Thread 713843118

>>713843118 (OP)
>brings up hegel

100% a pseud

>>713843118 (OP)
undeniable pseud. the real question is whether it was intentional or not

he's smart enough to be successful. that's all that matters.

>>713843118 (OP)
Based retard

>>713843118 (OP)
He's cringe but has femboy soldiers which is based

>>713843118 (OP)
based
https://files.catbox.moe/5d9sxf.mp4

>The NCR imitates America, so it’s inevitable it will fall like America did!
>imitates Rome
What did he mean by this?

>>713843118 (OP)
>le hegelian dialecticts
>youtubefags all be like "ermmm hegel didnt actually say that"
>be watching Predictive History (videos of a teacher lecturing about history)
>he brings up hegel
>specifically says the whole thesis antithesis synthesis line
>???? is it fucking hegel or not

>>713843118 (OP)
To be honest he is a pseud but he may have a more legitimate and meritocratic claim to be a ruler than modern real life politicians.
He is a pseud but he had a vision, did what had to be done, and saw it realized even if just for a brief time, his nation had power and prosperity thanks to his ideas.

>>713843118 (OP)
Both. 4chan believes that one flaw ruins a man, but you can make mistakes and still be a good leader.

>>713843238
he's a pseud to the same extent ulysses is, as in he's limited to the amount of intellect josh sawyer has, so about middling intelligence. He's absolutely supposed to be like a tactical historic genius or something which is why everyone follows him.

>>713843118 (OP)
He's meant to be a fraud. He comes across as a pseud.

>>713845245
John Gonzalez wrote Caesar and Chris Avellone wrote Ulysses. By Sawyer’s own admission the only big characters he wrote were Arcade Gannon, Chief Hanlon, and President Kimball.

>>713845627
how do you put 3 people on a job and get the exact same reddit tone from each

>>713844807
he's a based retard

>>713843118 (OP)
Midwit amongst retards

>>713843118 (OP)
moron gigamogged by Graham

>>713845245
Talking about people trying to sound smarter than they really are, there's this faggot.

He tells you himself literally all he did was teach a bunch of backwards tribals how to use their guns and convinced them that killing an entire tribe to scare the rest into surrendering was a smart idea. Then when he had a bunch of people ready to kill for him he went off into the wasteland with them to keep killing and enslaving. Everything you hear of his greatest general is that he won all his battles by running into the enemy and refusing to die and the first time he met an enemy that could counter this brilliant strategy he lost so hard he set the entire Legion back five years.

Literally nothing in the game suggests Caesar got anywhere by being particularly intelligent. He was an average educated man who took advantage of ignorant savages.

>>713845031
"thesis antithesis synthesis" is a very simplified version of a complex concept.
basically hegel didn't intend for this to be applied to the real world. caesar is using a bastardized version of hegelian dialectics from marx and engels who were pushing scientific socialism

>>713843118 (OP)
He’s a very very smart pseud so both
>>713845245
>Graham: This way lies the path to hell. Edw- Caesar needed me to translate. Translation became giving orders.
>Graham: I think only Caesar can lead the Legion. I've never met anyone who could take his place. I couldn't. I never had a mind for logistics.
He is a genius in his own right. Caesar used to lead battles and coordinate logistics. He’s the master of armchair knowledge

It's too bad the game doesn't let you call Caesar "Edward" to his face

>>713845818
>he wasnt supposed to be smart they just wanted to convey how retarded brown natives are and how even a simple white man was able to conquer them and their foes
strangely based and leads me to think that was not what they intentionally wanted to imply. Like how ulysses is supposed to be compelling at all rather than a schizophrenic that rambles at you

>>713845031
even if hegel didn't say whatever, almost nothing named after somebody was actually named by the inventor himself

>>713843118 (OP)
>>713843212
What people tell you is not necessarily what they actually believe.

>>713843118 (OP)
there is literally nothing wrong with being a pseudointellectual
prove me wrong

>>713843118 (OP)
It can be both

>>713844807
thats the joke

>>713845984
>from marx and engels
What Caesar was parroting was Johann Gottlieb Fichte's conception of dialectics, nothing Marxian.
Also, dialectical materialism is far more complex and difficult to understand compared to Hegel's dialectics, don't sell it short.

>>713843118 (OP)
Both

>>713843118 (OP)
Him being a pseud is a pseud meme in itself, which is very Hegelian.

>>713843118 (OP)
he rejected western liberal values because they failed, so instead he's imitating a society that also failed. brilliant. also technology bad unless i get sick or start losing the war, then i love auto-docs and firearms! now that's integrity!

>>713848664
>yet his army of tribals nearly controls 4 states
how does he do it?

>>713848664
>so instead he's imitating a society that also failed
You couldn't even spell out why Rome collapsed.

>>713848180
Spoken like the Alpha Pseud.

>>713843118 (OP)
I don't know. How many states do you own that live under your indisputably patriarchal monarchist rule?

Total pseud. Doesn't even realize how fucking bad the legion has gotten.
>>713848957
The people he conquered were retards with no technology and a very low population density. Also the vast majority of legion territory is only nominal control over completely uninhabitable wasteland. But then that also goes for Nevada.

>>713849307
How droll. I love these threads.

>>713849409
the only only drolling here is you while you're gobbling my knob

>>713843118 (OP)
He is very intelligent but I can't for the life of me figure out why he isn't grooming a successor already.

>>713849535
He is, it’s Lanius

>>713849647
No it's not Lanius. It's the Courier. You are his Augustus. It's so simple. You retards should be banned from playing games if you cannot figure this out.

>>713849043
I'm watching Rome fall again right now outside my window.

>>713849647
There's nothing indicating he's actually preparing Lanius to do what he does. During the events of New Vegas Lanius is just a fearsome commander, nothing more.

>>713848664
>he rejected western liberal values because they failed
not really. Caesar saw how successful the NCR was under Tandi and wanted more of that strong, authoritative leadership. But Tandi herself was liberal compared to NV-era NCR and very squishy feely in her leadership.
Caesar hates the bloat, corruption and lack of direction more than any specific policies

Is his card good?

>>713849535
He doesn't actually care about what happens after he dies. There's an entire quest about him outright breaking one the fundamental tenets that he came up with to try to give the reaper the slip. He probably even knows that, if he were to die prematurely, Lanius would burn the world to the ground and destroy everything, and is fine with that.

>>713843118 (OP)

His voice actor starred in The Boys; he was Dr. Jonah Vogelbaum, the scientist who helped make Homelander.

The moment I heard his voice, I knew it was Caesar.

>>713849535
>real gaius julius assassinated by his sworn brother
>he doesn't leave anything to his other greatest friend, compatriot and lapdog (his lanius)
>posthumously adopts a come-from-behind nobody who goes on to lead the state to greater power and happiness than ever before
he'll adopt the courier posthumously

>>713849809
>It's the Courier. You are his Augustus.
This is a very good interpretation, but what about non-Legion runs?

>>713849925
He was Rawls in the Wire, Rodrigo Borgia in one of the Borgia shows, and I can go on

>>713849946
He's shit out of luck heh

>>713849809
>>713849946
Lanius takes over for Caesar even if the courier is Legion aligned.

>>713849809
Caesar never treats the Courier as anything more than a passerby mercenary. You're minted a coin for helping him, not a position of authority or place inside his domain.

>>713849925
The Boys is woke

>>713849913
Wasn't Tandi dictator for life?

>>713849932
Caesar doesn't really mirror Gaius Iulius apart from their shared name.

>>713843118 (OP)
Keyed.

>>713850104
He spews his whole life story the second time you meet him. He tells you himself that he was born NCR, something he would kill anyone for even suggesting. He could easily convince his Legion that you were raised in secret or sent by Mars himself.

>>713849385
i dont see anyone else doing what he did without a GECK and just an army of tribals. pretty based for pseud

>>713850147
elected dictator with socially liberal policies sans some minor backrooms dealing with Vault City (granted Fo2 is ambiguous with how much she knew about what Bishop and Moore were doing)

>>713849385
>The people he conquered were retards with no technology and a very low population density
So fucking wrong. He has towns like Goodsprings all over.

>>713843118 (OP)
He is the biggest fucking pseud possible, and it is very intentionally designed and written as so. They even call him out for being a pseud in-universe. The king of midwits who got to larp with the tribals, while the likes of Joshua and Lanius were doing the actual heavy lifting. His entire larp got shattered to pieces when it encountered another actor that wasnt an unga-bunga tribal. It doesnt matter how overstreched, corrupt, out of it depth and overreaching NCR is, even if at its weakest, its badly lead, moronic troopers were able to absolutely crush the best of the best of the Legion at the height of their strength.

On top of this, he is a huge hyprocrite with the whole Auto-Doc thing. Just an absolute loser all around. He reminds me to those objectivist young adults rambling on about how they are giants of industry beholden to no society for running a shitty webshop and it turns out their parents bought their car and house and funding their company still in the red.

>>713850208
he could do a lot of things, but he's hostile towards the player throughout the entire legion ending. You're a tool to him, not an heir.
Lanius is more cordial towards a Legion player at the dam than Caesar is.

>>713850147
>>713850156
>Tandi actually mirror Gaius Julius Caesar
>The NCR is the real Rome, not the Legion, but it's without an Octavian

>>713850234
Honest Hearts makes very clear that Joshua could do it again if he wanted to and that he was the driving factor behind their early success, when it was their most critical.

>>713850303
But Goodsprings is tiny...

>>713850416
>the only guy that could talk to tribals was essential to getting the tribal war train started
Makes sense.

>>713850303
He has towns NOW. Didn't back then. He conquered and united tribals. Also their population is still far less than the NCR. That's why their army at 100% effort and while deploying WMDs and blatant terrorism still can't overcome an under supported expeditionary force sent by the NCR, unless a demigod (you) decides to break the tie in their favor.

>>713850416
I wish we knew more about Bill Calhoun, he’s mentioned along with being one of the founders along with Josh and Eddie, but he’s barely brought up. As far as things are concerned he’s still in good with Caesar.

>>713850303
>a very low population density
>he has towns like Goodsprings all over.

>>713850360
>he's hostile towards the player throughout the entire legion ending
When? How? Unless you fucked up Legion prior to meeting him, his reactions vary. He even gives you multiple chances if you do fuck up his orders, once again something he wouldn't let slide were it anyone else.
>>713850473
Yes, I was talking more about towns being full of "normal" non-legion

>>713850495
Not just the communication either. Joshua suggests he has a blindspot for grand strategy, but in terms of tactical warfare he is exceptional. Plus, he is just a terrifying person, who could command the fear and respect of superstitious tribals. There is a reason that he was still whispered about 5 years after his execution.

>>713850156
yea i'm just taking the piss, i recall basedyer talking about how in van buren the idea was caesar would literally be caesar point for point, but in new vegas he's intentionally just a guy that models some of his actions after stuff that worked
that being said though, he definitely does copy certain big things like the policy of open forgiveness to exceptional cases which are otherwise entirely out of character for someone so typically brutal, so the idea that down the line he does decide to copy the posthumous adoption of octavius doesn't seem insane hypothetically

>>713850127

Yeah but he was good in his role and still sounds like Caesar.

>>713843118 (OP)
I'm killing him with a holy hand grenade. Mars? Meet Jesus!

>>713850372
NCR is indeed Rome, that you got correct, but a much much later Rome.
The NCR-Legion war and Sallow's plans pretty much exactly mirror the Turkic conquest of the Roman empire and the subsequent merge of the imperial administration with a nomadic people.

>>713850881
based constantinius killing the empire again

>Still arguing about NCR or Legion after 15 years
Troon Vegas, kino of the highest order.

>>713843118 (OP)
Truth is he was just doomed to repeat history.

>>713850973
Almost like it’s a good story with a lot of shit going on. How about you go cry about your dogshit while crymasking spamming kino and based for hours.

>>713850970
The Turks didn't really LARP as Romans until actually taking over Rome and didn't preserve their institutions at all like Ed plans to though. Also they still exist stably after almost 1000 years, whereas the Legion is pretty much guaranteed to collapse after Ed.

>>713849946
Then he sits on his lonely throne, thinking about his last successor he turned into jerky.

>>713848664
>technology bad unless i get sick
do you think this is some kind of own that you are pointing out his hypocrisy?

>>713851105
...
Obviously the Turks didn't larps as Romans just like Sallow's Legion is not larping as the NCR.
And the Turks were not stable at all during that time period. They were disorganized and fighting between themselves. Then there's that Timur guy.

>>713850605
no dude. Joshua said Bill was a good guy. Caesar said he exiled Bill because Bill didn’t put up with his shit. Bill is not in the kahoots with Kaisaarrrrr

>>713851247
>Obviously the Turks didn't larps as Romans
They actually started doing so after taking over Constantinople
Also, I think a better analogy than either of ours would be to compare the Legion to Attila's Huns (who disappeared after Attila) and the NCR to the Late Roman Empire.

>>713851075
Dont know what you are talking about, I'm RALPHIE-pilled.
>RALPHIE, fly far! Fly fast!

>Edward becomes figurehead, center of cult of personality
>Joshua becomes force commander, able to communicate with filthy savages
>Bill does ???

>>713851351
i'm comparing it to republic rome during the punic wars and caesar is hannibal

>>713851247
They absolutely did, having the Sultanate of Rum centuries before they even got Constantinople, and then they saw themselves as the natural successors of the empire.

>>713851150
Yes. It is.

>>713851421
Caesar said he sent Calhoun back to the Followers in LA

>>713851421
Bill was the messenger
>Instead of being killed for protesting his colleague's campaign of violence against the tribes, Caesar let Calhoun live, but sent him back to the Followers to inform them of the events, and warn them not to interfere in the expansion of his new empire.

>>713851421
Bill was kicked out. But, Caesar always had respect for the Followers because he used to be one of them

>>713851351
Yes, they did. I'm just trying to simplify this to that retard I'm replying to without typing a wall of text.
You could make many example for what Ed is doing, because there's a shitload of precedent in our own history, which is why I chuckle every time someone says his plan makes no sense (which is often on /vee/)
There's the Lombards establishing their own state in Italy after being nomadic. There's the Visigoths establishing their state in Spain, the guys whose name I'm forgetting conquering Gaul and creating Frankia, etc.

>>713851468
Not an argument.

>>713851645
>>713851719
>Joshua originally hangs out with pussy Bill
>eventually hangs out with pussy Daniel
like pottery, it rhymes

>>713851759
Indeed its not an argument, it is a fact.

>>713852021
Yes, you only missed the timeframe by about 500 years, trying to elucidate me about a factoid I already know just because I wanted to explain something to a retard that replied to me.
Congratu-fucking-lations.

>>713851759
>I chuckle every time someone says his plan makes no sense (which is often on /vee/)
i remember somebody telling me to watch a breadtube video where the guy went on for minutes about how societies founded on slavery are fundamentally unsustainable and won't last more than a few years, as if rome itself didn't last for at least 2100 years being a slave economy, let alone all the other kingdoms/empires that relied heavily on slavery, and serfdom isn't effectively just slavery by a different name
nigga just open a history book

>>713852150
>Congratu-fucking-lations.
NTA but boy have I got a site recommendation for you...

>>713852234
Is it a traditional forum? Because I sure miss them.
Yes I know you mean reddit you gorilla nigger.

>>713843118 (OP)
>man who knows some basic philosophy is philosopher king in post-apocalyptic southwest
wow, I wonder if that's the point? nah, the writers were probably just really impressed with basic Hegel stuff

>If you think it's worthwhile to make smart people learn how to talk like backward savages, you're a Follower of the Apocalypse... or an idiot.
Very based. My way is the best and foreigners should do things my way, stay far away from me and mine, or die.

>game allows you to choose between liberal democracy, anarchism, libertarianism and fascism
Unthinkable today.

>>713852332
The bar for a philosopher-king is not that high. For example, none of Marcus Aurelius's ideas had any original merit, yet he is seen as an exemplar philosopher-king regardless.

>>713843118 (OP)
Do you think Todd ever played NV to experience what a true role-playing game is like?

>>713852547
todd's an unironic brainlet so i doubt he'd see any value in its style of world building even if he did play it

>>713852547
no, because new vegas isn't a true RPG

>>713843118 (OP)
Complete retard

>>713844464
LMAO

>>713852547
>Actual Fact
Of course, he did. Todd is the only reason why FNV exists. He wanted to give FO3 more content and wanted to originally contract another studio to make an expansion pack for FO3. But, he decided to just lobby for a full game and contracted Obsidian because Obsidian used to do a lot of contract work and there’s a lot of classic fallout devs in Obsidian.
>my piece of shit opinion
After so much fan talk about how good FNV is and how Bethesda Fallout is shit, Todd and Emil hate FNV and want to destroy it

>>713843118 (OP)
100% a pseud. The Legion somehow manage to be bigger faggots than the NCR.

>>713844807
The USA fell because they were retards that somehow managed to run out of oil and uranium, while some people theories that one of the contributers to the fall of Rome was rising firewood/charcoal prices. In both cases, energy resources were wasted on the military.

>>713853460
The North American continent having tons of natural resources to the point that they don't really need to bother with the old world is bad goy wrong think.

>>713853460
>while some people theories that one of the contributers to the fall of Rome was rising firewood/charcoal prices
This sounds very retarded

>>713853724
there are retarded theories for everything
like dinosaurs going extinct because their braps caused global warming

>imitating a society that also failed
wow, just like the NCR, Mr. House, Yes Man, the Khans, The Kings, The Followers, The Brotherhood of Steel, Goodsprings...

>>713853460
um, sweaty, the usa fell because a bunch of aliens were seething about the greatness of the usa and started a nuclear holocaust
meanwhile, rome fell because they allowed all of their state resources to be collated under the catholic church which was a non-taxable entity, meaning the state's capability to pay armies, provide welfare, etc. were severely hampered and eventually just entirely nonviable
basically the usa did nothing wrong and is still the greatest nation on earth frank horrigan could body thousands of aliens with his bare hands

>>713843118 (OP)
It's the farthest right-wing as possible character written by a leftist trying to give the benefit of the doubt.

>>713844464
>I applied dialectics to assess the situation
Why is this the funniest part

Go Independent
Ride the Kali Yuga

>>713850542
The average NCR soldier will usually beat the average Legionary of equivalent rank. However, without the Courier's intervention, the Legion would win the second battle of Hoover Dam because Lanius is sending his best men to ambush much lower-level NCR troopers and General Oliver is a retard.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn8dXdeeQHE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSTnG0Rodzo

>>713854137
It's not the dam they have to worry about, Vulpes campaign in the southeastern Mojave is already on the doorstep of the NCR

>>713853843
>the Khans
Colombia is doing fine. It certainly hasn't failed.

>>713850147
No, she was an elected president, but the NCR doesn't have term limits, so she was able to keep being elected until she died just by being competent. If she did something retarded, then she would have lost the next elections, like in one of Fallout 2's bad endings.

>>713854137
mostly melee focused npcs get kinda assfucked in vanilla fo3/fnv every melee ambush on enemies with guns the melees get wiped, but tbf sprinting should've been a base mechanic and when npcs can sprint the melee guys get a much fairer chance
generally from what i've seen sprinting is the difference between a fiend/legion ambush on ncr getting 0 kills, to almost killing the whole squad

>>713854342
It's not that threatening. Where would Vulpes even attack? The closest major settlement is the Boneyard, and an attack there would be nothing like the Mojave which is just an unpopular campaign for the NCR, it would send the Republic into actual fight-or-flight mode, and they'd tear apart the Legion.

Is Caesar not understanding Rome the point? Because he's in the post apocalypse or some shit.

>>713852446
>Why are people talking in regional dialects 200 years after the USA was shattered by WW3?

>>713843118 (OP)
Caesar is a pseud who stumbled upon a good idea. Lanius is the real deal.

>>713854584
It's more about the damage they can do to the NCR economy with their gorilla warfare tactics targeting caravans. They could potentially cut off the entirety of the eastern Mojave from outside caravans. Given enough time with this attrition they could push further east in the southern Mojave, potentially attacking Primm in the process for instance.

>>713853724
You need wood to build things, cook food, and so on. You need charcoal to make metal objects, such as tools, armour, and weapons. It was a minor factor, but still a factor.

>>713851150
hypocrisy bad

Bseud

>>713854910
and caesar is a bad man

What matters more: If you are ideologically correct or if you can make a stable state? I don't think the legion is particularly stable. It probably wouldn't last past Ceasar's death even if he had heirs.

>>713854342
>Burns and crucifies a remote town full of cowards that isn't under the NCR's juristiction and literally nobody cares about
Yeah, he's definitely going to scare the NCR into surrendering.
Bringing up the spy in Camp McCarran would be a better argument.

>>713849535
I always had the impression that he didn't consider like his legion had truly started yet, not until he defeated the NCR. So I think the idea is that he didn't consider an heir because he's not in a possition where there's a point yet, if he died the legion is pretty much over. But if he conquered and sort of merged with the NCR in his synthesis, then his society would formally begin and I think all the brutal conquering and slaving would mellow down a bit, which I have the impression is more of a means to an end as he transforms from a marauding warband to an legitimate empire. Then he could have a son and such, he's no that old. I think he's meant to be in his 50's.

>>713844807
Rome was a unique and eternal model, it was a symbol. U.S.A was an amalgamation of precedented ideas

>>713854521
>Don't look at what the game shows you! What about muh mod!
It still sucks because a retard with a service rifle and two weeks of training will still beat a skilled soldier running at him with a lawnmower blade. The Mojave isn't Vietnam.

>>713849920
>There's an entire quest about him outright breaking one the fundamental tenets that he came up with to try to give the reaper the slip
people when the brutal dictator doesnt apply all the tenets of his philosophy equally

>>713855306
Good theory.

>>713854767
Caravans weren't even using that route. Literally nobody gives a damn about that town, especially since it was filled with cowards and wasn't under anyone's juristiction. Caravans have guards.

>>713855382
ok but in the game, a melee player is objectively stronger than a ranged player barring explosives fat man, so there has to be some point at which you consider game mechanics vs lore, and in lore there's no reason npcs shouldn't be able to sprint
like in lore you can climb ladders, but bethesda can't program ladders, does that mean a mod that adds ladder climbing isn't a more fair representation of lore

>>713855306
Caesar says that his long-term plan is to make a modern(ish) military dictatorship that protects its people and the power of its emperor. That's as far as his synthesis goes.

>>713855634
Machetes suck, especially without a min-maxed Courier. A skilled soldier with a machete running at a retard with a service rifle and two weeks of training is still going to get gunned down.
Benny shooting Maria at the Courier twice isn't enough to kill them by the in-game stats.

>>713855159
>Bringing up the spy in Camp McCarran would be a better argument.
All of that was of Vulpes design, tho. He's likely to have people in the NCR already, working their way into positions of power.

>>713855912
>a democracy rotting out from the inside due to the political class being infiltrated by invaders who remain loyal to their own people
that could never happen

>>713855912
Pure speculation. I can just as easily specilate that the NCR's core territories have much better counterintelligence than the Mojave.

Pseud. All of the game's retardation is brewed out of how Caesar is written. There wasn't anything to be gained from the Legion being designed to larp Rome so hard, it just makes them a massive meme, makes all of their characters seem like massive retards, and somehow manages to suspend belief more than Deathclaws and Super mutants do.

The Legion should have been styled out of Native American cultures, the much more obvious train of thought being "Western Civilization and that failed, so lets give this thing that died in it's cradle a try instead". Particularly since those cultures were adapted to thrive in the harsh american interior in the first place. If you think Western Culture was fucked why the hell would going back to the roots of almost all western culture would change anything? When half the the game is references to "Cowboys vs Indians", why the fuck would you make the Indians "Roman" when the much simpler and more thematically correct option is staring you directly in the face and is infinitely easier to explain and far less aesthetically stupid?

>>713855907
skilled players have armor bypass on melee attacks, npcs not having perks is an engine-level limitation, basedyer actually talked about this how they looked in to it and the only way an npc could get a perk is via the player having a perk and that perk being a script that effects specific npcs (used for companions)
in this context would the lore not make more sense if highly skilled melee npcs had armor bypass on melee? just from a purely hypothetical standpoint, bethesda's engines aren't good representations of their own lore due to how heavily they're programmed around player exceptionalism

>>713856116
If Israel declared war on the USA, the AIPAC fags would all be shot.

>>713851815
>>Joshua originally hangs out with pussy Bill
it's not as if Graham was a follower. He met Edward and Bill while doing missionary work and traveled with them

>>713853460
>The USA fell because they were retards that somehow managed to run out of oil and uranium
the US was THE LAST country to fall and only did so because it was nuked by China.

>>713856467
They were about to win too. Goddamn red chinamen

>>713855528
They do, how do you think the ones you can see on Highway 95 get there?

>>713844807
Rome fell when it went from a republic to an empire
America was doing great as a republic. Now it's failing to become an empire.

Kaisar wants to create the republic of roke and combine it with the Republic of America. He doesn't want to recreate the empire

>>713856467
Exactly. The US seized the last reserves of Uranium in the Pacific and told the UN to blow it when they were asked to share.
China niggerly invaded Alaska, and when they lost, they decided to nuke the US

Based but also a dumbass
He's basically just another alexander the great

>>713856245
>The Legion should have been styled out of Native American cultures, the much more obvious train of thought being "Western Civilization and that failed
the issue is that the natives weren't unified. ever. or civilized for that matter.
Caesar wanted to unite the southwest under his facsimile of Rome The Man Who Would Be King style and carve out a civilization from that.

>>713856245
>t. fake post-apoc fan
your idea sounds gay and retarded. thank god you’re not in the vidya industry. they stuck with the Legion because tribals were already explored in FO2. also, the Legion was in Van Buren and New Vegas was based off Van Buren.
also, the Legion aesthetic is based off mad max dudes

>>713856697
>200 years as a monarchy
>500 years as a republic
>1400 years as an empire
>the empire is the key part of its failure

>>713856290
Ignoring the fact that Jsawyer is a massive faggot, the perk needs 70 melee, which only the higher-ranked Legionaries have. Also, the Fallout series is built around exceptional individials occasionally appearing and affecting entire regions, so player exceptionalism makes perfect sense. Even then, machetes still suck compared to guns.

>>713856245
>The Legion should have been styled out of Native American cultures

>>713846109
then why discard someone as useful as joshua if he was that smart

>>713856245
The Legion is already tribals wearing a roman trenchcoat.

>>713856615
Those aren't related to the NCR, or else they would be stuck in the outpost with the others. The deathclaws and the ants only showed up shortly before the start of the game. Nipton was basically reliant on off-duty troopers sneaking off to get laid, not trade like Primm is.

>>713856850
idk what the main balancer being a fag or not has to do on the stance of balancing which is heavily effected by how incredibly broken the engine is meaning any vanilla observations are largely irrelevant to what was intended
regardless i'm obviously not saying machetes are good, just that complete wipes of fiends/legionairres when they ambush ncr patrols isn't what the lore says (you'll at least agree on this, npcs regularly talk about these ambushes being a problem) and when you just change npcs being able to sprint the game does become much closer to the lore with the fights becoming much more even, even with ncr still winning typically

>>713856467
Reprocessing, breeder reactors, synthetic hydrocarbons, etc. all existed in the world of Fallout long before the energy crisis hit. They were just retards that went to war instead of building infrastructure.

>>713857195
>all those scientific advancements
>and they still went to war...
>war... war never changes

>>713857195
sounds like a skill issue for non american countries.

>>713856743
That's utterly meaningless because Rome never unified any sort of environment that was anything like Western America, nor is that really relevant because it was just about providing a cultural identity to unify around. The Legion is not civilized in any meaningful metric. They have no culture or traditions aside from "Follow the biggest stick" who at the moment happens to be Caesar. None of them actually care about Rome because it's not relevant to their lives the way being unified by Caesar is. As such the Legion could be literally anything. Edwart just picked Rome for really stupid reasons that sabotage his whole goal.


>>713856923
Way to prove my point that civilizations vs savages is a major theme so making the conflict Old America vs Rome is just dumb.

>>713856938
he felt he had to make an example out of him, or else the bloodthirsty war tribe he raised up would look down upon their leader for granting grant mercy for his collossal fuck-up that killed a lot of legionaries

>>713857142
Ambushes are a problem because the spy in Camp McCarran is feeding intel to the Legion so that the Fiends (which have energy weapons) can mine where the patrols are passing, not because of machetes being any good. The high-ranked Legionaries aren't being wasted on harassing patrols.

>>713856938
Because Joshua is a fucking retard and lost the battle horribly. Hanlon calls Graham a retard. Joshua calls himself a retard. Also, even the most skilled commanders get punished in the Legion. Remember the Silus quest?

>>713857416
>Designs his whole society after an absolute farce of what it means to be "Rome"
>Now has to kill anyone who might tell his army about the most well documented and extensively researched civilization that ever existed.

Whoops.

I pity the asshurt trying-to-fit-in /v/ermin who will never know the comfiness of the Mojave

>>713857819
This has been a very comfy thread so far and no one has even called New Vegas a tranny game yet, what are you on?

>>713857416
a central aspect of the game is how the NCR (a civilization), the Legion (a civilization) and Mr. House (trying to rebuild a civilization) will deal with all these outlying tribes and independent towns.
Unless you're going Independent, the player's choice is about whose boots will by stomping on the throats of the Mojave citizens. That's the imperialism message the game has. The NCR Legion conflict is largely a different message.

>>713849647
The Furry? like hell. he wiped out a useless town like nipton, for what purpose? to spook the NCR? really? and what in the world was that lottery? dude was more playing with his food more than anything. thats not exactly Augustus material

>>713857962
>the Legion (a civilization)
lol. lmao.

>>713857261
Anon, those technologies were from the 1950s, 1940s, and earlier. It's realistic (just look at real life), but war definitely wasn't inevitable.

>>713858116
Lanius is the masked guy you speech check into retreating at the end of the game, that is Vulpes Inculta.

>>713844807
He needed an alien culture but familiar enough to have at least a blueprint of it. Rome is the best example on that, most modern western nations take pride in Rome's legacy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tf5qwoCE6eY

>>713857819
I only enjoyed the story, radio, faction system, and the amount of weapons/overhauled perk system which makes every playthrough feel fresh. But, I’d be lying to myself if I said I preferred the New Vegas map over FO3/FO4

>>713857456
and in-game that's never represented because the ncr always completely mogs any ambush, which is my point, they completely mog the legion ambushes in the south, they completely mog the fiend ambushes at mccarran (half of which are typically using pool cues, they're not all using laser rifles)
the mechanics just don't match up with the lore we're presented for numerous reasons
another reason is that due to all functions of all scripts always being evaluated every frame unless they're fed a break, the amount of npcs has to be heavily reduced to avoid running out of memory or dropping to 2fps, meaning fiends/legionairres which are supposed to outnumber and overwhelm the ncr never actually get to do this

>>713858118
The Legion:
>effected by the Fight The Power perk
>not effected by the Sneering Imperialist perk

>>713849917
Not really. It's alright for termpo but it cannot actually turn the tide if you're in the backfoot.

>>713858116
He's be subtley pushing into the southeastern Mojave. He's also responsible for the destruction of Searchlight.

It feels like many people talking about NV pretend that there's a Legion route when there's actually just a few shitty quests for them.

>>713849917
does he wear a skirt so his dicksucking slaves have easy access? weird flex but i get it, in such a schizo hyper-masculine society

>>713844464
I don't remember this in the game

>>713857975
>Years of insect taming - wasted
That part always gets me.

>>713857085
The lore with the outpost and whether they let caravans through is inconsistent, plus if you kill the ants which a lot of people do apparently (you get a good early game service rifle and a couple caravan lunches out of it so it's certainly worth it) they start letting caravans through again, so by the time you get to Nipton or just after you discover it the caravans will be moving through the area again and if you continue on the road that connects to highway 95 you'll meet a scripted encounter with caravan getting ambushed by Caesars legion

Fallout 4 should've been here.

>>713858581
Have you ever heard of show vs tell? The Fallout games do show that vast resources and technology were wasted on excessive militarism. They even had miniature fusion reactors for electric cars. The game also shows that the Legion would win the second battle of Hoover Dam without the Courier's intervention.
The Fiends at Camp McCarran do use energy weapons. The NCR usually beats those because Camp McCarran is a major base of operations.
The Mojave is sparsely populated even in real life, let alone 200 years after population and infrastructure were largely destroyed by WW3.

>>713858245
>>713858738

ohhhhh
my bad.
yh i can see that. when told that it'd be pyrrhic victory by the courier if he took the west (Very similar to how NCR became after burning all their manpower on helios one) he retreats to fight another day with the entire legion at his disposal. Caesar wouldnt given him the joshua treatment for not following through with taking the dam though

>>713858779
I think people find it impressive because to be fair… FNV is kinda the first FPS “RPG” with a faction system tied into the main story instead of being side shit like Oblivion/Morrowind

>>713859237
it depends how furious caesar would be for retreating while NCR's army in the region potentially grows

>>713859193
bro i don't even know what your point is any more, you were originally saying that mechanics are a reliable interpretation of the lore, i laid out clearly why they aren't, and now you're saying well of course they aren't
i don't see any point in replying any more since you don't seem to have a coherent point of view

>>713859430
average online discussion

>>713852547
Yes, says a lot that the writers and devs of NV like Todd but internet rimjobbers hate him

>>713859105
Fuck no. Let Bethesda keep ruining the East Coast. West Coast should stay pure.

>>713859430
thanks for not falling for the moving goalposts, anon. you spared this thread a lot of incoherent schizo spam, and i appreciate it.

>>713859430
No, you're just making copes to claim that what the game shows you isn't canon. I'm showing how what the game shows you (such as miniature fusion reactors and excessive militarism) is more accurate to the lore than what the game tells you.

>>713859527
Who’s going to tell him about the TV show

>>713859593
Never watched it, never will.

>>713859540
I'm not moving the goalposts, retard.

>>713859593
I was wondering why there was Fallout discussion again. When is the second season coming out?

>>713859527
Todd already nuked the West Coast, sux bro

>>713859629
based
>>713859702
idk and idc
>>713859739
:(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_kc1PspBxY&list=RD5_kc1PspBxY&start_radio=1

i liked the enclave's appearance in the game. small, but still left a succinct impression. shame todd hates the enclave though

>>713859629
>>713859787
Even if Jewthesda allows a real developer to make a Fallout game it will have to respect the Amazon slop. So yes, sadly it does matter.

>>713859636
(just accept his concession)

*nukes you*

>>713859886
>So yes, sadly it does matter.
To (You), yes. To me, no. Enjoy your pigfeed if you eat it

>>713843118 (OP)
I always kill him and fight my way out. out of all my NV playthroughs I've never actually beaten the game even when I sided with the boomers

>>713860078
>never beaten the game
I just like fucking around

>>713859978
[NCR] [Speech 90] Bear bear bull bear bull

>>713859927
What?
The NCR generally beating ambushes makes sense because service rifles are decent weapons even in the hands of the average trooper.
The Legion winning at Hoover Dam makes sense because Lanius is competent and is sending his best men.
The Mojave not having many NPCs makes sense because it's sparsely-populated, especially 200 years after WW3.
And so on.

>>713844464
Ave, true to Caesar.

>>713859978
You mean nukes the Long 15.

>>713860208
now accept MY concession, and you two continue the argument, if you'd like

>I tossed ceasers salad with a .50 BMG and ran for the door
>I'm casey kasem

>>713860304
What?

>>713860452
have you not prescribed me an identity, from my replies in the reply chain? i am clearly someone different from whoever these two anons were arguing about..
you didn't assume i was someone else, did you?

dude why didnt Lanius just solo the unstoppable killing machine player and his army of NCR/robots? he just let the angel of death courier who just won the battle decisively talk him into retreating? thats stoopid dood

>>713853059
Yes that’s totally why they nuked the west in the show and have been adding in some of the most destructive and needlessly petty retcons.

>>713860496
stop being a faggot

>>713860707
ok

>>713860747
how come nobody likes my Casey kasem joke? are people retarded 3rd worlders, or, just zoomers?

>>713860594
its very specific on how they decided to make it take place in the West then fuck everything up…. instead of just sticking to the East Coast like they usually do and do their own retarded thing

>>713860892
uhm.. if you're asking me.. i just didn't get it

>>713860940
so your just ignorant. makes sense

>>713859521
Everybody likes working with Bethesda since there's barely any standards they push you to achieve or compete with other games. It's all a mediocre day job.

>>713859521
do you think Todd hides his lucky charms around the office for developoors to find?

>>713861238
todd loves whimsical adventure, of course he did

>>713861295
his gun weighs more than him

>>713861295
I love that midget but he needs to leave bathesda and microcock

>>713859886
Fallout as a respectable game series is fucking dead m8. It's all goyslop from now on and the next fallout game, if there is one, is going to make 4 look like a masterpiece. It will be entirely made by outsourced indians, it's going to vomit and shit on the mutilated and raped corpse of the lore. It's going to be the lootiest, shootiest, most brain dead piece of crap ever produced with the same fucking plot about vaults, BoS, and missing relatives.
Like dead money says, it's time to let fucking go.

>>713861664
>let go
i already did that a while ago. i never played F76 and I never watched the show. I like how even when shady sands is nuked, FNV fans just pretend the show doesn’t exist as God intended

>Are the New Canaanites really a tribe?

>We wear more clothing than them and understand more about technology, but we're still a tribe, a linked family of families.
>The Boneyard, Phoenix, New Vegas, they're just places, metal and stone. New Canaan dies, but the tribe lives on.
>When the walls come tumbling down, when you lose everything you have, you always have family. And your family always has tribe.

whenever I don't play new vegas for a while, I start having dreams about new vegas.
a major recurring aspect is that a HUGE portion of the game's map -- roughly everything in-between The Strip and Repconn HQ has been flattened and filled with the Sierra Madre's cloud (never played Dust btw). In the middle of the clouded region, maybe roughly where the Fire Ant Nest is is a bunker where I assume you can shut off the cloud's source. I always wake up before I can reach the bunker.

>>713861664
All that I’m expecting from Fallout is the Mutant Rising mod for Fallout 2 and it dosen’t seem like it will have the quality of Sonora or Nevada
I don’t think there’s any upcoming big mod for New Vegas since New California and The Frontier turned out the way they did

>>713844807
Rome is eternal you barbarian rat

>>713860902
Not to mention how specific so many of the retcons are.

>>713843118 (OP)
Extreme pseud and a faggot whose regime is built off bullshit.

>>713856841
Pls list the start and end of the empire thx

>>713843118 (OP)
Based idea pseud execution.

>>713843118 (OP)
>So you're the mailman who has been slaughtering my men by the dozen, foiling all of of carefully laid plans, and even killed Vulpes Inculta because you wanted his hat
>But it's ok, I forgive you. Even though a total lack of mercy is one of central aspects on which my Legion is built. I even burned my best friend alive for an honest fuck up.
>Now go into the mysterious bunker below my camp filled with old world technology for me
>No, I'm not going to send anyone with you. Why would I to that? I trust you, buddy!
He's retarded.

>>713844464
Wonder how he would react to seeing a Little Ceasars.

>>713845031
it is, those gaming youtubers are hacks

>>713843212
Hegel not only proves GOD but also tautology itself. Every zoomer you hear say "it is what it is" is effectively worshiping Hegel even if they don't know it.

Philosophy of Right has my favorite quote ever:
>Freedom wills freedom.
Hegel *proves* that man has the ability to choose. Nihilists & jews permanently btfo which is why you have treu pseud fags like yourself claim he le sucks since animals, slaves and children cannot think about thinking which means they are forever stuck as NPCs. Most posters on here won't know what the fuck I'm talking about but will attempt to pass judgement despite this.

>>713843118 (OP)
pseud
The whole legion was half-ass, devs were too big of leftists to write a far-right faction with any kind of complex moral ambiguity or subtlety. Could have been cool and explored the advantages/disadvantages of a strict ruthless survival-of-the-fittest type philosophy in the post-apocalypse but entirely wasted and just exist to be generic villains.
Even Walking Dead did a better job, not that I consider that peak writing either.

>>713871384
yeah, they could’ve done it better. but, for a underdeveloped faction with cut content, I think they did it alright. the story tells you that legion territory is known to be one of the safest places in the wasteland to the point where even caravans don’t need guards. caravans even trade with them because they have safe roads and people only pay in tribute compared to the heavy taxes of the NCR.
however, all of this was only achievable due to how brutal the legion is.
but, if you ever played the classic fallout games, brutality and slavery has always been heavily looked down upon from fo1 to fo2. so, of course, they’re seen as evil

>>713856245
>There wasn't anything to be gained from the Legion being designed to larp Rome so hard
Dude, almost all European countries have competed since the collapse of Rome to see who could larp as Rome better.
Obviously the hardcore Roman larp is cartoonish but that's part of fallout. And in a strange way it makes sense that tribes of people with no real identity would go all out in larping as Romans as opposed to real life history.

>>713843118 (OP)
...so that's the brillant Dynamic storytelling lore Fallout New Reddit™ has to offer..?

My main problem with the Legion is that they feel artificially successful. Literally everything goes their way in the game to the point where it just feels like unnatural narrative contrivance. Every member is hyper-competent. They never fumble, never make mistakes, and random chance never goes against them. There's no internal friction despite that being true of every large organization since the dawn of mankind. I think it's mainly because they're pulling double duty as the designated "bad guys" of the game in addition to trying to present as a legitimate faction choice. The good guy NCR has to feel helpless and the Legion unbeatable without the hero's intervention, but it just makes the Legion feel like cardboard cutout stand-ins for a truly fleshed out faction with believable people running it.

>>713870978
except that hes referencing ficht, not hegel

>>713843918
unironically this

>>713847503
Dialectic materialism is wrong
conceptually
and applicably
it has never been used in a way to make a good conclusion
its also in contradiction to human behavior, the proof: being a succesful normal middle class person
everyone besides narcissists who would latch onto it does not fit a mold where material dialectic would be real
especially since humanity is mortal and most people are not delusional about their mortality in a way that would make dialectic materialism plausible
ergo all good philosophers throughout history being polytheists, monotheists, hermeticists/alchemists or mysticists/gnostics of some kind.