Why is Alien 3 considering the "black sheep" of the Alien franchise. I think David Fincher accomplished a lot of great things in the film, especially the assembly cut. Would really love to see him involved again. He generates a dark and visceral tone that no other director of the franchise has been able to do.

>>213092653 (OP)
How good was the air vent scene

>>213092653 (OP)
Assembly Cut/Third Cut literally bumps Alien 3 up above Aliens.

>>213092728
>>213092653 (OP)
Fast forward cut/don't watch it cut makes it even better

>>213092653 (OP)
It’s not. That title goes to alien resurrection.

>>213092653 (OP)
The assembly cut (scenes cobbled together by finchercels online that they claim was his "vision" based on one interview) was not released in theatres so obviously it doesn't factor in general audience opinions of the film.

I think people were upset by the continuity break, it feels so different in theme and setting that it upsets peoples expectations, there was an audible clunk between 2 and 3, 1 smoothly transitioned into 2 and was a response to what a lot of people thoughht about the first film (just shoot it with a gun lol).
Also, Aliens was a direct escalation of Alien. Alien^3 was a step down to a smaller group, less technology, less violence, lower stakes.

>>213092653 (OP)
It's actually pretty damn good. I consider it on par with 2 (1 still is the best)

>there are anons on this board right now that don't have their goggles on them at all times
ngmi

>>213092807
Resurrection is the secret kino. 3 is underrated though, and aliens is easily the most overrated of all four of them.

>>213092807
1 and 2 are so different can you even compare them? Different genres.

>>213092653 (OP)
It's pretty solid if you watch the director's cut. My one complaint is they removed the chestburster ending, but in a way it's kinda more moving without it.

>>213092826
>fincher saw this guy for half a day and hired him for the next 30 years
Pretty based

>>213092861
Kinda wished they'd kept it, because she grabs the little fucker and makes sure it can;t get away while she's falling, which was pretty moving

>>213092653 (OP)
I really like this movie, its not perfect and its very bleak, but I like it.

>>213092653 (OP)
Because it idiotically uses multiple magically appearing eggs to justify its existence, makes the universe that much smaller having them be next to a planet to crash on and weyland able to get there in days, stupidly undoes the ending of the previous movie for no reason except spite and no creativity, and runs the franchise into a brick wall it has never recovered from

>>213093203
surely the ship on LV426 is still sitting there? It wasn't wiped out in the explosion.

>>213092653 (OP)

The standard /tv/ apologist line here is to appeal to the Assembly Cut. But while the original theatrical descends into the simply incoherent when their explosive goo booby trap blows up in their faces (the editing is painfully botched most noticably in this area), the Assembly Cut ultimately fails to rescue what is an inherently bad movie. The reasons why have nothing to do with the killing off of everyone from the last movie (there's a respectable logic to this), but are more closely related to landing in the least sympathetic environment possible, with more people than ever before to not care about. Also, we're primed to have a certain amount of tech available, and if you want to change it up and strip that down to a leadworks with next to no light equipment, then you had better damn well have some interesting characters to carry the thing. It does not, and that's the central problem.

The basic costume design to have everybody bald is an incredibly poor visual/costume choice because it makes everyone fungible, indistinguishable. You insert the largest cast to date, make them all look as similar to each other as possible, and give us every reason not to care about any of them, except for one or two of them. In fact, the Assembly Cut makes at least one detail WORSE: it enhances Dillon's cynicism, and makes him, a murderer and a rapist of women, even less likable than he already was. Because it makes it clearer that he's just a cynical fuck who wants to hang on his little monastery for as long as possible, fuck everybody else. Not a totally unreasonable attitude in itself, but it doesn't quite square with christianity, or even traditional monasticism. It's a bastardized and silly thing, precisely because of how the story changed during development, from the monk thing over to the prison.

>hurr durr you want the characters to be "likable" that's not le point
Yes. If I care about them then their deaths are more delicious. Otherwise it's meaningless.

Also, IIRC (it's been a while) the Assembly Cut takes at least one more step backwards: it actually suppresses the climactic, christlike shots of Ripley falling into the lava while holding the chestburster, making sure it goes down with her. IIRC it just sort of fades out as Ripley falls down. If you want to have a christlike thing, showing the full gore in full detail not only works, but it's the whole point. Mel Gibson understood this. It (the crucifixion) was a bloody awful mess. The viewer should be made to see: "I did this for you." While I'm invoking art history, the chestburster itself originally derived from Francis Bacon's "Study for Three Figures at the Base of a Crucifixion", an abstract painting that featured weird bird-sized figures in contorted positions. The essential feature was the teeth, the mouth. Bacon was obsessed with that per the famous Battleship Potemkin still.

>>213092861

Disagree, per the above reasoning.

>>213092653 (OP)
the studio made fincher disown making it. he was not happy and it shows. assembly cut fixes some but I've only seen it twice in my 33 years and the other almost yearly except the 4th

>>213093263
-The opening sequence is an unforgiveable "Fuck" you to the audience.
-There are too many characters who are just there to be cannon fodder.
-Since the movie spends so much time killing these characters, it never feels like it's moving forward or telling a real story.
-It's a serious downgrade in visual effects. Puppets, matte paintings, etc. are nowhere near as good as they were in Alien or Aliens.
-It kills off the only likable character, Clemens, halfway through.
-It's overly stylized and overly-dramatic in terms of both visuals and music, and feels very different from Alien and Aliens.
-The setting is more memorable than any of the characters or dialogue, meaning the script wasn't developed enough.

>>213093561
Ripley isnt a Christlike figure. She's just a random insignificant space trucker who got lucky a couple times and now her lucks run out.

And the Chestburster bursting out while she's falling is contrived as fuck. Why didnt it do that a few seconds earlier?

>>213092653 (OP)
>Why is Alien 3 considering the "black sheep" of the Alien franchise.
Any slight change to the formula, no matter what, makes fans seethe.
You see it all the time in both films and in video games.
It's stupid.

>>213094023
Alien 3 is just a rehash of Alien 1.

>>213092653 (OP)
As someone who saw the movie in the cinema in '92, my impression was that it was too dark, too depressing, and too pointless after Alien/Aliens. I dig it though. The movie is gorgeous, has a fantastic cast, and tthere are plenty of tense creepy moments.

>>213093263
Yeah, not really a fan of the Assembly Cut, theatrical is better imo

I don't care about the characters from 2 but I couldn't watch this shit. Veering from the prisoners trying to rape ripley, to the next scene one of them plodding around in an obviously deadly enclosed space with the xeno introduced - i'm supposed to feel tension? muh poor rapie is gonna be bit?

>>213092842
>Resurrection is the secret kino
Resurrection is like fanfiction, just good fanfiction

>>213092653 (OP)
Cameron's slop made people forget Alien was a horror movie.

>>213092653 (OP)
>Why is Alien 3 considering the "black sheep"
Because a whole bunch of pedos got assmad that Newt got killed off offscreen, if you want the real reason

>>213092653 (OP)
>Would really love to see him involved again.
Not fucking likely. He has violently disowned the movie, and walked off production because he was fed up with the producers.
Get the blu ray box set that came out a few years ago, all the movies have amazing transfers, alternate cuts, and a whole disk of featurettes. The development hell of the third alien movie is far more interesting than the movie itself (and I rate Alien 3 very highly).
Really though, people disliked alien 3 mostly because it wasn't Aliens 2.
I genuinely like all 4 of the original alien movies.
I unironically rate 3 pretty highly, and that might be because it was the first one I saw as a kid, and then I made my parents rent the first two.
Alien Resurrection is admirable, on a technical and production level its an absolutely phenomenal movie and I like the cast a lot, most of its problem is the Joss Whedon script, which he has officially apologized for.

I love Alien, too bad it never got any sequels.

>>213094375
>muh newt and hicks!
I don't understand why people wanted the franchise to have an ever expanding cast of tag along characters with plot armor.

Is the assembly cut being better one of the biggest memes of all time?

The movie was basically written as they went. They had a different director who had an outlandish but original idea about a floating monastery in space where ripley and the alien crash land. It would ultimately be a Eve parable with Ripley being accused of opening pandoras box by letting this demon into a society of monks. The director left when he was told to change the whole script (they had already started pre-production) and Fincher was added after they rewrote it to be a prison planet with traces of the original themes. The final product is compromised by studio meddling and even the assembly cut doesnt fully save it. You are right though that visually it is very interesting and I like it because it tries to get away from the disposable space bugs of the previous entry. The characters arent very well developed though and and plot points fizzle out and we are left with dull corridor action that pales in comparison to the first film.

>>213094422
>I don't understand why
Because there are people who love a film or a franchise for the art, the filmmaking, the premise, the setting, the style, the characters, the story.

And then theres people who enjoy movies based on actresses they find fuckable.

>>213094436

It is a better cut overall (no one seriously disputes this), but that isn't saying much given how bad the original theatrical cut was. The whole reason why it's called the "assembly" cut in the first place, not the "director's" cut was because Fincher refused to have any further involvement with the film and stipulated to the personnel who did in fact put the cut together: "Do whatever you want, but don't you call it a 'Director's Cut', because it isn't one." The real argument is whether the basic film/story is good. The apologists are wrong, that's all.

>>213094436
No. It doesn't drastically change the movie, but it does move some things around, and put in some cut scenes that give the other cast a bit more characterization, and puts some stuff in context.
The movie was shot with an unfinished script that was being rewritten as they filmed it. They'd finish building a set only to have that whole part of the script ripped out the next day.
Then fincher left and a studio just got some guy to slap it together and release it.
But if you're going to re-watch alien 3, better to watch the work print/assembly cut or whatever its called.

>>213094518
No it isnt. That tunnel scene goes on FOREVER in the extended cut but adds nothing. The removal of the chest buster is a huge downgrade from the original ending. And the beginning is worse than the original cut, which had a very cool intro cutting back and forth.

>>213092653 (OP)
The 1st teaser for it was this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bk_x9W1xKng

>>213092653 (OP)
Because it spent years in production and promised a lot, there was even promotional stuff released, "on earth no one can hear you scream". Big budget blockbuster follow on to aliens, yet they pissed all the money away on failed scripts and royalties and we ended up with fucking HMS pinafore performed by UK amateur dramatics. Add to it that dumb cunt weaver waxing lyrical about how she's so happy because she hates guns and the film is amazing, it's a story of complete and utter failure. The film is the left overs of a complete fuck up from start to pathetic finish. Everyone involved should have been shot.

>>213094570
>there was even promotional stuff released, "on earth no one can hear you scream"
At one point it was going to be Alien: Earth War, which Dark Horse novelized and adapted into comic form.
Personally I wanted the wooden satellite inhabited by space-monks who avoid technology where they can.

>>213092653 (OP)
because the plot was extremely boring

>>213094559
Don't forget the dog

>>213092653 (OP)
cameron ruined the franchise by making a successful action movie and fincher wanted to course correct but was at odds with the studio execs who specifically hired him as a music video director on the assumption he'd be easier to control. it's a miracle we got as good a movie as we did.

>>213092653 (OP)
>entire cast dies off screen
1/10 sequel

>>213096978

IIRC the guy states that there's 25 inmates or so (thus a cast of 28-29) but there aren't even that many credits in the end, which is extremely annoying. There's like 3-5 completely unseen/unaccounted for personnel in the story. We at least have brief shots of Wierzbowski and Crowe to establish their existence. At least pare your stupid prison movie down to a principal cast of 20 or so, but noooo...