The problem with cheers is it had some very annoying characters that dragged the show down, as well as very 'dated' writing.

I don't usually even call things 'dated', I like a lot of old shows, many older than cheers, but if you compare Cheers to Frasier they're only about a year apart but Frasier doesn't seem dated in that way. Frasier may seem old but Cheers seems elderly. There were still a lot of good episodes though.

However, the fact that Frasier (the greatest sitcom ever) exists because of Cheers justifies its existence.

OP is a nigger
No I will not elaborate

>>212649972 (OP)
Fraiser has the exact same humor as big bang theory.

>>212650014
Its a great show and i watch it often

You don't like it because you don't leave your home so the concept of someone socializing at a bar is foreign to you. Also you are dumb, so that doesn't help.

>>212650288
And a top kek to you my fellow Shadilay!

>working class people hanging in a bar and comedic situation based on real life situations of people like this?
>how cringe!

>OMG is a show about a upper class citizen living in the hustle and bustle of the big city, it’s so DYNAMIC
>haha omg his friend is so clumsy haha it's so funny seeing him make a fool out of himself haha

>>212649972 (OP)
You're delusional or baiting if you think Frasier is in the same league as Cheers. Cheers is far from perfect but it's comedy was heavily character driven whereas Frasier's was like 40% character driven with Frasier and Niles and 60% cheesy misunderstanding bullshit.
You'll have to explain what you actually mean by dated, because outside of technological differences the average crowd in a Boston bar still acts a lot like these people.

it's a slow burn

Kys you fucking zoomer faggot
Cheer is a greatest of all time show and always will be.
>Cheers to Frasier they're only about a year apart but Frasier doesn't seem dated in that way.
Cheers was 82-93, Frasier was 93-02. Middle Cheers is 10 years apart from middle Frasier you fucking faggot.
>However, the fact that Frasier (the greatest sitcom ever)
It isn't better than Seinfeld or Cheers.

1. Cheers
2. Frasier
3. Seinfeld
4. My So Called Life

>>212650452
Frasier is in a league far above Cheers.
>You'll have to explain what you actually mean by dated,
As I say it's a term I rarely use because it gets used too much and by plebs who just hate old things in general, but here's what I mean in this instance.
The writing on Cheers seems like it comes from a much older type of comedy writing, for example, a cartoonish bully character like Carla is a character that had completely died out by the time Cheers ended. Similarly with Diane, the extremely broadly performed manic ditzy woman. Both of these are 1950s writing room boilerplate.
Something else I didn't like is Sam being supposedly a dunce. That always felt like it was being forced onto his character in a way that didn't seem very realistic.

>>212650360
Both Cheers and Frasier take place in the hustle and bustle of le big city.

>>212650777
>The writing on Cheers seems like it comes from a much older type of comedy writing
Not really. And if this is your claim, Frasier is worse. Most of the time it's le wacky sitcom shit like "Fight with out of touch dad" or "the snooty brothers buy a fancy restaurant and everything goes wrong!"

>>212650858
>Both Cheers and Frasier take place in the hustle and bustle of le big city.
Boston in the 80s was a white, working class Irish place. Seattle was the chic hustle and bustle city.

>haha he sit his clothes on fire HILARIOUS
this is what Fraiser fans think is peak humor

>>212650777
>Frasier is in a league far above Cheers.
Frasier is overrated as shit, the 'high brow' humor is just cheap BBT tier references to high culture shit yuppies like. The only genuinely special parts are Frasier and Niles dynamic and that wasn't even as good as Frasier was in later seasons of Cheers.
Kelsey Grammer downgraded from a complex and original character to a cheesy foppish caricature when he did Frasier.
>cartoonish bully character like Carla is a character that had completely died out by the time Cheers ended.
It isn't used much anymore in sitcoms but it's still 100% a real person that exists. Criticizing it just because it isn't used in cheap sitcoms anymore is stupid.
I'll give you the ditzes Sam banged as being rather cartoonish but even they didn't really go out of style writing wise until the early 2000s.
Sam being dumb only felt forced in earlier seasons because Ted Danson wasn't sure how much of it was supposed to be ironic versus genuine stupidity.

>>212651028
Didn't Frasier basically do the adult equivelant of '2 dates to the prom' multiple times?

>>212651164
>Didn't Frasier basically do the adult equivelant of '2 dates to the prom' multiple times?
I believe so. Frasier is fucking great, but to say it broke some sitcom mold is an ignorant belief. It was just a typical sitcom (which was 99.999% of the time working class people) with snooty rich guys with top notch performances and writing. Cheers was a different beast.

>>212651114

That scene is funny though.

https://youtu.be/HBFl00WSkXE

>>212651224
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWV2bsVEv5c

Exact same type of humor

>>212651126
>Kelsey Grammer downgraded from a complex and original character to a cheesy foppish caricature when he did Frasier.
This isn't completely correct. Frasier was a creature of his environment. In working class Boston at a working class bar, he slummed himself down and wanted to be part of the crew. In upscale Seattle with his even more snooty brother? He stuck his nose up at working class bars and wanted to be as en vogue as possible. It was a wise choice to both do something different and show how Frasier really is. Niles would never hang out in Cheers in Boston.

>>212651271
I'll agree that it made sense for him to develop like that given his change of environment, but it's pretty much an objectively less complex character in Frasier because of that. Instead of Frasier being a mixture of his yuppie background and his working class slob environment, he's just competing with his brother to see who the biggest yuppie is.

>>212651378
I agree, but after writing and playing Frasier for 8 years they needed to do a little something different.
In a very early Frasier ep Frasier was disgusted going to eat at a bar/restaurant that Martin likes because it's beneath him, but the place was like Cheers with food.

>>212651483
I agree with that too. I don't even dislike Frasier as a show at all, I just think it's ridiculous to compare it to Cheers when it was basically just a very well done example of a generic sitcom. Cheers was something different, the only show I'd really even compare it to is Taxi.

>>212651126
>Frasier is overrated
What makes Frasier special is the acting being great and the writing being great. You can talk about it being formulaic, which it is, most sitcoms are, but what makes it good is that it does it extremely well. Also as much as Frasier and Niles are funny the family dynamic is the core of the show. Martin is easily as good a character as Frasier and Niles.
>BBT tier references to high culture shit yuppies like.
A lot of that is being done because Frasier and Niles are meant to be pretentious snobs who think they're more highfalutin than they really are. It's why their dad always gives them shit for it.

>It isn't used much anymore in sitcoms but it's still 100% a real person that exists
>Criticizing it just because it isn't used in cheap sitcoms anymore is stupid.
It's one of the examples of why I think it's dated to watch and not in a positive way. Every sitcom has to have cliches, cliches exist for good reason but it's the way they're used that counts.

Another example of shitty use of generic cartoonish characters is every one of the Frasier episodes featuring Daphnes family, which are by far the absolute worst episodes they ever made.

>>212649972 (OP)
>However, the fact that Frasier (the greatest sitcom ever) exists because of Cheers justifies its existence.
Get a life Frasierfag.

the show actually becomes better when Coach died and Woody comes in

>>212652792
I genuinely think the Rebecca-Sam dynamic had way more mileage than the Diane-Sam dynamic. Once he stopped trying to fuck her and she became an overt and shameless loser it was funny as fuck.

>>212651126
>the 'high brow' humor is just cheap BBT tier references to high culture shit yuppies like.
One of my favorite scenes in Frasier was the one with a sealed copy of EarthBound in the background.