>Game is called Lies of P
>Implying you'll have to lie your way through as one of the core mechanics
>It's just a shitty bloodborne clone with stolen animations
>10 hours of watching the gameplay and I never saw the main character lying to anyone, let alone talking
The devs are retarded grifters
op
md5: 22a5f8724657a26ea24b7015f71514ab
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>10 hours of watching the gameplay
>>713509769 (OP)>Game called Street Fighter>You can't punch pavement or buildings???I do not understand???
>>713509769 (OP)Anon a required lie is quite literally within the first half hour
This game makes you lie all the time and it makes you feel like a monster when you do tell the truth.
>>713510015You can punch people on a street. That counts
>>713510271How many of those are in the game? Do these choices have weight?
>>713510365Just play the game instead of watching 10 hours of gameplay you autistic homosexual.
>>713510271Who is he answering to?
>>713510465I wont be endorsing blatant plagiarism so no chance.
The title is still retarded though which irritates me even more
Is this bait? You have to lie to leave the first area of the game
Also
>Watching the gameplay
If this thread isn't bait, please consider kissing the business end of a shotgun, you're clearly too retarded to live.
>>713510365Like 14, 15. They determine what ending you can get, what quest rewards you can get and if you lie enough you can get a unique weapon.
>>713510472Robot security system I think. If you dont consider that a lie, there are later moments where you lie to actual people.
>>713510519>plagiarismThe story of Pinocchio is in the public domain.
>won't play it because title irritates mepeak autism. Take your meds dude.
>bloodborne clone
It's NOT. LoP is parryslop, blockingslop and rolling sucks ass in this game.
>>713509769 (OP)>10 hours of watching the gameplayOk. Whose yt playthrough did you watch?
>>713510749>The story of Pinocchio is in the public domain.The story is not the issue, it's the stolen animations galore, which makes it DarkSouls reskin
>>713510794>dark souls reskinNot even close. The game plays far better than any fromsoft game.
>>713510727I consider such instances inconsequential to warrant the title. It's just a barebones gimmick on top to disguies the copied homework and I am surprised not many call that out
>>713510952It's literally the theme of the game. How the ability to lie is uniquely human and how it's changing the mc to be more humanlike.
>>713510854>KOJIMA KOJIMA METAL GEAR KOJIMA SONS OF KOJIMA AHAHAH>THE GAME'S GLITCHED!! LOOK!>HUH? WHERE ARE YOU SUPPOSEDNTO GO??? *intently staring at chat*>I STOOD STILL AND STILL DIED? WHAHAHAHHAHAHAH *deflating clapping seal noises*
>IVE BEEN LIED TO, THERES NO LYING
kinda 4D intradimensional shit going on there
>>713511039Combat doesn't feel slow and janky due to there being no retardedly long delay between pressing the button and the animation happening. Also being able to both parry AND dodge is extremely nice.
>inb4 sekiroBoring slop with 0 variation.
>>713509769 (OP)>with stolen animationsqrd?
>>713510952You consider (one) instance of a multiple instance system to be representative of the entire mechanic even after I told you there are other instances later and thus label it as dismissable, even though you have no clue what they are; there is no point arguing with you further.
>>713511067It's only a theme on paper. The game itself is a parry slop with mute prothagonist lol. It should've been more fleshed out but devs are too busy riding Babazaki's dick and provide narrative through item description, even if the title begs to do otherwise
>>713511210Those games play nothing alike. OP is just an autist who hasn't even played the game.
If anything LoP is a straight upgrade from BB.
>>713511039Nta, but lies of piss has enough going on for it which justifies its place as a worthy souls-like. It has more to do with BB and sekiro, allowing you to be proactive in battles instead of being reactive all the time. The ability to assemble weapons to make right tool for the job is also a nice touch.
>>713511246It has less ambiguity than Dark Souls games lol. You literally don't know shit.
>>713511165P didn't lie enough. Devs did all the work
>>713511210DLC crocodile is Sulyvahn's beast 1 to 1 etc
>>713511334Care to show proof, and some more of those "etc" examples?
>>713511170>Also being able to both parry AND dodge is extremely niceYou can do it in Darks Souls though, no?
>>713511232You did say it, but I also trust what I saw. 10 hours of gameplay with no lies, which makes me think those are few and far between
>>713511382https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hwx1HI8qmA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S8t9DhAfuk
>>713511283It's only worthy because it technically competent. It feels more like a mod with reskins than an actual game, which can be enjoyable too, but shouldn't be advertized as standalone either
>>713511563Too bad it is and will keep going with the next game.
>>713511498thats not exactly one to one copy, similar at best, i think you're blind
>>713511419Parrying in DS is heavily gimped as it's only restricted to shields/bucklers and has fucky timing. It also trivializes nearly everything and quickly becomes OP once you git gud at parrying in DS.
>>713511694Similar at worst, copy at best. Animations are not similar, they are literally taken/stolen
>>713511776Nobody else is autistic enough to give a shit.
>>713511563>reskins>cant provide a single exampleKek
>>713511840Well devs are grifters but not 0 iq retarded to do it in a super obvious way but it catches my eye. Likes of you don't seem to care an eat any slop it seems
>>713511892>"hurr it's le slop durr"No arguments, just buzzwords.
>>713511823The gist of soulslike is learning attacks and patterns and overcoming them. The devs couldn't even come up with something unique in that regard which means they had 0 vision and 0 interesting ideas. Only rehash for commercial purposes.
Lies of P is a remake without being an official remake
>>713511892>The game is bad because I'm a schizophrenic retard
>>713511892>well they didnt really copy it but they sort of did in a way that I can only spot.>slopPeak schizo-babble. You cant show one concrete example of your claims. In fact, show me where Pinocchio's moveset is ripped from. Anything else and I accept your concession.
>>713509769 (OP)>watching gameplay for 10 hoursyou are a fag.
>>713511979>The gist of soulslike is learning attacks and patterns and overcoming them.You mean the exact thing that Lies of P does better than any game FromSoft ever made?
Also you've yet to point to anything stolen, the best you've been able to provide is too enemies that both have a big mouth (but totally different bodies and proportions) that both do a sorta similar attack where they open their mouth and charge at you.
>>713512062I did show above. If it isn't proving anything to you I am not gonna bother
>>713511979They took the best elements and combined them in a fun and engaging way while putting their own twist on the mechanics and pinocchio story, so yea, they did have interesting ideas which worked out very well.
But how the fuck would you know? You haven't even played it but watch 10 (ten) full hours of footage like the retard you are and then decided you're an expert on how the game feels and plays.
>>713512090>Also you've yet to point to anything stolenThat only shows that people who eat that slop are blind enough to notice obvious theft. I am not keeping a collection of videos you know and I am not autistic to google every instance I spotted just for you
>>713512130>jaw smash>tail swipe>long lungeNone of these were in the moveset of the beast. Concession accepted.
>>713512209Those were taken from other enemies. Long lunge is a rhino from ER btw and tail smash is any dragon like Midir etc
>>713512185If you were a fraction more autistic you'd be drooling all over your keyboard and only able to communicate through grunts.
>>713512264I'm gonna fucking lose it.
Do you think that two monsters having a tail that they use to attack means they have to use the same animation? Are you mentally ill?
>>713512306You ignored the rhino lunge
>>713509769 (OP)I really like how in this game where all you do is parrying enemies the parry feels like shit and enemy design is awful. Truly the best non fromsoft soulslike out there
>>713512264>Those were taken from other enemies. Long lunge is a rhino from ER btw and tail smash is any dragon like Midir etcholy retard moment
>>713512306>Do you think that two monsters having a tail that they use to attack means they have to use the same animation?Ask LoP devs who didn't even bother come up with original tail swipe
>>713512264Those are concepts, not stolen movesets. Glad to see you grasping at straws since you have no concreet proof. Concession accepted (again).
>>713512379I don't get how people say LoP feels bad to play when Dark Souls and ER feel even shittier.
>>713512342Oh I'm sorry.
Ahem.
I'm gonna fucking lose it.
Do you think that two monsters having a head that they do a frontal charge with means they have to use the same animation? Are you mentally ill?
>>713512449I think Korean femboys didn't program their own basic movesets and just stole them, concept or no concept. Just look at the lunge animation and you'll see.
You make it sound retarded, because it really is, and it irritates me, the insolence of not being able to uniquely execute a simple attack concept of their own
>>713511714More importantly, it is limited to humanoid enemies.
>>713512448I agree both are shit. At least in DS/DeS their main focus is not the combat
>>713512516Your brain is fucking soup.
>>713512516Yet you cannot showcase a single comparison.
>>713512453ask yourself why you think they stole those things and if they really did, and then take an iq test
>>713512516I'm getting boss baby vibes from this post.
>>713509769 (OP)>Game is called Lies of P>Implying you'll have to lie your way through as one of the core mechanicsAccording to fucking who? Disregarding how people have already mentioned that lying DOES actually play frequent importance in the game; how the are you going to say that the title implies literal gameplay mechanics? Imagine if I said
>Game is called Devil May Cry>implying you'll have to balance your emotional levels as one of the core mechanics
>>713512687I already answered above. Lack of vision + leeching
>>713512825>According to fucking who?According to common sense. Title should reflect the nature of the game, no?
>DMCPoetic title is more about the vibe, though I didn't play it so can't say for sure
>>713514501You didn't play any of the games you speak about. Go back to watching other people play, cuck.
>>713514501>Title should reflect the nature of the game, no?Nature of the game =/= Literal gameplay mechanics. I don't take away any gameplay meanings from the titles of Doom or Metal Gear Solid because they aren't there.
>>713514669I played all the souls games. I didn't play DMC but it was you who brought it up
>>713515005>>10 hours of watching the gameplay
>>713514956>Nature of the gameLies in Lies of P is neither nature nor mechanics. It's a mere side gimmick to add surface level difference.
No idea, no vision, just Pinoccio autism because it serves well for femboy protagonist
>>713510638Its Humanity that you acquire throughout the game that enables you to receive the golden lie weapon.
>>713515183It is a mechanic, and a timed one at that.
>>713515183P lying in Lies of P exists in the game. You can (wrongfully) dimish how important it is all you want but to deny that it doesn't exist is retarded. Nothing about the title is misleading.
>>713515368Mechanic that is so demanding on skill you have to play for 50 hours to master it. And there is also a DLC where you can prove yourself to be an expert liar
>>713515492I admit it exists but it does little to nothing. It's like calling Elden RIng "Tree Sentinels" just because such enemies exist in the game though who the fuck cares
>>713509769 (OP)>Game is called Lies of PCorrect.
>Implying you'll have to lie your way through as one of the core mechanicsYou need to lie to get the best ending.
>>t's just a shitty bloodborne clone with stolen animationsNope, and none of the animations are stolen.
>10 hours of watching--So you didn't play it.
Great thread. You're a retard.
>>713515542It's a core theme, exploring what it is to be human. Elden ring isn't much of a mechanic either but you don't screech about that for some reason. Curious.
>>713515687>Nope, and none of the animations are stolen.Bold claim
>>713515723>Elden ring isn't much of a mechanic either but you don't screech about that for some reasonIt doesn't have to be a mechanic, just a central theme. In any case it's Miyazaki's own creation, not someone's copied homework so I would be more lenient here
>>713516091Just like lying and humanity are themes in Lies of P. Glad we agree.
>>713516091>bold claimNot really ad you still haven't provided any proof aside from your schizo ramblings
>dude, using the concepts of a monster with a big maw who does a tail swipe is clear plagarism from souls games, even though monster hunter did them way first!Feel free to prove hour claims with a clear comparison. Your "magic eyes" don't cut it.
>>713509769 (OP)>10 hours of watching the gameplaydo you nigger faggots even PLAY video games?
>>713516297I would like the game called Lies of P to be about lying though, so I can lie to NPCs and manipulate. Too bad it's not the case, all I have to do just to choose between two given options from time to time
>>713516608>in would likeThat's on you, and has really nothing to do with the game.
>>713516486>Feel free to prove hour claims with a clear comparison. Your "magic eyes" don't cut it.It would be dope if I had gifs prepared but sadly no. The game does steal not just the type of the attack but the exact animation.
Scrapped Watchman and Demon Prince from DS3 is another example for you
>>713516737It does. It sets wrong expectations with the title and aesthetic while doing barebones
This game is so much better that BB isn't even funny. BB was kind of disappointing for me in everything except the visual department. Something that Lies of P fails to do. The game looks cheap, I don't know, like a knockoff of other better games. Despite this, the combat design and level design is great.
>>713516757They have no similarities what so ever.
>but they both use claws-Not plagarism. Show the exact animations, or I will be forced to accept your concession (again).
>>713516821It does not. The game expects the players to have enough general education of the adapted source material, that they know lying to be part of growth, not some sociopathic manipulation tool.
>>713516970>They have no similarities what so ever.t. didn't watch it
>"but they both use claws-"How come someone called "watchMAN" uses claws though? If not to fit the retarded design into stolen animation pack
>>713516821That's a retarded anecdotal take. I can just as well debunk you by saying that the expectations I had based on the title were completely fulfilled.
>>713517270But you would be lying though, no?
>>713517261Point me to the timestamp with the "stolen" moves. Otherwise, concession accepted.
>>713517319As you do (or don't) in the game, yes.
>>713509769 (OP)You obviously didnt watch shit, the game even keeps track of your lies on a Dorian Grey-esque painting
>>7135173410:22
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK9bdFZSc5k
3:39
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqFUmzOZHYk
>>713516608Bro, that's really cool and all, but nobody asked.
>>713517419Meaning your expectations weren't fulfilled then?
>>713517774Yep, as I thought.
>they both jump and swing with claws! that's... le same!Concession accepted.
>>713517837As I said, they were becausr you lie in the game (or don't). Your reading comprehension seems to be lacking as much as your general education.
>>713517963How come none of the souls clones have anything even remotely similar then? Nioh, Remnant, Surge etc. And yet this LoP bullshit alone has too many cases of such "similarities"
>>713518052No you said you can say the game fulfilled your expectations with lying theme
I asked "But that would be a lie"
And you admitted
>>713517319I wouldn't be. My expectations based on the tite alone were fulfilled
>>713518161I said that they were fulfilled as you lie in the game, or you don't. If you keep misreading it, it's no wonder hour own "expectations" were wildly off.
>>713518071Nope, it's just your confirmation bias.
How can you be so fixated on a such petty thing when it isn't even a game you played or enjoyed. Like what's the point of this mentally ill babbling? Do you really just waste your time being angry about games you won't even play?
>>713516608>i expected red dead redemption to let me play as general custer killing and raping Indians by the hundredsPeak schizo hours I see
What is the most overpowered weapon?
>>713509769 (OP)>10 hours of watching the gameplayfucking grim
>>713518557Used to be acid spear but I think it was nerfed.
The claws from the DLC are really good and fun, don't think I would call them overpowered though.
>>713518557wrench head with baton handle
That fire blade with cutlass handle
holy sword
>>713517774>this is his smoking gunAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LMFAO KEK
>>713517774>>713518071How do you even get through life?
>>713518438I don't have any bias. I had no reason to hate the game prior, it made it the the case
>>713519161Yes you do, as you've clearly demonstrated.
>>713519207I hate the game now but I had an open-mind until I saw the plagiarism, lack of vision and realized the title is misleading
>>713509769 (OP)>10 hours of watchingexcellent bait, retardonigger-kun. But thereโs dozens of times where you have the option to lie and whether or not you lie does matter
>>713518443>Like what's the point of this mentally ill babbling?Me venting my frustration with the game I had in my backlog but dropped
>>713519272You got it backwards buddy. You wouldn't be siding with Elden Ring id you truly cared.
>>713519289>you have the option to lieDoes the game fucking explode if you don't lie at all?
>>713519272>I hate the gameYes, it was apparent from your first post, hence your confirmation bias.
>>713519605Giant crabs 1:1 and erd tree avatars are literally asylum demon rips from the top of my head.
>>713519674You get the bad ending.
>>713519830But those are all Miyazaki games. He didn't steal it from other creators. He invented and ok'd those animations so he has all the rights
>>713519920>it's okay when miyazaki does it!All is clear now. Fromdrones are truly ill.
>>713520172Kek. They're just like tendies in most regards desu
>>713520172How is it stealing if he invented it himself lmao retard.
It's not plagiarism, it's rehashing, which is also problematic but not as bad
>OH NO WHAT IS THIS SOMEONE MADE A GAME AND PEOPLE ENJOYED AND IT WAS SUCCESSFUL?
>I MUST DEDICATE MY ENTIRE LIFE TO SHITTING ON THIS GAME ON 4CHAN NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You people really need to go outside.
>>713518557DLC last boss weapon.
What are the best shafts? Redpill me on your favourite weapon
I'm playing it for the first time right now and I'm having more fun with it than Elden Ring. What a fucking mistake it was to turn Dark Souls into generic open world fucking trash. The art direction, music, characters and NPC quests put From to fucking shame. As far as boss fights go there's some good fights and some shitty ones, but that's par for the course in the genre so whatever.
>doubles your weapon's range
Say thank you.
>>713515542>I admit it exists but it does little to nothingIt's literally the core theme, is tied to most questlines, and decides the game's ending. What the absolute fuck else do you want? It's not at any point the advertisement mislead people into thinking this is a social manipulation game instead of a soulslike. Did you expect a Pinnochio-inspired soulslike to have Werewolf/Mafia mechanics or something?
>>713523823Having a main character that talks would be a good start.
I understand it's a theme but they fumbled it. There are better ways to execute it so someone later will say "LoP is not some dumb soulsclone, it's a game where lying is a core part of it which sets it apart" - said no one ever, unless heavily prompted.
>>713521623I use the biggest blade I can find cause the charge R2 does shitloads of damage and because it has infinite stamina loss reduction on block. Then slap it on whatever handle makes it go fast
Live Puppet Axe + Baton is great
>>713514501>Poetic title is more about the vibeYou just undid your own argument, shitposter.
Just wanted to pop by say fuck this bitch I forgot how bad he was before my replay
To be fair i tought the BRB level would have me infiltrating some roguetown and having to keep my lies in-line to not blow up my cover. Im glad it didnt happen, i dont like stealth.
>>713521623Im too much of a basic bitch to actually expirement with the assembly system, i rocked the mjlonir since i got it and everytime i tried to swap the handle it felt like ass. Besides, the facetanking skill is just cool.
>>713509769 (OP)The lying system is extremely important to the game you goddamn retard
>>713524928Always run straight past him to get the stargazer behind him, so I can 1v1 him
>play game
>no pies
Just as advertised
>>713509769 (OP)Nigga the DLC just came out you donโt have to bait to get people talking about the game.
axe
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>>713523167>halves your range>visually block half the screenThanks
>>713510794Can you actually show those stolen animations or are you gonna dodge this question and continue to meme post?
>>713521623i like the one that lets you extend it
>fat finger the prompt to tell puppet butler to cure his humanfu
FUCK, WHY IS THERE NO SAVE EDITOR FUCK
>>713511979Can you think of any other boss in the game that copies anything from BB?
>>713518557The weapon you get at the end of the DLC probably
>>713515542>lying fully can unlock records that give you more humanity >this leads to alternative endings in the game >lying can give you a weapon exclusive to that specific NG file >not lying causes you to miss out on certain dialogue and records that give more humanity >lying plays into the core theme of the game which is seeking truth through lies >the game isnโt even subtle about this as the final boss is the most mustache twirling faggot that literally hates lies If your criticisms were something like
>in lies of p you lie but the lies donโt create entire alternative branching paths that lead to some insanely different outcome I could understand. But lying is a mechanic that does do stuff and is integral to the overall experience of the game. Itโs not prefect but itโs still executed well.
>>713516608Lying in LoP isnโt meant to be โevilโ the idea is that we as humans lie to protect who we love and to give small comforts to people who have little hope left. Lying in and of itself isnโt framed as a moral bad because bad things can come from lying. Even if you do agree that lying is morally wrong no matter what, if you had to lie to protect your family from being killed you absolutely would and thatโs the point of LoP. If you want some sandbox Hitman shit just play a westoid game nigga.
>>713509769 (OP)I mean, he's right
>>713516608The game uses lies as a signifier of humanity. Which is why when P acts like Carlo (being a mischievous, but good hearted boy) like lying to the woman to not hurt her or telling Belle her partner died valiantly, or even messing with fake Alidoro, is what makes him human.
>>713528941I haven't played BB but last DLC boss has some lady Maria attacks IIRC
>>713529538What you've described is valid but it's a normal NPC interaction. In ER you can do that shit too and it isn't called "Lies of Tarnished". Not prominent enough!
Mtf sister... I'm sorry to hear the transition is going so poorly
>>713529867Do you legit care about protagonist and NPCs in this game? Are you considerate about what to say narrative-wise?
>>713522080Agree. The dungeons in ER are good tho, but hate the open world
ggr
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>>713531947>Fromdrone is a dipshitmany such cases
>>713518557Rose Sword, and it's not even close.
Though I have a special place in my heart for the Arche's Guardian
>>713509769 (OP)Why they made Pinocchio so rapeable?
>>713536470the new ones are so much better than the old ones
>>713517774Iโm gonna say this with the utmost malice but you need to kill yourself. Iโm not sure how you can achieve this but I would very much like to see you live stream it. But before you do you have got to tell me so I can prepare food for the entertainment.
>>713518557Pale Knight
Rose Sword
Proof of Humanity
Twin Dragon Sword
They turn the game into a cartoon.
>>713536470Shotgun arm is ridiculous
Who could have guessed that the most powerful weapon of all was GUN.
>>713519674Does Elden Ring explode if you miss every quest and only kill a few rememberance bosses?
>>713537319Not an argument
>>713515275Humanity is gained by lying
>>713537607It gets shattered at the beginning
>>713519674Eh, the MC and the hub npcs kind of explode.
>>713536470I'm partial to the mine arm in base game
But shotty in the dlc is just absurd
>>713536470Definitevely the BOOMSTICK
>>713510794>the stolen animationsSuch as?
>>713531947Thereโs no quests in ER that I remember that require lying.
>>713532316Yeah because Iโm a faggot that typically does the good boy play throughs first run. I think the narrative of LoP and its NPCโs not just being Miyazakiโs depression self inserts helps to make them feel more alive than normal souls NPCโs. So I cared about lying to further quests lines and get more humanity.
>>713536470Falcon Eyes. I dropped it when I got into the DLC because I only wanted to use the new shit. But I think Falcon Eyes the second best LA in the game.
>>713538161Crucible Knight with mace and Markiona's puppet
>>713537734I never said it was.
>>713531471>last DLC boss has some lady Maria attacks IIRCThis fucker does not have Lady Maria attacks you dumb retard
>>713538214>Thereโs no quests in ER that I remember that require lying.You can lie to Hyetta about eyes
>>713538378What animations specifically?
Those two fight you in completely different ways
>>713521623Police baton handle
Living Puppet Axe blade
Profit
Someone in a previous LoP thread was talking about a Fist of Iron build that actually turns it into a staggering machine. Anyone know what it is? Iโm playing the game rn and wanna give it a try. Something to do with an amulet you get in the DLC I think?
>>713538461Double slash in the first phase
>>713538553Charge from above
>>713539736Theres a dlc amulet that improves legion arm damage, plus a boss amulet that increases legion arm stat scaling
If you have that and the metal arm it could probably do decent damage - doubt it'd outclass the shotgun but could be fun
>>713539754Neither of those are "stolen animations" you dumb tech illiterate nigger - those models have entirely different skeletons
>202 replies
you dumb fucks fall for bait so easy
>>713539736I dunno but the basic bitch arm could use some love.
Maybe tapping the button for rapid punches and holding for a heavy punch with big stagger.
The kind of thing unga bunga club players would love.
>>713541161Unless its gacha, the latest AAA title, or not-so-thinly veiled /pol/ bait, this is the only way to get a video game thread going on /v/. Monster Hunter before it became normalfag core also used to need bait OPs to get a thread going.
>>713541161This is the Lies of P thread
Why do devs gimp their game by not having music used during the cutscenes and have drab cacophenous boss themes? Dark Souls just did it due to it being cheap. But they have some stellar record tracks they could've actually used.
>>713539934How do you know the skeleton is different? Animations are the same
>>713542651Arlecchino's song was surprosingly great but I agree boss OSTs as a whole were kinda underwhelming
>>713536470Shotgun is the most busted. Shield Bomb is nice for convenience
>>713542651Souls boss fights (particularly in LoP) have become formulaic and it's just a given that they need some generic up beat orchestral music for the fights to be "epic". It's a shame because bosses like Gwyn or Fool's Idol are memorable because of the interesting music despite the actual fight not being very noteworthy.
>>713543121Yeah I can hear some hints of brilliance in Arlecchino's which one would expect, the rest are rather uncompelling.