Why does Hollywood hate formations?

>>213107894 (OP)
Jews do not understand physical warfare. They are not good at it and generally are not good at anything physical, so when they have to write it or depict it it looks retarded.

>source: every single Hollywood fight scene and big battle you've ever seen

>>213107894 (OP)
1v1s fall under the rule of cool

>>213107894 (OP)
How the fuck do you know what ancient battles were like? Were you there idiot?

I don't know about ancient greece but 1v1s were a thing in medieval warfare, it was pretty much customary that before a pitched battle groups of warriors (sometimes naked) would go into enemy camp to laugh at their opponents and challenge them, winning those fights was a great honor
Greek writers often give accounts of battles where such and such killed X in this way and they had a grudge since a few years back, but then again they can be all full of shit

I wouldn’t mind a war movie with a top down perspective to the battle, modern or ancient. Who fucking cares about seeing close ups of their screaming faces, I’m sure they’re very scared and excited.

>>213107894 (OP)
same reason why the hero of all hollywood movies is alone, everytime.
what do you want? communism to win?

>>213108068
Why didn’t the enemy camp just kill them?

>>213108110
You'd be forever known as that one autist retard who killed a naked boy because muh no fun allowed

>>213108110
Back in the day, people killed and went to war for fun and fulfillment, it wasn't that serious.

>>213108038
people literally write shit down retard

>>213108038
no one knows what ancient battles were like because none of the ancient sources actually described what the battles were like
it's one of the great unsolved mysteries of history

PULLO! Back in formation!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B40fgE2ZpNo

>>213108038
We know how a phalanx was used, obviously

>>213108163
Kinda true, look at the battle of grunwald, knights fighting on the side of teutonic order started to just drop weapons when they saw that the battle isn't going their way because they were used to being able to surrender and then get bought back by their families
Little did they know that turks and lithuanians had no idea that warfare worked like that in civilized parts of europe and slew them all, that was a big point of contention for the next hundreds of years against polish-lithuanian commonwealth because those retards killed lots of heirs to prestigous families, some royal

>>213108283
This is a reminder that phalanxes spin

>>213107894 (OP)
>>213108076
Controversial take but I think it's because it's written by women these days. It's more about the social and emotional aspect than the technical or logistical aspect. In my experience, women seem to care more about social things, so it would follow that TV shows written by women show the narrative through female eyes. This isn't good or bad, but I agree that I'd rather see a more technical and logistical focused depiction. I'd rather watch How It's Made than hear social-focused dialogue or a scene that is crafted to show all characters fighting on equal terms with redshirt enemies. It almost seems like it's done to push social collectivism even though real battles are more logistically collectivist. Maybe it really does come down to social/emotional vs technical/logistical...

>>213108266
>literally running into spears

>>213108386
People who know shit about historical warfare don't get to write movies, those who do get to do that just don't give a fuck a treat the setting as a window dressing

>>213107894 (OP)
the top is literally just 300, which is pure hollywood slop

>>213107894 (OP)
if I want to see realistic armies fighting, I'll watch a documentary. The whole point of movies is for entertainment, so I get to fuck my date's bussy afterwards

>>213108497
But 300 shows spartans fighting in phalanx 90% of time, the only "duels" shown are when persian formations break and spartans kill off straggler

>>213107894 (OP)
It's about drama, anon.
Jön Snöw dancing around the battlefield and cutting down 100 people by himself is more interesting (to normies) than Jön Snöw sitting in the commander chair and yelling instructions.


Though something I have wondered is, the cost factor. Which is one cheaper to film, 10 people in shieldwall getting poked with another 10 guys, or scattered group of people fighting melee?

>>213108432
Okay but seriously, how the fuck do you break phalanx? Is flanking the only hope?

>>213108107
Also can't use a helmet, shield or spear, must wield a sword if ancient/medieval and a pistol if modern/sci-fi.

>>213108497
More like this.

>>213108076
Have you ever tried playing RTS games?

>>213107894 (OP)
The image shows it clearly, you can't get good angles with tight formations

phalanx is overrated. alexander had only a handful of battles during his conquest because most of the time he was greeted as a liberator, and even when he had battles they were won because his opponents were retarded and broke the moment they faced resistance

>>213108584
Drop ordnance or shoot at them. Or just drive a tank at them.
But actually, you should flank with cavalry.

>>213108347
I think they also did a momentum sprint attack

>>213108068
in the battles between the roman empire, byzantines and muslims they had a lot of pre-battle duels too, its a good way to demoralise the enemy army and hype up your own guys

>>213108682
>The image shows it clearly, you can't get good angles with tight formations
thanks for the insight anon

>>213108710
His formula was hammer+anvil, the cav would smash his opponents into either a rout or into the long pikes of his men

>>213108710
He conquered persian empire you retard, he had a lot of luck during his battles but don't fucking downplay Alexandrr the GOAT of all people

>>213107894 (OP)
Because Hollywood is making movies for mainstream audiences not documentaries.

>>213107916
Nailed it

>>213108192
and they make shit up or do you think people really had armies in the hundreds of thousands when they couldnt even feed that many?

>>213108804
If Hollywood knows what "mainstream audiences" want or like how come they can't sell them movir tickets to save their lives?

>>213108888
Plenty of stuff that herodotus wrote about and got ridiculed for for more than two thousand years, was proven to be true, sometimes only recently
I'm willing to put some faith in these guys

>>213108896
Because 40 years ago one of the main things people did for fun was movies, nowdays they have 50 different ways to spend their time/money. My buddy doesn't rven go to the movies that often but watchesba lot of movies with his gf because he bought a projector and surround sound. Its like a personal theater, and it wasn't even that expensive. The whole set up was like 2.5k

>>213108584
Somehow, Alexander managed to break the Theban Sacred Band (which had left flank covered by allies, and right flank blocked by river). I'm not sure if it's definitive whether he broke them with cavalry or pikes, but he somehow personally btfo the 300 top athletes and warriors of Thebes

Homer is Hollywood now? The battles in the Iliad were mostly described as being 1v1

>>213108107
this anon knows.

>>213107920
Everyone forgot those things and now if movies aren't perfectly logical or everything isn't explained, it's terrible and everyone hates it

>>213107894 (OP)

Depicting men rushing at the enemy and mowing them down one after another like they're chopping wood looks more cinematic than a shield wall heaving to and fro for a couple of hours.

>>213109022
the Iliad is the equivalent of capeshit

would AI make it easier to create real ancient battles?

Dude, fucking Trafalgar. Pretty sick right?

>>213107916
>walks around your city seven times then blows three horns at it

>>213107916
This. Also forgot to mention that Jews made me shit my bed last night.

>>213109456
Sure, we can use machine learning to develop procedural animation systems that allow for large formations to act moderately naturally when engaging with an opposing force.

>>213107894 (OP)
Ancient battles were very chaotic and were nowhere clean as your photo is making it out to be. Once the battle starts the soliders went animalistic as adrenaline took over. The battles were loud which made it hard for soldiers to hear horns, visibility wasn't good due to kicked up dirt, bodies and debris so getting commands through after the battle had started was extremely difficult. I'd say Hollywood is more accurate than your picture.

>>213107894 (OP)
Thats the front line idiot

>>213107894 (OP)
Reminds me of that game where you reenact old battles, but you can go full meme and have like 10,000 Samurai fight 30,000 Vikings to see what would happen.

>>213109061
cant have it both ways. if youre going to do le epic historical drama you need to make it real or total fantasy. the cartoon realism theyve been repeating for 20 years is retarded

>>213109629
>>213109817
Your frontline isn't going to have everyone jumbled up like that several ranks deep. Once that happens, orders are impossible and armies withdraw to regain cohesion. It's really hard to stand and fight if you don't have your comrades by your side & backing you up.

Formations weren't always used because armies weren't always that disciplined. Dueling also was how a lot of conflicts were solved back then

>>213109110
>even in ancient times people knew real life was boring so you had to spice things up
Huh...

Who was in the wrong here?

probably due to practical reasons (e.g. we can't costume 200 people for a single shot) and for adapting things to the screen (e.g. to show the MC)

>>213107916
israel is completely unchallenged in the middle east

>>213108888
Yeah historians decided to just make shit up
You're retarded

>>213110144
We really need to bring back Soviet conscription in order to provide 50k extras for battle scenes

>>213107920
Even in the Iliad the battles are just 1v1s

>>213107894 (OP)
extras aren't trained warriors

>>213108068
>be ancient warrior
>head to enemy camp night before battle
>start basically shitposting at them and calling them fags and whatnot
>challenge a few of them to a duel
>kill then because me > u all lmao
>they stare at me like the total homos they are as I leave towards my camp
wtf

>>213110194
They have 1v1, and then both sides tussle to gain possession of the corpse and drag it behind their line

>>213110144
>israel is completely unchallenged in the middle east
Obviously. Helps when you have the entirety of the US of Golem at your beck and call like the good dogs they are.

>>213108038
Yes. I am eternal. Submit and bear my children.

>>213108584
Fire
Oil
Mud
Uneven terrain
Spike pits
Trenches
Drop heavy rocks on them
Catapults
Trebuchets
Fire for sure
Drown them

>>213110144
Anon the US gives them billions to buy the fanciest new hardware and constantly bomb their opposition and overthrow their governments

>pre-modern wars were fought one on one
u wut m8

>>213109506
I hope they at least offered to help clean it up (for a modest fee)

>how Australian Special Forces would hold Helms Deep
makes you think

>>213108248
Rome did it well

>>213109061
The CinemaSins flavor of criticism killed film discussion for about a decade since its inception

>>213109946
or just assassinating the generalas

>>213110172
Herodotus did decide to just make shit up.

>>213108311
Similar thing happened when the conquestadors fought the Aztecs.
>Aztecs wanted captives to sacrifice.
>Would grab a Spanish guy in the fighting but keep him alive.
>As the Spanish line moved up, they freed their "casualties" who returned to the fighting.

>>213110746
>made shit up
His Histories are remarkably accurate, and that's dealing with fifth-hand information!

>>213110808
>enslaved by dwarves

>>213108998
He realized the Sacred Band were a bunch of faggots and showed them pictures of naked women.

>>213107894 (OP)
Why does Hollywood hate pike walls? They always find some reason for the horses to charge right through them without harm. Every movie except Braveheart.

>>213108283
I love all the later records of them making the Sarissa longer and longer till they find the best meta

Last Kingdom usually had good battles.

>>213107916
>everyone in hollywood directing fight scenes is jewish
the levels of schizophrenia you guys are on is insane

>>213110958
Was annoying that British side had to be shown what a shield wall is and how to do it, since the books shows they already know the obvious formation, but I suppose it worked to explain it to the audience

>>213108038
ridley please.

>>213107894 (OP)
Other than 300 what other movies do the bottom

Nig

>>213110041
Hollywood, for not making the movie

>>213111076
>Stupid fucking midgets, LET'S SHOW THEM HOW IT'S DONE, ElfBros! Fuck shields and spears, one on one with short swords and spinning is the way!

Formations are gay especially squares

>>213107916
Nah this anon is right Jews only came into their own in Israel usually they had to use statecraft and skullduggery to make it in the hostile middle east. If you guys think they were hated recently nope in fact if you read The M'oron it was basically all about one man killing Jews. Christians also oppressed Jews and told them they can't lend money and then they gave up and said okay only Jews can lend money that's a shitty business anyway, then Jews nearly took over the world lmao so they were killed and had money taken and then banking was for everyone only regulated.

Jews are really smart and are pretty good at warfare with modern weapons that benefit intelligence. The problem with Jews is they just don't have enough people. Only 10 million live in Israel, Iran has 90. If Israel had 90 million they could be more fearsome than even Genghis Khan.

>>213109456
I am curious if any AI exists already wargaming and simulating Chinese vs American battles. hmm it would be fun to use.

>>213111083
99% of films

>>213111226
>>213111076
the hobbit movies (which were never made) are beyond stupid but its actual lore that silvan elves are the retarded niggers of elfdom and this is basically exactly how thranduils dad died along with his entire elven force during the battle of the last alliance

they were lightly armored infantry and just decided to charge head long into the battle without any support from the other forced and were all wiped out. thats what the marshes of the dead are that sam and frodo find

>>213107894 (OP)
just play total war. 1212 is kino.

>>213109110
>He doesn't regularly pick up a large rock in one hand which would take an equivalent of four men as they are now and throw it through his enemies, brasting their brains and making them fall down dead, armor rattling round them.
baka

>>213111083
Troy. Gladiator.

>>213109110
getting filtered by a 3000 year old kino. how embarrassing

>>213108584
The Romans did it easily.

>>213108584
Pilum, uneven terrain, cavalry flanks, scorpios. i do it all the time in Total war

>>213110746
>Herodotus did decide to just make shit u -ACK

>>213107894 (OP)
ackshewally no one knows what ancient battles looked like, we only have fragments of accounts and tactics

>>213111516
my total war battles count as primary sources

>>213107894 (OP)
so what? the ones at the back waited for their turn to be masacred?

>>213111076
whats the tactical advtange of jumping out of your phalanx?

>>213111314
>marshes of the dead
so like are their souls trapped there as zombies forever? don't elves go somewhere when they die?

>>213111569
no they would (ideally) rotate with the front to keep them fresh. and usually the deeper your rank the more pressure you can withstand in a defensive posture, and the more pressure you can apply when marching forward. if your formation is only 1 rank deep its very easy for the enemy to break through and then your fight devolves into the bottom. soldiers in formations, such as roman legionnaires or greek hoplites are not designed to 1v1. they are not samurai or knights, but greater then the sum of their parts.

>>213111622
i dont remember why they are still there or even if they are there during the book or if its a movie thing honestly. its just the field of the massacre. but yes elf souls are supposed to go to the halls of mandos but i think sometimes they linger for certain reasons

>>213108192
I guess every holy book is true.

>>213111850
yes bitch.

>>213108584
According to total war you use horse archers and focus all your arrows in one phalanx unit till they are all dead and then repeat the process. Very high kill to death ratio

>>213107894 (OP)
you don't know real ancient battles were like that

>>213107894 (OP)
stop this shit, man. use the PENCIL tool. when you use the brushes it dithers the edges or whatever the fucking techincal term is so when you use the bucket tool, the edges of the line are still visible because its not a perfect match AHHHH FUCK

>>213111945
idk if people who play total war rome 1 or 2 actually know how to fight using the marian cohort system though becuase if you do it actually always wins against a greek phalanx in isolation.

>>213107894 (OP)
Because 20,000 extras and 20,000 costumes for them and the space to show them is prohibitively expensive.

>>213111076
Is this the dumbest moment taking place during a battle ever put to film?

>>213111986
or learn how to use photoshop like an adult, and not a 7 year-old child?

>>213111986
op stole it from twitter

>>213111076
Why didn't he just have the elf archers shoot over the dwarves that would have made more sense on every level

>>213111279
Cyrus gave them a big break and if he didn’t, Judiasm would be extinct

>>213112029
Just tile and add the extras digitally. Who but a few anal autists on webboards are going to scrutinize the costume of extra #19203 etc.?

>>213108584
Just pull back with your center, it works literally every time

>>213108584
Strafe it and throw the black firebombs at it until you can see the cord and just attack if

>>213112090
>use photoshop
no

>>213108584
artillery

picrel is how you beat a Phalanx whether it is advancing towards you or holding in place. In reality a Cohort is 6 centuries(a century is 100 men). the first Cohort on the top left is actually suppose to be 3 centuries (5 double strength in history). I do this in overhauled Rome 2, with 40 unit armies by editing the max in the save file. so in total the army usually has 1 command cavalry unit, 18 regular centuries(9 cohorts) and 3 eagle centuries (1 eagle cohort) then tons of foreign auxillary spears, archers, skirmishers and cavalry. later on i also include field artillery as that was commonly used by the time marian cohort reforms took place. important that picrel is just in isolation, no cavalry or missile infantry on either side assisting. the roman cohorts stagger which allows the centuries in the gaps to throw pilum into the flanks of the phalanx.

>>213112004
Yes but the front lines get massacred. Using horse archers that never make contact with the spears is more effective. Carrhae style fighting tried and tested

>>213112313
and yes you can absolutely be in different formations than this very basic double line formation. you can send your rear cohorts to the flanks instead of cycling them with the front

>>213110291
You're telling me when you get drafted into WW3 and a naked oiled up chinaman breaks into your bunker and wants to box you'd turn him down?

>>213112512
>a naked oiled up chinaman breaks into your bunker and wants to box
>you'd turn him down?
uh, yeah. why wouldn't I?

>>213108266
What was her name again?

>>213112512
I would just shoot him down, or rather someone would as he approaches the bunker.
Why would I or my buddies entertain such faggotry.

>>213108068
People say that this happened during the Russo-Japanese war and it's bullshit, which makes me think the Medieval stories are probably bullshit too

>>213111620
You get a quick oneway ticket out of such a gay world

>>213107894 (OP)
There were usually 1v1s to avoid larger battles

>>213110144
>israel is completely unchallenged in the middle east
Why did they beg iran to stop attacking?

>>213112675
Ai Uehara
Also, watch the first scene of PLA-045.

>>213112991
That happened like once.

>>213110641
We were all robbed when they cancelled this show. Fucking robbed. Never again boys.

>>213110641
>that shield wall rotation
damn thats sexy. Is there a lot of war in the Rome show though? I thought it was about guys in robes and prostitutes with nice titties

>>213108311
Thanks for the history lesson, anon. Genuinely interested in this topic.

>>213108248
Hold the line!

> What line?

Damn it, Flavius!

>>213113406
It's hard to believe but real life romans were even more kino
Just read life of pyrrhus by plutarch or find something about Quintus Fabius Maximus Verrucosus

>>213113203
>Is there a lot of war in the Rome show though?
No. The first episode bullshits you hard by making you think it might be. It indeed immediately becomes about mostly gay shit like people betraying each other and women being hysterical. Reading about Caesar's life, it's a hundred times better than what we got out of Rome. Shameful really.

>>213111697
^
And pre-Marian reforms, the Romans had 3 ranks of men that varied based upon their experience and equipment. Noobies to bloody the enemy, veterans to rotate in, and old guard Triarii if necessary to finish the job
>>213113203
Unfortunately no

>>213108584
Its actually not flanking. Any ancient army can be beaten by flanking, that's not a special weakness of the phalanx. If you pull off some crazy flank it only works against a phalanx as much as it would most other formations.

A phalanx wasn't some impervious thing. It can get worn down and punched through like anything else. Competent heavy infantry can advance through the spears and reach it. The short answer is what works against the phalanx is what generally worked against heavy infantry of the era.

If there's a particular hack to dealing with the phalanx, its what the Romans did. The Phalanx was primarily a fixing formation. You hold the enemy in place while the cavalry tries to decide the outcome of the battle. It is the phalanx's job to occupy and fix while something else delivers the killing blow.

With the Romans however, the purpose of their infantry is to kill. It is not just a fixing formation, it is meant to kill while engaged. This is why wins against roman armies tend to be less lopsided than other wins in the western world. Because roman armies tend to hurt you even if you win, cause they're trying to kill the whole time.

Recommend the Bret deveraux posts about this: https://acoup.blog/2024/01/19/collections-phalanxs-twilight-legions-triumph-part-ia-heirs-of-alexander/

>>213113836
It's also hard to maintain formation on uneven ground.

>>213108998
Because he had a better phalanx to start with

>>213112004
That's a real pain in the ass to "micro" though (or the pre-Marian manipular is even more of a pain, even though it "canonically" raped phalanx(ges?))

>>213108068
japan had shit like this, honor duels, and then they got raped when they encountered the foreigners who didnt do that

>>213110641
>enemy is just a bunch of dirty homeless people wearing leather rags
absolute slop

>>213108196
>none of the ancient sources actually described what the battles were like
It's actually kind of crazy when you think about it. We have absolutely no idea how pre-gunpowder armies fought on the field. We're beginning to get a better picture from the experimental archeology that's been done for the past 10-15 years, and the results are tilting towards projectile weapons playing a significantly bigger role than previously thought.

I have a theory that (extremely broadly speaking) heavy infantry generally occupied positions and held ground, while lighter units moved all around the battlefield engaging each other and taking shots of opportunity against the heavy infantry. Then cavalry presents the hardest counter to skirmishers, who occasionally retreat into the protection of the heavy infantry whenever the enemy cavalry threatens them. I think heavy infantry meeting heavy infantry was actually fairly uncommon unless one side possessed a significant advantage over the other, such as having substantially better armor. Because you read about ancient battles and they frequently are described as taking many hours or even days, so the casualties were probably fairly light until a unit routed or a breakthrough was created by cavalry.

One of the greatest warfare mysteries is how the FUCK did the Roman legion overcome the Greek phalanx, when the legions were ludicrously out-ranged by the Greeks' pikes. A lot of people have guessed that somehow the legions were able to get past the pike wall, but I think that's ridiculous. I think the Romans ended up running circles around the phalanxes with significant skirmisher action, and the legionnaires stayed out of pike range but pummeled the hoplites with javelins and plumbata. Once a phalanx began to break from casualties, and the pike wall became unsteady, only then did they advance into the melee and try to quickly force a rout.

the only two themes hollywood is competent at is drugs and movie production. Every other theme they touch is poorly researched or straight up a lie.

>>213114271
People don't realize how much we've lost. There's only like one surviving Roman shield for example.

>>213107894 (OP)
>implying niggers can fall in line

>>213114169
>japan before XX century
>honor anything
someone lied to you, bushido didn't exist even as a concept when samurai were still around

>>213114271
I thought we had a pretty good accounts of plataea battle possibly aslo marathon? and by eye witnesses, no less. Or do they ommit the important stuff?

Also how relatively bloodless the initial clash was compared to the moment someone in line pussies out and breaks, which could lead to your line being penetrated and from there its a slaughter. And these are guys being killed by bladed weapons in a relatively small area, the ground could potentially be soaked in hundreds of liters of blood.

>>213112189
don't you have an elephant to butt fuck, hannibal?

>>213114578
mayhaps mayhaps

>>213113836
So the counter to phalanxes is to just be willing to lose lots and lots of your own heavy infantry while punching through the formation. Until you killed all the greeks who knew how to fight anyway, after which they lost their institutional memory and became complete walkovers.

>>213114271
you can just push pikes out of the way and turn the formation into a mess. a ton of your guys are gonna die in the process but that's life. most peoples were probably too pussy to do that shit, but the romans in that period were seemingly content with that outcome.

>>213113077
Actually I think that's Aoi Shirakura

>>213113836
To be fair the Romans had a much more practical killing weapon and shield system. I can see how disorganized Hoplites would get butchered.

On Killing has a part near the beginning talking about how combat in the animal kingdom is mostly bluffing and that humans are no different. I can see how the longer spear would be a better "Ehh fuck off fuck offf" kinda weapon, whereas the gladius is clearly a murder weapon.

>>213107916
>Jews do not understand physical warfare. They are not good at it
Rofl

>>213114406
Goddamn i saw better shield charges at slav buhurts

>>213108311
That's not what happened, the knights lost because of a false retreat by the Lithuanians who pulled them out of position and later came to rear them. Germans were wary of this tactic later that's what they wrote of. They also blamed a knight of polish descent for betraying them and had him executed; its hard for germans to admit they lost there are always excuses with them.German hubris got btfo the only dishonorable thing that happened was the swords that were sent as an insult by the Germans before the battle

>>213114948
Early romans were pretty much chink tier when it comes to valuing single human life, but unlike chinks they were unbelievably disciplined and just... driven.
Reading Greeks' accounts of them always makes people go "who the fuck are these guys", but maybe it was just greeks hyling them up so they didn't feel bad for being subjugated by them

>>213107916

>>213107916
Forgot to mention that the jews also made me trans

>>213107916
>bluuuhhhh it must be da jooz
Great analysis.

>>213108311
Imagine how retarded the commonwealth would have been to let those knights surrender only to return to attack them again because Germans think it's honorable to surrender, buy your freedom and then attack again with it. There's a saying in poland that they hate jews not because they're Jewish but because they're German, case in point.

>>213115312
>crucifix
Jesus was a Jew. Also the Christian Bible is just the Jewish Bible with a couple hundred extra pages at the end.

>>213114635
>Or do they ommit the important stuff?
Yes, such as anything regarding the actual tactics. At best, we get passages about how one unit moved over here or there to do X thing.
>>213114948
>you can just push pikes out of the way and turn the formation into a mess
If it were that easy then they wouldn't have been used, anon. Phalanxes were 6-7 pikes deep, so you have 6-7 entire lines of pikes thrusting at you at any given moment. You're not just "pushing them out of the way". Also since you posted that famous Renaissance engraving: no, dopplesoldners did not break pike lines with their zweihänders, that idea was complete conjecture based on no evidence. They defended VIPs and flags.

>a ton of your guys are gonna die in the process but that's life
People, especially not professional soldiers, don't willingly throw their lives away for nothing. That's also a silly use of resources and a sure way to deplete your numbers for no gain.

>>213108076
Kazakh movie Tomyris has some scene with a top down view of the battle against Cyrus.
https://youtu.be/I5VtwjJUrvo?si=B3-6CzraSA9Ne9kU

>>213115399
t.

>>213111076
this is why I still come to this site

>According to Polybius1, during the period of the Republic, Roman legionaries in formation had about 180 cm of space (both depth and width), which was 3.24 square meters. A more reliable source of information – Vegetius2 – is to indicate a width of 90 cm and a depth of 200 cm, i.e. 1.8 square meters.

>Polybius gives his data in the section on the comparison of the combat value of the legion to the phalanx. He compares here the exceptionally large space of the legionaries against the tight array of phalanxes (each was 90 cm wide and deep).

>According to Polybius, the Roman legionary was supposed to have enough space to be free to use the sword to strike and throw a javelin, as well as to maintain a sense of security that his companions were nearby.

>As Adrian Goldsworthy points out, Roman soldiers, if we believe ancient records, had much more space in the formation for, for example, British troops during the Napoleonic Wars – soldiers at the beginning of the 19th century could only count at about 50-80 cm deep.

>The Republican standard maniple, consisting of 120 soldiers, was usually 6 to 8 ranks wide. With 6 rows of depth, the maniple consisted of 20 people in the line, which for the given width of 90 cm for a legionary gave a total of 18 meters of the maniple’s combat line. The depth at 200 cm per soldier is 12 meters deep for the 6th private unit. According to Adrian Goldsworthy, a typical legion would then have the front line, including the intervals between manipulations, 365 meters. In turn, a consular army consisting of two Roman legions and two alae allies would have a front of almost 1.5 km.

>>213115416
>If it were that easy then they wouldn't have been used, anon.
they use them because nobody wants to get close to them because when you get close to them lots of your dudes will die. so no formations will march into pikes, they will retreat instead. same shit the swiss did; they cultivated a reputation for never slowing their advance, so when swiss pike formations met other pike formations, the other formation would just run away. and then sometimes they didn't run away and then it became a scene like >>213114948 this one where everyone in both formations are killed or rendered unable to fight.
works great, until you meet that other enemy formation who is also willing to die, and then you both just die.

like, the romans bear pyrrhus by losing to him like three times in a row or something, but after all those "victories" the defeated roman armies had marched themselves so hard into his formations that pyrrhus had no soldiers left. thus the term

>>213110994
>everyone in hollywood…is jewish
Yes

>>213107894 (OP)
Formations are actually a more recent development in the history of warfare. People weren't fighting exactly like the picture on the bottom but it was a lot less organized than top

>>213108579
> is more interesting (to normies) than Jön Snöw sitting in the commander chair and yelling instructions.
depends on the way this is done

I'm convinced a filmatization of Ad Astra Scipio and Hannibal would be sick as fuck. And that would just be a lot commanders scheming while soldiers die

>>213111622
>>213111741
iirc the ghost lights that Frodo, Sam and Gollum ser are black magic, creations of Sauron (or the land itself, having witnessed such a tragic end to so many noble warriors) to lead travelers to their doom, as is the magic keeping the visions of spectral wights under the water. Whether this magic is intentional or not is not explained, but it can be assumed that it is NOT anything created by the elves, and it is therefore not actually their spirits that linger there. I took it as something similar to the magic hanging over the barrows in the remnants of Arnor.

>>213107894 (OP)
kung fu movies influence

>>213116006
All I'm asking for is the commander keeping some warbands in reserve to deploy at a crucial juncture, as well as hiding some bandits in the woods for a final, cinematic flanking maneuver. Is that so much to ask, basic rudimentary tactics being used?

>>213107894 (OP)
Because real ancient combat was boring. Two formations would push against eachother until one routed and the majority would be killed then

>>213113836
Good read, thanks anon.

>>213108192
It was all fiction. That would be like someone in the year 5000 watching Dr. Strangelove and believing that is ww2

>>213116350
Hannibal did that stuff a bunch of times. Really bootybothered the romans, too.

>>213110459
they were easily raping the arabs even in the 50s and 60s, without "muh golem"
towelheads just suck at warfare

>>213116594
Hannibal broke r*mans to the point they out him in a house arrest instead of killing him so they could harrass him a little longer

>>213108311
you are a fucking retard dude, stop taking history lessons from /pol/ jpgs
>>213113357
dumbest mutt in the thread award

>>213116802
>broke them to the point they... defeated and tortured him
woooow got em good, did romans ever recover from this?

>>213116853
what can I say except kys nigger?

>>213116890
As you can see, even romaboo larpers two thousand years later are still salty about mister Hannibal

>>213111076
> Gets pushed backwards, gets stabbed by dwarf spike
Wat

>>213115375
oh boy, you should look up who owns all the tranny clinics

>>213114578
that's not true

>>213115813
No

>>213108068
Isn't the Iliad full of person on person battles with all the soldiers standing around, and these soldiers only really engaging eachother when it came to retrieving the body of the fallen (claiming their valuable and heroic gear)?

>>213117224
can you provide any examples that don't come from bushido: soul of japan or books citing that book?

>>213114578
Can you prove this?

>>213114175
shut up retard

>>213107916
so israel does nothing good??
you are hamas

>>213117368
Prove what? That career soldiers didn't subscribe to some bullshit about being honest compassionate and blindly following your employer?

>>213117610
>Prove what?
That, in your words, >>213114578
>bushido didn't exist even as a concept when samurai were still around

prove it popped into being when they weren't around. provide a source that says so.

>>213108038
tpbp

>>213117647
>prove that something does not exist
How about you try finding any text mentioning some "code of bushido" written before 1899

>>213117712
so you made a claim and can't actually prove it? got it.

>>213117318
葉隠聞書
五輪書
Since you probably don't read Japanese, you might at least be familiar with the Precepts of Katō Kiyomasa from 1585.

>>213117368
I think he's just a troll or American.

>>213117729
You don't prove nonexistence, sweetie

>>213117759
>pretending that hagakure and five rings is some esoteric knowledge
You should try actually reading those, though

>>213117825
>pretending they don't discuss bushido in the era of samurai when you claimed that never happened
you lost, anon