Thread 712923675

And it cannot be denied.

>>712923675 (OP)
Wotlk is not S tier.

>>712923675 (OP)
wotlk should be in C
mop should be in S
wod should be in A

>>712923675 (OP)

Swap Wrath and Vanilla and you're set

The only good things about wrath were ICC and Ulduar for raiding, Grizzly Hills and Howling Fjord for aesthetic/music. The dungeons were the worst in the entire history of WoW, and there was nothing else special about it.

>>712923675 (OP)
Vanilla to WOTLK is the only era worth playing

>>712923675 (OP)
>Vanilla not in S-tier

Denathrius' charisma saves Sneedolands from D tier.

>>712924634
nothing saves that shit pile

>>712923675 (OP)
How many WoW threads do you need?
Should be none, and you'd stay the fuck in your general.

>>712923675 (OP)
>DF and TWW that low
You didn't play either of them, kek

Can people fucking stop with this Mists of Pandaria historical revisionism bullshit. It was fucking awful and you'll all realise how shitty it was when Classic MOP comes out.

The zones were shit.
The level was shit.
The theme of the expansion was preachy bullshit.
The raids were fucking boring.
None of the gear looks good.
PVP was a fucking borefest where nobody died.
Legendary cloak quest was a slog.

Just fuck off, none of you actually played this dogshit expansion.

going through wotlk a second time really showed me that it was mostly nostalgia.

>>712923675 (OP)
ftfy

>>712923675 (OP)
more like world of warcrap

>>712924634
i really liked both revendreth and ardenweald

>>712924749

Oh no! Another Mario Kart thread died for this!

>>712924865
But it had "le best class design", meaning
>every class had 50 buttons but you only used 3 of them in combat
>every caster had a "move while casting" ability
>it introduced the most hated talent system of all time

>>712923960
If they do WoD Classic but keep it to like 9 months I think it'll undergo a major boost in public perception
Blackrock Foundry and Hellfire Citadel are two of the best raids in the game

I quit after lich king
did I miss anything

>>712923675 (OP)
I deny
C is still bad by the way

>>712925146

Blizzard completely demolished the world with Cata. Also eventually the dumpster fire that is LFR was introduced.

Firelands was a pretty kino raid though.

>>712925316
are you really still seething about lfr after all these years

>>712924865

this

>>712925146
You missed a few shitty expansions, a brief shining light with Legion, followed by a few more shitty expansions, followed by a glorious return to form and new peak in Dragonflight.

Cata was the only time dungeons had teeth

>>712923675 (OP)

Why do people suck Vanilla's dick so much? Over half the specs are worthless and leveling 1-60 especially at 1x rates is a boring slog.

>>712925606
TBC Heroics.

>>712924865
>no
>no
>no
>hell no
>no, it's when gear started looking decent
>actually true, FUCK padded sumo PvP, but late Cata is what ushered it in and it's never left
>absolutely true

>>712925684
It didn't have flying, which meant you actually got immersed in the world.

>>712925606
and the playerbase threw a shit fit about it

>>712925606
I played classic recently, and it's amazing how good the dungeons are. A team of mostly Benediction players in ilvl 390+ will consistently get its shit pushed in for not following mechanics and it feels completely fair.

>>712925684
It's obvious you think the "game begins at endgame" which is exactly why you don't understand why Vanilla is so popular.

>>712925684
But.... bro... it's HOME.

>>712925684
The slow, almost meditative lvling is exactly what is good about Vanilla. The lvl 60 endgame is so ass. But generally it's just extreme nostalgia and slow dadgamers reverting to what is known and comfortable. Classic Andies treat Vanilla like it's a religious text.

>>712923675 (OP)
TBC and WotLK were not good expansions

>>712925769
Good.

>>712923675 (OP)
vanilla is above wotlk and bc what the fuck are you doing

>>712926023
>>712926209
>*crack* *sip*

>>712923810
>>712923675 (OP)
Turns out it can be denied easily. And that is not surprising because there's not one obvious way to rank the versions: depending on how you think about it, you could just as well treat vanilla as the premier raidlogging expansion second only to Wrath, with bad endgame content even dad guilds can faceroll (and then further argue about whether that is in fact a bad thing), and good leveling experience but one that is obsoleted by the two expansions because they let you do it with better class mechanics, added content, and better client. Or you could look at amount of irreversible bad designs, conclude that every expansion has strictly added irreversible bad designs (on top of e.g. Forsaken joining the Horde, night elves joining the Alliance, and the game being a fundamentally about vertical progression in max level content) and then conclude vanilla undoubtedly has the best "potential" because it hasn't yet been "ruined" by features x,y,z introduced in later expansions.

In some ways I could even be tempted to rate expansions listed in S/A tier below those in C/D tier: if I had to play the version "seriously" then you can't play blizzlike vanilla through Wrath seriously because endgame tuning is a joke (based on private server experience, even Ragnaros with legs needs +30% sort of buffs to feel like a respectable boss) so while I hate most parts of the neo-WoW, I'd have to say "fuck it" and raidlog WoD or whatever (I didn't actually play it, but I hear Blackrock Foundry in particular was actually pretty good as a raid). On the other hand, if private (or otherwise modified) servers count then TBC and Wrath suddenly raise by several notches (although unevenly: even extreme custom tuning can't really make WotLK Naxx or TOGC interesting, while buffed Ulduar suddenly makes several fights far more execution-heavy than they used to be while in buffed ICC you just do the fights as you'd always do except you need more throughput).

>Turns out it can be denied easily. And that is not surprising because there's not one obvious way to rank the versions: depending on how you think about it, you could just as well treat vanilla as the premier raidlogging expansion second only to Wrath, with bad endgame content even dad guilds can faceroll (and then further argue about whether that is in fact a bad thing), and good leveling experience but one that is obsoleted by the two expansions because they let you do it with better class mechanics, added content, and better client. Or you could look at amount of irreversible bad designs, conclude that every expansion has strictly added irreversible bad designs (on top of e.g. Forsaken joining the Horde, night elves joining the Alliance, and the game being a fundamentally about vertical progression in max level content) and then conclude vanilla undoubtedly has the best "potential" because it hasn't yet been "ruined" by features x,y,z introduced in later expansions.

>In some ways I could even be tempted to rate expansions listed in S/A tier below those in C/D tier: if I had to play the version "seriously" then you can't play blizzlike vanilla through Wrath seriously because endgame tuning is a joke (based on private server experience, even Ragnaros with legs needs +30% sort of buffs to feel like a respectable boss) so while I hate most parts of the neo-WoW, I'd have to say "fuck it" and raidlog WoD or whatever (I didn't actually play it, but I hear Blackrock Foundry in particular was actually pretty good as a raid). On the other hand, if private (or otherwise modified) servers count then TBC and Wrath suddenly raise by several notches (although unevenly: even extreme custom tuning can't really make WotLK Naxx or TOGC interesting, while buffed Ulduar suddenly makes several fights far more execution-heavy than they used to be while in buffed ICC you just do the fights as you'd always do except you need more throughput).

>>712923675 (OP)
I agree that WoD is the worst. I personally didn't enjoy legion at all and I believe you've been too kind to that expac.

>>712923675 (OP)
good attempt but BfA in B throws the whole thing in the shitter

>>712923675 (OP)

>cata that high

That shit was what founded the beginning of the downfall of WoW. Though to be fair, Blizzard had already sold out a few years prior to Cata's release.

>>712923675 (OP)
vanilla is the best and only version of wow i can stomach playing, i'd care for tbc and wrath if they didnt have flying though but flying is 100% a deal breaker

>>712925684
I know that you're likely incapable of being convinced, but I'll explain it to you. It's something that the WoW devs have never fully understood. But there are six pillars of classic WoW's game design that all work together to make it one of the most engaging games ever made.

1. Everything takes a really long time or is otherwise taxing in some way.
I'm not just talking about raids or the big grinds. I'm talking about the basic stuff like checking your mail, getting to instances, crafting basic items, finding a repair vendor, etc. Everything you do in the game has a lot of friction. Which means...

2. Any upgrade or improvement to your character has a lot of weight.
And I don't just mean killing power or survivability. Carrot on a stick is an upgrade you can feel. Getting a bigger bag has a tangible impact on you. Which ties into..

3. Unique itemization means that heaps of items have their moment to be useful.
There's a cloth belt that improves swim speed. There's a mauradon trinket that removes a poison. Right now on anniversary, warlocks are farming shadow res gear for Twin Emps. As you progress, you build a bigger and bigger toolkit that lets you navigate the world and it's challenges just a little easier. Which also means...

4. Content (Zones/Dungeons/Raids) always continue to be worth doing
Mauradon for NR gear. Scholo for Dark Runes. ZG for idol enchants. Theres a reason to go back to tons of "outdated" content. Content doesn't just fall off and fade away - it stays relevant for the whole expansion.

5. Anything worth doing can't be done alone.
Self explanatory. WoW is a social game, and what keeps people logging in isn't the epic loot or boss kills but rather the people they raid with.

and finally, 6. The game is constantly giving you glimpses into content you might never fully explore.
Vanilla WoW is a big game. But you won't see all of it. You're not supposed to. That's the point.

>>712923675 (OP)
>bfa in b tier
naw that shit goes right with wod in the trash. bump up shadowlands in c tier.

>>712923675 (OP)
People severely underrate the importance of story / lore even though only a fraction of players are RPers. That’s why MOP is a “good expansion” but it’s seen as a retarded joke. It’s also why Legion is ranked very highly despite huge gameplay problems. Legion actually had people hoping that there was going to be a new dawn of a WoW golden age in 2017-2018

>>712923675 (OP)

>move BFA to D
>move Cata to C
>swap Vanilla and Wrath

Fixed

WoD was great and if you really dive into most people's criticism of it their main complaint was that it wasn't a life replacement.

>>712925684
I started wow in panda and hated it, tried every expansion after until nost came out and hated them but loved vanilla.
Questing and slow leveling in a big open world with people in it is fun. Slowly leveling and setting small goals and achieving them like going out to level your professions, doing a quest or a dungeon run feels good. People want classic+ just to keep doing that and to fix unfinished classes like paladin and druid.

>>712925041
>it introduced the most hated talent system of all time
There's actually more choice in MoP than previous expansions. Yes you had more talents to choose from before, but most of them weren't good and every class had one combination of talents that performed best. Everyone used the same talents.

S: Vanilla
A: TBC
D: Everything else

Whoever made that list started in TBC. Probably Asmongold.

>>712923675 (OP)
Bfa should be lower.
Is the expansion that finally caused me to quit for good.

>>712925684

The community was one of the best aspects. This of course was back during WoW's initial launch though. Today they're mostly insufferable faggots or bots.

>>712925201
>le old good
>le new bad

>>712927250
pretty good post
but I doubt adhd zoomers would ever understand the appeal of vanilla

>>712927769
adhd zoomers wouldnt even be able to read the post, they'd need it to be explained in a wojak edit

>>712927243
I never got the complaints about flying. You can't use it while leveling and most of the time spent at end-game is places where you can't fly. It's barely a factor besides making world pvp more avoidable

>>712927558
>Questing and slow leveling in a big open world with people in it is fun
Because that’s what an MMORPG should be.
WoW basically became a live service game after 3.2 and never returned to what made it good in the first place.

Bros I'm thinking of trying Turtle. Is it deserving of the praise it gets?

>>712927862
flying over the world at 3 times speed is fucking gay, tbc is the start of retail where you brainlessly fly from chore to chore

>>712925606
Compared to TBC pre-nerf heroics Cata bosses obviously have more fires going on, but it relies on those mechanics because in terms of "raw tuning" it's way lesser: you just don't have trash mobs globalling tanks in Cata or anything of the sort (which might then necessitate out-of-box tactics, kiting the second Arcatraz sentinel away and what not).

If actually beating the content is the metric you want to use, and I think it's the only reasonable metric, then by 2025 standards (or 2022 really, which was the last time I played on Cata FRESH) I would expect private server PuGs to successfully clear all pre-nerf Cata heroics, while the tougher half of TBC heroics (Old Hillsbrad, Botanica, Arcatratz, Mana Tombs, etc) is basically a no-go for the same contemporary players. For the record, Classic had the most nerfed versions of heroics.

>>712927981
There has never been a good private server.

>>712927981

>trannywow

Like dumpster diving if it were a WoW version.

>>712927981
no. just wait and month and try out project epoch.

>>712923675 (OP)
wotlk was S until halfway into the expansion when activision bought them and then they implemented shit like LFG

>>712927981
Turtle is good but Project Epoch is about to come out next month and it looks way better.

>>712928092
activision bought blizzard during TBC. I think it was around the middle or end of TBC

>S tier
vanilla, legion
>F tier
anything else

>>712927752
Every expansion after WotLK is mediocre at best and irremediably garbage at worst. So yeah you're right, old good new bad.

>>712928057

Nostalrius was kino as fuck for the first while. But other than that, agreed.

>>712928085
>>Like dumpster diving if it were a WoW version.
thats retail

>>712928154
nope i distinctly remember it was in 2008 after wotlk had released

>S Tier
Projekt Epoch
>D Tier
Turdle WoW
checkmate

>>712928264
they merged with blizzard in summer of 08, a few months before wotlk released

Reminder that this shitter "streamer" got his shit handed to him as a 25 druid by a 17 hunter. Kek

>>712928806
>reminder hunters are broken low level in low level pvp, especially against one of the worst classes in the game
wow

>>712923675 (OP)
wrath literally ruined wow

wrong wotlk already ruined open world.

>>712928806
Wasn't he the fag who kept shilling himself on here right before classic came out?

>>712927250
I get what you are saying, but on the other hand, given competent play, those pillars are... aspirational? It's like finding some bizarre Chess meta in an off-grid Russian village somewhere in Siberia in which White tends to open with f3, and then claiming that Black has the advantage. Especially when this is said in a context where it's compared to other legacy-expansions rather than Cata+.

>>712923675 (OP)
There was a Wrath launch nostalgia thread earlier and I can't find it in the archive cause I can't remember the op.
Anyone got it? Some vids were posted in it I want to see.

>>712930891
what?