part in the book
>>211838470
no one gives a fuck about Shire

anon, go back to /lit/, make a thread, maybe whine about /GRRM/

>>211840175
>just because
True, they are bad for many other reasons

>>211840265
Brown.

>lore slop
Good buzzword.
Will use it in the next fromsoft thread.

>>211831827 (OP)
Based. I say this shit all the time and I get blank stares in return

>>211831827 (OP)
Don't look up how many books the average adult in the US reads per year.

>>211840366
dark souls fan base and their obsession with lore plagues modern media to this day.
Many use lore as a vehicle for writing, but none of them are good writers.
Before such people wrote their fanfics on special containment websites, now their autism is seen everywhere. It's awful.

Tolkien is a hack. "And then gollum slipped and fell down lol". I get wanting to make a point that no one, not even Frodo, could possibly have the will to destroy the ring but at the end of the day you can't make the resolution of your story hinge on an accident.

>>211831827 (OP)
If you want to see a film butcher the book material, watch the Anna Karenina movie with Keira Knightley and Jude law. And mind you, they butchered what is widely considered the best novel ever written.
Tolkien nerds are happy to just crouch down and lick the hand that feeds them.

Christopher was right all along

>>211831827 (OP)
>How is/was there not more of an uproar about how hard Peter Jackson took a dump on the source material?

There was a huge uproar. If you think you're assmad and butthurt I saw faggots with their assholes more torn than yours over it. Faggots who still cope and seethe to this day about Tom Bombadil being cut and a dozen other changes.

>>211837286
>Harry Potter films revolutionized ____?
slice of life kino

I can excuse no Bombadil but the scouring of the shire is tremendously important and it's absence proves they missed the entire point of the overarching narrative

>Denethor is a wacky crazy psychopath who hates his son Faramir for literally no reason
>a substantial amount of time is dedicated to this subplot that has nothing to do with anything
RotK is by far the worst of the three movies. Everyone remembers the Ride of the Rohirrim, which is definitely great, but there is so much stupid shit in this part.

>>211842620
dude the cherry tomato juice dripping down his chin is like, him drinking the blood of his son n sheit

>>211831827 (OP)
>How is/was there not more of an uproar
if you were actually around back then you would know that the first two movies came out before 4chan even existed. stop LARPing.

When I was 10 the scene where Legolas kills the giant elephant was my favorite part of the entire trilogy

But Sam carrying Frodo while the music swells! Le manly tears!

>>211843959
It's one of the few great moments of Rotk, no need to ridicule it

>>211837563
>Pippin being a retard
>Gimli being a retard
>Arwen fanfic

>>211843024
Most kids felt like that but few have the guts to admit it now

>not one person in the thread is actually saying the main differences between the books and movies

>>211845798
>Pls spoonfeed me so I don't have to read!

>>211846069
sure let me read 3 books and then come back here before this thread goes to page 10 in 5 minutes

>>211832424
to be fair, shit is actually very easy to huff despite what you otherwise might expect

That fake tension plot of Aragon falling down the cliff is eyeroll inducing

>>211837035
>become
media literacy is already borderline extinct. Actual literacy is on its way out as we speak anon

>Uhhhh he didn't talk about Chapter 24 in the book, so he took a shit on the material
How do we solve the autism problem?

>>211839761
Gimli was repurposed for the younger audience members. To help not only simplify story beats so they understand them ("A MINE. A MINE!") but also to add levity to what is otherwise quite a frightening tale at times. This was clearly an effective choice as the films have maintained enormous popularity over the decades since their release. A similar thing happened with Legolas where his character was re-tooled to appeal directly to the potential female audience members, yet again helping boost both the commercial success of the films as well their general longevity.

>>211834098
If the ghosts just forcespooked everyone this wouldn't be an even remotely legitimate complaint, it is almost the definition of seething for seething's sake.. not nearly as an egregious an oversight as the giant eagles

>>211837286
Halloween costumes

>>211831827 (OP)
The biggest thing that makes the movies worse imo is how much of a bitch they make Frodo. He's by far the most chad hobbit in the books but they either give away his cool moments to other characters or outright remove them for reasons I don't really understand. Like, everything in the Old Forest I guess I can wrap my head around why it was removed. But why give Frodo yelling at the Nazghul that "they can't have him" to Arwen? I don't really care about Glorfindel being cut but why couldn't Frodo have had that line?
Probably the dumbest thing, which is related, is how Frodo doesn't even fight back on Weathertop he just falls down like a bitch, and then the Nazghul just doesn't stab him to kill him? In the books he parries the blow, it isn't as if he is a match but he misdirects it from being directly in his heart enough to survive. It just straight up doesn't make sense in the movie.

>>211846320
You did it wrong. Your first post should have been
>There are no major differences between books and movies, and you all are autistic trannies for bitching

Jackson cut Arwen from Helm's Deep. Girlboss stealing Glorfindel's saving of Frodo was enough.

>>211840915
part of it is the subconscious loophole in a story where if something "happened" you cannot refute whereas if something is "happening" you feel more confident in your complaints, it's why you'll see people screech about plotholes in a story but not question set ups nearly as often. The truth is this is a very midwit way to engage with narratives in general. Good lore informs what is happening in the present story. Stuff like
>The Crucible Knight used to use a sword until he was bested in combat by a hammer-wielder and decidedly changed his weapon.... wait until you find the book about the hammer-wielder!
Adds absolutely nothing other than arbitrary, autistic "flavour" that would be acceptable if it wasn't thrusted into the forefront of the narrative as a substitute to actual fucking storytelling. Fucking reddit.

>>211847103
>If things were different things that are an issue would not be an issue
Great insight bro

the book gets really annoying. every time the hobbits meet a new character
>super polite hour long conversation explaining what happened previously
>they praise each other for being so le polite, and having the blood of kings, or something gay like that
>fare ye well, have some bread or whatever

glad the movies cut that crap out. and the movies improved some scenes. the parts with wormtongue, theoden, and denethor were way cooler in the movies

>>211834098
Klatu
Verada
Nigg*cough*

>>211847427
I'm saying if it was ~exactly~ the same but the ghosts did actually physically harm people (because they are supposed to be incorporeal ghosts lmao) and instead just scared them, none of you retards would be able to level these complaints at all. Of course - you are retarded - so I assume what I'm saying is incomputable to your tiny peanut sized brain. Most often the criticism is about the deus ex machina of the situation, which would still technically exist in the above version of events, proving that the criticism is largely empty.

The only book that was unsuccessfully adapted is Return of The King. There is a lot of content either missing or messed with from book to movie that kind of make it an inferior product unfortunately. I assume because he didn't have the time to wrap it up like in the book, and the book almost ends on an extra climax with The Shire which just doesn't translate well to film.

Fellowship of the Ring and Two Towers are marked improvements from book to screen, and there really isn't too much that's missing of any relevance anyway. The big omissions like Bombadil are competently accounted for in other areas of the story.

>>211847103
Hackson's green walking one-liners aren't remotely scary

>>211831827 (OP)
All the made up stuff with Arwen, probably included to give female viewers something to care about despite fingering to Orlando and Viggo, brought the second movie down IMMENSELY. And so did the whole "exodus to Helm's Deep" subplot which feels like a random sidequest.
The third movie just dropped the ball with Denethor, the ghosts, Sam finding the lembas and the pelennor fields battle being a bit too over the top. Everything else is fine

>>211847804
>the book almost ends on an extra climax with The Shire which just doesn't translate well to film.
This is the worst thing about Jackson's adaptation. It should have been its own movie, maybe extrapolating a bit from other plot points skipped previously to pad out the time. Sort of what he did with the Hobbit, but I really feel this should have been included, even if the coronation ending feels "right".

Sure, but it has some really great moments too.

Theoden's war speech and the charge of the Rohirrim.
Denethor's madness.
The breach of Minas Tirith.
Theoden riding out in Helm's deep and the sounding of the great horn of helm hammerhand.
Gandalf arriving with the first light of dawn, blinding and harrowing the orcs.
Aragorn's war speech and stand outside the black gates.
Theoden answering Saruman atop Orthanc.
Aragorn singing at his coronation and Elrond giving away his daughter Arwen in marriage.
Frodo and Sam at the foot of Mount Doom.
The depiction of Gollum as a schizophrenic pathological liar.
Everybody crying at the shores of the sea "Here at last... comes the end of our Fellowship.

There are so many good scenes.

I'm not sure what it was, but something about TT and RotK just doesn't feel like epic fantasy anymore, especially TT it starts to feel like a buddy road comedy or something.

I'm not sure if it was the editing or the increase in humor but there was something so grand in Fellowship that never got replicated.

>>211848089
This reminds me of the anon a few years ago that was adamant the climax of the war on Mordor should have been in movie 2 with Helms Deep being the opening. Then movie 3 would open with the coronation and the story would be about returning to The Shire after this huge adventure and dealing with the aftermath directly at home bringing the story full circle (which is what Tolkien does)... it's an interesting idea but I dunno if 1 movie is enough to cover a whole book and a half.

>>211848178
It is just less comfy and more actiony. We dont need 10 hour incel analysis videos to get this simple truth

>>211848109
Battle against Balrog was sick

always felt like first movie is way better than the other two, in fact it starts going downhill on half of first movie

>>211831827 (OP)

Not really, they pushed Shelob´s bits to the third movie to give Frodo more screen time on the final part. They killed Saruman off because while it may have worked as a good epilogue to showcase how the journey had transformed the hobbits in the book it wouldn´t have worked after the climax in a movie. They obviously removed the houses of healing for pacing purposes. It´s basically the same logic used to not include Tom Bombadil, give Arwen Glorfindel´s job or skip most of the singing (namely simplification and streamlining for the most part).

Other changes were made as attempts to convey through imagery all that they had no time or way to describe. Can´t add hours of exposition man, they had to find a balance between being as faithful to Tolkien´s work as they could with pleasing suits and audiences unfamiliar with his work.

They did a fantastic job. The very fact that it works is a miracle on itself. Sadly the same can not be said from literally any other piece of LOTR media.

>>211848178
Hard disagree. FOTR feels like pure wonder because you're being introduced to everything in the world, especially from the eyes of some farm midget. TT feels like the entry to the story where we mostly follow the established big players in said world and everything feels lived in and like it is occurring right now. I think ROTK suffers purely from this air of plot armour that hangs around it as we know there is a baked in expectation that everything needs to be wrapped up neatly and safely all pretty like. The stakes just aren't there like they are with the other two, but this is a problem I don't think I've ever seen any big scale trilogy or epic really curb effectively.... I literally can't think of one off the top of my head, maybe Toy Story ? kek

>>211847656
yeahhh you BTFO that anon lmao, literally no response

>>211848235
Opening with Helms deep is not a bad idea, but it does skip a very important plot point: Gandalf revealing his newfound power to Saruman.

Opening with the coronation in book 3 is a shit idea though, unless you plan to show everything down to gimli and legolas leaving middle earth after aragorns funeral and the succession of his son, showing truly the age of man had come and all magic was gone. Maybe you could show Frodo also burying Bilbo on Tol Erresea too, accepting and understanding why Man can never step foot on the undying lands.

>>211848382
With rewatches it become apparent that Mr. Jackson uses at most 10% of the book dialogue in pivotal scenes which is for the best because he can't resist dumbing it down

>>211848275
It wasn't just comfy though, there were a lot of spooky moments in it. It's like in FotR they weren't scared to really up the pace and cut away to what's happening thousands of miles away and then cut back to the shire in a second.

Like the scene where they release the riders from minas morgul and then seconds later they're back in the shire.

It feels like it's some fairy tale being narrated to you, especially with the intro.

>>211847656
Absolutely not. In the book the ghosts were only particularly useful under the specific circumstance of scaring the pirates at the harbor so aragorn and the grey company(who did the actual fighting
) could gain access to the corsairs and make their way to Gondor. They are by no means an invincible force and this idea that they could just barge into the middle of this ongoing massive battle in the fields and completely turn the tides by being ooky spooky is idiotic. In the movies Aragorn lets go of the most overpowered ridiculous invincible unstoppable tsunami at the time they needed them most. Not only does it make no sense but it completely cheapens all that went down at the battle.

>>211847154
Honestly Glorfindel doesn't to anything after that and if he was to be removed, replacing him with Arwen seems like logical choice.

>>211848696
>spooky
But thats literally a part of Tolkien's literary devices though. You'll notice how in the beginning they are very scared and timid and ignorant, and by the end they are experienced, even to the point of arrogance.

Make Merry and Pippin not retards who stumble into the Fellowship stealing turnips. They went with Frodo willingly in the books.
Make Denethor a tragic figure, not comically evil who sends Faramir to a suicide charge.

>>211847231

>>211839672
>lacking in spirit
Terrible meme, this contrarian nonsense to take down TTT has no standing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRVu-6yU0as
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVEYcTyj1Do
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0Mtlklmna0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6C8SX0mWP0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE-1RPDqJAY

>>211831827 (OP)
>How is/was there not more of an uproar about how hard Peter Jackson took a dump on the source material?
There was. Especially the ghost ships thing. Not that many people read the books though relative to those that watched the movies so nobody gave a shit. Also, all the people who were kids when they watched them are adults now. It's sort of like the SW Prequel effect except the LOTR movies are actually good even if they're middling as an adaption so they hold up infinitely better.

>>211848855
>bookfag
>unable to see the point of a post
>unable to do anything but uncontrollably seethe
Every. Single. Time.

>>211847231
yeah you have to bait autists into arguing with you to get any info on this god forsaken site

>>211848418
> TT feels like the entry to the story where we mostly follow the established big players in said world

Aside from a few characters (like OP resurrected Gandalf) it doesn't feel like the half the cast are much but comic relief/action and dont really have anything to do. That's why Jackson added in that fake Aragorn death so he would have something going on. And then you get Faramir who Jackson ruins.

>I just can't get passed this...
>Merry and Pippin... no... they weren't turnip picking...
What a bunch of fucking whiny ass bitches you all are

>>211845798
The main difference is that in the books Gandalf takes Frodo aside at the Grey Havens and explains that he had defaulted on his payments to Geico insurance so if he sent the Eagles to Mount Doom to destroy the One Ring he would have to pay out of pocket to cover any hospital bills for broken wings, chipped talons, and burnt feathers.

The elves at helms deep are skubby but they actually dont bother me. I can understand them worrying about general audiences asking why there are no elves helping them. In the grand scheme of things it's not a huge deal.

What bothers me (and makes large parts of the PJ films unwatchable for me) is the way Theoden, Boromir, Denethor and Faramir are treated.

>Theoden
Is awoken from a (literal) magic spell and is a huge dickhead to the people who just saved him.
>Boromir
Bad apple from the start - no one is surprised when he does the thing he was lampshaded into doing the moment he was introduced
>Denethor
Written as a villain for some reason
>Faramir
Also written as a villain again for no reason, same with the rangers.

Again I understand these are films and the thinking may have been that they wanted more drama for these characters but it all feels contrived. In addition, these characters are so obnoxious we're left wondering why we or the fellowship should care about Gondor at all.

The story of Denethor and his two sons is IMHO Tolkien's best writing, it's by far the richest part of the books and it's utterly ruined in the films.

>>211849236
People don't want to admit that a big issue with Faramir was also casting. Wenham does a good job sure whatever, but Sean Bean is so fucking based as Boromir that it's nearly impossible to live up to him. In the books Faramir quickly surpasses his brother as a character and is based, but Bean was too good that he was too hard to be topped. It makes Faramir more a bitch in the movies. They should've cast them the other way around no disrespect to Wenham.

>>211849435
>Sean Bean is so fucking based as Boromir
He truly was... Still can't believe that nigga is gone..
RIP my nigga

There's way too much comedy. Gimli is basically reduced to comic relief

>>211849435
It's not the actor's fault, Jackson changed the character from heroic and benevolent to villainous and covetous to increase tension, the same reason he gave Aragorn a fake death.

Also it could be he didn't know how to handle the pacing right, as I recall the book two towers ends with Sam defeating Shelob and searching for Frodo but Jackso delays that all the way to the middle rotk. So, he has Faramir act as a villain just to get them to Osgiliath and pad a story that doesn't need padding.

>Faramir
>Villain
How illiterate can you get?

>>211849342
Mordor's anti-air defences meant that Gandalf would not be able to obtain insurance for the eagles.

>>211849190
You are the one not seeing the point. You can't just replace their movie power with their spookiness and everything would be the same because it would make no sense, it relies on the context of the smaller scale conflict of aiding the acquisition of the ships by boosting an actual force. Its perfectly reasonable for Aragorn to consider their oath fulfilled because there was very little else they would be able to do in the field of an ongoing mass scale battle that was already going on. At best they would be a little extra distractions for the enemy army but all the gondor/rohan forces that were there would be equally scared that there was now a bunch of spectres all around them.

>>211849432
>Denethor
>Written as a villain for some reason
presumably because they felt they needed a secondary antagonist
>Faramir
Also written as a villain
no he's not

>>211831827 (OP)
>Not a single example, just unfiltered tard rage
The books are good, the movies are good, OP is a faggot

>>211849683
meh, you could argue he was just condensing what is a very sprawling narrative to fit within a few hours of film. I think a much bigger issue is Bean as Boromir. He's just too goddamn handsome and charismatic, like if you gave all of Faramir's scenes to him, it wouldn't be so bad. It's because he mogs his brother. The best part of TT's extended edition is seeing based Boromir show up again in a flashback and be a chad. It actually makes Faramir look like even more of a bitch now that I think about it because the mogging is just on full display, normally they're not in any scenes together.

>>211849852
Retard.

>>211849867
>condensing

but he expanded Frodo and Sam's journey with the detour to Osgiliath. If he really wanted to condense it he could have cut down on the Faramir scenes.

>>211849918
Condensing isn't just cutting stuff away though. He collapsed character storylines together clearly. The same way he attributed character traits or dialogue from characters in the books to different characters in the movies. It's done in service of the medium and anybody who doesn't grasp that probably actually is on the spectrum yeah

>>211849761
Not precisely. Gandalf held some sway with the insurance bankers of Osgilliath and was therefore able to negotiate the terms of the insurance contract to extend his coverage of corpus harmus by way of anti-air weaponry to any dosmesticated pets, including birds, but it came at a premium and he spent all his money on longbottom leaf and pipeweed marijuana

>>211849977
>It's done in service of the medium

Yeah I still don't see what service was done to the medium adding Frodo and Sam to Osgiliath, aside from padding out their plot, which in retrospect just looks like bloat.

They were a huge part of my childhood but yeah these days I find rotk embarrassingly bad and borderline unwatchable

>>211849813
I give audiences credit that they would be able to understand Denethor as an 'obstacle' to the main heroes without a clearly villainous component.
A brief scene where he verbally spars with Gandalf would accomplish this. Conveying some of the grandeur and immense reverence for the past that's in the story.
Film Faramir is essentially film Boromir but without any sympathetic component or redemption. We learn that a selfish bandit wants to please his selfish lunatic of a father. The wickedness of the named characters is a big problem for the films when so much of the stakes rides on the sieges.

>>211849250
>fucking whiny ass bitches
Go back, troon

Two Towers is still decent, it's Return of the King that truly misses the mark

>>211848658

Nothing wrong with that either. Cinema is a stylized audio visual medium. The focus should be on showing rather than telling and heavy exposition is meant to be a last resource of sorts.

Properly conveying the author intended ideas and emotions take precedence over tracing. Specially considering that what can work for one medium may not work for another.

>>211831827 (OP)

Fellowship is by far the superior movie.

From the very first moment I start watching Two Towers I feel something is off and really different from Fellowship, the performances become too over the top, mainly Grima and Saruman. They feel too much like your standard cartoonish villains from looney tunes or some shit.

Also the scenery for Two Towers is just really
shit, I know that's not the movie's fault really because Rohan is what it is, but holy shit is Rohan fucking boring to look at. It's all just yellow piss looking barren wastelands.

Then you have RoTK, where everything involving the Pelennor fields, Minas Tirith or Denethor is complete garbage. And that's what's focused on for the majority of the film.
It's such a wasted potential. Not to mention Hackson completely lost his mind with bullshit like the ghost army.
Two Towers and RoTK feel a lot more like your standard action flicks, Fellowship still feels like something entirely different and something much more unique

The way they shifted events around pisses me off. Two Towers wouldnt need fake padding plots like Aragorn falling and being presumed dead or Faramir taking the hobbits to Osgiliath if it had the actual events like Shelob and Gandalf vs Saruman and Pippin with the Palantir. Then that would have freed up so much screentime of Rotk to actually make it good.

>>211831827 (OP)
actually this trilogy i rate perfectly still. it has gandalf's transition from grey to white correctly backwards. it has saruman falling correctly in the tower during the same timing. and also the mordor scenes representing how even gandalf's power of the sword stops at the one ring which is given to androidsextoy snow (me) with the power sword is perfect. 10/10. zero errors in creation.

>>211854520
Ok

>>211854520
please don't take your meds

>>211836981
>3:50
Jesus Christ who watches this fucking shit?

>>211832424
>Like Jackson got all those awards and started huffing his own shit
He got the majority of the awards for RotK, the fuck are you talking about?

>>211854902
Millions of fans.

>>211837286
>galaxy far away
>fantasy earth
>boarding school
These aren’t really comparable.

>>211853490
Even then they still managed to stuff rotk with a bunch of idiotic shit like pippin's stealth mission to light the beacons, elronds visit to give aragorn the sword and the skull flood when they go see the dead. Meanwhile all the actual content of the book got cut. Fucking disgusting.

>>211831827 (OP)
That's the point. If it was a one to one adaptation, why read the books? Just to make sure you're not being trolled when you're told how accurate the adaptation is? LOTR is great films and great books that are valid to experience and enjoy both. Because really, why tell the same story twice?

Crazy how derivative the live action films are to the animated movie that predates them. It's not just that they are adapting the same thing, Peter Jackson literally ripped it off specifically

>>211856125
i don't think it's the divergence from the material that's the issue, it's the quality of the script/screenplay in of itself
even tolkien accepted that large parts of the story would have to be cut to make it into a film, there's just far too much to get across in an hour and a half. he implied the books were unfilmable at one point

>>211831827 (OP)
Could an even more faithful adaption even be possible without being overly long or ruining the pacing? There is a reason LOTR was considered unfilmable for half a century. Even Fellowship cut out a ton and changed many things.

>>211831827 (OP)
go watch the behind the scenes stuff. it's all on youtube. a ton of love and work went into these films. this was the last gasp of great Hollywood before everything turned into CGI slop and movies were ruined forever by the Star Wars prequels+Marvel.

>>211856553
>Could an even more faithful adaption even be possible without being overly long or ruining the pacing?
Yes >>211853490 >>211855831

>>211856608
ROTK is ridden with cgi slop

>>211837286
Having to listen to a bunch of fucking little Kids for hours and hours and hours now every single movie HAS to have little fucking kid protagonists

>>211856693
nah most of it has aged well and it was all real sets, it wasn't like the Star Wars prequels where it was literally just green rooms of nothing for every single scene

>>211850094
Because it allowed him to combine storylines and share screentime between certain characters that would have otherwise warranted separate storylines and separate screentime (or would more likely be cut entirely in the case of Faramir). So in order to keep the runtime reasonable he collapse the storylines together. What are you not getting exactly?

>>211856125
They are bad regardless of the accuracy. That's part of the point of the OP. Up to this point he thought TT and ROTK were not as good due to the source material not being as good so it couldn't be helped but now he realizes a lot of it was just Peter Jackson's idiocy

>>211856777
>Green rooms
Yeah they used blue screens instead

>>211836535
>frodo lives in his house for a year
It was 17 years actually.

>>211856608
plenty of films full of "love and hard labor" with a shitty end product. "It's not as bad as all that came after" is not an excuse to defend subpar movies

>nevermind that the script is shit because they worked very hard on it and didn't use as much cgi as they would today

We need a LOTR anime.

>>211847255
Must have felt like shit for the actress to go through all that shit only to get scrapped

>>211831827 (OP)
The films are far superior to the books. They are better paced, the characters have more emotional depth and they much better handle the themes of sacrifice, love for humanity and of brotherhood, mainly because the films intentionally put less emphasis on the magico-religious elements.

>>211831827 (OP)
OP is a delusional fuck if he thinks the exposition dump flashback sequence book council of elrond was better than the masterpiece movie version

>>211842620
Actually filtered if you think that's how Denethor was portrayed in the films.

I love the movies but I'm bored to tears by the books. Adopting the books accurately would make for unwatchable movies.

>>211859136
Anon that's fellowship, OP is trashing the TT and rotk. Do you fuckers not know how to read?

>>211841631
>Anna Karenina
Yeah, I'm surprised nobody really talks much about Tolstoy's adaptations. It really is a bad adaptation of Tolstoy's book; I'd say every adaptation of Tolstoy's books fucking suck, since the books he wrote are some of the greatest novels ever written

Lol

>>211838905
If Faramir wasnt tempted 99% of viewers would have found him boring as hell, the temptation hindered by the love of his brother is compelling for that reason. Stop being assmad over changes that improve stuff

>>211840366
Difference is that Tolkien is a good writer. Just the Ainulindale reads like a biblical text but no one pretends it happened for real

>>211843024
Almost like Jackson knew that and made a movie that would blow kids balls off with how good it was since childhood memories are worth more than fat virgins sitting 20 years later saying
>ack ack ack, not even the grey company? Hacksonnnnnn

>>211831827 (OP)
viggo mortensen literally calls out Peter hackson for leaning on cgi and making them more action oriented deviating from the source

>>211838905
>>211863778
what bothered me most was how mean he was to Smeagol (and that smile at Frodo when he almost ordered his mean to shoot Smeagol).
I never got why they included that? Someone please tell me so I can watch the film again without feeling so bad

>>211864898
men*

I can't watch the films anymore beside Fellowship after reading the books
Idk how he makes such riveting material so incredibly boring
Two Towers is the worst example of it
I fell asleep during the Battle of Helm's Deep sequence

>>211831827 (OP)
>Hey guys, wanna watch the plot suddenly come to a screeching halt so we can talk about elf love?
>Can you BELIEVE Tolkien only put me in two shorts scenes in the books?

>>211831827 (OP)
I would argue that there are parts that needed to be changed for the sake of it being converted to film, but there are also many changes for which this is no excuse.

Namely
>Merry and Pippin and bumbling idiots who join the Fellowship after stealing Turnips, instead of being Frodo's friends who volunteer to help him
>No Grey company
>No Barrow Downs
>The Nazghul being weirdly incompetent
>Glorfindel being replaced with Arwen
>Arwen casting the spell that drowns the Nazghul instead of Gandalf and Elrond
>The entirety of the Aragorn x Arwen romance subplot
>Aragorn not reforging his sword in Rivendell and having hangups about not wanting to become Isildur (I kind of get why he did this, because it means we get "Strider the Ranger" Aragorn longer instead of him becoming the more King Arthur type figure we get in the book, but this is betraying the plot of the books for what is essentially fanservice because fans liked Strider)
>Comic relief Gimli
>Invincible anime character Legolas
>Galadriel being really creepy the whole time, not just when she's directly tempted by the Ring
>Elves at Helm's Deep
>No Wild Men aiding Sauruman at Helm's Deep
>Helm's Deep being won by the ride of the Gandalfhirrim.
>Faramir being a stupid asshole whose whole character is having daddy issues.
>Denethor being a stupid asshole who only ever makes stupid decisions
>Faramir taking the Hobbits to Osgiliath
>The whole "Gollum makes Frodo not trust Sam" plot
>Eowyn as an everywoman instead of warrior princess
>Easterlings and Haradrim only showing up as the riders of the Mumakil
>The Dead Men of Dunharrow winning the entire Battle of Pelennor Fields
>The Mouth of Sauron just kind of taunting the Fellowship instead of engaging in genuine negotiations
>Aragorn killing the Mouth of Sauron
>Not showing the extensive subterranean orc forges throughout Mordor, so when the ground collapses after Barad-dur falls, it just kind of comes out of nowhere
>No Scouring of the Shire

>>211844654
>Arwen fanfic
?

>>211866783
Arwen was only in two scenes in the book.

They were her showing up at Elrond's feast, and then her showing up at Gondor to be Aragorn's queen. While the Aragorn x Arwen romance is canon, it was entirely sub-textual in the books.

>>211866959
I kind of get that they expanded her role, if they kept only those two scenes their relationship would just feel unncessary and everyone would wonder why he didn't get with Eowyn

The Two Towers was the best book. It was pure fantasy adventure kino.

>>211867236
The opening was fire fr fr ong

>>211866699
>Glorfindel being replaced with Arwen
Yeah, he was a non character, he is the guy who says "let's throw the ring into the ocean", you can't have everyone, Arwen is more important and at least she remains an important presence throughout all three movies.
>The whole "Gollum makes Frodo not trust Sam" plot
I think Jackson spoke about regretting this.
>No Scouring of the Shire
As much as I would have liked to see it, it would have felt out of place after such a big climax and at worst would have been at least another 10 minutes added.

>>211864898
You look me in the eyes and tell me that you wouldnt punt that little monster the second you saw him.
And that smile always seemed like a "Im definitely capable of killing this thing but Im also clearly bluffing since I know this midge will step in"

>>211867581
>Yeah, he was a non character
Hollywood's idea that you can't have minor characters that do anything is stupid and they should get over it.

>Arwen is more important and at least she remains an important presence throughout all three movies.
This was a mistake.

>As much as I would have liked to see it, it would have felt out of place after such a big climax and at worst would have been at least another 10 minutes added.
They could have cut it out of the boat scene.

>>211856850
> combine storylines and share screentime between certain characters

What you're saying doesn't even make sense. In the books Faramir doesn't even go to Osgiliath until AFTER he already returns to Minas Tirith so neither Frodo and Sam or Faramir should even be there.

He's not combining two story lines he created all new fan fiction to pad runtime in a series that didn't need padding.

It think it's a sign of the unnecessary padding and fan fiction that would soon plague the hobbit series only a few years later.

>>211831827 (OP)
It was always the general opinion with people who've actually read the books. Most people just haven't read anything.

>>211831827 (OP)
Yes Two Towers is especially bad and I've never re-watched it, it turns every character 180 degrees for no reason as when everyone is flipped the same thing happens anyway, it just undermines the characters, it also cartoonifies everything for the smooth-brains.

>>211847154
cool, let's change black panther to a huwhite male

>>211848901
It would make more sense to replace Glorfindel with Legolas (if you must INSIST on the idea that minor characters shouldn't be allowed to do anything) than essentially spin a new character into existence.

>>211863778
>99% of viewers would have found him boring as hell
This is some fantasy from brainwashed kike writers' heads. Everyone who read the book loved him and had he stayed the same in the movie, they would've only called him based as fuck. Him being twice the man that boromir was only made his father's treatment of him more tragic. You and Hackson understand nothing.

>>211856318
safe to assume it was his introduction to the source material

>>211864898
I definitely got a whiff of Iraq War era politics from that scene.
"Oh look, the good guys are dicks too, look at how they're beating up poor Smeagol! It's just like Abu Ghraib!"

>>211831827 (OP)
>Reading
Kill yourself you boomerfaggot

>>211865672
10 years later, Hackson does the same thing with Tauriel (also making up the character in the process) and you have people, with a straight face, telling that Tauriel is dogshit while Arwen and her storyline was amazing, deep, romantic etc..

>>211831827 (OP)
You're a fat black man and this whole thread is bait

>>211869886
Tauriel is obviously worse because she wasn't even a character in the hobbit.

>>211831827 (OP)
A lot of the changes are retarded but he still gets 80% of the material right and the special effects, acting and direction are all masterful. So he got a pass until his hackfraudiness got worse in The Hobbit.

>>211869886
Arwen's side plot is taken from the books, expanded and done well.
Tauriel is made up and the whole romance is forced onto a story that never cared for that.
You're free to dislike both but one is done well and canon while the other is bad fanfic with Jackson's OC

>>211847154
Glorfindel could have solo'ed Sauron and his army also.

>>211857109
No, that was after Bilbo's disappearance. He lived in the Shire for several months after Gandalf figured out it was the One Ring, and he made plans about how he could sell his home, pretend to move back to his extended family and make his disappearance seem natural.

>>211847154
That shit was extremely woke, even if that term wasn't used back then. All of Arwen's action scenes are awkward and out of place.

>>211870232
The romance in general is canonical.

The romantic subplot in the movies is not. Arwen shows up in the books twice and not for very long. It's not done well either. The plot comes to a screeching halt everything it comes up instead of being woven into the plot in any kind of organic way. Of course, 90% of Hollywood romantic subplots are garbage like this, so it's hardly alone, but it's still not any fucking good. Tauriel's sin was just being outright ridiculous.

>>211870350
It was called Girl Power back in my days.

>>211831827 (OP)
I just take it as its own thing. Don't compare it to the book because the dialogue is woeful compared to Tolkien's intricate prose.

>>211870425
It was just third wave feminism and political correctness.

>>211847103
The Minas Tirith battle has more issues than just the ghosts. In the book Sauron's army is stopped right at the gates, but in the movie they storm in to create cheap drama. There is also a scene in the extended edition where the Witch King overpowers Gandalf, which is retarded since both are established to be on the same power level and that it would have been the most epic battle if not for both of them getting distracted. There is a lot of minor issues like Legolas doing backflips, or the evil human presence being downplayed. Eowyn's line delivery is also super cheesy. In the end, when the ghosts arrive it just further cements how wacky the whole situation has become.

>>211847154
>>211847255
>>211847255
Tolkien was a hack, Arwen should've joined the fellowship from the very beginning. Tauriel too, if only to make those movies less faggy.

>>211870818
Just turn? Legolas into a girl, no one would notice the difference.

>>211847103
>>211847656
>>211849190
You're so bad at arguing your points, it's hilarious. Hint: going "i'm right and you're wrong" just makes you look like an insecure faggot.

If you look at Two Towers as it's own thing instead of how good an adaptation it is, it's a great movie. Now Return of the King... that is absolute slop regardless

>>211869196
Done and done.

>>211831827 (OP)
>How are those movies still so well regarded?
Because they are good. The books are good and the movies are good even if they differ. That's what matters.

>>211849138
Except the books are like this constantly. You're posting exceptions, scenes that are noteworthy because they're not like the rest of the movies.

>>211869454
It should've been Elrond.

I wouldn't be mad at the lack of all that was cut/streamlined if the films weren't padded to hell and back with terrible made up fanfiction

>>211870137
>he still gets 80% of the material right
50% at best. You need to re-read the novels because you seem to have forgotten just how massively different the movies are, especially Two Towers and RotK.

>Christopher Tolkien, son of J.R.R. Tolkien, was critical of Peter Jackson's Lord of the Rings movies, finding them to be a poor adaptation that gutted the book's essence.
>He felt the films prioritized action and were made for a young audience, misrepresenting the depth and complexity of the source material.
No one cares that they were a bad adaptation because they so perfectly tied to their demographic. Another example is how no one cares that Disney butchered classic fairytales in its movies because at the time those cartoons spoke to their demographic.

>>211870878
That would make Aragorn out to be too much of a man-slut, with Arwen, Eowyn AND Legolass thirsting for his dick.

>>211871281
There's like hundreds of different versions of most of the stories that Disney has adapted and the most famous ones might be hundreds of years older than the originals. Very different.

If the public responds well to the Potter tv series format it's only a matter of time before they do the same for Lotr

>>211871392
No, the point is that classic fairy tales, whilst having different versions, were completely changed and sanitised in a way for a specific demographic. And as such, no one calls those cartoon movies bad adaptations. The point is that way you hit what a specific demographic wants often overrides whether or not something accurately adapted something.

>>211870818
You're baiting but honestly, Tolkien's writing was too sexless and prudish. It celebrates humanity but at the same time seems ashamed of a very significant part of human experience. And the minimal role of women in his story is a questionable choice, considering that LoTR is a fantasy at the end of the day and making one more female character besides Eowyn an active player wouldn't hurt it one bit.

>>211847255
>Aragorn's true love came to help him and fought side by side with him.

Imagine how butthurt Eowyn would have been, sitting in the cave in the meantime.

>>211869876
You are now autonomically reading this and manually breathing.
captcha: shid hit

>>210899301
It's time we admit Fellowship of the Ring had a lot of dumb shit as well. First of all there's the matter of them sissifying Frodo. His chad moment of defying the Nazguls was given over to Arwen and every other shot in the movie is him staring into the camera looking scared and/or teary eyed. Merry and Gimli getting treated as ̶u̶n̶s̶e̶r̶i̶o̶u̶s̶ ̶r̶e̶t̶a̶r̶d̶s ̶ discount Pippin in half their scenes was pretty irritating. Gandalf's big sacrifice was marred with Elijah's big dumb Hollywood "NOOOOOO!". Elves were pretty overwrought whenever they were the focus of the scene especially Arwen and Galadriel. The scene where the latter appears before fellowship with her husband was honestly hilarious, they literally glow lmao and everyone acts like they saw some otherworldly beauty. Galadriel losing her shit after being offered the Ring was cringeworthy, she literally goes full retard and it comes out of nowhere. Her remark afterwards that she "passed the test" means nothing if you had not read the book. The action scenes were not that well-choreographed besides the CGI-heavy parts, it's not believable that hobbits don't get swiped away the moment fighting starts and Boromir's sword fighting is pretty bad. Although Legolas, Gimli and Aragorn were pretty on-point with their moves and the editing carries the fights. Oh and the wizard fight sucked, they should've cut away after Saruman tells Gandalf that the nine riders would kill whoever holds the ring. And this is more of a personal complaint but they should've included my nigga Gil-Galad and shown him and Elendil 2v1ing Sauron.

>>211865672
Everything romantic in theovie was utter dogshit. Like, scenes are visually beautiful, but out of place and eternal bullshit between Arwen/Aragorn and oh maybe between Aragorn/Eowyn felt like pure "inserted in the last moment for women" plots. They are dry, boring and not for a moment have I felt that there was a chemistry between any of the romantic partners.
Thats why Samwise/Rosy were the best. They were at the start and at the end and it felt just right.
Arwen/Aragorn should have been treated the same. Rivendell scene -> Wedding. This is it.

>>211871964
Also the greenscreen was atrocious during the stair-hopping sequence in Moria. The Watcher of Moria scene turned into ridiculous theme park ride very quickly. And orcs as well as most of the Uruk-hai were way too unserious of a threat.

>potatoes in medieval europe
Immersion broken

There's a version of a trilogy somewhere out there in the multiverse that follows books as faithfully as possible and it's probably boring as shit.

>>211831827 (OP)
Fellowship locations:
>green beautiful Hobbiton
>deep forests of the Shire
>Dark rainy Breeze
>gloomy swampy Arnor and plains of Eregion
>beautiful autumn Rivendell
>snowy mountains, deep caves
>another beautiful majestic elven fortress
>Anduin

Tower and Return:
>plains everywhere
>some ancient forest
>rocky wasteland
>this is it

Towers and Return also feel worse and more tedious cause they are visually unappealing and samey. And they are two times longer than the Fellowship, combined.

>>211838841
Gandalf pretty much points this out to him and Saruman starts seething

>>211831827 (OP)
>I kind of assumed that was tied to the source material
It is. Fellowship is the quintessential dnd adventure. Dream team of unlikely allies with different skills and personalities meets at an inn and goes on a world saving quest across many landscapes facing many dangers and it climaxes with slaying a big monster inside a dungeon. Other two is about armies clashing. The moment the fellowship breaks the compelling essence of the story ends

>>211861381
Apperently not you, Tolkien was a master world builder but a shit scene maker. All the movie scenes flow better and have more emotional weight.

>>211870878
Legolass and Gimli are a tsundere couple
>It's not like I care about a stinky dwarf like you or anything b-baka!

>>211847154
Why is it always the people who insist that everything is political can't stand it when you point out that what they are pushing is political?

>>211872147
Gondor is the worst. How do you fuck up peak Mankind by reducing it to a giant white cake on a brown field? The actual city looks cool though, but wtf happened to the grass?

>>211871563
must not have been many women in the war with him

>>211838841
>Saruman wilfully being Sauron's lackey

He started out looking for the ring for himself, but Sauron learned about him through the palantir and sent the nazgul van for a home visit and he folded there. He was still secretly hoping to turn the tables by snatching the ring first but it didn't pan out. Nothing willful about it.

To think they actually filmed the scouring of the shire
https://youtu.be/ybiAMHT7HvA?si=j0eOzUHyyQiF0ns7

>>211870275
They point was they couldn't and that was the reason they didn't give him the ring tho.

Name a more perfect casting, I dare you

The real problem is that Lord of The Rings has a particular structure in that it's split into six parts that do not divide nicely into sets of twos. Each part has a distinct set of protagonists and antagonists and a specific focus. Fucking up the characters is typical hollywoodism and unavoidable when so much money is on the line but the way Jackson reorganised the narrative structure is on him. I think a more faithful three movie adaptation was possible but Jackson wasn't the guy to make it.

>>211832340
I think it is that he was an illiterate hack, after all he read the book and thought Sauron was a giant eyeball because his influence is described as 'the eye of Sauron '. Although I do think that particular instance of illiteracy worked for the movie, the eye Tower thing was a good way to keep the big bad guy 'in the movie' without just cutting to him plotting evilly like Dr. Claw

>Lord of The Rings has a particular structure in that it's split into six parts that do not divide nicely into sets of twos.
It does though. Being able to cut back and forth between the Frodo and Sam-only books and the everyone else books is a massive advantage of the films.
Problem is that they basically moved a ton of Two towers content to Rotk which meant they had to invent a bunch of filler so they could have a second movie and then with Return of the king having to handle all the stuff that was supposed to be in TT it took too much screentime that they had to cut and rush everything that was supposed to be there.

>>211874110
Reminder that Hackson wanted Sauron to take shape and fight Aragorn and they even shot it that way but ended up replacing Sauron with a troll in post production

>>211831827 (OP)
The live actions movies are slop trash Tolkien's kids hated them as did anyone with any aesthetic taste or understanding of the books. They are really bad. Cheesy shlock.

>>211874356
>Being able to cut back and forth between the Frodo and Sam-only books and the everyone else books is a massive advantage of the films
One of the reasons I prefer the theatrical cuts (mostly for TT and RoTK) is because the mouth of sauron scene just doesn't work in the films because we know Frodo is fine, unlike in the book.

>>211874456
The first one is good.

>>211831827 (OP)
You are a pleb

>>211873938
Gandalf

I'm offended that a property that at it's core is about Britain on the fundamental level is now first and foremost associated with New Zealand

>>211874674
Maybe the beginning was decent. The animated movies were much better at attempting to capture the tone.
The first is by far the strongest before it goes off the rails.

>>211873938
Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White

>>211875000
More like gangay the fag and gaygan aids

https://youtu.be/Vx52kCxzllc?si=jp8mlQBy1eKlXA0t

Tolkien's worldbuilding is SHIT. The great bulk of it is family trees and philology. He doesn't EVER elaborate on how Gondorians think and feel, their cultural practices and so on and how these might differ from the men of Rohan. Or what really differentiates a dark elf from a high elf beyond the journeys their ancestors took. We know next to nothing about what actually constitutes an orc, and EVEN LESS about the Easterlings and the people of Khand.
He also tends to brush off pivotal battles as if they were nothing of importance. Everything builds up to a conflict, and he either skips over the thing or gives you a laundry list account without any real narrative dynamic. Then he focuses on what's really important: describing a tree for 10 fucking pages.
Ironically though, despite his detailed descriptions, Middle-Earth is STILL lifeless in many ways. Thousands of years pass in the story and absolutely nothing happens, like the world's been paused. There are thousands of miles of wilderness between civilizations that should've realistically expanded that are just described as empty. Had he spent less pages describing what the left dwarf on the right's green button looked like and given more attention to substance then LOTR would've been much better books. But no, they are, in fact, verbose GARBAGE.

>>211870659
>same power level

Bullshit. Gandalf is severely restrained in that regard. Expressly forbidden from using his power unless in the uttermost dire need and even then he could only use just as needed.

>>211871785
The last surviving copy of Ms paint
Ok, boomer

I always disliked the LOTR movies having never read the books. While I have always been sci fi >>> fantasy, I do think there is a chance I could really enjoy the LOTR books if I ever got around to it, because I have always enjoyed Tolkein's scholarship with past England.

Frodo was miscast.

>>211838902
I can point to the exact location of Bilbo's home on a map lmao. What has harry potter got for actual sets/locations? Bank of England? Various digitally fuckerized castle flyover shits? Locations were subject to random nebulus change in HP and it disrupted the feeling that they were real in the world, too. Like even the producers and set/location/prop people decided it wasnt worth reproducing their own settings accurately. That shit annoyed me.

I make bullshit money doing actual work and these people bring in big bucks to just kinda wing things. There is a person whose only job is to ensure actors are not "moving" from their spots or appearing to overconsume prop food/drink between takes and they fuck up all the time and it just pisses me off imagining that theyre making more money than me. Drives me nuts.

>>211873938
gandalf
boromir

>>211873938
boromir

>>211875495
Sad bait

>>211846320
>3 books
*6 books

>>211875527
Stuart flat-out asks Gandalf if the Witch King is a threat to him, and while Gandalf isn't *worried* he takes him as a serious adversary. Yeah Gandalf unrestrained in his Maiar body or whatever could steamroll him, but that's meaningless when he doesn't have access to that power on the mortal plane

>>211874414
Elves at Helm's Deep was bad enough but originally Arwen was supposed to be there and girlboss her way through the battle. You can even see Liv Tyler in a few distant shots still lol

Conan > LotR

There I said it

>>211877900
Kek. But no.

>>211873955
The problem is that Book Six is a significant part of the overall story - Tolkien knew the story doesn't end with the defeat of evil, and that life continues even after the great journey. Hackson, unfortunately, wasn't interested in that, so book six is pretty much shoved entirely in the last 30 minutes of Return of the King in a montage that is both nowhere near enough to engage with what Tolkien was trying to do, and way too long to be an effective denouement to an already nearly 4 hour movie.

Maybe if we didn't waste time on a detour to Osgiliath or Arwen fucking about in Rivendell we could have had a proper adaptation but idk

>>211838994
>Where there's a whip, there's a way! We don't wanna go to war today!
yes

>>211870659
>both are established to be on the same power level
lol, not even close. Gandalf the White is arguably the second most powerful being in Middle Earth after Sauron. Remember, Gandalf the Grey (not the White) fended off four Nazgûl at Weathertop. Gandalf the White would have crushed the Witch King like a bug.

>>211831827 (OP)
The most egregious part of the books that was left out of the movies was the framing device that this is just a story being read by a British narrator and the true names of all the characters are actually just a united nations if foreign sounding words.

>>211878103
The battle for the shire was retarded in the books and served no purpose. It was too abruptly set upon the four hobbits, too abruptly dealt with and completely fucks up the flow of the story.

A Bombadil sequence in FotR would have been more worthwhile than that.

>>211873450
That appeared in his vision in lothlorien didnt it?

>>211872147
To be fair they travel a much longer distance and through much more varied landscapes in the first novel as well.

>>211831827 (OP)
He made fellowship as close as he could have. Was made to cut out a TON of content that he actually did film or stage (Elronds sons being in it for example, he actually did have x2 people picked to play those but the studio made him cut them).

It was the studios and investors that made him change TT and RoTK into a more action fighting movie than the firsts more stealthy approach.

They changed the ending too because it was said they were going to add the shire arc for the finally (sharkie vs the shire) but again the studio made them change that.

>>211879083
>studios and investors
Weinstein.

To be fair Weinstein was objectively good at making the decisions that made more money even if it was artistically worse.

>>211870659
>Eowyn's line delivery is also super cheesy
books Eowyn's vs the witch kings is super kino, it's a pity they botched it
>“Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!"
>A cold voice answered: 'Come not between the Nazgûl and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye."
>A sword rang as it was drawn. "Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may."
>"Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!"
>Then Merry heard of all sounds in that hour the strangest. It seemed that Dernhelm laughed, and the clear voice was like the ring of steel. "But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.”

>>211879515
Anon this is too long

They simplified it because of retards

>>211879515
That wouldn't work in live action, autist.

>>211878671
Scouring couldn't have existed in Jackson's adaptation anyway since he cut too much of book 1 which Scouring calls back to.

>>211879155
>>211879214
weinstein wasn't involved in the production past the early script stages, miramax wanted it cut down to a single movie that's why it ended up at new line cinema.

https://youtu.be/HPmb3Al25pM?feature=shared&t=1502

>>211879515
Dumb girlboss shit

>>211879515
Even as a misogynist, that entire scene is probably my favourite scene in the book. Then Eomer finds her, thinks that she's dead, and completely loses his shit, leading to the most based part of the warcry that they put at the start of the battle in the film.

The film scene is borderline satire by comparison. Especially when it's immediately followed up by her crawling around on the ground like a cripple while the especially hideous orc follows her around.

This thread is going to die soon so no one will care about this, but the movie's quality is heavily tied to the quality of the original material. FOTR is linear and streamlined, with just a lot of filler in the beginning, so adapting it is fairly straightforward. TT starts chopping up the story and has an enormous SNOOOOOOOREFEST with the talking trees, which are just as much of a mindless gimmick as the ghost army shit. Seriously, what is the logic behind the ents fighting at Isengard but not doing anything at Minas Tirith or anywhere else? And all the filler in TT moves a huge amount of material in the timeline to ROTK, which completely fucks up the narrative pacing.

I don't think Jackson did everything right, in fact he made a lot of mistakes and quite frankly ran out of time and energy towards the end. Nonetheless, it was a massive, massive production and we're not likely to get anything even approaching this level of quality again until AI movies become a thing, probably.

Oh yeah, one last thing...FUCK YOUR SCOURING BULLSHIT BOOK NERDS, NO ONE WANTS TO WATCH CHRISTOPHER FUCKING LEE DEALING WITH A MIDGET UPRISING

>>211871563
Tolkien should've included more transwomen in the Fellowship.

>with the talking trees, which are just as much of a mindless gimmick as the ghost army shit. Seriously, what is the logic behind the ents fighting at Isengard but not doing anything at Minas Tirith or anywhere else?
The attack on Isenguard is called the Last March of the Ents for a reason. That's it for the Ents as a force in Middle-Earth. The power of the Ents, like Elves and the fantastic in general, is dwindling. The coming end of the Third Age signals their doom on Middle-Earth and they know it.

The assault launched against Saruman is the last cohesive act of Ent society. It is impelled purely by a deep and collective fury at how the forces of the White Hand laid waste to surrounding forests. Saruman has just pushed them too far in pursuing his war effort. Even then, it still takes Hobbit-led incitement and a three day Entmoot for the Ents to finally resolve to march.

These are simply not the kind of beings that could be further enticed to wage proxy wars or join a crusade against a distant enemy. The fate of the Ents is sealed, they've just made one last decision to go down swinging at a personal grievance. Even Treebeard has a sense of this as he characterizes the last march as a sad and final hurrah for both himself and all Ent-kind.

>>211880233
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9x6De3KgUO4

>>211849884
>NO YOU
embarrassing as I would expect from a book faggot (learn to write if you like to read) dumbass

>>211877900
conan is god tier but I'd still give it to lotr

>>211853490
>fake padding plots like Aragorn falling
did he not fall off a cliff in the book? I thought he did.

>>211881270
>and a three day Entmoot for the Ents to finally resolve to march.

isn't a three day entmoot like 15 mins in Ent time?

>>211881620
>did he not fall off a cliff in the book? I thought he did.
No, he does not

>>211881270
>cuz da authur syaid soooo!!!

lol

Two Towers is worse than Rotk. The movie is like 70% fanfiction with all the actual plot points being moved to the next movie(and Boromir's death/the kidnapping of Merry and Pippin ahead of time)

>>211882890
TT is by far the weakest of the books too.

>>211871020
>Except the books are like this constantly
Don't make me type the multiple pages of tree descriptions.

>You're posting exceptions, scenes that are noteworthy because they're not like the rest of the movies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXuqJ4c1dxE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzugQBkUrZk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3I8I_i8Syw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tpmid25B_5E
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpOb4v_HGgM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-YJr72ayhA
So it moves from lacking in spirit, to those scenes with spirit to exception to what?

>Film Faramir is essentially film Boromir but without any sympathetic component or redemption
He's going all out.

>>211881274
>A woman
>Lord Theoden's niece!
>She wanted to ride with us but he forbade
This is what you're praising instead?

>>211831827 (OP)
The thing about the LOTR trilogy is that its merits depend entirely on whether you evaluate it as films or as an adaptation. Because just in reference to other movies, they're fucking kino. They set a new standard that most films still fail to live up to. And you have to remember how bad things *could* have been. Jackson pitched Disney on 2 films and they told him to cram it all into one. New line bet their entire studio on it. Us getting 3 3 hour films with most of the story intact, an actual adequate budget, a fully CGI Gollum that actually worked as a character and not a single miscasting for the sake of political correctness was the best deal we could possibly hope for.

The unfortunate reality is that an actual, fully faithful adaptation would be way too fucking niche for the budget these sort of films required. Fellowship with all the Bag End scenes and Farmer Maggot and Tom Bombadil and Bill the Pony's backstory is a much weirder, way less pleb-friendly 10-hour tv series by itself and they weren't making those kinds of shows on television then. The only way to get viable 3 hour theatrical cuts was to edit the shit out of the books and leave just the essential stuff in which is mostly what they did.

My real grievance with the LOTR films isn't that they edited things out, which is just something that was always going to happen, but the parts where they substituted some new material to "modernize" the film or to condense parts. Anything that Boyens wrote instead of Tolkien is incongruous and anachronistic. Characters are misrepresented, dialogue is simplified and dumbed down. It's her doing a bad impression of Tolkien's characters or in the case of someone like Gimli just completely Flanderizing them. But, again, that's part of the devil's bargain you make once you accept anything other than a 1:1 adaptation. If Philippa Boyens was as good a fantasy writer as Tolkien she'd be writing her own popular series instead of bastardizing someone else's.

>>211880869
>FUCK YOUR SCOURING BULLSHIT BOOK NERDS, NO ONE WANTS TO WATCH CHRISTOPHER FUCKING LEE DEALING WITH A MIDGET UPRISING
Based, fuck the Scouring and fuck Bombadil.

>>211883770
If you evaluate the last two purely as movies they're quite bad action movies aimed at stupid teenagers.

>>211883770
Nope. Never read the books nor do I care to but I still found both TT and especially ROTK to be extremely disappointing after how good Fellowship was.

Are they as bad as the hobbit? No, but it's a low bar that shouldn't count as a win. Saying they were not as bad as they could have been is really not a good excuse to hold them in high regard.

>>211883770
>leave just the essential stuff in which is mostly what they did.
LOL

No, TT and ROTK are full of made up crap. It's one thing to cut things(like Bombadil) and streamline/simplify them(like Glorfindel = Arwen), but it's something entirely different to scrap the actual events in favor of entirely new plot points that add no value to the story.

>>211847006
Good point anon, Gimli was in retrospect really meant to be wacky character for kids in the audience to relate to who both added levity and stood in as a Hagrid type figure who the kids could imagine would protect them. Makes it even funnier how old reddit loved his character from the films the most

>>211878671
>The battle for the shire was retarded in the books and served no purpose.
Yeah it just worthlessly showed how much the hobbits had changed and grown through the journey, and that they could protect and lead their people.

>>211848235
Helms Deep is like 2.5 pages in the book iirc but half of the films runtime. I think the parts with treebeard and confronting Saruman in the tower after his defeat is even longer

Fotr >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rotk > TT