>things that made modern living possible are bad actually!???
>yes, Chocobo lives are more important than human ones, billions must die!
>if you disagree you're evil

no one cares, shilljeet retard

>literally sapping the source of every living biological thing on the planet is ... le good! :^)
Also the DEmake sucks ass, and whitewashes everything.

>>712529062
>I'd rather be crocodile food because nature is wholesome chungus!

>>712529253
>what is oxygen
>what is fresh water
>what are crops
>what is game
>the game

>>712529062
>Also the DEmake sucks ass, and whitewashes everything.
It so fucking bad. it's so unfaithful and sanitized, it ruins all the characters.
They're not even eco terrorists in 7R. they retconned it so shinra blew up the first reactor and shinra blew up the second reactor.
Avalanche literally does nothing.. they good boys who dindu nuffin.

>>712530308
>they retconned it so shinra blew up the first reactor and shinra blew up the second reactor.
That's the original vision, if you play the game it straight up tells you that the bomb wasn't big enough to cause that. This flew over people's heads so they had to make it obvious

>>712530487
No you fucking retard. that was 1 single line and it's jessie feeling guilty because she didn't know the bomb would do that much damage.
in 7R the "bomb" is a literal firework. it literally does nothing and shinra get the sweeper to blow up the place instead.
in the real FF7 we blow up the whole reactor.

>>712530487
No, it tells you exactly what Jessie said, the bomb shouldn't have done that so she must have messed something up. Yes, as the player goes along they should realize that Shinra likely is responsible in some way instead of it just being Avalanche incompetence, but it was always an open question. And that was good. It let the player actually question "How far is too far? Are we risking not being the good guys?" Remake just slaps that nuance away and goes, "Despite Barret acting like a bad ass who doesn't care, don't worry player, Avalanche are unquestionably good guys, don't ask if they might be going to far."

>>712530487
That's not the original vision at all when an ongoing question throughout the game is how many innocent lives Barret has destroyed in his fight because he's running away from his own guilt over what happened to Corel. Remake is not going to be able to handle his story arc well because we know he never actually hurt anyone in this version, compared to the original where Reeve humbles him and he has to accept reality. The destructive nature of running from your past is the main theme of FF7.

>>712530952
>>712530728
>>712530675
Holy fucking speed readers, replay the game

>>712530952
>ongoing question throughout the game is how many innocent lives Barret has destroyed in his fight
This was always retarded even in the OG.

>>712531004
>no argument
That's what I thought. Everyone who replied to you obviously displayed more insight to the game and its story than you pointing at a single line that got retconned into complete innocence for the party. Jessie being surprised at her bomb's power is not a cutscene showing the guard scorpion blowing the place up instead. Removing the bloodshed Barret has inflicted undermines his entire story arc, and even Jessie's whole 5 minutes of existence.

>>712531004
we did skitzo. You're conflating and inserting cringe remake lines into the original script.
your dumb up brain can't even remember things right.

in the Original Jessie is guilty because she really blew up all the reactor and did all that.
in 7R the bomb doesn't even dint the thing you fucking placed it on. No way jessie is that retarded that she builds a non-bomb that literally does 0 damage and then STILL thinks she used too much explosive agent. 7R is pure fucking trash.

>>712531145
You're just an idiot.

>>712531145
You're always retarded.

>>712528967 (OP)
I feel like there's an acceptable middle ground between creature comforts through industry and turning entire regions into a desert wasteland

So... I am playing FF7R for the first time and currently I am in the Wall Market... for some reason. Wasn't my job just to go back home?
I swear to god, the game does the biggest detour I've seen since NWN2 when the story told me to join the city guard to open a door.

>>712531319
On the way home you saw Tifa getting carted off to the local fat ugly bastard's house so you're going after her.

>>712529253
>you’re either wonderbread factory man covering every surface of the planet with thick smog and destroying all life on earth or a tree hugging suicidal hippy rejecting all technology and deliberately feeding himself to bears
I just feel like there might be some middle ground here

>>712531236
Not to mention that she uses a bomb to blow their way out of the tunnel and it works exactly as intended so it's not like she doesn't know how to fucking make one.

>>712531319
A lot of padding can make you lose the plot I suppose. Okay context, context

After you blew up the Airbuster and fell off the Reactor, you woke up in the Sector 5 Church. By pure happenstance, you bumped into Aerith, the girl that sold you a flower at the start of the game. Cloud wants to get back to Sector 7 and Avalanche, not only because those are technically his employers but also because the last time he saw them, they were escaping an exploding Reactor.

While hanging out with Aerith, who has really taken a shine to you, Cloud notices a carriage traveling to the Wall Market... and Tifa is on it... what the fuck? The Wall Market is functionally a Red Light District. Everything is for sale in the Wall Market, including women. And Tifa was looking sexy on her way in there. Well.... more sexy than usual. When you go into the Wall Market, you learn that Tifa has been targeted by Don Corneo, a pimp who regularly has women trafficked to him. So your job is to
1. Rescue Tifa. And
2. Find out why the hell she's there in the first place

>>712531447
>you’re either wonderbread factory man covering every surface of the planet with thick smog and destroying all life on earth
Considering what kinda fauna FF universe has I'd say that's the best thing mankind can strive for.

>>712531690
>Considering what kinda fauna FF universe
Hojo and Shinra are responsible for like 20% of that. Their Reactors are explicitly to blame for turning the fauna more aggressive and even mutating them. Assuming they aren't straight out discarded experiments that somehow got loose to menace the locals

>>712531821
But all the scariest monsters are on the north continent. Behemoths and ahrimans and malboros seem all natural.

>>712531821
Mutation is just a word for evolution

>>712531932
And the Northern Continent is largely uninhabited. Which is a bit different if you live in a mountain town and suddenly this thing will just show up just to fuck with you. Requiring Shinra to send their top tier warfighters to come kill it

>>712532058
Use of biological experimentation to completely change someone's physiology in a couple of weeks? Get the fuck off of /v/ Hojo. And stop using company money to fund your beastiality fetish.

>>712530487
>Jesse had one line where she said "woah that explosion was bigger than I thought it'd be!" so that means that IT WAS REALLY SHINNERS ALL ALONG!!!!!!
The funny part is literally not a single person on the planet Earth held this dumbfuck retarded opinion until the demake came out and the shit eating sycophants suddenly had to try to excuse the story changes that were being made.

>>712532236
That just tells you how fucked up the fauna is, see: >>712531932

>>712532276
I did, I always did

>>712532170
>It's ok when natural mako does it
Cetrafags actually believe that weapon won't atomize them from the face of the earth just because they can hear planet dms lmao

>>712532276
What makes it dumber is that they pretend this was the story all along as if this magical plot point couldn't be done until the Playstation 4 TM future technology made it possible. When Don Corneo reveals that Shinra intends to crush all of Sector 7, the camera POV cuts to Shinra Tower and Reeve discussing how fucking stupid this plan is. It's information that the player has but Cloud doesn't. So if Shinra blowing up their own city was always the plan, why didn't they cut away the same way? And why the fuck do we have to cope and pretend like this idea isn't fucking stupid just because we were waiting for a remake for so long?

>>712528967 (OP)
In FF7 Man was the true God, so of course the Japs had you kill him.

>>712529253
You are clearly not white.

>>712531393
>>712531643
I mean, sure, I get the idea that we are here for Tifa, but I still feel like the story is just faffing about at this point.

>>712532506
The Planet didn't actually use WEAPON though. It realized Jenova had been dealt with and kept WEAPON in their box. Why do you know what WEAPON is? The only people who knew were Gast, Ifalna, and Hojo. And Hojo destroyed those tapes. Get the fuck off of /v/ Hojo

>>712532591
Stock line made me kek.

>>712528967 (OP)
this is genuinely how remake continuity comes across because they didn't get that the original was an allegory for Tokyo Metro taking all the jobs and energy from rural japan and ruining the country, and as a result both Midgar and the rest of the world seem healthy and normal.

in the original, it was obvious both midgar and the rest of the world were absolutely fucked, and shinra had stolen, damaged, or consolidated all wealth and resources.

there's nothing to fight for in remake, because the planet is fine - it's just ENERGY BAD POLLUTION BAD CORPOS BAD.

>>712529062
I'll never get the hate this remake caused. Great games that prove we s consumers don't deserve nice things. Go play factoria for another thousand hours.

>>712533028
>POLLUTION BAD
Are we now at the piont where Magatards dispute this, lol.

>>712532734
Whiter than you Pablo, history of Europe is about eradicating nature and shaping the continent into a environment where humanity can thrive. Romans eradicated malaria by draining swamps you know, nature has always been out to kill us

>>712532746
Well that's why I called out the padding. So in OG this entire section is very brief. You can finish the whole thing in like 30 to 40 minutes. Without spoiling, you'll discover that Tifa was there voluntarily because she and Barret got a whiff of critical information that will lead to one of the most memorable scenes in the game.

But that's the problem with Remake. Remake takes place 100% in Midgar. In OG, the entirety of Midgar can be cleared in 4 or 5 hours before you travel the world proper. And you can't sell a modern game that only lasts 5 hours. Which means that Remake took a 5 hour segment of game, and stretched it out to 40. Which you've begun to notice as one of Remakes biggest criticisms: the absolutely absurd amount of padding.

>>712533086
I love Rebirth as a game, but the story changes are all objective downgrades.

>>712533219
in the OG game the pollution was tangibly bad. the literal ground around midgar was black, we see the absolute shit conditions of the people on the ground-levels of midgar, the world was barren and full of monsters, and the few cities left were either totally dependent on shinra or rural backwaters barely surviving.
now it's like "oh the mako has contaminated this one lake somewhere but everywhere else is fine" and the underground of midgar is basically a happy little shanty town full of cats and wall market isn't a depraved shithole it's more of a tourist-y redlight district. midgar went from cyberpunk hellscape to "literally Bangkok"

if we apply that to the real world, it's like avalanche is those people complaining about oil rigs because of an occasional spill, or the fags that want to ban nuclear energy because of literally two incidents and ignore all the foul shit China and India get up to.

>>712533219
yes, whining that pollution is bad without any actionable advice for others besides "pay more taxes and we promise we'll fix it" tends to get a little tiresome

>>712528967 (OP)

The energy source is literally LIFE ITSELF. So yeah.

>>712533086
how about a far better revival of an old game? i put 100 hrs into oblivion since the remaster released. because all the stupid changes were frontloaded in the character creation menu

>>712533701
Why the fuck did they make the slums so BRIGHT?

>>712533429
>Which you've begun to notice as one of Remakes biggest criticisms: the absolutely absurd amount of padding.
Yeah, I've already noticed it. The plot just moves at the snail's pace. Which only begs the question whose bright idea was that to release the remake in 3 parts that are padded to all hell, instead of 1 part that's concise and to the point. It legit reminds me of the Hobbit movies.

>>712533517
Rebirth is a very frustrating game to me to judge. Because it's clear to see that people who loved FF7 at least put their hands on it. I was stunned that the Tiny Bronco actually works. The problem I have is that it seems like other people just could not keep their autism in check.

>>712533734
>The energy source is literally LIFE ITSELF. So yeah.
Ever heard of fertilizer? That's LIFE ENERGY

>>712533947
I think something happens to Japanese creators as they get older. Or maybe it's just Japanese culture in general changing or something. Either way I've noticed it a lot in anime too that they end up getting really soft and trying to whitewash or retcon things that used to have teeth. Like Avalanche never actually hurting anyone or Gold Saucer no longer being built on top of Old Corel. It feels like the Japanese have become averse to 'edge' or something. So even though Rebirth is soulful as hell they just can't help but think "but what if it was happier? Happy is nice."

>>712533828
It's not even that the slums are bright. It's that the more negative parts of the slums have been belt sanded off. The slums in OG are depicted as a shithole. It's not just that the people are poor. It's that as a result of their mistreatment by Shinra, they've become depraved. The slums are full of thieves, addicts, and low income workers trying to survive the other 2. In Sector 7, you can visit the weapons shop where you get a tutorial on mechanics. And on the top floor there's a fight club with literal children and grown men watching then beat the shit out of each other. In fact, the tutorial on limit breaks comes from watching one child beat up another child until the second one knocks out the first.

In Remake, the kindergarten fight club doesn't exist. There are children there but they're not only explicitly shown as playing, they're also friendly with each other and express that they're training to join the Neighborhood Watch. THERE'S A NEIGHBORHOOD WATCH IN THE FUCKING GHETTO! Why is SE so afraid of presenting the slums as a terrible place to live?

>>712534130
And you don't think there's a difference between literal shit and the souls of the dead?

>live in a world where literal magic exists
>there are mythological gods you can just meet and talk to or fight face to face
>a shady street vendor can sell you magic rocks that let you cast spells
>but despite all this whimsical majesty existing we're supposed to believe that an allegory for the oil industry is believable
FF7 sucked hot dog shit from the very beginning

>>712534278
Not really, no. Cows shit and the psychic energy of a dead cow are kinda the same thing

>>712534331
What the fuck are you even trying to say? Materia and mako are the same fucking thing, the souls of the living. The reason people can cast magic is because they're drawing on the same power fueling their computer. How is this even supposed to be at odds with itself?

>>712528967 (OP)
Midgar has existed for less than 20 years and it's already turned the entire region into a wasteland. Exactly how smooth is your brain?

>>712534465
Materia is shown to naturally crystalize in places, it doesn't have to be intentionally made.
Mako reactors are literally a direct parallel to power plants burning petroleum fuels. Shinra is evil because they're sucking up and burning oil. Thats it. Thats the low IQ low effort writing, and its the entire driving plot point of the game, everything is tied to it.

>>712528967 (OP)
>COAL GOOD
>GAS BAD

>>712534331
Well this is, yet again, an issue of Remake drinking it's own kool-aid. In OG the fact that Mako energy are literal souls is lost knowledge. The party first learns this information in Cosmo Canyon. Fucking Zack was a 1st Class SOLDIER and he didn't know. And that's by design. Shinra has rebranded "The Lifestream" into "Mako" so it's not immediately apparent what it is. And it's not the only time Shinra had rewritten history for their own purposes. Remember that time a whole village was burned down and memory holed by Shinra? Oh you thought I was talking about Nibelheim? No I was actually talking about Corel although it happened there too. For that matter the fact their decorated hero went crazy and killed everyone around him is just entirely unknown. Everyone still thinks Sephiroth was a hero. The Northern Continent has a name. It's Knowlespole. But you'd never know that because Shinra has named it "Icicle Area." And Midgar's Slums used to be villages with their own individual names until Remake retconned that. No wonder Yuffie is fighting so hard to free Wutai, how long before it loses its name too?

It's one of the things I HATE about Remake. If everyone knows that you return to the Planet on death then why the fuck are they so apathetic about Mako energy?

>>712534186
look at their press-freedom index lol. the original game was criticizing a lot of facets of japanese society, mainly all the countries resources being consolidated in Tokyo and leaving the rest of the nation to rot or descend into tourist traps. there was a lot of talk about how japan was wasteful, cruel to animals, bad for the environment, and oppressive to workers because of the rise of giant corporations(like TEPCO, which ShinRa is based on).

now, the attitude is that these issues have been "dealt with" and media criticizing them too explicitly isn't covered by the press, even in gaming. so yes, they're basically afraid of anything edgy if it's substantial and not pure shock-horror or edginess for the sake of edginess. a complicated story about shitty people maybe being kinda right about some things(like Evil MegaCorp actually being Tangibly Evil and not moustache-twirling anime villains in color-coded mechs) while also being maybe kinda shitty(like that segment where the OG game makes you think barret went postal, or the part where cloud beats the shit out of aries) wouldn't get press coverage now.

>>712534623
>natural resource exists naturally
>people bad because they permanently destroy the natural resource for short term gain
Yeah? Again, what the fuck are you even trying to complain about? That is indeed the driving factor of the game. And? Use your big boy words.

>>712533086
>ah another sunny day in Midgar. perpetual night what's that lol
>sephiroth sephiroth hey its been five minutes we need to put sephiroth in again hey viewer did you know? sephiroth. watch us fuck up our Jaws allegory in exactly the same way the movies did!

>>712534821
Do you have autism or some other mental disorder?

>killing people is.... LE ALRIGHT
>but using their souls to fuel a furnace is.... LE WRONG
What's the fucking difference? Nobody believes in afterlife at the beginning

>>712534356
Except if you somehow touched the soul of the dead cow, you could experience it's memories of life and even emulate it's skills of eating grass. Memories and experiences that can be reconstituted to new life that could be forever lost if burned away. If you touch cow shit, you get a shitty hand. Which you would then use to make your post.

>>712534945
Do you know how to use big boy words or is mommy still teaching you how?

>>712534830
>>ah another sunny day in Midgar. perpetual night what's that lol

This shit pissed me off. Because that was a memorable descriptor by Barret in OG

>Barret
>Look... you can see the surface now. This city don't have no day or night.
>If that plate weren't there... we could see the sky.

>>712534965
Anon, I already eat dead cows. I support an industry which slaughters cows by the millions, beings that feel fear, pain and stress. Why would I care about the soul of a cow if I for care about the ones being alive to begin with?

>>712534960
The problem is that bad guy's soul can be reused to create a new person

>>712534945
make an argument or shut the fuck up retard.

>>712535081
They still try and treat it that way in Remake too even though it's sunny. Also those "sun lamps" aren't even turned on in the daytime, they're only on at night. What a joke.

>>712535081
not only a memorable descriptor, but a cyberpunk staple. perpetual night was a thing in '80s cyberpunk, it has meaning and history.

>>712535120
Because the problem, within the context of FF7, is that it's not just cows. The Lifestream is a thing that's constantly recycled. It doesn't just reproduce cows in a 1:1 exchange, old life is used to create new life and that pool is limited. There's already an energy loss from just basic entropy. Lifestream that crystallize into Materia do not re-enter the cycle of life and therefore the Planet has an expiration date. But just because the Planet has an expiration date does not mean it makes sense to just set fire to the extremely limited resource that permits the Planet itself to exist because you don't care that grandma's soul is being used to keep the porn servers up

>>712535408
>But just because the Planet has an expiration date does not mean it makes sense to just set fire to the extremely limited resource that permits the Planet itself to exist because you don't care that grandma's soul is being used to keep the porn servers up
I'd rather fire up bunch of useless souls and try to deal with the problem instead of jerking around. Those dead guys had their chance, they could've done something but now they're dead and powering the future. That's the price of progress.

>>712535198
Fuck your sleep schedule. Wake up and go to work.

>>712535223
Well it also serves as thematic role. No one remembers life before or outside of Shinra. From the time you wake up to the time you don't go to sleep because of the fucking Sun Lamps, you know who owns you. Even the ability to look at the fucking sky is locked behind a credit score, only people who have enough money to live on the Plate get to do something as basic to see the Sun. In Remake, Midgar is basically a really large bridge. I don't even think they have that wall locking you inside the city in the Remake.

>>712535545
Okay you understand those dead guys were previously other guys right? What happens when the Lifestream runs out and the Planet can't sustain itself any longer?

>>712535604
>In Remake, Midgar is basically a really large bridge.
which is less oppressive than what it was in the original.
in the OG, not even your credit score was going to get you something as basic as LIGHT.

>nobody dies in the plate drop
>everyone is happy and singing and rebuilding the slums the next day
LMAAAAAOOOOOOOOO

I have responded to every single post ITT criticizing remake to set the poster straight

>>712535673
Yevon will just come down and give us more life stream, duh, you fucking degenerate sinner.
you probably think deporting all these Gongagians is wrong too. so what if armed squads bust into a school and disappear a few teachers? THEY SHOULD HAVE COME IN THE RIGHT WAY

>>712535839
Jesus fuck why did you remind me. Seriously why did SE go out of their way to scrub away ANY amount of edge the original may have had? What even is the point anymore?

>>712535673
Lifestream runs out some point anyway, I'd rather try to fix it

>>712535805
Also in OG you discover that Shinra has bedding and work out rooms so that employees who work there don't have to leave. So even if you're lucky enough to live on the Plate, you're functionally a slave who doesn't get to go home

>>712536019
>What even is the point anymore?
For fans who can't move on to spend more time with the characters, at any cost

>>712535937
The Shinra Reactor blowing up in Gongaga was because of lack of maintenence. It's Shinra's responsibility to take care of those refugees. And why did we never get an explanation for WHY those people from Corel damaged Reactor that they asked for a few months prior?

>>712531594
true

>>712536104
Those areas in the building always looked really cozy to me. I love the idea of walking around an office building at night.

>>712537456
I prefer night shift too anon

But I'd also like to go home at the end of my shift. What's the point of living on the Plate if I have to live at work. I'm sure my best friend is getting tired of checking up on my wife and making sure she's okay

>>712537456
once i worked in a call center, and our sister site in Manila sent over some people to help us get a project started. they were telling us about where they worked, how it was in a mall with food courts and gyms and even rooms to sleep. my coworkers were all like
>Oh, that sounds so neat! Having access to all this stuff at work!
and my first thought was you don't understand, the company pays them like $1.20 an hour and expects them to never leave.

its hurting humans too retard

>>712528967 (OP)
Why did they saturate Cloud's colors?

Cloud in the cowgirl position is the best kind of chocobo ride

>>712538534
Because Advent Children did not do that

>>712538748
AC was grey ugly shit.
And the fight scenes were such sloppy poorly animated garbage with a spastic incoherent camera.

>>712538879
I think 50% of Advent Children's fame came from the FF7 cast transitioning from Lego blocks to facsimiles of real people filtered through 2 layers of anime