"No True Scotsman" isn't a fallacy, it's a genuine criticism of people who have an opinion of something while lacking any real history with the subject and thus can't appreciate it properly.

I.e. if you're saying Resident Evil only "got good" when it adopted over-the-shoulder TPS gameplay but you've "loved the series" ever since then you're no real fan and need to shut the fuck up.

Nah Resident Evil 4 (2005) is great actually.

Sorry bro sometimes the hyped games are also good.

i'm a leon kennedy fan first resident evil fan second

RE4 is actionslop designed to entice retards to the franchise

>Dumbass who barely graduated high school thinks he knows better than hundreds of years of philosophic thought and teachings
Lol, lmao even

Played all recently. RE4 and RE3 were a disappointment compared to RE2. Odd that series peaked on PSX

>>712512545
Actually "No True Scotsman" is considered informal among fallacies such as ad hominem.

So eat a dick.

>>712510890 (OP)
You have the right idea but the wrong approach. People cannot write off something as a fallacy just by calling it one, they have to actually explain why the subject is that fallacy. Conversely if you can prove that there is an actual link and point behind what you're saying then it also is not a fallacy but justified. What you're probably looking for is gatekeeping, another bastardized term which has shown itself to be more important than ever nowadays.

>>712510890 (OP)
>"No True Scotsman"
I have never once seen this term uttered on /v/ after all the years I've been browsing. Ashamedly I am familiar with reddit lingo because I only got a PC in 2010 and I only knew of reddit and didn't browse 4chan. Eventually I browsed here and was immediately at home. You redditors have always been a plague on the internet.

>>712510890 (OP)
Och laddie, yer only a true Scotsman if'n yer exactly like me in ev'ry way! Stop nae bein' me, laddie! Yer supposed ta be me!

>>712514481
>logical fallacies are Reddit now

The phrase has been around since the 60s, you paranoid witch-hunting loon.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

>>712514504
>nuDucktales
NGMI

Yeah, someone who has loved a series since it got over the shoulder gameplay 20 years ago isn't a fan because some retard on the internet said that the first 9 years of the series are the only things that will ever matter. This is completely reasonable and definitely not just you shitting your diapers because people have different tastes than yourself.

>>712510890 (OP)
>"No True Scotsman" isn't a fallacy

Yes it is. Stop trying to justify your poor argumentation ability and dishonest debate tactics.

>>712514640
Och, but laddie, 'tis nae a TRUE fallacy.

>>712510890 (OP)
>this well known fallacy isn't a fallacy actually
Phew lad, what a thread

>>712514687
kek you owned that fraud

>You're not a fan if you don't like *A MINOR PART OF THE SERIES*
Damn retard.

>>712514570
Of course reddit didn't make it up they're incapable of creative thought. Your reddit spacing says it all. /v/ is has a chock full of intelligent people but I can spot your ilk a mile away from all the time I spent browsing that shithole under unfortunate circumstances.

>>712514991
Yer nae a true fan unless ye like all tha parts I like an' dinnae like all the parts I dinnae like.

Stop nae bein' me, laddie.

>>712515123
>/v/ is has a chock full of intelligent people

You certainly aren't hasn't don't couldn't shan't one of them.

>>712515123
>Reddit spacing! Reddit breathing! Reddit existing! REDDIT EVERYWHERE! REDDIT REDDIT REDDIT! YUM YUM DELICIOUS ERGOT TAINTED RYE! REDDIIIIIIIIIIIT!

WHEN EVERYTHING IS REDDIT

NOTHING WILL BE

>>712510890 (OP)
I just enjoy fun videogames, and I find the newer REs fun. I don't give a shit about your purity test, nerd.

>>712514687
>>712514817
>Samefagging in such an obvious manner

Sad.

>>712510890 (OP)
>"No True Scotsman" isn't a fallacy, it's a genuine criticism of people who have an opinion of something while lacking any real history with the subject and thus can't appreciate it properly.
Wrong.
>if you're saying Resident Evil only "got good" when it adopted over-the-shoulder TPS gameplay but you've "loved the series" ever since then you're no real fan and need to shut the fuck up.
Correct.

It's just like how "slippery slope" is meant to be a fallacy but it's actually just the truth because there are countless examples of it in action.

>>712515123
Reddit houses the female author who has written the frontrunner for GOTY 2025. So you're dead fucking wrong already.

How bored do you have to be to wake up in the middle of the night and start shitposting?

this is what happens when you believe shit like "gamer cred" is real

>>712515405
That's witch talk, son! BURN THE WITCH! BURN THE WIIIIIIIIITCH!

remakes are bad and for fags
no one has ever rebutted this

>>712514602
Did he just do a no true scotsman himself while bitching about the concept? It seems like he did.

>>712514602
yes, you are objectively a better and bigger fan if you liked Leon before RE4 came out, for example, and if you "started" the series with RE4, RE5, let alone any of the remakes, you literally could never be as much of an RE fan as people who were into it before then
this also applies to musicians, long-running TV shows, film directors, actors, etc.
glad you understand how it works

>>712510890 (OP)
You misunderstood why it's a fallacy then.
If you had good arguments, you should be able to make a case for why over-the-shoulder TPS gameplay is inferior independant on the "true fan" status of the person making the claim.

If you can't, you're not moving in the realm of logic which is what logical fallacies are all about.

(Protip: since you're talking about taste and not logic, your entire outset is flawed and you're doomed to fail)

>>712514570
>logical fallacies are Reddit now
of course they are, 4chan has slowly become the breeding grounds for the most schizo illogical radicalized people on the internet to spout their nonsense and when they encounter one of the most robust tools to be critical and reasonable they can only flail like babies and resort to tribalism. If OP isnt just bait, this is definitely one of the biggest COPEs I've ever seen on this board so far desu.

>>712514481
It's the most popular fallacy on 4chan behind goalpost moving,

>>712515917
Don't care didn't read your cope go back to shitting your diapers

>>712510890 (OP)
I like REmake and RE4
REZero is boring
I won't play the original RE from 1996 because it looks like shit
I'll get around to playing RE2 eventually

>>712515938
I'm not big on conspiracy theories but looking back it seems reasonable to me that making a huge portion of young males have negative attitude towards logic, education and empathy is most likely the result of a psyop.
Spaces like this are a gigantic "useful idiot" factory. Telling young men that they can take "red pills" to become superior to the "NPCs" while making anti-intellectualism and gut feeling their biggest virtues is a master class of manipulation.

>>712510890 (OP)
You sound like you suck cock by choice.

if you jump onto a TV show at season 3 without going back to watch from the beginning, you're retarded and your opinion on the TV show doesn't matter

>>712515183
more reddit spacing.
>>712515198
again more reddit spacing this one was on purpose.
>>712515405
Why are you so hellbent on defending that shithole? I don't de-legitimize E-33 because the devs browsed reddit, it's a popular.site.
>>712515556
Faggot.

>>712515405
>reddit houses the dumb chick who wrote the french JRPG that no one will remember in a year
cool beans
but I'm not french or canadian, thank fucking god, so that game looks lame

>>712510890 (OP)
You are misunderstanding what
>no true scotsman
actually means and what makes it a fallacy.

It requires both someone continually changing the criteria to support their argument AND the other person proving examples that either the changed criteria are bullshit or counter examples of it being the case.
If someone says "no true scotsman" for setting a criteria they are fucking retarded, calling out a logical fallacy is in it self a logical fallacy, you need to prove why the argument is wrong, not why the argument isn't logically sound based on a known criteria, they are known because they are known how to prove wrong, not because it cannot be right.

>>712516079
The problem is these when faggots spout such moral superiority. You can have a discussion just don't start your opinion off stating you're better than everyone I see that too much

>>712516216
>WITCHES EVERYWHERE! THE WITCHES ARE OUT TO GET ME! HEE HEE HA HA HA HEE HEE!

>>712516385
it's not hard to feel superior when the current generation is mostly remakes of shit you liked 20 years ago

>>712510890 (OP)
The reason it is a fallacy is because people are allowed to enjoy things. Take the whole Remake/Rebirth debacle where its easy to dismiss someone who enjoyed the game because "If you were a real fan of the original you would want the same thing but with better GRAAAAAAAPHICS!"
It's easily countered with "Well if you were a true fan of the original you wouldn't need it to have updated graphics".
Basically OP is retarded.

>>712516385
But that's how the 4chan algorithm works:
Latest post gets bumped to the top, so ensuring many posts in short order means a thread stay on top for longer.
When amount of replies is the only metric of quality then naturally the userbase will (probably mostly subconciously) find ways to game the very simple algorithm of the board software for dopamine points.

That's why infammatory OPs and posts are the norm, it all gets down to the userbase considering # of replies to be the main metric of success on this site.

>>712516706
Wrong
What is wrong with
>Well if you were a true fan of the original you wouldn't need it to have updated graphics
If you are a fan of the original, you don't need updated graphics, that is logically sound, you are a fan of the original after all.

>>712516805
>>Well if you were a true fan of the original you wouldn't need it to have updated graphics
You can like more than one thing. And graphics aren't the only defining quality. If everything else is equal, preferring the one with higher fidelity graphics is fine since the core gameplay would be the same.

>>712516805
>that is logically sound
it's not, since it implies you are not ALLOWED to like the new thing

>>712516885
>graphics aren't the only defining quality. If everything else is equal, preferring the one with higher fidelity graphics is fine since the core gameplay would be the same.
oh because graphics are only an upgrade? higher fidelity always means the same artstyle and general aesthetic just better? there is no examples of games having worse visuals despite having better graphics after being remade? no examples of games having changed gameplay in remakes?
The example that immediately comes to mind for me is the demon's souls demake which just graphical changes completely destroyed the aesthetic and tone of the game.

Yeah, you can like more than one thing, but saying someone isn't a fan of the original for not being able to play the original and wanting a remake so they can play it is a logically sound statement.

>>712516216
>defending
I'm not defending anything. You said reddit can't create anything. One of its writers wrote Expedition 33. So you're wrong, dummy.
>>712516319
>I love talking on things I know nothing about and shoving dildos up my ass
cool beans

>>712516079
unfortunately, you don't need a psyop or the improbability of conspiracy for this to happen. it has simply been happening due to shifts in culture and how generations interface with the internet. while the older generations that can't keep up with technology fade, the younger generations start being manipulated by algorithms that create confirmation bias in their worldviews. anti-intellectualism has been on a rise worldwide, and is part of the reason why humanity as a whole has been becoming ever more divided politically, accelerating towards extremism. the result is clowns like OP, that come here and do threads with openers like these. to be fair it could be worse, this is just a cute little elitism sentiment being shared about a game, but when it devolves into something more twisted like ideologies that then try to change society, that's when it gets more scary.

>>712516885
>If everything else is equal, preferring the one with higher fidelity graphics is fine since the core gameplay would be the same.
can you name any remakes where this happened?
I legitimately can't think of any
and that's without opening the can of worms that is "remasters" which can be anything from an HD up-res to an actual remake being called a remaster
but even then a lot of the time those "HD" versions end up altering face textures due to the demand for "better graphics", and even if they aren't an objective downgrade, they're a needless stylistic change

>>712517009
>oh because graphics are only an upgrade?
I did not say that. Strawman argument.
I said that liking higher fidelity graphics is valid.
>higher fidelity always means the same artstyle and general aesthetic just better?
I did not say that. Strawman argument.

>there is no examples of games having worse visuals despite having better graphics after being remade?
I did not say that. Strawman argument.

>no examples of games having changed gameplay in remakes?
The premise was about graphics only which I reinforced. Goalposts moved.

>isn't a fan of the original for not being able to play the original
>for not being able to play
That's a new premise. You can like and play both.

You're very bad at this logic stuff.

>>712517061
nobody cares avatar tranny, you're in no position to criticize the mentality of anyone else

>>712517140
pointing out a logical fallacy is a fallacy in it self.
knowing the fallacy means you know what argument you should use to dismantle it, pointing it out doesn't make it incorrect.
So either counter the argument or shut the fuck up.

You are moving the goal posts as well :)

>>712516625
Why not try to have a conversation and understanding with someone? I know on an anonymous imageboard that's near impossible and no body takes anything seriously I just wish people didn't default into shitposting for ebin memes. I don't need a reddit like board where opinions you don't like are drowned out thats's fine. It's when shit gets personal and the arguement gets thrown out of the window. I still love /v/ and 4chan for still being "lawless" but at times people think being a retard is cool. I'm drunk and shouldn't even be posting desu
>>712516773
Well I wish I had a solution. There are legitimate good posts on /v/ sometimes you just have to dig through 95% of garbage to find them. It's the nature of the beast sadly

no true scotsman IS a fallacy you fucking spastic. i hate this fucking thing where people take logical fallacies that are clearly defined exactly where the failure in logic is and then say "well actually in this wholly different context where different albeit superficially similar logic is used the argument is actually valid!"

you FFFFUCKING RETARD.

the logical fallacy is "all true fans like RE4 because anyone who doesn't like RE4 isn't a true fan". it's transparently circular. but the conclusion can still be valid even if the argument isn't in cases like for example "all real men have a penis because anyone who doesn't have a penis isn't a man." the criteria for being a man is not simply possession of a penis and yet (generally speaking, ignoring nuance etc. etc.) all men have penises - valid conclusion, invalid argument.

or you can have valid conclusions and arguments and thus the statement not be fallacious for example "all the people who came to my birthday party came to my birthday party." - valid argument, valid conclusion.

no true scotsman describes a SPECIFIC, FALLACIOUS form of argument. all no true scotsman arguments are fallacious because all REAL no true scotsman arguments contain fallacies.

see what i did there?

>>712517061
You don't need one, but in the case of young male surge to the right there was at least one psyop involved.
The culture of the late 2000s and 2010s completely ignored the interests and needs of young men, making idpol shit over fags and women and brown people the main priority.
It was a huge blind spot for most western 1st world countries.
The only thing the far right needed to do was to promise them sweet lies of le based trad wife shit and manosphere cringe like Andrew Tate.
It was an easy psyop that was presented to them on a silver platter but it still wasn't organic. It was just one political movement gobblign up vulnerable, aimless young males because the others thought they don't need them.
>>712517210
>pointing out a logical fallacy is a fallacy in it self.
No. It's just not an argument but it is not a logical fallacy.
If you're referring to the "fallacy fallacy" then you're still incorrect since I am not making a case myself, just pointing out flaws in your arguments.
>You are moving the goal posts as well
where?
My first post directed at you was
>>712516885
where the goalposts were only about updated graphics. The goalposts were set by you and I adhered to them

>>712510890 (OP)
Resident Evil is fun.
Which ones? Yes. All of them.
Stop being such a miserable cunt.
And before someone >you will be happy's me, I don't give a fuck. Just don't buy the damn games. Stop being a consoomer and form your own opinions.

>>712517348
>Why not try to have a conversation and understanding with someone?
Because if it's like a 30 year old talking to an 18 year old, the "understanding" only goes one way, and it's the old fuck "understanding" that the zoomer is a retard because the old fuck was a retard once, too, and there's no way around being retarded at that age, so there's no point in a fucking algonquin roundtable to discuss the merits of the remakes of every PS2 game that ever sold more than 50 copies in the 2000s

>>712517348
>Well I wish I had a solution
The solution is to just lurk less. The only time I'm on here is when I'm currently working from home and have some down time like right now. I went from unironically lurking 24/7 in 2009 to now mabye lurking an hour or two per week but I also went a year or two without visiting at all and month long breaks aren't uncommon.

>>712517438
No, its a logical fallacy.
Take a read of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy

The problem with thinking pointing out fallacies is an argument is that you not actually proving or asserting anything, you can misidentify a fallacy, as you have multiple times.
See how you say
>where
when I point out you moving the goal posts? if you can simply assert it with no proof or argument, then it can simply be dismissed with no proof or argument
>its a strawman
no it isn't, I don't need to prove more as you have proved nothing.
You need to actually dismantle the argument using the knowledge of a fallacy for where to target the problems in logic to destroy it.

I have just baited you into understanding why pointing out fallacies is a fallacy, you will either learn this or remain ignorant because you are upset.

>>712513101
lose weight

>>712517112
>and that's without opening the can of worms that is "remasters" which can be anything from an HD up-res to an actual remake being called a remaster
I don't know nor care enough about the semantics here.
Is pic related a remake or remaster?
Either way, the gameplay is the same and it looks prettier so from its release onward I recommend this version to people who wanna play DQIII for the first time.

>>712517786
I think anyone who'd want to play an older dragon quest would seek out the original specifically because it's a more niche series outside of japan
the only one I've played is VII, and it was within the past 5 years and it was a PS2 copy

>>712517531
The cycle continues I guess. I take things too seriously admittedly. Just gotta enjoy things for what they are
>>712517593
You're right. Sadly I don't have much else to do than browse this shithole. I just want my time to be here at least somehwat decent.

>>712517647
>The problem with thinking pointing out fallacies is an argument
Please read my post.
What did I say here?
>>712517438
>you're referring to the "fallacy fallacy" then you're still incorrect since I am not making a case myself, just pointing out flaws in your arguments.
>when I point out you moving the goal posts? if you can simply assert it with no proof or argument, then it can simply be dismissed with no proof or argument
The goal posts have been moved from
"remake with equal gameplay" to "yeah but what if the gameplay is different"
>>712517647
>no it isn't
It is because you're implying I said things that I did not.
I made the premise clear and then you brought up
>oh because graphics are only an upgrade?
>higher fidelity always means the same artstyle and general aesthetic just better?>there is no examples of games having worse visuals despite having better graphics after being remade?
Why are you asking these questions as if I said or implied these things?

The initial premise is HERE:
>>712516805
>UPDATED GRAPHICS
These are the goalposts. You moved them.

>>712517889
I meant 8, not 7

>>712517889
>I think anyone who'd want to play an older dragon quest would seek out the original specifically because it's a more niche series outside of japan
Why?
When I look to emulate older games I missed I always have a look at the remakes/new versions.
Chrono Trigger for example is best played on the DS version since it just has the orignial game + extra content at the end. With DQIII it's similar. It's just the orignial game plus extra.

>>712517786
There are drastic changes to the gameplay in III HD-2D.

>>712518153
>Chrono Trigger for example is best played on the DS version
LOL

>>712518169
>drastic changes
such as?

>>712518153
>Why?
because it's the original
unless it's something like FF Tactics where the original NA release was fucked up or whatever, there's no reason not to start with the original
this applies to movies, too
and if you were a person who got "into" Mass Effect for example with the second game and not the first, you're also a dumbass
it's all very simple

>>712517937
>>712516706
>better graphics
as I quoted >>712516805
not an argument, you made the claim, back it up or you are incorrect, since you like fallacies so much and refuse to learn, you are back peddling right now, prove you are not or you are wrong. Your post right here in black and white says it, not your post? don't care its in the chain and apart of the argument, defend it or shut up.


>>712517438
this is your post not mine, you said this, not me, you are quoting me in this post and arguing against me
YOU said that about the gameplay being different, I never mentioned gameplay, YOU did.
this is a strawman, again, since you love logical fallacies so much, prove it isn't or again, shut the fuck up.


>updated graphics
the argument was that you are not a fan of the original if you need updated graphics to play it, which is the case, if you do not like the original visuals of the game and it has prevented you from playing it, you do not like the original game.
updated graphics does not mean better and its completely reasonable to dislike changes to the visuals of something, as I pointed out >>712517009
The visuals ARE gameplay, are you saying there are no games where looking at an enemies tells is core to the gameplay? oh, like the one I pointed out in my post? or are you trying to claim the visuals of a product are irrelevant to setting the tone and feel of a game which influences the gameplay?

Now instead of writing things and saying it was me to who said it, how about you actually formulate an argument? because all you have done so far is repeat the same statement when its already demonstrably wrong.
You like fallacies a lot, tools of formal debate, for someone who has no clue what formal debate entails and would have been told to leave if you tried to argue like you are now.

>>712510890 (OP)
You're fucking retarded, holy shit. Don't say shit like that out loud.

>>712518284
Leveling is different.
Stats as a whole have been bloated.
Full recovery upon leveling.
New abilities added.
That's just scratching the surface. Anyone that thinks they're identical has no idea what they're talking about.

>>712515123
>they're incapable of creative thought

The sad thing is that maybe 10% of this board will see the irony here. You don't contribute jack shit, you fucking moron.

>>712518720
jesus christ, fag, stop whining about being on 4chan every second you're on 4chan
>everyone here is a retard and nothing good has ever been typed out
then fucking kill yourself I guess, you sound like you're living in constant torment

my favorite resident evil game by far is resident evil 4 (2005) but i will say that the older games were more unique and interesting. Having zero games today with the fixed angle horror gameplay just is a detriment to the hobby, every year all games just become more standardized and resemble eachother more and more to the point that few games are really a must play.

the only modern resident evil game i really enjoyed was revelations 2 for the raid mode, and that was basicaly because it embraced just being action with no plot letting you pick what character you play just doing cool shit.

the modern games to me really feel like a separate franchise using the resident evil IP name.

>>712512331
re4 still made a strong attempt at trying to keep some of the ambience from the earlier games, in terms of aesthetic, lighting, color palette. i give it points for that. i do wish that the franchise would go back to just standard zombies though. i would say a lot of resident evil 4 areas have the same general atmosphere of residentevil 1 from a design standpoint regardless of the genre changing so much. res5 and after all are kind of retarded to me. if re5 had not jumped the shark so much and just had been like re 4 i think the franchise would have been in a better place.

>>712519802
>standard zombies
I hated RE7 and RE8 for not having zombies and I fear that RE9 will the same shit with pseudo supernatural bullshit. I hate it.

>>712511823
Yeah I liked him the most in 4.

>>712513101
Anon the majority of fallacies are informal, hell the fact that you yourself already disqualified informality as grounds to dismiss a fallacy by giving multiple examples is just evidence that you cannot come to a logically consistent conclusion even when you are aware of the circumstances.

TL;DR: You're a god damn joke trying very hard to justify things with concepts you do not understand.

>>712515198
You got a reddit account. Your Ilk was never welcome here.

>>712515123
First off, that's not Reddit spacing, retard. Second off, "no true scotsman" is a very popular accusation here on /v/, though less so these days. Thirdly, your bullshit spiel is a literal example of the fallacy you dumb spastic fuck.

>>712520675
>EVERYONE I DON'T LIKE IS A WITCH! KILL THE WITCHES! KILL KILL KILL! HEE HEE HA HA HEE HEE HA HA!

The series only has three bad games and they're 0, CV, and 6. Everything else is at the worst decent.

>>712510890 (OP)
if you dont like outbreak you arent a real fan PERIOD

>>712520928
For me 8 was pretty bad too.

>>712520928
0 was not bad, that just you going along with the crowd to fit in.

Demake is dogshit only loved by soitards and normalfags and those people are not welcomed on 4chan.

>>712520461
yeah i watched some of the gameplay and just wasnt interested in it- there are already other franchises that do that concept better if thats what i want to play. doesnt make any sense for that to be in a resident evil game which had already carved out a good niche for itself.

this is why i think they should just make something like resident evil revelations 2's raid mode, but as a stand alone game. that way you can play against the enemy types you want when you want too on a large variety of maps as the characters you want to play.

1 = 2 = 1 remake > 3 > CV > 2 remake > 4 > 4 remake > 5 > 0 > 3 remake >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 7 > 8

>>712513101
Formal vs informal fallacy refers to the structure of its logic. Under the assumption that all propositions that make up an argument are true, formal falacies are a structure of argument where the conclusion reached is always incorrect, while informal fallacies have a conclusion that can be either correct or incorrect regardless of the propositions. Valid logical arguments are always proven by their propositions.

>>712520928
Imagine being filtered by Code Veronica and 0. The actually bad games in the series are 6, 7, and 8. Every other mainline game is serviceable.

>>712520928
5 was arguably already retarded

>>712511245
knowing that RE4 is a great game (it is) doesn't mean you also think RE only got good after implementing TPS gameplay.

what you said has nothing to do with OPs post

>>712515123
>reddit spacing
see pic related, newfag

I didn’t like 7 so I didn’t get 8, but with the release of 9 I decided to watch a play through of 8 to see if it it’s any good and holy fuck does it look bad. It’s worse than 7 somehow. It’s cinematic on rails garbage like nu-gow. Things are not looking good for 9.

Reminder if you hate 5 but like 4 you are what we call clinically retarded

>>712510890 (OP)
>"No True Scotsman" isn't a fallacy, it's a genuine criticism of people who have an opinion of something while lacking any real history with the subject and thus can't appreciate it properly.
Bloodborne and Dark Souls 3 sucked compared to 1 and all the new fans can suck a cock
>>712513101
leaning completely on the hard logic side of philosophy doesn't work nigger, nobody gives a fuck about avoiding fallacies anymore

Give me one reason 4 couldn’t have been its own IP? Same with the dogshit 7 and 8 sequels?

>>712521110
8's fine. Not great but fine.
>>712521145
0 starts off awesome on the train and then becomes so shit so fast it leaves my head spinning. The only reason to like it is because you wanna fuck Rebecca.
>>712521410
Code Veronica is almost as bad as 0. I can accept not liking 8 but hating 7 just outs you as a retard
>>712521491
5 is retarded but its a pretty fun co-op game

>>712521552
>It’s cinematic on rails garbage like nu-gow
for like 20 minutes sure

>>712521692
7 was a snorefest. Code Veronica was actually fun.

>>712521670
Because you're a stupid faggot who didn't realize the series had become actionized by RE2. You should like 7 because its one of the few real horror games RE has produced.

>>712521746
You mean for the entire game except the last 20 minutes.

>>712510890 (OP)
When people say “Devil May Cry (1, 2001) is a ‘great game but a bad DMC game’” I want to go on a murderous rampage.

>>712521751
Funny, I'd say its the complete opposite.

>>712521790
wearyfrog.jpg

>>712512545
>appeal to authority

>>712521491
People only say this if they skipped CV, which they shouldn't have because it's the actual RE3.

>>712521670
videogame developers aren't handwringing nerds. they're more worldly and well adjusted and go with the flow of their spontaneous creative instincts. in this case not worrying if a new entry in a series with revamped gameplay will hurt its purity and necessitate a new categorization.
>oh I know our new action hero will be leon POW POW (laughs)

>>712521692
>8
I didnt like the enemies and especially the highest difficulty. A difficulty which is balanced with shop weapons in mind and also gets triviallizied by said weapons is an oxymoron.
>0
Spot on. And the item management is the cherry on top.
>CV
More like Code Backtracking

>>712514602
not what he is saying.

the implication is that it's people hopping onto a series at a later point and they never go back to play the older ones and to get the full context.

I am a massive RE fan and I started with RE4 in 2005 on gamecube.
right after I got REmake and loved that even more, then got the GC ports of 2&3 and loved them too.

many people who are 18-25 years old don't care to go back and understand the history of a series or even the medium in general, despite claiming it's their hobby.
and that is very annoying because you can't talk to these people because they literally don't get it.

imagine talking to a self professed cinephile, but they haven't seen anything older than Jurassic Park or whatever and don't care to either.
you'd rightfully laugh them off.
but most people into vidya now are like this and it is a detriment to our hobby, because their ignorance has real life consequences, because marketers and suitniggers cater to them.

I had to listen to a 24 year old recently talk about how he never heard of Quake and that it therefore couldn't have been important

>>712510890 (OP)
so literally nobody playing WW1 shooters would be able to criticise them because they never actually experienced WW1?

fuck off retard

>>712522056
no, but unironically people who have played every call of duty game and not just every game since Modern Warfare 2 or whatever are the "better" COD fans because they'd have a wider breadth of context for what the series was and turned into

True Scotsman here, I like RE period.

>>712521751
>>712521670
>>712521552
RE7 is the closest we have been to a classic resi experience since CV

the only faults it has is the inane, unskippable cutscenes and the post-house part dragging on for too long with bad pacing

it was also the last time we got a proper horror game out of the series

>>712522056
what a retarded assumption, holy shit, you read an entire post and didn't understand anything what the OP said

>>712522217
>RE7 is the closest we have been to a classic resi experience since CV
How so? The enemy design completely throws it off. Its closer to Silent Hill than to RE.

>>712522217
you need to elaborate on why re2 remake doesn't count.

>>712521982
The enemies sucking is the biggest flaw with 7 and 8, on that I agree. I still think the castle and the factory are well designed areas that are fun to move through, and while the dollhouse is a fat nothing on replay the first time through it is fantastic.
8 had its moments. I'm glad the 7 director is heading up 9 though.

>>712522321
you can disagree with re7 actually living up to the classic games, perhaps rightfully so, but if it isn't immediately obvious to you why someone would float that conclusion then OP's post probably applies to you.

>>712522016
>many people who are 18-25 years old don't care to go back and understand the history of a series or even the medium in general, despite claiming it's their hobby.
To be fair that's a very different situation you described compared to yourself. You didn't really have to "go back", you got a Gamecube game and then...bought some more Gamecube games. You played what you had relatively easy access to. You didn't go get a PS1 and play RE1, nor did you get a Dreamcast for Code Veronica.
Look at what's available now. If you got into Resident Evil with 7, playing on PC, you only get the remakes. Now you can say that zoomers are too stupid to emulate but thats a whole other thing.

>>712522324
Unpopular opinion but I think RE4R also makes RE4 into a horror game, at least more than the original was.

>>712510890 (OP)
>No true Scotsman
Excuse me

>>712522595
that might be an arguable excuse for zoomers being ignorant retards, but they're still ignorant retards even if it's not their "fault"
if an 18 year old today has less perspective and knowledge of video game than I did when I was 12 because I could go to blockbuster and rent almost everything I could ever want to play, then that does literally make me better and that sucks for them but I'm not going to refrain from trying to convince them to kill themselves during an argument about video game remakes

>>712522435
A good chunk of the classic games were also about the enemies. Undeads and mutants so to speak, and not about some "supernatural" bullshit. I didnt say RE7 is bad, I did say that RE isnt nowhere near to the classics. RE3make is closer than RE7 or 8.

>>712521960
whats your argument here? resident evil 5 is just a subpar game. CV is also a spinoff entry so i dont care as much if it did something weird or stupid because its the nature of a spin off title. those are for experimentation or deviating from the formula.

>>712522595
>playing on PC, you only get the remakes
gog literally has the first 3 original games, Code Veronica is the only classic one you can't get on pc

>>712510890 (OP)
3 remake sucked

>>712522879
>CV is also a spinoff entry so i dont care as much if it did something weird or stupid because its the nature of a spin off title. those are for experimentation or deviating from the formula.
It's not. It's Resident Evil 3, it was made under that pretense the entire time and then they weren't super satisfied about the final result and the dreamcast exclusivity and turned Nemesis into RE3, which was originally supposed to just be an expansion for 2, which then got beefed up.
That's why there's actual story happening CV whereas Nemesis is a side quest where Jill runs around the city we've already kind of seen.

>>712522750
>if an 18 year old today has less perspective and knowledge of video game than I did when I was 12 because I could go to blockbuster and rent almost everything I could ever want to play
You might actually be onto something here. A kid is always gonna pick the path of least resistance because they have no money. So they can't have a variety of formative gaming experiences because their option to do so (renting games) no longer exists. Instead they must rely on F2P games.
Anon I know they're annoying as fuck but society may have failed them so utterly they can't be held accountable.

>>712522321
because of the level design and the type of challenges the game gives you and the tone.

the enemy design is pretty resi still, and mechanically/functionally they might as well be zombies it only makes a narrative difference

>>712522324
RE7 was before REmake 2. nowhere in my post do I imply anything about it at all.

>>712523000
what is the point that youre making here though? if they changed it to a non numbered entry it doesnt matter or fit into the argument.

My argument is that a spin off game being weird or fucked up doesnt matter because if you dont like it you can just ignore it and its like it never happened. main numbered entries you cant really do this with and they should not go full retard with main numbered entries. 5 was a full retard game. nothing you sad discredits that.

people like resident evil 5 because it was a fun game to fuck around with with your friend in coop. there was a lot of action and retarded bullshit in it. i can make the argument that to some people it could be a fun throw away game no one takes seriously. but as a main line resident evil game it was retarded. i cant think of any other word to use than that because it wasnt just full of bad or dumb choices but ones so idiotic i have no idea what they were thinking.

>>712522595
i see your point but I also did the same for many other series and games.

I went back and played the classic mega man games via emulator on my shitty PC and my PSP in the late 00s.
did the same with many NES/SNES/Genesis/PS1 games too

there is no excuse to not go back nowadays if there is even an iota of interest in old games. literally every phone can emulate now and if someone doesnt have a PC, they play on console which means having bluetooth read controllers that you can connect to the phone too

>>712522324
>>712523017
sorry I misremembered.
I didn't include REmake2 because it felt like cheating to include it because it is a remake of a classic Resi game

>>712523017
>mechanically/functionally they might as well be zombies it
But theyre not zombies. Theyre somekind of "demons" which spawn from black stuff sticking on the wall.
Zombies are vastly different.

>>712523257
>if you dont like it you can just ignore it and its like it never happened
And then call RE5 "retarded" because you pretend the game that sets everything in it up never happened, which was my point that you reacted with incredulity toward

>>712523003
I think the main turning point is when younger people are so far removed that they don't have any cultural reference to older games before the 7th gen stagnation set in. 90s games were largely before my time but I was close enough to them residually with older brothers and hand me down media to find them cool and want to seek them out when I was 15. to zoomers it might come off as pre crash atari shit, something you have zero connection to.

>>712523278
functionally, they are.
we are talking about game design here. and in terms of what the game IS, RE7 is very close to a classic RE game.

also they are not demons, they are semi sentient mold creatures.
that is perfectly in line with RE's bio horror or body horror and sci fi tone.

fungi are creepy as fuck

>>712523414
nta but today it is easier than ever to go back to play old games.

any console today offers a lot of cheap ports of old games, hell the switch has tons of them in their online program.
and even having the weakest laptop means you can emulate everything up to at least the 6th gen. also smartphones exist that can emulate all that.

>>712523262
To be fair I do see a lot of zoomers (or would they be Gen Alpha at this point) playing old pokemon games or whatever on their phones. They probably don't understand what emulation even is but at least they're having fun with GBA games.

>>712523442
>functionally, they are.
How so? The enemy variety, and setting reminds me more of Silent Hill than RE. Not to mention the supernatural aspect of the mold.

>>712523337
you still arent and havent made a coherent argument and are just schizo rambling. what game would i have played that would have made resident evil 5 not seem completely retarded? half of the issues of resident evil 5 are purely in terms of art direction/lack of ambience/ gameplay design. people complained about resident evil 4 but resident evil 5 made 4 seem conservative by comparison.

>>712523414
>>712523586
I almost wonder if its choice paralysis. So many fucking games exist and can be played that it feels overwhelming. Basically you're born with a backlog that you can never finish.

>>712523654
What specifically are your problems with RE5?

>>712523586
>any console today offers a lot of cheap ports of old games, hell the switch has tons of them in their online program.
ntoddler, the switch ones aren't cheap
>and even having the weakest laptop means you can emulate everything up to at least the 6th gen. also smartphones exist that can emulate all that.
zoomers don't know how to torrent or emulate or download anything
when I was a teenager in the late 00s, everyone jailbroke their iphones to do cool shit with them
I don't think zoomers would even know what that term means

>>712523636
the way they move, what they do and how you handle and fight them in terms of gameplay, is functionally basically the same as if they were zombies.
i have to repeat myself, I am talking about game design, not narrative.

and as far as supernatural goes, I don't really agree with you on that in 7. for RE8 i might agree a little bit.
it is no more supernatural or "unrealistic" than a Tyrant, or a Licker to me.

but again, in RE8 I do think they push the mold stuff dangerously close to paranormal levels, which I agree I don't like. the trashy science horror is approach is what I love about RE, among other things

>>712523595
true, pokemon and romhacks are very popular. it helps these can be played well on a touch screen

>>712523737
yeah that is kinda true, but there is a somewhat clear list of like 30 must play games that are just in the collective consciousness now. if they cared they could put in the minimal effort of typing "top 20 classic games" into youtube, tiktok or whatever they use.

>>712523816
>the switch ones aren't cheap
isnt it like 20 bucks for a year?

>>712523746
basically every criticism that people had of resident evil 4 being too different compared to the previous games was exponentially magnified in resident evil 5.thats my base core criticism of the game.

like i said in an earlier post as much as i enjoy resident evil 4, much of that is because they still kept half a foot in to preserving a semblance of the older resident evil atmosphere. a lot of that is in the tiny things like the lighting in certain rooms and just the general art direction of the game. resident evil 4 still had a psuedo old world feeling to it that made it mesh somewhat with the ambience of the spencer mansion.

the mandatory co op alone is an issue that really had no point being in a mainline entry. outbreak series got away with it being a spinoff entry and that was only online no mandatory NPC to help you in combat.

none of the areas in resident evil 5 are as interesting to look at as anything in resident evil 4. fighting zombies in africa out in slums and villages just is a stupid idea my overwhelming lasting impression of re5 is basically the slums in the movie district 9. the enemies in resident evil 5 are probably some of the least interesting in the entire franchise.

wesker becoming neo was retarded but if everything else had been fine even this wouldnt be as big of a problem but its just insult to injury.

the item and inventory system sucks they had a perfect system in re4 people still talk about today there was no need to reinvent it for re4 and completely change it for re5.

why is chris roided out so hard? leon at least had a normal physique chris looks like a dragonball z character.

a call of duty sequence like you are in Afghanistan but its "zombies" in a fleet of jeeps chasing you

i only played the first half of the game because it was so bad i got bored and turned it off. Half of the appeal of the resident evil games WAS the ambience and atmosphere.

>>712524240
>RE5 reminded me of a movie that came out 5 years later
Oh.
>Wesker turning into Neo
That happened in Code Veronica.
>I didn't finish the game
retard

>>712522392
the castle is not well designed. it's a linear walking sim that gives you the illusion that you can explore the castle.

>>712523941
>the way they move
That applies to many enemy types. That doesnt make them to some cannibalistic undead human, who is the inhabitant of the location. Zombies are also unpredictable by their behaviours like roaming the area or becoming one from a corpse, while mold enemies are just waiting for you to pass by so they can pop out of their eggs.
The mold in RE7 is already some paranormal shit. The mold "afterlife" or you being dead are the best examples.

pretending 7 is good just because 4, 5, and 6 weren't survival horror is retarded.

>>712524556
you are again talking mostly about narrative, not game mechanics

>>712510890 (OP)
Ive been playing Resident Evil all my life, ever since the very first one.
Remake 2 and Remake 4 are the best games in the franchise.

Cry about it

>>712520607
Kek, great post

>>712524645
Yeah but RE is all about the narrative. Mechanically RE2 and PE2 are nearly the same games. Mechanically SH is also very similiar.

>>712524736
nobody cries about retarded people, we just wish they were all dead
well maybe your parents cry about you being so retarded

>>712524830
Keep crying

>>712525060
about what

>>712524784
i dont know why you even started talking to me when I made it clear from the first post I am talking about videoGAMES

SH is also very different due to level design alone. it's also why it was always the weaker series of the two.

>>712524736
REmake2 I can understand but RE4 is mechanically inferior and the cutscenes lack the style and ridiculousness that was so fun in the original. same goes for the general tone.
wanting to pretend all serious about something as bonkers and silly as RE4's story, plot and general moments is super retarded

>>712524395
the district 9 comparison was just me painting a visual for you it obviously wasnt what i compared it too on launch. this is more dishonest arguing. the point im making is that resident evil 5 was an ugly game, and it didnt make me want to discover what was next or explore once i had played half of the game. the environments were both too repetitive while simultaneously being boring to be in thematically compared to stuff in the previous games.

it wasnt at the same comical level in code veronica more dishonest arguing--cod veronica in general was a better game its like i said before one weird thing by itself isnt the problem its the entire concept of the hair that breaks the camels back

I was with my friends watching them play through the campaign on coop on release i have seen the other half of the game. they had the same impression i did that it was "fun" as a shooter game but terrible as a resident evil game and a WEIRD follow up to resident evil 4 which was tonally different in every way imaginable.

>>712525303
you didn't need to compare the game to a movie, unlike you I have actually beaten RE5 multiple times
in code veronica wesker has glowing red eyes, moves with super speed, and effortlessly beats the shit out of chris, it's all set up there
you didn't even play the fucking game, you don't get to have an opinion

>>712515994
I think the strawman fallacy ranks even higher, but it's a really a toss-up. Both can be seen everywhere.

>>712525468
you might actually be retarded im not comparing the game in its entirety to a movie. im comparing the visuals of re5s most recognizable locations to an other well known media set in the same geographical location with similar visuals. what does it matter? im not saying that resident evil PLAYS like district 9. im saying that in terms of videogame design it isnt an environment most people want to look at or play in. if i hadnt brought up the movie district 9 my argument would be the exact same. did you have some kind of major head injury? whats your deal? district 9 works as a film because it doesnt force you to manually explore copy pasted aluminum desert slum buildings for hour in the desert. the worst segments of resident evil 4s levels are better than the best levels of re5 just from an aesthetic perspective. the enemies are extremely boring as well. they phoned it all in. its low effort slop. the same effort that went into the development of re4 did NOT go into re5 and its blatantly obvious.

weskers portrayal in CV is not to the same degree as it is in re5. they double downed on it complete with the carbon fiber trenchcoat. wesker in cv does not seem to have the same level of abilities as re5 wesker. they took something that was already questionable and just double downed and made it twice as outrageous. which is basically the entire strategy of re5 it feels like.

but forget wesker and forget my observation of re5 looking like district 9. my core argument is still the same. re5 has boring ugly environments with bland and boring or stupid ad obnoxious enemy designs. this by itself would have been bad without them saying oh lets just entirely give up on the mood of the prior games and take the action of re4 and double that with a allied NPC who constantly talks and helps you. its just not resident evil anymore.

>>712517889
>I think anyone who'd want to play an older dragon quest would seek out the original specifically because it's a more niche series outside of japan
No, it's so niche that trying to buy older games is an insane endeavor. Maybe it's a bit better in NA cause at least they got DQ1-7 before the remakes, but here in Europe the print runs were so low or non-existent that you're better off just buying remakes. Or you emulate them.

>>712523003
Nah that's bullshit
I was born in the early 90s and had a ps1 and n64 as a kid, my older brother was significantly older and would pirate ps1 games for me (and sell them to other people for $5) and I had access to hundreds of ps1 games to play at any time.
Still didn't play a fuck ton of them as I was a kid and just didn't really interact with the wider gaming landscape and just played what sounded cool.

But as a teenager, when I had a ps3 and a PC at like 15-16, I still went back and played a fuckton of ps1 games that I had never tried out but heard of, I played a bunch of snes games as well despite it being before my time. Used to fuck around on mame with a friend of mine and we would play random cool seeming multiplayer arcade games as well.
I have put hundreds of hours into games that were released well over a decade before I was born.

sure, I had less history to work through than people who are that age right now due to the impact games before that period had on modern games, but that isn't an excuse, no one is expecting you to have played literally every game. I sure as hell haven't
I have played like 2 RE games, both of them were older ones, I didn't like them, I don't think of myself as a resident evil fan, I have friends who have played all of them and love them, have heard countless bullshit about them I don't really care to hear from them gushing about them, you don't need to pretend.
But none of that is an excuse for not interacting with something and then saying you like it.

>>712526206
>what is emulation
why are you acting like such a nigger?

>>712512331
Companies usually like money. I started with re 1, but things change and evolve. I wouldn't want to play the same game every release.

>>712528681
not that anon. its ironic you use the term evolution because i can make an analogy about the current state of videogames using evolution as a vehicle. Convergent evolution. 20 years back major videogame franchises felt completely different too eachother. and for the last decade, arguably longer than that, every time a new iteration of a videogame comes out, it feels like its more and more similar to whatever other games are out. even being inspired by completely separate genres. just food for thought.

>>712526206
retard, it takes 30 seconds to download a ps1 emulator and a bunch of roms
I'm sure you could do it on a fucking phone

>>712510890 (OP)
>"No True Scotsman" isn't a fallacy
lol. lmao even.

I liked it

>>712528546
>>712529581
>Or you emulate them
Can't even read the post. But besides that, the later versions of DQV for example have various QoL improvements. DQIII-HD also seems to have some neat changes.

>code veronica is bad because it has too much backtracking
imagine being so much of brainlet that you have this take. you have to be a genuine retard to not understand that backtracking in a survival horror game is a good thing. it is the reason you have to think about whether you want to waste ammo clearing a room or risk wasting health packs while you try to run past enemies. it makes you try and remember what state you left a room in so that you can map the safest and most efficient path to your next objective. it literally adds to the gameplay. a survival horror game without back tracking is a bad survival horror game. without back tracking there is literally no reason not to just shoot enemies once to stun them and then run past them every single time. the kind of retard who gets upset at backtracking is the kind of retard who gets upset at having limited inventory space, or having the game not mark item/puzzle locations. genuinely i can not tell you how mad i got when i found out remake 2 does this instead of just letting me mentally mark item locations.

>>712510890 (OP)
resident evil 2 remake is better than it's original. I have played an enjoyed both

>>712531169
it butchered the characters and the writing. this is an objective fact. also no matter how good the graphics are, you cannot match the soul and level of detail that comes with pre-rendered backgrounds. that is also a fact. also the game cut a lot of content, this is also a fact. fixed camera angles are also a novelty at this point, where as third person camera angles have been done to death. this is also a fact. the game also does not have different music play depending on the room you're in like the original. in fact it generally has no music play most of the time, which is incredibly lazy and soulless. this is also a fact. no matter how many ways you slice it, the original tops the remake. you can still enjoy the remake, that's fine. i enjoyed it too. but in no way, shape, or form, is it a better game. getting filtered by fixed camera angles and tank controls is no a valid argument.

>>712531169
it isn't, it's missing content

>>712531460
>also no matter how good the graphics are
looks face is all fucked up like he did meth. people lampshade this as hes traumatized from the first game but i think its just the fucked they fucked up the 3d model and or the lighting system in the game is fucked up.

>>712517210
Invalidating someone purely because they committed a fallacy is a fallacy, not calling fallacy on the point made.

I enjoy the original style and the modern

>>712528920
Not wrong

>>712510890 (OP)
>f you're saying Resident Evil only "got good" when it adopted over-the-shoulder TPS gameplay but you've "loved the series" ever since then you're no real fan and need to shut the fuck up.
Correct.

>>>712511245
>Nah Resident Evil 4 (2005) is great actually.
Reading comprehension issue.

>Re4 remake sucks

For a board that hates cutscenes because le movie games are bad you guys sure hate the removal of "cheesy dialogue"

>>712533468
>you guys
why act like a tourist and think anyone will ever take your paragraph seriously