Thread 713361612

How do we FIX this shitty-ass progression system? It obviously needs a total overhaul.

>no copper tools
>takes 2 minutes to get stone tools, and the whole process is annoying and pointless. 10 minutes later you'll have a bunch of iron and functionally may as well have beaten the game already

How would copper tools help?

You play with mods because the only updates Microshit feels like making to this game are retarded animal mobs that take 6 months of development to shit out

>>713361612 (OP)
make villagers be able to mine
thus it's more about equipping your villagers rather than just yourself

>>713362042
I JUST *WANT* THEM MOTHERFUCKER C'MON

For fuck sake just make them the same tier as iron, less durable but slightly faster. Have people forgotten that the point of a game is to have fun, not for everything to be 100% optimal

>>713361612 (OP)
People who play Minecraft by rushing to endgame gear like diamond tools and elytra are morons who ruin the experience for themselves. If you got diamond tools before you even built a house no fucking shit you lose interest in the game and quit.

This progression wasn't made for unbreaking, mending or enchanting/repairing in general. High-end tools like diamond were meant to be rare and non-permanent

>>713362240
This, I'm an autistic retard with zero creativity that doesn't take the time to ever do anything that is considered 'unnecessary' and therefore never have fun. I do build stuff with other people though so maybe I just lack a sense of self-drive, or maybe minecraft is just fucking boring alone

>>713362240
this is why I hate doing the yearly minecraft server with my autist friends because you miss one session and those guys are kitted out in full enchanted netherite armor with tons of automated farms and I fucking hate redstone and will never use it
it was such a breath of fresh air to play with my gf who fucking sucks at the game and was letting creepers and zombies into our house

>>713362240
>>713362434
alpha/beta minecraft chads come out on top once again
my minecraft rail network > elytra

They should add gemstones to caves, and make it so you can't enchant your tools unless it's got a gemstone in the hilt

>>713362751
this but with terraria
one day you're beating wall of flesh, the next you have to miss because you're forced to work overtime or something comes up at home, the next they've already beaten golem and are getting ready to summon the moon lord

>>713363983
to be fair terraria more heavily leans towards progression because who cares about building stuff in 2d lmao it's godawful

>>713361612 (OP)
Raspberry flavored mod pack fixes it
Replaces stone tools with copper tools, you now actually need to use wood for more than 3 seconds
Gold can now be turned into high teir alloys as an alterative to diamond

>>713361612 (OP)
have an intended path, but then allow people to bypass it somehow. none of you niggers have played valheim, but this is the example I'm going with. in valheim, you start out with wooden tools that break easily, and are limited in what they can do. you're supposed to use them to make a basic ass encampment, then gather resources to defeat the boss, who then provides you with a drop that you can then use to craft a new pickaxe, which can then be used to finally craft some metal equipment. this same progression happens throughout each biome, with (a) new resource(s) introduced for you to collect and then in turn develop better equipment.

the thing is, there are ways to bypass this. early on you can find trolls in the black forest that you can goad into destroying copper and tin ore, which you can use to make a forge and bronze equipment. once you have that, you can bypass the swamp grind by finding a sealed tower and killing all the little niggers inside, then destroying the metal in the tower for already processed metal bars.

you can also go to the mistlands, the second to last biome, and find ruined bridges, and destroy those to get a fuckton of iron and marble. basically, in this way you can approach the game differently. the grind is removed to some extent, and now you have the means through which you can get end game materials without following the predetermined path. of course, the bottleneck is the fourth boss, whose drop is required to be able to use some materials found in later biomes, so there is a limit to what you can do without following the intended path.

still, it's an example of a game having an intended path and a sort of sequence break path that returning players/knowledgeable players can take advantage of.

>>713361612 (OP)
I replayed Minecraft recently and was confused why I couldn't make a copper pickaxe because of Terraria.

>>713363983
>his friend group plays terraria without him when something comes up
damn, bro. either that's a really big friend group or they aren't really your friends.

>>713364406
I never have the wiki shit memorized so it's hard to remember what exactly I'm supposed to be gathering or looking for to do next.

>>713364797
tbf the last time it happened there 8 people on the server stretched across 3 different time zones and a bunch of different work schedules, I don't know why we thought that was gonna work

>>713361612 (OP)
>I want to play Vintage Story
Go play Vintage Story, Anon.

>>713365361
better yet, play minecraft with the 'better than wolves' mod, it'll satisfy your masochistic urges way more

>>713365453
>wanting a better progression system is masochistic
??

>>713364652
to clarify:
>intended path
1. get leather --> build crude bow, stone axe, build basic workbenches and forge leather armor, a club, a wooden shield
2. collect foods to prepare to fight boss --> boss drops the hard antler, which you use to make antler pickaxe
3. use antler pickaxe to get copper + tin ore, enter crypts to get surtling cores --> refine ore, craft workbenches and bronze equipment
4. collect more resources to fight black forest boss --> he drops swamp key --> use swamp key to find iron in the swamp crypts
5. use iron to craft an iron pickaxe --> now you can get silver from mountains, etc
>alternative path
1. make crude bow and a lot of arrows, collect some food for survival
2. find a troll and copper + tin ore
3. bait troll into destroying ore and collect as much as you can
4. make a forge, make bronze pickaxe, a cauldron, a cultivator, a fermentation barrel, and a mead ketill
5. collect more ore until you can get a bronze sword
6. enter swamp, kill leeches to get bloodbags + use them to make frost resistance mead
7. enter frozen caves and collect wolf fur to make fenris set (it has frost resistance)
8. find sealed tower, bring lots of frost arrows, carefully kill the niggers inside, get enough iron for your essential upgrades

alternative path skips the bullshit, you have to do a lot of grinding if you follow the intended path; alt path has less grinding but you're more prone to error, because you have shit equipment so you can die a lot easier, especially in later biomes so you have to be knowledgeable of the game to attempt this sort of sequence breaking.

>>713362093
Which animal is the Happy Ghast based on?

>>713361612 (OP)
There was never any need for a tier beyond diamond

>>713365571
yes. too much progression is like too much edging, at some point you just hate yourself

>>713361612 (OP)
VINTAGE
STORY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJjifFq1NGY

>>713361612 (OP)
Unironically alloying. Would make everything way more fun and interesting, like tinkers construct, each material has certain inherent strengths and weaknesses and let me mix and match as I please, honestly they could just directly port tinkers construct into the game and instantly make it 100x better. But if they actually went all out and fully tweaked and overhauled everything too while also adding a few new materials, unironically could make minecraft amazing to play for at least a few months to maybe even a year.

>>713361612 (OP)
I don't want flimsy copper tools unless it's going to be weird out of place magitech stuff.
We got a lightning rod and telescope so far. May as well make a redstone conduit and an inscribed crafter. Copper armor could be cool if it had a gimmick to it. Considering that enchanting sucks ass maybe it could improve that aspect somehow.

>>713365601
I can't fathom bothering to lure a troll for fucking hours just to skip the tutorial boss considering just how slow that would be.
Same with going all the way to the swamp just to kill leeches when the iron piles are literally right there.
I respect taking your own path, but realistically few people will ever deviate that far from the intended progression.

>>713361612 (OP)
Make progression less linear - as it is Minecraft (and most similar games) now, once you get to the next tier, everything in the tier below and basically all resources used in the tier below become instantly irrelevant, but that's not how most shit really works - in reality you find new applications for materials over time, the importance of materials waxes and wanes as you make new advancements. Copper, for example, was the most important material in the world until it suddenly wasn't anymore, and then a few thousand years later new discoveries suddenly made it extremely important again.

Having a tech tree that's less linear is more realistic and also keeps things more interesting.

>>713366553
>for fucking hours
it really doesn't take that long. besides, you're going to spend just as long, if not longer, acquiring the ore in the intended way, because you will have to arduously mine it yourself, whereas the troll can destroy an entire deposit of ore in a matter of minutes. as for the swamp, leeches are relatively easy to kill, and since you don't have to waste time in the crypts to get iron, you spend very little time there beyond acquiring the basic materials for some upgrades you will need later on (turnips and metal chains; the other resources like entrails can be acquired in later biomes).

there's no downside to doing it this way, provided you know what you're doing and can avoid bad situations (like dying far from your base and losing your equipment on the other side of the world somewhere). by the time you get to the mistlands, you can make krom (2h greatsword) without defeating a single boss.

just saying, it's better than the intended path. if you know, you know. more games should be designed in this way.

>>713361612 (OP)
there's a bunch of great mods for tool progression like tinker's construct

>>713361612 (OP)
Add drills, chainsaws and warhammers.
These require getting rare ancient materials from the deepest depths of dungeons.

>>713364406
>because who cares about building stuff in 2d lmao it's godawful
I'm much more inclined to build stuff in terraria than minecraft, because at least there's a proper incentive to build and it does look good if you put effort. I don't see any point in putting much effort on building during a survival minecraft playthrough because the game has nothing to do, and I have no desire to build in creative, since I like when I actually get to use and see my buildings.

>>713367839
>wow look at my boss arena the wood platforms floating in midair are so cool

>>713367959
>NPC housing and pylons gives you a huge incentive to build houses in the different biomes and you also have a constant incentive to revisit them thanks to the biomes themselves having stuff to do and the NPCs selling stuff
>You can actually get creative, pick different spots you want to build, build themed housing, and get to see your cool and cosy buildings from start to finish in your playthrough
Meanwhile I start my minecraft world, build a main area, get bored halfway through and quit. I have little to no incentive to explore the endless procedurally generated empty biomes other than finding a village for emeralds and enchanted books. Again, I can actually, just for the fun of it, build cool shit in minecraft, but it feels pointless to do everytime I create a new world when I know I'll run out of stuff to do quickly and quit, while that doesn't happen as often in Terraria.

>>713368873
ah yes, the huge incentive to make 5x12 houses scattered everywhere throughout the world to get that inconsequential buff, riveting.

>>713367959
Kind of pisses me off that you need these, and that melee is basically suicidal even after the various patches on anything higher than normal because of contact damage.
Terraria building is extremely forced, which is why every world has their wooden/dirt jail cells for basic trade, hellevator, and long hell bridge to fight the wall of flesh on.
The added annoyance of having traders hate each other in certain combos is even dumber.

>>713362042
copper would be to iron tools what gold tools are to diamond ones
>they would be as good as iron but break as fast as gold
>the player is incentivised to make them because copper is more common than iron in current versions and thus easier to make

>>713369757
Literally nobody makes or uses gold tools, so I hope it would not be like that.

What's your excuse for still caring about vanilla minecraft past Microsoft purchase?
Why aren't you playing modded 1.7.10 or 1.12.2?

>>713361612 (OP)
make copper look orange
bring back old ore textures
add copper tools

require casting iron, metallurgy and finding some shitty random material in caves, so that you can advance from copper to iron etc.,

>>713370936
Copper is already orange, this is true for the blocks, ore blocks, and everything made from copper.
Having distinct textures for different ores is a good thing.
>copy mods/vintage story to gate iron of all things
Seems out of place to put the filter on the midgame material instead of saving that for endgame, which is what netherite already is by the way.
>craft/buy diamond tools
>smelt gold
>combine with shitty ancient debris

Play Vintage Story

Vintage Story

>>713365453
>noooo play minecraft
No, play a game actually made for what OP wants, Microsoft shill.

>>713362042
For all those times I play a modpack and keep stumbling across shit I need iron to get, but I've got nothing but fucking copper.

>713365453
Ignore this idiot's streamerbait suggestion, OP. If you wanna stay in Minecraft, play TerraFirmaCraft. If you want a game designed around autistic progression, pirate Vintage Story to see if it's for you.

is there anything significant that's missing from vintage story that minecraft has?

>>713373864
as a fellow autist, i understand why you took that joke literally

i've never made it to having netherite gear. they made it way too annoying to even care.

>>713361612 (OP)
Just go play vintage story

>>713377162
redstone equivalent

>>713361612 (OP)
I use stone tools for everything unless I'm specifically mining something which requires iron or diamond.

I just wish they'd fucking bring back the old caves. I like the new ones but holy shit the ore distribution is so ass now.

>>713361612 (OP)
I recently tried the newest version but is it just me or irons so much darn rarer now?
I feel like they were all replaced by copper. Even when I do find an iron vein the numbers seemed way smaller. Tried playing an older version in comparison and indeed iron was much easier to get

>>713370046
Golden hoe with fortune is quite good.

it's been over for a while now, but i think this latest update 1.21.6 is where i'm completely done with this game. it introduced simply way too many things i can't agree with. saddles should be rare. leashes should be require the slime ball to craft. the happy ghast shouldn't exist. it's hideous and undermines everything else added to the game that facilitates building and travel. they simply could not make a solid decision to keep it rare and stick by it. first it shows up in piglin loot pools, now this living entity has a fucking crafting recipe.

>>713379363
>>713379448
ore distribution was ass. this feels like a decision made by someone who doesn't play this game.

iron was made to be more common in mountains, but who the fuck wants to level a mountain for a little bit of iron? mountains aren't that common. caves are common, and everyone who actually plays this game wants to find iron alongside rarer ores.

>>713361612 (OP)
>fix
Mojang doesn't care to fix it. They want everything as dumbed down as it can be. Wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle, because they know their audience is babies.
This game developing in a positive direction longterm died with Notch selling it.

>>713379962
The bees, happy ghasts, endless villager-esque mob variants etc are so fucking cancer. Same with Piglins, they're more mechanically complex than the zombie pigmen were, but they're basically just a sanitized worse mob.

>>713379962
Now that I think about it after you said it the decision to make them spawn more in mountains feels like a way to make people explore more. They've been really pushing that aspect of Minecraft in recent years and it wouldn't surprise me if "set up a minecart track or travel to a mountain on horseback" was on their bulletin mood board or whatever.

>>713377162
Villages, boats that don't suck ass, minecarts, pistons, slime/honey block connections, bows that don't suck ass, swords, shields that don't suck ass, stained glass and blocks, carpet, banner making, multiple dimensions, enchanting, a repair system for tools, and more, but this is just off the top of my head.
Vintage story has a lot more grind, but not as much content.

>>713369757
>copper would be to iron tools what gold tools are to diamond ones
Iron tools are better than gold tools in every metric but mining speed and enchanting. In fact, gold tools are so shit that you cannot even mine iron/gold/diamond ores with them, so you're retarded aaaand a negro

>>713365601
Just play vintage story anon

>>713361612 (OP)
add bosses that grant buffs to ores

No game has better progression than Terraria, change my fucking mind

>>713383470
true but progression sucks because it's always one and done. you spend 100 hours on one playthrough and never play again because it's always going to be the same shit you go through

>>713377162
Autism factory mods. Vintage story only has a shitty windmill and helve hammer. They talked about adding more steampunk shit ages ago but still haven't touched it.

>>713383843
You have 4 different playstyles with more or less different progression

>>713384003
changing your playstyle doesn't change the content. you still feel like you've 'been there, done that' even though you're doing it differently. and don't bring up challenges where you limit yourself arbitrarily, i can't take that shit seriously

>>713365606
troons

>>713361612 (OP)
Remove the three rightmost tiers completely, gold and diamond make no sense as materials for any of these tools, and I have no idea what the last one even is. Replace them with refined steel or something that's made of combining multiple materials together.
Also remove wood picks and wooden and stone swords. Those should be metal at minimum.

>>713361612 (OP)
>get wood
>get stone tools
>run in straight line killing any animal you see untill you find ravine with cave connected
>use stone tools to get iron for 2 pickaxes and maybe iron armor set
>stone axe has damage of diamond sword so you dont need anythig else
>explore caves for 0.5 to 1 hour
>leave with diamond tool set, 2 diamonds for enchanting table and rest used for armor and obsi for portal
>in nether you raind bastions/fortress for diamonds and netherite
Up untill nether step it takes 1.5h. There is no progression, any tool i havent mention is pointless, if you cant make it you're a underage, retarded or dont play games. Friends think I use xray whenever we start a server like once every year.

>>713377162
Fun.

>>713379962
>getting elytras should be easier than using horses
The saddle being craftable is the only good change they made since Notch left

>>713377162
Vore mods

>>713361612 (OP)
I dropped this shit after they made the brilliant decision to flood every single cave below sea level. You know, just like real caves! That's what I want in my cave exploring game, half the caves to be inaccessible. Oh, and as an added fuck you, they made diamonds spawn more frequently in flooded caves. Go fuck yourselves. The terrain generation is also fucked up, with random ass folds in the ground that look unnatural as fuck, and they're everywhere.

>>713361612 (OP)
The cave update ruined the progression system. Those soulless big ass caves give you diamonds immediately. If you really want you can have a full diamond set in 20 minutes or less.

>>713385580
more like
>get iron set
>get a stack of food and firework rockets
>rush to the end because the dragon is easy to kill on iron
>find end cities for elytras and diamond tools that already come with end-game enchantments
>anvil them together and get perfectly enchanted gear without even needing to farm villager books, even though that is an option
>can also build enderman exp farm to generate 2000 levels an hour

>>713388548
you could get full diamond in 20 minutes since survival mode, you just dig straight down