yeah why tho?

I didn't pay $80 + tax to block

>>713441327 (OP)
>this game is popular
>it has a specific mechanic/feature
>players loved it, indie devs loved it, AAA devs loved it
>fast-forward five years
>now we have more games with that mechanic/feature
You don't need 9 minutes to explain this shit.

>>713441327 (OP)
because its fun

>>713441327 (OP)
Is that a fucking defensive mechanic? Nooooo

Because it's fucking fun

>>713441327 (OP)
it's a 1-dimentional mechanic that's easy for developers to implement and players to use, it's perfect

>>713441327 (OP)
Because players like buttons that allow them to have free perfect defense at all times just by memorising some timings.

>>713441782
Eight minutes and thirty seconds of the video is an advertisement for Dollar Shave Club.

From is the Apple of video games.
They innovate and every single company (Ubisoft, Nintendo, Id software, Sony, etc.) rushes to copy them

Because, while everyone likes to mash buttons to hit enemies, what's actually far more interesting, complex and sometimes gameplay-defining are the defensive mechanics.
Parrying is a very fun and rewarding mechanic (if implemented well) that isn't your usual dodge-roll. So developers capitalize on this by focusing heavily on this mechanic.
Or, in other words, basically >>713442039

sekiro and its consequences

It's 100% better than rollslop.

>>713441327 (OP)
I love this trend of youtube/twitch vidya grifters trying to figure out how to sour public opinion on parrying in games because they're really bad at it. But their brands are kind of in the manosphere and they HAVE to like the same games their audience does or they'll collapse in viewership. So they want to chicken out from playing parry heavy games, but their audience won't let them, so they're desperately trying to spin some kind of narrative against parrying that frees them from games that have it, but also doesn't make them look like a bitch for backing down.

>>713442303
They stole it from Dante and William though.

It's an easy way to make low skill players feel like they're doing cool shit

>>713442641
The guy in the thumbnail doesn't hate parryslop though. But yeah journalists never liked parryslop since day 1. Sekiro has lower metascore than Dark Souls 2.

It's a shortcut for easy dopamine released that don't really demand much effort from developers

I hate parries for ruining the Ys series.

>>713443215
Ys Seven is so braindead easy that I never touched any of the other 3D games
Can't really blame parries for that

>>713441327 (OP)
ROYAL GUARD
more games should have royal guard

>>713443354
It got worse after seven because they increased the invulnerability window and also made it so dodges cause invulnerability, and you can activate a dodge and chain it into multiple parries and flash dodges without risk of taking damage.

>>713441782
you dont need sure but its not like it hurts to analyse why a certain mechanic or idea works.

His best point in the video comes in that parrying is inherently a way to defensively engage during combat. Things like rolling or shielding actively disengage you from combat, but not parrying. I think thats an interesting way to think of it.

>>713441782
Um my ad revenue bro??

>>713441327 (OP)
Defense/blocking is a passive feature
Parrying makes blocking into an active feature
Active features are fun and the entire point of video games
How mind boggling, better make a video essay about this

>>713444292
Parrying ends up less engaging in the end, most parry games can be played without even touching the movement stick it's embarrassing

>>713444532
>what is aoe/environmental damage?

>parries on some games
good
>parries in every single fucking video game no matter if it fits its gameplay or genre
bad

>>713444309
So you're saying rhythm games are the only true video game genre?

>>713442303
So overrated garbage only retards buy? Yeah, sounds like From alright.

>>713444949
Filtered hard

>>713441782
i do not love it thoever..

>>713441327 (OP)
Why do people like to.... interact with combat?
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>713445185
Timing is the lowest form of interaction

Devs can't put the work into countering like Batman Arkham city and people bitch about dodging. This is the easiest non-fix to the issue.

>>713445312
>Bam Ham
>work
lol

>>713444953
To be fair, only sekiro made parry like a rhythm game.

The one thing I'm getting sick of is all the poise/break gauges or whatever.
It seems like every other game has that shit these days.

>>713445108
fucked hard (in the ass[by my demolition of your fave game style])

>>713441841
>NOOOO DODGE ROLLING
>NOOOO BLOCKING
>NOOOO PARRYING
At this point I'm convinced that people just want to mash buttons with no thought process or meaningful interaction.

>>713445706
How about simply avoiding enemy attacks instead of pressing the instant defense button?

>>713445706
Go 1CC final fight and get back to me

>>713445560
sekiro is to blame for all of this. you all sucked it off too hard. i blame this board.

>>713441327 (OP)
Not as popular as Remilk strategy, all companies know is how to remilk

>>713441327 (OP)
I thought this venture went bankrupt because it turns out having all of this dead weight when people only go to you for one guy actually was a bad thing and not just The Escapist being meanies

>>713446003
What the fuck are you talking about?

>>713441327 (OP)

>>713445804
>Spacing slop

>>713445362
Animation takes work, yeah.

>>713446070
This is a stealth Yahtzee thread

>>713446102
I find it difficult to relate to people who think this game is especially good

>>713445804
So every enemy needs to be as slow and clumsy as your drunk father trying to beat you with a belt in order to give you time to casually walk out of the way? Got it. Shit game btw.

>>713446217
It seems to be so stealthy that everyone just talked about the actual topic instead

>>713441327 (OP)
Video games, faggot, VIDEO GAMES!

>>713446261
Nah every enemy needs to track you 360 degrees across the entire arena to the point where you might as well stand still the entire fight and just press the invincibility button when asked

>>713446261
Play Monster Hunter before talking like a retard

>>713441327 (OP)
because it's really simple to implement and saves you from having to come up with deeper gameplay

>>713446419
>NOOOO WHY IS THE ENEMY AIMING FOR ME INSTEAD OF THE FLOOR 4 MILES AWAY FROM ME

>>713446501
Doesn't that have several weapons with dodges and parries

>>713441327 (OP)
>>713441782
Yahtzee and Ashens both make me uncomfortable because they're 40+ year old men who still use the phrase girlfriend constantly

>>713446560
>aiming

>>713446602
Only in modern MH. You also can't spam.

>>713446689
Funnily enough, ER bosses are killed optimally with positional spacing. You just posted some jank that doesn't reflect how the game is supposed to work. The guy in the webm could have quite literally ran away from that.

>>713446609
Thought this was an odd post but then I remembered how creepy sexpests in Thailand are with their "girlfriends"

>>713446221
must be hard being a retard eh?

>>713447280
idk it just feels odd to me that they're 40+ and the way they say it almost comes off like they're bragging, just feels weird and sad, I think yahtzee has gotten married since the last time I watched him but ashens still does it

>>713441327 (OP)
Literally who

>>713441782
9 minutes is surprisingly short for videos like these

Because sekiro based itself around spamming parries while also making it highly accessible so even your grandma can hit a parry
It made money so every AAA dev wanted to do the same thing
No need to make a video

>>713446991
>ER bosses are killed optimally with positional spacing

>>713446365
kill yourself

>>713449646
I miss dark souls 1 and 2 combat

>>713441782
>gamers like beer and titties
>hardly any games come with beer and titties
What's the deal, huh?

>>713449646
I will never understand this modded bait. You can literally see him cancelling the end of animations that he is supposed to have

>>713446609
Yahtzee is married
>>713448747
Referring to someone you're dating as a girlfriend only comes across as bragging if you're a KHHV

ac 1 had it first and it was so satisfying

>>713445804
I once watched someone beat the nameless king fight with no armor, no dodging, no running, and it was the lamest shit I've ever seen. technically impressive, visually boring. Parries and other timing based defensive systems are more visually spectacular, and pressing buttons is more fun than just holding a direction.

>>713441327 (OP)
The first generation of internet 'celebrities' are hitting middle age and realising they've wasted their lives on a frivolous and childish pursuit that has been completely hollowed out in the name of corporate greed and profit.
You hate to see it but it is what it is. Some of them should be fairly wealthy, at least.
I still watch Yahtzee from time to time

>>713449646
For me its 1:16 where there is a massive opening to attack because he cancels the light sword mid-swing instead of just following through and hitting you

>>713451628
>that has been completely hollowed out in the name of corporate greed and profit.
do people think that video games were niche and indie in the 80's or something? video games have been corporate and a business and mainly about profit longer than you've been alive.

>>713441327 (OP)
1. It dumbs down the gameplay, when defense turns into "okay just time this button with this attack" the player is left with very little to think about, in most cases
2. It gives an inflated sense of skill.

While someone could argue that parries are more skillful than blocking, there really aren't that many games that were very "block" focused before. Even in older souls games where blocking was very good, there were still a lot of attacks that are intended to be rolled or enemies that do different types of damage that your shield couldn't full prevent. Most games that have blocking also make dodging viable and necessary so this made up game where all you did was block and how parrying is an upgrade is wrong. Parry mechanics like sekiro just allow the player to win without having to think hard about offense or defense. Yes, in sekiro you do need to attack to stop enemies posture from going down but there is no depth to it. The parry mechanic is the only thing that makes people think the combat is "good" or "difficult" but when you break it down it makes defense AND offense very basic and boring, timing button presses really well in any of these action games doesn't even come close to the level of actual rhythm games on high difficulties.

Also parries are not new but they've been transformed. Before, a lot of games did have parry mechanics but those mechanics had followups that would give a reward and that would stop it from being some rhythm game type mechanic, they might've also had much tighter windows, or served some other purpose. These were mechanics that existed to compliment the rest of the gameplay rather than sitting there and just trying to parry every attack to win.

>>713452613
so dodge roll is actually worse just according to your two points, especially since in most games, you have more iframe rolling than parrying
so parry is actually more skill expression for the user
okay

I just think they are kinda one dimensional

>>713441327 (OP)
There are only so many ways to design melee combat gameplay.

>>713451896
>do people think that video games were niche and indie in the 80's or something?
They might as well been given how much worse it’s gotten

>>713441327 (OP)
Sekiro popularised it. It’s that simple. Plus, there’s a belief that parrying is more satisfying than dodging.


What I don’t understand is why people pretend parrying is a new feature in games. Some of the earliest action games and ARPGs had parrying.

>>713452717
You're making up a lot of assumptions and misinterpreting what I said in order to come to that conclusion.

Retard

>>713445804
Anon, it's all a sliding scale of risk and reward. Spacing, dodging, guarding and parry are all meant to work together. Giving the player more mechanics is the definition of a video game. One thing is if the mechanic is not implemented well but having some grievance with any of them by virtue of existing is the height of stupidity. Stop getting all your opinions from braindead e-celebs, stupid fucking zoomer.

>>713441327 (OP)
I honestly don't mind it in sword and board games but when it infected Metroid I had (and still have) a fit

>>713441327 (OP)
Blocking is lame.
Blocking but your flail your shield or sword at something?
That is based.

People also think that timing button presses on long combos is engaging and dynamic gameplay.
Sekiro and Lies of P both do this, where the point is to play pattycake with a boss and constantly keep up the rhythm of parrying on the correct beat.
It is like Crypt of the Necrodancer but less unique.

cant bring myself to play new fromsoft games
only souls game I beat was ds1 and thats a fuckin great game

>>713452717
Rolling and blocking are neutral defenses, that don't help the player, but don't hinder them either.
Parrying in what is probably a majority of games coming out now, ticks an invisible counter until you have a posture break that lets you do tons of damage. It is actively advantageous.
This makes it so in games where parries are easily spammed, that not parrying is a total negative on your effectiveness in a way that doesn't make parries feel like a cool skill ceiling to climb to, but just the standard mechanic.

>>713451896
There are degrees to this stuff, though. C'mon you're just being disingenuous at this point, Anon.

Parries are secretly QTEs
Gamers love QTEs
Rooolling is not a QTE. it's exploiting the lame invulnerability of iframes. "La la u can't hit me i'm in muh iframe"

>>713441327 (OP)
Timing is inherently satisfying to the point there's an entire genre that is literally just that, timing is also an inherent quality to action games and it's very easy to make a satisfying parry mechanic on the surface without putting too much effort into anything else regarding the combat, because even if it's badly implemented mechanically people will generally think it's cool anyway.
It may also be a symptom of the fact every other avenue of difficulty and challenge is constantly being targeted from all angles with ignorant claims of "unfairness" leading them to have to double down on a specific facet, what Souls games as a whole have built an identity on which is ironic when their best aspects and crucial design elements are what people call "unfair". It's not unlike how modern fighting games have came about in their race to make everything clear and """accessible""" without sacrificing the image of depth, leading to a constant barrage of decisions that largely only have right or wrong answers giving that sense of gambling, because giving players an array of "good enough" options they need to master might make them have to think too much.
The pendulum may swing back, some people are clearly trying to make it happen, but the issue is that if it does not only will the positives of parrying systems potentially be dumped entirely, will anyone have any real understanding of combat mechanics to fill the void? That Yahtzee video itself tries to talk about how a game could be designed around stunlocking enemies as its core combat approach instead of parrying as an example of a change-up, completely ignorant of how that's one of the most constant mechanics in videogame combat since forever, while also being a massive component of a game he wrote off and lied about so hard I still doubt he actually played it. A game which also happened to have one of if not the best parry systems ever made.
>captcha: 4HAGS0

>>713444292
>>713444532
games that puts emphasis on spacing is more interesting, but I like how parrying encourages you to expose yourself to danger. it shouldn't be an unlimited get out of jail free card though

Because they've lost touch with the arcade roots of game design.

>>713452613
The thing about the "you just win everything if you parry" concern is that it always seems just a little disingenuous, because even in the very, very few games that actually do let you parry everything, it's generally not the best option compared to strong positioning letting you punish far more heavily. Even in Sekiro it is better to dodge and punish whenever you get the opportunity because not only does it do more health damage with the same Posture damage you can more easily get into positions where you can hit multiple times, all before you force them into blocking and can then deflect them further. Parry can act as a baseline bare minimum approach but hardly any games are ever truly defined by that despite how many people approach in that matter, but ultimately that is the biggest issue facing all these games: the unwillingness to engage with whatever it is on all levels despite you know, literally playing a videogame designed to be a challenge you learn and overcome for fun and engagement.

>>713452613
In truth its just that there is just some gamers that gets by on immediate responses and muscle memorization and other that get by on prediction and strategizing.
Both are viable as ways to enjoy games, but both do not enjoy the others way of engaging with said games and often are unable to perceive the enjoyment the other side gets by playing their way.
its like if someone said "Shooters' aren't real games" or "RPGs" aren't real games. Both sound asinine and we have the social understanding in place yo make sure people understand that saying those kinds of things sound asinine. We just don't have that cultural understanding for mechanical options like parrying and so people will get really defensive till its culturally resolves as viable but a game isn't intrinsically worse for tot having one.

>>713459794
>Because they've lost touch with the arcade roots of game design.
uuuuuuuuh

>>713452613
Oh and also
>there really aren't that many games that were very "block" focused before. Even in older souls games where blocking was very good, there were still a lot of attacks that are intended to be rolled or enemies that do different types of damage
Enemies having ways around block in this example wouldn't stop a game being block focused, if anything it's arguably necessary for it and puts more focus on blocking as an important decision. Sekiro's got plenty of ways around just deflecting be it attack timing, properties or elements, and people call Death Stranding a walking sim when walking is one of the main challenges and is far more involved than other games you walk in due to how balance shifting etc. works. The only reason it's hard to really pin down a game being "block focused" is because it's such a ubiquitous defensive option acting as an enabler for several other decisions, one step below spacing itself.

>>713459847
>Even in Sekiro it is better to dodge and punish whenever you get the opportunity because not only does it do more health damage with the same Posture damage you can more easily get into positions where you can hit multiple times
This is not true against the majority of bosses. It's only beast enemies where parrying is worse because the game makes it pretty clear that deflecting their attacks sucks ass because it puts you into an extended recovery animation after deflect and the game points out to you that beasts take a lot more damage from fire and such but there aren't as many beasts as there are humans. Spirits can't even be damaged without being in a limited buff state.
The fact is in most cases in sekiro, you will be parrying multiple attacks in a row which stack up posture when parried while trying to dodge and punish will do a lot less for you in the majority of cases. It's definitely rare to be able to get multiple hits on an enemy after dodging because once enemies get hit, they'll go to a semi-"neutral" state and this very same state is achieved after parrying multiple attacks then attacking.

The only none-beast boss that actually wants you to do more than parry > attack loops is Owl because he has multiple moves that you don't want to parry and he moves around quite a lot. He's the best boss but he is the exception

>>713459989
No one is saying you can't enjoy parry mechanics but the use of the word "inflated" was intentional. It's not that parrying doesn't take skill but it makes people believe that they have much higher skill than they really do when rote memorization is one of the easiest and simplest "skill" to learn in a video game right next to "reactions".

This is why people who have spent a lot of time playing real action games, which ask the player to not just have reactions and to learn enemy patterns but it asks you to take initiative and to come up with and learn strategies to deal with situations and to do so on the fly. These newer games that have a focus on parry take away strategy when the majority of them dumb down the game to this "your turn my turn" style of defense = parry and then after the enemies attacks are over it's your turn and you do your attacks which always start off in the same position until the enemy does an action.

Movement and spacing become a lost art. Timing becomes warped into a rhythm game.

>>713441327 (OP)
It's the ultimate 'git gud' mechanic. Fights can be easily designed around it and it makes people feel like they are amazing if they are good at it. If you aren't you get fucked and the games become unwinnable as a consequence. What bothers me is when games also have dodges but the dodges are strictly worse, which makes it pointless to even have dodges.

This is possibly the worst video on youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR2vQO_BHC0

>>713446689
Look at that rollspam. What a scrub lmao

>>713460019
reminder

>>713463526

>>713458237
I knew a retard will pop up eventually. They always do. kys /v/ fags

>>713461873
No, it's true for humans as well to a lesser extent. They often have more elaborate attack strings but that doesn't change that you want to dodge and punish the end, or in some cases the middle, for example Genichiro's flurry has a big opening behind him you can take advantage of. The extended deflect is quite rare but present on human and deflect-focused bosses as well, like Owl and Monk. Beasts don't explicitly take more damage from fire, there are specific red-eyed enemies (which can be beastlike with everyone's favourite ogre and humanoid like the Iai miniboss) that get a special stagger if you hit them with fire damage, separate to the stagger from inflicting burn which happens to all enemies including humans. The rate of infliction is on a per enemy basis, and fire is actually the most absurdly powerful tool in the game in almost every fight, even against some that are more resistant like Owl again, with one reason being the free on demand damage window where offense begets offense. And one of the main ways you land Flame Vent is by dodging and punishing. I'm not sure why you brought up spirits, they can be damaged without the buff and there's other non-buff tools for doing good damage to them but that's another case where deflecting isn't the end all be all.
>in most cases in sekiro, you will be parrying multiple attacks in a row which stack up posture
Of course, I didn't say otherwise. But every attack string has a different number of hits with an end, and it is very easy to do much more health and Posture damage in one attack than in one or two deflects. Playing the game as an R1/L1 simulator is the absolute bare minimum understanding of the game and thinking that there isn't more than a few strong opportunities to use your other tools in just about every fight is just letting mass assumptions guide you rather than what the game itself is floating.
Anyway Sekiro is an example of that overall criticism.

For me it was Yahtzee seething and boiling at Demon's, then when Dark got popular suddenly he's really into it

>>713460019
>every fighting game was SF3

>>713460019
>>713463526
sekiro parry
>30 frame window
>universal input
>failed timing becomes a block
third strike parry
>5-10 frames
>directional input matching the attack
>failed input becomes eating shit
very comparable.

Yahtzee's a cunt

because it's fun

>hit button to have fun

>>713441327 (OP)
>parry
>sliding
>grapple hook
>mounting ledges

why re-invent the wheel when a good idea is already out there

>>713461873
>>713463863
Also since it hit the limit and I feel like adding it now, aside from simply punishing enemies on their attack startup rather than forcing them to block every time from hitting too fast, enemies and bosses cannot block from behind and you can land several hits in a row on them as they try to turn around. There's a lot of combos, cheese strats and one of the most powerful yet underrated prosthetics is designed around taking advantage of this.

>>713441327 (OP)
A better question?
Why every youtuber has an avatar ?

>>713463108
>It's the ultimate 'git gud' mechanic.
t. has never played a hard action game in his life

>>713464981
To be fair he's the guy who started this shit.

>>713463917
>Fellates Elden Ring so much he creates a separate Extra Punctuation to praise it's open world
>Years later: Oh I never finished it

>watch one of his let's drown out
>it's for symphony
>an absurdly easy game, even on its "hard mode"
>he dies constantly
>doesn't know anything about the game
>whinges that the audience will make fun of him

guitar hero is basically just parrying

>>713441327 (OP)
because it feels satisfying

>>713465614
Lemme guess, Ninja Gaiden 2?
A game that is called hard by more people than ever played it?
Whose difficulty is more often in spamming enemies in cramped arenas over actually clever game design?

>>713441327 (OP)
Because it's fucking cool. Instead of just blocking or even dodging, you're doing skilled ass perfect moment movement to divert the incoming blow.
Every blade martial art has a concept like it, and it's always badass.

>>713467741
Instead of attempting to prove me wrong you bring up a strawman and go on a random tangent. Really says a lot about you.

>>713467741
>ninja gaiden 2
>good
Are you right in the head?

>>713467861
What exciting game did you vaguepost about instead?

I have never dropped a game faster than when I was forced to slow-mo parry while flying a fucking dragon.

Doom The Dark Ages was made for Hugo Martin's child-age son and it shows.

>>713467942
You've never played a hard action game and your attempts at deflecting that only prove me right

>>713467440
I just remember him becoming absolutely incensed that Gabe didn't share his thoughts on Bbioshock Infinite.

>nanoseconds since /v/ got filtered by doom

>ending of the chulip drown out
>gabe correctly states yahtzee hasn't had demons considering he's rich and famous and well liked
>yahtzee breaks down
lmao

>>713468171
If you had a point you'd have said it already.

>>713441327 (OP)
>stupid youtube notices a trend / pattern
>frames trend as bad because he recognized such trend

Im over the youtube formula.

>>713441327 (OP)
>yeah why tho?
Because parrying/perfect guards as a baseline defensive option are good. Iframe dodges are not.

>someone asks a question
>Gabe: Well....
>Yahtzee: OH MY GOD GABE STOP WAFFLING!!

>>713468396
See >>713465614

>>713468560
Mechanically speaking, there is literally no difference between dodges and parrying. The feel of them is different but they are the exact same thing mechanically. Press button at correct time, avoid damage. Only when combined with other things does it become a different story.

>>713441327 (OP)
>>713452613
>>713468560
Parrying is just nu-iframes, they do the same thing.

>>713468736
Will you stop being a faggot and just name a game. Otherwise you're the fag here, not him.

>>713441327 (OP)
Once something becomes popular it becomes "overused" and people start to dislike it purely out of spite

>>713468836
>Parrying is just nu-iframes, they do the same thing.
No, you fucking idiot. Parries are not iframes.

>nu-iframes
The shit I read here

>>713468816
>Mechanically speaking, there is literally no difference between dodges and parrying.
Dodges make your character literally invulnerable and allow you to reposition. Parries allow you to stop an enemy attack and sometimes stagger them if you're facing the right direction, and if the move is parryable. Saying they're the same because they avoid damage is like saying that running away or blocking with a big shield are also the same because you can use them to avoid damage. Only someone impossibly fucking retarded would pretend they're mechanically similar.

>>713465614
>>713468171
You literally cannot substantiate your claim.

Steller Blade is the first parryslop Ive liked

>>713469034
>>713469176
>Push the button at the right time to magically take no damage
They are the same thing. Rollslop sometimes gives you special bonuses too or lets you roll in place.

>>713441327 (OP)
even nortubel has them

>>713469176
They are literally the same at mechanical level mate.
You press button at the correct timing, you avoid damage. That isn't the same as blocking where you hold down to avoid damage. Usually both are present but blocking consumes some form of resource, or isn't capable of entirely nullifying damage, or both, as a trade off. But a parry is a pure "press button, avoid damage" mechanic.
That is the exact same as a dodge.
Also you're too caught up in Souls. Not every dodge has iframes in all directions, just like not every parry needs you to face the enemy. Those are variations of the core principle.

>>713443215
Falcom are the kings of taking as many ideas as they can from other games, stuffing them into their own, and just praying it works out...
The "trails" games are even worse for this.

Never liked turn based games where the enemies get free hits on you.

>>713441327 (OP)
His extra punctuation vids were always better than his main ones.

>>713469246
SB's a good example because it also forces you to dodge instead of letting you parry everything (both single press and directional in two directions) and gives you two separate counter attacks for both a perfect parry and a perfect dodge (not the directional ones though). And said counters can then be extended for another hit after, and can work in conjunction with both your special resource meters (beta energy and burst energy)
So in any given fight you've got a lot of variety on what to do and how things play out.

>>713469609
It is better to hear him actually try and talk a point rather than just bitch about a game for cheap laughs but I still don't really get the impression he actually understands much of what he's on about,

It's satisfying.

>>713442473
This. Rolling around on the floor is weird and gay.

>>713444292
It goes both ways desu. Parrying in parry games is sometimes safer than actually attacking. It is smart to just wait and parry until a boss is staggerable sometimes. You can't stay on the defensive and roll spam in a rollslop game to beat a boss.
Ideally I think you should be able to dodge and have some obvious openings midcombo. No rolling 20 times before you can attack and no parry spam until the boss is staggerable for a fatal atack

All action games purely focused around playing reactively to enemy attacks are dogshit.

>>713442303
Fromsoft only made one parry game, Sekiro.

In all others parrying is completely optional and often not even optimal.

>>713469306
>enemy hits you with an attack that can't be parried
Now what?

>>713469409
>They are literally the same at mechanical level mate.
They're literally aren't at a mechanical level, you retarded shitposting faggot. Do you know what iframes actually are?
>You press button at the correct timing, you avoid damage. That isn't the same as blocking where you hold down to avoid damage.
Wrong again. I can press guard right before an attack connects and avoid damage.
>Also you're too caught up in Souls. Not every dodge has iframes in all directions
I said iframe dodges. You don't get to put words in my mouth or move the goalposts because you're a retard that's angry that I know how game mechanics work and you don't.

>>713443354
Ys Seven is absolute kino, tastelet

>open worlds used to be uncommon and added some interesting mechanical implications
>every games starts to add open world
>flaws become apparent and become become bored of it
>parries used to be uncommon and added some interesting mechanical implications
>

>>713471245
>enemy hits you with an attack that is longer than your iframes
Now what?

>>713471860
>that is longer than your iframes
You mistimed. The iframes still work. Iframes are iframes. They always make you invincible. But not all moves can be parried.

>>713472041
This is more nonsense. If a move lasts longer than your iframe dodge you can't dodge it. They are the same system.

>>713472314
>If a move lasts longer than your iframe dodge you can't dodge it.
Show examples. You're making up hypotheticals that don't exist.

>>713471245
>They're literally aren't at a mechanical level, you retarded shitposting faggot. Do you know what iframes actually are?
Yes they are. Iframes are literally irrelevant you worthless pedant. The core mechanic is "press button avoid damage", it is literally the same thing. You can sit there and try and change it and it won't. Face reality
>Wrong again. I can press guard right before an attack connects and avoid damage.
Congrats you just parried. And most action games if not all even give you bonuses for parrying in exactly that way. That's what a parry is. It's what it is in.
>I said iframe dodges. You don't get to put words in my mouth or move the goalposts because you're a retard that's angry that I know how game mechanics work and you don't.
Aww, poor little faggot is getting really mad so he's throwing out arguments he doesn't understand
Tell me, exactly and precisely, how pressing a button and avoiding damage is any different mechanically? No "but it uses iframes" or "but I have to face the enemy". Press button. Avoid damage. How is that different.
Or better yet, kill yourself.

>>713472440
Elden Ring Dragon Fire

>>713472640
>The core mechanic is
Objectively wrong. If you don't understand what they're doing on a mechanical level, then don't try talking about mechanics. You're a fucking retard, like most of the retards who try arguing about game design. You're objectively wrong. There's no two ways around it. If you want to admit to being a dumb fuck and say "I'm sorry I'm a fucking retard but what I meant to say was "Effectively they're the same thing, not mechanically" then we can pretend your opinions matter.

>>713444292
>Things like rolling or shielding actively disengage you from combat
No they don't. They're positional mechanics, and whether you actually use them as such or just disengage from combat like a retard is what distinguishes someone who's actually good at the game. Even the potential cope of "well Parries are still much more combat-aligned because they don't allow for such cowardice" is something heavily dependent on the game and ultimately still something you can semi-spam while walking back in order to be safe in a lot of them.

>>713472819
You can iframe through dragon fire.
>But what if I roll INTO it while it's still going!
You can iframe through dragonfire and avoid damage. Dragonfire can not bypass iframes. Parries, however, can absolutely not mitigate damage from dragonfire. Therefore iframes are not the same as parries. Try again.

>>713473025
If you get caught by the flame and try to roll out from the middle, you're going to get hit, because the flame lasts longer than the i-frames of any roll.

>>713472905
No, mechanically they are the same thing.
The mechanics, you worthless faggot, at the core, is press button, avoid damage. That is the mechanic. You're the one complicating by then going into FURTHER DETAIL ON INDIVIDUAL MECHANICS OF INDIVIDUAL GAMES YOU WORTHLESS FAGGOT
Like another anon has pointed out, not all dodging has iframes. Not all iframe dodges have the same iframe windows. Not all iframe dodges even allow you dodge all attacks because some games have attacks built to fuck your iframes specifically by either have a hitbox that lasts longer than your iframes or having multiple hits of a combo that are faster than you can recover and then dodge again.
And likewise, not all parrying has perfect parry windows (the equivalent of iframe dodging), not all games even have parry at all as a separate mechanic from just guarding at the right time to conserve whatever resource requires guarding, not all games even have blocking at all.
What your worthless faggot ass cannot cope about is that you can strip down a "mechanic" to it's bare fucking essential. And when analyzing a mechanic across the fucking immense amount of vidya in existence you have to.
So, dodging is press button avoid damage.
Parry is press button avoid damage.
They are the same mechanically. You press button, you avoid damage. Cope about it. Last (you).

>>713473214
Iframes work on dragonfire. You doing mental dynastics or trying to come up with situations where not being in iframes somehow counts as using iframes won't change that. No one has argued that iframes are a permanent invincibility button.

>>713441327 (OP)
looking at Doom - the parryslop ages : they don't.

>>713473373
>No, mechanically they are the same thing.
Wrong. Mechanically one works by removing the player hitbox and the other doesn't. Mechanically, they are literally different. You being an angry retard and trying to redefine words won't change that.

>>713441841
this isn't the problem. the problem is the game usually forces you to use the mechanics, turning a game from free form to a script. you are allowed to hit two times before waiting for the enemy to do something.
this is soulslikes now.

Why do enemies have 180-360 degree tracking on specific attacks? force you to use dodge/guard. positioning is meaningless. Positioning was high skill play in DS1/bloodborne(haven't played ds2)

>>713473519
>>If a move lasts longer than your iframe dodge you can't dodge it.
>Show examples. You're making up hypotheticals that don't exist.
This is what I was replying to.
An attack that outlasted the i-frames of a roll.

parries are responsible for the most iconic moments in all of video games

parries exist because devs are too lazy to implement humanoid enemies that don't have hyperarmor

every humanoid fight where your opponent can poise through your attacks and they have a posture bar for you to deplete is the most unimaginative boring shit ever

>>713473748
>Games then
>games now

>>713441327 (OP)
As with basically all questions like these about common/overused game mechanics
If a game didn't have them people would meme on it and call it shit

>>713474184
>then games, then
>then games, now

>>713474184
Is this bait? Tekken 3 (1997) was as defensive as Tekken 7 except with even fewer combo mechanics, juggles and whatnot.

Parrying in Sekiro is a core part of the combat and as such is a lot more forgiving. All these other parryslop games have to be a large part of the combat as well but often have it be incredibly strict which is especially shit if there are latency issues with the display in which case ANY discrepancy can kill you. I think this is why people are beginning to sour on it.

Action games in general have been diluted with the idea of "any action which has the potential of making the player feel bad is bad" every action should have a 'perfect', easy to intuit response otherwise its bad design now.

General player bases don't want to think about what they could've done differently to help an attack connect, they want an immediate response available to them. its a matter of "oh i just need to press the button" rather than actually engaging with the game.

Why is he wearing a cowboy hat now? Is it because he lives in the states?

>>713441327 (OP)
Imagine gacha but you win by pressing a button at the right moment.

>>713473719
>An attack that outlasted the i-frames of a roll.
>dragonfire starts
>move away and roll in that direction
>iframes still work on fire that touches you
>no damage
You're trying to argue that if you roll INTO an attack it'll outlast your rolls. That's retarded. Iframes work on dragonfire, period. During iframes, dragonfire can not hurt you. This does not apply to any sort of parry, because they aren't fundamentally and mechanically not the same, and only profoundly retarded people pretend they are.

>>713473748
>>713474317
Parries are why 3S is a dogshit game. The people who seal clap the most at this are retards because they don't understand how many parry OS's there are or just how lenient normal parries are. They don't understand how retarded it is to have a mechanic that makes projectiles near useless and how parrying almost any move into a full combo really fucks up neutral

>>713441327 (OP)
people LOVE doing toddler tier shit and somehow be perceived as skillful for it.
the colour coded parry systems of today's games require less cognitive ability than pic related, but for some reason everyone has deluded themselves into thinking it's peak game design and adds depth (how can a so centralizing mechanic that becomes the perfect answer to everything be "deep"?

>>713464981
>Why every YouTuber has an avatar?
Why every ESL faggot talks wrong?

>>713469609
>better
>they're just him seething in a slower voice about games that dare to be complex or demand you use your brain
For someone that claims to love point and click adventures he sure is retarded
Every time he claims he likes difficulty and challenge, he then says "until it starts becoming a chore", as in, until the game ACTUALLY challenges him

>>713471351
Aren't those two the gods of the universe? What are they doing having a bath

>>713441327 (OP)
modern day QTE. for the vast majority of devs all challenge and engagement in gameplay is replaced by tapping the block button when the enemy's weapon flashes red or yellow or whatever. its a garbage mechanic in 9.9/10 cases.

>>713445261
(you)

>>713474184
>fighting game community postures itself as a community of badasses that don't give a fuck bro
>they bow down to corporations
>they bow down to sponsors
>they ban players for any reason
I could go on but lmfao

>>713444292
But it's not really like that at all, because when your combat system focuses on parries then you implicitly encourage the player to wait and do nothing but parry bait rather that actively engage the enemy. It's even worse if there's basically no safe way to attack other than punishing after parrying. It's kind of ass, waiting around for the enemy to do the thing so you can punish and actually fight effectively sucks.

>>713441327 (OP)
a good parry feels good

>>713475063
you don't play 3s
get on fightcade right now and lose 10-0 to me instead of posting stupid shit about games you don't play

Parry AND Riposte. A parry is just a block or deflection, the riposte is the counter attack.

>>713441327 (OP)
>game popularizes game mechanic
>it brings more sales
>more developers implement it
>WTF WHY IS [MECHANIC] MORE PREVALENT

did everyone forget what happened in 2010 when dark souls released on multiplats? every single fucking game had a stamina bar, it was obnoxious

>>713476369
>No counter-argument
Looks like I hit too close to home

>>713476369
>>713476462
stream it

>>713443480
Royalguard is parrying done right, because it doesn't penalize the boss for getting parried but it rewards the player for timing the blocks right (refills DT gauge and activates Royal Release). The problem with parrying in other games is that they ape Sekiro's gay ass posture system, so usually the most viable strategy in those games is to keep parrying until the boss drops down to their knees and you can perform a (canned animation) critical hit on them, and then it's rinse and repeat, it's fucking boring.

>>713476462
He posted a webm showing zoning/neutral. You're running your mouth and refuse to play against him despite claiming that the parry window being too generous makes the game braindead and projectiles worthless. Now nut up or shut up. Play him or stop pretending to understand the mechanics.

>>713476462
>dodging a direct challenge
what is with every fucking faggot on /v/
you retards always say the stupidest shit but then someone will actually put up a lobby and NO ONE JOINS and then you all keep posting stupid shit because you KNOW you would get fucking raped actually trying to play the game you speak with such authority on
the whole board is like this, for every game, even for single player games you faggots never post webms of your own gameplay
why is this board full of absolute retarded nigger faggot bitches who don't play video games and think they get to be smug pieces of shit while running away like a little BITCH?

>>713476521
The problem is that they try to copy Sekiro but only on a surface level without realizing that enemies have a ton of small variations in behaviors in attack patterns based on from which position they're parrying or the player is attacking.

>>713476369
>>713476462
Stream the fight. I don't know anything about fighting games so I dunno who's right in this case, but definitely stream it.

>>713476683
>even for single player games you faggots never post webms of your own gameplay
Happened to me yesterday for someone making a claim about something that can be shown within the first few minutes of a new game. If you're not autistic enough to make webms explicitly showing a point you're trying to make, then you're not autistic enough to argue game mechanics here.

>arena FPS thread
>RTS thread
>i ask generally "who wants to play"
>no replies

>>713476767
>>713476514
fightcade has live match spectating
of course he won't actually accept a real challenge so there's nothing to watch

>>713476683
>>713476805
Or at least find a vid showing the thing.

Honestly i'm impressed that video is under 10 minutes.

>>713464981
i think people get more invested in your content if you have a face to show. so if you don't want your irl mug on your videos you use an avatar.

>>713442473
This