This is a thread for talking about the history of yuri media. How it started. How it developed. Its most notable moments and its "firsts".

If you're an amateur yuri scholar, pull up a seat and feel free to contribute with something interesting about yuri history you feel everyone ought to know about (but maybe doesn't).

Here's something to start the thread with.

>>4368272
So what was the first fully yuri work that had a happy ending and didn't end with the couple either dying or being separated?

>>4368272
I won’t try to speak to the super old shit but the choices of…..samples starting from the 2000’s are incredibly odd and only gets shittier moving forward

I'm not writing your kotaku article for you.

>>4368272
This seems like a pretty lackluster list, even considering that it says history of yuri but seems to only mean yuri manga.
And the post 00 choices are ultra questionable and borderline look like a trolling attempt.
Especially the 10s ones where only Citrus, Yagakimi and maybe Murcielago actually warrant being considered notable.
>>4368292
Depending on how you count yuri, but the first japanese lesbian fiction of that sort was Two Virgins in the Attic (屋根裏の二處女), from 1919.
In terms of manga, I'm not sure. It may very well be Hen?

>>4368375
>>4368575
Sounds like we need a new, better list to replace the old one. Suggestions?

>>4368422
Why when you can just read Erica's book on the first century of yuri

>>4368601
Is it actually decent and well-researched, or is it cherry picked based on the tastes of the author? I generally respect Erica's work, but I'm always apprehensive about any published English work regarding Japanese media, especially when it comes to history.
On that note, I'm curious if there's any fundamental Japanese work on the history of yuri that's worth reading...

>>4368292
Paros no Ken from 1986

>>4368575
Which ones would you have chosen for the different years?

>>4368901
NTA but I don't think it should be one for each year anyway. There isn't for pre-10s either and there is no real value in it for a timeline.
Kase-san, Citrus and YagaKimi are notable enough but the rest seem like padding.
'Maybe' MahoAko in 2019 for being the definite yuri ecchi representative.

>>4368577

>>4368375
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGPSeHvILRo

>>4368375
The closer charts like this get to the present, the more contentious the choices will become. Always.

>>4368989
These things always just attract people who want to disguise their favorites or downplay their dislikes like it is fact instead of opinion. 99.9% of /u/ has no broader knowledge of yuri outside of the scanlation scene and will decide what they think popular means based entirely on that anyway. I think the history of yuri is more interesting when examining a single work to see how it came to be, what homage it played to a prior work, or what direct influence it had on the future rather than listing out a bunch of random titles.

>>4368989
I think that’s a fair call. The more recent something is, the less iconic/important it probably feels, at least to older fans

But these examples are dogshit still. How is Death Defying Princess on this list at all. What argument even is there. And if we are including webcomics, since Her Shim Choon is there, then this list missing even more important titles

>>4368996
A whole lot of words to say absolutely nothing.

>>4368996
I agree with what you're saying, but I was more thinking that it's always easier to fit older works into some kind of canon because the passing of time has already done most of the work of sorting the wheat from the chaff for us, resulting in a broad consensus about what does and doesn't deserve to be singled out as notable in the formative years of the genre. But the same isn't true of more recent works, since we don't have that benefit of hindsight, etc., to draw on, meaning that almost any suggested recent work will be contentious.

>>4368989
How iconic something truly is only manifests over time, naturally. Though a history of yuri list not including Kannazuki no Miko is already a non-starter no matter what.
>>4368877
>On that note, I'm curious if there's any fundamental Japanese work on the history of yuri that's worth reading...
No fundamental one, though a few relatively extensive papers have been writen on it. None available in anything other than japanese, to my kmowledge.

>>4368996
>. 99.9% of /u/ has no broader knowledge of yuri outside of the scanlation scene and will decide what they think popular means based entirely on that anyway
While thats true, I question how relevant that really is for yuri of the last 30 years. There is no influential/massively popular yuri work that isn't at least fan-translated I could think of.

>>4369003
I can read Japanese, but finding this sort of stuff in Japanese is not my strongest point... If they are papers, I'll try LibGen or Google Scholar I guess, thanks

>>4369006
Check the cited works of the JP wiki yuri page, it has quite a few. Most of them are books on homosexuality in japan that cover yuri among them (many written before 00, so they often don't call it by name obviously).

>>4368877
It's a collection of essays she's written over the years on the subject, plus a new one for the release. From what I read so far yes it is.

>>4368978
It's wild that my lesbian experience with lonliness is considered definite in the genre since it's autobiographical

>>4368996
I think the most interesting thing about the history of yuri is trying to look for larger trends throughout time

>>4369022
Its considered definite by whoever made that list and considering some of their other choices, it seems more like a meme list anyway.
That being said, I'd actually think it deserves a spot on a yuri timeline for starting other "IRL lesbian experience" works.

>>4369027
It ironically signified the end of “but we’re both girls” in yuri

>>4369027
No I agree with you and the list maker. This and the girl who can't get a girlfriend are great for that

There is an irl lesbian manga about a woman, her wife and the child they were raising that never got translated and I wish it did

>>4369032
You got a name?

>>4369031
I'd say YagaKimi takes that spot, by being the first big 'romance' yuri manga to deliberately eschew that entirely. Although you could say Citrus being about stepsisters already showed it wasn't dramatic enough for the readership anymore by that point.
I feel like there is a interesting line for that sjift you could draw righ through Sakura trick on that timeline. After Kase-san and before Citrus.

>>4369036
I definitely think a shift happened around the half of the 2010’s that broke with what had been the norm for the past decennia

>>4369022
Its more wild because its not actually yuri. Its a (very good) manga about depression and mental health issues that happened to be written by a lesbian. Her lesbianism doesn't even factor into most of it.

>>4369047
Its a story about someone having their life fixed through sex with a lesbian prostitute. Literally healed by yuri.
I think that counts.

>>4369083
The manga isn't yuri. It's an autobiographical tale of a depressed woman with mommy issues. That's it.

>>4369086
If it’s not yuri why is it in the yuri section

>>4369100
NTA and regardless of this being yuri or not, I definitely wouldn't leave it up to individual private businesses to define what is and isn't yuri.
Opinions can differ.

Yuri started in 2008 when I started watching Strike Witches.
This is canon.

>>4368577
I was going to suggest using the recommendation charts from the sticky thread (>>3145651) to help fill out the timeline, but since those charts got 404'd when the board got wiped last year, I'll repost them here in case there's anything useful to the thread that's been overlooked.

>>4369526

>>4369528

>>4368877
>Is it actually decent and well-researched, or is it cherry picked based on the tastes of the author?
I've just finished it and it was more the latter than the former, which I blame more on the intended target audience and assumed enviroment in which she wrote those than herself.
She talks mostly about queer representation and feminism and how yuri interacts with that.
Decently interesting and obviously relevant, but also way too incomplete to be about the history of the 'genre'.

Insofar the history of yuri is concerned, there isn't anything in it the average /u/ser wouldn't know and a lot isn't in it you would know, but she refuses to talk about. Again, its for a very basic bitch casual audience.

A bit disappointing, because in some parts (when she wrote about nanoha, you could feel the love) I got the feeling I'd like to hear from Erika the-yuri-lover and not the gender studies pamphlets for ANN. And then maybe it'd be a more complete explaining of the history of the 'genre'.

>>4369580
Tbh, the former is why I bought the book rather than the latter. Because you're 100% right with it not having stuff that most of us don't know but it is nice to reference in a more formal way. But maybe there should be a follow up that focuses more on the genre itself. That or we get more people on the academic side of the genre publishing books

>>4369586
>but it is nice to reference in a more formal way
I think thats fair, the first 15-20% of the book about the origin of the name and where the "dark-haired emotionally vulnerable/bright-haired genki girl" come from etc. are not necessarily "researched" but good reference material if you'd have to explain it to someone.

>That or we get more people on the academic side of the genre publishing books
I'd kinda like something from one of those early yuri manga authors and how they saw 'their' influences.
This thread made me shop around a bit for more meta-yuri books/magazines on jp websites.

>>4369595
>meta-yuri books/magazines on jp websites.
Is there? I'd like to see it

>>4369580
Only thing that bothered me is that you can tell she REALLY hates Kannazuki no Miko and constantly misrepresents it to make her ideological point.

>>4368978
You should post that on /a/, this chart is some real shitposting material.

>>4369755
You do it and get back to us with the results.

>>4369755
You do it and stay there where you belong.

>>4370324
>>4370331
Duality of clam.

The oldest archived /u/ thread is a request thread
https://old.sage.moe/u/thread/74881/

But it's impossible to know what was being requested because the archive uses placeholder images in place of the lost originals.

>>4370817
Most of the really early archived threads seem to be request threads or dump threads. This is the earliest discussion thread I could find, and it's only a few posts long:
https://old.sage.moe/u/thread/74977/

>>4370817
>>4370950
We've grown up so much.

>>4370956
Eh, the dump threads are still with us, and so are the anons who think the term "shoujo-ai" originated in Japan.

Knowing Japanese people, I'm pretty sure someone wrote an incredibly detailed piece on the history of yuri and only ever sold it physically on Comiket, selling 10 copies or something. This happens so damn often.

>>4371366
Knowing Murphy's law, it was probably translated and posted to /u/ by a really dedicated poster exactly once, but the thread wasn't scraped by old.sage.moe or archiveofsisns.

>>4372681
You're joking but it's a very real thing to feel.

Yoshiya "Mother of Yuri" Nobuko.

>>4368272
>no kanazuki no miko
>no sasameki koto
Fuck, I bet a lot of people were brought into yuri by Madoka. I know that KnM is when I fell in love (it also helped me realize I liked girls). Noir was also part of that discovery, but I don't think many people would put Noir on a history of yuri list. Still, KnM was pretty defining if you were a teenager in 2004.

>>4369673
To be fair to her, Kannazuki no Miko isn't actually good and Kaishaku are massive hacks who managed to destroy most of the goodwill they had by making Amnesian. What makes Kannazuki no Miko worth remembering at all is that Chikane and Hiemko themselves were such incredible characters, and I'd argue they had a pretty massive impact on the genre. What is MadoHomu if not Chimeko 2.0? At least Kaishaku realized the only people who cared about them were chimeko fans so they put out Himegami no Miko which was honestly great.

>>4373251
>Kannazuki no Miko isn't actually good
Kannazuki no Miko is absolutely excellent. Pretty much did everything right, the later stories being shitty doesn't make it any less good either.

>>4373251
Leaving aside how I completly disagre with KnM not being good (its pretty much peak yuri at least for anime), its funny you say
>and I'd argue they had a pretty massive impact on the genre. What is MadoHomu if not Chimeko 2.0?
Because this lack of awareness of yuri's history is something she specifically mentions, when she points out how few people realise this whole "dark-haired emotionally disturbed yamato nadeshiko + bright-haired genki girl" literally dates back to Shiroi Heya no Futari and has been in the genre since then. Himeko and Chikane are just another example of it.

>>4372864
This is her (left) with her sister-girlfriend (right) she adopted her btw

>>4373259
I mean, I love KnM. Its one of my favorite anime and manga of all time. But its heavily flawed in ways I probably wouldnt be accepting of if not for how good Chikane and Himeko are

>>4373265
Oh the dark hair girlfucker x bright hair genki is a really old trope and I fucking fall for it every single fucking time. I get baited by it over and over and over again and I will never not be baited by it because it's just so good aesthetically. But I was more talking about the specific aspects of insanity that both Chikane and Homura display (being willing to sacrifice the entire universe for the person they love). It could just be because I'm not quite old and well read enough (I'm in my mid 30s), but I don't feel like that aspect of yuri was as popular before. Correct me if I'm wrong of course.
Honestly, I really should *actually* read some of these older books rather than just reading lots *about* them. Like, a list of 90's and earlier yuri manga/books would probably go a long way for me because I suck at figuring out whats good and/or important.

>>4373284
>But I was more talking about the specific aspects of insanity that both Chikane and Homura display (being willing to sacrifice the entire universe for the person they love).
I don't feel like that makes it a totally new archetype, but I think it is true that KnM is basically the point where shoujo yuri and seinen yuri merged into eachother for good. And Chikane/Homura/Toga etc. are the emotionally unstable yamato nadeshiko from shoujo merged into seinens yandere predatory lesbian (usually purple haired, ex. Miranda in Battle Athletes etc.). In that regard at least Chikane is 'original'.

Does anyone know how Eien no Filena ends? It's a LN series that ran from 1984 to 1994, about a deposed princess raised as a male gladiator. Early on, she meets a slave prostitute named Lila, who finds out about her true gender and whom Filena marries to protect her. By the end of the OVA, which I think covers the first volume, they're developing real feelings for each other.

As far as I know, it's the first marriage in yuri, so it'd be interesting to know how things go for them.

Hello aunties!

>>4373538
I dunno about the LN but in the SNES JRPG adaptation Filena and Lila end up ruling the land together as queens after overthrowing the evil empire and deposing the forces controlling everything from behind the scenes (who turn out to be aliens or robots or some whack shit like that).

Though I do note that the SNES JRPG does seem to have a more flippant depiction of their relationship than the OVA/LN: in the OVA, the marriage is Filena's idea and its initially just to protect Lila from being used by some scumbag and its initially just an arrangement of convenience, while in the JRPG Lila basically insists she's Filena's wife from the beginning with Filena having no say in the matter and it seems Lila just immediately falls in love with her on first sight.

So I'm curious, how yuri is glass mask? All I ever see is yuri art from it. Isn't it a het series?

>>4373539
The real mark of a Yuri auntie is to get your nieces into the genre

>>4373539
Hello, dearie, would you like a cough drop from my purse?

>>4373265
>"dark-haired emotionally disturbed yamato nadeshiko + bright-haired genki girl" literally dates back to Shiroi Heya no Futari
It would be nice if we could trace it back further. The Rows of Cherry Trees, that 50s table tennis manga, already has the genki girl established and it's getting there with the yamato nadeshiko oneesama. She isn't exactly emotionally disturbed, but she's a lot more childish and socially inept than you'd expect. The imouto acts a bit odd towards her for a bit and she goes into full icy bitch mode, leaving it to the imouto to resolve their tiff.

Chibi-Usa and Hotaru (Sailor Saturn) from Sailor Moon are another precursor to HimeChika and MadoHomu. Hotaru's clearly in love with her friend (especially in the manga), disturbed in the sense that she's possessed by an evil being and she's powerful enough to destroy Earth. However, her using her powers for Chibi-Usa never really comes up. At one point Chibi-Usa even prevents her from using an attack that would have killed the villain and Hotaru herself.

Similarly, the main dilemma of the third series is whether the good guys should just kill Hotaru to get rid of the spirit possessing her, which is central to the bad guys' plan. Of course Sailor Moon would object to killing an innocent anyway, but the innocent being her future daughter's future girlfriend gives her additional motivation.

So many of the themes and tropes are already present, but the sacrifice and world-ending power elements are independent of the yuri elements. They actually enable the story to end without anyone being sacrificed.

>dark-haired emotionally disturbed yamato nadeshiko + bright-haired genki girl
Anyone remember the specific name of this trope? I read it once when reading an essay about the history of yuri, but I can't find it anymore

>>4372864
Are there any translations of her work?

>>4373611
"Crimson Rose and Candy Girl".

>>4368270 (OP)
>history
*herstory

>>4373634
That's the one. Thanks sis

what's the current zeitgeist in yuri trope?

>>4373538
Wild that someone asks this wuestion, because I just watched the OVA on the weekend and hunted down the LN and SNES game to answer this very question.
https://archive.org/details/filena/%E6%B0%B8%E9%81%A0%E3%81%AE%E3%83%95%E3%82%A3%E3%83%AC%E3%83%BC%E3%83%8A1/
Haven't gotten around to properly reading it yet though. From a glance, at least I can say they stay together
>>4373568
>It would be nice if we could trace it back further. I haven't gotten around to it yet, but I'd bet some girls in the Hanamonogatari fit the bill.
Ultimately its such a basic contrast, I'm not sure anyone could really be said to have been Pair 0 for it, because fundamentally its a upper class/lower class dynamic. I'd wager you can find the seeds of it already in much much earlier japanese non-lesbian literature.

>Early in her career, Yoshiya wrote a letter to her Monma threatening war on male writers who she saw as chauvinist pigs, who could care less about the meaningful relationships girls could have with each other. “Almost to the point of endorsing obscenity, they push on girls the idea that they should be flirting with men,” she wrote, coming to what she saw as a perfectly logical conclusion. “I will do battle with them face-to-face shouting ‘begone you demons’ and exorcise them from our midst.”
No idea how authentic this claim really is, but the grandmother of yuri throwing a fit about authors wanting men flirting with girls in girls literature made me laugh.

>>4368272
>shitrus is 13 years old

>>4373642
If you were to only follow popular releases on here, it would be menhara. But I personally think it's isekai (DQ tier fantasy or Otome)

>>4373643
>I'd wager you can find the seeds of it already in much much earlier japanese non-lesbian literature.
Or even classic Western literature, since it was very popular and influential in Yoshiya's days. The heroine becoming involved with a sexy weirdo social superior and figuring out what's wrong with them goes back to at least Jane Eyre.

>I haven't gotten around to it yet, but I'd bet some girls in the Hanamonogatari fit the bill.
If you do, keep us posted.

>>4373617
Just a short story called Yellow Rose, available as an ebook.

>>4373654
People were HYPED for Citrus back then

Mei was the perfect schizo who did stupid but funny shit for shock values, and Yuzu was heralded as a badass who got things done when she exposed that teacher. Then it kind went downhill and turned into the typical romance slop.

>>4373694
>Yellow Rose
I think this is referenced in Hana monoigatari (the old lady yuri) too, gonna give it a read

>>4373697
In the original run or plus?

I read Nobuko Yoshiya's Yellow Rose. Certainly worth reading if you're interested in yuri history and an enjoyable story on its own.

I kind of assumed it would be more ambiguous about the nature of the women's relationship, but no, there's Sappho, kissing, plans to move to America together, and no outgrowing any of it. There's even a rather poignant passage about the sadness of being someone "who loves their own sex" in a conservative society.

I loved the air of refinement the story had. There's Yeats, Sappho, Japanese poetry and Meiji intellectuals. It's pretty wild that middle schoolers were reading something like this in the 1920s, and it was generally considered low art.

Another surprise was the older woman being the POV character. She's a young high school teacher named Misao Katsuragi (the Eva character is not named after her, but fun coincidence), who starts a relationship with a student.

The story is about her catastrophic failure of nerve: despite talking a good game of opposing marriage, loving another woman so much you'd be willing to die and plans to live together, she's unable to resist her girlfriend's parents asking her to convince the girlfriend to accept an arranged marriage. We never see the scene, but what a betrayal it must have been. She can't even kill herself afterwards, just disappearing into a menial existence in America.

Anyway, you can find it on LibGen, but it's just a few bucks on Amazon. It includes a longish scholarly introduction and pages of notes.

>>4373701
Obviously the original

Nobody even remembers Plus is ongoing

>>4373850
Thanks for taking a moment to write out that quick review, anon. The book sounds worth checking out.

>>4373850
I remember mentioning Nobuko Yoshiya in the /u-lit/ thread years ago and basically getting insulted for bringing her up ("that's Class S crap") so it's nice to see a serious review of her work here

>>4373643
funny to see that I'm not the only one who got into Eien no Filena recently. I think watching the OVA before jumping into the game will help you enjoy their relationship a little more, that's how I did it at least and I had a good time. It's a shame the OVA seems to have gone though some development hell as it was once planned to be a full 52 episode series. Maybe it would have at least been remembered alongside Oniisama e and such if that had been the case. Regardless, I'd also be interested in hearing how the LN's go so I hope we hear back from you at some point anon.

>>4373862
>("that's Class S crap")
I hate this made-up idea about "class-s" so much. S-culture was about very real non-platonic relationships and love between girls. Especially during its height in the late1910s/early1920s, before Freuds mentally ill projections got a hold of japanese society.
Its not about temporary love or love-until-graduation.
Blaming Nobuko for having had to put lesbianism unter 10 layers of plausible deniability under the pressure of a authoritarian goverment is highly unfair when she wrote with such obvious frankness about the topic when she still could.

The stories in her earliest work are usually tragic endings is because they're semi-autobiographic. Society simply wasn't nice to girls who loved other girls. Thats not her fault for writing a tribute to these girls, especially considering she almost certainly based these stories on some girls she knew personally.

>>4374054
>Society simply wasn't nice to girls who loved other girls.
Society is barely kind to women as is, if it's tragedy yuri, I'll take something like this thats clearly from her personal life and perspective than something cinnamon rose and candy girl where she kills herself because the author hated herself for liking women

>>4373654
>more time has passed between now and Citrus’s release than between Citrus’s release and when I started browsing 4chan
Fuck.

>>4374054
Do you have any favorite stories? It'd be nice to hear your thoughts.

I found some amateur translations of flower stories.
Pear Blossom: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1LdHB6m1hEmNgPFdIUtPhjLrseOUS3_wHCyGffcTGXe0/edit?usp=sharing
Lily of the Valley and Evening Primrose: https://edenstranslations.wordpress.com/%e8%8a%b1%e7%89%a9%e8%aa%9e%ef%bc%88%e5%90%89%e5%b1%8b%e4%bf%a1%e5%ad%90%ef%bc%89/
The latter seems to have been a project to translate the whole collection that was tragically cut short, but is all the more beautiful for it.

There is also a translation of a story called Foxfire, but you'd probably have to track down a physical copy of the magazine and it's not about a relationship between girls. If you can read Italian, Hana Monogatari has been translated as Storie di fiori. I assume it's a selection since it's just 245 pages.

>>4373251
>but I don't think many people would put Noir on a history of yuri list.
This reminded me of an interview with the Yuri Hime editorial staff talking about how seeing Noir is what inspired them to pitch the idea of Yuri Shimai in the first place, though it was rejected at the time and it wasn't until Marimite's anime came along to prove there was a big enough audience for a yuri magazine did they get the okay (also why Reine Hibiki did all for covers for early YS and YH).

https://www.hayakawabooks.com/n/n377845272272

>>4373643
Is there a fan translation of the game?

>>4373251
Maybe I'm dating myself, but I'd have absolutely included Noir.

>>4374341
Yeah, finished all the way back in 2009.

>>4374166
Different anin, but these are nice finds!

>>4374395
>dating myself
Aah, selfcest. The patrician choice

>>4373553
Seriously it's almost 300 chapters and on a Nana tier hiatus. Is it actually yuri or vague subtext?

>>4374455
Its one of the most popular shoujo ever. If it was yuri, you would know.

>>4374457
I dont and that's why I'm asking. All I ever see from this series is yuri art from the 2 leads

>>4374460
As much as I wished it was, it isn't. Unless Miuchi comes back from eternal hiatus to have Maya's meeting with her love interest of 40 years build-up end with a friendly handshake, and then run into Ayumi's arms (a nice thought) its never gonna be yuri.
That being said, it is almost certainly dead, so you could just read it and imagine your own sapphic ending I suppose.
I feel like there should have been doujin's of it way back, but they almost certainly didn't make it into the digital era. At least no yuri ones I know of.

>>4374238
>>4374395
I'm glad there are still Noir fans. I swear the, the scene of Mireille reading Kirika's letter is better than 90% of actual explicit confessions. I still remembering watching soldats fansubs of it, those were the days. They dont make em like that anymore. I'm never going to get anything like kirika begging mireille to kill her in the graveyard again.

>>4374568
is bee train not active anymore? man i should also rewatch noir again

>>4374755
BeeTrain went into hiatus in like 2012... I don't think the website even exists anymore. I think they did some contracting work up until 2015, but I'm not certain. I don't think it even exists as a legal entity anymore, but I could be wrong.

>>4373554
This never happened, I guess?

>>4374761
Some of their work was dubbed in spanish in 2024 so at least someone has the rights to some of their works or maybe they're the ones selling the rights of their shows.

>>4374799
Clealry not enough since girls still insist on writing femslash omegaverse crap

>>4374568
>>4373251
how is el cazador compared to noir? i never got around to watching it

>>4374166
After a few days of thinking, I really liked Evening Primrose. It pulls my favorite modernist trick of piling on narrators, having a woman named Shizue narrating the time her friend Oyu narrated a story her mom told her about her childhood. The story is rather mysterious (why does a daughter of a Dutch physician not recognize a priest or a cross?) and it's not immediately obvious why Shizue feels the need to narrate it. While there is yearning and romanticism in it, it explicitly doesn't explain why the mother and then Oyu became seekers and wanderers in life.

I think the point is that Shizue's desperately trying to understand Oyu, and this is the best she's got. She remembers Oyu's story verbatim, while Oyu js obviously paraphrasing her mother's. We don't learn much about Shizue and Oyu's relationship, except that they were best friends at dance school, she misses Oyu terribly and that Oyu gave her a hairpin as a memento until they'd meet again, but it's so potent as an indirect story about yearning. Oyu and her mother yearned for other places, home (as both are stuck between cultures) and maybe spiritual fulfillment, while Shizue yearns for Oyu.

Shizue is also an adult woman, so no outgrowing feelings for other women here either.

>>4375248
El Cazador is the most light hearted of the three. It also has more male characters. But it's subtext is easier to pick up on than Noir or Madlax. It's also the most supernatural of the three, with one of the characters literally having telekinetic powers. Versus Madlax which is kind of a fever dream and Madlax is maybe possible immortal? And Noir which has some implications of some sort of magic but it's pretty nebulous.
It's definitely worth watching, but it's also the weakest of the three. Sort of. It makes more sense than Madlax, but again, Madlax is a fucking fever dream that I still don't fully understand.

>>4373850
>>4374054
I can appreciate these stories for how real they are to the experiences of lesbians back then but damn if it isn't depressing. I almost find it frustrating to read period pieces starring even straight women because of this same reason - we have to see them get pushed around by the systems of the time, everything often culminating to a less-than-happy ending. I can only hope the authors of this era become increasingly bold about unapologetically including yuri in their works without fear of how it will be received.

>>4375478
You can see that bravery, imo, in any story that comments on how men treat women (or having het expectations thrown on them by other women) either then or now like in a fugue between worlds or she loves to cook she loves to eat. When you consider that even dressing in pants was insane back then and even got you arrested, women writing about living their lives with out them, especially romantically, is pretty brave even in this day and age.

>>4375478
No one is obligated to like tragic romance/yuri, just pisses me off when people look down on it as if she chose to make them sad on a whim.
She 'did' write yaneura no nishojo afterall.

But considering how much more wildly popular the hana monogatari was (literally called "the bible for girls" and created the shojo genre), it clearly did its job and resonated with the many girls it was meant to reach at the time.

And yeah I agree, we are lucky to live in a time where yuri is becoming more free every year. Even if editors and publishers are still holding it often back.

I've been reading about Nobuko Yoshiya's life and it's honestly so fascinating. How lucky is she to have lived with her wife at that time and also absolutely nightmarish that men took her work (and other women's work) and warped it like that for like a decade until women could write shoujo manga.

I hope to visit her home and Yuri Cafe Navi when I get to visit the country someday

>>4374054
Agreed. Working past your initial discomfort is worth it because not only do you get a better appreciation of history, you get to enjoy a wider range of fiction too.

>>4368575
>Two Virgins in the Attic
Plus ca change...

So far, we've got early yuri manga and yuri lit covered. What about early yuri art?

>>4377110
This is what you considered “covered”?

>>4377169
Did you have something to add, anon?

>>4377110
I've posted some of the art that was published in Shoujo Gahou, the magazine that published Yoshiya. The ones so far are all by Takabatake Kashou. Here's two by Fukiya Kouji.

>>4377372
I like the motif of one girl wearing traditional clothes while the other's a flapper.

>>4377110
There's some lesbian shunga from the Edo period. Not really my thing.

https://shungagallery.com/lesbian-shunga-ukiyo-e/

>>4377610
Okiku probably loves this

>>4373538
>>4373643
>>4373872
I took a look at the suggestion of this thread and I was seriously impressed. I mean, the OAV wasn't like a masterpiece, but I really enjoyed it. I had to immediately start the game and I'm enjoying it too. But I really wish I knew japanese because I would love to read the original novels. Filena and Lila are really sweet.

>>4378497
Someone translated the first volume and expressed interest in doing the others, but we'll see: https://www.foxaholic.com/novel/eternal-filena-vol-1/

>>4378501
Site refuses to load.

>>4379377
Looks like it's down. It worked on Wednesday, so hopefully it'll be back up soon.

>>4379377
looks like its up again now. I checked the translators kofi since that seems to be the main place they post updates and last month they said they're working on volume 2 so the project is still alive.

>>4379723
>looks like its up again now.
Guess the site has problems, because right now it's so slow that nothing loads. Hope the translators find an alternative host.

>>4377373
>I like the motif of one girl wearing traditional clothes while the other's a flapper.
It's a cool motif. How common was it?

>>4368978
Not sure if serious.

>>4382862
I really have no idea. There's some pictures like that I've posted in this thread, but all I really know about Class S art comes from looking up what comes up when you name search some of the artists.

I really like it, though. Makes you long for a novel series where they solve murders together.

I've been watching the 90s Sailor Moon anime with my niece (I'm doing my best for >>4373554) and it's gotten me thinking about Usagi (Sailor Moon) and Rei (Sailor Mars) again.

To the no doubt tiny number of /u/ unfamiliar with 90s magical girl anime, Rei and Usagi spend most of the first season fighting over everything, including a guy. Then, towards the end, they reach an understanding and become extremely close instead. As Ikuhara takes over in S2, their closeness starts involving a lot more touching and blushing than any other friendship in the series.

I don't know if anyone's ever talked about it on record (there's an old interview where Ikuhara sort of implies it), but it seems obvious the subtext is intentional. You don't really draw something like this by accident and they're both attracted to girls other than each other. The resident ESP lesbian Michiru even compares their relationship to her and her girlfriend's in the last season, made after Ikuhara left.

The thing I find incredibly compelling is that the relationship is doomed. Usagi's destined to marry the previously-mentioned guy, and it is of cosmic significance. And while Usagi herself is perfectly happy to marry him, Usagi's scenes and chemistry with her are better. They absolutely did not need to do any of that. The manga, for instance, gives Rei mutual gay feelings for Sailor Venus. What they did subverts the central het love story and looks forward to Utena's more open attack on heteronormativity.

So anyway, there's an esoteric yuri tragedy at the heart of this cartoon for seven-year-olds and it gave me a wound that will not heal.

>>4389984
It's especially complicated with Sailor Moon, as the original story was not supposed to be that way with UsaRei. There's been lots of writing about it done over the years, but a bunch of the anime producers seemed to really dislike Mamoru, and as a result, Usagi's relationship with him ends up feeling really weird in a lot of ways. It definitely wasn't Takeuchi's intention with Usagi either, as she put a lot of work into having other characters having more complicated sexuality (so many gay people) and gender (Haruka is canonically intersex and genderfluid for example), but didn't with Usagi and Mamoru. Indeed, their romance was meant as more or less the core of the series. Looking at the manga, their relationship takes up vastly more time than anything else that happens. So it ends up as a very strange artifact within the 90s anime specifically.

>>4389984
Looking back, I think that Usagi/Rei might have been my first ship, long before I'd ever even learn what shipping was.

>>4389984
Anon you responded to, Proud of you for getting the next generation of women into the genre. But as someone who only knows of sailor moon via cultural osmosis, christ that's horrifying

>>4378501
I read this recently and had a good time with it but threats to the yuri loom large. Having played the game I know and enjoyed how the the story goes there and will be following the translation. But the author's note was particularly interesting from that regard, feels like he was weighing which way he was going to go with it the whole time he was writing. I feel like it won't be as conclusive as I want it to be but I think I will enjoy the knife edge feeling knowing something of the final result.

>>4390316
Makes you wonder what if Sailor Moon was in the current times.

>>4390385
*was made. But yeah, in general, Sailor Moon was truly ahead of its time.

>>4388914
>Makes you long for a novel series where they solve murders together.
It does have that Golden Age of Crime vibe, doesn't it.

>>4377373
Flip flappers

>>4390369
Without spoiling anything, but if you played the game you've already seen the most yuri version of their story.
It doesn't have anything like a het ending, but its not as conclusive as the game either.

>>4390529
appreciate this, will still follow the translation but adjust my expectations accordingly

>>4390316
The old anime also made the odd decision of aging Mamoru up from the manga's high schooler to a university student, which makes his relationship to the 14-year-old Usagi very awkward. Not that he comes across as a creep, so much as an adult forced by destiny to humor a child. Maybe the initial goal was to keep him more as a distant figure of admiration and focus more on the girls' friendships, but having to keep a character like that around for years probably gets annoying, even if he isn't blocking your ship.

Part of it comes from the manga, but the anime really doesn't make Mamoru very reliable. He's always getting kidnapped, brainwashed, killed or sending his past self orders to break up with Usagi for ill-explained reasons and other things of that nature. Rei, however, is a rock.

I don't think Usagi's sexuality's that simple in the manga either. Her first meeting with Rei, though it fizzles out, is much gayer than the anime's, and she's obviously into Haruka. Then there's lots of smaller stuff. I think she's pretty consistently depicted as bi.


>>4390358
>But as someone who only knows of sailor moon via cultural osmosis, christ that's horrifying
Haven't you ever seen one half of your OTP take a deadly attack for the other? Not seen the girl she protected break down, pleading for her to live because they promised they'd always be together? Not realized there wasn't a scene of them making such a pledge, so it must have happened in a private moment too tender to draw? Not watched the dying girl tell the girl she so clearly loves to keep strong, because she won't be alone, because she has her boyfriend (she doesn't have him; he's a flake who left to study abroad and got himself killed yet again, yet it's he who gets to have her once she's defeated the cosmic horror and resurrected everyone)? Kids these days.

>>4389984
>>4390316
As some who was very into the manga and anime, manga Rei was an entirely different character in the anime. Iirc it's because they thought Usagi needed a rival/someone on the team to butt heads with since it was a popular character dynamic back then. Manga Rei was completely indifferent towards men and had the most subtext with Minako. Anime Rei is lobotomized compared to the stoic and mature Manga Rei. She's boy crazy and downright immature in her arguments with Usagi, a compeltely different character really. The whole thing with the Star Lights changing sex in human form to be male so Usagi's fling with one of them isn't gay is also some bullshit the anime studio did. Takeuchi's on record saying the Star Lights were always just crossdressing when playing as school boys and that she was shocked when she saw that Toei added a transformation where they physically transformed into males. Also in the same interview she talked about this, she confirmed that Haruka isn't intersex, just female. https://www.theblackmoon.com/Naoko/take.html
There is a line in the manga where Haruka says something along the lines of being both a man and woman but I don't know what the original Japanese line was, but it's that line alone that has Westerner interpreting her as some sort of trans when it was more likely a confirmation of her being a gender nonconforming female in Japanese.

>>4391179
I vastly prefer Rei's anime characterization (and find the manga barely functional as a work of fiction). Manga Rei is a an aloof, mysterious beauty, while anime Rei is a middle schooler who very much wants to be seen as an aloof, mysterious beauty. This is both funny and very human. She isn't lobotomized, she's 14. When you're doing teen superheroes, leaning into their immaturity is a smart move that'll let you do some nice pathos when things get serious, like the end of the first season.

Plus, it would have been absolutely deadly if Usagi had to spend the first 24 episodes as the sole dumbass cast member before Jupiter appeared.

>>4390529
are the girls still together by the end in the novel? I looked at the illustrations but didn't see anything to support it.

>>4391897
>are the girls still together by the end in the novel?
Nothing suggests by the end they would be apart, for what its worth. But its not as explicit as the game.

>>4394503
thanks, appreciate it.

>>4390529
Hmm dang. It's a shame the OVA didn't get more, because I really liked what they did with it.

Hystorians of /u/, what was the first yuri meme?

>>4397435
Yuri goggles apparently goes back to 2004 but didn't really become a thing till 2009 when K-On aired. Agony ending redraws kicked off in 2007 and while I can't imagine that's the first it does continue to this day so that might be the longest one to stay relevant?

>>4397453
Does "we're cousins by the way" from Sailor Moon count?

>>4397435
Maybe the panties on head meme? Not sure.

>>4397453
>>4397668
>Yuri goggles
>Panties on head

>>4397477
That anon has to be right. They were just roommates / friends / cousins is way older.

>>4397477
>>4397739
Surely this is a trope rather than a meme?

>>4397453
Holy shit i just go neuro activation from many years ago wtf my head hurts

Digging around KYM and Fanlore
>Agony/Miko Embrace Redraws (2007)
>Yuri Goggles (2009)
>Magnet Redraws (2009)
>That's Forbidden Love/Girl Can't Love Girls (2011)
>Yuri Shall Conquer the Earth! (2013)
>Yuri Is The Purest Form Of Love (2013)

There has to be earlier examples than this but they're probably on some long dead Sailor Moon webrings or the Shoujo-Ai Archive forums. It is kind of funny seeing how many of them came from here, compared to nowadays where it's all happening on twitter.

>>4397435
Onee-sama fixing a crooked ribbon got meme'd since Marimite. So since the 80s.

>>4398163
>So since the 80s.
90s of course. Though I guess early 00s would be more accurate.

Imagine yuri history if Yumi had just pushed down that haughty bitch Satchmo.

>>4398194
Elaborate on that. Let's hear this alternate timeline.

A little class S manga from 1951

>>4400735
Nice find!

How common was shinjū in early yuri manga? Given that "doomed romance" was the default back then, it feels like there'd have to be at least a couple of shinjū plots.

>>4401770
In the 70s manga involving lesbian romance, suicide and attempted suicide were common, but in my experience most were 1 person rather than both. Riyoko Ikeda 's Futari Pocchi ended with a double suicide, but the lesbian romance was one-sided. One of Hiroko Fukuhara's stories had 2 girls dead in an apparent shinjuu, but I can't remember which series that was and I think it was kind of incidental.

Not manga, but Moyuru Hana in Hanamonogatari ended with effectively a form of shinjuu.

The real life 1911 Niigata shinjuu of 2 schoolgirls was an event that shaped public impressions of lesbian relationships in Japan, and led to a bunch of copycat incidents.

>>4401770
>>4401789
Oh and a big plot point in Onii-sama e was Rei wanted to shinjuu with Fukiko, but that didn't pan out how she wanted.

>>4401789
>>4401792
Hey, thanks for the detailed reply. Gonna be adding these to my morbid to-be-read pile.

>>4401800
You probably know this already, but there's a "Depressing/Bleak" category tag on lililicious.

>>4399402
I realize blaming one work for industry-wide trends is dumb, and the neo-Class S / Super best-friendness of so much anime appeals to many groups that unambiguous yuri doesn't. Still, it would have been nice if one of the formative texts of 00s yuri had made going there a little less automatic.

Though I don't want to rag on Marimite too much, since at least it does have LGBT characters.

>>4402826
Wow, I hope this half decade's Lillicious release has that tag!

>>4402847
>5 years of gloom to dive into
Oh, I'm gonna be eatin' good!

>>4401789
>most were 1 person rather than both
Damn, that's the kind of blue ovaries I hate the most.

>>4404280
What's the second kind?

>>4405464
Anon is not taking questions at this time.

The old Cutie Honey manga from 1973 (so two years after Shirou heya no futari) is quite something. Honey goes to an all-girls school in the mountains, where the separation from men has reportedly turned everyone crazy, which is to say lesbian. We aren't talking about the most positive representation here; Honey's teacher has a moustache and hairy legs and is hot for her while also being in a relationship with another teacher. The teacher in charge of discipline is a sexual sadist, and the delinquents, well, see pic related.

>>4408309
However, Honey's roommate Natsuko confesses she too liked Honey from the start (causing Honey to blush), and her portrayal is entirely positive. Honey also likes to flirt with her like this.

Natsuko is also responsible for the one emotionally resonant moment in the manga, which is otherwise mostly a crude comedy. The villains attack the school and kill everyone. Honey manages to get Natsuko to safety but is wounded herself and waiting to self-destruct. Natsuko, however, realizes what's happening and leaves her hideout pretending to be Honey, intentionally goading the villains into killing her in a way that leaves her body unrecognizable. This saves Honey's life.

>>4408311
So what to make of it? You could see it as a precursor to anime that's willing to engage in lesbian subtext while refusing to say "lesbian", or leave confirmed queerness to villains or comic characters. Then again, Natsuko's pretty open about her feelings.

One interesting thing about the manga is how the guys are such nonentities. Honey maybe blushes once at Seiji, but he's otherwise just a way to move the plot forward. His dad and younger brother, the incredibly obnoxious old man and brat pervert characters you see in 70s anime and manga, are far more prominent than him. Every other man is either comic relief or cannon fodder. The significant villains are all women.

>>4408314
Go Nagai is very frustrating from a yuri perspective as he had the tendency to write lesbians but never took them fully seriously and had an equal tenancy to write exceptions to their sexuality rather than write them as bisexual.
Hanappe Bazooka feels like something I would really enjoy if he hadn't done that with it. Its gross enough that I struggle to enjoy the yuri implications of his works.

I've not read it yet but volume 2 of Eternal Filena is now out.
https://www.foxaholic.com/novel/eternal-filena-vol-2/

>>4408327
thanks sis

>>4408317
Wow a man who doesn't take women seriously and water is wet

>>4408317
Yeah, from what little I've read of him, I don't think I can enjoy his work beyond the historical rnterest. Still, there's some interesting seeds planted here for boys' yuri. Like what if girl on girl isn't just hot but kind of cute and fun? And what if a girl loving another girl isn't just a phase but the deepest kind of love?

Anyway, I'm happy Natsuko got to become a cool tsundere cop and bagged Honey is Re: Cutie Honey.

>>4408435
Not like they make it easy or anything.

>>4408714
Wow another man who consumes lesbian media but doesn't take real women seriously...

And the sky is blue

>>4408556
I want to amend this: Devilman is actually really good. It's kinda wild to realize how just about all Japanese urban fantasy derives from it, from Shin Magami Tensei to Sailor Moon (with some added Cutie Honey).

>>4370950
The thread may have way more replies at the time. The archive only archives 10 million or so posts

does anyone know much about Rontai Baby? I saw it being recommend for having a similar vibe to Sukeban and Transfer Student, except it was actually published in the 80s instead of being inspired by it. It's tagged as yuri on a lot of English sites but given its age and lack of translation that very well could just be people making shit up.

>>4415846
I don't know much about it but
>Summary

Mannen Hisako and Hachiya Mayuko , who do not belong to any group or motorcycle gang, are good at fighting and tend to stand out. They are targeted in tie hunts (the act of stealing the ties from uniforms) to determine hierarchical relationships , and are called in to help in the turf wars between the Cattleya gangs. The war spreads and involves the motorcycle gangs Bianka and Mai, and grows bigger. When Tokina Nobuo , whom Hachiya Mayuko has feelings for, dies in an accident, Mannen Hisako 's boyfriend, Nikando Hiro , also gets caught up in the motorcycle gang wars.

>As the conflict develops, the two experience a flirtatious romance and a relationship with an older man.

Even by the standards I'd apply to a 80s manga, I struggle to see any sort of even subtext potential hidden behind this summary.
The tags are weird enough I might check out the available ebooks, but I don't think there is gonna be much (anything) there.

>>4409753
>>4408556
I love Nagai and would love that kind of attitude in a yuri manga (closest is Murcielago I guess?) but yeah not exactly a yuri-friendly author
>Devilman Lady implied to be yuri incest
>well one of them turns into a man and they merge together and actually they were the feminine and masculine sides of Satan/Ryo all along

>>4416323
ah yeah that does sound pretty thin on possible yuri subtext. I came across an old livejournal post by the yurisuki site owner that briefly mentioned it so maybe that's how its ended up with the yuri tag on so many sites.
https://mizuno-youko.livejournal.com/96223.html

>>4369580
As someone who's been familiar with her since the 2000s Erica was always too tied to very specific US anime scholar cliques and frankly quite insecure as a result to be a great source. Even in the 2000s she was making implications of "this is for men" (remember she went back & changed the "loser fanboy" scores to "service" in recent years) while reviewing extremely girly things like Yuri Hime Wildrose when Yuri Hime's readership was 70% female and had a ton of authors who also did yaoi. She goes back and forth from "Go Nagai is my hero" to "I like Murcielago, but it's so-bad-it's-good", calling Precure of all things oversexualized on Facebook, walking back on past statements about liking certain "touchy" things, or doing little mini-apologies while recommending similar manga/anime.

A lot of yuri, stuff by women and/or with significant female followings included, is pretty damn hard to market from that activism-focused "representation" perspective. For a really overt example, when the authors of Akuma no Riddle & Bloom Into You release a Touhou Remilia x Flandre incest doujin, that sure as hell is "yuri culture" but it's also not something you can talk about if you're trying to appeal to that audience. If you attempted to present Itou Hachi as "representation" that would look horrifyingly bad.

Mind you I can tell that if she was part of different circles she'd have a pretty different approach.

>>4429134
Yeah, that sounds about right. I still remember reading her Nanoha reviews and how every single one included some swipe at the loser fanboys to establish she wasn't a pedophile.

Just read By Your Side. I only recommend it if you don't have basic understating of yuri history already. Like everyone else in this thread already said, Erica trys to tell the history of yuri from a LGBT activist perspective, which leads to a very limited telling of the genre. I'm not trying to say that element of yuri history is completely irrelevant (especially in regards to pre-2000s stuff like Nobuko Yoshiya and the Year 24 Group), but once you get to the 2000s and beyond, you ignore a lot of notable titles here. I don't think Yuru Yuri was mentioned once. I'm sure a better book will eventually take it's throne, I would like to see a more linear book rather than a collection of essays. One technical problem with the book's collection of essays format is that you see stuff get repeated a lot.

>>4429142
>book's collection of essays format is that you see stuff get repeated a lot.
I was really disappointed that it was just a collection of her previous work instead of new material but this and a linear chronology about the history, major titles, and trends since the 1920s would be good companions to each other

I'm annoyed at how much By Your Side gets wrong. Stuff like saying Sei doesn't identify as gay. Basic factual information such as that tsubomi switched to bimonthly right before yh and that hirari was every 4 months. Seeming to not know the oniisama e manga doesn't have the same plot as the anime.

Lots of misleading opinions too, such as basically saying 1970s shoujo manga treated straight romance as tragically as lesbian.

>>4430893
>1970s shoujo manga treated straight romance as tragically as lesbian
Wdym?

>>4430903
It's a bit apparently from this essay
www.hoodedutilitarian.com/2011/04/overthinking-things-04032011/
>This is not because of the same-sex love, very few romance manga in the 70’s had happy endings. The typical couple were doomed to never be together for one reason or another.
I really don't think this true. If you were to check out a typical, middle of the road 70s shoujo romance series the main couple would more likely than not to end happily. Whereas there were 0 (zero) lesbian romance in 70s manga that got a happy ending. In some cases homophobia plays a clear role in why too, like in Shiroi Heya no Futari.

>>4430914
>In some cases homophobia plays a clear role in why too, like in Shiroi Heya no Futari.
What do you mean? The point of that ending is that Resine should have accepted her feelings for Simone and will regret her failure to do so for the rest of her life.

>>4430920
I'm not saying the manga has a homophobic message, just that how the story unfolded and therefore ended tragically involved homophobia. I don't think it's homophobic intent on the part of the mangaka, but why it was written tragically does relate to it being a same-sex love.

>>4368575
>And the post 00 choices are ultra questionable and borderline look like a trolling attempt
Are you shitting me? How are Strawberry Panic, Girl Friends, Yuru Yuri, Sakura Trick, Citrus, Murcielago, YagaKimi, Whipser Me a Love Song and MagiRevo not appropiate? These are all big milestones in yuri history. And "The guy she was interested in[..]" is legitimately one of the biggest yuri manga right now.

>>4391221
I don't understand how you can pretend the boy crazy abomination they turned Rei into is somehow better than the one who is mature and has a stable yuri ship while not giving boys the time of day. What board are you on again?
This is why Crystal and Cosmos were so much better.

>>4398116
There is also "Yuri shall fruitcake the world" which is ancient.
A more modern one is "Girls should love girls and boys should love boys" from Prilliya.

>>4437219
Well, why not get into an Internet fight over a 30-year-old manga?

You're a fan of something that barely exists outside your head. Rei and most of the other senshi are little better than non-entities in the manga. Her stable yuri ship with Minako, I assume, is based on like four pages. One of the few substantial things featuring her is the Casablanca Memory special chapter, which is about her being tragically in love with a guy.

>>4437349
That chapter isnt actually canon and Rei is very explicitely not interestes in guys. This is some absurd bullshit you just resorted to. As if the most famous scene of them wasnt looking down on boys and saying they only need each other.
They literally wear wedding dressws at the end of cosmos, arm in arm exactly the same way as the actualy canon yuri pairing of the series and as Usagi and Mamoru. If you didnt see the point of that I'm gonna assume you are a hetshitter.

Anon's acting like this isn't one of the most iconic panels of the entire manga.

>>4438035
Also can we acknowledge that a lot of the Usagi/Rei dynamic in the 90s anime was just straight up stolen from ReiMinako in the manga?

>>4437761
>That chapter isnt actually canon
Prove it.

>As if the most famous scene of them wasnt looking down on boys
>They literally wear wedding dressws
And what glorious four pages those are. Too bad there's no meaningful build-up to any of that.

>>4438041
The anime's Rei/Usagi dynamic was established well before Minako even appeared in the manga. That chapter is from 1994 at the earliest, when Rei/Usagi was already fully formed. If anything, Takeuchi's taking ideas from the anime.

>Even though she tried to kiss me, ick
>Ugh, I really don't like you that way you know
>I would never try to kiss you, gross
I admit the no homo stuff is kind of an innovation.

>>4438047
>Rei/Usagi dynamic was established well before Minako even appeared in the manga
https://wikimoon.org/index.php/Sailor_Moon_(series)
Minako has been in the manga before Sailor Moon was even a thing. She was literally the start of the entire franchise with Codename: Sailor V.

>>4438050
Yes, but "the manga" here refers to the manga called Sailor Moon, not Codename: Sailor V. Obviously Minako can't develop a dynamic with Rei before she meets her.

Someone translated a modern manga adaptation of some of Yoshiya Nobuko's Hana Monogatari. I really like the josei art style and I like Yoshiya's sensibility, but they aren't exactly a barrel of laughs. The closest it gets to a happy ending is a double suicide.
https://mangadex.org/title/1e9b15da-41b7-4609-b672-019be4351f32/hana-monogatari

>>4441309
Considering the time period we all know these stories came from personal experiences or Nobuko sensei's friends

>>4368272
>It took 66 years for them to make an actually good yuri manga
Better late than never, eh?

>>4441330
>moid moment

https://x.com/sgmttw/status/1933750464581152861

This book features 方子と末起 which is an interesting case from 1938, a short mystery story featuring a girl bed-ridden and corresponding with her lover from a girl's school, and determining that another murder will likely happen. An ambiguous end, as it's unclear if the other girl escapes in time, but she fantasizes about 'a new life' with her while waiting for her to arrive. Features Alice in Wonderland as part of the mystery solution lol. Of course you can and should just read it on Aozora.

>>4441334
Obsessed, rent free.

>>4441388
Neck yourself

>>4441394
Spend less time getting angry on the internet.

>>4441334
>>4441388
>>4441394
>>4441395
The quality of posts is extremely important to this community. Contributors are encouraged to provide high-quality images and informative comments.

>>4441395
Spend less time making quippy reddit tier posts on /u/

>>4441396
>Contributors are encouraged to provide high-quality images

>>4438047
Make's you wonder how Sailor Moon would be had it come out today or even back during Madoka Magica's time.

>>4441401
Funnily enough, Sailor Moon is far more explicit about its yuri than Madoka. There's a couple of kisses in the manga and Haruka and Michiru are in an explicitly sexual relationship in both.

>>4441401
I don't think that could even be a possible. Isn't Sailor Moon considered to be a predecessor to PMMM? So if SM never aired, PMMM would never exist in the first place.

>>4441698
Yeah, Sailor Moon is where you get the magical girl/sentai hybrid.