Why do they talk like modern people?
If the Intro of KCD2 was accurate, for example, the speech would be like this
>Henry:
>What be these words thou keep’st shouting, good Sir Hans? Methinks they be neither prayer nor curse, but somewhat betwixt the two.
>Sir Hans:
>Jesu, Henry! Thou canst not mean thou knowest not Latin? Art thou so barren of letters?
>Henry:
>Nay, my lord, I crave thy pardon. But whilst others bent their heads o’er books, I bent mine o’er turnips. I was more oft at the plough than at the page, and my schooling was in the dung-heap, not the grammar hall.
>Sir Hans:
>By Saint Jerome, that must needs be amended. I cannot with honour keep for my guard a man who knoweth not even his nominative from his ablative. ’Tis a scandal to noble company.
instead of
>Henry:
>what's that you keep yelling sir hans?
>Hans:
>Good gracious, Henry! You don't mean to tell me you don't know latin?
>Henry:
>My apologies your grace. Unfortunately I was too busy shovelling shit and picking turnips to find time for studying Latin
>Hans:
>We shall have to rectify that. I can't have an ignoramus for a personal bodyguard.
In fact, why in hell aren't medieval and fantasy video games written with early english modern dialogue at all? We have a wealth of conversations and letters recorded from the late medieval period. Just run a language model through the Decameron and The Book of Margery Kempe then run your script through it, not that hard.

No one spoke like that in medieval England. The nobles spoke French. This sounds more like 18th century English poets imagining how people spoke in the past.

>>713601768 (OP)
>Why do they talk like modern people?
Because all fiction is translated.
Next question.

>>713602169
Read accounts from the period, they spoke more like that than modern people do.
>she saw a little house afar off. Thither she made her way as quickliest she might and found there a good man sore stricken in years and a woman, his wife alike old, who, seeing her alone, said to her, 'Daughter, what dost thou alone at this hour in these parts?' The damsel replied, weeping, that she had lost her company in the wood and enquired how near she was to Anagni. 'Daughter mine,' answered the good man, 'this is not the way to go to Anagni; it is more than a dozen miles hence.' Quoth the girl, 'And how far is it hence to any habitations where I may have a lodging for the night?' To which the good man answered, 'There is none anywhere so near that thou mayst come thither by daylight.' Then said the damsel, 'Since I can go no otherwhere, will it please you harbour me here to-night for the love of God?' 'Young lady,' replied the old man, 'thou art very welcome to abide with us this night; algates, we must warn you that there are many ill companies, both of friends and of foes that come and go about these parts both by day and by night, who many a time do us sore annoy and great mischief; and if, by ill chance, thou being here, there come any of them and seeing thee, fair and young as thou art, should offer to do thee affront and shame, we could not avail to succour thee therefrom. We deem it well to apprise thee of this, so that, an it betide, thou mayst not be able to complain of us.'

>>713602521
>18th century English translation
>accounts from the period
Anon, you're not actually reading the original Decameron here.

>>713601768 (OP)
These are medieval Czechs, not Anglos. Unlike medieval English, medieval Czech has changed surprisingly little since the early 15th century.

>>713601768 (OP)
for þam þat eald anglisc no monn ne cunne on urum dægum

>>713601768 (OP)
If you cared about accuracy you'd be playing the game in Czech to begin with retardbro, who gives a fuck if your English dub has proper prose or not?

>Hmmm... a Tarnished, eh? Althoughbeitfully the mimsy broves outgrathe... heheheh...

>>713602521
>It's completely different from your bastardised attempt
That's why no one tries it. Because coming up with something that sounds authentic instead of a lazy facsimile is extremely difficult even before factoring in the differences between spoken and written speech, lower vs upper classes and regional dialects. Even if you did manage to do it well, most people would hate of anyway.

>>713601768 (OP)
The real answer though is that they want the player to experience the dialogue immediately rather than having to stop and decipher it, as this is more immersive. The dialogue would not have sounded archaic to Henry and therefore shouldn't be to the player.

>>713601768 (OP)
They just should not be gay.
Language is just seen as auto-translate.
Him being a Christian faggot is basically putting a car in the world. Still hard to believe how toxic the devs are after making a big deal in the first game that Henry is not you the player.

>>713601768 (OP)
>the Decameron
Originally Italian. If you want early 15th century English then read Chaucer.

>>713603924
>Henry is gay so he is me
Something you want to share?

why are you playing it in english you fucking retard kek

>>713603924
Wait till you find out that all the good guys of KCD were also historical heretics despite heresy being ultra illegal and punishable by death by the church. It's almost like the laws don't actually reflect human nature.

>>713601768 (OP)
>We have a wealth of conversations and letters recorded from the late medieval period. Just run a language model through the Decameron and The Book of Margery Kempe then run your script through it, not that hard.

Lol I was just about to say that you don't even need trained professionals with english degrees for this anymore. You can just have an AI translate your script into ye olden tongue.

>>713604060
Yeah but 80% of normies could not even read that without modern english subs.
>Flee fro the prees and dwelle with sothfastnesse,
>Suffice unto thy good, though hit be smal;
>For hord hath hate, and climbing tikelnesse,
>Prees hath envye, and wele blent overal;
>Savour no more than thee bihove shal;
>Reule thyself, that other folk canst rede,
>And trouthe shal delivere, it is no drede.

>>713601768 (OP)
That's both unnecessarily verbose for a commoner, and wrong. Henry wouldn't be saying "Thou" to Hans, only Hans would be using it to refer to Henry.

>>713603267
>cunne

>>713601768 (OP)
Ah, this doth seemeth like mineth kinde of threadde!

>>713601768 (OP)
Canterbury tales in the middle English:
>A good man was ther of religioun,
And was a povre Person of a Toun;
But riche he was of hooly thoght and werk. He was also a lerned man, a clerk,
That Cristes Gospel trewely wolde preche; His parisshens devoutly wolde he teche. Benygne he was, and wonder diligent, And in adversitee ful pacient;
And swich he was y-preved ofte sithes.
Ful looth were hym to cursen for his tithes, But rather wolde he yeven, out of doute, Unto his povre parisshens aboute,
Of his offrýng and eek of his substaunce; He koude in litel thyng have suffisaunce. Wyd was his parisshe, and houses fer asonder, But he ne lafte nat, for reyn ne thonder, In siknesse nor in meschief to visíte The ferreste in his parisshe, muche and lite, Upon his feet, and in his hand a staf. This noble ensample to his sheep he yaf, That first he wroghte and afterward he taughte. Out of the gospel he tho wordes caughte; And this figure he added eek therto, That if gold ruste, what shal iren doo? For if a preest be foul, on whom we truste, No wonder is a lewed man to ruste; And shame it is, if a prest take keep, A shiten shepherde and a clene sheep. Wel oghte a preest ensample for to yive By his clennesse how that his sheep sholde lyve.
Now tell me how the average retard who reads <1 book a year will a. Not only be able to read it but fully understand it (when some of those words the meaning of are still debated by lexicographers) and b. assuming they can understand it, not develop reading fatigue extremely quickly?

>>713601768 (OP)
>Methinks
If I could erase one word from fantasy, I'd pick methinks.

>>713601768 (OP)
What the hell did they do to Henry he looks American now

>>713605827
He looks like his English VA

>>713605725
A fine choice, methinks

>>713603924
I was beginning to think you wouldn't show up. Good to see you and glad you're still seething. Will it just be you today or are the other turbofags coming?

>>713605713
soule

>>713605713
just sound everything out phonetically, according to the standard european pronunciation of vowels instead of the goofy modern post vowel shift english readings and what it says becomes much more obvious

>>713603172
>Unlike medieval English, medieval Czech has changed surprisingly little since the early 15th century.
You can read Jan Hus' own account. Czech has changed a fucking whole lot since then. Hussite Czech often sounds more like a Slovak dialect with ř and still differentiated i/y rather than contemporary Czech or standard Slovak.

>>713605713
I'm reading Le Morte D'Arthur Winchester manuscript at the moment which is in the original Middle English and barring some false friends (familiar words that don't mean the same thing as today) it's relatively easy to read though maybe would sound ridiculous actually spoken, still though it would be interesting to see a game like that

>>713601768 (OP)
I still talk like that in real life today.

>>713602521
This sounds absolutely nothing like the shit that you wrote

>>713606898
That’s still very little compared to >>713605713. A contemporary Czech can easily understand Hus’ writings despite the occasional weirdness; an average contemporary English speaker will almost certainly not understand original Chaucer.

>>713601768 (OP)
They're all talking Czech you inbred downie, it's just translated to English because that's all Americans can understand.

>>713605713
not impossible but's it's definitely a commitment (too big for your avg gaymer)
only after 50 pages i got a grasp at this bad boy
and had to look up some words here and there

>>713605713
My eyes glazed over this but then I did what >>713606506 said and it's actually pretty readable. Huh.

>>713607390
Based, I have a hardback with illustrations that I believe is a translation but still in "ye olde English", it's the unabridged version edited by John Matthews for those interested and worth picking up cheaply for the illustrations alone. Also for all the amerilards and turd worlders, here's the oldest pub in my no-name shithole bongtown, even by 1650 English had standardised considerably thanks to a combination of shakespeare, the king james bible, and Robert Cawderey's 1604 alphabeticall

>>713601768 (OP)
Top sounds like faggots at a renfair.

>>713608387
>A contemporary Czech can easily understand Hus’ writings
That is because Czech died out entirely for over a century, and when the Rebirth movement began to reconstructing it, the writings of Hus were one of the model texts to work with.
There are several problems with this, including the fact that Hus wasn't really representative of how the majority of the spoken language really sounded like.
Czech really has changed a lot. Again, it even died once. Modern Czech is a synthetic language based on how a small group of romantic scholars dreamed Czech may have sounded before german started to completely take it over. But it's not accurate. And if you ever read any text that WASN'T by Hus or Komenský (the other author that served as a rebirth model), you would be painfully aware of that.

>>713610101
Not sure the lettering is authentically 17th century - adding "ye olde" to things was a 19th century fad

>>713610101
>Norf
Based, made the mistake of moving Souf to London, regret it every day.

>>713601768 (OP)
kcd2 did not give a shit about being realistic at all, vavra was forced to put in an african warlord telling europeans to respect women

>>713601768 (OP)
>Ye olde English
Look, I am already fucking tired of Antiquity and Medieval Europe having every single person talk in a fucking British accent. Especially a game that's meant to be set in Medieval BOHEMIA (Czech Republic). You're better off having them speak in their native tongues but in older dialects (i.e. Brancaleone).
KCD2 does have the problem of people speaking more modern than KCD1 (mainly due to them speaking more informally and less detailed, which does bother me a lot compared to KCD1), but replacing it with "ye olde English" is fucking retarded. Just play it in the original game's dub if you want it to sound exotic for fuck's sake.
If you want "accurate Medieval speech", all you need is for them to be more detailed, formal and slightly more flowery in their vocabulary, but that's it. There's no reason to go retard and add in a stereotypical Olde English shite. Even then, the pronunciation of Ye Olde English is wrong 90% of the time. There's this one guy on Youtube that does it quite well and it sounds nothing like what we hear in older films.
Either way, if we went with 1400s English, it would sound nothing like what you transcribed. What you transcribed is basically Shakespeare which is too "modern". So either way, you're wrong.

>>713601768 (OP)
>oh yes, breaketh thine crust!

>>713612559
Forced by whom?

>>713612595
>If you want "accurate Medieval speech", all you need is for them to be more detailed, formal and slightly more flowery in their vocabulary
Do you really think they all spoke as they wrote? Maybe they all communicated in rhyming couplets, too?

>>713612838
plaion

>>713612595
All they need to do is give characters in a historical setting a fairly neutral accent and have them speak in a way that would have sounded normal enough 100 years ago, which means no redditisms and no current day slang.

I watched that recent movie sinners the other day and the language they use and how trashy all the characters speak ruined it before the useless story could.

>>713612838
>>713612950
I doubt it was even forced, when pic related exists; it just makes him look like a grifter.

>>713613095
Do you understand the difference between having a black community in rural Bohemia vs. 1 (one) black scholar visiting one of the biggest cities in the kingdom with an invading army?

>>713613517
from pic related
>Daniel Vavra: There were no black people in medieval Bohemia. Period.
You should be asking vavra that question since he just seems like a slippery slope.

>>713613517
Of course he doesn't, because his anti-SJW rage hinged on his deliberate misunderstanding of that precise fact in the first place

>>713601768 (OP)
>>713612595
Actually no, I rushed this when I was writing. So let me rephrase here.
The best compromise is to have your characters speak in whatever English dialect is necessary to convey the mood/tone and then have the script be more formal with varied vocabulary. And then have foreigners speak in their native tongues. That's it.
If you want accurate speech in KCD2 you need:
>Nobility and travellers speaking Latin as that was the high tongue/lingua franca.
>Everyone else speaking common, which would have to be old German or old Czech depending on the region, but as >>713610472 pointed out, even that's difficult to accurately reconstruct. And other foreigners speaking their own common tongues would have to speak their own older variant of their common tongue which would be a nightmare to recreate. See also Cumans speaking broken mistranslated Hungarian in KCD1 despite how wrong that is.

>>713612914
Of course not, but I definitely think formal latin "high tongue" speech was a lot more aristocratic and detailed. You can see how "upper classes" spoke in the 1800s-1940s as a good reference that in the past wordiness usually correlated to being of a higher class. I don't think they'd go as far as rhyming in their speech and monologue every second. But I do think their speech was more formal and used more advanced and obscure vocabulary. You don't even have to over-complicate it or make it too formal, just make them speak more formally and sometimes use more sophisticated vocabulary. Which I think KCD1 did well in some moments. Of course, nobility was permitted to get vulgar when necessary in some moments, so I think KCD1 illustrated that quite well.

>>713612996
I also agree with this.

>>713614052
Ah shit, I didn't finish writing my first point, but I wanted to end it off with:
"That would be too impractical ultimately since VAs aren't trained for this and historical translators would be tricky to find, and we can already see the linguistic issues with that. So it's better to go with the compromise I mentioned earlier"

>>713601768 (OP)
>he thinks medieval people spoke victorian english

>>713605725
I would replace it with "methingken"

>>713601768 (OP)
What is a correct prose, you dumb nigger? Do you speak 15th century English? Because it doesn't sound anything close to the renaissance fair larping you vomited in your post.

This is from Canterbury Tales from the same period as the game:

>A yeman hadde he and servantz namo

>At that tyme, for hym liste ride so,

>And he was clad in cote and hood of grene.

>A sheef of pecok arwes, bright and kene,

>Under his belt he bar ful thriftily,

>(wel koude he dresse his takel yemanly:

>His arwes drouped noght with fetheres lowe)

>And in his hand he baar a myghty bowe.

>A not heed hadde he, with a broun visage.

>Of wodecraft wel koude he al the usage.


Not only no one would ever play a game in a language like that, because he wouldn't understand it, you yourself don't understand it.

>>713610472
Anon, that's some premium bullshit.
You can't just wish languages in and out of existence.

If Czech stopped existing, then there couldn't exist a very clear and continuous dialect chain from Zemplin to Prague.
National rebirth movements were able to push some of their own ideals through (delatinised element names, neologisms and borrowings from Russian/Polish/Serbian in place of German loanwords they had a boner against) but they weren't teaching a completely German-speaking populace to recreate a natural progression of local tongues.

E.g. Eastern Slovakians (and likely other pockets of dialects) still say "luft" for "air".
So airing something out is "vyluftovac" and shit. This was the case all around before reformists took Russian "vazduch" and created a pseudo-derived word from it... "vzduch" to replace "luft". Of course not knowing that the OG word that "luft" replaced was "povětřie" as it is preserved in Polish.

>>713601768 (OP)
first of all they would be talking in czech

>>713601768 (OP)
Too tryhard for fantasy, at least.
But I wish fantasy games tried to capture real historical aesthetics more often, instead of gnarly, oversized and kitchen sink shit.

>>713614834
And medieval High German. Even majorily so around Kutenberg.

>>713603172
You literally don't know what you're talking about. Reading medieval Czech is extremely difficult, because the wording in the sentences changed significantly. You can mostly figure out the meaning of the single words, but you have to read every sentence 5 times to understand what it's saying.

>>713614752
>You can't just wish languages in and out of existence.
Are you fucking kidding me? Did you seriously not hear even once about synthetic languages, you absolute retard?

>If Czech stopped existing, then there couldn't exist a very clear and continuous dialect chain from Zemplin to Prague.
"Dialect chain" is not a thing.

>but they weren't teaching a completely German-speaking populace to recreate a natural progression of local tongues.
Dude, do you not know who Dobrovský was? Do you know ANYTHING AT ALL, about Czech history?

>>713613738
>what is context
The whole debate was about the setting of KCD1 and yes, there were no black people permanently living in medieval Bohemia. An occasional faraway visitor to the biggest cities, on the other hand, did show up. Hell, the first reliable description we have of Premyslid Prague comes from an Arab-Jewish diplomat and merchant from Moorish Spain.

Its cause the average person doesn't want to deal with that. Even something like Hunt for Red October starts in Russian, but melds into English with a message that they speak in Russian.

>>713601768 (OP)
>be these words thou keep’st shouting
that was only the prose used in fancy declarations and announcements literally meant to sound sophisticated. regular people spoke regional dialects with heavy accents. not exaggerating when i'm saying that people different villages or towns would have real trouble understanding each other despite speaking the same "language."

>>713616052
This actually does happen in KCD2. Henry has trouble understanding the Kuttenberg miners, and even has some issues with Moravians.

>>713615896
Look, NTA but you can't really deny the fact that Vávra was quite full of shit when he responded to the Musa complaints.
It's very obvious that character is a token. He is not a BADLY EXECUTED token, they clearly went out of their way to make sure to make him as non-intrusive and have as much depth and be as historically excused as possible, but he clearly wasn't part of the studios or Vávra's original vision, he clearly is slotted in to appease someone (most likely Embracer), and when Vávra claims otherwise, he is clearly disingenuos, and he contradicts his previous claims.

Musa is not a problem. He isn't badly done, he is quite flawed and quite fun, and his backstory is actually interesting. Plus, he is essentially optional, you can get him killed after total of 2 conversations.
But that kinda also proves the point. You can get him killed in 15 minutes after first seeing him. He is entirely and completely unnecessary to the game. He is superficial to it, and that proves he is there to be a token, not to drive the story in a natural way.

And Vávra trying to deny this is pissing people off, understandably so.
What isn't understandable, is people acting as if Musa, or that Hans romance thing, or the presence of a synagogue, are in any way actually relevant to quality of the game. None of these elements actually harm the game what so ever.
Musa and the Hans romance thing didn't NEED to be in the story, and clearly are only there to appease some people, but they didn't detract from the game either, making the whole controversy completely and utterly pointless.

Vávra's questionable character and twitter behavior don't help this pointless nontroversy either.

>>713616225
Now imagine that every time you travel from one village to another. This would be fine for an educational VR sim where you can die from a cold turning into pneumonia after walking 20 minutes in the rain but KCD is still a game.

>>713616225
>This actually does happen in KCD2.
Also a good 1/5 of the characters straight up speak German.
As they should given the settings.

>>713601768 (OP)
Because the english of the time was effectively another language. And is not understandable to most english speakers.

>>713615312
If anything, I wish Elder Scrolls would be more fantastical.
Morrowind should have stayed modus operandi with how alien everything is, from available resources, animals, diet, clothing, etc. Where are my fucking sky whales peacefully dancing through the light of the moons?

>>713616575
You take ESG gibs, you put ESG talking points into your product. Whoop dee doo. It's a normal business decision.

The actually shitty thing is that they still demand you pay for the game after you've already paid for it by proxy through taxes.

>>713616881
Proportions suck, oversized axe head and way too heavy looking helmet.

>>713615893
>synthetic languages
That word means something else in linguistics, you want "constructed language". And whilst there are a few conlangs with a sizeable language community, it's not the same as teaching an entire 19th century nation a new language as their first language, now is it? There are places today where there are attempts at reviving or preserving minority languages and let me tell you, that's incredibly fucking difficult when there's already a majority language in use that gets you by doing anything.

So without knowing the details about the history of Czech I am going to go out on a limb and say you are at least exaggerating when you say it went entirely extinct once.

>>713616998
It's clearly a ceremonial armor

>>713601768 (OP)
>games should put in a lot of time and effort to do something nobody cares about
nah

>>713601768 (OP)
Why would a bohemian speak ye olde english? You fucking retarded retard.

>>713617087
>That word means something else in linguistics, you want "constructed language".
No, not it does not and no, I do not.

>>713617087
>it's not the same as teaching an entire 19th century nation a new language as their first language, now is it?
Again. Maybe do not talk about history of a country you know absolutely nothing about. Also maybe don't try to talk linguistics to an actual linguist while you are at it.

>So without knowing the details about the history of Czech I am going to go out on a limb
You are a fucking retard and you need to stop talking about subjects you don't understand.

>>713601768 (OP)
because a lot primary english speakers wouldn't be able to make sense of much of what is being said. Let alone ESL's who don't have subtitles or voice acting in their native language. Then you have the headache of translating that shit to languages that do, you would have to drop the whole shtick altogether.

>>713601768 (OP)
You might like Vampire the Masquerade Redemption

>>713616684
And poor Henry, being a rural peasant, doesn't understand them except for some common words.
>You have big...halls?

>>713601768 (OP)
They had "old timey English" in the prototype. It was not even 15th century English, but players still rejected it.

https://youtu.be/84AiE46erkk?t=793

Even today, when you watch native English-speaking streamers they don't understand basic English words like dovecote, ramparts or brigadine.

>>713617821
>No, not it does not and no, I do not.
Yes it does and yes you do.
>Also maybe don't try to talk linguistics to an actual linguist while you are at it.
You don't exactly come across as a linguist, to me, a linguist.

Go on, explain why syntheticity is relevant here. Do note that I am actually interested in you fucking explaining this amazing feat of language revival because it sounds like an incredibly wild tale, but if you're only going to respond with hostility and dismissiveness then I'm going to assume you're actually full of shit.

>>713617997
I actually dislike this. The characters sound too theatrical, they don't sound like contemporaries talking to each other.

>>713601768 (OP)
haven't played KCD2 yet but we learned latin in the first game what kind of retcon bullshit is this

>>713601768 (OP)
Zoomies can't even read cursive

>>713617821
>Also maybe don't try to talk linguistics to an actual linguist while you are at it.
Wait, you've got an actual linguistics degree and yet you still left uni with the ingrained idea that Czech is a revived constructed language in the same way Hebrew was?
What sort of paper factory university did you attend, (or ideally, which course/presenter) so I could write the fuckers a very stern letter about giving Czechoslovak academia a very shitty name, likely without even knowing they're employing some retard pushing fan fiction on their students.

Czech was artificially reintroduced into the fully German areas after the German genocide but that's a far cry from the whole language going bust and alive again.
You literally can't do that before radio becomes a household item for your whole populace because any language teaching is going to become a shitty game of telephone. Even with specialised recordings, TV and everything, Hebrew still lost many of the more alien Semitic consonants that the European colonists couldn't deal with, no matter how the reconstruction worked.
There is no world in which you can take a nation of some 5 million peasants and have them pronounce all vowels correctly, keep shit like ř intact when there is no one who can even pronounce that shit, not in Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and most certainly absolutely nowhere in German-speaking nations. And doing that without recorders, or radio, or TV, just text and a handful of folks with attitude.
That's absolutely asinine nonsense I would expect on /pol/ or /his/ when taking a piss, but definitely not from a person who fucking studied linguistics.

>>713618181
>You don't exactly come across as a linguist, to me, a linguist.
Says the one who does not know the difference between synthetic, natural and formal languages. And someone who literally does not know about the history the rebirth movement. And does not see a problem in passing out judgements on subject of language history despite literally never read a SINGLE FUCKING SOURCE RELEVANT TO THE SUBJECT.

Nah kid, you aren't a fucking linguist, and frankly, I doubt you fucking finished highschool. The first thing a college will fucking hammer into your skull, is to not talk with authority on the subjects you don't fucking understand. Which is exactly what you are doing right now.

Again. If you are a fucking linguist, then do what you are supposed to: OPEN A FUCKING CATALOGUE AND SEARCH, FOR FUCK SAKE.

Maybe look into why is it that one of the main reason why we know that The Tale of Igor's Campaign is fake, is because it contains multiple Czechisms. You might actually learn something for ONCE IN YOUR PATHETIC LIFE.

>>713619096
>Czech was artificially reintroduced into the fully German areas after the German genocide
Holy shit what the fuck am I even reading here? What the FUCK are you talking about?! How am I supposed to take anything you say seriously? What fucking german genocide?

>>713601768 (OP)
FFT did this and it caused normie gamers to seethe about it non stop.

>>713605018
100% of normies only read subtitles.
I dont know if "Generic Pop Music" in the background, people talking really fast in movies and series, making it harder to hear what they are talking, or for the sake of "realism", they mumble because that's apparently how people talk today.

>>713619860
Anon, once again, "synthetic" is not the opposite of a natural language, "constructed" is; the opposite of synthetic is "analytical" in this context. Czech happens to be a synthetic language but it is clear from the context of your post that you meant something else.

No, I don't know shit about Czech, but I know enough about linguistics, about language acquisition, about language contact, about language revival, that your outlandish tale sets off a bunch of buzzers. Again, if what you're saying is true, I think it is actually incredibly interesting! But it doesn't pass the smell test, and the fact that you're misapplying linguistics terms in an attempt to establish your credentials does not bode well.

So here I am, very eager to learn from you, the supposed expert, and all you do is hurl abuse and avoid explaining shit. Not very compelling.

(Also no idea what the German genocide bit is about desu; for all I know you're both nationalistic pseudo-linguistic fabulists)

>>713619860
>why is it that one of the main reason why we know that The Tale of Igor's Campaign is fake
>The thesis of the poem's being a complete forgery has been proposed in the past but is widely discredited; the poem's language has been demonstrated to be closer to authentic medieval East Slavic than practicable by a late 18th-century forger.
Oh dear

>>713622020
>"constructed" is; the opposite of synthetic is "analytical" in this context.
Fuck, now I see where the problem is. Partially my fault, partially your fault, and partially English being stupid. Constructed is the more common nomenclature in English, though Synthetic is often used as well, since it's the term used in most other languages in the world.

What YOU are talking about is grammar, specifically morphology. And holy shit NO, analytical is not an opposition to synthetic morphology for fuck sake. Firstly it's a god damn triade, second of all they are not fucking mutually exclusive.

It's like fucking saying Sign is the opposite of Icon, for fuck sake. Again, you had one class on basic morphology in highschool, haven't you?

>>713622020
>No, I don't know shit about Czech, but I know enough about linguistics, about language acquisition, about language contact,
If you knew anything about those things, you would know quite a lot about Czech, you absolute fucking clown.

And again, if you did have basics of the education you pretend to have, we would be not having this conversation: You'd be knee deep in the insane amount of available sources right now, fixing the MASSIVE gaps in your education.

Again, it was a massive, 100-year long project. It's not like sources on this shit are scarce.

>>713622978
Yeah. Noticed something interesting about that entire segment of that article?

>>713619964
3 million Germans ethnically cleansed from Czechoslovakia after WW2.
Allowed to take nothing more than what they could carry on their back, even shot at with machineguns in a few instances.

The vast areas they lived in repopulated with the undesirables of the Slovak portion of the republic, that is Hungarian speakers and Gypsies.
Now these people were all transplanted into Czechia post-WW2 and indeed show up as an anomaly in the Czechoslovak dialectal continuum. But there's fuck all else you could have misinterpreted as meaning "There were no Czech speakers at all during the National Revival movement".

>>713623085
>Partially my fault, partially your fault
No, entirely your fault. I knew exactly what you meant at the same time that I knew what you were actually saying, whereas you immediately jumped to the wrong conclusion because your language is stupid and so are you.
I will admit that calling synthetical and analytical "opposites" is a simplification but it is true that languages tend to lose synthetic features as they acquire analytical features.
>If you knew anything about those things, you would know quite a lot about Czech
You think English alone does not have enough examples of this? The Danelaw, the Norman Conquest, the Gaeltacht, the Empire?

Not only does your version of events fly in the face of common sense, it also flies in the face of all easily googleable information. Sources aren't scarce but ones that say the same thing you do sure seem to be.

>>713623680
>3 million Germans ethnically cleansed from Czechoslovakia after WW2.
>AFTER.
>WW2.
>Czech Rebirth.
>AFTER WW2.
Again.
WHAT THE FUCK AM I READING HERE? What is this shit?!

I have to say, gentlemen, I've really enjoyed the linguistics bitch-fight.
>t. PhD in an unrelated medieval historical discipline.

>>713623271
Yeah, the sentence right after:
>It was not until 1951 that scholars discovered ancient birch bark documents with content in this medieval language.
that really speaks for its authenticity. It also mentions Dobrovsky, the man who single-handedly reforged Czech from scratch, I guess.
I have seen several indicators now that you seem to take up the most fringe position you can on any issue regarding Czech linguistics.

>>713623865
Trying to make sense of your seemingly psychadelics-induced nonsense.
A person with a degree in Czech linguistics would never spout the shit you do. The German genocide I mentioned is the only recorded instance of standardised Czech being fully transplanted into an area of non-Czech speaking populace and thus the only thing you could possibly have misinterpreted to get us to your nonsensical rambling today.

>>713623682
>No, entirely your fault.
Actually, not my fault, as you WILL FIND THE USE "SYNTHETIC LANGUAGES" as synonymous to "Constructed" languages in most english-written literature.
Meanwhile, you do not find people confusing synthetic languages with Synthetic morphology, because those are not the same things.

>You think English alone does not have enough examples of this?
What the fuck are you talking about? You want to talk about Czech but you explicitly say you will base any and all of your assumptions about Czech based on English?!
The fuck is wrong with you child?

>>713601768 (OP)
>Why do they talk like modern people?
because normies don't care about realism
you are not the target audience
the game was not made for you

Age of Empires 4 did something cool were your units voice lines would evolve with each age
So, for example, playing with the English, you would start with your peasants speaking Old English, and by the last age they would be speaking Shakesperian English

>>713624229
Not an academician, are you?

>>713624262
>Trying to make sense of your seemingly psychadelics-induced nonsense.
Let me help you.
Dobrosky, the man who started the project to reconstruct/reinvent Czech, was born in 1753 and died in 1829. Czech national rebirth is a matter of 18th and 19th century. There are disagreements about when it ended. Some claim that the project was complete with succesful reinvention of the language and reintroduction of it into schools as part of the new constitution in 1867. Others put it at the division between mladočeši and staročeši in 1870's, and others yet claim it ended with the Badeni/Gautch laws.

The most extreme people may even claim that it was only truly concluded with the forming of Czechoslovakian Republic. In 1918.

Can YOU FUCKING TELL ME WHEN WW2 HAPPENED, AND HOW IT WOULD BE RELEVANT TO EVENTS THAT GENERALLY CONCLUDED BETWEEN 1860-1918?!

>>713601768 (OP)
play ultima then faggot

>>713624262
I am still interested, though: what was the language situation before the Czech revival, and what did they do?
>>713624309
Anon, do me a favour and google "synthetic language" and tell me what definition it gives you.
Indeed, it is an odd mistake for a linguist to make, which is why it raised my suspicions.
>What the fuck are you talking about?
I am talking about how difficult it is to, firstly, impose a language on a populace in order to displace their native tongue, and secondly, get people to start speaking a dead language when they're getting by just fine speaking something else (kind of the same thing but from a different perspective, if you think about it). Did you think these principles do not transfer to other languages?

>>713624749
https://youtu.be/CR2l19MRO6E?t=11699

>>713624787
Anon, he's not confused about the timeline. He's just thinking you might be, considering what you're saying makes no sense.

>>713624787
>Can YOU FUCKING TELL ME WHEN WW2 HAPPENED, AND HOW IT WOULD BE RELEVANT TO EVENTS THAT GENERALLY CONCLUDED BETWEEN 1860-1918?!

And can you, dr. PhDr Anon-sama CSC, now explain what does the national rebirth movement have to do with Czechia full of native-German speakers for more than a generation suddenly inventing a language out of thin air (perhaps copying the language in Western Slovakia or however this schizo theme of your is supposed to work?) and somehow, magically, making everyone, nobility/scholars/burgers/villagers/beggars but the Sudetenland Germans speak this alien language natively over the span of a century?
Oh, and let's not even touch on the problem of the existence and contemporary accounts of Czech and Czech speakers by all of Slovak intelligentsia, which was contemporary to these efforts and in direct contact with these folks, in Komensky's case literally joining in and claiming that Slovak itself is a Czech dialect and catching flak with schizos just slightly below your level in Stur and his lot.

>>713624806
>I am still interested, though: what was the language situation before the Czech revival, and what did they do?
Why are you asking a person who thinks Czech national rebirth took place after WW2?

And as to your question, it's simple. The germanification of Bohemia and Moravia under the Austrian rule was entirely peaceful, but also entirely successful.
By 1800, spoken Czech didn't really exist. Dobrovsky, who was the grandparent of the whole project, and outlined the plan to reinvent the language, never wrote or spoke a single work in Czech himself.
But he did start to reconstruct what was available based on historical texts, in particular, on works of people he and his circles believed to be useful as future national icons and mythbases: in particular, works of Hus and Komenský, both of which had at one time attempted to set down formal textbooks for old Czech.

70 years later, Dobrovsky's apprentices and followers more-or-less finalized what they hoped was a reconstruction of Czech, as faithful as they could get it, and it was massively pushed through every from of distribution possible. It was a national rebirth, even if you have barely finished highschool, if you are not a murrican, you should fucking know what it entails. The cultural discourse was flooded, and after 1848, so were schools.
This wasn't without issues. "Old Czechs" and "Young Czech" split is a good example of how much of it was fabrication or pissing contests, but again, the same shit was happening all over the world, Czechs were unique only by just how fucking much far the germanization has gotten by the time it started, otherwise, all national rebirths were ENTIRELY based around fabricating shit, that was the point. To create an entirely new identity for themselves, using historisms entirely in service of legitimizing that shit.

And that is all. By 1870, most schools taught Czech and German in equal measure, in 1890's the option to use it as a legal language.

>>713624749
>>713624842
It was really cool, but it was applied very haphazardly.
The Rus', for instance (to touch on the whole cursed topic of this one supposed-Linguist anon on shrooms), really don't even try to undo akaniye, which developed centuries afterwards.
Basically some of the civs in the game do get a language progression, but most just go from simple utterances to longer sentences to sell the idea of the language becoming more complex. Despite speaking the same language throughout.
Malians or Turkish just speak modern Malian and Turkish. Japanese, likewise, just do samurai-speech (think a sort of fake Shakespearean Ye Olde English) throughout.

>>713624938
>He's just thinking you might be, considering what you're saying makes no sense.
Why are you defending a person who though EUROPEAN NATIONAL REBIRTH would somehow be related to WW2?

You know. European national rebirths. That thing that famously lead to the revolution of 1848? LITERALLY 100 YEARS EARLIER?!

>>713601768 (OP)
Pretty sure if we're talking accuracy no one in Bohemia was speaking english at that time.

>>713625664
>now explain what does the national rebirth movement have to do with Czechia full of native-German speakers for more than a generation suddenly inventing a language out of thin air
I'm... I'm just going to let this hang out here, for everyone to see and appreciate.

>>713601768 (OP)
They shouldn't be speaking English. Period.

>>713625664
Oh, and fun fact about this shit.
Slovaks spoke hungarian. In fact, there was no such thing as a "slovak" at that time. It was just Hungary.

>>713626145
Again, Anon, he does not think that. He told you that the only example he could think of in Czech history that corresponds to what you are saying occurred after WWII, and the fact that that is notably not during the Czech revival is kind of the point.

You seem to make a habit of misundertanding others and then accusing them of ignorance.

>>713626259
Anon, prestaň tu zo seba (a okoloidúcich cudzincov) robiť vola a podeľ sa s nami o tom, ktorej univerzite treba napísať maila o dosť nešťastnom podaní učiva.
Ako Ti hovoria aj ostatní týpci tuná, tvoja predstava o kompletne ponemčenej spoločnosti ktorá len z presvedčenia oživí vykonštruovaný jazyk, je úplne scestná. Komenský a jeho rovestníci formovali písanú formu jazyka a to, ako sa Čeština, neskôr aj Slovenčina nakoniec začala učiť na školách, ale celé to stavali na jazyku, ktorým stále rozprávali ľudia po dedinách a mestečkách. Inak by to fungovať ani nemohlo.

I'm currently going with the theory that our Czech linguist was half asleep during the introductory lecture, heard something about it being a "synthetic language" and a "revival", and formed a misapprehension that somehow endured for his entire academic career.

>>713601768 (OP)
Why the fuck should they use period accurate English when it's more likely to hinder than help someones immersion and suspension of disbelief? You're overlooking the fact that there's not just the words at face value to take into account but many terms had a different meaning or a subtext that is lost on modern audiences.

>>713626952
Actually, what he said is "I have never heard of this "National rebirth concept", this is the first time I'm hearing about it. Was it something about WW2?"

Which, I should not have to explain to you, is UTTERLY FUCKING RETARDED, UNBELIVABLE LACK OF MOST BASIC EDUCATION for anyone from the old continent.

And no, for fuck sake, 1948, LITERAL FUCKING 30 YEARS AFTER THE FORMATION OF CZECHOSLOVAKIA, is not the only time this shit happened, in fact, it is literally IMPOSSIBLE TO REINVENT CZECH LANGUAGE 30 YEARS INTO THE EXISTENCE OF COUNTRY THAT USES CZECH AS A LEGAL NATIONAL LANGUAGE FOR FUCK SAKE.

What the fuck are you two smoking? How does one get this retarded?

Yeah, those 200 years when Czech had state-mandated administrative AND state-mandated schools in German are the time when watching a language die and then start to reinvent it from scratch would be unthinkable.

30 years after declaring Czechoslovakia an independent, Czech-speaking country was the only possible time when Czech language could be reinvented.

Do you fucking even read what you say, or what that other retard said?

How could he, or you, or anyone even remotely sane, come to the conclusion that Czech could be only re-invented 30 YEARS INTO THE EXISTENCE OF A STATE THAT USED IT AS A STATE LANGUAGE?!

I'm trying to fucking keep up with your retardation, but my god, what the fuck happened here?

>>713601768 (OP)
they didn't talk like that they talked like atlanta youths with something to prove

>>713602521
Isn't that a short story? Not exactly a measure of common speech

>>713627174
Opravdu chce slovák mluvit o kvalitě vzdělávacích institucí? Seš si doufám vědomej, že kdyby moji univerzitu zavřely, 90% vašich vysokoškoláků by nemělo kde studovat.

Možná, pokud najdete čas mezi lízáním Putinovy prdele, byste mohly dát dohromady třeba jen jednu školu která která by dostála reputaci alespoň poloviční, co má zkurvenej Hradec Králové.

A proboha kurva živýho, vzhledem k tomu, že ČESKÉ obrození je jediný důvod proč právě teď nemluvíš maďarsky, možná by nebylo od věci se o něm něco naučit.

Se vší úctou k naším malým bratříčkům, příště radši drž sám hubu.

>>713627298
That's the thing, right? If it was a completely random anon I could brush it off as someone taking a piss, or someone who's never thought about the topic in any depth and could misinterpret some talk about the history of Czech language. Imagine some rando listening to a talk (by >pic rel Karel Oliva, for instance, who's great at what he does but he doesn't dumb down for the audience) where they rightfully claim that Standard Czech, as taught in school, alongside the ortography, has some elements which are artificially added or modified because of some historicizing principles (ortography preserving i/y despite it merging into one phoneme shortly after Hus' death), fulfilling the national unifiaction role (the final -ý became -ej in major Bohemian dialects but since Moravian dialects and the old Bibles had -ý, people would be taught to write and even pronounce it the other way around in official contexts, though that's not the case anymore). Sure, I could see them making some jumps to arrive at the conclusion that Czech was actually revived as if we could magick Ancient Egyptian back into being if we just got some autist dedicated enough and added an elective in compulsory education in Egypt. It's nonsense, but one that a guy servicing cars could easily start believing in.

But a person who has actually done a degree in this field? That's not sad, that's outright vile. And people like that are even more dangerous in that they have a title which means people are more willing to listen.

>>713627757
>Actually, what he said is "I have never heard of this "National rebirth concept", this is the first time I'm hearing about it. Was it something about WW2?"
Did that happen further up the thread? Because it wasn't in your recent exchange. Anyway, the thing we are both talking about is an area going from entirely German-speaking to entirely Czech speaking, which is what you're saying happened during the revival, and which he is disputing.

I should note that I do know of a similar example from the history of the British Isles. The use of Irish in Ireland was heavily suppressed for centuries under British rule. And yet, there are still holdouts today where Irish is spoken as a first language. On the flipside of the coin, however, Irish revival attempts are not going well, despite it being mandatory in schools.
Now, you're saying that the eradication of Czech was more complete than this and yet somehow its revival in the 19th century a more rousing success, to the point of completely reversing its utter nonexistence? Again, seems implausible.

>>713616575
You didn't even play the game you faggot shill. The game railroads you into defending him at the murder quest, and you can't kill him as he's marked as an essential NPC.

>>713602169
they are czech not english

/v/ - Slav Fights

>>713628932
Always has been

>>713601768 (OP)
actually they wouldnt speak like that at all cause theyre not english idiot

>>713628765
>Did that happen further up the thread?
It happened when I said "National Rebirth" and he started assuming that I'm talking about some event that took place after Benesh repatriation act.
>>713628765
>Anyway, the thing we are both talking about is an area going from entirely German-speaking to entirely Czech speaking,
Dude. You claimed to be a linguist. What are you asking me right now? You specifically claimed you know something about language acquisition and distribution.
Yet this is the first time you've ever heard about language going extinct, or a language being revived?

Also, I never said anything about Czech being entirely Czech speaking. The vast majority of Czech remained bi-lingual or only german-speak up till 1948. Even after 1918, Czech, Slovak (which was another synthetic language build from nothing at the time) and German were all three state languages, and the fact that almost 2 milion people chose to only use German even after 1918 was thing that ended up causing a lot of grief for a lot of people later down the line. The whole "german genocide" thing that other retard mentioned, to be specific.

This shit isn't new for fuck sake. You have the EXACT same shit happening all over india, right fucking now. This shit has been happening all over fucking Europe for 120 years for fuck sake.

German national rebirth was a big thing. It literally completely re-wrote Europe. How is this news to you?

As for why Czechs aren't like Irish: simple. Ireland was never even REMOTELY as closely incorporated into GB as Bohemia was into Austro-Hungary. In big part thanks to the fact there was no even remotely comparable cultural divide line like faith was in Ireland, partially because Austro-Hungary was fucking Austro-Hungary, and INFINITELY more centralized and authoritative state than UK has ever been. Again, mandatory, state-inforced 5-7 years education of all children, exclusively and strictly in german, normal part of our history since 1770.

>>713628798
Uh... you can't kill him, but you can have him convicted of the murder. All three of the suspects are free game. If you point a finger at one and present evidence (which you can very easily do, there is evidence for all three of them, that is kinda how murder mysteries work), he will be executed.

>>713623085
>>713624309
This is the entirety of the Czech wikipedia article on Synthetic languages:

>Syntetický jazyk je označení pro jazyky, které pracují s flexí a různými typy slovotvorby. Do této skupiny patří jazyky flektivní a aglutinační.

>Syntetické jazyky jsou protikladem analytických jazyků.

Now, if I run this through google, you know what it says? That synthetic languages are the opposite of analytical languages. And what's additionally interesting is that if I go to the Czech wikipedia article for "constructed language" it doesn't say anything resembling "synthetic" (except semantically).

>>713630053
Yeah, and you also might find something very peculiar about that Czech entry on Wiki.

Can you tell me what might be a reason to be concerned?

>>713629780
>It happened when I said "National Rebirth" and he started assuming that I'm talking about some event that took place after Benesh repatriation act.
Anon, you are completely not following the conversation, I'm sorry to say.

>You claimed to be a linguist. What are you asking me right now? You specifically claimed you know something about language acquisition and distribution.
Yet this is the first time you've ever heard about language going extinct, or a language being revived?
No, I know of plenty of languages going extinct, and I also know of plenty revival projects, and so I also know they aren't as closely related as the names might suggest to a layman. "Revival" is a bit of a misnomer because it almost always involves revitalising a dying minority language rather than completely resurrecting a dead language. In fact, there is notably only one accepted example of a language going from being considered dead to being the first language of a sizeable community again and it's not Czech.

Now, you keep bringing up nationalist movements in other nations as part of the nationalist wave that swept Europe during 19th century, as if this is supposed to tell us something specific about Czech, and yet you keep dismissing linguistic examples taken from other languages.

>>713630463
If I were to guess it's the lack of citations. I promise you, though, that I didn't just write it. I don't mean to present wikipedia as a work of rigid scholarship; I only want to point out that your claim that everyone calls constructed languages "synthetic languages" in Czech doesn't seem to hold up, and that they are in fact categorised as opposites (for what it's worth, the better source English version puts forth the more nuanced notion that they are at opposite sides of a spectrum).

>>713630756
>they are in fact categorised as opposites
Meaning, analytical and synthetic languages. In other words, I see no reason why you would confuse synthetic and constructed languages because the same distinction seems to hold (and also incidentally you were wrong wrt analytical and synthetic languages)

>>713630525
>Anon, you are completely not following the conversation, I'm sorry to say.
Dude, again.
Why are you defending a person who though National Rebirth could be in any way related to events of 1948?
Is it because you actually though the same fucking thing, because in reality, you just had one fucking highschool lecture on morphology, and now you are larping as a linguist and talking about something you do not understand in the slightest?

Nah, I'm following the conversation as well as one can follow conversation with one COMPLETE RETARD, and one pretentious child.

Again, for fuck sake, I gave you more than enough shit to go and fucking google the shit up. This not a controversial subject. This is 150 years of EXTREMELY well documented history, that you just never fucking heard off, because you are brain-dead, and think that as English, you inherently must know and understand everything by default.

For fuck sake you yourself admited that all of your experience is based entirely on what you know from ENGISH. You claim to be a linguist but I do not think you are even bi-linguial for christ sake.

>>713630525
>In fact, there is notably only one accepted example of a language going from being considered dead to being the first language of a sizeable community again and it's not Czech.
I really want to hear what you think that language is from someone who speaks exactly ONE language himself, and yet pretends to be a linguist. I'm all giddy.

>as if this is supposed to tell us something specific about Czech,
You are damn fucking right it should you absolute retard.
DO YOU OR DO YOU NOT KNOW WHAT THE FUCKING NATIONAL REBIRTH MOVEMENT WAS?!
It's a simple question about literally the most important event of the 19th century. Can you fucking tell me what it was? How and where it started? What were the shared steps?

>>713603924
Sodomites aren't a new invention. Someone claiming the name of Christ does not make them a good person.
Source: The Bible.

>>713601768 (OP)
You are poser. If you actually believed this horseshit you wouldn't just demand them to sound annoying, you'd also be against translations.

>>713631210
>Why are you defending a person who though National Rebirth could be in any way related to events of 1948?
I'm not, and your failure to grasp this makes me wonder about the extent of your misunderstanding beyond just this conversation. I explicitly explained to you what was going on and it's like you're not even reading it. No one needs your history lesson.

>I really want to hear what you think that language is from someone who speaks exactly ONE language himself
Nou mot je helemaal je vuile kankermuil houe

>It's a simple question about literally the most important event of the 19th century.
Yeah I'm starting to mildly suspect that nationalism might be colouring your objectivity somewhat in this matter

>>713631210
>>713631628
Oh wait, you meant the pan-European movement, the one I already acknowledged. Still, though, what is that supposed to tell us about the specific circumstances of the Czech language situation at the time? Fucking nothing, bruv. I actually can't go from the French revolution to "Czech was extinct" from first principles, believe it or not.

>>713630756
>If I were to guess it's the lack of citations. I promise you, though, that I didn't just write it.
I didn't imply that you did. But the fact it has absolutely no form of references in any way what so ever should clue you into the fact that this wasn't made by someone who understands the subject. In fact, that it was most likely made by someone who does not even speak Czech as their first language.

In Czech linguistic, the synthetic/analytic/isolating system isn't really being used, as we prefer something called STZ. You will find mentions of the old Synthetic/Analytic/Isolating thing in either very old textbooks, or shitty, non-profesional translations of text that popped in existence during the wild 90's (though most of the time, the term will actually be "Syntetizující", not "syntetické", because the word "syntetické" is already used for something else, as a synonym for "umělé").

All actual academic literature will talk about Isolating, aglutinating, flektive, introflective, and polysynthetic. Again, "synthetic language" (syntetický jazyk) in Czech means "artificial language", or it is a mistranslation.

Which is the case of this article.

>>713632292
At this point I'm not about to take your word for anything.

>>713601768 (OP)
KCD is not set in Britain.

>>713603434
lel

>>713601768 (OP)
good thing youre not a localizer. the ones who already think this way and do this, need a death penalty.

>>713632813
Curious reversal of the usual /v/ stance

Medieval fantasy but all white people talk in modern ebonics, do drugs and live in ghetto, but's it's a medieval London style ghetto.

>>713601768 (OP)
that's your problem with the game and not the gay sex and feminist muslim niggers

>>713601768 (OP)
Cockfighting with Capon

>>713631628
>I explicitly explained to you what was going on
No, you claimed that somehow thinking national rebirth happened after WW2 makes sense because that was the only time where one could concieve a language could be made from scratch and reintroduced to the public.

That the claim that Czech was dead, reinvented and reintroduced was so outrageous, that 1948 was pretty much the only time when something like that has happened.

I've went into great length to explain why that is so fucking stupid it makes me slightly nauseous just trying to follow your shared line of "reasoning".

There is nothing to talk about. I talked about national rebirth. That idiot has never heard about it, and thought it must be related to the "german genocide" that actually never happened, because he simply didn't know what national rebirth was.

And you are defending him because you will literally support ANYTHING that contradicts me, because you are stuck in this hilarious desperate position where you made a ton of REALLY stupid claims about a lot of shit you do not understand in the slightest, and I'm a living proof of how wrong you are, so you will grasp on to literally any, even most retarded shit, to "take me down" and stop reminding you of what you are doing.

Now with that cleared out of the way:
>Nou mot je helemaal je vuile kankermuil houe
Amazing what google translate can do these days, isn't it?

>Yeah I'm starting to mildly suspect that nationalism might be colouring your objectivity somewhat in this matter
So the answer is no. You have no fucking clue what it was and why it was important, at all.
Got it.

What are you doing here, again? Why don't you just leave. I promise, the same will last for just a few minutes.
And for the record: if someone talks about the importance of national rebirth, even specifically talks about the role of fabrication within it:
That means the person is actually extremely skeptical and critical of the concept of national identity.

>>713607390
>And thus they fought all the longe day, and never stynted tylle the noble knyghtes were layde to the colde erthe. And ever they fought stylle tylle hit was nere nyght, and by than was there an hondred thousand leyde dede uppon the erthe. Than was kynge Arthure wode wrothe oute of mesure, whan he saw hys people so slayne frome hym.
>And so he loked aboute hym and cowde se no me of all hys oste and good knyghtes leffte, no me on lyve but two knyghtes: the tone was sir Lucan de Buttler and hys brother, sir Bedwere; and yette they were full sore wounded.
>‘Jesu mercy!’ seyde the kynge, ‘where ar all my noble knyghtes becom?

>>713632435
I don't really give a shit. As far as I'm concerned, there are only two options for you.
One is to find what very, very little of human decency may be left in you and admit you are wrong, or continue to be a retard, which is going to harm you, not me.

I'm giving you the information, what you do with it is completely beyond my control, and barely interesting to me. If you look into it, you'll see that I'm right. If you don't, well, then you are an idiot and nobody can help you anyway.

Best of luck to you.

They abandoned realism when they added a guy from a country where only a single person was ever documented to have visited any other countries and zero documented examples of anyone from that country visiting anywhere in Europe, much less Bohemia.

>>713633108
>No, you claimed that somehow thinking national rebirth happened after WW2 makes sense
No, Anon, the entire point is it doesn't. It's not that that was the only moment it *could've* happened, it's that it's the only moment it *did* happen, at least in the way you described, i.e. a previously German-speaking area was entirely Czechified.
Because what actually happened during the Czech revival was not that. So that Anon was graciously assuming you were perhaps conflating two disparate historical events rather than completely talking out of your arse, but you dispelled that notion by clarifying you do in fact make the distinction between them.
>That idiot has never heard about it
Again, jumping to conclusions regarding ignorance not at all borne out by your actual interactions with people.
>And you are defending him because you will literally support ANYTHING that contradicts me
I'm defending him because you're clearly stupid and bad at reading, and the alternative offered by him not only makes sense but is actually confirmed by my reading up a bit on the internet (what, you think I wouldn't?). And no, that does not mean I am now convinced that the Czech revival was a post-WWII event, just to head that one off.

>Amazing what google translate can do these days, isn't it?
Oh, it doesn't do that, I assure you. Try it yourself. Admittedly, I don't think I can do better than google with my third or fourth language, but two is enough for this trick.
>You have no fucking clue what it was and why it was important, at all.
>Got it.
I'm sure you'll find my second reply soon enough, wherein I say pretty much what I would answer to this.

>>713633373
>If you look into it, you'll see that I'm right
I did, lol. You're not.

Retards are forced to read Shakespeare in high school and then go their whole lives thinking everyone talked like that

>>713629973
Uh no you can't, he isn't even a choice among the suspects during the trial. You can accuse Grozav (and plant valerian as evidence) or Crow after completing all investigations. You can't even frame Musa or condemn the two guards. As I said, the game rail roads you into defending Musa you gaslighting shill.

>>713632930
We are half way there with modern fantasy games. But since they are made by white liberals and not blacks you won't get full blown ghetto shit.

>>713633927
>No, Anon, the entire point is it doesn't. It's not that that was the only moment it *could've* happened, it's that it's the only moment it *did* happen, at least in the way you described, i.e. a previously German-speaking area was entirely Czechified.
Literally everything you just said is wrong. So wrong, I'm at a lost where to start here.

No, what I described happened in between 1790 and 1860. It's also the only time something like that COULD have happened, since what I described is Czech language dying and being reinvented (something that COULD HAVE NOT HAPPENED IN 1948 WHEN CZECH WAS ALREADY A STATE LANGUAGE SINCE 1890).

Again. It's simple. It's something you have never heard off, because, let's face it, you aren't the brightest person in the world.
It's an incredibly well documented event, but you just... well you barely made it through high school, so here we are.

That is it. It happened. In the only time it could have happened, e.g. right after the most extreme period of germanization and centralization of the Osterreich. Two generations after the Theresian and Josephinian reforms.

Do you know what those are? No? Then why the fuck are you talking about this subject? Why do you insist that you are right if you do not know the first thing about Austro-Hungarian history?

Again, what are you doing here? What do you think you'll achieve by telling a Czech born linguist that you may not know anything about Czech language, or history of the central europe, any anything else relevant to that matter, but you must be right because english records do not confirm it instantly?

Do you even realize how utterly absurd this discussion is? Why are you insisting that you know Czech history better than I do while admitting you don't know even the most basic shred of European history to begin with?

Why are you telling me that I'm wrong about the function of the national rebirth while admitting YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE NATIONAL REBIRTH WAS?!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0fSGSb1pns

I play KCD in Japanese.

>>713635468
>He plays a dub

>>713635093
>No, what I described happened in between 1790 and 1860.
No, what happened then was the Czech revival, which did not happen as you described. In fact, the Czech language was never entirely extinct - but its reintroduction in German-speaking where it *had been* entirely extinct at a population level, not merely a judicial level, happened later.

You fail to understand that we do understand what you are saying, but we dispute your version of events. You also fail to understand what we are saying actually happened. Indeed, you fail to understand a great many things here.

Now, you can namedrop historical events all you like which increasinly spurious connections to the topic at hand but that doesn't mean you are any more correct regarding what we are actually talking about, i.e. Czech going entirely extinct, which is plain false. Common sense agrees, the other Czech(?) guy who seems to have buggered off agrees, google agrees, so I'm sorry, unless you start giving concrete details regarding this idiosyncratic narrative of yours that has apparently been suppressed by the powers that be for inscrutable reasons, that's the answer I'm going with. I mean, I can't get this version of events from anywhere else but you right here, it seems, so you're going to have to tell me what the story is like in your head if you want me to respond substantially.

>>713635093
>>713636084
PS this is all assuming that the "national rebirth" is once again your idiosyncratic translation of an academic Czech term and refers to the wave of nationalist movements in Europe in the 19th century. If this is intended to be another, specifically Czech event you're expecting me to be somehow aware of then I can only say you are more deranged than I previously assumed.

>>713636084
>No, what happened then was the Czech revival, which did not happen as you described.
You literally admitted you don't know anything about Czech history. In fact, that you don't know what national rebirth was.
I am genuinely at a loss for words here. Your entirely argument is "I have no clue what you are talking about, this is the first time I'm hearing about it in my life, BUT YOU ARE WRONG!"

Like, what am I supposed to do here?
Imagine, child, that I came to you and told you "Yeah, English is an anglosaxon language, meaning it's closely related to German, with a bit of Gaelic influences, but has absolutely NO ties to France. That is impossible. France was English enemy."
And imagine that if you pointed out the conquest of Normandy to me, and all the cultural and language influences that caused, I'd reply with:
"Never heard of that, but you surely mean the time the British invaded france in 1944!"

What would you think of that exchange? Because that is EXACTLY the situation I'm in right now.

What, for GOD SAKE, gives you the confidence to say:
>the Czech revival, which did not happen as you described. In fact, the Czech language was never entirely extinct - but its reintroduction in German-speaking where it *had been* entirely extinct at a population level, not merely a judicial level, happened later.
You have not heard the term "national rebirth" before today. You STILL don't know what it is.

>You fail to understand that we do understand what you are saying, but we dispute your version of events.
You dispute events that you have never heard about before. And that is the fucking problem. You dispute it from a null position. Your argument is "I don't know about this threrfor it did not happen."

Do you not see why that does not work?

>Common sense agrees, the other Czech(?) guy who seems to have buggered off agrees
Yeah, I can see a professional linguist in front of me.
For fuck sake child. Wake up.

Anon, it's pointless. Whether he genuinely believes it or he's simply high off his rocks, we're not getting it through to him even if we dragged him back into a university hall and have his own prof give him a lecture.
I took solace in the fact he consistently dodges the question of his alma mater, which makes me believe he's genuinely just trolling and doing this out of boredom, rather than being a genuine retard. I advise you do as well.

>>713636373
Child, I gave you a few very simple questions to prove that you know what the national rebirth was.
You did not answer them. Until you do, you DO NOT GET TO PRETEND like your opinion on this subject is in any way relevant.

You either have the data, or you don't. If you don't, you get to sit quietly in the back, understand?

>>713636808
>You literally admitted you don't know anything about Czech history.
I told you, firstly, that your version of events beggared belief, secondly, that the other Anon's version seemed much more plausible, and thirdly, that I've verified it independently (which I believe you asked me to do in the first place).

>And imagine that if you pointed out the conquest of Normandy to me, and all the cultural and language influences that caused, I'd reply with:
>"Never heard of that, but you surely mean the time the British invaded france in 1944!"
All your analogy reveals is just how badly you still misunderstand this entire conversation. Yes, I'd be confused too, if my reading comprehension was as bad as yours.

>You have not heard the term "national rebirth" before today.
So, again, is this some obscure Czech event you're expecting the world to be aware of that you're billing as the most important event of the 19th century? Because I thought you were simply unaware, once again, that English does not use this term for the concept you were referring to, but that I otherwise understood what you were talking about. But now I'm not so sure, because the context heavily implies that this term only has meaning within a Czech context, and that, honestly, just makes it baffling to expect me to know what you are talking about.
Just to be clear, we also don't use the English term "National Rebirth" to refer to any particular event in Czech history, so maybe check what the accepted translation is.

>Yeah, I can see a professional linguist in front of me.
Which part are you disputing now? What part of that would cast aspersions on my credentials?

>>713636852
Yeah.... funny how you don't actually say what era is that supposed to be about? Wonderful cropping of literally the most important part of the text.

Because for an instance, in 1890's, in the already mentioned Badeni/Gautch laws, Czech was actually the first language of Austro-Hungary. As in - by law, whatever legal correspondence and dealing with the the authorities would have to happen in Czech if you so chose - the officials were legally not allowed to respond to you or give you forms in other language if you addressed them in Czech.
Meanwhile, during the height of Theresian reforms (1770-1780), speaking in Czech in classroom was 100% illegal. As in, as a teacher you would go to jail for it, and as a child, you'd be beaten for it.

You see, we are talking about MASSIVE fucking complex empire and history spanning a good 300+ years here.

But good job finding something that vaguelly looks like it confirms what you are saying and very obviously clipping off the part that actually proves you wrong.

>>713636989
>I gave you a few very simple questions to prove that you know what the national rebirth was.
And I made it abundantly clear that you will have to clarify to me what exactly you are referring to by this idiosyncratic term of yours, and if it is indeed what I already repeatedly demonstrated knowledge of, or something else entirely of which it would be unreasonable to expect me to know about it.

>>713637524
>I told you, firstly, that your version of events beggared belief
And I told you that when you hear something for the first time in your life, it is often confusing, but that does not matter that it is wrong. It just means you have massive gaps in your education.

>All your analogy reveals is just how badly you still misunderstand this entire conversation.
Just say "NUH UH, NUH UH" next time, it will save a lot of time. You repeating "you don't understand" isn't proving a point, it's proving a lack of one.

>So, again, is this some obscure Czech event you're expecting the world to be aware of
First of all, if you are not aware of it, then don't try to pass judgements on it, child.
It's that simple. You DO NOT KNOW. That alone should end this discussion.

However, at this point, the "You do not know" is starting to become "You can't read."
I'm not talking about Czech national rebirth. I have made that INSANELY clear several times.

I am talking about national rebirth movement. The biggest, most formative sociopolitical event chain of the 19th century, arguably, the biggest and most important one of the entire modern history.

I asked you where it started (hint, the answer was already posted by me, more than once, you just have to go and read what I already said), why, what was it's core thrust.

Because Czech national rebirth was incredibly marginal in the grand scheme of things, sure. Still does not excuse the fact that you keep insisting that I'm wrong about it while admitting that you do not know anything about it.

But it is excusable to not know the pecularities of Czech national rebirth movement. It was pretty fucking pathetic, all things considered.

But Czech national rebirth was a tiny product of again, the national rebirth movement. Which is something that is UNBELIVABLY important.

Again, you have the option to prove that you know why. Answer the questions above.

Otherwise, learn to shut up and listen when adults are talking.

>>713637724
I am willing to believe all of that, and yet that does not at all preclude illiterate peasants in the countryside from keeping the language alive, as a quick google indeed confirms they did.

>>713637725
>will have to clarify to me what exactly you are referring to by this idiosyncratic term of yours,
>National Rebirth movement
>Some obscure idiosyncratic term I've never heard off.

Yeah, that is the problem.
So, yeah. You are a "linguist", you say.
Does the name Wilhelm von Humboldt sound familiar to you?

>>713601768 (OP)
I'm more pissed about fantasy games all looking like the same generic shit. No unique landscapes, all just generic grasslands and mountains every time.

>>713638402
>And I told you that when you hear something for the first time in your life, it is often confusing, but that does not matter that it is wrong. It just means you have massive gaps in your education.
Or, sometimes it just means you are talking out of your arse. Again, whether you believe me or not: I am a linguist. I may now know about this specific event but I know the mechanisms involved. That caused my initial scepticism.
The fact that simply googling disproves you is just icing on the cake.
>You repeating "you don't understand" isn't proving a point,
Sorry, but I don't know how to get through to you at this point. Maybe like this:
Suppose I now took your analogy here >>713636808 to somehow mean that *you* genuinely think that the Norman conquest refers the the Invasion of Normandy, and refuse to let you explain otherwise. Such is the depth of your misunderstanding as well as the extent of your arrogance.

>I'm not talking about Czech national rebirth.
Okay, good, then I do actually know what you are talking about. Again, we do not use that term in English, and you seem somehow particularly averse to being understood, as if you're perversely devoted to preserving my perceived ignorance by carefully avoiding any clues that might lead me to reasonably determine what the fuck you're talking about.

So yes, obviously I know about the wave of nationalism that I've mentioned several times before including in the quoted post.

>But it is excusable to not know the pecularities of Czech national rebirth movement. It was pretty fucking pathetic, all things considered.
Well, there you go, my point exactly. Although, if you were to stand behind your previous words, I'd argue you're contradicting yourself now. Reviving a language from scratch is a momentous achievement, again, seldom seen in history, and in the 19th century, in a country with widespread illiteracy...

>>713638478
>yet that does not at all preclude illiterate peasants in the countryside from keeping the language alive
Actually, it does. The Theresian school reform was state-wide mandatory. It happened 3 generations before Dobrovsky proposed the project to "revive" the language. You can do the math, it's not hard.

>>713639198
Okay, do the math anon.
Tell me a year range when a foreigner would enter Bohemia and not hear any Bohemian spoken. After the German killed it and the Revival hadn't yet thrown a Phoenix Down flask at it.

>>713638909
Again, Anon, we do not use this term for this concept in English; I think "revival" is the more common one. You are clearly using your own translation of your native term, rather than the accepted equivalent in English, and again, you seemed to avoid giving any useful detail at all (what, afraid that I might look up something I actually don't know and parade my unearned knowledge before you?)

>>713639198
>illiterate
>school reform
Hmmm

Don't tell me this entire conversation is due to you forgetting to specify "as a literary language" near the start, don't let this be that dumb

>>713639164
>Or, sometimes it just means you are talking out of your arse.
I could be right, I could be wrong. What is absolutely 100% certain, is the fact that you CANNOT, BY DEFINITION, TELL. Because you do not know. You have no means to distinguish what is true and what is false.

What ever position you take here, you will be wrong. And you will be acting as an idiot.

Because by your own admission, this is a subject that is by your own admission, entirely, completely, 100% alien and incomprehensible to you.

Again, what do you think you'll achieve here?

>*you* genuinely think that the Norman conquest refers the the Invasion of Normandy, and refuse to let you explain otherwise.
Yes, that is exactly what I'm talking about. If I genuinely, with absolute confidence, believed I'm right. That Norman conquest could only refer to Invasion of Normandy. Even admitting that I've never heard the words "conquest of normady" but still insisting that I'm right and you are wrong.

It would be absolutely insane, would it not? Completely bewildering, breathtakingly idiotic, narcissistic, just out-of-this-world stupid, woudn't it?

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE DOING YOU RETARD: Congratulations, yeah, that was the point of the analogy. To illustrate how utterly, cosmically stupid you are. How absurd is what you are doing.

>Okay, good, then I do actually know what you are talking about.
If you are only now figuring this out, then you either can't read, or you are mentally retarded. I've explained this 5 times already.

>Again, we do not use that term in English
You do child, you do.

>So yes, obviously I know about the wave of nationalism
Where did it start. Why. Why was it so influential. SIMPLE QUESTIONS, CHILD. ANSWER THEM OR SHUT THE FUCK UP.

>>713639398
There is the possibility to build in some lyric and more sophisticated English without descending into century old English.
As long as the scene/context permits it of course.

>>713639372
>Tell me a year range when a foreigner would enter Bohemia and not hear any Bohemian spoken.
I literally did. Several times already, child. Let me help you, try crtl+alt and type the name Dobrovský" into the search window.

OP is a homosexual retard, as usual.

>>713639824
Again child. Do you know what the Theresian school reform entailed?

>>713601768 (OP)
Because you want your target audience to understand what the fuck the characters are saying.

>>713639698
>Again, Anon, we do not use this term for this concept in English
I can literally see about 5000 english-written academic paper with the words "National Rebirth".
And no, you don't use the word "Revival". Because that is an entirely different concept.

National Revival talks about, well, revival of pre-existing, but dormant, national identity.
National Rebirth is a creation of a completely new, previous non-existent national identity.

It is a process in which a non-national society transforms into a national one. It is reborn as a national society, as opposed to pre-existing forms of statehood strategy.

And look - if you are entirely new to this, if you never studied history at all, if the whole nationalism problem is just alien to you, that is fine.
It's OK to not know.

Just fucking admit that YOU DO NOT KNOW. And thus, you can't tell others that they are wrong. You can't tell if they are right either.

This is clearly an entirely new world to you, and that would be fine. Just fucking admit that you are talking about something you don't understand and can't judge.
It's that simple. Act like a human.

>>713639991
>What is absolutely 100% certain, is the fact that you CANNOT, BY DEFINITION, TELL
Yes, and to borrow an analogy, you cannot tell me for sure that there is not a teapot floating in space between Earth and Mars, but that does not mean that you cannot rely on prior knowledge and common sense to weigh the possibilities one way or the other.
Still, I did tell you initially that I was quite interested in hearing you tell the tale; but I was only met with disparagement for my scepticism. And as the evidence mounted that your position is quite fringe and the accepted version of reality actually aligns much closer with what my expectations would suggest, which are furthermore not entirey lay expectations either, well... I'm pretty sure I can tell, now.

>this is a subject that is by your own admission, entirely, completely, 100% alien and incomprehensible to you.
Not at all. It is an area of historical linguistics I am not well-read in, but already more so than I was at the start of this conversation, and I have a basis in general theory to start from. How you arrived at "100% alien and incomprehensible" from that is beyond me, but perhaps you always think in extremes? Entirely extinct or thriving language, expert or complete ignoramus, nothing in between?

>>713640119
>>713640119
Okay, so here's the date?
>By 1800, spoken Czech didn't really exist. Dobrovsky, who was the grandparent of the whole project, and outlined the plan to reinvent the language, never wrote or spoke a single work in Czech himself.

Fine then, here's a report from Pierre Toussaint Marcel de Serres de Mesplès, sent by Napoleon to make a trip across the Habsburg Monarchy in 1809. He wrote a book about all of it, published in 1814.
>https://archive.org/details/voyageenautrich00bertgoog/page/n34/mode/2up?q=Boheme
See pic related discussing the state of the language on the ground.
Here's a quick TL;DR:
>The only solely German area is Ellbogen.
>There are some in the middle part of the listed areas.
>Prachin, Csaslau, Beraun and Kaurczim are Czech-exclusive
>The capital contains a considerable number of Slavs and they constitute about two thirds of the kingdom's population.

Perhaps you are linguistically challenged? French is hard, after all. Then no problem, there's a good Polish guy who did a published article on the description of Slavs and their languages in this work.
>https://czasopisma.marszalek.com.pl/images/pliki/hso/31/hso3103.pdf

So? Do you finally admit you're just a fucking troll trying to waste everyone's time?

>>713640028
this is just pretension. you can still find sophisticated modern english if you look at academic papers or books that aren't pop entertainment, but that's not what people like op are asking for. they want ye olde shakespeare because they're theater kids who think it's big brain while forgetting that shakespeare was the low brow entertainment of his time.

>>713639991
(contd. because wow you triggered my autism)
>Yes, that is exactly what I'm talking about. If I genuinely, with absolute confidence, believed I'm right.
No, rather if I, despite any clarification you offer, keep insisting that yes, this is what you believe, how can you be so dumb, I don't have to listen to a thing you said.
>Even admitting that I've never heard the words "conquest of normady"
Pedantic case in point, it's the Norman Conquest (by the Normans, of England) and the Invasion of Normandy (by the Allies). Now suppose I consistently used the term "Conquest of Normandy" and you asked me which event I referred to or if there is possibly another, more obscure conquest of Normandy you're unaware of, I only reply asking how you can be so ignorant so as not to have heard of the Conquest of Normandy, you fool, you imbecile?
>If you are only now figuring this out, then you either can't read, or you are mentally retarded. I've explained this 5 times already.
If you are only now figuring out that I knew all along, and your repeated insistence to the contrary despite me clearly demonstrating that I knew only confused things, then, well, either you can't read or etc. etc.
>Where did it start. Why. Why was it so influential. SIMPLE QUESTIONS
Yes, but also quite irrelevant, actually, and I'm already typing novels, god damn, and I have a feeling you'll dispute the answer no matter what.
Again, this tells us nothing about the Czech language situation or its revival effort, only contextualises it.

>>713640209
No, I'll happily admit ignorance on the matter if it means you'll finally explain a single thing

>>713640981
>I can literally see about 5000 english-written academic paper with the words "National Rebirth".
Post one then

And here's a supplementary map to >>713641226 since if anon is really genuine, he never could have finished high school history course, much less a linguistics degree.

Notice how the Elbogen the French says is the only fully German area is... surprise to fucking nobody, in the Sudetenland. The area that got purged of Germans post-WW2.
And this is 1809...

>>713601768 (OP)
anon... people talked almost exactly the same back then as we do now. ye was pronounced the for example.

>>713641074
>but that does not mean that you cannot rely on prior knowledge
That is so hilariously disingenious I'm not sure if I even want to break this bullshit down.

Child, you do not have any prior knowledge that you could use in this context.
You don't know the history of Czech language, you have no prior knowledge of it.
You do not know the history of Austro-Hungarian Empire. You have no prior knowledge of it.
You do not know anything about language evolution.
You do not know modern history a all.
I could go on.

And you just tried to deny the possibility of history taking place PURELY because you haven't heard of it, and tried to compare it to a teapot near Mars.

Newsflash, a teapot near Mars is a CATEGORICAL impossibility. It CONTRADICTS OUR LAWS OF POSSIBILITY.
The history of Czech's death and revival does not contradict any possibilities. It's just something YOU haven't heard about.

You. A highschool drop-out retard. Yeah. No. That argument does not work.

>>713641074
>but I was only met with disparagement for my scepticism.
Wrong. You have been given an EXTENSIVE AND DETAILED account of the events and many pointers as to where to start your research.

Here. >>713624787
A objective, undeniable evidence that you have been given exactly what you asked for.

You are lying. You aren't interested, you are insecure, threatened, and lying.

If you were interested, you would not respond to >>713624787 by declaring me a liar.
You would be, as I said, neck-deep in papers right now.

Why do you lie like this?
Are you aware that it has became a pathological compulsion at this point?
Aren't you concerned that people can see that you are an absolutely untrustworthy, pathologic liar?

>>713641434
Again. Stop lying. >>713626053

A post you are too scared to reply to. Further extensive evidence that I absolutely, 100% tried to accomodate you and educate you, and gave you what you need to continue studying.

So again.
Are you aware of the fact that you have become a compulsive liar?
Did you lose control of what you are doing? Or was this a choice of you, you just decided to be this pathetic?

What made you fail this hard at being a human being? Do you even consider the concept of shame?

>>713640209
>>713641517
Like, god damn, at the outset I was all like
>Sounds far-fetched but I'll hear him out
and over the course of hours you've still failed to teach a single thing but I have grown convinced you're an insufferable prick.
You've not just failed to reward my curiosity, I feel actively punished for showing an interest in something I am less knowledgeable about. You vacillate between expecting me to know obscure details of Czech history and mistakenly assuming ignorance about basic facts due entirely to your own misunderstanding, which you still can't own up to. Obviously I don't know what the Theresian school reform entailed, but god fucking dammit, how many times could you have told me by now instead of going on and on about national rebirth?

>>713641226
I'm just going to point out this little mathematical formula that you could try to figure out:

Being Czech =/= speaking Czech.
You do the rest of the math.

>>713642059
>I could go on.
No, you should have stopped at "Czech language" actually. Maybe this would all go a lot smoother if you'd stop insulting my intelligence.
>And you just tried to deny the possibility of history taking place PURELY because you haven't heard of it, and tried to compare it to a teapot near Mars.
This is another misunderstanding on your part, which probably means you'll never address what I'll write next. No, I am not denying "history taking place"; I am saying that, given two possible versions of events which I cannot, at the moment, confirm, I can rely on prior knowledge to judge which is more likely.
>Newsflash, a teapot near Mars is a CATEGORICAL impossibility.
So are you genuinely autistic? To miss the point so spectacularly and repeatedly?
>ou have been given an EXTENSIVE AND DETAILED account of the events
If by "extensive and detailed" you mean "fragmentary" and "riddled with derision" then yes. Beyond that, any pointer I actually followed to actual sources all taught me the opposite of what you're saying, but that doesn't count I guess.
>A objective, undeniable evidence that you have been given exactly what you asked for.
That post contains plenty of externally verifiable information but what is lacking here is precisely the point of contention, that modern Czech is a constructed language based on a then-extinct language. It is precisely this ludicrous claim of yours that's up for debate and that still goes unexplained.
>If you were interested, you would not respond to >>713624787 by declaring me a liar.
Well, now, I don't think I did? I responded to another claim of yours that is a lie, the one I actually can't verify anywhere.

>>713642361
Child, I have actually explained everything you asked for.

You said you are interested in the history of Czech revival/reinvention.
>>713626053
You asked me to say when Czech stopped being used.
>>713624787
You want to know what the Theresian school reform was?
>>713637724
>>713639198

I have been giving you the info this whole time.

You lie. You lie to me about things I told you, in a thread where I can quote the threads in question.

So the question is again:
What the FUCK are you doing?

>>713642549
Anon, put that text into Deepl because I'm not going to teach you French here.
He explicitly says they speak Czech. That's the whole point. How else do you think he'd tell them apart? You think they had it written on their forehead or someshit?
>L'allemand et le bohcme sont les deux langues les plus répandues dans ce royaume. Le bohème se distingue par sa richesse , sa douceur, et l'harmonie de ses expressions. Cette langue mélodieuse se prête aux inflexions du chant, ce qui favorise encore les dispositions naturelles du Bohême pour la musique. Assez douce par ellemême, elle s'altère tous les jours par l'introduction des mots allemands ou hongrois. Plusieurs savans voudroient empêcher ce mélange , qui ne peut être favorable à la langue bohème ; aussi chercbent-ils d'eii4)roscrire l'usage. Où peut observer que cette langue est plus répandue que dans le siècle passe ; ce qu'oo doit attribuer aux toavaux de Felzel, Dnrich, Cramerius, Dobrowsky, Prochaslui; Tomsa et Negedly. Dans toutes les affaires pubUipies^ on ne 96 sert que derallemand, et cette langue est eu usflge dans presque toutes les Tilles. Ce qu'elle offre de particulier en Bohême , c'est que chaque canton a pour ainsi dire son ^dialecte i part, qui présente souvent d'assez grandes différences. Le plus pur de ces dialectes est celui qu'dn emploie'dans les enrironsdes frontières de la Saxe et de la Lusace , ainsi que dans les environs de Saatz.

>>713642297
>A post you are too scared to reply to.
What exactly did you expect me to reply to it that I haven't told you elsewhere?
You know, funny thing, I did look of Dobrovsky, and the Czech revival project, quite early on in this conversation. I don't need you to repeat those names. What I'd like to know is why everything I can find on these topics contradicts you (and, incidentally, confirms what the other guy was saying all along). It seems that if there is a compulsive liar here it's not me.

So yeah, you didn't teach me shit, you forced me to sift the facts from your bullshit

>>713643073
>Maybe this would all go a lot smoother if you'd stop insulting my intelligence.
You are yet to display any, you braindead lying cunt.

EVERYTHING YOU SAID THROUGH THIS THREAD WAS DISINGENIOUS, OR OUTRAGEOUSLY NARCISSTIC.

YOU DO NOT GET TO EXPECT PEOPLE TREATING YOU WITH RESPECT.


>This is another misunderstanding on your part,
There is no misunderstanding. You have lied, and tried to burry the lead. Because you cannot even for a second admit that you are wrong.

Even when you admit you don't know anything about the subject, you actually conclude that you are right.

That is the simple fact of this exchange.

>So are you genuinely autistic?
Says the person who did not understand the analogy with the invasion of normandy? Really?


>If by "extensive and detailed" you mean "fragmentary" and "riddled with derision" then yes.
Nothing about this >>713626053 was framentary OR riddled with derision.

And yes. After that, I started treating you like a fucking retard, because you sided with a guy who though National Rebirth movement refered to something in 1944.

Get used to being treated like a retard, because that is what you are. You are so fucking stupid it s beyond my belief. I teach for a living and I cannot begging wrapping my head around something so monumentally stupid, arrogant, braindead, insecure, and in every human measure SHIT creature as you are.

Being Czech, I'm very, very much aware of the awful that was human eugenic program.

You may be the first "human" I've ever seen I'd sign up for T4 without a single nanosecond of hesitation.

And I promise, PROMISE to you. Everyone who has ever talked to you would not blame me. Not even your family.
I want you to understand this. You did not act ONCE in this exchange in a way that would entitle you to being treated as a human.

>>713643187
>You want to know what the Theresian school reform was?
Ah so your concept of educating means "I actually already namedropped this, how can you not know all the details"
Yes, obviously I know what sparse details you've sprinkled ITT, silly me for thinking there might be more to know. Well, I guess I am now an expert on the Czech language revival, and speaking from authority, I must say you're full of shit.

Again, the only things you told me that I couldn't have gleaned from wikipedia and google are the parts expicitly contradicted by them.

>>713601768 (OP)
You know it would help your argument if you also used correct prose.

>>713643214
>How else do you think he'd tell them apart?
Census, you fucking retard. How do you think he got that fucking data? You think he did a questionnaire research?

>>713643776
>Ah so your concept of educating means "I actually already namedropped this, how can you not know all the details"
Yes. Knowing about things other people don't usually know. That is what I call education.

Your concept of "education" seems to be "I haven't heard of it so it is wrong."

The guy who says "it's important to actually know all the information" vs. the guy who literally says "Not knowing anything makes me right".

I wonder who is the more sensible one here...

>>713643502
You claimed your are linguist. You can't search the catalogue for papers with that key?

Yeah, no child. Again. I know you are lying, you know you are lying. So... what is the point of this?

>>713643740
>>713643740
>EVERYTHING YOU SAID THROUGH THIS THREAD WAS DISINGENIOUS, OR OUTRAGEOUSLY NARCISSTIC.
Ah, we're at the DARVO part of the exchange?
>There is no misunderstanding.
There absolutely is - I can see how you interpreted my words and it is not what I intended. You cannot claim to know this better than me.
>Says the person who did not understand the analogy with the invasion of normandy?
Anon, I repurposed it to address something YOU did not understand. Was that not clear? How do you keep not getting this?
>After that, I started treating you like a fucking retard, because you sided with a guy who though National Rebirth movement refered to something in 1944.
HOW ARE YOU STILL ON THIS? HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO EXPLICITLY EXPLAIn TO YOU THAT YOU COMPLETELY, EGREGIOUSLY MISUNDERSTOOD WHAT WAS MEANT?
God damn you even misunderstood my analogy regarding this IN THE SAME WAY
You have zero good faith. You assume hostility and inferiority by default. Your terrible reading comprehension probably accounts for at least half of this train wreck and you still cannot own up to it.
>I teach for a living
God help them, of all the things you've lied about, I most hope this is one of them. They'd be better off skimming wikipedia.

>>713644343
Listen, man, if you're going to educate me, tell me something that
1. I can't find on wikipedia
2. Isn't contradicted by wikipedia or another easily acessible source
3. Is sourced

Other Anon cited his sources.

>>713601768 (OP)
>>713602521
Fuck off with this pompous dogshit. No one right in their head want this kind of crap.
FromSoft games and Dragon's Dogma using that type of dialogue is one of the main reasons I never bothered to finish them or even touch any further games they make. It's just obnoxious and makes the whole thing sound hyper pretentious. On top of that, they don't even get that type of speaking right, they just sort of do some guess work where they might fit and then they just keep spamming them in conjunction with each other to the point you can't even tell what they mean anymore.

You don't want a fun game, you just want a hyper realistic rendition of historic down to a T that would help sate your autistic fixation on that type of shit. At that point you might just as well ditch the English all together and demand that the whole thing is voiced in Latin, since that was the base main connecting language they used to speak to each other like we use English now.

>>713644343
Also I can't help but notice just how few of the things I "LITERALLY ADMITTED TO" I actually even came remotely close to saying.

>>713644038
Yes, and the census data told him about... how Czech sounds. How Slovak sounds. Gave him the idea of Slowaques bohémiens, etc.

>>713644412
>Ah, we're at the DARVO part of the exchange?
None of this was an exchange, child.

You have not said anything of any value, relevance, or even meaning this whole conversation.

Do you even realize that?
Do you realize how fucking sad that is?

>There absolutely is - I can see how you interpreted my words and it is not what I intended.
Either you can't talk, or which is far more likely, based on a mountain of evidence I just provided:

You.
Are.
Lying.
Again.

>Anon, I repurposed it to address something YOU did not understand.
No child. You pointed out that dealing with someone obviously and stupid would be very frustrating.

Which was the point of the analogy. It demonstrated the fundamentally flawed nature of your position.

You STILL don't understand that it is supposed to mirror what you are doing.

I wonder if there is a word for narcissism so severe that the person just loses any semblance of self-awareness, because that very much seems to be what happened to you.

>HOW ARE YOU STILL ON THIS?
On the subject of the discussion you mean? On the thing that proves you are a liar you mean?

HOW AM I STILL BRINGING UP THE THING THAT PROVES ME RIGHT?!

I'm bringing it up because it subject of this farce, and also, objective evidence of your bullshit.
That is why I still am at this, child. Because unlike you, I don't randomly run away from a point ever five seconds. Unlike you, this isn't just a desperate, pathetic chain of distracting from my older bullshit to me.

I have a point. I prove that point to you. If you even REMOTELY resembled a human being, that would be the place where you admit you were wrong. And would could put this farce behind us.

>>713644654
Literally been doing that for the entire thread. Even being duing sum-ups. Here. >>713643187
That should get you started.

>>713644882
>Yes, and the census data told him about... how Czech sounds.
No, it told him what ethnic group those people were legally registered as. Based on laws that existed before the germanization was succesful.

There was only one place he could have heard what Czech may have sounded, and that was the german department of slavistic, where at that year (1809), Dobrovský, at the time probably the best slavist in the world, was teaching his theories and methods on figuring out what the language may have sounded like. Based on, as I said, works of medieval authors.

Slovak would not be invented for another 50 years, by the way. "Slovaks" spoke hungarian. Unlike Czech, which died and was reinvented, Slovak didn't exist at all.
What constitutes slovakia now was never a unified territory, never developed language or culture of their own. It was just an constantly disputed area between Bohemian and Hungarian kingdoms. For the most time, Hungarians had the upper hand over it.

>This entire thread

>>713645042
Anon, for fuck's sake, this is not a lie, this is me being 100% sincere with you:

You misunderstood swathes of this entire conversation. In ways so severe I do not understand how you are functioning.

Here is a hint: literally not one person in this thread claimed, in earnest or even in jest, that the Czech national revival happened after WWII. I am telling you now, no one here will claim that as fact, and I would not defend it. If you still believe otherwise, it means you have misunderstood the conversation. And if you have misunderstood such a fundamental aspect of this conversation so severely, and are unable of even considering it, unable to grasp the myriad explanations you have thus far been provided with, then trying to convince us that Czech was an extinct language in the 1800s is the least of your problems. Get checked for brain tumours or something.

>>713601768 (OP)
I don't want to need a degree in Medieval languages to understand the characters

>>713645506

>>713645487
>Literally been doing that for the entire thread.
No, the thing is you haven't, and that's precisely the problem. Every contentious claim of yours is in fact trivially disproved both by a quick trip to wikipedia and the actual sources posted ITT, and despite what your unwarranted sense of superiority tells you, no one ever bothered to dispute anything else. Sure, Dobrovsky started the revival around the 1800s, great, I'll believe you.
But when you start contradicting common sense and established sources, you'll need to do more than namedrop.

>>713645534
>Anon, for fuck's sake, this is not a lie, this is me being 100% sincere with you:
You are lying to me or you are lying to yourself. Not sure which one is worse.

Just to not switch from the dream of you being gassed to death to actively fucking fight the urge to buy a ticket to UK and strangle you myself, I'm going to assume that you are just lying to me, and that you aren't THAT delusional.

>You misunderstood swathes of this entire conversation.
No, kid. I did not misunderstand anything. This is a lie you tell to yourself in face of the fact that you don't have anything else to say.

I understand you perfectly. Every shit you spew through this thread was entirely clear.

It just was dishonest shit.

>in earnest or even in jest, that the Czech national revival happened after WWII.
That is a lie, and I'm tired of scrolling up and linking the relevant posts.

>unable to grasp the myriad explanations you have thus far been provided with
You have not made any explanations.

Seriously, again. Does it not worry you that you are compulsively driven to continuously and exclusively lie for what now mounts for some 4 hours straight?

Is this what you want to be?

>>713645815
Just... >>713643187


You do realize that this shit is actually out there, right. That other people can actually see that, right? You do realize these posts won't disappear when you close your eyes, right?

Most of everyone spoke in American accents in Conan the Barbarian and Xena and no one had any problems with that tho?

>>713646012
>You are lying to me or you are lying to yourself.
It is neither. If you would, for once, entertain the possibility that you have misunderstood something, it might open up a whole new world to you. A world in which you may have to admit to being wrong sometimes, but in which you might actually learn something.
>buy a ticket to UK
The UK? Anon, I thought you were a linguist. Have you not been paying attention?

I repeat myself: you have misunderstood me and other Anon at numerous times throughout this thread, in ways so egregious it in fact beggars belief and that I think are indicative of some sort of personality disorder, but nonetheless, it's not too late for you take this attempt at reaching out and establishing some measure of mutual understanding.

>>713646116
Yes Anon, I already told you, thank you for the things I could verify on wikipedia, but those are not the things that are in dispute.

>>713646357
Those were just flicks.

>>713645487
Locals always used different dialects of Czech, that's how it survived.

"Literary" Czech is just a standardised version of language that borrowed some things from Polish, since it was documented way better and also borrowed some words from Czech in the first place, like kościół, and no one is really using it other than people who specifically study it.

>>713645487
>Slovak would not be invented for another 50 years, by the way. "Slovaks" spoke hungarian. Unlike Czech, which died and was reinvented, Slovak didn't exist at all.
>What constitutes slovakia now was never a unified territory, never developed language or culture of their own. It was just an constantly disputed area between Bohemian and Hungarian kingdoms. For the most time, Hungarians had the upper hand over it.
So you're saying Slovak was invented by Napoleon Bonaparte's surveyors when they dropped bombs like this:
>le seul comté de Zolgym , qui porte en langue slawe le nom de Swolenskw Stoliza.
And then they traveled to Switzerland to read the book on Austria to learn how those people invented a language where people are called Slowaques, similar to the Slovenians and have places called "Zvolenskuo Stolica" which just so happens to actually fit the language in question?
Fucking rad. Thank you, mister teacher/linguist.

>>713601768 (OP)
then you'd scream about dialog bloat because everything takes twice as long to say
shut the fuck up

>>713646550
Well HoMM and the Elder Scrolls and even Warcraft had burger accents

>>713646357
>Conan the Barbarian
>American accent

>>713646873
Damn I'm really glad you're here to show up this pompous blowhard so effortlessly
Incidentally, if there's one thing 4chan taught me it's to be sceptical of people who insist very hard upon their authority and fly into a rage when challenged. Even if I don't know anything about the topic, I'm not about to take anything from someone like that, no matter how much jargon they always seem to be able to namedrop.
But I guess you are an example of the actual confidence that real expertise begets.

>>713647154
Yeah, Thulsa Doom was voiced by James Earl Jones

Look, god is my witness that I've fucking tried.
I went back, did a sweep of the thread, picked and cited every single relevant post and line, now 4chan thinks it's a spam, so... I'm not going to waste my time on this.

What you pretend didn't happen, happened between here:
>>713629780
and here.
>>713619096

As a fun sidenote: the guy you are so desperately defending also claimed that we murdered 3 million germans, here:
>>713623680
I actually missed that. Well, that is about as deranged as you fucking mongoloids get, I suppose. For the record, there weren't even that many germans left in in Czechoslovakia, in fact even if we count germans and hungarians together that would still be nearly as twice as many as were affected.

About 1-3 thousand people died, which is absolutely an awful thing for sure, no excuse for those massacres, but it wasn't a genocide, it was opportunistic lootery and vigilantee justice.
About 1.5 million people lost their homes, about 1.3 of them were forcefully kicked out of the country, the rest was allowed to stay, albeit almost never in their original homes.

Sad serious of events, for sure, but... the fact that one of you mongoloids presents that as a "genocide of 3 million innocent germans" is just very illustrative of the level of honesty you people are working at.

I'm so tired of your boundless stupidity.

But par for the course of this exchange.

You’re looking for historical accuracy in a game where the two leads are sodomites and somehow aren’t killed by the end?

>>713647987
>What you pretend didn't happen, happened between here:
Anon, I am perfectly aware of what the contents of those posts. You really need not have bothered. You are repeating a misunderstanding you have repeated in various forms throughout this thread. I am not disputing the existence of those posts. I am disputing your interpretation of them.

Now, I could also scroll up to find the posts where I already repeatedly explained the actual intended meaning... but first I have to ask, would you honestly consider it?

>>713646727
>"Literary" Czech is just a standardised version of language
Actually literary Czech is a mixture of Bohemian vocabulary and Moravian grammar, which is why to most people from cities like Prague, Moravian dialect can sound hyper-correct.

However, when we talk about Prague or Moravian dialect, we are talking about what was collected from sources from inbetween late 13th to late 16th century, and this compromise of mixing two former dialects into one was made to help keeping both parties coherent, even though linguistically and historically it didn't make sense, those two things were not supposed to be used together.

Czech really was dead for a while there. I'm trying to figure out why this notion seems to be so terrifying to you people.

There was one slovak here, but he very quickly realized this isn't a good place for him to be.

I could understand if some other Czech guy was having this kind of bizzare meltdown here, because there is a lot of SPD tier Czechs who are in very deep denial about our own history, but I have no fucking clue what is wrong with you people.

>>713648313
>Anon, I am perfectly aware of what the contents of those posts.
And yet you chose to lie about them.
Why?

>>713644736
>FromSoft games and Dragon's Dogma using that type of dialogue is one of the main reasons I never bothered to finish them or even touch any further games they make
Imagine getting filtered by not one but TWO multiple good series because of the way the dialogue is written. Actual subhuman mongoloid behaviour.

>>713647987
>>713648313
Also, actually, fun sidenote to the fun sidenote: he did not claim that 3 million Germans were killed either. He used the term "genocide" to refer to an unknown number of Germans, but when referring to the 3 million number specifically, he used the term "ethnic cleansing" instead and describes events not unlike what you yourself describe: mass displacement interspersed with massacres on a civilian population.
"Genocide" may be hyperbolic but it was ethnically motivated killing, and displacement also falls under ethnic cleansing.
I admit the language could be clearer but again you also seem determined to go for the worst possible interpretation to hold against people.

>>713648865
Anon, for fuck's sake, I explicitly explained it right there in the very post you're currently quoting and misunderstanding:

I dispute your interpretation.

>>713648313
>but first I have to ask, would you honestly consider it?
After you do it.

Actually, the truth is, I am doing that, the whole time.
You meanwhile, repeatedly told me that this is some obscure history you don't know anything about it, while saying "Your description of it is wrong."

How about that, child. Are you going to address this point you keep making?

>>713648265

>>713648601
>There was one slovak here, but he very quickly realized this isn't a good place for him to be.
So this post that you failed to address isn't him, you reckon? >>713646873

>>713648914
>number specifically, he used the term "ethnic cleansing"
Yeah.
Because moving people to a different country after the commited grand treason is "ethnical clensing".

Again, you are making my point for me. You will actually stand here claiming that the word "ethnical clensic" does not refer to killing.

No, child. Genocide means organized attempt to kill or cull certain population. Ethnical clensing means mass murder with the explicit intent to wipe out an ethnic group.

What happened, was repatriation. It was done awfully, so many horrible mistakes were made, but to pretend, even for one microsecond, that repatriation is an ethnical clensing, is just like literally everything you ever say:

A FUCKING MASSIVE LIE.
But thank you, for once you provided me with evidence of your lies in a way does not force me to scroll up.

>>713649036
>ou meanwhile, repeatedly told me that this is some obscure history you don't know anything about it
You mean as obscure as my earlier clarifications are to you?

The point you misunderstood is that he was disputing, from the start, that Czech was ever a dead language that was reintroduced in a non-Czech speaking populace, and he was saying that the only historical instance of Czech being (re-)introduced to a previously German speaking area happened well after the period you claimed, and not from scratch but simply by displacing the German population with native Czech speakers. In other words, they are not the same and that is the whole point. You somehow interpreted this as him saying the Czech revival happened during that period, when he said the opposite.

>>713649208
I think you might be breaking, child. The slovak left, a good while ago, after our little non-english exchange-
I actually really respect him, he had the integrity to admit this can't end well for him and leave. You should have learned from that.

The desperately flooding the discussion with shit after shit isn't the slovak. He is just someone who saw the name mentioned in something so he keep brining him up.
He is also the guy who deliberately cropped one source to hide evidence that it's false, and the rest of his point is literally based on the assumption that census ethnicity means language.

Which, ironically enough, is a notion that literally only came into existence with the national rebirth movement.

>>713649408
>You will actually stand here claiming that the word "ethnical clensic" does not refer to killing.
Yeah, I will. Because it doesn't. It is not a synonym of genocide. Do me a favour, google this one, and admit for the first time you were wrong about something. Not out of pettiness but to see if you're capable of it.

>>713649650
>You mean as obscure as my earlier clarifications are to you?
Your clarification was that you have prior knowledge so you are right. And you compared the possibility of you just not knowing enough about the subject being identical to the possibility of a teapot flying near Mars.

That is not a clarification. That is, like everything you do, a dishonest piece of shit. A lie.

Still waiting for you to tell me what the national rebirth really was, where it started, why, and what made it so influential, by the way.

>>713649708
>The slovak left
Oh, so that's, what, three? Four people, then? Who think you're full of shit.

>>713606898
Slovak is a language made up in 19th century fero

>>713649851
>It is not a synonym of genocide.
That is funny you should point that out.
Because the guy you are "defending" used them as synonyms.

Why do you do this to yourself?

>>713649975
Two. Plus one that realized that I'm right and wisely left.

One of you literally argues that ignorance makes him right, and the other posts provably falsified evidence.

So yeah... numbers don't mean shit here.

or just play in German or Czech. Fuck english.

This entire thread is an all-time classic of this poxy website and it bums me out that so few people will read it.

>>713649954
>Your clarification was that you have prior knowledge so you are right.
No, Anon, you are confusing two entirely different threads of this conversation now - and misrepresenting both while you're at it.
So, let me once again clarify this for you as well:
Being knowledgeable about linguistics allows me to reasonably assess the plausibility of your claim. I am not making a blind guess, as you insist I am.
>And you compared the possibility of you just not knowing enough about the subject being identical to the possibility of a teapot flying near Mars.
No, also not the point of that comparison. The point here is that, indeed, as YOU DID in this regard, though you can neither confirm nor disprove the teapot's existence empirically, you can judge its plausibility rather than being forced to guess between two possibilities.

So you see, I did not lie about these things, you misunderstood me. And you are also misunderstanding me if you think either of these points relate to the current point of contention, which was, let's see again, oh yes, whether anyone claimed the Czech revival occurred after WWII. Now, given this new-found insight that you have been misunderstanding a few things, does that lead you to reassess matters somewhat?

>>713650054
>Because the guy you are "defending" used them as synonyms.
No. I did already say this could have been clearer but he did not unequivocally use them interchangeably, so to insist upon that interpretation to the exclusion of a more generous one is dishonest.

>>713601768 (OP)
>gets all his history info from renaissance fairs and monty python

>>713650230
Anon, the guy woh left didn't "realise you were right", he called you an embarrassment to your field and ducked in at least one more time to point out, in English, that you are either insane or trolling. And, in fact, that was the very post in which he also provided the "falsified evidence", so you are clearly not following something here (and also hoping I wouldn't bother to translate your non-English exchange, I suppose).

>>713650370
>Being knowledgeable about linguistics allows me to reasonably assess the plausibility of your claim.
No, it does not do that. For two reasons: 1) you are not even remotely knowledgable about linguistics (remember when I asked who Wilhelm von Humboldt was?), and 2) actual knowledge of linguistics does not contradict what I'm stating in any way.
Neither have you made a SINGLE linguistically informed reason, other than "it didn't happen in Ireland, so it could not happen here!"

Hell, you claimed there was only one notable event in which a previously dead language was revided into a majority and state language.

I've asked you what you are talking about. One of thousands of unanswered questions you left behind.
And yeah, I know you meant hebrew, because that is the only one the Wiki states.
Because, oh dear god me, turns out wiki isn't very good source of academic information.

Something someone who has linguistic background, would be very aware of.

>>713601768 (OP)
>doesn't play in czech

>>713650553
>No. I did already say this could have been clearer
You are very clear, child. There is no misunderstanding here.

You are just full of shit.

>>713650763
>Anon, the guy woh left didn't "realise you were right", he called you an embarrassment to your field
The guy was reminded of the fact that A) 90% of educated people in his country got their education in Czech republic, so maybe throwing shade on our education isn't the best idea, and B) that the sole reason why he does not speak Hungarian right now.
After that, he quietly vacated the premises. Good for him. Saved his face. Again, you could learn from that.

>>713650970
I dispute 1) on the basis that I am at least confident enough to state that you are wrong about 2). Both entirely eradicating a language and reviving a completely dead language are quite difficult to do. Does that mean it is impossible? No, of course not - but that's why I need specifics. And knowing a specific year or hearing you repeat the words "national rebirth" one more time isn't going to cut it.
Language is not learnt primarily at schools, it is learnt at home first. Even the heaviest repression cannot entirely penetrate the private sphere. Now, of course, the easy answer for you is "well in this case it did!" but again, I am merely voicing my scepticism.
>Hell, you claimed there was only one notable event in which a previously dead language was revided into a majority and state language.
Indeed, though I wasn't the first to so in this thread, so in fact the question had already been answered before you even posed it. And, of course, you would claim that is false, because everything that disagrees with you is false without further qualification, but I do have to wonder, if all the sources disagree with you, where can I actually verify what you are saying?

>>713651109
>You are very clear, child.
Indeed, I like to think I am, and yet you misunderstand me even now.
When I said "this could have been clearer" that referred to the other guy's words, you know, the ones I believe you are misinterpreting? How many levels of misunderstanding are we on now? You don't understand me trying to clarify what you failed to understand about my earlier clarification about what you initially failed to understand? On what basis do you keep insisting that you understand perfectly when you seem to make a hobby of doing the opposite.

>>713651320
This is pure fan-faction and, again, directly contradicted by the fact that he DID NOT LEAVE. But I guess that is one more thing you didn't understand.

>>713601768 (OP)
Kingdom come is woke
They literally say retarded shite like antisemitism sk when that fucking word hadn't even been created yet

>complains abotu medieval accuracy in a pozzed out bait & switch game
lol
lmao

>>713601768 (OP)
1. nobody played the game in the original language

2. i doubt even czech people would understand 15th century czech, same way english speakers can't understand pre vowel shift old english

I still can't find a single source mentioning that Czech was ever a dead language, only ever explicitly the opposite: that it survived thanks to a relatively small number of speakers even under Habsburg suppression.

I have found many throwaway references to the "National *Revival*" however. God dammit. You did it again. I just keep falling for this shit, huh

>>713652053
English is a bit of an outlier in this regard, admittedly.

>>713651514
>I dispute 1) on the basis that I am at least confident enough to state that you are wrong about
Your confidence is evidence of you being right, huh.
Brilliant, child. Really brilliant argument you made there. That is how knowledge works: You scream something very loudly and never, ever, ever question whenever you are right or wrong. If you are confident, that makes you right!"

Do you not see the irony of you constantly asking me to consider that I may be wrong when this is literally your argument:
You absolutely do not question whenever you are right or wrong, and that PROVES YOU RIGHT!"

You do understand why I cannot treat you as a human being, right?

>Both entirely eradicating a language and reviving a completely dead language are quite difficult to do
Fun fact. One language will day out entirely roughly every 14 days.
And reviving it isn't that hard when you have the most centralized and thorough education system in the world. It's literally a matter of issuing a new textbook.

>No, of course not - but that's why I need specifics.
You got the specifics. If you can't fucking find out a paper on Dobrovský and snowball from them, I can't fucking help you. The guy was the most important slavist in history, he didn't just rebuild Czech, he did the same for Russian. That is why there is the whole Czechism in the Igor thing. And for serebian, and croatian.

Do you not know how to find a fucking paper based on ONE KEYWORD?!

Just open fucking google scholar and copy paste the fucking name in you absolute mongoloid.

I don't know what the FUCK else do you want?

>>713644736
>you just want a hyper realistic rendition of historic down to a T
Incorrect. There is nothing realistic about this kind of language. It's for immersion and escapism, not for realism.

Also, you have to be retarded to complain about dialogue in dark souls. There is very little talking in the game.

>>713652385
>>713651514
now kiss

KCD1 is 4chan
KCD2 is reddit

>>713651697
>Indeed, I like to think I am, and yet you misunderstand me even now.
Have you ever been tested on autism?
It genuinely seems that you do not understand irony. Now, normally I would chalk this up to you trying to be a smartass, but after you repeatedly failed to understand the most basic concept of an analogy earlier...

I think you are autistic. And not in that "Insulting someone on the internet" way. I think you might legitimately have actual development disorder. It would explain a lot actually.

I'm dead serious now. This isn't a bit to insult you. You seem to be high-functioning enough to be able to actually make some good use of this information. It could genuinely make YOUR life easier if you got yourself checked out.

>>713652531
>posts twitter shit while crying about reddit

>>713651790
>by the fact that he DID NOT LEAVE.
Is he in the room with us right now?

>>713652385
>That is how knowledge works: You scream something very loudly and never, ever, ever question whenever you are right or wrong.
Well, that would be the example you give me, but no, when I am confident about knowing something it is with reason.
>You do understand why I cannot treat you as a human being, right?
Yes I do, I understand you have a severe personality disorder that prevents this.
>One language will day out entirely roughly every 14 days.
Wow, that is a fun fact. But I am clearly talking about sustained suppression efforts upon a vital language community.
>And reviving it isn't that hard when you have the most centralized and thorough education system in the world.
Ah, that's what 19th Century Bohemia had?
>If you can't fucking find out a paper on Dobrovský and snowball from them, I can't fucking help you
You seem to fail to understand that the problem is not finding sources on this, it's finding one that agrees with you.

It would read like the Canterbury Tales

>>713652676
I'm not crying about it. I'm just stating facts. I enjoyed both games.

>>713650316
It's a struggle to follow who's who after a while. It helps that one guy keeps calling the other "child" pretty consistently

>>713602521
Even if the timeframe fit you forget that writing back then was still considered a privilege and art form. Nobody would record words as they were spoken with all of it's warts back then, because it would make the writing look crude. They'd always make things sound extra rosy and flowery.

It wasn't really until the printing press and MUCH later the typewriter where things started to be recorded in the same manner they were being said because now texts could be produced at a rapid pace.

>>713652215
>I have found many throwaway references to the "National *Revival*" however. God dammit. You did it again. I just keep falling for this shit, huh
Yeah, you do realize you are just... making noise at this point, right?

And excuse me for doubing your research when in 4 fucking hours, you failed to find a paper on Dobrovský.

But sure, if this helps you sleep better.

Hey, remember that time when you lied about that guy not using the term "genocide" and "ethnic clensing" synonymously?

Remember that time when after being told explicity four different times that national rebirth and czech national rebirths aren't the same thing, you acted like this is completely shocking revelation to you?

Remember the time when you said "I don't know anything about Czech or Czech national revival" and then "What you described was not Czech national revival, because I know more about it than you do!" In the span of two posts?

Yeah... fun discussion this was. Keep on entertaining me.

>>713652797
Actually, there was one instance where quotes verbatim were indeed done and important and that was court records.
Once these allow the vulgate language in whatever area, they follow the natural language closely as they're testimonies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnUJDdZxIQ0

>>713652649
>It genuinely seems that you do not understand irony.
What, you meant to say there is a misunderstanding and I'm not full of shit? Or are you doing what you baselessly and repeatedly accused me of doing, backpedalling when you've been caught?
>after you repeatedly failed to understand the most basic concept of an analogy earlier...
You mean the one you misunderstood. I let it slide before but this is just blatantly rewriting history. I understood your analogy pefectly, I just thought it was a shit analogy because it was modelled on your shit understanding of the situation.
>I'm dead serious now. This isn't a bit to insult you.
Ah, glad to know that the rest was all in jest, then. Pretty good bit, though. You had me worried you were genuinely teaching linguistics somewhere.

>>713652713
Who knows, he did say it was useless to engage with you on account of you being either off your tits or deliberately trolling, but he did return a few times afterwards to call you on your shit.

>>713652729
>Well, that would be the example you give me, but no, when I am confident about knowing something it is with reason.
Once again, I'm just going to leave this hanging out here. It speaks for itself, there is nothing I can add to make my own point better than you just did it.

>I understand you have a severe personality disorder that prevents this.
You just said that are right because you cannot be wrong.
There is a personality disorder problem here, and a development disorder too.

It ain't me.

>But I am clearly talking about sustained suppression efforts upon a vital language community.
So am I. Also, I don't think those words mean what you think they mean.

I'd ask what the FUCK do you think "vital" means in this context but I realized you genuinely haven't answered a SINGLE QUESTION so far, so yeah... not going to waste time on that anymore.

>Ah, that's what 19th Century Bohemia had?
Yes. Funny how many new things you are learning today, ain't it?

>it's finding one that agrees with you.
Lol.
I can't anymore. I know this is low effort but... I have nothing else to say.

>>713653036
>Yeah, you do realize you are just... making noise at this point, right?
Ah, you forgot why that was relevant, then? Seemed so important to you before.
>And excuse me for doubing your research when in 4 fucking hours, you failed to find a paper on Dobrovský.
I did not say that I failed to find a paper on Dobrovsky. I said, I failed to find a paper that agrees with you. You keep creatively reinterpreting things to better suit your version of events.
>Hey, remember that time when you lied about that guy not using the term "genocide" and "ethnic clensing" synonymously?
No.
>Remember that time when after being told explicity four different times that national rebirth and czech national rebirths aren't the same thing, you acted like this is completely shocking revelation to you?
Man, I still have no idea what the fuck you are on about with this, I had to explicitly ASK YOU to clarify what you meant.
>
Remember the time when you said "I don't know anything about Czech or Czech national revival" and then "What you described was not Czech national revival, because I know more about it than you do!" In the span of two posts?
Also no. You seem to remember a lot of things that weren't said

But you did not remember the part where you insisted that the term was very explicitly not "National Revival" in English, that it was "Rebirth", and that "National Revival" was something else entirely and did not apply here?

>>713653730
>You just said that are right because you cannot be wrong.
I very much did not. I said I am educated and reasonably confident in my judgement. I might add to that that you've repeatedly let your mask slip and revealed yourself to be a kook.
>So am I.
Doesn't seem like it.
>I'd ask what the FUCK do you think "vital" means in this context
Large enough to be sustainable.
>Yes.
Yes, I am absolutely unsurprised that you would just say that without any qualification whatsoever, because you've been really selling us on this miraculous revival myth and the legend of Dobrovsky for hours.
>I can't anymore.
What, find a single source to agree with you? Yeah, me neither.

>>713653236
>What, you meant to say there is a misunderstanding and I'm not full of shit?
No, you are absolutely 100% full of shit. However, this would indicate that 1% of that shit is an accident, and only 99% of it is you shitting yourself on purpose.

>You mean the one you misunderstood.
No misunderstanding there.

>Ah, glad to know that the rest was all in jest, then
Jesus.
Like seriously. Again, everything else aside:
You have a congenital mental disorder. It's not severe, you pretty clearly don't need a tardwrangler, but there is something wrong with your brain. Among many other problems, it's preventing you from understanding how language works.

Get tested, please. If not for yourself, do it for your family. It will help them to deal with you better, to unerstand you better.

>>713654206
>No, you are absolutely 100% full of shit. However, this would indicate that 1% of that shit is an accident, and only 99% of it is you shitting yourself on purpose.
This is just complete gibberish at this point. I see you yourself struggled to still make sense of your own words and come out on top somehow.

>Like seriously. Again, everything else aside:
>You have a congenital mental disorder.
lol man, who doesn't get irony now? God damn, and the other kind of irony.

>>713653732
>Ah, you forgot why that was relevant, then?
No, it's just that the sentence didn't make sense.
Literally, it's a pure word salad.

>I did not say that I failed to find a paper on Dobrovsky.
You didn't stop arguing with me,which means you haven't found a paper about anything relevant to this discussion.

>No.
That explains a lot, actually.

>Man, I still have no idea what the fuck you are on about with this
You, not knowing something? Wow!
Seriously, kid. You just summed up the problem for me.

>Yes, I am absolutely unsurprised that you would just say that without any qualification whatsoever
You do not acknowledge those, so why would I waste time on that?
Google austro-hungarian education.
I know you wan't but i want to explose your bullshit.

>>713654673
>No, it's just that the sentence didn't make sense.
So you did forget. That's a poor attempt at saving face.
It's explained in the same post, though, so what, you couldn't be arsed to go back and revise it when you got to that part? Did your brain even register it or does anything that disproves you just fail to penetrate at all?
>That explains a lot, actually.
Yes, it explains that I did not do that.
>Google austro-hungarian education.
You do it. You keep telling me to look for things that aren't there, so how about you show me that it is?

>>713654949
>So you did forget. That's a poor attempt at saving face.
Are you familiar with the concept of mirroring in the context of mental health care?

>>713655049
I'm guessing you have experience?

>>713601768 (OP)
Fags like to mention the historical use of "they" in old English, but refuse to talk about other words. There's a reason it's old. It's in disuse. People will have trouble understanding it.

>>713655095
With the mentally ill? Yes.

You are mirroring right now. Look it up.

>>713655365
It's clear you have experience with *being* mentally ill, so thank you for confirming what I already knew: your entire narcissistic outburst was blatant projection.

>>713655641
>It's clear you have experience with *being* mentally ill, so thank you for confirming what I already knew: your entire narcissistic outburst was blatant projection.
You really need to consider what I told you about getting checked out by a medical professional. Again: you are a burden on every single person in your life. It's extremely unfair to deny them the comfort of knowing what they are dealing with.

>>713655998
See what I mean? You are not the masterful Holmesian figure you desperately pretend to be, ruthlessly dissecting my entire being through text alone. How do I know? Well, I know my life, don't I?
So what are you? You've given a hint. All that stuff about being a burden isn't about me but it's a bit too detailed and specific to come out of nowhere, now, innit

Also if I were unconsciously mirroring you I'd be a way more insufferable prick, calling you out for projection and hypocrisy is not that.

>>713656462
>How do I know? Well, I know my life, don't I?
No, you don't.
Your handler never explained the term "denial" to you?

>>713655998
>>713656462
So, anyway, this is what you're reduced to? When once more asked to back up a single thing you say the response is just "google it till you find something that agrees with me" and then you just drop it in favour of completely vapid derogatory drivel rather than just mostly?

>>713656680
Anon, most people don't actually rely on a handler to explain them things, you know?

Yes, I know I'm recycling jokes at this point

>>713601768 (OP)
>"What are you playing son? Oh it's the jewish faggot game! Don't worry me and your mum accept you as you are!"

>>713656462
>All that stuff about being a burden isn't about me but it's a bit too detailed and specific to come out of nowhere, now, innit
Yeah, it's very specific. Like everything I said here, it comes from education and formal training. You know, the things that are so alien to you.

I used to spend nearly 2 months a year assisting people with disabled members. Mostly your kind, actually.

>>713656689
>So, anyway, this is what you're reduced to?
Very much. between being tired, and you being reduced to mirroring, there isn't much in it for me.

>>713657017
>Like everything I said here, it comes from education and formal training.
Oh, so in other words, you're right because you can't be wrong?
Once again, I am aware of the irony but I could not pass up this opportunity

>>713657283
>Oh, so in other words, you're right because you can't be wrong?
No, usually I'm right because I live very much every second of my life doubting myself. it's a miserable life, but it does force me to continuously study and educate myself. Plus I have a decent memory.

Also, you are mirroring again.

>>713657250
What was in it for you anyway? I mean, it couldn't have been about trying to educate anyone, because it's clear you're rubbish at that and you don't really care. I think you just like hurling abuse at people, desu. Perfect for a teacher, really.

>But in town it was well known when they went home at night their fat psychopathic wives would thrash them within inches of their lives
>OOoOOoohh

>>713657553
>No, usually I'm right because I live very much every second of my life doubting myself.
Anon, if that were honestly true then you would have admitted at least once by now to misunderstanding me.

And no, an explicit and acknowledged callback isn't "mirroring", you desperate pseud hack.

>>713657576
>What was in it for you anyway?
Pain relief. No joke, that is it. Arguing with retards it's an activity that allows me to fully concentrate on something and distracts me from that pain.

For some reason, it works better than anything else - better than any game, book, movie.

I'm saying for some reason, but actually know the reason why, it's a more active process.

>I think you just like hurling abuse at people
No, not really. My use of abuse is only a direct reflection of their behavior. Nothing more.

>>713601768 (OP)
Only faggots still play this game.

>>713636852
Sorry Anon, I kept engaging... but in my defence... I was bored as well

>>713657710
>now to misunderstanding me.
It's my self doubt that forces me to read what you say very carefully, and often re-reading my and your posts over and over that allows me to say this:
I did not misunderstand you.
You were full of shit.

>>713658186
Damn, so you're in chronic pain, suffer from extreme sefl-doubt, and you cope by lashing out at people?
>My use of abuse is only a direct reflection of their behavior.
A reflection? Like a... mirror?
I kid, I kid. Nice attempt to divest yourself from the responsibility of your own actions but no, it's a reflection of who you are. You kept misunderstanding people and getting increasingly frustrated until you began calling for people to be shipped to camps or w/e, my eyes admittedly kinda glanced off the screen when your posts become 90% invective-filled all-caps rants
>>713658351
>It's my self doubt that forces me to read what you say very carefully
Well, congratulations, I declare you fully cured of your crippling self-doubt, because from where I'm standing you repeatedly put your whole foot in your mouth like a complete tool with utterly unwarranted confidence. I guess I can see now you're massively overcompensating but still, whew, no introspection at all

>>713658351
>>713658953
Honestly if this is your "very carefully" then what does your "hastily skimmed" look like? Are you on some heavy duty painkillers by any chance?

>>713658351
And, you know what, the sad part isn't that your self-doubt causes you to read and re-read things very carefully. I can sympathise with that. The sad part is that you still misunderstand things so badly all the time despite it. Your very best is still woefully insufficient. And you can't even comprehend how badly you fucked up. If *only* it was a simple matter of you being careless, because you can easily correct yourself then. But this? There's simply a limit to your ability to make sense of words, I guess?