>Tell me, why should we fight Gondor's war?

just realized he's the same asshole from titanic

>>211835059 (OP)
In a fight between civilization and barbarism I choose civilization. Simple as.

>>211835059 (OP)
>B-but they're our greatest ally, m'lord! Remember when they suggested that we allow orcs and goblins to immigrate after our birthrates started declining?

>>211835059 (OP)
Why didn't Gandalf just send B-2 stealth bombers to Mordor?

because gondor pays your politicians

>>211835131
The stronger man realizes there's always a third path.

>>211835059 (OP)
Why did he decide to go to war again after initially being against it?

>they have a nuclear submarine

>>211835084
No, that's the guy from I Cladius who gets the idea to make Claudius the emperor

we can’t allow Mordor to have nuclear weapons folks

>>211835059 (OP)
Because Rohan's interests largely overlap with those of Gondor, at least in their region. Because Sauron literally tried to assassinate you, my liege. Because Sauron's proxies attack Rohan's outposts on literally a daily basis and past rulers have done nothing about it. Furthermore, liege, Rohan will not be fighting Gondor's war, but Rohan will be meeting a commitment you have made to your own people for the past decade, sire.

>>211836465
I will add another thing, sire. You should do this because Sauron has said he does not want to make another ring and even if he were, it would be to use it as mere bling, not as the most powerful weapon ever created. But he is very clearly collecting the same materials and using the same processes that are required to make the most powerful weapon ever created, none of which is needed to make sick bling.

>>211835131
jew civilization is shit.

>>211835228
Grima! you were once a man of Rohan! climb down from that tower of envy and evil. free yourself

>The Dark Lord of Ultimate Evil is going to destroy two shitty kingdoms in the middle of nowhere that do nothing but fuck their horses
How was Sauron the bad guy, exactly?

>>211835131
right on brother, that's why i always say the elves should rule over us. they're ainu's chosen people. anybody that doesn't want to be an elf's slave is an orc. anyway, the elves say we should let the orcs live in gondor and rohan. but also the orcs are still bad and you are one if you disagree.

>>211837558
Sauron wanted globohomo

>>211837558
You said it yourself, bait-kun. He's destroying 2 kingdoms that have done nothing to him

>>211837558
source bruh?

>>211837613
>the elves say we should let the orcs live in gondor and rohan
No elf said this. Your beard is showing Mr. Mithrilstone.

>>211835059 (OP)
You think you're gonna be able to trade peacefully with Mordor, fool? Your economy will be in shambles and people will move away to the west. Then the armies of Mordor will just march across the land and run over you.

>>211835131
What civilization?

>>211838546
I think there's a resurgence in Anti-Elvenism because the Men of the West have not yet learned how to be multicultural. And I think Elves are going to be part of the throes of that transformation, which MUST take place. Gondor and Rohan are not going to be the monolithic entities they once were in the last age. Elves are going to be at the center of that. It's a huge transformation for Gondor and Rohan to make. They are now going into a multicultural mode and Elves will be resented because of our leading role. But without that LEADING role and without that transformation, Gondor and Rohan will not survive.

Lothlorien? Lothlorien is a tiny nation with only 80,000 elves. We can't take too many orcs because we rely too much on aid from Gondor and Rohan as it is.
-Barbarellyn Spectrelafidil, Silvan Elf

>>211835131
define what separates civilization vs barbarism
the orcs had culture, industry and great works of infrastructure
what did rohan have?

>>211839090
>Beardstein can't even come up with real elven name

>>211839190
Civilization is when a gaggle of inbred shepherds who were physically and socially confined to their own communities before the early 19th century claim that they invented hellenistic philosophy, and some criminally dense mouthbreather believes it.

>>211835131
i choose barbarism every time. civilization is a meme

>>211839190
>define what separates civilization vs barbarism
The Alps.

>>211839409
This.
Barbarism is south of them btw.

Does Gondor have nukes? I kinda forgot

>>211839409
>My lord! The orcs have crossed the mountain pass! They have mumakil!

>>211835131
Iran is civilization, Israel are the barbarians.

>>211839537
This thread is about Lord of the Rings. We actually have a politics board if you want to talk about current events.

>>211839537
>breaks character
you had one fucking job, orc. one fucking job!

>>211839090

>>211835059 (OP)
>I know you chose me as your king because of my promise not to enter us into any new wars. But Gondor really needs our help in this war they started without consulting us... I mean, they did consult us and we agreed that it was the right course of action even though we publicly told them not to engage in war... okay, long story short, we're going to war and you're fighting for Gondor now
What did Theoden mean by this?

>>211837450
Unironically, if Grima repented and rode with Theoden as he was given the opportunity to, would he be forgiven?

>>211835131
Anne Rand is a joke anon, don’t quote her

>>211839710
Yes. Theoden isn't a sub-human like Helm.

>>211839670
I wonder if Bright was sunk because of the unsubtle elf symbolism

>>211835084
I always think he's dead for some reason because he dies in all his movies

>a sword-day, a red day

Wait... is this a thread about anti semitism?

>>211839694
The Riddermark is a kingdom, not a democracy

>>211839765
Obviously

>>211839822
It's about War of the Ring, schizo.

>>211839822
yes

>>211839710
Was he a wizard? Or did he just learn some very basic magic from Sauroman?

No way he was just a regular human if he could not only figuratively, but also literally poison someone with his words

Or maybe that shit was some on the nose Tolkien crap or a Hackson idea?

>>211836465
>Because America's's interests largely overlap with those of Israel, at least in their region.
No, they do not. We gain nothing by fucking with their regional rivals.
>Because Iran literally tried to assassinate you, my liege.
No, they didn't.
>Because Iran's proxies attack US outposts on literally a daily basis
No, they do not
>The US will not be fighting Israel's war, but the US will be meeting a commitment you have made to your own people for the past decade, sire.
A "commitment" that literally no Americans want. We don't fucking care about Israel. Actually, we mostly fucking hate Israel, and rightly so. And why should they have "rings of power", but we should intervene from their rival obtaining the same?

>>211839884
He didn't literally poison him that was just Jackson's idea

>>211839887
>America, Israel and Iran out of nowhere
Meds. A full dose.

fucking A, i'm out of here before this no-fun retard gets me blanket banned

>>211839190
orcs didn't have culture, industry nor infrastructure, sauron did. dummy

>>211839537
both are barbarians, one side just has more tech

>>211839710
probably, theoden was honorable

>>211839963
>the white race didnt have culture, industry nor infrastructure, picasso did

>>211839822
it always was ...

>>211840213
>sauron is an orc

>>211840213
... whites had all of that before picasso was born anon? i don't understand your joke?

Orcs are just like us they even have little orc babies in little orc cradles.

>>211837897
How many kingdoms has Rohan destroyed in its history?

>>211840492
Zero.

Is there any other civilized place besides Bree, Minas Tirith and Dale?
Gondor's capital did not look much like a city.
All my knowledge of LOTR comes from the trilogy and LOTRO(up to lvl 50)

>>211840535

>>211840090
That side, ironically, being the orcs.

>>211840535
Ah if it isn't Viper Backstabba, my most trusted advisor!

>>211840608
Not a kingdom.
Next.

>>211840596
Minas Tirith was a fortress
Gondor's capital used to be those ruins that the orcs landed boats at

>all this retarded shitposting between men and orcs
I can see why the elves were so eager to go to Valinor: to get away from all of this.

>>211840596
Gondor is actually more populated in the south and minas tirith is also not well populated being near a warzone and all. There's a ton of cities along the river like Pelargir and Dol Amroth which are big cities. Elsewhere you have the evil states to the south and east which have cities, Tharbad is probably the biggest city near the Shire and there's also Dorwinion which has cities out east nearer to Dale.

>>211840396
eww...

>>211840970
volcel if you wouldn't

>>211840608
wheres that book movie? the story about those mountain folk? what happened

>>211839808
>I always think he's dead for some reason
Anon...

>>211840922
Tharbad is in ruins though.
Dorwinion I was not aware of.
I guess it is not as barren as it seems to feel at times.

>>211841097
Random sheep-shagging tribes that lived in Rohan before Rohirrim came and drove them away because they are racist against brown-haired people.

>>211840646
incorrect, the goblins have more tech than the orcs, orcs just have crude metal and wood tech

>>211840877
how do you know? historically they could be a kingdom for all we know

Ok lore nerds explain this to me

They keep talking about "the age of men", where the elves leave and the orcs and magic disappear.

Was the age of men inevitable or a product of defeating Sauron? They keep talking about it like it's a prophecy about to happen. Why even bothering going through all this shit with Sauron if they knew the "age of men" was coming anyway?

The elves talk about it, the council talks about, Gandalf talks about, hell even Aragon mentions it in his battle speech (The age of men come crashing down)

Would there have been no age of men if Sauron wasn't defeated? Or would it just have been later.

>>211840913
cause they're cowards.

>>211841044
definitely wouldn't...

>>211841307
I'm not a lore nerd but I do know it's pretty obviously referring to the fact that LOTR is set on our own prehistoric Earth, so of course there'll eventually be a magicless age of men. That's how all mythology works, it's just a given

>>211839409
kek

>>211841199
brown hair, brown brain. makes sense

>>211840396
>orc mothers with their children
Sauron would never allow this backwards, inefficient method. Orc children would be taken to a group education center where they can benefit from the expertise of orc indoctrina- I mean educators

>>211841137
most of it is in the north which has been raped for millennia so it is pretty barren, the south is the most populous part of Middle Earth.

>>211839884
Book lore IIRC:
It was a mix of Grima poisoning his mind with words/ideas (not literally, but in the way you can persuade people to think a certain way) plus I think subtle magic from Saruman, but this was from Saruman not Grima. Think about Saruman's effect on Theoden in a similar way to how Gandalf inspires people around him to have courage etc.

>>211841203
There is no distinction between goblin and orc in Tolkien. And orc tech is effective and Ingenious, just very ugly.

>>211841307
age of men is an age without elves, it's a worse age because there's less in it. now it's just blade, blood, beer and boobs. which isn't horrible, just worse.

>>211841570
orc tech is stone age. crude and ineffective. also ugly

>>211835131
based not even looking at the seething replies

>>211839884
The book is about politicians using persuasive arguments and material wealth/power to convince men to act against their best interests. One of the best chapters is Saruman playing the victim when Theoden confronts him.
Hollywood couldn’t have anything so antisemitic so instead Wormtongue is a literal name instead of a nickname given him by eomer, and Theoden is under a zombie-spell instead of just bamboozled

>>211841711
>crude and ineffective

>>211839330
nigger you live in the west and are posting on 4chan on a computer. you dont choose barbarism at all, you larp like you wish for that life but nothing is stopping you from moving to the congo right now. go become the white gorrilla of the congo. go rape and pillage to your hearts content

>>211841711
Uhhh no.
An orc Lt. Heals merry and pippin with shit just as effective as elf magic
“He was healing Merry in orc-fashion; and his treatment worked swiftly. When he had forced a drink from his flask down the hobbit’s throat, cut his leg-bonds, and dragged him to his feet, Merry stood up, looking pale but grim and defiant, and very much alive. The gash in his forehead gave him no more trouble, but he bore a brown scar to the end of his days.”

>>211841307
The Age of Men refers to the fact that magic in the LOTR universe becomes rarer and rarer as times go on. Elves are immortals and bound to the world, but without magic, they fade away into shades. That's why all of them are moving to the West beyond the sea where the magical land there can sustain them. So yes, elves were aware that their time in Middle-earth would be limited and that Men would eventually supplant them. This is less a prophecy and more like an application of the rule of the universe, like if you lived for millions of years you'd take continental drift into account when picking your home.
Sauron has nothing to do with the coming of the Age of Men. He offered the Rings of Powers to the Elves to safeguard their powers and allow them to stay in middle-earth forever, which counts as sorta delaying it, but this was a trick and they didn't fall for it. Orcs, although being elvish in origins in some versions of Tolkien's lore, are never mentioned to have the same problem as elves do, and most likely live only just as long as regular humans.
If Sauron had won, it wouldn't have been the Age of Men (although Men would likely still be amongst his lieutenants) nor the Age of Orcs (because Orcs in LOTR are basically subdued to the will of Sauron or whatever Dark Lord is around), it would've been the Age of Sauron where all but him slave away in hellish labors.

>>211841307
They're all talking about that because the elves are leaving Middle-Earth. In the world of LotR this is something that basically everyone who knows something of the elves, knows is happening. The elves are leaving because they all have this longing inside of them to one day go west and be with the gods in Valinor. That's what the Valar intended. Their "power" in middle-earth is slowly declining too.

As a result of the existence of the 3 elven rings, they've been able to create these havens like Rivendell and Lorien where they have more power and it's a little more like first age peak elven period. However, if the one ring is destroyed, the 3 elven rings stop working. If it's NOT destroyed, Sauron wins and they all die or have to run away west.

So the upshot is: this is happening long-term, but the main story of the ring in LotR accelerates it. Very soon after the ring is destroyed, the vast majority of the remaining elves leave.

>>211835131
is it civilized to launch unprovoked missile attacks on another country?

>>211842118
I don't remember that part of the movie.

>>211839694
Yes, that's the only reason they chose Theoden as king. The ONLY reason.

>>211842149
I mean, uh, ballista attacks against another kingdom?

>>211842118
when the country in question is inhabited by people convinced of martyrdom who are racing toward a nuclear bomb, yes lmao

>>211841307
nerd here. It has a few means but to get to all your points:
>was it inevitable or a product of defeating Sauron
probably inevitable but it's sort of because the elves were never meant to be in Middle Earth anyway they just fucked up a lot. Dwarves are just slower to breed and so would always have smaller populations than men. Defeating Sauron did mean the elves had to leave sooner though because their rings also stopped working once the one ring was destroyed.
>keep talking about it like it's a prophecy about to happen
all elves are destined to leave middle earth and join the valar anyway and they were in decline, but helping to defeat sauron was sort of a penance for all the problems they caused by firstly creating the simarils, then invading middle earth, then creating the rings etc.
>would there have been no age of men if Sauron wasn't defeated
men would probably have been Saurons main servants but they would have worshipped him and had shitty lives.

Also men are special to Eru Illuvatar the true God of the universe because a tradeoff for being mortal is that they get to decide the future of the next universe if they are good, hence why if Sauron wins and men became evil then the next Universe or age of man wouldn't come about.

>>211842118
>"Unprovoked"
I love how retards online carry water for Mordor now because they hate Gondor more than anything else.

>>211842167
That’s why a lot of people did, yes. Honestly Theoden’s who political strategy was to condemn the work of his predecessors, first and foremost their endless wars, which the Rohirrim were rightly sick of

>>211842196
the kingdom in question has been "racing" towards the aforementioned magical device for decades. two more weeks.

>>211841745
cattle

>>211842228
maybe some people are sick of fighting Gondor's battles for them.

>>211842362
Gondor needs and deserves help from the Men of the West. Do you not remember what happened to Numenor? Millions of innocent souls lost.

>>211842208
>they get to decide the future of the next universe if they are good
No, the Elves do that too.The ending of LOTR's universe is all the children of Illuvatar (Elves, Men, Dwarves, Ent, Valar, Maiar, and so on) singing the world into existance but without Melkor's evil to taint it.

Men are Master of their own fate (whatever that mean, Mr "I-believe-Bilbo-was-meant-to-find-the-Ring) and when they die they leave the world (but will come back later)

>>211842267
speaking of seething replies

>>211842228
The metaphor should really be reversed. It doesn’t make sense otherwise.

Mordor is a military industrial powerhouse that could’ve easily solo’d the world. They gifted portions of immense wealth and power, in the form of magic rings, to bind other nations to them. Thus, there many nations beholden to Mordor, whether their citizens like it or not. Mordor continuously attacks other nations because conquest is what their culture is built upon. Their strength is undeniable and unchallengeable. What real world nation fits closest to this?

>>211842614
>What real world nation fits closest to this?
Germany.

>>211842659
At the time of its writing, absolutely

>>211842507
nope only men create the next universe with Eru.

>>211842458
>plan ring drop properly with an infiltration team of trained warriors instead of three hobbits who spent their lives eating cheese
>strength gondor and rohan defenses and force a distracting attack away from mordor
>once the ring is destroyed and sauron no more circle the orc forces and end the war

Well they didn't did that so they had to cavalry into a sure death, thank god ghosts showed up

>>211836209
He didn't go to war. War implies they have some ability to fight back.

>>211842781
>”proper infiltration team” succumbs to the influence of the ring
>power-crazed operator returns to Gondor and rallies the west
>Sauron crushes him easily, regains ring, gains dominion over all of middle earth

YOU CANNOT BEAT SAURON WITH SWORDS. The whole point was that only a hobbit, an innately humble creature with no desire for power, would be able to carry the ring as far as he did. Even fucking Sam almost falls to the ring, there’s no way a strike team of rangers would get half as far

>>211842167
>I know I said I'd lower the cost of wheat so that ordinary families wouldn't struggle to afford food but you have to understand that it was much more important to ship all of this gold to my good friend Sauronman who has been unfairly attacked my opponents and who I look up to
Was Theoden just the worst king?

>>211839963
but the orcs had all of those according to tolkien

>>211836465
>rohirrim occupy Dunlending land
>its the Dunlending fault for fighting back
brave

>>211840396
It's a valid criticism.

>>211841795
literally a pile of wood and metal. thanks for proving my point. easily could have been set on fire.

>>211841849
that is tempting anon. very solid point there. I would so join a blood diamond merc group right now...

>>211842031
who knows what that ointment or elixir was. could have been an elf recipe or provided by saruman

>>211842118
only if against jews or nig... i mean orcs and goblins

>>211842596
speaking of cattle...

>>211842659
maybe gaul, but not germany itself. too small of a nation

>>211843189
Tolkien didn't write orcs properly then

>>211835084
He made the world safe for central banking, show some respect.

>>211835059 (OP)
Why didn't Fordo I mean Frodo simply fly the Spirits I mean Eagles to...oh wait I've already said Fordo.

>>211841307
Yes it was inevitable, because Eru ordained it so. In his mind, true beauty can only come about through deep tragedy.

And Yes the rape of Mordor and the illegal assassination of Sauron caused it (as the final link in the chain of events).

When Sauron died the elven rings stopped working because, even though they were not of his make, the craft of ringmaking was his and his alone. HE was the presiding god over rings of power. Rings represented order and might, the finest of industry, all aspects of Sauron.

If Sauron was not defeated then the Elves would linger still, likely being left some uneasy soverignity by the grace and mercy of Sauron, though they would thus diminish, and the age of Men would come but under Sauron's rule as a Lord of Men.

>>211842114
wtf is going on here kek
did white win or was it a draw?

>>211844418
I think the guy who knocked over all the pieces, started sweating profusely and hyperventilating, forgot how to stand up, and threw his bottle walking off stage lost.

>>211842978
The same team would have done if they got there a week before, granted it would have lacked the ticking bomb factor of Gondor falling but they would have avoided the orc troops

>>211835131
The natural state of humanity is barbarism, look where "civilization" got us

>>211839765
Spending a good portion of the budget to cast Will Smith do he could yet again play Will Smith didn’t help.

>>211844567
Then why was the chinaman facepalming?

>>211844744
He's a bugman, he has no emotions.

>>211844744
it's shameful to witness someone behaving in that manner

>>211844832
>>211844812
Was he perhaps overcome with love and grief for the great Mao? Suddenly stricken with overwhelming respect for CCP?

>>211845009
>China...is ascendant

>>211836370
I just finished re-watching I, Claudius. Had no idea. Thanks anon. Have a Pepe.

>>211845176
>This day does not belong to one man, but to all men, blessed by the great worker's union in heaven

>>211835131
There are hundreds of savage countries do you want to invade them all?

I thought it was a LOTR thread...

>>211845443
>men of the west are resisting over-industrialization and invasion by savage peoples led by a globalist superpower that wants to dominate everyone, and they start by corrupting the leaders of the west into allying with them against their own interests.
it IS about LOTR.

>>211845443
I thought we were building a better rice cooker...

>>211845443
>GONDOR CALLA FOR AID..PAC