The whole DC cinematic universe was full of drama and failures but this movie is especially legendary in how bad they fucked it up. One of the great Hollywood missteps.

>>212715748 (OP)
>DC cinematic universe
Why did you say that name?

>>212715748 (OP)
>capeslop
Grow up

>>212715748 (OP)
It's a modern Heaven's Gate.

>>212715806
>Heaven's Gate
Fuck no, it's more like The Last Action Hero of superhero movies at best.

SAVE... MARTHA....

>>212715748 (OP)
It was such a surreal experience watching this in theaters and seeing the movie completely lose the audience in the "MARTHAAA" scene. Then it briefly recovered with the amazing Batman warehouse fight that Snyder clearly put more thought into than the rest of the movie, then it lost everyone again with Doomsday.

>>212715900
Last action hero is good. Heaven’s gate is spectacular up to the point where they run out of money.

"Superman dies in the 2nd movie" was considered a wise creative and financial investment for many important businessmen in the world. Don't forget that.

>>212716049
What was the reaction to him dying in the general public? I was only 10 when BvS came out so I wasn’t privy to online or general audience sentiments

>>212716007
>Last action hero is good
I'm more talking about reception.
Last Action Hero on release was a massively overbudgeted disappointment of a film that barely made any money and didn't receive a decent reception until decades later given it was seen at the time as encapsulating the worst excesses of 80s/early 90s action movies, while Heaven's Gate was a masterpiece that was butchered and raped by the studio given they both literally could not comprehend the film and Hollywood producers were deeply threatened by the potential success of it (given if it succeeded it would result in director-driven films dominating for the near future while studios would be left holding the bag). Its failure literally revolutionized and defined the trajectory of the American film industry (I'd argue for the worse the further away we get from it).
BvS is clearly more like the former, though unlike Last Action Hero I personally would never find myself enjoying it or even associating with people that shill for it given most of them are Indians or underage.

>>212716156
This post made me feel old as shit and I'm only 23. The general reaction among all the normies was confusion, there was just dead air in the theater. His death felt weightless (because it was). Nobody watched the movie and was left looking forward to the next chapter which is why Justice League didn't even come close to $1 billion. I particularly remembering watching Avengers Civil War the next month and how much more everyone loved that. By that point no one gave a fuck about Batman v Superman

>>212715791
>cape derangement syndrome
Cope

>>212715948
Too much soul. They all love the "just be nice" shit from the most recent capeslop but if you confront them with something that expects of them even the faintest degree of literacy, they'll get mad.

>>212716193
The way critics ravaged Cimino is very suspicious. They flatter themselves by pretending to stick up for the artist going against the studio, but in this case they were defending the studio for suppressing the excesses of the artist. After it came out, they re-evaluated The Deer Hunter and decided it was a fascist movie and didn't deserve its praise. Not to say Cimino wasn't excessive, he was a tranny weirdo and there was animal cruelty on set, but it was odd how every critic unanimously decided it was the worst movie ever and Cimino never had talent.

>>212716049
They thought he was too powerful to do justice league and keep the other characters relevant. You can almost understand the logic

>>212716156
>I was only 10 when BvS came out
I was 13 when I saw it in 2016, and my parents that weren't ever into Superman comics (my Dad loved edgy, quality capeshit like Miller-era Daredevil and Watchmen when he was a kid in the 80s while my Mom is a woman) watched it and thought the Martha scene was incredibly retarded while they were also baffled by the recasting of Batman and hated Affleck. They also were baffled by Wonder Woman showing up out of nowhere and thought Eisenberg was laughably miscast as Lex despite generally liking him as an actor. They liked everything else though.
I shared their opinion, and I stand by that take especially in retrospect given the most ardent champions of this shitpile are Jeets whose tastes are desensitized by Bollywood and smaller gray matter capacity.

>>212715748 (OP)
The ultimate cut is the greatest comic book movie of all time. I still watch it weekly.

>>212716384
>the most ardent champions of this shitpile are Jeets whose tastes are desensitized by Bollywood and smaller gray matter capacity
You got memed there which isn't surprising considering that both you and your parents aren't very intelligent. It runs in the family, as they say.

>>212716384
>while my Mom is a woman
Why did you need to remark that?

>>212716384
Casting wouldn't have saved Lex, his annoying schizo character in the movie was just fucking awful regardless of Eisenberg's dogshit performance. Even with how much Lex seethes in this new movie you can at least get the impression he's an intimidating businessman. You never got that in BvS, everyone universally shit on him for aping Heath Ledger

>>212716473
>you need high iq to understand superhero moobie saar
Literally the Brown version of picrel lol

>>212716542
>everyone universally shit on him for aping Heath Ledger
Newsflash: Everyone who did that is severely retarded.

>>212716565
You don't deserve the zoomer badge. You're a millennial in all but age and should be treated as such.

>>212716542
>Casting wouldn't have saved Lex, his annoying schizo character in the movie was just fucking awful regardless of Eisenberg's dogshit performance
Obviously Snyder's direction was at fault, it's just that fucking Eisenberg of all people getting casted to play him shifted the blame away from Snyder just not understanding the character to a ridiculous level.
>how much Lex seethes in this new movie you can at least get the impression he's an intimidating businessman
I actually think nu-Lex was the high point of Supergunn, he almost always made me laugh whenever he was on screen and Hoult surprisingly rose to the occasion when it came to giving him comically exaggerated mannerisms and deliveries.
As a matter of fact, I really got the vibe from Supergunn that Gunn really wanted to make a Justice Gang/Lex Luthor movie rather than a Superman one given Superman, Clark, and Lois were easily the least developed and lowest points of the movie (along with the shitty CG/cinematography but sadly that's expected for capeslop).
>>212716522
>Why did you need to remark that?
To imply that because she's a woman she has no interest or history at all with comic book/nerd stuff and therefore her knowledge of that type of stuff wouldn't effect what she thought about the movie given she'd judge it on her own merits.

>>212716638
>You're a millennial
If I were a Milennial I'd
1. like ACCCCK and Warty post-S3 and
2. try and argue that Marvel mogs DC, when I think both are shit that are some of the most glaring symptoms of the problems ruining American film.
I actually managed to convince my cousin who was about to watch Supergunn that we should see Eddington instead, and I feel like I did a public service to him frankly.
>>212716343
>Too much soul
>Post-SP Snyder
>>212716378
>After it came out, they re-evaluated The Deer Hunter and decided it was a fascist movie and didn't deserve its praise.
I think the fact that this insultingly disingenuous depiction of that objectively masterful film has persisted to this day among critics is a sign of just how little their opinions matter; and if anything is a sign of how much influence studios and producers have over film here. It's undisputably the most potent anti-war film the U.S has ever made and is my personal favorite war film; which was also the consensus until the Heaven's Gate debacle.
>Not to say Cimino wasn't excessive, he was a tranny weirdo and there was animal cruelty on set
He was infamously impossible to work with and especially rough with producers and actors; but FFS this was the golden age of American prima donna filmmakers be it Spielberg with Jaws or Coppola with Apocalypse Now. It's clear to me that there's an incentive with the way the studio so ruthlessly fucked over the release of the movie and the media campaign surrounding it that they wanted it to fail.

>>212716522
Women are nerds and they're a majority of capeshit movie audience like the Marvels and Superkek sex split proves.

>>212716156
I was 18 when it came out and basically nobody gave a shit about his death, this wasn't like Han Solo getting killed in Force Awakens (which DID shock tons of people in the theater) because he was actually an established character that people grew up with (Iron Man's death was impactful too for people because by that point he was already around for a decade and was in tons of movies)

>>212716049
>"Superman dies in the 2nd movie"
They should have killed him in the first movie like Excalibur did.

>>212717867
Your unearned chauvinism is a millennial trait and you share their behavior beyond that:
>liking Rick & Morty at all
>crying about capeshit and then eating up A24slop
Whole point of Snyder's films was not to make capeshit which he succeeded in, ironically the reason you despise it despite pretending otherwise.

Are we talking about the theatrical cut or the director's cut? Because I think some people conflate them, and they are very different films, ultimately. One is a Batman movie where Superman shows up sometimes. The other is far more focused on Clark Kent and Superman. (All the important Clark Kent and Lois Lane scenes were cut in theatrical.)

It can't be overstated that the theatrical cut of BvS is an incoherent, disjointed piece of shit. It's not as bad as the Whedon cut of Justice League, but it's a profoundly dysfunctional film. The director's cut is the only one anyone should watch.

So any sentiment about how people felt about this film in theatres is irrelevant because they were watching a dogshit version disowned by its screenwriter.

>>212715748 (OP)
I liked this movie. Also, the director's cut sucks.

>no, you can't have character arcs!
>I want infinite slop!
Reminder there isn't a single MCU character whose story ended in a satisfying way if at all. Snyder tried to save you but you shamed him for it.

>>212717919
But Superman had a horrible gender split, only 32% female
Man of Steel had 44% women in attendance

>>212718307
The director's cut is kino.
>Look at us. This is how it all caves in. Civilization on the wane... manners out the window. But who would believe me? I'm insane.

>>212715748 (OP)
I remember looking forward to this when I was a child. I was still a child when it came out. I was thoroughly disappointed. As a child.

>>212718380
Delicious dialogue all around.

>>212718382
It's not really a film for children. I would be very wary of letting a child watch BvS. It's a comic book version of Excalibur and I'd never let a kid watch Excalibur.

>>212718307
Wow I've never actually seen someone that likes the movie but prefers the theatrical cut. Can you explain your reasoning a bit?

>I'm older now than my father ever was. This may be the only thing I do that matters.
HOLY KINO, TERRIO BE PRAISED.

>>212718564
Terrio hates the move

>>212715748 (OP)
This is such a strange movie because every frame was clearly made by people who cared but for some reason every wrong decision that could have been avoided was made.

I still believe there's a good movie in there hidden beneath all the bullshit that maybe some talented fan editor can bring it out.

>>212718502
There’s nothing in the extended cut that improves the movie to the point of making it not-shit

>>212715948
the batman fight was clearly suppose to be the final act of the film, but they had to shoehorn WW and doomsday for $$$

>>212718715
Terrio hates the theatrical cut, and is unhappy with the lack of creative control he had, but he has never spoken badly of the director's cut. He's way happier with Snyder's Justice League, though.

>>212718780
No, because the Batman fight doesn't parallel Mordred from Excalibur. Half the people who talk about BvS have clearly never fucking seen Excalibur. Fighting Batman parallels Arthur and Lancelot, where Arthur is arrogant and prideful and believes in his own righteousness, shattering Excalibur.
>My pride broke it. My rage broke it! This excellent knight, who fought with fairness and grace, was meant to win. I used Excalibur to change that verdict. I've lost, for all time, the ancient sword of my fathers, whose power was meant to unite all men... not to serve the vanity of a single man. I am... nothing.
Mordred wears the armour that can only be pierced by Excalibur. Why do you think the kryptonite spear is in the movie? Because in Excalibur, Excalibur glows green.

>>212718799
>I was proud of the script when I completed it, but it turns out that when you remove the 30 minutes that give the characters motivation for the climax, the film just doesn’t work…That stuff was later restored in the extended version. I guess it’s called the [The Ultimate Edition].

>So this house of cards that had been built in order to motivate this clash between America’s two favorite heroes made no sense at all. That was what happened with Batman/Superman. The movie was always was going to be dark… But what hurt was the criticism that the script was not coherent, because when I turned in the script to the studio—which they, by all accounts, were happy with—it made sense.

>>212718753
The whole premise of the movie makes no sense in the theatrical version - for example: they cut out the burning of the bodies to frame superman. They also cut out lex lining the bomb chair in lead so superman couldn't see it.

>>212718753
The extended cut makes sense. The theatrical cut does not. Lex's plan makes sense because we actually see him pushing people in front of trains to shut them up. We understand why Superman fights Batman. Why he gives up on talking to him. (Because in the extended cut he travels to Gotham and talks to the families of Batman's victims. And he is told that a man like that can only be stopped with a fist. That words are useless. And he takes that to heart. Talking to Batman is pointless. Batman proves that when he seethes, "I UNDERSTAND!" despite clearly not understanding.

The reason Lex knows that the bell has been rung isn't clear in theatrical. It's clear in director's cut. The whole film is like this. The theatrical cut even removed the explanation of what the are accusing Superman.

Director's cut is a masterpiece. There's nothing else like it. The theatrical cut is a confusing, muddled, disjointed film.

>>212716324
Cape Derangement Syndrome still describes people like you who can't get enough of their heckin superduper heroes beating up bad guys and saving the day.
The world recognizes you as children. Because that's what you are. A child.

>>212718382
Sums it up for me.
>>212718359
It was ironic anon.
>>212718237
>unearned chauvinism
I've seen how dumb and shitty of a person I am and merely recognize that most people are somehow dumber and shittier than me.
I'm not a chauvinist so much as I'm a misanthrope.
>liking Rick & Morty at all
I'm a Zoomer and grew up watching the first three seasons in middle and high school. I guarantee if I rewatched it I'd hate it, but my memories are very fond.
>A24slop
>"Heh, you watch original movies set in reality; what are you, some kind of retard who lacks critical thinking skills?"
>"Rewatch this universally reviled superhero movie made by the guy that made Sucker Punch instead, that's REAL high art!"
>Whole point of Snyder's films was not to make capeshit
And yet he made some of the capeshittiest capeshit to ever capeshit, down to the comical deus ex machinas, hammy acting, and ridiculous outfits.

>>212716156
> What was the reaction to him dying in the general public? I was only 10 when BvS came out so I wasn’t privy to online or general audience sentiments

Nobody gave a shit. Had more people upset when a talking tree died in Guardians.

>>212715748 (OP)
>brooding sociopath man vs negligent homicide man

>>212718984
The theatrical cut removes pretty much every scene of Clark and Lois being journalists. That whole angle was excised in favor of only having scenes of Batman being dark and brooding. Apparently the studio felt that the film would be better to focus on Batman with Superman being secondary, so they had all the scenes of Lois investigating Lex removed, and all the scenes of Clark investigating Batman removed, and all the scenes of Lex setting up his conspiracy removed. Daft, daft decisions that hurt the film to this day because it's very obvious there are a bunch of people who have never seen the director's cut. Their criticisms are entirely based on a half-remembered theatrical cut.

>>212719074
Watch the extended cut.

>>212719080
You say that but literally all the comments on the YT videos for the film are people talking about how incredible Superman's death is, and drawing direct parallels to that famous painting of Jesus being lowered from the cross. I think you're mistaking the opinions of autistic nerds for the opinions of general viewers.

>>212719206
>people
Indians and Milennial capeshit fans aren't people

>>212719238
I feel like Indians are not the people fixated on the Christian symbolism of Snyder's movies.

>>212719238
The Snyderjeet meme isn't real, retard.

>>212719206
> I think you're mistaking the opinions of autistic nerds for the opinions of general viewers.

Yeah, general viewers loved it. Nice revisionist history

>>212719274
>Christian symbolism of Snyder's movies
If that's the case, that is even more retarded than that certain subtype of EVA fans who claim it's a Christian story because of "le crucifixion imagery"; except Anno himself didn't play into the meme and explicitly said "yeah I copped that from an episode of Ultraman because I thought it was cool, I'm not really religious but if you appreciate it from that angle that's really cool ¯\_(ツ)_/¯" while Snyder is all "UH THIS BECAUSE MY MOVIE IS LE DEEP AND BIBLICAL AND SHIT BECAUSE I LIKE LE ART"

>>212719274
Where were these muh Christian symbolism when Superman Returns came out? All the fucking movies, with Superman getting stabbed in side with Kryptonite spear of destiny.

>>212719408
If you are sincere at all about the topic, read this:

https://thesymbolicworld.com/content/the-symbolic-structure-of-movies-batman-v-superman-2016-part-i

https://thesymbolicworld.com/content/the-symbolic-structure-of-movies-batman-v-superman-2016-part-ii

>>212719002
Sadly the phrase you only get one chance to make a good impression applies. The theatrical cut of BvS will always be the version shopped around/streamed forever tainting it's legacy.

Many failed movies which later got fixed will never get a proper critical reappraisal. Examples: Waterworld Ulysses Cut and Kingdom of Heaven Director's Cut. Both pure unfiltered kino.

>>212719341
Why do you keep conflating the fucking terrible theatrical cut of BvS with its director's cut? Over the past couple of years I've noticed people persistently trying to do this and it's weird.

I never see people trying to conflate the theatrical and director's cuts of Kingdom of Heaven or Blade Runner in this way.

>>212716522
Why DID he feel the need to specify that his mother was a woman?

>>212719471
Nobody watched Superman Returns. That's the reality of it. It's a boring fucking movie that everyone forgot existed.

>>212719612
>Waterworld Ulysses Cut
There is literally nothing you could do to make that movie better other than to make it fun dumb schlock. It is by all objective metrics the worst and most nonsensical dystopian setting in the history of film and possibly art.

>>212719612
>The theatrical cut of BvS will always be the version shopped around/streamed forever tainting it's legacy.
I was under the impression that streaming services pushed the director's cuts of both BvS and JL. I suppose it'll take time for that to sink in.

>>212719206
This shot is shit. This movie is shit

>>212719681
The setting of Waterworld is fine. Its literally Mad Max except what if all the ice caps melted.

>>212719623
> I never see people trying to conflate the theatrical and director's cuts of Kingdom of Heaven or Blade Runner in this way.

You seriously comparing this piece of shit to those two movies? Kill yourself already.

>>212719341
Wait why did 2003 Hulk flop?

>>212719793
>This shot is shit.
Elaborate.

>>212719801
Batman v Superman Director's Cut is a better film than both of them, let's be real here. It's incredible. Kingdom of Heaven is good, but not BvS good.

>>212719532
>If you are sincere at all about the topic, read this
You know what, I think I will given I've come to realize you're both too sincere and have unhealthily analyzed this move too much to be an Indian. If I'm convinced, I'll watch the ultimeme edition tonight.
If not, then whatever. Either way I'll effortpost about this schizo ramble and analyze it from my pov.

>>212719794
>Its literally Mad Max except what if all the ice caps melted.
That would actually be cool and interesting, except picrel is the worst case scenario if that happened.
Really that's only one of the many, MANY problems with this setting on a fundamental level.

>>212718380
>>212718502
>>212718753
Holy crap, stop it. Stop acting this way. You're not being human; you're literally acting like NPCs, regurgitating lines of code fed into you. I refuse to believe you've seen both versions, because NO ONE who's see the director's cut could claim it's better in any way whatsoever. It is a complete and utter mess.
>LITERALLY removes half the Batman vs Superman setup
>scenes that were about Superman being angry at Batman's brutality in the theatrical are instead about Superman and the awful courtroom drama subplot
>scene after scene after scene of Lois Lane investigating a fucking "mystery" the audience was told the answer to an hour before
>scene after scene added about Lex's plan THAT WE ALREADY KNOW THE FUCKING ANSWER TO
The director's cut is not "Batman v Superman"; it's "LEX LUTHOR'S MAGICAL PLAN THAT WE TELL YOU ABOUT IN THE FIRST FIVE MINUTES THEN MAKE YOU WATCH THE PROTAGONISTS SLOWLY FIGURE OUT OVER THE COURSE OF FIVE HOURS."

>>212720080
It's not supposed to be a twist for us. We know things the characters in the film don't know. This is how movies for adults work.

>>212720129
>It's not supposed to be a twist for us
>We know things the characters in the film don't know
>This is how movies for adults work
Bad ones, yes.

>>212720080
>>LITERALLY removes half the Batman vs Superman setup
No, it establishes the philosophical underpinnings of their conflict.
>scenes that were about Superman being angry at Batman's brutality in the theatrical are instead about Superman and the awful courtroom drama subplot
The entire point is that both Batman and Superman are being gaslit about each other. The whole point is that while he has gone off the rails Batman isn't as bad as people say he is. He doesn't know what's really going on.
>scene after scene after scene of Lois Lane investigating a fucking "mystery" the audience was told the answer to an hour before
It doesn't matter if we know. What matters is that the characters in film figure it out plausibly.
>scene after scene added about Lex's plan THAT WE ALREADY KNOW THE FUCKING ANSWER TO
Lex's plan doesn't have an answer. His plan is stupid and cruel and spiteful. The point is to understand how it was supposed to work. Also, the theatrical cut removed the god-tier line.
>You've lost, Lex.
>I DON'T KNOW HOW TO LOSE!
>You'll learn.

>>212720171
Consider the movie The Insider by Michael Mann with Jor-El from Man of Steel playing the main character. We know how this will pan out. We know tobacco companies are evil. We know their lies will be exposed. The interesting part is seeing how it works.

>>212720203
>No, it establishes the philosophical underpinnings of their conflict.
How does it do that, when Superman is literally focused on the trial and the stupid Lex plot and never even thinks about Batman?
>The entire point is that both Batman and Superman are being gaslit about each other.
You're not listening to me. I'm talking about the scene when Superman's cooking eggs. In the theatrical, he's upset at news about Batman's brutality. In the director's cut, he's watching some bullshit report about Lex framing him. It has nothing to do with Batman in the director's cut.
>What matters is that the characters in film figure it out plausibly.
Dramatic irony is bad writing.

>>212715948
just wondering but wasnt the theatre cut not Snyders OG and was fucked with? Thats the whole point of the latter Synder Cut? Just asking.

>>212720242
The issue is that this is not a film about how complicated structures that influence or exert authority in the real world work through the PoV of a character that is either naive to this world like we are or experienced so we can be introduced to his pov and the workings of his job/routine, this is a shitty superhero movie about nothing relevant to us at all and completely detached from reality.

>>212719885
> Wait why did 2003 Hulk flop?

People thought it was boring. Why they rebooted it Norton but it under performed because people were so turned off with the Ang Lee one

>>212720289
>and never even thinks about Batman?
Did you even watch the director's cut? There's an entire subplot where he takes the ferry to Gotham after Lex has an envelope full of newspaper clippings about the evil Batman and his victims placed on his desk. Superman isn't even aware of Batman until Lex shoves it under his nose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCik5tlh3m8
>I'm talking about the scene when Superman's cooking eggs. In the theatrical, he's upset at news about Batman's brutality. In the director's cut, he's watching some bullshit report about Lex framing him.
Because in the director's cut he isn't aware Batman exists. He's too busy being distressed that witnesses are claiming they saw him commit mass murder on live TV despite the fact he didn't kill anyone.

Superman is disoriented and distracted for much of the film (which was Lex's intention), which is why goes to the mountains to speak to his father in his mental fortress of solitude.

>>212720483
I don't like the argument that when a new film bombs it's the fault of the previous film. People try to make excuses for a reboot flopping when that reboot's entire creative direction and marketing scheme was "Not like the previous one, look at how different we are."

>>212720487
>he takes the ferry to Gotham from Metropolis
>Superman isn't aware Batman exists
Small details like these are why this movie is retarded and doesn't work.

>>212720555
Perry sends him to Gotham to cover the football game. But in an earlier scene he discovered an envelope full of clippings about "The Batman" on his desk. More particularly, a story about how this Batman is branding people, and those people are being murdered in prison. (Which is Lex's scheme.) So when he goes to Gotham to cover sports, he takes a detour to speak to the families of the dead men.

What do you mean by "doesn't work"?

>>212720524
> don't like the argument that when a new film bombs it's the fault of the previous film.

You may not like it but that’s how it works. Most people don’t pay attention to insider shit. They go see a Hulk movie and they think it’s terrible and then see a preview just a few years later for a new Hulk movie and they are not going to want to see it. Same thing happened to Batman after Batman and Robin ruined the brand. Begins came out and it did not have a good opening weekend. It only made 48 million domestically. But good word of gag for legs and rebuilt the audience which led to Dark Knight making a billion

>>212720688
Explain why the new Dune films made so much money, then.

>>212720658
>>212720487
The scene of him talking to people in Gotham is literally the only scene that could have made it to the theatrical, but you're overselling it. It's literally like two minutes long, and they just say
>Batman is mean now.
Also I'm glad you brought up the bullshit with Lex framing Batman, because it wasn't like that in the theatrical. The theatrical actually left it ambiguous as to whether bat-branded criminals were getting prison justice, whereas the director's cut just says
>LOL IT WAS ALL LEX
Such complete and utter bullshit. Ruins the movie with this shit.

>>212715748 (OP)
it truly blows my mind that Zack thought it was a good idea to blow through so many iconic Superman events in just 3 films.
>Superman's origin story
>General Zodd
>Batman vs Superman
>Lex Luthor's son manipulating Bruce and Clark into fighting each other
>Doomsday
>the formation of the Justice League
>The Death and Return of Superman
>and some Darkseid and Apokolips
i have no fucking idea what he thought was left to work with after Justice League.

>>212720688
I think it's overstated. People tried to argue that Dredd 2012 flopped because of Dredd 1995, instead of being willing to admit that general audiences really don't like Dredd 2012's tone, creative direction, or story. It's this kind of "It's the previous film's fault nobody likes our reboot" cope.

>>212720786
He only wanted to make 5 films. Film 4 would be the Knightmare. Film 5 would be "THE WHOLE WORLD BECOMES THE JUSTICE LEAGUE", recreating the final Armageddon between the forces of Earth and Darkseid's army.

>>212716343
people with media literacy don't like snydershit

>>212716461
Same movie, retard.
You are a child with childish tastes

>>212720758
The point is that in the film Batman has lost his marbles. He's rampaging around and has no idea what he's doing anymore. Lex is prodding him. "Ripe fruit, his hate."

>>212720847
that does make it make a little more sense.

>>212720998
There was always a disconnect between what Snyder wanted to make and the sprawling films-as-homework cinematic universe WB wanted, like Marvel's awful movies where they're all commercials for the soulless team-up movie.

I know that works commercially, but holy shit Avengers Endgame is a shit movie. It has no redeeming qualities. It's a terrible time travel movie with a bad script, and all the emotions people feel about it are completely manufactured from a structure imitating a TV season finale. It's important and emotional because this is the finale, not because any of this has any real weight.

>>212718237
>hole point of Snyder's films was not to make capeshit
Instead he made capeshit not even capeshitter like, let alone normal people.
It flopped for a reason.There is no market for badly written and directed high budget teen angst

>>https://thesymbolicworld.com/content/the-symbolic-structure-of-movies-batman-v-superman-2016-part-i
>His sacred spaces are symbolized by “mountains”, such as the one where he meets with his deceased father’s apparition / spirit. These are places far from all traces of man, it is his divine “kingdom” which when entered, even allows him to have conversations with deceased and symbolically charged figures like his father.
Superman's sacred place is the Fortress of Solitude, not anywhere located in the rest of the world which is something that Snyder explicitly left out in his failed attempt to "humanise" Superman. You could make the argument that he's supposed to be Hyperborean given he fits the archetype of the Hyperboreans while his sacred place being located in a space virtually impenetrable to man even now would underline this. You could also argue that his vision of Jor-el in the mountains is supposed to be a reference to the agony of Christ in the Garden or that the Fortress represents a "Throne" in the gnostic/Enoch sense.
>Batman conceives an opening with the divine (because of an inner conflict resolved, as per what we’ll see further). This opening, without denying the Fall, suggests a possibility for humanity not to build a paradise (which would be Promethean, like Babel), but to rebuild what is destroyed by their downfall.
If anything, this is more Zoroastrian than it is Christian given it is preaching a more violent form of dualism by suggesting that this conflict is played out in a grand clash rather than on an individual level. Superman is Zoroaster, his father being Ahura Mazda, Ahriman being Lex, while Batman and Wonder Woman are supposed to represent mankind trying to find their way amidst this clash of titans.
>The objects in the film are associated with men and not with the divine
To the detriment of the film imo, given it places too much emphasis on the main characters and what they represent in contrast to the world and setting.

>>212718485
Worse, it's for teenagers

>>212720745
Lynch’s Dune was made 37 years when the new one came out. Most people that saw Dunc probably didn’t even know the movie.

Why did Warner Bros have no dc movies lines up for 2014 and 2015 after having once dc movie a year with Jonah Hex green lantern the dark night rises and man of steel

>>212721231
>Superman's sacred place is the Fortress of Solitude, not anywhere located in the rest of the world which is something that Snyder explicitly left out in his failed attempt to "humanise" Superman.
Snyder Superman's fortress is an internal place he goes when he is alone. It's more akin to the idea of a prayer closet, a quiet place to be alone with God.

>>212719130
Same shit, longer

>>212715748 (OP)
It had lofty ambitions and was sabotaged by
>having too much to establish in one film for a DC universe
>forced doomsday to kill superman as a plot point, no doubt pushed by suits
>gadot is a shit ww and a worse actress
>weak cgi ruining the artistic merits it had
>followup was ruined by suits meddling further
if we got JL part 1 and 2 proper, it would have been fucking amazing. Even what we got is better than most Marvelshit just because its intent was pure. Zack does need someone to rein him in a little though.

>>212720524
A dc movie in which the Joker gets raped came out last year.

>>212721296
MoS was their hail mary attempt to coattail ride the MCU, and they barely believed it would work.
(it actually didn't work, they were always a distant 4th against the Marvel slate).

>>212719206
Snyderparrots that don't exist irl, bot
Snyderverse never ever

>>212721328
>if we got JL part 1 and 2 proper, it would have been fucking amazing. Even what we got is better than most Marvelshit just because its intent was pure.
Purest delusion, saar.

>>212720816
You can’t blame a movie for bombing 17 years ago for it not succeeding. That’s plenty enough cooling off period. Most these aren’t even getting a few years before they remake them

>>212715748 (OP)
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/_BKWX6ATXyk
<3

>>212719532
>pareidolia
If you have a normal brain move on, retard

>>212719975
BvS is 2/10
You are just a contrarian

Lmao there is always a retard who allows the residdent snyderfaggot to draw him to his own level, giving the impression that this shit movie that flopped ages ago is discussed.
Jus say: "no, it's shit" like any other normal person and laugh at him.
All he has is impotent rage because a bad movie flopped ages ago

Look at Wolverine Origins. Like MOS, it crashed 67 percent is second weekend. They fired the director and get Mabgold to do The Wolverine. Origins made 85 million domestically and The Wolverine made 53 million in its opening weekend. Yet The Wolverine didn’t crash and burn and rebuilt its audience. Leading into Logan which made 619 million to Origins 373 million

>>212721231
>Kryptonite is in particular forged to make it a weapon, a spear. This detail is not trivial since the lance of Longinus is what pierced the sides of Christ in his passion, from which escaped water and blood.
Except it is trivial and redundant, because beyond the visuals of Superman getting stabbed in the side and "dying and rising" it provides no narrative/thematic depth or purpose to these characters or their story.
>As we have seen, the movie binds together (symbol) meanings and characters so as to create a picture or painting of different forces both within and without characters, at the micro and macro level
A film heavily utilizing traditional Western religious and esoteric symbolism does not make it inherently "good", especially when it does not utilize these motifs effectively or in a cohesive, effective narrative. And on all other levels, especially regarding acting and many of the visuals, it is not engaging for a casual viewer or a cinephile given /film/ is not merely a visual but also an audio medium.
>That Superman represents a manifestation of a superior and virtuous principle is beyond his ability to conceive, and so his view is distorted and reduces the figure of Superman to the material plane.
Except Superman isn't a human being or a God, he's an alien.
If anything, HE would be the Prometheus figure (something else Snyder overlooked in his screenplay/worldbuilding) bringing something magical from the Chariot of the Gods to mankind. Luthor derives his motivation and paranoia from this fact, and in many ways the fight against Zod and the idea that Superman could potentially bring the apocalypse by merely being present on Earth is what makes Luthor and those subscribed to his worldview so powerful and persistent. If anything, going by Greek allegories Lex and all the villains Superman faces represent the dogs eating the liver of Prometheus and perpetually binding him despite Prometheus always recovering.

>>212716156
I don't know how many memes I saw saying people cared more about Yondu's death than Superman's

>>212721890
This. I remember those.
Snyder movies were universally derided

>>212721635
There’s no defending this movie, at all. Let’s say you honestly try to claim the first 2/3rds of the conflict with Batman and Superman is done well (it isn’t but whatever). That still leaves the last 3rd of the movie with Doomsday and Wonder Woman and Superman dying which is catastrophic. At BEST the movie can only be considered a 6/10 which is not what you want for a major blockbuster epic that was supposed to make at least $1.2 billion

>>212722087
I got sad when Superman died.

>>212721328
>>forced doomsday to kill superman as a plot point, no doubt pushed by suits
Anon, have you seen Excalibur?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZEqMqBLOOI
Superman dies because King Arthur dies in Excalibur. While the studio forced him to make BvS the film itself is a direct reflection of Snyder's overwhelming fixation on Excalibur (the film that was playing at the theatre the night Bruce's parents died.)

>>212718485
Excalibur can be understood by children implicitly, on some level. Kids should be talked to as if they were just small people. Foster their growth and set up their minds to allow room for later expansion. People babying kids is why we have manchildren and womanchildren all over the place now.

>>212721813
>Lex Luthor therefore, the man of speech, is a figure of subversion and opposition who characterizes the imperfect relationship of human speech and the corruptible mass.
Luthor is the anti-Superman this guy accidentally describes Doomsday as given he's supposed to represent Gnosis fighting an unwinnable, eternal war against God.
As a matter of fact, I think a lot of this movie would be more interesting and make actual sense if Snyder framed it as Christianity/Zoroastrianism vs. Gnosticism.
>It is Luthor’s Promethean spirit that corrupts Batman through subversion and ignorance and gives him a faulty perception of reality
If anything Luthor here represents either Gnosis or the Devil here, not Prometheus or any other Greek stuff.
>Batman himself is a very “Freudian” character
If anything he's a Jungian one given Batman/Bruce Wayne represents the Persona and Shadow perfectly. I have no clue where this guy got anything Freudian from him even after reading this.
>Martha (a name that resonates with biblical symbolism)
Except the Biblical Martha doesn't relate to the story at all, espceially in a Freudian context like this guy suggests given Freudianism is inherently at odds with Christianity.
>Batman is the centurion who was the first to cry out “Really, this was the Son of God!”.
Are you serious lmao.
Really, this is all I expected: somebody well-read who is reading far, far too much into a convoluted, poorly executed, and bizarrely pedantic film to the point of apophenia.

The movie could have been good if it was stricly limited to Lex manipulating Batman and Superman into a fight, but adding in Wonder Woman, the JL and Doomsday just ruins it. Way too much schlock. Everything else was great.

>>212722087
you get 6/10 if you sum the ratings of MoS and BvS

>>212722476
The movie could have been good if itwas completely different and made by different people

>>212719885
Hulk has always been shit, nobody ever cared about it.

>>212722174
It was handled badly, I know it's a parallel.

>>212720023
boy I sure hope someone got fired for that blunder!

>>212722476
>The movie could have been good if it was stricly limited to Lex manipulating Batman and Superman into a fight
This is pretty much what I'm trying to say. If Zack were smart he would've gone with this route for a simple "Gnosis vs. Christ" movie that would've been fun. Implying Doomsday in the Director's Cut for a sequel (or Justice League) would've been far more interesting.

why does fatman look like a toy

>>212720745
New generation, people who were old enough when Lynch Dune came out had fucking kids they would take to see Dunc if they cared about it. It's why they're remaking Harry Potter again, the cash cow has more left in her udders.

>>212719623
The theatrical cut is what people are going to see in the theaters and what is being judged on. No one outside of internet losers even knows there's a director's cut. If you can't make a watchable film for a theater then you shouldn't be directing movies.

>>212715748 (OP)
The ultimate edition really isn't a bad movie at all.
But i think Jesse Eisenberg should have played the Riddler instead and Superman dying in the second film was a terrible idea. Nolan was against him dying and they should have listened.

>>212723080
>ur a le nerd if you point out this retarded scenario that takes itself seriously is retarded on its face!
Disregarding this, how did people completely forget about everything in the span of only 500 years to the point of returning to Phoenician-level tech and knowledge? Why is it that nobody simply settled the last remaining "dryland" and established a new civilization there? Why is "dryland" located in Japan instead of the Tibetan Plateau? How does anyone get crude oil in this scenario (unless they whale which is not shown)? Why are people with gills discriminated against despite this being an exceptionally valuable adaptation every women would want?

>>212716156
More people talked about the sloppy way the resolution between the heroes was done than talked about Superman's death, which is not what you want as a filmmaker. The "Save Martha" "Why did you say that name" memes started very quickly, and some of them continued for years. But as for what people did think of the decision to kill him off so early, opinion was not positive. People especially thought it was silly to do this right as you're going into a Justice League movie.

>>212721394
The plot buildup was great, Knightmare was going to be better than any other capeshit by far.

>>212718920
Feel a little bad for the guy, seeing as his career has gone from winning a screenplay Oscar to making studio-meddled franchise slop.

>>212715948
I wouldn't have minded the Martha scene if it wasn't so poorly set up and then executed.
>movie's opening scene lingers on Bruce's dad saying "Martha" in his dying breath
>Bruce visits parents Graves in a nightmare and the camera specifically centers on 'Martha Wayan'
>Lex reveals he kidnapped superman's mom and says "Martha, Martha, Martha"
>once superman says 'Martha', Bruce has back to back flashbacks of the opening scene with his dad saying Martha and then nightmare showing Martha's name again, because apparently the audience was too fucking stupid and needed a reminder that Batmans mom's name is indeed Martha

It is actual garbage put on film.

>>212723573
Pure delusion.

>>212723768
But you see, Martha was a name in the bible, so that means this was smart.

>>212723789
Post an argument anytime.

>>212722174
>Anon, have you seen Excalibur?
Yes, and it brutally mogs this film.
Hell, Zack should just remake Excalibur but with slow-mo and bigger tits.

>>212723902
The argument is snydershit being universally derided, no snyderverse and snyder flopping on netflix with rebel moon

>>212715748 (OP)
The extended edition is actually alright and makes the movie a 7/10
JL is like 4/10 and the new superman is 2/20. The new superman is like RGB led fans for retards

>>212723768
The screenplay of the film is horrible. You can't save it, it's just not possible. The irony is that the actual battle between Batman and Superman was good but it didn't matter when the story is insufferable.

>>212723939
I don't care about anything else he did, unlike you, who seems to care an awful lot for someone they dislike. Pretty weird behavior.

>>212719006
>"I Know you are but what am I," but written by a midwit
You have one of the symptoms of Cape Derangement Syndrome

>>212724405
Nobody ever would care if you did just shut up and enjoyed your bad movie, retard.
But noooo, you hat to spend a decade and more shitposting about "dogshit movie nobody ever liked is secretly good"
Stop crying

>>212724622
You literally came into a thread about something you hate just to cry about it. Mighty fine hypocrisy, kid.

>>212724840
>You literally came into a thread about something you hate
Because it's a hater thread? Retard.
>>212724436
>Cape Derangement Syndrome
Also known as having a brain.

>>212719793
KYS INDIAN

>>212724871
>Also known as having a brain.
That's also another sign of Cape Derangement Syndrome, overestimating your intelligence

>>212724871
>uptalk
Boy, you're really outing yourself here. Back to the point, imagine this scenario: you just like things, as you said before, quietly, and you don't make threads about them, and you don't post about them. Gee anon, it's almost like it doesn't actually matter what you do, people will talk shit regardless. Very strange, then, to come and cry about a thread where people say what they want. You are bitchmade.

>>212725104
>overestimating your intelligence
Back to the Rick and Morty argument of "actually, you need to be a genius to understand this retarded thing made for retards"
>>212725211
But I agree with you, I hate this movie.

Ope. The autistic retards are fighting. Abandon thread

>>212725707
>The autistic retards are fighting
wheredoyouthinkyouare.jpg

>>212725321
>Suddenly bringing up Rick and Morty out of nowhere

Yeah that's another sign of Cape Derangement Syndrome

>>212725766
>>Suddenly bringing up Rick and Morty out of nowhere
>anon can't go back in the thread because he can't read
see >>212716565
>>212721301
>Snyder Superman's fortress is an internal place he goes when he is alone
I was responding to the article that guy posted where the article said Superman has a spiritual attachment to mountainous terrain and hears Jor-El in the mountains in that movie because of the bible; when IF there were a place that would be seriously holy for Superman it'd be the fortress, which is not in BvS nor MoS.
Frankly, if he went with your angle it'd be a lot better and defensible if he went with it even if I'd disagree.

>>212716156
>I was only 10 when BvS came out
Jesus.

And no one cared. The movie was widely mocked

>>212725917
>Cape Derangement Syndrome causing deranged denials about bringing up Rick and Morty out of nowhere

>>212716156
From what I recall the general reaction was apathy, because it was too soon for them to ACTUALLY kill off Superman, so everyone knew they'd just bring him back in the next major DC movie (and big surprise they did).

The DCEU's main problem wasn't just being edgy, it was them speedrunning all the major conflicts and events from comics. In the span of two movies they were already doing Dark Knight Returns and Death of Superman, Zod, Jason Todd and Doomsday are all dead, and we've introduced Batman and Wonderwoman before they'd had any movies of their own. It was so concerned with having the big hype moments that it forgot to do any actual setup

>>212716301
>This post made me feel old as shit and I'm only 23
Same, I'm turning 22 next week :(

>>212726546
They were desperate and eager to get to their Avengers-tier movie and when they got there it was a clusterfuck disaster

>>212721890
More people were worried about a CGI Raccoon dying than Superman.

Most weren't on board with Man of Steel Superman and we only had a 1 movie and it's "HOLY SHIT HE'S DEAD!" then having Superman kick his coffin open right at the ending while winking at the camera "I'M NOT ACTUALLY DEAD, LEL, WATCH THE NEXT MOVIE WHEN I COME BACK!"

>>212727551
Superman’s characterization in the Snyderverse was fucking awful, how could anyone care about him or look at him as a hero?

>>212715748 (OP)
What exactly was wrong with it.

>>212715748 (OP)
Cope gunntranny

>>212727629
Snyderbros telling Gunnbros to cope when Gunn's currently the one in charge of all of DC's movies and Snyderverse is shuttered like an abandoned mall is always hilarious.

>>212727675
Gunn has yet to make a single profitable DC movie

>>212726546
>killing off superman
I remember that being my one pet peeve with the movie

>>212726546
>From what I recall the general reaction was apathy, because it was too soon for them to ACTUALLY kill off Superman, so everyone knew they'd just bring him back in the next major DC movie (and big surprise they did).
This is people with MCU-brain, though. Snyder was going to kill Batman. PERMANENTLY. Superman's death is part of a 5 film arc where his death, resurrection, and then his temporary fall were all part of a fairly concise narrative.
>It was so concerned with having the big hype moments that it forgot to do any actual setup
What setup? Excalibur didn't have setup for the death of King Arthur, speared through the chest by Mordred the abomination. Those other films aren't important. Wonder Woman and Aquaman and films like that aren't even canon to the Snyder films. The only films that are important are the ones Snyder directed. Everything else is fluff. This isn't the fucking MCU with its bloated TV-show style narrative.

>>212715948
>>212716156
My theater was packed, but halfway through the movie, people started leaving. The guy sitting next to me even got a headache and wanted the movie to end sooner. It was the most horrible theatre experience I have ever had and one I will never forget.

>>212726546
>>212727785
Can someone explain to me by Jesus dying and being resurrected in the same movie was fine for every Jesus movie ever, including Passion of the Christ, but people got upset when Superman did it?

>>212715748 (OP)
>enitre advertising is Batman vs Superman
>trailers spoiler Doomsday
>trailers spoiler wonderowman
>entire fight is just a copy paste of Dark Knight Returns
It was destined to fail because Batman fighting superman is always dumb especially when it’s because superman saves the city from destruction

>>212727890
Because it’s not in the same movie. Snyder probably should’ve made it so Superman was actually alive and hiding somewhere in the post credits scene

>>212727608
Theatrical cut was a mess that had 30 minutes of critical scenes cut out. But the director's cut is an incredible movie.

More broadly, the problem with the film is that it's a work of art and a lot of capeshit fans wanted the kind of empty nonsense that the MCU was dishing up around the same time. Films like Captain America Civil War and Avengers Endgame are completely disposable films that have no value outside their context of release. With Batman v Superman, they crafted something lasting and meaningful. That will endure long after Gunn's rebooted universe has collapsed.

Basically, you're dealing with people who thought the vapid garbage that was the MCU was a model for these films to imitate. Bullshit empty solo movies that are just ads for a shitty team-up film. Films that nobody gives a fuck about today, much less in 50 years.

>>212727870
>The guy sitting next to me even got a headache and wanted the movie to end sooner.

I've watched lots of films at the theater good and bad but it was the first time I've ever wanted the projector to just explode and be told that I can get a refund because I was just done watching the film when Batman and Superman became friends and I was like "cool, we can stop the movie now" then Doomsday shows up and we got what felt like another hour of giant cgi explosions. Nobody cheered when Wonder Woman showed up and nobody said anything that Superman was dead

>>212727977
>But the director's cut is an incredible movie.
It's still a disjointed and headache-inducing mess.

>>212727977
Hahaha — oh wait, you’re serious?

>>212727999
A lot of fantastic films are disjointed. Blade Runner is completely disjointed, especially without its narration. Still a compelling film.

What do you mean by "headache inducing"?

>>212728000
To be fair, there are still people who argued that BvS and ZSJL should have had retarded solo films preceding them because "muh comic books".

>>212715748 (OP)
i dont know what the fuck zack snyder was smoking when he made this movie

>>212728148
Snyder was smoking rolled up pages of The Dark Knight Returns.
David Goyer was smoking the US military industrial complex's penis.
Chris Terrio was trying to fuck over David Goyer and his pro-US politics as much as he could get away with by making a 3 hour movie about how America fucking sucks.

>>212728148
Batman Returns, Moby Dick, Excalibur

>>212727850
>This is people with MCU-brain, though.
It's not "MCU brain" though, it was literally true. The unfortunate reality is that art does not, and cannot, exist in a vacuum, and that peoples knowledge of the medium will affect their experience. A characters death will not hold emotional weight if people know that death won't hold have a serious impact going forward, and people already knew that Superman was gonna be in a Justice League movie in just a year. It's like when you're watching a TV show where an old character is gonna have a surprise appearence, but you don't get to have that surprise cause the opening credits just said "Special Guest Appearance by (old character's actor here)".

>>212727931
Batman vs superman had been done before and it can work. Most is the time, their clash is due to ideology very similar to cap vs iron man in civil war. There is none of that here. They just fight because Lex set them up with blackmail and stop fighting because they found out lex set them up. Also, Batman's reason for fighting superman is actually Lex's reason for fucking with Superman in other adaption. It is really out of place that Bruce would instantly try to kill Superman instead of trying to work with him first. It doesn't make any sense.

>>212715748 (OP)
If these shitty movies were even a fraction as entertaining as laughing at everything around them, they'd be smash hits.

>>212728069
>"headache inducing"
The shitty, grimdark, shakycam fight scenes with awful CG that take up a quarter of the film maybe?

>>212728407
>A characters death will not hold emotional weight if people know that death won't hold have a serious impact going forward, and people already knew that Superman was gonna be in a Justice League movie in just a year.
People cry when Jesus is crucified even though they know he rises three days later.
>It's like when you're watching a TV show where an old character is gonna have a surprise appearence, but you don't get to have that surprise cause the opening credits just said "Special Guest Appearance by (old character's actor here)".
This isn't a TV show. The MCU is shot and structured like a TV show where it's all about the artificially important season finale, and it's not a model anyone should imitate.

Superman's death is emotionally meaningful because we see a man (or a kind of god-man) give his life for a world that he loves. No context beyond that is needed.

It's like those nerd who try to argue Order 66 in Star Wars 3 needs the shitty clone wars TV show for context. No, you don't need to know who the fuck any of the people are to be moved by their deaths.

>>212716156
No one cared. Both because Snyder completely failed or get people to connect with Cavill and also because everyone knew a JL movie was coming and of course Superman would be back for that.

>>212728585
>it's not a model anyone should imitate
Yet DC did, and they thought Snyder of all people was going to be the guy to do it for some reason.

>>212728468
>It is really out of place that Bruce would instantly try to kill Superman instead of trying to work with him first. It doesn't make any sense.
How does it not make sense? Bruce's motivation is extremely straightforward. He fucking lost his mind because of space 9/11. I will remind you that Americans launched into decades of military action losing thousands of lives because they all went fucking bananas when the twin towers were hit.

Superman in BvS is a commentary on America's culture and anxieties after 9/11. He is going to kill Superman because if there is a 1% chance Superman goes bad, we have to kill them all now kill them all fuck, kill the alien rat bastards HASHTAGNEVERFORGET.

Superman is Ahab hunting Moby Dick. Did Abab stop and try to reason with the whale? No, he pursued its death with a single minded purpose.

Batman EXPLAINS this to the audience and Alfred tells him he's a retard and completely delusional. But naturally Batman won't listen.

>>212728661
WB tried, but Snyder largely ignored them. His DC films are nothing like the MCU, the non-Snyder films aren't canon to his films, and basically he made his trilogy and everything else is ruins and ashes. He got fired, but he won in the end.

>>212728585
>This isn't a TV show. The MCU is shot and structured like a TV show where it's all about the artificially important season finale, and it's not a model anyone should imitate.

BvS is literally just a setup for Justice League, complete with teasers showing off the heroes who are gonna show up in Justice League and Flash coming from the future to warn Batman about a big disaster coming soon. It's such a setup for the next movie that it's literally named "Dawn of Justice".

Then Snyder's Justice League ends with an entire flash-forward sequence continuing to tease the disaster Flash was warning about, further setting up the next big thing.

>>212728763
>BvS is literally just a setup for Justice League, complete with teasers showing off the heroes who are gonna show up in Justice League and Flash coming from the future to warn Batman about a big disaster coming soon. It's such a setup for the next movie that it's literally named "Dawn of Justice".
That's how sequels work. Back to the Future 2 is setup for Back to the Future 3. The difference here is that Snyder really didn't give a shit about the cinematic universe. Only his 5 movie plan. Back to Future 3 is emotionally moving not because it's some artificial season finale but because the plot is interesting.

>>212728668
But that is literally Lex in every other adaptation.
Batman wouldn't just go out there to kill someone who claims he is just trying to help people and fought to protect earth even if he can't prevent the collateral damage. Batman would know that superman was just trying to protect earth. He can easily find out the truth about the catastrophy and know that it wasn't superman fault. It wasn't exactly a secret because the military and US government sided with Superman by the end of man of steel. It's not a Batman character

>>212728694
>but Snyder largely ignored them
>the non-Snyder films aren't canon to his films
>basically he made his trilogy and everything else is ruins and ashes
Which is why he's a fucking retard, it's not hard to compete with Marvel in this particular instance given you're the OTHER big American comic company in the duopoly.
There isn't anything wrong with the idea of DC being more adult-oriented than Marvel (if anything DC demands it given they have characters and stories that are more mature and better-written anyway), but Snyder went about it in the most reckless and stupid way possible with his 00s faux-edgelord style.
>He got fired, but he won in the end.
...by ending up slaving away creating endless "content" at Netshits instead of being the Goy Feige of DC?

>>212728896
Your entire complaint seems to be "muh source material, Batman wouldn't do that". Well in this movie Batman went fucking insane. That's the point of the movie. He's off his fucking nut.
>Batman wouldn't just go out there to kill someone who claims he is just trying to help people and fought to protect earth even if he can't prevent the collateral damage.
You don't get it. Batman knows that. He knows Superman is just trying to help. He knows that Superman is a good guy. He is paraphrasing Dick Cheney, who said:
>“If there’s a1percent chance that Pakistani scientists are helping al‑Qaeda build or develop a nuclear weapon, we have to treat it as a certainty in terms of our response.”
Basically, we have to murder them all even if there's a 1% chance they could build a nuclear weapon. COULD becomes ARE. Superman COULD hurt us, therefore he IS going to hurt us.

>>212729009
>>212729009
So Batman is a basically an OC character made up by Snyder then. However, this is the FIRST time Batman show up in a Snyder movie. This Batman is an unrecognizable character compared to the typical Batman that people know so the Snyder Batman can't depend on Batman established by other Batman adaption. Snyder Batman doesn't have enough development in BvS to stand own his own so people care and invest in him and his conflict with superman
Oh and he gave all of that up because of "muh Martha". If he truly lost his mind, rationality and morality, he wouldn't have been easily swayed back. The conflict and the resolution was shit.

>>212729131
>So Batman is a basically an OC character made up by Snyder then.
His characterization of Batman boiled down to "dark fucked up version of Batman", which for audiences also added insult to injury given they expected Baleman and instead got a cursed emo Ben Affleck acting half his age while looking ten years older.

>>212729131
>So Batman is a basically an OC character made up by Snyder then.
He's very similar to the disillusioned Batman from Nolan's films, particularly TDKR. If he hadn't quit being Batman, this is what would have happened to him.
>Oh and he gave all of that up because of "muh Martha". If he truly lost his mind, rationality and morality, he wouldn't have been easily swayed back.
As the film shows, watching his father whisper "Martha" is the source of some of his madness. When he hears it again, he is enraged but then his world begins to fall apart. The delusions he has built for himself.
>Snyder Batman doesn't have enough development in BvS to stand own his own so people care and invest in him and his conflict with superman
You don't need any of that. Mordred is onscreen for like what like 10 minutes in Excalibur, and you understand his hatred for his father. You don't need build-up. You don't need any of that bullshit. You just tell the story you want to tell and ignore the nerds screeching about how their pet character would never do that.

You don't need to know who any of these people are. Justice League is the same. You get an intro showing who Cyborg is. You get a few scenes showing who Flash is. You get a brief intro for Aquaman (which contradicts the standalone Aquaman film because why not?) You are not expected to do anything other than watch Man of Steel, BvS, and Justice League. No other film matters. Just those three.

>>212729248
He's literally the opposite of Nolan's Batman in everyway. Nolan's Batman would never try to kill Superman if he knows he is not at fault.

>>212729248
Snyder's version of Wonder Woman is a bloodthirsty killer who smashes people's skulls into walls to reinforce Lex's point about the "relying on the kindess of monsters". Wonder Woman is a monster, a goddess. Humans and these gods can never be equals. We can only human that they will be benevolent towards us, and that they won't break our pelvis when they fuck us.

>>212729287
If Nolan's Batman went mad after seeing how all his efforts had left Gotham a worse place than before, he might.

>>212729597
No, the whole nolan trilogy is there to establish that he wouldn't.

>>212729647
He sidesteps the issue in the Nolan trilogy by fucking off to another country to creampie Catwoman.

>>212729658
No, that is the resolution by the end of TDKR. He was able give up the mantle to someone else and move on.

>>212729694
>He was able give up the mantle to someone else and move on.
That someone else gets his skull caved in the leadup to BvS incidentally.

>>212729740
>A truce, Bruce. As long as you have this card, a truce. But all you have to do is tear it in half and I'm happy to discuss with you in any way you like, why you sent the Boy Wonder to do a man's job?

>>212729740
No it wouldn't. Even if Batman loses Robin, he wouldn't stoop that low. This is established in the whole dark knight trilogy. If you unable to understand this, idk how to explain it to you. This is highlight when he lost Rachel in TDK. Harvey Dent became the twisted version of justice pursuer (which Snyder Batman is) while Nolan Batman hang on his value.

>>212729818
The point is to keep beating Batman down and disillusioning him then have him run through the ruins of the towers, all 9/11 like until he breaks.

The point of a film like this is to say, "You thought they would never break? Just watch us break him."

>>212729876
But the film never show it. The film just have some vague hint say oh yea, despite of all of the shit Bruce went through and he never faltered before, something breaks him anyway. This is how he is now, deal with it.

>>212729971
The plot of the film revolves around the fact that after space 9/11 Batman went bananas. They don't need more than that. If you make a film about Jesus you have satan show up in the desert to tempt him. You don't need Satan's backstory about how he was once an angel of light that fell, sorta like Batman if you think about it.

>>212730006
What with you and 9/11. Cam Snyder fan only glaze snydershot by making analogy to real world event or another literature? Having analogy/parallel to other literature/real world event doesn't make a movie good.
So the most important aspect that force Bruce to give up his value and leads to his conflict with Superman doesn't matter? It doesn't make snyder Batman to be underdeveloped?